Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending July 14, 2003

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DPH> This is actually one of the first questions in the Ask Greg FAQ.

By human standards, Demona was 52. Needless to say, she aged terribly. As to your second question. I'm sure it's on a case by case basis. Hudson stepped down as leader because he chose to. He thought he was too old to lead. Demona on the other hand, well she outright said "Tired of nay there is no one else to lead the last of our kind." I don't think she would have ever stepped down. Hypothetically she would have led until she was killed in battle or died of old age.
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, July 13, 2003 07:20:48 PM
IP: 216.179.1.59

I've been watching City of Stone to study up on understanding of Demona. Before Macbeth swaps his youth with Demona during the flashback of COS part 3, how biologically old is Demona? Specifically, is she younger than Hudson was during the flashback of "Long Way to Morning"? I'm just curious if gargoyle clan leaders normally lead until their death, or do they eventually retire?
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, July 13, 2003 05:33:51 PM
IP: 204.94.193.3

Matt - Correct. I don't know the point totals (check the tgs cr for why I don't) right now.
DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, July 13, 2003 05:07:08 PM
IP: 204.94.193.3

DPH> ok, there are three wheels. two on the bottom, one on the tail.
matt
Sunday, July 13, 2003 04:18:34 PM
IP: 207.230.48.121

yes, I'm still alive and such if anyone was to care. but what I'm coming on here for is to make an ad ;)

Fans and Freaks: The Culture of Comics and Conventions is out on DVD for $19.99. This fantastic look at anime, science fiction, fantasy, horror, gaming, furries and so much more has finally come to DVD in a limited release special edition! Click on my name to see more about it.
If you happen to live in or near the middle TN area you can pick up your copy locally in three locations of CD Warehouse in the middle Tennessee area. The phone numbers for the stores are listed below:

CD Warehouse
Rivergate/Madison, TN
615-851-1535

Vanderbilt/Nashville
615-321-3472

Bellevue, TN
615-673-3472

if you dont live in or near the Middle TN area, you can buy it online just click my name to get to the link. There are no clips on the Gargoyles Cons in this film, even though I had mentioned it as being one they might want to see and add to the film to the couple that created the film a few years ago. but its still a great film to watch. yes, I'm in this film as well along with a good deal of the other people in the anime club I'm a part of. though its a bit of a background thing for me near the beginning of the film. I'm outside the outer limits store, while some announcements are being made, chatting and walking with a friend and you end up only seeing my body from the waist down, but I am noticable due to me wearing a black trenchcoat ;). but anyways....overall, its a good film and had won two awards: the Audience Choice Award For Best Documentary Feature at the Dahlonega International Film Festival in Dahlonega, Georgia 2002 and the Best Documentary Feature at the Atlanta Comic Con Film Festival in Atlanta, Georgia 2003. it'll show clips of Pope Hentai of OLAC. You'll get to hear the Viking theme song. You'll get to see someone drink screwdrivers at a con, then throw up in a ventilation shaft the next day. it'll have clips of Anime Weekend Atlanta, the Mephit Fur Met and of DragonCon. Special Guest appearences by Karen Black, Gwar, Jerry Only, Gabriel Koerner, and Dick Warlock, who was played Michael Myers in Halloween II.

now back to your regularly scheduled Comment room ;)
Gavean
Sunday, July 13, 2003 03:28:42 PM
IP: 161.45.210.171

I was at the Ottawa Blues Festival last evening(of course the one night I decided to go would be the night that the skies would open up and we'd get drenched-but anyway)
On the bill was Dan Ackroyd & Jim "Fang" Belushi in the 'Have Love Will Travel" review. Got the creative demons biting - picture Fang & the mutates in their own Blues/R&B band - maybe "the fang & claw blues band"-with Fang on vocals, claw on harmonica...maybe have maggie on keyboards or bass and talon on guitar. Or take it a step further and apply that to the Bad guys team. It certainly a unique experience hearing Fangs voice belting out tunes like "Soul Man" "Hard to handle", "Money" etc.

Just thought I'd share that little experience with you...now I have to go wring out my jacket..which is still pretty damp from the soggy evening.
Wingless - [thesixties@rogers.com]
Sunday, July 13, 2003 11:23:29 AM
IP: 24.157.76.94

hello!

Todd, about Xanatos' decision to take Owen instead of the favor, I was thinking that Future Xanatos mentioned to his younger self in the letter to take Owen instead of the one time wish. "Believe me, kid, you don't want to know about the way Puck grants wishes!"

Great job with the Pendragon episodes, btw! I may have left the TGS Staff for a while I still enjoy reading it!

That's all for now, guys!

Denis - [d.deplaen@lft.be]
Saturday, July 12, 2003 09:04:52 PM
IP: 80.201.89.147

MATT - Yes, I've wondered about that myself occasionally. I've even submitted a question about that to "Ask Greg", though it probably won't be answered for quite some time.

Watched my tape of "The Mirror" this morning. This one is still a lot of fun. One of my favorite bits is where, after the transformed New Yorkers run from the "now-human" gargoyles, Hudson turns to Goliath and says to him, "Are you sure this is a good idea?" (Actually, much of the humor came from the way he said it.)

I still find it interesting that none of the transformed New Yorkers noticed the way that Demona or (before they got turned into humans) Goliath's clan were dressed. Maybe it's just typical "New Yorkness" at work again.

After seeing the way that Puck granted Demona's wishes, I'd say that Xanatos showed good judgement in choosing a lifetime of service from Owen. :)

And, of course, we get all those landmarks: Puck introduced, the Goliath and Elisa element advanced (complete with that great scene where they're gliding together, starting with "I never realized how beautiful you are"), and Demona getting Puck's little "present". (After this, Hudson's strategy in "Long Way Till Morning" is no longer any good against Demona.)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, July 12, 2003 07:08:35 PM
IP: 171.75.194.129

Matt - wrong answer. Technically, you are correct, there are no sets of tires. But there is more than one tire on that glider.
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, July 12, 2003 02:40:27 PM
IP: 204.94.193.3

My Gathering Journal is now complete, and I've posted a copy at Ask Greg, too.

Now on to fanfic!
Patrick
Saturday, July 12, 2003 12:01:11 PM
IP: 65.43.167.169

Todd> "but also in the true nature of the Scrolls of Merlin as containing, not Merlin's spells, but his autobiography; I find it particularly significant that the passage that Macbeth reads aloud is about Merlin's first tutoring the young Arthur."
are you sure it was Merlin's autobiography? i always assumed it was Merlin's reflections on Arthur, perhaps even a biography of Arthur as told by Merlin. it always seemed like MacBeth started reading at the beginning of the first scroll, not somewhere in the middle. i might be forgeting something, or maybe i just don't know something that you do, in which case feel free to correct me, but thats how i always saw it.
not to mention, with someone like Merlin, who had such a long and eventful life, you'd think it would take more than two scrolls to write it all out.

later!
matt
Saturday, July 12, 2003 11:00:40 AM
IP: 216.178.8.52

MC> Yes, I remember it. I donated the script to the auction (bought it back at G2001). I forgot who got it or how much it went for though.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, July 12, 2003 02:18:32 AM
IP: 216.179.3.74

Does anyone remember the script for "The Journey" being up for auction at the Gathering? I think it might not have gotten put up on the block because time ran out. If I'm wrong, could someone let me know? I got the radio play script for "The Reckoning" but didn't know there was another script up for grabs, besides of course the one from "The Last" that I lost to IRC Goliath *moan, whimper...*

Gathering Journal coming soon... honest! Just been so busy since getting back home, and tonight I played hookey and went to see LXG with friends. Nice show to go to with a group of your friends. We wound up at Brahms eating ice cream afterwards and discussing it. Loved this version of Mina Harker, and everyone agreed that Dorian Grey was great.

kay, sleep now
Mooncat
Mooncat
Saturday, July 12, 2003 02:09:53 AM
IP: 68.102.0.23

My Gathering Diary is up at Ask Greg. Is yours?
kathy
Saturday, July 12, 2003 12:01:38 AM
IP: 66.82.197.241

Sunday has just been added to my Gathering journal!

Greg - When I'm finished writing the whole thing up, I'll post it all to Ask Greg, I promise. :)
Patrick
Friday, July 11, 2003 09:48:06 PM
IP: 68.21.245.15

Saw my tape of "Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" today. This, for obvious reasons, is one of my favorite "Gargoyles" episodes.

One of the things that I particularly like about it is the way that it handled the role of Merlin in it. Animated series that, at some point, include a reference to King Arthur, Merlin, et al are a dime a dozen. What made the "Gargoyles" treatment of them stand out, and especially here, is how they handled Merlin. He's not just another old wizard here. The episode focuses not on his being a famous wizard, but on his being King Arthur's mentor who inspired him to found Camelot. This gets in not only through Macbeth's very moving speech about Arthur and Merlin, but also in the true nature of the Scrolls of Merlin as containing, not Merlin's spells, but his autobiography; I find it particularly significant that the passage that Macbeth reads aloud is about Merlin's first tutoring the young Arthur. (For that matter, they even get in, via the "human heart" bit, a reference to Lancelot and Guinevere.) Incidentally, judging from how Hudson and Broadway learned the worth of reading during the adventure, Merlin is clearly still serving as a teacher even by remote control.

One thing that I noticed this time around is that only Lydia Duane is on board the ship taking the Scrolls of Merlin to New York; there's no sign of Morwood-Smythe there. Apparently he must have stayed behind in Britain.

I still get a smile out of Bronx sleeping on Lexington's magazines while Lex is trying to read them. (Of course, Bronx generally sleeps wherever he wants. :) ).

One other thing that I really like about this episode is how Broadway and Hudson's attitude towards their illiteracy was varied. Broadway can't read and doesn't think that he's missing anything; Hudson can't read and feels ashamed about it, to such an extent that he doesn't tell anybody about it prior to meeting Jeffrey Robbins. I very much liked the different portrayals here.

And Owen gets another fun scene here in interacting with Goliath when the latter shows up at the castle (in contrast to "Leader of the Pack", this time Hudson and Broadway are missing and Lex and Brooklyn are with Goliath). I wonder if his "You should know that I can't do that" remark was a veiled reference to his abilities as Puck, and the fact that his deal with Xanatos wouldn't allow him to use them here.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, July 11, 2003 07:46:08 PM
IP: 171.75.194.215

Hey G2003 staff and attendees,

Just stopping by with a plea that you all post your Gathering Diaries/Journals/Logs/etc. at ASK GREG. I'd like as many there as possible.

Ellen/Allaine/Patrick/Kelly, I'm specifically looking at you, since I know you've written yours up already. But really, I'd love it if EVERYONE who attended the Gathering contributed. The more detail the better, but I'd even settle for "Wow, I had a great time."

This isn't an idle request. Journals and feedback could be very useful sales tools and help me to convince TPTB at Disney about the enthusiasm of the fandom.

Please cut and paste your journals directly into ASK GREG. No links.

Also, please spread the word to other garg-sites and other people you know who attended. It would really be great if we could get 100+ Gathering Journals on the site.

I'd really appreciate it.
Greg Weisman
Friday, July 11, 2003 07:08:56 PM
IP: 66.81.246.194

Just a quick note to announce two new stories:

The Dissidents: Castle of Light -- this is the conclusion of the Dissidents series, in which Corwin finds himself in a strange place that would be any other male's idea of heaven.

Cold Hearts -- wrapping up the Godiva/Gabriel/Angus/etc. storyline; the young males want to come home, but their mother still wants to keep them out of Godiva's clutches.
Both stories contain some adult material (but not nearly as much as the Godiva devotees might want).

Click below, or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html for the latest.
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Friday, July 11, 2003 02:22:03 PM
IP: 208.187.159.239

The finalists for the AMGC mascot contest are now up. Please vote carefully, because the entry with the most CREATIVE votes will be our new mascot! :) Voting for the mascots will occur until 12 noon on the 16th.

Voting for MGC is still going on as well, so if you haven't gone over and voted for your choice of most artistic and most creative, please do so! It only takes a few minutes! :D
Siryn - [<--FINALIST VOTING!]
Friday, July 11, 2003 01:13:46 PM
IP: 24.213.130.186

Hey Patrick,
Great journal! Drop me an email when you get the chance. I didn't touch the tape after filming. Just went right into setting up Rocky Horror so I'm not sure what to tell you about that. =(

Ethan
Ethan Gilchrist - [Ethan@randominformation.com]
New York City, NY, USA
Friday, July 11, 2003 07:17:55 AM
IP: 68.173.40.203

I was listening to Evanescence and a few of their songs brought me back to Gargoyles in a sense (Linkin Park does it for me too) and some of the lyrics, in my mind, put a poetic spin on an insight of the characters. So even though we all know this to be true, I don't recall if I had ever seen anybody phrase it quite this way, so I thought I'd share for the sake of sharing ^_^
She's been alive all this time but Demona is the real one who slept for 1000 years
IRC Goliath - [goliath1@pacbell.net]
Friday, July 11, 2003 03:12:01 AM
IP: 64.167.42.109

****A door on one end of the Comment Room opens slowly. A heavy fog floats through it, filling the Room from ceiling to floor with its impenetrable cloud. From somewhere out in the fog come noises--barks that are decidedly undog-like, half-human shrieks, grinding metal, air raid sirens, and, very faintly at first but gradually getting louder,
white noise like that heard from a radio. Indeed, it is a radio--a handheld one--in the pocket of Blaise as he slowly wanders into the room. With a sigh of relief, Blaise throws himself into a chair and relaxes. The fog and its sounds have vanished.**** Hi again! I've been spending some time playing "Silent Hill 2" (and as you can see, its left an impression on me).
Another Gathering has come and gone, and once again we hear (read?) the stories of those who attended. How I envy them! Well, I still have memories of the one in LA, at least. And there's always next year....

LORD SLOTH> Say, that was a pretty dang good entrance!
As for the toe, I am wincing in sympathy as I write this. Just the very idea of what happened! Just know you've got yourself a support base here.

LEGION> One thing about this is that it shares with LEADER OF THE PACK and METAMORPHOSIS this simple distinction: Xanatos wins. Granted it's not so obvious in the case of LEADER and LEGION, but Xanatos largely gets what he wanted. In LEADER, definitely--he never cared about any of the rest of it, just getting Fox an early parole, and that was a complete victory. In METAMORPHOSIS his victory is only dampened (and barely) by Elisa's vow of vengance, and regardless of that, it is his most devastating victory as far as its effect on the good guys is concerned. And in LEGION, he loses Coldstone but gains the virus.
Seriously, how many villains in western animated series airing in the afternoon have had even this many victories, let alone in a row?

I can hardly wait for the next of Greg's rambles (and the restarting of the DCV again). Catch you all later! Until then, farewell. ****Blaise clasps his hands over his belly, closes his eyes, and...sinks right into the chair and out of sight.****
Blaise
Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:07:43 PM
IP: 209.178.153.131

Just dropping by to say I've got the first two days of my Gathering journal done, and if you're interested you can read by clicking my name. :)
Patrick
Thursday, July 10, 2003 09:20:22 PM
IP: 65.43.164.125

Last I knew, Xanatos wasn't one to waste any advantages, much less the most powerful virus he knows of. I'm sure it will get used somehow if and when the show comes back.
Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Thursday, July 10, 2003 05:12:06 PM
IP: 24.195.1.11

Saw my tape of "Legion" today. I really enjoyed that episode this time around.

This is one episode that you have to see twice to fully comprehend. The first time that I saw it, when Coldstone "changed" at the clock tower, I thought that he'd simply suffered some sort of memory loss from the computer virus. It was the second time around that I realized that the reason was that Desdemona had surfaced.

I still really get a kick out of the names Desdemona and Iago for the characters who would later on become Coldfire and Coldsteel. I remember the thrill that I felt when I saw their names in the ending credits of "Legion".

Pity that they never did anything with the virus that Xanatos obtained. I was certain from the scene where he's got his hands on it at the end that he was going to do something with it in a later episode.

One touch that I liked: if you look closely at RECAP when it's charging into the Golden Cup Building, you can see the scarab logo on it that appeared in "Awakening"; a good subtle clue to the audience about what was going on there (though I didn't spot it on the first-time viewing either).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, July 9, 2003 06:41:00 PM
IP: 171.75.194.24

WELCOME BACK SLOTHY!!! hope you get well soon. i know Sloth's are slow, but maybe you should learn to not put your foot in a lawnmower! hehehe, just playin'. made me laugh again, glad you are back. i wondered where you had gone off to...

DPH> unless i'm mistaken, i can answer your question since theres been two asked since i won last... right? anyway, my answer to your query is none. there were no sets of tires on Derek's glider. i believe there was only one wheel at all, which doesn't seem to be very stable if you ask me...

WOW, Alexander is 7 years old today! anyone else feel old? *raises hand*

laters
matt
Wednesday, July 9, 2003 05:13:29 PM
IP: 207.230.48.14

Oh yea, here's my question:

How many sets of tires does the glider that Derek Maza is flying have?

*hopes to heck I can get my pc at home working without having to reinstall the operating system*
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, July 9, 2003 02:10:00 PM
IP: 204.94.193.3

Phil - for my 1st 2 points, Alexander Xanatos - Here's the quote from Ask Greg: Alex was not yet born at that time. My current thinking pegs his birthdate as 7-9-96, a Tuesday. And yes, I do have a much tougher question in mind to ask and it is related to Metamorphosis.
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, July 9, 2003 12:52:33 AM
IP: 204.94.193.77

Trivia> Since there's only a half-hour until my birthday, I'll ask a question related to that:

For two points, what Gargoyles character was born on July 9?

Note: This information isn't technically from the series; it's from "Ask Greg." Good luck!

Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 11:37:32 PM
IP: 63.181.233.216

*delurks, waves tiredly*

Got back from Chicago on Sunday, and the majority of my way-too-long G2003 con diary is up on my LJ (click my name).

I know some folks who hang out here are in Chicago, but I had no time this week to coordinate ANYTHING in the way of meeting up (and we crammed too much into three days). Talked to Merlin Missy on the phone and that was about it. :) I am NEVER doing two back-to-back vacations again.
Mandolin
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 09:28:42 PM
IP: 68.54.184.87

Phil - correct answer, for 2 points. Now, you get to ask the next question or designate somebody else to ask it. Status check: Demona Tain can now answer questions for points. Matt can not answer the next question for points and Phil can't answer the next 2 questions for points.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 08:50:29 PM
IP: 204.94.193.70

METAMORPHOSIS> At first I thought that there were two Sevearious' (Sevarii?) One was the father, and one was the son. Not true. then I thought that Sevarious was playing his father, and he called it his "dad scene." What does he say? Death scene? Anyway, I was surprised when Sevarious came in at the end; Owen having said that he found the "best geneticist on the planet." Huh? I though he was dead? I never understood till now.

Severious faked his death so Xanatos could convince Derek that Goliath killed him and that his chance for a cure was gone. Thus, Derek felt that only Xanatos could help him and the rest.

This was not true as we all know.

Goliath truely feels for Elisa at the end. Goliath knows that she's lost someone very close to her.

Goliath lost his whole family and his mate (so-to-speak). Elisa lost her brother (as she knew him).

Another thing I like is the fact that they showed Brooklyn as a horny teenager. Brooklyn tries to help Maggie; he sees her as an attractive female, but she resists. He states that "she didn't need... me" (Or something like that.)

Hey, I just wanted to tell you that I have a bunch of transformers tapes for sale on eBay. (Shameless plug for me :P)

The link is

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3336456607&category=1162&rd=1

Or click my name.

Later~
Battle Beast
CanadaTuesday, July 8, 2003 07:57:25 PM
IP: 142.59.108.86

Sorry for accidentally posting that three times.
Todd Jensen
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 07:04:50 PM
IP: 171.75.194.15

I saw my tape of "Metamorphosis" today. One of my favorite episodes in early Season Two, largely because of the ending with Elisa. The scene where she angrily berates Xanatos (who, for once, looks a little worried) and then is weeping at the clock tower was very effective.

We get introduced to the Mutates and Sevarius; Sevarius was probably the funniest member of the rogues' gallery in the entire series. We certainly get introduced quickly to his fondness for emoting.

The first time that I saw this one, I was dumbfounded when Sevarius was "killed" by the electric eels: I thought "They actually killed somebody in a Disney television cartoon?" (I'd forgotten at the time that they'd already done that to Hakon and the Captain, of course.) Though it turns out that Sevarius was faking it (and, according to Xanatos, overdid it).

The first time that I saw this one, also, I really thought, until the end, that Xanatos was sincere about wanting to cure Derek - indeed, I mentally cheered when Xanatos refused to cage Derek, saying "He's a man, not an animal." And then, at the end, when it turned out that Xanatos had set up the whole thing all along, I was taken aback. What I find interesting about it now is that I knew precisely what Xanatos was like, and still found myself taken in. Says a lot about Mr. X, doesn't it?
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 07:03:59 PM
IP: 171.75.194.15

Sloth> *gives condolence cookies* Ow, you poor dear. I hope your toe gets all better. :(

*pointedly ignores all the people who can't recognize a joke*
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 04:57:45 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

<a lonely wail of extreme agony suddenly rises up from floor boards, and everything becomes deathly silent. The Dragons of the CR, whom had gone into a brief hibernation underneath the cookie table, suddenly spring to life and look around expectantly as if anticipating some evil Zombie about to rise out of the ground, which they would be able to maul. A few minutes pass and then the ghostly wail returns, this time coming from the back wall. In conjunction with the wail, footsteps are now audible, getting louder, as well as the horrible sound of something heavy dragging across the floor. "Scrooooge" a voice calls (doing a good impression of Sir Michel Horden), then a loud bump as something crashes against the CR's Closet door. The room shakes and a single cookie falls off of the table and, before anyone can stop it, rolls down the floor to the closet door (which has been flung open) and against the leg of an imposing boy/man supported by crutches and hauling his cast burdened leg behind him. Without warning he drops down, scoops up the cookie and shoves it greedily into his mouth. The moment he rises again he is pushed to the ground again as the black Wyvern known as Devil Doll catapults into his chest and proceeds to lick his face whilst giving him a few friendly stings with his tail. The other dragons go back to sleep in disappointment as Lord Sloth returns to the full proud upright position.

<ENTER LORD SLOTH>

Thanks Devil Doll, Hi everybody! <pauses a second for a "hi Dr. Sloth" in response, which doesn't come> Forgive the long dramatic entrance, but seeing as it's been two...three months since I was last here, I thought I'd do something in the stile of Blaise <nods to Blaise>, though I have no wish to compete with the master. Anyway, I've been trying to keep up to date with my lurking since I left my College and been off the Internet, but I'm only allowed one hour at the library computers so it's usually all I can do to keep up with the reading; and that was before *this* happened to me <gestures toward his leg>. I got bitten by a wild, rabid (and most likely evil) Lawn-mower. I just backed the thing over my left foot and, without any warning or motivation that I could see, it bit off two thirds of my big toe. At that point I went instantly into that cool place called "being in Shock" where I feel very calm and extremely freaked out at the same time; you have to experience it to know what I mean. Well, luckily my brother was there and a neighbour was able to call an ambulance, because there's no phone at my dads house other then the cell phone he keeps with him. So I ride an ambulance to the hospital and, after acing the Sarrs test at the door, I get a lovely dose of morphine and a freezing liquid in my toe numbed out the pain, though I've got to say that the psychological aspect was more painful then the physical pain. After about five hours I got my operation and boy was that a real treat, twas the only part of the experience I really enjoyed; you see I'm one of those odd morbid people who like to see their own flesh and bones, not that I ever make an effort to see them myself. So they patched me up, stuck two metal rods in my toe and I've been that way for three weeks now. Of course, that put off any last minute plans I may have had about going to the Gathering; I still might have gone, but I'm quite certain that my parents and any other reasonable person wouldn't let me go to New York in the condition I was in; so I decided I might as well wait for next year, seeing as how it's going to be SO much closer, and there's no way I'm going to be able justify not going to that one. I just hope enough of you Americans will take the risk of crossing the border into scary Canada and Quebec.

But enough about me, I'm not even going to go into the difficulties my injury has caused to my dealings with Slothatopia. No, just let me catch up here on what I've been missing ...<reads last week's posts>...
Holy Revelations Batman! He IS gay, it's official! I mean tons of fanfics have picked up on this idea for years, but now that it's out of Greg's mouth it's practically canon; all that needs to be done now is animate it. I wonder if this was an internal fact since the first episode or it creped up on Greg like the Fox and Xanatos thing, or did Greg just figure it out a week ago? I think the reason I like this tidbit so much is that it's going to make finding a mate all the more hard for poor Lex. Not that I don't want him to find one, it's just that as a viewer, it makes the story all the better if things aren't at all easy for our heros. So since Brooklyn is soon going to have a mate and kids appear out of thin air, Lex is going to be very separated from the other two, who have mates to tend to, which could lead to him getting closer to Alex and the Xanatoses, which could lead him to picking up some of their amoral qualities, which could lead us all the closer to a certain future tense version of Lexington. Oh the possibilities.

BTW, was any other cool trivia revealed at the Gathering?

BUD-CLARE - You wrote: [Maybe Brentwood _is_ gay... _and_ Lex's future mate. Narcissism should not be ruled out. ;)]
I don't know about the genetics part at all, but I think it would be better if Brentwood wasn't gay, it could better identify him as an individual despite the fact that he's a clone. Of course I hope there's more to it then that, he needs to be more unique then just: Brentwood, the Heterosexual Clone with different colouring.
But that's sort of why I never much liked the idea of the new clones, it seems like it would be too much effort to make each of them unique; I thought Delilah was a good idea, you could get some sweet stories with her and Thailog, but beyond that, an entire clan of clones seems too extravagant, even for "Gargoyles". Granted, I've never seen an episode about the clones post the "Reckoning", not even "Genesis Undone", so I'm not really one to judge.

Todd said: "I found it of interest that the diamond that Jackal and Hyena were out to steal and that Xanatos bought was the "Coyote Diamond". Sounds like a little foreshadowing reference to me."
I once asked Greg once about a possible connection between the diamond, the robot and/or the trickster. He responded "connections will be made someday". I wonder what it could be, though I somehow find it suspicious the J and H try to steel one Cyotoe and get teamed up with another two episodes later.

Well, I should go now. I'm using the internet of a friends house since I'm taking care of their cat while their away (my only job at the moment now since I can no longer move furniture); but I've got to go home and take my As-i-doll-fal-is <sp?> pill. I'm finally off of the antibiotics but their's no telling what they have done to my perfect immune system.

<Lord Sloth takes a skateboard and some chains out of his pocket, and rides gracefully backward into the closet in a Jacob Marley pose> Farewell.

<EXIT LORD SLOTH>
Lord Sloth - [spunkidge13@hotmail.com]
Kingston, ON, Canada
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 03:24:29 PM
IP: 67.69.141.142

DPH: I just watched this one recently. Othello gave her a handful of heather.

Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 12:17:22 PM
IP: 134.215.241.140

Shinigami - Well, considering I want to give out more points for the contest and I am wanting to score points, it would make sense to ask a relatively *easy* question. I can think of a couple of really hard questions, but I don't want to ask them *yet*.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 12:06:12 PM
IP: 204.94.193.64

DPH:

That's EASY.
Shinigami
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 11:26:21 AM
IP: 66.139.49.253

Ok, here is the next trivia question:

What kind of flower does Othello give Desdemona in "High Noon"?
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 11:10:34 AM
IP: 204.94.193.29

One other thing... those .EMF files can be used as clip art inside a Microsoft Word document.

Eric - [eric@s8.org]
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 09:43:38 AM
IP: 192.207.57.24

Just an FYI to anyone who is using the Illustrator (and other vector-based format) copies of the Gargoyles logo, I've updated them with some minor corrections to the text portion of the logo. I also cleaned up the Illlustrator copy and organized it properly.

You can get access to this stuff at:
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/archives/materials/

A 1024x768 JPEG of the clean logo is available at:
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/archives/wallpaper/gargoyles_logo_color_1024.jpg

Feel free to put copies of this stuff up on your own website. The goal is to make it so no one ever need to make a clean copy of the logo again. The PDF version is especially helpfull if you want to print out a full-page copy logo.

Eric - [eric@s8.org]
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 09:41:02 AM
IP: 192.207.57.24

DPH> yeah, sorry about that. i've been really busy and i hope i get this chance again, but for now i'd be happy for anyone to take over my question. i don't mind. anyone who wants to ask can go ahead, just make it a good one.
matt
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 09:36:54 AM
IP: 216.178.8.41

Matt - 24 hour notice. With 24 hours, either ask another question for the trivia contest or designate somebody else to ask the next question. If you don't, I'll step in to ask the next question and I do have a few questions prepared.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 12:16:42 AM
IP: 204.94.193.38

I rather like the thought that we could be getting new episode rambles soon. I'm looking forward to the ramble on "M.I.A." (I'd particularly like to see if Greg has any thoughts over how it was that Griff had a different attitude about "getting involved" than Leo and Una did.)

I was amused, also, by Greg's encounter with Tony Shalhoub, the guy who did the voice of the Emir in "Grief". (I recall Greg praising his voice work for the Emir at the Gathering 2001.)

I still wouldn't be surprised if, at some point soon, Greg does a little ramble about the big Lexington revelation....
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, July 7, 2003 09:55:32 PM
IP: 171.75.195.38

Looks like Greg Weisman will start rambling about episodes when he's done with his gathering journal.Last I remember,he was at "Sancturary." I really got to see what these gathering things are like, at least once.

As for Leader...

Not much else I can say that hasn't been said already, but I like how coyote just takes the metal gate off and impresses the pack (though how would the guards survive a metal gate getting tossed on top of them? The gate must weigh a couple tons at least).
Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Monday, July 7, 2003 09:34:36 PM
IP: 24.195.9.64

Well, the end of "Hunter's Moon" (as in the very last scene) focuses more on the fact that the gargoyles are back in the castle, their feud with Xanatos is happily over, and that Goliath and Elisa have kissed and doesn't say anything about the public's awareness of them after the rescue at the cathedral - so the audience just might have forgotten that issue at the very end because of everything else going on. Mind you, I think that we'll need to wait for Greg Weisman's rambles on "Hunter's Moon" and "The Journey" before we can get a proper answer to that question, however.

Watched my tape of "Leader of the Pack" today, by the way. It's not one of my favorites (the weak point of Pack episodes is that they often tend to focus more on simple slugfests, whereas episodes where the gargoyles are pitted directly against somebody like Xanatos or Demona or Macbeth have a stronger focus on characterization issues), but it has some fun moments in it.

One really great part is the very appropriate name for the new Pack member: Coyote. On the surface level, it's merely continuing the tradition of the Pack using "wild canid" names. However, there's a deeper significance. As the viewers of "Cloud Fathers" will know, Coyote is also a trickster figure in Native American folklore, and Coyote's whole function in "Leader of the Pack" is definitely that of a trickster.

For a start, Coyote "turns out" to be Xanatos, who is definitely a human trickster. But it goes even beyond that. For it turns out after that that Coyote wasn't really Xanatos after all, but a look-alike Xanatos robot, designed to fool the Pack and the gargoyles alike. And, to top it all off, Coyote's freeing the Pack and leading it against the gargoyles wasn't even the central part of Xanatos's plan; the central part was getting Fox out of prison on parole so that she and Xanatos could be reunited. All of which makes the name of a trickster for that robot very appropriate.

And, of course, we have the scene where Bronx gnaws away at Coyote's face to give him the trademark half-human/half-robot look. (At least Coyote never started flipping coins. :)) I wonder what first-time viewers thought of that scene (I can't even remember my response to that now, alas.) Followed by Hyena's eager cry of "Even better!" (Which we see more of in "Upgrade", of course. Hyena's interest in robots is probably one of the most disturbing moments in the series; even Jackal isn't thrilled by it, and this is a guy whose idea of a good time is remodelling Goliath's features in his stone sleep. Maybe Jackal's one of those people who prefers violence over sex. :) )

The scene where Lexington blows away Coyote is definitely disturbing as well. Anybody besides me get the feeling that, in the mood he was in, he'd have been ready to do the same thing to the non-robotic members of the Pack?

And I get a chuckle out of Owen delivering information to the gargoyles about the Pack's whereabouts as if he was inviting them to a social event....
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, July 7, 2003 06:50:55 PM
IP: 171.75.194.94

11th in the name of my lucky number!

"Reawakening"> my FAVORITE episode and a big reason is because the way it so wonderfully ended a season. it totally wrapped everything up but still left plenty of loose ends if the series continued. while i LOVE "Hunters Moon" i don't think it did as well of job as this. revealing the Clan to the human world was just so huge of a thing. unless greg and everyone KNEW they'd be coming back for Season 3, they shouldn't have done it. and today we are left with a series that ends abruptly in the middle of its biggest story arc (Elisa/Goliath included). of course, i have the benefit of retrospect. but IMHO, i think "Reawkening" was a better season closer.

and i guess to be honest, i never have been thrilled that the gargoyles were discovered by humanity. i wish they could've continued to have to hide for awhile. not forever, but awhile. *shrugs* still a wonderful series of course...

later
matt
Monday, July 7, 2003 02:35:27 PM
IP: 207.230.48.98

Tenth in the name of love!
Spacebabie
Monday, July 7, 2003 12:56:46 PM
IP: 4.72.104.205

A bit more on "Re-Awakening" now, delayed from yesterday since the room was getting close to being cleared.

One thing that occurred to me when I watched it this time around was that, if Disney hadn't gone with a Season Two for "Gargoyles", "Re-Awakening" would have at least made a good ending to the series. After all, it leaves Goliath and his clan with some purpose in life now - to protect the city - brought about through a dramatically effective confrontation with Xanatos, Demona, and Coldstone. Though I'm still grateful that they did a Season Two.

The storekeeper, Mr. Jaffe (they called him that in a later episode - "Protection", I believe) was a fun character in his response to the thief who keeps on robbing his store; his tone towards the thief wasn't fear so much as a fed-up annoyance over the way that the thief keeps on (apparently) singling out his store to rob) - as he puts it at the end "Not again! Can't you rob someone else this time?" Of course, his response isn't too surprising, when you think about it, given that this is New York. :)

I still get a kick out of the scene where Demona introduces Xanatos to Coldstone as "my servant", and Xanatos promptly gives her a dirty look. And the scene where the trio are watching "Bambi" - "Boy, this surround sound is really great!"

One thing that I've sometimes wondered about Coldstone is this. For him, being turned into a cyborg is a different experience than it would be for you or me, because he comes from a time period that knew nothing about advanced technology. So he doesn't even know what these things are that are now a part of him, such as his built-in laser gun (another great moment is when he first uses it on Goliath and is then staring in shocked disbelief at it). It raises an interesting question: which is worse, being turned into a cyborg when you have only a medieval level of knowledge and don't know what those strange metal parts on you are, or being turned into a cyborg when you *do* know what being a cyborg is?

Another nice little touch: there's a tie-in with the end of "Her Brother's Keeper" with the snow; it starts coming down at the end of "Her Brother's Keeper", and New York is still snow-covered in "Re-Awakening".
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, July 7, 2003 07:51:11 AM
IP: 171.75.194.59

8th
Leo
Monday, July 7, 2003 07:23:50 AM
IP: 68.96.8.12

7

...days to live my life or seven ways to die...
The Coma-man
Berlin, Germany
Monday, July 7, 2003 06:58:10 AM
IP: 217.87.9.191

sixth.

just posted my g2k3 diary or whatever on the weekly update page.

http://s8.org/gargoyles/update.php

Includes links to pictures taken by Wingless and IRC Goliath.

Enjoy
Eric - [eric@s8.org]
Monday, July 7, 2003 03:02:42 AM
IP: 151.203.236.50

..................Fifth.

Vin
castle0909
Monday, July 7, 2003 02:05:53 AM
IP: 64.12.96.71

Ah, fourth. Nicely done.
ColdFire
Monday, July 7, 2003 01:29:08 AM
IP: 24.87.61.4

Oh well, it's 3rd in the name of logic!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, July 7, 2003 12:21:01 AM
IP: 204.94.193.21

2nd in the name of logic.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, July 7, 2003 12:19:03 AM
IP: 204.94.193.21

2nd in the name of the Fay!

MC
Mooncat
Monday, July 7, 2003 12:18:23 AM
IP: 68.102.0.23

First!

TODD - You wrote: [I'm not quite certain as to how anything going on between Dingo and Hyena would be Shakespearean]

I was thinking Shakespearean in terms of the crowd that Prince Hal hung around with in the play; I figured that some history with Hyena could be more personalized version of this rather than bringing up the Pack every single time his past comes up.
Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Monday, July 7, 2003 12:04:01 AM
IP: 12.88.199.171