A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Greg, I hope you can read this. I am a homosexual, and Lexington is my favorite gargoyle. It really hit me hard, and it's still hitting me, that i found out, that in the gathering, it was said that Lexington is gay. I sadly understand why the show was cancelled. The world doesn't accept gay people any more than gargoyles were being accepted in the show before "Angels of the Night". It's very hard for me to cry, but this made me well some tears, that to a sad extent, i have found this connection, between one of your characters, that has now grown so greatly. Lexington is no longer my favorite, he is a kindred soul, he is gay and in hiding like i am, and this makes me love the show more. I know you are busy Greg, but, if we can ever talk, I would very much like to. If not, I leave you with a thanks, for giving me a kindred soul, even. if he does not exist.
Thank you Greg Weisman, thank you Thom Adcox-Hernandez. Thank you.
Okay just to clear up a few things...
1. The show was ABSOLUTELY NOT cancelled because of Lexington's sexual orientation. That "fact" was not revealed in any real way until YEARS after the show went off the air.
2. Lex is NOT in the closet. He's not yet -- as of issue #5 of the comic book (the issue I'm currently writing) -- fully aware of his orientation. He's young. Give him time.
3. I don't mean it as any kind of personal slight, but I don't make direct contact with the fans through ASK GREG. If I did it for one person, I'd have to do it for everyone, so I cannot open those floodgates.
Having said all that, I'm gratified that the series and the character of Lexington mean something to you. I'm sure Thom feels the same way. Thank you for your kind words.
i had a question about the gargoyles season 1 dvd sales rank. is the sales rank for 700's, 800's, 900's, 1000's strong and good and do you think that gargoyles season 1 dvd is selling very well? when will we begin discussing about the gargoyles season 2 dvd on what date/day of february? thank you.
This is all old news now. Disney never gave me hard numbers on either DVD release. But I was told that Season One sold just on the good side of the cusp. Season Two Volume One did not achieve that same semi-dubious standard. Not as many people bought Season Two Volume One as bought Season One. There are no current plans to release Season Two Volume Two for that reason. If you and the rest of the fandom want to see it, they need to SPREAD THE WORD!
We now need to sell MORE units than we would have originally because we have to get Disney's attention all over again.
LOVE the opening shot on the mask!
This was an episode I had been waiting for ever since I had read about the second season introducing Japanese gargoyles. Actually, this clan managed to make itself distinctive in more ways than mere physicality (although, even that was unique--Japanese gargoyles seem to have a profusion of horns, spurs and juts, and I love the "dragon-dog"). Their facing inward was an excellent touch, as was connecting them to samurai. Actually, this ep was the first place I'd ever heard about Bushido.
I never really picked up on the parrallels between this and AWAKENING until you mentioned them some time ago, Greg. Now, I can hardly understand how I missed them. Maybe because I never took Taro as seriously as Xanatos--I mean, c'mon...a theme park?! Xanatos wants immortality and his own super team. No contest, man. And whereas Demona was focused on "getting rid of the humans," Yama wants just the opposite: greater contact. Unfotunately, he seems to want it not just in his own lifetime, but immediately. Haste makes waste, I guess.
However, this time out, I really noticed the similarity between Kai and Goliath. Even in physicality--they've got the same damn chin!
Actually, I was quite surprised to see a couple gargoyles that looked even bigger and more muscular than Goliath.
And I do wish we had seen more of Sora. She had a very unique look (and not just because she's the only two-toed gargoyle I've seen). Exotic and beautiful. The chance of a guest appearance by her alone is enough to make me want "BAD GUYS" on the air. And she's Yama's mate! That guy didn't know how good he had it!
Of course, the biggest thing was the fact that the humans and gargoyles were buddies. It was nice to actually see gargs being able to stand in the street rubbing shoulders with the human inhabitants. One does wonder how it remains "the best kept secret in Japan" if they occasionally capture crooks from out of town (like the ones we meet at the beginning). I guess if a town has "monsters" on its side you'd just as soon leave and forget about it.
Yama and Taro's little asides indicate early on that they're up to something. It's very easy here--and later on with his rather stand-offish attitude--to assume Yama is as complete a villain as Taro. But Yama really does want a better life for his clan (and his kind in general), and that's probably why he remains blind to Taro's true nature until he hears about the press.
I, too, love Goliath's line, "And you will solve this problem by charging admission." I also love Taro's reaction--he ignores it.
"Gargoyle must not fight gargoyle!" I had never seen "Planet of the Apes" before this, so I didn't get that little tribute initially. Instead, it seemed like a further indication of the Ishimura clan's cultural distinctiveness--that they have some sort of "law" specifically stating this.
Hiroshi's sacrifice (of his car). Having been through three accidents myself (and with my brother's poor car being totalled this past weekend), I feel so sorry for Hiroshi here. I love the way he asks, "Is this the only way?"
Actually, Hiroshi seems to have a pretty good sense of humor about him. "Excuse me. I was looking for the snack bar."
It took me a while before I got the "TV stars" joke.
One bit I really started noticing recently is when Kai says to Yama something along the lines of, "You helped build this, so YOU may stay." Nowadays, that bit seems to indicate the "start" of Yama's exile.
What did that little gargoyle-head that Taro pulled do? Set off a silent alarm of some kind?
Taro dresses as a Samurai--even while deriding Bushido.
The electric fans are an excellent touch (and I love the shot of Taro passing them in front of his face).
Yama partially redeems himself here by taking on Taro. He sure is tough--look at the way he takes both fans on the shoulders! However, there is a moment in here I can't help but laugh at--Yama says, "He's mine" and squares off against Taro, only to be knocked down by an electric blast within five seconds.
For a character as arrogant as Taro (and that arraogance is part of the reason he failed), his humiliating "press conference" is an excellent punishment. And, of course, Elisa and Hiroshi don't help him (it's great the way they just throw themselves into their little act). And the Frank Welker-goylebot is just great.
Like Todd, I have to question Taro's holding the press conference at dawn. I suppose Taro just wanted to be sure the gargoyles didn't have any real time to escape, but if so it was a wasted effort.
Some other random thoughts:
Taro was voiced by an actor named James Saito. I'm wondering if this is the same James Saito who starred in the "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" movie as the Shredder (the body, his voice was dubbed by another actor).
RE: Taro and Bruno having the same type of dart gun. Check the bottom--it's probably got "Made in Japan" stamped on it. ;-)
You don't consider being a "living walkaround character in a theme park" hell? I know I would!
It would have been nice to have some Japanese language in this ep (people forget that "Batman: The Animated Series" managed to pull it off), but at least samurai and Bushido were brought up.
I love how Yama JUST dodges the knife.
And Elisa in a kimono. 'Nuff said.
I really do enjoy this episode, and am only sad that we couldn't see more of Yama, Sora and the rest of the clan (here or in "Bad Guys").
Technically, the line is a tribute to "BATTLE FOR the Planet of the Apes".
Here's my ramble (better late than never).
Up front I'll say this ep is always a bit difficult for me to watch because of the "unfairly accused" angle with Nokkar and the gargoyles. Injustice in any form has always raised my hackles, and the way Nokkar is so convinced of the gargoyles' guilt (without any REAL evidence) just ticks me off.
I admit, Nokkar gets less slack from me than either Talon or the Banshee in this regard. Talon was being deliberately deceived (by Xanatos--'nuff said), and the Banshee was a bit of an unscrupulous character anyway, but Nokkar is acting on his own judgement AND he's supposed to be the GOOD GUY! The sheer certainty with which he pronounces the gargoyles as invaders just strikes me as...well, deplorable.
I understand that he's a "sentinel" and all that, but still...if nothing else the fact that he couldn't identify "[their] planet of origin" should have sent off some warning lights in his head. Elisa bringing up "gargoyle statues" may not have immediately turned Nokkar's mind to the moai raised in his honor, but he might have at least thought to pursue that line of inquiry. And how long would it take for Elisa's memory to come back? A sentinel may not be "permitted to take prisoners" but he had no problem holding the gargoyles until he had them all, and had given Elisa the tour of his ship. Would it have been so bad to wait until Elisa's memories had returned?
Like I said, Nokkar's a good guy--and with Elisa he's down right pleasent (real nice and gentle--so just seeing how certain he is when he's in the wrong is very frustrating to me.
It can also be frustrating when Goliath is trying his best to (re-)connect with an amnesiac Elisa, but fun at the same time. One thing I've noticed is that Goliath's familiarity with Elisa kind of worked against him in the hotel room. I mean, his entrance (and line, "I'm afraid I cannot allow that") and behavior are almost the sort of things you'd expect from a villain, but he's just trying to protect his...uh, friend (his GOOD friend).
Actually, I love that line: "Elisa, please. We've been friends for over a year--GOOD friends! We've been...--"[I've always wondered if he was about to stumble into a verbal declaration of love here, but instead he follows it up with]--"traveling together with my daughter, Angela, and Bronx."
I, too, enjoy Elisa's calling him Tiny. And the "Holy Grail" bit was just sweet.
Goliath loves histrionics. Just look at the way he gestures when saying "The Castle...Xanatos...Gargoyles!"
I really like the presentation of Nokkar in terms of his physicality, and his technology. He truly is quite alien (I wonder if any fans have tried to puzzle out his science). Watching the episode today, I noticed just how tube like his body is--thin and ramrod straight. His weapons and ship are also fairly unique--the laser-tongue and mini-bot especially.
Still, it always throws me off how, when blasted, his seemingly metal ship appears to have the consistency of stone. Oh, well.
The archeologists from "LIGHTHOUSE..." return--much to my surprise. I had honestly expected never to see them again. I suppose it would have been a bit much for Dr. Sato from "DEADLY FORCE" to show up here as well. ;)
I'm glad to hear John Rhyes-Davies as Morwood-Smyth again (I apologize for my spelling here).
Actually, it's good voice acting all around as usual. Salli does a great job with Elisa's confusion and fear. Even Clyde Kusastsu (sp?) makes his "Dr. Arnada" sound different from the character he will be playing in our next episode.
Special note must be given to Avery Brooks and Nokkar's particular sound. Avery Brooks has a very distinctive way of speaking, and it works quite well for an alien who has had to learn English as a second (or even third or fourth) language. Also, the sound guys did a great job with the modulation for Nokkar--it has led me to speculate how his voice box must function.
The destruction of the Moai head...yeah, that always disturbed me, too.
I'm not sure what my initial reaction was to extraterrestrials being introduced into gargoyles like this, but I never had any problems with it. Some folks, I think, found it a bit TOO out there, but I just viewed it as another story possibility (and I have to admit I am VERY interested in G2198--though I do hope we see some of how Arnada and the Archeologists adjust to this new wrinkle in their lives).
As for putting the "Gargoyles are aliens" theory to rest...I think you'd have to insert a clip of yourself saying something like, "They're not aliens, they never were, they're completely home grown--get used to it." And even THAT might not stop it.
Random thought: Did Elisa remember the incantation to get to Avalon? Did Goliath teach it to her before sleeping? If not, that's going to be one LONG day at sea--especially with that storm on the horizon.
Ya gotta figure that before he turned to stone, he'd have given Elisa the info she needed.
If I could pet a gargoyle's wings, what's the closest thing they would feel like?
Depends on whose wings.
Well, you're not going to be reading this for awhile, so it's kind of pointless, but:
I just wanted to tell you that I'm really enjoying your Buffy character rankings.
I started watching Angel second or third season and had seen a few episodes of Buffy but never got to into it. But now I'm getting the DVDs off of Netflix, so I'm getting of watch them all.
It's nice to read your rankings affter I finish a seson, it's just hard to wait until I finish.
Well, keep it up, thanks.
I will. One last season left to do.
Re: "Cloud Fathers"
Wile E. 4.0??? LOL
Xanatos: "It's so hard to program good help these days." LOL
Seriously, There is a great deal of great writing in this episode. The quotes you pointed out are just some great examples of how great the writers on this series were.
1) Did you write lines like those, "The deep end," "Hard to program good help..." or was that purly the writers?
Peter V. Carlos: "Cloud Fathers" deals with a serious topic. I know someone like Peter who hasn't spoken to a relative for a while. I know what it does to people, so I know what Peter might have been going through.
The Pool: I know it was a swimming pool right off the bat. My friends and I watched "Gargs" at 4:30 (we did it almost every weekday together) and I remember saying to my friends, "Man, that Skiff goes everywhere! Will it show up in my bathtub?"
I actually hated this episode the first few tiems I saw it. My friend (who i watched the show with) is Native, from New Mexico (He moved to Canada) and he thought the episode mocked native culture. Well we were wrong, and we actually like the episode a whole lot more now.
1. Most of it, I'm sure, was the writers, though I did tend to throw in a line here and there, and/or tweak a line here or there. And of course, great lines are nothing without great line-readings... so credit also our actors and Voice Director.
And we certainly weren't trying to mock Native Culture at all. In fact, we ran the script by an expert or two to make sure we were being respectful.
Thanks for the "Cloud Fathers" ramble, Greg!
I will confess that I can't remember from my first-time viewing whether I was surprised or not by the revelation at the end that Carlos Maza had passed on. However, I do find myself wondering, whenever I watch it on tape now, whenever either Elisa or Beth asks Peter if he wants to "go visit grandfather" while he's in town, how many first-time viewers did suspect that Carlos was dead, and how many were surprised.
Arizona, incidentally, now has a little more personal significance to me than it did when the episode first aired; my mother and stepfather moved there a few years ago (they live in the Phoenix area). They've sometimes mentioned Flagstaff in conversations with me, but haven't as yet mentioned anything about sand-carvings of Coyote or Kachina dancers. :)
Xanatos's "cliched villainy" line is a particular favorite of mine; only Xanatos would make such a remark! Though the bit where he admits that he has no desire to kill Goliath or any of the other gargoyles - this is just a necessary part of his coyote-trap - definitely stands out to me as well. You don't see the main antagonist saying that to the hero too often in an animated adventure series!
I liked the touch of the Cauldron of Life being incorporated into Coyote 4.0. (As I mentioned once in chat, it reminds me a bit of the scene in "Camelot 3000" where Mordred incorporates the Holy Grail into his armor.) The mention of the iron obviously was a foreshadowing of what was coming in the very next episode. (Was Xanatos's follow-up remark of "Ironic" intended as a pun, by the way?)
I also got a kick out of the mild confusion over "Which Coyote are we talking about here?" - the best part of all being when Coyote the Trickster threatens to sue Xanatos for trademark infringement. (And Xanatos's response that he's a "trickster at heart" rings true to me - the man's living proof that you don't have to be a Child of Oberon to be a trickster. He fulfills the archetype just as surely as Puck, Raven, and the rest do.)
I hadn't noticed the similarity of the Coyote robot to Wile E. Coyote until you mentioned it here at "Ask Greg" (not in this ramble, but in earlier answers to questions), but I certainly see it now. (Though, judging from the name of a certain merchant in "Vendettas", Coyote the robot isn't the only "Gargoyles" character to be influenced by Wile E. Coyote!)
So the multiple trickster story was what you'd originally planned for the Puck-and-Alex story before you decided to merge it with the Cold Trio for "Possession"?
Thanks for another enjoyable ramble, Greg.
I'm not sure the iron/ironic thing was an intentional pun. But it was so long ago, I may have forgotten.
The Multi-Trickster story was indeed slotted for our 64th episode... with Reckoning planned as our 65th. Then at some point, we learned that Hunter's Moon would not be a direct to video, but would instead have to be folded into our regular series. So HM1-3 became episodes 63-65. Reckoning was moved back to 61, so that we'd have at least a little Demona distance between Reckoning and HM. And then we had to combine a few springboards to make room for Hunters Moon. (For example, Vendettas was a combo of two springboards: (1) Vinnie's Vendetta and (2) Hakon & Wolf's Vendetta.)
So another couple of springboards we combined were the Multi-Trickster story and the Coldtrio story. Cary Bates and I worked the combo for some time, but we finally RAN OUT OF TIME. We were on deadline, and we just couldn't crack a story with so much going on. So we simplified back down to one Trickster, i.e. Puck.
been a looong time since i sent in something to Ask Greg. i didn't want to contribute to the backlog unless i had a good question. and my guess is that this will be answered on November 29th, 2006... lets see how close i get this time (usually i'm at least 6 months off)
you recently posted your ramble for Cloud Fathers and i had a question. you wrote:
"We finally get to know Elisa's other sibling -- the non-mutated one. She seems like an interesting character. Very open-minded. Influenced by her mother's more academic and anthropological pursuits, but choosing to focus on the Native American side of her heritage as opposed to the African side that her mother studies.
It's interesting to me that Elisa is the only one of the siblings who really directly follows in a parent's footsteps."
now, that last statement struck me as odd because as you had previously mentioned Beth was following in her mothers athropological footsteps, even though her study takes her to a different culture, and Derek was in the police force, for a while following in his father's footsteps. so i guess i'm wondering what you meant in your statement, because it seems to me even more interesting that ALL the Maza kids followed in their parents footsteps.
and in a related question, what was Beth's official Major and when did she graduate? and for that matter what do you suppose she is doing in 2005?
October 26th, 2006. I'm a month early! YAY!
Yeah, that statement was perhaps a bit glib. So I'll back off it rather than explain it. (I think the explanation is obvious anyway, just particularly feeble.)
Beth's major, I'd imagine is Anthropology. But it's not a field I studied, so it may be more specific than that. So I won't be held to it.
As for the rest of your questions, I'm not going to confirm or deny her graduation or reveal what she might or might not be doing in the so-called present. The comic is currently set in 1996, and I don't want to reveal anymore than I already have.
I looked at your resume and saw that you worked on Robotech: Mars Force. Is there any information you can divulge about that project? Such as when it might come out on TV. Any info about the show would be greatly appreciated.
I signed a confidentiality agreement, so the ONLY info I have for you on the project is that my development was passed on.