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I'm not big on relating my entire reaction to an episode, but highlighting certain key reactions of mine that stand out. I'll start with the negative. The idea that this Matrix could be so rapidly developed by Xanatos along with all his other projects struck me as reaching a little far. That he never chooses to use the technology for commercial gain in industry (nanite construction) or medicine (nanite healers) also threw me.
Of course, this was Fox's and Anastasia's experiment, not so much Xanatos'. I liked the notion that perhaps Anastasia infused the Matrix with magic in order to accelerate it. I also choose to believe that the Matrix represented, for Xanatos, a sort of dark temptation. I like to think that after the failure in Australia, Xanatos decides it was for the best and that transfiguring the whole world for his purposes is not him, it is the deep inner demon in him that must be silenced. I think Xanatos is a guy who values reason and considers it the barrier and interpreter between his dark, inner demon and his outer surface of grace, charm and tact.
Anyway, I loved Dingo, the Shaman, and the Dreamtime. Neither the Shaman nor the Dreamtime were very thoroughly developed, but that is what I liked about them. The spare dialogue made the Shaman and the Dreamtime feel more mysterious and therefore attractive. The way the Dreamtime was used as a bridge of communication with the Matrix was a stroke of brilliance, I thought.
Finally, in the Dreamtime, I loved the way the Matrix is represented -- as that mechanical set of arms and gyroscopic "eye" that zooms in on Goliath like an insect as he gives his gloriously-written and very eloquent speech, which I also loved. Tha whole scene is perfect and made the episode for me. I love the stuff Goliath will say in a tight spot that manages to convey desparation and maintains eloquence at the same time.
I'm glad there was so much that you liked. I hate to therefore pick on the little bit of negative that you mentioned, but I can't resist, because it raises a larger point.
"The idea that this Matrix could be so rapidly developed by Xanatos along with all his other projects struck me as reaching a little far. That he never chooses to use the technology for commercial gain in industry (nanite construction) or medicine (nanite healers) also threw me. "
Except you don't know that any of the above statements are true. The fact that we hadn't shined a spotlight on this area of his conglomerate until "Walkabout" hardly proves that he (a) hadn't been in development of this tech for some time or (b) that he wasn't -- both before and after events depicted here -- attempting to exploit the tech industrially. Xanatos Enterprises is a BIG company, and most of their endeavors are, well, dull. The fact that I'm only telling the interesting stories doesn't prove that the mundane isn't taking place behind the scenes.
Been a while since I posted a question. Thanks to all involved getting Ask Greg fully operational again.
Seeing that the question line is about 1.5 years backlogged, I figure asking this in November '04 might get it answered when it is just about the time to ask: With season 1 coming out soon as I type, and long since out by the time this is read, what is the news on season 2?
Season 1 and Season 2, Volume 1 are both available now on DVD. The former sold well. The latter, not so much. So as I've said MANY, MANY times before, we need to SPREAD THE WORD about both volumes so that we can get Season 2, Volume 2 which is not currently scheduled to be released due to the poor sales of Season 2, Volume 1.
I've plugged 'em before. Now I'll let them plug themselves...
Subject: Much Adoobie Brothers EXTENDED!
Troubadour Theater Company EXTENDS
Los Angeles Times' Critics' Choice
Much Adoobie Brothers About Nothing
NOW Playing through Sunday, September 24.
Scroll down to read the rave reviews.
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August 10 - September 24
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CRITICS' CHOICE! "Put it all together and you have the truest hallmark of any Troubadour show...bad wigs, rock star preening and outrageous comic riffs (that) LEAVE THE AUDIENCE BREATHLESS WITH LAUGHTER!"
--Daryl Miller, LA TIMES
["All true" --Greg Weisman]
GO! "A SCREAM! Another LAUGH FILLED TRIUMPH FOR THE TROUBIES!"
--Martin Hernandez, LA WEEKLY
"HILARIOUS! DELICIOUSLY FUNNY! UNDER MATT WALKER'S FIRST RATE DIRECTION, THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE is a RAMBUNCTIOUS BUNDLE OF JOYFUL COMIC ANARCHY!"
--Terry Morgan, VARIETY
["Matt Walker is an effing genius" -- Greg Weisman]
CRITIC'S PICK! "IT'S ALL TOTALLY BITCHIN'! MATT WALKER, WHO ACCOMPANIED BY HIS USUAL PARTNER IN HILARITY, BETH KENNEDY, AND THE LOVELY LAUREN GIRA - BRINGS DOWN THE HOUSE! A PITCH-PERFECT JEN SEIFERT PARRIES BRILLIANTLY WITH ERIC ANDERSON! A BALLS-OUT ROCK 'N' ROLL BASTARDIZATION OF SHAKESPEARE! RIGHT ON!"
--Jennie Webb, BACKSTAGE WEST
CRITIC'S PICK! "WILD! HILARIOUS! THE IMPRESSIVE SMARTLY MOUNTED PRODUCTION, AND WALKER'S SHARP SAVVY DIRECTION WITH ROLLICKING PERFORMANCES JUST ASTONISHES! DON'T MISS IT!"
--Gerri Garner, AMERICAN RADIO NETWORKS
"Nobody does Doobies like the Troubies"
I was woundering if you have ever thought about continueing the series on a website in writen form or something of the like??
How about as a comic book?
What ever happened to the the "live-action" movie of Gargoyles? Will there ever be one eventually?
As I've answered many times before -- including VERY recently -- the movie has been shelved by Touchstone.
MARK OF THE PANTHER
And with this I should finally be caught up.
In the first few minutes, I found myself fearing that this episode would be focused primarily on our heroes stopping poachers. To me, it just seems that whenever a series does an episode like that, it turns into something where story and character are put on hold for the sake of a message or moral. Even if the message or moral is good, if that's all the episode is about it just winds up feeling hokey and forced.
Thankfully, that was not the case with this episode.
I loved the whole "I've saved you--OOF!" thing at the waterfall. A nice way of continuing, and yet making fun of, Goliath's "always being there to catch Elisa" habit.
I actually didn't recognize Diane Maza--it had been a while since I'd seen her (or even heard her VOICE), and her character design looked a bit different (not just in wardrobe, something in the face, too). Regardless, I'm still glad she appeared, and I was VERY pleased that Elisa finally got word to (at least one of) her parents.
The Panther Queen story was, of course, fantastic. It never ceases to amaze me that it all took place in the first Act. It just seems to be "bigger" than the space allotted it. I was actually kind of surprised to learn that you guys made it up yourselves. Actually, I was even more surprised to find out in the original outline, "The Jaguar Queen" that you guys didn't even have Anansi!
Angela tries to view the world through the prism of her experience, wondering if Diane is a Queen or Magus. I always loved that.
Elisa's sheepish excuses around her mother always threw me--considering the circumstances (which any reasonably intelligent person would know could not be explained with "being on a case") the truth was obviously the only way to go. But like you said, Greg, Elisa's a little selfish with her secrets.
I sincerely wished that you guys had had enough time to put in some reference to Elisa's leaving Matt an (unreceived) message.
I love the looks on Angela and Goliath's faces during the, "You're right, parents and children should be able to discuss anything" sequence. Just as I like how when the gargoyles do join the action, Elisa just smiles while Diane's face takes on a more terrified/surprised expression.
One thing that always bothered me, though--Angela BENDS a spear, as though it were metal. Maybe it was, but it sort of looked like wood to me.
I loved the were-panther transformations. Especially in Karadigi. Just the way the humans stayed on four limbs for a bit after having transformed back.
I, too, enjoyed Goliath's rather surprised/pliant "Of course not" to Diane's proud statement, "I don't need looking after."
Actually, another interesting character bit here--Goliath was going to send everybody else off in one group and travel his path alone. He seems to have this kind of "I'm the big and strong one, so I can handle anything without any help," mentality. Shades of where the Eye of Odin would eventually take him?
Diane wonders why Goliath can't just fly out of the hole--again playing to human's initial assumptions on gargoyles. I just love how Goliath is so nonchalant about the tiny spiders crawling over him, or their webs hanging off him.
Elisa, Angela and Bronx's trap is pretty darn creepy--being entirely covered in a "web blanket."
The talks on parenting are well handled--they get the point across without being overbearing. Actually, it took me a while before I realized that Goliath's treatment of Angela was more out of personal fear rather than just following clan customs. And now that I think of it, Elisa's complaints about her mother reminds me of how she disagreed with Goliath's keeping Angela in the dark in SANCTUARY. Maybe that's why Angela's words meant so much to Elisa--she thought of how unhappy Angela is at NOT being able to talk about things with Goliath.
I was surprised with Tea's story about how Fara Maku marked her--it kind of switched who was the victim between the two. I loved Diane's line, "That's not love Fara. That's selfishness." That leads me to wonder how many people have let their own selfishness outweigh their love in relationships.
When Anansi finally makes his grand entrance, all I could think was, "DAMN, that's a BIG SPIDER!" Don't ask me how, but I just knew LeVar Burton had to be in this episode somewhere, and he did a great job as Anansi, though I could barely recognize his voice. If Anansi had ever taken human form, I would have loved hearing LeVar's un-altered voice.
When Anansi starts losing the battle, I love how his eyes take on a very worried look (almost makes me feel sorry for him), and he starts trying to placate our heroes with wishes.
I was surprised that you guys actually "killed" Anansi--I hadn't thought the little spider at the end was actually him (possibly because that spider was brown instead of purple), but I am glad for the thought.
As for Tea and Fara Maku's reconciliation...yes, I'm afraid I can't help but find it a little too easy. Again, this is one of those times that I wish GARGOYLES could have run longer. Heck, if Tea had been awake (and reacted) when Fara swore to serve Anansi forever if Tea was freed, it might have worked better for me.
The resolution between the parents and children was well done. Yeah, Goliath and Angela's was pretty sappy (mostly because of Angela's reaction, and the swell of the music, IMO--Goliath's always cool), but it was still okay. Diane's and Elisa's was just great, and I love Diane's line that sometimes love can be about "letting go".
Funny thing about Elisa's "No" at the end--I didn't even hear it until the second or third time I watched this ep. And I think you're right that the ending plays better without it.
GOLIATH THE PANTHER-GOYLE: Sometimes you can only see these things through the eyes of a child. ;-)
Seriously, though, it wasn't necessary, and from what I saw in the "Panther Queen" sequence, it looks like it has to be done in a very specific fashion. So I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
My ramble's a bit all over the map, but trying to do two rambles in one sitting is enough to tax anyone's brain. Suffice to say, this really is a great episode all around, and I enjoyed sharing my thoughts on it.
Looking forward to your next ramble!
Ugh, see... I have got to catch up here, because I haven't a clue as to what "Goliath the Panther-Goyle" refers to.
This is one of those episodes that has a lot I like, and a lot that I felt could have been better.
One of the latter was, of course, the "off" portrayal of the Dream Time. As Todd already said, the Dream Time is basically Antiquity. In that view, the Shaman's statement that the gargoyles come from the Dream Time makes sense. That being said, I DID like the battle that took place in the Dream Time (more on that later).
One thing that really struck me this time around was just how CALM everyone was when the Matrix started to go overboard. I mean, Fox and Anastasia are just calmly talking about the "Grey Goo Scenario" and how the world will end in just this straight (and sometimes rather flippant) manner while everyone else largely just stands looking serious. I mean, it's like everyone's going "Hmmm, we'll all most likely be dead in less than half an hour and the world will end...Hmmmm." In the case of Anastasia it kind of makes more sense (or will after will learn about her "double life") but with everyone else? Elisa seems to be the only one even close to panicking.
And, of course, the whole "Law and Order" thing.
But there was a lot about this I still liked.
Dingo was the big one. I'd been wondering what happened to him since GRIEF, and now here he is, trying to start over. I liked this--we've already seen good people "fall" throughout the series (Demona, of course, but also Macbeth, the Captain and even Renard for an episode), and some of those people redeemed themselves, of course. However, this was the first time that someone who we first saw as a villain actively tried to reform of his own volition. Not only did Dingo prove himself perhaps one of the smarter and more able-bodied members of the Pack when they were human, but also the most sane and...well, like you said, Greg, HUMAN. Actually, Dingo showed even more than the "quest for redemption"--his discussion about the nanites and comparing them to enzymes and the like indicated that he was probably far smarter than anyone ever gave him credit for.
On the subject of that conversation, two things that always stood out: Dingo's mention of Coyote (more continutity, and a bit of added depth to Coyote), and the "voice reverb" on the helmet. The way it subtly changes Dingo's voice right in mid-sentence when he puts it on (kudos to the sound team).
Also, Dingo's utilization of his suit was great. I loved how he used it as a sort of missile against Goliath by remote control. The removal of the helmet was a bit different here than in UPGRADE (Dingo had some sort of yellow hood, the front of the helmet rises like a mask, etc.).
Moving away from Dingo for a bit, I was also happy to finally meet Anastasia Renard, and extremely pleased to see a visibly pregnant Fox. That last part was important, simply because in most visual mediums there's a little "If you don't see it, it didn't happen" mentality, so this made Fox's pregnancy that much more REAL.
The Matrix itself was fairly interesting. I must admit, I was a bit surprised that the ultimate solution was not to destroy it, but to "convince it of its error."
Also, the "Grey Goo" did seem a bit more random than it perhaps should have been, but at least it was well animated.
I rather enjoyed the interactions between Dingo and our heroes. The first instinct on either side is to attack first, of course. And after escaping from the the Grey Goo together, our heroes' first thought is that Dingo had something to do with it (and they're actually right, but he's not THAT involved). And Dingo gets a bit defensive and even territorial about them being in Australia (loved the slang that Mr. Cummings put in there, BTW). When Dingo suggests that only he and Elisa see the Shaman, Elisa gets this great, almost disgusted look on her face, like someone asked her to swim through garbage. And, when Dingo's participation in Fox's research is revealed, and he tries to explain this isn't what he expected, he takes a step towards Elisa, who in turn takes a step back. I somehow get the feeling that Goliath's more apt to trust Dingo than Elisa would ever be.
Loved the music during the "Matrix chase" scene. Not so sure about the "white glow" that occurs whenever the goo passes through a surface.
Fox did have a rather "cliched villain" idea--a machine to transmogrify the world to suit the controlling individual. Yet, it seems to me that Fox is more enamoured with the *idea* and having the capability of doing that, than actually doing that. Again, she displays that she's more interested in fun than results (unlike her husband).
Actually, that's the funny thing--Xanatos is connected with this episode, but he really has nothing to do with what's going on (kind of like in MONSTERS).
The revelation to Goliath that Fox is Halcyon Renard's daughter was nice, I'm glad it made it in there, but it always just feels too quick. If only there had been more time--I would have loved Goliath's musings on that new bit of information.
Now, the Dream Time battle. I did notice that the combatants used what was familiar to them (in fact, a few of Goliath's gestures looked like he could have been invoking magical spells, and his psuedo-clan shot lightning from their hands). Of course, the Matrix still manages to best them, and only relents when Goliath says what I consider to be the best line in this episode, "Your peace is that of the grave!"
When Dingo talks about being a hero again, he's smiling. Think about it--how many times has Dingo given a genuine, happy smile.
And then the Matrix bonds with his suit, and Dingo becomes a new kind of hero; one whose adventures I would have been most interested in watching.
When my brother watched this with me (after having seen THE HOUND OF ULSTER the previous day) he remarked about the gang creating heroes wherever they go.
Batwave...y'know, it's funny. You probably started these rambles, before "The Batman" was even in development. :-)
And there's my ramble!
Thanks. It's a good one. Of course, the problem with the delay here at ASK GREG is that at this point it's been two years since I've seen "Walkabout"... or read my own ramble on the subject. "Batwave" just seems like a non sequitor to me now.
hey,Greg. What´s up??I am from argentina and yes :We love Gargoyles here too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I always see Brooklyn and Demona figthing when they are together but Who is more stronger?? I really think that Demona would kill him very easly if some one would give her the chance but...you know....
I really love when Demona and Macbeth start figthing is very cool. In the reckoning, Macbeth "lost" the figth,but Demona would shot him if Eliza would not stop her. She wanted die because wath had happened with Tailog or she was just angry at Macbeth and she really wanted to see HIM death.Besides it mas not posible.Allrigth, it is done. Chau
Demona vs. Brooklyn? It's all situational to me. Demona is without a doubt the WAY more experienced warrior, and as Brooklyn isn't yet, I feel, fully grown even, she may still be his equal or better physically. But motivation matters in battle as well. Both are pretty well-motivated at this point. I don't know... It's all situational to me.
And thanks for the kind words.
THE HOUND OF ULSTER
At last!! I say that both because it's a new ramble, and I'm finally able to add my own. I'll play catch up with your other additions over the weekend.
When I first saw this episode, both the "Previously on" segment and the title indicated that Bronx would get some exposure. I wasn't sure HOW since there's only so much you can do with a dog (or even a dog-like beast) without giving them some anthropomorphic qualities. Consequently, I think it makes since that Rory Dugan became the protagonist.
And yet, that in itself is unique. Here we have a non-regular being the main character of the episode--hightlighted with that wonderful "hero-shot" where the camera circles around Rory's face (well done bit of animation, that). I mean, I don't know of too many other series that do that (well, maybe there were some old "Batman: TAS" episodes that seemed to focus more on the villains, but they're the VILLAINS!)
I love Molly's character design--the hair-style, the eyes, the three belts (in technicolor!) around her waist.
Rory's vision of Crom Cruoch really threw me the first time I saw it. Then I completely forgot about it until the Banshee transformed at the end.
BTW, time out here to say kudos to the voice work all around. Colm Meaney's (sp?) guest turn was great. Scott Cleverdon did excellent work (and HE added the battle cry?! I love that thing!). And as for Sheena Easton, hey do I really need to say anything?
Loved the Banshee's keening! I have to wonder though...it seems to me that gargoyles have a stronger sense of hearing than humans, yet the Banshee's cry is apparantly more fatal to humans.
Anyway, I was a little surprised at our heroes sinking into the bog right off. Very tense the first time you see it, and a nice little character bit for Goliath--he turns from Elisa to try and save his daughter, but can't and turns back to find Elisa has already sunk beneath the surface. For a guy so big on protecting his loved ones that must have been a truly hellish moment.
But Bronx escapes and we get our first glimpse of the Banshee.
Rory's discussion with his Dad is interesting to me, mostly in how pessimistic and cynical Rory acts. One line of his that I always like (even if I don't agree with it): "There are no heroes anymore! Only villains! And they've got us all beat." Sometimes it's very easy to think that.
Our main heroes wake up trapped in the Cairn, and Goliath says that "a whole clan of gargoyles could not batter down these walls." That line always struck me for some reason.
A bit disconcerting that Elisa's muddy in this scene and clean in the next, but "meh".
And although Cuchullan's remains would have been nice, I don't really miss it (unlike the whole Anubis thing). Besides, how much of an unmummified corpse would be left after 2,000 years?
Rory meets Bronx and between the pooch's outlandish appearance and the legends of his father, Rory reacts in a perfectly reasonable way...he runs like hell. And falls off a cliff (looking at it from the wide shot, I can't help but think it's a miracle he survived).
BTW, the little memo you posted finally clears up why Bronx singled out Rory--the Banshee's scent. Yet Bronx can still sense that Rory's not an enemy.
The Banshee talks with our "main heroes." I can never stop noticing her rather exaggerated gestures. She must be a bit of a drama queen. I like her "ghost" form, though.
The Banshee does have that one character trait (which Todd has already mentioned) that annoys me to no end: she does not even consider the possibility that her prisoners might be telling the truth. And as you pointed out she could have just mesmerized it out of them (no fuss, no muss), which makes her behavior even more inexcusable.
After the Banshee hears Bronx and splits, and Angela says that Bronx will save them (she's got more faith in her pooch than I've ever had in any of mine, I'll admit), the camera starts to briefly zoom in before cutting to the next scene. I'm always wondering what got cut, if anything.
When Molly transformed into the Banshee...I figured they were both one and the same. At least, until Molly appeared in Rory's house the next day and said she'd go with him to the Cairn because she loved him. THAT cast some doubt in my mind.
"Be still little mortal and come quietly with me, into the dark." That line still sends my dirty little mind reeling with possibilities. ;-)
I like Mr. Dugan's attitude towards his son's visions: he may not entirely believe in them, but he's not about to go tempting fate in regards to them, either.
A little animation bit I only really started noticing after you mentioned exploring more of the relationship between Rory and Molly--when Rory strides down the hill towards the Cairn, Molly gets a sad/worried look on her face. Rory isn't looking at her so she doesn't have to act, but it's still there. It's more than just avoiding an old enemy that makes her want to keep Rory in the dark.
I love the voice acting in the Cairn--as the two characters talk, a bit more of each's "other" starts to creep into their speech.
I love the whole "Gae Bolga" scene.
"Skills may rust indeed, but true friendship stays bright." Y'know, because of the accent, I didn't understand what he was actually saying there for YEARS!
I always noticed how you guys had Goliath and Angela, the usual heavy hitters, get knocked away by Crom Cruach the instant they try to join the battle. Makes sense--this was Rory and Bronx's show!
"And there's no kind of training schemes for this job, I'll wager." Nope, and no pay either! Just ask Spider-man!
On the "Thor" subject, I never knew that much about Thor (either comic or mythology) until a bit after GARGOYLES, so for me this was fairly fresh.
Dog's (or gargoyle beasts) can look smug! I've seen it myself!
I always thought the "Previously on" segment for this episode felt awkward towards its end--your ramble helps clear that up.
One thing that struck me this time out was the Banshee's character design, especially in the face. It can move from beautiful to rather corpse-like.
Yes Cuchullan was the "Hound of Ulster," but only because he killed the original hound and vowed to act in its place until a new one was raised. Who's to say these hounds weren't gargoyle beasts?
Those "Hounds" were indeed Gargoyle Beasts in the Gargoyles Universe, and as I've learned more about the legend SINCE doing the episode, it seems to me that as Cu Chullain was replacing the "Hound" he killed, he would also be raising and training a new "Hound" to eventually take his place. That, to his mind, was the Hound of Ulster that he recognized in Bronx.
Or that's my current theory anyway.
One other thing about "Mark of the Panther" that I forgot to mention: I find it somehow amusing and appropriate that Elisa and Diane Maza would have a run-in with humans magically transformed into panthers in light of how a member of their family had already been turned into a panther-of-a-sort (though through science rather than through magic).
So you caught that. Good.
I was wondering, I have been looking around for my answer, and I couldn't find but ONE part of it.
I'm simply wondering if you could post the magic spells that are spoken in Latin here. I'd love to see them. Like when Magus turns the clan into stone, or the spell to part the mists into the Isle of Avalon etc. The only one I could find in this page was the spell to make the Phoenix Gate work.
"Deflagrate muri tempi et intervalia!" Which means, "Burn down the walls of time and space!"
Thank you for your time.
I can't remember off the top of my head all the spells we used, and I'm not going to go script by script through 65 scripts to find them all...
But here are the two you specified...
Dormiatis dum castellum super nubes ascendant.
Vocate venti fortunate,
Ex ricae Oberonis,
Et hic navis frugum regate,
Ad orae Avalonis.
hey greg i am a big fan of the gargoyles i watch every chance i get and i was wondering (it would be awesome)if there is going to be a live action movie or if there is what is the progress of it?
As I've stated before, the live-action movie which Touchstone Pictures (a division of Disney) had in script development for years as been shelved. No progress to report.
1) Is Nokkar the Sentinel aware of the cloaked island of New Olympus or has New Olympian technology being able to fool the technology developed by his kind?
2) How did the New Olympians manage to create such advanced technology years ahead of human technology when they had a much smaller population and less resources for research and development when in regard human civilizations have been inventing continuously. For example even through humanity was in the Dark Age in Western Europe, people were still developing stuff in the MidEast and the Far East.
So in short order how did the New Olympians get so ahead? Did they just bypass or skip some of the technologies that humanity has or were they just really brillant at inventing stuff.
1. Well, without confirming whether or not Nokkar COULD have seen through their cloak, I think the short answer is that he DIDN'T see through it. Had no reason to look. He's looking outward for an external attack. That's where his sensors are aimed.
2. Continuity helps. A few brilliant individuals who are able to build upon the work of their predecessors without interference and are given the resources can do amazing things in very few generations. Scattered advancement (two steps forward, one step back) across continents with little or no communication doesn't encourage speed of development. I also think an open mind helps too. Who believed that a man could fly in the so-called real world? A few people certainly, but until the Wright Brothers proved it, not the masses. On New Olympus, lots of their citizens can already fly. So making the leap to creating a chariot to accomidate those without wings or other flight capabilities isn't quite as difficult.
1) Why did the producers of the show go with iron as the general weakness for Oberon's Children when many of them like Raven, Odin or Anubis were figures from mythologies that didn't see iron as a sort of "god kryptonite". In fact the Fenris wolf from norse mythology was able to snap his iron chains and had to be finally chained with a magical one and many of the gods and demons of the Far East didn't seem to have a problem with iron.
2)In relation to the first question why was Oberon the king and lord of the third race that included such beings as Odin and possibly Zeus and other godhead when in the traditional stories he was just a minor king of the fairies or elves?
In general I'm just rather curious why you put so many of the qualities found in fairies and elves such as Oberon and the iron weakness onto mythological figures such as Odin, Coyote or Anasi which in the end from my point of view kind of diminishes the gods.
1) When combining so many mythologies, certain choices have to be made. Since we were putting a traditional "fairy" figure like Oberon at the top of our feudal pyramid, using iron made sense. I understand your objection, even sympathize with it, but I also don't regret our decision.
2) Well, a short answer is that we wanted to diminish the gods a bit... or put another way, we wanted to create a unifying system for them all. A feudal system. Oberon and Titania got priority, because in general SHAKESPEARE got priority. Titania, as far as I know, is not a traditional figure but an invention of ol' Will's. I've always freely admitted to being a Shakespeare fanatic, so his characters, including Macbeth, Oberon, Titania, Puck, the Weird Sisters, etc. were always going to have featured roles in this series. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference, and I was the guy in charge. That doesn't make me RIGHT in some transcendent sense, just means that I had the right to create the universe I wanted to play in. So I did.
Just so that I've gotten this straight - so in the very first outline for "Mark of the Panther", it was were-jaguars rather than were-panthers? I'm glad that that was changed; since jaguars live in South America rather than Africa, it'd be pretty strange seeing one (ordinary or were) showing up in Nigeria.
Yep, and that's why the change was made of course. We got the beast wrong. So we fixed it.
Thanks for the ramble on "Mark of the Panther". (Boy, we're really coming along well with the rambles now! Isn't it great?) Here are my thoughts on it.
One of the moments that still most stands out to me is the legend of the Panther Queen that was incorporated into the story; the change of animation to set the old tale apart from the present-day action was a particular delight for me. (Although I hadn't even thought until you mentioned it that somebody tuning into "Gargoyles" during this story could have mistakenly believed that they were watching a different television program.)
I've read a little about Anansi before the series came out, though I'm no expert upon him. One thing that I had learned about him, which I think that the episode captures accurately, is that his tricks and schemes had a tendency to backfire upon him - and this is what happens in both the Panther Queen story and the main action. In the Panther Queen story, Anansi, indignant about having to turn the Panther Queen's son into a panther, banishes all the humans from Karadigi - and then realizes too late that he's just sacked his entire hunting force, so who's going to bring him food now? And in the present day, Anansi's getting Fara Maku to hunt for him worked too well - he gorged himself to such an extent that, once out of his web, he was too fat and unwieldy to fight the gargoyles effectively.
Diane's helping to resolve satisfactorally the problem of Goliath's difficulty in acknowledging Angela as his daughter reminds me of something that you once said about why they generally leave mothers out of Disney movies: the mother, if she was there, could have found a solution to the problem so quickly that there'd be barely any story. And once Elisa's mother shows up, she does indeed help solve the Goliath-Angela problem (though without preventing there from being a story).
And I picked up (by the last time that I saw this episode, a few months ago - I regularly watch my "Gargoyles" tapes every summer) on the link between Diane telling Fara Maku about his desire to keep Tea by his side "That's not love; that's selfishness" and her telling Elisa at the end that love is about letting go.
The moment that you mentioned about Diane telling Goliath with a certain indignant dignity "I don't need protection" and Goliath saying "Of course" always amused me - and I found myself also thinking of "mother-in-law" towards Diane at that moment.
The first time that I saw this episode, I thought that Anansi had indeed been slain at the end, though "The Gathering Part One" proved me wrong on that. And, truth to tell, I'm kind of glad that the Children of Oberon are so difficult to kill and that we haven't had any genuine deaths among them as yet in the series. After all, they are (or the bulk of them are) traditional figures in humanity's own myths and legends, part of our cultural heritage. Obviously, a genuine death for Anansi wouldn't result in everyone forgetting the tales about him, but still, his passing, or the passing of any other member of the Third Race, would somehow (to me, at least) diminish the "tapestry of story" that we have gained from them. (When we get to "The Gathering Part Two", I'll mention how Oberon's sentence upon Puck has a similar, if not as strong, impact upon me.)
Thanks also for telling us about how Bronx somehow reminded you and your family of Norman again. (I wonder now how the Cagney scenes in "Gargoyles" would have affected me if I'd seen any of them between the time that my old cat Merlin passed on, two months ago, and the time that I adopted my new kitten Obie.) Norman sounds like he must truly have been quite a dog.
Norman was indeed quite a dog. I miss him still. We have two new old dogs now, Sammi & Abraham and we still have our cat Bigtime, but we recently lost our cat Iggy during a power outage. And when I say "lost" I mean that literally. Heat wave. Power outage. Open windows. He must have run off. But he hasn't come back.
Kinda know how Hudson felt about Bronx during the World Tour. So I'm hoping Iggy's having fun in his own personal Avalon.
How did Elisa know how to wake up Sleeping King Arthur in Avalon part 3?
The Magus filled her in off-camera.
If Gargoyles hadn't (temporarily) ended when it did, would it still be going or would you have run out of material by now? 10 years is a lot of episodes. How many eps per season would there have been anyways? 13, 52, or somewhere in between.
Well, there are SO many "ifs" in your hypothetical question, I don't know how to evalute the specifics. But I am QUITE confident that I would not have run out of material by now. The new comic book can easily go twice that long assuming sales support us.
As for how many episodes per season, that's a financial question, not a creative one. We didn't do 13 in season one and 52 in season two for creative reasons, but for financial ones. Likewise the decision to make 13 in Season 3 (Goliath Chronicles) was again financial. So in the intervening seasons, the answer is zero per season, for what Disney perceived as financial reasons. So how to evaluate financials for a hypothetical non-existent season is impossible.
Thanks for the Election Day present, Greg - namely, the "Walkabout" ramble! Here's some thoughts of mine on it in response.
For a start, I missed this episode the first time around (due to my moving to my first Central West End apartment the day that it first aired), so I only got to see it during later showings (by which time, of course, I'd seen "The Gathering" and knew the real story about Anastasia Renard). Fortunately, it didn't ruin the episode for me.
Generally, I have difficulties with the notion of an artificial intelligence as the antagonist (whether a computer, a robot, or what-have-you) - when it's a deliberate antagonist, that is, as opposed to just following orders like the Steel Clan robots or Renard's cybots - because I find it a little too difficult to imagine a machine becoming evil. I believe (like Goliath in "Outfoxed") that it takes a living being to engage in motives of good or evil. So, for example, I usually have a hard time accepting a computer or robot out to conquer the world since that would require it to have emotions (power-hunger, greed, paranoia of the "I've got to conquer them before they conquer me" variety), which I can't imagine an artificial intelligence developing. That said, I found that Matrix's actions in "Walkabout" worked for me since it wasn't out to reformat the world out of "villainous motives" but merely because it was obeying its programming, to create order, and thought that it was carrying out its duty. It might not even have understood, at that stage in its development, that its bringing order to the world would mean disaster to all living things on the planet. So the Matrix worked for me.
(I might add that one of my favorite bits in the episode comes when Goliath is protesting repeatedly to the Matrix in the Dreamtime that its form of order would bring about death to everyone on Earth, and the Matrix replies, in this almost desperate fashion "But we must have order." It said that in a way that felt, to me, as if it was beginning to understand at last what Goliath was saying, but still had the problem that its programming demanded that it produce order, and it couldn't go against its programming.)
I'd gotten fond of Dingo after "Upgrade", and so I enjoyed seeing him again, wanting to make a change for the better. The touch that I especially liked was his mentioning about how he'd used to be a hero to a lot of people when he was on the Pack's television series, and wants to go back to that, only this time being a real hero rather than just playing one on television.
You're correct about the "Dreamtime" being not quite accurate; a friend of mine who knows more about Australian Aborigine legend than I do pointed out that the Dreamtime was actually a "mythical time period" when the world was being created rather than some sort of other dimension.
I liked your mention of how the Avalon World Tour was supposed to take the cast to every inhabited continent (the "inhabited" part would explain the absence of Antarctica - which you were planning on sending King Arthur and Griff to, anyway). Technically, they don't set foot in South America unless you enlarge its boundaries to include Central America (in this case, Guatemala), and don't set foot on mainland Asia (as opposed to Japan) in the television series (though there's your Himalayas story that you'd planned for the Gargoyles comic to make up for that).
I got a chuckle out of Erin's response to the name "Matrix" in connection to the movies.
Of course, another big element is the introduction of Anastasia Renard on stage at last, plus seeing Fox pregnant. (I've sometimes wondered whether there were any S&P issues with that part.) I especially liked Goliath realizing that Fox is Renard's daughter after being introduced to Anastasia.
Again, thanks for the ramble. I'm really looking forward to more to come.
I don't recall any particular S&P problems with Fox's pregnancy. Though I definitely feel that the mere fact that we were allowed to have Fox get pregnant was something of a miracle.
Thanks for the first new Ramble in a year, Greg. I really enjoyed reading the "Hound of Ulster" one, and hope that this is the first of many more to come in the last couple of months of 2004; I've been eagerly awaiting the rambles for the last 22 episodes of "Gargoyles" that you worked on, after getting the rambles for the first 44.
I only saw the first half of the episode the first time that it aired (I was in the middle of a move from the suburbs to the Central West End of St. Louis in early 1996, and so missed the end due to working on the move with my family). And by the time that I got to see the whole thing through, I'd already seen "The Gathering", complete with the Banshee's fate at the hands of Oberon. Not that it hurt things that much. Since then, I watch my taped version of it regularly each St. Patrick's Day, as a holiday tradition. The big pity is that I can no longer remember my initial response to it (such as whether I thought that Molly was a person independent of the Banshee whom the Banshee merely masqueraded as once or twice, or whether they were one and the same). Sorry about that.
I was amused to discover that you'd originally thought of calling this one "A Bronx Tail" in light of how the Goliath Chronicles used that title later on. (I recall that they also used that title in the "Gargoyles" comic book series, at one point.)
I honestly hadn't thought of the Lassie connection with Bronx until you mentioned it (but then, I know Lassie more by reputation). (I did catch the Wizard of Oz quotes right away, though.)
I'm a bit puzzled by your mention of a certain "Liscoo". Is that the name of Rory's hometown (if so, it obviously didn't make it into the dialogue of the completed episode)?
You were correct in not using the term "Barghest" for that episode, since it's indeed linked to northern England (those viewers who were already aware of the discrepancy from the original Cuchulain legend would have let you have it even more if the term "Barghest" had gotten into an Irish story!). But I like the notion of associating gargoyle beasts with the "black dogs" of Britain and Ireland. The "black dogs" of British and Irish folklore do match gargoyle beasts; they're generally nocturnal, are awe-inspiring creatures that can strike fear into people's hearts, and yet often appear in the role of protectors, despite their fearsome quality. So Bronx playing the role of one of them works.
I find the "dwarves made my shoes" line appropriate, since one of the most famous mythical denizens of Ireland is the leprechaun, and leprechauns are dwarflike shoemakers. (Was that line intended as a direct reference to leprechauns, or is it just another neat coincidence?)
(Another piece of trivia: the Cromm-Cruach - the Banshee's "death-worm" form - or, more precisely, its namesake in Irish mythology, was the source for the name of Crom, the god worshipped by - or, more accurately, sworn by - Conan the Barbarian. Robert E. Howard, the man who originally created Conan, had the habit of borrowing almost all of his names from actual legend and ancient history.)
I'd thought myself (after a couple of showings of the episode, though not right away) that there is a certain similarity between Rory/Cuchulain and the Mighty Thor of Marvel Comics (both modern-day people who become "real" mythical figures after discovering a stick that transforms into the mythical figure's traditional weapon). Hopefully you'll be able to solve it if you ever bring the series back long enough for Rory to show up again.
And, yep, the Banshee did pass up the opportunity to mesmerize her prisoners. (She also showed that annoying tendency that so many interrogators have of "I've already made up my mind about whether you're innocent or guilty, so all the evidence that you're innocent won't mean a thing to me." A bit like Nokkar later on in "Sentinel", in fact.)
I share your delight in Rory's dad's lack of enthusiasm at seeing Molly. I also enjoy the parts where Rory warms to Bronx (particularly where he actually rides him).
And, yep, it wound up being mainly Rory's episode - but Bronx still got a big role in it.
I have long term plans for more on Rory, Banshee and even--
Oh no, it's the SLG SPOILER POLICE!
"Damn it, Weisman! Save SOME surprises for the comic book!! Don't make us punish you ... again!"
Sorry to ask this again, but, here it goes...
What did Titania whisper to Fox at the end of "The Gathering, Part 2"?
Here are my reasons for you answering this question:
1. It's been long enough. Time to answer this question.
2. It's a burning question that most people want answered.
And another question:
Would what she whispered to Fox be important in a future episode or spin-off?
Your reasoning seems faulty to me.
1. It's almost been too long. I think at this point my answer would be anti-climactic.
2. I know there's a contingent that doesn't want the answer, but just cuz some fans think they want it, doesn't mean they're right to want it.
And in any case, I have promised to reveal the answer when the Gathering has five hundred or more attendees, and not before. So if you really want the answer, help us scare up attendance for Pigeon Forge!
As for your final question, all things come around in Gargoyles.
How would the gargs vote in the election 2004? Also please include the votes for Owen, Elisa, and Xanatos.
I'm still back in 1996.
My question relates to the video game "Kingdom Hearts" made by Disney and Square-Enix. For those who haven't played it, the game features worlds, plots, and characters from Disney's many movies and cartoons, even going so far as to get many of the original voice actors to voice the characters. Disney/Square are currently making the sequel Kingdom Hearts 2, and if that game does as well as the first, possibly even a Kingdom Hearts 3. It may be entirely possible that the Gargoyles could be added into one of these two games. Would Disney even consider doing something like this? If it happened, would Disney contact you about a possible plotline for the Gargoyles section of the game? Thanks a bunch.
I think it would be great, but I have no idea how to make it happen. Don't even know whom to talk to about it. If Disney or Square or whomever decided to include Gargoyles, I would hope they'd come to me. But I can't be sure they would.
When will the first season of Gargoyles be released in the UK, I already know it will be released 7th December in the United States and I've found no information that it will even be released in the UK.
I don't know even now (nearly two years later). Was it released in the U.K.?
What kind of buildings were gargoyles found on originally?
In which culture?
In western culture, mostly cathedrals and castles. But there are a ton of gargoyles on less impressive buildings as well.