Comments for the week ending February 10, 2003

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I liked Batman Beyond a lot. I think most of your complaints about Terry simply stem from the fact that he doesn't live up to Bruce Wayne. But Bruce was awesome, you can't expect some adolecent kid to act like a severly traumatized, slightly mad billionaire. Terry struck me as more of a Peter Partner type of character. I think if you evaluate him on his own merit instead of comparing him to Bruce, you would come to like him too.
Jimmy
Sunday, February 9, 2003 10:34:29 PM
IP: 199.74.80.183

AIRWALKER - Well, I don't think that "X-Men: Evolution" is all that bad (in fact, I'm quite fond of it), but I do agree with you about Terry in "Batman Beyond"; he was too surly for my taste. (And I didn't find his complaints over what the Batman job was doing to the rest of his life all that sympathetic, since, after all, he'd willingly accepted the role - I'd rather have liked to see Bruce say to him "You should have thought about the impact that your job would make upon your social life before you took it.") On the other hand, I liked the series' portrayal of the elderly Bruce Wayne; he struck me as having, in some ways, even more presence in "Batman Beyond" than in the original cartoon.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, February 9, 2003 06:28:21 PM
IP: 63.208.43.81

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury> By "Recently" I mean since about 1998-1999 and on. There have been a couple of good cartoons recently; Reboot, Beast Wars, Family Guy, King of the Hill, Voltron: the third demension, Simpsons (Untill Homer's voice went through a change. Then they started to slide, around season 10 or eleven,) and South Park (If your into that, it's NOT for everyone.)

From 1980 on there have been some GREAT shows.

He-Man, She-Ra, Transformers, Visionaries, Voltron, The Real Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters, Denver the Last Dinosaur, Sabre Rider, Duck Tales, Gummie Bears, Chip & Dale, Tale Spin, Dark Wing Duck, "Gargolyes" (of course), Mighty Max, Captain Planet, Beast Wars, Pokemon, and the Original Ninja Turtles.

Everyone has their "Favs". Nowadays you can't find shows with as much quality.

BTW) On advice from a friend, I am changing my nick-name to Battlebeast3. (I'm still the same person.)

Later~
Battlebeast3 / Pyro X
CanadaSunday, February 9, 2003 05:06:56 PM
IP: 205.206.79.107

TODD - You wrote: [Well, I doubt that Disney would have dared handle Zeus's philanderings in one of its regular animated films, so I wasn't too shocked over the change there.]

That they changed the entire Zeus/Hera/Hercules relationship around didn't shock me; I would have been more suprised if they had stayed closer to the original myth. Still even expecting such a change, I wasn't crazy about it and they did lose me a little bit with it.


BLAQTHOURNE - You wrote: [What do you consider "recent"? Are you talking since 1990? In the last 5 years? What's current?]

I figured that the definition of "recent" is pretty much the period from the end of GARGOYLES; basically 1997 up which would be a little bit of a slump period in domestic animation.

You wrote: [For some hilarious bits, check out the Aqua Teen Hunger Force on Adult Swim.]

Personally I prefered HARVEY BIRDMAN or SEALAB 2021 over ATHF; and I've been meaning to start watching the OBLONGS.


SILVERBOLT - You wrote: [some of the cartoons these days are good like Batman of the future and X-Men evolution]

BATMAN BEYOND had its moments but I didn't like it much; Terry got on my nerves too much and I didn't like how the show kept trying to hype him as being THE TRUE successor to the original Batman. And as for X-MEN EVOLUTION all that show was good for was in showing how the X-Men concept has morphed over the years into basically just a glorified cult.

You wrote: [but there are some shows which I wished weren't on... or they got better scrip writers.]

Yeah; there are some shows that I'd love to not see on the air these days. Most of the FOXBOX anime imports are terrible or at in the best cases, very uninspiring.


MATT - You wrote: [did anyone else notice that the Ask Greg asking question feature is shut down? now thats progress...]

It is progress although its still only half the battle. Something has to be done about the existing backlog.
Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Sunday, February 9, 2003 03:08:19 PM
IP: 12.88.165.11

B&CF> For animation news, I check out www.awn.com. DVD reviews are a little hard to find. I sometimes sift through www.ign.com. They used to have a premo animation section, but the movie section is still informative.
Taleweaver - [~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~]
Sunday, February 9, 2003 01:57:17 PM
IP: 24.205.117.85

** Warning - minor TMNT spoilers **

I checked out the new TMNT this morning (the local affiliate's got it airing on Sundays here). The animation style is a lot more like "Batman" and "Gargoyles" this time around. I don't really have much more to say about it yet, though. The only glimpse we got of April O'Neil and Baxter Stockman was in the teaser for next week's episode. After all the hype it's been getting from Fox, it kind of gets me thinking they might have been better off doing a multi-part premiere similar to how "Gargoyles" began, just to give the viewers a bit more of an incentive to tune in next week. Especially since this first episode really didn't have much at all in the way of a plot.

The biggest thing the new TMNT has going for it: It's one of the only shows in the "Fox Box" that isn't a bizzare, badly dubbed Japanese anime. I'm sincerely regretting having sat through the last five minutes of "Ultimate Muscle" now as I waited to start the VCR for "Turtles." I think I lost some brain cells just listening to the horrible German accents... and when the one fighter gave his battle cry of "Weiner power!" I nearly lost it. I'm sorry... anime and pro wrestling were just NOT meant to ever be together.

And was it just me, or did the commercials during "Turtles" for the other "Fox Box" shows seem to take up more running time than the actual episode itself?

** End Spoilers **

Patrick Toman
Sunday, February 9, 2003 12:51:04 PM
IP: 67.38.241.45

Voice poll: It just might be me , but what about Gilbert Godfree ?!?. Okok so I was kidding but seroiusly what about John Lithgow I always liked his voice, its different from everyone elses and yet isnt scary, he's been on broadway, movies (shrek),tv shows, and he sings. with alot of actors I hear thier voices and sometimes there isnt that feeling of life but I always hear the life in his voice no matter what he does. or it could just be me.
Babs
Philly
Sunday, February 9, 2003 11:56:32 AM
IP: 68.83.228.122

hey! did anyone else notice that the Ask Greg asking question feature is shut down? now thats progress...
matt
Sunday, February 9, 2003 10:40:08 AM
IP: 216.178.8.75

warrioress> When I checked this fact out my mouth dropped, I had no idea it was the same person who played Biff in back to the future, I hardly recognised the voice!

In other stuff I would would consider some of the cartoons these days are good like Batman of the future and X-Men evolution but there are some shows which I wished weren't on... or they got better scrip writers. Power Rangers is a prime example of this, in the original (and the best!) the show was perfect and they had the correct type of people who actually were believable, but after them it got crap (though wildforce does have its moments). Though come to think about it I can't help but notice that so many building were smashed by the monsters and the zords alike that makes you wonder if there were any people in them, and that they keep rebuilding the city until the next episode where it gets smashed up again.
Silverbolt
Sunday, February 9, 2003 06:28:19 AM
IP: 81.131.175.106

Re: Pyro X: "I haven't seen a Cartoon 'RECENTLY' that was good enough to be called 'GREAT' or even 'Good.'"

What do you consider "recent"? Are you talking since 1990? In the last 5 years? What's current? I assume you're talking non-Japanese; and since you included Beast Wars, you're considering productions from outside the US.
Some non-Japanese cartoons that I consider recent and very good are (alphabetically): Batman TAS, Beast Wars (pre-Beast Machines), Gargoyles, Mighty Max, The Tick, and War Planets (Shadow Raiders in Canada).
For some hilarious bits, check out the Aqua Teen Hunger Force on Adult Swim.

Lord Sloth> I DID credit Tony Jay with voicing Shere Khan.

For those who added John Rhys-Davies to my "Best Voice poll", I'd say if you include him, you'd have to include Sean Connery.

Anyone know of a web site which is pretty much dedicated to news about animation (not just anime) being released on DVD? I used to use DVDAnimania, but that site hasn't been updated since March 2002.
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Sunday, February 9, 2003 01:27:21 AM
IP: 67.74.149.218

Babs- you might be interested to know that Tom Wilson also played Biff Tannen(and various other Biff Tannen relatives/ancestors, creditted as Thomas F. Wilson
) in the Back to the Future trilogy. :-)
warrioress
Saturday, February 8, 2003 11:14:23 PM
IP: 66.142.52.252

Not sure how many ppl have looked at yesterdays Greg's Latest Responses, but he was saying that the voice of Matt Bluestone is now on the Tv show Ed, and well I don't watch that tv show, but I'm gald to see the face that goes with the drawing.
Happy hearts to everyone :)
Babs
Philly, Pa
Saturday, February 8, 2003 10:31:52 PM
IP: 68.83.228.122

Thanks for informing me on April's background in the comics; my knowledge about the TMNT came exclusively from the original cartoon, and I'd never read the comics that preceded it. So that would mean that the new cartoon is based more on the original comics, then.

Re Hercules: Well, I doubt that Disney would have dared handle Zeus's philanderings in one of its regular animated films, so I wasn't too shocked over the change there. (One of the other big distortions was portraying Hades as a villain - in the original myths, he was loyal to Zeus but pretty much kept to himself except when out abducting Persephone - but he made a fun villain, so I won't complain there). I still remember with a smile some really fun lines from the animated series, such as when Zeus is showing a singular lack of enthusiasm after he and the rest of the Olympian gods have been invited to a pool party at Hades' palace, and desperately asks Hera "Don't we have a bridge game with Odin and Frigga that night?"
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, February 8, 2003 07:04:43 PM
IP: 65.57.62.212

Todd > Re: TMNT - But that's what April's backstory was in the comic book... so that's not really a valid analogy. With TMNT, the comic came first and the first animated series took many creative liberties with the characters. For example, in the comics, Baxter Stockman was African American, and Casey Jones was a much deeper character than the one-dimensional Dirty Harry he was in the cartoon.

With "Gargoyles" on the other hand... the animated series came first, and then the comic books came along and branched off into their own universe.
Partrick Toman
Saturday, February 8, 2003 05:45:03 PM
IP: 67.38.241.45

Think of the steel clan models as a software thing. You get an Nissan Sentra in 2000 and it has certain features, then you get one a year later and it may have some new upgraded features, but it's still a Sentra. Wheras if you got an Altima, it would be an entirely different car. It isn't a perfect example but, an upgrade to an existing model doesn't qualify as a new model. A new model would constitute redesigning the chassis and everything from the ground up.
Jimmy
Saturday, February 8, 2003 03:11:36 PM
IP: 199.74.80.183

PATRICK - You wrote: [It gets old seeing people complain that "Gargoyles" is doomed to never be revived just because the last sappy episode of the last sub-par season tied everything up with a nice happy finale.]

I think GARGOYLES has a good chance of revival despite TGC and that the if anything stands in the way of a revival, it is less the damage that TGC did but more of where/when exactly to have any revival air. TGC can be dealt with in a variety of ways - from ignoring it to writing it out to actually incorporating and using it. That wouldn't be a problem - the real question is where/when to put any revival?

Saturday Morning is an option but not a very attractive one - I don't think that a dramatic series, a series with the tone that GARGOYLES had would be a good fit for any Saturday Morning time period. (I remember when the series originally aired; in NYC it would start up at 4:30 which in the winter was about the time of sunset. That helped set the mood a bit for the series. When TGC was on, besides the story itself a problem was getting in the mood to watch it. It didn't feel right on Saturday Morning. Honestly I missed seeing THE JOURNEY the very first time it aired on TV because it was on Saturday Morning - so much crap has been put in that time period that I just altogether stopped turning on the TV at that time.) I'm not sure it could work on the ABCDisney Saturday Morning block.

Beyond that there aren't that many places to put a revival; Cartoon Network isn't really an option since I doubt Disney will allow them to air it. And that only really leaves the Disney Channel and Toon Disney which don't seem ready for a dramatic animated series at this point.

You wrote: [This is the same studio, remember, that managed to morph "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" into a happy story (where Esmeralda and Quasimodo did NOT die) and then produced a sequel to it, to boot.]

Please don't remind me of that. That horror is up there with Pocahantaus.

(Although we could say that they sort of, in a Disney sort of way, stayed true to some of the story by not lapsing into the Disney formula; Quasimodo didn't morph into a good looking Prince, Esmeralda didn't fall in love with him, and they didn't get married and live happily ever after. But still I'll be kind and just say it wasn't one of their greatest animated features and leave it at that; I don't want to start cursing after all. :-) )


TODD - You wrote: [I know that I very much enjoyed the series they did based on their "Hercules" movie]

I enjoyed the TV series too. The HERCULES series was a prime example of Disney taking a lemon of a movie and making lemonade with the TV series. It wasn't so much that the movie was horrible; it had some good points that I enjoyed but they just lost me from the first minute when they completely cleaned up the mythology to make Hera and Zeus a loving couple and have Hercules be their kid.

You wrote: [Look at how often it's gotten in Demona's way in the original series.]

Its not so much her desire for revenge that has made her do stupid things as much as it is her temper and lack of control over it at important moments. She would have been much more successful in many of her plans if she had stayed as calm and collected as she tries to be when she isn't angry. (LONG WAY TO MORNING is a prime example; she would have won if she hadn't taken to using her rifle as a club which gave Hudson those precious few minutes until the sun rose.)

You wrote: ["He-Man" and "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" were both very popular and very well-known when they were airing. "Gargoyles" never reached the same "household name" status]

That is a good point but still not being a household name hasn't exactly stopped other series from being revived in the past; GHOSTBUSTERS had a second series for example. The thing is mainly in getting (or keeping) people interested and having someone in the company that owns rights think they can still wring some money out of the property. The people behind the TURTLES revival think that they can still squeeze blood from a rock and make some money so they started a new series up.

You wrote: [April isn't a news reporter in this version, but starts off as a lab assistant to Dr. Stockman, and after she finds out about his being a villain, leaves to open an antique shop.]

I think thats how things were in the original comic book but its been a while so I can't really say. I do know that in the first movie April did own and operate part time an antique shop that she happened to live over. I think that it was the first TURTLES series that took a lot of liberties with the source material and this version is supposed to be closer to the original source but considering how long ago I read the comics and that I haven't seen any of the new series I can't say for sure.


SHOGUN RAPTOR - You wrote: [I've already seen all of excel saga]

My point in mentioning EXCEL SAGA is that in that specific episode they touch on the main difference in how Anime and American Animation are seen; American Cartoons are all seen as either Superhero stories or Disneyfied Comedy series. And for the most part that is a true observation. Most series that have a storyline of any sort these days tend to be dubbed Anime. American Animation isn't into that at this moment. (That could be changing; I haven't been watching recently and I've heard the new TURTLES series is going to be dark and more true to the comic material.)

You wrote: [it seems for the most part the quality of western animation has been in steady decline]

The thing to remember is that domestic animation tends to work in cycles; and GARGOYLES was the first attempt at a sort of domestic "anime" - a dramatic animated series rather than just DARKWING DUCK without the Ducks. Things will improve eventually - I just hope that there will be someplace on TV where that improvement can be shown besides Saturday Morning. Because its a time period that lots of young people are going to watch its going to have stricter limits than any other time and place on television for whatever it is showing.


MATT - You wrote: [Seems to me that besides Xanatos' suit there were three versions of Steel Clan, the ones used in Awakening which were a bit oo easy to destroy, the ones upgraded in The Edge which were smarter, tougher and electrified, and then the Iron Clan from The Gathering.]

I think that Greg is counting the AWAKENING Steel Clan and the Steel Clan used in THE EDGE as one model. In a way it is sort of the same model, just that THE EDGE version has a defensive electric shock ability added in. Its probably not as radically different from the original AWAKENING Steel Clan as we might think.

(If we really want to nitpick then we could say that there is another version of the Steel Clan too - in POSSESSION we have Steel Clan robots with lazer rifle capability from both arms rather than just the traditional right arm. Its probably less a new version as much as it is a slight upgrade which wouldn't have to be counted as a seperate version of the robot.)

You wrote: [didn't Lex or (somebody) say in The Edge that they were tougher and had been upgraded since the first batch?]

Brooklyn mentioned in THE EDGE that the robots they fighting were tougher than the last batch of Steel Clan they had faced. Some of that had to do with them dealing with Xanatos in an exo-frame (as they mention outright that the Red "Robot" was much harder to deal with in particular) but some of that was probably the new defensive features the robots had added on. Otherwise they probably weren't that much different than the first batch.

I think that Greg is counting the Steel Clan the way Pyro X suggested - as one model with different upgrade versions and with the Iron Clan as a seperate model. So the AWAKENINGS version was 1.1 and THE EDGE version is 1.2 and if the POSSESSION version is another improvement then it is 1.3 . The only way it could move to version 2 is if it were to be radically altered in look and ability. If they started using a Xanatos model (ala FUTURE TENSE) then that could be a version 2.0 . Or if it were a transformer then it could be version 2.0 .
Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Saturday, February 8, 2003 02:52:29 PM
IP: 12.88.197.58

Todd Jensen> Actually in the original Mirage Comics, April was Baxter's lab assistant. It was only in the cartoon and movie that they made her a reporter.
Answer
Saturday, February 8, 2003 01:49:38 PM
IP: 216.170.210.200

Matt>>didn't Lex or (somebody) say in The Edge that they were tougher and had been upgraded since the first batch?<<
I also read Greg's answer to the question about the steel clan and I think you're right. I have the episode "The Edge" and I almost 100% sure that Brooklyn DID say the robots were 'a lot toughter than the last batch they fought' (my sister just read this and remembers the same thing). So, maybe Greg forgot about that or he's counting the robots clans differently thanm we are.
Enigma
Saturday, February 8, 2003 10:41:02 AM
IP: 24.118.156.5

I took a little peek this morning at Toon Zone and discovered, in the process, that in the new "Turtles" cartoon:

* SPOILERS AHEAD *

April isn't a news reporter in this version, but starts off as a lab assistant to Dr. Stockman, and after she finds out about his being a villain, leaves to open an antique shop. That certainly raised my eyebrows a little - it'd be almost like doing a remake of "Gargoyles" where Elisa's in a different line of work than police detective.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, February 8, 2003 07:23:42 AM
IP: 65.57.63.33

Todd> Re: Buffy link
*whimpers* Willow is so adorable, and the library... argh. It looks so cool. Felt sorry for Giles, though. He came out kinda funny-looking. Bastards. Dammit.

Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Saturday, February 8, 2003 01:00:09 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

A little PSA for anyone else interested in checking out the new "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" animated series. Click my name to find out what local affiliate in your area is carrying the new "Fox Box" shows. It may NOT be the same channel that carries the regular Fox programming. I was scanning the Saturday morning TV listings in vain until I checked and found out that here, the "Fox Box" Saturday line up will actually be running on Sunday mornings on the same channel that carries the WB at night.

So now I have a reason to wake up before noon on a Sunday. I can't remember the last time that's happened.
Patrick Toman
Friday, February 7, 2003 07:39:09 PM
IP: 67.38.241.45

When you bring the Gargoyles back, will you keep the sam format as pre-Goliath Chronicles episodes,or will you revamp it to match now? And when do you think you will bring it back? I loved the show and thought all the episodes were a work of art.
Sha - [Shalovem@yahoo.com]
Friday, February 7, 2003 11:14:24 AM
IP: 68.82.82.232

*Reads Gaygoyle's post. Is giddy with delight on the DVD news*

It's NOT a dream, Toto! It's NOT a dream!!!

**jumps for joy**

Matt> My interpretation of Greg's answer is that There are two "forms" or Steel Clan robots. The basic versions, and the iron versions. I think he means that there are versions (4.2 or 3.14 or 7.0) like the Coyote robot that change each time. (BTW, I forget what version Coyote was up to.)

During the time between "Edge" and the next time we see them, Steel Clan 'bots had minor modifacations, like adding electricity. Thus, The first Steel Clan 'bots we see are Version 1.1 and the next are version 1.2. Only when you go to version 2.0 does the body form change. (It's like AOL 7.0 and 7.1... what's the difference? The tool bar is one millimeter lower in 7.1.)


?> I know "The" is a word, but a lot of people omit it from alphabetical listings and such... like "Price, The" comes before "Shadows of the past."

I know that Greg liked to use titles with one word. Do you suppose that when naming ep's with The in them ("The Edge", "The Price") that he considered them two word titles?


Later~
Pyro X
CanadaFriday, February 7, 2003 10:20:42 AM
IP: 199.185.68.2

anyone else wonder about Greg's recently answered question about the Steel Clan? seems to me that besides Xanatos' suit there were three versions of Steel Clan, the ones used in Awakening which were a bit oo easy to destroy, the ones upgraded in The Edge which were smarter, tougher and electrified, and then the Iron Clan from The Gathering. i don't want to tell Greg hes wrong, but i thought this had already been clarified by him... am i wrong? didn't Lex or (somebody) say in The Edge that they were tougher and had been upgraded since the first batch?
matt
Friday, February 7, 2003 09:16:50 AM
IP: 216.178.8.78

that last post was mine
shogun raptor
Thursday, February 6, 2003 11:37:13 PM
IP: 209.86.191.166

Airwalker> I was speaking in terms of domestic animation, I've already seen all of excel saga, my lament is that it seems for the most part the quality of western animation has been in steady decline
Anonymous
Thursday, February 6, 2003 11:36:41 PM
IP: 209.86.191.166

Unfortunately, the Buffy cartoon is still dead. We haven't received any new information on it at Toon Zone. Some people on the boards were talking about it, but it was just a several months old thread that got bumped up due to someone posting about the concept art that was found.
William C. Maune - [William.Maune@ToonZone.net]
Columbia, Missouri, 65201
Thursday, February 6, 2003 11:23:58 PM
IP: 12.216.228.40

ANSWER - Really? The last that I'd heard about it (about a month or two ago) was that Joss Whedon had called the project off because he couldn't find a station to air it on. Has that changed in the last few weeks?
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, February 6, 2003 10:19:13 PM
IP: 67.28.93.59

Todd Jensen> The B:TVS animated series is going to be shown next season from what the people at the toonzone are saying.
The Answer
Thursday, February 6, 2003 10:02:12 PM
IP: 216.170.210.200

Found another interesting little link, this one to a site that had some visuals for the sadly-never-made Buffy animated series - it even has character designs for the cast (Buffy, Giles, Willow, Xander, Angel, Cordelia, Joyce, Dawn, Principal Snyder, and a few Hellmouth-critters). After seeing this one, I definitely was sorry that the series was never made.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, February 6, 2003 06:51:36 PM
IP: 63.208.62.94

Although I wish we knew something, we at Toon Zone don't know any more than what you guys do. The information in our original story came straight from these forums, the Ask Greg FAQ and Gargoyles News Story. Check the link if you want to see it. Gargoyles seems to actually be fairly big at Toon Zone. While unfortunately there isn't much to report, when there is it story it tends to get a higher than average number of hits.
William C. Maune - [William.Maune@ToonZone.net]
Columbia, Missouri, USA
Thursday, February 6, 2003 03:49:54 PM
IP: 12.216.228.40

Pyro X> No, Greg sated quite clearly at G2002 that the DVD is due out in 2003. There were not other specifics as to its release that were given.

Ohhhh man I can't wait!! :D:D
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Thursday, February 6, 2003 02:23:46 PM
IP: 129.120.35.51

Hmmmm>

Todd's Link> Hmmm... in the article, it says that "As previously reported by toon Zone..." That the Garg DVD is slated for release this year. Do they know something we don't, or is it just HOPE?

Later~
Pyro X
CanadaThursday, February 6, 2003 09:59:25 AM
IP: 199.185.68.2

Sorry for the double post, but:

PATRICK - One point about "reviving old cartoon series": "He-Man" and "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" were both very popular and very well-known when they were airing. "Gargoyles" never reached the same "household name" status that they did; the equivalent of the two above cartoons in terms of popularity and name recognition was "Power Rangers" (which still shows the endurance and near-impossibility to kill of a cockroach).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, February 6, 2003 07:20:34 AM
IP: 65.57.63.31

AIRWALKER - Re the "sequels" to Disney animated movies being more acceptable when they're series rather than direct-to-video releases; I think that you've got a good point there. I know that I very much enjoyed the series they did based on their "Hercules" movie - it had a lot of fun take-offs on Greek mythology (and even a few on Greek history that they somehow blended in, if somewhat anachronistically - such as Pericles being the leader of Athens, the feud between Athens and Sparta - tied in here with Greek myth in the form of the feud between Athena and Ares - and things like that).

Re "Angels in the Night": I certainly agree that it had a lot of plot-holes in it (the Quarrymen's strategy showing awareness that gargoyles protect the innocent, Castaway being stupid enough to attack the passenger train to finish off Angela and Bronx even though they were already headed for a lifetime in captivity, Xanatos seriously believing that Goliath would agree to move to another city, etc.)

Then again, maybe Castaway's aforementioned stupidity isn't too much of a plothole; a hunger for revenge can make people do extremely foolish things. (Look at how often it's gotten in Demona's way in the original series).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, February 6, 2003 07:16:48 AM
IP: 65.57.63.31

Want proof that an animated series that's been off the air for many years can be resurrected and not necessarily feel obligated to encompass all that came before the first time around? Check out the new "He-Man" or click the link Warioress posted the other day and look at the character designs for the new "Ninja Turtles" that starts up this weekend.

It gets old seeing people complain that "Gargoyles" is doomed to never be revived just because the last sappy episode of the last sub-par season tied everything up with a nice happy finale. First of all, I'd hardly call the ending of "Angels in the Night" an absolute final "happily ever after." A couple hundred people suddenly decide that gargoyles aren't so bad after all... whoopee. There's 15 million people in NYC. And then there's still the huge mass of dangling plot threads that 13 episodes of TGC never even touched on.

If Disney wanted to green light a team to continue it from where it left off, they would still have plenty to work with. Heck, Disney does more with less all the time. This is the same studio, remember, that managed to morph "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" into a happy story (where Esmeralda and Quasimodo did NOT die) and then produced a sequel to it, to boot. So I think it's kind of silly to insist that "Goliath Chronicles" somehow stands in Disney's way to reviving "Gargoyles" if they wanted to. They don't have to be bound to it as canon any more than Eastman and Laird were bound to the old TMNT in creating the new one.
Patrick Toman
Thursday, February 6, 2003 07:06:54 AM
IP: 67.38.241.45

Hi; I intended to post something this week but I got a temp job and have had to work lots of overtime recently so I've hardly been online this week. Anyway onto the comments:


TODD - You wore: [Why is it that, while we aren't that enthusiastic about Disney doing sequels to its original animated theatrical movies, we want to see them bring back "Gargoyles"?]

I'm usually not enthusiastic about Disney sequels because in most cases the quality goes down or it doesn't have a decent story to make it worth the time and effort; in theory I don't mind them if they are entertaining or have a good story to tell. (And to be honest it tends to be more direct to video #2 sequels that we are critical of; many of the Disney properties have had TV series which are basically sequels and we don't seem as outspoken on them. They are almost seen as seperate entities because they don't have that all powerful "2" in the title.)

As for seeing GARGOYLES make a comeback, while we all want to see that, we tend to put some amendments to it - first we are talking about a series that is being done by Greg Weisman and his master plan. We aren't asking for a TGC comeback or even a continuation from that point. The idea is that if things go that way then we don't have to worry about any dip in quality. Besides usual Disney sequels tend to not really have a story to tell; GARGOYLES on the other hand was left with so many interesting plot threads open and so many possibilities untouched that its just crying out to have more done; its almost like an unfinished painting. Other Disney stories tend to be open and shut cases which leaves you satisfied leaving things the way they are, i.e. with an ending of some sort.

You wrote: [Wouldn't that be much the same thing (especially since they *did* give it the "happily ever after" ending in "Angels in the Night")?]

Even with ANGELS IN THE NIGHT (assuming that we are counting TGC in) the possibilities are still infinite considering how little TGC actually touched on. They obsessed on Quarrymen and basically left almost everything else out. And with all the plot holes and leaps in logic in TGC and ANGELS IN THE NIGHT, it just doesn't feel right as an ending - it doesn't satisfy. (Besides when most fans, especially around here, talk about a revival we don't tend to count TGC. Either its dismissed or its assumed that it isn't going to be counted as part of whatever continuity starts up once a series goes on the air.)

You wrote: [Unfortunately, I doubt that the Disney execs see it that way.]

Probably true; although there are probably many ways to work around it if TGC has to be kept in. Still if nobody mentions it, maybe they won't remember anything about it and TGC will all just go away. :-)

You wrote: [Of course, there's also still the question of where "Gargoyles" would air]

The only place is TOON DISNEY or THE DISNEY CHANNEL; they'd never give the show to Cartoon Network and there isn't a place for it on regular television.

You wrote: [Of course, there's always the possibility still of doing one of the spin-offs instead]

They could go that way; but then again the main series has name recognition going for it as an established property. Any spin-off has to establish itself in its own right and Disney might not want to take that risk at this point. (Personally I'd like to see at least one or two spinoffs get done together with the Main series on TV.)


SHOGUN RAPTOR - You wrote: [where's the kind of cartoon you wouldn't be ashamed to watch as an adult?]

These days shows like that are called Anime. (Watch EXCEL SAGA episode 17 to see the core difference between Anime and American Animation vividly illustrated.)


PYRO X - You wrote: [After Beastwars, Transformers sucked.]

BEAST MACHINES had potential but it was horribly timed; nothing happened in Season 1 and too much happened in Season 2. And on top of that the writers got too obsessed with the Nature/Tech plotline and blocked out everything else. The Rhinox/Tankor storyline had potential but got dumped after a few episodes. Silverbolt and Blackarachnia dragged on in S1 and boiled down to a few sideline comments in S2 in favor of Nightscream and the Noble/Savage which played itself out after five minutes. Even Rattrap getting a girlfriend got the short end in the plot; the last episode illustrated the core problem - it became all Primal vs Megatron with both of them being completely fanatical and insane and unreasonable with the rest of the cast not mattering.

(And Waspinator should have stayed Thrust; what they did in the last five minutes was really bad. I hated how they screwed him over so badly. Still Megatron in Primals S3 body was good; he used it way better than Primal every did.)
Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 10:56:42 PM
IP: 12.88.200.148

Woo hoo! I'm glad you liked it. I figured I'd do what I can to help promote Gargoyles. I work over at Toon Zone in the news department and some other areas. While I rarely post here, I read almost all you guys have to say over here. Keep up the great work!
William C. Maune - [William.Maune@ToonZone.net]
Columbia, Missouri, USA
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 10:09:38 PM
IP: 12.216.228.40

Found an article at "Toon Zone" about Greg Weisman having started answering questions at "Ask Greg" again; while we know that he's doing that once more, I thought that you all might be pleased to know that it's actually the subject of an article elsewhere. Click on my name for the link.

Re voice actors: Well, I've got to admit that I'm very impressed with Tony Jay (I even mentally voice-cast him for Madoc Morfryn in TGS). His voice practically says "sepulchral".
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 06:15:39 PM
IP: 67.75.178.95

I have to agree on the cartoon stance. Other than The Simpsons, which I will adore till I die, there aren't any good animations these days.

Ooo, voices? Gotta say the voices on 'Gargoyles' is one of the things I love best. My order of best ones is, Tony Jay in adoring third, John Rhys-Davies in an extremely close second, and Keith David in an uncontested, well-deserved first.
Firestone - [intellectualproperty12@hotmail.com]
USAWednesday, February 5, 2003 04:11:16 PM
IP: 63.214.199.245

<ENTER LORD SLOTH>

Great. We've got He-man, various versions of Transformers, X-men, and now Ninja Turtles as well. AFAIK, those, along with Gargoyles (and thundercats, and Dark Water Pirates), were pretty much the main drama/adventure catoons that showed up in the 80's and early 90's. Seems like it's only a matter of time before Disney smells the bait.
I wouldm't worry about the state of animation today because it's not destined to last, this I am sure of. I'm not certain what it will change into, but it seems like it can only get better. If you look back to TV cartoons from this fiftys and track them to today, you see how much evilution is going on, it constantly changes till you get to the action packed 80's (boy, what a mixed blessing they were (yet they seemed so awesome at the time) and early 90's. So either we end up going back to the Flintstones (dear god NO), or the TV people will look back and say, "that was a good time for toons, lets bring some of that magic back. I bet all those old nerds will still watch this crap to."
Or perhaps this is just my sentimental attitude, since I don't know that much about how broadcasting works. Only time will tell.

Pyro X> What I ment was that I haven't seen a Cartoon "RECENTLY" that was good enough to be called "GREAT" or even "Good."
Man, you ever tuned into the new cartoon known as "Clone High". Ah MAN, that is almost the most hillarious thing I have ever seen, on par with Family Guy and the Simpsons as they were back in their golden age. If you think things like the clone of Mahatma Ghandi going nuts becasue he has ADHD would be funny, watch it. If you don't, watch it.

Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury> I always thought that Tony Jay was the voice of Shere Khan, at least the origanal Jungle Book version. Anyway, as much as I adore the voice of Megabyte and Darth Vader, I'm afraid they both sound like kittins next to the infamous Thailog's calus one liners. Not to mention Spawn or Lord Okoto. Keith David man, his characters give me multiple shivers. For Goliath's sake,
someone get him something other then comercials!

Anonymous> Look out for it this summer.

Bilbo Baggins> Uh, no comment
speaking of good old Spock though, who thinks Leonard would be a good voice in Gargoyles? Who would he be cast as?
And ow bout Patrick Stewert? William Shatner? I've always thought John de Lancie would be great as Puck, he sounds just like him, not that I'd want Brent replaced.
Go on, speculate away

That's all
<EXIT LORD SLOTH>
Lord Sloth - [spunkidge13@hotmail.com]
Oakville, ON, Canada
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 03:21:24 PM
IP: 142.55.246.4

Blaqthourne>So, who has the best voice: Keith David, James Earl Jones, or Tony Jay?

You forgot John Rhys-Davies (YUM!)
Old Kathy
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 11:06:48 AM
IP: 198.31.97.254

Sorry for the double post.

I was just in the "Questions Submitted" section, and I saw some rather disturbing sights.

For starters, someone posted, TWICE, "Where can I get Garg action figures?"

Another was "Give me info on gargs." (?????????)

Yet another: "Gargoyles are Whicked man..." (Not EVEN a question...)

"What are the New Olympians?" (Any fan would know this...)

"What do gagyles look like?" (What's a Gagyle???)

Another person asked Greg his opinion about TGS. Greg DOESN'T READ fanfiction anyway!

Ugh... What are we to do?

Later~
Pyro X
CanadaWednesday, February 5, 2003 10:02:09 AM
IP: 199.185.68.2

Tony Jay has the best voice. Hands down. Not that I don't like any of the others, but his is just so... sisnister.

Later~
Pyro X
CanadaWednesday, February 5, 2003 09:44:22 AM
IP: 199.185.68.2

Re: Where are they now?
Not to mention that Keith David is the spokesvoice for the U.S. Navy, UPS, and BMW. I keep hearing his voice pop up in many, many commercials.

So, who has the best voice: Keith David, James Earl Jones, or Tony Jay (Anubis--"Gargoyles", Megabyte--"ReBoot", Chairface Chippendale--"The Tick", Virgil--"Mighty Max", Shere Khan--"Tale Spin")?
Blaqthourne & Crimson Fury
Wednesday, February 5, 2003 01:31:00 AM
IP: 65.58.26.161

It has yet to be stated when the DVD is released.
Mr. X
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 06:56:22 PM
IP: 203.96.58.8

when does the gargoyles dvd come out?
Anonymous
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 06:54:43 PM
IP: 65.19.131.218

Well, I'll admit that dropping the original cast would certainly be problematical (I still recall how, when I first began reading "The Lord of the Rings", I considered it a pity that Bilbo was retired at the beginning and only had a small role, though I now understand why Tolkien had to take that step - and no, this comment wasn't inspired by that Nimoy business :) ). It was more just something that I was tossing out in my thoughts.

Of course, there's also still the question of where "Gargoyles" would air; the Disney Afternoon no longer exists, after all, and judging from what I've heard of Toon Disney's editings, that channel wouldn't be ideal for it either. Of course, there's always other mediums (such as the comic book) to consider.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 06:32:40 PM
IP: 67.75.176.58

Yow... it's over 5 years since I first posted here. Seems like only yesterday.

Anyway, it was Warioress' post that caught my eye. That Turtles cartoon looks amazing, I can't wait to see it. (Admittedly since I don't live in America and don't have a tv anyway that might be a problem, but...) I think this looks really exciting though.

And hey - a dramatic cartoon with serial elements! Let's hope this makes Disney think back to the last time they had one of them.

Incidentally, does anyone know what Greg is working on nowadays?
Ed - [ed@steelclaw.org]
Cambridge, England
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 05:52:27 PM
IP: 131.111.8.102

The Hobbit Song> It's Leonard Nimoy at his best. I've heard the song on Dr Demento before ( I've also downloaded it a while ago; I can't deny that I love the song. It wayyyy cool). If you thought it was wierd, you should here "Highly Illogical" (By him as well.)

The hobbit song... It's a great song...

Later~
Pyro X
CanadaTuesday, February 4, 2003 03:35:26 PM
IP: 205.206.79.107

New TMNT > As someone who'd been a fan of the old right up until the last season when it tried unsucessfully to shed the camp and go "edgy"... I've been planning on checking out the new just for kicks. So thanks for the heads up... I shall set my VCR.

And while I'm here talking about shows that are no longer on the air, on a little "where are they now" note:

Last week, Keith David had a guest appearance as the operator of a youth center on the original "CSI." And last night, I am pretty sure Salli Richardson had a guest appearance as a policewoman on "CSI: Miami." I'm not entirely sure it was her yet... I only glanced up at the opening credits in time to catch a breif glimpse of what looked like her name, and the phony Miss Cleo accent the character had made a positive voice identification very difficult. But if you can picture Elisa as Jamaican and want to help me confirm it... den hey, mon, dis might be one worth catchin' later on de season. ;)
Patrick Toman
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 12:46:31 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

I just clicked Leo's link. I don't know what to think. It was very disturbing.
Jimmy
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 12:16:19 PM
IP: 199.74.80.183

For your amusement:
"The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins"

Someting you'll want to forget. >:D

Click my name for the link. (it takes a while to load for dial-up users)
Leo - [<--------- >:D]
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 11:35:24 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

Speaking of 'toons: is anyone else going to give the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles show a try? According to the site I have linked it'll start this Saturday(2/8) on the Fox Channel's "Fox Box". From the sound of it, it *won't* have anything to do with the original show(that alone sounds promising...) and will follow the comic book more closely. Here's the site:

http://www.ninjaturtles.com/
warrioress
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 10:51:58 AM
IP: 66.142.238.62

Todd> <<Of course, there's always the possibility still of doing one of the spin-offs instead, and have Goliath and his clan be "semi-retired" now, occasionally making a guest star appearance to help out the new protagonists but never again being the main characters.>>


I don't know if I would give the show much attention then. Its sorta like we grew up knowing those characters, and to just have them thrown to the side for a whole new slate..... It wouldn't sit well with me, especially since Goliath was perhaps the biggest reason I watched the show; yes, I would be quite irked if he was put aside as a side character. Then again, if Dark Ages was made, I'd be quite content. :D

cartoon industry> One name: Don Hertzfeldt and his Bitter Films "industry." He may not make series cartoons, bu he makes cartoon shorts. And they are perhaps among the greatest american animation feats I have ever seen (other than gargoyles, or course :} )
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 10:21:25 AM
IP: 129.120.35.134

Sorry for the Double Post.

What I ment was that I haven't seen a Cartoon "RECENTLY" that was good enough to be called "GREAT" or even "Good."

(Trying to make that clear.)

Later~
Pyro X
CanadaTuesday, February 4, 2003 10:08:40 AM
IP: 199.185.68.2

Hey>

For the most part it is true. There are no "Good" cartoons anymore. Simpsons, while somewhat funny, has lost it's edge in the last few seasons. In this, the 14th season, I found only one TRUELY funny episode (Helter Shelter).

One show that was GREAT was "Family Guy" but fox pulled the plug on THAT GEM for no appearent reason (There is a petition to get the show back on; it has 98,000 names or some such; it probably won't work.) The show was hilarious!

Thankfully, Teletoon in Canada airs it five days a week, so I don't miss it.

"King of the Hill," Fox's OTHER Cartoon, is a great funny show and I'm sad to say that it is the last of the truly funny shows. It's funnier than the Simpsons (It doesn't beat Family guy though.)

Southpark, while VERY funny, is not for everyone. It has a warped sense of humor, which isprobably why I like it so much. It's a great show too, but again, it's not for everyone.

After Beastwars, Transformers sucked. They really did. TF just doesn't work "Japanamation" style.

I haven't yet seen a "Cartoon" show capable of being truly "good."

If Gargs came back, I am pretty sure it would capture a big market because there aren't many shows now that could truly stay on par with it. It would probably capture a large audiance share with ease (if it were given good treatment and a proper time-slot.)

And as for the main characters, I think you'd have to use them in the beginning. Once the "new" audiance (new and old fans alike) get a feel for the "new" show and it's characters, you could ease into other area's and spin-off's.

And that's my two cents.

Later~


Pyro X
CanadaTuesday, February 4, 2003 10:05:38 AM
IP: 199.185.68.2

Shogun raptor> Every thing you said is 100% true, it's called people never take risks, they never go for anything original. The new transformers cartoons are nothing because they don't have that spark, maybe because of the kids the robots make friends with, or the fact they are all mangaized. But it's also the fact that the the bad guys are all bumbling nitwits and have no real personality except trip over, shoot their comrads by accident and not notice the hero behind them.

Cartoons have never been the same since the late 90's, especially Disney who keep doing poor quality animations about kids and school life and the 'wacky' adventures they have.

That's the problem, there's no seriousness in the stories and nothing much happens expect someone trips, someone cheats on a test or they have to choose between cheerleading and saving the world from a stupid bunch of typical villans. Kim Possible is good, but it lacks something, though shego (sp?) would be a pretty good villan in another cartoon.

That's what i liked about gargoyles, the bad guys were cunning and smart and had perfect evil plots!

Okay I'm out of ranting juice.
Silverbolt
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 07:43:31 AM
IP: 212.50.183.100

Actually, there might be a certain advantage to ending the "feared and persecuted by humanity" theme in "Gargoyles" should it return; after the way that the "Goliath Chronicles" handled it, I suspect that almost everybody in the audience would have become sick and tired of it.

But even then, I believe that the big problem in accepting "Angels in the Night" as canon and continuing from there is that it's not a very open-ended ending. It wraps up the racial prejudice/Quarrymen thread without bringing in anything new in its place (granted, it was designed as being the end of the series, with no new episodes following it, period, so that was most likely intentional). You'd need to come up with something brand new in its place (and something more than just the gargoyles continuing as crime-fighters in New York), and you'd have to come up with it without any assistance from the third season.

Of course, there's always the possibility still of doing one of the spin-offs instead, and have Goliath and his clan be "semi-retired" now, occasionally making a guest star appearance to help out the new protagonists but never again being the main characters.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 07:14:14 AM
IP: 65.57.56.2

*WARNING! STATE OF THE ANIMATION ADDRESS/RANT AHEAD*
speaking of stories and writing, I don't mean to gripe but why is it you can't find any well-written american cartoons anymore? I mean hell, even the DC comics stuff isn't as edgy as it once was, where's the cleverness, where's the bite? where's the kind of cartoon you wouldn't be ashamed to watch as an adult? about the only thing remotely close to that is the He-man cartoon and that's been relegated to once a week, I may seem a bitter man but that's because this sunday I happened to catch an episode of Men in Black written by Greg the great one himself, and between that and Invader Zim there's nothing on, then you got cartoon network, it's got the adult swim block, but beyond that....nada, zilch, not that I don't love Toriyama's work it's just the reruns get a little tiresome, and don't get me started on Armada, sure it's transformers but it's a shadow of the greats like Beast Wars, hell armada made Goliath chronicles look good by comparison, "but what about samurai jack and justice league" sure they're good, too but they keep running the same slaggin' episodes over and over, but that's another rant, I guess I'm just bitter because I don't get toon disney, that and I think they pulled out of putting all of Beast wars on DVD, as for gargs, I PRAY by all things winged and angsty that it gets done properly, so in closing, saturday morning is a steaming pile, and where have all the good writers gone? anime's good but the overcommercialized stuff gets too much credit, (so says the guy who's going to the next big anime con as that illustrious emperor of thieves, Lupin the third)
and in the words of Vash the stampede....LOVE AND PEACE!
(yeah yeah I know, but come on, Trigun's a GREAT anime)
Shogun raptor
Tuesday, February 4, 2003 01:35:26 AM
IP: 209.86.189.173

........................There was an episode in TGC where Goliath had a 'dream sequence' influenced by Titania when he was human... the whole 'humanity accepting the Gargoyles' could be a dream within a dream. I know it's not an original idea, but there are many other ways for Greg W. to get around the 3rd season if he wanted to.

Vin
castle0909
Monday, February 3, 2003 11:30:57 PM
IP: 152.163.204.188

TODD> <<Unfortunately, I doubt that the Disney execs see it that way. I very much suspect that they view all of "The Goliath Chronicles" as canon, and aren't likely to change their minds any time soon>>

Disney execs only care about one thing... cash! They could care less about what is and what is not continuity. If they think they'll get cash out of it, they'll bring the series back. Hopefully with Greg running things. And even if Disney ordered Greg to acknowledge TGC (which I doubt they'd care about either way), I'm sure Greg would get around it in his own way. It's how we got the marriage of Fox and David and the birth of Alex, the WOrld Tour, and other things.

Say it loud and say it proud TGC IS NOT CANON!!!!
Greg Bishansky
Monday, February 3, 2003 07:45:50 PM
IP: 216.179.1.83

Sorry for the double post, but:

Greg's latest answer at "Ask Greg" is another one of those "Are gargoyles aliens?" questions (the asker seems to have overlooked the fact that he's already answered this one more than once). I must confess, I'm still more than a little surprised that people go on believing that gargoyles are aliens. (Maybe "Sentinel" should have been written a little more clearly, so that people would understand from it that Nokkar was mistaking the gargoyles for a previously unknown alien race allied to the Space-Spawn, rather than as Space-Spawn themselves - implying that the Space-Spawn look like gargoyles, which obviously wasn't Mr. Weisman's intent).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, February 3, 2003 06:36:36 PM
IP: 63.208.60.35

["Angels in the Night" is not now, nor will it ever be part of the Gargoyles continuity.]

Unfortunately, I doubt that the Disney execs see it that way. I very much suspect that they view all of "The Goliath Chronicles" as canon, and aren't likely to change their minds any time soon.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, February 3, 2003 06:32:06 PM
IP: 63.208.60.35

I'm back, been sick as a dog all last week. First time I've been really sick without my parents around too. I missed my mommy.

Why continue Gargoyles. I feel it didn't get the conclusion it deserved. It just sort of ended, no real closure to tie up all the loose ends. And the third season was so pathetic that it cannot be counted as a legitimate continuation of the storyline.
Jimmy
Monday, February 3, 2003 12:27:54 PM
IP: 199.74.80.183

TODD> For one very simple reason. "Angels in the Night" is not canon, and thus not an ending to the series. We need Greg to return to the helm and continue things and if things have to end, give us a proper ending, open-ended of course.

"Angels in the Night" is not now, nor will it ever be part of the Gargoyles continuity.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, February 3, 2003 09:46:36 AM
IP: 216.179.1.83

Number 10.

Here's one question that I've been occasionally wondering. Why is it that, while we aren't that enthusiastic about Disney doing sequels to its original animated theatrical movies, we want to see them bring back "Gargoyles"? Wouldn't that be much the same thing (especially since they *did* give it the "happily ever after" ending in "Angels in the Night")?
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, February 3, 2003 07:22:15 AM
IP: 63.208.40.13

Number Nine.
matt
Monday, February 3, 2003 06:46:40 AM
IP: 207.230.48.6

Guess I'm only eight then...
Lynati
Monday, February 3, 2003 01:51:37 AM
IP: 65.66.155.184

Hmmm, do I smell seventh place?
ColdFire
Monday, February 3, 2003 01:40:06 AM
IP: 199.185.30.201

Sixth!
KWKeller
Monday, February 3, 2003 01:05:21 AM
IP: 132.241.65.117

fifth in the name of the Fay!

MC
Mooncat
Monday, February 3, 2003 12:34:14 AM
IP: 68.102.23.36

YES! WE LIIIIIIIIVE! ^_^

And in fourth place, too! :D How droll. ^_^

WE LOVE YOU ALL!!!!!
Roy & Kiva
Honolulu, Hawaii
Monday, February 3, 2003 12:27:40 AM
IP: 64.75.150.224

3rd!!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, February 3, 2003 12:17:40 AM
IP: 204.94.193.61

Ahh crud! forgot. second!
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Monday, February 3, 2003 12:04:17 AM
IP: 66.169.210.231

First! Muahahahaha!
- yes I'm childish and have no life, but U all knew that already. *slides out of the skylight and falls into a snowbank.*
Wingless - [canclan@rogers.com]
Monday, February 3, 2003 12:00:10 AM
IP: 24.42.46.223