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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending May 31, 2010

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That was pretty funny, but I really liked the "Tiara" comic.
Rebel

In a slightly more upbeat discussion of D. Taina's work, I must say I much prefer her explanation of a certain event in City of Stone than Greg Weisman's version.

http://dtaina.deviantart.com/art/Till-Death-Do-Us-Part-161229902

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Yeah, all right. See ya. I should lay off Station Eight for a bit. I got fics to work, after all.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

NinjaSheik: I'd love to make a serious comic, but to be honest, I'm having enough trouble keeping up with the comedy as it is. I appreciate your interest in my art, though.

Now, please, keep this off Station 8. This discussion doesn't belong here; it belongs in DeviantART.

D. Taina - [<-- DeviantART]
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari

Never mind, all of you. I have other things to deal with right now.

And you know, sometimes I wonder...No. You'll probaby critize me again.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

If I was D. Taina, this exchange would convince me not to make a comic...

NinjaSheik, she'll make one if she wants to. You asked her about it and she specifically said, "Yes, I've thought of it." That means she's still not sure whether she wants to make one or not, or she's not disclosing her answer at this time. There's nothing to gain by pressing her for an answer.

Rebel

NinjaSheik> Take a look at your previous quote.

<<I have no history with Taina. I don't even know her that well, just her works. She told me before that perfer to stay in tune with her comedy comics, but ask her to think about it.>>

It sounds to me like you already got your answer. Now you're just harassing.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

<Demonskrye> I'm not critizing anyone.

<D. Taina> Can you please give me your answer?

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Saying that a lot of people don't take on the task of doing regular fanfiction comics because it is a lot of work (among other reasons) is perfectly fine.

Jumping to the conclusion that one individual artist is not going to be producing serious fanfiction comics and that the reason is because she "can't handle it" is something else entirely. If you reall believe there's about a fifty/fifty chance of someone making a fan comic (which seems like an odd statistic), then isn't it equally likely that D. Taina might have said yes? The way you phrased you statement made it sound like you were criticizing one particular artist for not being capable of doing serious fan comics rather than acknowledging that most people would find it a daunting task for any number of reasons.

Demonskrye - [<---Sesame Street (soon!) at The Ink and Pixel Club]

I thought that was a joke.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

In case anyone missed it, we now know what kind of pudding Demona enjoys with her buffalo wings.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=12257

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

To obscurely co-opt a lyric from Paul Simon...

You know fan sites come and fan sites go, so, what are you gonna do about it is what I'd like to know.

That is... what someone chooses to spend their free time on is their business. No fan owes any other fan any apologies in that regard.

Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

<Greg> Yeah, me too. But with a show that was so popular when we it was aired on TV, it's kinda sad that you don't see doujinshi (fan-made comics) on the web.

I saw D.Taina's Gargoyles Imagery Resource. That place have been down for some time now. When was the last time it was even updated?

If you think logical, the chance for someone doing a doujinshi is 50/50 only because of how much time and ink someone will have to give up to do it.

I'm not going to be mad if she says "no". She's got a life and everything else, so they chance of her doing it really seems like a "no" to me. It's tough making a doujinshi, even I know that and I have NO idea how to even make one.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

<<I'm not being rude, I'm just saying that the chance for someone to do a real doujinshi is 50/50.>>

I'd rather have a canon comic book written by Greg. But that's just me.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

I have no history with Taina. I don't even know her that well, just her works. She told me before that perfer to stay in tune with her comedy comics, but ask her to think about it.

I'm not being rude, I'm just saying that the chance for someone to do a real doujinshi is 50/50.

Taina, please tell me your answer so I can get on with this.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

NinjaSheik> I don't know what your past history with D. Taina might be, but I think you're being very rude. Putting words in other people's mouths and assuming that the reason they aren't creating the kind of work you wish they would create is because "it would be too much to handle" is not very mature behavior.

Again, I don't know what your beef is, but I'd prefer you leave it outside of the comment room because I, for one, don't want to hear it.

Demonskrye - [<---Batman and Limitations at The Ink and Pixel Club]

<Harvester of Eyes> I know, but I've seen many people give making comics on DA. It'd be no surprise to me. If there was a way I could make my own doujinshi (fan-made manga/comic), I would.

Alas, I don't know any other way than Photoshop and a scaner, both that I don't have.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Ninja Shiek: Maybe you should let Taina explain her reasons (when she feels like it) instead of making assumptions. It's not for nothing that a wise-man once said that assumptions are the mother of all f*ck-ups.
Harvester of Eyes
"I don't know, I'm making this up as I go." -Indiana Jones

<Landon> I heard Demona's voice actress will be voicing Queen Bee. And if Greg Weisman is working on it, there's bound to be something that refers to Gargoyles.

I'm defiantly watching it for sure! To hear Demona's voice again would be awesome. I wonder who else is voicing for the characters in YJ.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Actually this has been a pretty busy week for the Comment Room IMHO, but there are definitely slow weeks here and there.

I plan to watch Young Justice and cover news about it during its run. They're already prepping 26 episodes, which is a real vote of confidence from Cartoon Network.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

NINJASHEIK> <<The Comment Room is slow again...Sigh, how boring.>>

Well, when that happens, why don't you go read a book?

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

The Comment Room is slow again...Sigh, how boring.

So, just curious; How many of you guys are going to watch the new series "Young Justice"?

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

And have you decided, D. Taina. My guess you said "no". It'd be too much for you to handle and you prefer to stay with your comedy.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Patrick: [LOL] Terrible twos. Awesome!

Ian Perez: You're right, Thailog should be watching Barney instead of Power Rangers!

NinjaSheik: I remember you. Yes, I've thought of it. :P

D. Taina - [<-- DeviantART]
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari

When I saw Thailog in that toga, I totally laughed. I never thought seeing him something like that!

<Ian> Thanks. I'll check it out.

<D. Tania> Hello again! Have you thought about what I said about makeing a serious Gargoyles comics? Oh, you probably don't know what I'm taking about since I go by a different name on DA. I'm Utauda, remember?

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

*Laughs at Patrick*
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

Considering all the stuff Thailog's done at age one, it's hard to imagine what his "terrible twos" are going to be like.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Taína...no real-world one-year old cares about the history of the world--or "Power Rangers" for that matter. Thailog is just advanced, in that way clones usually are. :P

Seriously, though, I have lots of love for Shari and her stories. I love me some mysterious background manipulators--the same reason why the Weird Sisters fascinated me when I first saw "City of Stone"-- and the fact that she's educational and non-stereotypically middle eastern (except for, well that--but, then, that's arguably the entire point of the character) are icing. I do hope, however, that, unlike with the Weird Sisters, any reveal involving her turns out to be suitably climactic.

@Ninjasheik: Foine. The link is: http://www.fanfiction.net/~monstersofny . Go nuts.

Ian Perez - [doknowbutchie at gmail dot com]

NinjaSheik: "Shari sure knows a lot of stories. Pretty boring, though."

Yeah, what one-year-old in their right mind would want to hear the history of the world from somebody who's probably lived a very long time and experienced many things? How BORING. Thailog should just tune in to Power Rangers from now on.

D. Taina
"The story is told -- though who can say if it be true..." -Shari

Moment of silence for Gary Coleman. And to those hearing the news for the first time, please don't ask me what I'm talking about.
Harvester of Eyes
...

<Greg> Oh, never mind.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Long story short, I have read good fanfiction and I don't think it is inherently bad, but I think anyone who wants to pursue writing seriously is best off starting on his or her own original work sooner rather than later. Fanfiction can be a great way to explore writing for the first time since someone has done part of the work already. And if someone is perfectly happy writing fanfiction as a hobby and not taking their writing any further, more power to 'em. What I don't entirely get are the people who throw so much time and effort into writing massive fanfic novels hundreds of pages long and never take a step back and say "You know, this may be fun, but maybe I should try writing something that is completely my own where I can claim all the credit and reap all of the rewards instead of exclusively writing stories I can never sell."
Demonskrye - [<---Batman and Limitations at The Ink and Pixel Club]

<<Shari sure knows a lot of stories. Pretty boring, though.>>

What?

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

Shari sure knows a lot of stories. Pretty boring, though.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

IAN PEREZ - I once wrote a short Narnia fanfiction (entitled "The Forgotten Pevensie") whose core point was also rooted in the Chronicles of Narnia, and wouldn't have worked outside it; it gave a look at Susan's falling away in "The Last Battle", combined (in a somewhat metafictional way) with my observation that she's the only one of the original four children who had no memorable moment of her own in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe". (Lucy had the meeting with Mr. Tumnus, Edmund being tempted by the White Witch - Turkish Delight and all, and Peter the fight with Maugrim.)

PHOENICIAN - I remember, a while ago, looking at an unabridged copy of "The Arabian Nights" in a bookstore and checking to see if Scheherazade began any of her tales in it with "The story is told - though who can say if it be true...." (Alas, she didn't.)

Todd Jensen

First of all, I don't hate fanfiction. I just hate bad writing. There's a lot of bad writing in fanfiction. Though, frankly, there's a lot of bad writing every where.

I mean, take "Avatar" for example. That movie had a terrible, and completely uninspired, script. I could rant about how uncreative the name "unobtanium" actually is, but that's just scratching the service, and we'd be here all day if I went on.

I've read good fanfiction also, and I liked it, and I hope those writers keep writing. Whether it's more fanfic, or something original.

I just felt I should make that clear.

IAN> <<I'm curious, Greg, what do you feel about authors who work on franchise series, such as the authors of the Star Wars Expanded universe or the mainstream DC/Mavel comics? There are certain groups which would consider works like those little more than officially sanctioned fan fiction (although notably, that's a charge usually lobbied at works one doesn't like) and in some cases, I would agree (for example, in the case of most of Geoff Johns' work)--however, like with fanfiction, I feel that it can also be a canvas to create great work that wouldn't be possible within an original concept.>>

It's professional work, so by definition, it's not really fanfiction. But even then, I kind of equate it to writing for a television show without being the showrunner.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

No problem, Ian. Can you give me a link to your FF. Net? And maybe, just maybe you might like to read my fic.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Divine Comedy -- I just finished Dante's Inferno recently (having taken a break from my unabridged A Thousand and One Arabian Nights . . . I'm still in the first 50 days, oy) -- and I was lucky enough to have a wonderful edition that had the original Italian on the right with the translated English on the left -- the translator even put in enough effort to have the English rhyme d: . . . Must have tired him out though, since he's yet to come out with equivalent translations for the Purgatorio and the Paradisio . . . anyone have any recommendations?
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

@NinjaSheik: Thanks for the heads-up about the link. I'll try to fix it.


One fanfic author whose stuff I'm really getting into is rthstewart, who writes The Chronicles of Narnia fan fiction--which, it's worth noting, is a series I knew almost nothing about when I began reading his (or her: I'm not sure) stuff: I only actually began reading the series after I found myself loving his/her take on the 'verse. An index of his/her stuff can be seen at his FF.net profile: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1873140/rthstewart


Personally, I think the author could write original material if he/she wanted to—as it is, the completed works include a lot of original characters who manage to feel quite three-dimensional, as well as themes which were not touched upon at all in the originals, but which could make very interesting books in themselves—for example, one of his/her stories, "The Stone Gryphon", features a couple of paleontologists and an Arab spy of his own creation, and therefore features a lot of (apparently very-well researched) talk on the subjects, as well as an exploration of how World War II affected England. Why write about Narnia at all, then? From my own observations, I feel that it's because it allows rthstewart to approach the plot from a point of view that wouldn't be possible without it, and which gives the story a philosophical and thematic core that wouldn't exist without it. Without Narnia to tie the whole thing together, the whole work would feel like just a collection of conversations. And even with all the original material, the whole work still manages to feel like Narnia--although in this case, it helps that C.S. Lewis took a very broad-strokes approach to his story, leaving sizable gaps that makes fanfic writing rather easy.

On my own end, "Monsters of New York" was born because I found the similarities between both series fascinating, and I wanted to see how I could combine the series as seamlessly as possible (which includes explaining, for example, why one group of characters isn't present in the other's adventures) while still telling a story. I don't know if I'm succeeding or not, but still, I'm having lots of fun creating timelines and concepts, and, as a side bonus, I feel it prepares me for my eventual work on my own original concept, which I've been fine-tuning for a while now but still don't feel actually confident enough to write yet (although that may just be an excuse from my part). Plus, I always feel I work better when I have a set of defined boundaries to follow—excessive freedom tends to constrain me.

I'm curious, Greg, what do you feel about authors who work on franchise series, such as the authors of the Star Wars Expanded universe or the mainstream DC/Mavel comics? There are certain groups which would consider works like those little more than officially sanctioned fan fiction (although notably, that's a charge usually lobbied at works one doesn't like) and in some cases, I would agree (for example, in the case of most of Geoff Johns' work)--however, like with fanfiction, I feel that it can also be a canvas to create great work that wouldn't be possible within an original concept.

Ian Perez - [doknowbutchie at gmail dot com]

Okay, humans, I thought you'd like to know that I am currently on twitter trying to get Boom Studios' to notice me and my kind.

I have a book I want to publish through them. "The Story of Demona: My Struggle" a tale of genocide and revenge, written by, well, me.

I suppose, getting them to allow that Weisman human to write more comic books about Goliath and his clan of Uncle Toms wouldn't hurt, as long as I have a role in the book.

So, feel free to follow me on twitter.
http://twitter.com/Demona_Gargoyle

I also have a formspring account if you must ask me any questions. If you must reach me, that's the place, as I refuse to post here because, quite honestly, the less I have to do with your wingless kind, the better.
http://www.formspring.me/DemonaGargoyle

And, by the dragon, does the only icon of me on here have an animation error?!!!! I would never wear a top with two shoulder straps!

Demona - [Yes, it's me!]
"Humanity is a poison that must be purged from this planet!" - me

Where does a 1,000 year old Scottish gargoyle sleep? Anywhere he wants! I'm here all week, folks.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Thank you for the confirmation.

And yeah, I have NO idea what Divine Comedy is.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

<<My sister remember reading something about because Brooklyn is Goliath's second-in-command, he should sleep directly under Goliath's parapet or whatever.

I don't think that's really true, since I see Brooklyn sleeps wherever he wants.>>

I think we've only sleep at the castle ONCE since he became second-in-command. At the end of "Hunter's Moon."

In the comic, the one time we saw it, yeah, he was there too.

So, unless you're basing this on "The Goliath Chronicles," (which you really, really shouldn't) then, yes, that's where Brooklyn sleeps.

<<No, I'm more of a romantic.>>

What does that mean? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't know what the Divine Comedy is.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

<Greg> No, I'm more of a romantic.

Oh hey, I've been browsing th archives trying to find something that's been bothering me. I know as leader of a clan, the leader sleeps at a higher place than his brothers and sisters, right?

Which is what Goliath seems to do.

My sister remember reading something about because Brooklyn is Goliath's second-in-command, he should sleep directly under Goliath's parapet or whatever.

I don't think that's really true, since I see Brooklyn sleeps wherever he wants.

So generally my question is do second-in-commands usually sleep directly below the clan's leader

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

BISHANSKY - Dante's Divine Comedy is a lot of fun - though it helps when you've got a glossary to explain the various medieval Italians who dominate the afterlife in his work. (Of course, seven hundred years from now, a lot of the big names of today will probably be as obscure to the people living then as Farinata and Ugolino are to the average American.)
Todd Jensen

<<If none of you guys are willing to look past all that stuff, you'll never understand the joy of reading fanfics. >>

I used to read A LOT of fanfiction. But I get a lot more joy reading novels and classics.

I'm currently reading Dante's "The Divine Comedy." Ever read that?

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

I don't even read stuff like that, Greg. That's too weird.

But you can't say like fics are bad! There are some good ones, you just need to know where do find it.

People write for the pleasure of it, knowing they can do whatever they want in it. Some people actually like that stuff, and that's okay.

Just find the kind of fic that you like. Don't be so judgemental if you haven't read anything besides Gargoyles fics. Trust me, that section is going down hill.

And yes, it's true people do it to be with their favorite character, but who cares? Don't you also want to meet your favorite character? If you don't like that stuff, don't read it. I read OCs sometimes, too. I use to think it was weird, but I actually gave it a try and I liked it.

If none of you guys are willing to look past all that stuff, you'll never understand the joy of reading fanfics. Don't forget I'm a author, too, and I read other people's works.

<And frankly many fanfics have lacked imagination. If there's a character that the fan fic writer deems boring, they simply respond by killing said character off or putting the character through torture. A fanfic writer with imagination would try to make the character more appealing while again keeping said character close to the canon.>

I agree, people do lack imgination, which is exactly why I'm doing my Gargoyles fic. I said before when I was writing in the SSB section and the Fire Emblem, my sister made a remark that I was like a competetion for other authors since fics on those sections updated faster than usual.

I usually laughed when she said that, but sometimes I think I do bring some competetion. My teachers always say I have great ideas when I do writing assignments.

I still make grammer and spelling mistakes in my fics, but I like the ideas I came up with, even if you guys don't like. But when I read fics from the Gargoyles section, I get bored with some of it.

The ideas I talked about in this Comment Room were never used in a fic before. I'm decided to change that and write my own Gargoyles fic. That section in FF. Net is next to dead, but few decided to keep writing.

I want to help and I will try my best trying to stay close to the canon.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Greg B> Believe me, I'm not suggesting a change as drastic as Gargoyles in High School. In fact of the fanfics I've listed, I'd say that Avatar Distorted Reality is the best example of doing some different which the characters while keeping them familiar. For instance:

[SPOILER] For instance, Katara while she plays the role of the major female antagonist (like the canon Azula), she still retains personality traits of her canon counterpart. While canon Azula could careless about her brother, Distorted Reality Katara cares for Sokka and even wants to help him capture the Avatar. [/SPOILER]

Antiyonder

My point of view has always been this. How far can you bend a character until you twist that character into something unrecognizable?

If you feel you need to do that, just create your own characters. Maybe you can even get it published.

I mean, does anyone really want to read about the cast of "Gargoyles" as High School students? No, I didn't think so.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

NinjaSheik> I read fanfics that stays in tune with the characters, but I'm not afraid reading fanfics that are different from non-canon to any shows.

And as I said before, it is possible to deviate from the canon while still keeping true to it. All that's needed is good writing and execution.

>They're called fanfics for a reason and Fanfiction. Net was made to express writers' imginations.

Sure, they're called fanfics because they are (supposedly) written by fans of the series. But many of them don't read like they're a labor of love. Most read like they were written by fans who don't care so much for the canon and think they can do better.

And frankly many fanfics have lacked imagination. If there's a character that the fan fic writer deems boring, they simply respond by killing said character off or putting the character through torture. A fanfic writer with imagination would try to make the character more appealing while again keeping said character close to the canon.

Antiyonder

I stopped reading fanfiction ages ago for two reasons.

1. I want to be a professional, and for similar reasons that Greg and other professionals don't read fanfiction, it's to protect myself legally.

2. I just find that in most fanfic, there was a subconscious desire in the writer to make the characters and the universe less interesting.

I blogged about this subject once, and got this response that I think hits the nail on the head:

[ITALIC]"I think the problem here is that many fans are looking to their favorite shows or books for wish fulfillment rather then drama. People want to escape to a fictional world where they can vicariously live out there fantasies via their favourite hero.

Escapism is of course perfectly healthy in moderation but left to grow unchecked it neuters the drama and becomes mere wish fulfillment.

Wish fulfillment requires that life be easy for the protagonist, it requires that everyone loves them and that they achieve all their goals with a minimum of effort.

Drama on the other hand demands that our hero suffer for their cause, it requires that they struggle and sometimes even die in the attempt.

And there's a reason why I used the word hero for the last paragraph instead of protagonist. I can't think of a single real world hero who didn't suffer, who wasn't spat upon by his peers, who didn't sacrifice."[/ITALIC]

I don't want to read wish fulfillment. I want to read drama.

Here's my blog entry on this subject:

http://gregxb.blogspot.com/2010/01/can-fans-love-too-much.html

Of course, many fanfiction authors don't understand the basic rules of storytelling, and rely on deus ex machina. Many of them ignore he characters and force them to serve the plot. Actually, reading a lot of fanfiction has been a good lesson in what not to do.

While I'll always be grateful to fanfiction for teaching me how to write, now I am writing original works that I hope to one day make money off of.

I've got a degree in screenwriting, and I intend to make the most of it.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

I read fanfics that stays in tune with the characters, but I'm not afraid reading fanfics that are different from non-canon to any shows. They're called fanfics for a reason and Fanfiction. Net was made to express writers' imginations.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Then I suppose nows a good as time as any. A pretty regular criticism I see popping up in the room is towards fanfics. To repeat what a fellow Toon Zoner said in regards to fanfiction (when praising Rhapsody) is that most authors doesn't really appreciate the franchise they claim to be fans of (hence fanfics that only resemble the franchise in name only). Some fanfics, however, can be just as a compeling as the canon.

Whether it's Gargoyles or just about any series, which fanfics do you recommend and why? Here's a list of some I linked on Toon Zone:

1. Avatar The Last Airbender "Distorted Reality" (Still is being done): A role reversial of sorts. After failing to save the world from the Fire Nation, Aang is sent into a world which has to deal with the conquering Water Empire, with his allies Zuko (who lacks his scar and Firebending abilities) and Azula (Who hopes to become a better Firebender). Now for the early portions of the fanfic, a good deal of chapters are an altered form of the episodes seen on ATLA, but later stories will be devoid of altered episodes, while others will play with your expectations.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3952155/1/Distorted_Reality

2. Detective Conan/Case Closed "The Mystery of Conan Edogawa" (Completed): Basic aspect of the series which hasn't changed is Ran being in the dark that her childhood friend is her adopted little brother. Naturally, many fanfics will have her discovering the identity, and tend to handle it in a simple matter. Either she forgives Conan/Shinichi while being annoy, or she'll hate him for a portion of the story. This story manages to convey that she is reasonably angry, while having a valid sensible reason to forgive him.

Plus much like how certain aspects of the manga/anime tend to reference various detective characters/stories, this one touches upon how Conan's dilemma is similar to Sherlock Holmes supposed death in The Final Problem and Empty House story.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4553963/..._Conan_Edogawa

3. Kim Possible "Tanks For the Memories": The problems with most Gargoyles fanfiction tends to be the opposite for Kim Possible. This show is simply two friends (later lovers) who fight crime and attend school. The last thing I think of interms of Kim Possible is Ron dying in a horrific accident, while Kim is pregnant with Josh Mankey's baby (Not a specific story I'm refering to, but an example of how most fanfics don't even resemble the material). Even then, it is possible to go far from the canon while still giving the story resemblance to said canon.

This fanfic aside from the occasional T Rated dialogue could actually pass an episode of the show. The story is that Ron feels less than masculine as Kim tends to be the one to drive them around (her car as opposed to Ron's scooter). Things change for Ron as he gets his own set of wheels.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3361374/...r_the_Memories

4. Avatar The Last Airbender "Twenty Truths About Mai and Katara": Does a story that hasn't been told constantly. And while there are some grammer errors, the story is still readable.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4419976/...Mai_and_Katara


So, what are some decent fanfics the rest of you read?

Antiyonder

And once again, thia Chat Room is slow...
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Super-Ninja, the only villain that the Amoeba Boys would be embarrassed to be seen with.
Algernon

How do you get the Applause line of Gargoyles? The electric tiki Goliath is awsome expensive the. Is hard for me to really put forth a good plot scenario for Illuminati since I have researched the historical Illuminati I kind of wonder if it doesnt give me a hubris when it comes to the Gargoyles universe. I think the last post about control is on point. It is also clear like like the historical Illuminati their playing both sides. What the overall plan for the Stone of Destiny or Arthur is don't know. I do know that just like Xanatos was the hand behind the scenes Illuminati is the one behind all the Gargoyles present and future troubles. Whether is the Quarrymen , Xanatos, or even Thailog it would seem Illuminat pulls the strings even where there is no puppet.
Andres - [escodr3s at yahoo dot com]
rres

That deepest darkest blue that a couple folks keep using (darker than the blue used by Todd)... it's unreadable for me against the black background. And yes, I *am* too lazy to highlight the text on the page.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Demonskrye > Yeah, that makes sense, and I totally agree about the "How many fans" thing, especially for a series this old and somewhat forgotten. I think I might be a bit too hopeful about it, but at least I'm the only one who'll get punished for being too anxious about it.
lvl_27 Cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

<Demonskrye & Antiyonder> I got your point. Appericate it, but don't really care since I only brought it up from a question for my fic.

<Ian> Monsters of New York? Yeah, I know that blog, but I don't read from it. I perfer reading everything on Fanfiction. Net. By the way, you might want to fix the link to your name, because when I click it, it doesn't work.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Whoops, given the topic, I should be shot for nearly forgetting this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN2Bx_LK2io

There we go.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

BOOM!> Let me clarify. I don't think BOOM! is going to keep it a secret until the last possible minute if they do get the license. But I think they probably have the good business sense to stay mum about it until they have a deal worked out if they are indeed pursuing the license. There's just very little benefit to discussing it publicly before anything is in writing. If BOOM! says they're going to get the Gargoyles license and then the deal falls through for some reason, it looks bad for them. Or if they say early on that they're really interested in the license, Disney could use it as a reason to jack up the price. Or an early announcement could scare of potential competition. If other publishers think BOOM! has the license secured before they do, they may not bother going after it themselves, which means Disney only has one offer on the table. That could sour their relationship with Disney.

If something does happen, I'm sure they'll announce it. But until then, it's in their best interests to keep quiet.

I don't really see the point in wanting to know the exact numbers for things like how many people have contacted BOOM!. The fact is, we're probably never going to be in a place where we couldn't use more people talking up the property. A lot more. It's not like there's any number where we can say "Oh good, x fans have contacted BOOM!, so we've done our part." More people is always going to be better and there's not going to be much we could do with that exact number even if we did have it.

Illuminati> I'm with the theory that what they really want is control. From what little they know, they already seem to be extremely involved in the running of the world and it's far easer to be the people dictating policy from the shadows without anyone being aware that you even exist than it is to be a more open potentate who can be held accountable for your actions or even made a target. Gargoyles are emerging as a force with their own agenda, potentially hard for the Illuminati to influence. So I think what they're most likely doing - aside from telling their members what they want to hear - is trying to devise a way to keep the gargoyles from interfering with their plans, whatever they may be.

I have yet to see any world power that only had ne goal. So I'd find the Illuminati pretty unrealistic if their entire agenda could be boiled down to one single goal.

Demonskrye - [<---Batman and Limitations at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Patrick> Point taken.

NinjaSheik> It's just theory I had.

But like I stated earlier, with Gargoyles it's best to approach a topic without thinking of the cliches you've seen in other stories. Even then the cliches will often contain a twist.

Future Tense for example would seem like the usual "all of the bad things experienced were just a dream" when it truth it foreshadows many upcoming stories (some of which have come to pass).

As for the Illuuminati, I don't really see the difference between a soceity and team. Either way, Thailog is working with other people.

Best I can describe it is that a team is a smaller group of people who interact with each other, whereas a society is a larger group of people who don't necessarily see each other (Evidence of this is that Fiona and John Castaway being unaware of a gargoyle being a member).

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Harvester of Eyes> Yes, it's finally been settled. We now know who the lamest villain ever is.

I hear G1 Megatron laughs at him.

I hear Rita Repulsa and Lord Zedd leave flaming bags of Goldar poop on his lawn.

I hear Shredder and Krang prank call him.

Every Captain Planet villain just got a bit more self esteem.

THAT is how lame the Super Ninja is.

"I HATE YOU, CHUCK NORRIS! I HATE YOU, HATE YOU, HATE YOU!! THAT'S WHY I PRINTED UP THIS HUGE PICTURE OF YOU! HATE YOU!!!!!! Marry me?"

Linkara rocks!

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

@Patrick: I agree with you in theory: I'd rather she be a bit older, but the setting of the story--the year 2009--is pretty much set in stone, and while having Tachi be in battle isn't essential, it's the easiest way to get from point A to B within the confines of the story I have in mind. Unless something else occurs to me, it's what I'm going with.

Context: Angela is Clan Leader in Goliath's absence (Brooklyn has aged himself out of the role, an idea I've stolen from our own Mr. Bishansky's "Rhapsody"--thanks Greg!) and while she's done a pretty good job of getting over her fears about the position, they come back in full force when the clan's attempts to stop a mob war go awry.

Although aware that it's outside the norm (or so we not-illogically assume), Tachi manages to convince Angela to permit her to join the clan in their outing, using Nashville as an example—after all, if he's been having adventures since birth, why can't she? Although Angela doesn't quite agree, she, taking in mind her own unusual upbringing, allows herself to be convinced that including her won't cause major trouble. She's wrong, of course.

More generally, I take it, then, that this is a particular area that Greg has not elaborated upon? Do we know of any age-related cultural milestones--say, a equivalent to a bar mitzvah--in the gargoyle world?

@NinjaSheik: I do have a FF.Net account--"Monsters of NY"--but I use it mostly to reprint stories I've already added to my Gargoyles/TMNT blog in a more readable form. None of the finished or in-progress stories really feature the Gargoyles--Macbeth makes an extended cameo in "Lies", my first story; and the story I'm working on right now, "Electric Boogaloo" focuses mostly on the NYPD--and while I have plans for them, stories focusing specifically on the Manhattan clan won't be appearing for at least three months, and the particular story which may or may not involve Tachi will take even more. Still, if you're interested, check out the account or click on my name to go to my blog.

Ian Perez - [doknowbutchie at gmail dot com]

Ah, the Superninja. Finally, someone Cobra Commander can look down on. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes
""Fuck it. Let's go bowling." -Walter ("The Big Lebowski")

Off topic but... I had to link this:

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/22413-chuck-norris-karate-kommandos-1

I'm dying here!

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

<Todd> All right, I understand.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

So let's be generous and say that gargoyle hatchlings mature at twice the rate of humans, so one that's the biological equivalent of 5 1/2 is 11 calendar years old and is mentally equivalent to an 11 year old human. Do you think any police officer in his or her right mind wants an 11 year old kid as a partner?
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

NINJA SHEIK - Sorry, but you'll have to wait until it gets published.
Todd Jensen

Again, sorry for the double post.

<Todd> Can you send me a copy of that report? I would love to read it.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

MATT - Thanks. I hope that you will be able to read it someday.
Todd Jensen

<Greg> It's just theory I had.

As for the Illuuminati, I don't really see the difference between a soceity and team. Either way, Thailog is working with other people.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

NinjaSheik> So, let me get this straight.

You think the Illuminati Society is trying to take over the world with an army of gargoyles?

You think the Illuminati Society is trying to take over the world with an army that they can't use twenty-four hours a day?

You think the Illuminati have the collective brainpower of a burlap sack?

Does anyone remember that time Megatron built that giant purple griffin (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Giant_Purple_Griffin) or when Cobra Commander lured GI Joe to his amazon fun house?

<<But you know, I wonder why Thailog joined the Illuminati in the first place? I thought he said that teamwork was overrated. Pssh, what a jerk.>>

The Illuminati isn't a team, it's a secret society. An organization. The Pack is a team.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

Ninja> I think what the Illuminati really wants is control. They don't want to rule the world, just control it. They don't want to rule or destroy or hide the gargoyles, just control them. Bluestone, Xanatos, Castaway and Thailog are all very useful members in controlling the gargoyles.

HofEyes> When did Puck say "Like I said" in Future Tense? He did say "WAKE UP!" to Goliath at the end, but I don't recall him saying "Like I said" before that.

Todd Jensen> Sorry to hear about the anthology. I hope your essay gets printed somewhere someday because I'm sure it is an interesting read.

Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

<Harvester of Eyes> Thanks for agreeing with me.

But you know, I wonder why Thailog joined the Illuminati in the first place? I thought he said that teamwork was overrated. Pssh, what a jerk.

He clearly shows to have his own agenda, teaming with Sevarius took take DNA samples from the Manhattan clan. He does think Sevarius is a cowardly man with no moral fiber.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Ninjashiek: <These people should just stick to one goal.> Yeah, we're still not sure what their goals, but whatever those goals are, they should eliminate all goals except one. Whatever that goal is.

<They can't want the destruction of gargoyles if Thailog is a member, being a clone or not.> Um, Thailog IS a clone. No real argument there.

Harvester of Eyes
""Fuck it. Let's go bowling." -Walter ("The Big Lebowski")

Sorry for the double post.

<Harvester of Eyes>

My thoughts exactly. I just wanted to give this Chat Room a little move. Been kinda boring for the last two ideas. Sheesh...What kind of soceity is the Illuminati is, anyway?

One wants to destroy the gargoyles, one wants another thing, and blah blah blah!

These people should just stick to one goal. I bet Castaway doesn't even know that Thailog is a member. But one thing they sure of is that want the gargoyles for something.

They sent Matt to capture Goliath and even though season 3 was non-canon, the Illuminati studied the gargoyles.

They can't want the destruction of gargoyles if Thailog is a member, being a clone or not. The answer I came up with is that are trying to rule the world by using the gargoyles.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Thanks for the info, Lvl. Let us know when more news come up?

But just in case this whole BOOM! thing doesn't work, any other comics industry might want to license Gargoyles do you guys know of?

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Ninjashiek: To be honest, we don't really know what the Society's goals are. In issue #3, Hacker seemed to be telling each respective person (Bluestone, Xanatos, and Castaway) what he thought they should hear.

And also, remember that the Illuminati have a gargoyle as a member.

Harvester of Eyes
"Like I said... WAKE UP." -Puck ("Future Tense")

SUPERMORFF - Thanks.
Todd Jensen

NinjaSheik > Well, for one thing, I managed to get a guy that BOOM! retweeted to start bugging him about the comic. Whether he's a notable guy or not remains to be seen, I think they retweet any positive feedback, but he's gonna get his friends and co-workers in on it as well, and who knows how big that is. Still, there's some love out there, even outside of the dedicated ones here. People like to revisit old shows, so I think if Gargoyles poked its head back it with a fair bit of marketing, there'd be a decent impact. Plus, BOOM! is a pretty notable studio with a fair customer base. I think it's safe to say that the people that grab their comics might investigate if a Garg comic hit the shelves. Who knows. Baby steps.

Demonskrye > Hmm, that's somewhat irritating considering if the actually do pick it up, they know we'd want to be in on it. They could at least give us a heads up. Getting the series going again would put anyone here in a euphoric tantrum. Of course, that's not how it will work if it does happen, but I think they should tell us if it does.

On a side note, I didn't know this comment room had that pic of Hudson as an avatar! Sheesh!

lvl_27 Cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

Yes, I understand that, but how many fans?

People only sell merchandise that will sell highly. Think about, the Gargoyles DVDs stopped selling because only a few of the copies were brought. How is this any difference?

There's no telling if anyone would care about Gargoyles anymore. Only the passionate fans care for that, but how many people are like that?

I have no idea. Nobody in my school is like, that's for sure...

I really hope Disney will approve...More importantly, I hope Greg Weisman doesn't give up either.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

BOOM!> I wouldn't really expect any news from BOOM!regarding Gargoyles for a while now. Even if they had already decided to pursue the license, they would have to work out a deal with Disney first and they probably aren't going to make any kind of public statement until they actually have something in writing to report on.

All that's happening now is that fans are writing to BOOM! via their contact page or Twitter and saying that they thing BOOM! should do a Gargoyles series.

Demonskrye - [<---Batman and Limitations at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Yeah, well, I watch A LOT of TV shows.

Anyway, any news from BOOM!? For a while now, I look at Twitter News for Gargoyles and I saw this;

I think Gargoyles would make fantastic addition to BOOM! Studios' lineup! It still has a very dedicated fanbase and creator. @boomstudios
7:14 PM May 18th via web

This means what exactly?

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

NinjaSheik> Have to provide some disagreement again NinjaSheik. The fact is that like many things in the Gargoyles Universe, morality isn't something than can be summed up in a Black and White label.

Sure we have characters that commit criminal acts or doing things perceived as bad (cause as of 1997, hunting a gargoyle can't be classified as a crime), but I doubt that any villain/antagonist in the Garg Universe see themselves as evil. In Jackal and Hyena's case, they are simply nuts.

To better understand the show, it's best not to look at it as a typical cartoon. Certain traits I'm refering to:

1. A character can't accurate be sterotyped as they contain traits you'd never expect.

2. Being on the same side doesn't guarantee friendship.

3. Villains don't see themselves as evil.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Good point, Antiyonder, Greg.

Sheesh...Well, I'm looking forward to seeing this. I wonder why the Director hates the Illuminati so much. The Illuminati is a secret organizaton trying to take over the world, said to be controlling the worlds' leaders.

Castaway and Hacker said that the Illuminati aims for the destruction of gargoyles.

But you know, they seem so wasteful. If I was evil, I'll try to bulid my own gargoyles army to take over the world.

Which is why I'm going to use that idea in my Brooklyn and Katana story.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

NinjaSheik> <<Great, here we go again...What happened to "fight on the sides of angels"? >>

You are being entirely too judgmental. Keep in mind that Hunter and her team have a boss (the Director). The Director also answers to people. We don't know the circumstances behind this mission. Hell, it might be entirely justified. Or not.

Also keep in mind that the carrot for the Redemption Squad is redemption. The stick is prison id they don't cooperate.

<<But "would have"? That means Brooklyn and the others are okay. Thank the Dragon...>>

What do you think "would have" means?

<<Could it be possible that...? Hmmm...The Illuminati have been around since ancient times, it wouldn't be surprising if someone from 994 told them what happened or any other members from the Illuminati from any other time Brooklyn traveled to told the head-hanchos.>>

The Illuminati have been around since about a century after the fall of Camelot. Check the GargWiki's timeline.

As for Brother Valmont, I believe he is Duval, or rather one of the identities Duval has used through the centuries, but we have no evidence for that.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

NinjaSheik> Great, here we go again...What happened to "fight on the sides of angels"?

Fighting on the sides of angels doesn't mean that they are all going to be friends.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

<"One of the missions they would have been sent on by the Director would be to take down the gargoyles. And they would have succeeded.">

Great, here we go again...What happened to "fight on the sides of angels"?

But "would have"? That means Brooklyn and the others are okay. Thank the Dragon...

Hey, I've been meaning to ask this for a while now, but since the Chat Room's been talk about the Loch Ness sea monster, I wouldn't find the right time to bring it up.

I look over at the Gargwiki and read Brooklyn's TimeDancer adventures again. It is true that Duval guy had a connection to that Brother Valmont guy, right?

They do look simliar...And according to one of the Ask Greg questions, the Illuminati knows a little of Brooklyn's TimeDancer adventures. It didn't make sense until I read that article of Duval and Brother Valmont.

Could it be possible that...? Hmmm...The Illuminati have been around since ancient times, it wouldn't be surprising if someone from 994 told them what happened or any other members from the Illuminati from any other time Brooklyn traveled to told the head-hanchos.

Thanks for the teaser, Greg. Got anymore for me?

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Patrick> Considering that gargoyle hatchlings can walk much easier than a human infant, the idea of a 5 1/2 Gargoyle isn't all that implausible. As others have often said, it's best not to think of Gargoyles as "humans who have wings.".

And in addition to Greg B's comment, The Gargoyles have been listed in the FAQs as one of the many antagonists of Bad Guys.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Greg said at the 1998 Gathering, and I have this on tape, so I double checked...

"One of the missions they would have been sent on by the Director would be to take down the gargoyles. And they would have succeeded."

... How's that for a teaser? ;)

Sorry, NinjaSheik. Life can't be too easy for these characters.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

<Todd> That's too bad. You mind sending a copy of that report to me? I would love to read it.

<Andres> I hope the Manhattan Clan will meet the Redemption Squad soon. And I hope they meet on good terms. It'd be nice for Katana to met another Japanese gargoyle and I hope "Hunter" will apologize for blowing up the clock tower and revealed the clan to everyone in New York!

<Ian> You're writing a story?! Sweet! Can I read it? You have a FF. Net account?

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Andres> The Kenner line is the only Gargoyles action figure line, but there is other merchandise, like the Applause figures, the fast food premiums, and various other stuff.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking about the DVDs. I would recommend watching the series in order.

You can get a sense of what would have happened (and hopefully still will, if the license for the comic gets picked up) after the end of the Clan Building arc by looking at Ask Greg and GargWiki. I believe Thailog was going to be the primary villain for "season three," but other foes of the clan certainly would have shown up. The Manhattan Clan would have met the Redemption Squad at some point, though I don't think we know the exact nature of that encounter.

Demonskrye - [<---Batman and Limitations at The Ink and Pixel Club]

After reading the comic a few times it feels like everything was wrapped up kind of neatly but hurried I think. Thing I wonder about is it seems that villain wise the plotline goes away from Xanatos/ Macbeth/ Demona as the main villains. Does this make Thailog the main villain or do new villains appear? Do the Gargoyles ever face off with the Redemption Squad?
Andres - [dresedescorly at live dot com]
Andres

If you are familiar with the series what set of the DVD first or second season do you recomend watching?
Andres - [dresedescorly at live dot com]
Andres

Does any one know if besides the Bust of Goliath if the Kenner line is the only Gargoyle toy or action figures out there?
Andres - [dresedescorly at live dot com]
Andres

Todd> That's a real shame, but at least it sounds like the article went down well and there might be another home for it. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed!
Supermorff

just finished reading the 1st comic book.

Was a good read, am looking forward to 2nd volume :)

Kiyona

Has anyone read the Comic Book Resources article currently linked at the top of the Gargoyles News Twitter Feed? There's a slight problem with the article, and it's not a one-time misprint.

Despite having an image of the issue #1 cover in the article with the contributors last names on it, CBR seems to think someone involved with the project is named Greg Gruler. They call him that three times. Yeesh.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

Gargoyle or not, 5 1/2 strikes me as too young to be useful in crime fighting.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

So I've checked the entry for "Gargoyles" in the wiki, but I couldn't find an answer: has it ever been established when in their life-cycle the gargoyle young are first allowed to take part in the clan's outings? Or to put it in another way: what age, if any, would Tachi need to be before she's allowed to go out and fight crime with the clan? A story I'm planning would have her go on her first such outing in 2009 (making her biologically 5.5), and I'm wondering if it's at all plausible.
Ian Perez - [doknowbutchie at gmail dot com]

A bit of bad news. Some time ago, I mentioned here that I was invited to send in an article on "Gargoyles" for an anthology about the depiction of the Middle Ages on television; I wrote one (an overview, focusing on the series' medieval aspects, such as the flashbacks to 10th century Scotland and the roles of Macbeth and King Arthur) and sent it in. This morning, I received an e-mail from the man in the head of the project, informing me that the anthology has been (for now) called off because it didn't receive enough submissions.

He also told me that my article had been well-received, and suggested another place that I could send it to (commenting that "["Gargoyles"] deserves to be better known by medievalists"). I wonder whether I could revise the article for that other publication to include the medieval elements in the comics as well (such as the Stone of Destiny's backstory, the further scenes involving Arthur - such as his consulting Malory - and Brooklyn's Timedancing visit to the Battle of Rathveramoen).

I hope that this won't disappoint too much anyone here who'd been looking forward to it.

Todd Jensen

The Chat Room is soooo booooring....
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

DEMONSKRYE - St. Columba lived in the latter half of the 6th century, four hundred years before the alliance between the humans and gargoyles of Castle Wyvern (in his day, most of what we now call Scotland was the home of the Picts; the Scots were Irish colonists in the southwest who would gradually spread out into Scotland over the next three hundred years and eventually take it over in the mid-9th century), while a few decades after King Arthur's reign. I don't know how that affects your speculation on his role in gargoyle history, though.

While we don't know yet how much of Shari's tales are true, whenever their content can be checked against the on-stage events in the Gargoyles Universe (the Coldtrio's story, Arthur drawing Excalibur from the Stone of Destiny, with King Pelles present, Macbeth participating in the 1950 theft of the Stone of Destiny), it turns out to be correct. Even her apparent inconsistency about how the Stone of Destiny got from Egypt to Ireland (one version having it entrusted to Gathelus and Scota, the other version having the Israelites keep it until Jeremiah brings it to Ireland some centuries later) turns out to be not such a big nit after all, after the revelation at the end of "Rock of Ages" of the Stone's true nature.

One detail in Shari's stories (though in the art, not the text) that I hope is true in the Gargoyles Universe is the part about Macbeth fighting alongside his fellow Scots at Bannockburn. It's a great touch, giving us a hint at what he was doing over the nine centuries between his defeat by Canmore and his cropping up in modern-day New York - even more important, it shows (alongside his role in the 1950 Stone of Destiny caper) that he'd kept his love for and loyalty to Scotland alive during time, that his life had other things in it than an obsessive pursuit of Demona. (Which contrasts with Demona herself - who, just three years after the fall of Castle Wyvern, is already so filled with hatred that when some of her fellow gargoyles are killed, she places revenge on the people who massacred them over giving those gargoyles a decent funeral.)

Todd Jensen

Columba gave the Loch Ness Monster 3.50 and all was good.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Landon and Patrick> Thanks for clearing that up.

Todd> I was partly going off the theory that the amount of truth in Shari's tales is pretty debatable, even by her known admission. Since Greg mentioned St. Columba's date of birth in This Day in Gargoyles Universe history, it seems fair to assume that he was a real person in that world. And unless Shari is completely off the mark, he probably had something to do with the Loch Ness monster.

I hadn't checked yet to see if the dates of Columba's life lined up with the time period when humans were aware of the Loch Ness clan or not.

Demonskrye - [<---Batman and Limitations at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Sorry for the double post, but:

We also know from "Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers" that the gargoyle clan at Loch Ness was apparently public knowledge during Prince Malcolm's youth in the 960's, so there may well have been peaceful relations between humans and gargoyles at the loch in the early days of Scotland - and St. Columba (a man of great spiritual authority in Scotland) might have had a part in it. Obviously, though, the Loch Ness gargoyles went into hiding afterwards, probably during the anti-gargoyle persecutions that began in Constantine's reign. (Since Demona believed by 1020 that her clan were the only gargoyles left in Scotland, the Loch Ness gargoyles had probably secluded themselves from the outside world by then, to escape the fates of other clans. The murky waters of Loch Ness would have done a fine job of hiding them from human eyes.)

Todd Jensen

DEMONSKRYE - Interesting theory about St. Columba. Shari's recounting of the story about him in "Rock and Roll" shows a more conventional interpretation of the event; on the other hand, it's just one panel and we didn't see what came immediately before or afterwards. It does fit the way in which "Gargoyles" rewrote Macbeth's story to revolve around the last alliance between humans and gargoyles in Scotland, and how it shattered (and if Greg Weisman ever gets to write the "Pendragon" spin-off, we'll probably see some of that in flashbacks to Arthur's reign about relations between Arthur and the gargoyles in Britain during the early 6th century).

Certainly, if St. Columba did tame a 6th century Loch Ness monster in the more traditional sense, the effects lasted all the way down to the present-day, upon its descendants - see how Nessie responded to Angela. (Of course, the Loch Ness monsters' friendship with the local Loch Ness clan would have probably helped there, as well.)

Todd Jensen

Wikipedia also contains entries for a Steve Perry, who wrote on "Gargoyles", and a Stephen Perry, who wrote for "Thundercats" and is the subject of the recent news articles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_%28author%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Perry_%28writer%29

Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

That's so sad...Poor Steve Perry.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Demonskrye - I don't know if you saw my post last week, but this is an article by Steve Bissette, who knows the missing author: http://srbissette.com/?p=9077 That article contradicts the resume on the Gargoyles writer's own webpage: http://home.comcast.net/~perry1966/tvcomics.html

They aren't the same person.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Sadly, the information that is trickling out regarding Steve Perry's disappearance are not getting any better. There are some reports that more body parts have been found. Perry's roommates have been arrested on unrelated charges and are likely being questioned about Perry. There is still no confirmation that the body parts belong to Perry, but as one website I saw put it, it seems like the best possible scenario now is that Perry - who was quite ill - died of natural causes and his body was dismembered for some unknown reason afterwards. (I don't know that it's very likely, but it would be far less horrible than the alternative.)

I haven't read anything that clarifies whether this Steve Perry was the one who was a writer on Gargoyles or not, but these are very sad and disturbing events regardless of who the victim might be.

Demonskrye - [<---Batman and Limitations at The Ink and Pixel Club]

I enjoyed Vice President Nostalgia Chick myself. Other favorite moments include:

- Cinema Snob believing that The Critic isn't insane, only to discover that he did purchase 20 tons of dynamite and his intents with it.
- Nostalgia Critic VS Dr. Insano: While not as long as The Critic's fight with the AVGN (Last years Brawl) is made enjoyable due to the Chick continuing her murder attempt, the use of the Batman Returns boss music and the Critic quoting Raul Julia's M Bison.
- The failed attempt at reviving Santa Christ, and the Chick later questioning his resurrection.
- Good use of Board James.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

CBR has an in-depth article on Mecha-Nation: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=26384 Greg is interviewed on the story, the origin, and what it's like to actually own the property for once. They say #1 will be out next month.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Here's the statue for $149.99 - the best price I can find to date. This site also confirms the Oct 2010 timeframe.
http://www.comicbooknation.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2684

Anthony Tini

My wandering mind was thinking about St. Columba today. I came upon the idea that maybe what Columba did in the Gargoyles universe was not so much "tame" the Loch Ness monster (or a Loch Ness monster, more accurately) as broker some kind of arrangement between the Loch Ness clan and the local humans that ensured the safety of humans, gargoyles, and monsters alike.
Demonskrye - [<---AdViews Archive at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Greg B: I think my favorite parts were the Nostalgia Chick's moments as Vice President, especially the tea scene. XD

WOAH. I had no idea that was all real. And they got the real Molossia and the real president! Doug is just such a genius, just wow.

Daniel
"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)

Greg B> Thanks for the links.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Here's the rest of it:

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/22074-kickassia-part-04-the-beginning-of-the-end
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/22132-kickassia-part-05-the-fall-of-the-risen
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/22200-kickassia-part-06-all-the-really-bad-shit-happens

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

Greg B> Pretty funny so far. Only managed to watch the first 3 parts so far.


*SPOILER*



All of them running away from the general's gun cracked me up.

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

Jurgan> That's why the "carrot" form of exponents are hard to work with for order of operations. Normally, the position of the factorial mark indicates where it affects things; a full-size mark after an exponential expression means to take the factorial of the entire term while a small superscript mark indicates that only the exponential power is the factorial. Still, the standard thinking (as I understand it) is that a factorial, being a postfix unary operator, operates on a single number rather than multiple numbers by default without parentheses. Basically, you would determine a factorial in an expression prior to the completion of any exponents or roots, provided it is not counter-indicated by parentheses or position. Thus, the more proper result is actually 2^6 = 64.

Greg B> I was considering posting those myself in a few locations around the net. Why'd you only go with the first half, though?

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

So, remember that "Gargoyles" review the Nostalgia Critic did last year? Well, he made a little independent film starring himself, and several other online critics connected to Channel Awesome as their second year anniversary.

It is called Kickassia, and in it, the Nostalgia Critic and his cohorts invade the nation of Molossia, a tiny nation barely an acre across, located near Reno, Nevada.

It is very funny. Here are the first three parts.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/21882-kickassia-part-01
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/21951-kickassia-part-02-triumph-and-treacle
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/22008-kickassia-part-03-inglorious-glory

But, the biggest jaw dropping moment, for me, is that the Republic of Molossia is real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Molossia

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

"Followed by 3^2. Hey Jurgan, you didn't actually mean eight factorial, did you? Heh; math humor."

I thought of that, actually. My question is, does 2^3! mean 8! or 2^6 I'm not sure where factorials fall in the order of operations.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Well, I guess I have my answer, it's official - and now we have a rough date for the statue. October 2010. Give me a chance to save some $$$ for it.
Wingless

Cute statue. Got one for Brooklyn?
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

http://www.urban-collector.com/classic-heroes-gargoyles-goliath-statue-may101628.html
Anthony Tini

Ten
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Followed by 3^2. Hey Jurgan, you didn't actually mean eight factorial, did you? Heh; math humor.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

2^3!
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

7th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

6! What's up? :)
lvl_27 Cubone
Does the sky need a name? Does the river?

Johnny number 5 is here!

Or would be if my name was Johnny. :P

KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.

4th!
BrooksBabe

(3rd)Third!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]

Second!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

FIRST!!!!!
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'