I'll definitely have to update my Guide to the Gargoyles Universe soon, both to include Vinnie's surname and Art's encounter with Goliath.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 6:08:47 pm EDT from 4.245.18.115

Bonkers> This is the comment room not the chat room.

DPH> Yes, two different people. :) We've both been around forever. @.@;;
*HUGS TO SIREN*

Ed> Vinnie has been called Grigori (his last name) at least since 2004. I don't know if the last name is in the credits in the Journey, but in 2004 Vinnie is credited with the last name of Grigori in The Journey script for the radio play.

Gregarino was the original name, but it's since been changed so it's not SOO out there. :) (And I like it. :D)
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Vinnie Grigori's #1 Fan
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 5:49:57 pm EDT from 65.185.9.61

warcraft>I fell Great :P very HAPPYIES
BONKERS
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 5:38:26 pm EDT from 68.55.175.94

Runs up the wall
BONKERS
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 5:37:03 pm EDT from 68.55.175.94

Bonkers.........you feelin alright?
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
LEEEEEERRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS is my idol!
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 5:35:33 pm EDT from 69.231.230.186

I want a cookie O.O
BONKERS
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 5:34:04 pm EDT from 68.55.175.94

Gorebash>HIIIiiiiiii :P
BONKERS
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 5:29:37 pm EDT from 68.55.175.94

11th,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20:P
BONKERS
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 5:26:43 pm EDT from 68.55.175.94

Todd: Wow, that's a great point on the speech. It really does map perfectly onto Demona's fears. But it's also canny because Castaway picks up existing fears -- ones already mentioned by Billy & Susan's mother and Art. It's an easy 'yes!' because he's just reflecting their own sentiments back to them.

(I can't wait for the next time we meet Art by the way. I wonder if he'll have changed his mind?)
Ed
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 7:50:54 am EDT from 213.187.39.126

Thanks for posting your ramble/review, Ed!

I've got my own ramble/review of #1 up at Ask Greg, as well, including my analysis of Castaway's recruitment speech. I still enjoy all the ironies in that one.

Note that the in-story reason why Banquo never finishes the crude five-letter word that he was calling Elisa is that Elisa wallops him a good one. That reminded me of the very early days of TGS, when the TGS staff was coming up with a story about Castaway kidnapping Elisa as bait for a trap for Goliath, and somebody speculated on him using that same word for Elisa (having become aware of her feelings for Goliath) and wondered if we could get it past S&P. Another of the staff members commented that if Castaway was going to call Elisa that, he'd better make certain that she was being held securely at the time, or he'd find out in a hurry how hard she can punch.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Jul 16, 2006 7:12:59 am EDT from 4.244.213.162

This isn't a video I made, but amusing still
Set to the song 1985, but the creator of the video asks the viewer to think they mean 985 and its about Demona

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTPl3CHgQs4
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 11:25:48 pm EDT from 65.33.46.79

I don't know. As far as the excess cleavage is concerned, I write that off as Hedgecock trying to get a feel for what exactly it is he's trying to do. I just hope he gets it by Issue #3.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Do you think I've come this far just to let you stop me now?!" -Demona ("Temptation")
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 10:59:55 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Greetings all...

So far the comments on the first issue of the new comic have been... interesting, and varied to say the most. I'm hoping I can get a copy soon enough, though at the moment real-life prevents me from getting it at this time. Here's hoping Greg and SLG have continued success with the coming issues.

I also wanted to let Christine and the Gathering Staff know that I got my contributor's copy of the Grimorum Arcanorum Anthology in the mail today. It looks fantastic, and the stories I've been reading are good. Kudos to everyone that contributed fiction and artwork to this volume, and many thanks to everyone that signed my copy.

Everyone be safe and take care.


Maintain and Check Six!
Stephen Sobotka Jr
Feel the rain on your skin. No one else can feel it for you, only you can let it in. No one else... can speak the words on your lips. Drench yourself in words unspoken. Live your life with arms wide open. Today is where your book begins... The rest is still unwritten.
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 10:40:51 pm EDT from 24.94.159.208

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury> ComicCon 06' will be on shown on G4 on "Attack of the Show" (I don't remember the dates) Perhaps we will see Greg Weisman if the camera is moved to the right place.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
LEEEEEERRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS is my idol!
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 8:20:38 pm EDT from 69.231.230.186

I've written a review/ramble on the comic for Ask Greg. I thought I'd post it here as well.


GARGOYLES #1.

My review/ramble.

But first, a moment of glee. It's 'Gargoyles'! In a comic! By Greg! For real! Magnificent! Big, big, big thanks to all the people who made it happen.


'NIGHTWATCH'

I think I always kind of overlooked 'The Journey'. I always liked it, but it was always a bit of an odd duck, stapled onto the front of a season I didn't care for, a second ending after 'Hunter's Moon' which was an immensely satisfying conclusion. So now it's been many, many years since I saw the episode and although I can still rattle off most of the lines by heart, I'm still coming at it with something of a fresh perspective and, to some extent, seeing it as a creature in its own right rather than 'the last one before TGC' or 'the one after the Hunters'. A few things strike me.

Most obviously, 'Nightwatch' is really very dark indeed. Well, obviously. But there's no talk of journeys or Vinnie's redemption at this point, and read with David Hedgecock and Will Terrell's gloomy take on the city, it really does feel much more oppressive than the optimistic world Elisa introduced Goliath back in '94. It also puts the world tour in perspective a little for me, as seen against the long period where the show had been becoming much brighter and more optimistic than it had been before - the clan isn't alone! Goliath has a daughter! Heroes are awakening to their destiny! - the darker turn seems fitting and I'm interested to see how everything develops once the initial shock fades.

Right now in this issue there's a sense that the walls are coming in. No Faeries or robots or magic or many of the more fantastical elements of the show. No grand romantic statements from the leads, just affection in small ways - comforting each other. And the story says a lot about humans, and humans under fire. Fear, knee-jerk panic, anger, prejudice. It's very raw - especially since we don't have the balance offered by Vinnie's decision yet. It's also a little eerie to return to this story for the first time since some of the major terrorist attacks of the last few years: the story is, after all, in the wake of a major attack on a New York building, and I think the script captures that heady uncertainty of a long, dark night where the news is on loop and the world's turned upside down and everything doesn't seem quite so safe any more.

Despite what might have been a very choppy narrative, all the plots are beautifully intertwined: the newsreaders, the Quarrymen, the cops, the gargoyles, Xanatos and Elisa. Most of the supporting characters have only a couple of lines but each suggests a completely different take on "the gargoyles issue". The people investigating it, the people hiding the gargoyles, the people concerned for their families, the people hunting the gargoyles for vengeance, for pleasure, or worry, for a sense of social activism, out of a concern about science, the gargoyles wanting to keep a low profile, wanting to go about their business, and so on. Different characters, different viewpoints, different loyalties and agendas and levels of information - it's just incredibly sharp stuff. And the people who seemed to be comedy extras in past episodes are now active and outspoken and shaping events: in fact, thanks to the Nightwatch framing the gargoyles are presented as intruders into their life stories instead of the other way around as it's seemed in the past. It's intricate and marvelous.

The Hedgecock/Terrell Gargoylesverse feels a little murkier than we're used to. Part of this is the less distinct backgrounds in places, the more sketchy style; partly the colouring. It's a great interpretation of this script which fits the post-'Hunter's Moon' New York: a little stunned, a little on edge, a little depressed. But I can't help but think back to 'Awakening' and Elisa's comments on the beauty in the city. Although this episode is very bleak, I hope that at some stage when the shock of the gargoyles revelation dies down we'll get to see New York in a context that's a little less 'Gotham'.

But it's still lovely. The colours are moody and ominous, the art revels in the small scenes - I love Matt & Chavez and Elisa & Cagney; and the emotions of the characters in their normal conversations. The action seems to be very tightly framed with lots of close-ups, which gives the emotional stuff a lot of clout (which I love), though the fight scene felt perhaps a bit cramped in places and in the 'louder' scenes the characters seem slightly exaggerated in places.

All in all, I was very impressed by how much 'Nightwatch' got under my skin, even all these years after having seen 'The Journey'. While I always liked the episode, I would definitely rate this issue alongside my very favourites from the first two seasons for its sheer complexity and ambition and its sense of fear and confusion and hurt and a hundred emotions jumbled up.


RANDOM THOUGHTS

- Adapting 'The Journey' works really well as a starting point. There's a lot going on in it and I wasn't sure it wouldn't become overwhelming to a new or casual fan of the sort I'm trying to hook on the comic. But I think most of the roles are pretty obvious (benefactor, cops, etc.) even if you're just looking with no pre-conceived ideas. A couple of the continuity references might be more of a stretch (I wonder what people who haven't seen 'Vendettas' will make of the banana cream pie!). But we only really see much of Goliath and Elisa at this point, and the social situation the gargoyles are being flung into is well-realised and a compelling entry point.

- The Art & Lois scene is new to me and it's very effective. It's funny because I saw the previews for this which ended with Goliath flying into a rage and although I was excited to read it, I had no preconceptions about what might follow. I just didn't really think about it, I wanted to wait and see it 'for real'. But somehow I found myself pleasantly surprised by Goliath's solution. It's not a new solution for him ('Deadly Force' and other episodes obviously spring to mind), but it's an effective one, a peaceful one, a dignified one, and it really gets to the nub of Goliath's character at a very early point. I like that even after feeling I've known the character for a decade, he can still pleasantly surprise me by, literally, his grace under fire.

- The monstrous Quarrymen-designed gargoyle amused me. Didn't the TGC version have an actual replica of Goliath or something? I always assumed Jon Canmore had it for some reason, or the Illuminati had provided it or something along those lines, but it seems more credible that the Quarrymen mock-up would just be a plain old scary monster. So now I'm guessing they used Goliath in the TGC version to save the cost of drawing up a new stone model? It also explains why the Quarrymen didn't recognise Goliath on the rooftop later (though Banquo ought to have, I'd have thought).

- Grigori, not Gregorino? Or is Vinnie just assuming an alias in case the Quarrymen are as unsavoury as he seems to fear even at this early stage? In any case, I like the name Grigori. It's got the in-joke, but it's not intrusive.

- Speaking of the Quarrymen, I always had trouble making out the line "no way you're fighting this hard if stone-face weren't the real thing..." in the cartoon. It sounded like "heart of stone" something. I think I worked it out eventually (or perhaps through Blaqthorne & Crimson Fury's transcript) but it's nice to see it in the text. And Banquo nearly said 'whore'. I guess this scene was one of the punch-to-the-face moments that was possible in S2 but which TGC got stopped from doing.

- The titles took a long while to grab me. I now quite like 'Nightwatch'; it seems to resonate on a lot of levels. 'Clan-Building' is kind of dull still. I admit, the traditionalist in me would kind of like it to be "The Journey" Part 1 & 2... 'just like 'real' episodes!'. Going to have to get used to the fact that it's a comic now. 'The Journey' was one of my favourite titles in the series, and although I realise it would probably not make much sense for #1 (since it's only really explained right at the end), I still really like it. I hope Part 2 is called 'The Journey'. Also, the nerd in me misses the nice, blue title font - it always gave me that 'new episode buzz' in the good old days, especially when a "part one" or something popped up after the first titles, and so it has a strong sentimental value. Okay, okay, I'll shut up about the titles now.

- Greg Guler's cover is ace. The colours are wonderful too. Deep and crisp and gorgeous.

- Also, on the colouring front, I especially liked the transition from day to sunset to night, with a darker twilight than the show sometimes had. There's a lot more red used in the comic as a whole than I remember of the cartoon and that gives a different flavour to scenes like the Quarrymen mob scene especially - maybe it makes it a little too on-the-nose, I'm not sure. I kind of liked my recollection of it with cool colours predominating -- the banality of evil or something like that.

- I felt the sweatdrop on Art was a bit on the cartoony side. I think 'Gargoyles' works best when it's kind of understated.

- I really love the page where Goliath flies over the head of Vinnie. A really memorable, iconic image. The original cartoon did this sort of thing a lot but with cuts and silhouettes and odd angles; the shape of an animation frame obviously isn't really useful for this sort of thing. This image is to me a nice encapsulation of... well, the series. Gargoyles trying to live their lives watching over humans who are blundering around uncertainly in the dark.

- One thing that I'm unsure about is the portrayal of Castaway, just in terms of artwork. He's very animated here - his hands-on-hips introduction, his psychotic expressions. This is where it's a case of me being used to one interpretation (the cartoon's) and suddenly questioning what I had assumed: how stable is Castaway? He's obviously not such a fruitcake that he puts off scared citizens from joining a violent organisation, but then again he set up the Quarrymen in the first place. Jon Canmore seemed to keep things close to his chest and then snapped. Does Castaway return to Canmore's very repressed attitude, or will his anger always be as close to the surface as some scenes here? My memories of the cartoon are quite different from the tone of the art here; the latter much angrier and more forceful and animated, the former slicker and more comforting. Incidentally, this is one of the best and most powerful speeches in the series. I just love the way the theme of community and 'aloneness' is threaded through the series.

- And one bare-faced quibble on the 'About Greg Weisman' page... it's 'Talespin', not 'Tail Spin'! Grr! :)
Ed
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 7:52:30 pm EDT from 213.187.39.126

Todd, I also loved Goliath's comment to Art. He can be so stoic and quiet, but his humor was great.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 7:40:26 pm EDT from 65.33.46.79

Has anyone else seen the ads for the San Diego Comic Con being televised on, I think, G4? I wonder if Greg is going to make an appearance.

There was a panty shot? I had to go back and skim through it to see it since I didn't even notice it before. Maybe they were daisy dukes.
I don't remember Hudson being so emaciated. What's with that god-awful Xanatos, and who is that person referred to as Matt Bluestone? Wow, when I actually looked at the artwork (I didn't really pay much attention to it when I first read it), a lot of it is quite horrible.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 7:25:40 pm EDT from 207.207.40.9

The issue of Gargoyles #1 that I'd ordered from Amazon.com finally arrived in the mail today. Not that many surprises in it, since it was based on the first half of "The Journey", but I still enjoyed reading it. (One thing that was new to me, and which I got a kick out of, was Vinnie's little comments during Castaway's big recruitment speech, such as when Castaway asks the crowd if they're afraid of the gargoyles abducting their children, most of them shout "Yes!", and Vinnie says, "Well, I don't got kids, but....")

I also got a kick out of the scene where Goliath tells Art that he can have his gun back - after having twisted it into a spiral shape. You don't see Goliath making jokes too often, but you certainly remember it when he does.

Now to find a better way of buying issue #2 when it comes out, rather than having a long wait for Amazon.com to get its copies in....
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 6:35:14 pm EDT from 4.244.18.99

Yeah, the almost whore line was a great addition. Gargoyles was held back by Disney and tv ratings. In the comics, they can take more liberties to not only be more realistic, but slightly more adult. I certainly wouldn't want to see it turn into a XXX rated comic, but cursing, bigger breasts, and panty shots don't bother me and I kinda like it. Look at Xanatos' Hell line in the first episode. For those who didn't see this coming, shame. Slave Labor isn't exactly kiddie-fare. And most comics have adult themes. From Marvel to DC. Heck, I've seen these comics deal with issues from abortion to homosexuality. Gargoyles as an animated show when the kids were home from school could never reveal Lexington to be gay....but the comic can make it happen.
Did they sell-out by doing everything else the other comics do? panty-shots, bigger boobs....maybe a SLIGHT bit, but to me, not really. If Gargoyles was always a comic book and never a TV series, we would have saw this stuff a long time ago.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 6:11:45 pm EDT from 65.33.46.79

Anonymous> Well, I wouldn't say I'm "enlightened", but I do have something you don't. Something you are obviously, severely lacking. Balls.

Sign your name to your post, and then maybe I'll take you seriously.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Brave words for a man who hides his face behind a hood." - Goliath, "The Journey"
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 5:52:42 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

"Dirty, monster loving wh---"

Cut off by Elisa punching him in the face. Yep, there is no doubt what Banquo was about to say.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 4:08:36 pm EDT from 68.199.4.45

I agree with Siren about the panties. That all that matters is that Gargoyles is back after 10 long years. I was more surprised with the quarryman almost calling Elisa a whore though. (Or I think that was what he almost said)
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
LEEEEEERRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS is my idol!
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 3:59:22 pm EDT from 69.231.230.186

dph_of_rules> Yes. There are two different Siren/Siryns. I've always used green and she always used red
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 3:40:57 pm EDT from 65.33.46.79

I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd be shocked and disappointed if there was an up-kilt shot of Macbeth and he was wearing boxers ...
Christine
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 1:33:48 pm EDT from 71.121.148.217

Makhasu - Ahh, yes. I see your point. Combining the two panty shots with a pair of hooters which have miraculously changed sizes... I can see why you thought that. Of course, in some of the panels, her breasts looked to be a normal size, so I'm not sure if the breast size switch was intentional or not. In the panels I saw when she was wearing her red jacket, they looked to be normal; in the panels where she was in her dress, they looked HUGE at worst, a bit bigger than they ought to have been at least.

And considering all the complaints voiced about the art in the comic, I would probably chalk it up to being an "artist error" as opposed to an intentional breast enhancement. I'm not saying anything either way; it could be an error, it could not be, and I'll keep my thoughts to myself on what I think about the seeming sexified Elisa.

And I do completely agree with you on the fact that that sort of stuff is overused in comics. I dislike the "There must be sex, guns, and hot people to make it sell" mindset. Large breasts, beautiful women, handsome men, things blowing up, etc, etc - it irritates me. On the other hand, I see no problem with using those methods as a means to pull in some new blood; some people may be initially drawn to the good looking woman and the panty shot, and in some cases it's possible that, having been caught first by that, they'll get into the story itself.

Sometimes, in order to grab someone's attention, you have to use means that you don't really like. Her breasts may get larger, and you may see some panty shots, but those do not dictate who and what Elisa is; breast size, while making men drool, does not make a woman - thus why it doesn't bother me too much to see a small nudge towards the sex object direction. I personally don't like it, but what's done is done, and what will be will be, and so long as the character itself doesn't take a turn for the worst I'll be okay with it.

That being said, I dislike the breast size, but I'm willing to go along with it if it does help the comic sell - providing it doesn't ruin the character itself, which I'm sure it won't -, and I'm not entirely sure if it was done on purpose or if it was an "artist error", so until I see the next issue, I'll stay quiet about it. Wait and see what happens.

BTW, I think what Greg B. meant by the comic and Gargoyles being unnecessary, is that in the long run, the comic book industry is unnecessary. Same with cartoons, and McDonald's. We don't really NEED them like we need food and water, and a roof over our heads. Restaurants are necessary because they provide food (I'm not including fast food as a restaurant, because that stuff is nasty and I don't really consider it to be food). Clothing shops exist because we need clothes. Cartoons and comics are merely a form of entertainment, and aren't necessary like other things are. Not necessary to survive, and not even to live well. If there was no comic industry, people would just work other jobs, or create other jobs.

Remember the past? They didn't have cartoons or comics back then. Cavemen didn't need that stuff to live a good life. So in a sense, comics, and Gargoyles is unnecessary, since we don't need them to live, or to live well. Comics do provide a means of living and paying the bills, for those who work in the industry, but if it didn't exist those people would simply be working elsewhere.

But that's just what I think. ^^;
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 12:52:39 pm EDT from 69.157.14.20

*blinks eyes* There's a "siren" who posts in green and a "siryn" who posts in red?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 12:11:08 pm EDT from 63.232.255.142

There's a panty shot in the Gargoyles comi? *blinks and looks* Heh...go fig.

Alright, obviously, I didn't really notice one. I actually have had this discussion before (about Bleedman's use of panty shots in his comic). Personally, I have no problem when panty shots are used in a non-sexual, inobtrusive way. (And...even if they are..depends on the storyline, dialogue, situation). I agree there _ARE_ demeaning material, but I didn't hardly notice Elisa in her underwear...

I think Elisa's breast size was a bit 'large', but did I feel that the comic was directly catering towards male whims? Not really. Never gave me that impression. And as people said, keep it in context...Elisa DID just get out of bed. This isn't a situation where someone is grabbing her skirt and shoving it up or someone looking up it.

There's a LOT worse portrayed in comics..so I think this rates extremely low on the voyerism scale. :) Just my thoughts though. ^_^
Siryn
Vinnie Grigori's #1 Fan!
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 11:55:10 am EDT from 69.253.58.69

I personally don't care about the panties thing. I'm suprised they were white. I figured Elisa to have more colorful ones. But eh. Gargoyles is back. Greg Weisman is writing it. I am happy as a clam. I don't care that Elisa's breasts look bigger, or that she wears white underwear, or that people have a problem with it. I'm not buying and reading the comic book solely for the pictures, but rather, the story content. Because Greg is writing it. If he was punching out novels instead of comic books, I'd be equally as happy. I don't understand why some people care about the panty shots. Even though I am a woman, it doesn't bother me. It just shows a more realistic approach. When I wear a t-shirt to bed, I'm showing off a bit of my ass too, I just wish my ass looked that good.

Not to change the subject...but okay, let's try to change it....The nightshirt Elisa was wearing, the sports shirt...looked big on her, think it might have been Derek's?
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 9:45:14 am EDT from 65.33.46.79

Greg Bishansky> My friend, let me tell YOU something. And what the hell was the point of that line, anyway? What are you, the source of all enlightenment? That's a poor attempt at ha-ha funny. You changed the reference point from what's necessary for the comic to what's necessary to sustain human life.
I'll argue that Gargoyles and the comic are in fact necessary. Unless you're subsistance farming (and producing all your own clothing and building your own abode), you need something to peddle in order to obtain these items. For those in the comic industry, comics are their best means to go about this. In order for there to be a comic, one needs an idea to fill the pages with. Gargoyles fills such a role; and with an existant fan base already in place, Gargoyles would be just as good a choice as, or probably better choice than, completely new material. So, I say that the Gargoyles comic is indeed a necessity.
Anonymous
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 6:23:25 am EDT from 207.207.40.9

Perhaps I should elaborate a bit more on what I meant. I didn't expect such a quick response to my post, so I didn't go as indepth as I maybe should've. It wasn't the first panty shot so much that bothered me, since she had just awakened. It was the combination of that, the second one, the breast enhancements (especially in the first panel of her in the dress), etc... It just seemed like she had been used to garner more male attention. It's just as easy for an artist not to flash her panties when she's fighting as it is for them to show. It really jars a scene for me when a female character is fighting and her skirt flutters up enough to get a glimpse of underwear. It's SO common in comics and anime... and so rare for it to occur with males (in robes, kimonos, or similar outfits that could 'flutter up').

Greg Biskansky - "I love that word, "Unnecessary". My friend, let me tell you something. The whole comic is "unnecessary". Gargoyles is "unnecessary". Cartoons and comics are "unnecessary."
*rolls eyes* That was a pretty unnecessary comment.

Purplegoldfish - "I was actually more distracted by Elisa's breasts. Is it just me, or have they doubled in size since the cartoon? 0_o"
I think so. In certain shots, they're as big as her head.

The Sadistic Cow - "it's kind of weird to think (at least, to me) that you would protest against a panty shot in the comic and ignore the boxer shots of the men in "Her Brother's Keeper" on the television. Seeing as how, when you get right down to it, it's the exact same thing."
If it was just the first panel when she wakes up, I'd agree with you. But it's that mixed with the other things I mentioned above.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
I am the cheese.
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 3:14:23 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

Patrick - '007.. I noticed. ;)
Y2Hecate - [y2hecate@gmail.com]
Shaken, not stirred.
posted @ Sat, Jul 15, 2006 12:45:41 am EDT from 172.161.203.63

Purplegoldfish> Yeah I agree. I think Elisa got implants right after Hunter's Moon.

The panty thing doesn't bother me. She wears socks, pj's and underwear just like me! If anything, I think it emphasizes the fact that she is an average human woman. It's like a parallel to consistently seeing the gargoyles waking up and turning to stone, which is something that emphasizes that they are not human; they're not these guys with plastic wings or whatever. In many ways, the panties and the stone thing are like subconscious reminders that Goliath and Elisa are different, and that having a romantic relationship will be challenging. That's just my take on it. So yeah, in summary panties are ok :0)
Mayelin - [dulcemiel83@aim.com]
Mayelin Gonzalez
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 9:37:13 pm EDT from 67.83.33.17

And I am a retard for not only typing my comment in the name field, but also forgetting to remove it after I put it in the RIGHT field. >.<
Leo
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 8:21:31 pm EDT from 68.107.154.71

Like Siren, I didn't even notice the panties until they were brought up in here. Of course, I'm a gay male so perhaps I'm not so attuned to such things. I did notice Elisa's cleavage was more apparent however.
And again, like Siren, I think that compared to the Marvel comic, this was quite G-rated. Don't forget that at one point in the Marvel comic Elisa dressed up as a prostitute.
And btw Siren, I loved the Hunter's Moion trailer. Very poignant.
Anyway, I hope to do a ramble on Issue 1 sometime. Or, are we doing that?
Matt
"C is for cookie. That's good enough for me." - Cookie Monster
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 8:19:42 pm EDT from 70.230.148.7

Yeah, showing all those male characters in their underware was just demeaning and unnecesary. :-P
Yeah, just like the locker room scene in "Her Brother's Keeper." Showing all those male characters in their underware was just demeaning and unnecesary. Leo
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 8:19:34 pm EDT from 68.107.154.71

Makhasu - I don't really see a difference between the panty shots in the comic than the scene in the men's locker room in "Her Brother's Keeper". It's the same thing, really; only difference being that it's boxers on men being shown as opposed to underwear on a woman.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's kind of stupid that people would protest against a woman's panty shot in a comic, yet at the same time say nothing about seeing a bunch of guys in THEIR undies in a cartoon that is available to everyone.

Considering that cartoons are on television - which has a wider range of people seeing it - and comics aren't quite as "out there" as a cartoon on t.v., having - as far as I'm aware - a smaller viewing, it's kind of weird to think (at least, to me) that you would protest against a panty shot in the comic and ignore the boxer shots of the men in "Her Brother's Keeper" on the television. Seeing as how, when you get right down to it, it's the exact same thing.

*shrugs* I see no issue with the panty shot, personally. But that's just me. :)
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 8:17:19 pm EDT from 69.157.14.20

Today's the day when everyone who owns a copy of the much-underrated Rush album "Caress of Steel" should listen to the first track really loud. Almost forgot what day it was.

As far as the comic is concerned, I think the scene of Art shooting at Goliath indicates that certain restrictions no longer apply (or can be bent even farther). New medium, so you've got to expect that. Me, I tried sleeping with pants on once. Worst night of my life, man. Anyway, long story short, I think considering the context, it wasn't inappropriate.

Makhasu: So I guess that means he married her for money. That, or she proposed to him. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Hear the echoes of the centuries. Power isn't all that money buys." -Rush ("Bastille Day")
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 8:10:57 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

I have no problem with the panty shot. I was a bit surprised when I first saw it, but it reflects what was going on. Elisa had just gotten up and she was relaxed and waiting for nightfall. I think the big thing is it's not what you'd see if it was a cartoon; she'd probably have shorts on. I don't see it as a big deal.

*must read Hunter's Moon ramble*
Asatira
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 7:10:35 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

Greg's got pre-ramble posts on "Hunter's Moon" up at "Ask Greg", focusing on the way it was when they were originally planning it to be a straight-to-video release. (One interesting tidbit: originally it was going to be Demona who would cripple Jason. I'm glad that they changed it to Jon; it made a much more effective scene.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 6:52:58 pm EDT from 4.245.20.162

All this critizing of the comic book about clothes...has anyone looked at the Marvel version? Elisa and Demona got some surgery on the chest there. And the gargoyles are most muscular. Not to mention, the show itself showed a LOT of skin...gargoyle skin no-less, but still, Demona wasn't exactly dressed to fly in business class, with her ripped up quarter-shirt and loincloth.

Showing a little panties is in apparently. Just look at other comics. If it gets more people to buy the comic and like it for the story and buy more later, then so be it. Doesn't bother me any. I didn't even notice the first time I read it.
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 6:39:04 pm EDT from 65.33.46.79

Yay finally got my comics in the mail today. I cancelled my order from Amazon and ordered directly from SLG. I'm pretty happy with it overall-it seems so short though...

We only get six a year, and that's an average of three "episodes" a year. Oh well, I know it's a lot better than nothing.

panties shots: meh, whatever sells the thing I guess-the pictures are really nothing much to write home about though. I was actually more distracted by Elisa's breasts. Is it just me, or have they doubled in size since the cartoon? 0_o
Purplegoldfish - [Skydragonn@aol.com]
I can't think of a signature
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 6:32:00 pm EDT from 152.163.100.14

Thank you all :D
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 6:11:20 pm EDT from 65.33.46.79

There's another comment board I visit where several people were practically wetting themselves over the Elisa panty shots in the comic book. Not all of them were teenage boys, either. Some were known to me beyond all doubt as adult women.

I wonder if this is an aspect of the comic that Greg has much control over. Does he write and give panel by panel direction on what is to be shown, or does David Hedgecock have the freedom to visualize things on his own? I'm just not familiar enough with how things normally work in the world of comic books to guess at how "Gargoyles" is being handled.

Am I the first one to notice that next year could be known as "The Gathering '007"? Hmm... "The name's Xanatos. David Xanatos."

343 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering '007]
"Vodka martini. Shaken, not stirred." - Bond, James Bond
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 1:08:31 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Greg Bishansky> Eat, shelter, oxygen? Sounds like a boring world, to me.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 10:51:51 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Whether or not a panty shot is a "problem" depends on if it's reflecting on the character in a way that isn't consistent with their usual portrayal.

Remember the ep when Elisa goes undercover in the bustier and sexy outfit? If she were wearing that in an average episode, I would find it inappropriate for the character. But since she was undercover, the sexy outfit made sense for the role she was playing.

I don't mind panties (or boxers) if the character is disheveled from getting out of bed, or at an angle where you'd reasonably be able to see up Macbeth's kilt or what have you. That's different from suggesting that Elisa is the kind of person who'd wear a micromini so she can flash her panties at everyone.

Now, if those angles occur every other picture, then there might be a problem.

I don't think we have much danger of Elisa being portrayed as a sex object in this series.
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 10:33:25 am EDT from 142.167.198.168

<< I hate it when female comic or cartoon characters have flashes of their panties shown here and there. It's just plain demeaning and completely unnecessary. I hope that doesn't become a common event in the comic. >=(>>

I love that word, "Unnecessary". My friend, let me tell you something. The whole comic is "unnecessary". Gargoyles is "unnecessary". Cartoons and comics are "unnecessary."

The only things in the world that are "necessary" are food, water, shelter and oxygen.

As for "demeaning". It's a panty shot, for crying out loud. We just saw Elisa get out of bed... what should she be wearing? It's not like she was sleeping in the nude (though, according to Greg at this year's Blue Mug A Guest, Dominique sleeps in the nude. ;)). Just my personal viewpoint, but I think you're getting worked up over nothing.

Greg isn't going to push the envelope in the comic for the sake of pushing the envelope, but, it being a comic, he has less S&P to deal with. For example, if he were to kill off a character, he could probably do it without having to deal with the Disney "Fall to the Death" death.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Tenth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Plato once said that for everything that exists, there is a perfect form of it somewhere. A perfect human being, a perfect chair, a perfect stick, so that everything is a shadow of that one perfect form. Now, if we follow that train of thought, that means that somewhere in the universe there exists the perfect form of the absolute and complete idiot and he left here an hour ago." - Matthew Gideon
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 10:28:02 am EDT from 68.199.4.45

Gorebash> No worries. Sorry If I'm being a pain, I wasn't sure if real life had just grabbed you by the ears and flung you crashing into the wall or something? O.o (BTw, luv luv your LJ blogs)

And.. I converted three closet fans yesterday!! Mwhaha. AND told them about the convention and DVDs.. so now they want to come to the Gathering as long as they have money. (But since we're all close by... ROADTRIP!)

hehe.
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Vinnie Grigori's #1 fan!
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 8:23:10 am EDT from 65.185.9.61

A couple of pieces of good news. One is that, while there are no comic stores in my immediate neighborhood (within walking distance from my apartment), there are a few that I've visited by bus in other parts of St. Louis, and, on checking Slave Labor Graphics' website, I found that they're all on its retail list. So I can go to one of them by bus the next time that I have an opportunity and see about ordering the Gargoyles comics there.

Also, I did the tracking check on the comic that I'd ordered from Amazon.com and noticed that it had made some progress by this morning (and is now even in Missouri) so it hasn't been lost after all.

Re Gathering reports: I will confess that I regard the low number of them at "Ask Greg" with mixed feelings. While I agree that it's a disappointingly small number, at the same time, the queue is still so large (and it's been a little over a week since Greg actually answered a question), and such a substantial percentage of the queue is Gathering reports (and DVD reviews) rather than questions (even the "already been asked umpteem times" variety of question), I'm nervous about the queue growing even larger, and would like to see Greg have the opportunity to whittle its length down some.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 7:52:36 am EDT from 4.244.208.114

I was just rereading Gargoyles #1, and began to get rather irritated by the end of it. In two of the panels, Elisa's panties are showing. The panels aren't particularly revealing or sexualized, but it's not something I'd have expected from Gargoyles. I hate it when female comic or cartoon characters have flashes of their panties shown here and there. It's just plain demeaning and completely unnecessary. I hope that doesn't become a common event in the comic. >=(

Siren - Awesome trailer! I watched it three times. I love the way you wove the lines with the footage, creating a dramatic narrative. I work on music videos myself, have watched at least a thousand of them, and yours are the best I've seen in the Gargoyles fandom.

Harvester of Eyes - "Maybe Brendan married her for money. Otherwise, he's a shitty judge of character." Brendan's a cowardly cretin himself. In COS, when Lexington approached them, he hid behind Margot. What kind've guy hides behind his wife when he thinks they're in danger? That scene made me lose any pity for him.
Makhasu - [aknellthatsummonsthee@yahoo.com]
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 4:01:07 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

DL-- ... O_o ... -_- Yeah. I'll play it safe and just echo what Patrick said. Each Gathering has a staff that organizes it. They don't just happen spontaneously.

And yes, if you want the Gathering to be held in a certain place that badly, you should probably assemble a staff and put in a bid. Though I highly recommend that you turn 18 first.
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Fri, Jul 14, 2006 2:17:08 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Siren> Oh my goodness! The trailer for Hunter's Moon is totally awesome. It's like so beyond cool. My eye's were only inches from the computer screen when I was watching it, and I was biting my nails, too :0) Now I really wish that I had recorded those episodes with one of those VCR things from back in the day :0p (I don't have Toon Disney, and that really really sucks for me right now...oh well)
Mayelin - [dulcemiel83@aim.com]
Mayelin Gonzalez
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 11:38:45 pm EDT from 67.83.33.17

I know I posted my con journal in Ask Greg.

Amazon: this is why I will always search out the nearest comics store whenever I move someplace new. I can't really picture stores like Amazon being good for recurring publications like comics unless they're from big publishers.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 11:35:04 pm EDT from 68.117.246.81

The Gathering doesn't run itself. Of course it has a staff.

I still need to finish my con journal. I have Monday and Tuesday still left.

344 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2006 Goodies]
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 9:41:20 pm EDT from 70.229.201.96

Do I have good timing or what? Here's mine!
Christine - [<----- Christine's Gathering report!]
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 9:35:05 pm EDT from 71.121.148.217

Hey gang,

Todd informs me that only 13 people have posted conjournals at ASK GREG. Thirteen? Out of over three hundred? Can't we do better than that?

If you attended the con and have already done a Gathering ConJournal somewhere else, please cut and paste it to ASK GREG. And if you haven't written yours up yet, please write up at least an abbreviated version now before the details get even hazier.

And SPREAD THE WORD about this too, to anyone you know who attended but hasn't posted.

It is important! (Or at least it has been important in the past.)

Thanks!
Greg Weisman
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 8:30:46 pm EDT from 72.25.64.98

Kyt, I have forgotten that there was a staff for the gatherngs. I am not even sure on how to make contact. Hmmmmm...
I am having trouble downloading the garg theme. Are there other places to get it?
If there is anyone who would like to contribute pomes about eps,chars, or anything on gargoyles please send them to www.poetry.net. You can win trips, scholarships, cash, and all sorts of great prizes for participation.
Oh Kyt, Do i really have to bid on a gathering in a certian place?
demonic lover - [broad23way@yahoo.com]
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 8:23:45 pm EDT from 205.188.117.68

Greg's got his ramble for "Possession" up now. All that's left is "Hunter's Moon" and "The Journey", and then he'll be done.

One small thing that worries me a little: the tracker for the Gargoyles #1 that I ordered from Amazon.com hasn't traced the comic's progress in the mail since yesterday morning. I hope that it hasn't gotten lost or stolen.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 7:43:27 pm EDT from 4.244.18.118

I wonder if the Weird Sisters might have had sometihng to do with Margot Yale's not remembering gargoyles can talk, at least inadvently. Maybe the sisters do something magical unconsciously when they make an exit like they did in that scene that effected Margot.
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Remember the old Gargoyles comics!
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 5:25:41 pm EDT from 69.54.209.80

Amazon>>
How about THIS:
Shipment Date: Jul 13, 2006
Destination: (EDIT: West Central Florida --JJ) United States
Estimated Arrival: Aug 26, 2006
I know I chose the Super Saver option, but *over* *a* *month* in transit? That can't be right. Here's hoping that is just a display glitch.

Peanuts, from way back>> The sad thing is, I can see almost see Brookyn as a teenaged Charlie Brown, the way things were going. :Sigh:
JJ Gregarius
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 3:02:46 pm EDT from 206.57.93.104

Siryn: The blog thing is happening. I need to rewrite it though. I need free time be able to rewrite it and that's proved a little more difficult than I first anticipated. I've got Monday off and I'm hoping to do it then.
Gorebash
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 9:23:38 am EDT from 207.206.239.231

And, sorry for the double-post, but now I'm wondering whether, if Greg Weisman ever gets to make "Bad Guys" and there's a scene in it at some point involving an opera, that opera would be Verdi's "Falstaff". (Maybe a bit of a stretch, since that one was based on "The Merry Wives of Windsor" rather than the Henry IV plays where Prince Hal appears.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 7:48:59 am EDT from 4.244.211.80

HARVESTER - Yep, I've wondered about how Margot believes that the gargoyles are unintelligent creatures when she heard them speak in, at least, "City of Stone". Maybe she classifies it as the same sort of thing as parrots speaking. Or maybe she believed that it was a hallucination induced by the terror of her situation (first, being held hostage by bank robbers, and then seeing a battle between those bank robbers and a group of frightening bat-winged monsters).

Greg's posted the "preliminary" to "Possession" at "Ask Greg" (the original outline of that episode), which includes two juicy little tidbits:

1. In the original outline, during the opening battle in the Himalayas, Coldstone was mistaken for a yeti by some bystanders.

2. Xanatos and Fox's activity for the evening was specifically described as attending a performance of Verdi's "Otello". Pity that that didn't get mentioned in the actual episode; it was *very* appropriate for a Coldstone story.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 7:40:48 am EDT from 4.244.211.80

Reno: Mycomicshop.com worked well for me, despite the fact that their cheapest shipping option is four bucks. Still, I might set a regular transaction up with them. You can also order bags from their site, which I'll need for the copies I won't be reading (of course, I don't know if anyone else is buying two copies of each issue).

Wingless: Ever hear of Arnold Layne? I heard he had a strange hobby...

Siryn: I'm under the impression that Margot is unwilling to regard the gargoyles as sentient beings. Which I honestly think is kind of interesting, since she has heard them speak. The only other animal capable of advanced vocal speech is man. But she also only really sees them when they're smashing through walls or ceilings and terrifying criminals. Maybe she considers them to be just beneath humans on the totem pole, like Sasquatch or something. I can't wait to see where Greg takes her in the comic.

And yeah, I've always felt she was a real bitch before "The Journey," as well. Maybe Brendan married her for money. Otherwise, he's a shitty judge of character. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good." -Pink Floyd
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 6:50:36 am EDT from 69.174.3.196

Siryn - <Yes is the answer.> Thank you for your response. I am going to assume that means that sales for the 1st issue are on track to reach the breakeven point on costs, which is very good to know.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 4:51:35 am EDT from 63.232.248.132

Harvester of Eyes: nice to know people remember who Syd Barrett was - let alone can quote vintage Pink Floyd.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Jul 13, 2006 4:41:11 am EDT from 70.27.173.142

Mayelin> Cool idea about the fan made commercials! :D I think that's a very cool idea!

Todd> I don't think it that Margo and Brandon are overused or people are getting tired of them, I was just using them as an example. That is to say that if any of our misc characters were going to be overused or disliked, I would think Margo would be first as opposed to Artie and Lois

Of course, mainly this is based on personal preference, because I think she's ALWAYS been mean, and her protrayal in the infamous non-canon third season.

Does she (as in Margo) just want the Gargoyles captured and studied? I never got that impression from her. O.o

Oracle> As I heard the 'rumor' or whisperings, Ellen is working on a Chicago bid for 2008.

DPH> Yes is the answer. <:)

Gore> Email me? ;D
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 10:28:41 pm EDT from 65.185.9.61

Todd: Oops. I guess I was just being lazy. Yeah, I placed my order in early June and just got it this past Monday. Well, it did take amazon.com a few weeks after the release date to finally get a graphic up for it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good." -Pink Floyd
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 8:55:02 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

HARVESTER - I mentioned it a few posts below, but - May 22.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 6:46:12 pm EDT from 4.244.215.17

Speaking of astronomy, let's have a moment of silence for Syd Barrett.

Todd: What day did you place your order? I remember mine taking close to a month to finally arrive.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"I've got a bike, you can ride it if you like. It's got a basket, a bell that rings, and things to make it look good." -Pink Floyd
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 5:28:44 pm EDT from 69.174.3.196

Shoot! Greg was in a convention in my hometown and I didn't even know it. The convention looked fun anyways, too. Oh well, I'm glad he enjoyed the local fare.
Lumpmoose - [lumpmoose@karpacrossamerica.com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 3:20:54 pm EDT from 128.101.32.152

Gorebash - I sent you an email a couple of days ago, asking some technical questions. If you can't answer those questions, please let me know and I will email somebody else.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 1:58:48 pm EDT from 63.232.255.180

Worth noting that today, July 12 (and on May 28th), the sun will set on the centerline of every street in Manhattan. This should make for an incredible view if the weather permits. Granted the view from atop the Eyrie is sweet every day of the year, today us norms on the ground floor get to participate as well.

Courtesy of the Astronomy Picture of the Day: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/
Gorebash
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 12:56:03 pm EDT from 207.206.239.231

Amazon.com's shipped the copy of #1 that I ordered at last, sending it out yesterday - but when I visited their site this morning for the tracking option (to get some idea as to roughly how many days it would take to arrive at my address), it said that the estimated date of arrival was July 7, 2006! Which was the same date that they'd originally given even before it was released. These folks could do with a dash more common-sense updating.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 7:27:01 am EDT from 4.244.215.126

Sorry for the double.
Does SLG offer subscriptions?
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 2:36:55 am EDT from 4.230.255.50

Jurgan: I know he didn't type it up himself because it's an EXACT copy from start to finish of what I did. I know he copied it from me because I know I typed it--I know because I watched myself do it. The issue I have (legal ownership has nothing to do with it) is that he hasn't credited me, nor asked me to post it on his page, since it took several hours of my time to type it up. And then to claim that his friend actually typed it up galls me. It's called moral integrity. I find it a bit funny that he used your argument about ownership while at the same time running a Disney fan-site chock full of unlicenced images and other property of Disney.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 1:47:21 am EDT from 4.230.255.50

Amazon's site now says the following for issue #1: Availability: Usually ships within 24 hours. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.

There's a comic store just a few blocks from my place... issue is SLG doesn't have them listed as a retailer... SLG's got a retailer in Mobile, and one in Madison... which doesn't help me out here in Birmingham. Both are at least 3 hours away.
Patricia Lovelady - [Patricia.Lovelady@gmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 1:36:57 am EDT from 71.82.7.207

I just completed my latest video...I never did get to a Season 2 DVD commercial, and actually this was suppost to be it, but it evolved in a different direction, instead being a trailer for Hunter's Moon. Click my name or copy/paste http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIIk-eZ0Lts
Siren - [Click my name for Hunter's Moon Trailer!]
posted @ Wed, Jul 12, 2006 12:23:44 am EDT from 65.33.46.79

Hey, folks!

Just a head's up that we still have some Gathering 2006 goodies left. We've got a few t-shirts left in Adult M, L, and XL. We're also taking orders through the end of the month for an additional print run of the Grimorum Arcanorum Anthology, which was in such demand that it completely sold out at the con. And finally, we have just five copies left of the Phoenix Gate Anthology from Gathering 2004. No more of those will ever be printed, so get 'em while you still can.

Prices for everything are the same as they were at the convention, with shipping included at no additional charge. Click the link below for our online ordering page.

346 days until The Gathering 2007 in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee!
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2006 Swag]
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 11:42:58 pm EDT from 70.229.201.96

Todd > "I just received word from them by e-mail that it's finally been shipped...I wonder if the "we weren't expecting to sell this many copies" could indeed have been the problem."

Hopefully you'll receive it soon! My copy arrived today by US mail (it was shipped Saturday). The return address is the amazon fullfillment center in Kentucky so you may get it in a day or two.

In a way these delays are good news (lots of books are selling) so perhaps more copies of issue #2 may be printed in the first run.

It was pretty exciting to finally hold it after reading so many comments about it. I have little to add; I agree the art varies a bit from page to page but that may settle down after a few issues. In some places Goliath seems to have really huge ears (but that's a minor nitpick). I like the darker color pallette; it seems right for the nigttime setting.

I never saw "The Journey" when it aired so it's fun to see this version.

Greg has posted some thoughts about CONvergence in Ask Greg:
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=478
Sounds like he enjoyed it!
Abby
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 10:20:42 pm EDT from 24.118.226.247

Sold out faster than anything else SLG had ever put out? That sounds very, very good....and I hope it keeps selling that well (though perhaps they will print more in the first run from here on?)
Stormy - [decepticoncommand@hotmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 9:32:26 pm EDT from 142.167.209.66

Hi Everyone. I thought I'd leave my mark here. I don't post on here too often but I really enjoy reading everyone's comments - my fave so far this week being about a Jane Eyre crossover :D. I hope everyone enjoyed the gathering and is well and happy.
Nikki xx
Nikki
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 7:39:19 pm EDT from 62.252.32.16

I'm still waiting for the comics I ordered from Amazon, though the fact that I ordered a bunch of copies might have something to do with it. I think from now on I'll be ordering at least one copy at the comic book stores and then order a bunch more from Amazon or directly from Slave Labor.
Where you are matters a lot, I think. When I was in San Francisco every place I went to had gotten some copies and quickly sold out. Here in St Louis, most comic stores never even ordered any at all.
Matt
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 7:36:45 pm EDT from 204.184.4.34

KAYLLE - I ordered it on or about May 22. I just received word from them by e-mail that it's finally been shipped, almost three weeks after it was published. I wonder if the "we weren't expecting to sell this many copies" could indeed have been the problem.

And, yep, I'm going to be looking into a better way of buying them than ordering from Amazon.com. Now if a comic book store would only appear within walking distance of my apartment....
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 6:44:21 pm EDT from 4.245.19.125

I got my comic about a week ago, and it was pretty awesome. Sure, I knew the story but it was good to hold something gargoyles and new in my hands. As for the rest of the comics. Yeah, I'm going to have to get a better way to have them than amazon, cause they kind of dropped the ball. Even if the warehouse is literally a mile down ther oad from my apartment.
Reno
Never send human to do a machine's job...
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 6:27:22 pm EDT from 71.83.112.249

I'm so so so so HAPPY. I just got my copy of the comic right now. I thought it was gona arrive in late August. But it's here! Excuse my intense elation, but it's just so cool to have it in my hands. I'm like holding it right now! (well not really cuz I'm typing :0)) I ordered this lovely little book about two weeks ago on Amazon. I was pretty disappointed when I found out that the estimated arrival was 7-8 weeks. But today I received a very pleasant surprise. YAY!!! I can't wait till issue #3.
Mayelin - [dulcemiel83@aim.com]
Mayelin Gonzalez
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 5:34:00 pm EDT from 67.83.33.17

Todd> I JUST got mine today from amazon after reserving it for two months. I was just about to cancel then it came in. Im suprized at the company because usually shipping.. at any cost comes in at a resonable time.
faytefire - [dragondreamer@comcast.net]
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 5:11:18 pm EDT from 71.234.169.135

Blaqthourne: How do you know this guy didn't just type up the script himself? What makes you so sure that he copied it from you? Even if he did, though, you have no rights to the script, as you just copied it from the movie in the first place. If you copied it from somebody else, then you can't complain when somebody copies it from you. On the other hand, if there was commentary of yours included in the script, then that's a whole other story. Was there anything original to you in the script?
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 2:13:03 pm EDT from 68.59.43.150

When did you place your order, Todd? My copy arrived from Amazon last week. Of course, by then I'd gotten impatient and gotten two more copies from local stores, but Amazon did eventually mail mine.

And the comic sold faster than anything SLG has ever published before? Wow. Just... wow. That would imply that even if sales are inflated somewhat with collectors buying the first issue, there are still lots of people buying the comic for its own sake. That's exciting!

Now if we could get them all to buy the DVD...
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
Kaylle
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 11:46:14 am EDT from 18.24.1.134

Todd> Amazon is usually NEVER this bad about shipping. I think it has to do with the ammount of Comics printed V. amount ordered.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
that is all I will say.
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 11:41:29 am EDT from 198.53.28.99

Amazon.com has finally upgraded the status of the "Gargoyles #1" that I ordered from them to "shipping soon" and "preparing for shipment". And high time, too. I'm glad to learn that.

But in the future, I'll see about ordering and purchasing mine at a comic book store rather than go through this absurdity again.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 7:56:38 am EDT from 4.244.208.181

Todd: Funny you should mention that. When I first started watching Gargoyles, one of the things that struck me about the saga as a whole was its distinct Bronte-esque feel -- so much that I once asked Greg W. if the Bronte sisters had been among his direct literary influences in the series, especially in the Elisa-and-Goliath component (they hadn't). I've always seen Goliath as a very clear (however unintended) parallel to Edward Fairfax Rochester, and it's made me love the series all the more.
Ellen
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 12:33:26 am EDT from 152.163.100.14

Err, didn't know you couldn't use html code... ah well, you guys get the idea. :D

Sorry for the double post! *goes back into lurkdom*
Idgiebay - [idgiebay@gmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 12:06:02 am EDT from 68.71.26.103

Hi! I've never posted before, but I was at the most recent Gathering. I just wanted to link you fine people to these SLG articles:

http://slg-news.livejournal.com/127843.html
http://slg-news.livejournal.com/128055.html

Here's an excerpt from the first one: <i>Comic books stores scrambled to keep Gargoyles #1 on shelves after its release on June 21, but it soon became clear that supply of the eagerly-anticipated comic book could not keep up with the demand of Gargoyles fans. So SLG Publishing is stepping in by re-printing Gargoyles #1, written by the Gargoyles animated series creator Greg Weisman, drawn by David Hedgecock, and colored by Will Terrell.</i>

And here's one from the second: <i>There are surprisingly few reviews of Gargoyles #1, considering its first printing flew off stores shelves faster than anything we've published before.</i>
Idgiebay - [idgiebay@gmail.com]
posted @ Tue, Jul 11, 2006 12:05:07 am EDT from 68.71.26.103

Another bad creativity demon:

A Gargoyles-casted adaptation of "Jane Eyre", with Elisa as Jane, Goliath as Rochester, and Demona as Rochester's mad wife locked up in the attic.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 7:06:24 pm EDT from 4.244.209.53

I just want to say that the new comic rocks and I can't wait for issue #2! I've been a fan of the show since 94 and I am so happy to see new stuff! Yay for Gargoyles!
Cormak
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 5:34:24 pm EDT from 205.188.117.68

So Phil.......your birthday was yesterday? Than HAPPY FRICKIN' BIRTHDAY MAN *Runs to the kitchen and makes a cake*
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
LEEEEEERRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS is my idol!
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 3:13:06 pm EDT from 69.231.254.169

I missed it yesterday, but I'd like to wish Alexander Xanatos a belated happy 10th birthday!
(The only reason I remember this every year is that he and I share the same birthday.)
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 8:58:43 am EDT from 69.129.121.95

GAR! Bad cookie! No milk for you!
Kythera of Anevern
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 1:26:35 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Ten!
Kythera of Anevern - [<-- New Art]
I do not suffer fools, gladly or otherwise.
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 1:25:22 am EDT from 69.244.247.43

Nine!
Chameleongirl
Chameleon may changer her spots, but she refuses to do plaid.
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 1:22:56 am EDT from 202.87.162.31

Eighth? o.o
The Sadistic Cow - [midnightfantasia [at] hotmail.com]
"Every day I smoke two hundred cigarettes and one hundred cigars and drink a bottle of whisky and three bottles of wine with dinner. And dinner is meat. RAW meat. The cook serves me an entire animal and I fight it bare-handed and tear off what I want and eat it and have the rest buried. In NEW JERSEY! For H.A.T.E.!" - Dirk Anger
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 1:10:52 am EDT from 69.157.14.20

Question: As many of you know, I typed up and posted scripts to my website about a decade ago. Now I've found a site that has just cut-and-pasted the script to the Heroes Awaken. I asked to have it taken and down and the owner of the site claims that a friend of his typed it up.
How would you approach this, since you really can't prove anything with regards to who stole what from who?

Oh, and seventh.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 1:02:36 am EDT from 4.230.255.110

Sixth
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1@sbcglobal.net]
LEEEEEERRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYY JEEEEEEEEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS is my idol!
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 12:54:08 am EDT from 69.231.192.216

Fifth!
Makhasu
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 12:21:27 am EDT from 66.74.220.146

Fourth!
Abby
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 12:11:47 am EDT from 24.118.226.247

haha okay thirrrrd
Trickster - [scruffyrebel@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 12:03:30 am EDT from 24.126.137.116

secooooond
Trickster - [scruffyrebel@yahoo.com]
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 12:03:16 am EDT from 24.126.137.116

Second
Leo
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 12:03:06 am EDT from 68.107.154.71

First!
D. Taina - [<-- Gargoyles Imagery Resource]
Stupidity rules the Internet.
posted @ Mon, Jul 10, 2006 12:01:52 am EDT from 172.131.200.73