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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending August 11, 2008

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Jade, you're remembering some things that never happened.

In 2006, we'd originally scheduled the Blue Mug in the con suite. We never had any meeting rooms downstairs reserved on Saturday night. But way more people showed up than really should have been in the room, and the people staying in the room next door were giving us all the evil eye before we even got started. When they complained, the hotel told us to either break it up or the con staff would lose the room, so we had to break it up. I wasn't there for what transpired downstairs - I was still upstairs, opening windows, because it was over 90 degrees in the room from so many people having been in there - but from what I heard, someone from security got all wound up about so many people being in the hallway outside the meeting rooms, and that's when the Blue Mug got called off altogether. That was Saturday evening.

On Sunday evening, after the Masquerade, and informal Blue Mug reconvened in one corner of the ballroom, and we had that room until midnight just as we always do. The drama on Sunday came from the a member of wedding party in the other ballroom, who came into our room and couldn't keep his drunken comments to himself. As I recall, we asked them to leave and Blue Mug, Take 2 continued until midnight without further interruption.

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"When 900 years you reach, look as good you will not." - Yoda

Todd> It is as Patrick says. The Blue Mug went down at first and sort of in the end of the Masquerade, within that room, till they told us we hadn't reserved it for any longer and booted us there, then into the hall we went, where we were threatened to be removed from the hotel for congregating in the hallway, and then moved to the con suite where someone complained to hotel management and gave us another warning. It culminated in the end of the Blue Mug and the guests and some fans heading to the bar for drinks and quiet chit chat in the lobby area... At least, that's what I recall. Man, it was neat seeing Crispin Freeman talking to Keith David:)
Jade Griffin
"Foooooooood!!!"

goliath> Well, I'm not sure we know for certain where Katharine's bedroom was located in Castle Wyvern. I know several fans have drawn out blueprints for the Castle, but I doubt that there is a canon reference to the location to this particular room.
The rookery is (was) located beneath the Castle in a natural cave. There was one entrance leading to the Castle's courtyard and there may have been other entrances (explaining what Goliath and Co. were looking at when they visited the site during the World Tour.
For more info visit the GargWiki (link to the left) and look at Castle Wyvern and Rookery.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

where was princess katherines room at within castle wyverns layout?
As well as the rookery?

goliath - [snake85027 at yahoo dot com]

Just discovered Teletoon Canada will be picking up The Spectacular Spiderman - which will air Sunday mornings at 10:30am. Sadly, I think we'll be running a full season behind the US as a result of the late pickup, but at least we'll have a better outlet for it than we currently have.
Wingless

I just got a postcard in the mail, telling me about a local Comic-Con on the 16th. I am considering attending, and passing out flyers and such like we were talking about last week. Could someone send me flyiers or something? Or a link to a page I could print off and hand out?
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Way more people showed up for the Blue Mug in '06 than anyone had expected, so the con suite ended up having been a poor choice of venue. Lesson learned, and in '07 and '08 the con put the Blue Mug in one of the regular meeting rooms. And at this most recent con, the con suite as a hotel room concept was done away with altogether, and a small meeting room served as the "con suite." Chances are we'll continue doing it that way, because it just makes life so much easier.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"When 900 years you reach, look as good you will not." - Yoda

Todd> I know for a fact we got kicked out of the Blue Mug due to noise. That was during the '06 convention, and it was due to the con suite being a regular hotel room without extra sound absorbency or whatever. We were asked to leave the room due to excessive noise. Things went downhill from there. Not sure about being next to a family's room. Needless to say, the next year the Blue Mug was held in one of the convention rooms, good for noise and the amount of people.
Asatira

JADE GRIFFIN - Did both of those things actually happen at a Gathering?

I'd agree that the people most likely to buy the comic are the ones who have at least a slight familiarity with "Gargoyles". I know that the reason why I've been buying it is because I remember the series; if I hadn't watched it back in 1994-96, I'd probably have ignored it.

Todd Jensen

bluewyvern, I think there could easily be new readers. Kids and teenagers who weren't born yet or old enough to remember the show might get interested. But as far as people who watched TV back when it was on, yeah if they weren't a fan then they probably won't be now. But I could be wrong about that too, I mean I used to hate DC and now I think DC makes marvel look like crap.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

Jade> It's both. When I started writing NAOOP I was sure that I wanted to blend together two mythologies that don't normally meet. So I did research on Pandora's Box, and discovered--As Todd mentioned--That it wasn't a box at all. Who knew?

So, I made sure to mention in my fic, that Pandora's box, was an amphora--a Greek Vase--and the story sort of blossomed from there.

Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Pandora's Jar, eh? Is that a fact or a fanfic idea? I'm curious because that would open up a whole... er... box... of possibilies for upcoming Garg Anthologies for the Gathering:) It makes sense, as they likely didn't use boxes back then. Jars were the thing:)
Jade Griffin
"Foooooooood!!!"

Spen> lol, I know your sig. That rocks:)

Greg B> can we find a hotel that won't kick us out for having a blue mug and maybe won't schedule the con suite next to a family w/ sleeping children? Lol, that was an... interesting... year:) A very MEMORABLE year! I usually don't offer advice for the Gatherings cuz I like them pretty much as is, but that's what I'd suggest, in case the staff doesn't recall what happened last time.

Jade Griffin
"Foooooooood!!!"

Figured I could help spread the word a bit. I changed my avatar everywhere I post to the Gargoyles logo. Next is to make a sig pic to go with that avatar.
Nickerous

Here's a question. There's been a lot of discussion about how accessible the comic is to new readers. But are there any new readers? I honestly wouldn't expect the comic to be picked up by anyone who wasn't at least fairly familiar with the show. I suppose it would be nice in theory if someone completely new to Gargoyles did pick up the comic and got hooked, but has that ever happened? Would you ever decide to start reading a new comic book for a fifteen-year-old cartoon you'd never seen?

"Casual" fans and occasional viewers (which still comprise a pretty sizable potential audience, that's the good news) should definitely be accommodated, with gentle reminders of various events to bring them up to speed, but complete newbies? I wouldn't think so.

bluewyvern
"Attend the petty jealousies and angers that prey upon your heart."

Thanks for all the birthday wishes, everyone!

Happy belated birthday to Purplegoldfish! I thought it was sometime around mine.

Happy birthday to Mochi as well!

And while we're at it, a belated happy birthday to Robby Bevard!

You know, I'm pretty sure that this is the first time I've ever been glad to hear about a delay in the schedule. You may not believe this, Todd, but I was hoping that this issue would be delayed so that it could come out on your birthday. Sure, it's not Gargoyles #9, like you had hoped, but it's an issue nevertheless. So happy birthday, Todd! Even if you have to get the gift from yourself.

Shara : I got the e-mail (and thanks again!) I've got more to say about the varius conventions (among other thing) but I have to leave for work in about five minutes.

Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."

Here I go by Chip, which is my real name. At FF.net and Deviant Art I'm Gryphinwyrm7. It's a name I came up with around when I started writing fanfic. It has to do with Griff (from Gargoyles) and Dragons. I might tell you the long version of that story some day.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

CHIP - So you're the author? I was certainly surprised by that, since you submitted it to FanFiction.Net under a different name than you use here. (Then again, I use a different name at FanFiction.Net than I do here; there I go by "merlyn2". I submitted a Chronicles of Narnia fanfic there a couple of months ago, entitled "The Forgotten Pevensie" - my take on Susan's turning her back on Narnia. You can find it at http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4273001/1/ ).

ED - At least there's one mystery in the comic book that you don't have to be a "Gargoyles" fan to get and ponder about: Shari. Anyone who hasn't seen the cartoon but has a good supply of general knowledge can speculate over whether she's at least based on Scheherazade, just as much as a hard-core fan.

Todd Jensen

Lazarus has used magic to keep himself going for a while...but even that hasn't helped all that much, delayed his death, not stopped it.

*Spoiler* Lazarus passes away in chapter 8

Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Guess I was right.

Chip> Not to critique, but how has Lazarus lived to 300 years old? There certainly were not too many 150 year old humans in London in 1840. Actually, even with modern medicine, a human living to 150 is beyond unlikely.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

Yeah, it's me Matt. I wrote that.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Ozzie: I think we might snap up a TGC set just to make the point about 'Gargoyles', so I doubt it would completely flop. But it would certainly be a tough sell.

Todd & Matt: Whistle the theme tune as you walk by. ;) j/k

Todd: You're right, and as I say, you don't need to get all the references, but when the Chungs and Roebling get as much attention as Hudson or Broadway, when Goliath is reduced to a third of the space in the comic, I could imagine it would feel disorienting (unless you're us and you know the landscape a little). I may be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I do know my brother kind of drifted from it. I'm not sure why exactly, and he may return to it because he loves the fads. I really can't see him making head nor tail of #7-9 though, and most of #3-5 blew past him as well.

Demonskrye: I agree, some re-establishing the status quo would be a great boon. 'Gargoyles' was never a show that had much regard for the status quo but we always knew basically what we were going to get, and every relationship was defined with reference to Goliath. Now the focus is diffused, not just from Goliath (who is still fairly prominent), but from the clan as a whole. I'm not sure we haven't seen more development on Brendan than we have Broadway. I adore the newly-prominent characters; Sarah Browne in particular is one of the most fascinating in the series to me. But I don't see the training wheels for newcomers. It's a moot point now though -- the comics are here, the audience will have largely made a judgment one way or t'other and we'll just have to see what comes next.

I maintain with the emotional narratives though... Some of this stuff we just haven't got to yet -- has Lex had time in the last couple of weeks to reflect on his sexuality? Given everything? And Brooklyn's arc has been nicely tracked. And what we have had is subtlety. We've had lots of nice character beats. I don't really have any qualms with the detail of what we're seeing, only that there's a certain amount of low-hanging fruit that everyone can get from the comic.

Tommy: No word yet, unfortunately.

Ed
"They're going 'oh, Orlando, who's that freak over there that we didn't notice?' I'm going, 'that's Johnny Depp!' They're going 'who cares? You were Legolas in Lord of the Rings!'... 'Ooh, look at me, I make art-house movies! Ooh, I've got scissors for hands!' Willy Wonka? Johnny W***er!" -- Orlando Bloom, 'Extras'

I think whoever wrote and posted that fanfic is a pretty hardcore fan. There are a lot of tidbits in the tale that no casual fan would know about. I suspect the author is a regular here and/or the GargWiki.

I don't think any gargoyle could live to be 300 years old though, that is beyond ancient even for their species.

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

TODD!> You're reading my fic!!! I'm so happy :)

It does seem to be exceedingly popular...I think I may retire my first fanfic and work exclusively on that one. (Thank you BTW, the plug in the comment room was better than any review.)

Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

I know u properly get this alot, but when will season 2- volume 2 come out, i really wanna get it, so i can get my last one.
tommy - [thunderguy6 at yahoo,com]
Thomas d. Paton

Sorry for the double post, but somebody at FanFiction.Net's come out with a fanfic based on the comic - set in 1840, when Old Pog (then not so old, of course) and a couple of other London gargoyles team up with Macbeth to stop Demona from opening the Amphora Pandora (Pandora's jar - the notion that it was a box came from a mistranslation by Erasmus, a 16th century Dutch scholar). You can find it here:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4349543/1/The_New_Adventures_Of_Old_Pog

I don't know if it's all that good (I haven't done more than glance at it), but I thought it might be worth mentioning, as maybe the first fanfic to make use of elements from the comic.

Todd Jensen

At least, since August 20 is my birthday, "Bad Guys" #4 could be my birthday present (if from myself to myself).
Todd Jensen

No Bad Guys #4 on midtown's newsletter for this upcoming week, but that jives with what's been happening with the release dates recently. So figure on an 8/20 release date, I think.
Meg

****Blaise slides into the Comment Room on a banana peel.****

Just a quick "Happy Belated Birthday" to Spen and PurpleGoldfish, and a "Happy On-Time Birthday" to Mochi!"

****Blaise slides out of the Room on the banana peel...and crashes into something that sounds very expensive.****

Blaise

Thanks for well wishing on my birthday today! I feel old... LOL

Can I pet the tuatara? I want to pet it! =P

The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>O.o)> It's my birthday and I have no clue what to do today... Maybe I'll take out my Japanese PS2 and put that thing to use... LOL

Matt> It's a common misconception. I think I've heard that particular one several times, though I'm not sure where exactly it originated. Maybe as someone initially misunderstanding the term "living fossil."
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]

The tuatara is NOT descended from dinosaurs. I don't know where they got that idea. Very cool animal though.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

Ed> Perhaps "shifting focus" is closer to what I mean than "slowing down," though I still think the concern that there is simply too much going on in some of the stories is a valid one. Wasting nothing and making every moment count is one thing, but creating such a whirlwind of characters and events that it's hard to get a handle on what's really important is another. I actually don't mind the inclusion of cameos by relatively minor characters. If you recognize Sarah Browne and her kids or Judge Roebling, you're really not missing out on that much. Mary and Finella's cameo is something that could work equally well if readers get to meet them later on and then realize that the same to women were present at the masque. Terry Chung's appearance works much the same way, though over a much longer period of time. It's fun for fans that they get to see him now and know what's going to happen with him, but explaining it to new readers would be completely pointless. What concerns me is the stuff that new readers are supposed to be following but may not be getting. I'm not really confident that every reader has been recognizing Vinnie on his trip to Japan and unless he has a real role in the Stone of Destiny storyline, I think his inclusion in issue #7 was a bit unnecessary in a story that already has a lot going on. Adding a quick summary of the characters and what's going on at the start of this issue, but as I've said, it's no substitute for letting the information come from the story itself in a timely way. To understand how something like Thailog's return reads for a newcomer to "Gargoyles," imagine if I was showing you the very first episode of "Gargoyles" you had ever seen and for some reason, it was "Avalon Part One." Now I could try to explain to you all the information you would need to know, like who Tom is and the presumed fate of the Wyvern clan's eggs. But it would never be the same. You would understand that Tom showing up in modern Manhattan and the "eggs" resurfacing as grown gargoyles is shocking, but you wouldn't actually *feel* shocked the way you would if you had learned about these things through the story way back in the beginning of season one.

Action scenes aren't my personal forte in the little writing that I do, so I think I tend to focus on character development even when suggesting what the comic should focus on. But by "slow down," I don't mean "bring the plot to a screeching halt so we can hang out with the characters for a bit." The stories that we've had in the comic so far have generally been pretty "big event" stories, focusing on pretty major happenings in the Gargiverse. In show terms, they're more on the level of the multiparters. What I want to see are stories that feel more like "Thrill of the Hunt," "Temptation," "Deadly Force," "Turf," and the like. I want stories that establish that these gargoyles are protectors of Manhattan and what a more typical day in their lives is like. All of the first season "character focus" episodes are pretty action packed, but they also give us a look at who these characters are and set up character arcs for them that continue into the rest of the series. "Turf" has its share of action as well. It brings Tomas Brod from Pague to New York and re-establishes Tony Dracon - who we hadn't seen in nearly thirty episodes - as a foe. I'm sure that given enough time, both of them would have resurfaced. But all of this is really secondary to the inevitable consequences of three young, unattached, male gargoyles meeting the first female gargoyles (REAL female gargoyle, Brooklyn) they've seen in ages who didn't think killing them might be acceptable. Plenty of action, plenty of story threads to be picked up in the future, and plenty of exploration of the characters.

It's true that fans have been imagining and in many cases writing their own versions of some of the scenarios I suggested for years, but that's still no substitute for canon stories. I'm not sure that this is still true, but Greg did say at one point that, while most of Elisa's family is very supportive of her relationship with Goliath, Derek/Talon will initially have a problem with it. That's something I definitely want to see play out. In fact, we're going to have to see things like that and Brooklyn introducing his family to their new home and Lex's reactions to suddenly being the only single guy in his generation if "Gargoyles" is going to retain the level of depth and believability it had as a TV series.

Just in case anyone is getting the wrong impression. I have personally enjoyed the "Gargoyles" comic very much and I'm looking forward to reading the remaining issues. I just think that when "Gargoyles" does return in whatever form, a couple of changes could be made so that hardcore fans get the new stories they want while new and casual fans can discover why "Gargoyles" is so special or remember why they liked it in the first place.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Yay for Henry and Mildred. May the 11 remaining eggs hatch healthy babies. ^..^ And I agree with the curator; I'd have been unhappy too in his situation. Glad they finally found that tumor and he's decided to be nice to the ladies. ;P
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]

Wait, what? Matt Bluestone is a Florida Marlins fan? Huh?

The Gathering of the Gargoyles still has T-SHIRTS and a few copies of the ITEMS OF ENCHANTMENT ANTHOLOGY for sale. For info, see this page:

http://www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com/g2008/merchandise.html

And here's an interesting story about a real species that lives as long and reproduces almost as slowly as our gargoyles. Harry the tuatara is 110 years young and soon he'll be a daddy:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/08/06/lizard.reproduces/index.html

Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2009]
"When 900 years you reach, look as good you will not." - Yoda

Well Nickerous, the only things they haven't tried releasing that I'm interested in is the Aladdin TV who and I'm kinda doubting that will get released at all with the current state of things. I think they have the release rights to the 90s Spider Man and X-Men cartoons but they don't seem interested in pursuing it because they'd have to share the profit with Marvel.

Fiddlesticks, I just realized the Tick is released by them and it's looking like it's another one that's not gonna get finished and it only had a season left to go too. I really hope I'm wrong about these and they're just running behind schedule. With 3 shows from Disney and 1 from Warner Brothers that aren't being completed, I'm beginning to feel like a sucker.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

where was princess katherines room at within castle wyverns layout?
david bailey

Happy belated birthday, PGfish.

Happy birthday, Mochi.

Samuel - [AnglOfHellO at AOL dot com]
Noodles, anyone?

thank you for your paying me the way i asked you too for the help i gave you in tampa at merlins in the early 90's .. it was very nice to see all you have done and with matt bluestone especially. it is amazing and it really makes me feel good to see matt come alive as he did and the show be as big as i knew it would be. your genius and honor you have it great. when i saw matt i smiled ear to ear... (delete this if nessary)
krist - [kstkst at sbcglobal dot net]
fantasy and reality come alive in gargoyles

Belated thanks for all the birthday wishes! :D And Happy Birthday to Mochi!
Purplegoldfish

Happy birthday to all guilty parties.

Saw Jethro Tull last night at the Wolftrap Center. Fantastic show. Ian Anderson may have lost most of his hair, but he hasn't lost his knack for entertaining, or his musical abilities.

Ozzie: Hey, man. Negativity is what keeps matter electrically neutral. Yes, some may say the glass is half full, and that the protons keep the matter neutral. I say it's the presence of the electrons.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"This song also features something called a claghorn. It has the mouthpiece of a tenor sax, combined with the body of a bamboo flute, all held together by some very expense gaffer tape. And as far as crude homemade instruments go, it actually sounds pretty fucking horrible." -Ian Anderson

Why not consider them? Isn't it better to have some of those favorite episodes rather than none at all? When I first recorded Gargoyles, I missed out on a ton of episodes, but I was happy to have those original airings uncut. Now that most have been released on DVD, I am even happier to have them uncut and in dvd-quality. Just wondering why you wouldn't consider getting them if you enjoyed it when the show aired originally. There are other ways of rounding out the set.
Nickerous

Ed, I agree that it's safe to say that if Season 3 were released on DVD that it would have terrible sales. It'd probably be the worst selling DVD in Disney history. Because most people who care enough about the series to buy the DVDs basicly feel that the 3rd season didn't happen, especially since the comic ignores it. 3rd season was terrible, felt like they were trying to cram some sort of "lesson" into every episode and basing it around that.

But yeah the DVD tv sets not being complete looks like it's becoming a trend. As I pointed out Disney releases their sets a year apart. Darkwing Duck vol 2 was released on August 7th of last year. It's August 7th now and not even so much as a release date announced for volume 3. We've gotten 50 episodes so far and there is a total of I think 100. Landon Thomas also mentioned Chip n Dale, Talespin, Ducktales, and Gummi Bears. But As I was never interested in collecting those I'm not sure how many episodes those are opposed to how many have been released. But it's safe to say for me at this point, I may buy Disney movies still but I'm not gonna consider anymore TV sets from them.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

MATT - Maybe, though I don't know how I'll recognize you if I see you.
Todd Jensen

Alright, Todd, I'm pretty sure you and I walk past each other around 8:55ish AM around West Pine and Taylor.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

I don't think that the way that Terry Chung was handled would be that confusing to new readers. He's just a kid whom Billy and Susan are trick-or-treating with at the start of #4, and who turns out to be the son of the ambassador whom Xanatos is talking to later in the comic. There didn't seem to be anything in that scene that required you to know that he was one of the future regulars of "The New Olympians", any more than #8 demanded that you know that "Coco" and "Amp" were the original names for two of the trio, back when "Gargoyles" was going to be a comedy.
Todd Jensen

Happy Birthday Purplegoldfish and belated happy birthday Spen!

Todd: It would need a medium which could subsist only on the 'core audience', but Disney aren't likely to be interested in licensing something of that nature. Graphic novels would help a lot, I think, because there would be fewer jump-on points and so it would be somewhat more accessible.

Demonskrye: I don't know that I agree with 'slow down'. Shift emphasis maybe, perhaps start with 2198. But I love Greg's economy. One of my favourite things about his writing in fact; nothing is wasted, and every moment is working on multiple levels. None of the domestic scenarios you describe are bad by any means but I don't really see the point in fleshing out scenarios we could pretty well guess (and have spent a decade guessing).


I still think the comic could have done more for new readers without compromising its stories though. Most comics have recap pages and some very complex TV shows can spend nearly 3 minutes on recapping. TOS had previouslies AND a status quo narration. The comics had almost nothing. Giving over 2 pages of art to a text-based recap would have marginally trimmed the artists' workloads, removed some of the clumsier exposition panels, given a leg-up to newbies and still left 22 pages of comic: standard length. Conversely, there's the argument that this would just have put people off once they realised how much there was to 'swot up on'.

In terms of the stories themselves, the casts are huge, and frequently involve characters who aren't on the DVDs or even have only been mentioned on Ask Greg -- Terry Chung means something to us, but what percentage of even the committed readership did that reference skip? Heck, even I couldn't put to mind immediately where Judge Roebling came from! You don't absolutely need to get the refs for the story to make sense but for anyone unused to Greg's style, it must just feel like information overload or a private joke they're not part of (which it kind of is).

Also, while the comic gives excellent 'bang for your buck' by normal comic standards -- sensational economy of storytelling, every panel lean and fit and moving something forward -- you only get the effect of this reading every issue, ideally in quick succession. Rarely is one story tracked for more than a few pages at a time; there are usually multiple subplots each issue, some blink-and-you-miss-them. Brooklyn's supergoyle return is an issue after the set-up with Angela. What does the White House stuff in #5 mean to a former watcher of the cartoon who's browsing the comic for the first time?

I'm not trying to knock Greg's work. I had a ball with those issues. His temporal experiment with the current storyline has been, for me, a phenomenal success. But I've been hooked for a decade. Kind of a safe 'get' for him.

I don't know there's really an answer. Maybe if some of the subplots in #3-5 had been siphoned off into a self-contained issue set around the same time. (Shows like 'Lost' regularly revisit the same period of time from different perspective). This might have made it clearer to newbies what the arcs were in each issue. But that's only for one arc and obviously all written before we knew one way or another how the comic would survive.

Either way, it's done now and we have 18 great, utterly uncompromised issues here or in the pipeline which is nothing to be sniffed at.


UmbrellaFish: It would certainly make a logical companion series for Batman:TAS. Fingers crossed.

Matt: Does the internet need a name? Does the comment room? I'll look forward to seeing the reply.

Ozzie: I wasn't aware it was such a trend. I don't suppose there's a chance that when BluRay (or the next definition format up) start taking hold, they'll be able to put more on a disc? Ironically, I think most people would be quite happy for them to stop after S2V2, especially given that Greg has incorporated 'The Journey' into the comic.

Ed
"He sold his soul for a shot at fame / Catchprase and wig and the jokes are lame / He's got no style, he's got no grace / He's banal and facile, he's a fat waste of space... Yeah, yeah, everybody sing that last line. One, two, three..." -- David Bowie, 'Extras'

BTW, sorry for always sounding so negative when I post on here. I'm bitter about alot of things in life right now.
Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

Someone pointed out that basicly none of Disney's TV shows are getting complete series. This is why I tried telling people years ago that if they do it with one show, we can't trust them anymore. You'd have to be a fool to believe all of those shows are because of bad sales. I'm sorry but if He-Man sells well enough to get the whole series out, so should Ducktales. But maybe they are selling poorly, since Disney thinks it's a good idea to put a year gap in between releases. So by the time the next set comes out, the people may have forgotten about it. After all we aren't getting any younger and not everyone is gonna be dilligent in waiting for a new box set. But once again that's a mistake by Disney and not the customer. The only show I know of that had gaps like that in the releases that was completed is Samurai Jack.

I've pointed out my dislike for stockholders before. They also care about making as much money as soon as possible rather then worrying about the business in the long run. Basicly I think this means Gargoyles is screwed no matter how many people we convince to buy the DVDs. Because they'll look at the sales and go "Oh look over a total of 3 years it sold such and such. Too bad it can't do that in one year or it would be worth continueing."

But maybe I'm a bit biased against corporations seeing as how the big 3 ruined the state of Michigan which is where I live.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby! This is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

DEMONSKRYE - You make a good point. I'll admit that I was excited about the Stone of Destiny story (even if it brings so much extra into the Gargoyles Universe) because it tapped into one of my favorite aspects of "Gargoyles": legend and history. But I think you could be right that the next revival of "Gargoyles" should focus more on the immediate situation - a small group of gargoyles in New York - and hold off on the larger tapestry for a while.

Though I wonder whether a lot of the crowded tone could be Greg being so excited about being able to write "Gargoyles" stories again that he simply ripped loose like an animal that's been confined in a cage for a long time and is suddenly free again.

In the last couple of days, by the way, Greg was asking about Constantine and Kenneth's banners at GargWiki. I wonder if that might have anything to do with the "Timedancer" story in #10-12, since we know that Brooklyn turns up in Scotland during Constantine's reign.

Todd Jensen

Oooooh, Greg knows who'd he cast to do the voices of Coco and Amp. I didn't even consider that. Maybe we can squeeze it out of him at a Gathering if we promise to keep it a secret. I personally wouldn't feel bad if our choices didn't match.

I'd pick Steven Blum, pitched up and with a British accent, for Amp. And maybe Candi Milo for Coco with a low gruffness.

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]

Well, 24 hours later and the CR seems to be bouncing. I guess all I had to do was wait.

Most of your New Camelot answers are interesting--I think I'll aske the question again when issue #9 comes out.

Happy Birthday PurpleGoldFish!

Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Todd> If "Gargoyles" does come back in whatever format and I could give Greg one piece of advice for the new stories, it would be "slow down." My concern is that, guided by the timeline, the comic was starting to feel like an overscheduled vacation, where the tourists are so desperate to make sure they "see everything" that they spend all of their time running around from one spot to another without really stopping to understand any of it. The issues that we've received so far - especially the Stone of Destiny storyline - have introduced tons of characters and concepts and exciting events, more if you haven't seen the TV show. And it's great for those of us who are already fans, because we're getting to revisit old friends and see what they're up to and what's new in their lives. But newcomers have barely enough time to digest the fact that there are gargoyles in Manhattan and they've just been revealed to the public for the first time before we're off to secret societies and mutates and clones and London and more gargoyles and Macbeth and King Arthur and robot gargoyles and....well, you get the idea.

I don't think there's much point in analyzing the comic's problems at this point, unless we can figure out how new iterations of "Gargoyles" could avoid these problems. The good thing looking ahead is that the period after issue #12 would be an ideal time to slow down the pace. The Manhattan clan is going to be welcoming some number of new members, including at least three who even longtime fans will be meeting for the first time. By necessity, the story is going to need to take some time for the members of the clan to get acquainted and for us to get to know the newcomers. Katana and Nashville (and maybe Fu-Dog) are all new to this place and this decade and could be excellent window characters for new readers.

Slowing down doesn't mean that the story becomes dull or gets bogged down in rehashing continuity that we already know. All it means is that we take a little time to get familiar with the situation in Manhattan (which is totally new to new readers and still very different than we longtime fans remember it to be), see where the members of the clan are in their lives right now, and start setting up what's to come. Boring? Hell no. Don't you want to see Elisa telling her family about her relationship with Goliath, or Broadway and Angela trying to get back from patrol in time to have a special dinner together, or Lex dealing with the fact that he's very suddenly the only single guy of his three brothers and gay to boot, or Brooklyn showing Katana and Nashville around Manhattan for the first timem or Fu-Dog and Bronx enjoying each other's company, or the clan trying to deal with the Quarrymen while keeping in mind that many of these people are just frightened citizens, orwhatever else might happen?

There are even ways to make the process of getting new readers caught up palatable to older fans and more organic. The introduction of Shari certainly helped to give necessary history a more natural feeling. There was an in-story reason for giving the information when Thailog was asking her for potentially useful stories. Once they arrive, Katana and Nashville will also make excellent reasons for other members of the clan to explain to them who a particular character is. As long as it's done on a need-to-know basis, it should be fine. Exposition can also feel more organic if it's planned so that we find out what we need to know well in advance of when we actually need that information. Think of how much more impactful Thailog's appearance would have been if the comic could have explained his origin and eventual disappearance a few issues beforehand rather than scant pages before he showed up.

UmbrellaFish> I would normally say that Disney is trying to create a largely live-action focused channel as so many networks seem to be doing and that chances for "Gargoyles" getting some more airtime are virtually nil. But the article does mention plans to continue airing "Batman" on the revamped channel, so I'm actually a little hopeful. If "Gargoyles" isn't in the initial lineup, it might not hurt to send a few e-mails reminding Disney that they have their own action-adventure cartoon about nocturnal city protectors. Of course, "Batman" does have the advantage of having a very popular movie franchise at the moment, while "Gargoyles" does not. But it can't hurt to express interest.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Happy belated birthday, PGF!
Asatira

You'll need to copy and paste that entire link below, not just the highlighted part.

Sorry for the double post.

UmbrellaFish

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-disney7-2008aug07,0,6413232.story?track=rss

Eh.. I'm not even going to comment on the fact that Disney Channel is becoming "the girl channel" and Toon Disney "the boy channel".... BUT.... Maybe this is a chance to get Gargoyles on at a time when people are actually awake?

UmbrellaFish

MATT - Yes to both.
Todd Jensen

Totally off topic, but...

Todd> I swear I keep playing neighborhood guess who with you. I keep thinking I'm seeing you in the morning. Do you have a beard and are you usually out walking somewhere around 9AM?

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

Happy birthday, to everyone who's got one!

ED - You make a good point; I think that's one of the biggest obstacles to reviving "Gargoyles". The series had become a complex tapestry by the end of Season Two, so that a revived version would be difficult for anyone new to it, who hadn't seen it back in the 90's. But the whole point of reviving it would be for the fans to find out what happened after "Hunter's Moon", in place of "The Goliath Chronicles". They wouldn't enjoy a lot of summary of the first two seasons (I know that there were several people frustrated with the first two issues being an adaptation of "The Journey", an episode they'd already seen). Nor would they be happy if Greg were to take an "Ultimate Gargoyles" approach and start the continuity of the series from scratch with a different origin story for the gargoyles, a different circle of friends and foes, etc. - indeed, that would defeat the entire purpose of reviving "Gargoyles". (The point of bringing "Gargoyles" back would be exploring that specific universe further; if it was just to get a great story, Greg could just as easily create something entirely new - which would have the advantage of everyone being new to it, and no old-timers frustrated over everything being explained to the newbies and holding up the story in the process, or newcomers being bewildered by all the events in the past two seasons' worth of continuity.)

I don't know how that problem would be solved, or even if it could be solved. Maybe the only proper way to further explore the Gargoyles Universe will be Greg's occasional revelations at "Ask Greg" and the Gatherings - where the people reading or hearing them will be the hard-core fans.

Todd Jensen

Abbie: You're welcome to help out at the GargWiki! And do you just want a screenshot of Elisa crying in Metamorphosis or the whole clip? Because I'd be more than happy to send you the screenshot. The clip would take longer. :P

And happy belated birthday, Purple Goldfish!

D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari

Abbie> Of course you can help out at GargWiki! We always appreciate new talent. However, before one of our administrators can give you editing priveleges, you first have to register your new username on the site. Once you've done that, feel free to pop back here and ask again! I'm afraid I don't know where you'd get that picture of Elisa from Metamorphosis.

PGF> Happy Birthday!
Mochi> Happy Birthday for tomorrow!

Supermorff

Thanks so much for your help, Landon! Afton and I really appreciate it :D It means a lot to us.
VoLpE de FuEgO - [dilbertje86 at yahoo dot com]
Noboby became somebody by following the rules.

PGF> Happy birthday. :)
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Happy Birthday PGF.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

PGF >> Your birthday is close to mine. My birthday is on Friday (8/8/08...so many eights~!!!). Anyway, happy birthday PGF!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> I'm full of chocolate~!!

PGF> Happy birthday! ^..^ *throws confetti*
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]

Purplegoldfish: Happy birthday!

VoLpE de FuEgO: Her email address is at the bottom of this page: http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Team_Atlantis

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]

Happy Birthday, PGF!
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
What would David Xanatos do? Well, he wouldn't sit at his computer bitching and moaning, that's for sure.

Happy Birthday, PurpleGoldfish! Hope you have a great day, cake and nifty presents!

-- S.

Stephen R, Sobotka
Deure muros temporis et spatii!

Thanks guys! Best party favors ever! :)
Purplegoldfish

Forgive the double post but Happy Birthday, Purplegoldfish! *throws party with Gargoyle comics as party favors* ^_^
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs

PGFish> HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Chip> I think its reasonable to assume that a large chunk of the founding population of New Camelot will be from the London Clan. Griff is likely to be involved, and the London Clan has high numbers anyway. I don't think it'll be a total branch of the London Clan because Greg has said that the Camelot Clan will be made up of gargoyles from around the world (likewise, the human poulation of New Camelot will be made up of humans from all corners of the Earth).

Ed> That is a good question. So good, in fact, that I'm going to go Ask Greg about it right now. Still... must we humans name everything?

Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on iTunes. Its always nice to hear what fellow fans have to say. Disinterest is probably right but I still have a small hope that Gargoyles will get up there. There's like three different Power Ranger series (which I cant stand). I think Ill still ask the question to Greg just to see what he says.

Chip > Dont worry, Im sure everyone will be more chatty once a new comic comes out. I know what my plan is: read the comic once, read the comic a second time, chat here, and then read it a third time before bed ^_^

Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs

Just dropping in to announce it's my birthday today ;)
Purplegoldfish

Hi! I'm Abbie! I've been to the gathering twice, and I would really like to help out with the gargoyle wiki! It says to post my username here so I will. :)
IdrilFay is the username I'd like, if I am allowed to join that is, also I'm trying to make a gargoyles music video, but I need the picture of Elisa crying in Metamorphusus, but I just can't find it! Dose anyone know where I can get it? Thanks!

Abbie
"I have a sunny disposition and am always kind to animals!"

Landon and dph> I think what's going on with the Disney Afternoon shows is in part a self-fulfilling prophecy. Disney feels that the sales of these shows on DVD aren't going to be terribly high, so they don't want to sink advertising money into them, ao the DVDs don't sell all that well, so Disney doesn't feel they should make more. And for all we talk about this being a stupid business strategy (and in some ways, it is), Disney does have some logic behind their thinking. These people aren't dumb. They know that if the advertised the DVDs more, they would sell more units. The problem is that they don't believe they would get ENOUGH additional sales for their advertising dollars. What it keeps coming down to is that Disney doesn't believe that "Gargoyles" and the other Disney Afternoon shows can do really good business for them anymore. And while I think convincing them that these shows do have an audience and can be profitable again is doable, it is going to take a lot of work.

Incidentally, I did a little websearhing to see if anyone of the Disney Afternoon shows were shceduled to get another DVD release. There is a rumor that "Gummi Bears" may be getting a second volume sometime later this year (probably alongside something else, since these set often come in pairs.) Nothing substantiated yet, but it is possible that it could come out very suddenly and without much advance notice. Remember, we first found out about Season 2 Volume 1 from the company that produced the special features.

Anonymous> If it were a choice between another DVD set and an iTunes release for Season Two Part Two, I'd agree and prefer to finish my DVD collection. But beggars can't be choosers and if Disney does consider distribution through iTunes a possibility, it's porbably going to be that or nothing. I think we should take every opportunity we get to support "Gargoyles" in any form, but if you personally don't want to buy the rest of season 2 in any format but DVD, that's fine.

Wingless> It may not hurt to let Lionsgate know that there are "Gargoyles" fans out there who would really like to see the DVD rights get picked up by another company if that's what it takes to get the second hald of Season Two on DVD. I would like to figure out a way to coordinate the lobbying so we don't just end up with three e-mail one month and two snail-mail letter three months later all going to people with no influence over purchasing DVD licenses. In the meantime, the best thing we can do is keep promoting the DVDs. The more they sell, the more likely either Lionsgate will think the license is a good deal or Disney will decide the show can make money.

Chip> I'm sorry I didn't respond at first. I just wasn't sure that I had any good thoughts on the subject. Certainly the London Clan's space issues make them an ideal candidate for founding a new clan. But the prevailing theory is that Griff will be a founding member of the new clan and the name of their protectorate certainly suggests the Arthur will be involved as well. I'm guessing that they'll be pretty well into their adventures when they decide to found New Camelot and start a clan there. So far, all they've done that we know about is figure out some places where Merlin isn't. Still, 2007 is about 10 years away from current events of the Gargiverse, so it's not unreasonable to think that Arthur and Griff may have found Merlin and accomplished various other goals and moved on to the task of building a new society by then.

Whenever New Camelot is founded, I am almost positive that some of the London Clan gargoyles will join as founding members. I'm guessing members of the younger generations would be more likely to go as the older gargoyles may be less willing to leave Knight's Spur where they've spent all of their long lives. But some of the older gargoyles may be feeling adventurous and personal ties rather than age may dictate who goes and who stays. I would like to see some debate among the clan too. Knight's Spur may be crowded, but it's safe, and some members may feel worried about any of the clan venturing out into a potentially hostile world. I'm still hoping that either Coco or Amp or both will leave with Lex and Hudson and join the Manhattan Clan, which hasn't personally done much "clan building" yet. (I'm also hoping Coldsteel will be somehow incapacitated by the end of issue #9, freeing up Coldstone and Coldfire to join the clan.) But if that doesn't happen, one or both of them we be great choices as founding members of the New Camelot clan, as we know them already.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Demonskrye: I worry that the comic was incredibly dense to begin with as well. The original had an 'anchor character' in Goliath. Season 1 paired him with a different cast member each episode and the upshot is we got to know these characters inside out. But the comic regularly had dozens of characters and small continuity moments, most entirely without explanation. Even in BG #1, Dingo and Matrix have very little context. I understand where Greg's coming from, and if we had 'Buffy' type audiences, it would all work out swimmingly, but comics which make no concessions at all to a new reader are kind of a bugbear of mine. This is a bit different since it's Greg continuing his own ongoing story, but I'm still torn between on the one hand being so glad he didn't neuter his huge, expansive plan, and on the other hand wishing he could have given a more newbie-friendly way in. Probably wouldn't have greatly affected things anyway though.

Matt: Cool questions about Rory. Personally, I'm just interested in the title of the spin-off. It feels a little unreal to me as "the Rory spin-off".

Chip: I hadn't thought that the London clan population could explain the breakaway New Camelot but it's a good idea. My money is on Staghart and Coco joining the Manhattan clan sooner or later but I could see them moving onto Camelot eventually.

Wingless: Wow. Fingers crossed. Cool about Boy Meets World too. I loved it as a kid but I suspect it wouldn't hold up now.

Ed
"You're not married, you haven't got a girlfriend... and you've never watched 'Star Trek?' ... Good Lord." -- Patrick Stewart , 'Extras'.

Sorry I made it boring for everyone.
Wingless

Gargoyles on iTunes> I can see how this would help the fandom and I hope they end up releasing it there.....but, if they don't, you could convert the episodes and view them on ipod yourself.....just saying...

Sucks about the comic. I hardly ever post anymore, but I pop in every now and then to check out what's going on. Might even make it to my first Gathering next year.

Nickerous

CHIP - I've wondered as well about the composition of the London Clan, but I'd better wait until #9 comes out and I read it before I speculate on what the future might be for Staghart and Constance.
CHTodd Jensen

Sorry for the double post...what I meant was it's boring right NOW. Also I'm thinking this Leo/Griff/Una avatar is the one for me.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

I hope so. Usually I love coming to this site, but it's boring.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

CHIP - I think that the room's currently more interested in discussing how to get Disney to do something more with "Gargoyles" than in discussing the content of the Gargoyles Universe. Maybe after a while that will change. (Of course, it's also possible that a lot of people just don't feel like posting at present.)
CHTodd Jensen

Wow, it is slow in here this week...I tried to inject some life with my New Camelot question...but there were no takers. I know that we're...dissapointed that Disney raised the license...but...I guess I should just look forward to next week and Bad Guys #4...*sigh*

I'm thinking of changing my avatar to Griff. Maybe I'll try it in my next post.

Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Lionsgate seems to be THE company that sees the potential behind things. The other night, I was watching the 'behind the scenes' featurette of "Cabin Fever" and Eli Roth (director) was saying that all the major production names turned him down except Lionsgate. So I don't see the hurt of contacting them :) On the same note, I think it's awesome that they're picking up shows that Disney's having a hard time agreeing to release on DvD; let's hope Gargoyles 2.2 is in that mix ;) But if they were going to pick it up, wouldn't they have contacted Greg by this time to let them know about it? Not sure how all that stuff works...
VoLpE de FuEgO - [dilbertje86 at yahoo dot com]
Noboby became somebody by following the rules.

Wherefore art thou, Vashkonda?

If anyone has any contact info for this person, could you please let him/her know that I'm looking for him/her? I'm not very familiar with all the top names in the fandom, so I'd appreciate any help. It's in regards to the audio clip of "Team Atlantis" that's shown @ the Gatherings. My friend Afton and I went to this year's Gathering and after hearing/watching it, we though the story was brilliant! We're dying to take a stab at it and make our own version of the media :D

Thanks everyone!

VoLpE de FuEgO - [dilbertje86 at yahoo dot com]
Noboby became somebody by following the rules.

Was just making my daily visit to tvshowsondvd.com and got a surprise

"Lionsgate Licences Many Programs from ABC Domestic/Disney: Boy Meets World, 8 Simple Rules & more!"

So, there we have it, Disney IS willing to license it's titles to other companies to release on DVD. Maybe there is hope for Gargs S2: V2.

Here's the story link:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Boy-Meets-World-Rights-Acquired/10252

Despite the choice of titles they're licensing-what do you all think of the potential? Maybe we should lobby Lionsgate. Any Thoughts?

Wingless

Anonymous> Yeah, I'd prefer that too...but I would also LOVE Gargoyles on iTunes. I use (or used to use, before I accidently busted it) my iPod all the time. I would buy any TV show that caught my fancy, and watch it at my leasure, waiting in lines and such. Disney has put up the Classic Episodes of Power Rangers (Ironic) from the 90's, I think if Gargoyles made it to iTunes, then the sales on iTunes might convince them to put out the season 2 v. 2 DVDs. I've made it a habit to request Gargoyles about once a week on iTunes.
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

I wouldn't want Gargoyles from iTunes, I want a nice shiny DVD Box on my shelf to sit next to the others.
Anonymous

Landon Thomas - You're right; Disney is sitting on a gold mine of stuff that could be released, but hasn't. There's so much stuff that it should be scheduled. But if somebody doesn't think there's enough money to be made off dvd sales, it won't happen.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

I think Demonskrye hit the nail on the head regarding Disney disinterest. And not just with Gargoyles. Darkwing Duck, Chip 'n Dale, Gummi Bears, TaleSpin, and DuckTales all have DVD lines that are unfinished with no more releases announced. Forget Gargoyles, if Disney can't make a Darkwing Duck DVD release profitable, they're doing something wrong.

That's why I think the 'poor sales' line isn't the whole story. Disney either doesn't care or the executives that did care have left. Besides the supposedly-failed DVDs, the only Gargoyles products that have been released since cancellation (C-Day?) have been the t-shirt and the comics. And these weren't Disney's ideas. They were approached by Hot Topic and CreatureComics, respectively, for licensing. So I think there is no brilliant scheme that can draw Disney's attention to Gargoyles again. Licensing is the only future the product has, at least until the current 80s nostalgia trend moves on to the 90s in 5-10 years.

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]

I have an interesting question...when do you guys think that the New Camelot Clan will be formed? Considering London's Population...New Camelot could be conceived by 2007...all that has to happen is for some Londoners to break away and form a new Clan. We've already speculated that Griff helps found that clan...is it too much of a leap to think that Staghart and Coco might help found it too?
Chip - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Landon> I agree that a late August release for #9 isn't tremendously likely. It'd be nice and I hope we get it sooner rather than later, but it may not be in the cards.

Matt> They were very interesting. Though to be perfectly honest, it's hard for me to get that excited about the prospects of a seventh "Gargoyles" spin-off starring Rory and the Banshee. Maybe if the property was thriving already. As it stands, it just feels like one more set of stories we're unlikely to see anytime soon.

Also in the latest set of questions, I was glad to see Greg explain Gwen's view of what happened in the last episode of SS-M season one. I had been wondering id Gwen knew that Eddie was Venom, given that the space of time between Peter seeing her go off with Eddie and Gwen being grabbed by Venom seems pretty short. My only remaining question is if Eddie still remembers the things he knew as Venom and if so, why he doesn't just out Peter as Spider-Man.

Litwolf> I've thought about this before myself and while I think Landon is correct that there are still some costs associated with putting the show up on iTunes, I'm pretty sure the costs would still be less than producing a DVD set. Again, I think "Gargoyles" is hurt by disinterest from Disney more than anything. iTunes and digital distribution are still pretty new at this point, so they're probably more interested in seeing if they can further exploit already popular shows like "Kim Possible" rather than seeing if a show that was released on DVD and didn't meet sales expectations might fare better on iTunes. My guess is that Greg would say he didn't know much about Disney's policies regarding putting shows on iTunes were you to ask him. I do think it's a good idea and I'd like to see it happen, but unfortunately, I don't think there's much chance of it anytime soon.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

I'm pretty sure Disney has to pay for the bandwidth of hosting on iTunes as well as the 'administrative costs' of the Apple deal. They have a lot of Disney Channel cartoons up on iTunes already and the oldest one, I believe, is Kim Possible. Gargoyles may be too old to jive with their current image and too unlike the lucrative live-action/tween/Hannah Montana paradigm they're promoting now. I think it's more complicated than 'they just haven't thought of it yet'.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]

Since the Buffy conversation slowed, here's a question I wanted to pose to the room. I was gonna post in for Greg Weisman to answer but I thought Id ask you first. Do you think that Gargoyles has a chance of being put up on iTunes for purchase and, if so, what effect that would have on its future?

Now I dont know much about how iTunes works but it doesnt seem like something Disney could really lose money on. They just put the episodes up there and theyre either bought or theyre not. It seems cheaper than relesing them on DVD because then Disney doesnt have to spend money on designing box art, gathering extra/special content, advertising, and other stuff that has to do with selling a DVD set. Probably cheaper than if Disney finally made the Season 2, Part 2 DVD set.

It doesnt seem like there's really a way to lose money if they put it up on iTunes. Its not like the episodes could waste money by gathering dust on a shelf if they were avaliable on iTunes. And if the episodes made decent money, maybe it would reflect positivly on the comic's future. What do you think?

Litwolf

CHIP - Yes, I think that the "Buffy" discussion drove into a dead end. Though maybe most of us were just too busy to post that particular Tuesday.

I certainly hope that we don't get any further big delays for #9. I've waited long enough for it already.

Todd Jensen

I found Greg's responses to my various Banshee questions to be pretty interesting. Maybe that is just me though...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

I can't wait for #9 either, but I won't be holding my breath for an August release, and not because of the approvals process. SLG twittered that BG #4 went to the printers on July 18 and it's scheduled to arrive August 13 so printing seems to take a bit of time.
Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at yahoo dot com]

Chip> You can say that again. I guess no one else wants to talk about Buffy. :P

Anyway, back to Gargoyles then, is anyone else excited by Greg's optimistic outlook on the release of #9? I'd love it by the end of August, that would be ideal, but early September would be great too. I'm just dying to read this one, especially since everyone who went to the Gathering really did stay tight-lipped lol.

Ricky

Slow week in the CR this week.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Demonskrye> " Nonetheless, I would be interested to hear from someone who has actually read the comic. Are there any efforts made to help people entering the Buffyverse for the first time learn what they need to know?"

*COMIC SPOILER(S)*

Well, so far there's been some flashbacks and some dialogue references to past Buffy events, but aside from that, not really. For example, Faith shows up, but there isn't really any explanation for the uninformed as to why she and Buffy would be kicking the **** out of each other.

Though I hadn't read that particular issue in a while, so I may be wrong about that.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Buffy Season 8 is awesome, if you guys are fans of the show, the comic definitely does not disappoint.

As far as the comic being accessible to new people entering into the Buffyverse, the comic doesn't make too much of an effort. To me the way it reads is just like the way a new season would begin, assuming that everyone watching (or in this case, reading) is aware of what's happened. It alludes to some things from previous seasons at times when it's relevant, but that's just about it.

Ricky

I liked the show, but simply haven't seriously thought about buying the comic yet.
Todd Jensen

Buffy Comic> As I said, I haven't read it either, but I suspect that Todd may be right and the Buffy comic may not be overly concerned with helping new readers get up to speed. The show in particular and Joss Wheedon in general both enjoy a large and still fairly active fanbase. The show did not end all that long ago and the whole series is available on DVD. Because of the show's popularity, people who didn't necessarily watch it a lot or at all may still be familiar with the characters and premise. Even someone who has never heard of the show could look at the title and gather that Buffy slays vampires, which is a good part of the show's premise right there. Nonetheless, I would be interested to hear from someone who has actually read the comic. Are there any efforts made to help people entering the Buffyverse for the first time learn what they need to know?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Todd Jensen> "I haven't read the "Buffy" comic (or at most, got a couple of glances at it at book and comic stores)"

If you don't mind my asking, How much of a Buffy fan are you? Cause if you liked the show even a little, you are really missing out by not reading the comics, IMHO.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

I haven't read the "Buffy" comic (or at most, got a couple of glances at it at book and comic stores), but I think that it had the advantage that Buffy's more familiar to the public than the gargoyles were, had more seasons, and ended more recently.
Todd Jensen

Antiyonder> Having that 2 page exposition spread in Gargoyles #1 certainly doesn't hurt the continuity, nor do the mild references that have popped up periodically.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

My question was how The Season 8 comic presents continuity in the event that the reader hasn't seen the show.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

Antiyonder>Because buffy aired next to xena warrior princes and all that junk. At that time shows like that that mocked things where just the in thing. Buffy kind of mocked well all vampire stories so it was fun. That was just a wierd tv time *L* Hell xena went for like how many seasons and they still have a gigantic convention for it each year in burbank California.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at Yahoo dot com]

Since I brought up Batman The Brave And The Bold, here's a recent interview with the show's voice director, Andrea Romano: http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=25341

As for whether the comic is too confusing because of continuity or lack of an obvious theme, how did Buffy The Vampire Slayer pull it off (I'm refering to the Season 8 storyline)? But then I suppose it would be a faulty example given that the show is still fresh in the fans mind.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

for everyone thats talking about spreding the word. Comic book conventions, Sci fi cons. Animation etc.. conventions in general. That is the best place. I've been going to small cons promoting gargs for awhile now.

Demonstryke as you said the recomending a show to friend etc.... Alot of time at cons you do that and you have a huge amount of people into gargs. Its like there are lots of people into gargs but alot of them are not activly on the internet as fans.

So I guess all in all... would anyone want to help me spred the word at cons...? If interested email me.

Shara - [jeanie54_2000 at Yahoo dot com]

Thanks so much for that info, Greg, and I'll be sure to stay tuned :D

On another note, my good friend Afton and I are interested in taking a shot @ "Team Atlantis"! We atteneded the Gathering this year and listened to the audio track along and saw the drawings artists did to coincide with the events in the story. So I guess I'd like to direct this to Vashkoda, since I read in the archives that he (or she) is the one to contact in regards to the audio track. Afton and I are very serious about collaborating to create our own artistic visual presentation for "Team Atlantis". So if you're reading this Vashkoda or if anyone who's associated with him/her can read this, could you please notify me in regards to how Afton and I can go about starting this, pretty please? We both plan on attending next year's Gathering as well so we're very excited about the projects we have lined up for it :D

I'd appreciate the help, everyone, and thank you!

VoLpE de FuEgO - [dilbertje86 at yahoo dot com]
Noboby became somebody by following the rules.

VoLpE de FuEgO> The 2009 staff is still looking into hotels. Once we have one, we will announce it.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
What would David Xanatos do? Well, he wouldn't sit at his computer bitching and moaning, that's for sure.

Hello everyone ^_^ So is there any news on whether a hotel for the '09 Gathering is close to being chosen? I'd rather put my money down for the reservation once a location is selected.
VoLpE de FuEgO - [dilbertje86 at yahoo dot com]
Noboby became somebody by following the rules.

HARVESTER - I agree with you on that. That scene in "Generations" made complete havoc of the Quarrymen's motivations. So did Castaway's claim in "Angels in the Night" that he knew that the gargoyles would go to the rescue of innocent people - which raised the question of how he and his followers justified their hatred for the gargoyles.
Todd Jensen

I also agree that what little we have seen of the Quarrymen in the canon series is infinitely more satisfying than what we got in TGC. There was one TGC episode in particular which showed how one-dimensional the Quarrymen were in that series. Essentially, they staged a mugging in order to lure the gargoyles into a trap, which suggests that they know that most gargoyles aren't really a threat, which just made the Quarrymen look like evil bastards.

So needless to say, I was extremely happy with the few pages we did get of Castaway in the comics. Yeah, the cancellation is a downer, but honestly, those few pages we saw Castaway in in Gargs #3 and Bad Guys #3... were very satisfying.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Well, they gave us everything for bending the mind, and we cleaned out their pockets and we drank 'em blind. It's a long way to the finish, so don't get left behind..." -The only band that really matters.

DEMONSKRYE - I agree that there would have been problems with including Macbeth in the live-action movie; his role in Shakespearean tragedy might have overshadowed everything else in the movie.

I think that the Stone of Destiny story would have to have been in "Clan-Building" because of the timing; the Stone was returned to Scotland (in real life) in November 1996 and "Hunter's Moon" took place in October 1996, so there wouldn't have been much intervening time. And I'm glad that Greg chose it as one of the stories; I wanted to see at least one story delving into the historical and legendary aspects of "Gargoyles", especially after the Goliath Chronicles ignored them.

I agree that much of the effectiveness of the Quarrymen comes from their being the frightened bystanders - or starting out that way - and that one of the big mistakes of the Goliath Chronicles was interpreting them as just another gang of villains. I wonder if the production team for "Goliath Chronicle" was afraid that humanizing the Quarrymen might make them seem too excusable and not make it clear enough that bigotry was wrong. Of course, the kind of strategy that they used in the series would have ensured the loss of the "Sarah and Vinnie" element in no time; the people who'd joined only because they were afraid for their families wouild have probably dropped out as soon as the organization started going for firing anti-aircraft guns in downtown Manhattan and attacking passenger trains. (Either that, or become so corrupted by the violence that they wound up becoming "Castaway and Banquo"-types instead.)

It's possible that some of the "toned-down" atmosphere was also to show that time isn't standing still. After the gargoyles are rescued by Xanatos at the end of "Hunter's Moon", they keep a low profile. Jason and Robyn Canmore admit that they're the ones responsible for the clock tower blowing up. The media eventually have to run other stories besides "Gargoyles are Real". That might lead to some of the panic wearing off. People start paying more attention to the latest celebrity scandals and let the gargoyle issue recede. Though I suppose that only Greg can answer that question for certain.

Todd Jensen

The Pulse is updated to reflect the news from Diamond that BG #4 is "expected" to be released on August 13th! Yay!
The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini

Finally some good news, Diamond has Bad Guys 4 out next week. so keep your fingers crossed.
VickyUK - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

It's going to sound like I'm having my very own Second Guess Greg Weisman Day, but that isn't my intention. I trust Greg's decisions for the most part and I know I probably couldn't do what he does. These are just some of my thoughts and opinions. Take from them what you will.

As we've been talking about the Quarrymen in the comic and I've been thinking about the problem of making the comic accessable to new readers, it occured to me that maybe the first few issues should have featured MORE of the Quarrymen. It's entirely possible that I feel that way partly because I've only seen a handful of TGC episodes and I don't have Quarrymen fatigue like a lot of fans. But keep in mind that in the canon sense, those episodes don't exist. The reason I think more time should have been devoted to the Quarrymen is that it could have given us some stories that would help to establish a baseline of "normalcy" for the series. A few short stories where the Manhattan clan dealt with the Quarrymen, some ordinary citizens and criminals, and maybe a few minor bad guys, could have given the new fans a chance to figure out the basics before the big adventures set in. Think about the first season of the show, how each episode told us a little more about who the characters were, what their world was like, and what dangers they faced. Now imagine if Goliath, Elisa, and Bronx had left on the World Tour halfway through the first season instead of halfway through the second. That would be pretty confusing, wouldn't it? Here you were just getting used to the concept of these tenth century gargoyles exploring twentieth century Manhattan and learning about this strange new world. Here you were thinking you had a pretty good idea of what this show was about. And suddenly, well before you really have a good hold on the gargoyles in Manhattan concept, it's about something completely different. It's about traveling around the world and inspiring heroes and trying to get back to a home and family you don't really know all that well. Like I said, confusing.

I think part of the problem for new readers is that it's hard to get a handle on what "Gargoyles" is really about. I totally agree that I didn't want to see the comic devolve into constant "protecting a world that hates and fears them," as that can get really annoying really fast. But given that it's such an important aspect of the show and the clan's lives, I would have liked to see them doing a little more protecting in Manhattan. And as the story is, it almost feels like the public learning about the existence of gargoyles hasn't made that much of a difference. We deal with it some in the first two issues and a little bit in the third, but then we're busy dealing with Thailog and Brentwood and Coldsteel and Coyote and whatever Xanatos is up to and possibly Shari and the whole idea of the Quarrymen and a scared populous being a threat just seems to go away. I'm sure Greg would have picked it up again later, but I can't help but wonder if it should have stayed center stage for a bit longer.

Of course, I do sympathize with the almost impossible task facing the comic. It has to be Season Three to the old fans and Season One to the general public simultaneously. Maybe if the first few issue of the comic after "The Journey" had been more like the first few episodes of the show, the longtime fans would have griped that the comic was too slow moving and catering to newcomers at the expense of moving the story forward. If I had known all along that the comic would only get twelve issues worth of material no matter what, I would have argued for pleasing the existing fans rather than slowing down to introduce the concept to new ones, so in hindsight, I'm glad we got the stories we did. But still, you kind of have to wonder.

Oh, and since I forgot to mention it and since it is kind of related, I think "Gargoyles 2198" would be the best spin-off to make as a stand alone concept. The title and some of the characters related it back to the original series enough to draw in existing fans, but it's set far enough in the future to make continuity less of a problem. I'm guessing Brooklyn and Demona don't show up right away so you could take the time to explain who they are when they do join the resistance. I think they should be handled kind of like Demona/"the Gorlois" in Team Atalantis; you only know as much about them as you need to at any given time. The one potential issue I could see was explaining the history of general human/gargoyle relations, how there were once problems and mistrust between the two species, but now they coexist peacefully. Still, I think it's workable. It's main strength is that it's can easily be seen as an alien invasion story first and a gargoyles in the future story second.

I have a salt shaker and ecourage you to take a grain from it alongside what I have just said.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

I asked the people at Boom! about picking up the comic and the reply was: "Our license with Disney currently only encompasses the Pixar and Muppets characters, so there are currently no plans for GARGOYLES, sorry to say."


Jade: Sort of. I mean, if Disney receive 50 packs of 50 fliers each, Starla in the mail room is gonna think, "wow, 50 people really like 'Gargoyles'!". And that's great, but Disney knows the show has a small, committed audience -- it isn't enough. Plus, what a dull job -- "Keith, here's another box of fliers for recycling."

What I'm suggesting is that we take fliers out into the world. Bulletin boards, dorm rooms, shop windows, car windows, dog kennels, comic book joints, leave them poking out of the free newspapers on trains. If you're going on holiday somewhere interesting, use one as a flag on a sandcastle or next to a German-language menu. Obviously I'm not saying people should litter -- get permission, but just find inventive fun ways to place them.

And for every flier, take a picture. Most people can take snaps on their phones. If someone is in the picture (not the same person every picture), so much the better. Upload them to a community photobucket account. Now those 50 people with 50 fliers have 2,500 different images of 'Gargoyles' posters in the world, all over the world -- and anyone can join in.

We don't even need to print them all out to send to Disney. Why piss off Starla? Just send in postcards every week or so. On the front, a funny or cool or inventive picture incorporating a gargoyles flier -- on the back, a link to the Photobucket account, the running total of snaps, and our request for Gargoyles S2V2.

A joke snap of a someone in an office with a Gargoyles poster taped to his back, or a picture of someone holding a flier with the Statue of Liberty in the background, or a cow leaning over a gate with a Gargoyles flier on -- these are going to be memorable, they're going to get talked around, they're going to get passed around the office and potentially they might make their point. Plus, bonus, we're SPREADING THE WORD.

I think just a big logo with "New to DVDs - Continued in Comics" or some such should do the trick. It needs to be instantly recognisable from a distance. There's no rush either -- but if we can collect a good number of images...


Todd: I heard about the series getting canned before I'd seen more than half the episodes. And because at that time it wasn't on television and I didn't know whether it would be on, I ended up being spoilt for most of the remaining big twists before I watched them. Personally, I'm more keen than ever to see new material but I'm not yet completely gutted because (1) with the rough equivalent of only three complete TV episodes released, the comics never got a good momentum up, and (2) I still feel optimistic that, sooner or later, something new will eventuate. And we have new regular work from Greg W.

Also, I think the Quarrymen are terrific villains -- all the better because they're 'us', the normal everyday bystanders of the Gargoyles universe. The Vinnies and Sarahs, not just the Banquos and Castaways. Even though I understand a weariness with them after TGC, I only saw each TGC ep once over a decade ago, and didn't even see the finale. So to me all I see is the promise of (especially) the issue "Nightwatch", which I consider one of the best 'Gargoyles' stories ever told.


Demonskrye: I'd agree that 'Buffy' and 'Angel', while generally strong, are kind of overrated. What I liked about them is their ambition to tell meaningful, complex stories, and the fact that every year Whedon would usually do at least one spectacular, inventive episode (albeit usually a gimmick). It always felt to me like looking through a talented artist's college sketchbook -- brilliant in places, baffling in others, but generally erratic and unfocused. 'Firefly' was shaping up to be a much stronger, more cohesive work, though 'Buffy' was obviously much more groundbreaking.

I'll try to come back to comment about the film another time, this post's long enough, but essentially I agree with everything you say.

Ed
"If we were to draw a graph of my process, of my method, it would be something like this: Sir Ian, Sir Ian, Sir Ian, Action--WIZARD, YOU SHALL NOT PASS!--Cut. Sir Ian, Sir Ian, Sir Ian." -- Sir Ian McKellen, 'Extras'.

RE: Quarrymen and racism

I'm also happy that Greg hasn't beaten us over the head with the whole "protecting a city that hates and fears them" angle. One of my biggest peeves with TGC was how they consistently rammed the Quarrymen down our throats. They weren't even very subtle about it, the entirity of TGC seemed like one big anti-racism PSA which seemed to teach us that predjudice is caused by mustash twirling villains because they hate puppies and sunshine. It was really the kind of thing I would have expected from an episode of Captain Planet.

In the comic the bigotry is more of a subtle undercurrent. Its never to far from are thoughts but it's not the be all and end all of the story telling. That said I am slightly dissapointed that we'll never see a second proper Quarrymen story. The first two issues did a nice job of introducing them but I wish we had the chance to explore them a bit more.

Algernon

******CopperCon 28 News***********
CopperCon 28 has extended the deadline on the room block to August 15th!
We're expecting at a total membership of less than 300 so if you've ever wanted to meet both Weisman and Hedgecock and not be just one face amongst hundreds or thousands now may be your ONLY chance...ever?
All the details at:
www.coppercon.org
Interested in breaking bread with our Guests of Honor? Contact Stephanie at cu28banker@coppercon.org for all the details (price $45)

CASFS - [cucon_publicity at yahoo dot com]

Picking up some threads from last week...

Getting People Hooked> Like most people here, I tend to check out shows based on recommendations from people I trust. I actually didn't like "Buffy" at all when I first saw the pilot, and an episode I saw later on with some college friends didn't wow me all that much. But my sister (who I would trust with my life, let alone my TV watching habits) would talk to me about how good the show was and eventually I gave it another chance. I never became a crazily devoted fan. I probably still haven't seen every episode. I haven't checked out the Dark Horse comic and I've only seen a few episodes of "Angel." But I watched the show and I liked it. When my sister asked me to tape the last few episodes for her, I watched them. I think it's a good show but I mostly just enjoy watching it with her because it's something fun we can share.

Of course, the problem with this method of promotion is that you have to be someone's trusted friend (or at least trusted recommender of entertainment) and that's not an easy thing to do. The upside is that if you have people who trust your opinions, they probably will check out the show or the comic just on your say-so, while random people on the internet who you don't know all that well or at all are much more likely to ignore you.

Live-Action Movie> What worried me about the treatment for the proposed film was that it seemed to be trying to both streamline the story and make sure everything was adequately set up for future potential sequels. Putting the gargoyles in Macbeth's castle means we're either going to have to deal with Macbeth in addition to the plot of "Awakening" or his presence is going to be utterly baffling to anyone who doesn't already know the role he's going to play later on. I could easily see reviewer making comments like "For some completely unknown reason, the gargoyles reside in the castle of the Scottish king Macbeth." Same goes for both cutting the cast down to three main gargs and laying the groundwork for the rest of the clan awakening. It's not that I mind changes being made to the original; I'm just not sure the changes being made would really help new viewers understand what was going on. Of course, I do realize this was just a treatment (and a pretty old one by now). I generally trust Greg W, and I think problems with translating a TV series into a movie are not limited to "Gargoyles." One of the reasons I'm not all that psyched for the "Avatar" movie is that I've heard it's supposed to be a faithful adaptation of the first season. But since the first season runs way longer than a movie reasonably could, either events will have to be cut or the film will be ridiculously packed and move at a breakneck pave to cove everything. Somthing's gotta give.

Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]

Todd> I'm the exact opposite. The news of cancellation has been devastating to me. I had forgotten Gargoyles after "The Goliath Chronicles" and re-joined the fandom in 2004. I didn't even know that TGC was non-canon till I read it here. (Though, I did agree that it wasn't very good) When Gargolyes ended, I didn't think much of it at the time (I was 8 or 9,) I just moved on to my next kick, though Gargoyles did stick with me for a while, even after cancellation.

After I rejoined the fandom, it really sparked my passion for the show, enough so that I was able to make it to the 2006 Gathering in LA. I met Greg, Keith David, Thom Adcox, and Brigitte Bakko there and it excited me even more that these guys we so nice and cool with their fans. I even bought Brigitte Bakko a copy of Gargoyles #1.

Now, it really stings--and I know that if a new set of Fan-fictions like TGS arise after the last issue...I want to be a part of it.

As for issue 9...well, it has been INCREADIBLY hard to keep my mouth shut about the speculations and such going around about issue #9 and the Stone of Destiny stuff. I'll be relieved when I can talk freely. Plus, we haven't seen the artwork--nor the order of events in the comic panels...remember we read the Radio Play in chronological order, I look forward to the NON-linear format that it's supposed to be in.

Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

Spen> Happy birthday! ^..^
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth-dragon at hotmail dot com]

I've been thinking more about the non-renewal of "Gargoyles". It was probably less of a shock for me than it might have been, since the long gaps between issue releases had made the comic more an occasional event than a regular one. Also, as I thought about it during this past week, I realized that I had, in some ways, moved on from "Gargoyles" - not rejected it (I still like it) - but that I no longer felt as much of a burning desire to find out what had happened next. Certainly not on the level that I had when the show was first canceled. (If I found out that a fresh "Gargoyles" fanfic project, like TGS, was being formed in the aftermath of the non-renewal, I doubt that I'd be interested in joining it this time.)

I think that this time around, what drew me the most, in the end, was intellectual curiosity - how Greg would handle the aftermath of "Hunter's Moon" differently from the Goliath Chronicles (especially the Quarrymen and the public response to the discovery that gargoyles existed), the continuing incorporation of legend, history, and classic literature into the Gargoyles Universe - rather than caring about the characters. I've still enjoyed the comic book, but maybe with a more detached tone than I enjoyed the television series.

One difference that I *have* noticed from the Goliath Chronicles is that Greg hasn't made the "Quarryman problem" (by which I mean the general xenophobia issues) as omnipresent. Much has been said about Castaway being less of a raving lunatic in the comic book than in the Goliath Chronicles; the "hated and feared by humanity" aspect is also not as prevalent. There are signs of it still in the Double Date story, but the main antagonist there is Thailog, who doesn't have any ties to the human response to the gargoyles. In the Stone of Destiny story, the Illuminati and Xanatos aren't interested in the gargoyles except as potential interference that have to be kept busy with a robot attack; their target is something else (ostensibly the Stone of Destiny, but I think that their real target is Arthur and that the Stone is just a decoy - we'll find out the truth when #9 comes out). And we know that the final story in "Clan-Building" is "Timedancer", which will presumably be more about Brooklyn's adventures in the past with the Phoenix Gate.

I wonder, by the way, who'll be the most joyful when "Gargoyles" #9 comes out: the people who weren't at the Gathering, who can finally read it and find out how the Stone of Destiny story ends (like me), or the people who *were* at the Gathering and no longer have to keep silent about it.

Todd Jensen

And as Vinnie would say: "And away we go on with the show!"

Landon Thomas> Thanks for the links. I didn't see any of that in the last week's CR. It would be cool if you could do a recap each week of last week's activity, whether it be Garg or non-Garg related. Good work.

Happy B-day Spen!

I hope to keep abreast of Diamond's updates today and will share the news and update the Pulse later afternoon / early evening with any news of BG #4. I hope everyone has a great day!

The Gargoyles Pulse
~ Anthony Tini

Tenth. Happy Birthday, Spen.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"No, Starvin' Marvin, that's Kenny's creamed corn! No, Starvin' Marvin! THAT'S A BAD STARVIN' MARVIN!" -Eric Cartman

9th in the name of, well, the sky and the river. :P
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

8TH in the name of the Spen's birth anniversary!!!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising." -Mark Twain, 'A Connecticult Yankee in King Arthur's Court'

7th
VickyUK - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

6th due to insomnia. Happier note, happy birthday Spen!
Asatira

5th & happy birthday Spen!
Algernon

Happy Birthday Spen.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]

4th

Happy birthday, Spen!

Random non-Garg stuff from the past week:

New poster for the 2nd season of Spectacular Spider-Man revealing Kraven and Mysterio designs: http://marvel.toonzone.net/news.php?action=fullnews&id=59

TSS-M season 2 is slated for March, though without a disclosed network, who knows how reliable this is: http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0808/02/index.htm

Several TSS-M cast and crew video interviews from SDCC, including Greg in his spiffy new shirt: http://www.movieweb.com/tv/news/15/30215.php

The SDCC SLG panel gets it most prominent coverage yet at Newsarama: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080803-SDCCSLG.html

Landon Thomas - [lumpmoose at googles dot email dot service]

Third in the Name of Bad Guys #4
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
"Whenever you find a man who says he doesn't believe in a real Right and Wrong, You will find the same man going back on this a moment later."--C.S. Lewis

happy b-day Spen. 2nd!!
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

First on my birthday!
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."