A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Where can I find the Gargoyles DVD Set aside from Amazon and other online ordering sites?
I don't know. At this point, you'd have to hunt it down or order it at the desk at any place that sells DVD. That's why Amazon is the easiest route.
A Memphis Reminder...
This weekend I'll be at Con-Sequential in Memphis, TN.
I'm participating in panels on Gargoyles, writing comics and cartoons, strong female characters and self-promotion. I'm also doing two signings, and I'll have a table manned by staffers from the Gathering 2007.
For more info on Con-Sequential check out:
Hope to see a few of you there, and if you make it please stop by and say hello!
Happy Year 2005!!
Here's hoping this question gets answered by December 31, 2005.
1)Are the Illuminati Society really interested in capturing a gargoyle?
1a)If so, why?
Sorry, how's October of 2006. That's only ten months late, right?
Anyway, at least I'm answering 2005 questions now, finally. Felt like 2004 was never gonna end!
1. They were. Whether they still are is something you'll need to read the comic book to discover.
1a. Not telling.
I recently got the DVD and there's little enough I can say about the episodes without launching into long rambles.
I looked at the extras, the commentary had a lot of nice information that put little bits in a light. Kieth David's growl not needing reverb... there are odd lengths I would go through if I could count on getting a voice like that.
But, above all, let me thank you for making the changes to the series that you did from the original pitch.
I do think that the more rounded image of the Gargoyles would have been a nice look to them. It reminded me more of the savagery of a rabbid gorrila than the Gargoyles I know which are animalistic in the proud vissage of an eagle. (sort of, I mean, Lexington is a little too cute to be eagle-esque, but there you go).
But, mostly, I like the fact that the Trio aren't just a mischevious group of kids. They're warriors from a time when you had to grow up fast. Yeah, they get in trouble and act pretty much like you'd expect brothers to act, but the seriousness in them makes the funny bits all the funnier.
Finally, best for last, thank you for making Bronx not into an ear-flapping comedy piece. Bronx is so much better as this dog-like beast than he is as something that chews on fire-hydrants.
And, to look to Awakenings, Bronx's reaction to the Trio giving him a name is far better comedy than eating various things. It's just such a perfect dog-like animal reaction, the kind that makes you think he knows exactly what's being said. If I could put words to his reaction, it would be "If you're going to name me, leave me out of it."
All in all, thank you for making the changes you did.
You're welcome. They were all pretty organic, developing over time as more people (like Frank Paur and Michael Reaves) joined the project.
Still the pitch you saw is what SOLD the show, so I'm not sorry it had all the comedy it did.
Do all Gargoyles, have the same level of Superstrength? or are some, like Goliath Stronger?
Like human beings, some gargoyles are stronger than others. I'd think GENERALLY, that it's pretty clear visually.
I loved this show when I was but a young lad but, as many people do, I grew up and forgot about it. Then one day two years ago, quite by accident, I found this website. It rekindled my love for the show and brought me back to a place I hadn't been in years. I started to watch the reruns on Toon Disney almost religiously and become obsessed all over again. I started checking this site daily, hoping to hear some news that Gargoyles was coming back in some way, either in a new form or a release of the classic in DVD format. Finally the news came and I was ecstatic.
Got the Season One DVD for Christmas and I must say FANFREAKIN'TASTIC!
Starting with the menus, I loved them. Slow? Yes, but I didn't mind, they looked good. Then I selected to watch Awakening with the commentary. Loved it. Most of it we have read here on Ask Greg, but there were some other things that I hadn't and was interested to find out.
And I have to agree with Mr. David, one of my favorite lines from anything ever is "Know her? I named her!"
All the other episodes looked great! Haven't looked better. Even Enter Macbeth, which in my opinion was lacking the most visually, looked great.
The sound quality was great too! Hearing that music clear and crisp and all the great voices, I was in heaven.
There's only one thing I would have liked to see and that's more commentary. I'm sure all of you are busy and probably don't have a whole lot of time to just sit around and talk about episodes, and yes we have your Rambles here on Ask Greg, but it would have been nice. Other than that, loved it!
And though the other extras were few, they were great. I loved seeing the original pitch, seeing how the ideas started out and then comparing them to how they turned out.
In conclusion to this rambling collection of praise and my personal story with your amazing show I would like to say thank you and I hope the DVD does good enough for a Season Two release and hopefully the rebirth of Gargoyles.
The lack of commentary on additional episodes had nothing to do with us being too busy. This was a budgetary decision on BVHE's part.
Ah what the hey, I'll review the DVD. Being the guy who said peoples life wouldn't be complete without it on Amazon, I still kinda hold that in mind. It was a well done DVD with good extras, and finally seeing Deadly Force was a treat. I hope this opens up to a day where I'll be able to watch Future Tense (The best episode in the series in my opinion) whenever I want.
Not yet. So SPREAD THE WORD!
I just finished watching the first season DVD. Since Ask Greg seems to be open for questions again (probably proving how infrequently I stop in), I figured it would be as good a place as any to leave my comments.
The first thing I checked out was the commentary. It's always interesting to hear the staff talk about their work, and you get some gems of information you would never hear otherwise. However, I'm a bit disappointed that Keith didn't talk a little bit more frequently in the three episodes of commentary that he participated in. Not that disappointed though, since he did have a few good bits here and there.
That bit about the gun change surprised me; even though my old VHS tape from TV had all the next ep previews/credits/openings cut to run the whole thing in sequence, I had never noticed. Nearly fell out of my couch for that one.
One bit about "The Thrill of the Hunt": one scene that I definitely didn't remember from previous viewings was a gargoyle statue's head being smashed as the Pack scaled the building to chase Goliath and Lexington. Nice to see some cut bits of episodes put back in their rightful places - this little bit makes that scene make that much more sense.
By the time I got to "Deadly Force" (and wow, I just typo'd that as "Deafly Force" there for a minute), I was impressed at how far the envelope was pushed in this series, considering the target audience and timeslot it had. In this episode alone, we not only have the dead body chalk outline on the street, but Elisa actually flatlining for a bit. Wow.
We also have Goliath referring to the first meal of the night as "dinner" here, while two episodes later in "The Edge", Broadway refers to it as "breakfast". I wonder if that means their food choices for said first meal are similarly different...
I think that's all I really wanted to say about the content of the show - since if I went into complete praise and gushing, I'd probably have a novel on my hands. I'd probably also end up derailing myself even further with all my random comments I keep inserting. But rewatching these episodes reminded me of how impressive and epic the series is, and even with a decade of age, that feeling hasn't changed.
Whoa, hey, the blurb about the DVD to my left that I've been staring as while writing this mispells Keith David's first name.
Woo, derailed again.
On the technical side of things now...
DVD menus were fairly OK. Transition times are a bit too long for my taste, but for the most part didn't bother me that much. The imagery is interesting - I was a little bit put off with the main menu animation at first, but I warmed up to it after letting it loop a couple of times. I like the use of the theme song in its original incarnation to depict a duality between the calm of the gargoyles' stone sleep and their nighttime awakening.
I also like how both the Sun and the Moon rise and set in the same direction.
One big thing that surprised me was the lack of chapter stops within each episode. A long history of collecting anime DVDs has taught me that episodes should always be chaptered for quick and easy seeking - in this case, I expected chaptering for Opening, Previously+Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, End Credits. With every episode stored onto its own chapter, I ended up having to memorize the times of points I wanted to return to should I want to jump around, which I think is a tremendous inconvenience for something so easily implemented.
Video quality was impressive, as far as I could tell from the old TV I was watching on. The show pretty much looked just the way it did when I first watched it on TV, without nasty artifacts from our poor terrestrial reception. I was particularly impressed that all the scenes I spot-checked didn't show any combed frames as I stepped through. I bet this would look marvelous on the HDTV.
Keith's growl bit at the Gathering amuses me. I wonder how many times he can do that consecutively. I'd probably have no voice left after one attempt.
I'm left wondering why, after there was a decently-sized Gathering featurette, that there was no link to the Gathering website or any information on the Gathering at Las Vegas in 2005. I thought it would have been the perfect place to put it, unless there are some legal reasons that prevent such a thing. (I was also kind of expecting a disclaimer stating that the Gathering was not affiliated in any way with Walt Disney Co., etc., etc...)
And I think I'll end my disjointed mad ramblings here before inflicting mental harm on any who would happen to read it. Again, I'm glad I finally have the DVD in my hands, and aside from a couple of minor technical gripes, it's fantastic and I have all hopes for getting some more in my hands too.
I would have liked a website for the Gathering too... and I asked for it, but was turned down. I wasn't told why.
I do not have a question, but a swell comment. Thank you Disney for my favorite cartoon on DVD! Out of all the Disney cartoons that I have seen, Gargoyles tops the cake. Please hurry out with Gargoyles Season 2 on DVD. You will make all of us fans of this show quite happy!
Thanks for the kind words.
I've read through some of the archives, and i understand that the release of Season 2 on DVD is dependant on the sales from the first season... do you know roughly how many need to be sold for Season 2 to be released?
not that i'd be able to go out and buy that many (college student) but i would like to know how many people i should get hooked on the series in order for me to get my next fix :P
heheh, oh, and happy holidays!
Disney refuses to give me hard numbers. But if every fan TOLD 1000 people about the series (the DVDs, the comics, the Gatherings), I think we'd be in good shape.
I picked up the Gargoyles box set 2 weeks ago, and must say I really enjoyed it. The time the DVD makers put in on the menus really impressed me. I haven't watched the show in a long time, and about forgot how great it was. I am really looking forward to the second season comming out on DVD.
Great work, on a great show.
I finally bought a DVD player yesterday, and watched much of the Gargoyles DVD on it; to be precise, all five parts of "Awakening" with the commentary on, "Deadly Force", the original pitch, and the Gathering documentary. I very much enjoyed the experience as well (once I got used to how to work the DVD player, of course).
I very much liked the commentary, though I'd only recommend it to people who've already become familiar with the series since it contains a number of spoilers (such as Owen really being Puck, the prediction of Xanatos creating the Mutates and Thailog, the prediction of Xanatos making peace with the gargoyles at the end of Season Two, etc.). I did have a little trouble sometimes working out whether it was you or Frank Paur speaking (though I didn't have that trouble with Keith David; his voice is definitely unmistakable).
While much of it was information that I'd already learned from "Ask Greg" and my visit to the 2001 Gathering, there were some new things there that stood out to me, as well as a few old things that I thought I'd briefly comment on:
1. You mentioned about how much of the set-up of Part One of "Awakening" (with the opening scene of the stones falling from the top of the Eyrie Building and the preview of Part Two with Xanatos, the Eyrie Building, the commandos, etc.) was to reassure the audience that "Gargoyles" would be mostly set in the present-day rather than in the 10th century, for fear that they would be turned off the series if they thought that it would be set in the Middle Ages. Interestingly enough, for me when I started watching "Gargoyles", it was the reverse; my favorite part of "Awakening" was the 10th century introduction, and one of my biggest thoughts during it was "Pity that this is just the origin story and that the bulk of the series is going to be in the modern world". (How I'd have enjoyed the "Dark Ages" spin-off!)
2. You mentioned about Goliath being in the wrong to send the trio and Bronx down to the rookery (though with the irony that he thereby saved their lives). When I saw the episode, I always thought that Goliath had done the right thing in punishing Lexington, Brooklyn, and Bronx, however, since regardless of the fact that the humans had started the fight, the three of them were still helping to escalate the hostilities (and all that growling with eyes glowing obviously would only reinforce the humans' fear of gargoyles). Where I did think that Goliath was in the wrong was in sending Broadway with them, since he hadn't been in the fight at all, but was merely peacefully eating at the time.
3. One little bit that still amuses me (part of "Awakening" itself, I might add, though not part of the commentary) is that, directly after Xanatos's line "Pay a man enough, and he'll walk barefoot into Hell", we see one of the workmen dismantling the castle for transportation, with the close-up on his feet (although they're in shoes).
4. I honestly hadn't realized (until you pointed it out here) that Goliath's request of the Magus was suicidal, maybe because I was then aware of the fact that the series was just starting and that the gargoyles were going to be somehow awakened in modern times. But when I looked at it from his perspective rather than that of a viewer who was aware that it was a television series, I realized that it was indeed the case, that Goliath couldn't have known that someday, the castle could rise above the clouds. Which meant that he wasn't asking to be placed under the spell so that he could be there when Hudson, the trio, and Bronx were awakened (as I'd subconsciously assumed) because he didn't think that that would ever happen, but just to gain release from the misery of loneliness.
5. Your remarks about Xanatos being designed to appear deceptively heroic definitely brought back memories for me. When I first saw "Awakening", I didn't know for certain whether Xanatos would be a friend or an opponent to the gargoyles until Part Five, but I wanted to believe that he was on their side, that he was on the level, even though a part of me had suspicions that he would turn out to be the antagonist. And it wasn't until Elisa revealed to Goliath in Part Five about what had really gone on in the Cyberbiotics raids that I had to accept that Xanatos was up to no good.
6. The significance of the Alice in Wonderland sculptures during the scene where Elisa was being chased by the commandos was definitely new to me; I had only thought of them as part of the background, and hadn't realized that they were also symbolic of the new world that she'd just discovered.
7. And thanks for confirming my suspicion that Demona's "a thousand years of solitude" remark was a hommage to Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
8. About Demona revealing her name: that scene always worked for me as dramatic and threatening. What stands out to me about it now, though, was how the expectations or assumptions that I'd had from that line turned out to not match what actually happened in the series. I had believed then that her name arose out of terrified humans whom she was preying upon viewing her as a nightmare straight out of Hell, and then, in "City of Stone", it turns out that she was given that name by a then-ally, and as a means of praising her fighting skills. Talk about skewering the audience's expectations!
I enjoyed seeing the original presentation again. One thing that stands out to me about it now is that, even though the series had by this time clearly switched to a more dramatic genre, there was still a much more strongly comical tone about it than the final version, as in:
1. The depiction of Goliath reading in the 10th century, while seated on a few annoyed-looking smaller gargoyles to keep them out of mischief.
2. The picture of Goliath and Elisa on a subway train, with Goliath wearing a lot of heavy garments to hide the fact that he's a gargoyle, but still getting a lot of attention from the other passengers (which I honestly can't imagine happening in the series itself, though we did get to see Broadway in the trenchcoat and fedora a couple of times).
3. Bronx (looking astonishingly anthropomorphic there) chewing on a fire hydrant.
All in all, I really enjoyed the DVD, and am looking forward to the Season Two ones.
I mentioned back in MARK OF THE PANTHER that I feard that episode would be focused on the illegal poaching angle, and become less of a story, more of a "public service announcement" of sorts. I said back then that, in my experience, when a show is focused on (or does an episode focused on) certain issues (especially environmental ones for some reason) it seems to sacrifice plot, character, and even believability to force its moral across.
Thankfully, that does not happen in this episode, or in any episode of GARGOYLES that I can think of.
Granted there are *some* lines that come close to being preachy. I find myself laughing at the "Forget me, save the trees!" line. And Zaphiro's "There is no such thing as a few trees," while admittidly cool and well-delivered, initially struck me as so absolutist and dogmatic.
Now, in that last case, I would have felt better if the conversation between Zaphiro and Elisa continued after that (maybe with Zaphiro pointing out that rainforest soil is absolutely worthless for farming). This is another one of those times I really wish GARGOYLES had hour-long episodes.
Actually, I really do like that scene between Elisa and Zaphiro because Elisa plays devil's advocate--she actually tries to see things from the side of the "forest defilers." Going back to what I said about other "environmentally-minded" shows and episodes, things have a tendency to be drawn completely in black and white--anyone who chops down a tree is evil to the core, basically. Broad strokes and caricatures.
Let's look at "Captain Planet and the Planeteers," for example. From what I remember, they had a cadre of "Eco-villains" who largely seemed to be destroying the environment because they enjoyed doing so. And it was specifically the environment that they enjoyed destroying. In some cases, they had a motivation (oftimes greed, though one character needed radiation to survive), but mostly they seemed to do it because they enjoyed polluting. If a normal person was doing "bad things" it was because they were under the influence of one of the big bad-guys, and by the end said normal people saw the error of their ways and turned around. Thus, it doesn't seem terribly realistic to me.
Contrast this with MONONOKE HIME ("Princess Mononoke"), one of my favorite animated movies. The "forest defiler," Lady Eboshi, while she can be quite ruthless and capitalistic, has a heart. She frees women from prostitution and takes care of lepers. She has depth, and this makes her more realistic and identifiable. Thus I was able to take this movie seriously, and more fully appreciate humanity's impact on the natural world.
And thankfully, THE GREEN is much closer to MONONOKE HIME than "Captain Planet." Much of this comes from Elisa. In addition to the scene I already mentioned, I LOVE the scene between her and Goliath at the pyramid when he leaves to protect The Green. She argues from the human point of view, in essence still playing devil's advocate, but she can fully sympathize with the gargoyles. And while Goliath can understand Elisa's point of view, he can see little other choice for the gargoyles trying to save The Green than the guerilla attacks. Even the Mayan clan seems to understand (Turquesa is a bit snappish about the "misguided laws," but Jade seems downright cheerful towards Elisa).
And as for the "villains" themselves, Jackal and Hyena are the only real ones, and their primary interest is the money. They don't show any specific enjoyment out of destroying the rainforest (even Jackal's destruction of trees stems from his trying to keep the gargoyles from doing anymore damage and--heck--he just likes destroying stuff, period). Vogel, and through him Cyberbiotics, are the "big bad" employing Jackal and Hyena, but again it's about the money and not a gleeful hatred for the environment (Environmental Ethics for Businesses: "Care about the environment unless it costs you money."). Even the workers are just doing their jobs (and they're probably as unnerved by Jackal and Hyena as they are the gargoyles). The destruction of the rainforest is, as is often the case in real life, the direct side effect of pursuing other goals (as opposed to the ultimate goal of some malefactor).
Okay, NOW we can get down to smaller details.
I LOVED seeing the new gargoyles. Zaphiro's design was excellent! And Hector Elizondo's voice-work was wonderful. The whole cast did a great job, in fact (and was the Jesse Corti playing Jade the same fellow who played Le Fou in BEAUTY AND THE BEAST?).
The "flesh by day and night" thing was nice--we don't often get to see the gargs in sun-lit environments.
And it was great seeing Jackal and Hyena again, and they actually managaed to be more unnerving than ever. There are the scenes you and Erin mentioned (a headless Hyena is pretty intimidating), but the whole "retract eye/ear" thing creeps me out, too. Those long cords are rewinding into their SKULLS!! And the sound Hyena's earpiece makes when it goes back in her ear...[shudder].
Admittidly, Jackal did have a nice plan, and if it weren't for the amulet being in New York it might have worked. I find it strange that Hyena seems to think being in NY again is a good "omen." Then again, she likes fighting the gargs, so....
I was pleased to no end to see Broadway and Lexington show up again. And their fight with Hyena was well staged (though the destruction of the various exhibits sets my teeth on edge, as well). You brought up Broadway's clan mentality towards maternity (the plural "mothers"), but what I find interesting is Hyena's use of the singular ("mamma"), which almost seems to indicate that she already in her mind sees these guys as brothers.
RE: the head injury. Yeah, that's another one of those things Toon Disney cuts out. Hyena's holding her head in pain was actually a nice touch, though.
I like the look on Jackal's face when Vogel points out the little "contractual oddity." I almost wonder if Vogel enjoyed needling Jackal on some level.
Actually, I must say I was surprised to see Vogel here. I mean, if any corporation was supposed to be "behind it all" shouldn't it be Xanatos Enterprises--the "bad guy's" company? Instead, it's the company headed by a good man, but run (while said good man is ill) by a rather unemotional businessman. It actually helped with the message and increased the depth of both Vogel and Renard. You get the sense that while Vogel may not like Jackal and Hyena (or their actions) he puts it aside in favor of results.
Still, his deciding to pull Cyberbiotics out of the rainforest entirely seemed a bit too pat. Despite that, though, it's pretty well handled.
I would have loved getting a chance to listen to Broadway and Lex's rationale for ultimately not destroying the amulet. I kind of figured they wouldn't, and having seen Obsidiana lose her pendant and Bronx find it I kind of figured out what the ruse would be.
Dang, but Morgan's casual with Hyena the killer cyborg. Unconcious or not, I'd wait until I was packing a nuclear weapon before I got near her.
Jackal doesn't kill Elisa. He tasers her unconcious, but doesn't kill her right off. Why? I just find myself wondering if he didn't have even WORSE things planned for her.
Elisa comes up with a sort of back-up solution that I had been wondering about for quite some time before this episode aired. It always struck me as being advisable to collect "genetic samples" of endangered plant and animal life "just in case." So I rather liked Elisa's contribution here.
A couple final thoughts: I liked that the gargs never referred to the rainforest as such. It was always "the forest" or, even better, "The Green." I love their using a title for this land they hold in reverence.
Also, the "Oxygen" line you mentioned. It is a valid point (one that I keep forgetting, I'll admit), but, yeah, it may have been a bit difficult to pull off without feeling preachy or forced (I could only see Elisa saying this line since the Mayan clan strike me as mostly knowing their own turf--they know the forest is important, but they may not know how globally necessary it is).
It's a good episode, and a well done "special message" ep. And hey, more gargoyles (and cool looking ones at that)!
It's always a fine line, but we do try to avoid being preachy.
And yes, Jesse Corti is Jade and Le Fou.
In materials I've read since, I'm no longer certain that the rain forests are the lungs of the world. That's been called into question... to some extent by the DESTRUCTION of the rain forest. If so much is gone, why haven't oxygen levels dipped -- or something like that.
This is regarding the Gargoyles first season DVD set--
Hurrah! I love this series and hope very much that the remaining seasons will be put on DVD as well. This is my favorite Christmas present for 2004!
And Merry Christmas to you too!
I got Gargoyles for Christmas!!! I was/am so happy, especially since I've been reading everyone else rave about the DVD during the past 2-3 weeks. I started screaming with joy when I opened the box and found Gargoyles inside. I think I was even more excited than my little sisters were about any of their presents. (They're usually the ones shrieking for joy). All of I got to say is that it looks awesome. I watched all five parts of Awakening yesterday morning and Trill of the Hunt this morning and it looked and sounded awesome. The funniest part is that my eight year old sister kept going "that wasn't in the movie" when we were watching Awakening, since we have the Gargoyles: The Heroes Awaken movie and she's seen it a million times.
Anyway, I just had to share my joy! Now, we just need season 2! <My sisters keep asking me if we have "the episode where that guy picks Elisa up on the motorbike" <for example, she's referring to the end of Hunter's Moon Part 2> and keep having to tell them that no that episode is from season 2.> Now they're convinced that all the good episodes are from the second season. <sigh> It's funny though too...
After a few hours of perusing through the archives and "unanswered questions," I think these are questions that haven't been answered yet. If these questions were answered, I apologize. This list of questions will have to do with Elisa Maza.
Knowing that Elisa Maza is half Native American/African American, does she struggle with the duality of being of mixed cultures? If asked the question "what racial aspect she feels more related to?" what would her response be (if any)? As a child, how would being of two different descents affect Elisa?
I've also noticed within the series that she is close to her parents, but gravites towards her father (i.e. "Her Brother's Keeper"). Did something happen in the past to make her gravitate that way or is it "Daddy's little girl" type of thing?
I know the name of the show is "Gargoyles," but I have always been intrigued at the fact that Elisa Maza didn't have strong outside relationships with anyone outside the police force and the gargoyles. Is it because she's too busy on the force? Is it because she's a loner at heart? Was there a plan to have her outside friends/relationships shown within the series?
You've stated before that Elisa has been in romantic relationships. What is her preference towards men? I know that she finds traits exemplified in Goliath as attractive, but this is more of a superficial question and I'm looking for answers that deal with a racial, religious and financial aspects. Yes, I'm horrible.
You've stated earlier that she's bee in romantic relationships, but not to the point of marriage because no one has ever been that close to her -- why is that? There are probably too many influences to state, but I just want to know about the most prominent influences.
There are probably more questions brewing in my head, but I see that you're bogged down already; therefore, all I can do is wish for my questions to be replied someday.
In the future, numbering your questions would be helpful. I'll divide your questions by paragraph.
2a. I'm sure she struggles a bit.
2b. I think Elisa probably relates to being African-American a bit more than Native American as her mother studies her heritage and her father had (for most of Elisa's life) rejected his. But I don't think she'd respond well to the question, frankly.
2c. I'm not going to use this forum to right a dissertation long answer. I'm sure there was some societal ostracism here and there. Elisa's different. Her ethnic background isn't always immediately obvious from looking at her. This causes some confusion for OTHER people. And that confusion can indeed effect a child. But Elisa was raised in a good home, surrounded by love and a fairly concrete ideal of right and wrong transcending the petty. I think she did fairly well.
3a. Probably a bit of Daddy's little girl. Probably also a natural bent. Elisa is bright, but she's a doer like her father. She didn't follow her mother into acadaemia; she followed her father onto the force. Beth, though choosing to study her Native American heritage, is much more like her mom. Derek is somewhat trapped. He probably would have been better off just following his own path -- to the sky, most likely. Flying was his great passion. But he felt (mostly internal) pressure to follow dad and big sis onto the force. That led to a backlash, which brought him under Xanatos' sway. Now he lives underground.
4a. I'm not sure I agree with your premise here. Elisa had a VERY strong relationship with her family. Plus I think she has friends. The fact that most of those friends are cops, is hardly surprising, since most of us pull our friend pool from our environment. I don't think that Elisa dates much. She would, I think, be very hesitant to date cops or lawyers that she works with. (It's dicey even today for a woman to date co-workers and still be taken seriously.) And she's sure not gonna date perps. And given her schedule, that limits her opportunity to meet people. We happenned to meet her between relationships, but I never thought she NEVER dated. The force does define her a bit. But not entirely.
4b. She's self-sufficient. Which is different. But she has a lot of love to give. And a cat.
4c. Eventually, all things.
5. Racially/ethnically, I don't think she's picky. Her parents' successful marriage; her attraction to Jason, her attraction to Goliath, certainly, indicates she's pretty open. Religiously? I don't know how much that would matter to her either, assuming values were shared. Financially. Well, she wouldn't want to date a bum, i.e. someone who wasn't first self-sufficient as she is. I think she has some traditional values and dreams... again modeled from her own family. But I think those values and dreams are pretty middle/working class, generally.
6. Main one: didn't meet the right guy. Otherwise, see above. She had a goal, a plan. To be a detective for the NYPD. She didn't want anything to stand in the way of that. Then she got there, and meeting eligible guys isn't that easy. Doesn't mean she wasn't looking or even hopeful.
7. Hope you're still around to read these answers.
I was wondering if there was a place where I could find a bunch of quote that Goliath says later in the series during, The Goliath Chronicles. I love reading good quotes, and I remember this show having good ones. Thanks.
You have a better memory than I, then. No, I'm afraid I don't have any info on Goliath Chronicles.
I feel odd for asking this, but I simply became (or at least my interest) piqued and felt that it must be asked.
Coldstone Creamery. What did you think when you heard the name (or at least when they started taking over the world)?
Nothing all that brilliant. Something along the lines of "Hey, we had a character named Coldstone!"
Rambling on Demona
I just finish watching awakening part one to five, from the DVD, witch I love by the way, and it reminded me of the first time I saw Demona. She is my all-time favourite TV Character. I actually feel sorry for her. The talk between her and Goliath at the end when she revels for the first time that she made a plan with the Captain of the guards moved me. I love the way she is written. She sounds alone and I feel and hear her pain.
See I'm a 22 year old gay guy, so when I first saw this I was 12. I didn't really know that I was gay but I knew their was something different about me. Seeing that scene helped me in a weird way. Hearing Demona's pain and loneliness about what the humans "did" to her kind sort of mad me feel like I wasn't alone. Demona's way of blaming others for her mistakes is something that most people do in one way or an other. I can truly say that I felt like she did allot of the time( I didn't want to kill all straight guys) but I felt like they didn't except me and that I couldn't trust anyone. Demona's actions were also mostly responsible for her pain, as the sisters pointed out in COS part 4, just like my fear of being different mad me feel alone.
Later in life I realized that people fear what they don't understand. The whole show is about creatures being different and misunderstood by "normal" people. It help me better understand the other's way of looking at things, that to them I was like a monster( not really a monster but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.) As the show when on, it helped me realize that different wasn't always a bad thing. The Goliath and Elisa relationship gave me hope that maybe someone could love me for who I was and except my differences.
I understand Demona's pain, Marina Sirtis is so amazing in this role. Demona is written so fantastic and realistically that its like she was a voice for me( in a good way, again not the killing part) like she mirrored what I felt. Now I'm fully comfortable with my self and in a way I have Gargoyles to thanks for that. I herd in the commentaries that ( I'm typing from memory, so please forgive me if I'm misquoting you) you indented the show, among other thing, to have or be a voice for the little people. I just wanted to say that at least for me it help me a lot when I was younger. I felt like the were other people in the world that were different. Thank you for that.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I been wanting to thank you for a long time. I truly hope that Disney bring this show back, because people like me need more shows like this, with real characters that are normal.
Your post here is very gratifying. I am quite proud of our series and of how evocative and strong and complex a character Demona is in particular, but hearing that it helped you and taught you something truly makes my day. Thanks for sharing this ramble with me.
Does Elisa ever get married??? She is one of my favorite characters. Angela is my most favorite.
My advice is to start picking up the comic book... In time, all will be revealed there...
Will there ever be a movie on Gargoyles?
I don't know. Will there?
A question about Xanatos's attempts to capture the clan in "The Edge" and "Re-awakening".
Xanatos's original goal for the gargoyles was to serve as his henchmen, the purpose for which he awakened them in "Awakening". However, after they discovered his true purpose for them, that prospect was clearly no longer an option. Xanatos seems to have, for the most part, recognized that, since a lot of his schemes after "Awakening" turned towards making his own gargoyles (the Steel Clan, the Mutates, Thailog) who would be more willing to serve him. But in "The Edge" and "Re-Awakening", he still attempts to capture Goliath and his clan, even though he was clearly aware that the ship had sailed on their continuing to work for him.
In "The Edge", of course, Xanatos had other goals besides just capturing the gargoyles or discovering their hiding place (giving the Eye of Odin to the MOMA and then stealing it back so that he could enjoy the benefits of donating the Eye and still have it in his possession, testing his gargoyle armor, testing himself against Goliath to make certain that he wasn't losing his edge), and in the case of "Re-Awakening", Xanatos clearly had uses for Coldstone other than fighting the gargoyles (as the raid on the Golden Bakery Building in "Legion" made clear). But the fact that he was still making a major objective of capturing the gargoyles in both of those stories indicates that he still wanted the clan.
Since (as I mentioned above) Xanatos knew by this time that the gargoyles were on to him and that he couldn't hope to dupe them again into, say, stealing technology from rival corporations, what was he hoping to achieve by taking the clan prisoner? Did he have other plans for having the gargoyles work for him than duping them? Or (as "The Price" suggests) did he have plans for making the gargoyles useful to him that didn't require their being his henchmen?
Contingencies under contingencies. Plans upon plans. That's our boy David. I wouldn't rule out the notion that he still hoped to turn them back to his side. I certainly buy into the idea, that in any case he wanted them under his control, under his eye, beholden, on his property, etc.
Kinda like the way things turned out at the end of Hunter's Moon, you know?
Some thoughts on our favorite characters and love.
So far in the "Gargoyles" Universe, the characters that all in real true love all have a deep understanding for one another. David and Fox understand each other better than anyone else on the planet does, and David acknowledges her as his equal. Maybe both of them didn't understand themselves well enough to think they were not that capable of such emotions, but they knew each other.
Goliath and Elisa are similar, it was clear even early on that they had something there, they grew to trust each other with their lives. There was always respect, and they understand one another, even when they disagree.
Likewise with Broadway and Angela, he saw her for who she was, unlike Brooklyn. All these characters seem to in a way share the same soul.
Now in regards to Demona, she's failed in love twice because that deep, emotional, soul sharing understanding faded as in the case with Goliath, but even before then she went behind his back, tried to push him to seize leadership of the clan, which he would not do, and could never understand why he put up with the humans. Not that she didn't understand him, in some cases she knew him only too well, since she saw the sparks between Goliath and Elisa long before they realized they were there. As far as Thailog goes, she thought that he was the Goliath she always wanted, and turned out to be flat out wrong, since he just planned to use her (in more ways than one) and finally discard her when he was done.
You've said in the past that Demona will have two more great loves, what will be interesting to see is by standards set by other characters where there is a similar "sharing of the soul" as it were. This deep, emotional understanding and knowing of one another. Problem is, it would be very hard for anyone to truly know her without having experienced similar tragedies. Everyone has their tragedies, but how many people have been alive for centuries, being hunted, bearing strong grudges and longer hatreds. Demona is her own worst enemy, and is likely to sabotage such things, and that's on the big assumption that she even opens herself up to anyone again.
One or both of those next great loves had better truly be someone special, if she's going to come out of her shell and really learn to care for someone intimately again.
Well... having nothing to do with my plans, I'm not sure I agree with your final premise. Whether a character -- any character -- truly loves somebody can in fact be independent of that somebody's worth.
Love can be selfless. Love can be unrequited. Love can be lavished on someone unworthy.
I'm not talking about my plans for Demona here. Just cautioning you not to get ahead of yourself in making predictions based on facts not in evidence.
But I do agree that true and lasting love works best when it's between individuals who understand and respect each other first.
This is just an observation. I've watch Gargoyles on Toon Disney and have seen the story arc "City Of Stone" before and after the 9/11 attacks. The thing I've noticed is the word "terrorist" is silenced out of the dialogue between Goliath and the Weird Sisters. Don't know if this is also a trait in the DVD. I won't ask why, because the reason is obvious.
The DVDs are, to my knowledge, uncut.
Finally aquiring the Gargs dvd has gotten my mind spinning on the possibility of the story's return in any format, but specifically television, and what kind of audience and content it would aim for.
I am watching temptation right now, and the first part of it is fairly heavy material. Demona showing Brook domestic trouble, violence and her general talk of humanity's evil (which i have taken to heart, she's right you know) wouldn't get past S&P or any such triff nowadays. Censorhip seemed to get in the way back in 94 as well, there are examples i could site but that would take a long time. I'll just say mobsters aren't really known for using tear gas in high jacking, at least if the supranos is any indication. The only recent show i can think to compare to Gargs is X-men Evolution, and Justice League, one is cancled and the other I've never seen on Saturday morning but rather prime time weekends.
The point and question it raises are thus: Gargoyles was always more mature than any north american animation of it's time, and television content limitations for the age bracket Gargs was originally intended for have gotten more restrictive.
If it was your choice, what kind of maturity level in terms of target audience and content would you aim for?
My opinions:With disney no doubt s&p would be cutting out everything not soft and fuzzy if it was intended for the 6 to 12 set again (or whatever demographic it was, don't remember). The fan base, such as myself is 10 years older and hopefully has matured accordingly. I would think the show itself would work best as an action drama on the same level as say, Angel, 24 or even some anime like Inuyasha.
It's all speculative, but the dvd release gives one hope we'll see the Gargoyles animated again.
I wouldn't mind. But honestly, I'm much more focused on the comic book right now. The audience for that is ideally the same as the audience for the original show... i.e. EVERYONE -- but not dumbed down for anyone. That is, was and will continue to be my preference.