A Station Eight Fan Web Site
My ramble on "The Cage".
I quite liked this episode, especially since I'd been wondering a little over what happened to the Mutates after "Metamorphosis"; oddly enough, the one whom I was really wondering over was Maggie more than Talon. (Part of it was that I always had a strong sense of sympathy for Maggie, finding herself suddenly and unexpectedly "drafted" into a "war" that she didn't even suspect was taking place when she came to New York, and feeling much more the "ordinary person" in all of this than Derek/Talon did. I especially found myself wondering whether she'd find a cure, and even, at the climax, was half-expecting her to get cured when she took the phial from Sevarius.)
Regarding the identity of Sevarius's kidnapper: I honestly don't recall for certain what I thought the first time that I saw this episode. But Goliath as the kidnapper did make sense, given that he had the motive. I thought that the interaction between Goliath and Elisa over that act was well-done.
I hadn't really thought that Claw's muteness was in part a way of saving on voice actors (though it does make sense) - a lot of that comes, in part, from the fact that my writing has always been of the "written page" variety as opposed to the so that I've never had to give serious consideration to the logistics for writing for television (or the movies, for that matter), where you do have to concern yourself with things such as actor availability or actors needing to be paid. I saw his muteness more in terms of the cornerstone of his characterization (assuming that it's based on the shock and horror of his situation). I hadn't noticed before now that Diane doesn't speak in the episode, by the way.
I share your enjoyment and delight in Xanatos's lines such as "He's the scientist; you're just the experiment. Oh, hello, Goliath, almost didn't see you there." Definitely ranks among Xanatos's all-time great lines. Another of my favorites is Sevarius's "Nothing is so annoying as having someone watching over my shoulder" (though, frankly, I'm a little surprised that he actually dared speak that way to Goliath!)
The ending with the Mutates and Mazas is a lovely one, and it is nice to see Talon's family still accepting him despite his condition. Not to mention the shot of Goliath watching with an approving smile behind the curtain.
As for the "cage symbolism", I honestly hadn't picked up on it all the way until now. It's nice to know about that at last.
I've got to start rambling more often, if for no other reason than so I can get a chance to read the fans rambling back. Thanks.
Like METAMORPHOSIS and later, KINGDOM, I missed this episode the first time it aired. I did see it after METAMORPHOSIS though, and the rest of the second season (sans KINGDOM). Consequently, I had already become familiar with Vinnie in VENDETTAS, and had seen the new designs of the Mutates in THE RECKONING. Even though I had seen Claw in FUTURE TENSE, I wasn't sure if he was the same character as the "Tiger Mutate" because he didn't have wings. Fang in a jail cell...didn't surprise me. Having seen the way he liked his new form at the end of METAMORPHOSIS, I kind of figured he was a ne'er-do-well. Regardless, I was *extremely* happy to see this "lost chapter" in the series.
Even after having seen VENDETTAS, I still remained convinced that it was Talon who had kidnapped Sevarius. I think it was the kidnapping-sillohuette (sp?) that sold me--it looked enough like Talon in my eyes. And I remained convinced until I saw the image on Vinnie's security screen.
Speaking of which, it was fun watching Vinnie here, even in hindsight.
I had seen Beth Maza first in CLOUD FATHERS, so her appearance here had less impact on me than it probably would have, but she had some nice moments (especially the reminisce (sp?) about Derek).
I did rather like the new character designs (and my Mom, who has a thing for black panthers, *loves* Talon). I also like that Maggie tries to be the peacemaker in the first battle.
Actually there's a lot of interesting things about Maggie in this episode. Even though she's not a "warrior" she is confident enough to disagree with Talon, something she does in the beginning fight, when Talon accuses Goliath of being in cahoots with Sevarius, and at the end when Talon is ready to kill the doctor regardless of the chance for a cure.
Her interaction with the gargoyles themselves presents some fascinating qualities. She's openly apologetic to Hudson when Fang and Claw capture him and Bronx, and seems rather quiet around all the others...except Brooklyn. He is the *only* one in this episode who she becomes angry or confrontational with. I really like this. It's like a holdover from their first encounter, and has her actually arguing against Brooklyn for the idea she had disagreed with in the first place (especially when his thoughts threaten the hope that Xanatos will cure her). Also, it strikes me that the ease with which Maggie can confront Brooklyn is an indication that he is...more familiar to her, maybe? She just seems (to me) to act far less awkward around him. Of course, she did take him out with an electric bolt a month and more back.
As for Brooklyn, he really showed his maturity in this ep. He does not make a decision based on his crush here, and his letting Maggie and the rest go free probably went farther towards gaining their trust than trying to argue with them about Xanatos (well, Maggie and Claw anyway, Fang was out cold).
Re: Talon and Maggie's relationship. I saw it happen pretty much right when she glided down to stand between Talon and Elisa & Goliath. The way they talked to each other, the way they touched each other--it's amazing how close a couple can become when they've got nothing to rely on but each other (and two others, one who doesn't talk and other who talks too much) for several weeks.
Sevarius (and unfortunately, Greg, the misspelled briefcase was never corrected) is a lot of fun in this ep. We see him at the mercy of a gargoyle again, and he has some fun lines here ("I dislike having to work with someone hanging over my shoulder--Oh, wonderful, now there's two of you!"). My brother (who watched this with me the first time) loved one sequence in particular: in the third Act, when Goliath and Elisa are having their heart-to-heart, Sevarius is in the background mixing chemicals that frequently produce small explosions of green smoke. Fun!
Fang I had already known at length before, so it didn't surprise me that he was a bit of a jerk to Claw and abrasive with everyone else. What surprised me was that, despite this, he seemed rather chummy with them all (especially at the end) and never even argued with Talon. Maybe he did like being part of the group at first, and didn't have a bone to pick with Talon as long as he was sent to beat people up.
I finally got to learn more about Claw, too. I liked that his muteness was a result of trauma from the transformation.
Goliath and Elisa stay true to their personalities. Even when I found out that Goliath was the one who kidnapped Sevarius, I didn't feel for a minute that it was out of character for "our hero." I had never thought that Goliath's behavior here was a sort of indicator of what he would be like in EYE OF THE STORM, but it certainly makes sense. I did like Goliath's spying on the happy reunion at the end. It's not often you get to see the big guy smiling like that.
It's both frustrating and cool the way Xanatos dupes Derek. You'd think Derek would be more likely to at least investigate the claims of his sister (whom he's known his whole life) as oppossed to a man he's known personally for less than a year. But Derek, in addition to being blinded by rage may be in a bit of denial. Maybe he's still not entirely ready to admit that he was wrong about Xanatos? On the other hand, Xanatos is just that good. Before even mentioning the "placebo" Xanatos reinforces the idea in Derek's mind that Goliath is in cahoots with Sevarius. And Owen of course picks up on it ("It appears Sevarius *left* with Goliath").
There's an animation moment that I really like: when Owen is scanning the computer for labs that Talon might have taken Sevarius to, the readout is reflected in his glasses.
In contrast,an animation moment that bugs me: twice at the clocktower, once while fighting Brooklyn, and again when he's hanging unconcious between Maggie and Claw, Fang is inexplicably replaced with Talon. It just so mars otherwise good moments.
During the fight at the tower, I love it when Brooklyn uses the clock hand to get the jump on Fang. He looks so neat doing that.
On the subject of fights, Goliath and Talon's skirmish in the Labyrinth always puzzles me. Goliath seems to fare pretty poorly in the fight, more than I would have expected from him. I sometimes wonder if maybe Goliath was hesitant to hurt Elisa's brother.
The finale in which Xanatos finally reveals himself to Talon is, without a doubt, one of the highlights of the series. Talon of course has one of those great realizations of betrayal and irony ("I trusted you! You turned me into a monster and I defended you!"). And Xanatos...doesn't gloat, doesn't patronize, he just states simple facts. And then, half-surprised half-cheerful, acknowledges Goliath. This is an antagonist for the ages.
I liked the moment when Maggie was willing to take the potion, and Talon talks her out of it. It's a great individual character & relationship moment. I really enjoy it.
Of course Goliath offers to have the Mutates join his clan. I knew that Goliath would do something like that (again, he's staying true to his personality). I also, already knew that Talon and co. wouldn't be part of the clan proper (from seeing later episodes), but I was still surprised at how the Mutates decided to stick out on their own.
It was pleasant to have a rather upbeat ending in Derek's story for a change. I was glad (and maybe a little surprised) at how the Maza family was able to deal with this change in their son. It's just so good to see such a strong family, I guess.
It was several viewings before I really noticed the open cage at the end and got the symbolism. Regardless, I liked it.
Despite some animation problems, this is a really good episode.
It sounds really good when you talk about it, anyway. You're ramble was a great read. Thanks.
Do you happen to know the spell that Demona cast in Hunter's Moon? If not, and you all didn't make one up, well, I and a whole lot of other gargoyles and Gargoyle fans would love it if you could.
I don't think we bothered researching any more Latin then we absolutely needed to. (And it seems we didn't do a great job on the Latin we did research.)
Be my guest.
Why was Goliath's human form different when Puck made him human than when Titania made him human?
I had nothing to do with the Goliath Chronicle episode where Titania made Goliath human. So I can't answer why they changed the model... though I'll question IF they truly changed it.
Aside from clothes and hair-length -- are you sure the model was different? (I've only seen that episode once, eight years ago, so I can't remember.)
Since Odin survived Ragnarok how about Fenrir?
Is Fenrir the same as Fenris the Wolf?
1.Are Thor's sons alive? I mean they were said to survive ragnorak.
2.How about Vidar and Vali?
3.What about Odin's wife? Is she alive?
I'm not going to start rattling off a laundry list of Norse Gods and figures.
I have basic ideas about how Norse mythology fits into the Gargoyles Universe, but I won't pretend I've yet had the opportunity (or need) to go through each and every "character" and figure out where he or she or it is currently hanging.
Keep in mind I usually go to bed at about 2am. Last night/this morning was no exception. I had to set the alarm for 4:30am in order to get to the airport and get through security (which is ever-mutating and unpredictable) in time to catch my flight outa this burg.
Did I mention that today is Friday the 13th?
I'm not usually superstitious about Friday the 13ths, because my wife was born on a Friday the 13th, so I kinda consider it a lucky day for me.
But my flight was cancelled. Not delayed. Cancelled. Some equipment malfunction and no back-up plane to take it's place. The current plan is to try again tomorrow. Wish me luck.
So anyway, came home and we decided to go to the movies: "MIRACLE".
Many of you are too young, but many of you are old enough to remember the 1980 Winter Olympics and the "Miracle on Ice" U.S. victory over the unbeatable Soviet Union team. I was 16 and saw the game on ABC. My father had also only recently bought our first VCR, and we actually have the game on tape.
This movie brought back SO many memories. It is incredibly well-made, and Kurt Russell is amazing in it. The truly phenomenal thing about the film is that I knew exactly how it was going to end, but I was nevertheless on the edge of my seat the entire time. Not as seat-edgy as I was 24 years ago, of course, when I DIDN'T know the outcome, but still...
I recommend this film to anyone, whether or not they are interested in hockey.
Meanwhile, I have a headache and am, for obvious reasons, quite tired. So if I start to ramble, well...
Last week I had three celebrity sightings over a three day period.
Saw what's-his-name (I'm blanking out) the Quantum Leap guy who plays Jonathan Archer on Star Trek Enterprise at the Yellow Balloon, which is a kid's haircutting place. I was there with my two kids. He was there with his two sons. (Or at least I assume they were his sons.)
Later that afternoon, I saw Nancy Travis from "Becker". I was at a bowling alley with my two kids. She was at the alley with her son. (At least I assume it was her son. Maybe she traded kids with Archer for the day.)
Two days later, I saw Melissa "Laura Ingalls" Gilbert at Jamba Juice. She's currently the president of the Screen Actors Guild. She's about my age. She ordered a smoothie. The Jamba guy asked her what size, and I wanted to say "Give her a half-pint." But I figured she didn't need that joke from me. And it wasn't that funny anyway. My kids weren't there. Neither were hers or Archer's.
Disney. I probably shouldn't comment on this AT ALL.
I'm afraid I'm not one of the big Eisner-bashers. I worked for him during the Eisner/Katzenberg team-up years. And I'm not saying it was a piece of cake, but I had to pitch to the man once every six months, and I have no complaints about that era. He bought Gargoyles afterall. Course, I had to pitch it to him three times, but he still let us make the show. And for me personally, things got worse when Eisner STOPPED making the final decisions about which shows Disney TV Animation should make. Back then, when he gave the green light, other divisions either got on board or got out of the way. Now, all decisions are made by committee. I don't envy TVA's current execs and creative types. It's much harder to get a green light. And much harder to get a show made. The buck of course ultimately stops with Eisner -- even for this new way of operating, but people bitch about his micro-managing. And he never did that to us. But his complete removal from our process created a system which I think is arguably much worse.
In a war between Eisner and Roy Disney, it's hard not to want to side with the guy who literally carries the Disney name. But I have to admit that my Disney concerns are more parochial. The division I'm still (after all these years) most interested in is the TV Animation Division that (I like to think) I helped build with guys like Gary Krisel, Bruce Cranston, Jymn Magon, Tad Stones, Karl Geurs, Alan Zaslove, Tom Ruzicka, Michael Webster, etc. And frankly, I just don't know what Roy thinks of our old stuff. I know that back in the day, he WOULDN'T let us use characters like Mickey, Donald, Goofy, etc. He didn't think we could do them justice, I guess. He didn't stand in the way of a show like Gargoyles, but I never once heard an attaboy from him. And I did from Eisner.
Does that mean anything ten years later. Probably not. But it makes the whole sitch kinda gray and murky for me loyalty -wise.
But in a war between Eisner and Comcast? Well, I have no idea what would truly be best for the company, but it would be hard for me to see Disney lose it's independence and become merely a subsidiary of a larger conglomerate... and frankly aren't these conglomerates LARGE A DAMN NUFF ALREADY?
I don't have the answers to any of this.
Disney vs. Pixar. Or more accurately Eisner vs. Jobs. Again, hard not to want to side with Jobs, but I've been reading the Business sections on this, and Jobs seems to have made the deal impossible to make financially. Now the reason he may have done this may be because Eisner pissed him off beyond the ken, I have no idea, but there was no way anyone acting in Disney's fiduciary interest would give up 50% share of two Pixar movies in exchange for an on-going relationship with Pixar that would only have amounted to fixed Distribution fees. That just doesn't make financial sense to me as a Disney *but not a Pixar* stock holder.
I'm tired and murky. And you know what, I didn't see Brother Bear, but my kids liked it. And I LIKED TREASURE PLANET!!! Quite a bit, actually. So I wish people would stop knocking the movie. I think Disney botched the marketing on it and then sabotaged the thing by writing it off after one weekend before word-of-mouth even had a chance to help them off.
I'm bummed that Disney dismantled it's Tokyo Animation division. For personal reasons, that bums me out more than what they did in Florida and even to their Burbank Features staff. But it's all a bad sign.
I'm not even coherent now, am I ?
I'll stop rambling and try to answer a couple questions.
See you next week ... unless the plane doesn't take off again tomorrow.
Did Odin's two brothers Vili and Ve exist in the gargoyle universe? If so are they alive?
I'm tired, so I'm going to fall back on...
"All things are true."
In norse mythology, the gods had to eat the apples of idun to retain their youth so mind explaining how it came about in context to the fact that the norse gods are beings of magic that can control their age.
Yeah. I mind.
Do Titania and Oberon's two children in any of the traditional stories about the fay?
It depends what you consider fay-canon, I guess.