A Station Eight Fan Web Site

Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending July 19, 2010

Index : Hide Images

Watsup, room? Okay, as promised, I have officially uploaded all of my pictures from both the Gathering '08 and '09! Sorry for the quality of some but most came out really good! Going through these brought back a lot of memories :D

~* Gathering of the Gargoyles 2008 (Chicago, IL)*~

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/volpe_fuego/GaThEriNg%20PiX/Gathering%20of%20the%20Gargoyles%2008a/

~* Gathering of the Gargoyles 2009 (LA, CA) *~

http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/volpe_fuego/GaThEriNg%20PiX/Gathering%20of%20the%20Gargoyles%2009/

Enjoy!

VoLpE - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]

Hey guys, I know this is extremely late but I recorded a few bits of last year's Radio Play that I was able to get from one of my memory cards. My card reader broke a while ago but now that I got a new one, I can upload photos and videos from 2008 and 2009's Gathering of the Gargoyles.

The quality of the videos are pretty bad but I thought I'd share them anyway :)

Video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNgiKoxdPVo

Video 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEq0MHBBUek

Video 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqg8y4Br7Y8

Enjoy! As for the pics that I took, I have TONS of them to go through so they probably won't be ready for viewing until tomorrow. I'll let you all know when I have them up though :)

VoLpE - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]

For anyone who's interested, I have 2 BRAND NEW Gargoyles T-shirts for sale! They are both Size: LARGE and OFFICIAL HOT TOPIC releases of this version:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k74/volpe_fuego/HotTopic-GargoylesShirt.jpg

These shirts are currently SOLD OUT on the Hot Topic website and official prints are very rare to find! When I ordered my own a couple of years ago via Hot Topic, I took the liberty of buying extras. But since I have no use for the spares, I think they deserve a good, new home.

For each shirt, I am charging $30 + $5 shipping (US), $15 shipping (overseas). Once payment is received, the shirt(s) will be mailed out from my home here in Florida the following day. I only accept Paypal :)

If anyone's interested, please don't hesitate to send me a reply/e-mail! I also have candid photos of the actual shirts so that you can verify their authenticity.

Thanks for taking a look and have a great day!

~Jenn

VoLpE - [sailorx78 at hotmail dot com]

Oh uh, I think the facebook group just plateaued! :(
Algernon

I wish you the best of luck, UmbrellaFish.
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

I'm glad everyone likes the letter! Yes, I am 15 and I believe there are many more Garg fans who are mine and Lexie's ages. I just don't think many of them have found Station Eight yet.

I will be sending my letters out this morning.

UmbrellaFish

Umbrellafish, it's nice to see that someone else who was born after the show became interested in it, I'm 16. And you wrote a wonderfully worded letter, I was very impressed. Glad to have you here!
Lexie
Fixing the BP oil spill? There's an app for that.

Wow UmbrellaFish, you are only 15? That's so weird to think you were born after the show already premiered. (Makes me feel old, I am 25) :P Nice letter.
Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]
I <3 Brooklyn

UMBRELLA FISH> Sounds good, go with it! :)
Algernon

I wrote a letter. Please review it.

------

To Whomever It May Concern,

Hello and warm greetings! My name is XXX, I am fifteen years of age, and I have been a loyal fan of the nineteen nineties television series Gargoyles for all fifteen of those years. It has recently come to my attention that a new movie based on the mythical creatures, gargoyles, is being developed at the Disney Studios. Upon first hearing the news I was immediately excited because I believed the new movie was to be based upon my beloved childhood series. Upon further investigation, I have learned, with much disappointment, that it is not.

Disney�s Gargoyles is perhaps the greatest animated television series ever produced and I believe Disney is sitting on a gold mine, perhaps not even realizing it! Why create a whole new franchise anyway, when you already have a dedicated fan base and nostalgia in another? I know personally that I would eagerly purchase anything related to a movie based on the television series Gargoyles. I cannot say I would do the same for the movie if it were otherwise.

Now, I should try and describe what Gargoyles means to me, but I can�t possibly do so, as it means just so very much to me, as it also does for countless other fans, many my age and younger. I will say this, though. Whenever I mention Gargoyles in a conversation at the lunch table or perhaps on the bus or somewhere else, the mere mention of the name brings a smile to one�s face. And these are children who were barely babies when the show premiered! I couldn�t imagine the impact of nostalgia upon older fans.

I deeply encourage you to make your new film based on the original TV show. I cannot not describe how happy and ecstatic I would be if this was so. Disney�s Gargoyles features a rich tapestry of incredible story telling, very much ahead of its time- in fact it still is! The very impressive SLG comic books have also reached a whole different type of fans, and the merchandise for the film would surely fly off the shelves, just as it did sixteen years ago.

So please, I beseech you, take this opportunity to bring Elisa Maza, Goliath, Demona, Xanatos, and the hundreds of other wonderful characters to the big screen. Thank you so very much for taking your time to read this letter.

With much thanks,
XXX

UmbrellaFish

I wonder how Disney plans to portray these new gargoyles in the intended movie - not only whether they'll be the main characters or colorful secondary characters, but also whether they'll be depicted as friends or foes. Despite the "gargoyles as protectors" concept, most living gargoyles that I've seen in fiction have been portrayed as dangerous, hostile monsters. I can only think of a few exceptions besides the gargoyles of our favorite animated series: the gargoyles in the Disney animated "Hunchback of Notre Dame", and those in the computer game "Ultima VI", where they appear menacing at first, but turn out to be an intelligent civilization with a legitimate grievance against the protagonist (who unwittingly stole a magic book that formed the center of their culture).
Todd Jensen

Have you noticed the similarity between:
1- Demona tackled Goliath to the ground, steps on him and aims a big gun to his face. Elisa tackles Demona down.

2-Thailog tackles Demona to the ground, steps on her and aims a big gun to her face. Goliath tackles Thailog away

:D

Oneboredchick
I knew Argentina would win

AUDRA> Look this way, what do Transformers: Animated, Spectacular Spider-Man[/] and [i]Wolverine and The X-Men have in common? They were all kick-ass animated series created to tie into mediocre to god-awful franchise movies. ;)
Algernon

Lol, I meant to say, "the REST of Season 2 on DVD." I wish we could edit out posts. Made me laugh reading my typo though, haha.2
Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]
I <3 Brooklyn

Yeah that could be possible. I'll be positive and do what I can to help, I'll try writing to the addresses you gave. I guess I just wish Greg had something to do with it. But of course I would still want to see it if someone else wrote it, and you are right it would probably help the fandom. (Like maybe finally get the reason of season 2 on DVD)
Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]
I <3 Brooklyn

To quote David Xanatos "If you want to be picky we won't get anywhere. Try to focus on the big picture."
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

AUDRA> Well, look at it this way. If there is a movie based on "Gargoyles," our "Gargoyles" and it's bad, it will still shine a light on our franchise as a whole, and Disney would want to cash in on it. It would GUARANTEE US that last DVD, and maybe even more comic books... hell, maybe a new animated series.

Take a look at "The Last Airbender." Yes, the movie was terrible. It sucked. BUT some good came out of it. Nickelodeon is making a new series based that's a spin-off of "Avatar: The Last Airbender" that the original creators are in charge of.

The same thing could and likely would happen with "Gargoyles" and if a bad movie directly based on the property is the key to good stuff happening, we should all be for it.

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

Well you know, I'm not sure if I want this movie to be based off the series if Greg isn't apart of it. Yeah, it's possible someone else could do a good job with it. But look at what happened the last time when Greg wasn't involved. (The Goliath Chronicles)

Disney is not just going to get rid of Zoe Green and get Greg to replace him. I know it sounds like I'm making things worse by thinking this way. I really do want a Gargoyles movie based off the series but I guess I'm just afraid of how it will turn out if Greg isn't writing it.

Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]
I <3 Brooklyn

I just sent this letter out to the Facebook group. But, for those of you not on Facebook, here it is:

First of all, thank you all for joining. As we are all organizing here, we also need to make noise and get Disney's attention. We need to let them know that we want to see the 90's "Gargoyles" series adapted into a movie instead of this take that is being developed. Just gathering together on Facebook isn't enough. We need to make noise on the internet, and write letters.

These are the two people we need to contact. LouAnne Brickhouse at Disney, and Lauren Shuler Donner at the Donner Company. Both of their business addresses will be included at the end of this message.

First, and I cannot stress this enough. The tone we all take is very important. Be passionate, but do not be hostile. If we get hostile, we're giving them every excuse to throw our letters away, and we cannot do that. Tell them if they are going to make a movie about "Gargoyles" to embrace the popular cartoon from the 1990's. Tell them there is a large fanbase that loves it. Tell them that there is a rich mythology and lots of great material that would make for a great franchise of movies. Tell them they shouldn't throw this away.

Also, this is not about Greg Weisman. They have a writer that they like, so don't badmouth Zoe Green, and don't tell them that they should get Greg Weisman to write it. That also would be counterproductive.

If everyone's got that, here's who to contact:

ATTN: Lauren Shuler Donner
The Donners' Company
9465 Wilshire Blvd. Suite 420
Beverly Hills, CA 90212
USA

ATTN: LouAnne Brickhouse
The Walt Disney Studios Company
500 S. Buena Vista St.
Burbank, CA 91521-9722
USA

My only request is that everyone does this. Don't just assume that everyone else will go ahead and do it. We all need to do this if we're going to make an impact.

Also, keep on inviting people to the group and encouraging them to spread the word as well.

Thank you.

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

LANDON> Thanks for the pics, I decided to go with the one of the Trio giving each other WTF looks. You can check it out on facebook.

TODD> That's actually the kinda thing I could see co-existing with the regular Gargoyles universe, since it's distinct enough that you wouldn't have to worry about people confusing them too much. Plus they have the good sense not to actually call it "Gargoyles".

Algernon

Ran across a mention today of a new comic book mini-series being planned called "The Scourge", which has New York City being overrun with a virus that turns humans into gargoyle-like monsters. (The interview with the writer mentioned that gargoyles are traditionally supposed to be protectors - hence he found the subversion of that with gargoyles being a threat instead appealing - though he didn't mention the Disney series. He also said that the protagonist is named "Griffin" because of the traditional links of gargoyles to griffons.)
Todd Jensen

I joined the Facebook page! Yes, it is disappointing that a Gargoyle movie will be made that has nothing to do with the series that we all love so much. I really hope Disney will change their plans and base the movie off the series. But I doubt that will happen... I will still want to see this movie either way, but still, I miss Gargoyles so much. I never loved a show as much as I do Gargoyles... I was sad when the comics ended too.

Also, I can't believe Greg was in Ashland, OR a few days ago, I live close to Ashland! I wish I could of met him.

Audra - [birdygirl85 at hotmail dot com]
I <3 Brooklyn

*Comes out of lurking*

Wow... The CR seems to be buzzing quite a bit!

Bishansky > Joined the page on Facebook. :)

Since Greg W. will be at Comic-Con, maybe I (or someone else that's attending) can swing by when he's doing his signings to ask about this movie project...

The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Homework...

ANTHONY TINI - I heartily agree. Not to mention that I'd also like everyone to check both the archives and the queue to make certain that your question hasn't already been asked.

I speculated a while ago that Greg would be getting a lot of "Young Justice" questions when the queue opened up, but now that I know it'll be opening near the end of the month, that seems less likely; at least, I assume that "Young Justice" won't be out by then. (I never did find out the premiere date - or if I did, I didn't bother to remember it.)

Todd Jensen

I'll try again later.
Algernon

Just trying out the link
Algernon
a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=142182852459700&v=wall">gargoyles movie</a

Hell yeah, Just made the four hundred mark! :D
Algernon

Almost 400 people already. I hope the group continues to grow at this rate and doesn't hit a plateau.
Gargoyles Movie - [Rebel (trying to help with Google bombing)]

I sent out an invite to join the group[ to several dozen people I know on my FB,and I know a couple of them will join.

I don't think the news is so dire, but I know we gotta do what we can to make sure that if this property is turned into a movie it is done right. I for one will try to do what I can.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #128 and movie #150... wish me luck!

I've already got an article in the works for this Tuesday, but I may be able to put something together. I'll keep you guys posted.
Demonskrye - [<---Big Bang Big Boom at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Everyone that owns any kind of website at all can probably try this google bombing thing. I know several s8 regulars have websites. Give it a shot guys! It might help!
Rebel

People, please don't bombard Greg W's queue when it opens with questions about the upcoming movie. Obviously this Zoe Green person was approached by Disney and Greg was not, so I don't think he's privy to any more info on the matter than we are at this point.

I haven't seen the Facebook page yet that Greg B created, but maybe this movie will help boost the "right" Gargoyles. Here's hoping!

Anthony Tini

A forum signature would be great as long as the site is indexed by Google. I doubt more than a couple entries on S8 would help though. Google's algorithms probably check for that. The more variety of sites the better.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Landon > Is it possible to do some google bombing right here on s8? If Gorebash is about, he could probably sneak that code in unobtrusively all over this site.

Also, does google bombing work on forums using bbc code? Obviously I would just change the code for bbc but would it still work? I'm an active member of a pretty big forum, I could just change my forum signature.

Demonskrye > If you wanted to, and if you didn't think it was inappropriate for your site, you could post about this movie issue over at Ink and Pixel club (and maybe do some google bombing). I really loved that Big Bang Big Boom thing, by the way.

Rebel

W.I.T.C.H.> Just so the newcomers don't get lost in all of the conversation about the movie.

Greg doesn't usually post in the Comment Room. He answers questions on Ask Greg, but your questions have been asked and answered already. It's not Greg's decision. Disney owns W.I.T.C.H. and it's up to them to decide if they're going to do anything with it. A third season after so much time has passed is highly unlikely at best. A reboot might be a little more likely, but only if Disney believes that it's something people want to see. Your best bet is to write to Disney (real letters work better than e-mail) and tell them you want to see more W.I.T.C.H. I'm not really familiar with the series, so I don't know if there are DVDs out, but if there are, buying those would help to show Disney that they can still make money from the property. Get your friends to do the same and Disney might start to pay attention.

If you have any other questions, check the Ask Greg archives to see if they've been answered already. You can do a search or go to "Browse the Archives" and click on the "W.I.T.C.H." section.

Demonskrye - [<---Big Bang Big Boom at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Cristen-Given how long it's been since season two aired, a third season of WITCH is phenomenally unlikely. Sad but true.
mage_cat - [mage_cat14 at yahoo dot com]

If we want the Facebook page to go the distance as rumors keeps swirling around, it'd be great if a Google search for 'gargoyles movie' returned the Facebook page as the first result. Right now the Facebook page in on the 2nd page of results. If I remember how Google Bombs work, we need the phrase 'gargoyles movie' to be hyperlinked to the Facebook page in as many locations as possible, like this: a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=142182852459700&v=wall">gargoyles movie</a (add outside brackets) Try to put it in context, of course.

If every Gargoyles fan page contains that code, it might bump up the Google results. There isn't really a definitive site for 'gargoyles movie'--the Cinema Blend article is already at #3, so a top Google result is ours for the taking.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

305 members as of now! :D
Algernon

Hello greg,
Will there ever be a Witch season 3?????

Cristen - [roxy101 at yahoo dot com]

262 members as of now.

And to think, I'd have been happy if we had 100 on the first day.

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

Asatira> Yeah, someone below posted that, too. Sounds awesome!

242 fans as of... whatever the time stamp on my post is.

Jade Griffin
"Get yer jammies, Ralph!" -Bill Maxwell (played by Robert Culp), "The Greatest American Hero" -- You sure did, sir; you sure did...

Hey, guys! I've been away for a while, but I wanted to share a little plus I just found. I'm not sure how many here watched TRANSFORMERS ANIMATED when it aired, but I really enjoyed it and was glad when they got around to creating the second volume of the ALLSPARK ALMANAC. It has a lot of details and fun stuff related to the third season and a little on what could have been in the fourth. Some of this includes details about random elements from the show, including this one game that Bumblebee was a fan of. It was in the style of an old NES or Sega Genesis game, and has a strategy guide. The characters featured are all homages and references to a number of 80s and 90s animated series.

The first one is called "The Old Soldier" and has a defensive move called Stone Skin. Not a bad likeness for an animated sprite.

Asatira

Midnight CDT: 225 members!
mage_cat - [mage_cat14 at yahoo dot com]

200 members!
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

As of midnight, EST time, we have 193 members.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

Harvester of Eyes> On the note of the Deadpool Movie, X-Men Origins Deadpool #1 was released today.

The story according to the summary is that Deadpool hears of the movie, and plans to tell his origin before Hollywood screws it up.

Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a twenty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

LOL, I love the wide range of reactions the trio has to watching Bambi: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~thom1576/gargoyles/bambi/vlcsnap-2010-07-14-20h12m25s237.png
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Algernon - Here you go: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~thom1576/gargoyles/bambi/
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

"The 'Gargoyles' Movie That Isn't", my thoughts on the news, is up at my blog: http://nymonsters.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/hiatus-break-the-gargoyles-movie-that-isnt/

[QUOTE]The biggest question in most Gargoyles fans' minds right now is a very logical "WHY THE FUCK?!" Why spend money and brainpower developing what they already have? Some have come to believe that they're the butt of a sadistic joke: after a decade and a half of support and requests for more "gargoyles" they're rewarded with precisely that…except not. Even Puck couldn't have planned it better.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I'm not surprised to hear that the movie may take after "The Sorcerer's Apprentice"--for some reason, that's the impression I got from the first release. For that matter, my gut tells me that for all the initial talk, Gargoyles won't actually be the stars of Zoe Green's movie. Anybody else feel that way?

Ian Perez - [doknowbutchie at gmail dot com]

Okay...clearly I need to stop by the CR more often, I didn't even hear about this gargoyles movie atrocity until I checked my Facebook and three different people sent me messages about the movie...needless to say I have joined the FB group. Keep me updated.
Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com - [Sir_Griff723 at yahoo dot com]
"I am the terror, that flaps in the night"--Darkwing Duck

Dear Greg,
W.I.T.C.H was an amazing serious! I'm not the only one who loved it as well, thousands of people did too. Alot of people have tried to get W.I.T.C.H back for a third season. & I mean tried! Even though, people stop producing W.I.T.C.H do you think you can create a brand new season of W.I.T.C.H? Make a whole new plot for the season & everything? I'm not saying you have too, but think of everyone that loved W.I.T.C.H, Would want to bring them down? It'd mean so much to me & everyone else. Come on? PLASEEE! You can't just leave W.I.T.C.H like that? I mean it's like a cliff hanger? It needs another season to continue on! I mean you leave us with that mysterious new computer teacher on W.I.T.C.H that seems very suspicious! Would you atleast think about it? PLEASE?

Jenny - [cutechickmmsdancer_421 at yahoo dot com]

Have not posted here in well... quite some time. Between working a night shift for 2 years and now trying to start my own web show. I've been well.. busy and forgotten some of the places I used to hang around.

But some reason this was the first place I thought of when I heard of this gargoyles movie and thought I'd let you know I did join the facebook group you guys got.

Ozzie Arcane - [ozziearcane at yahoo dot com]
"Hello Booby, this is a trap!" - Eggplant Wizard

There's also this article: *link*
Leo - [<Disney Preps Live-Action 'Gargoyles?']

It took less than four hours, but we're now over one hundred members. Again, most of them people I have never heard of, who have never attended a Gathering or really been in the fandom.

We are reaching the casual fans. We must keep doing this.

Spread the word!

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

If the new "gargoyles" movie does get made, I have the suspicion that within a few days of its premiere, there'll be several crossover fanfics going up having those gargoyles meeting Goliath and his clan.

But, yes, the response to the movie news has certainly been good publicity for "Gargoyles". And there's the possibility that, as Ed suggested, it might be a good movie in its own right.

With "Ask Greg" reopening soon - let's all please take care not to ask Greg questions that have already been submitted (whether still in the queue or not) - and for that matter, to see if we could ask some in the Station 8 comment room in case people here might know the answer. Though I have one question (really, more a comment) planned for Greg.

Todd Jensen

Wow. New 'Gargoyles' film. Colour me... excited!

Really! No, really, you guys, look -- look!! That's our comic getting mentioned there in Variety. On ComingSoon.net. Free publicity, that is. And you can bet every article from now until it either launches to a monster box office or is quietly shelved will drop us a mention.

If the film does tank, a squillion lazy journalists will mention that the highly-regarded 90s cartoon was a more obvious target for reinvention. Free press, a constant stream of hype, a bit of a nostalgia wave. Not a big one, but do we need a big one? The comic didn't tank, it just wasn't successful enough to bear the licensing costs, so a regular stream of press references could do very nicely in terms of pushing us over the wall.

And if the film is a hit, Disney have no reason to hide the fact that they have other garg-themed products to flog. Chances are good, they'll at least have a tilt at flogging some DVDs or licensing some books. And worst case scenario, we're exactly where we are now.

Sure, potentially we might be in a Spectacular/Ultimate Spidey situation where Disney want to bury all record of the previous iteration, but that was always a risk with a film. And to me, it's a much bigger risk if the film IS a reworking of the same property, because there's a greater potential for it being confusing, and them wanting to clear out the Weisman version to make way for the, whoever, Michael Bay version. THAT would be upsetting.

Also, commissioning a script isn't making a film. Loads of scripts don't end up as films. Or end up as different films from what they started out as. What it shows is that somebody at Disney thinks there's merit in 'gargoyles' (if not 'Gargoyles'), and that's a better place to be than we were yesterday.

Think of it this way. It's a much smaller leap from nowhere to 'gargoyles' than 'gargoyles' to 'Gargoyles'. One measly capital letter! And if there's one thing this fandom can do, it's punctuate!

Even if they're not OUR gargoyles, well, Disney's a big organisation and can stomach multiple gargoyles-themed projects. Let's not forget, Gargoyles was last big in 1996, and nobody got confused with the 'Hunchback' gargoyles. Goliath is pretty distinctive.

Most of all though, the reason I'm excited is because there's a lot of reason to think this film MIGHT NOT SUCK. It could be good. It could be AMAZING. Del Toro's developing kids' horror projects at Disney if I recall. Imagine if he gets a hold of the script, knocks it into shape a bit. Who knows, we could be talking the next "Pan's Labyrinth".

Gargoyles are a great concept. A classic monster, certainly one deserving of going toe to toe with the lame werewolves and vampires who are the craze recently. Great ideas deserve to fly and be let loose. It's tempting to be selfish, to be limiting, to say THIS IS THE WAY and no other will do, but I think it would be a great shame.

Everything new stands in the shadow of something, and now with the internet that shadow tends to take the form of a legion of bitter old fans moaning about how the last iteration of X or Y was better. Spectacular had it from past Spidey incarnations. NewBSG had OldBSG. B5 had it from Star Trek. Gargoyles was all new but even that briefly lived in fear of being seen as a B:TAS knock-off. It's never helpful -- and most importantly, it never reflects well on the prior incarnation or its fans.

Yes, we should be making noise, but let's talk up rather than down. As Greg B's excellent Facebook site points out, the 90s show was 'excellent' and has potential. The bar is high. That's the message we want anyone watching us to take home.

The message we don't want is that a bunch of grumbling malcontents can't let go of the 90s. Because all that tells anybody trying to market the movie is, do NOT pay any attention to these guys because they will not support the film anyway.

But yeah. Free press. Potential cool new film. Bit closer to a 'Gargoyles' flick. Greg B's great Facebook group. Pretty good.

(BTW, for another, completely different, but utterly cool take on moving statues check out the Weeping Angels. The other great new monster in horror this millennium so far, the other being the Pale Man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0R01gP3m0)

Ed

Joined.

Landon > In order to contact those people, we'd have to get the admin of that group to send out a message. But several years ago I had a big group on facebook and we'd send out messages every week about what was going on on campus. But once the group hit 1,000 people, we couldn't send out mass messages anymore. I don't know if facebook has changed that in the last few years (I hope they have).

Rebel

I don't use Facebook much. Does anyone know how to collectively contact the 6,194 fans at the main Gargoyles Facebook page? http://www.facebook.com/pages/Disneys-Gargoyles/10206518586 I wonder if there's some way to make something appear on all their walls.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Just said this on the new Facebook page and I'm going to say it here too:

My initial reaction was that this movie meant bad news for Gargoyles. Not only is Disney seemingly more interested in developing a very similar new property than reviving one they already have, the movie being made would give Disney reason to completely ignore Gargoyles for fear that consumers would be confused about the relationship between the show and the movie.

But everywhere I've seen the announcement about the new movie, I've seen comments - numerous comments - asking either "Is this based on the TV series?" or "Why isn't it based on the TV series?". That's an awful lot of people talking about Gargoyles, people who may not be the superfan types who come here, but who obviously still remember the TV show. This could be an opportunity.

I'm not suggesting we all run in and spam every article with dozens of comments about the DVDs and comics. But if it seems appropriate and if they haven't been mentioned already, then this would be a very good time to mention the material that is available. This is a rare occasion when we don't have to try and start conversations about Gargoyles; they're already happening. All we need to do is insert some useful information in a tactful way.

Demonskrye - [<---Big Bang Big Boom at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Fifty members in less than two hours.

Do you want to know what the best part is? Most of them are people I have never met at a Gathering, or never heard of in the fandom.

Keep it up, spread the word! People remember!

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

On a related does anybody know where I can get a pic of the Trio watching Bambi from reawakenings? I need it for the facebook page, just until the fan artists come up with something better.
Algernon

But, more than that, we need to MAKE NOISE!

This goes beyond spreading the word about the DVD's or the comics, the entire property might be at stake here.

So, make noise, and don't shut up.

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

I have started a facebook group about this, ahem "movie." If you have a facebook, please join. Please encourage your friends to join.

Spread the word!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=142182852459700&v=wall

If you don't have a facebook, it's easy enough to get one. We need as many people as we can get.

Greg Bishansky

I know others have said this already, but I just really, really can't understand why they'd develop a new gargoyles property when they've already got a really solid one just waiting for some attention. I can understand why Disney doesn't want to release Season 2, Volume 2--the others didn't sell well enough, and Disney didn't want to invest the money advertising. Whatever, it bugs me, but I can understand it.

But this just really doesn't make sense. Regardless of whether they used "Gargoyles" or made up a new gargoyles property, they'd still have to invest probably the same amount of money to make a good movie and hire good people, more-or-less the same amount of money to promote the thing, etc., etc. But ultimately I think using "Gargoyles" would be more cost-effective because there'd be no need to hire anyone to invent a completely new concept, and I feel like it would draw even more viewers and rake in more money at the box office than a new gargoyles property. Yes, "Gargoyles" may not have been an overwhelming, smashing financial success, but it was well-loved by the kids who watched it at the time. True, most of those kids have grown up to be young adults who have not remained "die-hard" fans--they didn't buy the DVDs and haven't bought the comics, and might not even know about them. But show them a trailer of a live-action version of "Gargoyles" and you'll trigger their fond, if vague, memories of the show and you'll have them flocking to theaters for nostalgia's sake if nothing else. Make the movie accessible to people who aren't familiar with the show, jazz it up with some cool effects, a great cast and a solid story and you'll make a pile of money, even more than what you'd make if you made a new gargoyles property from scratch.

The renewed interest in the property would result in all the leftover DVDs and comics getting sold pretty quickly, and Disney could take advantage of the hype to release more DVDs and possibly Season 2, and would turn a nice little profit on that as well.

I just. don't. get. this.

Rebel

A long time lurker here...

I just received my Transformers Animated Allspark Almanac, Vol. II. On page 93, it features a gargoyle with a striking resemblance to Hudson. Who am I kidding? It's Hudson to a T.

The page depicts a fictional game in the Transformers Animated universe called Ninja Gladiator. Hudson, in a pixelated style, is under the game's classic game strategy as the Old Soldier, who is "plenty tough," and "when enemies get close," the player can "use his Stone Skin attack to push them away."

Awesome. :)

ry_lo - [m2i1b0x-2010 at yahoo dot com]
ry_lo

Frankly Diane, I'm surprised.

I am intrigued, as well, but If Greg isn't involved... but then, this is all premature.

A live action film would be a GREAT boost for our cause.

Battle Beast - [Canada]
I have started a movie challenge whereby I am wtching all 475 Best Picture nominees and winners in 365 days. I am on Day #126 and movie #146... wish me luck!

Sure, I'll ask if I can. But considering Greg said he got a hundred calls during the Disney/Marvel merger, I bet he knows about it by now.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Either way this thing goes, whatever they're doing with this movie thing, it's going to be interesting...Things are about to get interesting, indeed.

I already made up my mind. If this movie thing comes out, I'm defiantly watching it.

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Well, Landon was the person who brought us the news, so maybe he should be our designated Greg Asker for this topic - if he wants the job.
Demonskrye - [<---Big Bang Big Boom at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Jurgan - We can, but that's not going to stop other people from posting questions about it if they feel like it. Ideally Greg W, if he has time, will post one of those green announcements telling us what he knows and doesn't know about this new development (probably no more than what the rest of us know) and giving us his take on what this means for "Gargoyles." *MAYBE* that might curb some of the flood of questions about it. But I'm sure many people will ask anyway.
Rebel

Well, Ask Greg's queue is almost empty, which means he'll probably reopen soon. I think I know the first question he's going to get twenty times in a row...

Should we designate someone to ask about this movie thing, just to keep from flooding him?

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Landon> The potential silver lining could be that this initial announcement increases interest in the DVDs and the comic just by mentioning that they movie isn't connected to them. And maybe, just maybe, Disney will realize that there's more interest in a movie based on Gargoyles than there is in a totally new concept using similar themes and ideas.

The trick is going to be seeing whether Disney looks at these comments and says "Maybe we underestimated the market for Gargoyles" or thinks "Oh sure, they're all happy to post about how great the TV series was, but put the show on DVD and they just shrug and say they'd rather watch it on YouTube"(whether or not that's a fair assessment).

Demonskrye - [<---Big Bang Big Boom at The Ink and Pixel Club]

RE: "Gargoyles" Movie

Hmm, interesting. Excuse me for a moment.

*Screams into pillow*

Algernon

Demonskrye - "The fact that Disney doesn't think the current Gargoyles brand name had enough clout to put money in their pockets isn't news"

Which is really short-sided, even from a perspective outside the fandom. Look at the comments from ComingSoon.net: http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=67938 That's an mainstream website and yet every comment is just as baffled as we are that they're avoiding the TV series. Disney underestimates geek culture.

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

Movie> I agree that at this point, we don't have enough information to say too much about this movie. It could change drastically in production, assuming it even makes it through production. There's even a chance - however slim - that Disney could do an about face and decide that the movie should be based on the show and comic instead. But if the project continues to be a completely new take on living gargoyles, I think it could be detrimental to the future of the original property. It's possible that the two could be similar enough that Disney would decide to promote the DVDs and maybe the comics as a slightly different take on the movie storyline. But if the two properties are very different, Disney could decide to ignore the original Gargoyles even more than they have been for fear of confusing consumers.

The fact that Disney doesn't think the current Gargoyles brand name had enough clout to put money in their pockets isn't news, but it is kind of disheartening to learn that they're considering a completely different take on the concept rather than a reboot of the original. Still, this is the first we've heard of this idea and nothing is (pardon the pun) set in stone.

Demonskrye - [<---Big Bang Big Boom at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Uncle Scrooge #393 is out today with its 2nd DuckTales adventure. So far BOOM! is meeting a monthly schedule, even with the Disney licensing. Preview: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=5746
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

This interview with Greg is probably the longest yet: http://spectacularwebspodcast.podomatic.com/entry/eg/2010-07-09T12_16_18-07_00 Some repeat info but they go really in-depth with Spidey character analysis and background.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

The truth is, we still don't know enough about this project to draw any sort of conclusions from it. As far as we know, the end result might be the polar opposite of "Gargoyles." A screenplay can go through all sorts of doctoring before it gets filmed. For now, let's just see where this goes.

Honestly, there are things in that article that disturb me even more. For one thing, what's this talk of a live action prequel to "Sleeping Beauty"? And I'm apprehensive about a "Deadpool" movie, given how much he sucked in "X-Men Origins: Wolverine." A movie about Magneto might have potential, but I'm not optimistic if it involves the same people who produced Wolverine.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Bill Watterson

To lighten or darken to mood, however one may view it, here's the Nostalgia Critic's review on this "charming" movie called The Room: http://nostalgiacritic.blip.tv/file/3878344/
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
Algernon's comment about Norman Osborn: One of the neat things about Dark Reign is that it gives Osborn the chance to expand his horizons beyond tormenting a tweanty nine year old who still lives with his mom.

Sigh... here come the conspiracy theories again...
Greg Bishansky

Why do I get the feeling that Disney is just going to be making another comedy?!....
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]

I'm insulted and already want nothing to do with it. Disney has a winning property if they'd only market it properly. Instead they constantly are trying to bury it and forget "Gargoyles" ever existed. I'd love to know the reason behind it.
Wingless

http://heatvision.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/07/disney-developing-gargoyles-project.html

You have got to be kidding me? Did she even do her research before coming up with that "idea?" I swear, if that movie gets greenlit, and doesn't factor into helping up at all, I will HATE her for life.

Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
STEPHEN KING IS GOD! . . . in a sense.

Greg: Regarding your first hope, it would certainly help us. But there could be two wholly different incarnations of the brand "Disney's gargoyles" (not including Hunchback of Notre Dame). It's just a baffling business decision. Talk about brand confusion. The Variety coming-out article (which must have some industry weight) is already full of caveats.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

"Gargoyles" Movie: Talk about your twists . . . I mean, wow . . . **shakes head**

**sits down and continues to watch and listen**

Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

I have two hopes. One, that Disney wants to cash in on the concept all together, and it draws attention to us.

Or, if that's unlikely, it falls into development hell.

Greg Bishansky

What are they doing? I mean, what's the point? You've already got the rights to a very well-developed gargoyles property and a creator who'd love to keep it going- why pay someone else to develop a whole new property? Now, it doesn't say much about the idea this person has, so it may not turn out much like our Gargoyles at all, but even still, it just seems like if gargoyles was something Disney wanted to produce, why not use what they have?
Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

...What the fuck?
Harlan Phoenix - [harlanphoenix at live dot com]

Bad news, then.
Rebel

<Holy crap: http://heatvision.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/07/disney-developing-gargoyles-project.html

"The project seeks to build a mythology around the carvings, originally designed in medieval times to act as spouts but later took on roles as powerful symbols to ward off or attract evil. The story is being developed, but it is known to be set in modern times.">

OH...MY...GOD...

NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

Holy crap: http://heatvision.hollywoodreporter.com/2010/07/disney-developing-gargoyles-project.html

"The project seeks to build a mythology around the carvings, originally designed in medieval times to act as spouts but later took on roles as powerful symbols to ward off or attract evil. The story is being developed, but it is known to be set in modern times."

Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I bet they're going to use similar elements from "Gargoyles" in this gargoyles movie thing. I don't know if I should feel happy or slightly insulted that there's might be a possible chance they might steal something from our beloved "Gargoyles".
NinjaSheik - [hhodoan at yahoo dot com]

I can't figure out whether that's good news or bad news.
Rebel

Re non-gargoyles "gargoyles" movie.

After reading those first three paragraphs in that article,... I have no words. never mind... O.O

Leo

Darkwing Duck #1 sold 6,300 copies in June: http://kneontransitt.blogspot.com/2010/07/diamonds-top-300-comics-for-june-2010.html That's less than the 7,500 Gargoyles #1 sold despite a lot more publicity. Still, Gargoyles had a big drop-off in later months with delays as a contributing factor. DW#2 is already on the Diamond list for 7/21 so we'll see how it holds up.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

This is, um, interesting: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118021704.html?categoryid=13&cs=1 They mention Gargoyles twice as they try to convince us how the new Disney gargoyles movie has nothing to do with Gargoyles.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]

I hope the math accounts for the 11 days that were skipped in 1752 when the British Empire finally adopted the Gregorian calendar. ;)
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

GregW was apparently just in Ashland seeing Shakespeare. I think, based on the plays he said he saw, that he was there the three days directly after I was there seeing shows. Drat! I was even telling someone in one of the performances how I learned of Shakespeare and first learned to love it because of Greg and Gargoyles.

But I too, can wholeheartedly recommend the festival. 12th night, Hamlet, both especially praiseworthy in my mind.

UncleDeadly

PATRICK> <<Greg must know when the eggs arrived there down to the day.>>

Yup, he does. Have you seen the timeline at GargWiki? They arrived on Avalon on September 28th, 995.

http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/Timeline

Greg Bishansky

I wonder how the Avalon clan's hatching date was calculated given that the year 1058 lasted only about 15 days as Avalon time is reckoned. Greg must know when the eggs arrived there down to the day.
Patrick
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka

Antiyonder> Here you go, the characters you asked about:

Gulyadkin is the leonine companion of Sergei Kravinoff.
Seymour O'Reilly is a student at M3 in the same year as Peter (I think).
Dilbert Trilby is an anchor/reporter for Action News.
Alan O'Neil is a police officer under Captain Stacy.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

A Mc Keehan> Does anybody know what Angela's Date Of Birth is ? Is there any new info about if the second half of season two is going to be put on DVD. If that ever happens it would be nice if The Journey (one of my favorite episodes) was included it being the last episode Series creator Greg Weisman did.

1. Angela hatched in 1058.
2. Season 2 Volume 1 didn't sell enough to merit Disney's attention.

Anyway, if you aren't aware, the series had a brief return in comic book format in which all of the published and unpublished issues are collected.

Gargoyles Clan Building Volume 1: http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Clan-Building-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593620969/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279008267&sr=1-4

Gargoyles Clan Building Volume 2: http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Clan-Building-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593621671/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279008267&sr=1-1

Gargoyles Bad Guys: http://www.amazon.com/Gargoyles-Bad-Guys-Greg-Weisman/dp/1593621930/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279008267&sr=1-6

And The Journey is actually told in comic book format in Clan Building Volume 1, plus includes scenes exclusive to the comic, as well as an error being corrected.

Antiyonder

Does anybody know what Angela's Date Of Birth is ? Is there any new info about if the second half of season two is going to be put on DVD. If that ever happens it would be nice if The Journey (one of my favorite episodes) was included it being the last episode Series creator Greg Weisman did.
A Mc Keehan - [AMcKeehan4184 at yahoo dot com/]

Since Greg W provides a name from the comics when naming a character on TSSM, I'd like some imput if possible on the following character (from the Radio Play):

- Guladkin
- Seymour O'Reilly
- Dilbert Trilby
- Alan O'Neil

Antiyonder

Dang, keep forgetting about this place. Just a quick check in to see what's going on and anything important I may have missed. Alright, see ya.
Warcrafter - [grafixfangamer1 at sbcglobal dot net]
STEPHEN KING IS GOD! . . . in a sense.

Todd> Ah, you're right. It's obviously been too long since I last read the "Enter Macbeth" ramble and I misremembered it.
Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

DEMONSKRYE - Actually, according to Greg Weisman, Macbeth was planned as *the* Macbeth from the beginning, though he didn't know the full details about the historical Macbeth when they were working on "Enter Macbeth".

(And if we want to continue worrying about strict historical accuracy, they didn't have stone castles in 10th century Scotland, only wooden ones - and there's no way a wooden castle would have survived for a thousand years for Xanatos to move to the top of the Eyrie Building.)

Todd Jensen

Demonskrye> I agree about saving the Kyoshi Warriors for the sequal. Other then simply keeping the number of characters down to resonable level, giving Sokka two different love interests in the same movie would make him look like a horndog and undermine the whole Yue tragedy.

I don't know jack about film making but if it was me directing these movies I'd probably start writing the script for Book Three first. Then I'd work my way backwards and ask "okay what are the bare essential characters, concepts and background I need to set this up?"

Either that or I just hire Peter Jackson to direct it.

Algernon

Sorry for the double post, but..

Rebel> I'd take the basics of the world and where everyone is at the start of the series as given. There are four different nations, each with some people who can "bend" elements. The Fire Nation in on the offensive and has been for decades. Katara and Sokka are with the rest of the Southern Water Tribe while the warriors are away. Zuko is in exile, travelling the world with his uncle Iroh in search of something that can win his father's favor back.

Past that, I'd begin with what I see as the most important events of season one, the things that are absolutely essential to the overall story:

* Katara and Sokka discover Aang and Appa frozen in the iceberg. - You'd have to work pretty hard to cut this element from the story.
* Aang learns that he is the last surviving airbender. - This is important both to cement the idea that Aang is the only person who can possibly be the avatar and to give Aang the temptation to go down the path he ultimately doesn't: using his power to get revenge on the Fire Nation.
* Zuko becomes aware that the avatar has appeared and pursues him, hoping to restore his honor by capturing the avatar. - This is crucial to who Zuko is and his role as an antagonist through most of the series.
* Aang learns - or is well on the way to learning - waterbending. - This is an adaptation of the season called "Water" and ir sets up that part of the subsequent film will be Aang learning the remaining two bending styles.
* The Siege of the North - It's the climax of the season and a major victory for our heroes. It's an ideal ending for the movie that also works for the "success-defeat-success" formula you see in the climaxes of the three seasons of the show and a lot of film trilogies, like the original Star Wars movies.

That's the foundation. Of course I would like to include additional elements, such as Aang's growing feelings for Katara, Aang meeting Avatar Roku, and Momo. But those couple of key points are what absolutely has to be addressed. Everything else is gravy.

One complaint from fans that I've heard a few times from fans that I don't feel is a huge deal is that the Kyoshi warriors aren't in the movie. I like the Kyoshi warriors plenty and I might feel just as upset if I saw the movie and felt like it was wasting time that could have been spent introducing them. But I do understand that something has to be cut and I can understand why it would be that. I think one of the ways I would make time to adequately deal with the key points of the first movie would be to save just about everything to do with the Earth Kingdom for movie 2. I'd mention it, and maybe even have a few people from the Earth Kingdom show up, so it's not coming out of nowhere in the sequel. I just wouldn't have the characters go there unless they absolutely had to. I think you can still get a lot out of Sokka dealing with his fears of losing Suki if he meets her for the first time after Yue's death rather than before. Towards the beginning of movie 2, Aang could just say "I used to know this earthbender named Bumi. Let's go see if he's still around and if he can teach me earthbending." And then Bumi is intriduced, already a prisoner of the Fire Nation, and points Aang in the vague direction of his future earthbending teacher.

That said, if there are people from the Earth Kingdom in the movie and it would make sense for them to be there, I doubt it would have hurt Shyamalan to have a few Kyoshi warriors there. It's not like they require an in-depth explanation. If I couldn't fit a character into the main story of the movie, I would at least look for a way to acknowledge them if at all possible. Maybe i wouldn't have time to fully address the Freedom Fighters, but they would definitely walk by in the background of a scene or two.

That's off the top of my head, anyway.

Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Algernon> Thanks for the heads-up on that. You can see why I would have thought that was the case, but I certainly don't want to go around repeating incorrect information.
Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Antiyonder> The thing about the pronounciation that really annoys me is the BS M. Night uses to justify it. "But 'Ohng' is how it's really pronounced in Chinese." Yeah that might be a valid argument if you had some actual Chinese people in the cast instead of loading up on WASPs.

As for Earthbender prison it's not that big of a plot hole when you consider how pathicically crippled movie Earthbenders are. "look out! There's a medium sized rock slowly levitating towards us!"

Algernon

Since the discussion is continued/restarted, I'm going to repost my comments, and since people aren't using Spoiler warnings, I'll forgo them this time:

1. Not much light moments to balance out the serious moments.

2. Minor one, but annoying. Getting the name pronouncings wrong.

3. Firebenders having to bring fire with them. By giving them the ability to create fire, the cartoon made it all the more plausible that they could have an edge over the other nations. I mean if facing an army of Waterbenders, having a limited amount of fire is a liability.

4. Aside from a brief mention on why Zuko got his scar, we barely see him doing anything that makes him a noble antagonist. In Book One we got:

- The Return: Zuko agrees to leave The Water Tribe alone if Aang surrenders, to which he honors his agreement, even when Aang escapes.

- The Spirit World: He stops his hunt for Aang to save Iroh from some Earth Kingdom Soldiers.

- The Storm: He comes to his senses to help his crew.

- The Siege of The North Part 2: Offers his hand to save Zhao from death.

But we don't see much or any of that for that matter in the movie.

5. Since they clearly are on ground rather than a prison ship, the Earthbenders shouldn't have any trouble with the Fire Nation soldiers.

Antiyonder

Sorry for the double post meant to include this link...

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar%3A_Legend_of_Korra

Algernon

Demonskrye> Much as I hate to defend this atrocity, the movie isn't actually set in a post-apocalyptic future. I don't know where Ebert got that idea.

On the plus side, the studio isn't going to let M. night start on Last Airbender 2 until the first one makes at least 280 million dollars. With luck we can stop this madness going any further. On the double plus side, Michael Dante DiMartino and Brian Konietsko are working on a new Avatar animated project, lets just hope the poor preformance of M. Night's film doesn't hurt it's chances.

Algernon

The Last Airbender> I haven't seen the movie, nor do I intend to, so please take my comments with a grain of salt.

From what I've been reading, Shyamalan being too much of a fan and wanting to do the entire first season is only half the problem at most. The picture I'm getting is that Shyamalan couldn't seen the forrest for the trees; that he got so caught up in the impossible task of cramming over seven hours of TV series episode into less than two hours of film that he was no longer paying attention to what made the series work in the first place. In other words, Shyamalan was behaving like too much of a fan in the worst possible ways and not enough of one in areas where he should have been putting his understanding of the series to use.

Between seeing fan and non-fan reactions, Shyamalan seems to have adapted the material in such a way as to piss everyone off. It's as if he's trying to cram the entire show into less than one third the time, yet still manages to cut enough material that the fans aren't happy. Instead of including absolutely everything from the show or cutting it down to make a satisfying narrative that fits within the running time, Shyamalan appears to have found a middle ground that leaves fans angry and everyone else confused.

Trying to put everything from the first season of the show into the first movie does sound like something a fan would do, which is why it's so baffling when Shyamalan does things that no fan of the series would ever do. I'm going to leave the issue of ethnicity aside for now as I've discussed it at length before. But mispronouncing Sokka's name? Not something a fan would do. Taking out all the lightness and humor out? Not something a fan would do. Adding in details that aren't in the show and actually make things more confusing? (The story being set in the future explains what now?) Not something a fan would do.

I think Algernon's suggestion is a good one. Rather than trying take on the whole first season, Shyamalan probably would have been better off stripping the concept down to its bare bones and seeing what kind of complete story (with an opening for a sequel) he could tell in the time he had, using details from the show where appropriate. Tying this in to Gargoyles for just a minute, I'd rather see a Gargoyles movie that tells a largely new story with the same basic concepts and characters than a retalling of "Awakening" that felt rushed or less enjoyable than the original five-parter. I'm just hesitant to say whether Shyamalan ran into trouble because he wanted to be completely faithful to the source material whether or not it worked as a movie, or he just wanted to make his Big Serious Fantasy Martial Arts Epic, source material be damned.

Either way, it's not a movie I am interested in seeing.

Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

Jurgan> Gah. That's what happens when I try to goof around. I should have just gone with the natural log of e^9; it's been a while since I dealt with derivatives, after all. Ah well, I'm more a biology than mathematics background anyway.
Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

I haven't seen The Last Airbender, and I don't think I'm going to. I trust Roger Ebert when it comes to movies, and he gave it one star. I trust my brother too, and he told me it was just awful. So, despite how excited I was initially about this movie, I don't think I'm going to bother.


If you guys were in charge of making a movie about "Avatar", what would you have chosen to put in the first film? What would you have chosen to leave out?

Rebel

"The saddest part about Airbender is that Shyamalan is completely ignoring the criticism- he really seems to think that he's making a great trilogy that will be fondly remembered. When Shyamalan first appeared in Hollywood, people thought he was the next Alfred Hitchcock. Now, though, I think he's shaping up to be the next George Lucas- he made a few great movies early in his career, but let fame go to his head, and now thinks he can do no wrong even when he produces monumental stinkers. Sad, really."

Of course Lucas can get away with that crud because he basically signs his own checks, as awful as the Star Wars prequals and Cystal Skull were, they still made mountain loads of cash. Last Airbender on the other hand, with it's huge buget and less then stellar preformance, will probably struggle to make even a modest profit. And unlike George Lucas, M. night has aa studio and producers to answer to.

You know I wonder how much of the plot and pacing problems with this movie were due to M. Night trying to condense twenty episodes worth of story into a single hour and a half? Maybe if he had just taken the basic premise of Aang, Katara and Sokka being chased around by Zuko and built a whole new story around that we would have got a more satisfying experience. As it stands the movie seems to be structured more like a 90 minute clip show.

Algernon

Anachronisms> Picking up on last week's discussion, I think it's also important to remember that Demona and Macbeth's story was created and written in reverse chronological order. The character was named "Demona" before the script for "Awakening, Part One" was even written. Macbeth was revealed to be responsible for naming Demona several episodes later, but Macbeth's history and how he came to give Demona her name hadn't been pinned down yet. It was only later that it was decided that Macbeth was the actual historical King Macbeth of Scotland and that he first met Demona in the 11th century. Assuming anyone working on the show was even aware that the word "demon" and the phrase" fight like a demon" might not have been in a typical 11th century Scotsman's vocabulary, it would have been tough to work around it and likely not worthwhile to kill the whole idea of Macbeth being the real Macbeth because it would require the anachronistic use of one word, however important that word may have been.
Demonskrye - [<---The Last Airbender at The Ink and Pixel Club]

"The derivative of the natural log of 1/(e^9)"

ln {1/(e^9)} = ln {e^(-9)} = -9, and of course the derivative of a constant is 0. So you just claimed position zero. Looks like I win this round- better luck next week.

We started discussing Last Airbender. As a fan of the show, I thought I should see it for myself and tried to avoid hearing anything about it ahead of time. Some negative word-of-mouth was unavoidable, but I tried to give it a fair shot. It really didn't work, though. The movie looked gorgeous- I especially liked the set design in the water tribe cities- but the characters were flat as cardboard.

The problems probably stemmed from Shyamalan being too much of a fan and trying to fit in too much of the show. Even with all that was cut out, it still felt like the whole movie was rushing from scene to scene. As a result, none of the characters ever got a chance to just talk like human beings. Practically every line of dialogue existed solely as exposition, so none of the characters got a chance to develop personalities. They simply recited lines that explained what was going on. The most glaring example is that Sokka didn't tell a single joke in the entire movie. Sokka in the show is hilarious- I don't know who this "Soak-uh" is, but he's not any character I recognize. Same with Aang- while he takes his responsibility seriously, he still acts like a fun-loving kid most of the time. In the movie, he was always serious. Katara had very little function, and Sokka's relationship with Yue was given so little time that we had nothing to care about. The only characters who were even close to what they should be were Iroh and Zuko, but that wasn't enough to save the movie. As for Zhao, Aasif Mandvi was fairly good (and Jericho proves he can do more than just comedy), but, again, there wasn't enough time to really develop him. In the show, over the course of twenty episodes he gradually went from contempt for Zuko as utterly insignificant to outright hatred for the traitor, mixed in with jealousy over the knowledge that Zuko was more honorable and a better fighter than he. In the movie, he just acts like a jerk to Zuko from the beginning, with no real reason apparent. I just didn't care about him. There was almost no one in the movie to care about, which is what doomed it.

The saddest part about Airbender is that Shyamalan is completely ignoring the criticism- he really seems to think that he's making a great trilogy that will be fondly remembered. When Shyamalan first appeared in Hollywood, people thought he was the next Alfred Hitchcock. Now, though, I think he's shaping up to be the next George Lucas- he made a few great movies early in his career, but let fame go to his head, and now thinks he can do no wrong even when he produces monumental stinkers. Sad, really.

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

Brainiac> I'm assuming that calculates out to 9, so I'll finish it off with 10.
Phil - [p1anderson at go dot com]

Jurgan> If you insist.

The derivative of the natural log of 1/(e^9). I could make it more complicated, but that'd just be overkill.

Brainiac - [OSUBrainiac at gmail dot com]
There is balance in all things. Live in symmetry with the world around you. If you must blow things up and steal from those around you, THAT'S WHAT RPGS ARE FOR!

8TH!
Matt - [ewoks11 at hotmail dot com]
"For science, which, as my associate Fang indicated, must move ever forward. Plus there's the money... and I do love the drama!" -Sevarius, 'Louse'

7th
VickyUK - [vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]

Sixth!!
Phoenician
"The suspense is terrible, I hope it lasts" -- Willy Wonka

5th
mage_cat - [mage_cat14 at yahoo dot com]

Common log(10,000)

Out-math geek me this time, Brainiac!

Jurgan - [jurgan6 at yahoo dot com]

(3)Three or maybe (4)Four. Depends on how dead the room is.
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]

Second~!!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>T.T)> Homework...

First!
Greg Bishansky