A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Hi. When are we going to get Gargoyles on dvd? We have Transformers and Batman, so I think it is time we get another of the best american cartoons on dvd. Also, I mean the original uncut ones too, not like the Gargoyles Heroes Awaken movie that was an edited version of "Awakening" pt1-5. That had a couple of important things taken out of it. Thank you for your time, bye.
The current plan is for a "fourth quarter" release, i.e. sometime between September and December of 2004.
You mentioned once that the rookery riddle about Excalibur Griff recites in "Pendragon" was taught his clan by "the three". A few people have claimed that "the three" are Morgan le Fay, Nimue, and the Lady of the Lake; my own response was that we don't know as yet who "the three" are; that title isn't specific enough. What are your thoughts on this issue?
Well, I'm sure I was being intentionally vague. But in fact you just named the three I was talking about, and I guess I'm feeling generous, because I'm copping to it.
about to leave for the Gathering 2002!!! woohooo!!!
1. to the best of your knowledge, would any of Broadway and Angela's three offspring have skin or hair coloring that their parents don't have? like perhaps a grandparents coloring or something?
2. will the Eyrie Building be epuipped with a rookery or was the original Wyvern Rookery transplanted with the castle?
3. how many eggs will be laid in the Manhatten Clan's rookery in 2008? will it just be Broadway and Angela's first egg or will there be others? will there be any beast eggs?
Just a few short months until the Gathering 2004!!! woohooo!!!
1. I'm intentionally not nailing that down in my imagination so that I can feel comfortable giving the artist free reign. But it's certainly possible.
3. I don't care to reveal all that now.
Could Elisa have told the chief of police about her brother's condition after Metamorphosis or The Cage?
Obviously, she could have. But she didn't.
As the creator of Gargoyles, what exactly did you do, did you write stories? Draw pictures?
Isn't this old news? Anyway, to toot my own horn yet again:
I headed the development team that created the series and came up with many of the characters and concepts myself.
I came up with all 66 original springboards (i.e. the story ideas for the first two seasons + "The Journey"), though many people contributed nuggets of ideas.
I supervised all the writing. In essence, I story edited the story editors.
I also wrote and story edited one episode myself ("The Journey").
I supervised all the voice recordings. And I voice directed one episode ("Vendettas"), plus a few pick-up and phone patch sessions. I even performed the voice for one of Xanatos' Goon Squad (the guy who says "Nice Mask!").
I had input on all aspects of design and direction
I co-supervised all post-production, except the tele-cine process, which involves aspects of color too subtle for my color-deficient eyes.
I was the one person involved with the show from it's inception through the end of the third season, though my involvement in the third season (after "The Journey" was voice recorded) was limited to consulting work. And much of my consultations were ignored.
I have no credit on the television version of the pilot 5-parter because I was still an executive when those were posted, and at the time executives did not receive credit. I do have a Co-Producer credit on the Movie/VHS version of the pilot, because I supervised the post-production on that.
My official credit on the rest of the first season was "Co-Producer".
My official credit on the second season began as "Producer". Later it became "Supervising Producer" when two of our directors were promoted to Producer.
I'm also the credited "Writer" and "Story Editor" on "The Journey" and the credited "Voice Director" on "Vendettas".
I was supposed to receive a credit on the third season, but I waved it because it seemed dishonest as much of my advice wasn't taken.
Having said ALL THAT, Gargoyles was the work of literally hundreds of talented people, all of whom contributed to making it the success that it was. I think of it as my baby, and I'm often credited as it's creator. But I never lose track of the fact that it was a team effort.
Alright, this may seem a bit strange to ask, but I'm working on a fan fiction that included Puck.
I need to know all I can about him.
So will you please help me out on this.
Bassically I need to know about his history and if he has a girlfriend or not.
Thanks for your help.
My advice is to go to "original" sources such as Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream" or Kipling's works.
Or study episodes with Puck and/or Owen.
I'm not revealing more than that now.
Hi Greg. I started watching Gargoyles on Toon Disney over my younger sisters shoulder a few weeks ago and haven't stopped since. Alas I've discovered that Toon Disney are only showing about half the total number of episodes, so there are probably gaping holes in my understanding of the overall theme (I get the impression there is one - correct me if I'm wrong;-).
First off, very well done. I'm very impressed. Not only are they extremely well written and animated, but there is subtlety of dialogue and expression! In a Disney Cartoon? Indeed.
Secondly: just finished City of Stone. Missed part of it the first time round. There's only one thing I can say... "Oi! The tragedy!" If Demona is not one of the most cathartic characters created in the last century I don't know who is! Despite her brutal treatment of Goliath it's hard not to empathise with her, or to enjoy her episodes perhaps more than the rest (is this unhealthy?;-). Macbeth is the perfect counterpoint, another very good character and equally engaging in his own way. However, I am frustrated. I glanced down an episode list and couldn't find anything further devoted to them. How does their story conclude? I must know!
Thirdly: somewhere I posted an e-mail to a Gargoyles site and the owner told me a film had been on the cards for the last five years, but with no apparent progress. Is anything known that you could tell? I did wonder if, when the reply mentioned it might be live action, whether this might change as a result of the successes of CGI films in recent years. I wonder which would best suit the genre - CGI or live action? With CGI the original voice cast could be used, of course.
Sorry for the long message, and thanks for indulging a new initiate.
First off, as far as I know Toon Disney regularly showed EVERY episode (in order) except "Deadly Force". (And I understand they've started showing that one too.)
I'm not sure how glancing at an "episode list" (a list of titles?) would reveal anything about the contents of our episodes.
Of course, you posted this in 2002 and it's 2004 now, so I'm assuming that if you had a real interest you've seen all the eps by now. But, yes of course we did more episodes with Demona and Macbeth after City of Stone. Many more.
My latest information is that the Live-Action movie has been put on hold. After five plus years of Touchstone actively pursuing a script, they finally gave up.
Hi Greg ,
I wondered if you know where one can
find a chronological listing of
Oh, I'm sure I've posted this somewhere.
So I guess i'm in a way sort of a...um.."new" fan of gargoyles...i used to watch it all the time when i was younger but i guess i just had other things to do...but i'm watching it again now...way kul show dude...but i wantedto ask you...since i'm new and this is bugging the bejeepers out of me....does Elise Maza and Goliath ever put aside their differences and like wed r something?...i know i shuld continue watching the series....and i will try to watch it as much as i can...but disney likes to rerun them and they're not always in order...and now that i'm older unlike when i was a kid i have more responsibilities such as work and school that keep me from being able to watch it so i'd be extremely grateful if u'd fill me in on that subject...oh and heheh..Happy Birthday...may-b if i send it now it might reach u sometime around there...or if not merry christmas ^.^...heheh...see ya..
Disney is actually pretty good about airing the episodes in order. Of course, we didn't get to tell all the stories we wanted to. I only worked on 66 episodes and they did 12 more after I left and that's it.
So the short answer is, no, Goliath and Elisa do not get married by the end of the 66 or 78 episodes.
What happens in the future is another story.
Subject Make-A-Wish, Nov. 1999
Okay I this isn't exactically the best place to ask this but I'm not going to see you at The Gathering this year and by the time the next Gathering rolls around I'll probably have forgotten the question.
Anyway, my mother was telling me that _you_ asked her whether or not what was said about the road kill in Texas was true when we met ya'll back in November of 1999 through Make-A-Wish. However, I don't seem to remember you asking that. Then again my memory has gotten rather faulty lately.
What I want to know is were you the one that asked that or was it someone else?
Okay, another thing(more like a personal ramble on what was said that day) after we got finished taping the mock episode of Turf ya'll are all signing pictures and my script. Thom says something about his character Lexington and about Sheena Easton(I had no idea who she was then, but not long after that day I saw her on the Home Shopping Channel.)
Thom: Sheena Easton always said "The wee one is playing with his...weewee." I can't think of the word that she used though.(Something to that effect.)
Jeff(quickly supplies the word): Willyad!
All the while I'm thinking:'Tippickle men. Obsessed with that part of their anatomy! Well,I'm tired I'm not going to say anything. I just want to get to the hotel and fall into bed.' (That wasn't exactly what I was thinking, but there might be little kids out there that their parents do not wish them to know such things just yet.)
Anyhow, you get the idea. By the way in case you were wondering how I was capable of remembering that little chat between Jeff and Thom. It's because my mother accidently filmed it. If those two were a little more conservitive I might be tempted to use that darn tape as blackmail.
Well as they say down here, Adios Amigo. The Cat.
Hmm, curiousity is suppose to kill The Cat, I wonder how many of my nine lives I've wasted this time around.
I don't even know what this Road Kill comment is in reference to. It doesn't sound like even the kind of topic I'd raise.
And I doubt you could blackmail Thom with something THAT tame.
It's The Cat, again. Technically I've already asked this question, but it has more to do with when the gargoyles learned how to read than anything else.
It has been asked already, but your answer is not correct.
You aswered that Demona learned from the Archmage. Goliath learned from Demona. Lexington learned right before they were turned to stone for a thousand years. Brooklyn learned right after the spell was broken and of course Broadway and Hudson learned together from Elisa and the rest of the clan.
It is not correct in the fact that English was not a language back in 994A.D., much less a written language. So, here is your answer revised a bit for all those people that have to learn this in History class and then wonder how it could be possible for the gargoyles to have learned to read English if it wasn't a language.
Demona learned how to read English sometime while the others were in their stone sleep, after all life must really get boring having nothing to do and being a live for several centuries( do ya'll people really think that she'd kill humans all the time?) Goliath, Brooklyn and Lexington most likely learned how to read right after the spell was broken. After all the language Goliath and Lexington learned how to read was most likely Latin given the fact that that language was the only one besides Greek and Hebrew that were written down at the time.
Another question(actually the one above wasn't really a question, hmm, I've really got to work on that)
In the episode, A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time, The Scroles(I'm unsure if I spelt that right and I don't have a dictionary at hand right now) of Merlin were written in Ancient Celtic, but how could that be? Celtic wasn't a written language. Or it could have been and I just haven't covered that topic in my history lessons yet. But I don't think it was a written language at the time that the scrolls were written.
Well, I know this is a kind of multi-topic letter, but I was going on the topic of written languages more than anything. See ya.
I don't think I was asked when they learned to "read English", I think I was asked when they learned to read.
Of course, we generally cheated on language issues. Michael Reaves had a magical solution to this, which I like and have commented on before.
As for the Scrolls, I'd have to do more research to answer you in the kind of detail your post displays.
Do you know what your son Benny meant 2 years ago, when he said:
"I want to say that Mama likes Bigtime and Iggy and I like them, but I shoo them. And I'm sorry about that."
I don't believe this riddle had anything to do with the post it came with, which was asking about a connection between Owen's role as an assistant compared to Robin Goodfellow's role as housekeeper, but you never know. Perhaps you could ask him if he's around at the moment.
And is he perchance, referring to Iggy Pop, or to Iggy the lovable power generating rat?
I'm sure there's some profound meaning here, but I just can't comprehend it.
He's referring to our two cats, Iggy and Bigtime. When you have that piece of information, I think his comments make more sense. I don't know how profound they are, but they do speak to a profound (or at least momentary) sense of regret.
what would be the science behind how goliath and his clan glide,and climb almost anything except solid steel?
Who said they can't climb solid steel?
I don't know the science. They glide on their wings. They climb with their claws. Do you need more science than that?
Now that the 'How Many Gargoyles Does It Take To Screw In A Lightbulb?' contest is over, the world may breathe a collective sigh of satifaction... We know the answer to the question that has eluded us for millennia (or at least months...)
Any thoughts as to the next contest. In all honesty, I believe a contest so that we can finally see the elusive gargoyles Timeline. I know a few bits and pieces, but it would be amazing to see a completed Timeline. Being a fan from the beginning, I appreciate the level of effort that went into the creation of a stable continuity. With all the history, legends, time travel and flashback, I do not walk away from the series plagued by continuity errors.
Thank you lots of enjoyment and plenty more within the future.
You're welcome. No new contests, frankly, until Gore is ready to fix the problems here at ASK GREG.
More Space-Spawn questions for you…
1) What kind of anatomy do you see the Space-Spawn having, considering they were "born amidst the fury of an exploding star" I doubt they would be humanoid? Now I know you don't do character designs for very good reasons but I just wanted to know if you had any ideas on this subject.
2) How do the Space-Spawn communicate with each other, vocal chords being useless in the vacuum of space since there's no sound?
3) Would a Space-Spawn be able to survive in earth's atmosphere unaided by technology or magic?
4) Lastly, could you please give us just one part of the reason why the Space-Spawn war started? Some teaser? Some little opener? Some hint? Something?
1. I have very specific ideas, but as you mentioned, I'm not an artist, and I don't feel like tieing the hands of whatever future artist winds up (hopefully) designing the characters.
2. See above.
4. The Space-Spawn started building their empire without asking for volunteers.
Just thought I'd join the bandwagon here since posting in these archives is pretty well the best way to give my writings immortality.
I got my mom to watch this with me earlier (it's getting easier to get her into a new episode each time) and she enjoyed immensely. I like just as much, it's a very "crisp" looking episode IMO, and the story in spaced out well to always keep me interested with new revelations.
- When it got to the part where Elisa disappears and we see Raven flying over head, mom mistakenly asked "she turned into a crow?", and I thought that somewhat interesting as that never occurred to me when I first saw it; did anyone else think that?
I think my favorite part of this episode is when Raven scares that hungry bear enough to charge toward Elisa, and then Bronx boldy tackles him. It's just a very tense and scary moment that looks beautiful.
-I like when Goliath runs up that fallen tree trunk in order to glide; don't ask me why, I just do.
- I just want to congratulate whoever it was who designed the Thunderbird; she looked incredible cool, both scary and majestic.
-I also really liked Raven in his Gargoyle guise, and I agree with Jim R., he really reminds me of someone else.
-His clan of Illusion looked sweet as well, but I was kind of relieved that they weren't real since their diversity would have been harder to accept then the London Clan. Leo looks a lot less like a lion then the wolf guy resembles wolf
- Sea Monster had a nice prehistoric look & I liked how she used the blowhole, but her forelegs seemed very scrawny for her to be a good swimmer, if they could keep her afloat. Perhaps she had very big paddle hind legs to supporter her, and perhaps I'm just nit picking and she doesn't have to look right cause she's being of magic.
-A bit more repetitiveness in how Rory Dugan will latter on be learning to accept his Heritage, but this doesn't bother me at all. Each episode was different enough that it's cool seeing their similarities. At least Nick wasn't some old relic of a Haida Shaman reborn.
- Incidentally, I didn't like Nick all that much. Didn't dislike him, but he did seem slightly typical in his rejection of tradition. A the same time, I'd really like to see more of him in the show, and think he'd make a great mach up for Beth, assuming he'd end up with Beth. Perhaps Diane will become a widow in the near future, but we all know, for the long term, he can't touch Elisa with a 30-foot pole.
- Just want to mention that I love the all Tricksters in "Gargoyles"; smart and subtle is the key. And I think Xanatos deserves to be declared an official trickster.
- I'm no volcano expert, but I didn't think a caldaria could be filled almost to the brim with magma, and not be in danger of causing disaster. I accepted this more in "Ill Met" since it was on a magic island, but does anyone know if a volcano can really do this. It's a good thing it can in the Gargoyles Universe, cause it would be pretty embarrassing to let the water flow, renewing the balance of nature at last, only to have the volcano overflow and destroy everything. And I'm assuming the caldaria would have changed a bit by 2198.
-I loved that last scene with Harry Water (not Potter), though it did kind shock me initially.
One more interesting thing is how Angela shouts "We've defeated the monster!" after their first battle with Grandmother. If this had aired after "Monsters" (as it does on my tape cause for some reason I wanted to put the two Scotland episodes together) she would probably have not made that face value judgment. Now I know someone will likely point out that the name of that creature was "Sea Monster", but I'm sure you know what I mean, so don't. Just anther fascinating evolution of a character in this incredible show; was that intentional Greg?
There's one book I have read about a year ago that has a lot to do with the mythological stuff in this episode. It's got raven, and the thunderbird (though they don't make any personal appearances, it does go into Raven's origins and how he became such a pest) but it mainly concerns this fear/soul-devouring demon named Sisiutl; and the one of the main characters in a native called Grandfather interestingly enough. It's called "Dreamspeaker", it's by Cam Hubert and I recommend it to you all most enthusiastically. It won't even take you long, it's just 121 pages (though I'm sure you will wish there was more by the time you finish. After we finished watching Heritage, mother took out the book "Daughters of Copper woman" by Anne Cameron, which seems to go quite in depth into the legends of the Natives of B.C., and I hope to look into it more. Once again that dratted show has got me interested in another of the world's culture, and now I'm wasting my time researching it rather then watching TV. Hey, I wonder if that's what Disney finds so threatening about "Gargoyles". <HMRPH>
I'll just add a footnote that will probably please you. Ever since I started spending a lot of time at ASK GREG, my interest in writing stuff has increased tenfold. I'm creating essays about gargoyles as well as my own short stories and I feel that I owe it to you for creating this topic in the first place. Now I only need to learn to make English assignments interesting, and thus do more of them, but I've passed High School now so I'm happy.
That was a bit lengthy.
It was always our intention that you gain more from the series by watching the episodes in order. You're desire to put the two Scottish episodes together seems counter-productive. I suppose you could decide just as easily to put all the Thailog episodes together or all the Labyrinth episodes together. It's a nice digest, but it isn't ideal for enjoying all the series has to offer.
I don't think it EVER occured to me for a second before now that someone would have thought that Elisa transformed into a raven.
And any time the show gets people to read, it's a triumph. Thanks. Any time the show gets people to write is probably a good thing too. (Though I pity anyone who -- like me -- gets hooked on the habit.)
Me again! I hope I'm not being picky or anything, but I wanted to ask you a question about Hudson's sword. . . sometimes when Hudson turns to stone, so does his sword, but other times it doesn't.
Why is this?
(What sorcerey is this!?)
This is in the archives over and over. At the time of transformation, if Hudson is thinking of his sword as part of his uniform, it will turn to stone with the rest of his clothes per a spell cast during the time of Caesar Augustus. If he's thinking about it as a separate weapon (or whatever) it won't. He doesn't even have to be conscious of the decision.
I am a huge fan of the Gargoyles series, and have been looking for the full series. But, except for the first season, nothing else has come otu. I was just wondering if you knew if Disney is ever going to put out the full series on VHS or, better yet, DVD. I know I'm not the only one that would like to see it for sale.
DVD of the first season (again) is do out late this year. Whether or not the second season will become available will depend on the sales of the first season. So stock up!
Here goes my very first episode ramble don't know why it took me so long (I had a "shadows of the past" ramble but my computer seems to have eaten it). So we come to the second episode in the world tour, I am a full world tour supporter Greg I think it served a vital role in broadening the scope of the gargoyles universe. This episode really sets out to explore the whole "all things are true" issue. I think the introduction of Oberon's children was instrumental in that goal. I really like the way you went about that, first you established the fay as a race via Puck, set down the ground rules, creatures of pure magic, shape shifters, vulnerable to iron, no messing with mortal lives. And here in the world tour you establish that many of the supernatural beings in world mythology were in fact children of Oberon. This lets you bring in Odin, Anansi, the Banshee and so on without fussing over backstory and the like but back to today's episode. This episode starts off nicely I think, Goliath's rowing along and Elias craving a hot dog all nice and serene the BOOM the sea monster bursts out of the water and starts mixing it up with the gargs. It's kind of odd actually in retrospect causes grandmother would probably not have attacked the travellers. Then again, they defeat her rather easily, too easily. The whole totem pole thing made for a nice bit of red herring. Raven does a good job of duping Goliath by using one of the most fiendish kinds of lies, ones that are as close to the truth as possible. Even closer than raven realises as a gargoyle clan will actually make its home in that very crater, they'll be abducted by aliens a few minuets after they hatch but its still their home. I never thought grandmother was a bad guy, she just oozes niceness all over the place, the thunderbird is impressive, very majestic. Raven cleverly gets around the non-interference edict by sending that bear after Elisa (as I'm writing this you still haven't answered my question regarding weather the edict applies to animals). Natsilane's personal journey here is well played as he comes to terms with the fact that there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in his philosophy. Actually while we are on the subject I really am not too crazy about that Quote don't get me wrong it's a great quote its just that its so overused in soaps, sitcoms, advertising, hell even Lex Luther uses it, Kinda like the whole Yorick thing. The final battle in the volcano is very cool I especially liked the wooden totem beasts. Just curious are Natsilane's weapons made of iron or are they magical or what? Anyway thanks for another great episode. Till next time.
The edict applies to mortals. So I guess that includes animals.
They're magical weapons.
I don't think I expected "our heroes" to get home after just one stop, so it didn't surprise me that they ended up someplace else first. Of course, even I didn't expect them to be traveling for as long as they were....
Anyway, I love the way Angela is sitting in the skiff when she notices the sea monster. It's a small thing, barely on screen for a second, and I probably only notice it because I think she looks quite alluring there, but it's something that strikes me everytime I watch this episode.
The sea monster has an excellent design, very unique, and the ensuing battle has some real nice moments, such as when Angela appears to be riding a wave into battle.
Of course, the sea monster appears to damage the skiff during the battle, and in the next scene a hole can be seen in the upper side of the skiff (not in a "sinkble" area, per se). So, how'd it get fixed? Well, Grandmother may have "healed" the skiff as she healed the island, or the skiff may have just fixed itself (hey, it can sink itself, as we'll see with Arthur later on).
I knew something was up with that raven when it seemed to appear out of nowhere, and then landed on top of the totem pole.
Actually, during my first viewing, I had been wondering when the subject of totem poles would be addressed. From what I had heard (and that was little) they could have fit into a "inspired by gargoyles" category, and I was quite happy they showed up. I don't remember my reaction to the revelation that they didn't actually have any gargoyle connection, but thinking about it now, I'm rather glad you guys went with them being what they are in the real world, Greg. Sometimes a spade is a spade.
Natsilane/Nick fills a fairly stereotypical role, to be sure, but he is acted well, and given some nice lines and facial expressions. I also liked Grandmother, and had always wondered if she was a figure from North American myth and legend as well. Good to know that she is.
I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but I had thought Queen Florence island might actually be a real place until I read your ramble, Greg. You can tell I haven't spent much time in Canada (aside from the area around Niagra Falls).
Ah, Raven as a gargoyle. It's an excellent design, I love his red eyes and the pattern of feathers over his chest. However, there are some...glitches in his gargoyle design. The fact that he has no tail, five fingers instead of four, and even his eye color differentiate him from the "normal" gargoyle design. More, in my eyes, than his having a bird's head. I'm not nitpicking the character designers, though--and for all I know, there are gargoyles out there with similar abberations (just look at Sora's two-toed feet in BUSHIDO)--I actually think those oddities are neat. They might even be considered hints that this fellow isn't exactly what he appears to be. He also has a nice entrance: assuming the form and place of the top totem pole creature he had landed on in the morning. Anyway, I kind of figured that this was the "Raven" that Grandmother had spoken about in the previous scene. When he referred to Grandmother as an "evil sorceress" I thought that maybe this was a POV problem. Two different sides with half-true gripes fighting each other. I couldn't buy for a minute that Grandmother was evil, but I wouldn't be surprised if she were a sorceress, and Raven spoke a story that seemed to resonate with how gargoyles were treated. I thought maybe bringing peace was the ultimate goal. Of course, things turned out differently.
RE: "Elisa as sexy when feverish and vulnerable." Are you sure that's not just because she's probably topless (at least) underneath that blanket? ;D
Raven leads our gargoyle heroes to the caldera of the volcano, and introduces them to his clan. I liked their designs as well--especially the wolf and eagle ones. But I found it extremely odd that they did not come out or say anything (WARNING lights began going off in my brain there, I think). Still, I did like Goliath's initial joy over the thought of finding gargoyles living in other parts of the world.
Grandmother uses Haida (is that spelled right?) medicinal techniques to cure Elisa's fever, but I wouldn't be surprised if she used just a little magic to put Elisa to sleep (I thought I heard a "magic-like" sound effect or something). And yes, I think the "...and roots" line and Natsilane's silent reaction to it are funny. Actually, my brother has caught this episode a few times, and always gets frustrated that Natsilane doesn't believe that "roots" and such can cure a fever. As far as he's concerned *all* medicine came from plants and the like. Well, I guess my brother's not too far off the mark--I know at least aspirin comes from a plant.
Our heroes start to search for each other. Raven's "disappearing clan" was a nice little confirmation for me that this guy was not what he claimed to be.
Goliath's little phrase "Humans fear what they do not understand. And what they fear, they often seek to destroy." It's a nice, truthful little phrase. Maybe that's why it has been used in so many other places (DARKSWORD book one, for example). The funny thing is, Goliath has been telling Angela truths all along that play right into Raven's lies. Sheesh, no wonder Goliath wants to rip the Trickster a new one when he learns the truth. I'd be pissed, too.
Finding the wallet was a nice touch. Another, earlier one, was Elisa wondering if totem poles were connected with gargoyles. Grandmother knows exactly what Elisa was talking about. Like I said, nice.
Bears by themselves are scary enough, but a Trickster influenced bear? I didn't envy Elisa. Of course, Bronx takes Yogi out with little problem (and manages to have a cute moment directly afterward).
Fun line from Elisa: "Are Goliath and Angela OK? Heh, right, like you're going to answer."
I think I may have jumped out of my seat and applauded when Goliath and Elisa hugged. It was so unexpected, yet perfectly natural between them (and long overdue I thought--besides which, by this time I had concluded that G & E would kiss SOMETIME during this season, and while this was not quite that, I found it pretty close).
The characters compare notes and go off to find Grandmother, who transforms into the Thunderbird at the (music-less) cliff-hanger. By this time, I was thouroughly confused as to what was going on and went to my old standby attitude--ride the storm out and see what happens.
One of my favorite bits during the ensuing battle: Angela lands on the Thunderbird, and the chest-face wraps its tounge around her leg and throws her off. The look on Angela's face is great. Then of course there's the bit where the Thunderbird's wings pass through Raven's illusions. By now, I already knew he was the bad guy, and applauded Angela's trying to dupe him. Of course, he shows up later so it's doubtful she was successful, but it's nice that she makes an attempt.
Finally, the truth is revealed. Grandmother and Raven are kinsmen of Puck (at least figuratively) and Raven shows his other preferred form. I like how the design on his shirt is evocative of his feather pattern in gargoyle form. Another thing I liked in this scene was Grandmother's quiet joy that gargoyles still live (if they don't thrive). She's a very benevolent Oberati.
Elisa shows the gargoyles to Natsilane, quoting Shakespeare for good measure, to induce him to take up the fight. I love Angela's jump to right in front of Natsilane with the shield and weapon. I also love Nick's line: "Wait! You're asking me to fight a creature of legend...with a stick. Get real." Funny, and indicative of his world view at the same time.
Natsilane's sudden appearance at the caldera always threw me. I try to rationalize it, as usual. When he takes up the cause and armements, his clothes are magically changed and he is transported to the volcano top. At any rate, Bronx, Elisa and Grandmother arrive a bit later than Nick.
I love how Raven gives his chant here: "Totem beasts entrapped in wood, the time has come to...do some good." I guess he's not much of one for rhyming.
It's a nice battle, though nothing particularly of note except for Goliath's playing possum, and Natsilane mastering the use of his weapons.
I like Raven's last two lines in this ep and the way his voice actor (and I am kicking myself for not remembering his name) delivered them. "Your people have fled!" Nicely defiant. And "This place no longer amuses me," along with his laugh (I LOVE that laugh). Now that you mention it, Greg, it would have been a bit better for him to fly off in raven form, but the gargoyle form works alright.
And then Grandmother heals the island. I liked her hair becoming the water.
A word on the repetition (sp?): Yeah, I noticed that, too. It's a bit of an annoyance, but there are little differences. In this episode the sea monster wasn't the focus, the companions were reunited well before the end of the adventure, and Natsilane is younger than Peter Maza, chose to live where he grew up, and doesn't have the "estranged father" element that Peter had. It's not much, but the little details help prevent this from becoming too tired.
HERITAGE is mostly an average episode for me (nothing that particularly grabs me, but a nice watch), and I think it says something that even an average episode compels me to write *this much* about it.
Raven was well-played by Lawrence Bayne, btw.
And of course Natsilane was my first exposure to Gregg Rainwater, who's one of my favorite actors.
Okay here it goes. First of all I'd like to say great job!! I love the way you've done things. BRAVO!! I especially love how you took some of Shakespeare's plays, plots, and characters and put them in the show. Pure briliants!! Anywho, before I get carried away, I actually have a lot of questions, some I'm sure you've probably answered, so I'll put it in one question statement and you answer or reply as you please or rather take it as you will. I was wondering what you could tell me about Puck w/o giving away to much info. We know very little about him. Thanks for your time.
Generally, you probably know more than you think. He's a trickster and servant to Oberon.
Years ago, while following Titania, he became curious about Titania's daughter Janine and her boyfriend David. He went to work for David in the guise of Owen (an identity based on Renard's assistant). He later revealed his true self to Xanatos and offered him a choice: One wish from the Puck or a lifetime of service from Owen.
Xanatos chose Owen, a choice which impressed Puck to no end.
As Owen, he has a genuine affection for Family Xanatos and was even willing to defy Oberon to protect them.
Any other questions?
My ramble on "Heritage".
Truth to tell, I no longer recall my initial responses from when I first saw this episode (I particularly don't remember how long I expected the Avalon World Tour to last, or what my initial responses to Raven and Grandmother were), so I'll have to simply give my overall thoughts on it.
First off, I'll admit that the "legendary background" in this one was something that I was less familiar with than the use of actual myths and legends in earlier episodes of "Gargoyles". This does appear (as best as I can tell, at present) to be the first time that "Gargoyles" uses legends from a non-Western culture; up till then, the mythical background was that of the Western world (mostly the British Isles), with Macbeth, King Arthur, Puck, Avalon, etc. Here the legends were those of the Haida people, which I hadn't read as much about. I had some general knowledge of Raven, the Thunderbird, and totem poles, but that was about it. However, I did still quite like this episode.
Grandmother and Raven's introduction as specifically Children of Oberon, of course, makes it clear that Oberon's Children are worldwide, not confined to just one mythology, which was a good touch. (I noticed the pointy ears on both Grandmother and Raven in his human form, of course - one of the best-known ways of identifying someone as a mythical being). I also thought that Grandmother and Raven worked well in their respective roles - Raven, especially, who (as a trickster) got some of the best lines. (As generally is the case with tricksters). Such as "Oh, well, better make sure it's an uneven fight" or, in his big "sour grapes" moment, "This place no longer amuses me."
I agree with you about Natsilane's facial expression after Grandmother's roots line being priceless; it's one of the big LOL moments in "Gargoyles" for me. (Another one is coming up in "Kingdom", in fact - but I'll mention that one when we get to that, which'll clearly be soon).
Of course, since you released your "Gargoyles 2198" overview, we now know what some of your future plans for the events in this episode were. I still find it interesting that Queen Florence Island would indeed wind up being the home of a new gargoyle clan, converting Raven's lie into the truth (in a way). I wonder if anybody in 2188 was conscious of that (all of the original participants in that episode - except for Grandmother and Raven, of course - would obviously be long since gone, but their descendants - and we do know that both the Manhattan clan and Natsilane have descendants around in 2198 - might have preserved the story of that event).
I also like the exchange between Goliath and Angela over Raven's story, including Goliath's comments about how humans fear and hate gargoyles in spite of the fact that gargoyles protect them (and why), and yet how gargoyles still have the duty to look after their protectorate (something that he certainly lives up to himself, in his refusal to abandon Manhattan even when it becomes difficult for gargoyles to live safely in). So even an episode where the "new gargoyles" turn out to be impostors tells us more about gargoyles, which is quite a nice touch.
By the way, I did some general research on the legendary figures in this episode, and found out that the Thunderbird appears in some legends as a "benevolent teacher-figure", which does fit in quite nicely with it being one of the creatures that Grandmother shape-shifts into.
I also agree that it's a lovely moment when Goliath and Elisa hug just after the bear gets driven off (I also get a kick out of the scene where Bronx sticks his head out of the bush after driving the bear away).
It does all work fairly well, I think. I particularly like the look of Thunderbird.
Will there ever be a new Gargoyles television series? Ever?
I hope so.
Im your biggest fan of garoyles i watched every show sicne it came out till now i know everything about the gargoyles please make another show of gargoyles and let me join the clan i would be horoned if you would thank you for taking your time to read this
You're welcome. And if I can, I will...
Where was Fox when she got the tatoo(tattoo, i can't spell at the moment) over her eye? I'm just a stinker for rephrasing questions in ways that are harder to give a Smart Assed response to. I'm the one that killed the "marks on hardwood floors" question.
Why do you dare me?
"Where was Fox when she got the ... tattoo ... over her eye? "
In a good personal space.