Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Speaking of SLG's website, they have NOT yet put a release date for Gargoyles #6, but they have listed Bad Guys #1 for release in October. All seems to be on schedule. Let's hope it remains that way.
<<http://www.slgpublishing.coresense.com/info-exec/display/shipping>>

I checked diamondcomics.com at their shipping list for Thursday, Sept. 6th (Labor Day in the US must be pushing back the regular ship day of Wednesday back one day) and Gargoyles #6 is not listed.
<<http://www.diamondcomics.com/public/default.asp?t=2&m=1&c=3&s=7>>
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman
posted @ Sun, Sep 2, 2007 10:49:44 am EDT from 71.181.213.63

Excellent point, VA. That's probably going to at least be the reason I go to for why the Emir's spell is in English.

Since we're talking about magic, here's something that's been kicking around my head for a few days. We know from "City of Stone" that (mortal) magic must be both seen and heard to work on the intended castee. So what kind of implications does this have for the times when magic was more common in the world? Could people potentially avoid falling under a spell by shutting their eyes? Could the remainder of the Wyvern clan have avoided being put into a thousand year stone sleep just by plugging their ears? (Yeah, I know; no series if that happened. But still.) Just to be safe, did armies in the ages of magic perhaps employ a couple of deaf soldiers to go rake out the enemy's spellcasters? Were people who were blind or deaf held in special regard because of their immunity to magic? (Even better, can anyone thik of a historical or legendary figure who was supposed to be blind or deaf and may have benefited from immunity to magic?)
Demonskrye
posted @ Sat, Sep 1, 2007 8:52:53 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

Phil - <I don't go to Slave Labor's website very often, it's too frustrating.> I understand. If you're checking only the release schedule page, it ain't worth visiting more than once every couple of weeks on a Wednesday. If you're reading the slg blog, maybe visit every two-three days.

I like Greg's response that ancient languages are no more magical than modern ones. It opens up lots of possibilities while keeping things simple. Speaking of Ask Greg, how is the submit button going to work when we start getting comics coming out every month? Will the submit stay open all the time or just for the 2-3 weeks immediately following the release of a new comic?

Just a reminder of the upcoming schedule: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=505
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?
posted @ Sat, Sep 1, 2007 6:54:52 pm EDT from 71.29.241.36

In Greg's recent answer, he said that obviously the Emir had the Ancient Egyptian spell translated into English, and that it is a darn good question why.

I think I know why! Nobody, not even the most knowledgable Egyptology scholars, knows how Ancient Egyptian was pronounced. Nobody has ever found out the phonetic values of the vowels, and Egyptologists aren't entirely sure about all of the consonants, either. So the Emir knew that he'd never be able to cast the spell correctly in the original language, and he had to translate it into a language he could pronounce.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Sat, Sep 1, 2007 12:46:16 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

*pokes his head in, looks around but sees no one, and decides to leave for his audition.*
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Thirty-Six. Nine.' - Issue #5
posted @ Sat, Sep 1, 2007 12:31:26 pm EDT from 75.42.217.152

About Haunted Mansion. They said the license is ending, but they're looking into renewing it. I don't know what this means for the other titles, but I did ask.

I wouldn't worry about "Gargoyles" right now... they are starting a second title in October. It's now on schedule for October, as you can see here:

http://www.slgcomic.com/info-exec/display/shipping
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 11:28:32 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Vaevictis Asmadi> Where did I find it? I just got lucky, I guess. I don't go to Slave Labor's website very often, it's too frustrating. But today I went, clicked on their Disney comics page, and there it was.
I also happened to check their blog for the first time and the very last entry (dated 8/21/07) talks about the Haunted Mansion collection in hardcover (published by Slave Labor) vs. the paperback (published by Disney's Hyperion). It also mentioned in the final paragraph that the Haunted Mansion would run through issue #8 and "We're closing out the series with much affection." I'm not sure what to think of that except that hopefully they'll have more time and resources to devote to Gargoyles.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 11:17:26 pm EDT from 69.214.1.147

On the names of Brooklyn's family and stuff:

Yeah, I prefer the original names of Katana, Nashville, Tachi, and Fu-Dog. Not just because they were what Greg came up with, but because it just makes more sense for gargoyles to have simple nouns or place names for titles, since they aren't born with them. The Avalon clan are the exception, because they were named by humans. Leo and Una still fit the scheme in my mind, because their names are derived from "lion" and "unicorn" in some way.

Also, Brooklyn's children being twins struck me as a little Mary Sue-ish, though I don't know if it was before or after it was said that twins were extremely rare among gargoyles.

However, I admit to having a soft spot for Ariana just because I wanted to see beaked female characters in canon and she's probably the closest that we're getting :P But that's where it ends, as I didn't like some of the things about her character.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 7:14:08 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Demon@: RE: Picture. Usually when something is titled "CrazyDemona" it catches my attention much more quickly. I think that Demona is a bit crazier than me, or, I'm just a better escape artist. ;)

:: amused ::
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [<--- pre-register for Gathering 2008 in CHICAGO!]
"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" -- Albus Dumbledore
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 6:38:14 pm EDT from 198.176.189.201

Phil> $49.95 does a bit pricy but then again it is the hardcover of "The Haunted Mansion". From that description at the page you linked it's clear that the guys at SLG are putting a bit of money behind this project themselves (From the site: "This Hardcover collection of the first six issues ships in a sturdy four-color slipcase featuring artwork from the covers of the first six issues of our Haunted Mansion comic book series. The book itself is a gold stamped cloth-bound hardcover book designed to look like a book you would find in the mysterious old manse itself.") SLG have even put together a promo video shoot for the project.

As much as I would love gargoyles to get the same treatment, I doubt it will; for one thing the clan building vol 1 release is going to be a simple paperback.

At Amazon.com the pre-order price for the collection is $13.57. Clink my name for the pre-order page.
Brigadoon Traveller
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 6:34:34 pm EDT from 89.242.197.21

"I think in either case, it's clear that Brooklyn simply named it what it is -- like getting a pet cat and naming it Cat. Not creative of him, but it's the sort of thing a medieval, formerly nameless gargoyle self-named Brooklyn might come up with." -- VA

If that's the case, I can relate to Brooklyn . . . I can't remember how many times I see a dog (alive or toy) and call him or her "Pooch" or "The Woof-Woof". Seriously.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 6:27:18 pm EDT from 157.242.197.204

Phil, how did you find that out? I was just looking through the SLG website and the deleted the Production Schedule page. I'm totally serious, the link labeled "production schedule" now opens a totally different (and useless) page.

Where did you go to get the information?
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 5:10:50 pm EDT from 138.192.33.244

It's not due out until November, but Slave Labor Graphics is pre-selling the hardcover collection of Haunted Mansion #1-6 for $49.95, which seems like a lot of money to me, even with the 10% pre-purchase discount they're offering.
(Click my name to see it.)
If the Gargoyles collection is going to be similarly priced, I'm not likely to be picking one up. I could get three copies of each issue for about that price.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 4:35:08 pm EDT from 134.215.196.82

Oops. That was me. I'm on the school computer, while I wait for my apartment to get hooked up to the internet.
Vaevictis Asmadi
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 3:45:20 pm EDT from 138.192.30.168

You don't like the aesthetics of the name, or you don't like the use of the word as a proper name?

I think in either case, it's clear that Brooklyn simply named it what it is -- like getting a pet cat and naming it Cat. Not creative of him, but it's the sort of thing a medieval, formerly nameless gargoyle self-named Brooklyn might come up with.
Anonymous
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 3:44:38 pm EDT from 138.192.30.168

I don't like the name Fu-Dog. I understand what a "fu-dog" is and it's very neat and creative, I just don't like the name.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 3:32:11 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

*eyetwitch* That sounds horrible.... Greg's way will be much better. ^_^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 2:14:22 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

In TGS he had twins and his beast was named Nudnik.

His mate Sata was as interesting as watching linoleum curl. The twins, Graeme and Ariana, were annoying stereotypes (whom I avoided writing whenever I wrote or outlined a story), and Nudnik (the gargoyle beast puppy)... the seventh time he got into Owen's underwear drawer, it was no longer funny. It was no longer funny the second time.

Bring on Katana... I know she'll be an interesting character, because Greg excels at writing interesting female characters. Nashville will be slightly older than Graeme, and probably much less annoying, and Tachi will still be an egg. Fu-Dog will not be a puppy.

I like the set up much better.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 1:33:57 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

So Brooklyn will not have twins, as was first laid out? Or am I remembering things wrong? Didn't he also get a beast named Fu-Dog, or was that from TGS too?
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 12:33:45 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

Of course Greg's names make more sense, since he knows (or at least has ideas for) their entire life story. He knows the events surrounding their hatching, major events that affect their lives, and likely how they will die. For Brooklyn's kids, I'm guessing that Brooklyn got to name their son, and Katana named their daughter (since a Tachi is another type of Japanese sword, longer than a katana). I'm a little curious about who named Katana, though.

I read the first season of TGS and enjoyed it, but as it began to diverge more and more from the revelations at Ask Greg, I quit. The TGS storylines were mostly pretty good, but the tidbits that Greg revealed were obviously so much better.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 9:05:04 am EDT from 134.215.196.82

I think that Greg Weisman's names for Brooklyn's children have a big advantage over the TGS names; they lend themselves better to a "story behind the names". The TGS staff (if I remember correctly) picked the names "Graeme" and "Ariana" for Brooklyn's offspring at random, with the result that later on, when they got to the point where these two were hatched, they didn't know how to provide a rationale for the names. I doubt that Greg will be facing a similar problem with explaining Nashville and Tachi's names. (Tachi, we know, will be hatched after Brooklyn returns from his Timedancing. I suspect that Nashville was hatched in Tennessee, and that Brooklyn gave him his name following the Manhattan clan's habit of taking names from local geographical sites.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 7:44:07 am EDT from 4.244.208.253

Jurgan> "I don't think you're gonna get closer than Chicago. Think of where the cons have been: New York, L.A., Montreal, Texas, Florida, Virginia, Tennessee- I think that's it. Now you've got one just two states over. This is the best you'll get. Actually, depending on where in Ohio you are, New York might be cheaper- I don't know a lot about midwest geography, but I think you're right in the middle."

You're right. It's a bit... disenheartening... that I may never see a con in Ohio. But Hell, we (Vid The Kid and I) can afford it. If we can afford L.A. and Pigeon Forge, then Chicago's (and anywhere else a future con will be held) definitely doable.

I have too much fun at the cons for them to end anytime soon. Let's hope they don't.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Thirty-Six. Nine.' - Issue #5
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 3:01:51 am EDT from 75.42.217.152

SPEN> Actually, it wasn't. The staffers at the time thought their names were better. It caused a bit of a fight.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 12:14:38 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

Tortirion : "though most people call her Sata for some reason" That's because when TGS started up, Greg was still being secretive about the names of Brookln's mate & children. The staff had to come up with their own names for them, and when Greg finally did reveal them, it was too late to go back and change everything.
Spen
posted @ Fri, Aug 31, 2007 12:01:49 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

King Cobra: I don't think you're gonna get closer than Chicago. Think of where the cons have been: New York, L.A., Montreal, Texas, Florida, Virginia, Tennessee- I think that's it. Now you've got one just two states over. This is the best you'll get. Actually, depending on where in Ohio you are, New York might be cheaper- I don't know a lot about midwest geography, but I think you're right in the middle.

New guy (can't remember your name): Welcome! Have a cookie! Now I should say, waiting for the con to come close to you never works. It might come closer, mind you, but there's very little chance that it'll come to your home town by coincidence. If you want it to do so, the only real way is to come to someone else's con, volunteer to help work at it, and then make a bid to run your own in the future. If the staff think you can do the job, they may give yours official sanction. But if you can't find a way to make it to an existing con, they've got no reason to believe you possess the necessary dedication to run your own. Those are the facts, as far as I know them.
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 8:13:29 pm EDT from 69.242.207.70

Hello everyone,
I've seen ads for the latest batch of sci-fi genre shows ready to premier on network TV and I got of sense of 'everything old is new again' what with time travel, unlikely spies even vampires with souls solving crimes in LA. Anyone care to speculate what part of this show might suddenly appear on a midseason replacement. I know they won't bring the show in its entirety back, but I would win a Coke if some show is premised on mythical creatures being transported to modern times.
Taleweaver
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 5:54:26 pm EDT from 71.165.148.128

Which is why Greg has to cover his butt by have a policy stated up front that he never looks at ideas, no matter what.

As for the Gathering, the location each year is decided based on people in different cities who want to host it: they all submit to the Gathering people their "entry" and the best prospect is chosen. So if you want one in your city, the best bet is to try to host one yourself or, if that's too much work, to try to find other fans in the area who can get together to host it. I don't know any details of the choosing process and I'm sure that organizing and hosting a convention is a tremendous amount of work, but that's how it's done every year.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 5:36:00 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

Demonskrye> Either you give me credit and money or I'm gonna sue you!" Unfortunately, I have heard stories of this exact thing happening in other fandoms: a writer who is working on a story about a popular property will agree to take a look at a fan's story or hear his/her idea, note some coincidental similarities between the fanfiction and the writer's unpublished work, mention them lightly to the fan, and then be told by the "fan" that the writer has stolen the fan's ideas and needs to give credit or go to court.

Sad thing is, that in today's world, anyone could easily start a lawsuit whether valid or no. All you have to do for instance is go into a restaraun, poke yourself with their forks and sue them for having dangerous objects. Sorry if I veered off-topic, but it just had to be said.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 4:46:52 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

Tortirion> There has yet to be a con in Denver. I'm in the same boat in that I would like to see a con close to home (Ohio boy here), but maybe sometime in the future.

2008 is taken by Chicago, but 2009, from what I know, is a possibility.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Thirty-Six. Nine.' - Issue #5
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 4:33:39 pm EDT from 75.42.217.152

Totirion> Just so this is absolutely clear, let me lay down the whole Greg and fan work of any time deal for you. You can also check out Greg's own words on it on the first page of "Ask Greg".

Greg never looks at fan works of any kind: no fiction, no artwork, no nothing. Is it possible that he might accidently catch a bit of something - like a bit of fan artwork of a new character or idea someone's brought to a Gathering? Sure. But officially, he's never seen it and will not look at it or comment on it. I imagine he doesn't do much searching around the internet for directly "Gargoyles" related topics and if he ever does, he's probably careful to skip anything tthat could be fanfic and to avoid image searches altogether. I know Greg pops in here from time to time and we do talk about fan created work sometimes, but again, he's careful to skim for plot synopses or links to art and skip them.

The reason for this is largely a legal one. Let's say someone came up with the idea that Lex met his mate online. (Just as an example, because it's something I've toyed around with in my head.) And let's say that the same scenario later showed up in the comics. As is, Greg has a stated policy of not looking at fan work, so it's just coincidence. But if he didn't?

Now I do believe that the majority of Gargoyles fan authors and artists are just really nice, talented people who love the show and like expressing that in creative ways. So if they saw something in the comic (or whatever media the official "Gargoyles" story gets told in) that bore a striking resemblence to something they had done, they would either have one of two reactions. Either they'd think "Well, it is a pretty obvious idea. Lex is the techie of the clan and there aren't any other clans nearby, so it's a logical way for him to meet his mate. great minds really do think alike", or they'd go "Hey! Maybe Greg got that idea from me! Cool!" and think nothing more of it. But the concern is that there may be people out there who wouldn't consider it coincidental or flattering; people who would say "Hey! *I* came up with Lex meeting his mate online! Either you give me credit and money or I'm gonna sue you!" Unfortunately, I have heard stories of this exact thing happening in other fandoms: a writer who is working on a story about a popular property will agree to take a look at a fan's story or hear his/her idea, note some coincidental similarities between the fanfiction and the writer's unpublished work, mention them lightly to the fan, and then be told by the "fan" that the writer has stolen the fan's ideas and needs to give credit or go to court.

I would not be suprised if some fanfics and fanart bear similarities to what ends up being in the comic. Some will be no more than coincidence and some just come from fans and series creators looking at the same sources. If Greg Guler (or whoever ends up designing the characters) looks at fu-dog statues designing Fu-Dog and fans look at fu-dog statues when drawing their interpretations of Fu-Dog, naturally there are going to be some similarities. Keeping out of the whole realm of fanwork keeps Greg covered legally. As far as I know, the only fan contribution slated to appear in the series is the punchline to Fang's "How many gargoyles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" joke, which was the subject of a contest on Ask Greg.
Demonskrye
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 4:12:22 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

true, does anyone know if there is going to be a Gathering in denver anytime soon? it's hard to get to half the places the Gathering is so I'm desperately praying for it to come a little closer to home.
Tortirion - [Tortirioan at hotmail dot com]
Silly question, you say? Not really, missunderstood is more like it!
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 3:43:37 pm EDT from 63.227.2.245

He actively avoids all fanfic and fan-images. He has very good legal reasons to avoid any fan-generated ideas about plot and/or visuals.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 3:38:43 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

I wasn't just referring to Fics, there is a lot of really good art out there with Katana (though most people call her Sata for some reason) I mean does he just not look at any of the art out there, I mean there is so much it's hard to miss even if your not looking for it.
Tortirion - [Tortirioan at hotmail dot com]
Silly question, you say? Not really, missunderstood is more like it!
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 3:32:44 pm EDT from 63.227.2.245

Could be coincidences. It's also possible though that some of what you saw was spoilers that Greg has revealed... over 10 years after the show was canceled, when it looked like Gargoyles might never be revived, Greg revealed lots of plans he had for the plot -- plans he is now beginning to implement.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 3:26:47 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

I see, thanks guys I was just wondering, cause some times i read fan fics that come out, then later the events in the fan fic get mirrored in the show. I wanted to see if this might be the case.
Tortirion - [Tortirioan at hotmail dot com]
Silly question, you say? Not really, missunderstood is more like it!
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 2:56:10 pm EDT from 63.227.2.245

Welcome, Tortirion.

Greg doesn't read fanfic. Not only does he not like it, but more importantly, he doesn't read or accept from fans ideas of any kind. He can't legally afford to do it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 2:03:40 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

I don't read fanfiction at all either. I did start reading Harry Potter Book 7 and it's great; I can't put it down, but my eyes only let me read two - three chapters before they just tear up and burn.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 1:54:40 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Fanfiction> Yeah, he has good reasons not to.

Though I wonder what his stance is on parodies and the like. Probably the same as with other fanfics.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Thirty-Six. Nine.' - Issue #5
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 1:45:17 pm EDT from 75.42.217.152

Tortirion> No influence whatsoever. Greg doesn't read fanfiction at all.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 1:37:00 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

I have a question for Greg, but the 'Ask Greg' archive isn't accepting questions so I'll ask here, do you think all the fan fics out there to do with the Spin-off series, all the art, and all the questions, does anyone think that it might have had any effect on the story content for Greg?
Tortirion - [Tortirioan at hotmail dot com]
Silly question, you say? Not really, missunderstood is more like it!
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 1:35:04 pm EDT from 63.227.2.245

King Cobra: Click the name. Also check out rush.com
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"The sign of Eth is rising in the air. By-tor... Knights of Darkness... Centurion of Evil... the Devil's Prince." -Rush ("By-Tor and the Snow-Dog")
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 6:47:47 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

Todd, Matt> I had trouble getting in at one point last night. I'd simply thought of it as a system error somewhere.

Harvester> Man, I have a lot of catching up to do. Prince By-Tor and the Snow Dog?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 12:55:50 am EDT from 75.42.217.152

Could someone who has the knowledge of the Stone of Destiny in real time, post the time-line of its known existence and whereabouts? Then we can speculate where it can fit in the Gargoyle time-line.

I.E. approx. blah-blah B.C. Arthur pulls Excalibur from the Stone of Destiny.
approx. blah-blah A.D. The Stone of Destiny gets moved to blah-blah.
etc...
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman
posted @ Thu, Aug 30, 2007 12:15:50 am EDT from 71.173.1.43

Oh, Todd that's a great idea! Merlin taking the Stone from Ireland has felt out of place for me, but if that's true then it makes more sense in the context of Arthurian legend.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 9:35:25 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

I'd guessed a while ago that the rock in question might be the Stone of Destiny. However, given the title of #8, I'm not abandoning hope that Prince By-Tor and the Snow Dog exist in the Gargoyles universe. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"The sign of Eth is rising in the air. By-tor... Knights of Darkness... Centurion of Evil... the Devil's Prince." -Rush ("By-Tor and the Snow-Dog")
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 8:11:50 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

So... can Xanatos, Macbeth, Coldsteel, Thailog, Merlin, Cu Chullain and the gargoyles smell what "The Rock" is cooking? :P

303 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"If this were the last day of your life, my friend, tell me what do you think you would do then?" - Genesis, "Undertow"
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 7:54:57 pm EDT from 67.38.243.193

MATT - I had trouble getting in as well. It seems to happen at sporadic intervals; I don't know what causes it.

I'd also suspected that the Rock could be the Stone of Destiny, the "Holy Land" reference could be alluding to Jacob using the stone for his pillow, and that Merlin's involvement with it is connected to the Sword in the Stone (cf. "Pendragon").

Incidentally, Merlin's involvement with the Stone of Destiny could be (in the Gargoyles Universe) the origin of a rather well-known story about him. According to Geoffrey of Monmouth, Merlin persuaded King Arthur's uncle, Aurelius Ambrosius, to take some stones from the Irish, said to possess miraculous powers, and take them back to Britain, where Merlin raised them on Salisbury Plain as Stonehenge. Now, we know that in actual history, Stonehenge was built long before Merlin's time. But what if, in the Gargoyles Universe, Merlin borrowing the Stone of Destiny from the Irish to set up the Sword in the Stone could have been the truth behind that story? I might be wrong, but I still think that it's interesting to ponder.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 6:11:00 pm EDT from 4.244.213.254

Maybe her shoes are magic talismans. It could also be a red herring or a joke in the solicitation, though I doubt it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 4:55:08 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

Count me as another who thinks that "the rock" is the Stone of Destiny. The mention of the Holy Land makes me wonder whether the stone's origins as "Jacob's pillow" (the stone that the patriarch Jacob slept on in Genesis) will be mentioned and explored.
Brigadoon Traveller
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 4:51:15 pm EDT from 84.13.106.229

Anyone else have trouble getting in the Room this morning? Well, anyway, glad I can now.

I think the odds of The Rock being the Stone of Destiny is nearly 100% And I think Xanatos' first assignment from the Illuminati having to do with The Rock is about 85%. I think Todd's suggestion about how Merlin and others could fit into this non-linear story is about a 70% liklihood.

The big question is what the hell is up with Fox's shoes?! Is anyone else totally lost on this point!?

*Prepares to look back on these numbers in a year and laugh.*
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 4:40:17 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Tony> It was on a site taking pre-orders for comics. Unfortunately, I checked Previews today, and the incorrect, typoed version is the one out there. The one on the GargWiki is the correct version that Greg wrote. Someone messed up.

The Rock> I think it's the Stone of Destiny as well. As I recall, it was returned to Scotland in mid-November of 1996.

Of course, makes me wonder what's going on in the Holy Land.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 4:09:07 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Phil, Tony> The stone of destiny, huh?

And here I'd hoped we'd get to smell what The Rock. Was. Cookin'!!

:P
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Thirty-Six. Nine.' - Issue #5
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 2:21:05 pm EDT from 75.42.217.152

Demon@> That pic was pretty darn cool! I love it!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 12:24:31 pm EDT from 142.59.132.201

I also think the Stone of Destiny most likely, although we shouldn't underestimate Greg's capacity to pull a fast one and totally surprise us!

And I think you may be right, Todd, about jumping around between time-periods. That could certainly be done in a very non-linear way.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 12:02:55 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

Phil> You're on the right track. I think it's been mentioned weeks ago, and every keeps saying that it's most likely the Stone of Destiny. No one has suggested any other rock of importance otherwise.

Greg B> Before you confirmed the title and summary of Gargoyles #8, can you share your original source material?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 11:42:04 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

I've been thinking about the arc title "Clan Building". It doesn't seem to refer specifically to the Manhattan Clan (at least not yet). In the last three issues we've seen development of the Clones/Labyrinth Clan. I wonder if this next arc, which includes some activity in the British Isles, will show us more of the London Clan. I don't see how Greg could squeeze them in, seeing how packed these issues will already be, but it's a possibility.

By the way, I haven't seen anyone else mention this (although I may have missed it), but I think it's safe to assume that "The Rock" is the Stone of Destiny. It was moved from Westminster Abbey to Edinburgh on November 15, 1996. Cu Chullain's and Merlin's involvement only cements the idea for me, since it's also known as the Lia Fail and is the stone from "Sword and the Stone" fame. (Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but like I said, I hadn't seen anyone else mention it.)
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 10:24:09 am EDT from 134.215.196.82

Todd> Actually that does sound quite feasible and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense; it's unlikely that the gargoyles are going to see Merlin in the present (1996 onwards) anytime before Arthur does so most likely we are going to be seeing Merlin in flashback.

On a sidenote, one thing I've been wondering recently, does anyone know who does the character designs for the new characters in the comic? Do the artists which pencil each individual comic design any new characters in that specific issue? e.g. did Nir Paniry design Terry and ambassador Chung, whilst Hedgecock designed Shari? Under this line of thought Hedgecock will come up with Merlin's design? Or is Greg Guler still in charge of character design?

Gargwiki> Just a heads up to anyone who has rights to edit the gargwiki; the link to "Previous episode: Clan Biulding Chapter 6: Reunion" issue 6 on this page http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/The_Rock goes to Bash instead of issue 6.
Brigadoon Traveller
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 9:59:43 am EDT from 89.240.184.201

I wonder if Merlin and Cuchulain's involvement with the Rock is, not something that they're doing in the present, but something that they did during their original careers (Merlin in the 5th century, Cuchulain in ancient Ireland before he was reincarnated as Rory). I wouldn't be too surprised if the Rock hadn't had a very colorful history, even before the present day. (Come to think of it, Greg said that #7 would be non-linear - as in, perhaps, jumping about through the Rock's history from past to present and back again?)

Incidentally, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Rock is related to the assignment that the Illuminati gave to Xanatos.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Aug 29, 2007 7:55:30 am EDT from 4.244.211.37

If I had to guess, Goliath, Angela, Elisa, and Bronx will be on the cover of #6, possibly in the skiff. I'm also picturing the four maybe on the snow with Coldstone's shadow in the background.

Or since the issue is titled Reunion, maybe it'll be a picture of Sephiroth holding Jenova!
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 11:31:28 pm EDT from 71.173.15.243

Incidentally, it's all the clearer now why Greg didn't want #5's cover being revealed so early. It clearly gave away the surprise ending on #4.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 8:09:11 pm EDT from 4.245.19.97

Well, issue eight is certainly going to be a heck of a ride once we get there. But seeing as that's a ways off, I'm wondering when we might get a look at the cover for issue #6. My impression is that the covers are often finished long before the comic itself so they can be shown in Previews to advertize the book. Not sure if that's the case here, but sinceit's just a few weeks until release, shouldn't we be getting a nice cover image to really get us salivating or the new issue pretty soon? I don't know if anything can top issue #5's cover for sheer gut impact (Sorry, Goliath. Bad pun there.) But Coldstone in the Himalayas with yetis is bound to have potential.
Demonskrye
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 8:04:58 pm EDT from 209.6.249.41

BISHANSKY - Thanks for discovering the actual title.

I just hope that the issue will have room enough to include *all* of those rival factions. But Greg's probably figured out how he can pull it off.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 7:45:54 pm EDT from 4.245.19.97

Hmm...interesting solicit. I'm confident the whole Merlin thing will be well taken care of.
Incisivis - [incisivis at hotmail dot com]
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream" -- Shirley Jackson
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 7:39:32 pm EDT from 216.36.154.204

Now hear we are talking about Fox's shoes again. That is probably the biggest mystery around right now. At least we can make half-way decent guesses about everything else.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 7:08:41 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

I e-mailed Greg for clarification, and he sent me this. There was a little error in there.

From the Holy Land to the British Isles… everyone wants a piece of the Rock. Xanatos, Macbeth, Coldsteel, Thailog, Merlin, Cu Chullain and the gargoyles strive to find it, possess it and learn it's darkest secrets. All this and Fox's new shoes in "CLAN-BUILDING, Chapter 8: Rock & Roll."
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 7:02:35 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Sooo out off topic: Check these out! http://bp2.blogger.com/_gJJFuB2BcJo/RtEF9x28bUI/AAAAAAAAASA/87at7W88wNA/s1600-h/CrazyDemona.jpg

:P
Demon@
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 6:53:57 pm EDT from 190.2.34.69

*reads the solicit, and his mouth falls to the floor*

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH?!

Todd: There's a lot in the comics that I haven't been expecting to see. So far, I've been very impressed with Greg's ballsy approach to this. Maybe it's because we've had nothing but fanfic to sustain us for a while, and no offense to anyone, but I have read a lot of "safe" fanfic. From what we've seen in Issues 3, 4 and 5, Greg is just diving right in, not pulling any punches. I'm a bit shocked, but at the same time, impressed.

Cool. I have two reasons to look forward to January once again.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"How were we gonna take over the world with a white Michael Jackson, anyway?"
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 6:51:05 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Now that's a memorable solicit. (Though I'm puzzled about it being titled "Chapter 7" - was that an error in the text?) It makes me all the more eager to see that issue when it comes out. I certainly hadn't expected Cuchulain to show up again that early.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 6:20:11 pm EDT from 4.245.16.216

Finally back on my computer. Ahhhh. Thank you, Jason.

Well, that is quite an intriguing teaser. I'm thrilled to see CuChullin again. And why do I get the feeling we just found out what Xanatos' first assignment from the Illuminati is?

Seems like a pretty packed episode. I hope with all the different threads it'll be pulling together that new fans arn't lost.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age, between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" -Macbeth, 'City of Stone'
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 5:24:28 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

"So, you think that when we see Merlin in #8, he'll still be in the Crystal Cave, bust still somehow involved with this Rock? If so, I wonder how that will work. We really know so little about the Cave, or what he's been doing in there. I always imagined he's been asleep and cut off from the outside world. "

Perhaps there will be forces going after "the Rock" in Merlin's name. That would leave a few possibilities open: Merlin asleep in the cave with people who think they're doing Merlin's will (which may or may not be true) r Merlin actively directing others somehow from within the cave.
Spoonvonstup - [<--- Gargoyles Music Video Database]
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 5:18:19 pm EDT from 98.197.11.65

(Reading the #8 Solicitation)

Wow . . . and I was just itching to see September's #7 and October's Bad Guys #1! What an amazing next few months this is going to be!!
Phoenician - [theoneandonlyphoenician at yahoo dot com]
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 4:08:19 pm EDT from 157.242.194.238

Taking time out from the discussion to say, that with the newest answer on Ask Greg, this upcoming question can also be handled by an Ask Greg helper:

<<brooklyn the red one writes...
hi greg iam wondering why dose't slg have gargoyles#5 yet what is going on>>

Greg B.: <<I doubt Greg changed his mind about when we'd be seeing Merlin. All we knew was that he was in his Crystal Cave.>>
So, you think that when we see Merlin in #8, he'll still be in the Crystal Cave, bust still somehow involved with this Rock? If so, I wonder how that will work. We really know so little about the Cave, or what he's been doing in there. I always imagined he's been asleep and cut off from the outside world. I'm really looking farward to #8, if Merlin really is featured in it.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 3:50:05 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

Out of sheer curiosity, what is the source of the solicit, Greg B?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 2:07:14 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

#8> That raised my eyebrows. This looks pretty cool, and has so many people involved. I can honestly say I was not expecting this, but I have a pretty good idea what the Stone may be. Still, Greg could through a curve ball on me.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 2:05:17 pm EDT from 131.204.219.60

#8 solicitation> Wow! Its still got no name but this issue sounds like one awesome story! I wonder who we'll see in the Holy Land? And Merlin?! January (aswell as September and November) just can't come any sooner!

Btw Greg where do you find out these solicitations from?
brigadoon traveller
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 1:25:12 pm EDT from 84.13.67.243

So... do we know yet what #8 is named?
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 12:19:25 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

#8> GAAAH! I can't stand it! I'm already going nuts with anticipation for this one, and it won't be coming out until January (if everything stays on schedule).

I didn't chime in a few weeks ago when everyone was talking about their first memories of Gargoyles, but better late than never. I watched every show on the Disney Afternoon, so naturally I was going to watch Gargoyles. The shows were syndicated by our local Fox affiliate and due to scheduling conflicts the Disney Afternoon was broadcast in the morning. I would generally tape the episodes while I was at work, watch them later, and tape over them. After a few episodes of Gargoyles, I bought a new tape to keep them on permanently. I would generally start the VCR; watch the intro, "previously" clips, and the title; and then turn off the TV and go to work, with a sort of preview to think about until I got home that night. The eight hours of anticipation between the "preview" and the episode were exquisite torture. And now, with the comic solicitations, we've got five months of torture to endure.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 11:49:01 am EDT from 134.215.196.82

That's #8, and I doubt Greg changed his mind about when we'd be seeing Merlin. All we knew was that he was in his Crystal Cave.

If "Bad Guys" sells, we will see "Pendragon".

Heh, all these years later, we still should never assume. Greg keeps the surprises coming.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 11:26:36 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

Sorry for the double post.

Greg B, is that #7 or #8?
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 11:21:11 am EDT from 209.162.56.40

Cucullain and MERLIN?!
How can we have Merlin show up already when Pendragon won't even be out yet? Aww, is Greg assuming that Bad Guys won't sell enough to make Pendragon work? Or he changed his mind and King Arthur isn't the one to wake Merlin up? Or maybe it's a time-traveling Merlin? That would be pretty weird.

I just realized that I said the 9/11 attacks were before dawn, of course I meant to say ~after~ dawn.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 11:17:59 am EDT from 209.162.56.40

GARGOYLES #8
by Greg Weisman & David Hedgecock
'Clan-Building,' Chapter 7. From the Holy Land to the British Isles everyone wants a piece of the Rock. Xanatos, Macbeth, Coldsteel, Thailog, Merlin, Cu Chullain and the gargoyles strive to find it, possess it and learn its darkest secrets.

........ well. First time one of these solicits left me speechless.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 10:18:35 am EDT from 67.87.175.245

scrabblemouse> I used to get the comics from the US (amazon, SLG), but the delay in delivery and the cost of shipping prompted me to try to find a local retailer; I set up a subscription from redhotcomics.demon.co.uk which are located in Glasgow. Email them at orders@redhotcomics.demon.co.uk to see if you can also set up a subscription.
brigadoon traveller
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 7:45:47 am EDT from 89.240.144.137

Casting fictional characters as victims of a real-life event like 9/11 is always bound to stir up mixed reactions. I think the reason Christine's story worked where others I've seen have not is because it added a fictional fifth plane and a fictional fifth location.

At some point down the road, I think we have to be prepared to see 9/11 eventually become just another historical event that's considered fair game as a backdrop for fiction, just like the sinking of the Titanic or the D-Day invasion.

304 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 7:44:28 am EDT from 24.106.128.24

Christine> I agree.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
'Thirty-Six. Nine.' - Issue #5
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 5:46:04 am EDT from 75.42.217.152

Where does everyone order their comics from? I managed to find #4 in Forbidden Planet but do I need to order the others from the U.S or is there a UK distributor?
scrabblemouse - [wandering_about at hotmail dot com]
~Insert Witty Remark~
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 5:32:30 am EDT from 86.128.213.132

"Dust and Ashes" is in the Phoenix Gate anthology. It was not an easy story to write, but I'm very glad that I did, and I think it's one of my best.
Christine - [christine at sabledrake dot com]
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 4:06:35 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

Todd> Yeah, she did.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Tue, Aug 28, 2007 12:44:01 am EDT from 75.42.217.152

I don't know how many CDs they have, but if I'm thinking of the one that I have, and based on your old school comment, I assuming that you're talking about their take on NES classics. If you haven't heard it yet, you're going to love it. Their rendition of Contra is awesome, but I think my favorite is Punch-Out. Unfortunately, their Zelda piece has too much bass in it and is not enjoyable to listen to.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 10:12:12 pm EDT from 71.181.208.116

Tony: Sorry. I'm viciously old-school. Still waiting for my CD from the Minibosses to come in.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?" -Gaff ("Blade Runner")
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 8:49:51 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

For all the Metroid fans out there, you peobably already know that "Metroid Prime 3: Corruption" comes out tomorrow. Can't wait for tomorrow? Neither could I, but now I don't have to.

I went to Wal-mart after work and they had the game out already. So if you're impatient like me, call your Wal-mart, ask if they have it, and then hopefully go get it.
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
"What you're passionate about, from a cartoon standpoint, has to do with what age you were when you very first saw it." ~Greg Weisman
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 8:20:35 pm EDT from 71.181.208.116

Due to money problems, I finally ordered my #5 comic August 11th. STILL haven't received it and its pissing me off. It said it was paid in full and shipped. I emailed the company today and they said they will send me a replacement copy at no extra charge. But dammit, I wanna see what everyone was raving about :( Everyday I was checking the mailbox with anticipation and finally today, I gave up and sent the email. Hopefully this one will get here sooner.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 7:13:10 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

Wizard's first rule. People are stupid.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:45:11 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Christine Morgan wrote a story about the Eyrie Building being blown up on September 11? Weird.

I've come across one especially tasteless (in my opinion) fanfic take on 9/11, though it was a Harry Potter fanfic rather than a Gargoyles one. In the story, there was an American wizard school in New York under the World Trade Center; a Dark wizard who was targeting the school destroyed the Twin Towers in an attack, and the American Ministry of Magic invented the terrorist account as a cover story. Now that's a tacky treatment.

I suspect that the mere fact that the news report blaming the clock tower's destruction on the gargoyles was on television would ensure that a lot of people would believe it: the old case of "We can't argue with the TV; it's spent more time raising us than our parents have."
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:43:51 pm EDT from 4.244.209.29

Greg B: My favorite is still the PIT entry.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?" -Gaff ("Blade Runner")
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:32:14 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

Another thought I had on the matter was Goliath's feelings towards the whole day. I think it would hit him very hard, and that is because of the Wyvern Massacre. I think Sept. 11th would rip open those old wounds for him that were still just healing. I mean look at it from his perspective: He awakes to find that his "castle" has been attacked and many were killed and he was unable to stop it. I mean, how could he look at the piles of burning rubble at Ground Zero and not remember coming home to Castle Wyvern the night of the Massacre?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
The only way to make your computer go faster is to throw it out the window...
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:29:08 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

Matt, I started writing a fan fiction about 9/11 with the Gargoyles. I never got very far. It went that Elisa was part of the rescue efforts and pretty much forgot about the gargoyles waking up that night, her mind was so focused on the rescue, understandably. So they awake and find the city in turmoil, the towers are rubble, and for a short period of time, Elisa is no where to be found. At first they suspect the Hunters (considering what they did to the police station), but when they do find Elisa, she tells them everything and for whatever reason at the time, Hudson seemed to take it very hard, I forget why I did it that way, but he was cursing their stone sleep. That they should have been there. The trio agrees, and Angela and Goliath remind them that no matter if they were awake or asleep, there would have been little they could have done to stop it. Perhaps they could have saved people from the 98th floors and above, but they certainly couldn't have stopped a commercial airline plane from hitting the towers. I had notes to involve Vinnie, Brendan, Margot, the Central Park jogger, etc in the story, but never finished it. It was difficult to write for many reasons.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:07:31 pm EDT from 68.202.76.113

During the attacks on September 11th, Maza was home sleeping: http://www.wikiality.com/Elisa_Maza

;)
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:07:00 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

I'm back.

I had a serious computer issue and my boyfriend had his hands full working on it for the past week or so. Hopefully, he'll have it up and running later today. I'm on his computer now and just spent the last hour catching up.

Theres a lot I would've loved to comment on (Jurassic Park, Goliath's suicide, etc), but I'll refrain for now.

As for Sept 11th, naturally, the Clan would be asleep during the actual attack. I think the story should follow Elisa. Something like she says g'night to the Clan, heads back to the Station, then home and right before she goes to bed sees the Towers out her window. Maybe the story follows her day and later the Manhattan Clan awakes stunned. I'd like to see the Clan help with the rescue/recovery efforts that first night. Just my thoughts.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
The only way to make your computer go faster is to throw it out the window...
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:02:43 pm EDT from 24.207.163.239

I might be coming into the subject late, but no one seems to have mentioned this yet, so I figure I'll kill the argument before it has a chance to be born (what can I say? Overkill is fun, sometimes). If gargoyles are still seen as animals in 2001, I don't think even John Castaway would try to put any sort of gargoyle slant on the attacks. From what little we have seen of him in the canon material so far, he seems too competent to even consider that.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?" -Gaff ("Blade Runner")
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 5:44:40 pm EDT from 71.62.204.109

I'd say it's similar (albeit more extreme) to rumors/gossips. Society puts more emphasis in the glamour than truth and honesty.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 4:28:10 pm EDT from 71.115.192.199

Greg was once asked if the media revealed that Jason and Robyn admitted to the attacks and to lying about the gargoyles' guilt. He said yes, but that it didn't mean anybody listened.

Which implies that people do believe Jon's fake news report. In spite of the obvious huge blimp. I know that scared, ignorant people can be very stupid, but nobody would ever be dumb enough to blame wolves or lions or bears for a bombing. Or if living dinosaurs were discovered in New York, nobody would blame dinosaurs for a bombing, 'cause everybody "knows" they had brains the size of a walnut.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 4:13:34 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

Vaevictis> Well, Jason and Robyn were taken into custody... so the real culprits are known. But, I think the revelation of the gargoyles' existence overshadowed that news. The media does stuff like this all the time.

I don't think people are blaming them for the bombing so much as they are reacting to their very existence.

Patrick> Thank you! Exactly what I was saying.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 4:08:47 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

I agree that blaming the gargoyles for a terrorist attack would be stupid, and if anyone in the media did suggest it, the suggestion would die down as soon as they comprehended the real cause.

But honestly, some New Yorkers think that the gargoyles bombed the police station and the cathedral, in a huge blimp. How does that make any sense with the assumption that they are wild animals and can't talk? Frankly, the whole idea that New Yorkers think the gargoyles bombed the clock tower strikes me as nonsensical. Only the minority who think they're demons or aliens would believe that lie.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 4:04:50 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

On a video that came out after the attacks, Bin Laden himself said the WTC was targeted because it represented the economic center of the U.S. The Sears Tower in Chicago was not a target. The Transamerica Pyramid in San Francisco was not a target. There's little reason to suspect that the Eyrie Building would have been a target if it really existed, either.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
G: "I see no walls to guard this city. How do you protect it from invaders?" / E: "Well our biggest worries aren't from outside. They're from inside." / G: "That I am all too familiar with."
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 3:57:49 pm EDT from 67.38.243.193

Ethan> Christine wrote a great story... but I do not buy the Eyrie Building being targeted and hit. It wasn't the symbol that the Twin Towers were. The Towers weren't hit because they were the tallest buildings in the city... it was a strike at the entire financial district, and an attempt to really destroy our economy. The entire world does business down there.

The Eyrie Building is a privately owned building that doesn't really symbolize anything except a billionare industrialist's eccentricities as far as the general public is aware. Hitting it would not hurt the United States' infrastructure.

The Twin Towers, the Pentagon... and, where ever that fourth plane was headed... I'd bet on either the White House or the Capitol... those are what terrorists who declared war on the Great Satan would target.

It was a good story, don't get me wrong, but... and this is my fault, I love Christine and her writing, but it never sat well with me. I can't quite explain it.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 3:32:11 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Personally I like the story Christine Morgan wrote for the Pheonix Gate Anthology. There were a couple choice lines that summed up how I felt about the whole thing.
Ethan Gilchrist - [ethan at randominformation dot com]
"I wouldn't wanna live in a world without grudges." --Jack Terricloth of the World Inferno Friendship Society
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 3:26:21 pm EDT from 130.218.71.193

Not that the gargoyles will move from scary monsters to accepted allies that quickly, as everything unknown/different is subject to fear and uncertainty by human beings, but if the gargs declare openly against the terrorists, people will probably agree to unite against a common enemy.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 2:52:15 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

I hate to sound like a discussion killer, but... well, considering how 9/11 went down, it would be very, very poor writing for the media (even the fictionalized media) to be blaming gargoyles for what happened one way or the other. As I recall, we knew it was Osama bin Laden before noon that day. I knew it was Osama before the Pentagon got hit.

Are gargoyles even seen as sentient beings by 2001? Only Greg knows right now. But, if they're still seen as beasts and monsters... then only the lowest of supermarket tabloids would even suggest the idea.

We knew it was Osama, we knew it was al Qaeda, and we knew they were being harbored by the Taliban in Afghanistan before the way was out.

Airplanes were flown into buildings... there is no logical way to connect that with a gargoyle. There is no illogical way either.

Maybe a few random crazies on the streets... the same type making up Nostradamus predictions, or the idiotic conspiracy theorists who think the government was behind it. But these people are largely laughed at anyway.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 2:45:04 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

My opinion is that 9/11 will eclipse the perceived gargoyle threat for most of the population. After that event, everyone will be worrying when/if the terrorists strike next, and focus on that as the paramount threat to the country at large. There are some who will link the two, and some in NYC who will fear the gargoyles more (perhaps in general, perhaps because they doubt the terrorists will return to the city), but I think that will be a minority.

Now, this is based on things as they are now in the storyline. Depending on how the gargoyles are revealed to society, how they interact with humans in the interim, and the fruit of Thailog's actions in #5, this may change considerably.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [kth dot dragon at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 2:43:31 pm EDT from 199.38.51.134

Well, according to the search engine, the number 4 does not occur anywhere at all in the archives. Neither do 3, 2, or 7. So I think the search function just doesn't like numbers.

Regarding the public blaming gargoyles for the terrorist attacks, I wonder if the media will at first suggest this. But pretty soon I think that people would be told the true story. When horrible disasters (man-made or otherwise) happen, the news becomes surprisingly decent and not-sound-bite-ish. At least, I noticed that when the bridge collapsed in Minneapolis.

My question is this: how will the sudden awareness and fear of terrorists affect Americans' (and the rest of the world's) fear of gargoyles? I'm sure individual opinions will be all over, but I'm wondering if the majority will sort of forget about the gargoyles once they have terrorists to worry about, or if the fear of all things unusual and different make the public as a whole even less tolerant toward gargoyles, mutates, etc. Or if lots of Americans will assume that gargoyles must be in league with the terrorists.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 2:22:55 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

It's lucky that the comic is still in 1996. Greg has several more years before he has to cover 9/11, and every year makes the event just a little more distant for readers. At least, for readers who didn't witness it firsthand or lose somebody.

Tony >> I'm not sure why you can't find it in the archives. I know that it's in there, it's weird the search doesn't work.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 1:50:00 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

I don't envy Greg. But I do know he plans to cover it. It's a touchy, touchy subject, but I imagine he'll handle it well. But, we're far, far away from that.

The CR has been a little slow lately, but nothing on the level of the TGS CR.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The 12th Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Never hate your enemies. It clouds your judgement." - Michael Corleone.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 1:40:42 pm EDT from 67.87.175.245

Vaevictis Asmadi> I searched the archives for September 11th, Sept 11, Sept+11, 9/11, and other combinations and didn't find anything. That's the only reason I bring it up here.

I know the Gargoyles won't be involved because it happened after dawn, but it will be interesting to see how the aftermath is taken care of, and if the characters in the comics will point any fingers at the Gargoyles?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 1:31:13 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

I think that Vinnie was referring to the TGS Comment Room, which is indeed dormant most of the time.

Things probably got off to a slow start only because not everybody may be able to post very early on Monday for various reasons. I do like to see the Top Ten concluded quickly, since mere numbers don't make for stimulating conversation.

As for September 11, all that I can say is that I'm glad that it's going to be Greg's responsibility to address that issue, and not mine. I'd be terrified at the prospect of handling it - and the worst part of it is that, since the gargoyles live in New York, it's not going to be easy to overlook it. Fortunately for Greg, since the comic book is still taking place in 1996, those events are a good way off at the moment. He still has plenty of time to find a solution.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 12:56:40 pm EDT from 4.245.16.187

Greg has been asked several times about 9/11, he's answered it in the archives. Basically, he isn't sure how to handle it but he's not going to ignore it or pretend it didn't happen. It occurred before dawn, so the gargoyles won't be involved. He does not plan on having any characters die, feeling it would cheapen/disrespect the deaths of real people.
Vaevictis Asmadi
"For every complex problem, there is a solution which is simple, easy, and wrong."
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 12:55:40 pm EDT from 209.162.56.40

Re: 9/11 - I think I heard that it will likely be addressed. I'd rather like to see it handled in the Garg universe.
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 12:15:16 pm EDT from 74.115.187.62

Or will 9/11 even occur in the Gargoyles universe? Hard to say... hopefully, we'll get far enough to find out.
Spoonvonstup - [<--- Gargoyles Music Video Database]
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 11:41:01 am EDT from 98.197.11.65

I believe Vinnie is referring to the pace at which people are commenting is appearing to trend with last week's comment room's pace thus far.

* * *

Any idea how Greg Weisman plans on handling the events of 9/11/2001 when he reaches it in the comics? Will the event be skipped over to be handled later, or will the Gargoyles be on another road trip and be out of town at the time?
TiniTinyTony - [tinitinytony at hotmail dot com]
Content makes poor men rich; discontentment makes rich men poor.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 11:28:26 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Vinnie> Other CR?

What happened to it?
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Thirty-Six. Nine.
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 8:51:24 am EDT from 75.42.217.152

Number ten!

305 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"Two hundred miles in this day and age? I don't even know where I live now!" - Eddie Izzard
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:58:02 am EDT from 67.38.243.193

I'll do nine again.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 6:12:33 am EDT from 71.62.204.109

8, 9, 10! And away we go on with the show. At the pace this CR is going it will soon go the way of the other CR.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
... a higher eminence, in whatever he takes up, than can women-whether requiring deep thought, reason, or imagination, or merely the use of the senses and hands. If two lists were made of the most eminent men and women in poetry, painting, sculpture, music (inclusive of both composition and performance), history, science, and philosophy, with half-a-dozen names under each subject, the two lists would not bear comparison. We may also infer, from the law of the deviation from averages, so well illustrated by Mr. Galton, in his work on "Hereditary Genius" that ... the average of mental power in man must be above that of women (Darwin, Charles. 1896. The Descent of Man and Selection in Relation to Sex. New York: D. Appleton and Company page 564).
posted @ Mon, Aug 27, 2007 5:05:06 am EDT from 69.54.209.54

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Comments for the week ending September 3, 2007

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