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I'll be honest and say that this isn't one of my favorite episodes. Of course, in the initial airing that may have largely been the result of not having my favorite garg (Brooklyn) even appearing. And while I have definitely gotten over that, I think I really would have appreciated at least some mention of where the others were at this time (even if only "They're out on patrol...with Bronx").
Even then, there are a few other things that put me off. Broadway's "mobster lingo" for one. I'm sure some may find it humorous, and it is in keeping with Broadway's character, no doubt about that, but I just cringe every time he talks like that. I suppose I may have liked it better if there had been shots of the other characters reacting to it--Dracon and gang looking perplexed, Elisa embarrassed, and Goliath...well, the stoic look works for him.
There were other bits and pieces of dialogue that didn't really work for me, and they usually run along the lines of "stereotypical cops & mobsters" phrases (Elisa and Glasses get a few of that). On the other hand, I don't have any better suggestions for dialogue, so that's how much my two cents are worth.
And chalk me up as another one who didn't think Elisa had gone bad or was a clone (or even suspected that she was being framed--her telling Pal Joey that "Dracon's territory is [her] territory" led me to believe that she was the "lady cop" Glasses had been talking about...a conclusion I had already drawn when Glasses mentioned it).
All that said, this ep has gotten better with age for me, and there are quite a few nice things in it.
Elisa's clothes were a plus. I loved seeing her in something a little more..."fun," I guess you could say.
And while there may have been dialogue I didn't like, there was a fair amount that I did find enjoyable. Most of the one's that you listed, Greg, but also some that I like mostly because of the way the actor's read them:
Elisa: (as Goliath and Broadway attack) "Oh, not now!"
Dracon: (after Elisa has introduced Dracon to the gargoyles) "We've met."
Pal Joey: "Knock out the people, blow up the building: simple." (Gotta love that guyes ease when it comes to mob work.)
There are also some animation moments I like--standouts being Elisa's facial reactions when Dracon drapes his arm around her shoulders, and Goliath's gripping his belt at the end of Act 2 (you don't see him do that often).
Character-wise, the one's that are presented are still enjoyable. Goliath's outrage at the perversion of "protection" was something I didn't fully appreciate until later viewings. For a gargoyle that lives up to the ideals of his people, that's got to be something akin to blasphemy. [Note: I had not read Todd's comments when I wrote this, but I am in full agreement with him here.]
I loved Matt's interaction with Jaffe as well (and I could kick myself for not getting the "tilting at windmills" reference right off the bat). I also smile at how Matt looks in his disguise.
The whole supporting cast is enjoyable. Art and Lois are a nice introductory couple, and I love Art's defiance, how he almost names Dracon, only to be talked down, grudgingly, by Lois. A nice contrast in personalities, and you really feel sorry that their business of 30-years was gone in an instant.
I think Dracon, while not the mightiest of the garg's adversaries, has some enjoyable character aspects. Mostly, his chutzpah (sp?)--in his first appearance he took on Xanatos, here...he pats Goliath on the shoulder (I love G's growl). Glasses and Pal Joey are also unique, each in their own ways. I noticed Dracon's quiet insult to Glasses about how he's obviously not "the man in charge." You highlighted an interesting difference between Dracon and Xanatos, Greg--Dracon treats his henchmen in a fashion closer to a "normal" animated villain. Of course, he doesn't have the normal animated sidekicks--Glasses is more intelligent, and Pal Joey more ruthless. Seriously, Pal Joey really makes an impression here; his attitude during the interrogation, his "professional" demeanor in attmepting to blow up the laundromat, all very cool.
I didn't figure out who the laundromat owners were until after they dropped their act. :)
Dracon getting the drop on Elisa in the general store was a bit of a stretch, but I love that Elisa extricated herself from it and KICKED DRACON'S GANGERSTER @$$! I also loved it when she stuck it to Dracon about his habit of calling her "sugar."
One thing I saw in my first viewing that I really liked was the fact that Dracon's being out of jail was at least brought up. In a show like BATMAN, you don't mind that the villains just appear out on the streets again without an explanation, but in GARGOYLES, Xanatos kind of set a precedent. Bottom line, I was glad that at least some explanation was given for why Dracon was free to run business as usual.
Watching Broadway racing against the bomb's timer is always a nice sequence for me, and it still gets me how he just barely escapes the explosion.
I really liked Goliath's speech to Dracon when he had the jerk in the air. I hadn't really picked up on the clue of Goliath's eyes losing their "anger-glow," but I did find it a neat image all the same.
I also loved Goliath's, "I will protect you, you will protect me, and together we will protect this city." That was a line that really hit me.
As for the whole "Jalapena" thing...eh, it didn't leave too great an impression on me except for Goliath's one at the end. It did make for a cheesy, but somewhat fun way to finish the ep. I hadn't expected it to appear as a curse word throughout the rest of the series. I do agree that the gargs should have found some sort of substitute swear word, but I would have loved something with a more...gaelic (sp?) sound, maybe?
Anyway, while its not at the top of my list, there are things to like in this episode.
It seems to be lukewarm for many people.
We did make an effort, here and in general, to "flesh" out our minor (sometimes very minor) supporting characters, like Pal Joey and Mr. Jaffe. I'm glad that stuff seemed to work for you. All part of trying to make the garg universe as real as possible.
What are some fact about Austrilla because my partner and I are in a class were we have to research Austrilla for a report in library Science thanks lots
Dingo's from there. Matrix too.
Does that help?
I'd like to thank everyone who participated in last night's chat.
Props especially go out to Mooncat for moderating and logging the thing.
To Matt for suggesting it (more-or-less) in the first place.
And for Gorebash for hosting it.
Finally, I'd like to send a personal shout out to "Beth Maza". I had forgotten that that was your screen name, and I'm afraid I was so busy answering questions that it didn't register when you came in the room. Of course, I remember you and your REAL name.
Beth Maza was the con-chair for the very first GATHERING in Manhattan in 1997. She almost single-handedly organized the convention and got me there (against all odds, I should add). We all owe her a huge debt of gratitude. Me most of all.
Next to Gorebash, no one besides Beth did more to bring me into the fandom at the beginning. Thanks. (And I hope you see this.)
My "ramble" about "Protection".
I'll admit that this isn't one of my favorite ones (more out of my personal tastes, I suppose, than anything else), although a few parts of it did stand out to me. Especially Goliath's disgust that Dracon would actually call his extortion racket "protection" (and indeed, to him, that misuse of the word would be approaching blasphemy).
Looking back on my "first-time response", I know that I definitely didn't think that the "Elisa gone bad" was a clone (maybe because the story concept here was so obviously a mundane one - Dracon, the most "mundane" of the recurring antagonists running an extortion racket - that such a notion just didn't occur to me). I'm not sure if I thought that it was a frame-up; what I do know is that I was surprised to see Elisa acting that way, and it made sense to me when it turned out that she was just acting. (I noticed that Goliath believed that she'd been placed under a spell - his 10th century upbringing naturally at work again here - but that Broadway made the correct realization almost at once.)
One nice touch during the "acting" scene for Pal Joey's benefit: Chavez mentioning about how Elisa's been acting strange lately - I can't help wondering whether she really was wondering about that at the time. (It certainly had the advantage of making the "acting" less obvious to the audience).
I've occasionally wondered just how much Dave knew about what was really going on when Elisa was visiting him in the pool hall. Did he really believe that Elisa was a crooked cop?
One other favorite part: the bit where Dracon asks Goliath if Elisa's his woman (just goes to show that he may be a crook, but he's not blind), then starts patting him on the shoulder, commenting on how he's got good taste - Goliath glowers at him for that familiarity, and Tony hurriedly retreats. (I can't say that I blame him, but I'm amazed that he was actually daring to pat Goliath to begin with).
Broadway lets out another rude crude belch while helping himself to the jalapena peppers. Though it's the last one that I can recall in the series.
I couldn't help but think that Matt looked almost hopelessly geeky in his grocery clerk disguise. Jaffe's "tilting at windmills" line reminded me of your remark about how "quixotic" is a very good word to describe Matt (I recall that I initially used it in my comments about his pursuit of the Illuminati).
We also find out how Dracon keeps on showing up again in spite of his getting arrested each time in the previous episode - though obviously, in light of his being behind bars at the beginning of "Turf", there are limits to what even his lawyers can do.
It's really great to have the rambles going again. I'm eagerly awaiting the next one.
I think Dave did think that Elisa was corrupt.
Knowing my luck this question has been answered but hey I'll ask it again for good measure! Are there any more Gargoyles eppisodes written? If so, is there any chance of gettng them out? Any? Any at all?
No. There was an issue I wrote for the Marvel Gargoyles comic, before it was cancelled. There was an episode of Team Atlantis that was written and recorded and featured Demona and Fiona Canmore that was never made. And there are tons of ideas floating around in my head.
But that's it.
Cool news on the Bionicle thing! hwat role do you play in the production of it?
I co-wrote the original story with Bob Thompson, Henry Gilroy and Allistair Swinnerton. I was Henry's story editor on the first couple drafts of the screenplay.
Have you read "Anubis Gates"?
About Castle Wyvern...
Now I know a wyvern is a "species" of dragon. Standing on his hind legs. It's either never had front legs or it's front legs evolved into wings, as bats have.
1.) Did you choose the name Wyvern just because it sounded good?
2.) Or was there a backstory to why that castle bears the name of this little known dragon species?
3.) If there is a backstory, could you tell us anything about it?
1. I believe that Michael Reaves chose the name Wyvern.
2. There is now. And if you come to a Gathering, you'll get a clear hint of what that is when you see the DARK AGES pitch.
3. Not right now. But maybe in Montreal. Check out:
this may nt be a good question but do u ever get mad or bord or question not ancering all these questions?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
But the positives still outweigh the negatives, or else I wouldn't be doing it.
My name is Ian,and like most kids,I want to be an actor,and was wondering,do you know of any way I could into the High School of Performing Arts?
Do MOST kids really want to be actors?
Man, that's depressing.
And no, I don't have a clue.
I don't even know WHICH High School of the Performing Arts you're talking about. The famous one from FAME in N.Y.?
Most major cities have one. I know L.A. does.
Anyway, try asking a guidance councilor, I guess.