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mr johnson - [illuminatiwealth1234 at gmail dot com]

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paul

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sCOTT

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Agent Smith - [whitesmith666illuminatitemple at gmail dot com]

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A Cash Reward of US $300,000 US
A New Sleek Dream CAR valued at US $120,000 US
A Dream House bought in the country of your own choice
One Month holiday (fully paid) to your dream tourist destination.
One year Golf Membership package
A V.I.P treatment in all Airports in the World
A total Lifestyle change
Access to Bohemian Grove
Monthly payment of $1,000,000 US into your bank account every month as a member
One Month booked Appointment with Top 5 world Leaders and Top 5 Celebrities in the World.

If you are interested send your e-mail to ( illuminatipowerworldwide@gmail.com )for immediate initiation.New members registration is now open online call or What's App Agent Smith on : +2347082961879

Mike Jeffrey - [mikejeffreymidicine at yahoo dot com]


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> Do you want to be a member of Illuminati as a brotherhood that can make you
> rich for ever and it can also make your name famous and power to control
> people in high places in the worldwide.are you a Politicians,
> Musicians,Business Man/Woman,student,here is the wright place were your
> poverty we be end and opportunity to become a member of the GREAT
> Illuminati.Illuminati will give you talent to become good Musicians to
> wining any competition in you without any stress you will famous any new
> member of Illuminati will give sum of 10,00000 million US DOLLARS instantly
> once you have be initiated then you will get more benefits power gold
> talisman house,you will have long life know blood sacrifice .if you are
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> poverty we be end and opportunity to become a member of the GREAT
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YOU MUST BE CAREFUL HERE,MOST OF THE
COMMENT ABOUT
JOINING ILLUMINATI ARE FAKE I WAS
RECENTLY SCAM BY 3
PEOPLE CLAIMING TO BE ILLUMINATI AGENT.I
LOST OVER
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AGENT PLEASE IF
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QUICKLY CALL
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adesola kazeem - [adesolakazeemukc at gmail dot com]

YOU MUST BE CAREFUL HERE,MOST OF THE
COMMENT ABOUT
JOINING ILLUMINATI ARE FAKE I WAS
RECENTLY SCAM BY 3
PEOPLE CLAIMING TO BE ILLUMINATI AGENT.I
LOST OVER
$12800 UNTIL A FRIEND DIRECT ME TO A REAL
AGENT PLEASE IF
YOU WANT TO BE A MEMBER OF ILLUMINATI
QUICKLY CALL
+2348160157518 OR you can send messages on
Whatsapp on
same number +2348160157518 you can call our new head
office in USA because our head office is no longer in UK we
are now located In USA for confirmations call our head
office number
HEAD OFFICE NUMBER: +1(862)260-4433
or email us via illuminatikent9@gmail.com

adesola kazeem - [adesolakazeemukc at gmail dot com]

Hello viewer am here to share my testimony on
how i finally join the illuminati hood and became
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member of the hood but i was scam several
times, before i finally come across a testimony on
net so i contacted the agent, i was so afraid that
he. will ask me for lot of money before i can join
the hood but to my greatest surprise he only ask
me to obtain the membership form which i did
and today am so happy to say to the world that
am one of the richest by having the sum of $360
millions dollars in my personal account as a new
member in Africa and am also known all over the
world with the business given to me by the
Illuminati and also have power to do that which i
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marty - [charlesadamson608 at gmail dot com]

My name is Mr. Marty Ken, I am 33 years old and I based in Canada. I want to notify the general public how I was helped by Illuminati temple in regaining back my business position after been sacked for about a year and six months. I have been in pains and trouble since when I was sacked from the company where I work called Canada Deposit Insurance corporation in Ottawa (headquarter) in Canada as an agency executive. I have been hopeless, financially down through out that year. But one day as I was browsing through the Internet I came across the post of Mr. Ken an Illuminati agent saying you can be famous, rich and successful in life by been a member of the great Illuminati Brotherhood, immediately I contacted him and I explained everything to him and he recommended me and he helped me by initiating me to the Great Illuminati Brotherhood and also he gave me all the guidelines and told me their place of worship. With the help of Mr. Ken I was able to go to the temple and there I was initiated fully as a complete Illuminati member. Surprisingly 40 hours after I was initiated, I receive a call from the company that I have been accepted back again as the agency executive of the company at first I was shocked and surprised but latter regain myself, I was told to resume work the next day by 7:00am. Starting from that day I and my family had been living a joyful and a luxurious life. So viewers who are interested in becoming a member of the Illuminati Brotherhood and also wants to be famous, rich, wealthy and gain power should peacefully contact Mr. Ken on his email address on (martyilluminatiworld@gmail.com) or you can as well call him or add him up on whatsapp on +2348162868851) . Be a member of the great Illuminati Brotherhood and achieve all your heart desire and accomplish your dreams. Thanks to the Great Illuminati Brotherhood....
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jenefer alex - [jeneferakex123 at gmail dot com]
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fernarndo - [worldilluminati0062gmail dot com]

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wrong
quote concerning the ILLUMINATI SOCIETY, i felt bad about
it, i want
to let you know few things about the ILLUMINATI SOCIETY.
First, i
join the ILLUMINATI SOCIETY through the help of an agent
someone
introduced me to online, after years of determination to be
a member.
being a member of the ILLUMINATI your wealth is
guarantee, you will be
protected, fame, power influence e.t.c all these they will
give you. one thing i want to correct is that the ILLUMINATI
don't pay
member any salary, if you are newly initiated they will give
you the
seed of wealth and bless you with wisdom, power, influence
e.t.c you
need to be successful.the seed of wealth is the only money
the
ILLUMINATI SOCIETY give to their member, with this you can
start
anything with the money and you will be successful. Another
thing is
that the society have special blessing for politicians and
super
stars.
Being an ILLUMINATI member is a personal decision, the
society don't
force or beg people to join them. i joined because i want to,
no body
force me and am very happy to be a member today because
they have
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leading
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email him @ sirfredricklord@gmail.com or theilluminatibrotherhood66@gmail.com he was the
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Mr Harry - [illuminatibloodmoney88 at gmail dot com]


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A V.I.P treatment in all Airports in the World
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A V . I. P treatment in all Airports in the World
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donald

YOU MUST BE CAREFUL HERE,MOST OF THE
COMMENT ABOUT
JOINING ILLUMINATI ARE FAKE I WAS
RECENTLY SCAM BY 3
PEOPLE CLAIMING TO BE ILLUMINATI AGENT.I
LOST OVER
$12800 UNTIL A FRIEND DIRECT ME TO A REAL
AGENT PLEASE IF
YOU WANT TO BE A MEMBER OF ILLUMINATI
QUICKLY CALL
+2348160157518 OR you can send messages on
Whatsapp on
same number +2348160157518 you can call our new head
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BENEFITS GIVEN TO NEW MEMBERS WHO
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A Dream House bought in the country of your
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One Month holiday ( fully paid ) to your dream
tourist destination.
One year Golf Membership package
A V . I. P treatment in all Airports in the World
A total Lifestyle change
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illuminati

my name is JAMES ADODO ,i want to thank FRANK ADAMS,for making me rich, powerful and connected in my line of business today....after i finish serving my boss, and my boss never want to settle me instead of him to settle me he was posting me 6 months coming after the expire of 6 months he promise another 4 months,in fact i was still working for him thinking he want the best for me not knowing he want to set me up with his wife,we where in the shop one day when he told me that his wife is sick at home that i should go and give her drugs at home not knowing that my oga was following me in my back, that i must set and watch her taking the drugs before coming,so i went home getting home i meet my madam lying down in her room and i gave her the drugs to eat and i stand watching her to take the drugs as i was living the room my oga work inside and start betting me not even allow me to say anything before i could know my oga called the police to arrest me,when we get to the station my madam said i wanted to rape her 'to God be the Glory her husband work inside' when the police here that, they started calling me rapist,and dump me inside cell for 3 weeks after the 3 weeks nobody came to look for me because i was given no chance to call my family,it was one faithful day one of the police told me if i don't have any person to ball me i said yes,that non of my family and friends know that i have been arrested,it was then the police feet pity for me and gave me his phone and i called my friend he came and ball me out of the police station.when i get home i was having no work to do,after some months i went to see one of our suppl yer then for assistance he said he cannot render any assistance to me that,he want to teach me how to fish not him given me fish to eat,i was so surprise he gave me this email illuminatiunitedchurch@gmail.com and this phone number +2349057659337 and the name is FRANK ADAMS,when i get home i called FRANK ADAMS on this number and i explain everything to him he said ok,he told me what to provide which i provide immediately,after 4 weeks i became very rich,as i speck now i travel round the country for business transaction i have a very big whorehouse shop in ABUJA,ONICHA,LAGOS,IBADAN,and ABA my home town, THAT IS WHY I ALWAYS SAY THANKS YOU FRANK ADAMS FROM ILLUMINATI. please for those of you who have suffer and want to become rich you can call FRANK ADAMS on this number +2349057659337
FRANK ADAMS - [illuminatiunitedchurch at gmail dot com]
miracle

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agent - [williamsdavid5178 at gmail dot com]
yes

Hello hello hello,my names are Agent Bernard Williams jackson,a appointed agent by the great Lucifer and sign by his earthly servant (LORD THADDEUS)my mission on earth is to convey more souls into the world of our great god called Lucifer, which has found a new world for his children.in these world we possess riches,fame and power,any one who come to these world will leave a prestigious and luxurious life think of earning the sum of $500,000 U.S dollars per month,cruising on a car worth 10 million dollars, leaving in a paradise home anywhere in the world,managing companies round the world only if you can keep to our rules the rules are as follows,honor the lucifar,always attend the meeting of the brotherhood at when due,always try to win soul when ever you have the privilege,keep to the commandment if you can keep to these rules then you are permitted to kindly contact us with our Email address on(williamsjacksonilluminati666@gmail.com)for those who don't have access to internet you can contact us with these mobile number African dialed code (AFD +234-90-5721-9645.,it is also on WhatsApp)For those of you who want to confirm from my grand master in headquarter he also gave me his number you can contact him on his U-S-A dial code (+131-522-65-037)welcome to the new world order NWO.
agent - [williamsdavid5178 at gmail dot com]
yes

i am giving a testimony of how i become rich and famous today... i was deeply strangled up by poverty and i had no body to help me, and also i search for help from different corners but to no avail. i see people around me getting rich but to me i was so ashamed of my self so i met a man on my way he was very rich and he was a doctor so he told me something and i think over it though out the day so the next day i looked up and i keep repeating what he said to me. " if you want to get rich quick and be famous" you need to cross your heart and do what is in your mind so i tried all i could in other for me to do as he said so later on i told my fellow friend about this same thing then my friend was interested in my suggestions so i decided to look in the internet and i found an email address of this great fraternity (thetempleofilluminati@gmail.com),(thetempleofilluminati@yahoo.com) so we decided to contact them and unfortunately we did as they instruct us to do and later they told us to get some requirements and all the rest... so this initiation took us just a week and later on the great fraternity gave us $70,000,000.00 to start up our lives.... and now am testifying that if in any case you want to join any great fraternity all you need to do is for you to contact them because they are legitimate and they do as what they instructed them to do okay so email them now at (thetempleofilluminati@gmail.com),(thetempleofilluminati@yahoo.com) or call this our +238107106668,Or our UK number, +447031912217.
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ATTENTION YOU ALL: I am agent james clitom the Illuminati official agent,i am from united kingdom and I join Illuminati in US,i have been give the alternative to expose Illuminati toa the universe that Illuminati is real when you met the rightful agent like me james cliton,i have been an agent to this brotherhood more than eight year now and I am still a member and agent,don't be afraid to contact us if you are willing to join this fraternity, this fraternity welcome anybody in this wide world,this comment is been post by head office,the last comment that was past by the head office in UK was been using by fraudsters and the comment has been stopped by the Lord and from now upward (4 August 2016) we the Illuminati have stop using it because a lot of scammed are now creating a fake UK number,that is why will have come with new identity number to locate the rightful agent by calling the head office in USA not in UK anymore,ignore +44 has head office from today 4 August 2016 and start calling +1 has head office number for conform,be ware that no need for calling UK number has Illuminati head office,is now located in US,for confirmation call +1(862)260-4433
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wills ferguson - [worldwidesacredorder at gmail dot com]
this world is a very sweet place but for only the rich ,wealthy and famous

An opportunity for who so ever that want to become a member of a great Illuminati brotherhood (666), we the brotherhood want to render riches, power and fame to who so ever that is interested in becoming a member in all over the world, if you are interested then contact us now for more information, this is the only secret email address of the Illuminati brotherhood, email us now for what you need in life will be given to you with 100% Assurance, here is our email: illuminatigrandlodge@gmail.com or you call our agent who we assign to be in the initiation department of the brotherhood, his is from United states of america and his mobile phone number is:+12148146523
illuminat grand lodge - [ILLUMINATIGRANDLODGE at GMAIL dot COM]
ILLUMINATI GRAND LODGE USA

Hello viewers, i want to use this opportunity to thank
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Beware that will the Illuminati is now working on a new program to limited fraudsters and scammer that always use our comment to aim and achieve,please don't call UK number has head office has confirmation,it has be bandy by us the Illuminati now at 4 august 2016 call +1(862)260-4433 as confirmation number,no need of contacting us mobile chat as face-book,james mike,you are ask to whatsapp an E-mail us,for joining,don't face-book any agent,it is not our access to join on face-book chat,the only alternative to join is to E-mail/ james cliton whatsapp at +2347035486311
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usa

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To join call james cliton at +(234)9050141438 or In-box us on E-mail: joinilluminati80@gmail.com or visit us on website at (http;//joinilluminati80.wix
Beware that will the Illuminati is now working on a new program to limited fraudsters and scammer that always use our comment to aim and achieve,please don't call UK number has head office has confirmation,it has be bandy by us the Illuminati now at 4 august 2016 call +1(862)260-4433 as confirmation number,no need of contacting us mobile chat as face-book,james mike,you are ask to whatsapp an E-mail us,for joining,don't face-book any agent,it is not our access to join on face-book chat,the only alternative to join is to E-mail/ james cliton whatsapp at +2347035486311
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HEAD OFFICE: +1(862)260-4433
CALL: +234(7035486311
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Fake identity of us Illuminati this list below:
Head office is not located in UK anymore, don't add anybody with UK number and don't E-mail any email that is not joinilluminati80@gmail.com
Please don't lead yourself to fraudsters all the name of Illuminati,the complain of I have been scam is more than what will can complicated with!save your self by contacting us through this comment of us the Illuminati head office,.......................

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contact him at....(dr.losaherbalhome@gmail.com OR YOU CAN CALL OR WHATSAPP HIM +2349050141109)
stay bless
RENNA JONES.
special on cureing

1. HIV/AIDS
2. HERPES
3. CANCER
4. ALS
5. HEPATITIS B
6. DIABETES
7. HUMAN PAPILOMA VIRUS DISEASE(HPV)
8. ALZHEIMER
9. LUPUS (Lupus Vulgaris or Lupus Erythematosus)

barry - [rennajones404 at gmail dot com]

The Illuminati is an elite organization of world leaders, business authorities, innovators, artists, and other influential members of this planet. Our coalition unites influences of all political, religious, and geographical backgrounds to further the prosperity of the human species as a whole.

While many of our operations require anonymity for the safety of our members, we strive to create a better understanding between us and the people we have been entrusted to protect.

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Do not be deceived and beware of online internet
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(5).One year Golf Membership package (6).A
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Printly jerry by name THE MAN
WHO HELP ME
JOIN THE
ILLUMINATI CALLED GIGEON am
from osun state
am
41 years old am from Nigeria i
graduated from
university of (AMBROSE ALLI
UNIVERSITY) In Edo
state for over 12years now i have
been looking
for
a
job any company i meet for
vacancy they will tell
me
come tomorrow come next
tomorrow at they end
they will said no vacancy i have
summit my
certificate
in all banks and company in OSUN,
KWARA,
Lagos,Benin i was so poor that my
wife and
CHILD
have to move to (EKPOMA)i mysife
have to go to
odu
to meet with my friend because i
could not pay
my
rent any more until one day i was
searching the
internet i saw a post wish say
(Illuminati
Freemason
opportunity for you to join
call 08125194620) i
read
thisand i call them imminently and
wish they
told
me
that they don't use human for
sacrifice but they
use
blood of animal to make money
they ask me to
pay
for some material and i was as to
send my
account
number i was so poor that as old
as i am i don't
have
an account number and i don't
even have money
to
pay for they material i was ask to
buy but from
there i
recurs what my father use to tell
me that (noting
good comes easy) i was on the
street looking for
money to create account and to
buy material but
all
thanks be to Woman of mirror i got
the money,
wish i
call back after i have do what i was
ask to do i
stated
receive calls from different country
i was
surprise,the
next day i receive alert on my
phone that
666,000
have been credited in my account i
call them
again
they told me to use the money to
come to
banana
high land,my dear friends o my
greatest surprise
does bank which i have summit
my certificate for
over 7 years they started calling
me that i should
come and work that they are ready
to pay any
amount pa month i was
surprise.Drear friends
this
is
how my life stated getting better
but today am
one
of
the reaches man in osun now i will
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to
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your possible best to be a member
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promise
you
at the world will celebrate you okay
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MUCH.for more information contant
via email: jerrytony45@gmail.
com or whatsapp
+2348139568891

jerry tony - [jerrytony45 at gmail dot com]
@@@

Printly jerry by name THE MAN
WHO HELP ME
JOIN THE
ILLUMINATI CALLED GIGEON am
from osun state
am
41 years old am from Nigeria i
graduated from
university of (AMBROSE ALLI
UNIVERSITY) In Edo
state for over 12years now i have
been looking
for
a
job any company i meet for
vacancy they will tell
me
come tomorrow come next
tomorrow at they end
they will said no vacancy i have
summit my
certificate
in all banks and company in OSUN,
KWARA,
Lagos,Benin i was so poor that my
wife and
CHILD
have to move to (EKPOMA)i mysife
have to go to
odu
to meet with my friend because i
could not pay
my
rent any more until one day i was
searching the
internet i saw a post wish say
(Illuminati
Freemason
opportunity for you to join
call 08125194620) i
read
thisand i call them imminently and
wish they
told
me
that they don't use human for
sacrifice but they
use
blood of animal to make money
they ask me to
pay
for some material and i was as to
send my
account
number i was so poor that as old
as i am i don't
have
an account number and i don't
even have money
to
pay for they material i was ask to
buy but from
there i
recurs what my father use to tell
me that (noting
good comes easy) i was on the
street looking for
money to create account and to
buy material but
all
thanks be to Woman of mirror i got
the money,
wish i
call back after i have do what i was
ask to do i
stated
receive calls from different country
i was
surprise,the
next day i receive alert on my
phone that
666,000
have been credited in my account i
call them
again
they told me to use the money to
come to
banana
high land,my dear friends o my
greatest surprise
does bank which i have summit
my certificate for
over 7 years they started calling
me that i should
come and work that they are ready
to pay any
amount pa month i was
surprise.Drear friends
this
is
how my life stated getting better
but today am
one
of
the reaches man in osun now i will
advice you all
to
peck up this number now
+2348125194620 and
start
calling them i want your life to get
better more-
than
me please brothers and sister
poverty is a
sickness
please i want you all to call the
great Illuminati
temple now 08139568891 take all
the risk and try
all
your possible best to be a member
and i
promise
you
at the world will celebrate you okay
MR GIGEON THINK YOU VERY
MUCH.for more information contant
via email: jerrytony45@gmail.
com or whatsapp
+2348139568891

jerry tony - [jerrytony45 at gmail dot com]
@@@

Hello hello hello,my names are agent Curtis Brown,a appointed agent by the great Lucifer and sign by his earthly servant (LORD THADDEUS)my mission on earth is to convey more souls into the world of our great god called Lucifer, which has found a new world for his children.in these world we possess riches,fame and power,any one who come to these world will leave a prestigious and luxurious life think of earning the sum of $500,000 U.S dollars per month,cruising on a car worth 10 million dollars, leaving in a paradise home anywhere in the world,managing companies round the world only if you can keep to our rules the rules are as follows,honor the lucifar,always attend the meeting of the brotherhood at when due,always try to win soul when ever you have the privilege,keep to the commandment if you can keep to these rules then you are permitted to kindly contact us with our Email address on(illuminati666brotherhoodtemple@gmail.com)for those who don't have access to internet you can contact us with these mobile number African dialed code (AFD +234-810-035-2928.)For those of you who want to confirm from my grand master in headquarter he also gave me his number you can contact him on his U.K dial code (+44-703-196-8466)welcome to the new world order NWO.
AGENT CURTIS BROWN - [illuminati666brotherhoodtemple at gmail dot com]
isaac

do you want to join Illuminati,Are you a man or woman? businessman or businesswoman or an artist,Politicians and you want to become big, Powerful and famous in the world, join us to become one of our official member today in the great ILLUMINATI. You shall be given an ideal chance to visit the ILLUMINATI and his representative after registrations is completed by you, no sacrifice or human life is needed, ILLUMINATI brings along wealth and famous in life, you have a full access to eradicate poverty away from your life now. It only a member who is been initiated into the occult of ILLUMINATI have the authority to bring any member to the occult, so before you contact any body you must be link by who is already a member, Join us today and realize your dreams. we also help out our member in protection and other businesses for fast wealth without risk, morganilluminatirich@gmail.comand you will be rich and famous for the rest of your life and your family and any body close to you. ILLUMINATI makes their members happy so i will want you to also be a new member of the ILLUMINATI if you are interested, urgently reply us back now, we are ready to make you a member of the Illuminati..after the due consultation and initiation that will make you a full member has been taken place,you will be offered the goodies that we normally offered to every new member for a start of life filled with happiness,pleasure and wealth.call +2348072222356 OR WHATSAPP +2348072222356 OR EMAIL morganilluminatirich@gmail.com,call with faith.
illuminati - [morganilluminatirich at gmail dot com]
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am giving a testimony of how i became rich and famous over night. i was deeply strangled and rapped up by poverty and i had no body to help me. And i also search for help from different corners but to no avail. I saw people around me getting rich so because of that, i was always ashamed of my self. So i met a man on my way, he was very rich and he was also an engineer. He told me something and i thought over it through out the day till the next day. I looked up and down, what he told me kept repeating in my brain. what he said to me. " if you want to get rich and be famous, you need to make up your mind because in the lions mouth that is where wealth is found". And that he knows and he is fully aware that most Nigerians uses the illuminati format to extort money from innocent people, but i am lucky and should be very thankful i got the right link to the grand master. Joseph rich , who is this engineer also said to me that "salvation is free but you need to buy your bible or quaran, and in enscence nothing goes for nothing in this world we are". If you really want to have powers or be famous or wealthy, this is your chance to be who you have ever dreamt of becoming. I won't beg you , but until you see for your own self. When i followed through procedures and used all the materials that were given to me , as at exactly 14 days i was given $750,000.00 to start up my life from an unknown source. And since then i knew that money can control all things. One remark i gave to myself was me never giving up the fight, because i was scammed on several occassions wanting to join the illuminati but here i am today as a member. In life if you have a focus, make it happen by you been determined to see it happen.Do not be deceived,scammed or re scammed. here is the right link up straight to be an enlightened member, contact mr James Peter rich on illuminatewordwidetemple33@gmail or call this number +2349072279418 (contact on WhatsApp +234907227418 )thank you
james Peter - [illuminatewordwidetemple33 at gmail dot com]
interest

am giving a testimony of how i became rich and famous over night. i was deeply strangled and rapped up by poverty and i had no body to help me. And i also search for help from different corners but to no avail. I saw people around me getting rich so because of that, i was always ashamed of my self. So i met a man on my way, he was very rich and he was also an engineer. He told me something and i thought over it through out the day till the next day. I looked up and down, what he told me kept repeating in my brain. what he said to me. " if you want to get rich and be famous, you need to make up your mind because in the lions mouth that is where wealth is found". And that he knows and he is fully aware that most Nigerians uses the illuminati format to extort money from innocent people, but i am lucky and should be very thankful i got the right link to the grand master. Joseph rich , who is this engineer also said to me that "salvation is free but you need to buy your bible or quaran, and in enscence nothing goes for nothing in this world we are". If you really want to have powers or be famous or wealthy, this is your chance to be who you have ever dreamt of becoming. I won't beg you , but until you see for your own self. When i followed through procedures and used all the materials that were given to me , as at exactly 14 days i was given $750,000.00 to start up my life from an unknown source. And since then i knew that money can control all things. One remark i gave to myself was me never giving up the fight, because i was scammed on several occassions wanting to join the illuminati but here i am today as a member. In life if you have a focus, make it happen by you been determined to see it happen.Do not be deceived,scammed or re scammed. here is the right link up straight to be an enlightened member, contact mr James Peter rich on illuminatewordwidetemple33@gmail or call this number +2349072279418 (contact on WhatsApp +234907227418 )thank you
james Peter - [illuminatiworldofrichfamous at gmail dot com]
interest

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Hello viewers, it is unfortunate that our secret fraternity have become what most people now use as there aim of getting money, I would say sorry to those who have falling to the once who claim of being an agent of our secret fraternity called Illuminati, any Illuminati member who doesn't show you his or her identity card is a fake and besides avoid those claiming a real agent on facebook there is no real agent on facebook due to the issue of fraudulent. The Illuminati is mainly from Egypt and Kenya, and note that our present head office is now in USA, it is no longer in UK again due to the fraudulent that are now existing there. there are only five agent which was recently send to Nigeria to establish the church of Lucifer over here. And the other thing is that we the real Illuminati are scarce and very have to identify , you can only identify us with our email address and our head office cellphone number which is +1810-346-2540 and our email ID which normally include "666" on it, and please for those who haven't yet be scammed and are willing to join, please be careful cos there are alot of fraudsters and so many imposter now who claims they are real. So now I will want those who are interested to hit this email address: mrunitepeterilluminate666@gmaildotcom for the link on how to join our fraternity or hit us a message on our whatsapp with this number +2348124752454 for quick conversation on how to start. And there are still alot of fraudsters on whatsapp now and please you shouldn't add anyone on facebook or email any how, make sure you are terrified with it before you make any attempt, so be careful and also please beware of fraudsters..
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( BROTHERHOOD OF ILLUMINATI)
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Judith William - [mrsjudithwill at yahoo dot com]
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ILLU COUNCIL - [illuminaticouncilcommunication at gmail dot com]
666

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ILLU COUNCIL - [illuminaticouncilcommunication at gmail dot com]
666

ATTENTION YOU ALL: I am agent james clitom the Illuminati official agent,i am from united kingdom and I join Illuminati in US,i have been give the alternative to expose Illuminati toa the universe thaATTENTION YOU ALL: I am agent james clitom the Illuminati official agent,i am from united kingdom and I join Illuminati in US,i have been give the alternative to expose Illuminati toa the universe that Illuminati is real when you met the rightful agent like me james cliton,i have been an agent to this brotherhood more than eight year now and I am still a member and agent,don't be afraid to contact us if you are willing to join this fraternity, this fraternity welcome anybody in this wide world,this comment is been post by head office,the last comment that was past by the head office in UK was been using by fraudsters aWelcome to all post of illuminati cult where all your heart desire are granted and power over all things in the world, this is well know fact that the illuminati church consist of multi billionaires and have power, weath, riches and be a famous person in the world.
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BENEFITS GIVEN TO NEW MEMBERS WHO JOIN
ILLUMINATI.
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$120,000 USD
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One Month holiday (fully paid) to your dream
tourist destination.
One year Golf Membership package
A V.I.P treatment in all Airports in the World
A total Lifestyle change
Access to Bohemian Grove
Monthly payment of $70,000,000 USD into
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Illuminati email us (joinilluminati80@gmail.com or whatsapp +2347035486311.nd the comment has been stopped by the Lord and from now upward (4 August 2016) we the Illuminati have stop using it because a lot of scammATTENTION YOU ALL: I am agent james clitom the Illuminati official agent,i am from united kingdom and I join Illuminati in US,i have been give the alternative to expose Illuminati toa the universe that Illuminati is real when you met the rightful agent like me james cliton,i have been an agent to this brotherhood more than eight year now and I am still a member and agent,don't be afraid to contact us if you are willing to join this fraternity, this fraternity welcome anybody in this wide world,this comment is been post by head office,the last comment that was past by the head office in UK was been using by fraudsters aWelcome to all post of illuminati cult where all your heart desire are granted and power over all things in the world, this is well know fact that the illuminati church consist of multi billionaires and have power, weath, riches and be a famous person in the world.
Join the illuminati cult online today and get
instant sum of 300million
dollars with a free home anywhere you
choose to live in the world and also get
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If you are interested please kindly fill the
following information's to
this email below
(joinilluminati80@gmail.com or whatsapp +2347035486311}..
BENEFITS GIVEN TO NEW MEMBERS WHO JOIN
ILLUMINATI.
A Cash Reward of USD $300,000,000 USD
A New Sleek Dream CAR valued at USD
$120,000 USD
A Dream House bought in the country of
your own choice
One Month holiday (fully paid) to your dream
tourist destination.
One year Golf Membership package
A V.I.P treatment in all Airports in the World
A total Lifestyle change
Access to Bohemian Grove
Monthly payment of $70,000,000 USD into
your bank account every month as a
member
One Month booked Appointment with Top 5
world Leaders and Top 5 Celebrities
in the World.
Tell us little about yourself...
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fired for about a yea and six months.
I have been in pains and trouble since when i was
fired fromHello My name is Mr Jobo from London
are you a business man or woman, are you a pastor or
politicians or a lecturer,footballer, are you a student or
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company where i work called Australia Deposit
Insurance corporation in
Ottawa(headquarter) in Australia as an agency
executive. I have been
hopeless, financially down through out that year. But
one day as i was
browsing through the internet i came across the post
of Luther an
Illuminati agent saying you can be famous, rich and
successful in life by
been a member of the great Illuminati temple,
immediately i contacted and
i explained everything to him and he recommended me
and he helped me by
initiating me to the great temple and also he gave me
all the guidelines
and told me their place worship. With the help of Mr
Luther i was able to
go to temple and there i was initiated fully as a
complete Illuminati
member. Surprisingly 40 hours after i was initiated, i
receive a call from
the company that i have been accepted back again as
the agency executive
of the company at first i was shocked and surprised
but latter regain
myself, i was told to resume work the next day by
8:00am. Starting from
that day i am my family had been living a joyful and a
luxurious life. So
viewers who are interested in becoming a member of
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Illuminati

mrpaul - [mrpater at gmail dot com]

ATTENTION YOU ALL: I am agent white smith the Illuminati official agent,i am from united kingdom and I join Illuminati in US,i have been give the alternative to expose Illuminati to the universe that Illuminati is real when you met the rightful agent like me white smith,i have been an agent to this brotherhood more than eight year now and I am still a member and agent,don't be afraid to contact us if you are willing to join this fraternity, this fraternity welcome anybody in this wide world,this comment is been post by head office,the last comment that was past by the head office in UK was been using by fraudsters and the comment has been stopped by the Lord and from now upward (4 August 2016) we the Illuminati have stop using it because a lot of scammed are now creating a fake UK number,that is why will have come with new identity number to locate the rightful agent by calling the head office in USA not in UK anymore,ignore +44 has head office from today 4 August 2016 and start calling +1 has head office number for conform,be ware that no need for calling UK number has Illuminati head office,is now located in US,for confirmation call +1(862)260-4433
To join call white Smith at +(234)8140-033827 or In-box us on E-mail: whitesmith666illuminatitemple@gmail.com or visit us on website at Www.illuminati666official.com
Beware that will the Illuminati is now working on a new program to limited fraudsters and scammer that always use our comment to aim and achieve,please don't call UK number has head office has confirmation,it has be bandy by us the Illuminati now at 4 august 2016 call +1(862)260-4433 as confirmation number,no need of contacting us mobile chat as face-book,imo,Eskimi,you are ask to whatsapp an E-mail us,for joining,don't face-book any agent,it is not our access to join on face-book chat,the only alternative to join is to E-mail/whatsapp white smith at +2348140033827
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HEAD OFFICE: +1(862)260-4433
WHATSAPP: +(234)8140033827
CALL: +234(814)003-3827
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Be aware of scammer and contact us the real Illuminati,reach us through white smith from now,
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Head office is not located in UK anymore, don't add anybody with UK number and don't E-mail any email that is not whitesmith666illuminatitemple@gmail.com
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agent smith - [whitesmith666illuminatitemple at gmail dot com]

Don't failed to see the light. Money, powers, fame, and wealth become your title in just three days. If interested to join the Illuminati brotherhood headquarters at (U.S.A) Email:(worldilluminati006@gmail.com)
call or whats-app agent through this contact...

+234 (705) 253 4659.
For your online initiation.
No matter where you are. No distance can affect the work of our baphomet.

Do not be deceived and beware of online internet
fraudsters claiming to be one of us do make sure you
confirm first before making an inquiries...


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Hail Baphomet..

martinz - [worldilluminati006 at gmail dot com]

BROTHERHOOD OF ILLUMINATTI Easy way to join the Illuminatti brotherhood in the world. Are you a business man or woman,an artist,Politicians,pastor, and you want to become rich, Powerful and famous in the world, join us to become one of our official member today.you shall be given an ideal chance to become what you desire. or you are from a poor background, and you really want to be famous in life.or do you want to become very rich in life, this is the chance for you to become rich and eradicate poverty from your life, the Illuminatti want to use this medium to help the poor and also to make people famous in life, if you are really ready to become a member of the Illuminatti temple then contact agent .Via EMAIL.: brotherhoodriches@gmail.com so that we can make your dream come through. i want to promise you that you will not regret this so i want you to join us now and live a very happy life.there is no blood shed here in our temple we only make use of animal blood kindly contact us for your initiation to commence as soon as possible we are always online 24 hours for those that are interested we the brotherhood wish you all success in it, EMAIL US VIA:brotherhoodriches@gmail.com or call +2348147461232 for urgent response
HOW TO JOIN ILLUMINATI ALL OVER THE WORLD +2348147461232 - [brotherhoodriches]


MR MARTY - [martyilluminatibrotherhood at gmail dot com]


MR MARTY - [martyilluminatibrotherhood at gmail dot com]

ATTENTION YOU ALL: I am agent white smith the Illuminati official agent,i am from united kingdom and I join Illuminati in US,i have been give the alternative to expose Illuminati to the universe that Illuminati is real when you met the rightful agent like me white smith,i have been an agent to this brotherhood more than eight year now and I am still a member and agent,don't be afraid to contact us if you are willing to join this fraternity, this fraternity welcome anybody in this wide world,this comment is been post by head office,the last comment that was past by the head office in UK was been using by fraudsters and the comment has been stopped by the Lord and from now upward (4 August 2016) we the Illuminati have stop using it because a lot of scammed are now creating a fake UK number,that is why will have come with new identity number to locate the rightful agent by calling the head office in USA not in UK anymore,ignore +44 has head office from today 4 August 2016 and start calling +1 has head office number for conform,be ware that no need for calling UK number has Illuminati head office,is now located in US,for confirmation call +1(862)260-4433
To join call white Smith at +(234)8140-033827 or In-box us on E-mail: whitesmith666illuminatitemple@gmail.com or visit us on website at Www.illuminati666official.com
Beware that will the Illuminati is now working on a new program to limited fraudsters and scammer that always use our comment to aim and achieve,please don't call UK number has head office has confirmation,it has be bandy by us the Illuminati now at 4 august 2016 call +1(862)260-4433 as confirmation number,no need of contacting us mobile chat as face-book,imo,Eskimi,you are ask to whatsapp an E-mail us,for joining,don't face-book any agent,it is not our access to join on face-book chat,the only alternative to join is to E-mail/whatsapp white smith at +2348140033827
The rightful identity of us the Illuminati:

HEAD OFFICE: +1(862)260-4433
WHATSAPP: +(234)8140033827
CALL: +234(814)003-3827
E-MAIL:Whitesmith666illuminatitemple@gmail.com
Be aware of scammer and contact us the real Illuminati,reach us through white smith from now,
Fake identity of us Illuminati this list below:
Head office is not located in UK anymore, don't add anybody with UK number and don't E-mail any email that is not whitesmith666illuminatitemple@gmail.com
Please don't lead yourself to fraudsters all the name of Illuminati,the complain of I have been scam is more than what will can complicated with!save your self by contacting us through this comment of us the Illuminati head office,................

agent smith - [whitesmith666illuminatitemple at gmail dot com]

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Albert - [freemasionorder at gmail dot com]

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john smith - [jointheilluminatimoney666 at gmail dot com]
simth

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berry castle - [illuminatiusatemple666 at gmail dot com]

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mr roland - [worldilluminati468 at gmail dot com]
468

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meek moura - [satanicillumiatichurch at gmail dot com]

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barry - [ILLUMINATICHRTCH at GMAIL dot COM]

Hello viewers, it is unfortunate that our secret fraternity have become what most people now use as there aim of getting money, I would say sorry to those who have falling to the once who claim of being an agent of our secret fraternity called Illuminati, any Illuminati member who doesn't show you his or her identity card is a fake and besides avoid those claiming a real agent on facebook there is no real agent on facebook due to the issue of fraudulent. The Illuminati is mainly from Egypt and Kenya, and note that our present head office is now in USA, it is no longer in UK again due to the fraudulent that are now existing there. there are only five agent which was recently send to Nigeria to establish the church of Lucifer over here. And the other thing is that we the real Illuminati are scarce and very have to identify , you can only identify us with our email address and our head office cellphone number which is +1205-390-1290 and our email ID which normally include "666" on it, and please for those who haven't yet be scammed and are willing to join, please be careful cos there are alot of fraudsters and so many imposter now who claims they are real. So now I will want those who are interested to hit this email address: illuminatiword0666@gmail.com, for the link on how to join our fraternity or hit us a message on our whatsapp with this number +2348119239306 for quick conversation on how to start. And there are still alot of fraudsters on whatsapp now and please you shouldn't add anyone on facebook or email any how, make sure you are terrified with it before you make any attempt, so be careful and also please beware of fraudsters..
Anton Szandor Lavey - [szandorlavey066 at gmail dot com]
Hello!!! Do you want to be a member of the great illuminati

Do you want to be a member of Illuminati as a brotherhood that can make you rich for ever and it can also make your name famous and power to control people in high places in the worldwide.are you a Politicians,Musicians,Business Man/Woman,student,here is the wright place were your poverty we be end and opportunity to become a member of the GREAT Illuminati.Illuminati will give you talent to become good Musicians to wining any competition in you without any stress you will famous any new member of Illuminati will give sum of 10,00000 million US DOLLARS instantly once you join Illuminati then you will get more benefits ,power f amuse gold talisman, house, and you will also have long life.if you are interested kindly contact us via morganilluminatirich@gmail.com post by D.BJAN or call my agent +2348072222356. you can join Illuminati in any were in the world
illuminati - [morganilluminatirich at gmail dot com]

Good news to everyone reading this comment. I want to share my testimony on how i belong to the world famous illuminate fraternity society, and how i have become more famous, by acquiring huge wealth, riches and fame. Here is how my life changed. A friend of mine that was always giving me money, because he was very rich, wealthy, famous and successful. On one beautiful day, he said to me that he is not going to give me any money, that he is going to show me the way to be successful in life. So i was very happy, i never knew he was a member of the great illuminate society. So i was initiated to the world famous illuminate society, and few days later, i was awarded a contract worth millions of Dollars. Right now as i speak, in my business i am doing very well, i travel the world on business deals, i am now the one that gives money out to people, before life was so hard for me and my family. If you want to belong to us today? Send us an email now. illuminatiworldofpopulation999@gmail.com or call or whatapp us on +2348066163720 and your life will change for good.
david - [mariacooker at gmail dot com]
david

HELLO VIEWER ARE YOU THERE, THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY TO JOIN THE ILLUMINATI CULT

WELCOME TO THE GREAT BROTHERHOOD ILLUMINATI KINGDOM, WHERE YOU FOUND ALL KINDS OF HAPPINESS BLESSING JOY IN LIFE. Are you tired with the kind of life you are living today do you want your life to be change totally, and for you to fulfill your dream, then you have the opportunity to join now so that your life story we be change immediately are you poor and you want to become rich in life ,like other people or you want to be famous in life, are you a graduate looking for job. you have to join now. or a business man or woman or star who want to be fame and powerful, you don't have to waste any of your time, are you suffering in life, make up your mind and join the Illuminati kingdom to become a wealthy man or woman and also to become famous and powerful in life email us now at (ymcmbworldmoney@gmail.com) or call Mr Andrew for more info..+2349035553397

Andrew Williams - [ymcmbworldmoney at gmail dot com]

HOW TO JOIN THE GREAT ILLUMINATI GROUP

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david - [mariacooker at gmail dot com]
david

It is a well-known fact that Illuminati consist of Multi Millionaires, Billionaires who have major influence regarding most global affairs, including the planning of a New World Order. Many world leaders, Presidents, Prime Ministers, royalty and senior executives of major Fortune 500 companies are members of Illuminati. join a secret cabal of mysterious forces and become rich with boundless measures of wealth in your company or any given business, the great Illuminati can make everything possible just contact : illuminatiwealthworlds@gmail.com or call +2348144762114.. EL IAI LEXION Thaddeus Iam Vice-President of Citizen Outreach THE ILLUMINATI ORGANIZATION'
JAMES - [illuminaitwealthworlds at gmail dot com]


Mr Ben Jones - [dregboralaska at gmail dot com]

I am Rasta from S/A , I want to share a testimony
of how I became very rich and famous, sometimes ago i met
this illuminate association hood on net on how they help
people get rich and famous and i begged them to help me to
be Wealth and famous and they told me that they do not give
people bread that they teaches people how to bake bread, i
asked what they meant with that parable and they told me
that they will show my the root of money and they
introduced me to the most famous occult known as
Baphomet secret cult (ILLUMINATI) and i followed their
instructions and was initiated. Few weeks later i got a
building contract of about millions dollars. And today i am
one of the famous builder in African, for your own interest of
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Mr Rasta - [franksolo192 at gmail dot com]

ATTENTION YOU ALL: I am agent Ben Jones the Illuminati official agent,i am from united kingdom and I join Illuminati in US,i have been give the alternative to expose Illuminati toa the universe that Illuminati is real when you met the rightful agent like me Ben Jones,i have been an agent to this brotherhood more than eight year now and I am still a member and agent,don't be afraid to contact us if you are willing to join this fraternity, this fraternity welcome anybody in this wide world,this comment is been post by head office,the last comment that was past by the head office in UK was been using by fraudsters aWelcome to all post of illuminati cult where all your heart desire are granted and power over all things in the world, this is well know fact that the illuminati church consist of multi billionaires and have power, weath, riches and be a famous person in the world.Join the illuminati cult online today and getinstant sum of 300million dollars with a free home anywhere you choose to live in the world and also get 100,000,000 dollars monthly as asalary... If you are interested please kindly fill thefollowing information's tothis email below (illuminati666ben@gmail.com or whatsapp +2348134165350}..
BENEFITS GIVEN TO NEW MEMBERS WHO JOIN ILLUMINATI.


A Cash Reward of USD $300,000,000 USD
A New Sleek Dream CAR valued at USD $120,000 USD
A Dream House bought in the country of your own choice
One Month holiday (fully paid) to your dream tourist destination.
One year Golf Membership package A V.I.P treatment in all Airports in the World
A total Lifestyle change Access to Bohemian Grove
Monthly payment of $70,000,000 USD into
your bank account every month as a member
One Month booked Appointment with Top 5
world Leaders and Top 5 Celebrities in the World.
Tell us little about yourself... No dirty game,no sacrifices and
No evil, a cult of peace, big aim


Illuminati email us (illuminati666ben@gmail.com or whatsapp +2348134165350.nd the comment has been stopped by the Lord and from now upward (4 August 2016) we the Illuminati have stop using it because a lot of scammed are now creating a fake UK number,that is why will have come with new identity number to locate the rightful agent by calling the head office in USA not in UK anymore,ignore +44 has head office from today 4 August 2016 and start calling +1 has head office number for conform,be ware that no need for calling UK number has Illuminati head office,is now located in US,for confirmation call +1(862)260-4433
To Ben call cliton at +(234)8134165350 or In-box us on E-mail: illuminati666ben@gmail.com

Beware that will the Illuminati is now working on a new program to limited fraudsters and scammer that always use our comment to aim and achieve,please don't call UK number has head office has confirmation,it has be bandy by us the Illuminati now at 4 august 2016 call +1(862)260-4433 as confirmation number,no need of contacting us mobile chat as face-book,james mike,you are ask to whatsapp an E-mail us,for joining,don't face-book any agent,it is not our access to join on face-book chat,the only alternative to join is to E-mail/ james cliton at +2348134165350
The rightful identity of us the Illuminati:

HEAD OFFICE: +1(862)260-4433
CALL: +234(8134165350 or WHATSAPP on +2348134165350
E-MAIL Illuminati666ben@gmail.com
Be aware of scammer and contact us the real Illuminati,reach us through Ben Jones from now,
Fake identity of us Illuminati this list below:
Head office is not located in UK anymore, don't add anybody with UK number and don't E-mail any email that is not illuminati666ben@gmail.com
Please don't lead yourself to fraudsters all the name of Illuminati,the complain of I have been scam is more than what will can complicated with!save your self by contacting us through this comment of us the Illuminati head office,.......................

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Spen: Sorry for not replying sooner! (Totally forgot to check the forum since my daughter started kindergarten last month.)

1/A) If I recall correctly, 1 "week" equals 1 calendar week, rather than the duration between comment room wipes. I recall debating between the two when we first devised the guidelines and thinking the former was easier to calculate for eligibility since forum wipes weren't always consistent.

2) Yes, I would assume that someone who posted in the CR week preceding and proceeding probably posted in the missing week as well, especially in the earlier years of the forum or if then tended to be quite active in the weeks before and after the missing week. I believe I may have tried to estimate an average frequency for the missing week based on the poster's frequency for the weeks surrounding the missing week.

3) I tried to use context whenever evaluating posts that counted towards someone's eligibility. So, yes, I would factor those (posts that were made during a missing week but were referenced in replies in proceeding archived weeks) into quota.

Hope this helps!

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mr pascal - [illuminatiwealth6666 at gmail dot com]

Hello viewers, it is unfortunate that our secret fraternity have become what most people now use as there aim of getting money, I would say sorry to those who have falling to the once who claim of being an agent of our secret fraternity called Illuminati, any Illuminati member who doesn't show you his or her identity card is a fake and besides avoid those claiming a real agent on facebook there is no real agent on facebook due to the issue of fraudulent. The Illuminati is mainly from Egypt and Kenya, and note that our present head office is now in USA, it is no longer in UK again due to the fraudulent that are now existing there. there are only five agent which was recently send to Nigeria to establish the church of Lucifer over here. And the other thing is that we the real Illuminati are scarce and very have to identify , you can only identify us with our email address and our head office cellphone number which is +1810-346-2540 and our email ID which normally include "666" on it, and please for those who haven't yet be scammed and are willing to join, please be careful cos there are alot of fraudsters and so many imposter now who claims they are real. So now I will want those who are interested to hit this email address: mrunitepeterilluminate666@gmail.com for the link on how to join our fraternity or hit us a message on our whatsapp with this number +2348124752454 for quick conversation on how to start. And there are still alot of fraudsters on whatsapp now and please you shouldn't add anyone on facebook or email any how make sure you are terrified with it before you make any attent, so be careful and also please beware of fraudsters..
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Lady Mystic: Still working on the CR members list, currently up to October 2001. There are however, a couple of grey areas I'd like you to clarify. A.) Does a 'week' consist of a literal week, or only the time between room wipes? For instance, would the period from 8/6/98-8/23/98 count as one week or three? It probably doesn't make much of a difference most of the time, but it could affect the membership status of at least one poster.

2.) When it comes to missing weeks, do we skip over them entirely, or can we surmise that someone who posted in the week preceeding and the week proceeding likely posted in the missing week as well?

3.) Similarly, when it comes to weeks that have missing data, can we count someone as having posted if someone replies to a comment they made that wasn't archived?

Most of these queries won't affect membership totals, and are more about establishing what date someone officially became a member. For instance, depending on exactly how weeks are counted, you yourself could have become a member as early as 8/23/98 or as late as 9/14/98. Not a huge difference, but perhaps relevant for bragging rights.

Spen

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It's still a work in progress. Due to a large number of things, I haven't had much 'net access for most of this year, so I haven't been able to work much.
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Spen: You're welcome! FS wasn't able to find a copy of the story. Sorry! Were you able to finish that project?

Greg B: I just noticed your email; reply sent. I can't delete your profile because I no longer have server access. However, Lynati might be able to help. I messaged her on Facebook.

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*Peeks in*

Lady Mystic, if you see this, would you please delete my TGS CR profile? Thanks.

Greg Bishansky

Lady Mystic: Awesome! Exactly what I was looking for. I remembered the one post per week for 3 months part, but past that, it got confusing. Thank you!

As for "Bye Bye Billy", I know exactly what happened during it (I read the story back in '06, when my account worked), so I'm mainly just looking for the story itself. If he doesn't have it, no biggie.

Spen

Spen: Here's what I have from my old files for TGS CR member guidelines. Please let me know if you need more information, as I only copy/pasted certain sections of the page. As for Fire Storm's fanfic, I'll pass along your request. I don't know if or where he has an archived copy of the story. He might know, or he might be able to answer any questions you have about the story/plot/etc.

- - - - -

ELIGIBILITY:

Current posters and all TGS Staffers are eligible for this service as long as they meet the requirements. People who rarely post or are no longer around but could have once qualified for this service may create a profile.

Frequency of Posts = Minimum Attendance **
minimum 1 per week = 12 weeks (3 months)
minimum 1 per 3 weeks = 16 weeks (4 months)
minimum 1 per 6 weeks = 26 weeks (6 months)
minimum 1 per 12 weeks = 52 weeks (12 months; 1 year)
minimum 1 per 26 weeks = 102 weeks (24 months; 2 years)
minimum 1 per 52 weeks = 156 weeks (36 months; 3 years)
minimum 1 per 102 weeks = 312 weeks (72 months; 6 years)
less than 1 per 102 weeks = Not elligible

** Attendance: the presence in the forum through postings. 1 month equals about 30 days, with 7 days per week.

Not all posts are factored into your eligibility. Valid posts must include replies to other people or comments starting/contributing to a discussion. Posts consisting solely of the following will be ignored. Please understand, due to various factors, everyone isn't available for this service. If you are turned down now, you may be eligible at a later time.

* Top Ten spots, survey questions and answers.
* Questions asking when any series begins or episode airs, and requests for a series to be brought back on the air.
* Posts similar to journals and diaries.
* Announcements of website updates or new material, and requests for people to visit websites, read literature and view artwork.
* Spoilers of shows, fanfic, series, movies, music, books, etc.


SUBMITTING & EDITING DATA:

Please keep the following in mind when submitting new profiles and revising existing ones.

* Limit one profile per person not personae. Exceptions may be granted on an individual basis.


DELETION:

Once a profile is added to the list it will not be removed unless necessary, as dictated by the situation in question. Profiles will remain archived, no matter the recent degree of attendance in the forum, so that people reading the CR Archives can learn more about the people behind the posts. A profile can also be deleted upon the request of the owner. Send all requests to Lady Mystic.

- - - - -

Lady Mystic

Fire Storm: For whatever reason, the adult archive no longer recognizes my password. So out of curiosity, would you happen to have a copy of "Bye, Bye, Billy" floating around somewhere? I kinda need it for research purposes.

Speaking of things I need for research, do you or Lady Mystic have a copy of the old rules for getting a member profile? I'd like to make a list of everyone who has ever been eligible, but finding this out would require knowing what the requirements are.

Spen

Hey.
Latoreia

I do.
TGB

And three months between posts. I guess no one here knows anything about "Game of Thrones". I sure don't.
Spen

Seven years without a wipe. That's a hell of a record. Once it hits a full decade, I'll be over 40.
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Just to give anyone who happens to wander into this old place a topic for conversation, anyone has any ideas of how one would go about inserting Gargoyles and some of the related characters into the universe of Game of Thrones?

This is a sort of backburner fanfiction project I've been working on for a few months.

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Fire Storm: Don`t you mean harpy chew beer?

Kyryn: Wow. Now that was a blast from the past. Good to see you here.

Spen

Well happy new year everyone! Welcome to 2015!
Fire Storm

Eh? Am I invisible? Maybe I'll try a different text colour.
TGB

Wow. Definitely an echo chamber. So sad. I've found a few of our old posters on FB, but am missing some others.

If anyone wants an update, my first kiddo is now almost 11 and I've got a second one who's two. I'm mostly into MLPFIM fandom these days.

Kyryn - [kyryn26 at gmail dot com]

I just found copies of Season 2, vol.2 at a local Walmart. There was an odd misprint on the back: it described the gargoyles as being the defenders of GOTHAM city! Accident or did DC Comics buy the IP when I wasn't looking?

Still no word from Lynati unless she is posting somewhere else I don't know about, but certainly not at her usual haunts.

TGB

Ah, reason spammers got through. The 'real person' check your using doesn't make any effort to disguise the 'code'.
Dur'id the Druid

Oh, I check this out once in awhile. Then I go back to reading or critiquing stuff at FF.net, SpaceBattles, or Suffcient Velocity. Hey, what is the other Sharon pic?
Dur'id the Druid

Yo. I tried to bring it back. I even wrote a few stories, but Lynati's silence was so abrupt and absolute I'm starting to think something happened. I can understand ignoring me but the entire website as well? It was spam free until that point.
TGB

Twenty years now. Too bad this site seems deserted except for spammers. Anyone still floating around out there?

Might as well give a "status update". My fiance is pregnant, and should be delivering in February. I've been working a lot of hours at a junk mail factory, which, combined with all the OB visits, parenting classes and other assorted appointments has severely cut into my free time, which is why I've pretty much been involved in the fandom on a part-time basis for a while now.

Spen

I just like the valuable info you supply in your articles. I'll bookmark your weblog and test once more here frequently. I'm rather sure I'll learn lots of new stuff proper here! Good luck for the next!
Shayne - [shaynekingsford at h-mail dot us]

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weight Loss - [tiffanygainey at gawab dot com]

Tenth for the year! I think I might start crying now.
Spen

This site was... how do you say it? Relevant!! Finally I've found something which helped me. Appreciate it!
portland Seo Pros reviews - [hortensewerner at inbox dot com]

I'm really impressed with your writing skills as well as with the layout on your blog. Is this a paid theme or did you modify it yourself? Either way keep up the nice quality writing, it's rare to see a great blog like this one these days.
best portland seo - [bettynewcomb at t-online dot de]

I don't even know how I ended up here, but I thought this post was good. I do not know who you are but definitely you're going to a famous blogger if you are not already ;) Cheers!
buy cheap viagra online - [emeliatejeda at hotmail dot com]

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vergleich private krankenversicherung - [bonita_leedom at yahoo dot com]

Sorry TGS fans, but it looks like this site is an echo chamber after all. I may post the stories I have written some day, but I can't honestly continue without any kind of staff response. I do have permission to continue on in an unofficial capacity though.
TGB

Appreciate the recommendation. Let me try it out.
__________ - [kathrin dot polson at gmail dot com]

Lynati, check your emails.
TGB

Please check out, and if you like it, review my TMNT/Gargoyle AU Crossover.

The Prologue (short two chapter setup):

A different choice made by a distraught Demona at a crucial moment in 994 C.E. changes everything, and leads to the eventual meeting between the Turtles and the Manhattan Clan in 1994 C.E. -

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9893015/1/TMNTGargoyles-Beginnings-Prologue

Season One (eleven chapters):

Follow the continuing adventures of the TMNT (1987 series) and the Gargoyles as they battle crime in the streets of NYC, and beyond. While in the background a mysterious evil looms whose goal is nothing less the total destruction of life as we know it! -

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9920966/1/TMNT-Gargoyles-Season-One-Beginnings

Season Two (nine chapters, and counting):

The battle for Avalon has been won, now can our heroes survive what is to come? Behold new villains and allies are introduced as the story goes full AU, and future challenges collide with terrors from the past.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10063649/1/TMNT-Gargoyles-Season-Two-Avalon-and-Beyond

Celgress

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www.thegafkc.com/ - [marissapadilla at gmail dot com]

Wow, has it really been 2.5 years since I last posted? Since I last posted, we lost our house, got a new one, LM had our little girl who is now 31 months old now.

Happy solstice day, everyone!

Fire Storm

Has it been that long since I have been here? Sheesh. Yes I would appreciate more timedancer. These days I have been more in the My Little Pony fandom... Even have a couple of fanfics that I update but not often enough.

At any rate, greetings.

silvadel - [silvadel at gmail dot com]

Lol.

That's what I get for assuming.

Oh well, I've seen Hearts of Ice finished to the amazement of all and sundry. Maybe the same will happen here.

Murazor - [critogar at yahoo dot es]

Oh, it's not an echo chamber. I know it doesn't look it, but the cogs are turning.
TGB

Probably talking to an echo chamber, considering how very long it has been since anyone not a spambot last posted here, but I've been collecting the stories of TGS in case there is ever some trouble with the servers.

It'd be a real shame to lose these stories to electronic oblivion.

Murazor - [critogar at yahoo dot es]

Very shortly this website will be famous among all blog viewers, due to it's pleasant posts
____________ - [janeen-liddell at gmail dot com]

My spouse and I stumbled over heree different wweb page and thouight I should check things out. I like what I see so now i'm following you. Look forward to going over your web page for a second time.
ugh.me - [sienna-havens at gmail dot com]

There is Hope! I was contacted by a member of the staff. They hope to continue TimeDancer to its conclusion but WRITERS ARE NEEDED! I don't know if I have what it takes but I am willing to try. (maybe)
If anyone would like to share their ideas with me on how to even do this thing, drop me a line.

Ryan - [ramation75 at gmail dot com]

Ditto with Ryan. Love to see season 5. 10 years though...may be hoping for too much.
D.

The room's finally back? Yahoooo!

Good to see you here, Arlo.

Spen

Just found and read the Time Dancer Saga. Any news on there being a fifth season someday? Really love what I've read so far!
Ryan - [ramation75 at gmail dot com]

Aww, now I feel bad that Spen was asking about me in 2011 and I didn't find out until now.
Arlo

Try the S8 room. Todd only posts here when he knows there's a discussion going on. Heck, I haven't even been checking here much lately.
Spen

I had hoped our resident medieval expert might have weighed in on this question.
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

It was a lyre, wasn't it? I haven't seen the episode in forever, and I'm not at home right now, so I can't check.
Spen

A quick question:
1)What kind of musical instrument was the Magus holding during the flashback from Avalon?

Maybe I'm here; maybe I'm not.

dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

In vaguely TGS-related news, last night's episode of "Grimm" featured a Nuckelavee.
Spen

Spen> I was a shameful lurker, ha ha... I didn't have the guts to contribute anything of substance, I guess. But it still makes me very happy to see you guys here alive and kicking. :)
Shaiya

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Helmet Armor

Shaiya : I don't recall seeing your name in the archives. Did you use another name when you were here before?

In any event, welcome back!

Spen

I'm really so glad to see that the CR is still here and alive. It seems like a lot of time went by without me noticing, and when I look up, the world is changed. I can understand just a little bit of what the Manhattan clan was feeling in Awakenings... but it's good to see everyone, even if most of the faces are people I don't think I ever met.
Shaiya

DPH : Ugh, you have my sympathies. Just the thought of my dad moving back in with me... yikes.
Spen

Spen - My relationship with my dad has improved . . . because we did not live together. The prospect of him moving back in with me is . . . not pleasant.

Happy Summer Solstice!!

**dph grabs a fire extinguisher off the wall with a look of 'do not ask' on his face**

dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Also, new interest in the series leads to feelings of, "Hey, I should work on that tonight!" by the remaining staff. (As opposed to, "Hm, I should work on that some time this month...")

Oh, hey, I owe a reply to Lady Mystic!

Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]

DPH : Sorry to hear about your father's loss.

Regarding pet names, in my (admittedly limited) experience, pet names reveal more about the person who gave the name than they do about the person who it was given to. Love can make you blind to faults, and only see their good side (or even just a percived good side).

Murazor : Welcome back! On behalf of the current staff, please feel free to give whatever comments you feel like regarding the older stories. One of our goals for season four is to try and fix things that perhaps weren't handled so well in previous seasons, so criticism is highly appriciated. It would be quite helpful to get a fresh opinion on some things.

Spen

Also, dph? Sorry about your loss and hope that your father pulls through. What he is passing through sounds quite horrible.
Murazor - [critogar@yahoo.es]

I read the comic (all of it) and it was a worthy continuation, while it lasted. However, I would do this out of some vague interest for fanworks in general and TGS in particular.
Murazor - [critogar@yahoo.es]

MURAZOR> I'd recommend picking up the SLG Gargoyles comic instead. Written by Greg Weisman.
Greg Bishansky

1st, bad news. My stepmother died this morning from cancer. No, I wasn't that close, but I'm more concerned about how my dad is taking it. The 2nd time to lose a spouse to cancer isn't easy, especially when it's on the same floor of the same hospital.

2nd, gxb - at least in my experience, pet names usually reflect an aspect of a personality of the person given them.

dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Long time no see.

So... I was thinking of re-reading TGS.

I mostly enjoyed it back then, but these days I regard myself as a more discerning reader and feel like seeing how my old favourites have stood to the test of time.

Might post comments and criticism of what I read and all that.

Murazor - [critogar@yahoo.es]

It was a pet name!
Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!

Gxb - I apologize for not replying sooner. The question I have is how to interpret what Goliath means by "Angel of the Night". With contemporary thinking, I view "Angel of Night" as a innocent, pure being. But that is human contemporary thinking, not the way a gargoyle from Goliath's time would view it. Yes, I mean from a gargoyle perspective not a human perspective.
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Greg Bishansky> True, and Brooklyn's dialogue from Clan Building Volume 2 "Tyrants" sums it up well:

"Remember, this is Demona Classic. Tenth century and...

Stil the traitor who caused The Wyvern Massacre!"

Antiyonder

I emailed Disney which was disneyinfo@disneyhelp.com asking them if they are going to release the rest of the Gargoyles Series on DVD in 2012 of Season 2, Volume 2 and Season 3 and if there are plans for them and they replied to me by email that there are tentative plans to release the rest of the Gargoyles series on dvd in 2012. no further details are available at this time.
Jonny Modlin - [jmodlin210@gmail.com]
Jonny Modlin

DPH> You mean the younger Demona who stole the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena with every intent of giving it to the Archmage?

She's not scitzo. She doesn't have two personalities. Does nineteen year old DPH have a different personality than however old you are now?

Time can change us, but we remain the same person.

Greg Bishansky

gxb - I was thinking about the younger Demona from "Vows", but thanks for the edification. If Demona was an onion, I wonder if anybody has close people have gotten to the core of her.
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

DPH> <<What would happen if Demona, during the daytime, was exposed to Nokkar's 'memory cleanser'? Would we briefly see Goliath's "Angel of the Night"? Sorry, if I'm misunderstanding, but I view Goliath's "Angel of the Night" and Demona as two completely different personalities.>>

Except they're not. Even back in the Dark Ages, she was power hungry.

And, to quote Greg:

"3. As for Hudson, he is Demona's father. So I think it's much tougher on him. The only saving grace, such as it is, is that I think by the time of the massacre, Hudson had a clearer sense of Demona's true nature. I think deep down the betrayal was less of a shock to him then it was to Goliath. Not that he wasn't surprised. You can see how warmly he greets her in "Awakening, Part Four" when she first resurfaces. But in the end and darkly, I think her role in things saddens but doesn't shock him. I also think he CHOSE to focus his real hatred on Hakon Clan-Slaughterer."

Keep in mind, even in the "good days" she was still the Archmage's apprentice, she was still urging Goliath to take the leadership from Hudson. She was still willing to conspire with the Captain against the humans of the castle...

She was always a Lady Macbeth, so to speak.

Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!

gxb - There's nature vs norture. I believe there is a line between basic personality and life experiences.

What would happen if Demona, during the daytime, was exposed to Nokkar's 'memory cleanser'? Would we briefly see Goliath's "Angel of the Night"? Sorry, if I'm misunderstanding, but I view Goliath's "Angel of the Night" and Demona as two completely different personalities.

dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

I think it's one of those cases of the writers forgetting to distinguish between what the audience knows and the characters know. Kind of like the production team of "The Goliath Chronicles" taking it for granted that the public know that the gargoyles are intelligent. (Greg Weisman once said that in his own plans for the "Goliath on trial" story, most of the New Yorkers would consider the notion of Goliath on trial as almost as absurd as a mountain lion on trial.)
Todd Jensen

Oh, you know how every fanfic that takes place after Hunter's Moon has the gargoyles just knowing that Dominique Destine is Demona and the Nightstone connection?

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=14505

Yeah... how did Angela know where Demona lived in the TGS ficverse? Did she put a return address on that package she sent Angela?

If she did, that's not very prudent. I figured Demona would be smarter than that. Angela is her daughter, but Goliath is still her enemy.

Greg Bishansky
Elisa Maza, why don't you just take that "sodie pop" can and stick the straw right into New York's eye!

Greg : Thanks, that's what I was trying to say.
Spen

"Anyone who would change Elisa into a gargoyle or Goliath into a human does not fundamentally understand these characters." -Greg Weisman, Gathering 2003 Blue Mug a Guest.
Greg Bishansky

Spen - I'm talking about personality. There's a big difference between personality and up-bringing. We know about a great deal about Demona, not much about Goliath's "Angel of the Night". And yes, those are two very different personalities (see Vows).
dph of rules

Elisa wouldn't be Elisa if she'd been born a gargoyle, so it really isn't a fair comparison.
Spen

Here's a thought question.
If Goliath, his "Angel of the Night", and Elisa Maza had all grown up in a gargoyle rookery, who would have Goliath chosen as his mate?

dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

Leo : We haven't even hit 400K yet. This would be considered a slow week in 1999. (The record BTW is 770K.)
Spen

6th!

And 4 years since last refresh.


*nostalgic moment*

I remember way back in another lifetime when the CR refreshed every week.

In addition to commentary on whatever TGS story was released; in the old days before Twitter, before Facebook, before My Space, before Live Journal, THIS is where most of the old fans posted random bloggings. Sometimes the amount of text posted in the last four years would fill an entire week. ;)

Leo

(5th)Fifth!!!!!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
God Bless you All!

Wow! Fourth! Woo hoo!

Ok, now for the business:
My friends are in a band called the Five Year Mission. They're a Star Trek TOS tribute band, writing one song for every episode, they've released "Year Two" (16 song increments) recently, and are working on "Year 3." They're in a contest for the Super Bowl here in Indianapolis, sponsored by the Rolling Stone Magazine. If they win, they get to open for Janes Addiction and The Roots. Currently they're losing votes to a band that made an appeal to the guy that owns the Houston Rockets, who re-tweeted. That band is some college band in Bloomington, Indiana. We need your help. Revenge of the Nerds and all. Please please please vote for the Five Year Mission at the link of my name. You can vote once a day until Sunday, January 29th at 8pm. Make sure you go through the process, which involves clicking 'vote' twice in the end, so that 'vote' changes to 'voted'. And please help get the word out. Gargoyles fans can accomplish anything. :) Thank you.

Dezi - [nothingtofear@hotmail.com]

I'm third, and now living in Georgia.
Thomas Forsyth - [tmlforsyth@gmail.com]

New year. Roll Call!! Sound off. I'm number Two. The year from hell is over.

Starsinger

Starsinger

Happy new year, everyone!
Spen

The Dragon Lady has gone Between for all time. Anne you will be missed.
Staringer - [x]

AIDAN - If you're looking for the episode that that line came from, it was "Outfoxed" (the scene where Goliath's fighting the cybots, before they take him on board Fortress Two).
Todd Jensen

My band covers the theme song, and are recording soon, and we want to use the "How can you reason...with machines!" quote. We used to talk about how awesome it was, but now, for some reason I can't find it. I've watched all the episodes I thought it was but nothing.

Help?

Aidan - [foolsilldestroyyouall@hotmail.com]

Happy Gargoyles day, everyone!

(I had to find some excuse to post this month.)

Spen

Guandalug - Could you email me?
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

DPH: Heck yeah. I just realized the other day that I've been posting here for six and a half years. This does not seem possible. Two years I could buy, but six? And I don't think Daniel has posted at all during the time I've been here. The last time I remember seeing him was during Doug's little 'comeback' at the start of '05.

Where *did* these last six years go, anyway?

Spen

I wonder how Daniel Johnson is doing.

Boy, how the years go by.

dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

I am missing the avalon archive it is - AVMists is already back up and running (still got some minor issues with charsets all around the GFW, but that's about it). And I still got to fix the GFW email adresses, those are currently broken (well, rather "absent", for I didn't get to update the mailserver yet ;) )

I'll send you an email later t'day.

Guandalug
Not really here

Guan- Thanks! And I've got some backups; I'm not sure if you mean Avalon Mists or the Avalon Archives, but I think I have them both. Can I have your current email, please?
Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]

TGS is back. And whoever decided (back when the last overhaul happened) that it would be nice to php-'include()' the menu via full URL - thanks a lot, I had to fix that. ;)
Guandalug
Not really here

Yes, TGS is down. As is all of GFW, actually. The domain has been transferred, as the server the site was running on is going to be decomissioned. Right now I am waiting for the new domain registrar to update my nameserver changes - afterwards, I'll re-establish all the old pages I have (that is, all of GFW I could still find, minus avalon, which seems to be MIA). Further news once I get the site up and running again.
Guandalug
Not really here

Huh. It seems Opera changes the colour of dark-coloured text. It's weird seeing Todd in white.
Spen

Todd, I found Greg's answer to my question about the Japanese gargoyle clan being safe to be interesting. http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13465

To me, that reply implies that certain realities about the Japanese gargoyle clan are in flux.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Since in the "Bad Guys" comic book, Vinnie was looking for the train from Tokyo to Ishimura, Ishimura must be on the same island as Tokyo - Honshu. But that's the only hint we have about its location in Japan.
Todd Jensen

Hmm. Interesting. Very Interesting. It leads to the follow-up question that I wanted to ask. Oh yea, to what am I referring?
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=13464

I've wondered if Avalon was a sentient entity. I guess that implies the answer to my question.

On another note, in the tgs universe, is the location of the Japanese gargoyles clan in the . . . danger zone? I'm sorry, but I don't know my Japanese geography that well.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Happy Belated Birthday GXB.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

On the off chance he checks in here today, happy birthday, Greg B.!
Spen

To be honest, I never did like the stories "Games Without Frontiers" and "Requiem". Aside from establishing future history, I didn't see anything usefull coming from "Games Without Frontiers". Timedancer never should have been used to establish future history, imo.
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Not a conversation, just a very well-done series of homages.
Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]

Ok, I guess I'm missing half of a conversation when reading Lynati's latest post.
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

*re-reading Games Without Frontiers*

Holy Jalapena, I can't believe I MISSED all of that the first time through! XD But I must have missed it, because I don't think I could have forgotten about it had I noticed it before.

Entity, wherever you are, I'm 90% sure my thanks should go to you.

Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]

SPEN - Nationwide. They're going out of business, thanks to their financial problems.

I'll miss them; for all the talk about buying books on-line, brick-and-mortar bookstores are useful in a lot of ways. For example, many books that I've learned about and frequently enjoyed, I learned about through seeing them on the shelves in bookstores or in libraries. I've discovered far fewer through surfing the Internet.

Todd Jensen

Todd : Responding to something you said in the S8 room, since I can't post there. Is that just your local Borders that's closing, or is it nationwide?

For the last couple of years, Borders has taken "winter residence" at what used to be B. Dalton's. So if they're not coming back, between that, B. Dalton closing, and our old used book store going out of business, that means that there will be absolutely *no* bookstores south of the Quad Cities.

Spen

I guess we're back to being dead. Gosh, and we were doing so well, too.
Spen

gxb - I suppose you had a problem with Green using multiple names as well?

It was my dad's last living brother who died. Yes, I am that emotionally distant about it.

I had a peculiar thing happen to me yesterday morning. I had a splinter get beneath my right pinkie fingernail and I have involuntary reactions to certain things.

dph of rules
There is at least one absolute. Whatever happened to simplicity?

Greg B. : He's probably just doing it to avoid flaming under his own name.
Spen

DPH> Sorry about your relative. Really.

But, I need to ask. What's with the whole hologram thing? It's been ten years, isn't it time you dropped it?

Greg Bishansky

DPH's hologram : Think that maybe DPH could indulge my curiosity and send me an e-mail explaining all this in plain english?
Spen - [spencatlover@yahoo.com]

Algernon - <I think DHP is refering to the fact that there hasn't been a new TGS story in almost five years. After that long a hiatus, it's hard to imagine the series returning in any meaningful way.> I'm implying much more than that.

Spen - Sorry about the vagueness, dph left very specific instructions about trying not to break one of the cr rules.

dph's hologram
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Another obstacle beside the hiatus is the comic books. Now that they've come out, we've seen that the direction Greg Weisman had planned for the Gargoyles Universe after "Hunter's Moon" differed dramatically from TGS in many ways (Thailog resurfacing far sooner, Brentwood defecting to him, Castaway being far shrewder in handling his public image - as in forbidding Quarrymen on Halloween patrol to carry hammers, different details in Brooklyn's Timedancing and in the Stone of Destiny story, a different leadership for the Illuminati, etc.).

As Bishansky (I think) suggested a few weeks ago, coming up with a new fanfic project that picks up where "Clan-Building" ended might be a better approach.

Todd Jensen

SPEN> I think DHP is refering to the fact that there hasn't been a new TGS story in almost five years. After that long a hiatus, it's hard to imagine the series returning in any meaningful way.
Algernon

DPH's hologram : Um, this could just be me being thick, per usual, but what are you talking about? The only thing I can see is that technically, HS4 was released on November 1st. But three minutes (central time) shouldn't really count against intent.
Spen

By the dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delusional ),
delusional means "A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence"
denial means "the rejection of the truth of a proposition, doctrine" according to http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/denial .

And I quote http://tgs.gargoyles-fans.org/_CurrentEpisodes.php to say the latest story was "Published 10-31-2006".

By the way, dph's dad's last suriving sibling died last night. DPH's brother and dph himself are going to be pallbearers.

dph's hologram
Whatever happened to simplicity?

And for all we know, Mab might never get beyond Avalon. (At least, that's how the televison series handled the "enhanced Archmage" - though I think that if Greg Weisman ever gets to tell the story of Mab's escape, he'll make it distinct from "Avalon".)
Todd Jensen

Greg B. : Your blog isn't letting me post for some reason, so I just wanted to tell you, thanks.
Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

TODD> It is a fine line, but we know that come 2198, the existence of the Third Race and Avalon is still secret.

But, it can still be done. Look at what Jackal did in "Grief"

Greg Bishansky

ALGERNON - Yes, I've sometimes wondered what the fallout for Mab's return would have been in Greg Weisman's Master Plan (assuming he'd had the opportunity to work out the details for that).

I remember that TGS received some criticism for having the war with the Unseelie Court being mainly private (harsh winter weather, but nothing more than that); I wonder whether Greg would have made Mab's escape and new war with Oberon much more devastating. (Of course, there'd be problems with having too much open cataclysm in the present-day Gargoyles Universe. I can see why Greg didn't have the Space-Spawn invade and conquer Earth until 2198 - well out of the life-span of the audience.)

Todd Jensen

TODD> I'm very much in agreement with you Todd, something that's essentially a civil war among the Third Race should have darn near cataclysmic results. We've seen what individual Children like Anubis are capable of when their power is fully unleashed.

Considering the Mab is both vastly more powerful the Oberon and implied by Greg to be violently insane, her return should be a near-apocalyptic event for the Gargoyles Universe.

Algernon

Another thought on the Oberon-Mab war (if anybody here's still thinking of doing a fanfic continuation from where "Clan-Building" left off):

I've long suspected that Oberon's overthrow of Mab must have left side effects on the human world. These kinds of superhuman regime changes generally do act like cataclysms (look at the description of Zeus's overthrow of Cronus in Greek mythology, for example). For that matter, Shakespeare shows some of that in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" with the consequences to the weather from Oberon and Titania's quarrel over the little Indian boy:

Therefore the winds, piping to us in vain,
As in revenge, have suck'd up from the sea
Contagious fogs; which, falling in the land,
Hath every pelting river made so proud
That they have overborne their continents.
The ox hath therefore strech'd his yoke in vain,
The ploughman lost his sweat, and the green corn
Hath rotted ere his youth attain'd a beard.
The fold stands empty in the drowned field,
And crows are fatted with the murrion flock;
The nine men's morris is fill'd up with mud,
And the quaint mazes in the wanton green,
For lack of tread, are undistinguishable.
The human mortals want their winter here;
No night is now with hymn or carol blest.
Therefore the moon (the governess of floods),
Pale in her anger, washes all the air,
That rheumatic diseases do abound.
And thorough this distemperature, we see
The seasons alter: hoary-headed frosts
Fall in the fresh lap of the crimson rose,
And on old Hiems' thin and icy crown
An odorous chaplet of sweet summer buds
Is, as in mockery, set; the spring, the summer,
The childing autumn, angry winter, change
Their wonted liveries; and the mazed world,
By their increase, now knows not which is which.
And this same progeny of evils comes
From our debate, from our dissension;
We are their parents and their original.

Now all of this tumult is coming from a "sleeping in separate beds"-type quarrel between Oberon and Titania; a war which ends with the previous ruler being deposed and the victor replacing her would be even more serious.

Thanks to some of Greg's remarks at "Ask Greg", we can gather now that Oberon's victory over Mab was apparently in the 5th or early 6th centuries. Greg mentioned that it took place after Merlin's birth, which was in the 5th century. But Oberon must have been enthroned in Avalon by the time that the wounded Arthur was brought to him in 542; Greg mentions that Oberon granted Arthur sanctuary on Avalon (no small feat, in light of his disapproval of the Avalon clan's presence in "Ill Met By Moonlight"). So the overthrow of Mab must have happened before 542, but at some point after Merlin's birth in the 5th century - narrowing it down to the "Arthurian Age" of the late 5th and early 6th centuries.

Now, in the early 6th century, there *does* seem to have been a major catastrophe of some sort (evidence from things like tree rings dating to this period). Historians who specialize in such things have speculated on the cause, such as a disastrous encounter with a comet or a major volcanic eruption. In the Gargoyles Universe, could this have been fallout from Oberon and Mab's war? The only problem is that it might have been a little too late for the timing to work; Greg also said that Oberon gave Arthur haven in Avalon because he owed Merlin a favor, suggesting that Merlin was instrumental in Mab's defeat. Merlin was imprisoned by Nimue not long after Arthur became king - in 500, according to Gargoyles Universe chronology - so by the time that the big worldwide catastrophe took place (it seems to have been around 530, according to historians), he must have been locked away in his cave for some time. So the war between Oberon and Mab and the early 6th century cataclysm might not be related after all - unless some kind of delayed effect was at work. But it still seems like an intriguing idea.

Todd Jensen

Yeah, I'm using IE 4.0. That's the best thing this old computer can handle. (I'm using Windows 95).
Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

Are you just using Internet Explorer? Cause you might have better luck going to the site if you try an alternative like FoxFire or Google Chrome.
Antiyonder

It looks like that feature doesn't work when accessing the site through the web archive. (Which is the only way I can look at the site, as my computer crashes whenever I try to go to Station 8 directly.)
Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

It's still there, but I think I might know why you haven't been able to post a comment or find the archives. I think so anyway.

Put your mouse's cursor on the link to the Comment Room (don't click), and then the following list should appear:

- Post A Comment.
- Last Week's Comments.
- Comment Room Archive.

Antiyonder

Antiyonder : Hello there! Good to see you on this side of the pond. Thanks for answering my question. By the way, did Gore get rid of the comment room archive? I can't seem to find it.
Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

Lurked here every now and then, and have several comments to make.

Spen> Last week, Arlo agreed to cool down and everyone agreed to let bygones be bygones.

He even made some nice contributions to GargWiki.

Greg B> PIT was a TGC invention anyway and really shouldn't have been in this.


Agreed for the most part, but I have to say that some fans in the S8 Comment Room were on to something by suggesting that PIT is used as a PETA type organization.

You know, trying to fight for Gargoyles rights, but going about it all wrong. And as also mentioned it makes a nice parallel to the more level headed Quarrymen that we've seen in the comics.

Antiyonder

I've managed to sort of "back-door" my way into station 8. I still can't post, but at least I can read what's going on.

So for anyone here who posts there, could someone tell me when on Earth *Arlo* became a regular poster? Last I saw of him he was still doing his "you're all idiots, and I'm smarter than all of you. And you're a waste of life!" reutine. So what changed? Or am I confusing him with someone else?

Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

One thought I had about Xanatos and his truce with the gargoyles. His truce with the gargoyles doesn't mean the end of his scheming, since the gargoyles weren't the main target of his schemes. They were the means, not the ends. Xanatos's goal was to increase his wealth, power, and influence, and to become immortal. He wanted the gargoyles to help achieve those goals, and when it became clear that they wouldn't be his servants, shifted his plans to create his own gargoyles (the Steel Clan, the Mutates, Thailog). After the first season (except for "The Price", where he kidnapped Hudson to use as a guinea pig for the Cauldron of Life) he wasn't even making the gargoyles his main targets; they fought, yes, but more because the gargoyles discovered one of his schemes (like the Coyote Carving plan) than because he was deliberately hunting them down.

Just because Xanatos has made a cease-fire with the clan doesn't mean he'd give up his scheming (including his search for immortality). He'd work to make certain that the gargoyles couldn't interfere, of course (and with them in the same castle as himself, it would be more of a challenge than when they were living in the clock tower), but even that might not be a problem. (Take the Stone of Destiny case - the gargoyles suspect correctly that he'll try to steal the Stone and the Manhattan and London clans unite to thwart him. And Xanatos still pulls it off - in a typical Xanatosian style, by switching stones while everyone's looking at an empty shoebox, with all those flying robots being just the diversion.)

No, I don't think Xanatos has to give up being a machiavellian schemer when he made a detente with the gargoyles. His attempts to capture and control the clan were never the foundation of those schemes.

Todd Jensen

I'm flattered that people are still talking about that story. That's one of the only two Gargoyles fanfics I've written that I care to remember (the other one being my submission to the 2009 Gathering Anthology), probably because it was a genuine labor of love. I remember starting it Labor Day weekend in order to be sure that it would be ready for posting by December 1st.

Spen: I actually wonder if Greg B is not being harsh enough. There were a few TGS stories (in particular "Reunions" and the Timedancer story "Requiem") where it seemed like the gargoyles were blatantly setting aside their ways in favor of human customs.

In fact, it reminds me of the first time I read Issue #6 of the comic. When Coldstone hears the words "biological son," he reacts as if Angela is speaking in another language. My first thought was of what happened at the end of "Reunions," and my second thought was, "yeah, Greg Weisman did it right."

Harvester of Eyes

Greg B. : Well, "Gargoyle Conquistadors" might be putting it a bit too harshly. I don't think it's so much a conscious desire to "de-gargoyleize" the gargoyles, as it is a simple reflection of the fact that, as humans, we're generally guilty of "thinking like humans". I don't have any other objections to your arguement, though.

Thanks for the link, incidentally. I apperently missed that story during my little 'fandom hiatus' at the end of '06. Excellent job, Harvester! And to anyone reading this, go read that story. If Greg B. and I both agree on it, it must be good.

Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

I wrote this about a year ago, but have since re-worked it some. Now, since this is a fanfiction comment room, I thought it could make for some interesting discussion.

***

Can Fans Love Too Much?

Well, the above answer is definitely yes if you talk about how far some fans get when they become obsessed, but that's not what I am talking about. If "Romeo and Juliet" was written by fans, they wouldn't have died.

When you get into the realm of fandom, and see what directions fans want a series and its characters to go in, I begin to wonder if some fans have a subconscious desire to make things less interesting. Let's take a look at "Gargoyles" for this entry, as it's the fandom I know best.

I used to read a lot of "Gargoyles" fanfiction, and I still mingle with a lot of the fans on various forums. But whenever we get into a serious discussion on what should happen next, I am honestly surprised whenever someone suggests something good, or even credible. Because almost all the time, fans throw up wish lists that would completely rob the series of its teeth.

Take Goliath and Elisa's love story, for example. It took them sixty-five episodes to even kiss, and almost as long for Elisa to acknowledge her feelings for him. When Elisa briefly got cold feet in "Invitation Only," a good portion of the fandom revolted. Weisman was accused of violating the integrity of the characters, people were angry, and accused Elisa of acting out of character. To which I ask, did any of you ever watch the sixty-five episodes of the series? Ever? This isn't just an interracial relationship, this is interspecies, and it has a lot of very real consequences.

What do most fans want? For Goliath and Elisa to quickly get married and have lots of babies together. As for the former, Weisman has said a commitment ceremony is coming eventually. As for the latter, gargoyles and humans cannot procreate together. May I add that the notion upsets a lot of fans?

And then these fans come up with these weird loopholes to try to get Goliath and Elisa to procreate, usually involving science or sorcery. The two names that get thrown out there the most are Puck and Dr. Anton Sevarius. You can tell that the fans who mention them don't stop at all to think. Puck is a trickster, not a genie. He'll do you no favors without something blowing up in your face for his own amusement. And as for Sevarius... um... he's only slightly less immoral than Joseph "Angel of Death" Mengele. Whenever someone suggests he help Goliath and Elisa, I want to smack them upside the head.

Goliath and Elisa are in love, but it shouldn't be easy. Why make it less interesting.

Next is Demona, who is probably the series' greatest villain. She has a lot of depth, she's very compelling, and you can understand why she is a genocidal bitch. She had a rough life, filled with tragedy. Of course, now she knows her daughter, Angela, exists. Does she love her daughter? Of course. And yes, she helped the clan defeat Thailog after he threatened to kill her. There is a large portion of the fandom who believe that Demona will reform and all it will take is a hug from Angela. Those people tend to forget that the very next time Demona and Angela saw each other, Demona tried to commit mass genocide on the human race, and that she risked Angela's own life to escape after her scheme was foiled.

Demona loves her daughter very much, which is why I scratch my head when people don't think that Angela will become Demona's newest excuse. Let's face it, Demona's entire life is one big rationalization. Nothing is ever her fault, it's either the humans' or Goliath's. If she can use protecting Angela as justification for future attempts at genocide, she will.

Demona is a tragic character, and while Weisman has said she will eventually have an epiphany, it shouldn't be a happy moment, it should be a tragic moment... when she realizes what she sacrificed because she is a fuck up. It won't happen until sometime during the "Gargoyles: 2198" spin-off, well after Angela is dead.

"DEMONA - For over a thousand years, Demona has plotted against humanity, blaming them for crimes against the gargoyle race. Now that a greater threat, the Space-Spawn, has reared it's many ugly heads, Demona has reluctantly joined Samson's resistance cell. But no one, including Demona herself, is fully confident that she'll continue to fight on the side of the angels. This may be her last chance at redemption... or her final opportunity to annihilate the human race. Still, Samson felt it necessary to actively recruit her. It's hard to pass up the help of a warrior who's survived a millennium's worth of battles, a sorceress who knows how to combine ancient magic with modern technology. And then there's that bit about her turning into a human during the day. The only question is how she will use her talents. For now, she's siding with the resistance. But can that last?"

I rest my case on this one. So, I think I'll pimp my friend, Rob's excellent Demona on Christmas Eve story that completely subverts what most fanfiction would do:

Check out "Tis the Season" http://fanfic.gargoyles-fans.org/author.php?author=Harvester%2Bof%2BEyes&sortorder=DESC

Then there are other examples, such as fans wanting to restore Coldstone and Coldfire to flesh and blood... without logically thinking of how. Puck and Sevarius get trotted out again for this one, and I need not repeat why that's just stupid. Not to mention, it would cheapen their original deaths.

There were even a few examples of people preferring David Xanatos's depiction in the non-canon "The Goliath Chronicles" to the in character depiction in the comic book. TGC emasculated him by turning him into "Mr. Sappy Good Guy" while the comic depicts it as an uneasy alliance, and Xanatos still willing to use the gargoyles to his own ends, even if he's learned he needs to give a little too.

Even the GargWiki engaged in this misconception at a time. The opening paragraph for David Xanatos' entry originally read:

"David Xanatos - The founder, owner, and CEO of Xanatos Enterprises. Once the gargoyles' greatest enemy, but now their current protector."

Eventually, Greg Weisman himself edited this paragraph to read:

"David Xanatos is the founder, owner, and CEO of Xanatos Enterprises. Once the gargoyles' greatest enemy, but now their... host."

Alas, many fans still don't get it. And to some, that means he's either a good guy or a bad guy, and some have trouble grasping nuances.

And finally, one of the big ones. A lot of fans hate the gargoyle species itself. Hate them. Okay, maybe not the species but the cultural identity. So many of them work very hard to strip gargoyles of everything that makes them culturally unique and turn them into little more than "humans with wings." Looking different is cool. Thinking fundamentally different is not. So, these fans are, well, little different than John Castaway and the Quarrymen in my mind, expect instead of wanting to destroy them, they want to "civilize them." They're like Spanish Conquistadors. Wait, maybe that's a good name for the "Gargoyles" revisionists. Gargoyle Conquistadors.

There are plenty of other examples out there, and while I think it boils down to wanting to see your favorite characters happy, well, happy characters seldom lead to good drama. So, to all the fans out there who want to see the series continue, please don't wish to rob the series of its teeth, because if you had your way, it would be very dull. It would not be the series we fell in love with.

Hmm, I wonder if any "Transformers" fans want Optimus Prime and Megatron to be friends?

***

Thoughts? Flames?

Greg Bishansky

SPEN - Yes, especially since Hunter's Moon in 1996 was in late October - just a couple of weeks before the election. Just imagine Clinton and Dole besieged by reporters asking for their thoughts on living gargoyles in New York.
Todd Jensen

And when exactly did this room stop automatically doing the AT DOT thing?
Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

Lynati : Hmmm. Well, I suppose it couldn't hurt to give it a try. Of course, that would kinda be depleting (sp?) the amount of remaining non-TGS affiliated readers, but I guess I could give it a shot. My new e-mail address is below.

Todd : That reminds me, I've always wondered what sort of influence the gargoyles revelation would have had on the presidential election in '96.

Spen - [spencatlover@yahoo.com]
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

Spen: No, we have not officially decided TGS will not be continuing. That said, it is still on indefinite hiatus, and while some work was done on it in the last year, none of the stories worked on were brought to completion. [Personally, I'd like to see both of these projects.] So would I. And thank you. ...while you have a low opinion of your writing ability, how are you with giving feedback on story ideas? It would be nice to have someone new to talk to about the stories planned for season 4, and maybe iron out the remaining wrinkles.

Bishansky: Thank you for the offer and the other compliments, but I really have enough going on with all the universes I'm working on, let alone the real world, to stack another cosm onto the pile. Good luck!

Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]

CHIP - Good point - and we do know that Greg planned for New Camelot to be in Antarctica - certainly something that would fit Arthur's new role being on a larger stage than Britain.

Peter David (who, I recall, has done some writing for "Young Justice", though I can't remember the details) wrote a humorous fantasy novel called "Knight Life" in which King Arthur, after returning to the modern world from Avalon, runs for mayor in New York. I don't seriously see that happening in the Gargoyles Universe, of course, but it would have been an entertaining prospect. (I've often thought that a mayoral race in which the gargoyles become a major campaign issue would have been a great idea, if done properly; the Goliath Chronicles wasted the idea in "Ransom".)

Todd Jensen

Todd> This is not Britain, but a far larger stage...

I LIKED that about TGS, it was one of the few moves I agreed with, and I felt that he was underused...

I'm not saying he SHOULD join King Arthur's knights in a reboot, since Greg has his "Heroes of Ulster" series idea...but I do think that Rory joining Arthur's knights was a very cool idea. And not every knight in the olden days traveled with Arthur, most of them did good deeds off on their own...reconvening at Camelot every once in a while...I tend to think that that would be New Camelot's purpose as well, since Greg did say that their clan's protectorate was on more global scale...with ALL that in mind, who's to say that Rory can't be a knight AND in Ireland at the same time?

Chip Coffin - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]

BISHANSKY - According to what I remember, the real purpose for the search for a cure was for Xanatos to make peace with Elisa - though that sounds more like "Goliath Chronicles" Xanatos than the Xanatos of Greg Weisman's MasterPlan.

I had similar thoughts about Nicole St. John and Jeffrey Pearson (I hope I'm remembering his name correctly); the television series already had a media figure in the form of Travis Marshall. (I didn't have similar problems with Regina Fitzwalter in "TGS: Pendragon", since a series set largely in Britain would need its own media representative.)

While on the subject of "Pendragon" and inventing new characters, one word of advice if a new "Pendragon" fanfic series is written: keep Arthur's entourage limited to Griff, Blanchefleur (once she leaves the Illuminati to team up with Arthur and Griff - which probably wouldn't happen until a few episodes into the series) and Merlin (once he's found, which would be only after several adventures) - at least until Arthur founds New Camelot and has a permanent base of operations. I think that we gave him too many knights in "TGS: Pendragon" too early. (It didn't help that the people who came up with Leba and Dulcinea left, leaving us uncertain about how to handle them. As for Rory, while I was the one who came up with the idea of his joining Arthur's knights, I now look on that as a mistake; the evidence from the end of "The Hound of Ulster" indicated that his place was in Ireland, not in Britain.)

Todd Jensen

LYNATI> I can definitely appreciate wanting to get all your stories and framework out there. While it will be a few months before this crew here makes a final decision, I just thought I'd let you know that if you change your mind, it'd be cool, and you'd be more than welcome. You're great at keeping projects organized, and documented, and you have a lot of great ideas.

Those ideas, we could put through the prism of the new canon, and see what we come up with. The season four Nightstone arc for TGS can still be used in a different but similar form. That's something Neo-TGS (for lack of a better term at the moment) would definitely get to, what with Nightstone's current status quo.

Think about it. Despite our personal disagreements, I have always respected your abilities and work ethic.

TODD> I am right there with you. I remember when I first came on board TGS, and most of the first season was planned, I was wondering who this Dr. Goldblum character was, and why Dr. Sato wasn't being used instead.

Then I wondered why they were bothering to look for a cure for the Mutates when, by the end of "The Cage," the Mutates were fine with what they were. In fact, Talon even said in that very episode that he was long past caring about an antidote. TGS tossed out character development that in the canon series right there. It never sat well with me. Ignoring things Greg revealed later is one thing, ignoring canon is something else entirely.

Greg Bishansky

A note about the theory that Morgana is Oberon and Titania's daughter (in Greg Weisman's Master Plan). I remember speculating earlier that their daughter was Gloriana from Spenser's "Faerie Queene" (since she was Oberon's daughter in the poem - and presumably, a legitimate daughter, since she succeeded him to the throne). But Morgana would probably be a better choice for that role. She's an already-extant character (if in canon-by-training), which would result in a tighter set-up than if Gloriana (not even hinted at in any of Greg Weisman's comments) had that role. (My experiences with TGS have taught me to introduce new characters sparingly; we probably came up with far too many of them. The comic book introduced a few new characters, of course - Shari, Quincy Hemings, Constance, Staghart, Peredur, Duval, Blanchefleur, and Brother Valmont - but took care to do so only whenever their role couldn't be played by any of the characters from the televised episodes, and still did a lot with the characters introduced in the television series; thus, when they needed a doctor to tend to Goliath - and Maggie after that, discovering in the process that she was pregnant - they used Dr. Sato from "Deadly Force" rather than an entirely new doctor.)

I do think that Greg's explanation for Morgana's faerie background (a changeling swapped for Gorlois and Igraine's daughter) was a lot better than the explanation I came up with for TGS, that Igraine was one of the Third Race (the drawback to that was that I wanted Arthur to be 100% human).

Todd Jensen

SPEN> <<Hmmm. Interesting. But how did they raise the kind of money needed to buy a TV station? Yes, I'm sure Xanatos had to pay a pretty penny for the Grimorum, but that was years after they came to the modern world. How did they manage all those years? I know from personal experience how hard it is to get employment without a high school diploma, and when you also lack birth certificates, and social security numbers, it should be virtually impossible. Unless, of course the Illuminati were involved, but there's no reason to suspect that they were members in the tenth century, so the society wouldn't have any reason to help them in the twentieth.>>

Same way Xanatos did. They probably had some old Scottish coins on them when they came through time, sold them off for a pretty penny, and then as they adapted to the modern world, made some smart investments. I'm sure they could get fake identification, especially in the 70's. Illegal immigrants do it all the time today.

Greg Bishansky

SPEN - Well, asexuality isn't a sign of evil in my fiction; I just see the kinds of Big Bads I write as interested only in power.

Many scholars think that Queen Mab and Maeve are different versions of the same person, so I don't think Maeve would be needed for the hypothetical new series if Mab is in it.

And, yes, if this hypothetical new fanfic series gets made, I think it would be a good idea to name it something other than "TGS" to avoid confusion. (Not to mention one problem with "TGS" - it was too easily confused with "TGC", the abbreviation for "The Goliath Chronicles".)

I think it understandable that the TGS staff's take on the Quarrymen and Castaway came too close to the "Goliath Chronicles" version; for all our dislike of the third season, it must have been difficult to shake its portrait of them out of our heads. Thank goodness that Greg Weisman provided a few scenes for them in the comic book as an antidote (and one reason why I hope he gets to tell more "Gargoyles" stories someday is to strengthen that antidote) - especially the scene in "Bad Guys: Redemption" where Castaway's doing a television commercial for the Quarrymen and makes it sound like a Covenant House-type organization. (And to be fair about it, Castaway did start acting close to a raving lunatic in "The Journey", when he'd cornered Goliath and Elisa at the clock tower's ruins.)

Todd Jensen

Wow. I haven't seen this room this busy in years. I must say, I'm enjoying it.

Greg B. : Okay, that pretty much resolves most of my quibbles. About the only thing I'd say is, if you guys do go through with it, I'd suggest using a name other than TGS. Call it a "copyright infringement" issue, if you will. For better or worse, TGS is what we have on this site, and your proposal, while a good one, is not TGS. Besides, it will make discussion far less confusing if there's a separate name for it. Now on to other matters:

"The Quarrymen were the TGC Quarrymen through and through. Just a bunch of one dimensional thugs who turned into another street gang, and a John Castaway who was a frothing at the mouth cartoon character." In "Turncoat", perhaps, but personally, I didn't really have a problem with the way they handled the Quarrymen for the most part. I thought they did a better job of it than TGC, anyway.

"And I have never been able to get past them being brought down by a conflict between two brothers who were not the Canmore brothers." No argument. And I agree about Coldstone & Coldfire, as well.

"Duval was declared to be Sir Lancelot and no one could ever come up with a reason for why he was still alive and leading the Illuminati." Yeah. And that's a real pity, because rightly or wrongly, I *liked* the idea of Lancelot being Duval. It added a nicely personal touch to him being Arthur's adversary. Heck, I even incorporated it into my own "Pendragon" stories (which will never see the light of day). Unfortunately, I can't seem to come up with a reason for him to still be around, either. I was hoping the current staff would eventually get around to telling that story.

"I wouldn't be opposed to bringing back, for example, Sara Jasper" Yay! Excellent idea, there. Sara was one of my favorite characters from season 1, and I was sorry to see her relegated to, as you said "just becoming Matt's girlfriend". Andrea, I could care less about, myself. Nichole could maybe sneak back in: with Travis having his own show, someone needs to do the "at the scene" reporting. And a TGS reboot just wouldn't be complete without my favorite bad fay, Garlon being involved.

"That's how TGS ended up with the Harrisons when the Canmores should have been used." Eh, I did rather like George. I wouldn't mind seeing him come back in some way.

"I suspect they [Mary & Finella] are the owners of WVRN." Hmmm. Interesting. But how did they raise the kind of money needed to buy a TV station? Yes, I'm sure Xanatos had to pay a pretty penny for the Grimorum, but that was years after they came to the modern world. How did they manage all those years? I know from personal experience how hard it is to get employment without a high school diploma, and when you also lack birth certificates, and social security numbers, it should be virtually impossible. Unless, of course the Illuminati were involved, but there's no reason to suspect that they were members in the tenth century, so the society wouldn't have any reason to help them in the twentieth.

"Hey, Spen. You challenged me to see if I could drum up support, and lookie, lookie ;)" Yes, you were right, I was wrong, surprise, surprise. :) Seriously, I'm *thrilled* that this is getting the response it is. After the last couple of years, what with the DVD's not being finished, the comics being cancelled, and the Gatherings ending, I thought that we might be entering "the end times" for this fandom. But this, if you guys and gals can get this off the ground, you could seriously give this fandom a big shot in the arm. And for that, you have my full support.

"If nothing else, it's generating discussion in here." Heck yeah. And now I'm going to fully take credit for jumpstarting the room, even though I had almost nothing to do with it. Why? Because I'm arrogant, and I like to give myself an excuse to pat myself on the back, that's why. :P

Todd : Welcome back! It's great to see you back in here. "I'd do without Madoc altogether if TGS did have such a reboot" Well, I'm kinda torn on that one. On the one hand, I *loved* the whole concept of him being Merlin's father. Like you, that was an aspect of the whole legend that quite intrigued me, but was never fully explored to my satisfaction. And I thought he made perfect sense as a "Pendragon" villain. On the "Gargoyles" end, he was good in his 'Maddox' faze, but was overused later. So part of me wants to see him in this; on the other hand, Greg B.'s suggestion about Merlin and Morgana being siblings also sounds quite *delightful*. This is an excellent twist to the normal story, and one I'd really like to see. So in the end, I can't decide what I want to see.

One way or the other, Maeve would have to be left behind. I can't really see her taking orders from Mab.

So asexuality is usually a sign of evil in your stories? Huh. I guess that makes me a bad guy then. I'll take it. :)

Harvester, Taina : Welcome back! Please stick around. The old place could use a little madness.

Lynati : "it would be nice if we could get people to come write the remaining five seasons" That it would. Personally, I'd like to see both of these projects. Greg and his group sound like they've got some great ideas, but you guys have a more proven track record, and plenty of interesting stories to tell. I really hope someone comes on board and helps to get the project to a fitting completion. I'd offer to help, but my writing skills are absolutely atrocious. They'd make "Harry Potter meets the Gargoyles" sound like Shakespeare (no wait, better than Shakespeare! *Almost* as good as XENOGEARS!). But anyway, about the only way I can contribute to either project is by writing horribly late reviews that don't make a lick of sense.

*looks up* Wow. I've been typing here for six hours. If only you guys knew just how much effort it takes to sound this stupid... anyway, good night all. Keep the posts coming! If we keep going like this the room might actually get *gasp* wiped this year!

Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

While a reboot would be interesting, it would be nice if we could get people to come write the remaining five seasons (spread across the spinoffs) that we had mostly planned out and partially written before the staff...evaporated.

Anyone who is serious about seeing the original version TGS continue, feel free to email me. We have a framework, but plans can be changed if better twists are suggested. If a staff gets together to do a separate reboot, please post links to the resulting stories here; it would be nice to see this room discussing *something* again.

Lynati - [Lynati_1@hotmail.com]

*Smirk*
Chip Coffin - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]

CHIP> Don't apologize. I never do. ;)
Greg Bishansky

Greg> Apologies, didn't mean to jump the gun, but yes...there is support...}};-D
Chip Coffin - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]

Hey, Spen. You challenged me to see if I could drum up support, and lookie, lookie. ;)
Greg Bishansky

First of all, I didn't offer anyone a spot on anything, because nothing exists yet. Don't want anyone to get the wrong impression.

That being said, if this does happen, I think we've got some talented people who are eager to help, and I would like to see what any current TGS staff members would think, since they're also talented people.

Greg Bishansky

This is my first time posting here, and though it's a little intimidating, Greg B also offered me a spot on the potential TGS reboot staff, and I am willing and eager to be a part of it.

I've got some ideas, and I've been loving what's been going on at formspring. If you guys want me, I'm all in.

Chip Coffin - [Sir_Griff723@yahoo.com]

Greg B just offered me a spot on the staff. Fortunately for the rest of you I already have a job and I'm lazy as Hell. ;)

But a TGS reboot is something that does excite me a lot. I think the stuff going on at formspring proves there's a real hunger for this sort of thing, plus potential fanfic writers with some real great ideas and a strong grasp of the characters.

I think the old TGS for all of it's flaws provides a valuable source of insight. The new staff can look back on it, see what worked, what didn't.

Algernon

Concerning the TGS reboot: I see no reason why it wouldn't be a good idea. TGS had some well-written stories, but at the end of the day, there was a lot of stuff that still felt like fanfiction, and had a lot of the biases of fanfiction. Just about all of them have already been named, so I won't get into any more.

But I just wanted to say that a TGS reboot would have my support. If this idea does move forward, I don't know how much I'd be able to help at the moment, since my current commute is a real pain in the ass. But I'd be willing to help even in a slight capacity like beta testing.

Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]

And from the evidence, alas, Greg's not likely to be able to do a "Gargoyles" launch in the near future. Disney didn't answer BOOM!'s request for a "Gargoyles" comic and seems to be dissolving their partnership, and Marvel doesn't appear to be interested.
Todd Jensen

Wow, when was the last time I posted here?

Anyway, I just wanted to add my two cents about the TGS reboot. I think it's a great idea. We have the comics, we have Ask Greg, we have GargWiki... and Greg has made it very clear that he's not going to spoil us anymore. We have everything we need for a TGS reboot. And who knows? TGS united the fandom once. Maybe a reboot will do it again.

So, Greg B., if you need a writer, an artist, ideas, anything... You name it. I'm with you on this!

D. Taina

SPEN> <<Do you really think you could drum up more people by restarting at the beginning? I don't.>>

Actually, having had the hypothetical discussion with a few people, yes, not only do I think I could, I think I did. So far, in addition to me, four others. I'm confident we could get some more. That's if it gets done at all. That would depend on a few things, of course.

Greg Bishansky

TODD> Yeah, I could see it being done under duress. But then, while she hates Arthur, she might be more Merlin's enemy in the Master Plan.

Especially if my theory about her being the daughter of Oberon and Titania holds true, and she was the changeling switched. That would make her Merlin's biological half-sister.

Greg Bishansky

I wonder whether Morgana might (in Greg's MasterPlan) still hate Arthur by modern times. We know (though it's canon-in-training) that she was one of the three women who took him away to Avalon for healing, something she probably wouldn't have done if she was still his enemy (of course, she might have done it under duress).
Todd Jensen

TODD> Those are all very fascinating ideas. Especially about Arthur's crowning.

As for Morgana, well, I'm certain she would have been an antagonist in "Pendragon" anyway. Actually, I wonder if she's Illuminati.

Greg Bishansky

Mary and Finella owning WVRN? I hadn't thought of that before, but it sounds intriguing. (Especially since, until the Phoenix brought them and Brooklyn to the 1970's, they wouldn't even have imagined the existence of something like television. And they were brought into the modern world all of a sudden, like Goliath and his clan or King Arthur, rather than reaching it one day at a time like Demona and Macbeth. At least they had twenty years to adjust to the modern world by the time that Goliath and the other gargoyles awakened.)

As I said before, I don't think I'd want to join another "Gargoyles" fanfiction project if it came out - even if I felt certain that Greg Weisman would never get to do any more "Gargoyles" stories - but I sometimes think about how I'd do another "Pendragon" project if one was made.

1. The flashbacks would revolve far more around how Arthur and his associates - especially those who'd survived to modern times - fitted in with the Gargoyles Universe than around retellings of the familiar legend; I think that was the big mistake of "TGS: Pendragon". I'd have those focus on Arthur's dealings with the gargoyles in Britain during his reign, and also on anything else that would have legacies in the modern world (particularly the Illuminati, which go back to Percival/Peredur - and in a sense, to King Pelles, since he was the Fisher King before Peredur).

2. The Illuminati under Peredur would be the main antagonist, rather than Morgana - especially since I think it would be more original. The part that struck me after reading the Stone of Destiny story in the comics is that the conflict between Arthur and the Illuminati would likely be more original than the regular "villain tries to kill the hero" which we used with Morgana. Peredur is loyal to Arthur, sees himself as on the same side - but Arthur has awakened two hundred years ahead of schedule, jeopardizing the Illuminati's plans. And now Peredur is presumably out to do some damage control, trying to find some way of undoing the problem caused by Arthur leaving Avalon early - and his solution (whatever it is) might not appeal to Arthur. (Not to mention that Arthur might not be too keen on a lot of things that the Illuminati have done - like supporting the Quarrymen, if he finds out about that part.) That would have the potential for an especially rich conflict.

3. I don't know if I'd still have a rejuvenated Merlin, but I do know I'd drop the "son of the Devil" element if I did another "Pendragon" fanfic project (we know that in Greg's MasterPlan, Merlin and Oberon don't get along well, but I suspect for different reasons. One possibility I considered; if Oberon's fling with Merlin's mother was a one-night stand and he afterwards lost interest in her, leaving her to explain on her own to her family about her pregnancy - and to make matters worse, in Geoffrey of Monmouth, she was a nun at the time and the abbess would not have been pleased with the scandal facing the convent - Merlin could be sore at Oberon for that).

Incidentally, the Stone of Destiny story included one tidbit that I would like to adapt for the flashbacks in such a hypothetical "Pendragon" fanfic series. Arthur appears in a poor light in some of the earliest writings about him, a collection of Saints' Lives (trying to steal things from the saints of those stories, for example, and having to do penance for it); some Arthurian scholars believe that this may reflect a clash between Arthur (if there was a real historical Arthur) and the Church. The usual theory is that Arthur might have been taxing Church lands to pay for his wars with the Saxons, and the Church didn't like that. I had the idea that, in the Gargoyles Universe, if Arthur was openly allied with the gargoyle clans of Britain, some of the churchmen at the time might not have liked that (if they were prejudiced against gargoyles and saw them as demons).

But then I read the "Gargoyles" comic book, where King Pelles is portrayed as crowning Arthur after he pulls the Sword out of the Stone, and that gave me another idea. Arthur is being crowned, not by a conventional churchman (like an archbishop) but by Pelles, a priest and guardian of the Holy Grail, but not a regular member of the Church. In the eyes of the Church, Pelles might have been seen as unorthodox, even heretical (the Holy Grail was never officially recognized as part of Christian doctrine in the Middle Ages, confined entirely to Arthurian romance), and a lot of the bishops and monks might have seen Arthur's title as flawed by receiving the crown from an outsider.

Todd Jensen

It would also be interesting to really get into what happened with Mary and Finella after they came to 1970's America.

I suspect they are the owners of WVRN. Greg once said the name of the station was a clue as to who owned it. I suppose it could be Xanatos, but were that the case, I don't think Travis Marshall would be as bluntly honest when talking to and about Xanatos.

I suppose Demona is another possibility, but I cannot see her bothering to get into the media game, at least prior to the founding of Nightstone Unlimited, but even then, that's more up Thailog's alley... similar to how you know the coffee franchise was his idea and not Demona's.

Yeah, I would definitely love to take another stab at Mary, Finella, Owen, Xanatos, Demona, and Brooklyn's story, if we never get to see Greg's version.

As for when Demona and Xanatos first met, well, looking at the GargWiki timeline, with dates provided by Greg, how does this sound to you?

1989. Owen Burnett enters the employment of Cyberbiotics. By now, Fox has acquired her fox-head tattoo.[101] [102]

1991. Owen leaves Cyberbiotics to work for Xanatos. [103] Halcyon and Anastasia Renard divorce [104].
February 28th. [Withheld].
March 1st. [Withheld].

I am, of course, referring to the two dates that have been withheld.

Greg Bishansky

One addition. In the original story, the tengu just tutored Ushiwaka, but in the hypothetical adaptation of the tale to "TimeDancer", I think that the Japanese gargoyles (and the TimeDancing Brooklyn) would fight alongside him and his clan against the rival clan. It would certainly tie in with the mention in "Bushido" of the Ishimura clan's ancestors fighting side by side with human samurai.
Todd Jensen

TODD> Ooh, I like that. I like it a lot. This sounds like something we would actually see in canon. Brilliant post.

BTW, the name "Sata" is not Japanese. It would be "Seta"... and that is not a real word anyway. The closest translation to English would be "Was."

Greg Bishansky

TODD> That sounds like an interesting idea. I always figured Greg would draw from the history of fuedal Japan for Katana's origin much like he drew from medieval Scottish history to flesh out Demona's backstory.
Algernon

If TGS *was* to get a reboot that would incorporate the elements from "Clan-Building" and "Bad Guys: Redemption", there's one concept I'd like to see in "TimeDancer" for the story where Brooklyn would meet Katana in feudal Japan.

We now know from "Redemption" what I'd suspected after seeing "Bushido", that Japanese gargoyles are the originals of the tengu of Japanese legend. There's a story about the tengu helping a young Japanese nobleman named Ushiwaka, whose clan had been overthrown by a rival clan and who had been forced into exile to a remote monastery. Ushiwaka, longing to restore his clan to its original fortunes, sought out the tengu and learned Bushido from them, then defeated the rival clan.

I think this would make a good backdrop to Brooklyn's adventures in feudal Japan (in the same way that the Battle of Rathveramoen formed the backdrop to Brooklyn's first TimeDancer adventure).

Todd Jensen

GREG> My only real gripe with Madoc is how he and the Unseelie seemed to become the default big bads of the TGS-verse almost overnight, pushing canon villains like Demona, Thailog and the Illuminati out of the spotlight.

Again, not that there's anything inherently wrong with the Unseelie as Gargoyles villains (One could easily slot them into the Weisman canon as Mab loyalists), but they need to be balanced out with established villains.

Algernon

BISHANSKY - Thanks. I do have a malevolent faerie king in my Arthurian tales, though he differs from Madoc in a few ways. I can't say too much about him yet (I don't want to spoil anyone here when the books get published), but a few differences between my "faerie king" and Madoc:

1. The faerie king of my story is the ruler over the faerie world, rather than an exile (in fact, the exiled faerie-folk are often friendly to the protagonists).

2. He's not related to Merlin (the protagonist).

3. He's coldly asexual, in contrast to Madoc lusting after Titania. (Since my "big bads" in my own fiction writing are generally that way, I'm amazed still that I came up with that character trait for Madoc. Maybe his being Merlin's father - which implied that he'd had sex at least once - had something to do with it.)

I've noticed a few eerie (to use Algernon's word) correspondences and echoes between the revelations of the "Gargoyles" comic book and TGS, incidentally. Most of the similarities came from the staff's knowledge of Greg's MasterPlan, of course (such as "TimeDancer"), but a few things went beyond that:

1. Merlin was responsible for the Stone of Destiny being brought to London to be the Stone in the "Sword in the Stone".

I'd hypothesized that to reconcile the Stone of Destiny's traditional history with the mention in "Pendragon" that Arthur had drawn Excalibur from it at the beginning of his reign - and it was certainly a natural assumption. The comic book revealed that I was partly right - but that Merlin was partnered with King Pelles, which I hadn't expected. (The details of when Merlin borrowed the Stone were also different; Greg Weisman had him borrow it from Prince Fergus on his way to Scotland to found Dalriada, while I had Merlin borrow the Stone while it was still in Ireland.)

2. The most prominent member of the London clan's youngest generation.

In both cases, a female gargoyle whose name begins with "Lu". TGS named her Lucy (after the Lucy of "The Chronicles of Narnia") and gave her a lioness template; Greg Weisman named her Lunette and gave her a unicorn template. (The name "Lunette" intrigues me, tying in with a suspicion I've had about gargoyle adventures during King Arthur's reign, but that's for another post.)

3. Constantine's villainy.

This one didn't make it to public TGS, but when the staff was brainstorming Brooklyn's early Timedancing adventures, somebody wanted a scene where Constantine would put to death a soldier who'd failed to capture Mary and Finella. This was rejected (largely because executing your own men for failure seemed too cliched and foolish - you'd soon find it difficult to attract new men in service or keep the old ones), but I thought it paralleled Constantine, in the comic book, executing the Grim's messenger - in defiance of medieval etiquette (even Gillecomgain's father looks uneasy about it).

(For that matter, I suggested Brooklyn visiting Castle Wyvern and encountering his own stone self - an idea which the staff also rejected, but which showed up in the comic book when Brooklyn visited Castle Wyvern with Mary and Finella.)

Speaking of "TimeDancer", I can't help thinking that Greg's notion of how Brooklyn gets sent from one century to the next - not through a haywire Phoenix Gate after all, but through the Phoenix that rises roaring from the Gate's remains - would have made life a lot easier for the "TGS: Timedancer" staff if we'd known about it!

Todd Jensen

TODD> I'll agree that Madoc is a great villain, but maybe he's just not a great "Gargoyles" villain. Todd, you've said you're working on an Arthurian novel, you could always cannibalize the character and use him in a new creation like that, if you haven't already.

I'll freely admit to taking two TGS characters I created, and re-imagining them for a screenplay of mine. Granted there are now no longer any fantasy elements, so they are both very human characters. The both of them never met in TGS. One (in my mind, TGS never got that far) died long before the other was born, so they never met and would never meet. Of course, in my screenplay, these two characters are now related.

Of course, I find they work better in the new setting. They are not the same characters their TGS counterparts would have been. The best analogy I can make is Dakota to Demona.

Greg Bishansky

Guess I'll settle for Fang.

TODD> I don't think Madoc was that bad a character. As I understand it, the character was created before Greg had revealed the connection between Oberon and Merlin or the existence of Mab. In fact, given that Madoc was baiscally Oberon's evil twin, your guess was as to Merlin's parentage was prett eeriy. And the whole Merlin vs. his demonic father thing is definetly a dynamic I'd like to see someone explor outside the context of the Gargoyles Universe.

Algernon

Haven't visited this room in ages, but Bishansky told me about the discussion, and I thought I'd comment.

I'll admit that I don't think I'd volunteer for another TGS-type project; after reading "Clan-Building" and comparing it to TGS, I've decided I'd rather let Greg Weisman tell "Gargoyles" stories than try continuing his unfinished tales. I hope I'm not offending any of my former fellow staff-members (I know this isn't going to offend Bishansky), but I think that a lot of Greg's ideas as revealed in "Clan-Building" worked better.

Bishansky mentioned Duval's identity, and I'll agree that I always found the notion of Duval being Lancelot difficult to handle (Lancelot's death too firmly documented, and what motive did he have for engaging in running a scheming secret society?). Percival running the Illuminati from Carbonek on the other hand - that I found convincing. Percival had a ready-made explanation for his being still alive fifteen centuries later (kept alive by the Holy Grail) and a purpose for running the Illuminati (he knows that something bad is going to happen that Arthur's supposed to come back for - though he probably doesn't know that it's the Space-Spawn invasion of 2198 - and wants to prepare for Arthur's return). In fact, we only gave Lancelot the Duval role, I recall, because somebody vaguely remembered Greg Weisman saying that (probably a false memory - the person who said that even sounded uncertain).

I'd do without Madoc altogether if TGS did have such a reboot - at least, from the perspective of the guy who suggested the character. His real purpose in TGS was that I thought that the concept in medieval romance of Merlin being the Devil's son, begotten to serve as the Devil's instrument in corrupting the world, but rejecting that role, had a lot of potential that the romancers never did anything with (or modern-day writers either - with the exception of the NBC mini-series in the late 90's that gave Queen Mab the Devil's role). But we know now that, in Greg Weisman's Master Plan, Oberon is Merlin's father, and while Oberon has his faults, he seems more like a well-intentioned but "out of touch" ruler who can't imagine things from the perspective of the people he's dealing with than a full-scale tyrant. So the concept of Merlin as rejecting his father's malevolent designs wouldn't work there. Everything else that Madoc did in TGS, if necessary to the story, could be simply transferred to other characters, ranging from Thailog to Queen Mab. (I don't know if I'd still go for the rejuvenated Merlin, though the idea does appeal to me.)

Todd Jensen

*Mumbles to himself* What no Coldsteel avatar?

Oh hey there guys,

I know I don't usualy hang out here but Bishansky called me in for back him up, he's kind of a wuss like that. ;)

Admittedly I never got that much into TGS, I only made it about halfway through the second "season" before losing interest. So while I'm probably not that qualified to comment, I'll throw my two cent out there.

I do think there's a lot of merit in what Greg B is saying. With the SLG books now firmly in canon, TGS looks more like some strange alternate universe then an actual continuation of Greg's master plan.

Algernon

SPEN> First of all, I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes. It's just a discussion. Maybe a proposal, maybe not. Depends on if there is interest. If not, no big deal. If there is, cool.

See, the old stories would still be there. They'd be archived on the site, so they'd be there. It would be a slap in the face if they got deleted from the site, that I agree.

But, I am looking this along the lines of, old TGS is the Tim Burton/Joel Schumacher Batman series. New TGS would be the Chris Nolan Batman series. Okay, that's just an analogy, but I think it's a decent one. A lot of people worked hard on the old movies. Was it a slap in the face to come in and have Chris Nolan reboot it? Of course not. Was it cheap? Hell no. Was it better? I damn well think so.

But, before I left TGS, I was told that I didn't care. I was outraged at first, but honestly, the person who said that was right. The TGS Universe was not a universe I wanted to play in any longer. A lot of the stories I had in the works at the time felt more like damage control than anything else. I wanted to rectify what I perceived as missteps. And once I realized that, well, what was the point?

Honestly, TGS took a lot of wrong turns. Hell, as I mentioned before, they stopped being gargoyles and became humans with wings. Their entire culture was stripped away from them and pretty early on. Human weddings for them. Nuclear families. Well, I already went there.

I've already mentioned how TGS lost the main villain of the franchise too. With a reboot, Demona could be handled correctly. And believe me when I say I have ideas for her from 1997 all the way to 2199 and beyond.

And I missed scheming, Machiavellian Xanatos. The gargoyles are living with their enemy. And that never really got explored in TGS. He was TGC's Mr. Sappy Good Guy.

The Quarrymen were the TGC Quarrymen through and through. Just a bunch of one dimensional thugs who turned into another street gang, and a John Castaway who was a frothing at the mouth cartoon character. Totally not what they were meant to be. And I have never been able to get past them being brought down by a conflict between two brothers who were not the Canmore brothers.

Not to mention things like TGS being unable to keep even its own rules and continuity straight. Okay, so in one story it is said that Children of Oberon cannot create life with their magic... and then in another story, Titania magically creates all new flesh and blood bodies for Coldstone and Coldfire out of thin air? Never mind how that cheapens their original "deaths" and the entire Wyvern Massacre with it.

And when did the Space-Spawn... I'm sorry, "Nemesis Incursion" take place? One story says 2158 but that didn't end up happening in the TGS timeline.

Duval was declared to be Sir Lancelot and no one could ever come up with a reason for why he was still alive and leading the Illuminati. It never happened. You'd think such a thing would be important.

There are other examples, I know. But it's been many years since I read these.

And I'm not saying not all of the new material is salvageable. You could take a look at TGS characters, hold them under a microscope, see which ones could fit in there and which ones couldn't, and re-imagine them for the new universe.

In season four, Demona and Thailog were going to go to war over Nightstone Unlimited. Considering the current status quo of Nightstone in the comics, that story can still be done, if put through the prism of the new situation.

But look at the fascinating new characters that could be played with. Shari for one, who is a lot of fun. Peredur fab Ragnal, Duval, Coco, Amp, Thug, Benny, Erin, Falstaff and his gang, the Director... just to name a few. Oh, and definitely Katana, Gnash, and Fu-Dog. Plus the eventual hatching of Egwardo into Tachi. Not to mention Queen Mab and other characters Greg has hinted at.

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing back, for example, Sara Jasper, Garlon, Apep, or even Andrea Calhoun. Although put them through the prism of the new universe and re-imagine them. Of course, Sara would have to do more and contribute more other than just becoming Matt's girlfriend, did she ever do anything after that? Andrea Calhoun would likely not be befriending Demona this time, but there are other things to do with her, without compromising Demona's character. Make Garlon a Mab loyalist. Apep, well, you'd have to define what dragons are and aren't this time. Even Madoc is still usable, just make him the son that was loyal to Mab, or something.

Of course, I think it would be best to use a canon character in a role before resorting to new characters. That's how TGS ended up with the Harrisons when the Canmores should have been used. Again, put it all under a microscope.

Overall, if we this was done, I think we would end up with a series far truer to the spirit of the canon.

Hey, here's a story. Remember in "Bad Guys" when Sevarius was going to mutate Hunter with gargoyle DNA? Really explore that. You know how some people want to turn Elisa into a gargoyle permanently in a misguided attempt to make her relationship with Goliath "easier." Use this to show that Elisa would never change, that being a human is fundamental to who she is.

And, something else, I think as a new system instead of these big huge seasons which take forever to come together, just do short, six "episode" story arcs at once. Like "Clan Building." You do your arc, but have an overall plan for your next few arcs, with a tiers and tent pole system, so you have a good idea of where you're going, but can explore and discover things along the way. It would also be a good way to get more spin-offs out if they were inclined.

I'm not saying the TGS Staff, if there is still a TGS Staff, has to do this at all. Just discussing it, and if there is interest, maybe making it a proposal. But, if not, no big deal.

If nothing else, it's generating discussion in here.

Greg Bishansky

I'm not entirely certain I have the right to post this. This is a staff matter, after all, and I have never been on staff. However, I am feeling the need to speak about this, so I shall give my (rather worthless) two cents.

Greg B. : I don't really like the idea of a complete re-boot. I have a number of reasons for this. One, we seem to have plenty of trouble having enough staff for the series as is. Do you really think you could drum up more people by restarting at the beginning? I don't.

Secondly, if I were a current staff member, and all of a sudden the project head were to say "okay, we're ditching everything you guys have been working on for season 4 for the last eight years, and starting from scratch." I'd scream.

Thirdly, I am a firm believer in "whatever happened, happened". What's done is done. Yes, some things might have been done better (heck, I agree with all but one of your points), but when all's said and done, it's what was written, therefore it's what we're stuck with. The whole idea of a re-boot just sounds cheap to me.

Finally, and most importantly to me, a *lot* of people put in a lot of hard work to get us to where we are now. And certain gripes aside, what we got was good. Was it as good as Greg's comics? Of course not. Was it the best fanfiction ever written? Well, some stories came pretty close, but ultimatly, no. Was it better than TGC? Hell yes. Was it of a consistantly good quality? In my opinion, yes. So to bring this rambling note to it's point, deciding to throw out everything that was written just strikes me as a huge slap in the face to every single person who worked on this project. Now, since you're one of those people, it's pretty obvious that you don't agree with me. And that's fine. But I felt like I should speak up on behalf of the other side, seeing as how I'm the idiot who brought this all up in the first place.

Incidentally, you're totally right about the PIT. PIT crews are for NASCAR, not Gargoyles.

Dear gods, am I really still up this late? Must be going now. Sorry if I stuck my foot in my mouth too much there.

Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

Yeah, I realize a lot of people will disagree with that last post of mine. But it's a thought I've had a few times over the last year.

Although, a TGS reboot would avoid one of the larger TGS missteps, by not turning the gargoyles into humans with wings... nuclear families, etc.

;)

Greg Bishansky

Honestly, if there were to be more TGS, at this point I'd say reboot the entire thing and start over from where both the "Gargoyles" and "Bad Guys" comics left off.

It would solve a lot of the problems like the contradictions that TGS had within it's own continuity.

It would also fix characters who were taken in directions that didn't fit their characters, like Demona's two hundred years early reformation. Or Xanatos who was based on his TGC incarnation more than his canon incarnation.

PIT was a TGC invention anyway and really shouldn't have been in this.

Toss out Madoc, bring in Queen Mab.

We also now would have a truly defined Illuminati Society to play with. We've seen the leadership, we know how their ranking works. They are less nebulous now.

What is Thailog up to with all that gargoyle DNA he stole?

Who are the Redemption Squad working for?

And all the original characters who were someone's pet character before their creator left TGS and were left in limbo would be taken care of. As for original TGS characters, you could examine which ones would fit well in the new continuity and re-imagine them for it. You could look at what worked and what didn't, and go from there.

Not to mention look at the wealth of canon-in-training we've already got. There are years and years worth of story material there.

Hey, everything else is getting a reboot, why not TGS?

Just a thought.

Greg Bishansky

Well, today is (or rather was) the 13th anniversary of the creation of this room. This seems like as good a time as any to say this.

I don't like doing this. I *really* don't like doing this. Heaven knows, I've been backing the staff 100% when they've said that season 4 is coming. I've answered this question on the staff's behalf in the past. I've ignored Greg B. and Robby, and anyone else who's said "it's never coming out". And I can't stand people who whine out the question "when is the next episode coming out?" However, it's been well over two years since anyone has said *anything* about any work on the next season being done. And speaking for myself, I like to hear little notes every now and then, just to allay (sp?) doubts. So my question, and I hope it's not too annoying, is "What is the current status of TGS? Have we decided that it will officially not come out? Is any progress being made?" Again, I'm very sorry to whoever answers this (probably Lynati) for being such a pest, but I gotta' know. I'm sure I'm not the only person who's been wondering.

Dang, this is the first post I've made that was long enough to justify a picture in two years.

Spen
"The only way to tell how far you should go with something is to go too far, then look back to see where you should have stopped."

I have a really old computer. Highest version of IE it can handle is IE4. That's probably the problem.
Spen

Thank you for answering my question. I have no problems with this site. Maybe you have a virus on your pc or the page works at my pc because of the ie9 (Internet Explorer 9). But better you wait for another answer because I don´t know much about computers.
Anonymous

You'd have to ask Guandalug. And he hasn't been seen in years.

By the way, I haven't been able to access Station 8 in over a year. Every time I go to the site, my computer crashes. Is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me?

Spen

I have a question. The European Mirror Page doesn´t work. Do anybody know, when they will come back?
Anonymous

Fistandantilus> It's coming back online, and changing servers. You should post in the Station Eight Comment Room to keep up with that, this place is largely dead.
Anonymous

Errrr... It is me or has the gargwiki (the dracandros based one) gone offline?
Fistandantilus
Die, you fool!

In this reality tv show "The Trickster", I heard they will blur the images of the contestants and change their voices because some of the assignments will be . . . let's just say more creative.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

I hear there's a new reality tv show on WVRN. It's called "The Trickster" or have I got the name wrong of that new show? ;-)
dph_of_rules
whatever happened to simplicity?

We keep going, walk steady and hope our bellybuttons don't fall out.
Edit Death

Ok, I want to know who authorized importing California eathquakes into Central Arkansas especially within 20 miles of my house. Yes, I've been experiencing earthquakes here. How do you guys who live in those areas deal with the everyday reality of possible earthquakes? I've experienced 4.7 over here.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

gxb - Keith David's name was on the tip of my tongue when I typed that.

Wow, I thought my last post would gather more posts than that.

dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

GregX> Maybe in DPH's world, Gargoyles are real and we're the show :)
Thomas Forsyth - [tmlforsyth at gmail dot com]

DPH> That actor has a name, and it is Keith David.
Greg Bishansky

So what does everybody think about Goliath's character in "The Cape"?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happenned to simplicity?

This is a record. Three years all on one board post.

Lynati> Thank you. I am halfway to my Masters. Too bad there is a hiring freeze in NYC for teachers.

Thomas Forsyth - [tmlforsyth at gmail dot com]

Fire Storm: Congrats to you both!

GB: Glad you made it home. I hope school is going well.

Lynati

Nice to see people around. Hey, is this one of the 1st 10 posts of the new years here?
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

I live.

LM's expecting (May).

Life is good :)

Fire Storm

Greetings to all over the last few years. I am out of the Army, after spending 15 months in Iraq, and am in grad school to become a teacher. I've been living in Northeast Queens for almost two years, so I've had quite a journey. I'm also 60% disabled.

Times have changed in what will soon be the 13th year of TGS CR.

Thomas Forsyth - [tmlforsyth at gmail dot com]

Roll Call. Sound Off.
Staringer - [x]

A slightly belated Merry Christmas to all!
Spen

MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Lynati

Lunar eclipse tonight clouds willing
Staringer

*wave^s*

Merry christmas to all.

Old Time Reader

Cast pages are fixed now. Thank you for pointing that out! : )
Lynati

Did the link to "miscellaneous" ever work? Anybody here remember?
Lynati

We're looking into it...

Also, remind me to write Guan and have him update the email listed on this CR add comment page to the one we actually *use* since TGS doesn't have code control over its CR.

Lynati

I remember when Josh "Imzadi" used to fight for the NIEN space on the top ten.

Those were the Good Times.

Happy Holidays. I miss you guys.

I'd wipe the room for the New Year, if I still had the password.

<3

Lurkingfish - [emlee at lurkingfish dot com]

Oh yea I wonder what a certain hiding animal that lives underwater thinks of the wikileaks story.
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

Spen - your best bet for getting that problem solved is contacting Lynati. I don't get regular 'net access anymore. I do good to visit once or twice a week for a few hours total.
dph of rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

The cast page seems to be the only broken one, however, there is no link to the miscellaneous pictures.
Spen

The pictures in the cast pages are broken; I haven't checked the rest. Any chances they'll be reuploaded?
clyde

DPH : "12 hours working straight will do that to a person." I concour. I've done entirely too many of those this year. (Including one month straight) And with my 25 mile commute, I haven't got much of an alternative to driving home. Usually I just sing as loudly as a can to keep myself awake.
Spen

I had around 370 voters yesterday in my voting precient. Last night, on my way home after delivering election materials back to the courthouse, I released I shouldn't be driving - my reaction time was sucky and was extremely mentally exhausted. 12 hours working straight will do that to a person.

That's my irrelevant conversation to add to this cr.

dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?

Happy Halloween to all
Boadicea

There were no new conversations, so nobody bothered checking in here, so there were no new conversations...vicious cycle, really.
Lynati - [Lynati_1 at hotmail dot com]

Happy Gargoyles day, everynone!

Over a month since the last post. 34 posts total for this year. Even for us, that's pathetic.

Spen

Pretty much all of gargs-fans.org (which the comment room here is *not* hosted on) was down for a couple days, I'm assuming for server maintenance.

Don't worry, TGS has other back-ups besides just the European mirror site.

Spen: Thanks! It's nice to be remembered.

Lynati - [Lynati_1 at hotmail dot com]

Hi everyone! I'm another long-time fan who grew up with the series and recently rediscovered the fandom. I love the TGF website, mostly for the fanfics and of course the Saga. Unfortunately, I've noticed that as of a couple of days ago the website wouldn't load when I tried to get on it. I've checked my internet connection, and it's not that. Is the site down for maintenance or something? I've tried emailing the site manager but I just read a post that they haven't been 'seen' in awhile. Does anyone know what's up? I'm really hoping to see the site back up because there were fanfics there I really wanted to finish reading and a couple of favorites I don't want to see vanish. At least the European mirror site for the Saga is intact so I can content myself with that for the time being.

~Kittyhawke~

Kittyhawke - [direwolfstorm at aim dot com]

Happy birthday, Lynati!
Spen

Oh, and to be helpful, post it on fanfiction.net and be done with it.

And before anyone else says I'm being mean: Greg Weisman already responded to this guy with:

"You can try to ask Disney.

But on principal, I'm not going to encourage you. Personally, I'd prefer you write something based on your own creation and publish that... as opposed to piggy-backing on something of mine."

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

Lorranon of Oberon> Unless your name is Greg Weisman, and I know it's not, I am uninterested in you publishing your fanfiction.
Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

I need help from all the Gargoyle fans out there. Everyone wants the return of Gargoyles and in some ways, weLve gotten our wish. We have season one and half of season two on dvd. Comics are coming out and we're pressuring disney to make a movie about OUR gargoyles. I have written a novel, the first in a planned series of 12, starting from the day after the clan saves a train full of people, the last episode. I need help getting permission to get it published. I need support
Lorranon of Oberon - [dragonman2184 at yahoo dot com]
LoO

I have started a facebook group about this, ahem "movie." If you have a facebook, please join. Please encourage your friends to join.

Spread the word!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=142182852459700&v=wall

If you don't have a facebook, it's easy enough to get one. We need as many people as we can get.

But, more than that, we need to MAKE NOISE!

This goes beyond spreading the word about the DVD's or the comics, the entire property might be at stake here.

So, make noise, and don't shut up.

Greg Bishansky - [<----- Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!]
Make a real "Gargoyles" movie, Disney!

Yeah, I'm still here. You know that the room has died when I didn't even point out that June first was the CR's twelfth birthday.
Spen

June 21 7:28 ET midsummer begins. Its been 6 weeks is anybody alive?
Staringer

Wow! This was my favorite cartoon when I was younger and through a random search for something completely unrelated I found this site. This is amazing!! I can't wait to read the series posted here! And I will definitely have to look up the comics. Thanks for creating this site and for keeping it going for 10+ years!!
Michelle - [chelle_belle81 at hotmail dot com]

I will have to look for those!! Thanks for welcoming me! :) I am glad that I know other people who love this show as much as I do! :)
Samantha Wood
Sammie

Samantha : Hello, and welcome to the room! Always nice to get some new faces around here. Incidentally, have you read the new (ish) Gargoyles comics? They were written by the series creator, and were, in my opinion, an excellent continuation.
Spen

So, I totally love this show, I miss it terribly and I am so glad I found this site!
Thank you SOOO MUCH! I <3 you! The only time I ever got to watch it was when I go to Disney World and watch Toon Disney in the morning. So thank you again and I am going to be watching this like 24/7 now! <3

Samantha Wood - [MrsINK13 at aol dot com]
Samantha Wood

Has anybody seen/heard from Guandalug la'Fay in the past 2 years? It's a shame that the gfw has been abandoned, but I wonder what it's purpose is now that we have the gargwiki.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online game(Warcraft, EVE, probably others)
Fire Storm

DPH : Um, what the heck is an MMO?
Spen

what's really bad is that some of the volunteers in charge would screw over the vets of that mmo in a heartbeat.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

One in beta, Firestorm. They've had money hackers already, resulting in ridiculous inflation. The warnings about MMOs are too true.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

Oh? What MMO?
Fire Storm

I haven't forgotten. But I found myself in an MMO.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity

Ironwolf : Whoa, welcome back! Even *I* can't remember when you last posted; and since I'm the one with photographic memory, that's saying something! Good to see ya' back, anyway.

Oh yeah, if he's still lurking here, happy birthday, DPH!

Spen

been 10 years nice to know that the site is still here.
ironwolf - [ironwolf16 at yahoo dot com]

Well, it's now February 2, groundhog's day and only seven people have waved. Maybe the ground hog will if he see's his shadow.
Staringer

I'm posting primarily because the current topic gives me a chance to use the following signature.
Harvester of Eyes
"I've been dead before." -Spock ("Star Trek VI")

Na, I died last week. Sad tale too.
Fire Storm

Well, it's taken 13 days for 5 people to actually wave at us and say HI!.

Green Baron it's nice to see you're doing OK.

Anyone else still alive???

Staringer

Hello all. I just came by and saw two years of posting since the last wipe. Not much is going on with me,other than I start classes at the end of this month, and am settling in NYC nicely. It is hard to imagine that I spent the majority of the last decade in the Army. I'm out now and ready to use the new post 9-11 GI Bill, but I'm on disability so I didn't leave the Army entirely in one piece, but Uncle Sam is looking out for me, thanks to the American Legion.

I hope all is going well with you guys.

Thomas Forsyth - [tmlforsyth at gmail dot com]

I am sorry if my last post was too... [_____]
I just really like Lex and Future Tense, though an excelent episode was a very concerning experience. I don't know about the rest of you but now i can't shake the feeling I'm gonna see Lex portraid as something he simply isn't and should not be. I'd like to know if anyone agrees btw.

Ado

Okay, here's he thing. i was just reading timedancer and enjoying it a lot but about halfway through the second chapter there was a mention of Lex's fate and how Brooklyn would want to change it and I cannot let this slide. There are many things in the episode Future Tense can stand with in the real thing but not that. Lex is the kindest little garg and I don't think I'm the only one who'd be very unhappy if the events in future tense concerning him are anything more than a scary vision. I realise it is unwise to post on this before finishing the story but I sure hope that bit was designed to scare people and not hint at what comes next. Cyber-Lex is a fantasy, he will never be evil.
Ado

three!
Dezi

Why do I have the feeling that this top ten race will last till June?
Spen

New Year's Roll Call!!!

Spen is Number One.

Staringer

First for the year! Happy New Year, everyone! (How many times will I say that in this CR week?)
Spen

Boy, not a creature has been stirring for several years.

Have a safe and prosperous 2010. Happy New Years!

Taleweaver

Eh, better late than never. Merry Christmas, everyone!
editdeath

Yikes, even *I* forgot to say "merry Christmas" in here. That's sad.
Spen

Merry Christmas, tiny quiet room.
Lynati

Thanks for the info. I enjoyed that interview with Greg.
Jasmine - [suarezjasmine at yahoo dot com]

Hi all. Just wanted to spread the word that The Initiative Show's interview with Greg Weisman is now available.

Look for The Initiative Show podcast on iTunes. The interview with Greg is in Part 2 of the episode "November Shot."

It will also be uploaded soon to http://www.theinitiativeshow.com

Additionally, you can check us out on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?tab=1#/pages/The-Initiative-Podcast/154540820096?ref=sgm

Eric Lindberg - [ericlindberg42 at comcast dot net]

Eric: Awesome, thanks for the post!
Lynati

(Hmm, last post in September. I hope people still stop by here.)

Hi. I'm a longtime Gargoyles fan who's been drawn back to the websites and fandom thanks to SLG's comic series. Have not read much of the work here on TGS yet but I am intrigued.

The main reason I am here though is to spread the word to fellow fans that The Initiative Show, a pop culture podcast that I am involved with, has set up an interview with Greg Weisman for our next episode. Gargoyles, the comics, and The Spectacular Spider-Man will be discussed.

The show can be found at www.theinitiativeshow.com. When a release date for the episode is determined, I will let everyone know. I hope you will check it out.

Eric Lindberg - [ericlindberg42 at comcast dot net]

I've just posted the first of five sample chapters from the book at three blogs and on a Twitter feed. If you want to check it out, find my blogs at the following sites:

http://www.sffworld.com/blogs
http://www.animeotaku.info
http://www.animeforum.com

Thank you.

Desert Coyote - [<-Please buy my book!]
The Gargfic writer formerly known as Coyote the Bando

Aww, thank you Spen! *hugs*
Lynati - [Lynati_1 at hotmail dot com]

Correction, second time. I forgot about the '08 wipe. Still ridiculous, though.
Spen

Happy birthday, Lynati! (Geez, that's the third time I've said that this CR week. Hope we get a wipe next year.)
Spen

Forgive my excitement, I just have to share with everyone, as I feel like I'm starting to arrive as an author. My book's now available through Amazon.com. Go there and search or make life easy on yourself and follow my name linky. :)
Desert Coyote - [<-Please buy my book!]
The Gargfic writer formerly known as Coyote the Bando

ARG ... cut and paste will be the death of me!!!!
Desert Coyote - [<- ON SALE NOW!]
The writer formerly known as Coyote the Bando

Much to my delight, I have approved my novel for publication. It is now on sale at my e-store (see link below)!

If you would rather peruse before you buy, a preview is available at http://tinyurl.com/AGPreview. Here's the blurb:

------

Special offer for Gargoyles message board posters use discount code Q3JQG8JB for 20% off the cover price.
Through the 20th Century, a team of four has been assembled for a Black Ops team unlike any other in history.

The Guardsman : ageless paladin knight.
Cyrus Salem: immortal shrinking wizard.
Kitty Lazarus: woman warrior in a cat's body.
Ariel Vibria: modern dragon with a tortured soul.

Separately and together, these agents will face down an immense evil, with the fate of the world itself possibly in the balance, rising above their differences and individual traumas together to face Sheol, a demonic matriarch hiding within one of the holiest sites in Europe.

Is being the Guardsman worth the sacrifice of childhood Ken Sharpe made to be the paladin?
Will Cyrus continue to shrink throughout history?
What purpose does the Hindu god Durga have for Kitty?
What will happen if the secretive government project that produced Ariel comes to search for their missing experiment?

Do they stand a chance in hell against Sheol?

Find out in the pages of The Advance Guard, on sale now

Through the 20th Century, a team of four has been assembled for a Black Ops team unlike any other in history.

The Guardsman : ageless paladin knight.
Cyrus Salem: immortal shrinking wizard.
Kitty Lazarus: woman warrior in a cat's body.
Ariel Vibria: modern dragon with a tortured soul.

Separately and together, these agents will face down an immense evil, with the fate of the world itself possibly in the balance, rising above their differences and individual traumas together to face Sheol, a demonic matriarch hiding within one of the holiest sites in Europe.

Is being the Guardsman worth the sacrifice of childhood Ken Sharpe made to be the paladin?
Will Cyrus continue to shrink throughout history?
What purpose does the Hindu god Durga have for Kitty?
What will happen if the secretive government project that produced Ariel comes to search for their missing experiment?

Do they stand a chance in hell against Sheol?

Find out in the pages of The Advance Guard, on sale now

Special offer for Gargoyles message board posters use discount code Q3JQG8JB for 20% off the cover price.

Desert Coyote - [<- ON SALE NOW!]
The writer formerly known as Coyote the Bando

Also, when you click on the link, the author's name is pretty visible...
Lynati - [Lynati_1 at hotmail dot com]

Spen: Happy to have piqued your interest. If you liked my fics, you'll like AG (as I call it for short) because it shares some prominent themes, such as family and the cost of great power. There's also one character who is an homage to the Gargoyles character designs.
Desert Coyote
The writer formerly known as Coyote the Bando

Coyote : I had a feeling it was either you or Ravyn. Congrats on getting published! I'll definitly have to check out "Advance Guard" one of these days. After all, it is by one of my top-five favourite fanfic writers.

So what else have you guys been up to the last few years?

Spen

Ahhhh hell, there's no point in concealing it, my wife found me out. Dang, we're too good at picking each other out of an anonymous lineup!!

Yeah, it's me. Yes, the book is mine. Yes, I confess, I am shilling.

Desert Coyote
The writer formerly known as Coyote the Bando

I almost forgot, there's a preview of the novel available. Enjoy.
An anonymous former fandom regular
"Normalcy is so overrated"

Greg B: After looking at your list of "do not touch" directors, might I inquire of your opinion if Neill Blomkamp ("District 9") directed? Myself, I picture a possible similar "cinema verite fantasy-realism" style, only instead of using documentary footage it would include television newscasts exclusively. Would be an interesting take on the subject matter.

Lynati: The author will certainly appreciate your comments.

An anonymous former fandom regular
"Normalcy is so overrated"

There hasn't been enough activity to warrant it. Maybe in Jan of 2010.

And hey, awesome-looking book!

Lynati

As an aside ...

holy schneikes, this CR hasn't been refreshed since January of '08????

An anonymous former fandom regular