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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending July 12, 2010

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Bishansky even contributed a summary of the movie to GargWiki (including a mention that it never actually uses the line "Play it again, Sam").

ALGERNON - I've read one theory that part of the reason for Macbeth developing a reputation for consorting with witches was his backing Celtic Christianity against the Roman Christianity that won out in Scotland under Canmore.

Todd Jensen

PURPLEGOLDFISH> Greatest movie ever made, everyone should see it at least once.
Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

Greg-thanks
Purplegoldfish

GREG B> While it's true the Catholic Church didn't have much influnce in medival Scotland until Malcolm III time, the Scots had been practicing their own homegrown version of Christianty well before that. At least since St. Columba's time...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Medieval_Scotland#Celtic_church

But yeah this is all pretty beside the point, I'm happy to just assume Mac was using whatever the Gealic/Latin word for "scary-ass monster" is.

Algernon

Until we start getting new "Gargoyles" stories (which won't be for a while, obviously), nitpicking may be one of the few ways to get a conversation going. One reason why there've been so many long gaps between posts here (often over twenty-four hours) is that we're running low on things to discuss.
Todd Jensen

ALGERNON> I don't know how Christian Macbeth was. I know he made a trip to Rome. But the Roman Catholic Church didn't become prominent in Scotland until Malcolm III married his second wife, Margaret.

PAUL> Are you nitpicking again? It seems that every time you post, it's to go on a tirade about another nit you found. I'm not telling you not to post. But, it gets beyond tiring.

And like Algernon said, if you're going to nitpick. Go all the way and nitpick them speaking English at all.

Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

PAUL> Well Mac was a Christian and pretty well read, so no matter what exact term he was probably familiar with the concept of devils, evil spirits or whatever you want to call them.
Algernon

True, but "demon" comes from the Latin word "daemon", and the Greek word "daimon." Gaelic isn't a Romance language, so it seems unlikely that the Gaelic word for demon would be derived from those words.

Granted, Macbeth probably knew Latin, as Finella and Kenneth III did. Nevertheless, I don't think that the ancient Romans or Greeks ever used the words "daemon" or "daimon" in comparison to someone's fighting ability, the way Macbeth did.

Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

PAUL> Well keep in mind Mac and most of the other Scots in the flashbacks were probably speaking some form of Gaelic, which was simply translated into English for the sake of a 20th century American audiance.
Algernon

I'm curious about some of the anachronisms in Gargoyles. I've read that Macbeth's use of the word "bedlam" in City of Stone, part 3 was anachronistic, but nobody seemed to notice or care that his use of the word "demon" in the same episode was also anachronistic: "Demon" didn't become an English word until sometime between 1350 and 1400. And the phrase "fight like a demon" is probably even newer than that.
Paul - [nampahcfluap at yahoo dot com]

Greg will be previewing his Green Arrow short on Saturday 7/24 at 3:00pm: http://sched.comic-con.org/event/946affb2feb801a2fb72d2494b062858
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Michaela> I can see Jennifer Anderson's post; it's the post she's reacting to that appears to be gone.

I'm with Patrick. I don't see how a three year old post which is now deleted, making it impossible for anyone who didn't see it to know exactly what is being discussed, is relevant to SLG now and whether they should get the license back. I have my issues with how SLG has gone about things, but keep in mind that publishers weren't exactly lining up to get the rights to produce Gargoyles comics and I don't get the impression that they are now either. SLG was the publisher who took a chance on Gargoyles and so far the only publisher who has shown any interest in doing post=TV series comics. While there are other publishers who I think could do a good job with the property and what information we have suggests that SLG is not actively pursuing the license right now, I'm not willing to burn that bridge just yet,

Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Purplegoldfish> Casablanca.
Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

Woah haven't commented here in awhile, not much to say I guess. I just watched the last year's radio play on youtube. Fun. I do have a question though. At the risk of sounding like a complete moron, what movie is Peter referring to at the end? I'm as dumbfounded as Goliath lol. It's driving me nuts...
Purplegoldfish

Oh yeah,

[SPOILER] 5. Since they clearly are on ground rather than a prison ship, the Earthbenders shouldn't have any trouble with the Fire Nation soldiers. [/SPOILER]

Antiyonder

Ok, let's discuss The Last Airbender movie.

I don't have a burning hatred for it, and might get it on DVD if I can get a good price for it. But the cartoon is better. As for the complaints I have:

[SPOILER] 1. Not much light moments to balance out the serious moments.
2. Minor one, but annoying. Getting the name pronouncings wrong.
3. Firebenders having to bring fire with them. By giving them the ability to create fire, the cartoon made it all the more plausible that they could have an edge over the other nations. I mean if facing an army of Waterbenders, having a limited amount of fire is a liability.
4. Aside from a brief mention on why Zuko got his scar, we barely see him doing anything that makes him a noble antagonist. In Book One we got:

- The Return: Zuko agrees to leave The Water Tribe alone if Aang surrenders, to which he honors his agreement, even when Aang escapes.

- The Spirit World: He stops his hunt for Aang to save Iroh from some Earth Kingdom Soldiers.

- The Storm: He comes to his senses to help his crew.

- The Siege of The North Part 2: Offers his hand to save Zhao from death.

But we don't see much or any of that for that matter in the movie. [/SPOILER]

Antiyonder

Lack of other ideas?
mage_cat - [mage_cat14 at yahoo dot com]

Why are we recycling old drama from 2007? This is not very relevant to the current state of SLG and the "Gargoyles" comic.
Patrick

Ah, the Jen mentioned is Jennifer de Guzman, editor in chief of SLG.
Michaela

It's from early 2007, maybe it has changed.

Jennifer reacts to the (now deleted) Livejournal posts of someone named Jen, an employee of SLG, something else must have happened some time before. Some posters state that they are never going to buy another SLG post. Another poster asks if anybody has written SLG to point out how unprofessional one of there employees is.
Jennifer's response is:
"Who do you write? Her? Dan? I think those are the only two actual employees there... they fired everyone else and don't ever pay their artists on time (and then lie to them that they did pay them and sent them checks and somehow they seem unable to reach their destinations).

Jen has a personal LJ... Dan has one too (it's linked to in that post of Jen's). They are choleric complainers and everything that goes wrong is everyone ELSES fault. You can try e-mailing them... but I'd bet it would be returned with a scathing e-mail talking about how you have no right to tell them how to run their business. I'll take bets on that one."

Michaela

The Young Justice trailer premiere is on the Comic-Con schedule for Friday 7/23 at 10:30am: http://sched.comic-con.org/event/074b43c5fbadb3544d50dc7e0caadbf3
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Michaela> I can't see the pos Jen linked to either and I do have a LiveJournal account. A repost or summary would be helpful, as I'm not ready to join the torch and pitchfork mob without knowing what's going on.
Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

I had a chance to see Macbeth at Hawreluk PArk here in Edmonton. It was one of two plays the Freewill Shakespeare company puts on every June/July here in Edmonton. This is their 22nd year, and the second time they've done Macbeth. The other play they are doing this year (they always do two, one a history or tragedy, the other a comedy) is Much Ado About Nothing.

There is just something amazing about watching live theater under a great big amphiteater in the middle of a park on a gorgeous midsummer night. If any of you venture up this way next summer, you should definatly check it out!

Aside from being a connerstone of Gargoyles, I have always loved Macbeth. I first studdied it in 99-2000, in grade 11. There is a terrific actor, John Wright, who performs every year in each play, and he is my favorite stage actor (he does a lot more than just Shakespeare here in Edmonton, and indeed, across Canada). He played Duncan, and was, as usual, magnificent.

But the most entertaining thing about this adaptation of Macbeth was this: the stage is always, every year, built to suit the story; they have ramps, stairs, a table, etc, what ever to help tell the story. They usually use little, if any, props; only what the story calls for. But, being that they like to use contemporary settings and costumes (for budget's sake), they don't go overboard.

The stage is sued for both plays, so it has to be useful in both stories. For Macbeth, they had a table in the center of the stage that doubled (he he) as a cauldron. (The cauldron also smoked, which was a cool effect.) On the very corners of the large stage, they had two gargoyles (I gather, to make the castle setting more real) and their eyes lit up.

But the best part of the story was the Weird Sisters, who were in virtually every scene, always in a different costume. They first start out as gypsie witches, but are also nurses (reminded me right away of CoS (part II?) with the Weird Sisters holding Duncan's baby, Canmore.)

They were also withered old hags, and nuns in black.

Very cool.

I am eagerly awaiting next thursday, the next time I can go, so I can see Much Ado.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #123 and movie #141... wish me luck!

Michaela > I'd like to be able to read the blog entry that Jennifer's blog is linking to, but I'm not an LJ member and you apparently have to be a member to read it, and I don't want to sign up for LJ just to read one blog...any chance you can copy and paste it here?
Rebel

A new comic or series would be nice. But if one reads what Jennifer L. Anderson has to about SLG (http://crzydemona.livejournal.com/521741.html), I don't think I want them to be it.

Hey, Happy Birthday, Alex!
Happy Birthday, Phil! (Just turn around the numbers, they'll look better then). (^.-)

Michaela

Let me be the first to wish Alexander Xanatos a Happy 14th Birthday!

I always remember the date because his birthday is the same as mine. I'm hitting the big one this year. I won't say how old I am, but last year I was three times as old as Alex.

Everybody have a piece of cake from the cookie table! It's on me!

Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Wingless> The first toy is specifically branded as "Spectacular Spider-Man," meaning it is based on the show. The second one is an regular "Spider-Man" figure. No relation to the show. Even the toys themselves look different. They bodies might be the same (it's hard to tell), but the new figure clearly has a new head and a different paint job.

Josh Keaton did a fantastic job on the show, but that doesn't mean he's going to be the now and forever voice of Spider-Man, nice as that would be.

Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Todd Jensen> Well, history does repeat itself.

On that note, I understand that the reason for not deleting the question based on being a repeat is considered unfair, but couldn't a warning be implemented in the pop up (the one that says "You did read the archive right?") saying "Questions already asked will be deleted."

With a warning installed, it seems like it would be fair to delete an already asked question.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a tweanty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Why do I get the feeling that, when "Ask Greg" is open for questions again, a lot of the questions will be about "Young Justice"?
Todd Jensen

Landon> Agree with Matt on the voice. Yikes x 2. Why not just revoice the whole show too while you're at it (ack, better not give them any ideas)
Wingless

Landon> It's hard to glean too much from a statement where Greg is admitting he doesn't have much or any information straight from Disney. But I think we can at least fairly say that SLG is not actively negotiating for the license at the moment. That's not to say that they won't try again in the future. But for now, it doesn't seem like they have any more claim to it than any other publisher might.
Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

A new interview with Greg: http://www.graphicnovelreporter.com/content/life-after-gargoyles-greg-weisman-speaks-interview

Not much is new, but I found this wording interesting: "At the moment, as far as I know, the license is up for grabs. I'm certainly willing to do more. I'd love to do more. But right now no one has the license, so I'd guess you'd say it's in limbo... It would help if Disney reduced the license fee. I understand they want more money for it, but it would seem to me some money is better than no money. If they charge a little less, SLG might renew it, or another company might pick it up. We were one of SLG's bestselling books. Gargoyles was pretty much SLG's bestselling title when it was coming out. I think there's a value there. Again, I'd be more than willing to write some more."

And his SDCC stuff: "I'm doing a new series called Young Justice, and we're premiering the show at Comic-Con this year at the tail end of the Batman: The Brave and the Bold panel. I'm also part of the DC Showcase Project. If your readers are going to be at Comic-Con, they should definitely stop by. That's what's taking up my time these days: Young Justice."

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Landon> Yikes... that new voice is just... yikes.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

Cool~! So, people are actually thinking about a reboot for Gargoyles, except for us!
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Den of Geek expects an upcoming 90s nostalgia trend as well: http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/529522/9_potential_90s_nostalgia_reboots.html
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Josh Keaton notices something odd in the new Spider-Man toys: http://officialjoshkeaton.blogspot.com/2010/06/when-spectacular-spider-man-got.html I understand the change for licensing/royalty reasons, but wow, what a downgrade.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Well thanks Algernon.... did anyone happen to save these images?
Justin

JUSTIN> Sorry friend, the artist took them down shortly after posting them. Unless you can find someone who saved a copy of the original pic you'll just have to rely on your imagination.
Algernon

Hey

Just wondering, I've looked all over for the link to the Gargoyles 2198 designs. Can anyone in here re post it? Thanks

Justin

I love ancient Greek/Egyptian history (mayby that's why I love [IThe Ten Commandments[/I] movie so much) and since I am part British, I love British History too. Both Stories, I think, would appeal to me as well.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #121 and movie #138... wish me luck!

There are two Dan Rosa stories out there, both linked to history, that I haven't read yet but would like to read some time (I know them, at this point, only through summaries I've seen of them).

The first had Scrooge McDuck and Huey, Dewey, and Louie on a quest for the manuscripts of the library of Alexandria. In the story, a lot of the crucial scrolls of the famous library were copied out before its destruction and sent to Constantinople for safekeeping; Scrooge and Donald's nephews discover, in the course of their quest, that the scrolls were then captured by the Venetians during the Fourth Crusade in 1204 (when the Venetians and the Crusaders teamed up to capture Constantinople), who brought them back to Italy; the information written in them helped inspire the Renaissance. Scrooge discovers that the Spanish conquistadors added to the information in this cache of knowledge by incorporating the lore of the Aztecs and Incas into the collection after conquering them, and so on - leading to his discovery of where all that information ended up....

The other story, "The Once and Future Duck", doesn't feature Scrooge, but includes Donald, his nephews, and Gyro Gearloose. Gyro had invented a time machine and went with Donald and his nephews to Stonehenge to test it out; it takes them back to the period of King Arthur - but this Arthur is a Dark Age leader (the Arthur whom historians think was the person behind the medieval legend, if he existed at all) rather than the familiar king of Camelot, who mistakes Donald and his nephews for Saxon spies.... (The kind of approach that a history buff like Rosa would definitely take.)

Todd Jensen

Todd> I recall a quick image of a stone Gargoyles with a duck beak. That gave me a chuckle. I also liked how detailed the castles actually were. Not easy to do in a comic.

YOu also have to give Rosa credit for attempting to be historically accuarte...

I think this is why I like the "Scrooge" series... much as I like Gargoyles: it's VERY adult, yet also appeals to the kid in me.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #121 and movie #138... wish me luck!

The last news we've heard says #1 will be out in July: http://www.comicsonline.com/node/1116 No Diamond list up to the latest for 7/14 mentions it.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Speaking about comics, any new word on Mecha-Nation? . . . **eyes-all-a-hopeful** . . .
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

So what's BOOM's e-mail address again?
Rebel

Landon> Pretty much agree with Matt's sentiments. Normally I'm not that interested in live-action fan casting for potential movies based on animated properties. For characters who would obviously have to be either an actor wearing tons of makeup or CG, I tend to think the role should go to the original voice actor. But this list is impressive in its sheer exhaustiveness and the picks are generally pretty good. I particularly think Macbeth and Robbins would be really fun to see.

Bane Of Pain> Unfortunately, I don't think that SLG has the money, They couldn't afford to keep paying Disney's licensing fees to continue publishing the comics, so an outright purchase of the property seems extremely unlikely.

Though Disney's lack of enthusiasm for reviving the property is frustrating, Gargoyles is actually getting a decent amount of attention for a series that ended over ten years ago and was never exactly a mega-hit. Certainly the past couple of years have seen Disney paying much more attention to the property than they had previously. Two DVD releases, a total of eighteen new issues of comics, two Goliath statues (one of which is still forthcoming), and a couple of shirts. Not too shabby, especially for a property that Disney doesn't think of as a big moneymaker.

It's true that some of the other Disney Afternoon properties seem to be getting more attention right now. But if the right people - BOOM! being the strongest candidates at the moment - get interested in Gargoyles, who knows what might happen? And while I don't want to jump to conclusions, those Cheeks 2198 character designs were - shall we say - intriguing.

Demonskrye - [<---ThunderCats at The Ink and Pixel Club]

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=6240

I've read on this page that Greg wanted to do a series focusing on the Disney verse. Sounds like it would have been fun.

Now with this in mind, has Greg mentioned an interest in trying to do the series since? Cause I think if he were willing and could get the go ahead that Disney's Villains could be workable as a comic series (given the brief revival of Gargoyles and current revival of Darkwing Duck).

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Cool link, London!
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

I'm actually wondering if there is any chance that SLG could buyout the Gargoyles licensing. Disney doesn't seem to want anything to do with it, and no new products have been released in the past year, other than Clan Building 2, so I'm under the impression that it can be done. On top of that, I'm beginning to believe that disney is letting the franchise rot away in some corner, which is really starting to depress me. I highly enjoyed this series, and I was depressed when I found out that they weren't able to get to the TimeDancer spin off, especially since the wiki got me all hyped about it. Anyways, if this possibility turn is more likely than I thought, don't hesitate to let me know.
Bane_Of_Pain - [daniel dot gilmore at hotmail dot com]
I feel you not, yet I see you still! (Macbeth)

I'm not a big fan of this sort of thing, but that is pretty cool.
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

I think I've linked to a Gargoyles fan casting in the past, but I'm just in awe of the completeness: http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/knightsofgrayskull/news/?a=19729
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

No ten yet? Okay.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"I don't know, I'm making this up as I go." -Indiana Jones

NEIN!
Greg Bishansky
Demona likes Buffalo Wings.

8TH!
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

7th.

One other note on a common feature between "Gargoyles" and "The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck"; both anachronistically depict stone castles in Scotland during Macbeth's reign.

Incidentally, one of my favorite details in the first chapter of "Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck" (which Rosa mentions in the notes at the end); the great hall of Castle McDuck was modelled on a depiction of Camelot's great hall in Hal Foster's comic strip "Prince Valiant". (Even better - though Rosa doesn't mention it in the commentary - that particular scene at Camelot that Rosa was paying tribute to took place on the eve of Val departing on a mission to Scotland; King Arthur had sent him to inspect the ruins of Hadrian's Wall and see if they could be repaired as a boundary against the Picts.)

Todd Jensen

6th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

I plead the fifth...
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> Comic-Con 2010...

Fourth on the Fourth . . . Happy 234th birthday, USA d:
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

Third!
mage_cat - [mage_cat14 at yahoo dot com]

SECOND!
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

You know the room is dead when I become #1! Unless I'm #2 that is. (chirp, chirp,, chirp)
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]