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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending January 17, 2005

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<< Of course, who says that the gargoyles would allow themselves to be studied like that. Perhaps if trustworthy people suggested it...? >>

"Goliath, I'd like you to meet someone." Fox Xanatos gestured to the man in khaki shorts who stood beside her, wide-eyed. "This is Mr. Irwin. He's come from Australia to study the clan and make a documentary for Pack Media to educate the public about gargoyles."

"Crikey!" the man exclaimed, astonished. "You weren't kidding, sheila. Check out that wingspan!" He turned, eyeing Angela, who stood beside her father. "And a female, too. Excellent! I'm hopin' I'll get to see some mating behaviour!"

Goliath sighed. "I can see this is going to be a long night..."

Patrick
Sunday, January 16, 2005 08:17:01 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Sorry for the double post, but - the recent mention of E--n P-x reminds me of my suspicion that Goliath's going after E--n in a murderous rage was one part of "To Serve Mankind" that was believable, even if nothing else was - believable, because after hearing the man's name repeated ad nauseum, the audience felt like doing the same thing!
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, January 16, 2005 06:47:27 PM
IP: 4.244.12.46

I still think that Disney would *have* to ignore the Goliath Chronicles to bring back the series, simply because "Angels in the Night" didn't leave much room for continuation; it closed doors but didn't open any. (Not too surprising, since it was supposed to be a series finale.) The previous season finales ("Re-Awakening" and "Hunter's Moon") *opened* doors, or at least, left them open - "Re-Awakening" with the gargoyles taking up crimefighting, "Hunter's Moon" with the gargoyles' secret being exposed, Jon Canmore going insane and vowing to continue the hunt, the gargoyles being back with Xanatos with the question of whether he could be trusted, etc.

As for the revival being a spin-off rather than a direct continuation - that could probably be the case even without the Goliath Chronicles. Many times, the best way of blowing new life into a series is to pass the torch to a new set of protagonists and let the old set quietly retire. And, of course, the series title is merely "Gargoyles". It doesn't specify *which* gargoyles.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, January 16, 2005 06:45:05 PM
IP: 4.244.12.46

Matt: *shudders* yeah your right, everytime that episode comes on i cast a hex spell on my tv. I can see why goliath would get brainwashed.
Dan - [enki@inbox.lv]
Sunday, January 16, 2005 05:56:44 PM
IP: 68.42.18.157

The Name>> There! Now've you've awaken a sleeping lion! :-P

Gantros>> I'd like to agree with you that the human-like intelligence of gargoyles would be self-evident under close observation, but I am not certain that they would be granted the same civil rights humans enjoy quite so easily, considering xenophobia and all of the aspects you mentioned. Could gargoyles wind up being treated as humans who cannot control their own violent impulses?

Of course, who says that the gargoyles would allow themselves to be studied like that. Perhaps if trustworthy people suggested it...?

---

While this train of thought was inspired by dealing with TGC, I still think that the series would have to deal with humans learning to live with gargoyles even without those bizarre eps. Now, I don't want some over-sentimental, easy, unabashed acceptance of gargoyles. I would be irked, though, if there weren't pockets of humanity that showed some *small* level of gratitude and thoughtfulness towards gargoyles, even if that means capturing them "for their own good," or similar well-intentioned nonsense.

---

I just realized: we haven't even gone into the London situation yet! They've dealt with humanity by running a store under a flimsy disguise. Just imagine the situation they would be in post "Hunter's Moon." (or post "MIA" for that matter)

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Sunday, January 16, 2005 04:42:38 PM
IP: 4.247.164.163

Leo> its bad enough his name was even mentioned in here, please don't use it as your own name, thats just sad!
matt
Sunday, January 16, 2005 04:39:25 PM
IP: 68.92.88.73

Season 3 was dabomb! It was best season. Much moor akshion! Nun of that boaring sope opra world toor crap.
Egon Pax
Sunday, January 16, 2005 04:35:10 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Greg B, I'm not smoking anything.

It may have been crap but I thought that this was a free room and that everyone could have their say in it, regardless of how far-fetched that might seem.

However, even you can't admit there are certain, albeit miniscule, similarities between Season 3 and Season 1, if not I suggest you re-read my previous post and yes, there were some character development in Season 3 even if certain individuals won't realize it.

To quote Battlebeast, "This is all I will say"

Matt Fews
Sunday, January 16, 2005 04:24:13 PM
IP: 69.156.121.177

Vinnie:> AAAAAAAAA! You said the name!!
Leo
Sunday, January 16, 2005 03:17:41 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

DPH:<Shut your trap. Your efforts at blending in aren't quite working.> Talk about being sensitive. You must possess a secret fear that the shows continuity will reboot.

Todd Jensen:<That was unnecessarily rude.> Let him rant! He's only hurting himself.

matt:<i think its E**n P*x actually...> Ssshhh! No one wants to that bring up again. Let the name Egon Pax be fogotten to history, along side the doctor who made him infamous.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Sunday, January 16, 2005 02:09:48 PM
IP: 64.112.203.208

MATT FEWS> TGC LIKE SEASON ONE????????? What ever the hell you're smoking, I'd recommend you stop. It's not good?

Character development in TGC? What character development? They just hit the magic reset button at the end of each episode, no one changed or learned anything or grew through the course of the series.

And where are you getting that Greg wasn't in full control during season one? He had just as much control in season one as he did in season two. No need to make up facts.

I literally had a violent twitch when I read your post comparing TGC to season one. It's like comparing an oil painting to a three year old's crayon picture. TGC was crap, unredeemable crap that even flies would go no where near.

And yes, I think Greg can easily and safely ignore it. If Disney tells him it's canon, he can just smile and nod and do his own thing anyway, I doubt anyone else there is as familiar enough with the property to really notice if Castaway is not in prison, and if Margot is still a bitch and if no one ever mentions anything about a train rescue, or even if Thailog and the clones are still alive and well.

If any new fans are confused, that's what the internet and DVD audio commentaries are for. They can easily find out. But you know what, I doubt they'll care. Every non-fandom fan I've ever met (people who liked the show but aren't hardcore about it) hated TGC.

So I'm confident, and willing to bet money that if Gargoyles ever comes back, Greg will just do his own thing.

::shakes head and mutters:: compared season one to TGC.

Greg Bishansky
Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:24:30 PM
IP: 162.84.130.8

i think its E**n P*x actually...
matt
Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:04:03 PM
IP: 68.92.88.73

He-Who-Must-Not-be-Named? Who is that anyway, Eisner? *GASP*

The Golden Globes are tonight. I should have my website updated tonight or tomorrow... (I'm a movie nut... what can I say.)

www.geocities.com/oscarmovs

Shameless self promotion, I know...

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaSunday, January 16, 2005 11:41:44 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

I guess I'm more of a "cross that bridge when we come to it" mindset here. I'd rather worry about what the fandom can do to help Greg get a chance to reprise the series than debate endlessly about what might happen when he does. In the end, that's going to be something Greg and the powers that be at Disney will work out amongst themselves.

Likewise, I could go on for days nitpicking "The Goliath Chronicles" and disecting the logic (or lack thereof) in the plots of those last twelve episodes sans Weisman... but that's another topic that's been talked to death. And besides... the longer the discussion goes on, the more likely someone is to mention He-Who-Must-Not-be-Named. :P

193 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Sunday, January 16, 2005 10:59:00 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

DPH> the only thing not blending into the Comment Room that i see was that comment. if you've had problems with him in the past or whatever, most of us could care less. take it up with him personally. he said nothing outside the context of the conversation, and certaintly nothing worth becoming angry about. i think you should apologize to him and to the whole Comment Room for your behavior.

TGC> the way i have always seen it, is that TGC is a problem that is going to be difficult to handle realistically. most of us want to pretend it never happened. Disney probably wants to insist that it did. uninformed fans will be confused if it is totally ignored. the best solution i can see to thise (not to mention the ten year time lapse) would just be to start a spinoff series instead. if Dark Ages was created, TGC becomes a non-issue, and 2198 is so far in the future that the fans can decide whether TGC happened in their minds or not. even Bad Guys, Pendragon and Timedancer would work much better than Gargoyles. these series can occasionally touch on whats going on in NY without focusing the series on it, thus TGC can be largely ignored by those who want to ignore it and a non-issue to those who think it should remain. so, i'm all for spinoffs instead of the original series, yes i want to see old story lines keep going, but new story lines will be cool too, and they'd solve the time lapse problem, TGC problem and new fans to the series problem altogether.

matt
Sunday, January 16, 2005 09:29:48 AM
IP: 68.92.88.73

To the Room especially Greg B.

TGC Vs Season 1, They both are somewhat similar since Greg wasn't fully in control until Season 2 and they both were basically about character development.

Ransom, Thrill of the Hunt: Lex
Runaways, Temptation: Brooklyn
B goes to Hollywood, Deadly Force: Broadway
Bronx Tale, Enter Macbeth: Bronx
For it May Come, The Edge: Goliath
The Dying of the Light, Long Way Til Morning: Hudson
Angels in The Night, Reawakening.

Need I say more.

Matt Fews
Sunday, January 16, 2005 09:05:35 AM
IP: 64.228.204.171

DPH - That was unnecessarily rude.

I think that the real problem with continuing the anti-gargoyle prejudice theme past "Angels in the Night" was that the Goliath Chronicles had focused on it so heavily and monotonously that the audience would be feeling bored with it. Not to mention that you'd have to create a whole bunch of new characters to express the "let's lock them up" sentiments since Margot had changed for the better at the end of "Angels in the Night" and Castaway would be behind bars for a good long time (and even if he did get broken out, would now have too much of a criminal reputation to participate in the debate unless he changed his name and adopted a whole new look again).

I don't think that Disney could seriously consider rebooting the continuity of the series from scratch (if that's what you're trying to say, Vinnie). It's the sort of concept that works better for animated series based on the comics (such as Batman or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) than for an animated series "based on itself". Coming up with an entirely new continuity for "Gargoyles" would only alienate or bewilder the original fans.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, January 16, 2005 07:50:51 AM
IP: 4.244.12.15

Vinnie - Shut your trap. Your efforts at blending in aren't quite working.
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, January 16, 2005 04:19:57 AM
IP: 67.14.195.27

Gantros:<To take it into context, it is believed by some that Modern Humans were directly responsible for the extinction of Neandertals, whether by violence or disease is unknown.> Then again some scientists argue that Neandertals are the same species as humans, especially if you avoid using artistic license in the reconstruction of their bones.

To The Room: What if Disney gets mad at Greg W. for refusing to include TGC and makes him start over again on the series from begining as revenge. That would be an intersting problem.

Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Sunday, January 16, 2005 04:06:49 AM
IP: 64.112.202.146

Matt Fews>> The primary problem with expanding on "For it May Come True" is that it's a dream sequence. Expanding on it would be like adding a season 8b to Dallas or breaking up "Future Tense." If it's ultimately going to be discarded other than *maybe* advancing a character's perceptions of him/herself and the world, it's really pointless.

And, as Todd has been saying, the finality of "Angels in the Night" was such a nail in the coffin for so many themes of the show that going past it would really create an uninteresting show. I'm with GB on this - if Greg gets the project back at some point, let him do all he can to avoid addressing TGC. It's not so much about the quality of the episodes (for me, though that's not by any means an endorsement) as much as that the were distracting from the themes of Gargoyles in the first two seasons.

I'd rather not see them continued, much less expanded.

Alex Garg
VA, USA
Sunday, January 16, 2005 01:25:34 AM
IP: 216.145.68.246

Gregarius> This argument (the captive study and release into the wild) was somewhat addressed in "The Journey" when Margot suggested the very same thing, to which MacBeth replied "Yes, all the comforts, provided they don't value their freedom,". It would take a group of grossly ignorant and/or indifferent people to assume that after any study, determine that gargoyles are simply animals that mimic human behavior, and not truly sentient beings.

Of course, they may have their results/opinions twisted for political/religious purposes. It would shake a lot of human institutions to the foundations if it was revealed that humans are not the only sentient that evolved on the planet, and that humans decimated another race nearly to extinction. To take it into context, it is believed by some that Modern Humans were directly responsible for the extinction of Neandertals, whether by violence or disease is unknown.

It's not surprising why some groups would feel threatened by this blow to their need for superiority, and take steps to maintain that personal view of superiority.
Gantros
Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:43:19 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

MATT FEWS> When you expand garbage all you get is even more garbage. I literally had a vain throb as I read that. I hate TGC. I despise it with a passion. The last thing I want is more of it.

Those episodes were terrible, had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I'd rather have my teeth pulled than ever sit through any of them again... let alone have them expanded on.

Just let Greg tell the stories he wants and as he sees them than have him expand upon something that he hates and brings him pain. TGC was a very painful thing for him, and I would never wish upon him the misfortune of having to expand those "stories".

Greg Bishansky
Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:40:45 AM
IP: 162.84.130.8

"I always liked my idea of the entire TGC series (excluding "The Journey") rewinding at a super-fast speed, and then Puck floats onto the screen and says "Gotcha", and then the opening credits start." - Lord GargFan

Lucky for me, I wasn't drinking anything when I read that, or it would've gone all over my monitor and keyboard. :D

As for TGC, it could easily be written off as something Goliath made up, or a story entirely made up by someone that had an experience sometime in the past with the Gargs. (or someone that knew about them, but hadn't met them for one reason or another.) You can't just TOTALLY ignore it like it never happened, because you'll have fans that don't know about its canonical status go "wtf?!".

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Sunday, January 16, 2005 12:29:42 AM
IP: 207.65.41.154

Anti-"All lived happily ever after">>
I'd have to see the final episode again, but I'm not sure that one heroic incident is enough to prove that gargoyles are good. Simply have Demona or Thailog openly do something heinous (use your imagination), and factor in the violent incidents involving gargoyles and gargoyle-like robots (maybe people will think that they were gargoyles after all ;-) ) throughout the series. Things become quite murky.

Maybe some gargoyles help sometimes, some will argue, but they have also shown themselves to be dangerous menaces. Does the good they do outweigh the bad? Are some gargs good, and others bad, or do gargoyles' attitudes towards human society change erratically from one day to another?

These people may consider gargoyles to be dangerous sub-human animals that have become accustomed to humans. Then, they should be treated as such: they should be captured and cared for and studied by qualified experts. The experts can determine if the gargoyles can be released into the wild somewhere without bothering people (as unlikely as it may seem), or if the gargoyles must be kept in captivity or under close supervision, for the good of gargoyle and human alike.

I can see widespread support for this sentiment. Do you think Goliath would stand for it?

Brooklyn and Humans>>
Matt, compare Brooklyn's encounter with Mary in Awakenings I and his biker encounter in Temptation to Lex's first encounter with the Pack. At least Lex gives the humans he meets some space and addresses his unique appearance. Brooklyn almost jumps in Mary's face, and, when meeting the gang, decides to take off his helmet without warning. (Why the gang didn't notice he wasn't human before he took off the helmet is beyond me. Dramatic license?)

I do agree that Brooklyn must realize *intellectually* that his appearance frightens the uninitiated. It appears, though, that in his early encounters with humans he doesn't think about that.

As you said, he is learning.

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:52:00 PM
IP: 4.247.206.56

I agree with Todd. Leave TGC out of it. Even the whole train scene was a little too cliche for Gargoyles.

Watching Spiderman 2 the other day, the whole fight scene on the train reminded me of TGC :P "We won't tell anyone." Yeah right! Till the Sun comes around and offers cold hard cash, like they did for the Nazi Prince Harry photo, LOL. Too too cliche and laughable.


Siren
Saturday, January 15, 2005 10:45:40 PM
IP: 67.8.164.224

Todd, maybe turning each into a multi-part episode.

Genesis Undone part 1 could the reintroduction of the Clones and Mutates while part 2 could be the Lil Anton fight and part 3 could be the destruction of Thailog and the Clones and the lament of the NY clan with their loss.

For it May Come True could offer a lot more about Goliath's human side like his wedding to Elisa and the birth of his kids and not have any of the latter as flashbacks or maybe what if the entire clan were human, not just Goliath, maybe showing how each clan member reacted to Titania's prophecy.

Seeing is Believing could have had more emphasis on Taurus' arrival in New York and quite possibly more on Proteus as well.

Matt Fews
Saturday, January 15, 2005 09:05:33 PM
IP: 67.68.73.214

I don't know; that sounds a little too comedic to me.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, January 15, 2005 08:49:53 PM
IP: 4.244.18.119

I always liked my idea of the entire TGC series (excluding "The Journey") rewinding at a super-fast speed, and then Puck floats onto the screen and says "Gotcha", and then the opening credits start.
Lord GargFan
Saturday, January 15, 2005 08:36:49 PM
IP: 24.11.252.213

MATT - Could you please explain what you mean by "expanding"?

And as I said before, I honestly think that, in order to be able to continue the series, you'd *have* to ignore the Goliath Chronicles because the ending of "Angels in the Night" is far too "they lived happily ever after" to allow for a meaningful continuation. (See my reasons for that below.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, January 15, 2005 06:40:19 PM
IP: 4.244.18.252

Greg B, so do I, but if he had been in charge of those particular episodes, which I might add brought some depth to TGC, he might have also wanted to expand on them.

Who knows, maybe with the release of the DVD in November, Father of the Pride might follow in Family Guy's footstepw, It was released on DVD and as a result will be getting new Episodes this year, which will be revealed by clicking on my name.

Matt Fews
Saturday, January 15, 2005 06:07:42 PM
IP: 67.68.73.214

MATT FEWS> We don't need to expand on the material, we need to ignore it and forget it even existed.

Personally, I think Greg could continue the series as he sees fit. I doubt the Disney Higher-Ups are as familiar with the material as he is, so even if they outright say "you must acknowledge TGC", he could smile and nod, and do his own thing anyway... kinda like the second time he pitched Gargoyles and Eisner said no, and Katzenberg told them to just change the material. He didn't change anything, just the pitch, did hiw own thing anyway so Eisner bought it and Katzenberg said "you added a lot to that didn't you" (when Greg in fact trimmed it down) and Greg said "yes I did."

Greg knows what he wants and what we want. I trust him.

Greg Bishansky
Saturday, January 15, 2005 12:33:19 PM
IP: 162.84.130.8

Todd, we don't necessarily have to ignore TGC but expand on it. Primarily the episodes Genesis Undone, For it May Come True and Seeing is Believing or at least their plot-lines.

As for FOTP, I was kind of hoping it would last at least 2 seasons, but hey, at least I'll have the DVD in November, and until then I was lucky to get all but 3 episodes of it on tape.

Matt Fews
Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:14:33 AM
IP: 67.71.158.109

First Episode of New Season of "Gargoyles"
Act One, Scene One

<We see a series of clips from episodes of the "Goliath Chronicles", excluding "The Journey". The cuts become prgressively faster until...>

<Cut to Goliath awakening. Elisa is standing nearby. The other gargs yawn, stretch, and go about their business. Goliath puts his hand to his forehead.>

Elisa: Goliath? You okay?

Goliath: Elisa, I had the strangest dream...

Elisa: What was it?

Goliath: I...can't quite remember. (turns to Elisa) Where were we?

<Elisa recounts the events of "The Journey".>

Goliath: Right.

---------------------------

There ya go. Problem solved.

Demonskrye - [<--Jim Hill Media]
Saturday, January 15, 2005 08:27:19 AM
IP: 146.115.115.131

I think that, in order to bring "Gargoyles" back (unless it was a spin-off set in the same universe with a new set of protagonists) you'd *have* to ignore the Goliath Chronicles, because of how they ended. After "Angels in the Night", there's likely to be barely any story, since the big conflict between gargoyles and humans is over.

I know that it would take more than saving a passenger train to completely dispel prejudice, but I also believe that after that event, anti-gargoyle prejudice would no longer take on the form of violent confrontation of the sort that we saw in the Goliath Chronicles. For a start, Castaway and practically all of the Quarrymen would be in jail for attacking the train and endangering the lives of its passengers for a good long time; even if they got somehow broken out, they could no longer pose as "defenders of the community", any more than the Pack could pose as heroes after Fox held the fashion model hostage and Jackal and Hyena tried to steal the Coyote Diamond and assassinate Xanatos. The likelihood of anyone new coming along and setting up a fresh anti-gargoyle hate group (of the sort that would be armed and be fighting gargoyles) would be small (and I'd consider it bad writing to just come up with a frantic Castaway-substitute who might not have as interesting and dramatically effective a motivation for hating gargoyles as Castaway - under the "Castaway = Jon Canmore scenario" - has). Prejudice would still be around, I believe, but I don't think that the people suffering from it would be trying to kill the gargoyles or fight them any more. It'd be more a tone of "I wouldn't want to have one over for dinner" than one of "Let's smash some stone!"

Since "Gargoyles" is, first and foremost, an adventure series, it'd have to focus on direct physical dangers to the gargoyles' lives and liberty over the more subtle civil rights issues that would take up the "second stage"; I honestly don't think that most of the audience would be as interested in seeing the gargoyles facing housing and job discrimination or segregated schooling as they would in seeing the gargoyles facing Hunters or Quarrymen. At best, it would have to be a background sub-plot.

Also, there's the issue of what to do about Demona. Once the serious danger of the gargoyles being killed or locked up by humanity in general (as opposed to a small group of "bad guys" such as the Pack, say) recedes, and humans have come to tolerate the gargoyles, Demona becomes almost an anachronism; it would be harder to take her speeches about "why we have to wipe out the humans" seriously when you no longer have those mobs screaming "kill the monsters" around. And what can you do after that? I don't want to see Demona reduced to a simple Hyena-style psychotic, obviously. Reforming her would be difficult to pull off, and killing her is certainly out of the question (especially since killing Demona means killing Macbeth, which I definitely don't want to see happen either). So what do you do with her after that?

There'd probably be still the regular cases of crime-busting, but they'd risk being anticlimactic in the situation. In fact, I suspect that if Greg's higher-ups were insistent on keeping the Goliath Chronicles canon, Greg's best option would be to just do "Gargoyles 2198" instead, where you've got the Space-Spawn occupation to provide a new big menace for the gargoyles to deal with.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, January 15, 2005 07:59:33 AM
IP: 4.244.12.216

DAN> Greg has said several times in the past that he'd likely just ignore the last 12 episodes of TGC all together and pick up where he left off. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, January 15, 2005 03:13:36 AM
IP: 162.84.130.8

Yeah, and the bad thing, is this show does come back, it has to pick up were GC left off. I have no ideaa how greg or any of the original writers are going to pull it off.
Dan - [enki@inbox.lv]
Saturday, January 15, 2005 02:39:29 AM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Welcome Kaycee.

Those GOliath Chronicles episodes aren't canon though. Only the first one "The Journey" is. The rest aren't. The big reason is that the episodes were really badly written. Most of the original production team was gone, and a new team was brought on that was not familiar with the show at all. So we got twelve dumbed down episodes that lacked the magic that the original series had.

Greg Bishansky
Saturday, January 15, 2005 12:27:16 AM
IP: 162.84.130.8

Welcome to the board Kaycee! Here, have a brownie! *hands over plate of brownies*
BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Saturday, January 15, 2005 12:14:34 AM
IP: 64.228.109.97

I quite accidently stumble on this site. As many who have written here I watch Gargoyles when in first aired in 1994. I was 15 and it just happened to air right before my favorite show "Dr.Quinn." But I have to be honest with everyone when I tell you that I wasn't really that intrested. Soon I found out that my favorite actors from Star Trek will be on it. AKA Marina Sirtis [Demona] and Jonathan Frakes[Xanatos] but after I heard that I was glued. For quite sometime I watched it taped it everyday then one day it wasn't on anymore. I was crushed that small inkling of hope that Star Trek really wasn't gone [well the voice talents]. I didn't discover it until about a year ago airing on ToonDisney but it wasn't Gargoyles it was the new title "The Golith Cronicles" but I was excited Gargoyles was back episodes I never saw. They were great! However I was disappointed that Demona really never was discovered that she really loved Angela. But that very last scene with tear streaming down her face saying something like "I Love You My Daughter" and Angela never really could proved that when it came to her Demona was truely redeemed. I wish it had gone further and it was nice to hear actors/actress's from my favorite show in the world Star Trek. I often wondered how that happened fans of the shows perhaps. Until next time...
Kaycee - [littleone@sixthhouse.zzn.com]
Fort Drum, NY, US
Saturday, January 15, 2005 12:07:18 AM
IP: 69.201.21.210

Greg, kathy and Patrick> aha! thanks for refreshing my memory!
Vash
Saturday, January 15, 2005 12:07:18 AM
IP: 129.98.125.57

Father of the Pride would've made ALOT more sense if NBC had bothered airing it in the correct order! The last episode before the "hiatus" had Hunter getting rid of that stupid collar, yet its back again in all of the episodes that got aired after. Its like NBC didn't even want it to survive at all.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Friday, January 14, 2005 10:45:50 PM
IP: 207.65.41.177

MAtt> Just to put my two cents in the pot about FOTP: IT got cancelled bc the viewers that it got weren't enough to make up for the cost of producing the show. Oh, and in my opinion, it wasn't very good.
Phoenyx
Memephis, TN, USA
Friday, January 14, 2005 10:14:34 PM
IP: 65.186.232.236

Awww Matt, don't cry. Here, have a tissue. *hands over tissue box and a plate of cookies* Just don't eat them all.
BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Friday, January 14, 2005 06:55:24 PM
IP: 64.228.109.44

Well, that's that, I suppose, Father of the Pride has indeed become "The Biggest Loser", It's not even on the NBC website anymore. WAAAAAAAH.
Matt Fews
Friday, January 14, 2005 06:22:30 PM
IP: 69.156.216.162

Vash > The only Jubilee I know of in this fandom was Sara Hutchinson, con chair of Gathering 2000.
Patrick
Friday, January 14, 2005 04:35:16 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

I forgot to link!
http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=3

kathy - [staff@gargoyles-fans.org]
Friday, January 14, 2005 03:42:24 PM
IP: 66.82.9.13

Nope I've always been kathy - note the lower case 'k'. My pen name is M.theCat when writing solo and Madame Destine in partnership with Patrick "Puck" Toman. I've posted in the past as Maggie TC. I've never been known as Jubilee.

Gathering Stuff... the G2005 is back from Las Vegas, (it took some of us longer to get back than others ;) ) Big trip, heavy duty meeting. The hotel staff is great! You're gonna love the Palace Station. Hot and Cold running restaurants, you'll never have to leave the building the entire weekend if you don't want to. Keep an eye on the website. We've got literally dozens of updates and changes coming over the next several weeks. Yeah, I know, why mention them now? Because we're excited and we want you to be too! Check out the Forum for information on Costuming from the Palace Station Staff!


kathy
Friday, January 14, 2005 03:40:27 PM
IP: 66.82.9.13

VASH> Yep, parts of Aaron's interview made it on there. He was the guy who talked about Xanatos's "Pay a Man Enough..." line (the other was my brother). Aaron and Mara also appeared after I did during the Demona gushing section.
Greg Bishansky
Friday, January 14, 2005 03:16:53 PM
IP: 162.84.130.8

Matt>> You'd be better off saying that 101 Dalmations : The Series was the reason that Gargoyles was cancelled. (101 Dalmations was put in place of Gargoyles.) And some good news: according to tvshowsondvd.com, FOTP may get a DVD release.

Luckily, Gargoyles got a release first ;)

I'd be mad if any show from 2004 got a release before Gargoyles. Luckily (almost) none did.

And that 20/20 story: Maybe we should outsource our comedy writing to Afghanistan ;)

A minimum of 18 days before Buena Vista (hopefully) decides to put Gargoyles Season 2 on DVD!!! (cue Howard Dean scream)

Lord GargFan
Friday, January 14, 2005 02:51:37 PM
IP: 24.11.252.213

Matt > I know you hate Joey, but.... 'kay I don't know where I'm trying to go with this.
As for it winning that award, well, it is a pretty good comedy show, of course, it can't beat The Daily Show.
Yea, I know, completely different category of show, but I stand by what I said.

BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Friday, January 14, 2005 02:38:18 PM
IP: 64.228.119.176

Sorry for double post, just noticed...

Gantros>I'm at work now, so I will check that link later. Thanks for the idea :D

Siren - [Click my name for My Little Demona Pony]
Friday, January 14, 2005 02:17:33 PM
IP: 24.173.175.46

Spacebabie>Well, I am glad my pony brought you back. She was the second pony I made. The first was one based on Last Unicorn, but she is mine *says these last words in a similar way to Golem*
I do plan on selling a Last Unicorn pony in the coming months.
Anyways, Demona was my second pony and she was a pain at times. Sculpting the wings just right and making sure the wire didn't poke through was by far the hardest part....no actually...I take that back...KEEPING the wings attached to her was the hardest part. I ultimatly poked the wires through her body and did a lot of twisting and tying to the point that even without glue, they didn't budge. Then I gave a few squirts of krazy glue, just to be on the safe side. I had fun with the tail. The crown was hard getting that shape. Overall, it has been the hardest pony, but also the most rewarding :)

Siren - [Click my name for My Little Demona Pony]
Friday, January 14, 2005 01:56:29 PM
IP: 24.173.175.46

Patrick> Did Aaron get interviewed? I remember them cutting out his tattoo... And I could have sworn that Kathy *has* gone by that name somewhere; in an old con booklet maybe. I didn't just make that up. =p
Vash
Friday, January 14, 2005 01:23:41 PM
IP: 129.98.125.57

Vash > Kathy has never gone by the nickname Jubilee, and you forgot Aaron Wheeler.

195 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Friday, January 14, 2005 01:22:07 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

TVB> Just off the top of my head, the people I remember interviewed (not just appearing in shots) are Kathy/Jubilee, Zehra, Whitbourne & Stormy, KW Sapphire, Christine Morgan, Riverdale, Greg X, Gore, Loupy, Karine/Kanthara, Greg W. and Keith David. I may be missing a few.
Vash
Friday, January 14, 2005 01:14:40 PM
IP: 129.98.125.57

Matt Fews> Joey, Joey, Joey, Joey,Joey, Joey, Joey,Joey, Joey, Joey, Joey, Joey, Joey, Joey.

Sorry couldn't resist. Never watched Joey or Father of the Pride. But the only one you really have to blame are a. the shows on the other networks at the same time and b. the American public for not watching it.

Vinnie> No, I didn't forget, but I didn't think a TGS episode was relevant to this discussion.

Greg Bishansky
Friday, January 14, 2005 12:39:40 PM
IP: 162.84.130.8

Can anyone identify the various people interviewed in the DVD documentary? I have my suspicions about a few of them, but I'm not entirely sure.

Thanks.

TVB
Stanford, CA
Friday, January 14, 2005 12:32:56 PM
IP: 128.12.135.104

Spacebabie, that maybe so, but it lost as best new comedy to Joey, so therefore Joey is somewhat responsible for its cancellation.
Matt Fews
Friday, January 14, 2005 12:01:30 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

This just warrented posting:
Equality

Barbara Walters of 20/2 0 (USA) did a story on gender roles in Kabul
several years before the Afghan conflict. She noted that women
customarily walked about 5 paces behind their husbands.

She returned to Kabul recently and observed that women still walk
behind their husbands, but now seem to walk even further back and
are happy with the old custom.

Ms. Walters approached one of the Afghani women and asked, "Why
do you now seem happy with the old custom that you used to try
and change?"

"Land mines," said the woman

MORAL: BEHIND EVERY MAN IS A SMART WOMAN.



Phoenyx
Memphis, TN, USA
Friday, January 14, 2005 10:36:47 AM
IP: 135.214.150.125

Siren>>> Your pony brought me back to posting here again. The closest thing I have had ever done to sculpting a pony was Cutting Snuzzles hair and using black water color paint to give her main a black streak so she would look "Punk" I was a strange kid.

Vinnie>>>Greg X was refering to Canon. TGS is not Canon. Outside of fanfiction there was only one time Brooklyn had appeared as human.

Matt Fewes>>> Joey is not the reason Father of the Pride was cancled. It's impossible to schedual two shows at the same time on the same network. Blame the shows on the other channals that came on at the same time as Father of the Pride,

Spacebabie
Orlando, Florida
Friday, January 14, 2005 10:33:06 AM
IP: 69.161.157.101

Bb, Don't ever mention that accursed show. Father of the Pride was cancelled because of it.
Matt Fews
Friday, January 14, 2005 08:16:13 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Greg Bishansky: You forgot to mention that Brooklyn was also turned into a human in an episode of TGS, by baby Alex. Still I'm not sure if that should be counted since it's only on the internet and not on television.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Friday, January 14, 2005 04:42:42 AM
IP: 64.112.202.254

An idea masquerading as a question if I ever saw one.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8689

As for the conversation here, I missed the beginning? But how did this innane "Brooklyn was once human" theory start anyway? Brooklyn is not, never was, and enver will be human (outside of "The Mirror", but that was a one time thing for all involved save Demona).

Greg Bishansky
Friday, January 14, 2005 01:53:26 AM
IP: 162.84.130.8

An idea masquerading as a question if I ever saw one.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8689

As for the conversation here, I missed the beginning? But how did this innane "Brooklyn was once human" theory start anyway? Brooklyn is not, never was, and enver will be human (outside of "The Mirror", but that was a one time thing for all involved save Demona).
Greg Bishansky
Friday, January 14, 2005 01:53:04 AM
IP: 162.84.130.8

Brooklyn realizes humans fear him based on his appearence. he just feels that by talking to a human he can instantly make them see beyond that. hes naive, but hes learning. the same could be said for any of the younger gargoyles in the series... particularly those not raised in close contaact with humans!
matt
Friday, January 14, 2005 01:49:40 AM
IP: 68.92.88.73

Thought I'd throw in this quick thought.

Brooklyn's desire to socialize with humans isn't what strikes me as different. Not realizing that his very appearance scares humans is. See how he tries to talk to Mary in Awakenings I.

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Friday, January 14, 2005 12:34:10 AM
IP: 4.247.152.96

Hey Siren, I had a thought for a new Gargoyles Music Video based on the Justice League Unlimited theme. the idea is basically a complete spoof on the original JLU opening theme, where you have the stills of the Manhattan clan being panned over dramatically and then pull out with all of the other cast members, with show clips playing intermittently, for an idea of what I mean, click my name for a link to the JLU clip page, and select Original Intro
Gantros - [gantros@comcast.net]
Friday, January 14, 2005 12:19:20 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Gargoyles sighting!!!!

Brent Spiner (aka Puck) was on the show 'Joey' as himself. It was funny to see him being annoyed by one of the regulars!

BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:38:14 PM
IP: 64.228.109.168

Well, it's hard to deny it. White hair does look pretty cool... on someone who isn't old. When someone has white hair 'cuz their old.... it just doesn't have the same effect.
BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Thursday, January 13, 2005 09:18:14 PM
IP: 64.228.109.36

I must say, they do have a lot of white haired characters on the show. Puck, Magus, Brooklyn, Oberon, Archmage...Even Dracon who got a premature white stripe from fear ;)
Siren
Thursday, January 13, 2005 07:43:08 PM
IP: 24.165.226.120

Being able to recognize differences in temperature and having a physiology that is able to tolerate great extremes in the surrounding environment are two different things entirely. It's not a nit for a gargoyle to make an observation on the weather. Now if Broadway had followed up his comment by putting on a sweater, THAT would have been contradictory to the theory that gargoyles have a higher tolerance for temperature extremes than humans.

So is it Friday yet?

196 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Thursday, January 13, 2005 06:49:48 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Vertigo1> I would have to agree with you on that one, they also adapted fairly well to the extreme humidity that was part of the Rainforest in the "the Green" ep.
Phoenyx
Memphis, TN, USA
Thursday, January 13, 2005 05:54:15 PM
IP: 135.214.150.125

They seem to take extreme heat very well since Goliath, Angela, and Gabriel flew not a few feet above the surface of the lava pool on Avalon's volcano.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Thursday, January 13, 2005 01:58:36 PM
IP: 207.65.41.166

*seeks pic of Magus*
Jade Griffin
Thursday, January 13, 2005 01:52:43 PM
IP: 64.42.17.197

On Brooklyn being odd, I see a lot of good points against him being unusual or different from his kin. On the white hair issue, perhaps the Magus is something of an albino? There was a neat person at Montreal, a fellow fan of the show, from Germany I believe, and she had white hair. I'm sure she was only in her twenties or less. Hey, maybe next year White will dress up as the Magus for us!
Jade Griffin
Thursday, January 13, 2005 01:50:59 PM
IP: 64.42.17.197

To defer to Greg on the issue, it's his thinking that gargoyles adjust to climate as Phoenyx mentioned; the Manhattan clan is more accustomed to cold weather being from Scotland, though the Guatemalan clan would probably not fare too well.

Quickly searching the Ask Greg archives I ran across a post that's most relevant to this discussion (linked in my name). And though complaining doesn't mean Brooklyn is physically suffering in cold weather, it still shows that he's less than happy about those conditions.

To hit on Aelyria's post, though, it seems that Broadway was initially going to be the one who we would think was intolerant of cold weather - not just for the kitchen scene in "Awakening," but also from Greg's post of the first draft of "The Price":

"EXT. MANHATTAN SKYLINE - NIGHT - PANORAMIC POV

A spectacular gargoyle's eye view of the city, covered by a thick pelt of snow. CAMERA MOVES SLOWLY through the maze of skyscrapers. Below, headlights and neon signs play prismatic colors. An enchanting vista.

BROOKLYN (V.O.)
Boy, the city sure is different
when it snows.

TRACK WITH GARGOYLES

As GOLIATH, BROOKLYN, BROADWAY, LEXINGTON and HUDSON ride the night wind. Broadway hugs himself against the cold.

BROADWAY
Yeah -- it's colder."

I'm loving that search feature...

Alex Garg
VA, USA
Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:22:17 PM
IP: 216.145.68.246

Phoenyx, or for that matter, Scotland cold vs New York cold.
Matt Fews
Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:15:18 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Cold perception is based on the climate you were raised in. It's why someone from, let's say, Hawaii, would find someplace like, let's say, Middle California parka weather. It's all what your body has been aclimited to. The same could be said for the gargoyles.
Phoenyx
Memphis, TN, USA
Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:34:40 AM
IP: 135.214.150.125

Not an inconsistency. While cold does not bother them the way it does us, they probably to have their own climate preferences.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:15:44 AM
IP: 162.84.130.8

Actually, in one of the "Awakening" episodes, Broadway tells Brooklyn and Lex to get him out of the freezer because "it's cold in here." This brings up an interesting inconsistency. Several episodes later, Elisa walks into the clock tower wearing a scarf and comments how cold it is, and Goliath responds that "cold does not affect us." Has Greg mentioned this before?

Sorry if this has already been hashed out on the boards...


Aelyria
Austin, Texas
Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:01:59 AM
IP: 168.39.180.156

i only mentioned Angela didn't like the cold cuz shes the only gargoyle i can remember in the series to mention being cold, when she and Brooklyn are swept up in Oberon's cloak. but Siren has a good point, maybe Brook just complains about the cold more. has Greg actually said somewhere that he gets colder more easily than the average gargoyle? i think you are reading into his one or two lines about being cold...
matt
Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:47:41 AM
IP: 68.92.88.73

Angela didn't do well in the cold because she was raised on Avalon, where the seasons never changed from warm weather.

Maybe Brooklyn just complains more

Siren
Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:08:06 AM
IP: 24.173.175.46

matt>> There ya go, though I don't think Angela was quite as bad as Brooklyn when it came to cold weather - she held up in Norway pretty well, even welcomed the fact that it was the first time she'd seen snow.
Alex Garg
VA, USA
Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:05:48 AM
IP: 216.145.68.246

VERTIGO - Sorry, but Greg hasn't posted his ramble on "Cloud Fathers" yet. What he's posted is a *preliminary* to the ramble, in the form of the old notes and outlines from when they were working on that episode back in 1995. That's not the same thing.

Please take care to use the right word; for a moment there, I thought that he'd actually watched the episode last night and eagerly went to "Ask Greg", only to discover that it was just the same document that I'd already seen last night.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, January 13, 2005 06:40:53 AM
IP: 4.244.12.85

"there might very well be (or have been) other white-haired, non-elderly gargoyles"
like Othello (coldstone)?

"others not as tolerant of cold weather as their kin"
like Angela?

"and others still with a powerful desire to make non-gargoyle friends"
like Lexington?

Brooklyn is a unique gargoyle, a unique character, but in no way do i see him as unusual for a gargoyle... you don't even have to look outside his Clan to find similiar traits... i think the most non-gargoyle thing done in the series was to kiss a human, which Goliath did, but no one is saying taht Goliath must have been a human or something weird like that because of it...

matt
Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:29:57 AM
IP: 68.92.88.73

Gargoyles is only beating out Batman: TAS by *five* votes! If you haven't voted in the poll, head there!

...Yeah, I'm no cheerleader.

Oddities of Brooklyn>> Depends on how you want to use the term "very odd" (and hopefully not in the way I butchered it in my lead). If you're trying to imply that he is somehow not gargoylean, I don't think there's a case. If, however, you want to claim that Brooklyn has a character unlike those of the other gargoyles we know, it's not so "off-the-wall," though even then I don't think we need to put Brooklyn's heritage or hatchling years under the microscope.

And keep in mind that we haven't seen *every* gargoyle *ever*; there might very well be (or have been) other white-haired, non-elderly gargoyles, others not as tolerant of cold weather as their kin, and others still with a powerful desire to make non-gargoyle friends.

I think Brooklyn is unique but not unusual.

Christine>> Hey, watch what you're saying about my man Travis. ;)

Alex Garg - [<-- dvdtoons.com]
VA, USA
Thursday, January 13, 2005 12:10:00 AM
IP: 216.145.68.246

Greg just posted his ramble on "Cloud Fathers".
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:55:44 PM
IP: 207.65.41.89

Matt Fews>> Looking at your avatar, how 'bout this:

Talon as Logan 5, who in looking for Sanctuary finds this quirky old gargoyle (see left) who hangs out with a bunch of (non-anthropomorphic) cats...

Just remember, before you become a Runner, that there is nooooooooo Saaaaaaanc-tuu-ary!

(Reference to Logan's Run, in case anyone hasn't seen that movie).

Even weirder thoughts>> OK, getting past original off-the-wall notions, would it even be worthwhile for me to argue that Brooklyn is very odd for a gargoyle? That would be more interesting than superficial similarities.

Demonskrye>> Concerning the "original off-the-wall notion":
Well, it apparently wouldn't work even as fan fiction, given the reaction here.

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:18:23 PM
IP: 4.247.215.39

I just noticed, animee-major is selling a Demona cell on ebay for $300 :) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1532&item=6146291170&rd=1
Siren - [Click name for Demona Cel]
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 08:48:20 PM
IP: 24.165.226.120

I was pleasently suprised today. I thought I had made the only Demona MLP. I found out I was wrong. http://www.livejournal.com/community/my_little_pony/805490.html#cutid1

Her's is very pretty I must say. I also love the Phoenix Gate and how she did the crown. :)

Also, I am currently finishing up a griffon pony. I glued each feather on individually. Which took quite a bit. Thankfully found already made "wings". All I need to do now is paint the beak and feet, then feather the head and eyes and he'll be done.

And it's only natural...I am currently in the design stage of making an Una pony :) Complete with removeable horn-jewelry. I did have a few people ask if there would be any other gargoyle ponies. Not sure yet.

I am still developing a Jack Sparrow pony, which is taking a wee-bit longer then intended....must be the rum...

Siren - [Click my name for Demona My Little Pony]
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 08:34:15 PM
IP: 24.165.226.120

Shara> Ohmygawd!! I so hope you're right. That's HUGE news. I hope we can get a confirmation on that soon!

Aelyria
Austin, Texas
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 08:13:25 PM
IP: 168.39.180.134

Matt > Gee, I sure hope they start publishing (printing) them before the day they're supposed to go on sale, otherwise there's going to be a heck of a line outside of Barnes and Noble.
Patrick
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 07:35:14 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Matt Fews> Mine was in October:) I plan on not feeling old for a while.
Jade Griffin
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 06:55:34 PM
IP: 64.42.17.197

Awww Matt, you're not old! You're only old when other people start calling you that.
BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 06:24:59 PM
IP: 64.228.49.69

Ooops just a question? Does anyone know if greg has or ever would come to comic con san diego?
Shara
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 03:38:26 PM
IP: 209.179.193.251

Gantros >Most likely they will be releasing the second season. As for dates I don't know anything about that. At comic con they did show fans a collectors box, and had us handing out the dvd cards at our booth there. They seemed really happy about it. I Belive disney already plans on the second and third seasons but when I don't know.

P.s>Agian sorry about the lapse in timing on the comics site. Family death really messed me up. I'm almost done with getting the update done. This first time will always take forever because I'm making it easy for me to upload the comic each month. If you have any questions just email me. I am going to get at least the covers that did not make it .. Up for viewing for people to look at while where still updating. Where all signed up for the gathering will have our booth there and be giving out free stuff make sure to drop by.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 03:36:53 PM
IP: 209.179.193.251

Patrick, there may be 197 days until the Gathering.

Now presenting my countdown. 184 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes, and 50 seconds left until the publication of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince!

Anonymous
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 12:04:58 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Well, today is my first full day of being 29.

Gosh I'm old.


Matt Fews
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 08:15:42 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Greg posted his ramble on "Bushido" at "Ask Greg". Go and read it!
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 07:50:16 AM
IP: 4.244.12.17

"Other" would included any title that's not on that list, whic is bound to be a lot.

197 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 07:21:51 AM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Yea, Gargoyles is still #1 release on dvdtoons, barely beating Batman at the moment by 10 votes. But what is suprising is that #3 consistently has been "Other" - receiving more votes than Shrek II.

Can anybody help me understand what all "other" includes that could be driving it up so high? That's the real mystery. Some group out there is probably trying to claim credit for other being so high.

One more question: at the end of Mooncat's 1st Gathering 2003 Journal, it says "end of day 1" and I never see a follow-up anywhere. What happenned to the rest or was her entire gathering journal in that 1 post?

DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 06:29:42 AM
IP: 67.14.195.33

Nay, I have not been spotted outside of telling my friends and family I am on the dvd... Lo, and it was a sad night.
Jade Griffin
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 03:14:25 AM
IP: 24.205.209.169

GANTROS> You are mistaken. In February, Disney is going to go over the sales and decide whether or not to begin releasing season 2.

I think they will, but to be on the safe side, we'd better rack up some more sales ;)

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 01:30:40 AM
IP: 162.84.130.8

I wasn't sure where I read this, but I saw a little comment by either Greg or someone representing him that Buena Vista wants to release the first volume of the second season this February, depending on sales of the first season. Does anyone have any more info on this, or am I mistaken?
Gantros
Wednesday, January 12, 2005 01:24:17 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

So, who out there has gotten recognized for their appearance on the Gargoyles DVD?

A couple weeks back, while working I got recognized by a customer for my little appearance, someone I've never met before.

And earlier today, my brother Alex (who was on it also) got recognized in Wal-Mart (I wasn't there) by someone he went to High School with and he hasn't seen in a couple years.

So, who's been identified by people? And telling them in advance that you're on it doesn't count.

Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:52:18 PM
IP: 162.84.130.8

What, you can't picture a Neo-ized version of Talon? ;) Fang would definitely make a great Cypher. Maggie would be Trinity obviously, but that leaves poor Claw. I don't think any of the main cast were mutes. ;)
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 05:53:25 PM
IP: 207.65.41.177

Christine, and Demona would become a My Little Pony ;)

BrooksBabe>It is frightenly adorable :P

Siren - [Click my name for My Little Demona Pony]
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 03:30:08 PM
IP: 24.173.175.46

Christine, yeah right and Talon,Claw,Maggie and the Clones practice martial arts in the Labyrinth.
Anonymous
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:04:28 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Siren > I love your Demona My Little Pony!!! It's soo adorable!!!
BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 11:29:10 AM
IP: 130.63.176.184

Dan>Yup, it's my creation

Patrick>LMAO!!!!!

Siren
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 07:54:18 AM
IP: 24.165.226.120

Siren > Thats cute enough to make Anton Sevarius stick a finger down his throat. ;)

Christine > Ah... it all makes perfect sense now. ;)

Lord Gargfan > I already have a mint copy to save. ;)

Spambot > You! Off my planet!

198 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 07:17:48 AM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Alright, Greg Weisman posted his ramble on Sentinel yesterday.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 07:14:53 AM
IP: 67.14.195.11

that's cute siren, did you make it?
dan - [enki@inbox.lv]
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 03:42:36 AM
IP: 68.42.18.157

*sighs* ignoring....BAKA!
Dan - [enki@inbox.lv]
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 03:39:02 AM
IP: 68.42.18.157

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valium - [jane_doe7207@classnet.pl]
valium, valium, valium
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 03:19:02 AM
IP: 216.204.237.7

Click my link now. Before I put up a bad link. :)
Siren - [Click my name for Demona My Little Pony]
Tuesday, January 11, 2005 12:15:38 AM
IP: 24.165.226.120

Siren, while you're fixing things, you might want to fix the logo on your index. The image 404's out.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Monday, January 10, 2005 11:56:34 PM
IP: 207.65.59.174

<< I don't think it's any more likely that Brooklyn used to be a human than it is that police work was Elisa's second career choice, and she really wanted to be a T.V news reporter for Channel 6. :P >>

Ah, but you know that bastard Travis Marshall stole her shot at it! That's why she's so bitter toward the media. ;)

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Monday, January 10, 2005 08:50:31 PM
IP: 67.136.137.134

Fixing my link and typo :P
Siren - [Click my name for Demona My Little Pony]
Monday, January 10, 2005 08:47:01 PM
IP: 24.165.226.120

Thanks Matt for the compliments. And the tip. Yes, you are correct. I was so frazzled at work trying to pump out those auctions for today, that I forgot which multi-parter. I did think about the claw marks actually, but then the sticker was fun to do to :)
Siren - [Click my name for Demon My Little Pony]
Monday, January 10, 2005 08:18:52 PM
IP: 24.165.226.120

Siren> good job on the MLP. my sister had tons of those! when you first said you were maiking one i thought you would've had the Hunter's claw marks as her hip mark, but the sticker works well.
oh, and in the description you say that the Praying Gargoyle was used to cast a spell in the "City of Stone" episodes, should be "Hunter's Moon", thought you might wanna know.
good job!

matt
Monday, January 10, 2005 07:34:21 PM
IP: 68.92.88.73

I'm with Matt. I would love it if both Gargoyles and Father of the Pride came back. :) Still, with the success of TV shows coming out on DVD boxset releases, theres little doubt that Father of the Pride will be out on DVD. The only thing thats irked me about NBC is that they're intentionally airing the episodes OUT OF ORDER!

Brooklyn's past: For those interested, theres an ongoing fanfic series up on the Adult Gargoyles site called "In the Shadows of Love" by "GargoyleMistress" that lets just say gets pretty graphic in the detail. (as in rather dark in some chapters)

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Monday, January 10, 2005 07:19:25 PM
IP: 207.65.41.138

My Demona My Little Pony is now online and up for sale on eBay. Have a gander. Click my name or copy/paste: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5949301505
Siren
Monday, January 10, 2005 06:35:34 PM
IP: 24.165.226.120

Okay people, I need some help over here (and I don't mean the psychiatric (sp?) kind). I've been searching everywhere for the book 'The Jewel in the Skull' by Michael Moorcock, and no one seems to have it... not even used. If any of you could help me with this, it'd really mean a lot. (Of course, if any of you were willing to buy it for me and send it to me, I'd pay you back for it.)
Help a fellow fan in need! (I know I'm sounding desperate and/or corny... but it's for good reason!)

BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Monday, January 10, 2005 05:29:18 PM
IP: 130.63.176.183

DVD Sales Figures: If I could find a chart for JUST new release sales figures, I'd likely find it on there.. but every chart I've found has EVERY DVD sold...

#20 on one chart is Shrek 2 - Full screen version. And all they list is the top 20 :( I even looked through the individual retailer charts... nothing.

The information can be requested from VideoScan (Nielson group), and I assume Disney has done that, or will do that. I haven't found anything online, though.

Patricia Lovelady - [sabre0link@hotmail.com]
Montevallo, AL, USA
Monday, January 10, 2005 04:14:20 PM
IP: 68.17.172.56

Hehe... no need to be getting greedy Matt. :D
BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
Toronto, Canada
Monday, January 10, 2005 04:09:11 PM
IP: 130.63.176.183

LGF, why?, when I can have both, Gargoyles on Family Channel
and FOTP on NBC.

Matt Fews
Monday, January 10, 2005 03:01:58 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

And in regards to the February discussion regarding Season Two news (from Gargoyles News Central):

(Holds breath, crosses fingers, finds every lucky charm possible and posts DVD posters around town)

Let's try to make an even BIGGER push than before the actual day. Anybody recover from holiday debt for that copy to save in packaging and mint condition?

Sorry for the 2x post, but I just found out. Click my name to see for yourself.

Lord GargFan
Monday, January 10, 2005 02:40:28 PM
IP: 24.11.252.213

Matt Fews > I liked FOTP too. But when having to choose, would you pick a Gargoyles resurrection or a FOTP resurrection?

Did Gargoyles ever win some sort of award for the show itself? (I remember Keith David won an Emmy for the voice work, but I couldn't remember about any awards [even a Family Show Award])

And about the Brooklyn thing:
I disagree with the Brooklyn=Transformed Human theory and about any relations with the Magus. I know where you get the evidence from but I think it is out of context. Of course, that's my opinion, which may not be yours. I'm known for believing my opinions as truth. I'd probably disagree even if Greg said it was true. That's the way I am.

And, for the umteenth time, any sales figures for the DVD (even a Billboard DVD Chart position would be good)?

Lord GargFan
Monday, January 10, 2005 02:31:33 PM
IP: 24.11.252.213

For the hair thing, if I remember correctly, I think Greg did say that the Magus's hair was white due to the strain of casting spells and whatnot. One of the Weird Sisters (don't know the name), her hair is platinum blonde, and appears white. Brooklyn's.... definitely white. But then again, that's just how I view it :)
BrooksBabe
T.O., Canada
Monday, January 10, 2005 01:10:03 PM
IP: 130.63.176.188

Brooklyn's Hair> Anyone ever think that it could be plaitnum blonde? Hair so pale that it looks white? Hmm, as for Elisa's Hair, evryone I know of the Native American persausion has had blue black hair. It's a heritage thing.
Phoenyx
Memphis, TN, USA
Monday, January 10, 2005 12:47:38 PM
IP: 135.214.150.125

Oops, hit the Submit button by mistake

NBC SUCKS, I watched the People's Choice Awards last night and instead of Father of the Pride winning best new comedy, the lame ass show Joey did. This was the last chance it had for redemption. Why did NBC cancel such a great show. Tuesdays will never be the same again.

Having it brought back to life would have been a Great Birthday present for me on my 29th year.

Matt Fews
Monday, January 10, 2005 12:22:56 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

...
Anonymous
Monday, January 10, 2005 12:16:14 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Brooklyn's Origins> While I think it would make for an interesting fan fiction, I can't believe that Brooklyn was ever human or related to the Magus. Part of the problem is that it's the Magus whose white hair is unusual, not Brook's. We've seen other gargoyles with white hair, so it's not an uncommon occurance. It'd make more sense along that line of logic to suggest that the Magus used to be a gargoyle, which seems even more unlikely. So that just leaves a slight vocal similarity, which is not nearly enough to suggest parentage.

The Magus's white hair is a bit of a curiousity. It could be just a genetic fluke. It could be an artistic interpretation of very light hair. (After all, Elisa's tresses are apparently blue). Or, if you want a more fun explanation, it could be a reaction to an initiation ritual that's a step in becoming a mage which is so physically and/or mentally taxing that it can turn the hair white. Or maybe somewhere waaaaaaaaay back, the Magus is related to Puck. Your guess is as good as mine.

As for Brooklyn's eagerness to interact with humans during season one, I think it's explainable without making Brooklyn lok totally naive. Greg has said in the commentary and probably several other places that Goliath is really an optimist at heart and most of season one shows him getting that optimism back after losing it for a while. It think this description could equally apply to the rest of the clan, especially the Trio. They realize that things have changed in the past 1,000 years and they really like this new era. So they really have no reason to assume that their reception from humans will be worse rather than better. When Brooklyn tries to interact with humans during season one, he's hoping one of them will have the same reaction that Goliath got from Elisa. Or heck, even what Lex initially got from the Pack. That people's initial fear will give way to curiousity, and eventually understanding.

At least, that's my take on it.

Demonskrye - [<---Jim Hill Media]
Monday, January 10, 2005 10:45:41 AM
IP: 146.115.115.131

Matt > Hush... you're going to spoil Cagney's cover. Don't be a dirty squealer, see. Nyah! ;)

I don't think it's any more likely that Brooklyn used to be a human than it is that police work was Elisa's second career choice, and she really wanted to be a T.V news reporter for Channel 6. :P

199 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Monday, January 10, 2005 06:53:48 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

thought i should throw this disclaimer on here.

JJ Gregarious, sorry if my previous post comes across as mean or anything, i'm just playing around. but really, i find the idea of Brook as a transformed human as ridiculous as my examples. i mean, is it possible, well sure, but you are gonna need a lot more evidence then a passing familiarty with humans and the Magus had white hair... afterall, i'm familiar with Gargoyles and i had white hair when i was younger, so does that mean i'm Brooklyn transformed?

if you have any other evidence, i'd love to hear it, but as it stands i find the theory amusing and quite a strecth. again, nothing personal...

matt
Monday, January 10, 2005 04:26:16 AM
IP: 68.92.88.73

my lucky number 11...

this week i think i'll try to convince everyone that Hudson is a member of the Third Race, Broadway is a New Olympian, Elisa is a Mutate, and Cagney is a Space-Spawn spy... i mean, do you guys see what i'm getting at, its really all very obvious when you think about it... but, is this part of Greg's plan? could it work?

: )

matt
Monday, January 10, 2005 04:15:43 AM
IP: 68.92.88.73

10th and on with the show!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Monday, January 10, 2005 03:44:48 AM
IP: 64.112.202.169

nineth!

Happy birthday Patricia! Hope you had a good 'un!

Faieq
Monday, January 10, 2005 03:40:53 AM
IP: 195.10.45.232

Um, or eight =\
Iori
Monday, January 10, 2005 03:13:54 AM
IP: 67.113.2.88

Se7en.
Iori
Monday, January 10, 2005 03:13:05 AM
IP: 67.113.2.88

........................Lucky number 7. Lucky for whom? It didn't make me first...

Vin

castle0909
Monday, January 10, 2005 03:12:53 AM
IP: 152.163.100.137

I never saw the point in this, but...

Sixth! =p
StarCreator
Monday, January 10, 2005 02:43:56 AM
IP: 69.140.225.245

With 8 mins left in my birthday... I claim FIFTH!
Patricia Lovelady - [sabre0link@hotmail.com]
Montevallo, AL, USA
Monday, January 10, 2005 12:53:45 AM
IP: 68.17.172.56

4th!!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, January 10, 2005 12:45:11 AM
IP: 67.14.195.33

Third!
Lord GarfFan
Monday, January 10, 2005 12:25:23 AM
IP: 24.11.252.213

Guess that makes me second!
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Monday, January 10, 2005 12:22:04 AM
IP: 67.136.147.149

FIRST!!!
BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Monday, January 10, 2005 12:00:11 AM
IP: 64.228.109.123