A Station Eight Fan Web Site

Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending March 1, 2004

Index : Show Images

Hey, can you believe it? There's 159 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!
Patrick
Sunday, February 29, 2004 10:44:23 AM
IP: 65.43.169.162

DPH - One other element about the event in "Vows" that might be significant. The Demona from 1995 never specified that the Wyvern Massacre was carried out by the Vikings, but said only that it was done by "humans". This term could have easily misled Demona-975 to believe that it was the humans living in Castle Wyvern who killed the gargoyles rather than the Vikings (especially since she wouldn't even have known about Hakon and his followers yet, who weren't due to arrive for another nineteen years). Likewise, Demona-1995, while telling Demona-975 that Goliath was turned to stone by the humans, never mentions that it was done at his own despairing request, again allowing Demona-975 to jump to the wrong conclusion.

This makes Demona's betrayal particularly interesting, since it becomes a case of an attempt to avoid a dark future being the very thing that causes that dark future to come about. (Another example is Duncan attempting to get rid of Macbeth and his family so that they won't overthrow him, which very efforts lead to Macbeth overthrowing Duncan in 1040).

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, February 29, 2004 08:51:20 AM
IP: 171.75.244.17

DPH - "Are there any other single events that directly led to the massacre? I'm not talking about actions over time, but single events. "

1) Katherine demoting the Captain of the Guard (for his wanting to recognize the Gargoyle's bravery in repelling the Viking attack) -- No downsized Captain, no deal with the Vikings, no massacre.

2) Demona going along with the Captain's plan. If she'd ratted him out things might have happened differently.

Those two things were probably pivotal points, but the pivot points are built on all the other build up as well, including Katherine's upbringing which somehow gave her an antipathy for Gargoyles.

Katherine we saw had a poor upbringing in regards to Gargoyles (her father using them as a boogey man of all things... *shakes head*) But... I wonder about the Magus, if he got his prejudice from aping the princess, or from his master, the Archmage, or just his own personal experience.

Mooncat

Mooncat
Sunday, February 29, 2004 03:26:12 AM
IP: 68.102.17.133

Hehe. I believe Demona's looks in City of Stone can mainly be attributed to the stress she was dealing with. Malnourishment/ starvation wouldn't have been big factors unless humans couldn't get a hold of food.

I have another question which I'm sure has been asked repeatedly over the years. What were the big single event factors that led to the massacre?

I rank the past tense events of "Vows" up there, not because history is immutable, but because of its mere shock value: what gargoyle with a heart wouldn't try to prevent that?

The 2nd event that I keep thinking about is the unseen event: the death of Princess Katherine's father. Would anyone argue that if Princess Katherine's father hadn't died that the massacre would take place?

The last event on my list would be Demona becoming the Archmage's apprentice. Her dealings with him gave her a perpective of humanity at its worst.

Are there any other single events that directly led to the massacre? I'm not talking about actions over time, but single events.

DPH
AR, USA
Sunday, February 29, 2004 01:08:40 AM
IP: 67.14.195.37

Talon: I think hormones might explain some of her personality, but I think her worn-down appearance is more due to malnorishment and starvation.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Saturday, February 28, 2004 11:21:49 PM
IP: 132.170.32.223

Site update! Two new pics of Damien and a few bits of other news. Clicke or go to http://www.eskimo.com/~vecna/new_stuff.html
Christine - [<--- new stuff!]
Saturday, February 28, 2004 01:36:38 PM
IP: 208.187.15.157

:: trumpetters sound the herald ::

Hear ye, hear ye! The Gathering Countdown has returned!

33 days left before Gathering 2004 pre-registration prices increase (last day is March 31).
34 days left to submit artwork and stories for the Gathering Anthology (deadline is April 1).
64 days left to submit entries for the Gathering T-shirt contest (deadline is May 1).
125 days left to submit entries for the Music Video contest (deadline is July 1).
130 days left to reserve your hotel room at the Delta Centre-Ville (deadline is July 6 at noon).

And finally...

160 days left until The Gathering 2004 in Montreal, Quebec!

Click my name or visit www.gatheringofthegargoyles.com

Patrick
Saturday, February 28, 2004 11:33:58 AM
IP: 65.43.228.197

Talon: I always thought it was her fugitive life that was taking its toll on her. She was just so tired of having to fight for the right to exist, so tired of being alone that the years were taking their toll on her. So she aged sooner, so to speak. And I don't think she was lacking strength; remember her bashing a gate down with a mace? Killing two humans with one blow? Sending Macbeth flying with one swipe of her tail? She was definitely strong; just not pretty, and I think it's pretty understandable. But when she got older and her hair turned white, then yeah, she was definitely not as strong as she used to be.
Demona Taina
Saturday, February 28, 2004 09:14:00 AM
IP: 172.168.84.212

You know how Goliath said that Gargoyles age at half the rate of humans? Well I was wondering how Demona became so decrepit in just 40 years ie, not only becoming a gargoyle in the true sense (montrously ugly instead of beautiful) but also having no strength. Does anyone think that the answer might be estragon? Perhaps a female gargoyle automatically looses her strength at her menopause? Therefore being eternally young would be a great bonus for her, whereas Macbeth would not be all that impaired by being her age.
Talon
Saturday, February 28, 2004 04:50:37 AM
IP: 129.234.4.10

Jim R> i know what you mean, i feel the same way about some of my earlier posts, lol.

probably won't be by for a week or so. leaving for Seattle tommorrow for vacation!

matt
Saturday, February 28, 2004 02:14:05 AM
IP: 207.230.48.55

Toon Disney is still showing Gargoyles on this side of the pond. Hopefully, they'll finish this run. I have misplaced two Goliath Chronicles episodes that I need for a full set. Although, I ain't gonna cry about them if I miss them. Everything is done on my dvds except those 2 episodes on the last disc, and the bonus disc. I've kinda put the whole thing on hold till I get those last eps.
Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
SC, USA
Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:43:37 AM
IP: 66.220.76.190

Google search> About the only method I've seen via other site searches through Google is to search Google with a query in the following format: "<your query> site:www.s8.org". For example, I typed this into the Google search box: Jim R. site:www.s8.org

The results returned all references of my name on this site only to any questions I've asked in the archives, and comment room backups. (Spending a few minutes looking back, I can't believe how nieve and ignorant I came off sounding in some of my questions to Greg. *Sigh* I feel stupid and ashamed right now.) Anyways, I'm not certain how accurate this form of search would be for a query like "What did Titania whisper to Fox?", but in any case it goes to show that Google does have its ties to archives.

As a simple solution, a search box could easily be put on this site. A user simply types in what they wish to search for. Clicking submit would automatically append the "site:www.s8.org" info to tell Google that only this site be searched.

Jim R. - [jim@dialwforwarp.com]
Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:06:39 AM
IP: 65.41.207.11

I suppose one way to cut down on "Ask Jeeves" style questions would be to change the name of the section. Perhaps to something that reflects a little more the comment/discussion emphasis that began with the episode rambles and suchlike. No specific ideas yet though.
Ed
Friday, February 27, 2004 11:17:14 PM
IP: 131.111.8.96

I suspect that the reason why Gorebash hasn't implemented the search feature for "Ask Greg" as yet is that he hasn't had time due to being so busy with regular work. I remember that he had to turn the clearing questions job over to me because he no longer had the time to do it himself (if he was the one still doing it, I suspect that Greg would still be stuck with the questions from 2000).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, February 27, 2004 06:46:55 PM
IP: 171.75.194.78

Sheltie> "For a start Toon Disney appears to have stopped running Gargoyles altogether again."

Yeah I noticed that as well. Seems they stopped showing it at weekends a month before half term and have now just stopped showing it altogether. Oh well. :(

Jim R> "I thought I read an article explaining how easy it is to bundle a web search of your site from Google"

I'm sure if you just typed in 'Ask Greg' and then the thing you're looking for into the google search engine it should bring up a link to the appropriate page in the archives e.g. If you type in 'Ask Greg The Pack' you should get a couple of links to the Ask Greg pages on The Pack. Try it yourself and see what you come up with.

But what would be good is if a search engine could actually take you to individual questions, thus cutting out a lot of search time (even if you use the method I showed above you would still have to filter through the many questions to find the one you're looking for, (if it's there)). Is this possible and could we be able to use it on Ask Greg?

Faieq
Friday, February 27, 2004 02:32:09 PM
IP: 212.159.30.247

I have 2 ideas that might help.

1)Put the Submit field is on a seperate page. When you click "Go to the submission page", a full-screen pop up of the FAQ loads along with the submission field. And it's one of those ultra-annoying pop ups that reloads whenever you close it.

2)Have all the Ask Greg questions go to a freebie (Yahoo! or something) email address. That would be very simple for a moderator to delete bad ones, than send a generic "your submission couldn't go through" message as a reply.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Friday, February 27, 2004 12:57:59 PM
IP: 132.170.32.223

*lightbulb* I wonder how effective (or costly for that matter) it would be to tie Ask Greg into Google? I thought I read an article explaining how easy it is to bundle a web search of your site from Google. Just a thought.
Jim R.
Friday, February 27, 2004 12:44:52 PM
IP: 69.68.48.137

Todd> ""Ask Greg" is not "Ask Jeeves". Please ask Greg Weisman only questions relevant to himself, to "Gargoyles", or other shows that he has worked on (such as "Max Steel")."

On the contrary, Ask Greg should be Ask Jeeves, in relation to the fact that Ask Jeeves has a search feature. Gorebash mentioned about a year or so ago about Ask Greg going into an SQL database, which woud allow searches to be performed (possibly by category as arranged in the archives) rather than trying to pour through the archives looking for the needle in the haystack. I wonder if that idea is still in progress or was abandoned?

Jim R. - [jim@dialwforwarp.com]
Friday, February 27, 2004 12:38:20 PM
IP: 69.68.48.137

Now, I know less than zilch about coding something like Ask Greg, but would it be hard to set it so that everyone who asked a question had to leave an email address, and then, when a question was deleted, the system sent a form letter to the submitted address, containing the question, and a response that went something like this:

Your question has been deleted from the Ask Greg list. If your question was deleted, it was probably for one of the following reasons:

1. Contained an original idea.
2. Contained multiple questions on different subjects.
3. Was a question that Greg has already answered. Please check the FAQ, Ask Greg Archive, or the S8 Comment Room. (Hyperlinked)
4. Asked Greg some random, general knowledge question/wanted him to do your homework for you.

Please review your question. If you feel your question did not fall under any of the following, and have explored all alternate sources of information named in #3, you can write to the Ask Greg admins here: (Insert email for the expanded keepers of AG committee)

Now, somebody with some coding experience come along and point out my painful ignorance of why this is unworkable. ;)
Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
Friday, February 27, 2004 10:50:31 AM
IP: 66.139.49.253

Ed - <It might be better if the question box was on a
separate page (perhaps under the FAQ index!) so while it would be easy to find, it wouldn't be quite the first
thing that anybody is going to stumble onto..> Actually, I would almost suggest making it where you can't go directly to the submit button, even if you wanted to. Putting the submit button on a separate page wouldn't do much good at all if there was an easy to find link to it located either on the top of the page, buttom of the page, or one either side of the page. However, all you're doing there is making it anti-newbie friendly.

I agree with the old suggestion that when you hit the submit one to ask a question, you get a page indicating the search results for an answer to that question. Then you have to wait for a timer, let's see 10-15 seconds, before continuing the process of submitting a question. Hopefully, the 10-15 second wait will be long enough to force the person to read through the search results before submitting a frequently asked question. But that alone isn't enough screening. I would also combine the above with a system allowing a committee to quote Greg's previous responses to answer questions.

I've also been leaning more towards every question being numbered as it is submitted and on the page where you submit questions (and click to confirm) there is highly noticable text indicating how many questions are already in line to be answered.

And yes, I hope the submit button stays disabled for a few months. Next time it gets reopened is after 2004 Gathering to allow the next round of gathering journals to be submitted and then shut down again after 3 months.

Actually, I would advocate setting up a separate forum up to catch this year's Gathering Reports. Anything other than Gathering Reports would be deleted from that forum.

DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, February 26, 2004 08:10:31 PM
IP: 67.14.195.41

I wonder if it's more to do with the placement of the question box actually. It's on the first page so people might just skip to asking their question and read the guidelines later. It might be better if the question box was on a separate page (perhaps under the FAQ index!) so while it would be easy to find, it wouldn't be quite the first thing that anybody is going to stumble onto..
Ed
Thursday, February 26, 2004 07:25:48 PM
IP: 131.111.8.98

AG>> I think the main problem is the location of the guidelines. Although they're in yellow in the middle of white text, they are at the top of the screen or at least well above the actual question submission section. I think that what's happening is that newbies are just scrolling through the text and jumping right to the questions (which would even negate a link - they'd just scroll to the link). Maybe a simple relocation of the guidlines closer to the submission section would help?

Text placement... it's more vital than people realize.

Alex Garg - [alex_garg@yahoo.com]
VA, USA
Thursday, February 26, 2004 07:14:38 PM
IP: 216.145.68.130

Yes, I'll admit that there doesn't seem to be an easy solution. We may just have to put up with the people who refuse to read the Archives and Greg's explanation for why the show ended (maybe they're mostly little kids or people with so little time on their hands that they don't have the opportunity to read the Archives) in order to ensure enough newbies to revive "Gargoyles" in some way, shape, or form.

*sigh*

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, February 26, 2004 06:38:03 PM
IP: 171.75.244.194

Hi folks
Well things just keep getting better. For a start Toon Disney appears to have stopped running Gargoyles altogether again.
Besides that, we've had blizzards most of the week, so the house is freezing and everywhere's closed - college, schools etc. Not seen a bus since yesterday, boats are still stuck in aberdeen, and shops are apparently running low on fresh goods. But, as my luck would have it, I also found out that my rescheduled Med Lit exam is on monday morning - by which time the weather is meant to have eased, so I'll have to sit it :(
I've not actually had any contact with my tutor since tuesday though, so no idea what the situation is if weather is still bad.

I've never submitted anything to AG so haven't actually looked at the submit page, but if you had to read through the notice Todd has suggested (complete with archive links) to find the link to the submit form at the very bottom of the page, perhaps that would help?

It's getting late, I'd better get offline & see if i'm working tomorrow morning (which I doubt), or if I can have a lie in before hitting the books.
Wish me luck - I'm gonna need it!

Sheltie
Shetland, UK
Thursday, February 26, 2004 06:24:20 PM
IP: 81.131.238.212

But what system will prevent these lame questions but not alienate people new to the series, especially more people may mean more DVDs getting bought? That's the tossup, clear questions and you may drive away new fans(those who are interested, not the homework questions), keep the questions and you drive the older fans nuts. Just hope we don't have another situation where Todd gets blasted for something that's not in his control and really can't do anything about it...
Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Thursday, February 26, 2004 05:51:43 PM
IP: 128.113.148.78

*SARCASTICALLY*
yeah, posting a warning and pointing people towards the archives and FAQ has always worked before...

its gonna take a lot more than that. i hope the queue doesn't reopen for a long time, and when it does i hope a new system of some sort is in place even if that system is simply giving Todd more veto power.

matt
Thursday, February 26, 2004 04:27:07 PM
IP: 207.230.48.17

Good ideas, Todd. It might also be good to warn potential posters that the wait time for answers is severals months long. That would deter casual passers-by who won't be around to see the answers to their questions.


Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
Thursday, February 26, 2004 08:21:27 AM
IP: 134.215.241.134

Argh, 1. should read "He has *answered* those questions numerous times."
Todd Jensen
Thursday, February 26, 2004 07:02:23 AM
IP: 171.75.194.52

I think that, when the submit function is activated again, we need to find some way of making certain that we won't get another deluge of the too-often-asked questions. Maybe a notice that goes something like this:

1. Please do not ask Greg Weisman why "Gargoyles" ended or whether it will return. He has asked these questions numerous times. [This should probably also contain a link directly to the part in the archives where he gave his ramble about why Disney cancelled the series.]

2. "Ask Greg" is not "Ask Jeeves". Please ask Greg Weisman only questions relevant to himself, to "Gargoyles", or other shows that he has worked on (such as "Max Steel"). Do not ask him for answers to your school projects.

3. Please, PLEASE check the archives first before submitting your question, to make certain that it hasn't been submitted by other people several times before.

And there should be also something to make it clear that it's really for these people's own benefit that they don't keep asking these worn-out or irrelevant questions over and over because they hold the queue and require Greg to take a much longer time getting to the "good questions". (Not to mention that this way, the rest of the fandom doesn't reach the point where they start developing murderous intentions towards the people asking those frivolous questions.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, February 26, 2004 07:01:20 AM
IP: 171.75.194.52

Rac: [Off-topic, but didn't the original Star Trek get canned in it's first couple seasons for not getting high ratings or not hitting the audience that the networks were looking for?]

NBC did cancel ST:TOS because it was never hit high in the ratings, but it was a hit with a certain age bracket that the networks tended to ignore at that time (if memory serves me right: I can't / am too lazy to locate the source of this info bit :)
TC
Thursday, February 26, 2004 06:55:00 AM
IP: 203.167.26.48

Ok, the current number of questions in line is 858. To finish processing all the Gathering Journals from 2002, Greg Weisman would have to clear the next 274 questions. The last gathering 2002 journal is here:

received from 209.33.140.99 on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 05:02:20 PM
Aaron writes...

There's roughly 23 weeks until the next Gathering. If Greg Weisman averaged 12 questions per week between now and the next Gathering, he could process all the Gathering 2002 journals before the 2004 Gathering Journals would be submitted. Honestly, I don't care if he does, but I thought I would shed some light on my earlier comments about shutting down the submission button until the Gathering 2002 journals were processed.

DPH
AR, USA
Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:48:21 AM
IP: 67.14.195.36

Todd - I know you can't delete the 'stupid' questions, but hearing how far along you were was important in judging the quality of questions, considering a remembered several frivilous questions being asked last time the submission button was reactivated.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that there are exactly 862 questions in backlog as of right now (based on manipulating certain html codes.) If Greg Weisman answers an average of 3 questions per day 5 days a week, it would take about 57.5 weeks to clean the current backlog. If he answers an average of 5 questions per day 5 days a week, it would take about 34.5 weeks to clean the current backlog. In the unlikely event he answers an average of 7 questions per day 5 day a week, it would still take slightly more than 24.5 weeks to clean the current backlog. [I haven't counted how many questions he would have to clear to get through all the 2002 Gathering Journals.]

DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:52:46 PM
IP: 161.31.104.148

QUESTION - You wrote: [Thought it also had a few things going for it. The Fantome trying to start a world war and falsely recruiting many of the heroes in order to reverse engineer and create new weapons.]

The problem with this is not that it wasn't a good idea but that the movie doesn't give the feeling of the era to it; the setting is the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century prior to WW I. Its supposed to be a more innocent and optimistic time which increases the evil of what the villain in the movie is planning. None of the characters are supposed to have an understanding of what a World War could be like - the concept should be hard to grasp, hard to believe. The problem is that the cast discovers the plot, is shocked and moves on to do something about it. Fine for normal superheroics but I could get that in any standard superhero story. The interest in LoEG is the setting and the characters it uses. The setting is essentially unimportant in the movie as it has little to no influence and the characters could essentially be changed with either completely new creations or with actual comic book characters and it wouldn't make a difference. I didn't get the feeling of majesty and excitement your supposed to get when the retired Alan Quatermain was sought out. That scene as an example was supposed to be like seeing Indiana Jones at the end of his career, with an aura of greatness for his legend surrounding but also pity for where he ended up when all the adventures were finished. There isn't any terror when confronting a murderer like Edward Hyde and there wasn't any feeling of optimism just from being in the presence of Tom Sawyer. Mina Harker at least gave off some mystery for the first twenty minutes but only to the cast and not to the audience. (On that point it might have just been me since I knew that Mina Harker was the character from Dracula so I was expecting something vampire related; someone who didn't recognize the name might have been more suprised.) But essentially after the battle at Dorian Grey's home, once the mystery is revealed to the cast, there is no sense of dread, of reluctance in being around her. She's supposed to be a Vampire but nobody was relating to her that way.

You wrote: [I think the movie might work better if you didn't comparing it to Moore's work. Frankly the ones in the movie are just completely different characters than the ones in the book. Not as realize as Moore's, but they worked imo.]

I usually can accept the difference between the comic version of a character and the movie version of one; I understand that there is always going to be something changed or lost in the change of format. Jeckel/Hyde doesn't have to be like the comic version; but based on the name there should be something of the book and GN version of the character left behind. Hyde is supposed to be a monserous murderer and Jeckel is supposed to be a broken man losing himself to a monster. I didn't get that from the movie. Hyde turns out to be likable and willing to cooperate with the group. He's not even selfish in dealings with the group - he doesn't have any secret agendas or engages in any questionable behavior. Why not just call him Hulk-Lite?

You wrote: [Thought it was more like Avengers or Suicide Squad.]

Suicide Squad might be a closer description although none of the group in the movie was being blackmailed into joining the team. It becomes sort of Avenger-ish at the end when they split on decent terms and leave the door open to having them willingly join forces sometime down the line. I called them X-Men-ish because that movie is pretty much the measuring stick for superhero movies these days (since basically its the only good superhero team movie out at this point).

You wrote: [I always thought superhero comics upheld the status quo. Stuff like Rising Stars, Authority and Kingdom Come shook it up, but normal DC and Marvel stuff just had the heroes preserving the present version of society not trying to cure its injustices.]

Technically your right; standard superheroics usually upholds the status quo. But thats just because the heroes we've seen are willing to let it stay that way. Superheroics is technically glorified vigilantism and the bottom line problem in the formula is that if Superman decided to do something that the government didn't like, whats the government going to do about it? (Thats sort of the point Hyperion makes well in this months issue of Supreme Powers - he went to China to speak with someone but since he just flew over without permission or a passport it caused a diplomatic incident; and when he got called on it by his liason officer, he basically states the honest truth. Who's going to stop him if he decides he wants to go somewhere?)

Books like Authority, and Kingdom Come are good because they play with this flaw; what if the JLA decided that it wanted to change the world? (Stormwatch/Authority by the way was only good during the Ellis run on the book; after he left the sinister, scary bits got lost in favor of extreme left wing politics.)


DPH - You wrote: [BTW, lately, when I've been watching "Protection", I keep thinking how the bombing would potentially be viewed different in the post 9-11 world.]

I think about that but in terms of the Clocktower bombing in HUNTERS MOON. Gargoyles Universe NYC tended to have more bombing happen - it wasn't just PROTECTION and HUNTERS MOON, it was also in UPGRADE. And this is without counting the various battles that the Gargoyles has that caused property damage; not to mention Fortress I and II constantly falling out of the sky. (Would something like Fortress II even be allowed near NYC in a post 9-11 world?)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Wednesday, February 25, 2004 11:13:59 AM
IP: 12.75.128.74

DPH - Unfortunately, I can't erase "stupid questions"; my instructions only allow me to erase questions with ideas in them or multiple subject ones. So if it's just a question from somebody who wasn't paying too much attention to the show (or who can't figure things out on his/her own and has to have Greg spell out everything to him/her), I can't erase it.

And I've gotten all the way down to the point where the queue was halted.

We really need to find some way of making the people who keep on asking the questions "Why did 'Gargoyles' end?" or "Will it come back?" realize that they're only making Greg take longer in getting to the interesting questions.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, February 25, 2004 07:30:49 AM
IP: 171.75.194.103

Airwalker<The interesting idea that the movie was based on is the only thing good about the movie.>

Thought it also had a few things going for it. The Fantome trying to start a world war and falsely recruiting many of the heroes in order to reverse engineer and create new weapons.

<They took away all the dark parts that make the GN interesting (Compare Hyde and the Invisible Man in the movie against what we got in the GN - its like night and day)>

I think the movie might work better if you didn't comparing it to Moore's work. Frankly the ones in the movie are just completely different characters than the ones in the book. Not as realize as Moore's, but they worked imo.

<tried to go for 19th century X-Men.>

Thought it was more like Avengers or Suicide Squad.

<True; Did he ever finish Rising Stars? >

Nope. There was a dispute just resolved recently, I think, over the Rising Star movie or something and Straczynski refused to hand over the scripts for the last few issues because of it.

<Isn't that pretty much most Superhero stories taken to their logical conclusions? Kingdom Come is a prominent example.>

I always thought superhero comics upheld the status quo. Stuff like Rising Stars, Authority and Kingdom Come shook it up, but normal DC and Marvel stuff just had the heroes preserving the present version of society not trying to cure its injustices(look at Superman he allowed Lex Luthor to stay in the White House).

Rac<Off-topic, but didn't the original Star Trek get canned in it's first couple seasons for not getting high ratings or not hitting the audience that the networks were looking for? My college professor said something about that and they came back 15 years later or so... >

Yes but it got incredible ratings later on when the show was being reaired which lead to the movies and later the spinoffs. Also the television landscapewas very different when the show was being aired. There were only a handful of major channels which allowed Trek to stay on. If Trek aired now, it'd have been cancelled sooner than Firefly.

Question
Wednesday, February 25, 2004 06:41:44 AM
IP: 144.92.164.199

Rac - <wonder if Greg plans on rambling soon, considering today's Ask Greg... > I kinda doubt it since submission is shut down at Ask Greg. It's not quite been a whole 3 weeks since submission was shut down.

New listing for stupid question posted at Ask Greg:

received from 205.188.209.112 on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 06:08:51 PM
matt8387 writes...

Did Hakon die before or after Macbeth was born?

Just from watching the episodes alone (without bothering to go online to look for information), I consider the answer to that question fairly obvious. Hmm, the backlog at Ask Greg is approximately 1.5 megabytes.

Todd - Just out of morbid curiosity, how far are you on clearing questions?

BTW, lately, when I've been watching "Protection", I keep thinking how the bombing would potentially be viewed different in the post 9-11 world.

DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, February 25, 2004 12:36:36 AM
IP: 67.14.195.26

Hmmn, wonder if Greg plans on rambling soon, considering today's Ask Greg...

Off-topic, but didn't the original Star Trek get canned in it's first couple seasons for not getting high ratings or not hitting the audience that the networks were looking for? My college professor said something about that and they came back 15 years later or so...

Rac
Troy, NY, USA
Tuesday, February 24, 2004 10:32:43 PM
IP: 24.194.45.12

BISHANSKY - Shouldn't that be two years, not three? (There's only a two-year-difference between 1991 and 1993.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, February 24, 2004 07:35:12 PM
IP: 171.75.195.93

That lawsuit was dismissed. The bastard claimed that he created "Gargoyles" in 1993, and his agent went behind his back and showed it to Disney.

Wheras Greg and his crew started working on this show in 1991. Three years before this douche claimed he did.

Funny enough, I have a friend who took an art class this guy was teaching, and heard about this a couple years before I even got into the fandom.

Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, February 24, 2004 01:39:25 PM
IP: 216.179.3.197

Hey,

What ever happened with that lawsuit between Disney and that New York artist who had created the original gargoyle screenplay and characters in 1992 and presented it to Disney?
Julio Roman - [Nagbarong1@aol.com]
Goshen, Conn., USA
Tuesday, February 24, 2004 08:46:12 AM
IP: 24.44.104.36

Leo> *swears* I spent an hour looking for that. The only explanation I can think of is that I searched that page for references to "Nashville", which wouldn't have worked...but I could swear I always used "Tachi". Grr.

Thank you. :)

Bud-Clare
Tuesday, February 24, 2004 12:50:37 AM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Bud-Clare: {I spent awhile last night trying to find Nashville's age, but I couldn't find it in Ask Greg.}

I found it in the "Questions Answered" Archive under "Time Dancer"

(recorded on 01-18-02) Greg responds...

"3. Katana is Biologically 40.
Nash is 19 (bilologically 10).
Tachi is an egg."


:)




Leo
Monday, February 23, 2004 11:25:53 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

QUESTION - You wrote: [Thats because nobody can write the New Gods except Kirby. Everyone that tried from Simonson to Byrne has failed one way or another.]

Yeah but when Byrne touches Fourth World concepts, its a trainwreck. Simonson didn't do any better but Byrne shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the ideas. (And while I agree that only Kirby really did justice to the Fourth World and that I overall didn't like Simonson's New Gods work, I did think he did one story well - the origin of Kanto. In particular the last 3 pages of that story when he has Kanto confront Kanto 13; he managed to get Darkseid just right in that last page.)

You wrote: [You mean War Within Vol. 1 don't you? The Dark Ages is the 2nd one.]

Yeah, thats what I was talking about.

You wrote: [I think Beast Wars/Machines should be better left alone.]

I mainly want to see more of Silverbolt and Blackarachnia; I thought that they were particularly interesting characters and always enjoyed their romance/plotline. Thats the main reason I wouldn't mind seeing a BW/BM comic done.

You wrote: [Nemesis and latter Endgame provided enought closure.]

Nemesis gave satisfying open-ended closure. Endgame (to be nice and non-vulgar) just didn't. I'm not saying that Endgame was particularly bad - it wasn't. It did have some strong weaknesses in it (the strategy the Maximals followed, the fact that they stuck with Primal at all that deep into the series, and having the end of the series basically reduced the whole thing to a Primal/Megatron fight to the exclusion of the rest of the cast which gave the ending when the cast finally did show up an extremely disjointed feeling to it) but it also had some strengths (Megatron using Primals old body to kick his ass - I mean he used that body better in a half an episode than Primal did in an entire season) to it.

(What really disappointed me was that while I could buy the idea that Rattrap and Blackarachnia didn't bug out the moment Primal started talking about his messianic visions because the Oracle tampered with them, I just couldn't believe that once Silverbolt reappeared that he and Blackarachnia didn't leave to form their own faction. He returned as a cynic which should have gotten him fed up to the point of storming out with Primal's stargazing and Cheetors 20ish "I'm next in chain of command so there!" arrogance. I mean from all the cast he at least managed to bring up at the point they thought they won that Megatron tended to follow standard villain cliches and could reappear from the dead and that they shouldn't prematurely celebrate only to be blown off by Primal.)

You wrote: [What was so bad about it? I thought it was a pretty interesting story by itself.]

The interesting idea that the movie was based on is the only thing good about the movie. While I did enjoy that they put in Dorian Grey (I was forced to read that damn story in High School so at least I got the reference; the friend I went with to see it needed an expliantion on who the hell he was) and I got a chuckle out of Sean Connery's first five minutes on the screen, the rest just fell flat. They took away all the dark parts that make the GN interesting (Compare Hyde and the Invisible Man in the movie against what we got in the GN - its like night and day) and tried to go for 19th century X-Men. Except compared with Tom Sawyer, comic book Cyclops is the life of the party.

You wrote: [More like Straczynski's take of his own Rising Stars.]

True; Did he ever finish Rising Stars? I know that I pretty much stopped reading it about 5 issues in. The premise was interesting but he just wasn't holding my interest with the pacing. (It didn't help that the book was constantly coming out late when I did have an interest; if it ended, did it at least have an interesting ending?)

You wrote: [Everyone of his original stories that i've read has the heroes trying to topple the voice of authority and setting up their own regime.]

Isn't that pretty much most Superhero stories taken to their logical conclusions? Kingdom Come is a prominent example.


GREG BISHANSKY - You wrote: [And I've never liked Superman so I can't agree with any of the books on him you recommended, sorry ;)]

I'm not crazy about Superman either but he has had some good stories put out here and there. Alan Moore's Last Superman story is pretty good (although thats probably because he spends a good chunk of it bashing Superman in it :-) ) and Byrnes reboot miniseries is still worth a read standing in the store. Beyond that all the good Superman stories I could recommend tend to be either in JLA when its more of a team story or together with Batman where its mostly Bruce Wayne holding up most of the story.

(I wouldn't recommend the actual Superman books being put out now though - I still can't get over the fact that they brought back Krypto the Wonder Dog! Krypto the Wonder Dog! I thought that when they ran out of ideas they would be subtle about the fact but no, they had to advertise it with Krypto the damn Wonder Dog! How long do you think it'll be until Beppo and the Wonder Twins show up?)

You wrote: [It's date, but Batman: Tales of the Demon is a good read.]

I'll take a look for it; I don't mind putting some effort to finding a TPB if its a Batman story. (Although I'm considering if I should pick up the TPBs of the recent Catwoman series; the Batbooks and Bat-related books have been unusually strong this year. I might also start picking up Robin later this year (or at least flip through it in the store) when they get rid of Tim Drake and put in his superpowered female replacement. :-) )

You wrote: [It also introduces Batman's greatest foe and my personal favorite Ra's al Ghul, featuring many of the original stories written by Dennis O'Neil.]

If you like O'Neil then you might want to take a look at the Green Lantern/Green Arrow TPBs; it collects his work on the series back in the 1970's. They could be considered a bit preachy by today's standards but it was groundbreaking when it came out - dealing with issues like racism and drug abuse. He made interesting use of the fact that Green Arrow was a extreme Communist.

You wrote: [There is Inu-Yasha, great manga. Slightly better than the anime IMO, though to a person ignorant of it, I'd recommend watching the anime on Adult Swim to see if you like it. The old Lupin III mangas are really good. And right now, Dark Horse is releasing the Manga of "Berserk" which is one of the greatest things ever IMO.]

For me on the Manga front I recommend Ai Yori Aoshi, Fruits Basket, Kindachi Case Files, Peach Girl, Battle Angel Alita, Guardian Angel Getten, Bow Wow Wata, Azumanga Daioh, GTO, and Oh My Goddess. (Trigun is something I recommend too but I haven't had a chance to pick up the volumes yet; same with One Piece, Marmalade Boy, and Excel Saga.)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Monday, February 23, 2004 11:23:03 PM
IP: 12.75.156.126

I spent awhile last night trying to find Nashville's age, but I couldn't find it in Ask Greg. Did Greg ever say how old Nash was when they got back to present-day Manhattan? He would have had to have been less than 20(10), otherwise Tachi would have hatched already, but beyond that...

Anyone else got anything?

Bud-Clare
Monday, February 23, 2004 09:38:03 PM
IP: 66.67.201.63

Break from class.

Talon, here is how Greg Weisman would answer your question...

I think the Thing is on an average day, stronger than the Hulk. But the madder Hulk gets the stronger he gets. So ultimately the Hulk is stronger. But that doesn't mean the Thing can't take him. Ben Grimm knows his stuff.

There. I hope we've finally put that question to rest.

Greg Bishansky
Monday, February 23, 2004 07:57:37 PM
IP: 199.93.82.183

I noticed there are no "wno would win" posts, so:

Who would win in a fight between Oberon and the enhanced Archmage (with the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and haveing ingested the Grimorum Arcanorum)

Talon
Monday, February 23, 2004 07:48:06 PM
IP: 129.234.4.76

AIRWALKER> Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. Question already corrected you on the title for "The War Within". And I've never liked Superman so I can't agree with any of the books on him you recommended, sorry ;)

As for a BW comic, I think a one-shot could be done... coughDarkcoughGlasscoughcough.

As for more recommendations. It's date, but Batman: Tales of the Demon is a good read. It was done in the early 70s and you can see Batman going through the transition from Just Another Do-Gooder in a Cape to the Dark Knight Detective. It also introduces Batman's greatest foe and my personal favorite Ra's al Ghul, featuring many of the original stories written by Dennis O'Neil. O'Neil later wrote the hardcover, painted "Birth of the Demon" revealing the origin of Ra's al Ghul.

On the Manga front. There is Inu-Yasha, great manga. Slightly better than the anime IMO, though to a person ignorant of it, I'd recommend watching the anime on Adult Swim to see if you like it. The old Lupin III mangas are really good. And right now, Dark Horse is releasing the Manga of "Berserk" which is one of the greatest things ever IMO. But I'd recommend watching the anime first, the box set is available on DVD, just to see if you like it, cause Berserk is not for every one. The anime is awesome, but the manga is better, but as far as a window into the manga is concerned, the anime is more than acceptable. The anime got me hooked.

And to end this, a manga I don't recommend. "Cowboy Bebop". The Anime is IMO the greatest anime ever, I love it. The manga came after to capitalize on it's success, and personally I thought it did a horrid job. Avoid it like the plague.

Greg Bishansky
Monday, February 23, 2004 11:25:24 AM
IP: 216.179.1.222

Rac> What I liked was about half of all the skiff episodes. Yes they where good but I did not like them because it took out the others. I liked the show each time I see them all. I like the episodes after the skiff too until they made the Goliath saga and it went down hill from there. I liked the avilon episodes, future tence, Bronx's episode and some others.

Ckyote>Yes it sucks that disny screwed up. What does this mean?

Demona Taina> You have not posted in a wile welcome back. You know you are right too. Dizny was pulling our legs this time exactly what I have been talking about. What a joke!

I am done here for now! Thanks for all your comments.

Bad Brook
Monday, February 23, 2004 08:55:32 AM
IP: 63.185.40.223

And I guess I'll call 10th!
Sheltie
Shetland, UK
Monday, February 23, 2004 08:04:36 AM
IP: 213.122.68.31

Yuk! 9th! :ooooooooooo
The Coma-man
Berlin, Germany
Monday, February 23, 2004 07:45:13 AM
IP: 217.87.9.13

8th
Graymonk
Monday, February 23, 2004 07:28:35 AM
IP: 198.164.140.100

Airwalker<everytime Byrne touches any of Kirby's Fourth World properties, the entire story goes to hell>

Thats because nobody can write the New Gods except Kirby. Everyone that tried from Simonson to Byrne has failed one way or another.

<From Transformers I personally enjoyed the Dark Ages mini, you know the one set at the beginning of the Great War - starting out the story with Optimus Prime as a pacifist librarian was interesting. >

You mean War Within Vol. 1 don't you? The Dark Ages is the 2nd one.

<Although I'd love to see a Beast Wars/Beast Machines comic.>

I think Beast Wars/Machines should be better left alone. Nemesis and latter Endgame provided enought closure. Primal is almost catching up to Optimus Prime in his number of resurrections and deaths.

<Don't remind me about the LoEG movie; that was an abomination against both God AND Man. I ask you all for forgiveness for the fact that I actually paid money to see it when it came out. >

What was so bad about it? I thought it was a pretty interesting story by itself. Action scenes needed alittle bit of work and the middle in Venice had a few problems, but I thought the premeise and story worked. Yes it deviated from Moore's story, but it worked as a popcorn flick.

<Supreme Power is an interesting book although its basically Marvel's take on JLA.>

More like Straczynski's take of his own Rising Stars.

<Its well done though and I am curious if they are going to have the book go in the same direction the original Squadron Supreme storyline went in. >

Probably. Everyone of his original stories that i've read has the heroes trying to topple the voice of authority and setting up their own regime.

Question
Monday, February 23, 2004 03:49:32 AM
IP: 144.92.164.199

Sixth - again!
Talon
Monday, February 23, 2004 03:44:04 AM
IP: 129.234.4.76

*counts* 5th (since I messed up the last one)
5th !!!

Babs
Monday, February 23, 2004 01:02:48 AM
IP: 68.80.222.40

once again, I claim the spot indicated by the sum of two and two.
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, February 23, 2004 12:52:57 AM
IP: 67.14.195.40

3rd.
Leo
Monday, February 23, 2004 12:16:19 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Oh my god I can't believe I got that far. LOL
Funkadelic Gnome - [funkadelic_gnome@hotmail.com]
Monday, February 23, 2004 12:13:33 AM
IP: 69.157.7.233

SECOND
Funkadelic Gnome
Monday, February 23, 2004 12:11:59 AM
IP: 69.157.7.233

Could I Be first?!! it's been a while

*hops on top of the #1 spot* woo!

Wingless
Monday, February 23, 2004 12:03:48 AM
IP: 24.157.218.68