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Magus, Katharine, Tom

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gipdac writes...

I’ve always been very interested in the Archmage. I really love his transformation from a kind of one-dimensional villain in “Long Way ‘til Morning” to a character with such an interning as in “Avalon” (and to a lesser extent “Vows”). And I absolutely love the idea of Archmage Plus being a villain in the Timedancers and G: 2198 series.
I also really enjoy the Magus. When he first appeared in “Awakening” I was really mad at him, but when he die at the end of “Avalon”, I was amazed at the huge change that had occurred in my perception of his character. He became such a tragic hero.
Anyways, because of my interest in these characters, some questions have come to mind,
1. When did the Archmage first come to live at Castle Wyvern?
2. Why did the Archmage start to “work” for Malcolm?
3. When did the Magus become Archmage’s apprentice?
4a. What is Archmage’s real name? 4b. What is Magus’ real name?
5. When was the Archmage born?
6. When did the Archmage discover the ruins and megalith in the caverns near Wyvern?
7a. Did Magus know about the magical ruins in the Archmage’s lair? 7b. Did he know about the Archmage’s plans for "ultimate power"?
8. Did Archmage deduce that use of the Gate, the Eye and the Grimorum together would give him the "ultimate power" or did he find the information from an outside source (i.e. another Sorcerer or magic book)?

Greg responds...

1. Well, I suppose it depends how you define "Castle" Wyvern... but the answer is 971.

2. He made a strategic alliance.

3. 982.

4a&b. I don't know or can't remember.

5. 914.

6. That I'm not revealing.

7a. Define "lair"..

7b. I'm not revealing this either.

8. Outside source.

Response recorded on December 01, 2005

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matt writes...

in "Awakening" Xanatos mentions that the Magus wrote the story of the Gargoyles down in the Grimorum, which is how (he claims) he found out about Goliath's Clan and the way to break the spell. my question is, how far does that story go? in "Avalon" we see the Magus writing in the Grimorum before he went off to Avalon and lost the book. did Magus write the story up to the point of reaching Edinburgh or Constantine's takeover or even all the way up the plans to leave for Avalon?
i wonder this because i wonder how much Xanatos knows about what happens to the Clan's eggs. he tells Goliath that the eggs are not in the rookery and we know that that is of course true, but is he hiding information in "Awakening" about the fate of the eggs?

Greg responds...

I assume that since the Magus more-or-less knew or suspected that he couldn't take the book into Avalon, he wouldn't risk divulging the "plan" in its pages -- since he couldn't guarantee that the book wouldn't fall into Constantine's hands.

Response recorded on December 01, 2005

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Todd Jensen writes...

A question about the gargoyles' time living with the humans in Castle Wyvern between 971 and 994. In "Awakening" at the beginning, all the humans living in the castle, except for the Captain of the Guard (and Tom, but he wasn't a regular inhabitant) were, from what we can tell, hostile towards the gargoyles.

Now, since gargoyles and humans had been living side by side for 23 years, I found myself wondering a little about this. I know that prejudice can often take a very long time to overcome, but I still find it a matter of mild concern that after living with gargoyles for 23 years, with ample opportunity during all that time to see what they were really like, the humans would still be so hostile towards them. (Katharine did get conditioned to fear gargoyles due to Prince Malcolm's foolish use of them as bogeymen when she was a child, of course, so her attitude is believable.)

Of course, I suppose that it would require the entire "Dark Ages" series all the way down to the Wyvern Massacre to give a real answer to this question, but I did think that I'd comment on it. (And if after 23 years of sharing their home with the gargoyles, nearly all the humans still disliked them, I can see how it is that Demona is so cynical and pessimistic about peace between the two species. On the other hand, since Katharine and the Magus did abandon their old attitudes after the massacre and even dedicated the rest of their lives to looking after the orphaned eggs, there is hope.)

Greg responds...

There's always hope. I think the prejudice was subtle and on-going, because nothing had ever been done about it.

Most humans in the castle weren't looking to slaughter the Gargoyles or even kick them out. But they took the Gargoyles' defense of the cliffside for granted... enough years had passed that the camaradery of the great battles they shared had been -- not forgotten -- but dampened.

And the leader sets the tone, and for the reasons you listed above, Katharine was not sympathetic to or fond of the Gargoyles. So those Lords looking to curry favor would tend to being dismissive. I also think that the Gargoyles still represented a mental wildcard to the humans. A great force in their midst that they couldn't fully control. It was disturbing. And then there are the archers, who do their jobs well, but who may have had chips on their shoulders because they weren't sufficient to guard the castle... and because their own boss seemed to respect the Gargs more than his own men.

The idea was little things contributing to on-going tension ... and a leader who was part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Response recorded on March 09, 2005

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Rising Moon Starsword Warrior Daiginga writes...

Why couldn't the Magus make a counter spell for the frozen gargoyles?

Greg responds...

The Magus was not great at INVENTING spells. Just at performing them.

Response recorded on July 28, 2004

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Christina (CelebornEstel@aol.com) writes...

I've been a fan of Gargoyles for a while and I was wondering what a few characters were based on. The mythology is put into the sotry so well and fits like a puzzle. Anyway, I was wondering who the Weird Sisters and Megus. The mythology of the story is beautiful and the plot is extraordinary. So, That's my question- What were Megus and The Weird Sisters based on?

Greg responds...

The Weird Sisters were based primarily on the Weird Sisters, from William Shakespeare's play MACBETH. They were also influenced by various triple/lunar goddesses from various mythologies, in particular the Graces, The Furies, the Fates/Norns.

The Magus is more of an "original" creation. He begins, I think, as fairly standard D&D wizard material. But I like to believe that he transcends the stereotype.

Response recorded on June 28, 2004

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matt writes...

in the "Avalon", when Magus is talking to Elisa, there is a flashback of Tom and Katherine playing with the young gargoyles. i was curious if you knew how old the gargoyles were in that flashback. do you have in your timeline what year that was?

Greg responds...

I do not have a fixed year for that brief flashback assigned in my timeline.

Response recorded on June 07, 2004

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Entity writes...

I'd just like to say that the Magus' death is, I think, the strongest moment in GARGOYLES. The Magus is loved by every fan, and it's because of all the humanity you were able to instill in him in about five minutes of screen time. His tragic love for Katherine coupled with his guilt which almost seems biblical by this point in the series, and the enchanting setting of Avalon, all make the Magus into... I don't even know! Just recalling his final moments brings tears to my eyes. That trembling finger. And his reaction to Goliath's thanks is heart-swelling. He simply doesn't comprehend how Goliath could be thankful to him and it's too much. Good job.

Greg responds...

Thanks.

To be fair, we had a bit more than five minutes of screen time with the guy... but I am rather proud of how we turned the corner with him for most (but I doubt for all) of the fans. Turned him from a true jerk to a true hero. That's always fun.

Response recorded on April 14, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

the magus kinda looks like puck,is it weird?

Greg responds...

I can see why you say that, but I also don't think they look THAT much alike.

Is it weird? I dunno. I guess that's subjective.

Response recorded on April 02, 2004

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Blaise writes...

AVALON PART THREE

One thing I forgot to mention in my thoughts on Part Two (and it's still relevant because it was featured in the recap): the Archmage's devouring of the Grimorum. I, too, found that a great image, and a nice way of sidestepping the "no magics" rule. Not to mention I love the little "[gulp] Ah..." the Archmage does.
Anyway, onto the fight.
When the folks at the palace decide to check out the Sleeping King, and Tom prepares to go, the Magus looks at Katharine's worried face and then volunteers to go instead. Yet another something I had to watch several times before I could fully appreciate it.
Angela and Gabriel check out the grotto (is that what it's called?). I like it when Demona jabs the laser rifle in Angela's ribs, and the younger gargoyle's first reaction is to elbow Gabriel and say "Stop it!" It was cool how Goliath temporarily overrode Macbeth and Demona's mind control by "appealing to their better natures," and then how the Archmage so easily reasserted his control. He had become quite a bit more powerful here, afterall. And then, of course, once things turn sour, and one of his enemies tries to take the Eye, the Archmage loses his cool and decides to start attacking NOW. His lines here are pretty neat and chilling ("They're my creatures now," and "...if they are so *eager* to *DIE*!" are ones I rather like, too).
It never ceases to amaze me how the Magus, a 72 year-old scholarly type, is able to make Elisa, a 27 year-old athletic type, ask him to slow down. I like Magus' line about being used to traveling alone, and how Elisa's mention of "the Princess and the Guardian" is contrasted with the Magus calling them "Katharine and Tom." His story was both a surprise and heartbreak to me--I had really thought from AVALON PART ONE that he would "get the girl" as most heroes do. As I said then (three weeks ago), the Magus had never looked quite so heroic. I had disliked him quite a bit in AWAKENING ONE and TWO, yet by the end of his appearance in TWO, his remorse kind of mitigated my disdain for him. In the first part of AVALON I really got to like him--you could see the depth of his feeling for Katharine, and his resolve and cunning with the way he saved the eggs and all. In PART TWO he showed how weak he felt without his magic book, and here...well by this time, the Magus had become a character I really liked and sympathized with.
Perhaps that's one reason that I became pretty much goggle-eyed upon learning that Katharine had fallen in love with Tom and vice versa. Then again, I did (and to some extent still do) suffer from a sort of "agism in male and female relationships." Of course, for that reason, I also applaud the princess and the pauper getting together simply because it now becomes a bit more unique. And I love the baby gargoyles!
BTW, Greg: rest assured that Elisa's lips were corrected in later airings, and on my tape the scene with the baby gargs actually looks more like a night scene (don't ask me how, maybe it's just my tape).
The Hollow Hill sequence was cool! I loved the Magus' spellcasting (now he has to ryhme like an Oberati), though I was of course confused until the Magus explained how he was able to do that. The "leap of faith"...Indy Jones, yeah, but I like how Elisa looked jumping.
And then the pillar lowers with (to me) some guy on it. She walks up to him, and says his name, "Arthur Pendragon..." It was at about that point that my jaw hit the floor and my eyes became as big as the moon. This was something I had not been expecting (due to my unfamiliarity with Arthur's "death") and as such became a huge, and enjoyable surprise to me.
I also like his presentation to the rest of the good guys. Until Elisa mentioned it, I had never realized that Goliath had never truly beaten Demona or Macbeth. I really liked this--it made them seem even more dangerous than before. And of course, King Arthur Pendragon, the legendary hero, reveals that he hasn't the slightest idea "what's going on." A funny moment that shows that, though legendary, Arthur is still a human.
I like how the Archmage looks when he says "I will wait here...for Goliath." An uber-villain look without a doubt.
Arthur's taking command of the situation and showing his strategist side is a nice scene (and he later proves that he is indeed a great warrior as well), and I noticed right away how (thematically) well paired off the adversaries were.
I think I'll follow your lead, Greg, and divide them up:
Arthur and Macbeth: The way Macbeth had spoken of Arthur in LIGHTHOUSE, this battle was only to be expected. I didn't mind Arthur's "manner of magic" as oppossed to "sorcery" (a little variety is alright in my book). I was surprised at Macbeth's sucker-kick when it took down Arthur. *That* part of the cliffhanger--Macbeth's sword at Arthur's throat--really got me (they were all tense, but Mac had the greatest warrior in legend at sword point!). Of course, Arthur still manages to defeat Macbeth (marvelously, I might add) with that oh-so-cool image of his ringed fist heading straight for Macbeth's face (the camera).
Demona vs. half the cast: I guess it says something that Demona needs THAT many people to take her down. One thing I love about this fight is how badly Gabriel's wings get torn up. The poor guy really gets battle damage here. Another moment--the gargoyles on the battlements fire arrows point blank at Demona...and MISS COMPLETELY!! "Not prepared...never honed combat skills" indeed! And then Demona goes after Elisa. I wonder if maybe somewhere in Demona's ensorcelled brain she sees this as a rematch of their previous hand-to-hand in HIGH NOON. Eventually, Katharine gets into the act in a very unexpected way. A bit of a stretch with her firing the gun perhaps, but still kind of fun.
The Magus vs the Sisters: I never caught the full meaning of Luna's "There is no future for you," but somehow I knew that the Magus was going to die in this battle. Something about his character, the tragedy and struggling. It made sense to me, from the moment he said "Leave them to me" about facing the Sisters, that he would die fighting them. His use of the magic is extrodinary, and I liked how the Sisters became outraged by his using Avalon's power. I also love Phoebe's fearful "Where is the Sleeping King?" when the Sisters finally make it into the Hollow Hill. And then the Magus casts his last spell. To be honest, I thought he was "all dead" when his hand went limp and fell backward onto the beir (sp?). I was actually kind of glad that we had a little bit more time with him afterwards.
Goliath and the Archmage (and Angela): This was a big one for me. The Archmage is pretty much the oldest adversary of the Wyvern Clan (with the possible exception of Iago). There is a sort of "epic" quality here with the way the Archmage and Goliath talk to each other (A: "I've waited a millenium for this." G: "You lose again, Archmage"--how many times have superheroes said that last one to their archfoes?). I remember wondering how Goliath was going to get out of this, until Angela showed up. One of my favorite scenes in this ep is when the Archmage freezes the lake, Goliath sinks out of sight as the Archmage laughs, and then the Archmage's eyes go wide as Goliath shoots up from the depths, giving a gurgling roar, and leaps through the ice. Finally, Goliath removes the Eye and the Archmage almost seems like he will continue being a threat. Then he gets incinerated by "magic energy" and dissolves in a cool death scene. Count me as another one who thinks the final line of the Archmage is pretty cool. There is a sort of sense of that "epic" quality coming to an end here. Goliath has defeated what was (as far as we know) the first true arch-villain he had ever encountered. There could be a world of meaning within his "It is over." And then the Archmage's scrying pool, as if to spite them, displays the dying Magus.
The death scene is a good one. In some ways, I find it more moving now than I did then (again, don't ask me why). I like the final exchange with Goliath.
G: "I owe you."
M: "You...but, I cursed your clan."
G: (shaking his head) "You saved my children."
And of course Katharine's grief over the passing of her friend from childhood caps the touching moment. Good voicework from Jeff Bennett and Kath Souci. It took me several viewings to notice it, but I thought the shooting star was a nice touch.
I always wondered why the "good-byes" seemed so strange to me. I suppose individual good-byes would be more realistic, but for a narrative...eh. I kind of got that Arthur would be visiting Manhattan eventually, so the foreshadowing was not wasted.
Goliath should laugh more. ;)
Angela's coming along. A new regular. This was something I had been wondering about for some time--if one of these new gargoyles we had just been introduced to would actually come along for the rest of the show. It made sense that it was Angela, what with all the angst her parentage would bring to light.
When Tom spoke about Avalon sending you where "you need to be," I kind of got a smile as I thought to myself "Oh, you guys aren't going to be getting back home for a while..." and got prepared for a world tour. Perhaps my reading about gargoyles in Guatemala, London, and Japan influenced me here.
One last interesting note. As with the previous two, I showed this one to my mother when it first aired. YEARS LATER, as I was telling her about your original plans for sending the Magus with Arthur, Greg, and your reasons for giving him a "good death" instead, she said, "Well, they also probably had to kill him off because his voice was too expensive." I, confused, looked at her and asked "What do you mean?" She, now looking confused herself, said, "Well, he was voiced by Michael York...wasn't he?" So when you see Jeff Bennett again, you may want to pass onto him that he does a good York!
This was a good ep with a feeling of closure and a sense of something exciting coming just over the horizon. It could have been a season finale, even. Just my thoughts.

Greg responds...

I've never worked with Michael, though he's an acquaintance of my parents, but I know that other shows have used him, and I've never heard that he charges more than the typical going rate. I'd love to work with him some day. But I don't think that Jeff was doing Michael, per se. Jeff "created" the Magus voice back on Awake1. He's just phenominally talented and versatile.

The redemption of characters like the Magus and to a lesser extent the Captain of the Guard is one of the things I'm proudest of in the series. The Magus' story is sad, certainly, but he is so much more ennobled in his death, because of how hard he worked not to wipe out his sins, but to make up for them.

And on a more creative note, it's just fun to take a character who everyone hates, and find a way to turn him into a character who everyone feels for. It's very rewarding.

Response recorded on April 01, 2004

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Vashkoda writes...

Hi Greg. Looking over your G2198 responses, I picked up on something a little confusing.

You say that Samson, Delilah and Zafiro all learn Bushido in Ishimura. Then you say that Nick also goes to Ishimura to join the Order of the Guardian, and is trained in the way of the Gargoyle Warrior. I'm a little confused as to whether both groups are essentially doing the same thing--are the gargoyles *also* part of the Order of the Guardian? And yet you've referred to Nick several times as just "Guardian", as if he were the only one. So if you could please clarify this for me...

1a) Are Delilah, Samson and Zafiro also part of the Order of the Guardian? b) If not, are any gargoyles part of this Order? c) Is Delilah, Samson, and Zafiro's training in Ishimura completely separate from Nick's training? d) If so, were they able to meet in Ishiura, or do they only get introduced to each other later?

2a) I'm assuming that because it's an "Order", there must be more than one member, but because you've referred to him simply as "Guardian" (perhaps as in "the one and only"), *is* Nick the only one? b) If not, as a very rough estimate, how many would you say there are in 2198 before the invasion? ...a handful, dozens, hundreds?

3a) Is Ishimura the only training area of this Order, or is it one of many? b) If Ishimura is the only place the Order trains initiates, why was that particular location chosen?

4a) I admit I haven't done the math, nor am I sure of the life expectancy of a human living on Avalon, but is Thom, the original Guardian, still alive in 2198? b) If he is alive, does he help lead or train those in the Order? c) Is the purpose of the future Guardian(s) the same as the purpose of the first Guardian? (Thom)

Greg responds...

1. There are two "academic" tracks in Ishimura. One for Gargoyles and one for humans, though they have many classes that overlap. Any and all gargoyles are admitted to the program in Ishimura, but the admissions process for Humans is very stiff. I picture lawsuits over the inequity. But the reasoning is that they are teaching skills that in theory can be used against them, so they need to be very careful about who gets these skills. Since (a) the admission process is difficult and (b) the course work is difficult, very few humans graduate to Guardian status. Nick is not the only Guardian, but they aren't a dime a dozen. Frankly, I doubt Nick met Samson for the first time in Ishimura, because I would think that the Maza family and the Manhattan clan would still be pretty tight. Samson probably met Nick more or less immediately after he was born.

2. Less than a hundred.

3. Ishimura has a long tradition of teaching Bushido to humans. In a global environment, it made sense to locate the school of the Gargoyle Nation in that location. Avalon was much less practical.

4. The purpose is the same, and Tom is the clear inspiration for the Order. I'm not going to reveal whether or not he's alive. Mathematically, it is possible. Assuming Tom spent nearly all of his remaining life on Avalon, he'd be biologically 62 in 2198. (As opposed to biologically 54 in 1996.) But that's no guarantee of survival.

Response recorded on January 20, 2004


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