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Had a good time at the Gargoyles Adult Chatroom the other day, and it got me thinking. Someone named VP (or VJ?) made the point that everything I've done after, well, "The Journey" I guess, is fanfiction. At first, I misunderstood him. For example, I thought he was confusing Katana with Sata. But he made it clear, that he meant the quote-unquote Master Plan. My initial reaction was to balk.
But I think he's got a point.
Some of this stuff was completed while I was still on the Disney Payroll in late '95, early '96, but none of it's canon in my mind. Canon, as far as I'm concerned only includes the 66 episodes running from "Awakening, Part One" through "The Journey". The other 12 Goliath Chronicles are debatable. Because the show ISN'T on the air, I think I personally am free NOT to regard them as canon. If and/or when the show does get going again in some shape or form, then a more definitive decision will have to be made at that point about those additional 12 stories.
But putting Goliath Chronicles (and Marvel Comics and Disney Adventures, etc.) aside for the moment, that still leaves us with what to do about things like:
--"Once Upon a Time There Were Three Brothers..."
--Various ASK GREG and other revelations.
--The Spin-Offs: DARK AGES, GARGOYLES 2158, TIMEDANCER, PENDRAGON, THE NEW OLYMPIANS, BAD GUYS
--My further plans for the GARGOYLES main series itself.
Calling the work I've done on any of the above "fanfic" rankles at first, but that's largely a problem of semantics. It certainly isn't canon. At this point, legally, I have no more connection to the GARGOYLES property than any of you do. Plus, as I've said many times before, I won't be held to any of it. Hell, for all you know everything I've revealed is just one big snow-job to keep you from guessing my real plans. (It's not, but it might have been smarter of me if it was.)
I do think I'm something of an authority on the subject of Gargoyles. And I also think that if the show is ever brought back, the PTB at Disney would be likely (at least given current management) to come to me first to try and revive it. Plus I'm actively working on getting the show revived, again "in some shape or form".
But that doesn't change anything regarding the question of canon.
As many of you know, I've been working on a major revision of 2158. This is taking me longer than I thought, because -- and I shouldn't have been surprised by this, but -- it's effecting the ENTIRE chronology of the series. In addition to changing the year (and thus the title) of GARGOYLES 2158, I've already been forced to go back and make adjustments to both DARK AGES and "Once Upon A Time...Three Brothers". I now know that the last posted chapter of three brothers wound up being the last chapter of that little story period. Because "3Bros" really wound up being just a prologue to DARK AGES. And where "3Bros" leaves off is in fact right at the beginning of where DARK AGES begins.
The 2158 revamp has also necessitated minor changes in TimeDancer. And has clarified my thinking on Pendragon and Bad Guys as well.
[Thankfully, none of it has effected the Clan Contest. We should still be able to put that monster to bed soon.]
All this flux has made it difficult for me to keep certain details clear in my head. For example, at that Friday 9/1/00 chat, I revealed that Hudson had two biological children, Hyppolyta and Broadway. That was an error. Hudson had THREE biological children. (I got my dates mixed up.)
I'm hoping that the work I'm doing now will clean a lot of stuff up. I'm hoping that clarity (and my personal certainty) will return. But this flux isn't necessarily a bad thing. I know I screwed up at least a few times (Garg Universe-wise) within the 66 episodes. I tried to keep those mistakes to a minimum, but they happened. I'd like to avoid making more mistakes, even here at ASK GREG. I definitely feel like I'm getting closer to the "true" Gargoyles Universe, if that's possible and/or makes any sense.
Updates on all this should come over the next ten months. But I'm targeting Gathering 2001 for completion. I'm hoping to be able to make some big announcements there. So bear with me.
But to be fair to VP, he was right. I wouldn't call what I do "fanfiction". For starters, none of it is in the form of fiction. And so calling it that may be giving it TOO MUCH credit. But at the moment, I have no more claim to canon than anyone.
Rather, I'd say that if you like the stories I did come up with on the original 66, and think you might enjoy what I'd do next -- the way you might enjoy what Christine Morgan or Christi Smith Hayden or TGS does next -- than stay tuned. I've got more to tell you and more to reveal by and by.
If the humans of (time of Future Gargoyle series) know 'a lot' about the origins of the New Olympians, do they know that the fae are real?
But again, I'd prefer if everyone held off asking anymore questions about what WAS Gargoyles 2158 until I make the announcement regarding it's revamping. Watch for it at this site.
Hey! Well, I heard somewhere(I have no idea where.) that Gargoyles are going to be played on the regular Disney channel sometime in Septemeber. Do you know anything about this?? Also, I've been hearing about a Gargoyles 2158..something. I have no clue what that's about, but I'm sure you do. What is it?? Thanks for you time.
News to me.
Well, if you want to read about Gargoyles 2158. Try checking out the ASK GREG Gargoyles 2158 Archive. Or you can wait for the revamped, retitled version, which I'm working on now.
Just a quick question about Gargoyles 2158. I keep hearing 23rd century mentioned with it. If I'm not mistaken, isn't 2158 in the 22nd century? Thanks for clearing it up.
Yes, 2158 is in the 22nd century, but I'm revamping the series, pushing it further into the future.
Hopefully, by the time you get this, the revamp will be completed:
1) Will there be any main individual Space-Spawn character in the Future Gargoyles series?
2) If so, will there be more than one?
3) Are they neccesarily all villains?
Nope. I'll make an announcement.
You've said that you're going to reformulate your G:2157 idea. Since I'm a fan of the Broadway/Angela relationship, I was wondering if they're children were going to be altered at all. (Ex, different names, number of kids, so on and so forth.)
No. I said I'm revamping my G2158 idea.
I won't comment 'til I'm done.
Would the Matrix still be functional by the time of Future Gargoyles series?
By the time you get this, I hoped you've done the reworking thing of the Future Gargoyles series(since it now seems edgy to call it 2158)
So, again: how would Avalon and/or the fae and whoever rules the fae by that time react to the Space-Spawn war?
Haven't finished yet. Working on it daily.
I'll make an announcement here when it's ready. How about we suspend all 2158/future questions until then?
For starters I love the show and I was deeply saddened when it was canceled.My question is that you mentioned that one Zafiro's descendants would play a role in 2158.
1)Who exactly would his/her parents be?
2)Will any other descendants of clans from the world tour play a part?
3)Who exactly is/was Zafiro's mate?
How do Demona and Macbeth feel about each other by 2158?
Those early documents you posted on the show are VERY appreciated. I found myself quite impressed, actually, with the original, fledging premise, wherein Goliath is an artificial construct brought to life, etc. Of course what we wound up getting was far superior, but that much more simpler premise has its own charm.
Anyway, on to my question. In regards to 2158, you wrote that there would be two storylines (Homefront and Behind Enemy Lines) and the cast would be divided between them. Is this pre-revamp or post-revamp, or is this something that's not being changed?
Probably the latter. But in the immortal words of Radar O'Reilly: "Wait for it..."
What would the Gargoyle population be by 2158?
AWAIT THE REVAMP. (AND IT WON'T MUCH MATTER, BECAUSE G2158 is no longer the key year.)
You said that the Gargoyles living in the year 2158 are barley tolarated and evils like the Illuminati society and he Quarrymen would still be around. For example the Klu Klux Klan is still around today but KKK attacks on visible minorities is extremly rare or almost never happen. would Quarrymen attacks on Gargoyles be rare or common in 2158?
What is the environmental state of Earth by 2158?
Ask me after the revamp.
Would any descendants of the London clan be major charaecters in 2158? For that matter, would any descendants of any of the clans we've seen so far be major characters?
Working on a revamp now. Ask me again in a few weeks.
I think this was also lost in the queue, so
1) What would happen to Oberon when Mab returns?
2) Would Mab be around by 2158?
3) What would happen to Mab by 2158?
4) At what level of maturity would Oberon and Titania's children be by 2158?
1. He will not go quietly.
2. Can't say.
3. Can't say.
4. Can't say.
How much by 2158 does the human world know about the truth of the New Olympians' origins?
I've tried to ask this question before, but I guess it got wiped in some glitch. Gotta love these new fandangled machines, eh?
My question: Will Demona reform before or after...
1) Angela's death?
2) Goliath's death?
3) The Space Spawn attack?
4) Clan Manhattan's eggs hatch?
5) Gargoyles declared as endangered species?
6) Pigs fly?
Who says she reforms?
I said she starts to fight on the side of the angels. There's a difference.
Would Samson's two older siblings Artus and Gwenyvere (sp?) be in G2158?
You're question cannot currently be answered, because I'm changing the century when the series is set, and changing the relationships, etc.
You'll just have to wait for me to finish. Sorry.
(And stop asking for now folks, it's just taking time away from me working on the revamp.)
1)In 2158 would there be any television programmes or channels made for gargoyles, seeing as they are a 'protected
minority' . 2)Would there be any gargoyle actors/esses in on TV in 2158
1. Made for?
2. Probably. Yeah. Of course, 2158 is no longer a significant date. I'm still working on the revamp. Hold tight.
1) If and when you get to do tose Gargoyle Episodes and Spinoffs do you plan to do crossovers like the following:
2) Would you still include the Previously On Gargoyles segments when necessary?
1. 2158(revised) and TimeDancer, definitely.
Dark Ages and TimeDancer, probably.
Pendragon/Bad Guys. Probably, eventually.
Bad Guys/Gargoyles. Definitely.
New Olympians/Gargoyles. Definitely.
New Olympians/Pendragon/Bad Guys - Eventually.
Would there have been any main individual Space-Spawn character in Gargoyles 2158?
Ask me again after the revamp is completed.
How would Avalon and/or the fae react to the Space-Spawn war of 2158?
Well, it's not in 2158 anymore. This is a fair question, but as I'm in a rethink on the whole concept at this time, you'll have to ask me again later.
1. I don't know where I got the idea, but is Ophelia(sp?) in the Manhatten clan in 2158?
2. If not then where does she reside?
3. By 2158 would some new gargoyles have joined the Manhatten clan(other than Demona, Brooklyn, Katana, their kids)?
4. I know you won't answer this, but who would some of those new gargoyles be?
5. How much of Gargoyles 2158 have you actually thought out completely?
1. I don't know where you got that idea either.
2. Probably Avalon, assuming she's still alive.
3. Yes. Though I'm not confirming your list by implication.
5. I HAD thought out quite a bit. But some of it wasn't jelling for me, so I've recently started from scratch on the concept. I haven't finished reworking it. Some things will stay the same. A character named Samson is still the lead. And Brooklyn still timedances into the cast. But other stuff may alter quite a bit. Among other things, I'm almost definitely changing the year (and thus the title) of the show. More to come...
I was very intrigued by that little revelation of yours about Lexington going into business with an unexpected partner. I hope that you get to tell that story some day if "Gargoyles" gets revived. I'd certainly enjoy seeing how Goliath would respond to Lex entering the business world - and Xanatos's response, for that matter. (Although we know already that Lex isn't the first gargoyle to do this sort of thing - given Demona and Thailog's foundation of Nightstone, and maybe Leo and Una's shop in London to boot).
It's more intriguing then you know and will have ramifications that will extend beyond 2158.
1) What will be the reason(s) why Broadway and Angela name their children after Arthur and Gwenivere? 2) Why do they name their third child Samson? 3) Will Lex be anyone's biological father? 4) Will Samson? 5) Will Bronx?
1. There are many reasons. One that I'm happy to reveal is that after Broadway's experience in "Lighthouse" and Angela's experience on "Avalon", they're both fans.
2. This may get reworked in the revised Gargoyles 2158. As soon as I have the new "future history" nailed down, I'll make a general announcement.
3. I'm not telling.
4. I'm not telling.
You mentioned that by 2158, gargoyles would be regarded as a "protected minority". This implies that they've been recognized as a sentient species and have been given rights of some kind. I was wondering what the status of artificially intelligent beings might be at this time, and if it's even been addressed (do they have any rights at all?).
Largely the issue will not have been dealt with yet.
Would Manhattan (or whatever it might be called in the future) still be the main stage for "Gargoyles 2158", as it was for the original series?
A stage. But the series would be significantly more global, more mobile.
And there would be two main stories going on:
1. The Homefront.
2. Behind Enemy Lines.
With the main cast quickly dividing into two groups.
By 2158, would any gargoyles have been converted to human religions? If so, how many, roughly? And to which religions in particular?
I'm sure some. But not many.
In the year 2158 A.D., what are Demona's thoughts/regrets about her treatment towards Goliath and his legacy upon the relationships between humans and gargoyles?
Ask me again after I've finished my reworking of the concept.
That Nyrtleka person is right to say I love the Guatemalan gargoyles. Zafiro's my favorite in the whole series!
1. If, say, GARGOYLES is revived, would the garg clans from the Avalon World Tour (Guatemalan in particular;) appear again?
2. Did you have any other plans for the Guatemalan gargs? I'd love to see Zafiro and gang again.
1. Yes. For starters they needed to recover the Sun Amulet.
2. Yes. In particular, a descendant of Zafiro's (also named Zafiro because of the Sapphire pendant he wears) is likely to be a major character in my revamping of GARGOYLES 2158.
Again, I gave myself hours to try and get through April. And I failed. Now, I'm beat. I'll try and finish off that month soon.
And now the big SHOCKING announcement. I've been giving a lot of thought lately to GARGOYLES 2158. And I may be doing a significant reworking of the idea. For starters, I'm no longer sure I want to set the events I have in mind for the series in 2158. So the first thing that may change is the title. More info to come, once I nail some thoughts down. (And since I don't have any kind of deadline, it could take me a while.)
My questions are on the London gargoyles.
1. Are Una and Griff mates? In "M.I.A.", Una seemed to be in love with him. If they ever were mates, will they ever have eggs of their own?
2. Do any London gargoyles appear in Gargoyles: 2185?
I liked those guys, and would like to see more of them.
1. No. Griff disappeared before they could mate. Una eventually mated with Leo.
2. Eventually, I'm sure we'd meet some London Gargs in 2158. (Hell, who knows who would be in the cast by 2185?)
The thing that most intrigues me about "Gargoyles 2158" is the element of what gargoyle/human relations would be like in that period. In the present day, of course, the big problem for gargoyle/human relations will be that the bulk of humanity believe gargoyles to be simply wild beasts or demons rather than sentient beings, and so hunt them down. But you've indicated that by 2158, gargoyles are now realized to be sentient, have become tolerated (though not altogether accepted), and now have a "Protected Minority" status. With that in mind, I'd like to ask a few questions about life for gargoyles in 2158 (if the answers vary for individual clans, please pick the one that matches life for the Manhattan clan in 2158):
1. In 2158, are gargoyle clans subject to human laws, or are they still self-governing?
2. Do they hold human citizenship, with the rights and duties that come with it (i.e., voting rights, paying taxes, jury duty, etc.)?
3. What sort of relationship in general do the gargoyles have with the police in terms of their patrolling their protectorate? As in, how do the authorities look upon the gargoyles' protection work against criminals, on the whole?
4. Are gargoyle hatchlings still taught by the adult members of the clan, or do they have to go to human schools?
2. Some of the above, not all.
3. It is sometimes a source of conflict. Though not everywhere.
4. Human schools aren't practical, as most human children go to school during the day.
I have a few questions, which concern my favourite gargoyle/human relationship (and the only gargoyle/human relationship I know about). Now down to the questions:
1) When you say that, the Goliath and Elisa's "wedding", will be way, way down the line, do you mean before 2008 or after 2008?
2)Would any of Goliath and Elisa's kids or grankids, be alive in 2158? (When I first heard that Samson would be Goliath's grandson, I thought he was Elisa's granson aswell. Just thought I'd let you know.)
3)Would their kids even live as long as gargoyles or as long as humans?
1. I don't know the exact date. Gradual progression. I'd think before 2008 however.
2. No, Samson isn't Elisa's blood grandson, though in human terms he would be her step-grandson, and in garg terms you could certainly call her one of his rookery grandmothers. As for any other children of "the Marriage of Goliath & Elisa", I'd like to keep that a secret for a bit longer.
3. Can't say without giving too much away.
Hello I'm a really big fan of Gargoyles, I watch the show all the time.
Well here's my Q.
Is there anywhere on the web that your spin-offs are in print, or are they only at the gatherings?
Pretty much only at the Gathering. But you can get a lot of info on them by checking the following ASK GREG archives...
What would Demona be like reformed wise by 2075?
Since this questions seems to have been lost, I'll ask it again-
What is the significance of choosing the year 2158 as the time for the future Gargoyles series? That is, why did you choose it?
I have my reasons.
But one of them should be obvious, if you understand Gargoyle birth cycles.
(Also, I wanted/needed to get far enough into the future that most of our regulars would be dead, whether in battle or by natural causes or whatever. Because I didn't want to spoil stories set in the present by being forced to reveal what and/or where the characters were in the future.)
It's interesting. Originally, all I planned to say was, "I have my reasons."
I know you have addressed this a lot..but I have read your posts on it and im still confused..not cuz your posts were vage but cuz my knowledge of math..is ..well lets say limited.
My question is on Broadway's and Angela's children. To the best of my knowleged they have 3 right, the middle child is the female and the youngest is Sampson who becomes leader. Can you explain to me how old approx. is Sampson when he becomes leader and in what order does this happen? IE. Hudson, Goliath, Brooklyn, ...then RIGHT to Sampson? That seems to me that he'd be too young..or that Brooklyn or Goliath would be getting on but im SO bad at this stuff:P can you help me??
And I just wanted to say that you are doing an awsome job here! Not too meny ppl would take so much time to talk to their fandom, I think thats just really cool of you!:D
And it's not a math question really. It's an events question. You make a few assumptions that don't necessarily happen. But at any rate, it's not that simple. In my current thinking, which has changed quite a bit since 1996, Samson becomes leader due to circumstances beyond his control.
You had said that you planned to add a female (and human) love interest for Owen... In what time-period would we have seen her? Gargoyles-2158 or the "present" series?
Most likely the present. But my plans might have changed if the present series never got picked up and 2158 did. Nothing's final 'til its canon.
1.Lisa wrote "who will be leader of the wyvern clan in 2158?" you answered "define wyvern clan" so my question is the same as hers and in defintion of the Wyvern clan it is the clan that lives atop the eyrie building, the descendants of Goliaths clan.
I'm not sure. Samson, eventually.
1.Would any members of the Pack still be alive in 2158?
Hi mr. Weisman.
I read in the archives that you wouldn't mind a Gargoyles show in CGI. I feel that CGI would not be right for Gargoyles. Not because it would be impossible to make, but I notice that CGI shows tend to have few characters. There's also a lot of generated characters looking close to one and another, like the Apes in Starship Troopers who look alot alike save for their faces, nametag, size.
A show like Gargoyles have many characters with different shape, size, color, etc. Wouldn't that be costly or long to create?
I'd like to have your view on this one, thank you in advance.
The limitations in CGI are no more severe than in cel animation; they are simply different. And most can be overcome with proper lead time and development.
Gargoyles, is, in many ways an ideal CGI show. Doesn't mean it might not be better in cel. But I think it could work. Size, color, shape, etc. none of that is a problem. Hair is a problem. That would take some work. Clothes are a problem. Loinclothes would take some work. But for GARGOYLES 2158, it could be a whole new world in CGI.
Hi Greg! :)
I love "Gargoyles" (obviously) and I was sad that they cancelled it. Ever since I saw "Awakenings" Part 1 (I was there the first time it aired and fell in love instantly!), everything caught me. The betrayal was stunning, the art fantastic, the storyline just plain magnificent! I keep high hopes that Disney gets off it's butt and start working with your show or else to sell it, or better yet continue it with YOU on the crew. Sorry, I've been a Garg fanatic ever since I was nine so thanks for taking your time, because a lot of people, including me, appreciate it. ^_^
Sorry if these sound dumb...
In the spin-off for GARGOYLES 2158, you said that Timedancing Brooklyn will star along with Demona, Samson, and a few others. Wouldn't Timedancing Brooklyn meet his older self (the Brooklyn that has become 214 years old) in this year?
(Second question) In the year 2158, will the older Brooklyn even be in Manhattan?
By 2158, Brooklyn would be dead, one way or another. (Do the math.)
A couple of questions about the Quarrymen.
1. What is the relationship between them and the authorities in New York? While obviously the local government figures in Manhattan don't know that the gargoyles are actually a race, and therefore wouldn't interpret the Quarrymen as a hate group, there is the fact that these people could be viewed as vigilantes, are armed with potentially dangerous high-tech weaponry, and their leader is clearly the unstable sort. Would the New York authorities be willing to tolerate them?
2. You mentioned that the Quarrymen would still be around in 2158. What sort of legal status do they have by then? Would they have become more of a criminal organization, like the Pack, by that time, outside the law and the mainstream public, or would they have some fleeting legitimacy left?
1. Not Matt.
2. Legal status? Again, I have always seen them as a KKK parallel. It never ever quite goes away.
Some 'Gargoyles 2158' questions:
1. Do any of three races mainly involved in the galactic war have knowledge of magic's existence? Would they consider it to be superstition (like most humans)? Would they know it exists and works, but not how (like the protagonists of the series)? Would they have researched it and elevated it to the level of science?
In short, what's their attitude towards magic?
2. Is the third species you spoke of allied to Nokkar's race? To the space-spawn? None of the above?
3. Is there a specific point of dispute between the warring sides, or is it simply a war of aggression, one wanting to conquer all, and the other side opposing it?
1. Initially, I wouldn't be dealing with Alien Magic. It's a pretty sophisticated concept. Eventually, I would have enjoyed bringing it in. As for their beliefs, I think Owen said it best: "Energy is Energy." Or to the Space-Spawn, "Power is power."
2. It's complicated.
3. Ditto. Though initially vis-a-vis Earth in 2158 it will play as a territory grab.
Is there an equivalent crime faction to Dracon's organisation in 2158? If so, are any relatives of existing people still operating? Dracons had 'owned' Manhattan's crime scene for three generations (I think that was the quote, I suppose it might have been more), so would they go forward?
How large would the clan be by 2158?
1,if you had to pick just one of the gargoyles proposed spin-offs which would you have chosen to make?
Well, I got furthest along on BAD GUYS, so I had more ideas clear in my head. So that would be a natural. And I've done quite a bit of thinking recently on G2158.
But honestly, you're question is like asking me to pick between my kids. I'd love to do any or all.
by 2158 you said that gargoyles would have been accepted what would have happened to jon castaway and the qaurreymen?
I didn't say accepted. Perhaps tolerated would be a better word. The Quarrymen would still exist. Castaway himself would be long dead.