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RIPOSTES 2006-08 (Aug)

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Blaise writes...

THE HOUND OF ULSTER

At last!! I say that both because it's a new ramble, and I'm finally able to add my own. I'll play catch up with your other additions over the weekend.

When I first saw this episode, both the "Previously on" segment and the title indicated that Bronx would get some exposure. I wasn't sure HOW since there's only so much you can do with a dog (or even a dog-like beast) without giving them some anthropomorphic qualities. Consequently, I think it makes since that Rory Dugan became the protagonist.
And yet, that in itself is unique. Here we have a non-regular being the main character of the episode--hightlighted with that wonderful "hero-shot" where the camera circles around Rory's face (well done bit of animation, that). I mean, I don't know of too many other series that do that (well, maybe there were some old "Batman: TAS" episodes that seemed to focus more on the villains, but they're the VILLAINS!)
I love Molly's character design--the hair-style, the eyes, the three belts (in technicolor!) around her waist.
Rory's vision of Crom Cruoch really threw me the first time I saw it. Then I completely forgot about it until the Banshee transformed at the end.

BTW, time out here to say kudos to the voice work all around. Colm Meaney's (sp?) guest turn was great. Scott Cleverdon did excellent work (and HE added the battle cry?! I love that thing!). And as for Sheena Easton, hey do I really need to say anything?
Loved the Banshee's keening! I have to wonder though...it seems to me that gargoyles have a stronger sense of hearing than humans, yet the Banshee's cry is apparantly more fatal to humans.

Anyway, I was a little surprised at our heroes sinking into the bog right off. Very tense the first time you see it, and a nice little character bit for Goliath--he turns from Elisa to try and save his daughter, but can't and turns back to find Elisa has already sunk beneath the surface. For a guy so big on protecting his loved ones that must have been a truly hellish moment.

But Bronx escapes and we get our first glimpse of the Banshee.

Rory's discussion with his Dad is interesting to me, mostly in how pessimistic and cynical Rory acts. One line of his that I always like (even if I don't agree with it): "There are no heroes anymore! Only villains! And they've got us all beat." Sometimes it's very easy to think that.

Our main heroes wake up trapped in the Cairn, and Goliath says that "a whole clan of gargoyles could not batter down these walls." That line always struck me for some reason.
A bit disconcerting that Elisa's muddy in this scene and clean in the next, but "meh".
And although Cuchullan's remains would have been nice, I don't really miss it (unlike the whole Anubis thing). Besides, how much of an unmummified corpse would be left after 2,000 years?

Rory meets Bronx and between the pooch's outlandish appearance and the legends of his father, Rory reacts in a perfectly reasonable way...he runs like hell. And falls off a cliff (looking at it from the wide shot, I can't help but think it's a miracle he survived).

BTW, the little memo you posted finally clears up why Bronx singled out Rory--the Banshee's scent. Yet Bronx can still sense that Rory's not an enemy.

The Banshee talks with our "main heroes." I can never stop noticing her rather exaggerated gestures. She must be a bit of a drama queen. I like her "ghost" form, though.
The Banshee does have that one character trait (which Todd has already mentioned) that annoys me to no end: she does not even consider the possibility that her prisoners might be telling the truth. And as you pointed out she could have just mesmerized it out of them (no fuss, no muss), which makes her behavior even more inexcusable.

After the Banshee hears Bronx and splits, and Angela says that Bronx will save them (she's got more faith in her pooch than I've ever had in any of mine, I'll admit), the camera starts to briefly zoom in before cutting to the next scene. I'm always wondering what got cut, if anything.

When Molly transformed into the Banshee...I figured they were both one and the same. At least, until Molly appeared in Rory's house the next day and said she'd go with him to the Cairn because she loved him. THAT cast some doubt in my mind.

"Be still little mortal and come quietly with me, into the dark." That line still sends my dirty little mind reeling with possibilities. ;-)

I like Mr. Dugan's attitude towards his son's visions: he may not entirely believe in them, but he's not about to go tempting fate in regards to them, either.

A little animation bit I only really started noticing after you mentioned exploring more of the relationship between Rory and Molly--when Rory strides down the hill towards the Cairn, Molly gets a sad/worried look on her face. Rory isn't looking at her so she doesn't have to act, but it's still there. It's more than just avoiding an old enemy that makes her want to keep Rory in the dark.

I love the voice acting in the Cairn--as the two characters talk, a bit more of each's "other" starts to creep into their speech.
I love the whole "Gae Bolga" scene.

"Skills may rust indeed, but true friendship stays bright." Y'know, because of the accent, I didn't understand what he was actually saying there for YEARS!

I always noticed how you guys had Goliath and Angela, the usual heavy hitters, get knocked away by Crom Cruach the instant they try to join the battle. Makes sense--this was Rory and Bronx's show!

"And there's no kind of training schemes for this job, I'll wager." Nope, and no pay either! Just ask Spider-man!
On the "Thor" subject, I never knew that much about Thor (either comic or mythology) until a bit after GARGOYLES, so for me this was fairly fresh.

Dog's (or gargoyle beasts) can look smug! I've seen it myself!

RANDOM THOUGHTS:
I always thought the "Previously on" segment for this episode felt awkward towards its end--your ramble helps clear that up.

One thing that struck me this time out was the Banshee's character design, especially in the face. It can move from beautiful to rather corpse-like.

Yes Cuchullan was the "Hound of Ulster," but only because he killed the original hound and vowed to act in its place until a new one was raised. Who's to say these hounds weren't gargoyle beasts?

Great ramble!

Greg responds...

Those "Hounds" were indeed Gargoyle Beasts in the Gargoyles Universe, and as I've learned more about the legend SINCE doing the episode, it seems to me that as Cu Chullain was replacing the "Hound" he killed, he would also be raising and training a new "Hound" to eventually take his place. That, to his mind, was the Hound of Ulster that he recognized in Bronx.

Or that's my current theory anyway.

Response recorded on August 28, 2006

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Todd Jensen writes...

One other thing about "Mark of the Panther" that I forgot to mention: I find it somehow amusing and appropriate that Elisa and Diane Maza would have a run-in with humans magically transformed into panthers in light of how a member of their family had already been turned into a panther-of-a-sort (though through science rather than through magic).

Greg responds...

So you caught that. Good.

Response recorded on August 25, 2006

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Ra writes...

I was wondering, I have been looking around for my answer, and I couldn't find but ONE part of it.
I'm simply wondering if you could post the magic spells that are spoken in Latin here. I'd love to see them. Like when Magus turns the clan into stone, or the spell to part the mists into the Isle of Avalon etc. The only one I could find in this page was the spell to make the Phoenix Gate work.

"Deflagrate muri tempi et intervalia!" Which means, "Burn down the walls of time and space!"

Thank you for your time.

Greg responds...

I can't remember off the top of my head all the spells we used, and I'm not going to go script by script through 65 scripts to find them all...

But here are the two you specified...

Dormiatis dum castellum super nubes ascendant.

and

Vocate venti fortunate,
Ex ricae Oberonis,
Et hic navis frugum regate,
Ad orae Avalonis.

Response recorded on August 25, 2006

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michael coco writes...

hey greg i am a big fan of the gargoyles i watch every chance i get and i was wondering (it would be awesome)if there is going to be a live action movie or if there is what is the progress of it?

Greg responds...

As I've stated before, the live-action movie which Touchstone Pictures (a division of Disney) had in script development for years as been shelved. No progress to report.

Response recorded on August 25, 2006

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Richard von Heinz writes...

1) Is Nokkar the Sentinel aware of the cloaked island of New Olympus or has New Olympian technology being able to fool the technology developed by his kind?

2) How did the New Olympians manage to create such advanced technology years ahead of human technology when they had a much smaller population and less resources for research and development when in regard human civilizations have been inventing continuously. For example even through humanity was in the Dark Age in Western Europe, people were still developing stuff in the MidEast and the Far East.

So in short order how did the New Olympians get so ahead? Did they just bypass or skip some of the technologies that humanity has or were they just really brillant at inventing stuff.

Greg responds...

1. Well, without confirming whether or not Nokkar COULD have seen through their cloak, I think the short answer is that he DIDN'T see through it. Had no reason to look. He's looking outward for an external attack. That's where his sensors are aimed.

2. Continuity helps. A few brilliant individuals who are able to build upon the work of their predecessors without interference and are given the resources can do amazing things in very few generations. Scattered advancement (two steps forward, one step back) across continents with little or no communication doesn't encourage speed of development. I also think an open mind helps too. Who believed that a man could fly in the so-called real world? A few people certainly, but until the Wright Brothers proved it, not the masses. On New Olympus, lots of their citizens can already fly. So making the leap to creating a chariot to accomidate those without wings or other flight capabilities isn't quite as difficult.

Response recorded on August 24, 2006

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Richard von Heinz writes...

1) Why did the producers of the show go with iron as the general weakness for Oberon's Children when many of them like Raven, Odin or Anubis were figures from mythologies that didn't see iron as a sort of "god kryptonite". In fact the Fenris wolf from norse mythology was able to snap his iron chains and had to be finally chained with a magical one and many of the gods and demons of the Far East didn't seem to have a problem with iron.

2)In relation to the first question why was Oberon the king and lord of the third race that included such beings as Odin and possibly Zeus and other godhead when in the traditional stories he was just a minor king of the fairies or elves?

In general I'm just rather curious why you put so many of the qualities found in fairies and elves such as Oberon and the iron weakness onto mythological figures such as Odin, Coyote or Anasi which in the end from my point of view kind of diminishes the gods.

Greg responds...

1) When combining so many mythologies, certain choices have to be made. Since we were putting a traditional "fairy" figure like Oberon at the top of our feudal pyramid, using iron made sense. I understand your objection, even sympathize with it, but I also don't regret our decision.

2) Well, a short answer is that we wanted to diminish the gods a bit... or put another way, we wanted to create a unifying system for them all. A feudal system. Oberon and Titania got priority, because in general SHAKESPEARE got priority. Titania, as far as I know, is not a traditional figure but an invention of ol' Will's. I've always freely admitted to being a Shakespeare fanatic, so his characters, including Macbeth, Oberon, Titania, Puck, the Weird Sisters, etc. were always going to have featured roles in this series. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference, and I was the guy in charge. That doesn't make me RIGHT in some transcendent sense, just means that I had the right to create the universe I wanted to play in. So I did.

Response recorded on August 24, 2006

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Todd Jensen writes...

Just so that I've gotten this straight - so in the very first outline for "Mark of the Panther", it was were-jaguars rather than were-panthers? I'm glad that that was changed; since jaguars live in South America rather than Africa, it'd be pretty strange seeing one (ordinary or were) showing up in Nigeria.

Greg responds...

Yep, and that's why the change was made of course. We got the beast wrong. So we fixed it.

Response recorded on August 23, 2006

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Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the ramble on "Mark of the Panther". (Boy, we're really coming along well with the rambles now! Isn't it great?) Here are my thoughts on it.

One of the moments that still most stands out to me is the legend of the Panther Queen that was incorporated into the story; the change of animation to set the old tale apart from the present-day action was a particular delight for me. (Although I hadn't even thought until you mentioned it that somebody tuning into "Gargoyles" during this story could have mistakenly believed that they were watching a different television program.)

I've read a little about Anansi before the series came out, though I'm no expert upon him. One thing that I had learned about him, which I think that the episode captures accurately, is that his tricks and schemes had a tendency to backfire upon him - and this is what happens in both the Panther Queen story and the main action. In the Panther Queen story, Anansi, indignant about having to turn the Panther Queen's son into a panther, banishes all the humans from Karadigi - and then realizes too late that he's just sacked his entire hunting force, so who's going to bring him food now? And in the present day, Anansi's getting Fara Maku to hunt for him worked too well - he gorged himself to such an extent that, once out of his web, he was too fat and unwieldy to fight the gargoyles effectively.

Diane's helping to resolve satisfactorally the problem of Goliath's difficulty in acknowledging Angela as his daughter reminds me of something that you once said about why they generally leave mothers out of Disney movies: the mother, if she was there, could have found a solution to the problem so quickly that there'd be barely any story. And once Elisa's mother shows up, she does indeed help solve the Goliath-Angela problem (though without preventing there from being a story).

And I picked up (by the last time that I saw this episode, a few months ago - I regularly watch my "Gargoyles" tapes every summer) on the link between Diane telling Fara Maku about his desire to keep Tea by his side "That's not love; that's selfishness" and her telling Elisa at the end that love is about letting go.

The moment that you mentioned about Diane telling Goliath with a certain indignant dignity "I don't need protection" and Goliath saying "Of course" always amused me - and I found myself also thinking of "mother-in-law" towards Diane at that moment.

The first time that I saw this episode, I thought that Anansi had indeed been slain at the end, though "The Gathering Part One" proved me wrong on that. And, truth to tell, I'm kind of glad that the Children of Oberon are so difficult to kill and that we haven't had any genuine deaths among them as yet in the series. After all, they are (or the bulk of them are) traditional figures in humanity's own myths and legends, part of our cultural heritage. Obviously, a genuine death for Anansi wouldn't result in everyone forgetting the tales about him, but still, his passing, or the passing of any other member of the Third Race, would somehow (to me, at least) diminish the "tapestry of story" that we have gained from them. (When we get to "The Gathering Part Two", I'll mention how Oberon's sentence upon Puck has a similar, if not as strong, impact upon me.)

Thanks also for telling us about how Bronx somehow reminded you and your family of Norman again. (I wonder now how the Cagney scenes in "Gargoyles" would have affected me if I'd seen any of them between the time that my old cat Merlin passed on, two months ago, and the time that I adopted my new kitten Obie.) Norman sounds like he must truly have been quite a dog.

Greg responds...

Norman was indeed quite a dog. I miss him still. We have two new old dogs now, Sammi & Abraham and we still have our cat Bigtime, but we recently lost our cat Iggy during a power outage. And when I say "lost" I mean that literally. Heat wave. Power outage. Open windows. He must have run off. But he hasn't come back.

Kinda know how Hudson felt about Bronx during the World Tour. So I'm hoping Iggy's having fun in his own personal Avalon.

Response recorded on August 23, 2006

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Joey writes...

How did Elisa know how to wake up Sleeping King Arthur in Avalon part 3?

Greg responds...

The Magus filled her in off-camera.

Response recorded on August 22, 2006

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Joey writes...

If Gargoyles hadn't (temporarily) ended when it did, would it still be going or would you have run out of material by now? 10 years is a lot of episodes. How many eps per season would there have been anyways? 13, 52, or somewhere in between.

Greg responds...

Well, there are SO many "ifs" in your hypothetical question, I don't know how to evalute the specifics. But I am QUITE confident that I would not have run out of material by now. The new comic book can easily go twice that long assuming sales support us.

As for how many episodes per season, that's a financial question, not a creative one. We didn't do 13 in season one and 52 in season two for creative reasons, but for financial ones. Likewise the decision to make 13 in Season 3 (Goliath Chronicles) was again financial. So in the intervening seasons, the answer is zero per season, for what Disney perceived as financial reasons. So how to evaluate financials for a hypothetical non-existent season is impossible.

Response recorded on August 22, 2006

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Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the Election Day present, Greg - namely, the "Walkabout" ramble! Here's some thoughts of mine on it in response.

For a start, I missed this episode the first time around (due to my moving to my first Central West End apartment the day that it first aired), so I only got to see it during later showings (by which time, of course, I'd seen "The Gathering" and knew the real story about Anastasia Renard). Fortunately, it didn't ruin the episode for me.

Generally, I have difficulties with the notion of an artificial intelligence as the antagonist (whether a computer, a robot, or what-have-you) - when it's a deliberate antagonist, that is, as opposed to just following orders like the Steel Clan robots or Renard's cybots - because I find it a little too difficult to imagine a machine becoming evil. I believe (like Goliath in "Outfoxed") that it takes a living being to engage in motives of good or evil. So, for example, I usually have a hard time accepting a computer or robot out to conquer the world since that would require it to have emotions (power-hunger, greed, paranoia of the "I've got to conquer them before they conquer me" variety), which I can't imagine an artificial intelligence developing. That said, I found that Matrix's actions in "Walkabout" worked for me since it wasn't out to reformat the world out of "villainous motives" but merely because it was obeying its programming, to create order, and thought that it was carrying out its duty. It might not even have understood, at that stage in its development, that its bringing order to the world would mean disaster to all living things on the planet. So the Matrix worked for me.

(I might add that one of my favorite bits in the episode comes when Goliath is protesting repeatedly to the Matrix in the Dreamtime that its form of order would bring about death to everyone on Earth, and the Matrix replies, in this almost desperate fashion "But we must have order." It said that in a way that felt, to me, as if it was beginning to understand at last what Goliath was saying, but still had the problem that its programming demanded that it produce order, and it couldn't go against its programming.)

I'd gotten fond of Dingo after "Upgrade", and so I enjoyed seeing him again, wanting to make a change for the better. The touch that I especially liked was his mentioning about how he'd used to be a hero to a lot of people when he was on the Pack's television series, and wants to go back to that, only this time being a real hero rather than just playing one on television.

You're correct about the "Dreamtime" being not quite accurate; a friend of mine who knows more about Australian Aborigine legend than I do pointed out that the Dreamtime was actually a "mythical time period" when the world was being created rather than some sort of other dimension.

I liked your mention of how the Avalon World Tour was supposed to take the cast to every inhabited continent (the "inhabited" part would explain the absence of Antarctica - which you were planning on sending King Arthur and Griff to, anyway). Technically, they don't set foot in South America unless you enlarge its boundaries to include Central America (in this case, Guatemala), and don't set foot on mainland Asia (as opposed to Japan) in the television series (though there's your Himalayas story that you'd planned for the Gargoyles comic to make up for that).

I got a chuckle out of Erin's response to the name "Matrix" in connection to the movies.

Of course, another big element is the introduction of Anastasia Renard on stage at last, plus seeing Fox pregnant. (I've sometimes wondered whether there were any S&P issues with that part.) I especially liked Goliath realizing that Fox is Renard's daughter after being introduced to Anastasia.

Again, thanks for the ramble. I'm really looking forward to more to come.

Greg responds...

I don't recall any particular S&P problems with Fox's pregnancy. Though I definitely feel that the mere fact that we were allowed to have Fox get pregnant was something of a miracle.

Response recorded on August 22, 2006

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Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the first new Ramble in a year, Greg. I really enjoyed reading the "Hound of Ulster" one, and hope that this is the first of many more to come in the last couple of months of 2004; I've been eagerly awaiting the rambles for the last 22 episodes of "Gargoyles" that you worked on, after getting the rambles for the first 44.

I only saw the first half of the episode the first time that it aired (I was in the middle of a move from the suburbs to the Central West End of St. Louis in early 1996, and so missed the end due to working on the move with my family). And by the time that I got to see the whole thing through, I'd already seen "The Gathering", complete with the Banshee's fate at the hands of Oberon. Not that it hurt things that much. Since then, I watch my taped version of it regularly each St. Patrick's Day, as a holiday tradition. The big pity is that I can no longer remember my initial response to it (such as whether I thought that Molly was a person independent of the Banshee whom the Banshee merely masqueraded as once or twice, or whether they were one and the same). Sorry about that.

I was amused to discover that you'd originally thought of calling this one "A Bronx Tail" in light of how the Goliath Chronicles used that title later on. (I recall that they also used that title in the "Gargoyles" comic book series, at one point.)

I honestly hadn't thought of the Lassie connection with Bronx until you mentioned it (but then, I know Lassie more by reputation). (I did catch the Wizard of Oz quotes right away, though.)

I'm a bit puzzled by your mention of a certain "Liscoo". Is that the name of Rory's hometown (if so, it obviously didn't make it into the dialogue of the completed episode)?

You were correct in not using the term "Barghest" for that episode, since it's indeed linked to northern England (those viewers who were already aware of the discrepancy from the original Cuchulain legend would have let you have it even more if the term "Barghest" had gotten into an Irish story!). But I like the notion of associating gargoyle beasts with the "black dogs" of Britain and Ireland. The "black dogs" of British and Irish folklore do match gargoyle beasts; they're generally nocturnal, are awe-inspiring creatures that can strike fear into people's hearts, and yet often appear in the role of protectors, despite their fearsome quality. So Bronx playing the role of one of them works.

I find the "dwarves made my shoes" line appropriate, since one of the most famous mythical denizens of Ireland is the leprechaun, and leprechauns are dwarflike shoemakers. (Was that line intended as a direct reference to leprechauns, or is it just another neat coincidence?)

(Another piece of trivia: the Cromm-Cruach - the Banshee's "death-worm" form - or, more precisely, its namesake in Irish mythology, was the source for the name of Crom, the god worshipped by - or, more accurately, sworn by - Conan the Barbarian. Robert E. Howard, the man who originally created Conan, had the habit of borrowing almost all of his names from actual legend and ancient history.)

I'd thought myself (after a couple of showings of the episode, though not right away) that there is a certain similarity between Rory/Cuchulain and the Mighty Thor of Marvel Comics (both modern-day people who become "real" mythical figures after discovering a stick that transforms into the mythical figure's traditional weapon). Hopefully you'll be able to solve it if you ever bring the series back long enough for Rory to show up again.

And, yep, the Banshee did pass up the opportunity to mesmerize her prisoners. (She also showed that annoying tendency that so many interrogators have of "I've already made up my mind about whether you're innocent or guilty, so all the evidence that you're innocent won't mean a thing to me." A bit like Nokkar later on in "Sentinel", in fact.)

I share your delight in Rory's dad's lack of enthusiasm at seeing Molly. I also enjoy the parts where Rory warms to Bronx (particularly where he actually rides him).

And, yep, it wound up being mainly Rory's episode - but Bronx still got a big role in it.

Greg responds...

I have long term plans for more on Rory, Banshee and even--

Oh no, it's the SLG SPOILER POLICE!

"Damn it, Weisman! Save SOME surprises for the comic book!! Don't make us punish you ... again!"

Response recorded on August 22, 2006

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Lord GargFan writes...

Sorry to ask this again, but, here it goes...

What did Titania whisper to Fox at the end of "The Gathering, Part 2"?

Here are my reasons for you answering this question:

1. It's been long enough. Time to answer this question.

2. It's a burning question that most people want answered.

And another question:

Would what she whispered to Fox be important in a future episode or spin-off?

Greg responds...

Your reasoning seems faulty to me.

1. It's almost been too long. I think at this point my answer would be anti-climactic.

2. I know there's a contingent that doesn't want the answer, but just cuz some fans think they want it, doesn't mean they're right to want it.

And in any case, I have promised to reveal the answer when the Gathering has five hundred or more attendees, and not before. So if you really want the answer, help us scare up attendance for Pigeon Forge!

As for your final question, all things come around in Gargoyles.

Response recorded on August 22, 2006

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Lord GargFan writes...

How would the gargs vote in the election 2004? Also please include the votes for Owen, Elisa, and Xanatos.

Greg responds...

I'm still back in 1996.

Response recorded on August 22, 2006

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Michael Melnikoff writes...

My question relates to the video game "Kingdom Hearts" made by Disney and Square-Enix. For those who haven't played it, the game features worlds, plots, and characters from Disney's many movies and cartoons, even going so far as to get many of the original voice actors to voice the characters. Disney/Square are currently making the sequel Kingdom Hearts 2, and if that game does as well as the first, possibly even a Kingdom Hearts 3. It may be entirely possible that the Gargoyles could be added into one of these two games. Would Disney even consider doing something like this? If it happened, would Disney contact you about a possible plotline for the Gargoyles section of the game? Thanks a bunch.

Greg responds...

I think it would be great, but I have no idea how to make it happen. Don't even know whom to talk to about it. If Disney or Square or whomever decided to include Gargoyles, I would hope they'd come to me. But I can't be sure they would.

Response recorded on August 22, 2006

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Darius writes...

When will the first season of Gargoyles be released in the UK, I already know it will be released 7th December in the United States and I've found no information that it will even be released in the UK.
yomandaz@msn.com

Greg responds...

I don't know even now (nearly two years later). Was it released in the U.K.?

Response recorded on August 21, 2006

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Sam writes...

What kind of buildings were gargoyles found on originally?

Greg responds...

In which culture?

In western culture, mostly cathedrals and castles. But there are a ton of gargoyles on less impressive buildings as well.

Response recorded on August 21, 2006

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DPH writes...

How exactly did you come to realize that Puck and Owen were the same person?

Was it because you looking at who Puck had served and needed somebody?

Greg responds...

I can't believe I haven't answered this before here. But since Todd didn't field this one, I guess I haven't... or at least not here at ASK GREG.

Anyway... No.

We always knew there was something special about Owen, but didn't know what it was at first. Then when we first started working on "The Mirror" and created Puck, it suddenly occured to me that Puck was Owen. An epiphany. I immediately called Brynne Chandler Reaves and Lydia Marano. The conversation went something like this...

Greg: "I just realized: Owen is Puck!"

Brynne & Lydia: "We know!"

It was just so right. The references in "The Mirror" to Puck "serving the human" and in "City of Stone, Part One" to Owen being "the tricky one" were put in post-epiphany.

Response recorded on August 21, 2006

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DPH writes...

Will you please give us approximate dates for when Goliath & Elisa arrived at the various points on the world tour?

Greg responds...

All of them...?

Greedy, much?

<sigh>

Let's see. I'll do it 'til I'm worn out.

Goliath, Elisa & Bronx first arrived...

--on Avalon on December 28, 1995.

Goliath, Elisa, Bronx & Angela first arrived...

--at Wyvern on January 1, 1996;

--on Queen Florence Island on January 3, 1996;

--at Loch Ness on January 16, 1996;

--in Prague on January 19, 1996;

--in Paris on January 21, 1996;

--in London on January 23, 1996;

--in Egypt on January 25, 1996;

--in Ireland on January 27, 1996;

--in Australia on May 1, 1996;

--in Nigeria on May 16, 1996;

--in Norway on May 19, 1996;

--on New Olympus on May 22, 1996;

--in Guatelmala on May 24, 1996;

--on Rapa Nui on June 10, 1996;

--in Ishimura on June 14, 1996;

--in Arizona on June 16, 1996;

--in Tibet on June 18, 1996;

--for the final time on Avalon on July 4th, 1996,

--and back in Manhattan on July 9th, 1996.

Gee, guess I have more stamina than I thought.

Response recorded on August 18, 2006

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Tony Jay, R.I.P.

I just read in today's paper that actor Tony Jay has passed away.

I won't pretend that I knew Tony well. We only worked together once, when he played Anubis for us in the GARGOYLES episode "Grief". But what a great guest spot, huh?

I just loved what he did as Anubis a.k.a. the Jackal-God a.k.a. Death a.k.a. the guy who refused to play favorites. And one of my favorite bits in all of Gargoyles was how we combined Tony's voice -- first with Matt Frewer's and then with Tony Shaloub's -- to create the two Avatars of Anubis. Three totally different personae, one great talented actor. As one might imagine, that could have been a frustrating day, struggling to match up Matt's work with Tony Jay's. (Tony Shaloub recorded at a different time.) But Tony Jay made it easy for us.

He'll be missed.


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Jade Griffin writes...

The Gathering 2004 : Jade Griffin's Journal
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
August 5 - 9, 2004

DAY 1 : THE ARRIVAL

August 5th- Thursday

I'd been looking forward to another Gathering, having missed last year's con in New York. Not even the necessity of flying to a foreign country could dampen my mood. I couldn't wait for my voyage to start!

Having never traveled outside the US, I was grateful for some friendly assistance from seasoned passengers. None on my flight were headed for the Gathering but I find helpful people are more plentiful than previous pessimistic estimates calculated. Arriving the day before the Gathering at 6pm to the hotel, who should I see but the famous and welcome faces of Eden and Kanthara! Followed closely by a sighting of Siryn in the elevator, I was in the comfort of garg fan familiarity. My second home:)

It really is special, the feeling of Clan. We laugh, we share, we know and help each other, but it's more than that. It is a feeling for me that no matter what goes wrong, who cares! It will come out right. I know this because my good friends and fellow Clanners are here with me:)

That evening, I met two of my three roomies -- Mandolin and Kathy-- and had a nice dinner -- accompanied by Chyna Rose and Seri Wavelength-- where we talked on all manner of subjects, from anime crossover fics to garg biology.

BTW, the hotel is gorgeous, everyone is nice, and the food and rooms excellent. Thank you, Montreal Delta Centre-Ville!

I found more and more well-known faces (and names for those I'd never met irl) -- including Greg Weisman, creator of Gargoyles-- and don't get to sleep until roughly 2AM. But who could pass up Godiva chocolate bars and the offer of secrets revealed from Clan Olympics coordinator Abram Wintersmith? Thanx Mau and Abram!

DAY 2 : THE MISSION

August 6th- Friday

Up but not having eaten, I went down to the lobby to see who's about and the Mezzanine to get my badge for the con. It's nothing unusual that it was late setting up. No biggie. More time to gather and chat:) What we do best. I also began collecting room #s to relocate people later.

After registering, unofficially assisted a duo of con virgins with questions. Decked out in my homemade G'04 t-shirt and con badge, I musta looked fairly official looking because I got a lot of questions!

Time to set up art. I hurried back up to the room, grabbed my entries, and set my shtuff up. Grabbed a bite to eat and signed up for Artist's Alley, where artists can take commissions and sell their art on the spot. There for almost 1.5 hrs, and then at the end I received a whopping 6-person commission! There were so many awesome artists competing in the art show I felt a tad outclassed. Y2Hecate, Taylor, Sara Berkley, Noel Leas, Eden, Karlyl, and so many more. The garg fandom definitely has the most talened and creative people. But let's not forget the film crew hired by Disney to make a G'04 documentary. I'd been watching for signs of them, and saw them a bit that day. Hard not to lugging around a film camera and a boom mic:) But I wasn't trying to get in anyone's way, so at the Artist's Alley I stayed. And at every Gathering I attend, I do one thing besides my infamous Mystery Gargoyles Theater 3000 event (more on that later). I bring a picture to give away.

This picture has a rather touching story behind it. It is a memorial picture I did after learning of poor Granite's unfortunate accident that took her life, and I refuse to sell the picture. I want her remembered, and so I give the picture to others, to remind them of her, of how special we all are, and that we are a special group because we care so much about everyone, even those we met only briefly.

As I told this story to one fan stopping by, the film crew heard me. They came over and asked me to say the story again. Intrigued, they later came back and filmed me explaining from the start, and reading the lyrics that go with the picture, from Disney's Millenium Walk: "We Go On". I was so happy to have them interested in Granite's picture, I think I forgot to say my name! LOL. And yes, it was great getting on camera. Can't lie there.

Opening Ceremonies. We got to watch Greg's (aka Greg Weisman, series creator) usual delightful video collection of hopeful projects, and then got a little surprise. Greg had an audio tape of others we'd like to have as guests, saying hello to us from afar and hoping to see us in following cons! How sweet! And then Clan Olympics interrupted the whole affair with an intro of the teams and the first competition. Talk about wild!

Greg came back to the podium after the planned 'interruption'. He had important stuff to say, and we listened well.

"The first season of Gargoyles will be released on December 7th of this year, in time for the holiday season."

Ecstatic applause ensued.

"I have a mission for you." Greg said. "Even if every one of you bought ten copies of the dvd..."

And here we interruped with a hearty, "Only ten??"

Smile. "It won't be enough to get the show back. I want you, like missionaries, to spread the word. We need to tell everyone about it. that is the best thing you can do to get new material for the show. If it sells phenomenally well, we'll get that shot. So go out there, post it online, tell everyone you know, get the word out about the dvd. This is the pivotal moment, the make-it-or-break-it. Our only shot at this, but we do have a chance." Note: not verbatum

Even more ecstatic applause errupted.

So we now have a mission, and a good start.

Here's an even better one: Chris Rogers, heading the G'05 con in Vegas, informed us that the fandom is now a legal organization, with all the legal rights and priviledges thereof. We can write off Gathering expenses on our taxes, including travel, membership dues (Gathering admission), and probably hotel expenses! Can this really be true?? OMG! Exciting stuff! We are recognized!!

After Opening Ceremonies, it's time for MGT3K. Mystery Gargoyle Theater 3000 is a combo of the show antics of Mystery Science Theater 3000 and Gargoyles. Basically, I invite con goers to join me in making fun of the episodes:) I get it all down on the net and post the 'scripts' on the official MGT3K website. For more info, see Mystery Gargoyle Theater 3000 for info and the scripts! I was pleased to see about 30 people attending. Ah, the faithful hecklers:)

The con does something every time I find fascinating. This year it was called the Blue Mug-A-Guest. In cons prior, it had no name I knew of. Basically Greg Weisman inviting however many will fit into the con suite to talk about whatever we want involving gargs or his other works. And I mean ask him ANYthing. This session was rated 18 and over, people. Frequently, though, we had mild queries for the Creator, and the room was totally packed. I think I counted 45 or so people in one small con suite, and you know how small those rooms are!

It was another late nighter but as always, I fell into bed around 2:30 AM, very happy and psyched.

DAY 3 : THE MASQUERADE

August 7th- Saturday

Aside from Keith David (voice of Goliath) being seriously delayed, the con was going great. So much to do! I had another commission, a pic trade with Taylor, the art show to cast my vote in, a few panels to catch, food, auditioning for the Radio Play, socializing, merch to peruse, the auction to bid at, and then dinner. Still no Keith David...

Many people dressed nice for the banquet, and let me tell you, I felt I should have. It's ambience. spoke nothing but elegance and decadence. Beauty, tasteful delights, and no small meal! Add that to great company and you get... Exquisite.

BTW, 2 things different in Canada than in the US-- Same # of bums on the streets but the shops all have open windows and walls! Instead of air conditioned buildings, they let the natural breeze cool you while you eat and shop. Cool:)

Keith David arrived and was very friendly, open, amiable, and very willing to tell stories, even after all the delays of flights and having his three children with him. He must really like us!

I and others had to depart w/o hearing all of his stories. Costumes to prepare!

Like many this year, I worked hard on my outfit. We wanted to look good. We all knew the film crew would be there, and so would Greg Weisman and Keith David. I hoped everyone would be surprised and pleased with mine.

Wow. What cool costumes! Echidna, Loopy, Princess Catherine and Tom, a pregnant Fox, MacBeth, Puck, Ophelia, Xanatos and a trenchcoated Fox from Eye of the Beholder, and fan characters galoure. There were lots more. Sorry if I haven't named you.

I decided mine needed some dialogue so I signed up to do the cosplay. I had ten minutes to come up with something as I waited in line to walk in! I also had a hard act to follow with Loopy's scared-of-flying gargoyle song and play. Dang, that costume rocked! But I'd give it a try.

"Jade Griffin as Elisa from Eye of the Beholder!"

My que! I jogged down the aile in my ball gown and up to the stage, flashing my con badge like a police badge.

"Elisa Maza, NYPD! Has anyone seen Fox and Xanatos??" Well, my entrance surprised many, as I looked just like Belle from Beauty and the Beast. Of course, this was from the garg episode Eye of the Beholder where Elisa dressed as Belle one Halloween night ;) I continued, "Aw, crap! They ditched me again! Every Halloween it's the same thing. And I even have the right wig this time, too. Oh well... Can't let this go to waste." Where I proceeded to 'rip' the bottom of my specially tailored gown off in a solide stroke and flash some leg, and a gun holster, before sauntering off.

I guess I made an impression. I won second place in cannon characters (costume). Truly the 'Belle' of the ball, everyone said I looked awesome. Everyone seemed to want to take my picture, or have one WITH me! (and if you have any please! I'll do a photo swap for a copy!!) They asked me how I made it, said I looked so cute! *giggle* Best of all was when Greg announced the winners : "Jade Griffin as La Belle Elisa!" Wow:) What a title!! I'll treasure it always.

We danced, we sang karaoke, we got Keith to sing and Greg danced. Eden dressed as Titania gave a superb rendition of Chicago's All That Jazz which drown out the mad-cat yowling of the next room over's horrid karaoke (and dang they were aweful! I hope Keith realized we were totally busting up because of them during his talking and not him. Major LOL!) Again, up until @ 1 or 2 AM.

DAY 4 : THE ORGANIZATION

August 8th- Sunday

Greg couldn't join us to rally for the closing ceremonies but Chris Rogers was more than plenty to stir the fire. Right after closing, the first meeting of Gargoyles Fans.Org convened. We discussed in parliamentary procedure fashion who would be elected on the board of directors (and we did that there), how to meet, how often, started discussion on publicity for G'05 and the DVD being synchronous. Tons of ideas, on all aspects of this exciting step in our beloved fandom. It is the fandom we support the most, you see. Finally, legal recognition! Can you imagine how rare that is? What other fandom has done that? I can't name any! We have that status. It makes me happy. With whatever we do next, we have already accomplished a lot.

DAY 5 : THE DEPARTURE

August 9th- Monday

Aw, gotta go. Laser tag last night in a 3-story facility and a tour of old Montreal that got me and Robert lost and I missed my flight. Did I mind? Naw. The spirit of the Gathering goes with me. It's a part of me. No... I make it a part of the Gathering. We all do. This group is so special:) We make it special, because we try, because we do, because we are there. At the Gathering or no, we are always by each others' sides. I go home, to Reno, to rl, but I never left my Clan. In fact, I just got closer:)

EPILOGUE

If you couldn't tell, this fandom is dedicated to the color and expression of creativity and to the enjoyment of life and fun. In spirit, we are gargoyles. We live, we love, and we'll defend and protect that with everything we've got. We are Gargoyles Fans, and we live!

Greg responds...

Hey Jade, I guess you've retired your "La Belle Elisa" dress. But it's always great to see you...

Response recorded on August 18, 2006

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Lord Sloth writes...

Friday (part deux): I wasn't completely certain that I'd go for do the auditions today, wondering vaguely if there might be some kind of advantage to waiting and going for the one that Keith would be down for. I turned out to be wrong on two counts, count one being that an audition is a fairly informal business and having another celebrity there would surly just add to the pressure; and count two being of course that it was a moot point anyway since Keith didn't arrive till the banquet. But I was determined to be part of this radio play and it's usually better to get it over with than to worry for another day, even if I could rehearse my lines for longer.
As for my lines, Xanatos script looked mighty tempting as there was a whole lot of fun new smug dialogue to play with, but I decided I'd be better off bringing out all the guns with Demona's emotional rampage. That made getting the part of Xanatos in the end all the more ironic, but I shouldn't get ahead of myself. Now I think, for the most part, that the audition went quite well, but be straight with me here Greg (if you can remember), did you write something akin to disgraceful next to my English accent? Cause I think I would have in your place. I THINK I did a fairly good Scottish and cat, but then I haven't heard myself on tape so who knows, all I know for sure is I don't blame you for not giving me Jon Castaway!
So that was fun, much more fun then what I did next. There was still a good hour or so before the opening ceremonies, so I thought I'd make another attempt at getting a new charger for my camera. The end result was that I spent the hour walking/running back and forth along Rue St. Catherine (I think) looking for something that ended up costing from seventy to one hundred smackers anyway. At least John (sorry, can't remember your full name) accompanied me for a good portion of the time, and twas good exercise so not all was in vain.
So, back I came just in time for the start of the show, and what a show it was! I can't say I fully understood the Olympic mentality, but I think I'm still glad that I opted not to participate. All the awards and promos were good stuff <was good stuff?>, though my hands were pretty exhausted by the end, we still had to show plenty of enthusiasm for the cameras. But as Xanatos says, that was all merely the icing, and the cake was fantastic; even more then getting the DVD news (which was great) I had been yearning a long time to see those spin off pitches/reel, and that was a dish best served cold. It wasn't entirely what I expected with some very different art then what we normally see on the show (I know they weren't finalized, but I wonder how close those shows would look to the one I know and love). Those giant robots were a little disconcerting as well, a little too close to X-men's sentinels, whom I was never fond of, but hearing claw, dingo, Robin and the rest again more then made up for it. And then I got to hear Demona again! I wasn't expecting that, even though I knew you had played that tape before, I didn't know it would be hear. That was something, once Marina came up I closed my eyes and let my mind fill in the pictures, though I might have looked like I was on drugs or something cause I had a big grin on my face. And then Mole re-dubbing her his "angle of the night", a bit sacrilegious but very hilarious!
Then that was that, and all I had were memories. I stuck around for Gargoyle Theater and threw in some cheeky comments myself, (which are on an audio file somewhere too no doubt. That was fun enough, but ultimately I prefer not to mock what I love too much, the scars can run too deep (so I hope Captain Chavez doesn't get a hold of that tape and hear my comment to her).
Anyvay, I'm not certain what I did for the next hour, I think I went up to Alex's room to hang out and watched south park in French, so that was mostly forgettable. Comparatively speaking.
Then came the Mug a Greg in Blue. Pretty good stuff, though I don't think I learned anything new that hadn't been said before in ask greg (which is understandable, not everyone who came will have been there), but it was plenty cool enough to listen to the way you phrased your answers/rants and to note the similarities to the way you write the same thing. Admittedly, it wasn't all that blue, I had a vague notion by the end to ask another Q along the lines of which of your characters you find the sexiest, but by then it was nearing 2am and I could barely string two word together coherently. I guess that's what happens when there's not enough smut in our dialogue, but I digress.
So far I was having more fun then I planed to, and there was still a lot to look forward to tomorrow. So I stumbled back to my Hostel to get what sleep I could.

Greg responds...

Hey Sloth, I'll be honest, I have NO memory of your audition. Remember the performance, of course. But the audition? Nope. But obviously, you did well enough to get cast, so...

Response recorded on August 17, 2006

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Aaron writes...

Greg, I'm sorry, I've been writing for the past three hours straight and I'm not anywhere close to being done.

But G04 was lots of fun, I'm looking forward to Vegas (though not all the work that's going to come with it) and if you're curious you can read the full account of my gathering journal which should be posted on my LiveJournal

(http://www.livejournal.com/users/justicevoles/

by the time you read this.

Again sorry, just ran totally out of time.

Greg responds...

Hey Aaron,

Don't sweat it too much. I'm a bit confused that you were able to post this. When did the posting function shut down...?

Response recorded on August 17, 2006

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Demona Taina writes...

Hi Greg! I couldn't make it to Montreal this year, but I've made up my mind to go to Vegas. Thank you so much for the DVD; I'll buy several copies when it comes out! Now, on to my questions... This is something that's been puzzling me for a while, and I couldn't find it anywhere on the archives. I'd be so happy if you had the answers.

1. In the episode Reawakening, after Coldstone and Goliath fell into the river and Goliath was losing consciousness, he holds on to Coldstone's forearm. Is there a deeper meaning behind that? Was it:

a) a warrior wrist-shake
b) a cry for help
c) asking forgiveness
d) an unconscious reaction

If the answer is a, b, c, or d, why? If none of the above, what? I'm just so curious about that scene. It's so deep and moving; definitely one of the best scenes in the entire series.

2. When Goliath and Coldstone are in the river, Hudson is heard in the background saying "A gargoyle can no more stop protecting the castle than breathing the air," it slowly trails off. Was Goliath thinking that and it trailed off as he lost consciousness? Was Othello? Or does it have a deeper meaning?

I would be so grateful if you had the answers! Thank you so much, and I look forward to meeting you in Vegas!

Greg responds...

1. All of the above.

2. It's somewhat symbolic, but yes, Goliath wa thinking of it. And it trailed off as Goliath began to lose consciousness. I like to think that Coldstone was thinking something similar.

Response recorded on August 17, 2006

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Zehra writes...

Whoops, sorry the last part of this is late. Picking up where I left off..

Zehra's Gathering 2004 babbles, part III

Sunday, August 8th (Zombie Sunday, and Keith David rocks)

Around 6am, I said bye to Greg in the lobby. Then I went back up to my room and slept for about 5 hours.

Wandered down around noon to the Keith David Mug-A-Guest, and talked with some cool Canadians while sitting on the floor, waiting for Keith.

When Keith entered, the room was imbued with energy as he proceeded to shake everyone's hand. Throughout the Q&A he dripped more gems. Keith credits God as the main thing that has gotten him through his career. That response particularly stuck with me-I think that's really awesome.

After the Q&A, I had a quick lunch before closing ceremonies. The art show awards were announced, and I was pleased because a lot of the pieces I voted for got awards. Yay talented artists!!

I got Keith to sign my radio play script--he saw that I played Elisa and gave me a high five. *squeal* I told him I wanted to become a stage director, and he said maybe someday he'd be working for me. What a nice, awesome guy.

After that, I crashed in my room for a while. Watched Mean Girls on the hotel tv, which I really enjoyed (particularly the Caesar speech.) Then I took another nap. By the time I woke up, it was too late for dinner, so I went to the con suite to see if anybody was around. Who did I run into outside the room but Alan! Who ushered me in, and made me sit dangerously close to his wife. Men. ;) Karine, pregnant bartender extraordinaire, mixed me a yummy cranberry vodka peach schnapps drink. Mmmm tastes like college.

After saying goodbyes, I went back to my room and watched CNN until I heard my fill of the Scott Peterson trial news, and fell asleep.

Monday, August 9th

For some reason my body thought it'd be a great idea to wake itself up at 5am (residual jet lag.) So I gave into it and had breakfast, and plotted what to do with the rest of my day. I thought about joining the amusement park folks, but I really wanted to go shopping. Thanks to the kindly instructions from the Signature Club lounge's lovely ladies, I set off for Eaton Centre, a mall about a 15 minute walk away.

The weather was freaking BEAUTIFUL. Clear blue skies, a cool wind blowing in. No need for a jacket.

I bought some things I probably wll never wear. A really cute, kinda retro 70s dress, with a Lichtenstein-esque pattern. One of those "poncho" things that are in style these days, a delicate pinkish knit with fringe. But the best buy was from this casual clothes store called Ko Kawaii (multiated Japanese for "cute kid") There, I found the best pair of lounge/workout pants EVER which I affectionately term the Shego pants. Black with a green stripe down the edge. These sweatpants were the perfect cut--slim, long and flare at the bottom. And they combined 3 elements I love: 1) Shego colors 2) Japanese (the characters for ko kawai were on it) and 3) the number 28, my birthday and lucky number (I'm wearing them now, actually) My only regret is not buying more. And I'm pretty sure its a Canada-only chain. Bummer.

So..to answer the age old question: Is Canada more fashionable than the US? The answer would be a resounding YES.

I wanted to do more sightseeing, but I'm paranoid and as a girl travelling alone and not knowing the area well(though I hear Montreal is very safe,) I didn't meander too far from the hotel. That's what I miss about Japan--the safety. I went all around that country by myself and never ran into any problems. It's probably the safest place I've ever lived, or ever will live.

Also, I was exhausted (damn 5 am start.) But I did stop at a cathedral (Queen Mary of the World, I think) on my way back, and rested there for 20 minutes. Beautiful architecture. I love old buildings of worship. Mosques, cathedrals, temples, shrines--they're all so beautiful. The energy in them is just so...peaceful. Soothing, calming--I guess is the best way to describe it.

Got back to the hotel, and took a nap which lasted 8 hours (oops.) In the late evening, I spent the money I would have spent on dinner by renting Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (another great film. I love Kate Winslet) and then finally went to bed.

Tuesday, August 10th

Uneventfully got to the airport in the afternoon.

Sat next to a nice man on the plane who was interested in talking my ear off about how the airlines dont know what the heck they're doing, and can't run a business. He began talking about how the company structures are flawed and how fare tables are in flux and inconsistent...and having absolutely nothing to add(I STUDY THEATER) I nodded and smiled. He was cool though, reminded me of Mr. Clean.

Came home to my dad who brought home Indian food for me. Yay!
Watched Go Team Go, the Kim Possible episode I'd been wanting to see for a while that I had set a tape for on the Thursday I left. Yay!

Thus ended a great little vacation that totally recharged me, and made me glad to be back on this side of the world. Thank you, Greg! :)

Greg responds...

Don't thank me. It's those VERY HARD-WORKING Gathering Staffers who put on the show. All I do is show up and help heft the occasional box or fold the occasional t-shirt... oh and get a lot of hero-worship. The things I put up with. ;)

Response recorded on August 16, 2006


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