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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending April 19, 2004

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WVRN> lets not get ahead of ourselves... we are not sure its Xanatos... he seems the most likely suspect, but its not like Greg to drop a hint like that and the obvious answer is the right one. it could be anyone who knows about Wyvern, has the money, is still alive, and has a reason to own a tv station. how ironic would it be if Demona owned the station, lol! i admit, its probably Xanatos, but heres a thought if it is. if Xanatos owns WVRN, don't you think he'd be asked before consenting to an interview and wouldn't WVRN send a more prominent intervier, like Travis Marshal, to interview Xanatos (the owner of the company afterall) in Hunter's Moon? are we even sure that Travis Marshal works for WVRN?
matt
Sunday, April 18, 2004 07:50:23 PM
IP: 216.178.8.76

Thank you Vertigo1
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Sunday, April 18, 2004 03:37:01 PM
IP: 68.159.211.104

Paul Cousins wrote: "What is the web-link to the current 'Ask Greg' section? The 'current' link on Station 8 dates at 2002."

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/response.html

There ya go! ;)

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Sunday, April 18, 2004 02:54:11 PM
IP: 207.65.59.157

Xanatos owns W.V.R.N? *pauses to think* Hey, that answers the question of what tv station probably aired the Pack.

I don't think Xanatos personally owns WVRN, but rather one of the companies he manages probably does.

This brings back the age old question: Name an industry that Xanatos Entreprises isn't in.

DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, April 18, 2004 02:33:54 PM
IP: 67.14.195.36

Faieq wrote: "Do you guys suppose that Xanatos owns WVRN?"

Until Greg Weisman posted his statement, I'd have to admit I'd never made the connection (I just thought of the call letters as a kind of in-joke to the audience). But now, I would agree with the conclusion that Xanatos owns the station. IMO, only a few people would know the historical name for the castle, and Xanatos is one of those. I imagine most people in NYC would just call it "that castle on the Eyrie Building" or something like that.

Abby
Minneapolis, MN
Sunday, April 18, 2004 01:32:20 PM
IP: 24.118.27.174

What is the web-link to the current 'Ask Greg' section? The 'current' link on Station 8 dates at 2002.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Sunday, April 18, 2004 12:02:54 PM
IP: 68.159.211.104

The screen went black during several minutes of Eye of the Beholder earlier. Just the scene in the store with Elisa and the Werefox.
Dernhelm
okc
Sunday, April 18, 2004 11:57:33 AM
IP: 68.12.196.86

We got an interesting tidbit in askgreg this week. Don't know if anyone else has already picked p on this but Greg Said in reference to the W.V.R.N news station:

"To the West, they begin with a K. Within those perameters, a station owner can choose it's own call letters (assuming no one else has already picked your choice).

The above is a HUGE hint as to who owns WVRN. Actually that last sentence is an even huger hint."

Do you guys suppose Xanatos owns W.V.R.N?

Faieq
Sunday, April 18, 2004 10:51:39 AM
IP: 212.159.30.247

Greetings all...

Just in case anyone might be interested, I'll be on a global broadcast internet radio station tonight, as one of the newest DJs for RadioGetsWild.com... you can tune in by going to their website, and clicking on their various streaming support engines (they use WinMediaPlayer, WinAmp, Live368, etc.)... I'll be on from 5pm to about 7pm EST.

Just wanted everyone to know. Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL, USA
Sunday, April 18, 2004 04:27:58 AM
IP: 24.164.32.253

The Tom & Brooklyn issue from last week>
I haven't been able to post much recently. End of my last undergraduate semester!
However, I want to clarify some ideas that I have miscommunicated concerning Brook's feelings toward Tom. I do not think that Brooklyn is love starved in the tenth century. I do think that he likes befriending people, including(especially?) children like Tom. A good analogy for him may be a teenager that takes the children on the block under his wing. A camp councillor) type, or a patrol leader in Boy Scouts.
The contrast between this personality and the viscious beast he resembles to the uninitiated has always intrigued me...and made me feel so much for poor Brooklyn.

Demona and morals> I think Demona knows about morality: think about how her younger self reacted to her older self in "Vows." She just chooses to discard many of her morals as she grew "wiser."

Morals and other species> This brings to mind something Issac Asimov IIRC said about the morality of experimenting on chimps. To paraphrase, it is moral until the chimps ask us to stop. In this view, it is the ability of an animal to reason abstractly -- at a human level -- that determines whether it is moral to kill that animal as humanely as possible.

Now, look at humans from a gargoyle's POV:
As a garg, I say that the hairless primates think almost like we do, as evidenced from their use of language and, more importantly, from their expressions of ideals and standards of behavior. The primates are not bears or bulls who cannot understand morality, who cannot conduct themselves in a civilized manner.

My rookery brethern, do not be shocked. I claimed that some humans do behave morally and can learn to coexist with us in a manner beneficial to both species. Look at them: they are quite like us, even if not perfectly so. Exterminating this human species would be like exterminating an entire race of gargoyles.

JJ Gregarius
Orlando, FL
Sunday, April 18, 2004 02:31:53 AM
IP: 65.244.168.84

I have been reading your 'Ask Greg' Archives for the past two hour and it is practically a Gargoyles Encyclopedia. Most Diehard Star Trek Fan Guides don't have even close to this amount of material this website has.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Friday, April 16, 2004 01:33:59 AM
IP: 68.159.211.104

Since this is not a question, it does not belong in the 'Ask Greg' section.

If you are reading this Mr. Weisman. I think a very simple (and cheap), but GOOD, 'extras' for the Gargoyles Season 1 DVD Boxset would be a "Best Of 'Ask Greg'" comments from your 'Ask Greg' Archives.

Also, anyone who buys that Boxset and sees the Gargoyles series for the first time is going to have questions and this will save you the time and effort of having too answer the same questions over and over again to the many new fans.

And a link to the Station 8 website would be a good idea also.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Friday, April 16, 2004 01:31:17 AM
IP: 68.159.211.104

Okay, Vertigo1. But if that happened, stock in umbrella companies would go up. ;)
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Friday, April 16, 2004 01:21:10 AM
IP: 68.159.211.104

Paul, incase you couldn't tell, that was a joke. ;) Lighten up man.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Friday, April 16, 2004 12:57:38 AM
IP: 207.65.41.143

Denis > Did you mail it to the U.S. address, or the Canadian one? Either way, we only get to the post office to check the box once a week, and you'll get an e-mail confirmation when it arrives.
Patrick
Thursday, April 15, 2004 08:41:26 PM
IP: 65.43.155.46

Patrick> "Cent-trieze jours jusqu'au le Gathering 2004 en Montréal, Québec." I may be wrong, but I believe it's "a" and not "en" Montreal. And you should take out the "le" if you're gonna use "jusqu'au". I guess I should leave the corrections to Denis, unless these inconsistencies are actually Quebequois. ;)

Denis> Felicitations!

Vash
Thursday, April 15, 2004 05:59:51 PM
IP: 129.98.125.57

Vertigo1, let's not go there.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Thursday, April 15, 2004 05:53:35 PM
IP: 68.159.211.104

[I always figured they went to the bathroom off camera like everyone else on TV shows. But I can see if that's how they deal with the issue during stone sleep....] - CKayote

Just be glad that they don't drop a "gift" in mid-flight. :P I don't think New Yorkers would take kindly to getting a load dropped on them from above. Say, that might be why Castaway was suck a jerk. ;)

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Thursday, April 15, 2004 05:23:12 PM
IP: 207.65.41.165

hello!

I've got my tickets! to Montreal! yeeeppeeeee!

Patrick, has my payment and registration arrived yet?

This Gathering will be a blast. I know know, I've got the feeling it'll be great!

Denis - [d.deplaen@lft.be]
Thursday, April 15, 2004 01:17:08 PM
IP: 81.241.207.77

Personally, I think Demona needs to be Scrooged, perhaps by the Fay. Puck and baby Alex play Past, The Weird Sisters play Present and they get Anubis to play Future, considering Anubis is one the Gods of Death and 'Does not play favorites', but since Demona is immortal (and techically out of his reach), I think he might do it just to help her out as an act of mercy.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Thursday, April 15, 2004 12:40:59 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Battle Beast: You Wrote: [I don't think Demona knows what moral actually are. then again, maybe she does.]

Demona has done a lot of bad things, but she has taken more than she has given. She has been alone and hunted like an animal for almost 900 years. This has caused her some serious deep mental scars.

She might go completely looney toons if she learned how her scarring of a little boy lead to her to be hunted by the 'Hunters' for almost 900 years.

If she were not as crazy as she was, she could solve this problem real easily by capturing the current Hunters, explaining the Weird Sisters spell put on her and how it was futile to try and kill her. It may take a couple of times 'killing' her to prove her point, but it would work.

Now Demona does have a heart, her maternal feelings towards Angela proves that. The problem is the she does not know how to use it. This is why she is keeps trying to trick Angela into joining her through force and violence.

Personally, I think Demona needs to be Scrooged, perhaps by the Fay. Puck and baby Alex play Past, The Weird Sisters play Present and they get Anubis to play Future, considering Anubis is one the Gods of Death and 'Does not play favorites', but Demona since is immortal (an techically out of his reach), I think he might do it just to help her out of mercy.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Thursday, April 15, 2004 12:39:59 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

"It occurs to me that it may follow from conventional moralizing that she is not compelled to abstain from doing anyone violence unless they're a gargoyle."

This seems an awfully dubious bit of moral positioning. Substitute the name of any race or ethinic group for "gargoyle" in that statement, and you've justified the same thinking that led to the deaths of untold millions in the 1930s and 40s.

Cent-trieze jours jusqu'au le Gathering 2004 en Montréal, Québec.

For you anglophones, that's...

113 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!

Patrick
Thursday, April 15, 2004 12:36:33 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Punchinello> "Does Demona even have a moral obligation to not kill human beings? ... It occurs to me that it may follow from conventional moralizing that she is not compelled to abstain from doing anyone violence unless they're a gargoyle."

Demona kills because humans are her scapegoat. She has been trouble for a millenium and her only way to vent all her pent up anger is to release on humans.

DEMONA was responsable (in part but she played a big part) for the attck on Wyvern. She can't see that it was mainly her fault. She can only see that the outcome of the deal she made was NOT what she wanted to see happen. She blames the humans for the wrong outcome.

In this way, Demona stays mad at herself for the failed out come. Haakon and the Captain of the gaurd died, so she had NO ONE to take revenge on. Thus, she goes after all humans with the mentality that "all humbns are one in the same." This is not true.

After 1,000 years of getting even with humnas, it comes naturally to Demona. Like the Weird Sisters said, Demona is tried of fighting. Her only trouble is that there are Hunters constantly fueling her fire.

This too leads her to belive that she is being betrayed by the humans. (Remember, Demona doesn't remember that it's also her fault she is being hunted.)

Does Demona have a Moral Obligation NOT to kill humans? Oh no. Demona has no Morals. Her only obligation is to protect GARGOYLES who will be loyal GARGOYLES and not humans. That is why she dislikes Goliath and his clan. They like humans.

Demona soesn't abstain from anything; she does what she wants to do. Demona is violent no matter what she does. She'll only abstain from violence if it suits her latest plan. (such as marrying MacBeth. She had to abstain from killing him for a long time in order to get what she wanted.)

Everyone has a moral obligation not to kill but the wrong kind of people do anyway (murderers, I mean, not eveyday good people.)

I don't think Demona knows what moral actually are. then again, maybe she does.

*whew*

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaThursday, April 15, 2004 10:59:40 AM
IP: 142.179.227.73

Relax Punchinello, I saved text copies of the last couple of discussions. Just e-mail me and I will send you text attachments of those discussions in a couple of days.

Paul Cousins - [paul_cousins@bellsouth.net]
GA , USA
Thursday, April 15, 2004 04:01:36 AM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Hello.

I kind of lost track of the Demona exchange, and I probably won't have time to really contribute anything further for a week at least. I'm far too busy right now. I feel bad because I see that even Greg Weisman became involved. I would have liked to continue that exchange with him. And Ellen and Jensen submitted some things I really wanted to respond to. I'll try to get back to that next week if anyone is still interested in the exchange that was going on.

Here's an interesting thought to leave you with though.

Does Demona even have a moral obligation to not kill human beings? I'd argue she does, but my argument does not follow from the way moral investments are usually constructed with reference to those outside your species. It occurs to me that it may follow from conventional moralizing that she is not compelled to abstain from doing anyone violence unless they're a gargoyle.

Just a thought. Until later.

Punchinello
Rome, Italy
Thursday, April 15, 2004 03:32:57 AM
IP: 217.220.252.145

CKayote: You Wrote [I was trying to refer to "Demona's temperment a day after "The Mirrior" ". That's what I thought was funny. Sorry if it that didn't come off.]

Okay. The last half of you previous post threw me.

No problem.

Also, if you guys ever post a fanfic challenge about this, just e-mail me the mailing list (and website) you post the fanfic challenge too so I can join in and get a good laugh too.

Paul Cousins - [paul_cousins@bellsouth.net]
GA, USA
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 11:12:57 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Paul: I was trying to refer to "Demona's temperment a day after "The Mirrior" ". That's what I thought was funny. Sorry if it that didn't come off.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:53:39 PM
IP: 132.170.34.118

Patrick: You Wrote:[Up until Zephram Cochrane slipping off to the woods in "First Contact," we never saw anyone on "Star Trek" use the bathroom, either. And they somehow took showers without water, too. You see... in TV land, not everything needs to be fully explained.]

Well we know that there is sex, off-screen, during the course of the series, the birth of Alexander Xanatos proves that. So I am going to out on a limp and say the rest probably happens in the Gargoyles series, though off-screen.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 09:38:09 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Up until Zephram Cochrane slipping off to the woods in "First Contact," we never saw anyone on "Star Trek" use the bathroom, either. And they somehow took showers without water, too. You see... in TV land, not everything needs to be fully explained.

114 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!

Patrick
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 08:32:28 PM
IP: 65.43.155.46

Todd Jensen: You Wrote[Let's just be glad that Owen doesn't have to follow Bronx all around the castle at night with a pooper-scooper in his good hand.]

Well Bronx is fairly more intelligent when compared to dogs, I would think he would be house trained.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 07:21:01 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Let's just be glad that Owen doesn't have to follow Bronx all around the castle at night with a pooper-scooper in his good hand.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 07:08:42 PM
IP: 4.244.12.214

CKayote You Wrote:[Paul: That's a very funny idea.]

I am glad you think that, but it would be funnier if it dealt with Demona.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 06:41:21 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Paul: That's a very funny idea.

I always figured they went to the bathroom off camera like everyone else on TV shows. But I can see if that's how they deal with the issue during stone sleep....

But I imagine they had to learn quite a bit about hygene.
And I imagine that it fell to Owen to teach them.
"The gargoyles smell, Owen. I want them bathed."
"Yes, Mr.Xanatos."

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:47:58 PM
IP: 132.170.34.118

James_Anatidae You Wrote:[Thats an interesting idea, might just steal that idea for myself. :) I've always thought the old redhead might turn to liquid courage after her daughter told her that she hated her. It seemed that and nearly killing the entire Gargoyle race might be the straw that broke her.]

I always figured that Demona was too strong willed, and paranoid, to use a drug for just pleasure. But it is very possible she might use a drug to deal with the pain of the transformations.

Though, if she ever learned about the limits placed on Owen in "The Gathering", she might be tempted to kidnap him and torture the information needed for her to get rid of the pain.

But now since she has co-created and sole runs NightStone, even though she still hates humans, she would not want to get rid of human form because it would then be much more difficult to run NightStone.

On a side note, I think Puck, though a trickster, is actually a nice guy and he choose to make Demona a human during the day so that it might sink in for her that humans are not really that bad.

I wonder if the pain might be tied to her hatred of humanity. If she stopped hating humanity, (not necessarily start loving it, just stop hating it,) the pain might stop.

Now there is an interesting fanfic idea.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:45:47 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Thats an interesting idea, might just steal that idea for myself. :) I've always thought the old redhead might turn to liquid courage after her daughter told her that she hated her. It seemed that and nearly killing the entire Gargoyle race might be the straw that broke her.
james_anatidae - [james_anatidae@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 04:44:16 AM
IP: 206.74.232.135

To change the subject slightly. Given Demona's tranformations at sunrise and sunset are very painful, it would give rise to the possiblity that Demona may someday start to use pain killers to relieve some of the pain; and possibly become a drug addict in the same manner as someone with severe chronic pain.

This would make a very interesting fanfic plot, or subplot.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 03:43:29 AM
IP: 68.220.2.112

But I would NOT touch that fanfic idea with a ten foot pool.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 01:26:01 AM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Greg Bishansky You Wrote [Yeah, I've wondered about Demona's first twenty-four hours right after "The Mirror" ended as well.]

[Hmm, that might make a good fanfic challenge. Any fic writers out there want to take it up?]

A fanfic challenge like that would produce crude fanfics in the humor department.

We could go further and see Demona about three weeks after 'The Mirrior'.

But I would touch that fanfic idea with a ten foot pool.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 01:24:32 AM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Yeah, I've wondered about Demona's first twenty-four hours right after "The Mirror" ended as well.

Hmm, that might make a good fanfic challenge. Any fic writers out there want to take it up?

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:09:35 AM
IP: 216.179.3.105

Battle Beast You Wrote: [I asked Greg once how Gargoyles "Go to the bathroom," and he replied that waste is excreted through the stone skin, IE, all materials are collected in "sleep" and when the skin is shed, there goes the "waste."]

Okay.

Could you imagine Demona's temperment a day after "The Mirrior"?

Please don't flame me, someone had to bring her up about this subject.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 05:08:37 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Patrick> Jeffrey Robbin's observation that Hudson smelled of "old leather and concrete" may not be canon since it was part of the Goliath Chronicles... furthermore, i would think that it was Hudson's clothing and armor that would give more of the smell of old leather, rather than Hudson himself... and i have no idea why a gargoyle would smell like concrete... i personally hope this observation isn't canon...
matt
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 12:15:40 PM
IP: 207.230.48.69

I asked Greg once how Gargoyles "Go to the bathroom," and he replied that waste is excreted through the stone skin, IE, all materials are collected in "sleep" and when the skin is shed, there goes the "waste."

>That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaTuesday, April 13, 2004 11:20:39 AM
IP: 142.179.227.73

Since we don't have smellivision, we can only trust Jeffery Robbins' word that a gargoyle who's just shed his stone skin has the fresh scent of "old leather and concrete." :P

18 days left before Gathering 2004 pre-registration prices increase.
19 days left to submit entries for the Gathering T-shirt contest (deadline is May 1).
80 days left to submit entries for the Music Video contest (deadline is July 1).
85 days left to reserve your hotel room at the Delta Centre-Ville (deadline is July 6 at noon).

115 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!

Patrick
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 07:00:59 AM
IP: 65.43.155.46

But about them see while their eyes are glowing, even I am not sure.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 02:31:50 AM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Vertigo1 You Wrote: [You know, I've always wondered that myself...]

I am glad I am not the only one who is wondering that.

[I've also wondered how they're able to see when their eyes glow. By all rights, they shouldn't be able to.]

I always figured it was a chemical reaction, probably a gland that was inside the eye itself; sort of like the chemical reaction a firefly has to light it's backside.
Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 01:35:29 AM
IP: 68.220.2.112

You know, I've always wondered that myself...

I've also wondered how they're able to see when their eyes glow. By all rights, they shouldn't be able to.

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Monday, April 12, 2004 11:24:33 PM
IP: 65.119.228.220

How about different to talk about than last week.

I am sure in the last sevens years this has been asked before. But I always wondered, does the braking/flaking away of the stone skin at sunset for the Gargoyles act as a hygene method of clean themselves clean? IE, do they need to take a bath to remean clean?

I mean, European Middle Age cultures were not that high up on hygene and taking baths.

Paul Cousins
GA, USA
Monday, April 12, 2004 05:05:07 PM
IP: 68.220.2.112

Wow... that was some discussion last week, I'm sorry I missed it. Have been busy with work and uni stuff lately - including trips to our own viking sites.

Sheltie
Shetland, UK
Monday, April 12, 2004 04:24:57 PM
IP: 213.122.116.241

Dang. I just missed it. :( Oh well.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, April 12, 2004 11:09:01 AM
IP: 142.179.227.73

10th.
Leo
Monday, April 12, 2004 09:55:57 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

ABBY - Thanks! It was a good birthday! ^_^

9th!

Maintain and Check Six!

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL, USA
Monday, April 12, 2004 09:35:22 AM
IP: 24.164.32.253

8th
Babs
Monday, April 12, 2004 09:08:21 AM
IP: 68.80.222.40

Lucky number 7.

I see I missed a very interesting discussion last week about Demona and Goliath's roles in the Wyvern Massacre. As others noted, it is a testimony to the quality of the show that such discussions continue years after the show originally aired.

Stephen R. Sobotka Jr.>>Happy belated birthday.
Abby
Minneapolis, MN
Monday, April 12, 2004 09:04:10 AM
IP: 161.225.1.12

6th, I hope.
Graymonk - [mmckinnongra@hotmail.com]
Monday, April 12, 2004 08:23:27 AM
IP: 156.34.238.34

::De-lurks long enough to particiapte in Top 10::
5! The glass is now half-full :D

Chameleon
Monday, April 12, 2004 07:23:26 AM
IP: 203.220.175.232

"A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."
Thus, I enter 4th because that's exactly the number I wanted.

Peace

Z
Monday, April 12, 2004 12:41:09 AM
IP: 67.67.114.123

3rd
zess
Monday, April 12, 2004 12:34:51 AM
IP: 63.150.32.146

2
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Monday, April 12, 2004 12:09:14 AM
IP: 132.170.35.158

#1!!!!!!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, April 12, 2004 12:00:52 AM
IP: 67.14.195.44