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Hi Greg. I posted a question in March that I guess was a little confusing. I asked about Annubis being in line at the Gathering. Since he was presented as the Grim Reaper (essentially) and the only being to represent a "taker of souls" in the Gargoyles universe, I found it a little odd that he be taken from his duties to attend The Gathering. Since the Amir returned control to Annubis, I assume he did not take his place. The Gathering seemed to have an indeterminate length of time (Puck seemed way too concerned for just a hiatus), so the world would be without death. Who takes care of the duties of death while he is at The Gathering.
I don't want to go any furthur, because there will be an idea imbedded in the question.
I apologize for calling Nought a "dube", I was a typo I didn't pick up on until mid-May. I intended to say "dude".
Where Anubis is has little to do with how he functions. He doesn't have to be present at every deathbed.
Why I didn't like Odin's portrayal so much and Odin in general.
First of all, Odin was supposed to be the wisest of the gods, who sacrificed his very eye for wisdom and had to hang from a tree nine days dead, really dead, gone-to-Helheim-dead to gain even more wisdom of rune-making knowledge. He also interacted with humans frequently in the myths, and not always as a god-to-lesser-beings attitude. Odin in Gargoyles seemed kinda..dumb. His comment to Goliath about not being used to dealing with mortals seemed out-of-character. The mythological Odin seemed the type of person to try more subtle methods to gain the Eye. And also:
1) Where were Odin's ravens at the time?
2) Why has Sleipnir so few legs? He should have eight.
3) Where's Odin's magic spear Gungnir?
Well, know one said that he'd been interacting with humans recently. He seemed somewhat hermetic to me.
1. In Miami.
2. I've answered this before. I know he should have had eight. He had eight in the script. The real reason he didn't in the show was because it was felt that the animators couldn't handle it and it would look horrible. The in-Universe reason is that Sleipnir is also a shape-shifter and can have as many legs as he wants to at any given time. He was in a four leg mood right then.
3. In Barbados.
(Sorry, Odin didn't please you. But I don't think our interpretations are mutually exclusive. I certainly don't disagree with yours, nor do I find it inconsistent with ours. I certainly don't think he was dumb. Just rusty. In any case, he achieved his ends.)
Norse myth again:
Hope this doesn't count as an idea but..this is just a comment I want to make because it seems that ths is commonly forgotten by most people who want to do stories about the Norse gods and just concentrate on the 'heroic Aesir/Vanir' or 'malicious Loki/Frost Giants', and seem to forget about other major figures who just don't talk much like Hel.
So my comment is:
Fenrir can talk. There's a precedent. In the story about him and Tyr, it is said he cheerfully agrees to being bound with chains, which may or may not mean he can talk. But when the gods bring him the magic ribbon Glaupnir, he is suspicious and challenges them, and states that as a test of good faith, someone must put his hand in Fenrir's mouth. So Fenrir _can_ talk.
Uh, who said he couldn't?
1) Jormungandr was the Midgard/World Serpent, the monstrous brother of Fenrir and Hel, and like them, another bastard child of Loki and the Frost-Giantess Angrboda(anguish boding). Odin cast him into the sea not long after he was born, but there he grew to immense proportions until he encircled the entire world(which the Norse thought shaped like a disc with a huge ocean circling the sides), and had to hold his tail in his mouth. Jormungandr was also(this is from memory, may be wrong) the arch-monster-enemy(the way Fenrir is Odin's) of Thor, due to an event that occured before Ragnarok; Thor used Mjolnir as a fishing hook while fishing in a boat and caught Jormy, bashed him on the head with the hammer once or twice, but the Serpent got away, being the earliest recorded story of the Big One..
2) Jormungandr was huge, serpentine, extremely formidable in the water, and equipped with poisonous breath/bite.
3) Until Ragnarok, Jormungandr cannot heave his immense body unto the land. At Ragnarok, when the stars start falling from the sky and the huge earthquakes start, the land heaves and manages to lift Jormungandr onto the shore. He will then slither all his way to Vigrid, the battlefield. At Vigrid, his breath will poison the air, being responsible for the death of many. Thor will engage him in a long long battle, and not too long after Odin gets eaten, finally slay Jormungand. Thor will then walk nine steps away, and fall down dead, too heavily injured in the battle to survive. So it'll appear Jormungandr would be dead..but if Odin can survive Ragnarok, why can't Jorm?
2) How many tricksters do you need? Loki's got other aspects besides tricktser-he's also a fire-god and shapeshifter of great power and skill.
And an actual question:
3) How did Odin survive Ragnarok?
Next Norse myth thing in seperate post, unsure if that counts as seperate topic.
1. Was that a question? I'm familiar with the Midgard Serpent from my D'Aulaire's NORSE GODS & GIANTS book. (One of my favorite books ever.) I figure, he's mostly dead. But I'll admit, my thoughts on Ragnarok in the Garg Universe are fairly sketchy. I have a few concrete ideas, but I don't have all the choreography nailed down.
2. Loki's cool. But he gets used A LOT. I'm not ruling him out -- and certainly not in flashback -- but I don't feel a pressing need to include him in the present. But you never know...
3. Not telling now.
Do the Weird Sisters feel anything like affection or responsibility towards Demona and Macbeth? In 'City of Stone' they did seem to feel these thing ("We've written their story. They are our children") but in the following episode we just saw them use Demona and Macbeth for their own purposes...
The Sisters have many aspects. At least one cares.
This comes with some delay but better late than never... Concerning Morrigan (to give credit where due) Todd had already guessed that in the Gargoyles Universe she may have been Banshee... I had my doubts, in part because I hadn't guessed that the 'love' part in their love/hate relationship went back to their earlier life...
Anyway... So, the Morrigan of legends is an amalgation of Banshee and the Weird sisters... interesting and ofcourse quite fitting. (I also wonder if the idea of the Weird Sisters in love with anyone could ever pass S&P - it would seem a bit like a group orgy or something... :-)
I was intrigued (and quite pleased) when I found out that you had further plans for Banshee as Molly - the episode had left me rather unsatisfied, Rory transforming into Cuchullain and attacking/killing the Banshee as if Molly had meant nothing to him... it felt kind of a letdown (especially since I quite liked Molly while the Banshee seemed two-dimensional). So I'm glad this is not the end of their relationship, even though I agree with you that it would be difficult to near-impossible to focus a whole series on the two of them.
Hmm... here are a couple of questions. Does Rory know that the Banshee is still out there or does he think that he has killed her? And that 'transformation' into Cuchullain... would you have it happen again, or even on a regular base? (I rather disliked the transformation - I didn't much like Cuchullain's form...) And how does Rory feel now about Molly/Banshee/Crom Cruach?
Thanks btw, for the compliment on my usage of English... However the specific post concerning the Morrigan was in great part a copy-and-paste job from a mythological website... :-)
I think to the extent that Rory is only just starting to remember his past life, he probably realizes taht Cuchullain has "killed" her before and will probably have to "kill" her again. He doesn't expect Molly to reenter his life though. That should come as a surprise.
Some transformation will be part of the equation. But I too wasn't satisfied with what we had. For starters, it seemed to much like Marvel's Thor to me. And I wasn't wild about the Cuchullain model either. It was servicable, and we were on deadline. But I'd like to come up with something stronger. Something that mixes Rory and Cuchullain more. Something that better integrates the Spear of Light. I have some ideas about it, if I ever get the chance to revisit.
As for Rory's current feelings, I think he largely felt betrayed by Molly. Felt she had been using him, felt she never had any real feelings for him. I think she thinks that he's right about that. But "going undercover" as Banshee did gets complicated. Nothing's as cut and dry as either of them think.
Just why does the sound of iron harm fae? It isn't as if iron radiates 'iron waves' like uranium and radioactivity..
Does Mab share the resistance to iron that Oberon possesses?
Did any fae ever travel to space at any period in history? Are they even capable of doing so?
Not yet. At least not that I know of.
I'm pretty sure this question was lost in the queue, and I've searched it twice, so I'll ask it again:
Did any magical faelike beings evolve on other planets, or is the whole magic-incubation thing limited to Earth?
How would powdered iron dust affect a fae if you sprinkle some on one? What would it do-poison, scorch, bring on a rash, make them itch...
Maybe all of the above. Maybe something worse.
I'm not certain as to whether this question has been asked here or not (it certainly hasn't been answered yet), but - do the fay have any sort of afterlife as humans and gargoyles do, or do they just stop existing when they die?
BEN SAYS: bbnmm,. lkpooyyy
GREG SAYS: Anything's possible.
And I love Benny.
Apologies for misspellings!
dose to does and such.
This all has to do with Fey and history.
Howmany generations of Fey have their been?
Have the fey ever been primitive? As in the way humans were sevral millenia ago?
1. I've never counted.
2. Not in that way exactly. Not like their were cave-fey.
Stupid pointless Titania questions that got deleted this time:
Does she wear shoes? (Yes I know, Oberon wears enough for both of them and then some)
Has she always worn what she does and some variation, or pregathering did she wear something less--revealing?
Is there a point to her wearing so little?
1. When she feels like it.
2. Her wardrobe is as extensive as her imagination. But she favors the outfit you saw.
3. She's got it. She flaunts it.
Here's some stupid questions with no point that also got deleted, they all have to do with Oberon's looks and fashion sence, which in a sence is the same thing for a fey:
Why does Oberon wear those thigh high boots?
Why does Oberon have a broken nose? There are a few theroies going round about this one, which I can't post for fear of getting this deleted.
Is it just mean or is he, Oberon, wearing shorts?
an' I think that's it
1. He thinks he looks good in them. Also they're comfortable.
2. He doesn't.
3. He's not wearing shorts.
Did Ragnarok occur before Oberon overthrew Mab, or after, or during the Oberon-Mab war?
Not telling right now.
Which of the Death-gods has the greatest connection to Death? You have implied earlier that some have less and more than other Death-gods, like Banshee compared to Anubis..
Tough to top Anubis. But I don't pretend to have thought out every pantheon's death god at this point. Gotta leave some stuff for when the stories are written.
1) You said earlier that Oberon has siblings; how many?
2) Of what gender are they?
3) Do Titania or Puck have siblings?
1. Did I say that?
2. What are my choices?
3. Both of them or either?
Alright, in Hunters Moon, my personal favorite episode, Demona almost unleashed a magical disease that would have killed all sentience. Gargoyles would be immune to it's effects thanks to the Praying Gargoyle.
Now we all know Goliath smashed the statue and saved the world. But what if this was not the case...
1. All humans would have died. Macbeth is obviously human. Would this not have qualified as death at Demona's hands, thus killing Demona (oops)?
2. If not, would she fall prey to it when she turned into human form? How would this work?
3. Would this spread to Avalon and/or the isle of the New Olympians?
4. How would it affect... Oberon's Children?
5. ...New Olympians?
6. ...Gargoyle clones?
7. Any other effects?
Thanks for your time. Love your rambles, by the way, look forward to next season's rambles.
More hypothetical questions... YAY!
1. I've answered this many times before. Try looking through the Demona or Macbeth archives. Briefly, it would depend on Demona's intent.
2. I'm sure she thought she was safe.
3. No reason why it wouldn't spread to New Olympus. No reason why it would spread to Avalon.
4. Potentially not at all.
5. Kill most of them probably.
6. Not at all.
7. Anyone who asks hypothetical questions based on untread pathes would die. :)
Did Morgana or Nimue attend the Gathering?
The one in Dallas or one of the ones in New York?
Were the fae around during the time of the dinosaurs?
How did Odin get around Oberon's non-intervention law when he kidnapped Elisa?
He felt the Eye rightly belonged to him. The mortals were interfering with HIS property.
Nope..still not done yet..
Ok, I put this in a separate post _just_ in case.
1) Could you tell us what the episode, "Ransom" would have been like if you had had more control over it?
I put this in a separate post cuz..as you may notice you have answered this one from me before. I admit that. Its just that when you did it was awful vague. I was just wondering if right now you could tell us something more besides, "It was pretty much the same plot except the kidnappers were from Avalon." Ok they were from Avalon?
2) Would we have seen these characters in any episodes after Ransom?
We never saw Puck in TGC. But im SURE Alex getting kidnapped would have warrented a Puck episode;)
3) Would Puck have been the first one to know and not his parents?
Everyone got together trying to figure out how to go about getting Alex back
4) In the ep you had planned, would it have been more of a Puck/Lex teamup?
5) Where would've the mystery characters from Avalon taken our lil prince?
U know..Q's like that?
1. Is that quotation an actual quotation or a paraphrase? I can't imagine that's what I wrote. It certainly was never going to be the same plot. It was a Tricksters story. Initially it was to include Owen/Puck, Raven, Anansi and Coyote. Plus Lex and the Family Xanatos. I think as time has gone on, I would have dropped Anansi and Coyote from this one. Focused more on Raven as the Trickster/Villain. Saved the multi-Trickster episode for another story.
2. In that season or ever?
3. Uh, I don't pretend to have every little detail worked out. I never actually wrote the story, I simply proposed it. They took a kernel of it and turned it into Ransom.
5. Don't know.
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves
Writer: Lydia C. Marano
Arguably the best single episode of the series. The animation is fluid, dynamic and very strong. The writing is sharp, even quite funny over and over. And yet, dramatically the story is still potent. It really advances the Goliath & Elisa romance arc. Changes Demona permanently. And introduces Puck -- and by extension, the entire third race: The Children of Oberon. All in a mere 22 minutes.
It's also very gratifying for me. A bit of a vindication. As you may have seen from the memos I wrote to Brynne & Lydia, there was some considerable resistance to the notion that none of the characters would notice their own personal change from one species to another. Most of my collaborators thought the idea was way too complicated to pull off. I argued that it might seem complex, but in fact it would play cleaner on screen -- and funnier and more directly to theme. In my mind, another title for this episode could have been -- had we already not been using it for our Werefox episode -- "Eye of the Beholder", because all the transformed characters really noticed was when someone else was "OTHER". Being a monster or being "normal" was based on their point of view, not any objective look in the mirror. [As it is, the title is the kind I like. Simple, objective and yet metaphoric. At one point, it was titled: "Mirror, Mirror". But we simplified it even more.]
But anyway, when the human Brooklyn, Lex and Broadway are confronted by "Gargoyles", the scene is an intentional mirror of the scene from AWAKENING, PART ONE where Brooklyn says, "If they think we're beasts and monsters..." Again, this is playing with the idea of "beasts and monsters" being merely in the eye of the beholder. The species have reversed, but the situation is exactly the same simply because the Trio remain in the minority. I suppose that's one thing that X-Men's mutants have in common with the Gargs. Both are a metaphor for being part of a minority. Feared almost automatically.
On the other hand, when Elisa is transformed, she believes that Goliath & Co. have been transformed into something like her. I think her immediate reaction is very telling about how she ALREADY felt about Goliath at that point. She's thrilled. She throws her arms about him. Now they're the same species. There's no impediment to their love. What's interesting is that if you stopped and asked Elisa under normal circumstances whether she would wish for Goliath to be transformed into a human, the answer would most certainly be "No." She knows that being a Gargoyle is fundamental to who he is. You can't change that without changing him -- and yet in that instant, in that unguarded moment, her desire to be with him overwhelms that rational knowledge. She's just happy.
At the museum, Elisa looks at herself in the mirror. She then moves, but the reflection holds. That was the idea of one of our board artists. A little clue that the mirror is magic. (It's not an animation error.)
Family Reactions #1
During that museum chase, my wife wanted to know why no alarms were going off. I figure Demona or the thieves just shut them off.
Erin didn't realize that that was Elisa dressed as a security guard at first. We were trying to withhold that information for a bit.
"Titania's Mirror", "The Children of Oberon", "Oberon sent me." We were laying groundwork to expand the entire series' base. But I don't know if back then I knew that much about what if anything I had planned specifically for Titania & Oberon.
Anymore than I knew then what I'd do with the "Dracula's Daughter" reference. But we try not to waste anything.
Coming up with that "Children of Oberon" name was a struggle. And so many people have asked me since whether or not Oberon is literally everyone's father, I almost regret landing on that choice. Our thought process is largely present in the episode when Goliath et al, go through various noms: Fair Folk, Dark Elves, Changelings, Shape-Shifters. Of course, at the time we were misusing the term Changeling. I think that was Odo's influence frankly, but I should have known better. I suggested "The Oberati". But the Reaves didn't care for that. I think they thought it sounded too much like an Italian sports car.
I do love the moment when Brooklyn cites Shakespeare's play as a sort of reference work on the Children. I hope we sent a few people to the library with that line. Did we?
I also love Hudson's line in response to Elisa's question: Are they real?
Hudson: "As real as I am, if the stories be true." It's full of delicious dramatic irony. If you can suspend belief on a bunch of gargoyles, then this shouldn't be a problem for you. I love things that work on multiple levels.
I also love Hudson's "Be careful what you wish for" line.
We were trying to show a bit here how Demona had managed to operate in the modern world up to this point. One of the thieves has clearly worked for Demona before without ever having laid eyes on her. Of course, showing Demona's M.O. here, was like giving it a swan song. Because after this episode, though she clearly doesn't realize it yet, her life is going to get MUCH easier. Being a human during the day is a great boon to all her scheming. I'm very curious about everyone's reaction to that? Shock? Amusement? I also tried to work very hard so that in that last two minutes of epilogue, everyone would get that she only was human during the day. I was very afraid that the audience would think she was permanently transformed into a human. Was anyone confused? Or was anyone surprised that Puck's revenge/gift STUCK? We wouldn't really explore the change until HIGH NOON. Had you forgotten about it by then?
Family Reactions #2
As Demona's casting the spell that will summon Puck. (Which I always thought was very cool, with the feather and all.)
Benny: "That's a magic mirror. Is Demona going in there?"
Erin: "Puck's gonna come out."
As I've mentioned before, during the writing of this story we figured out that Owen was Puck. So to play fair we dropped a hint here. Demona (who knows) says to Puck: "You serve the human. You can serve me." Puck changes the subject, replying "Humans [note the plural] have a sense of humor, you have none." This was done intentionally to distract the audience away from the hint we had just dropped. But obviously, in hindsight, it's a clear reference to Owen serving Xanatos. Anyone get it right off the bat? Anyone even take note of the line the first time? Originally, the line read, "You serve him, now you can serve me." With the "him" referring to Xanatos. But our S&P executive was afraid the "him" could be taken to mean Satan. I know that seems silly now. But keep in mind, we were very paranoid back then about the show being attacked for promoting devil worship. So we made the change.
Sensitive Broadway: "Maybe even love." It's a nice moment. Wistful.
Puck reminds Demona that the mirror isn't "Aladdin's lamp". At the time, the Aladdin series was still in production at Disney. So that's a bit of an in-joke.
And how about that: Demona is still carrying a torch for Goliath. On some level, she wants him more than almost anything. Yet she continually allows her hatred to get in the way. And the irony is, that at this point, pre-Vows it isn't yet too late for them. But her actions further serve to cement the Goliath/Elisa relationship. More now than ever before.
Puck/Brent Spiner is just fantastic. I love that "charming personality" line. And "You don't know what you're asking, believe me." And "I'll do EXACTLY as you asked." And "My mistake." And "A very long nap." He's just so rich.
Plus the boarding and animation on Puck is just great. As is the sound work that accompanies him zipping around.
I always wanted Puck to be the one character who could break the fourth wall and talk directly to the audience. Every time he appeared, we'd put a line or two in the script that was addressed to the audience. And every time, Frank or Dennis Woodyard would cut it out of the board. They didn't like breaking the fourth wall. (A lot of guys don't. I tried to do that with Max on Max Steel, but Richard Raynis and Jeff Kline wouldn't allow that either.) Oh, well....
Puck also establishes that Oberon's Children generally use rhyming spells instead of Latin or Hebrew or whatever. (Thus making life slightly -- but ONLY slightly -- easier on me and the writers.) But Puck isn't too formal: "Human's love a battle hearty, so does Puck, come on, let's Party!" Fun. (And I like Brooklyn's line, "Party's over." too.)
Family Reactions #3
When Elisa's transformed into a gargoyle.
Erin: "She looks cute." [I very much agree. Though I always wonder where her red jacket goes.]
Ben then asked why she was transformed.
Beth explained that Demona didn't want Elisa to be human anymore.
Erin then corrects my wife and explains that Puck is tricking Demona.
KIDS GET IT! Adults need to pay closer attention!
Goliath suddenly has lust in his heart:
G: "I never realized when you were human just how beautiful you were."
E (with a smile): "You mean you thought I was ugly?"
G: "Uh... careful! Updraft!!"
Man, that guy is smooth.
Anyway, that's one of my all-time favorite exchanges. I think it reveals so much. Somewhere underneath, Goliath has been attracted to who Elisa IS deep-down -- at least since AWAKENING, PART THREE. But he never thought of her as a potential love interest. He wasn't brought up liberally enough to think that way. After all, she has no wings, no tail. And those human shaped feet!
But suddenly, she's revealed as a FEMALE. Now, even when she goes back to being human, his perspective is permanently altered. Hers, however, is not. She's already consciously had those thoughts. Consciously rejected them. So at the end of the episode, he wants to discuss these (for him) new feelings -- but she does not. And the sun helps shut him up.
G: "That's not what I meant."
E: "But that's the way it is."
Another of my all-time favorite exchanges. (I'm really partial to things involving the G/E relationship. I know, I know, I'm a romantic sap.]
I also like the ongoing confusion. Elisa: "Everyone in Manhattan has been turned into... HUMANS!" Goliath: "No, no, no, no, no." And when the Gargoyles are changed into humans, Brooklyn is so sure that they've always been humans, it's funny. Like that moment in CITY OF STONE, when he's convinced that the "statue of Elisa" is a bad likeness of her: "They got the nose wrong."
FYI, there was an honest attempt, within the logical parameters of what our gargs looked like, to make their human versions resemble the actors who played them. Thus Goliath has darker skin than the others, because Keith David is African-American. (Though otherwise Goliath really looks like Conan to me.) The bald Lex has brown hair and the bald Broadway has blond like Thom Adcox and Bill Fagerbakke respectively. Brooklyn resembles Jeff Bennett but with Brooklyn's white hair instead of Jeff's blond. And Hudson looks like Ed Asner with a beard. More or less. Thom Adcox is the one who most looked like the human version of his character.
Cool little touches:
Demona nudges an unconscious Puck with her tail.
She continues to call Hudson, "Old Soldier". Her tenth century "name" for him.
Her line about the "gift of being a gargoyle". I love that superior attitude.
Lexington's "Fun, but weird" line.
Hudson wrapping the sheet over the mirror.
Elisa and Demona have a brief "cat-fight" as Gargoyles. Not quite as diverting as the one they'll have as humans in High Noon. But it was nice to put them on equal physical footing for a change. Let them have it out.
Demona mentions that Puck isn't too tired to make himself "invisible to the crowd". This was us trying to plug a hole in our story. We felt it would undercut the mob's reactions to our newly human heroes if they had the same reaction to seeing Puck. And yet Puck clearly looks more human than Gargoyle. More "other". So we slid that line in to avoid the whole problem.
FAMILY REACTION #4
Beth laughed at Hudson's very Scots reading of "No doubt about it." Which is pronounced more like: "No doot aboot it."
More sappy stuff (which I love):
Goliath's line: "I'll always be there to catch you."
Elisa completely forgetting her fear of flying in order to save the MAN she loves.
That brief moment when both Elisa and Goliath are humans at the same time.
Hudson's wistful line about seeing the sun, just once.
Although it had little to do with the metaphor, we couldn't really resist the notion of showing Bronx transformed into a dog. We picked the biggest dog we could think of, a Wolfhound type, though a bulldog might have been more reminiscent.
In the script, Demona smashes the mirror upon seeing her human reflection in the glass. But somehow the scene never got animated. So we added the sound of the mirror being smashed to the exterior shot at the end. This was important in order to give the story full closure. The initial point of the episode was to prevent Demona from getting Titania's Mirror. Structurally, therefore, I couldn't allow her to keep it.
But no fear, later we introduced Oberon's Mirror (clearly part of a matching set) in THE GATHERING, PART ONE.
I wonder what all those Manhattanites thought when suddenly they realized they were all barefoot.
If each fae has a certain connection to some aspect through their magic, like Anubis to Death, do:
1) Do Halflings also have such a connection?
2) Is it possible for a fae to change their connection?
3) What is Oberon's particular connection?
1. That's less likely.
2. Why would they want to?
3. Power. The ruling class.
4. The same. But also Chaos.
5. He's a Trickster. It's its own category.
6. See Oberon.