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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending December 1, 2003

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........................Twenty minutes till this room clears. I can't wait. All the typos and misspelled words are driving me insane. In defence, it seems that everytime Brook X posts, it's from a different IP add.(don't know if that helps anyone's argument)

Vin

castle0909
Sunday, November 30, 2003 11:42:05 PM
IP: 152.163.252.100

WWWWWWEEEEEELLLLLL Ms. Siren or what ever. I'm sorry you feel that way but I think that's a load of crap... But to protect my personality I must change my id their four act like Brooklyn off the show and so what if I like acting like Brook, he's cool to gargoyle lovers and I can't forget about Demona, thats my fav. Is that clear enough for you I will not let a soul know what I'm really like to protect my RL id for personal reasons because I'm a newbie after all thats why, and I don't like giveing out my life info to people I don't even know tho' it's not bad at all , ok. Now I'm sorry so, please don't take all this the wrong way. Geeze dose eneybody protect their id here or what... Ow and Ms. Siren watch the bad words like the B word because its much worse than the damn word. Allot of kids come on this site and see that crap. And damn is nothing big so it dose not even count. But yea I'm nice when nice people talk to me like Battle Beast and that's not you missy... So you think I have not bin hacked well than why dose my ADA-WERE
AND SPYBOT programs say I was than hacked by a Mid-level security threat on unknown IP/id's and net information. Than my firewall had a temp-hole in it from the net so somebody broke into my computer so I fixed it and now my computer's fine but not my reputation so their. Need eneymore???

Why are people so mean to the newbies? It's a conspiracy I tell you and It's not me! Joking...

(Forgive me, sorry to everybody else)

Brook has spoken... and you had better believe it!


Brooklyn X
Hot, Blazing in CA, USA
Sunday, November 30, 2003 11:26:17 PM
IP: 199.174.0.98

I'm a little late in getting to this, but after reading through this page I just also wanted to ask Tood to please not resign. Considering you only missed this one question in all the work you have done with the questions list, I would call that a dang fine job.

Yeah, it stinks that the whole question had to be deleted, but those are the limitations of the system. Yeah, it stinks that all kinds of crappy questions get through, but Todd doesn't have any authority over deleting those crappy questions.

Todd has put in a lot of work and he has done a great job considering the restrictions he is under. Considering his only mistake is not catching only one single question when it was first posted, he should be thanked for all the filtering work he has been able to do, not stoned for one mistake.
William C. Maune - [Meteo@ToonZone.net]
Columbia, MO, United States
Sunday, November 30, 2003 09:58:34 PM
IP: 12.216.228.40

Breaking news... Roy Disney resigns from Disney.

In the immortal words of Ron Weasley, "Can we panic NOW?!?"
Patrick - [<-- Roy Disney resigns]
Sunday, November 30, 2003 08:54:32 PM
IP: 65.43.152.72

About the Ultima X game, I have yet to buy any game like that, but this one sounds excellent! Is it simply online, or is there a separate computer program you have to buy with it, also would I have to buy the first one in order to get Ultima X to work?
Forgive the inexperienced gamer with her questions.

Astellus - [nightwonder@hotmail.com]
Sunday, November 30, 2003 01:55:35 PM
IP: 64.228.128.83

Siryn>I emailed ya and welcome about about game. It looks awesome. Unfortunatly, (so far) the gargoyles can't actually glide or fly. But they have a higher jump attack. Their description is also cool. They don't have hair, but they do have horns. And you can design your characters and clothing anyway you like. So I am sure I shall see some gargs looking exactly or least close to Gargoyles characters. Hehehe

Brooklyn X> Perhaps someone hacked you due to the fact of your not so nice personality. Save the act thing for role play. When we talk here, it's our RL personalities talking. We may use code names, but it's Crystal talking, not Siren. If it were Siren, she'd be a hell of a lot more bitchy then I am now. And I think the only conspiracy is within yourself. Perhaps you are just pretending someone hacked you just so you can point fingers and make a big scene to get attention. Geez, get a hobby.

Siren
Sunday, November 30, 2003 11:43:01 AM
IP: 172.160.69.35

Siren>Wwwwwooooo hold it, please slow down my taxi's on hold.... You must have me mistaken for somebody else Ms.Angela. But I did see 3 other people with the same nickname. I only know Battle Beast here. So why did you even mention this? Hay if it's about my bad ass Brooklyn adature than sue me. I just like acting like Brooklyn in the gargoyles universe, that's all but under this I'm a nice guy, that Brook things only an act. Geeze...

I have not bin in a chat room in 3 days. So did I miss something & besides I have a job so I'm working for the hole night so I only have time for 1 or 2 minutes in this comment room to talk & to see what's up in the gargoyle universe. It's all in random hours & all I have time for. But I never seen you tho'' I only really know Battle Beast so It's not me girl.

To All>
I was never that bad to you all in here was I? & besides it's all an act, you all know that right...

1st I was hacked & now I'm being accused of bulling. What is this people a conspiracy on me. Why?

Maybe I need 2 vacations...

Brook has spoken... (& I'll be back)The saying from Terminator 2.

Ow & good day to you all!

Brooklyn X
Hot, Blazing in CA, USA
Sunday, November 30, 2003 11:36:12 AM
IP: 199.174.0.249

Siren> Hey you! Where have you beeeeeeeeeeen. Email me and I'll send you a christmas card!! :D Cool info about the game!! btw. :D

Brooklyn X> Let me _clarify_ (yes, you are beginning to try even *my* patience at this point) In _THIS_ commentroom, nobody can post using your IP. They're assigned, and stay assigned. The only way someone can post in THIS COMMENTROOM with YOUR IP is to post from your computer directly, comprende?

OBVIOUSLY, yes people can find your computer IP & hack into your computer. A lot of people like hacking for some unknown reason..and usually the worst ones are newbie hackers just 'playing around' and trying to learn stuff. (Like making someone's disk drive pop out, download harmless things into other people's computers etc)

Now maybe it was *my* mistake, but I thought you were talking about someone here using your IP. Which if was found to be the case, it's a bannable offense. Yes, BANNABLE. That's why everyone's assigned a unique IP to begin with, because we had too many people on roaming IPs in the past who would cause a lot of fans grief, and everytime they got banned, they'd just come back using a different roaming IP.

Also, just to point out..it's extremely insulting and basically newbie crap, to start laughing and making fun of someone who's trying to help you. So watch it k?

Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:41:52 AM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Brooklyn X>Arrogance does not make friends. I find you a bit pompous, especially being that you have no idea what you are dealing with. People who have been in the fan base and in this comment room since the show's and website's birth. Number One Newbie Mistake: Being unkind to others and trying to knock people down a few pegs just so they can get attention. Your nothing more then a bully...and you're not very good at that either.
Siren
Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:07:02 AM
IP: 172.160.69.35

What is up with this?

I would like to know who the last poster was too, under Battle Beasts post??? For the love of gargoyles!

Hello can I make a collect call to NOWHERE! Joking!

Battle Beast> Ok, When I woke up in the morning & looked at this post... I said. Wha... what in the hells going on here? Why is their a Freaking post Here in MY Name below Battle Beasts Pose Millennium Nickname Crisis Post?!

I think it was my friend, but I don't know? What is going on seriously... & you know a pizza sounds good about now too. & this also says I'm Brooklyn X because I can spell. & to top that off yellow's not my color or stile. Thanks Battle Beast! & that post was real funny too that you put up, you would be a really good Brooklyn actor in a acting class for a movie or something.

I'm not mad that this happened or biased right now or eneything, I just would like to know who's doing this!? & I just had to use that biased word, it's so weard or something. I'll see if eneybody in my house did this so you know that I'll find out.

The real Brook has spoken...

Brooklyn X
Hot, Blazing in CA, USA
Sunday, November 30, 2003 09:43:43 AM
IP: 199.174.0.132

I've been watching the drama unfold all week and thought it was time for me to put in my $0.02

Todd> Please don't quit. Ask Greg is a huge undertaking, but well appreciated. Despite the newbie questions and such it is an important part of the fandom and it would be missed. If you were to quit, who else would do it?

The fallout from this shows that there must be something wrong with the current Ask Greg format and there have been several offers to help update the system, is anyone considering them? After all, they're only trying to help.

I would hate for all this to create a major rift among the fans (though I can understand why Lynati and co. were pissed).

Chameleongirl
Sunday, November 30, 2003 07:28:24 AM
IP: 203.221.144.80

Who was that last poster???

For one thing, they can't spell (The other Brooklyn X could). 2, I don't think they are "Brooklyn X," and 3, I'm not "Battle Biased" or what ever. I'm not mad or biased at or towards anyone! The only things I'm biased about are like how much I hate it when the Pizza man is late and how great I think Gargoyles is. Sheeeeesh!

(Forgive me. I should never have made the comment about my old nick name. Sorry all.)

KEITH DAVID> I also heard him narrate a show about France's underwater caves today (as well as JLA). It was on out Outdoor Life Network.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaSunday, November 30, 2003 03:21:15 AM
IP: 142.59.145.149

Siryn>!Cauphing! Sorry my Siryn friend but evey IP's now can be changed no matter what. My cozen tought me when I questioned him. He's a big shot computer manigar for a computer compiny in texas so... he says eveythings possible on a computer. Well thats why I would beleave a man in a computer compiny for 20 years more than you because than why is somebody able to use my IP & name to tell my frends hurtful things & trying to deatroy me. I call tham up to tell tham so now everythings cool. But don't take this in a affrncive way Ok. Do you know eneything about computers or what?

Battle Biast>Yea, thanks pal jokeing is good but can be missunderstood, no hard feelings. So by the way has eneything like this ever happen to you since you've bin here for years? I know what power people can have on a computer so...


Well see ya...

Brook has spoken...

Brooklyn X
Hot, CA, USA
Sunday, November 30, 2003 02:04:14 AM
IP: 199.174.0.123

A friend of mine recently brought a new game coming out to my attention. If anyone here liked the online RP games like Star Wars Galaxy and Everquest, Ultima Online is bringing out a new and seperate branch of game, seperate from Ultima Online, called Ultima X.
In Ultima Online, you are only allowed to be a human with any number of careers and traits.
In Ultima X, you will be able to be a human, Elf, Orc, Pixie, Phoda(have no clue what that is), and get this...A GARGOYLE.
Also, as in Star Wars Galaxies, no one can have the same exact name or names like Goliath2.

It will be released in early 2004. And there will be a small monthly fee to play (probably around $12 like the rest of them)

And with the creatures, such as gargoyles. You can start clans in different cities and forests. You can also buy and build homes, including castles. And the like. I played Ultima for about 2 years and loved it, but RL got in the way, I had to stop. But I plan to start up again with Ultima X. Just thought I'd let the garg fan base know about it. It may not be DISNEY'S Gargoyles, but it still ought to be fun

Siren - [Click my name!]
Saturday, November 29, 2003 08:27:42 PM
IP: 172.159.145.133

Brook X> I'm just kidding withc you. :P It means Iam sticking my tongue out at you jokingly. No biggie. I'm not mad or anything. :)

KEITH DAVID> He did a guest voice on "Justice League" today. He played someone named "Destro" or something like that. I don't follow the show (only seen it a couple of times) so I don't know who or what this person is. But he did kick the crap out the Green Lantern. Several Green Lanterns.

Also, thsi "Justice League" show has used several of our beloved "Gargoyles" stars and guest stars, such as:

Keith David
Clancy Brown
Michael Dorn
John Rhys-Davies (The Journey)

and more. As well, they seem to like using "Star Trekers" (like Gargs):

Bob Picardo
Michael Dorn
Rene Auberjonois (Sp?)
Kurtwood Smith (Yah, it was only a guest spot, I know)
David Ogden Stiers (Guest Spot)

And MAybe more.

That is all I Will say.


Battle Beast
CanadaSaturday, November 29, 2003 04:40:27 PM
IP: 142.59.145.149

Brook X> Just to clear up a few things...

1. Because you have said so yourself you are a newbie, be careful about what you say and jumping to bizzare conclusions. I know you want to participate, and asking questions is all well and good, but no one likes being yelled at, especially when you honestly appear to not know anything in the slightest of what you are talking about.

AKA talking to people like they are inferior to you isn't going to make a good impression. It's a major mistake a lot of newbies make. <:) So please feel free to ask questions, just try not to insult everyone when you ask them.

2. No one can change and 'play with' their IPS in the comment room. This used to be the case, but now everyone is assigned a number IP.

3. Asking multiple questions in a row also is kinda frowned upon. I know it's usually about 2 posts per day in TGS. :) Try to not post more than twice in a row. (I know it happens on occasion you have to, because I've done it accidently myself)

4. The only lex wyvern I know is female, and she has been busy with RL things, so really no longer is majorly active in the fandom. It happens, it's sad, but it happens.

5. Thanksgiving is in November. It's november..~_^ Check your calendar luv.

6. 'Newbie crap' I'm assuming your refering to ask greg, although your current behavior in this forum is considered standard 'newbieness'. Anyways, the 'newbie crap' people are referring to are the basic questions asking "Why did the show end?" "Will gargoyles come back on the air?" Etc. Typical questions Greg has answered a million and a half times already. :) (especially questions you can read the FAQ and easily find the answers to) People aren't classifying _all_ newbies in it, it's just a term.

Again, you're jumpign to wild conclusions without first asking what's going on.

Being a 'newbie' (or considered one at least)
1. New to the fandom (not always a bad thing)
2. Being disrespectful to other fans, especially the 'oldbies' people who have been here forever (why AM i still ehre btw? O.o;;)
3. Acting in an immature manner.
4. Posting a million times with insane questions & spamming all over the place
5. Generally harrassing people and being disrespectful.

That's mainly at least what I think the definition of newbieness is.

7. Respect must ALWAYS be earned. Behave yourself, and people will be more than welcome to welcome you. ^_^ Just be yourself and don't be abnoxious and you'll fit right in.

8. People are currently discussing todd because of the following:
Todd (as moderator of ask greg) deleted a post that lynati posted thus making lynati and other people upset concerning the post's deletion. Now Todd is upset and said he is going to resign. That's the gist of things.

Todd> I think you're overacting luv. I know how hard running major fandom things can be. -_-;; (trust me..anytime I 'fix' or 'tweak' AMGC, MGC, or Avmists I usually get one person giving me their input on 'WHY THIS SUCKS'. Like Kathy said, this will blow over. If you have your reasons..you have your reasons..but you shouldn't quit over a think like this ya know? :)

wee..back to clearning the house..then maybe more portfolio work before work. -_-;;

Siryn - [<--MGC]
Saturday, November 29, 2003 12:26:28 PM
IP: 24.213.130.186

& to all people out their... Dose eneybody ever get tired of talking about Todd or picking on him? Thats all I see up here, but maybe its because I'm a newbie and don't know who todd is. Is he some big staff member to gargoyles or something??? I just don't know who he is?

But to Battle Beast, now that I think about it, did I over react? Maybe I'm not quite upto data with the new slang here because I've bin on vecation in California all this time away from my friends for 3 months so I maybe don't quite remember what (on "P") means? Is that a drug or something, because I hope thats not what you ment of it. ( See it might be up in my head but I just can't remember what that means, but I'm sure I'll remember. I've heard of that somewere but I can't put my claw on it at the molment.)
Sorry if I was affencive to you Battle Beast, if I miss understood you that is...

Brook has spoken... Good night!

Brooklyn X
Hot, CA, USA
Saturday, November 29, 2003 05:17:01 AM
IP: 199.174.0.239

WWWWOOOOWWWW their now just back way up and slow down... Don't get your taxi's in a twist ok I joke alot, is their a prolblem. I'm sorry, no hard feelings ok!

Battle Beast> Was it the joke about thanksgiving? The O.o newbie crap? Or me being messed with in the chat rooms and to stop going into tham and its not the nickname its really asome and everything? I mean me on P come on! I was hacked a few days ago so some funny dude thought it would be real funny to play with my idenity and IP/ID's so now some of my friends think thats me when in reality its some person thats trying to frame me and destroy my good reputation. So I stoped a few days ago but my name is still thair even when I sleep... somebody else useing my nickname!

So please Battle Beast don't be so critical its nobodys falt but the hacker who went to all the troble to do this?
And about the type-o's I try my best to see tham but miss tham some times... thats why I mensoned it!

Sorry man geeze! What did I ever do to you for you to be mad at me? And of all people too... or am I wrong about you?

Confused and supprized...

Brook will finish this later!

Brooklyn X
Hot, Western, USA
Saturday, November 29, 2003 03:25:41 AM
IP: 199.174.0.59

Todd: Quiting your job for doing your job just makes you a professional quitster. And quitsters barely make as much as a teacher........

That said, if you're sacrificing yourself for a reason you can't inform us of, I apprecitiate it.

On the technical issue, maybe we should "Ask Greg" about it. That way we'd get an answer by the year 2050.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Saturday, November 29, 2003 12:43:24 AM
IP: 12.78.9.35

Todd...resigning isn't the solution...and to be honest, I doubt the fact that the one post being pulled is even the real reason behind so many people being so pissed. I think it really comes down to the people who are flooding the Ask Greg board with redundant, and blatantly stupid questions. That, and the aparrent belief by several posters that the one post that was pulled was actually worth asking(and perhaps answering) is the reason.

I think it really comes down to this..Greg wants to be polite and not alienate the newbies, and he is most honorable for this. Unfortunately honorable behavior should go both ways, and here it hasn't been. A certain standard should be held, and people should be expeted to act and behave in a certain manner...this is what makes a society orderly and habitable. Without rules one is left with anarchy, and that seems to be the state of the Ask Greg boards. I do believe people are even asked to read the FAQs to see if their question has already been covered...let me see....Ahh yes, there it is, under NOTICE: third and final statement.

  - Before submitting a question, look under the appropriate heading in the archives to see if it has already been answered.  To make your search easier, a long list of FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS has been compiled along with Greg's answers.  Asking fans in the comment room is another quick way to find information.  Utilizing these resources first may save you a lot of time (considering the current backlog of questions) and help reduce the queue.

There it is, in plain text, even highlighted text, for anyone to see. Perhaps it should mean something? If not, then perhaps it should be deleated.

Now, I understand that addressing the problem, and choosing to deal with it does not equal a solution, but I think it is a start. And I think everyone must agree something needs to be done.
Sahyinepu
Houston, Texas
Friday, November 28, 2003 10:21:19 PM
IP: 64.221.10.40

Just noticed this. I'd like to add myself to the list of people who hope Todd doesn't resign over this. Todd, you've done a great job vetting probably thousands of posts over the years, with nearing a thousand in the queue. Thanks for all the work you've done on it.
Ed
Friday, November 28, 2003 05:54:25 PM
IP: 131.111.8.97

As a writer myself, I do research into anything I can find about what I am writing. A story I have been writing for quite a couple of years, I feel is a good story. But then I heard of a book that sounded very similar to my story. I wanted to make sure I was not rewriting someone else's book and should my book be published, I don't want to be liable that I stole someone else's idea. So I bought the book and read it. This can be a good and bad thing to do something like that. The good part is, I can make sure my story IS different. The bad part is, I may have to leave ideas behind and make a concsious effort to remember what I read and not write it again.
How many times do you hear musical artists and movie writers taken to court because some average joe says "They stole my idea!!". Recently here in my home town, Palm Coast, FL, an ex-stripper sued Stan Lee, because she "said" she talked with him at a bar in Tampa and told him her idea on a stripper by night, superhero by later-night. Even if she did tell them, IMO, it's her own fault. Any professional writer will not talk about their story ideas till they are published, because someone, just like a patent, can rip it from under you, write it faster and then if you do publish, they say they wrote it first. If I finish a story, I send it to myself, postage date and all, so if it were to be stolen, I can prove it was my story first. Greg is protecting himself from the hassle. If I went on there and told him of my character "Siren" and why not make a character like her? And later, if he did, he could be liable if I sued him. That's why Greg doesn't read any fan fiction.

Todd, you are doing a wonderful job, please, if you can help it, don't quit. Don't listen to the yahoos. They couldn't stand an hour in your shoes and do your job nearly as well as you do.

I think there needs to be a system to keep those questions and highly FAQ questions from wasting everyone's time. Asking "why the show is cancelled?" or "what's the name of the purple gargoyle?" is pure and simple laziness. If they can't be bothered to take 5 minutes and look it up not only on this site but 100s of others, why should anyone else bother to waste their time?
I recently asked a question I knew MUST have been asked before...About if gargoyles have a celebration when mates pair up, similar to a wedding. Though I found a bit of info on it, there was no straight question and answer on the subject. And I searched for a hour. I explained I was sorry if it was asked before and I did look, but I wanted to know and even said, if Greg knew he answered it before, let me know, I'd look harder. I will make an effort NOT to both him with questions that have already been asked.

I do think the system is fine now. But perhaps there needs to be just another responsible person on board that can help. I can see anyone getting quickly buried in there.

Siren
Friday, November 28, 2003 05:19:52 PM
IP: 172.143.158.150

"just," not hust
Rac
Friday, November 28, 2003 04:44:00 PM
IP: 24.194.34.10

The hoopla:

I'm gone for a few days for Thanksgiving and see that everyone wants to lynch Todd. From what I read, Todd is the only one shoveling that mound of posts. I don't know why he can't reveal the reason for deleting that post but he doesn't sound like someone who would delete posts for no good reason. Todd, don't resign and thanks for doing this job. Otherwise, Ask Greg would probably get stalled for many months hust so Greg can find someone else he can trust.

Ask Greg:

I don't have the technical know how to fix Ask Greg but what's wrong with the php bb forum that was used for suggestions on fixing Ask Greg? People get usernames, make a new topic for their question/edit it, and admins. could delete those posts if they break the rules. Or is there a problem that I don't know of?

Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Friday, November 28, 2003 04:42:49 PM
IP: 24.194.34.10

DPH> "I'm concerned with the ability to edit questions. Hypothetically, I could ask one question, and later on think about more questions related to the same topic and use the ability to edit to insert those new questions without having to make a new post to ask those questions. I believe any edit feature would have to be restricted to admin only just to prevent somebody from attaching more questions to an existing one."

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Hmm...well perhaps the ability to edit existing posts shouldn't be allowed, or rather as you suggest, admin only. Just user delete and they'd have to repost it. Probably the best course of action.

There is another option though, but I don't know how difficult this would be to implement or how confusing it might be. Perhaps only allowing that user to edit within, say a 24-hour period. Because I know I do this alot, I realize I made a few minor mistakes, (such as what Todd pointed out, Macbeth with a lower case "b". Sorry about that Todd! =) ) and after re-reading my post I wish I could go back and edit them quickly. It's doubtful within 24 hours a person would accumulate a ton of new questions suddenly and it's unlikely a swarm of people would post after that person within that time. Could even limit this as little as 12 hours or less. After that time, the post would become "permanent" (uneditable), and the only choices would either be to delete it or make a new post which would get pushed back to the end of the queue. This would be clearly marked in the rules about registering, because it's only fair to everyone else.

Good thinking though! I didn't realize that would indeed be possible.

Jim R. - [jim@dialwforwarp.com]
Friday, November 28, 2003 02:55:35 PM
IP: 69.68.47.192

Uh, Brook? What are you on? :P

So I says to Maybel, I says... Oh wait I'll finish this later.

Battle Beast
CanadaFriday, November 28, 2003 02:36:11 PM
IP: 142.59.145.149

Come on, people, lay the heck off Todd, huh? He's one of the most steadfast and knowledgeable pillars of this fandom. I imagine that handling "Ask Greg" is a time-consuming and often thankless job, and he deserves heaps of credit for it.

As with running a Gathering, editing Avalon Mists, organizing TGS, keeping the fanfic archive and MGC and other sites going, it's easy to be critical if you've never actually tried it.

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, November 28, 2003 11:17:42 AM
IP: 208.187.159.76

To DPH and Z: Thank you for your kind words and support.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, November 28, 2003 07:35:18 AM
IP: 63.186.1.74

Ok, this is not funny, I appologize for type-o's in my comments...And people get your own IP/id's? Its not wise to play with other peoples names and IP's to get all poppulor real fast, thats why I don't go into chat rooms eneymore! This gargoyle has had it with being fraimed So...

Brook has Spoken!

Brooklyn X
Hot, Western, USA
Friday, November 28, 2003 05:28:42 AM
IP: 199.174.0.18

Ow, and lastly... What in the hell is going on with this...(O.o)...newbe crap? I'm a newbe but have never used that weard stuff newbes make up in the 1'st place...WHAT THE HELL DOSE THAT EVEN MEEN? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NEWBES, STOP MAKEING UP CRAP...

This is not the invention club for new crap people... What is happining to the world here? Will the newbes take over the world with thair (O.o) crap as we now know it? Something sreiously has to be done about this or newbes will rule over us all not a bewbe including myself because I've bin on the net for a few years so I respect all oldies and would not be consitered a newbe...Well only here that is, so!

Brook has Spoken!

Brooklyn X
Hot, Western, USA
Friday, November 28, 2003 03:07:27 AM
IP: 199.174.0.18

Yo people did everybody take a one way ticket to the past? Hay, is everybody in a time flux of something... thanksgiving was last month now that I think about it? Man it's the weird time space continuum stuff, it's making you people holusinate! (In favor of Battle Brasts defence!)

Battle Beast> Yo, man I seen you in a lot of places around the net or is everybody just using your old nickname a lot... dude I've seen 3 other people besides me use Brooklyn X... For now I'll use the name until I can think of a upgrade for it like a extension or something... And by the way, did you ever rate Terminator 3 yet on your web site?

Brooklyn X
LA, CA, USA
Friday, November 28, 2003 02:36:14 AM
IP: 199.174.0.146

In the spirit of Thanksgiving, I'd like to bring a hiatus to all of this grumbling and thank Todd and everybody else who has put so much time into this fandom and into TGS. I stumbled across these two sites a little over a year ago and boy did they bring back a lot of good memories. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the TGS stories and the Ask Greg responses. Thank you for all of your work.
Peace

Z
Thursday, November 27, 2003 11:34:25 PM
IP: 67.66.158.255

Todd - Thank you for answering that question.

Obviously, pestering Todd is not going to do any good. We'll just have to wait to see if Greg Weisman will reveal why the question was deleted. In the meantime, it's overdue to give Todd a great big "Thank You" on behalf of fans of Gargoyles for spending time on Ask Greg.

Todd - Thank you for spending time on Ask Greg. It's a pain and it puts you in an unpopular position, but we're glad you do it.

Jim R - <User ability to edit/delete their own questions> I'm concerned with the ability to edit questions. Hypothetically, I could ask one question, and later on think about more questions related to the same topic and use the ability to edit to insert those new questions without having to make a new post to ask those questions. I believe any edit feature would have to be restricted to admin only just to prevent somebody from attaching more questions to an existing one.

I do believe in setting up a separate forum just for Gathering Journals and Episode Rambles so that we could have automatic shut off value for anybody attempting to make more than 3 submissions to the main Ask Greg in 24 hours.

DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, November 27, 2003 09:48:50 PM
IP: 204.94.193.36

I offered to help before (over a year ago) but never heard any reply to my emails. I've given up on waiting for authorization and I'm working on an Ask Greg v3.0 prototype on my own, based on the suggestions and concerns posted at [http://www.s8.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=2] as well as some of my own ideas. When it's done, if Gore and Greg are willing to use it here, I'd be delighted. Otherwise I'll host it myself and copy all the Qs and As as they're posted here, so that we have a searchable database of Greg's comments.

TODD> No explanation or apology is necessary. I certainly don't see any reason for you to resign. This whole production over the deleted question is just people grumbling out loud, out of frustration at the system. There's nothing here that is your fault and there's nothing here that anyone can do about it, short of getting Gore and Greg to move to a new system. You've been doing a wonderful job and I don't think it would be easy (or even possible) to find someone half as capable to replace you.

Edge - [edge@element80.net]
Thursday, November 27, 2003 08:03:10 PM
IP: 68.37.177.241

DPH> "I do believe there should be the means to delete any question in line up to the very last moment - when it finally makes to the point where the question literally is the next one to be answered."

That's a good idea and it's been mentioned before, unfortunately, that would require some means of authorization, like a user name and password.

In reality I still think is would greatly improve things. A system to maintain user accounts would have FAR more benefits. I can think of a few here:

1. After signing up (ex. registering and user/password), that person would be instantly redirected to the FAQ page first. I think some of problem is within the advertising OF the FAQ page. I mean, sure there's a link to it right above the submit fields on the Ask Greg page, but obviously people don't seem to notice it exists. And like DPH mentions, by the time they do realize that they've inserted a question into the queue that's been answered before, there's no method to delete it. Which leads me to...

2. User ability to edit/delete their own questions. Forums have this capability, and it's quite convenient if you've realized you've made a mistake after you've posted it, even days later. Of course, administrative authority (consisting of few really good, long time people here, like Todd for example) can still override a user. So if the post is a repetitive one, and the user chooses NOT to delete it manually, then the admin(s) can step in and do so.

3. Record keeping. The system of registered users would keep statistics on the fandom. Like, how we're doing in numbers, average posts in the Ask Greg queue per day, etc. A user profile could even contain an Ask Greg post count, so the user or other users can see how many posts to Greg that person has made, how often they visit, etc. It could also tell you if Greg answered your question upon visiting here!!!

4. Controllable. If a vile, abusive user registers and creates havoc with the queue (like long strings of "stupid" questions), admin authority can once again intervene and either ban that person temporarily or delete his/her account and all of their posts simultaneously.

5. Backup. Of course, this makes sense, especially pertaining to what's being discussed in here now. Things happen, people don't always keep track either, BUT THAT'S WHAT COMPUTERS ARE FOR! :)

6. Customizability. This is sort of minor and somewhat unnecessary, but people like choice, and just presenting yourself with, say a small 64x64 pixel icon or a list of custom predefined icons would attract people, very much like this comment room. Individuality is good thing. Also makes you become noticed if you frequently visit. If ever, you wanted to go really sophisticated, your profile for Ask Greg could be widely used over the whole Station 8 site, like for here in this CR too.

The user registration page could be so incredibly simple too. Just something like pick a user name, pick a password, verify password, and choice of personal icon or something (if that). You could even have the option to have your browser remember your name/password (a cookie). This would take about a few seconds. Nothing real inconveniencing like filling out a tax form on other sites. And people who really do care about this fandom and who honestly like to ask questions and obey the rules, certainly wouldn't mind I don't think. It would certainly eliminate (or least alleviate some of) the problems with the current system. This would NOT be a forum though. Forums are different. This would still be your traditional Ask Greg system, but with improvements.

If anyone else wishes to add anything please comment. I'm going to save all of what I said here so I can remember to submit it to Gorebash. Station 8's Ask Greg system needs to go v3.0.

I haven't posted anything in the Ask Greg queue for a longtime for a few reasons, namely it's length and how fast Greg answers questions, but also because things I do post, I often forget. Or the fact that many of the questions aren't legit (repetitive, etc.).

Jim R. - [jim@dialwforwarp.com]
Thursday, November 27, 2003 07:11:45 PM
IP: 69.68.47.207

I'm sorry, but I'm not at liberty to say anything more about the deleting of Lynati's question, I'm really not. I may have said too much already as it is.

And I'm afraid that I don't recall now what the original idea was in her question that couldn't be allowed to reach Greg. (I really don't.)

I'm very, very sorry about all this.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 27, 2003 06:50:28 PM
IP: 63.186.0.83

Kathy - <Maybe he reread the upcoming questions and
realized he'd let something he shouldn't have slip by. It happens.> That's impossible. A while back, I asked Todd to delete one of my questions. He said he couldn't because he had cleared it. Eventually, Greg Weisman deleted the question himself when it came up.

Either Todd lied to me back then [which I do not believe] or Greg Weisman deleted the question. If Greg Weisman deleted the question and Todd doesn't know why, that's all I need to know. If Todd knows why the question was deleted but Greg Weisman asked not to reveal that information, that's all I need to know. If Todd knows why the question was deleted and Greg Weisman hasn't told Todd not to reveal why it was deleted, then I would like to know.

So in effect, I'm looking for 1 of 3 answers from Todd:
1)I don't know why the question was deleted
2)I do know why the question was deleted but I can't tell you
3)The question was deleted for the following reasons:

I would hope that if Todd came out with the answer of either #1 or #2, that this whole matter would disappear and everybody would leave Todd alone.

Todd, please don't resign.

Also, please give us one of the three above answers and I'm sure all the complaints should disappear.

DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, November 27, 2003 03:21:57 PM
IP: 204.94.193.56

<<what has happened that makes you want to resign?>>

I think it has to do with people treating him like crap when he actually bends over backwards for the fandom. I don't blame him after the way people have been reacting towards him.
Gabriel
Thursday, November 27, 2003 02:40:13 PM
IP: 64.219.76.123

Todd > You're overreacting again. Hang tough, this will blow over.

To Everyone Else > i'm not going to pretend I know how the system works, but it seems like there's a certain amount of shooting the messenger, for lack of a better phrase, going on. Hardly fair. There's a rule about posing questions involving original ideas or concepts. Evidently the post in question posited one or the other in Todd's view. Since it's his job to delete those posts, he did. As for why he waited as long as he did, I've no idea, but then I've already stated I don't know the mechanics of the system. Maybe he reread the upcoming questions and realized he'd let something he shouldn't have slip by. It happens.

So cut the guy some slack in the spirit of the holidays, please?


kathy
Thursday, November 27, 2003 01:14:30 PM
IP: 66.82.197.2

what the hell is going on?!

first off, for those who don't know (including myself) what was the idea in question that was in Lynati's post causing it to be deleted?

second, Todd, is there something going on that we don't know about? i think a lot of us are smelling a cover up of something. i was always under the impression that once you OK'd a question you could not go back and delete it at a later date and i know you were much farther alopg than Lynati's question, so how did you go back and delete it?

third, Todd, is Greg W aware of everything that is going on with all this right now? was Greg W aware of Lynati's question? did he tell you to delete it?

fourth, Todd, what has happened that makes you want to resign? you've done a pretty good job and just because theres trouble in the Comment Room, what makes you pull out like that? what else is going on? this all feels like a Nixon-resignation to me...

sorry if i've dug too deep, but theres a lot of holes in all this logic...

matt
Thursday, November 27, 2003 12:31:36 PM
IP: 207.230.48.28

Boba Fett> So where were the Cloisters originally? I'd never even heard of them other than in the series.
I believe there are constraints on even privately owned sites though - will have to look back at my notes.

Todd> Perhaps once they'd been revealed as living creatures, the Scots authorities may have held that view, but I honestly can't imagine that they'd have just allowed them to be handed over. There is a strong sense of pride in local heritage and there must have at least been some protest of the planned relocation.

CKayote> 'worthless acient ruin' - hardly so if it would give you an insight into how people lived during that period. Not to mention it'd be the site of a Viking invasion which had a profound effect on the area's history.

'One could also wonder if he had (knowing or unknowing) help from the Illuminati' - well, thinking back to Vows, he sent himself instructions (through the illuminati) on how to obtain the phoenix gate & the origins of the coins he was given. As far as I can mind he was to recieve the coins and their info 20 years before the instructions for getting hold of the gate, so there was no doubt some mention of Castle Wyvern.

Kanthara> 'Come to the 8th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles taking place on August 6-8 in Montreal, Quebec, Canada!' - if only it were that simple! You could fly to the carribean from glasgow for less than it costs to get off this rock! Sounds great though, hope it all runs smoothly for you.

Sheltie
Shetland, UK
Thursday, November 27, 2003 11:53:15 AM
IP: 213.122.0.253

What is with you people? Thanksgiving was last month!! ;)

Brooklyn X> Naw, I was never popular ;) but I have been around for a long, long time... (on and off.)

Todd> Come on, it's just one question. No biggie.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
Edmonton, bliss, Canada
Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:31:24 AM
IP: 142.59.145.149

I wish to apologize to everybody for the mess that my incompetence and poor observation in handling the "clearing questions for Greg" business has created, particularly Lynati. For this reason, I am resigning as the question-clearer, and will request Greg and Gore to have me replaced with someone far more alert and capable than I am, who won't let this sort of thing happen again.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, November 27, 2003 07:04:28 AM
IP: 63.186.1.246

REDONE///

See thee thing Brooklyn hats now more than eneything in the world, is chat rooms however comment rooms are amerable... What is thee least favorit things in the world you Laddys don't like? Maybe I can become King of scottland once more...

So'is that thee best yea can do...

I have nothing more...Do as you will...My Enemys! For art I am Mecbeth!

PS-And my e-mail doea not work so dont even conseve of E-mailing Me...Until I rule Kenmore once again and it's fixed?

Mecbeth
Kenmore, Cold part of, Scottland
Thursday, November 27, 2003 06:51:29 AM
IP: 199.174.0.88

See thee thing Brooklyn hats now more than eneything in the world, is chat rooms however comment rooms are amerable... What is thee least favorit things in the world you Laddys don't like? Maybe I can become Kind of scottland once more...

So'is that thee best yea can do...

I have nothing more...Do as you will...My Enemys! For art I am Mecbeth!

Mecbeth - [Mecbeth@ earthlink.net]
Kenmore, Cold part of, Scottland
Thursday, November 27, 2003 06:37:48 AM
IP: 199.174.0.88

Wha...Get your red hot chilly peppers because its thanksgiving in the US-of-A...Noooo its turkey day so have a good thanksgiving to all wether garg or human, see ya...

Brook has spoken...

Brooklyn X - [brooklyn-x@earthlink.net]
LA, CA, USA
Thursday, November 27, 2003 02:41:36 AM
IP: 199.174.0.88

Thanks Battle Beast but hay you didn't need to take me that serously its only an act... So if you see this Battle Beast than tell me some things? I hear back in the day you were real popular in the garg stuff right? And even now?...If you don't mine telling that is... I want to know the legands? Hay I'm new to all the talking thing but not the web... I've seem Chritine Morgan and I'm wondering if your up in the ranks as well so... Brook has spoken...
Brooklyn X - [brooklyn-x@earthlink.net]
LA, CA, USA
Thursday, November 27, 2003 02:25:16 AM
IP: 199.174.0.88

Thanks for the show of support, people.

FYI, that question was posted sometime before the 2002 VA gathering (Greg had recently been asking in Anwsered Questions who was planning to attend that con, and I raised my hand as one)...and it took until now to be dropped?

I know for a fact that posts have been nipped out of the queue less than a DAY after being posted. If mine wasn't fitting, why did it take over 18 months to get clipped?

and I also know for a fact that a post- granted, it was a really really important/school related one, and mine hardly qualifies- has been skipped up the line before.

[I'm sorry, but we currently don't have the technical capacity to drop portions of a question.]
O.o
I can understand not being able to directly modify a post, but you can't copy and paste text?
Honestly.

and after waiting for two years for the questions to be answered, a newbie is hardly going to be a newbie any more, are they? If they're still here, chances are they know the anwser, and if they aren't still with the fandom, what is the likeliehood that they are still checking to see if their question has been anwsered?

and you still haven't told me one way or another WHAT PART was unsuitable, so I can hardly repost it, can I?

For that matter, you let a post go by that actually had "Have you ever thought about" go by less than three months ago. I rechecked my list,and I still don't see anything that counts as an original idea.

You know what? I think I'll just borrow part of Mara's personality, bring the list to Montreal (YAYE MONTREAL GATHERING!), stand up, and make a WHOLE ROOM full of people with equally valid questions sit and WAIT while I go through and ask every last twenty-one of them. And I'm willing to bet I get them all answered, at least with a "I'm not anwsering that at this time."
I mean, what's the point in posting at Ask Greg if the only questions that are allowed to be anwsered are the ones that have been asked before?

Lynati
Thursday, November 27, 2003 01:00:45 AM
IP: 64.216.155.25

Woah, Vash, I don't know where you're commin' from but Thanksgiving was a month ago!!

Brooklyn X> I was only joking. You can use the name "Brooklyn X". I don't go by the nik anymore, so it's up for grabs. :)

THE QUEUE> I don't want to go off on a rant here, so I won't.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
Edmonton, tiredness, Canada
Thursday, November 27, 2003 12:18:39 AM
IP: 142.59.145.149

Yo everybody in, tickets please... I have a question for you all who can remember lexwyvern from 1999. What happened to him 4 years ago eneyways and what was he like. Its weird, nobody drops off mother earth like he did and for nobody to notice... and its not like its eneything good people to not contact the gargoyle fans in 4 years. Something is up with that so tell me if eney of you knew him...From a fan who would like the truth to be known because the truth is out their! Brook has spoken...
Brooklyn X2 - [brooklyn-x@earthlink.net]
LA, CA, USA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:07:30 PM
IP: 199.174.2.91

Whoa, I don't come in for a few days and everything gets crazy.
To add the the top 5 chars. I did some thinking and I would have to put Xanatos First ... reasons... Well, he did time travel, he's worth a few mil, he married a actress/x-convict. had to deal with monsters/Gargoyles that are over a thousand yrs old. Puck/Owen ... true he was cool and all but I wouldn't want some guy with a spilt personality hang with my kid. He also had to deal w/ Demona trying to kill the human race and in some ways helping her. Anyway there's a lot more but I don't want to take up to much time. All I can say is, out of all the stuff that happened with him, he dealt with it perfectly and in all Takes first place.
2)Elisa, pretty much for same reasons
3) Angela she's strong, young, the only FEMALE, that's a lot to hold on the shoulders.
4)Hudson, after all he's been through he keeps on wanting more
5)Goliath, Need I say more.


As for banning questions that have already been asked.. how is the ask Greg crew going to know?. No one wants to look through the archives when it's easier to ask it 70 times in a month and hope for an answer. the only way that it can be banned, my guess would be is to somehow scan the questions before they get posted, if there was some kind of search program that was count the amount in the question match it up to ones that were already asked and narrow it down due to that. Then again.... That would probably take way to long.

For any typos I made, sry I left my glasses at work :)

Babs
Philly, Pa
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 08:39:01 PM
IP: 68.80.222.40

The Ask Greg system is quite barebones as I understand it. Greg doesn't even have the option of skipping questions and coming back to them later. If he had that option I'm sure a bunch of these questions would have been queued up a little longer.

Other suggestions:
Greg doesn't want to alienate newbies by deleting rehashed questions, so how about Ask Greg Admins. who have the authority to answer questions by copying and pasting previous answers from Greg. I'm pretty sure a copy & paste is the only thing that Greg would agree to do, even if we did just copy & paste "read the FAQ."

Jimmy
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 08:33:00 PM
IP: 199.74.79.167

Sorry about causing this to-do, I really am. As for how we were able to delete that question in queue - I'm afraid that I'm not at liberty to explain how we did that. I'm sorry about that as well.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 07:18:07 PM
IP: 65.178.240.12

Yea, thanks you guys for telling me. I really needed to hear that... And to *Battle Beast* Is this Brooklyn X2 nickname ok with you if I use it or do you even care at all? Brook has spoken...
Brooklyn X2 - [brooklyn-x@earthlink.net]
LA, CA, USA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 05:53:55 PM
IP: 199.174.1.249

Okay, guys, I'm reposting this message from last week, because it's because of the Gathering that we got Disney to notice us, it's because of the Gathering that they're actually getting a DVD out next Fall. And it's because of people like you that this convention has been happening for the last seven years, and will happen an 8th time in Montreal next summer. Siryn is right -- it's the fans that keep the fandom going, so DO YOUR PART!

Is there anyone here that DOESN'T know that every year, the fans of the Gargoyles series get together to celebrate the show, learn from each other in art, writing, voice acting, get to talk with the people behind the show and generally have a great time?

Where have you been hiding?

Come to the 8th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles taking place on August 6-8 in Montreal, Quebec, Canada! We'll be staying in the heart of downtown, close to everything great about the city, and in a hotel that will knock your socks off.

Our confirmed guests are (of course) Greg Weisman and Thom Adcox Hernandez; more guests will be announced later. Activities include many panels on art, writing, voice acting, and the animation industry in general and what our guests have worked on aside from Gargoyles. We will have the Art Show, the Clan Olympics, the Masquerade Ball, and what promises to be the BEST BANQUET in the History of the Gathering!

Our panels have a theme this year: we will be talking about ACTION! Some panellists will discuss weaponry and fighting, modern as well as medieval, so this is a big attraction for anyone who's a writer or an artist, or just for people who want a great show, as some SCA heavy fighters will demonstrate techniques of the time!

Of course, the Radio Play's on again, so come to the auditions and be cast for a role in the play written by Greg Weisman!

There's so much going on that weekend, so make sure you take the trip to Montreal next summer! Start saving now, and register!

Click my name for more information, or copy this link and make sure you visit us:

http://www.GatheringoftheGargoyles.com

Kanthara - [<-- Gathering of the Gargoyles 2004]
Montreal, August 6-8, 2004, CANADA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 03:56:38 PM
IP: 66.131.16.44

Seriously folks, this is a problem with the system, not a problem with Todd.

The current Ask Greg system needs revision. If nothing else, there needs to be some way to stem the tide of endless, useless, and pointless repeat questions that drive Greg nuts.

That might even let Greg makes some headway into that ridiculously large backlog.

But, ultimately, the site owner is the only person who has the authority to enact that change. I haven't seen Gore in a while. Hopefully someone has the presense of mind to email someone who can actually fix the problem, rather than just venting in the public forum where weeks at a time go by with Gorebash not even reading them.

Oh, and the last time I checked, this was still a family-friendly room, right?

Anyway, just wait until I'm the Evil Overlord. I promise everything will be better.*



* Except for the things that don't improve or get worse, which I will simply sweep under the rug by censoring criticism thereof.

Kaioto - [kaioto@yahoo.com]
Boston, MA, USA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 02:51:29 PM
IP: 208.204.155.241

I think by now, Gore is aware of the problem. At the con, he explained that he was overworked and just didn't have time to focus on making a new system yet (will things improve next year? We can only hope). If you have the know-how to actually improve AG yourself, then it might be useful to let Gore know. It might be even better if you actually had a prototype done and ready to show him (otherwise, it's all just talk). If a new system is already made and ready to implement, and Gore has a chance to look it over and agree it's an improvement, I don't see a reason why he wouldn't upgrade the current version. Of course it's his site, and as Greg often says, Gore has the final say.

Todd> You didn't answer my question. Has the system changed, or was Lynati's post an exception? Can we expect many other questions that are currently in queue to disappear? It used to be reassuring to see that one's question had made it past your screenings, but now if we can't even trust what we see at the beginning of the queue.... (worried for her own posts)

I'm off to warmer skies. Happy Thanksgiving, all!

Vash
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 11:55:53 AM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Just so more rumours don't start.

Brooklyn X> The show isn't slated to continue currently. What you probably heard is the DVD of the show is going to be released in 2004.

Now..if all the 400plus people that actually posted in s8 the last couple of weeks CAME to the gathering..then maybe it would give the Disney execs something to look twice over.

Like mentioned before..any fandom is really popular and known based on the people WITHIN it. It's the fans that make the difference and show their support. :)

Okay..so done..need to work on coding/drawings.

Siryn - [<--Gathering of the Gargoyles 2004]
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 11:01:01 AM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Just..for the sake of arguement.

If you honestly want something done/accomplished in this fandom..less complaining more doing. I think everyone can agree, this topic has been argued to hell and back again. I think the best course of action would be to email Gore and let your opinion be known. Bashing Todd won't solve anything. (this is not to say I agree in the total deletion of the huge post). I don't know if Todd talks to Eric on a regular basis (I know I don't anymore), but at the very least, emailing gore and letting him know a change should be made would help. It only takes five minutes to type an email, and I'm sure if you flood Eric's box he'll realize something is up.

A lot of fandom projects are only currently maintained because fans have come up and said "Hey! Do you need help?" because I want to!"

TGS, GNC, MGC, AMGC, Avalon Mists, Gargoyles X are just a few websites I can name where I know fans took up the reins and said "Okay, I'm going to do this, because the fandom doesn't have this and it would be fun to do."

Now I'm not suggesting starting a new "Ask Greg" or anything like that, but I AM suggesting to email Gore, and instead of yelling and going around the same agruement again...maybe try to come to a large agreement on how to actually fix things?

Maybe have more people manage the system? Maybe rethink the dynamics of the system? I don't know how possible this actually is..but it's worth thinking about.

:)

Siryn - [gore@s8.org]
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:55:24 AM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Wwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooo Taxi I did to sorry... Battle Beast but maybe were twins from the fabric of space and time because I'm the time dancer. Well what do you think I should call myself ...Mr...myself?..I didn't know???

Hellow everyone, so I'm the new gargoyle on the block but so what right we all were once after all, nobody cares who I am right! I hope your all up with debating around the skiff as I've seen so far. I've ben likeing this gargoyle stuff for all my life. My favorite chapter to the show was future tense and story's I've read so far from lexwyvern and Christine Morgan all 100 or so of them. The authors that created them are the best their is and it took a wile to read their story's too...years...and I think you all should read tham too, their that good and I've see some crapy ones before but beleave me these are not. I also hope I'm not acting brooks part too good...I try to act like him when I enter this gargoyle universe so I maybe mean or nice like him when the time is right it maybe offensive at times, but hay its Brooklyn for crying out loud. I'm currently reading the time dancer saga so is you all care its good so far... As a Brooklyn and Demona but demona I love, I know... just a cartoon right, well so what I admit it ok. Well I'm a fan of thows characters, my favorite out of them all. So I will be back to see what you think. Good stone sleep to you all gargoyles and to all flesh dwellers that sleep in their skin sooo... Brook has spoken..

Brooklyn X - [brooklyn-x@earthlink.net]
LA, CA, USA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:10:33 AM
IP: 199.174.2.35

Wait, wait wait, wait wait!

Back up just a second!!

Brooklyn X? I thought I was the only one to use that nick name.

What ever the case, Hi!

ASK GREG> Now, I don't want to go on a rant here, but...

I have basically stopped posting unless something really came around that I had to comment on (MIA Rant, for instance) or a burning question. I have read the archieve about twice through, and I only remember like one question/answer. So If ever I ask a question, Greg will tell me to "read the ark." I have already, so the answer is somewhere up in my head (although I can't remember it.)

*SIGH*

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
Edmonton, Frozen, Canada
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 09:54:07 AM
IP: 142.59.145.149

the problem in this room right now is that everyone is right. lazy fans (both veterans and newbies) are filling the queue with stupid or FAQ, there is no mechanism to delete questions you submitted, there are few rules or programs to stop flooding of the queue, Greg's rules for not submitting ideas are understandable, but vague and their interpretation is left to Todd, Todd's power is also not as strong as we might think, he is binded by Greg's rules and the constraints of the Ask greg program.

in short, we are coming right back to a cause and an argument we've been discussing for YEARS! i don't get it. we have people volunteering to rework the system, we have a plethora of ideas on how to improve the system, we have Greg's blessing to do what we can, and most of all, we have a fandom that has been craving something better for YEARS!

can we please make this happen?

matt
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 09:11:44 AM
IP: 207.230.48.68

Yo Taxi! Hhhheeeelllooowwww.... He created the show pal, not disney and besides your not the entire world who wants the show to continue... Mr. King Lucifer the 3rd! Sorry but Greg should be in titled to the show so their for he should have some ownership to it, if not than disney cheated him out and thats illegal sooo... Brook has spoken!
Brooklyn X - [brooklyn-x@earthlink.net]
LA, CA, USA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 08:38:29 AM
IP: 199.174.1.69

Believe me, I'm as sorry about this as you are. Unfortunately, I don't have authorization to delete the "Why was the show cancelled?" questions - if I did, you wouldn't see a single one in the queue - but I do have strict orders not to let any "original idea" questions through. The reason is that, if Greg saw any original ideas from the fans, there'd be the danger that, if he ever got to do "Gargoyles" again, some disgruntled person might accuse him of stealing an idea of his or hers and threaten a lawsuit which could shut down the series.

I suppose that what this means is that we need to be extra careful in submitting our questions to make certain that nothing in it reads like a story idea, so that this won't happen again.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 07:46:51 AM
IP: 63.186.1.82

I'm wondering if new damn gargoyle shows will ever be made? It's ben about 7 years now. So all this gathering stuff has ben going on ever since and not to mention the story's most of us, who are devoted gargoyle fans such as myself who want to keep the gargoyles saga alive write tham. I've also seen in stuff mentioned in the 2004 gathering that say they will FINALLY continue the show, damn well hope so...I wonder if or when that will every happen or if its even true at all? Why doesn't disney just give it up to WB, cartoon network, or something? It's not doing them much use eneyways because disney destroyed the gargoyles show in the 1st place with the Goliath chronicles eneyways. I think if disney makes the continuations of the show they will make the series look worse. I hope Greg can take over the show again so disney dose not screw it up again and maybe make a more mature version of it. I think because we gargoyle fans have grown up with them, we need a adult gargoyles show so it can be a more action oriented experience and things of that nature... Whats what brook thinks!
Brooklyn X - [brooklyn-x@earthlink.net]
LA, CA, USA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 07:19:15 AM
IP: 199.174.0.111

Sheesh... heaven forbid an original question gets through to Greg. It might distract him from answering all the tired old "When is the series coming back" or "What is a gargoyle?" questions. After all, I'm sure he enjoys those just as much as the rest of us do.

TGIW... one more day until my four-day weekend.

Patrick
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 07:02:25 AM
IP: 65.43.152.72

Edge> How about you email Gore? It seems the best way to get his attention. eric at s8.org
Vash
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 04:46:39 AM
IP: 129.98.127.164

My offer to rewrite the queue system still stands to Gore, Greg, et al. I'm endlessly frustrated by the fact that Greg offers his time to post here and after so many years, this queue system is still the "best" we have. My professional job is PHP coding, so making improvements here (searchable categories, etc) would be a cakewalk - and an absolute joy.

If you know a way to help me convince Gorebash, please drop me an email :) edge@element80.net

Edge - [edge@element80.net]
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 04:29:10 AM
IP: 130.126.144.12

*bampf*
Considering things like this people wonder why I keep to meslef and lurk rather than comment. *sigh*
*bampf*

Ethan Gilchrist - [Ethan@randominformation.com]
New York, NY, USA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:47:40 AM
IP: 66.65.56.78

Admittedly, what I found somewhat disturbing about the Ask Greg queue is you can't delete your own question after you ask it. I realized there were questions that I shouldn't have asked, but after Todd had approved them, they were stuck in line.

I do believe there should be the means to delete any question in line up to the very last moment - when it finally makes to the point where the question literally is the next one to be answered.

Aside from the 1st two months following the Gathering, I do believe there should be a rule against submitting more than 3 questions in a 24 hour period, where you automatically get blocked from submitting more questions. That would stop the queue from being flooded so easily.

And yes, *please* shut down the submission button for Ask Greg. I just checked and I thought the page containing the queue was 1651 kilobytes without any hope of getting smaller any time soon.


DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:05:51 AM
IP: 204.94.193.39

I figgured that...just letting them know that even newbies are unhappy with what is going on, and that being a newbie is not an excuse for not reading the FAQs. :)
Sahyinepu
Houston, Texas
Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:04:01 AM
IP: 64.221.9.42

Sahyinepu> Just so you know, you're not one of those newbies I was talking about.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:20:04 PM
IP: 216.179.3.119

as a newbie I thought I would add my two cents...

I have posted one question on Ask Greg, and I feel it was valid after spending hours reading through the FAQs. I have to agree with others that something needs to be done..stupidity is no excuse, neither is being lazy. I know the people who run this are tired of hearing it...but maybe a little more effort should be taken to address the issues and deal with them. Why should a few idiots be allowed to hijack the boards? It doesn't seem fair. I want to see interesting and thought provoking questions answered, not stupid ones. Especially ones that have already been asked.
Sahyinepu
Houston, Texas
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:13:38 PM
IP: 64.221.11.118

I'm going to rant.

Count me in as another person who thinks deleting Lynati's question was complete and utter bullshit.

I know it's not my place to say so, but this angers me. After months and months and months of stupid innane questions, ALL OF WHICH HAVE BEEN ANSWERED BEFORE AD NAUSEUM, waiting for one of the few intelligent posts in there to go through, at the last minute it gets deleted.

What violated the rules about that? C'mon tell me. I read the archive quite a bit and I saw no violation of the rules in there.

I've heard the arguments "we don't want to alienate the newbies"... if any of those people who post those stupid questions can't take at least two minutes to read the FAQ or search the archive for the info which has been there for a LONG FUCKING TIME, then I guarantee that none of them are sticking around waiting for an answer. Hell, many of those are submitted from the same IP under different names, it wouldn't surprise me if some people are flooding the place on purpose.

But you know something, do you know who is being alienated? The people who not only have been with this fandom for a long time but the ones who have worked their asses off for it out of love for the series and the fandom.

No shame in being a newbie, we were all newbies once, but the ones pulling that shit in "Ask Greg" aren't fans (if they were, they'd take the time to read the archives, or ask in the CR before spamming Ask Greg). Don't cater to them at the expense of those who poured their hearts and sweat into this fandom.

Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:00:33 PM
IP: 216.179.3.119

Todd> Has the system changed? I thought you edited the queue page directly as well as your emails to Greg (in other words, I rememeber seeing questions disappear from the queue when you removed them). I agree with the others that it's a little disappointing to think that your question is going to make it to the end of the queue, only to find out at the last minute that it's been deleted. At least when you see it deleted from the queue early on, you have a chance to resubmit it quickly.

I just think Lynati's case is particularly disappointing since it's been a while since any good questions have been asked, and her post was chock-full of 'em. Now it's going to be back to the 'why was the series cancelled' routine.

Vash
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:10:56 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

Why isn't there a rule against repeating answered questions?

Obviously you'd want to err on the side of caution. But I don't think "why was the show taken off the air?" etc. are helping anyone. Since Greg's answered some questions so often, he's not going to type out long explanations again.

Ragnarok
Hfx., NS, Canada
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:09:26 PM
IP: 24.222.142.232

It does seem wrong that a question that's waited about two years should be taken off right when it's next up on the to be answered queue. Then to say, well now re-write it and wait another two years for it to be answered... O_o

If it were unacceptable, why was it left on the Ask Greg page after it was posted? It wouldn't matter so much but that there IS a two year wait after all. If Lynati has to re-write it, I think it should have it's place in the next batch of questions to be answered. It would only be fair since it was left until the last moment.

Mooncat

Mooncat
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:08:54 PM
IP: 68.102.0.23

I'm sorry, but we currently don't have the technical capacity to drop portions of a question. If a question contains anything that we can't let Greg see, even if it's one question in a post containing ten questions, the only means that we presently have of getting rid of it is to drop the whole thing.

And I know that the "newbie questions" are frustrating, but they don't break the rules at present (the rules only forbid ideas disguised as questions and original ideas). So I'm afraid that we're stuck with them.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 08:27:46 PM
IP: 63.186.1.229

ASH - Sorry, but we had to delete that question because it contained an original idea in it, and we have to keep Greg from seeing them.

Maybe Lynati could reconstruct that part of her questions which didn't contain original ideas (although, for obvious reasons, she'd have to wait a very long time to get an answer) and resubmit it?


Todd::

So... the billion of newbie fucking morons who ask the same questions over and over again, frustrating Greg and the rest of us, can get in and flood the damn thing, but you chuck an entire long post because of something you could easily have asked Lyn permission to pull out and then done so?

Dude, that is just wrong on so many levels. The next n00b who's question gets in after this, I am so losing any and all respect for you.

How about you get Lyn to resend *you* the post and *you* forward it directly in the order that her first post (the one you kicked)was going to be handled?

Fuck, and everybody wonders why no one likes contributing to this fandom...
Mara
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 07:33:07 PM
IP: 205.188.209.40

Wait, what? the giant Canmore thing finally makes it up, and you guys choose NOW to actually start bothering to maintain the bloody queue?

and what "original ideas"? there was no "original idea"....
O.o

for that matter, why not have just dropped the part you felt was innapropriate? I know that's not typically the way things are handled, but its not like much has been focused on managing the line-up otherwise. (I do see the other page has had some changes, which is nice.)

how about you just tell me what you decided was innapropriate, and I can alter it myself, drop it in here, and you can pop it back in the line-up where it belongs, hmm?

yes, I do have the whole thing saved. I save everything. I like files. Someone want to tell me why TGS has acomment room archive and s8 doesn't?

*goes to take a nap*

Lynati
: P : P : P : P, @_@
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 07:19:14 PM
IP: 65.66.159.95

VASH - Sorry, but we had to delete that question because it contained an original idea in it, and we have to keep Greg from seeing them.

Maybe Lynati could reconstruct that part of her questions which didn't contain original ideas (although, for obvious reasons, she'd have to wait a very long time to get an answer) and resubmit it?

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 06:10:16 PM
IP: 63.186.1.229

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAA<<<<<<<<<<<<Lexinton>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.......Copy conplete........
Copyer
Tuesday, November 25, 2003 07:08:01 AM
IP: 199.174.0.3

I imagine when Xanatos showed up with more money than that part of Scotland has seen in a century, the local authorities had an easy decision between worthless ancient ruin and a blank check. Literally. It's not far in my mind to see Xanatos pull up to wherever you buy medievil scottish castles and hand the guyn in charge a blank check.

One could also wonder if he had (knowing or unknowing) help from the Illuminati.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Monday, November 24, 2003 08:54:27 PM
IP: 132.170.40.123

Hm, I've been waiting for Greg to reach a huge post made by Lynati over at Ask Greg that had some interesting questions. Now I see that it's disappeared off the submission page but hasn't appeared on the response page. Did Greg avoid answering it on purpose, or is the system not synchronized? Anyone else been paying attention? (of course Greg may simply be taking a long time to answer, which is good since that implies he'll go into detail).
Vash
Monday, November 24, 2003 08:43:00 PM
IP: 129.98.127.164

This is a minor matter and I really ought to let it go, but: it's "Macbeth", not "MacBeth". The b shouldn't be capitalized.

At any rate, as for the bit about shipping the gargoyles back to Scotland, I think that Goliath would not be at all interested in going. He views Manhattan as their protectorate now, and there wouldn't really be anything awaiting them back in Scotland except a forsaken part of the western Scottish coast where Castle Wyvern originally stood. (Of course, I suspect that a number of other people in New York would like the idea of the gargoyles being deported, including Tony Dracon, the Pack, and various other criminals.) I doubt that the Scottish authorities would want the gargoyles back, either; they'd be more likely to tell the New Yorkers, "They're your problem; you take care of them."

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, November 24, 2003 07:20:14 PM
IP: 63.186.1.122

Sheltie> During the tour given at the Cloisters in NYC, they mention that the actual cloister buildings shipped over and reassembled in Manhattan were purchased just before laws preventing it went into effect. That leads me to believe that Wyvern was privately owned.
Boba Fett
CIA, Valencia, CA
Monday, November 24, 2003 05:41:57 PM
IP: 198.182.157.12

WEll, I'll try to tackle one of the most influencial questions.
For most Influencial charicters:
1) Demona. Without her treachery none of this woulda' happened. God bless her. ;p
2) Xanatos. Mr. Moneybags. He's responsable for the Castle being above the clouds, the Pack, the mutates, and, in fact, by getting Dr. Sevarius involved with the Gargoyels, that makes him indirectly responsable for the clones. The steel clan, the nano-bots, etc. etc.
3. Puck- Not only is he the trickster responsable for Demona turning to human by day, he's also Xanatoses Major Domo. He has a hand in a lot of the crap Xanatos is responsable for. Not to mention he was responsable for telling Xanatos about a lot of things he wouldn't have known about otherwise.
Golaith- Eh, what can you say? He is the clan's leader, and they are the center of the story. He doesn't personally drive any of the plots for the most part, but his reactions to what happens guide clan. Hmmm.. You know, they are a very reactive bunch. I wonder what would happen if they were a little more proactive.
5. Wierd sisters- its thier fault Demona is still alive, and MacBeth.

Aed Sawin
Monday, November 24, 2003 02:41:17 PM
IP: 140.186.151.83

Guess I'm feeling "cool" this week. =) *looking over my last post*
Jim R.
Monday, November 24, 2003 02:04:54 PM
IP: 69.34.23.200

13th in the agreement of banning Mondays.

Sorry, missed the top 5 eps., but here are mine. In fact, I remember voting on these as part of the Gathering 2002, top 10 marathon.
1. "Pendragon". Could never get over how cool King Arthur fighting MacBeth was. Historically and literally they were two different people in two different times, but it's definitely something unique to see happen in a show like Gargoyles. And it's definitely not something any other show could replicate very easily.
2. "The Mirror". Intro to the third race. Gargoyles and humans switch places. I think everyone has the same thoughts on the The Mirror. It was such as cool episode.
3. "Avalon (1,2,3)". Counting this as one BIG episode. Ah...time travel in Gargoyles...how it CAN'T be altered. The Archmage looked alot cooler after he received all his powerful tokens. I thought this episode was a big turning point in the show.
4. "Future Tense". A glimpse of what could've been. I've always been fascinated with the "what ifs" in any TV series. But this episode did the the thinking for me. ;) And it was nothing like I would've imagined. So cool.
5. "M.I.A." Bringing WWII into Gargoyles adds to the timeline the show encompassed. WWII being of course, a pivotal time in the course of human events. I have a small interest for WWII, and have read many books on it.

Top 5 characters:
1. Brooklyn (most people take a liking to Brooklyn as I did as well when I first watched the show)
2. King Arthur
3. Xanatos
4. Demona
5. Puck/Owen
---------------------------------------------------------
Vash> "I noticed your page was back! yaaay!!!" Yeah, determination finally struck me...it's time I did something to rebuild it. Still making further refinements, but at least I'm back into the swing of things.

Jim R. - [jim@dialwforwarp.com]
Monday, November 24, 2003 02:01:53 PM
IP: 69.34.23.200

Missed the top ten, oh well.
Thought I'd make a somewhere intellectual post for once though!
I was doing some reading last night for an essay I have to write for my Archaeology & Built Heritage Conservation class, the question being:
"Using examples from Britain and around the world, critically discuss the ethical problems faced in the display of cultural material of national and international importance."
Anyways, we're to refer to things like cultural ownership, cost, security, conservation measures available etc. and this got me thinking - had it really existed, Castle Wyvern would have held an important part in its local history and would likely have come under the protection of laws like the Planning (Listed Building and Conservation Areas) Act 1990. My tutor noted in his lecture that, in practice, all buildings from before 1700 are included in the listings.
I'm sure we're all too aware that in this day & age, money talks - but although Xanatos is one of, if not THE richest man in the world, I still fail to see how he could have been given consent to not only restore the castle, but ship it in its entirety, to the other side of the Atlantic. The money may have benefited the community, but they'd have lost a large part of their heritage and the chance to learn more about their past.
Owen tells Xanatos that the locals consider it haunted - surely this would merely produce more questions about the history and intrigue folk rather than making them want rid of it.
This has probably been discussed here before, but what about the gargoyles themselves? Hatched in Scotland, but transported to NYC, bought as any other piece of statuary. With the stories surrounding the castle and the excellent condition of its 'statues', I would have thought they'd put up more of a fight it keep it or get them back. I'm thinking of the likes of the Elgin Marbles and the Rosetta Stone, which the British Museum refuses to hand back to Greece and Egypt, or the St Ninian's Isle Treasure - a copy of which is displayed in the Shetland museum, while the originals are hidden away in a box in Edinburgh. There are many here who feel it should be returned to the islands, even as a temporary loan, (like in the case of the Lewis chessmen) so I can't help but feel that some may have felt the same about Wyvern.
Having said that though, would Goliath & co even want to return to their homeland after settling themselves in NYC?

Well that's got the brain going again - I have like a billion extensions on my assignments cos of my eye problems, but the accompanying headaches meant my head was like fog for most of last week and couldn't get anything done.
So what do you all think? Would the clan ever return to Scotland, or should they even have been allowed to be taken in the first place?




Sheltie
Shetland, UK
Monday, November 24, 2003 08:49:15 AM
IP: 81.135.54.96

Eleventh in the name of people who fell asleep before midnight and weren't around to claim an earlier spot. :P
Patrick
Monday, November 24, 2003 06:52:47 AM
IP: 65.43.152.72

WOAH! Barely made it!

10TH!!!!

matt
Monday, November 24, 2003 06:07:37 AM
IP: 207.230.48.39

9th in the name of the Fay!

mc

Mooncat
Monday, November 24, 2003 02:58:41 AM
IP: 68.102.0.23

8th in the name of the preciousssss!
silverbolt
Monday, November 24, 2003 02:54:49 AM
IP: 81.131.60.81

7!
Babs: I couldn't agree more. I'd say the government should abolish Monday, but then Tuesday would suck.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Monday, November 24, 2003 02:09:37 AM
IP: 132.170.40.123

1st
....time in top ten, that is ;)
sixth!

zess
Monday, November 24, 2003 12:30:43 AM
IP: 63.150.32.146

Fifth
Sahyinepu
Houston, Texas
Monday, November 24, 2003 12:25:18 AM
IP: 64.221.11.85

4th.
Leo
Monday, November 24, 2003 12:15:41 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Split off from topic. Who is you'r fav. small role character.
Mine would have to be Kenny, he ended up hating the Gargoyles, not caring, trying to kill them, and then saving Goliaths life along with Elisa's. I don't think there is any other way to redeem yourself.
Babs
Monday, November 24, 2003 12:04:31 AM
IP: 68.80.222.40

Third :( Coulda been first.

Well, maybe you heard about it and maybe you didn't. But, In Edmonton, we had a HOCKEY game outdoors in Commonwealth Stadium. Yup. 57,162 people sat in -20C weather for up to eight hours.

I WAS ONE OF THEM.

I had a blast. It was the largest crowd to EVER attend an NHL game. It'll never happen again. :P

ANYWAY...

I was going to wait a while to do this, but since it has come up...

WHAT ARE THE:

1) TOP 5 EPS?

2) TOP FIVE EPS THAT ADDED TO THE EVOLVING STORY?

3) TOP FIVE GREATEST MOMENTS?

4) TOP FIVE MOST INFLUENTIAL CHARACTERS (On the series)?

5) TOP FIVE MOST EVOLVED CHARACTERS (From 1st appearance to "The Journey")?

Everyone is posting their own top five favourite Eps. So I propose...

Lets get a consensus (everyone agrees) We will banter and state our opinion on each ep/ question untill a consensus is reached.

I shall start it off.

1) TOP 5 EPS?

ALL are in no particular order:
1. City of Stone IV It showed us a different side of Demona; it told us the secrets of Demona and Macbeth, and the the Wierd Sisters have a load to carry.
2. The Mirror: It was Zany; Off the wall; and down right wierd.
3. The Gathering I: It brought Goliath and Co. home, as well as set in motion the event of the next ep.
4. Awakening I: Got the ball rolling; told us the story of the Gargoyles and their terrible plight.
5. Deadly Force: It was an ep that wasn't affraid to tackle a big issue.

2) TOP FIVE EPS THAT ADDED TO THE EVOLVING STORY?

1. City of Stone I: started the tale of Demona's long story.
2. Avalon I: Told the first part of the story of the Rookery Eggs.
3. Thrill of the Hunt: Introduced The Pack.
4. Leader of the Pack: Set in motion the events that would lead to Xanatos Marrying Fox.
5. I'll met by Moonlight: Introduced Oberon and Titania.

3) TOP FIVE GREATEST MOMENTS?

1. Elisa and Goliath kiss
2. Castle Wyvern Masacre
3. The Pack "upgrade" themselves
4. Goliath Meets his clone
5. Demona becomes human by day

4) TOP FIVE MOST INFLUENTIAL CHARACTERS?

1. Demona
2. Xanatos
3. Goliath
4. Elisa
5. Oberon

5) TOP FIVE MOST EVOLVED CHARACTERS?
1. Brooklyn
2. Xanatos
3. Dingo
4. Broadway
5. Owen

Now the fun begins at deciding... This is to be done by the fans, and should be "official."

If anyone else has a question we should debate, please post it!

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
Edmonton, CITY OF CHAMPIONS, Canada
Monday, November 24, 2003 12:03:48 AM
IP: 142.59.145.149

........................2nd.

Vin

castle0909
Monday, November 24, 2003 12:02:40 AM
IP: 205.188.208.139

1 st !
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.

Babs
Monday, November 24, 2003 12:00:17 AM
IP: 68.80.222.40