A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Hello again Mr. Weisman, I Just Got and read the first 6 issues of the 'Gargoyles' Comics, and here's 1 of the Curious Questions I do have related to them, though it's More like a 3 in 1 question if you don't mind
Between "Invitation Only" and "Bash" Why Does Xanatos Invite Margot Yale and her Husband to his castle? Since He surely does know that She's the Assistant District Attorney and the Adviser to the gargoyle taskforce and is Clearly Against the Gargoyles, doesn't he think it would be too risky because of the Rumors circulating that he's "harboring" the gargoyles? And Does Margot only accept the invitation to Find Proof of the rumors?
I don't know if it's just me, but she certainly seems like the kind of dirty D.A who'd take advantage of her position by any means to get what she wants
There's nothing in what we've shown of Margot to indicate that she's dirty or corrupt. So I'd be careful with words like that.
I think the stated reasons given in the conversation between Xanatos and Hacker for inviting anyone would apply double to Margot in her position.
As for her showing up to snoop, clearly she didn't. She showed up to socialize with all the right people, including Judge Roebling and others. Whether or not she suspects Xanatos of harboring Gargoyles, she clearly couldn't imagine that he'd just be letting them walk around his party dressed like characters from Wizard of Oz.
There's a pretty comprehensive review of Clan-Building here:
This guy really knows the series.
Catching up on my reviews/feedback to the comics... random thoughts as usual, and not very thorough.
Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the Trade Paperback, since I'm unemployed and low on money. Maybe someday. But I intend to continue buying the individual issues. I sincerely hope that the comic continues long after #12! And I really hope #8 comes around soon.
I forgot to mention, I like that #7 visually confirms that Delilah turns to stone like an ordinary gargoyle.
I read these a while ago, and watched the Radio Play online before reading #5. Lots of new revelations about the Illuminati in this set. Overall, I didn't find the Illuminati stuff in the series as interesting as this. They really are sinister and scary. Whatever they're doing, it won't be in the clan's best interest.
The different art styles in the three issues makes it strange to read them in sequence. Being the critic that I am, I notice many flaws, but I don't think that the art in #3 and #4 these issues was bad overall. I'm just not as good at describing the parts I like.
David Hedgecock's art isn't as good in this issue as in the latest issues drawn by him, which I already mentioned in my reactions to #7. It appears he was still getting used to all the various characters. Some good character asides are worked into the frames -- like Margot's obnoxious expression as she walks out of the meeting, and Brooklyn facing Malibu while Al talks to Shari. I don't understand the frame in which Talon is covered in warts, though. That wasn't in Metamorphosis, though it could have happened off-screen. I prefer Dustin Evans' shading style to Will Terell, but Morgan, Matt, and Thailog are colored oddly. I dislike the lines stabbing out of the gargoyles' eyes when they glow. As I've already said, Hedgecock's art looks best in #7, and with Robby Bevard's colors.
I quite like Nir Paniry's art on the Mutates, I think they looked very good. I also generally like his art for gargoyles' faces, I think he does good facial expressions in general (except the first page which looks more cartoony). I think he does a great job on Hudson. Talon's face when he says "I'm not leaving Maggie!" is especially well done, and very expressive. But the lines on Angela's face look like eyebrows. And I don't like seeing the gargoyles with such huge muscles. The split frame of Goliath's and Thailog's faces looks good. I also like the effect of the frame with just Goliath, Elisa, Morgan, and Delilah standing alone, as if the party is not all around them. It conveys the emotion of the situation (for Elisa and Goliath, at least) more effectively than words or faces could. I also enjoy the frame where Broadway and Lexington go after the food.
Karine Charlebois' art is amazing, it looks just like the animated show! The art in #5 is excellent, both the lines and the colors. Morgan still does look paler and Malibu's hair greener than I remember, but otherwise this issue is spot on the models in most frames. Brentwood is even drawn with the extra spikes he has on his shoulders. I am also pleased that the blood was drawn (not avoided) but also was not gratuitous or excessive -- especially considering that Thailog was not trying to kill anyone.
My main problem with these three issues is the inconsistency with the Mutates and the Clones, who are off-model in various ways in #3 and #4. In #3 the Mutates have tails. In both #3 and #4 the Clones have white teeth and red mouths, and Thailog and Brentwood look black instead of blue and purple. (Actually, I was kind of hoping at first that the Clones' mouths and teeth had simply changed to the normal color over time, as I find their black teeth and green tongues rather nasty.)
The inconsistency with Broadway's costume was less avoidable, though dramatic. Angela's footwear also seems to change from #4 to #5, but that is hardly noticable. Maybe they changed clothes?
In any case, such things also happened in the animated series, they were just harder to notice in moving images. They'll probably be rarer once every issue is by the same art team (you are going to pick a permanent color artist eventually, right? Please make it Robby Bevard!)
Ugh, Margot. She's just so hateable. I don't really know why, some other antagonists are more of a threat.
I think Hacker is lying to everyone he talks to here. The Illuminati manipulates and uses its lower members. Probably Hacker isn't totally in the loop either. They can't want to kill all gargoyles, because they already know where the Manhattan clan sleep. I think I know what they're up to with the Quarrymen, Taskforce, and Xanatos, but would guessing in print be an idea?
The conversation between Lex and Fox is funny, though less than last time. But I notice he takes her word for it.
I really like how Goliath and Elisa's relationship is handled. Too many fantasy stories have inter-species romances in which the characters don't act at all sensibly. They just jump into it as though cross-species mating is normal and they expect healthy children and total social acceptance. But Elisa has a realistic reaction. She may be a gargoyle-lover, but she isn't crazy. Goliath's behavior surprises me more, that he has no doubts at all. Is it because falling in love after losing the first mate is so rare that he doesn't question it? Because his life is already so different from how he grew up, that he just goes with it?
LIMITED is right.
And Demona takes the crystal. Nice to see that, to know what happened to it.
Hudson! I like Hudson, he's one of my favorite characters.
If people didn't want to believe real bad that gargoyles are just animals, if the idea of sentient gargs wasn't so impossible for a person, I doubt they'd fall for the "I'm wearing a mask" trik. No way a garg's face looks like a rubber mask.
"Excuse me? Cyborg." Somehow this line is very funny to me. But how does his costume just happen to be identical to the one in Future Tense? Did Puck see the costume in a prophecy? It can't be a coincidence. Of course it is only a costume, but from an in-the-universe point of view, the perfectly identical appearance is pretty creepy.
Go Claw! He has some guts in him.
Roebling is hilarious. Clearly he is wasted. And Delilah is so naive! Who would ever say such things in public, to total strangers... wow. English she has learned, but not basic social niceties.
I wonder why Alex is growing so fast. Is it his magic training? And I can't fail to notice that this Ambassador Chung has a son named Terry... he's pretty young yet, though.
I was very worried about Maggie when I read this. Now having #7 I'm not worried anymore of course.
Clearly Derek has a lot of feeling for her.
I love the way Owen handles Thailog. He knows that if his head is blown off, he will be dead like any mortal. But he's deadpan calm as always.
And that line about endlessly repairing the castle had me laughing so hard!
The bloody cover of #5 with the Disney logo on it is ironic/amusing/strange. I'm sure most people don't expect that from a Disney comic! But I was sure you weren't ready to kill Goliath yet, so I didn't worry.
I already watched the Radio Play but of course it is much better with visuals. Because I watched the Radio Play, I get to hear Brentwood's hilarious lines in my head. I gasped along with the audience at the end.
There are Mary and Finella. It has to be them. And using their old clothes as costumes.
Morgan sure takes that news very well. That's kind of him.
I was very surprised that Duval is only #2, and I'm eager to learn who #1 is. We will find out eventually, right?
I laughed so hard at the Super-Garg pose! Brooklyn looks hilarious there.
Never expected Angela to start dropping profanity.
The way the clan treat the clones is kind of sad. I understand that for the Manhattan clan, the clones are unsettling and perhaps frightening, and it is difficult to think of them as being their own separate selves, partly because until now they have mostly seemed fairly passive, serving Thailog or going to the Labyrinth because they were told to. Yet I can also see that the Manhattan clan are being very inconsiderate and dismissive, and I imagine it makes the clones feel pretty bad.
I wonder about what led them to choose the Labyrinth over Thailog. Angela phrases it in terms of good and evil, but I have the feeling the clones did not reject Thailog for that reason. They aren't really old enough to have a good grasp of "good" and "evil" yet, though of course that isn't to say they can't or won't learn about such things in time. I think it was more a matter of freedom and slavery to them, than a concrete conviction that Thailog has done immoral things. Probably also it was a matter of their personal liking for the Mutates, and for each other, versus Thailog. Whereas Brentwood likes Thailog as a person more than he likes the Mutates or his siblings, but I don't get the feeling that he has a clear sense that Thailog has been "evil," either. I could be wrong, but it seems they are too young to expect that of them yet. Nevertheless, Delilah knows when she herself has been wronged, whether or not she phrases it that way. I was certainly surprised by her and Breentwood's choices here.
The scene with Jeffery Robbins is very nice. But does Hudson really smell like concrete? The stuff is made of limestone I think. And how does Robbins know that gargoyles are strictly nocturnal? Seems like the Quarrymen are telling people about stone sleep...
But I'm glad to see Robbins and Dr. Sato become friends to the gargoyles here, even knowing what they are. It even looks like Brendan was the one who got the doctor.
Quincy and Xanatos interacting is amusing. Xanatos making wisecracks at the #2... he's rather full of himself. But amusing.
In the end Elisa and Goliath kiss. And he says something very wise about free will. Brooklyn becomes funny. And Sevarius gets in a rather grotesque line.
Glad you liked the run. I was pretty proud of it. Hope 7-9 works as well for you.
You've mentioned that many of the Goliath Chronicles stories were based on stories that you'd planned to do for Season Three, but which the new production team drastically altered (so that "Runaways" was based on Brooklyn's Timedancer story, and "Ransom" on the multiple tricksters and Alex story). Was "Genesis Undone" (the story about Thailog and the Clones dying) similarly based on the Double Date story that we got to see at last in #3 - #5? Both involved Thailog, the Clones, and Sevarius - and both had Sevarius obtaining the DNA of Goliath's clan for his experiments.
I honestly don't remember. Sorry.
In issue #3 of the "Gargoyles" comic book series, we first saw Illuminati members greeting each other with the words "Thirty-six." "Thirty-two." This got a lot of attention from the readers, of course, and led to many speculations over what the significance of those two numbers were. Then, in #5, we learned their significance: they were the ranks of the Illuminati members in question.
Have you ever regretted revealing the answer to that new mystery of the Gargoyles Universe so quickly, just two issues later? Or do you feel happy about the pacing with which you resolved that issue?
I'm pretty happy with it.
Originally I promised I wasn't going to review 3 - 5 until I saw them as a group, and go figure when I finished this was RIGHT when the queue closed. So here it is, though with added time of reflection.
REVIEW OF GARGOYLES ISSUES 3 - 5
by Shannon Muir
As I've stated previously, I didn't want to comment on the comics until I could see the whole story in one piece, which to me feels like I'm reading a half hour episode adapted to three comics with one comic per act. I'm largely going to talk about the story as I think it unfair to review three different artists artwork indepth in one piece. However, broadly speaking I liked issue #5 the best artwise and issue #4 the least (mainly because I couldn't follow the fight scenes in that style which in turn impacted my ability to follow story, though the style itself was interesting).
Now, here's a breakdown of each story arc and my observations --
THE ILLUMINATI: It's nice to finally get a sense of the Illuminati structure as more than just this nebulous organization represented by just a couple people in the show. Castaway, Bluestone, Xanatos, and Thailog all at lowest run almost implies some sort of "race to the top". Both Quincy and Shari I find extremely interesting, and Thailog being a member was a turn I didn't expect. Also that Shari's symbol isn't the ring like all the men wear. (What jewelry does Thailog have I wonder, though I know you can't/won't answer). There's enough here I'm interested in what is going on in their infrastructure. Thailog's goals are, however, at this point a little bit predictable. What is more of interest is the consequences of the pursuit of said goals with Sevarius.
ELISA AND GOLIATH: I have to be honest, this was the arc that I liked the least. To me, the question of Elisa's family plans opened on the castle rampart is a "tentpole" question that should launch a much larger arc and not be thrown away in the equivalent of a half-hour episode. The fact Elisa flirted with Jason, and did take Morgan on the date, cannot be erased in one night no matter how life-threatening. Couples have conflicts but they also need to work through them, and issues of this magnitude take time. I hear rumors later issues will continue with this theme, but even what I've seen here seems just too fast. I know comics by nature need to be time compressed to some extent, but still.
I for one hope that though Elisa's re-recognized her feelings for Goliath in the heat of a pressure moment, the struggles don't end here. Those are some powerful words Elisa told Goliath back at the castle in Issue 3 about the life she wanted, and I truly feel some more examination of this is required instead of a simple daytime soap opera-esque "we'll find a way to work it out" and let it rest until it resolves itself. It has always been one of GARGOYLES' hallmarks to deal with tough issues head on and give them the treatment they deserve - whether it is single epsiodes with undertones of social issues like DEADLY FORCE or LIGHTHOUSE or the complicated psychcological examination of Demona and Macbeth of CITY OF STONE. That, to me, is what makes GARGOYLES... well, GARGOYLES.
As is, it feels like this was "rushed through" to take Elisa and Goliath to some sort of "next level" in their relationship in order to move along other plot elements. I strongly hope this isn't the case.
BROOKLYN, BROADWAY AND ANGELA: Poor Brooklyn just feels alientated by everyone. This was done in plausible contexts that made sense. I know what it is ultimately to lead to (in the most general of senses, as we've been told before), but the question is how long will things go until we get there? I hope they don't drag out but go at a natural pace. As to Broadway and Angela, I think they are handled very subtly in the background, their relationship is reconfirmed as a contrast longside Brooklyn's alienation.
LEXINGTON: Not too much to say here as Lexington is Lexington. However, what is key is his confrontation with his clone, it reveals a lot about his character as he confronts his "dark side" when the clone chooses Thailog over siding with Delilah.
THE CLONES, THE MUTATES, AND THE POWER OF FREE WILL: Maggie standing up and Delilah taking charge were both turns I applauded and worked well, Delilah's especially though I would have liked to have overseen her hearing the conversation where Goliath mentions her. Though, where did Thailog learn about Norma Rae? It took a minute to remember where she overheard Goliath's comment. This was my second favorite arc to Hudson and Robbins (see below). However, we still don't know what happened to Maggie or to Claw. We see Shari at the end of Issue 5 talking to Thailog, and supposedly she took Claw with her when she left the Labrinyth in Issue 4. Where is he? Did I miss something? (I hope so.)
HUDSON AND ROBBINS: The smallest subplot in the arc but it accomplishes volumes in just a few pages. It got a major revelation out of the way - that Robbins has suspected Hudson's identity for some time - but it didn't feel rushed or forced. It felt like every step was completely appropriate and the handshake at the end before Hudson left was the perfect cap. A total contrast to the Elisa and Goliath arc. Even Gilly and Bronx resting together was a nice touch.
BRENDAN AND MARGOT: Margot was predictable but funny, yet the interesting part here is getting a better sense of Brendan. Timing makes it clear he got Dr. Sato to help Goliath, but did he realize Goliath was what he was or does he think Goliath was just a man in a really good costume? Again, you can't answer that one but I'm letting you know the answer interests me.
DEMONA: I know she's a setup for later, but she seems out of place in these three issues if taken together as one story. Not much to say as there's not much of her around. I am left wondering if that page might have been able to be done some other way or at some other point to have better been utilized for this story.
CAMEOS AT THE PARTY: Fun if you remember the show enough. I recognized some and had to research others. I flat out did not recognize the Judge and guessed who he was simply because I had to think of what episode used a Judge. Seems too off model to me, even compensating for the costume.
OVERALL: Would I keep reading at this point? There's enough to keep me interested, but how Elisa and Goliath play out may be a real sticking point. We'll see.
ADDENDUM REGARDING ISSUE #6:I don't have Issue 6 yet (got stuck too late at work to go out the day it came out), and to be honest after hearing about the technical art gaffe I may just hold out for the trade in hope it gets corrected there and I can follow the story properly, especially since it is a stand-alone. I haven't decided. If I do get it and the queue doesn't close, I'll consider a review.
Well, I don't agree with all your comments, but of course you're entitled to your opinions. A couple things I do take issue with:
I don't see Elisa as having flirted with Jason at all. She is trying to comfort him as a friend, and although I like to leave interpretations up to individual readers, I don't even see where that interpretation comes from. Frankly, I don't think she flirted with Morgan either.
I also don't have any idea why you think Shari took Claw with her.
Thanks to Patrick Toman, the Gathering 2007 Radio Play has been uploaded to YouTube. Because YouTube has a new rule that permits videos to be no more than 10 minutes long, Patrick had to split the 42 minutes of footage into five segments in order to also include titles and credits. Here are the links:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j63pDlPaKnQ
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRkv56AC-F4
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s58H_Tdi09E
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6PUx6GsdFA
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkurc-TW99o
Hi. Longtime reader, first time poster. I love the work you've done.
A belated review of Gargoyles #3
Pause to reflect: This is the first new Gargoyles story in a decade. Nothing could live up to that amount of anticipation, but this is still a very good issue. As it must it's mostly an establishment of things to come, but what a series of hints they are.
Bringing another Halloween story into the Gargoyles universe is a lovely concept. Perhaps it's not as hard to tell the difference between costumes and living creatures as cartoons like to make it out to be, but the characters need to have their fun, especially hunted as they are right now. And plus, it's great fun for fans who just love the holiday.
Of course, the holiday also sets up the "Double Date" storyline, which has been planned for years, and it's wonderful how this is handled. Elisa's crushing change of heart might seem too abrupt, but this capricious indecision which, while not pretty, is realistic. At least the series is dealing with it than assuming such relationships are a given, sucking all the interesting potential out of cross-species relationships as a lot of popular fantasy and sci-fi seems to do.
More Illuminati material; watching Hacker play to the interests of three different characters was intriguing, and hopefully something really strong and cohesive is done with this. Not to mention that the Xanatoses are going to the White House.
Demona's first SLG comic appearance was a one-page one without dialogue, but it was the beginning of something, and there's too much going on already to justify paying attention to her...yet. By Demona retrieving the crystal, it looks like the Praying Gargoyle, which, when the TV series is taken on its own, seemed just like a random plot device, might get its behind-the-scenes backstory developed. Demona, too, though a well-crafted character, still feels like her story isn't done yet, that she's not "complete" and hopefully the comic will continue to build on her.
Brooklyn is just having a bad day, isn't he? His perpetual grumpy scowl as he watches the other females being "taken" before his eyes (though Goliath is obviously uncomfortable with Delilah) is darkly funny. His development into a more enlightened person, romantically speaking, will be interesting to see, if "Timedancer" is ever published.
Nothing new or different is going to be said about Hedgecock's art: the colouring makes it look a little better this time, but just a little. Characters change proportion quickly, can be asymmetrical, and off-model in other ways (Malibu's tusks, the Mutates with tails). There are some fun bits like Brooklyn staring at Malibu in the background while Al and the Labyrinth Girl talk, and a few good expressions, but trouble still continues.
The colouring, though as mentioned above, has improved, but there are problems. Brentwood's skin is black, the same as Thailog's, when it should be lighter. The gargoyles all have darkened interiors on their ears, and Goliath's wings are still entirely dark purple, instead of having lighter arms and ribs. Brooklyn and Broadway have light brown loincloths instead of blue ones, and Demona now sports blue wing membranes. Angela has blue lips, but these actualy look better, an extension of her skin colour rather than the faux-lipstic on most female cartoon characters.
"Send in the clones". Augh. The timing for that scene is a little weird, too. An entrance prompted by a bad pun?
As always Greg Guler's cover art looks much nicer than the interior, but like #1 the cover art is a generic character group shot that doesn't say much about the issue's contents, something that will thankfully change with issue #4. Angela's outfit in the book isn't changed as drastically as the one on the cover; can't say that's displeasing, when one wonders the point of Guler wanting to go back and change a character's outfit to the original skimpier design several years after the fact.
Overall it's a very good story, even if it's just an aperitif. The thrill is in thiking about where things are going to go from here.
Invitation Only... that's all it promised to be...
A bit of a critique on #3 right now.
You know I love seeing Demona (she's my favorite character), and I loved her one page appearance in #3. But, with #4 out, that scene kind of feels stuck in. I'm guessing she'll appear again in #5, and I can understand that big picture wise, you may have felt you needed that there to set up something later, like an adaption of "The Last" perhaps. But, as of right now, this particular story doesn't feel like it needed that scene.
"Oh, reason not the need."
I read the new issue the day it came out, but it took me this long to read through the other posts about it... it was made somewhat harder to catch up since my home computer gave up the ghost (loveable hubby has been running an ~unupdated~ virus protection for 5 years), and my company blocks s8 for some unfathomable reason, (EBAY I get, IM I get, but s8? I can go to girl-wonder.org with no problem so it isn't a bulletin board thing, and it's not like I can say I have a 'work related' reason calling for access to the site).
Now that I've read and read I can say I am mucho happy. There had been some small concerns I had reading issues 1 and 2 that I assumed would go away with new material, and they did. I'm still not in love with the art, but it is consistent, emotive and reminiscent of the cartoon, and those things are actually more important. And the coloring is great. You know, actually, the art really is growing on me...
The writing was top notch- I'm back to imagining it with the voices running through my head. We got new characters and development on the old ones. The flashbacks were well constructed- besides not being boring to a longtime fan, they gave personality to the newish character telling it. Even Margot Yale is transitioning more and more from being the Yuppie punchline to being an important character, and her being on the taskforce may well be a highlight.
When I first saw the 36/32 greeting I thought it was an FBI thing, upon repeat I figured it was Illuminati related, and the idea that Matt has really progressed in the society leads to so many interesting ideas and conflicts.
I was surpised to see 'the talk' come so soon. It's only been 2 'episodes' since she happily kissed Goliath, and those two involved a date. But something about the art made it feel that enough time passed to make her think these things, and her conversations with Jason and Morgan really sold the idea that these concerns would be foremost in her mind. We got a good dose of Jason's nobility and self pity, and I really liked getting to know Morgan; how he innocently blurts out his surprise that she could have been silently dating a guy for two years and then tries as politely as possible to cover it.
Great art moment when the distance between Goliath and Elisa is both figurative and literal on top of the castle. Great "Wha?!" moment when Elisa talks about Goliath's options being limited and the next page showing Demona. Of course she meant, and he understood, Delilah, but it was a fun mess with your head moment. More fascinating is Delilah's response. It was subtle enough that it doesn't have to be the meat of this story, but it is definately going to come up. When she says "if that is you wish" you know she has a lot to learn about free will and self determination, probably even more than the other clones.
(Yeah. "Send in the clones!" Way hoaky. I would not have said that in their place...if only because I would have already said it too many times and have incured a promise of punishment from the other Labrythians if I were to ever do it again;)
I'll send a much shorter letter for the letter column, but it does bring about the question: why no e-mail address for the letter column?
Thanks and I'm waiting with bated breath for #4 and Bad Guys!
I don't need an e-mail address for the letter column when I've got ASK GREG...
I'm glad the "mess with your head" moment worked for you. I try.
Hi again Greg! Just spent the last few days pouring into Comic #3. Trying to figure out the stuff thats there, building on what has happened, and into what may.
Things I loved:
1 - The Return of Hacker as Illuminati Agent.
2 - Alex's Gargy Costume! (so cute! I noticed his costume was red...does he like Brooklyn's coloring the best?)
3 - The permanent consequence of Jason's Paralysis.
4 - 32/36 (I haven't figured it out yet but I'm working on it)
5 - Castaway is smart! (no hammers)
6 - NEW CANNON!!!!
7 - Duval's Mysterious Phone call! (again, consequences)
I admit there isn't much I didn't like. I know I am probably one of the few fans that doesn't mind the differences in styles of the comic to the cartoon. I know some of us have gotten rather vehement over it. I look at it this way: It's a different medium, why not let it take it's own shape as an entity, just like the show? As long as the characters are true, the stories good, and you can hear the voices in your head (eep!), and the arts not stick figures, whats the problem? It's all good!
I am just thrilled to have some new cannon to disect after 11 years. And to be old enough to actually do it in depth!!!
Thank you. New canon and new CANNONS...
Hi Greg. I've known about this place for years and yet I've never posted here before. I'm not sure why. I know you get this all the time but I just wanted to say that I wouldn't be the same person I am today without "Gargoyles." I believe it has changed my life for the better and I wanted to thank you and those who worked on it for bringing those amazing charcters to life, and for sticking by it for all this time.
Anyway, here's my review for comic #3, "Invitation Only." Beware, it's quite long.
First off, the art-as a whole, it's okay. Not great, but certainly good. My major complaint is that the characters sometimes look distorted, particularly Elisa. In the beginnig of her talk with goliath, she looks like she's aged twenty years-it reminded me of the off-model old Demona in the beginning of "Hunter's moon," Not that big of a deal though. The scenes in the labyrinth look good. One little continuity gaffe I noticed: in some scenes the mutates have tails and in some they don't. It's a little disconserting. And Morgan's skin appears too light-he struck me as being much darker in the cartoon-more like that Cedric Harris guy's skin color. Nothing major, just some things I noticed.
On to the story. It's awesome! Obviously setting up the characters for what's to come. Goliath and Elisa's relationship is my favorite element of the series, so I'll focus a large part of the review on them. I've really been looking forward to Elisa and Goliath's discussion. I've always wanted to know what you had in mind for it. It wasn't particularly surprising-I've pretty much already figured what Elisa's argument would be, but it was nice to see it finally come to fruition.
I like Elisa's scenes with Morgan and Jason. It seems what Morgan said about not bringing Goliath to a picnic and never tallking about him is what promted her to rethink things. I mean, she'll have to hide her relationship with goliath from most people for her whole life-she'll have to appear to be single to the outside world.
And Jason's line about her needing to be with a man who will give her everything she's ever wanted-I wonder if he's implying himself. I aslo wonder if he knows that Elisa's "mysterious boyfriend" is goliath...he's got to have thought of it at least.
Anyway, I really feel for elisa. She's obviously torn, and her feelings are genuine and realistic. When she was telling goliath that she wanted to be a "gargoyle-loving cop" and have a normal life with a house and kids, I thought to myself that would be impossible. A "normal" life for her went down the tubes once she became the gargoyles' friend and protector. Their relationship is harder for her than it is for him, I think. She has to live in two different worlds in a way.
Something interesting to note, when I read through the discussion the second time, I thought about the second page with the Xanatos' little family moment and felt there was a connection there with Elisa and Goliath. Here's what elisa wants- a happy little "normal" family with a husband and a child. But as we all know, the Xanatos' are anything but normal and two of them aren't even fully human.
I felt really bad for Goliath throughout the issue. He's not having a good time in these comics so far. I thought he would say more while Elisa is breaking up with him-but his expressions says it all. He's not happy. I almost had to laugh when he asks delilah out later-he doesn't even look her in the eye! No wonder her answer to him is so emotionless.
One thing that really interests me about whole elisa/goliath thing in the comics is that it's not so subtle anymore. In the cartoon there was this kind of wink-wink, nudge-nudge thing going on with them, but now we're getting words like "boyfriend," and "Mate" and "Husband" thrown around! Even though they're experiencing a setback, I can't help thinking it's about time! I can't wait to see them finally getting together for good. All the years of waiting will be worth it :)
As for the rest of the comic: I like how the title of the story coincides with the Xanatos invitation on the title page. I also find it amusing for some reason that Foxs' name comes before David's on the invite.
I like the little family moment with the Xanatos'-and like I mentioned earlier, I think it segues in nicely with Elisa's little break-up speech later in the issue.
The radio(television?) broadcast is amusing-typical media-never have their facts straight.
It's nice to see some new cops at the 23rd other than elisa, matt, and morgan. I already knew Morgan's full name but it was kind of weird seeing "Morgan Morgan" in print as canon. I wonder what people who don't know the backstory will think...heh maybe some will think it's a typo. I'm also curious to know what the taskforce members think of the gargoyles (other than elisa, matt, and margot).
The Illuminati has got to stick its nose into everything-playing all sides. I wonder what their true goal is, and what they're getting out of it. After this issue, I find myself becoming more interested in the Illuminati. I haven't really been before.
And Martin Hacker-I find myself really disliking him. He's even more slimy than Xanatos! Whenever we got the closeup of him saying "32" I had the urge to slap that smirk off his face.
So Xanatos plans to reveal the gargoyles after the party. Even though he harbors them, he still does sneaky things behind their backs-I can't wait to see how this all plays out in later issues. I don't understand the significance of Hacker taking off his ring and putting it in his pocket during his scene with Xanatos.
Demona's cameo: I'm not sure if this really fits in with the pacing of the rest of the issue, but I am curious to find out what she's planning now. I think the remnants of the praying gargoyle statue could've been made more apparent. If I didn't read the spoilers, I would have no idea what's going on there. I'm glad I know some of the backstory with the Atlantean Crystal. And a smiling Demona is never a good sign!
I'm really glad to see the labyrinth again. I've always liked the subplots with the mutates. I don't understand what goliath means when he says they have to honor their obligations before going to the labyrinth. It seems the only purpose he has for going there is to ask Delilah out, and brooklyn tags along because he's sick of seeing broadway and angela together.
I'm very intrigued by this new character in the labyrinth. She does kind of look like a young punk version of Elisa, but I seriously doubt that it's her in disguise, as some people seem to think. I wonder her name isn't revealed in this issue. I hope she'll play a part in more Gargoyle stories, and isn't just there for a conveniant way to bring newcomers up to speed on the story of the mutates and clones-speaking of which, it's a little annoying to have to have two pages of backstory that most fans already know, but it was told and illustrated well so I think it's still entertaining. I like Al here too-he's got a great personality. I like his little name for Talon-"Boss-Cat" Cute.
I noticed that both Talon and Maggie proclaim "Send in the Clones!" heh, they're certainly meant for each other. The clones' big dramatic entrance is a little corny though. I look forward to seeing more of Delilah, and I'm very curious as to her role in the rest of this story arc. Brooklyn gets snubbed by Goliath. I don't know, for some reason I don't feel all that sorry for him-maybe it's because of his mopy "poor me" attitude since the beginning of the story arc. I would have thought that Goliath would have told Brooklyn on the way to the Labyrinth his intention of asking out delilah. I guess he didn't. I'm sure if brooklyn had showed an interest in her beforehand Goliath would't have intruded.
The scene where brooklyn and delilah are saying hi to each other is kind of sweet though. It made me wonder if you ever briefly considered pairing these two up. I am very curious to find out who delilah's mate will be.
And then of course we got Thailog. I had a feeling he would show up at the end of this issue. The smile with all the teeth is really creepy-a bit much, I think. A great cliffhangar, and it will be hard to wait for the upcoming books. I'm very excited to see how this all plays out. And I thank you for reading.
There's so much I'd love to say in response... and I'm sure my ASK GREG readers would love it if I did, but I really feel the need to resist the temptation, particularly so soon after the issue has come out and before #4 has come out. I've got to train myself to let the material stand on it's own. If I really NEED to defend, explain, elaborate, etc., well, then I've fundamentally failed anyway.
So let me simply say thank you for the praise, and <hee hee hee> over what we still have in store in the coming issues. If you like this, I think you'll get even more exciting as Clan-Building continues.
I just got comic #3 in the mail yesterday, and after reading it, I'm very excited! I'm so happy to have new Gargoyle stories written by you. For many years I have told my friends how I miss Gargoyles so so much... And when I say that, I meant new stories.
The art in comic #3 I think more like the TV show then the first two. (And I think it looks great!) I was quite surprised by what happened with Goliath and Elisa though. For some reason, I never thought Elisa would do that. Especially after Hunter's Moon. I don't know, I guess I am just a hopeless romantic, heh. But I guess I can't really relate to Elisa. I don't care so much about having kids, and having the normal family life... But it's important to me to be love with someone who loves me. I am in a long distance relationship, and have been for almost two years. I love my boyfriend so much and even though our relationship is hard because he lives on the other side of the world, I wouldn't change it for anything. (We see each other a few times a year, and he will be moving here after next year, but that's besides the point) I guess I just felt like Goliath and Elisa's love was strong enough to over come anything, but I guess not... Or at least, Elisa is not thinking of that at that moment... I really look forward to more comics, and I really want to know what happens with Goliath and Elisa... I'm so happy though about these comics being made!
Stay tuned... or, uh, stay turning the pages... or poised to turn pages...
You get the idea.
The last word on Goliath & Elisa has not -- and I think this comes as no spoiler -- been written yet.
Let's see. I first discovered 'Gargoyles' when I was 11. I started posting at S8 when I was 13. And the first original material to be released since then was released on 28 March, which was my 23rd birthday. A great birthday present, though first I had to wait a week for it to cross the pond -- better than waiting 6-8 weeks from unreliable mail order companies like with #1 and #2 though. Now I've found a local comic trader, thankfully.
I didn't think a week would be too long to wait -- it's been eleven years since new material, right? I can wait 7 puny days, and I'd managed to keep quite cool waiting for #3 so far. But from the 28th, I was going out of my mind. Whenever I checked my e-mails I kept looking S8 up and crossing it out when I saw the words SPOILERS. I deleted S8 from my bookmarks and scrubbed my history so I couldn't be tempted to access it via the location bar. I found myself humming the theme tune. Real geekgasm.
So today, I went to the comic shop with my brother in tow (he was shopping for a card). I picked up my copy, handed it to my bro. He, of course, starts reading it and since he's got special needs spends roughly an hour engrossed in the comic, reading it at his own pace, digesting everything carefully, brow furrowed in deep concentration while I'm cursing myself for not ordering two copies. His conclusion is that "I really like Thailog!" (no spoiler, he's been saying that for the last decade) and he asked me "do you like that drawing?" (meaning the artwork) in such a way that suggests he's a little ambivalent about it. He's excited for #4 and more Demona, and he likes Matt Bluestone.
(On a personal note, it's the first time since we were kids that my bro and I have really been able to share this sort of thing. As kids, we used to watch the same cartoons, read the same comics, play the same games - and, of course, we watched 'Gargoyles' together. But obviously over the years we've drifted apart in that respect; a lot of the stuff I'm into these days goes over his head and a lot of the stuff he's into just doesn't excite me. Plus, he stopped wearing his hearing aid and cochlear implant a lot of the time as a teenager so striking up a conversation is a much more laboured effort. We just don't have that much to chat about these days. But we both love 'Gargoyles' and we had a really good geek-out chat about it earlier of the sort we haven't had for... well, years. His memory is actually much better than mine and he reminded me of a lot of things in "The Reckoning" I'd forgotten, not having seen the back half of S2 for many years. I told him about 'Bad Guys' and he's excited for it, though he hasn't quite grasped the concept. Thailog's the baddest guy in the universe, the comic's called 'Bad Guys', Thailog's got to be the star, right? Anyway, it's nice to have a genuine shared obsession, just like the old days and besides being delighted at the return of the comic as a fan, I'm particularly grateful for that.)
Anyway, cutting to the chase -- the issue is splendid. And only, like, 20% of that is pure bias. It's genuinely a good read -- especially considering it's the equivalent to the first act of an episode, the set-up.
- My absolute favourite bit: Xanatos's plan to have the great and good mix with gargoyles so they can't then deny their sentience! That is GENIUS -- vintage Xanatos. Man, you've kept that up your sleeve for a long time (and I'm glad you did).
- I love the news report at the start pointing out that gargoyles can't speak so you don't have anything to worry about from ones that do. It's interesting because it gives the Quarrymen a genuine reason to feel vindicated -- they know (or are told) that the gargoyles are sentient, and malevolent to boot.
- Cedric Harris, Tri Chung, Phil Travanti, nameless Labyrinth girl -- pretty awesome to get some new characters. Even more awesome when they have lines. Guess I'm going to have to voice cast them myself. Nifty that Travanti's featured before. One of the things that particularly excited me about the comic was that I knew that soon I'd be able to rewatch my DVDs with a new perspective on things. And already that's the case - I'll be able to identify and name one character. Lovely! Interesting to see the make-up of the Task Force. I'm sure Margot's not going to like the way it's being run. Hard to argue that it doesn't seem like the NYPD exactly have it as their top priority.
- 36/32 makes a great linking element -- a really simple way of establishing what the Illuminati are (without even getting bogged down even with what they're called). But what's the significance? I thought it was their own ID numbers at first, but obviously not. Some way of recognising each other, but do the numbers have greater significance? And how often do they change? I have a really cool thought for what it might be... but it might qualify as an idea so I'm not going to mention it here!
- I love Angela. She's still the one who can look at people's behaviour from an outside angle and ask the question "is this a good thing?" And poor old Brooklyn. I love that two issues in a row he's been knocked back without him ever really being a consideration. Lex is the only beat in the comic that feels slightly wasted - partly because I can't quite imagine anyone actually saying "no poisonous stickpins" without feeling very silly and mainly because it feels like the same scene we had between these characters last issue.
- Castaway's so much fun. The character's reputation is sort of maligned by his TGC characterisation, but he's cautious as well as scary. Also? I LOVE that you used the word "clouting". Clouting! I don't hear that word enough. I must use it more often in day to day conversation.
- Man, I love Hacker. I was always sad he was one of the few characters from the pre-Avalon stories not to return later in Season 2. Duskrider Q nailed it a few questions ago when he described him as "unimposing but charismatic". His playing one side off against the other is too much fun and very well done. All this is stuff that's been spilt on Ask Greg but I still got a real buzz out of it playing out. I took from the issue that none of the motives are entirely genuine. I have to wonder how much Xanatos already knows, or guesses, about Hacker's double-dealing.
- The distinction between a "husband" and a "mate" is really good. Really sharp: not just a species thing, it suggests a lot of cultural issues to me. A husband implies a whole range of issues -- legal, social, economic -- while a mate seems to represent something much simpler in some ways, or at least more specific to the gargoyles' way of life.
- The 'distanced' page does feel a little bit jarring in pacing, and while I can't begrudge David Hedgecock the time saved doing two versions of the same panel to link scenes, I would have liked to have seen a slightly different angle. I appreciate you wanted to make the continuity between the two scenes clear though. The conversation is good and the issues are interesting. Some people seem to think that Elisa's being cold with all this, but I think it all feels quite realistic. Painful, but truthful.
- The Elisa/Morgan stuff I liked. This is where I sort of miss Keith David and Salli Richardson to give us added spin on the lines: does he believe her? Is he taking it as kind of a contrived excuse for a knock-back? It feels to me like Elisa is worried that's how he's taken it. I really like Elisa and Morgan together. As I said in the comment room during the debate about whether you'd go for Jason or Morgan in this story, I kind of hoped you'd go with Morgan because he represents a genuine shot at normalcy for her.
- Demona returns to St. Damien's. A big surprise: I hadn't expected to see it again. But there's something inside the Praying Gargoyle. I feel like this has been spilt before but luckily I don't recall the details.
- The promise Jason demands of Elisa is what nudges her to talk to Goliath. But I feel like Jason knew (or guessed) what he was doing to her there and masked that by talking about himself. I still think he's kind of a jerk. But maybe I'm being too hard on him. Maybe he was just being selfless. Great character. Well, they all are.
- A lot of characters here. I'd kind of expected the cast to settle down immediately after "The Journey", as with "Vendettas" and "Turf" after "The Gathering". I'm in two minds really. I like meeting everyone again, and it's a great call for the first story back, but it also means it feels more like a buffet than a proper meal. I can't wait to dig deep into some characters, flashbacks and all. I expect the moment you do something very tight and narrowly focused I'm going to be whining "but we haven't seen X, Y and Z for five months!!"
- The exposition pages are a necessary evil I suppose, but they do break the flow a bit. Have you considered replacing them with some kind of introductory page separate from the comic, akin to the "Previously on Gargoyles..." segment? I know you did this a few times ("The Cage" for one) but it all seems to slow the narrative down. Also, boiling it down that much doesn't really do justice to the thing. Oh well.
- I'm kind of curious about Al's friend. Their last exchange makes me think there's more to that plot that meets the eye... "It's not that..." ... but what? Hmmmmmm.
- Thailog! Well, I was spoilt by the #4 press releases for that much. The character's marvellous, but he's never captured my heart to quite the degree that many of the other antagonists on the show did so I'm probably not quite as excited as others. I didn't notice until I read Matt's review the 'trick or treat' mirroring device at the top and tail of the issue. So cool.
Anyway, the issue is fantastic. The writing is wonderful. It's lean but jam-packed with great character moments and things to speculate about. Magnificent.
Only thing I'm not looking forward to is that torturous wait after the next issue release but before it arrives in the UK. Have you considered making the comic available online like some of SLG's other comics? No replacement for the real paper issues but it would be so lovely to be able to read the comics along with others in the fandom, and I know other people have trouble getting hold of them. I realise there are all sorts of reasons why this might not be advisable, particularly if it dents off-the-shelf sales. At any rate, I guess it's a good test of my willpower.
Many thanks for your benevolent labours, Greg, and to all your co-conspirators on the comic. Keep up the fantastic work.
Thanks, Ed. As for releasing the comic on-line, I guess I'd suggest you raise the question directly with SLG.
Hey! Here's the second part of my page-to-page ramble of the 3rd Gargoyles comic book.
Part Three: Invitation Only
Part 2 Pages 13-24
Page 13: Goliath is still speechless. Elisa is trying to be as nice as she can about the whole situation. I really like Goliath's line, "You do not want a mate. You want a husband." There is a difference between the two to him. Why did Elisa mention Delilah? If I'd been her, I wouldn't have hinted towards her.
Page 14: Nice cameo appearance of Demona. Another plot for another time.
Page 15: Lex and Broadway are really pumped up for the party. What obligation did they have to the Labyrinth clan? I didn't know they checked up with them regularly. And by the way… how do you spell Labyrinth? Because my spell check says it is spelled L-A-B-Y-R-I-N-T-H, but in the comic book it is spelled L-A-B-R-Y-I-N-T-H. The girl that is with Al looks like a rugged Elisa to me. I don't know why. I also like how the kid has a "G" on his shirt. What's it stand for? I think I know, but then again I could be wrong.
Page 16: I like that Al has a job. He pushes the button. Hey… that's an important job. It's too bad we didn't get to hear the girl's name. I would've liked to have heard it. It's good to see the mutates again. Brooklyn and Goliath look so enthused to be there. Again with Brooklyn's wings being under his arms. It needs to stop.
Page 17: It's good to see the clones again, especially Delilah. I like her better, probably because she's not an exact clone of a certain person, but more like 2 people… actually 1 person and 1 gargoyle. It's interesting that Talon doesn't say anything to Goliath about staying with Xanatos. You'd think they'd be at odds with that.
Page 18: A nice recap of how the mutates were created. Sevarius looks creepy with half his face behind the liquid stuff and Talon looks gross with bumps all over him. Al leaves out Fang's name. Interesting…
Page 19: Another recap of how the mutates ended up underground, how Thailog was created, and how the clones came into being. I like how Al calls Xanatos "Rich Dude."
Page 20: Poor Brooklyn. I wasn't expecting him to go for Delilah, but then again, who else is he going to find to go with him to the party? Goliath totally took that away from him. Brooklyn doesn't look too happy about that. I have a feeling that this incident is going to add to Brooklyn's Angela/Broadway ordeal. Delilah's response to Goliath seems almost like she's following his command and not deciding for herself. Could that have to do with him looking like her former master?
Page 21: I didn't get that Chaz from this page was the Chaz from Fang's old group until I read it somewhere. It's a good thing that John can show some restraint and not go as far as harming innocent people to help his obsession with destroying gargoyles. Yet another appearance from Martin Hacker. He didn't even knock.
Page 22: Another close up on Hacker's face along with John's. So far, I get the feeling that John is the only one who doesn't mind that Hacker is there to visit him, unlike Matt who is disgusted with him, and Xanatos who tolerates him. Again, Hacker is playing another guy. Three guys to mix up in the same day… what a job. The first time I read this page, my eye shifted to the next page and saw the silhouette of Thailog. I thought that maybe John was referring to Thailog as the project that Hacker was there to check on and that the Quarrymen had captured Goliath's clone. That's what I get for glancing at the other page.
Page 23: And here Al goes to accomplish his job… yet he lets in one gargoyle that you'd never want to face unless it was daytime. I hope Al can run fast. I also hope that Talon is ready for a fight. I love Thailog's shadowy appearance.
Page 24: THAILOG!!! Hey, that's exactly what Talon said, after me of course. The smile… I could've done without. It's weird. Besides that… IT'S THAILOG!!! Shooting at the wall?
Well, that's it. Thanks for such a great comic book. I can't wait for #4 and for BAD GUYS.
Thank you for your time and patience.
He wasn't shooting at the wall. Those were aiming lasers.
Hey! I've wanted to do rambles on all the gargoyles' episodes, and have only gotten around to the first one. So I wouldn't forget anything, I wrote my ramble as I watched the episode instead of summing it all up and highlighting certain things. I did the same thing with the Gargoyles Comic Book #3: Invitation Only. I went through page by page and wrote about each one. I did this so I wouldn't forget anything. So, since it is kinda long, here are the first 12 pages.
Part Three: Invitation Only
Part 1 Pages 1-12
Page 1: At first glance, I thought that the invitation on the table had been sent to Washington and that I was looking at the president's desk, or something like that, until I looked at the next page. I really like the mask next to the invitation. I also like how Alexander's name was included on the invitation. I wonder what he'll be doing while his parents are at their party. Will he be with them or somewhere else… (I'm not lingering off here to sound mysterious, I just didn't know what else to put).
Page 2: I love Alexander's costume. I also like the quote, "Sure, Manhattan may be infested with real monsters, but it's not like the beasties can talk, right?" People are really trying to make them look like horrible monsters, and to do that, they make them look unintelligent and degrade them. But then again, how many of these people have really met one?
Page 3: I like that Matt is in charge of the taskforce and not Elisa. It gives him a bigger role to play and it doesn't make Elisa look like the biggest Gargoyle fan out there. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's better to lay low and not have stupid people ruining her life because they know she's a gargoyle lover (talking about the average Joe out there who wants to vandalize stuff and needs a good reason to do so). I also like being introduced to new characters. I hope to see more of the new detectives.
Page 4: I like Morgan's line, "Uh, detective… I mean… Elisa…" It's weird to hear his voice in my head say her name, cause he's always calling her detective. I was also I bit weirded out with him asking Elisa out. I just can't see the 2 of them together or thinking that Morgan has a thing for her. I always saw him as an older mentor type to her. Him actually calling it a date made it even… well… weirder.
Page 5: I love this page. Matt totally distrusts Hacker, and acts like he'd rather stick his head in a trashcan instead of talk to him. He also acts disgusted with him. It's all good. I like how Hacker makes Matt use their code when Matt could've done without it. "Formalities must be observed." Matt's face is priceless when Hacker puts his arm around him. I should probably mention something about Hacker's speech about the world not being ready to have gargoyle and humans together yet, just to set myself up for when I mention his other speeches with Xanatos and Castaway. Well… I guess I just mentioned it.
Page 6: It's good to see Jason again. I miss not hearing his voice; it's a good thing I've got it stored up in my head. I didn't expect to see him handcuffed to his bead. I find it almost humorous, handcuffing a paralyzed guy to his bed. But then again, he's full of surprises. His conversation with Elisa is typical. He still holds a spark for her and she's second-guessing her relationship with Goliath. It had to come up eventually. It's also pretty clear that he doesn't want to see Elisa with a gargoyle. There's still some dislike going on there for the species, I think. I do hope that Jason finds someone else though. He deserves a second chance.
Page 7: More breaking out of stone. It's funny to see Elisa trying not to get hit with stone. It's interesting to see Angela and Broadway holding hands now. They don't seem worried to show that they like each other. I also like Brooklyn's look over from the corner.
Page 8: You can see more of Angela's naiveté here with her not knowing much about Halloween. Elisa looks reluctant to speak with Goliath, but goes on with it and confronts him.
Page 9: What a teaser! What did the gargoyles decide to dress up as? I can't wait to find out in the next comic. I really don't like that Brooklyn is folding his wings underneath his arms now. Is that going to be a new permanent thing? Are you trying to distinguish his look by doing this? It just doesn't look right. I like the hint at where Hudson and Bronx are going to be going. All I have to say is that I hope they are going where I think they're going. I also like how Lex is still weary of Fox. After Broadway tells Angela that no one will know that they are gargoyles, her follow up question is a good one. "And that's a good thing?"
Page 10: Now to the more emotional page. Goliath is taken off guard and backs away when Elisa says that their feelings "are not enough." She makes a good point. How can Goliath argue with her reasoning? The line, "Goliath, I want children…" was a big hit on him, I think. He is actually speechless after this.
Page 11: Again with Hacker and his "formalities". More number stuff. I like the up close looks on Hacker and Xanatos' faces when they give their numbers. Xanatos is as calm as ever and Hacker looks about the same. I had to go back and look at Matt's face when he said his number on page 5. He looks annoyed. Anyways, back to page 11. Hacker looks funny with the mask on his face. It's also interesting to hear Xanatos speak of a "phase one." Him and his plans and phases. Too bad Xanatos can't go to his party. I guess he won't be playing host.
Page 12: I almost missed this page and went right to page 13. It's a good thing I went back and looked. More of Hacker's teasing lies. He says one thing to Matt, and another to Xanatos. Exactly when is he telling the truth? Who knows except you, Greg? Xanatos seems to tolerate this guy. I get the feeling he doesn't like him much, though. It's just the way he talks to him.
Okay, so there's my ramble on the first half of the 3rd comic book. Hope you didn't fall asleep or anything like that.
Thank you for your time, your patience, and a great comic book.
I don't see Morgan as a mentor to Elisa -- after all, Elisa had already made detective the first time they met in Awakenings -- just someone she thought of as a friend and co-worker. But I think there are hints in the tv series that Morgan may have other feelings for Elisa.
Issue #3, Wow ... anywho. Cuddos on the late this time (one month). I'm loving the comic book, I'm just concerned what the other people would think if they knew I bought the last issue :( . Alas poor Jason, we knew him well, but a toss up for Morgan Morgan (some name), asking out Elisa wow. And was that anger in Goliath's voice with "LIMITED?!". I honestly forgot about Delila and thought Elisa was talking about Demona (the next page, who knew?) "Thirty-six, Thirty-two" what kind of greeting is that from the Fishing Lord. Did Elisa get invited to the ball, or was Xanatos expecting Goliath to bring her? (I think he might have a thing for her). And last but not least, who is the new girl that is in the laberynth,my "Amazing Spider-sense" is telling me that her name might be important. Also, howmuch leeway do you have for violence?
So far I've been allowed to do everything I want, violence-wise. I'm not an ultra-violence kinda guy though, so...
Greg, you said in regard to another response to issue 3 -- "To answer your question, I generally view each issue of the comic as being equivalent to one act of an episode. This is not a hard and fast rule, but it seems to be how things are breaking down. I was able to fit my adaptation of "The Journey" into two issues because the first issue had extra pages. But normally, I'll need three issues to do MOST stories justice. (Three acts to a TV episode = three issues of the comic.) Or so it seems. I'll admit that I'm still thinking TOO MUCH in TV terms."
I have to say it's a relief to hear you say you recognize this this because this was precisely my reaction to Issue 3. It felt like an Act 1, all story setup, which is precisely why I can't really make a review on it. Personally, I wouldn't want anyone judging my whole 22 minute episode on just seeing the first act, so why would I do the same?
Though this also opens the door for me to bring up another concern of mine.
Both issues 1 and 2 have things in them that feel like subplots, so that each issue within the arc has some sort of beginning, middle, and end within itself. In Issue 1, the subplot is Vinnie and will he or won't he join the Quarrymen. There's that 'climax' if you will in the few panels when he comes to tell Castaway about the job in Japan and it becomes a will-he-or-won't-he moment (even though his story continues to issue 2, that's the real place where a choice is presented). In Issue 2, the suplot turns to Elisa, where the will-she-or-won't-she question becomes one of how will she respond to Goliath in the aftermath of being attacked before going on the date.
Issue 3 does not have this, as far as I can tell. We track Elisa for a while as she's given input about her relationship (Morgan's shock at not knowing she had someone, Jason encouraging her to have the best relationship possible), makes a decision to see other people, and the natural question becomes will-she-or-won't she start to act on this herself or will she back out. However, the rest of the issue switches to GOLIATH'S POV, providing no sense of resolution within the issue itself and leaving a sense of incompleteness. I am concerned what impact this would leave on anyone reading #3 as a first issue, would they feel they got their money's worth for an individual issue? Not being one myself, I honestly don't know.
As a former student, it's not easy to express concerns to someone who once taught me, especially in such a public forum but this is the only way I know you want to discuss this. Overall, I personally do enjoy what you're doing. But I know you have larger goals (especially regarding readership) and I'm concerned they're not being met as efficiently as maybe they could. I feel the need to at least express those concerns, but ultimately I respect that it is your story.
Well... I don't think I'm doing anything much different there than the other comics I've been reading recently. There's no pretense that issue #3 tells a complete story. (And I think you are really STRETCHING things, saying that #1 or #2 does either.) The issue opens with a radio announcer saying don't worry about any garg saying trick or treat and ends with a garg saying trick or treat that you should really be worried about. For me that presents a level of closure (or at least open-ended closure) that appeals and is satisfying. But you're right, it may not work for everyone. But I can't try to make my stuff work for everyone. I ONLY try to make it work FOR ME. (With a bit of common sense thrown in.) If it works for me, I have hopes it'll work for enough people to make the book a success. If it doesn't work for me, than I feel there's no chance of success for anyone.
So I write to please myself.
This is my first submission, though I've been reading the site for a few years now (I love the rambles).
Anyway, regarding this thirty-six, thirty-two business that you've been dodging... Would I be correct in assuming that this protocol (or whatever it is) wasn't in place in the year 975 AD (as depicted in "Vows")?
Secondly, there's a kid running around in the underground (also from issue 3) with a G on his T-shirt in the style of the Superman "S". Is there some significance in that that you intended ("Gargoyles", "Greg Weisman is Superman", etc) or is it a little flourish that was added in the art phase that you didn't know about?
Nothing is safe to assume.
The artist added the "G", but I liked it.
I read issue #3. I'm just so glad that Gargoyles is back. I can't wait to find out what Thailog is up to and what Demona is going to do with that gem. I thought the conversation between Elisa and Goliath was heart rendering. I remember reading a review that called it a kick in the shins to the readers (the reviewer also did not seem to understand that by definition of the work different species can't interbreed). I don't think so because A) I doubt it's permanent B) it is very natural for Elisa to want normalcy (it's normal to want to be normal). I do want to know how it's played out and what will turn Elisa around. The only problem I had was with the review with the origins of the clones, but I realize that was a necessary evil. The two characters who were discussing it are we going to see more of them.
You will see more of Al and his new friend.
My comicdealer seemed to have anticipated my needs or maybe Gargoyles is just of interest in Germany, too, I got the third issue Saturday.
It's nice to see the new stories and I'm eagerly waiting to see where this goes.
But there were also a couple of things I didn't like:
- The wings, in quite a few pictures they are just to small, especially one panel in issue 2 has Goliath with wings that wouldn't even support Lexington
- Hacker, I just don't like the secret worldspanning grey emminence organisation thing, and I despise Hacker in particular. That's a topic I have to deal with, well, one can't have everything, I'm sure the Pack will be back, too, sometime, and I don't like them either.
- I have the feeling that you are too fast, the comic reads kind a nervous, jumping madly from one scene to the next. Partially that feeling is probably due to me reading Japanese comics who by their very nature seem too have a slower pace and take more panels or space to develop a scene. There is one thing I found particulary weird, that's the Goliath/Elisa thing, just at the end the end of the series we had the first acknowledgement of feelings, the first two comics had Elisa making herself pretty and a botched up date and suddenly we are at: "I didn't want to talk to you, because I didn't want to hurt you, but I want something different." Where did that come from, I never got the feeling that Elisa felt that way or wanted a standard family. The whole thing came out of the blue, while the text implies that is has been brewing for some time from Elisa''s side, would she really have gone through all the trouble witht he nice dress from the first two issues when she already had these deep rooted reservations? It seems like there is missing some back story or Elisa is somewhat fickle.
Ah, ok, I'm done ranting and will go back to winter sleep till the next issue is out.
Once again, I'm going to strive to let the Elisa/Goliath story stand on it's own and not get all defensive. I'm sorry it didn't work for you. All I'll say is that it fits my interpretation of Elisa's character, and I've been thinking about her for a LONG time.
Congrats on getting caught up with the que (at least for the moment).
Picked up Issues 2 and 3 today. (almost missed them, as Golden Apple had them in the Kids section while I was expecting them to be in the Alterntaive section, but I found them, so all is well).
Anyway I love the image on the last page! I'm hoping for a few rockin' panels of Talon vs. Thailog in issue 4, seeing as how they are 2 of my favorite characters, both visually and psychologicaly.
There were quite a few references to series history, most I caught, but for a few I had to really dredge though my memory (and the ask greg archives) to get them, since I haven't seen any of the second half of season 2 since it aired. (and yes I am spreading the word about both the comic and the DVD's that are out in the continuing hope that the sales numbers will reach the levels BVHV requires for that last set to be released.)
I love the Illuminati machinations that you're setting up. I always enjoy "wheels within wheels".
Okay here's a question since this is "Ask Greg":
Are the comic sales numbers reaching levels that will ensure production beyond the "Clan Building" arc? The greenlight for "Bad Guys" makes me think that numbers are doing good, but I don't want to take anything for granted. Especially after many of us blindly assumed we'd get Season 2 vol. 2.
One final note- You've had a rather expensive influence on my DVD impulse buying habits. I picked up Ben 10 season 1 on DVD having seen none of the show, solely on your recomendation at the Gathering last year. Totally worth it, by the way. I also picked up Gummi Bears Vol. 1, but that was an equal part personal nostalgia as much as that series influence on you for Gargoyles.
Anyway keep up the good work, looking forward to future issues of Gargoyles.
Oh also congrats on the Spider-Man gig, I'm totally stoked for that series! (Are you gonna set up a place to ask you about that series so we don't bog down this site with non-Garg questions? like that one :) )
I know I'm not totally caught up (again), but I don't feel too bad about it now. 65 messages, only a few weeks behind. We're at least in the ballpark. But managing one ASK GREG site is plenty. So Spider-Questions'll have to come here as well.
I don't know how we're doing sales-wise, to be honest. I think the phrase "don't take anything for granted" is wise. I don't think we're in any immediate danger of cancellation, but it seems to me that this is a business of fairly thin margins.
It is so awesome to finally have a new story in my hands, too good.
The first panel is a little confusing. Why would X and F have an invitation to their own party on the desk? Or was that an invite they sent to the Pres which he has sent back with his own invite?
The colors of the seal change on the next page and the invite now has a red section, weird.
I like the contrast of the panel with the announcer saying, "--but it's not like the beasties can talk, right?" while Alex says, "Doggie!" in a Gargoyles costume.
I'm surprised that Elisa would go along with Matt saying, "My taskforce. My rules." I mean since he's introducing her as his partner, shouldn't it be "our"?
Great to see some new characters as well as Hacker, gotta love Hacker! He's hacking into everyone's operation.
I was disappointed to only see Goliath in stone sleep, but I thought the art for the awakenings was really good.
Brooklyn doesn't get many lines and he didn't used to fold his wings like that unless he was wearing a jacket.
The Illuminati ring changes in appearance from when Hacker shows his F.B.I. id to when he takes it off. First it looks like a triangle with one horizontal line within it, making a smaller triangle with an eye inside. Then, when he takes it off, it seems to have three horizontal lines within it. Could this be Fox's enchanted jewelry?
I also think the girl in the Labyrinth is Elisa, just checking that Goliath does try with Delilah. And Goliath asks Delilah after he picks up Elisa's scent, and realizes she's there watching.
That's probably wrong, but it seems too weird to me that Goliath would ask out a being that he knows has been programmed and probably doesn't have enough awareness to even know what she is agreeing to.
If Brooklyn hadn't seen Goliath ask her out and then asked her out himself, she probably would have given the same response that she gave Goliath, "If that is your wish..."
Castaway saying, "no hammers" suggests he doesn't have much confidence in his own men to distinguish between a real garg and a human in a costume. A bit like his inability to distinguish between a monster and an intelligent being.
On the second last page Al is talking to the new girl when the alarms sound and he runs off, there is a strange image left in his place, is that just meant to be someone's shadow?
THAILOG!!! Yay, Thailog looks cool and pretty pleased about his, "Trick or treat?" one liner. As someone else mentioned, it does look like he is wearing a mask like the one Xanatos had on his desk, just part of Thailog's joke I guess. And I don't think he has fired a shot just yet, those lasers are from the sites at the top of the gun, not from the barrel itself.
With so many characters involved, this issue felt like The Gathering (but of the first and second races) or City of Stone. It has a lot going on but did not feel rushed and left me hanging for the next iss. Great work, keep it up.
Um... I don't know about you, but I always keep a copy of my own invitations. Gotta remember what exactly I invited people to. Or, to be honest, just like to have a copy.
Matt and Elisa are partners, but (a) Matt outranks her and (b) he's been put in charge of the Taskforce.
Hey Greg! Finally found the time to submit my tale/review on Clan Building: III - "Invitation Only." (I did a shorter version in the CR already).
Frankly, I was pretty anxious if I was going to be lucky enough to grab it on March 28, 2007, the day of the release. With the last two issues, the timing worked just right where I was able to buy them at my local comic book store in Phoenix. However, this issue was coming out while I was still at school in Los Angeles. Thus, I had to find a new comic shop QUICK. So the MINUTE I found out the release date, I asked anybody I knew if they had a reliable comic shop - and with a stroke of luck one of my buddies down the hallway in the dorm told me he went to one nearby for years, and was willing to give me a ride!
As I entered the shop, I rushed toward the wall where it said "New Releases" -- with a panic in my eyes when I DID NOT SEE IT!! Then a split second later, my good friend taps my shoulder and shows me a giant table where they place the new releases just released for all the customers to see . . . and right there, in the front of them all, was five or six copies of "Invitation Only." I snatched one quite quickly and ran to the register. My friend was quite amused by my giddyness (I've actually been showing him my Garg DVDs and we're currently at the point of "Protection").
I was able to restrain myself not to read my copy during the ride back so that I could thank him a bunch
Personally, I'm quite comfortable with Elisa sitting on the battlements, and thinking about it, after all she and Goliath have gone through, if she DID slip, Goliath - hurt or unhurt - would still jump to save her (he is a gentleman, after all).
I also loved Thailog's line at the end, clearly proving that radio announcer guy was COMPLETELY wrong! (In truth, I didn't notice this one on my own, until it was brought up in the Comment Room . . . nevertheless, I love it!)
Other random thoughts:
I love the invitation by the Xanatos family . . . I don't know, I just think the Eyrie Building rocks.
Alex is so cute in that costume (I'd love my kid to have one of those . . . heck, "I" want one of those!)
I do have a feeling Tri Chung is related to another Chung we may know one day . . . .
Love the clarification that it's Officer Morgan Morgan.
Love to hate Margot for being so "Margot-y" -- wonder what Brendan's doing??
Hacker is . . . wow. Cool to see him doing an Illuminati job of his that isn't just throwing Matt on wild goose-chases.
I'm curious if Jason is using his English or Scottish accent when talking to Elisa? Hmmm . . . .
Love the enchanted jewelry line -- Fox is such a great match for X.
Owen rocks, even though he's in just one panel.
I wonder where I can get a ring like Hacker's?? (and no, I won't visit the Hotel Cabal to earn one!)
I love the symmetric panel of Goliath and Elisa when talking about their relationship.
I love that little kid in the Labyrinth with the Superman "G" shirt. Wonder what that stands for?? :P
Love the whole flashback scene, and I know I'm going to be losing alot of those points in the Contest the CR had a couple of weeks ago . . . .
And finally, I enjoyed the more intelligent Castaway.
Once again, Greg, a thousand thanks for everything you've done for Gargoyles, even after ELEVEN years (I was eight when the show ended!) And seriously - May can't come soon enough . . . but after eleven years waiting, I think its possible, no?
What the DJ meant to say was, "If he says Trick or Treat he's obviously a clone!" (Kidding, kidding.)
Jason is, from his point of view, no longer affecting any accent, i.e. to Elisa, it's Scotish.
I do hope people are liking Castaway better now from these first three issues. This is the way I had always hoped to characterize him. Of course, if anyone prefers his Goliath Chronicle characterization, then... just don't tell me!
Picked up a copy of Issue #3 from a shop on Jefferson Davis Highway earlier today (I was out for another reason, and happened upon this place by accident). Read it as soon as I got home. What follows is a review:
First off, I have to say that I was more impressed with the coloring in this one. The coloring in the last issue was a huge nit with me, perhaps moreso than the pencils. I think the coloring in this issue has perhaps, more than the other two, best captured the feel of hopefulness that I know I heard someone mention on one of the bonus features on the first DVD (I can't remember if it was you or not; haven't watched the bonus stuff in a while).
Elisa and Goliath have the talk already, and Elisa actually brings up some good points. I think it was probably on Elisa's mind, but it had never actually been brought out in the open until now. Seems a little sudden, but Elisa's probably had a lot on her mind of late. I also found the chat between her and Jason interesting. For some reason, I always had the impression that Jason knew that the one Elisa was referring to at the end of "Hunter's Moon" was Goliath. But I think it's actually more interesting that he doesn't know.
It was also nice to see Hacker again. His conversation between him and Matt has me wondering if the Society had planned for Bluestone to head the Gargoyle Task Force. And I love how the Society "approves" of everyone's actions. Makes one wonder what their real agenda is.
I also liked Delilah's response to Goliath's invitation. Served as a subtle reminder that she was created to be Thailog's pet. Looking forward to hopefully seeing more dialogue between her and Goliath in the next issue.
The last panel was also quite good. Thailog with the dual guns. Thankfully, it reminded me of Spike from "Cowboy Bebop" and not a character from a John Woo movie. Don't think we've seen a gargoyle wield two guns before. I liked it.
I'm very much looking forward to Number 4 now.