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RETORTS 2004-02 (Feb)

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Lord Sloth writes...

Here's another wild guess at the date: Father's day, 2003?
And now for the questions.
1. How does subliminal education offset the accelerated growth of clones? Does it go something like this perhaps?

Money is good!
Stop growing.
Power is good!
Stop growing.
Control is good!
Stop growing.
Profit is good!
Stop growing.
Protecting those you care for is bad!
Stop Growing.
Blackmailing people (with the exception of your father) is good!
Egon Pax.
Egon Pax!

Or was it something else?

2. Were Burbank's, Malabu's, Brentwood's, Hollywood's and Delila's fast growth turned off the same way, by programing in: "obey Thailog" and "don't thing for yourself"?

3. Who created the Elisa clone we saw in "Protection", and what happend to her?

Thanks for putting up with me once again.

Greg responds...

Closer to Valentine's Day 2004.

1. I don't understand the question AT ALL. Big "Huh?" on this one.

2. What does their accelerated growth have to do with their programming? Two separate processes.

3. What? What Elisa clone?

You're pulling my leg, aren't you?

Response recorded on February 12, 2004

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George writes...

Is Gargoyles 2198 a lot like the original gargoyles episodes. like haveing a few gargoyles (main charactors)or does it consist of no really main characters but 14 differnt clans showen every once and awhile

Greg responds...

Much more the former than the latter. You can read the development in the ASK GREG Archives.

Response recorded on February 11, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

1.Would two age accelerated clones of the same gargoyle have the same coloring?
2.If Delilah(I) was grown naturally what would her coloring be?
3.Does Delilah of 2198 have the same coloring as her ancestor? If not mind telling us what her coloring is?

Greg responds...

1. Assuming all else is equal, I'd say yes.

2. Good question. Depends what pieces of DNA Sev used for skin tone, I guess.

3. I was thinking yes, but the characters aren't designed and I won't be held to that.

Response recorded on February 11, 2004

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LEX is cool writes...

first I would like to compliment you on a great job. you have created a truly phanominal show.(sorry can't spell)
I watch it all the time.

Well, I got a few question about Lex (with him being my favorite character and all).

1.) Is Lex's mate going to have the same type of wings as Lex? Somehow I cant imagine haveing Lex's mate have the typical type of wings most other Gargoyles have. They seem much taller and id really like to see another gargoyle with that unique type of wings

2. Id also like to know how you think Lex feels, being the smallest and supposedly the weakest of the others. does he feel less efficent as a fighter or something.

3.) does Lexs hatred limit his amility in battle or improve it in anyway(fighting with rage and such)

4.) last question(sorry if i ask to many questions im just curious)when and where will Lexs mate be introduced will you tell us eventully? or in a gargoyle series(if it starts back up again)? I know you probably dont want to answer this yet just seeing what info I can get on my favorite charactor.

BTW thanx for your time I appreciate it

PS: keep trying Lexy I want to know his mate as much as you do Hehe (i learned a lot from your posts.=)

Greg responds...

1. I'm not answering this.

2. He's a fairly effective fighter, using his size and speed to his advantage. I've never noticed any kind of complex.

3. I think that he's generally been less effective against the Pack, because he lets his rage get the better of him.

4. I can't intro Lex's mate without a professional story-telling medium to intro Lex's mate. I'm still working on finding that medium. I haven't given up.

Response recorded on February 10, 2004

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Cristian Alvernaz writes...

Just got finished reading your ramblings on the Gargs episodes. WOW is all I can say, reading those has rekindled what I love about this wonderful show you've given us. I know some of these are a little over due, but they were going thru my mind as I was reading here we go.

UPGRADE- This episode actually kept me up at night the first time I saw it. I, like Dingo, was disgusted emotionally of they wy the pack treated their bodies. Wolf was just physically changed, but Jackal and Hayena were down right freaky, there was very little left that was actually human (I'm guessing Jackal's head and Hayena's torso & head). a reocurring mental image was the garbage bags containing their bodies callously tossed into the GEN-U-TECH dump. Really freaky stuff.Yes, I always had considered Brok the second in command.

HIGH NOON- A personal fav. As was intended, I got that feeling of "whoah, THREE villains!" and continue to feel that way every time I see it, maybe just cause we didn't see Coldstone all that often, and he's one of my favorite characters. Comming off of City of Stone I was baffled as to why Demona and Macbeth were working together, but I came to the conclusion that they were under the control of the Weird Sisters. The "comming battle" line at the end intrigued me, my friend ws baffled by it, even beyon watching Avalon he was expecting some monstrous epic brawl, I feel the line referred directly to their machinations with the Archmage. I feel the toy of Coldstone helps to establish more the re-animated stone cause his actual skin was all cracked, a truly morbid thought indeed! I still the CS toy was the best one released followed by Bronx.

CITY OF STONE- Great episode, but I was put off by the first showing of Macbeth feeling Demona's pain. I didn't gather it, honestly ,I thought it was an animation error the first time. After re-watching it I'm like "ahhhh I get it now , those smart guy have thought of everything!" Also, I took note of Owen recognising the wrong spell, tho it took some time for the payoff, I did catch it.

The Mirror- Another fav. what can I say, it was perfect, I love it when the Gargs use their "extra" limbs for other things, like Demona's tail poking Puck and Goliath's wing in HighNoon. The only thing that was odd to me was when Demona, holding Puck with her wings, hovers into the subway. Upon re-watching I hear the sound effect of Puck hovering her , but I didn't catch this the first time.

Vows- I wish the animation was a liitle better in depicting the difference of older characters than it was, I mena Hudson had the obvious eye thing , y.Demona didn't have the arm jewelry and was thinner, and Goliath was only thinner and happier sounding. No biggie tho. I love how time travel was handled on the show, it always made perfect sence to me, leaving me explaining it to my friends (one of them STILL doesn't understnd how Gryff showed up!) Xanatos was awesome in this one! Fox's dress was reaaalllllyy low cut in the back, that's probably why their clothes were react to as such, she was real close to flashing some behind (not that I'd complain!

EYE OF THE BEHOLDER- I missed this one and cought it next re-run. Was it just me or was the animation during Act2 diferent from Acts 1&3? I liked Xanatos' variation of the armor. I was also shocked that you were able to get away with Fox not wearing anything, really interesting ;]. Of course watching this one in re-run I was spoiled to the notion that the Eye of Odin was important by the Avalon arc, but I would've noticed it anyway, the Edge was my bros' all time fav episode.

Keep em' coming and I'll keep enjoying them. now, because I'm kinda lazy, is Gargoyles 2198 merely an idea that is being pitched around or is it something more? Thanks alot!

Greg responds...

G2198 is just an idea in my head, largely. I haven't even pitched it since 1996 (when it was set in 2158 and called Gargoyles Future Tense).

Response recorded on February 10, 2004

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some guy writes...

if Gargoyles get put back on the air are are you going to use the idea of GARGOYLES 2198 for sure.

Greg responds...

"for sure" depends on how much freedom I have, I guess. But if I had my druthers, I'd eventually get to everything.

Response recorded on February 10, 2004

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Blaise writes...


I'll be honest and say that this isn't one of my favorite episodes. Of course, in the initial airing that may have largely been the result of not having my favorite garg (Brooklyn) even appearing. And while I have definitely gotten over that, I think I really would have appreciated at least some mention of where the others were at this time (even if only "They're out on patrol...with Bronx").
Even then, there are a few other things that put me off. Broadway's "mobster lingo" for one. I'm sure some may find it humorous, and it is in keeping with Broadway's character, no doubt about that, but I just cringe every time he talks like that. I suppose I may have liked it better if there had been shots of the other characters reacting to it--Dracon and gang looking perplexed, Elisa embarrassed, and Goliath...well, the stoic look works for him.
There were other bits and pieces of dialogue that didn't really work for me, and they usually run along the lines of "stereotypical cops & mobsters" phrases (Elisa and Glasses get a few of that). On the other hand, I don't have any better suggestions for dialogue, so that's how much my two cents are worth.
And chalk me up as another one who didn't think Elisa had gone bad or was a clone (or even suspected that she was being framed--her telling Pal Joey that "Dracon's territory is [her] territory" led me to believe that she was the "lady cop" Glasses had been talking about...a conclusion I had already drawn when Glasses mentioned it).
All that said, this ep has gotten better with age for me, and there are quite a few nice things in it.
Elisa's clothes were a plus. I loved seeing her in something a little more..."fun," I guess you could say.
And while there may have been dialogue I didn't like, there was a fair amount that I did find enjoyable. Most of the one's that you listed, Greg, but also some that I like mostly because of the way the actor's read them:
Elisa: (as Goliath and Broadway attack) "Oh, not now!"
Dracon: (after Elisa has introduced Dracon to the gargoyles) "We've met."
Pal Joey: "Knock out the people, blow up the building: simple." (Gotta love that guyes ease when it comes to mob work.)
There are also some animation moments I like--standouts being Elisa's facial reactions when Dracon drapes his arm around her shoulders, and Goliath's gripping his belt at the end of Act 2 (you don't see him do that often).
Character-wise, the one's that are presented are still enjoyable. Goliath's outrage at the perversion of "protection" was something I didn't fully appreciate until later viewings. For a gargoyle that lives up to the ideals of his people, that's got to be something akin to blasphemy. [Note: I had not read Todd's comments when I wrote this, but I am in full agreement with him here.]
I loved Matt's interaction with Jaffe as well (and I could kick myself for not getting the "tilting at windmills" reference right off the bat). I also smile at how Matt looks in his disguise.
The whole supporting cast is enjoyable. Art and Lois are a nice introductory couple, and I love Art's defiance, how he almost names Dracon, only to be talked down, grudgingly, by Lois. A nice contrast in personalities, and you really feel sorry that their business of 30-years was gone in an instant.
I think Dracon, while not the mightiest of the garg's adversaries, has some enjoyable character aspects. Mostly, his chutzpah (sp?)--in his first appearance he took on Xanatos, here...he pats Goliath on the shoulder (I love G's growl). Glasses and Pal Joey are also unique, each in their own ways. I noticed Dracon's quiet insult to Glasses about how he's obviously not "the man in charge." You highlighted an interesting difference between Dracon and Xanatos, Greg--Dracon treats his henchmen in a fashion closer to a "normal" animated villain. Of course, he doesn't have the normal animated sidekicks--Glasses is more intelligent, and Pal Joey more ruthless. Seriously, Pal Joey really makes an impression here; his attitude during the interrogation, his "professional" demeanor in attmepting to blow up the laundromat, all very cool.
I didn't figure out who the laundromat owners were until after they dropped their act. :)
Dracon getting the drop on Elisa in the general store was a bit of a stretch, but I love that Elisa extricated herself from it and KICKED DRACON'S GANGERSTER @$$! I also loved it when she stuck it to Dracon about his habit of calling her "sugar."
One thing I saw in my first viewing that I really liked was the fact that Dracon's being out of jail was at least brought up. In a show like BATMAN, you don't mind that the villains just appear out on the streets again without an explanation, but in GARGOYLES, Xanatos kind of set a precedent. Bottom line, I was glad that at least some explanation was given for why Dracon was free to run business as usual.
Watching Broadway racing against the bomb's timer is always a nice sequence for me, and it still gets me how he just barely escapes the explosion.
I really liked Goliath's speech to Dracon when he had the jerk in the air. I hadn't really picked up on the clue of Goliath's eyes losing their "anger-glow," but I did find it a neat image all the same.
I also loved Goliath's, "I will protect you, you will protect me, and together we will protect this city." That was a line that really hit me.
As for the whole "Jalapena" thing...eh, it didn't leave too great an impression on me except for Goliath's one at the end. It did make for a cheesy, but somewhat fun way to finish the ep. I hadn't expected it to appear as a curse word throughout the rest of the series. I do agree that the gargs should have found some sort of substitute swear word, but I would have loved something with a more...gaelic (sp?) sound, maybe?
Anyway, while its not at the top of my list, there are things to like in this episode.

Greg responds...

It seems to be lukewarm for many people.

We did make an effort, here and in general, to "flesh" out our minor (sometimes very minor) supporting characters, like Pal Joey and Mr. Jaffe. I'm glad that stuff seemed to work for you. All part of trying to make the garg universe as real as possible.

Response recorded on February 09, 2004

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Lacey & Marlissa writes...

What are some fact about Austrilla because my partner and I are in a class were we have to research Austrilla for a report in library Science thanks lots

Greg responds...

Dingo's from there. Matrix too.

Does that help?

Response recorded on February 09, 2004

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I'd like to thank everyone who participated in last night's chat.

Props especially go out to Mooncat for moderating and logging the thing.

To Matt for suggesting it (more-or-less) in the first place.

And for Gorebash for hosting it.

Finally, I'd like to send a personal shout out to "Beth Maza". I had forgotten that that was your screen name, and I'm afraid I was so busy answering questions that it didn't register when you came in the room. Of course, I remember you and your REAL name.

Beth Maza was the con-chair for the very first GATHERING in Manhattan in 1997. She almost single-handedly organized the convention and got me there (against all odds, I should add). We all owe her a huge debt of gratitude. Me most of all.

Next to Gorebash, no one besides Beth did more to bring me into the fandom at the beginning. Thanks. (And I hope you see this.)

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Todd Jensen writes...

My "ramble" about "Protection".

I'll admit that this isn't one of my favorite ones (more out of my personal tastes, I suppose, than anything else), although a few parts of it did stand out to me. Especially Goliath's disgust that Dracon would actually call his extortion racket "protection" (and indeed, to him, that misuse of the word would be approaching blasphemy).

Looking back on my "first-time response", I know that I definitely didn't think that the "Elisa gone bad" was a clone (maybe because the story concept here was so obviously a mundane one - Dracon, the most "mundane" of the recurring antagonists running an extortion racket - that such a notion just didn't occur to me). I'm not sure if I thought that it was a frame-up; what I do know is that I was surprised to see Elisa acting that way, and it made sense to me when it turned out that she was just acting. (I noticed that Goliath believed that she'd been placed under a spell - his 10th century upbringing naturally at work again here - but that Broadway made the correct realization almost at once.)

One nice touch during the "acting" scene for Pal Joey's benefit: Chavez mentioning about how Elisa's been acting strange lately - I can't help wondering whether she really was wondering about that at the time. (It certainly had the advantage of making the "acting" less obvious to the audience).

I've occasionally wondered just how much Dave knew about what was really going on when Elisa was visiting him in the pool hall. Did he really believe that Elisa was a crooked cop?

One other favorite part: the bit where Dracon asks Goliath if Elisa's his woman (just goes to show that he may be a crook, but he's not blind), then starts patting him on the shoulder, commenting on how he's got good taste - Goliath glowers at him for that familiarity, and Tony hurriedly retreats. (I can't say that I blame him, but I'm amazed that he was actually daring to pat Goliath to begin with).

Broadway lets out another rude crude belch while helping himself to the jalapena peppers. Though it's the last one that I can recall in the series.

I couldn't help but think that Matt looked almost hopelessly geeky in his grocery clerk disguise. Jaffe's "tilting at windmills" line reminded me of your remark about how "quixotic" is a very good word to describe Matt (I recall that I initially used it in my comments about his pursuit of the Illuminati).

We also find out how Dracon keeps on showing up again in spite of his getting arrested each time in the previous episode - though obviously, in light of his being behind bars at the beginning of "Turf", there are limits to what even his lawyers can do.

It's really great to have the rambles going again. I'm eagerly awaiting the next one.

Greg responds...

ME TOO!!!!

I think Dave did think that Elisa was corrupt.

Response recorded on February 06, 2004

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