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Hello Again, Here's question I do have for the 'Gargoyles' comics
In "Masque", when Billy and Susan Greene dress up as Jackal and Hyena, around that time Are They Aware that The PACK are Crimanals? Since they're Kids I would'nt be surprised if they did'nt but Surely their Parents watch the News and heard of the PACK committing real crimes and would try to Discourage their kids from watching the show, Or do they just Love the PACK's Show and Don't care what their parents or even the News Says?
Pretty much the latter.
Hello again Mr. Weisman, I Just Got and read the first 6 issues of the 'Gargoyles' Comics, and here's 1 of the Curious Questions I do have related to them, though it's More like a 3 in 1 question if you don't mind
Between "Invitation Only" and "Bash" Why Does Xanatos Invite Margot Yale and her Husband to his castle? Since He surely does know that She's the Assistant District Attorney and the Adviser to the gargoyle taskforce and is Clearly Against the Gargoyles, doesn't he think it would be too risky because of the Rumors circulating that he's "harboring" the gargoyles? And Does Margot only accept the invitation to Find Proof of the rumors?
I don't know if it's just me, but she certainly seems like the kind of dirty D.A who'd take advantage of her position by any means to get what she wants
There's nothing in what we've shown of Margot to indicate that she's dirty or corrupt. So I'd be careful with words like that.
I think the stated reasons given in the conversation between Xanatos and Hacker for inviting anyone would apply double to Margot in her position.
As for her showing up to snoop, clearly she didn't. She showed up to socialize with all the right people, including Judge Roebling and others. Whether or not she suspects Xanatos of harboring Gargoyles, she clearly couldn't imagine that he'd just be letting them walk around his party dressed like characters from Wizard of Oz.
There's a pretty comprehensive review of Clan-Building here:
This guy really knows the series.
In Clan Building Issue 4 (or 5, don't have my issues at hand) there is a scene of all sorts of people in the Labyrinth. The scene reminds me a lot of Issue 2 of Bad Guys where Anton/"Fred" is greeting people and Erin and Benny are running around.
In CB 4, are the kids running around Erin and Benny also, or just another pair of kids?
Sure, why not?
Catching up on my reviews/feedback to the comics... random thoughts as usual, and not very thorough.
Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the Trade Paperback, since I'm unemployed and low on money. Maybe someday. But I intend to continue buying the individual issues. I sincerely hope that the comic continues long after #12! And I really hope #8 comes around soon.
I forgot to mention, I like that #7 visually confirms that Delilah turns to stone like an ordinary gargoyle.
I read these a while ago, and watched the Radio Play online before reading #5. Lots of new revelations about the Illuminati in this set. Overall, I didn't find the Illuminati stuff in the series as interesting as this. They really are sinister and scary. Whatever they're doing, it won't be in the clan's best interest.
The different art styles in the three issues makes it strange to read them in sequence. Being the critic that I am, I notice many flaws, but I don't think that the art in #3 and #4 these issues was bad overall. I'm just not as good at describing the parts I like.
David Hedgecock's art isn't as good in this issue as in the latest issues drawn by him, which I already mentioned in my reactions to #7. It appears he was still getting used to all the various characters. Some good character asides are worked into the frames -- like Margot's obnoxious expression as she walks out of the meeting, and Brooklyn facing Malibu while Al talks to Shari. I don't understand the frame in which Talon is covered in warts, though. That wasn't in Metamorphosis, though it could have happened off-screen. I prefer Dustin Evans' shading style to Will Terell, but Morgan, Matt, and Thailog are colored oddly. I dislike the lines stabbing out of the gargoyles' eyes when they glow. As I've already said, Hedgecock's art looks best in #7, and with Robby Bevard's colors.
I quite like Nir Paniry's art on the Mutates, I think they looked very good. I also generally like his art for gargoyles' faces, I think he does good facial expressions in general (except the first page which looks more cartoony). I think he does a great job on Hudson. Talon's face when he says "I'm not leaving Maggie!" is especially well done, and very expressive. But the lines on Angela's face look like eyebrows. And I don't like seeing the gargoyles with such huge muscles. The split frame of Goliath's and Thailog's faces looks good. I also like the effect of the frame with just Goliath, Elisa, Morgan, and Delilah standing alone, as if the party is not all around them. It conveys the emotion of the situation (for Elisa and Goliath, at least) more effectively than words or faces could. I also enjoy the frame where Broadway and Lexington go after the food.
Karine Charlebois' art is amazing, it looks just like the animated show! The art in #5 is excellent, both the lines and the colors. Morgan still does look paler and Malibu's hair greener than I remember, but otherwise this issue is spot on the models in most frames. Brentwood is even drawn with the extra spikes he has on his shoulders. I am also pleased that the blood was drawn (not avoided) but also was not gratuitous or excessive -- especially considering that Thailog was not trying to kill anyone.
My main problem with these three issues is the inconsistency with the Mutates and the Clones, who are off-model in various ways in #3 and #4. In #3 the Mutates have tails. In both #3 and #4 the Clones have white teeth and red mouths, and Thailog and Brentwood look black instead of blue and purple. (Actually, I was kind of hoping at first that the Clones' mouths and teeth had simply changed to the normal color over time, as I find their black teeth and green tongues rather nasty.)
The inconsistency with Broadway's costume was less avoidable, though dramatic. Angela's footwear also seems to change from #4 to #5, but that is hardly noticable. Maybe they changed clothes?
In any case, such things also happened in the animated series, they were just harder to notice in moving images. They'll probably be rarer once every issue is by the same art team (you are going to pick a permanent color artist eventually, right? Please make it Robby Bevard!)
Ugh, Margot. She's just so hateable. I don't really know why, some other antagonists are more of a threat.
I think Hacker is lying to everyone he talks to here. The Illuminati manipulates and uses its lower members. Probably Hacker isn't totally in the loop either. They can't want to kill all gargoyles, because they already know where the Manhattan clan sleep. I think I know what they're up to with the Quarrymen, Taskforce, and Xanatos, but would guessing in print be an idea?
The conversation between Lex and Fox is funny, though less than last time. But I notice he takes her word for it.
I really like how Goliath and Elisa's relationship is handled. Too many fantasy stories have inter-species romances in which the characters don't act at all sensibly. They just jump into it as though cross-species mating is normal and they expect healthy children and total social acceptance. But Elisa has a realistic reaction. She may be a gargoyle-lover, but she isn't crazy. Goliath's behavior surprises me more, that he has no doubts at all. Is it because falling in love after losing the first mate is so rare that he doesn't question it? Because his life is already so different from how he grew up, that he just goes with it?
LIMITED is right.
And Demona takes the crystal. Nice to see that, to know what happened to it.
Hudson! I like Hudson, he's one of my favorite characters.
If people didn't want to believe real bad that gargoyles are just animals, if the idea of sentient gargs wasn't so impossible for a person, I doubt they'd fall for the "I'm wearing a mask" trik. No way a garg's face looks like a rubber mask.
"Excuse me? Cyborg." Somehow this line is very funny to me. But how does his costume just happen to be identical to the one in Future Tense? Did Puck see the costume in a prophecy? It can't be a coincidence. Of course it is only a costume, but from an in-the-universe point of view, the perfectly identical appearance is pretty creepy.
Go Claw! He has some guts in him.
Roebling is hilarious. Clearly he is wasted. And Delilah is so naive! Who would ever say such things in public, to total strangers... wow. English she has learned, but not basic social niceties.
I wonder why Alex is growing so fast. Is it his magic training? And I can't fail to notice that this Ambassador Chung has a son named Terry... he's pretty young yet, though.
I was very worried about Maggie when I read this. Now having #7 I'm not worried anymore of course.
Clearly Derek has a lot of feeling for her.
I love the way Owen handles Thailog. He knows that if his head is blown off, he will be dead like any mortal. But he's deadpan calm as always.
And that line about endlessly repairing the castle had me laughing so hard!
The bloody cover of #5 with the Disney logo on it is ironic/amusing/strange. I'm sure most people don't expect that from a Disney comic! But I was sure you weren't ready to kill Goliath yet, so I didn't worry.
I already watched the Radio Play but of course it is much better with visuals. Because I watched the Radio Play, I get to hear Brentwood's hilarious lines in my head. I gasped along with the audience at the end.
There are Mary and Finella. It has to be them. And using their old clothes as costumes.
Morgan sure takes that news very well. That's kind of him.
I was very surprised that Duval is only #2, and I'm eager to learn who #1 is. We will find out eventually, right?
I laughed so hard at the Super-Garg pose! Brooklyn looks hilarious there.
Never expected Angela to start dropping profanity.
The way the clan treat the clones is kind of sad. I understand that for the Manhattan clan, the clones are unsettling and perhaps frightening, and it is difficult to think of them as being their own separate selves, partly because until now they have mostly seemed fairly passive, serving Thailog or going to the Labyrinth because they were told to. Yet I can also see that the Manhattan clan are being very inconsiderate and dismissive, and I imagine it makes the clones feel pretty bad.
I wonder about what led them to choose the Labyrinth over Thailog. Angela phrases it in terms of good and evil, but I have the feeling the clones did not reject Thailog for that reason. They aren't really old enough to have a good grasp of "good" and "evil" yet, though of course that isn't to say they can't or won't learn about such things in time. I think it was more a matter of freedom and slavery to them, than a concrete conviction that Thailog has done immoral things. Probably also it was a matter of their personal liking for the Mutates, and for each other, versus Thailog. Whereas Brentwood likes Thailog as a person more than he likes the Mutates or his siblings, but I don't get the feeling that he has a clear sense that Thailog has been "evil," either. I could be wrong, but it seems they are too young to expect that of them yet. Nevertheless, Delilah knows when she herself has been wronged, whether or not she phrases it that way. I was certainly surprised by her and Breentwood's choices here.
The scene with Jeffery Robbins is very nice. But does Hudson really smell like concrete? The stuff is made of limestone I think. And how does Robbins know that gargoyles are strictly nocturnal? Seems like the Quarrymen are telling people about stone sleep...
But I'm glad to see Robbins and Dr. Sato become friends to the gargoyles here, even knowing what they are. It even looks like Brendan was the one who got the doctor.
Quincy and Xanatos interacting is amusing. Xanatos making wisecracks at the #2... he's rather full of himself. But amusing.
In the end Elisa and Goliath kiss. And he says something very wise about free will. Brooklyn becomes funny. And Sevarius gets in a rather grotesque line.
Glad you liked the run. I was pretty proud of it. Hope 7-9 works as well for you.
Before Thailog showed up at the Eyrie on Halloween, 1996, what was Goliath's reaction, if any, to Lexington's costume?
Did Goliath see it? Did he focus on it AT ALL... or perhaps was his attention focused elsewhere?
You've mentioned that many of the Goliath Chronicles stories were based on stories that you'd planned to do for Season Three, but which the new production team drastically altered (so that "Runaways" was based on Brooklyn's Timedancer story, and "Ransom" on the multiple tricksters and Alex story). Was "Genesis Undone" (the story about Thailog and the Clones dying) similarly based on the Double Date story that we got to see at last in #3 - #5? Both involved Thailog, the Clones, and Sevarius - and both had Sevarius obtaining the DNA of Goliath's clan for his experiments.
I honestly don't remember. Sorry.
Originally I promised I wasn't going to review 3 - 5 until I saw them as a group, and go figure when I finished this was RIGHT when the queue closed. So here it is, though with added time of reflection.
REVIEW OF GARGOYLES ISSUES 3 - 5
by Shannon Muir
As I've stated previously, I didn't want to comment on the comics until I could see the whole story in one piece, which to me feels like I'm reading a half hour episode adapted to three comics with one comic per act. I'm largely going to talk about the story as I think it unfair to review three different artists artwork indepth in one piece. However, broadly speaking I liked issue #5 the best artwise and issue #4 the least (mainly because I couldn't follow the fight scenes in that style which in turn impacted my ability to follow story, though the style itself was interesting).
Now, here's a breakdown of each story arc and my observations --
THE ILLUMINATI: It's nice to finally get a sense of the Illuminati structure as more than just this nebulous organization represented by just a couple people in the show. Castaway, Bluestone, Xanatos, and Thailog all at lowest run almost implies some sort of "race to the top". Both Quincy and Shari I find extremely interesting, and Thailog being a member was a turn I didn't expect. Also that Shari's symbol isn't the ring like all the men wear. (What jewelry does Thailog have I wonder, though I know you can't/won't answer). There's enough here I'm interested in what is going on in their infrastructure. Thailog's goals are, however, at this point a little bit predictable. What is more of interest is the consequences of the pursuit of said goals with Sevarius.
ELISA AND GOLIATH: I have to be honest, this was the arc that I liked the least. To me, the question of Elisa's family plans opened on the castle rampart is a "tentpole" question that should launch a much larger arc and not be thrown away in the equivalent of a half-hour episode. The fact Elisa flirted with Jason, and did take Morgan on the date, cannot be erased in one night no matter how life-threatening. Couples have conflicts but they also need to work through them, and issues of this magnitude take time. I hear rumors later issues will continue with this theme, but even what I've seen here seems just too fast. I know comics by nature need to be time compressed to some extent, but still.
I for one hope that though Elisa's re-recognized her feelings for Goliath in the heat of a pressure moment, the struggles don't end here. Those are some powerful words Elisa told Goliath back at the castle in Issue 3 about the life she wanted, and I truly feel some more examination of this is required instead of a simple daytime soap opera-esque "we'll find a way to work it out" and let it rest until it resolves itself. It has always been one of GARGOYLES' hallmarks to deal with tough issues head on and give them the treatment they deserve - whether it is single epsiodes with undertones of social issues like DEADLY FORCE or LIGHTHOUSE or the complicated psychcological examination of Demona and Macbeth of CITY OF STONE. That, to me, is what makes GARGOYLES... well, GARGOYLES.
As is, it feels like this was "rushed through" to take Elisa and Goliath to some sort of "next level" in their relationship in order to move along other plot elements. I strongly hope this isn't the case.
BROOKLYN, BROADWAY AND ANGELA: Poor Brooklyn just feels alientated by everyone. This was done in plausible contexts that made sense. I know what it is ultimately to lead to (in the most general of senses, as we've been told before), but the question is how long will things go until we get there? I hope they don't drag out but go at a natural pace. As to Broadway and Angela, I think they are handled very subtly in the background, their relationship is reconfirmed as a contrast longside Brooklyn's alienation.
LEXINGTON: Not too much to say here as Lexington is Lexington. However, what is key is his confrontation with his clone, it reveals a lot about his character as he confronts his "dark side" when the clone chooses Thailog over siding with Delilah.
THE CLONES, THE MUTATES, AND THE POWER OF FREE WILL: Maggie standing up and Delilah taking charge were both turns I applauded and worked well, Delilah's especially though I would have liked to have overseen her hearing the conversation where Goliath mentions her. Though, where did Thailog learn about Norma Rae? It took a minute to remember where she overheard Goliath's comment. This was my second favorite arc to Hudson and Robbins (see below). However, we still don't know what happened to Maggie or to Claw. We see Shari at the end of Issue 5 talking to Thailog, and supposedly she took Claw with her when she left the Labrinyth in Issue 4. Where is he? Did I miss something? (I hope so.)
HUDSON AND ROBBINS: The smallest subplot in the arc but it accomplishes volumes in just a few pages. It got a major revelation out of the way - that Robbins has suspected Hudson's identity for some time - but it didn't feel rushed or forced. It felt like every step was completely appropriate and the handshake at the end before Hudson left was the perfect cap. A total contrast to the Elisa and Goliath arc. Even Gilly and Bronx resting together was a nice touch.
BRENDAN AND MARGOT: Margot was predictable but funny, yet the interesting part here is getting a better sense of Brendan. Timing makes it clear he got Dr. Sato to help Goliath, but did he realize Goliath was what he was or does he think Goliath was just a man in a really good costume? Again, you can't answer that one but I'm letting you know the answer interests me.
DEMONA: I know she's a setup for later, but she seems out of place in these three issues if taken together as one story. Not much to say as there's not much of her around. I am left wondering if that page might have been able to be done some other way or at some other point to have better been utilized for this story.
CAMEOS AT THE PARTY: Fun if you remember the show enough. I recognized some and had to research others. I flat out did not recognize the Judge and guessed who he was simply because I had to think of what episode used a Judge. Seems too off model to me, even compensating for the costume.
OVERALL: Would I keep reading at this point? There's enough to keep me interested, but how Elisa and Goliath play out may be a real sticking point. We'll see.
ADDENDUM REGARDING ISSUE #6:I don't have Issue 6 yet (got stuck too late at work to go out the day it came out), and to be honest after hearing about the technical art gaffe I may just hold out for the trade in hope it gets corrected there and I can follow the story properly, especially since it is a stand-alone. I haven't decided. If I do get it and the queue doesn't close, I'll consider a review.
Well, I don't agree with all your comments, but of course you're entitled to your opinions. A couple things I do take issue with:
I don't see Elisa as having flirted with Jason at all. She is trying to comfort him as a friend, and although I like to leave interpretations up to individual readers, I don't even see where that interpretation comes from. Frankly, I don't think she flirted with Morgan either.
I also don't have any idea why you think Shari took Claw with her.
It was nice seeing you at ComicCon, Greg! So as you know, I got issues #4&5 there, and I was happily pleased by the story. Even though I had read spoilers, it was still exciting to be "seeing" a new episode. You certainly didn't hold back on the surprises, with Brentwood's defection, Brendan's sense, Thailog and Sevarius's new scheme, and the rankings of the Illuminati. I actually got a kick out of seeing the audience's reactions to these revelations on YouTube, and I totally would have joined them in a long round of applause for such a great episode.
The only thing that saddens me about the comic is that you will be less forthcoming with revelations on Ask Greg, and that we now have to wait 2 months at a time for new material on the main series (I expect Bad Guys will have its own revelations, but mostly about its own cast). I suppose you will still be posting interesting timeline entries until you catch up to the full year, but those are often too obscure to make much sense out of ("Lexington takes a chance and loses"). I know that having the published comic is a better deal than having revelations on this forum that are nothing but unrealized possibilities, or "canon-in-training", but I will miss the excitement I used to have when visiting here, looking for new tidbits of information that once would have had the CR buzzing for weeks. Anyways, don't mind my rambling--I'm just being greedy and somewhat nostalgic. I'm looking forward to the upcoming Tibetan flashback, and the Bad Guys premiere! Hopefully the comics will stay on schedule.
Thanks, Vash. And thanks, as always for working on the great animatic for "The Last". That got big applause to, and I'm sorry you didn't get to hear it.
As for revelations here... well, you're right. I'm way less inclined with the comics. But I do still manage to give away a few tidbits at the Gathering.
This isn't a question, but a comment. One thing that I liked in the two most recent issues of the "Gargoyles" comic book, and in "Eye of the Beholder", was that, when Goliath attends the Halloween parties in those stories, while the other gargoyles present, and Elisa, are wearing costumes at the events, he wasn't (or, rather, he was letting his "gargoyleness" be his costume). I thought that that was particularly appropriate, since while the younger gargoyles wearing costumes worked for me and fitted their characterizations, I think that it would have jarred to have Goliath "dress up" at those events. He has a certain natural dignity and majesty about himself that would have (in my opinion) been compromised had he worn a costume as well. Thanks (to both you and the artists) for leaving him as he was at those events.
I agree completely.
Written before release of Issue 5
ISSUE 4 - MASQUE
Once again, Greg, you have completely failed to disappoint.
Last issue, when Hudson said that he had a "previous engagement," I had a feeling that he was going to be spending Hallowe'en with Jeffrey. (Hey, it was either that or spend the party night watching Celebrity Hockey, eh?)
I'm assuming that Margot had intended for herself and Brendan to have a "couple's costume". If Brendan was supposed to be Valentino, who was Margot dressed as?
And the Clan is continuing the costume themes: the Trio (now plus Angela) with their "costume over a costume" as someone put it in "Eye" (was it Vinnie?), and Elisa with her Disney Princess motif. I think she makes a good Jas.
I like Angela's reaction to Elisa with a date. She's a "daddy's girl" through and through.
Nice little continuation from the previous issue with Thailog. A follow-up on his "Trick or treat?" line at the start of the "commercial break." Also, his preparation for the assault is another prime example of his Xanatos-like mindset - prepare for anything. And of course, with Thailog alive, it only makes sense that he'd try to reclaim the Clones.
How did Judge Roebling mistake Delilah for Demona? The coloring's all wrong, and when last he saw, she and Goliath were clearly not on pleasant terms.
Poor "G"…heart breaking… and poor Brooklyn, still ever-so-smitten.
You've commented that Alex X. looks old for his age. Am I correct in guessing that this has to do with his heritage - specifically his maternal grandmother?
I notice that, in contrast with his meeting with Agent Hacker, David looks not at all pleased to speak with mister "Two."
So, the Clones are not quite free of Thailog's programming. Makes sense, as it's been three months at the most since they were "liberated" from him.
I hope we finally get to find out what our mysterious goth girl's name is next ish (she looks like an Alex to me, but with Baby X, that might get confusing).
I kind of feel sorry for Morgan. Elisa built up his hopes on this date, and now it looks like he's being let down again.
Yay for more troubles in the G&E romance dept. I feel bad for them, but it makes for good story writing. Speaking of good writing, I hope that things don't end up all better at the end of the "episode," that would seem a little too sitcom-like to me.
"…your penchant for drama always exceeds expectations, Father." Thailog always seems to know how to push Goliath's buttons, doesn't he?
And let's hear a "Good boy, Owen!" He wouldn't be the major-domo he is, if he didn't try to keep the party going well.
And Owen raises a good point: if Delilah is to have free will, she needs the opportunity to make the decision for herself - even if the decision she makes is the "wrong" one.
OOOHH! Cliffhanger! Great place for the commercial break. Can't wait to see what happens in the final act. Will Goliath survive?!
Well, of course he will, as our leading man. But still…
And I leave you with this thought: You said that, in the comics, three issues is the equivalent of one TV episode. If you were to clump issues 3-5 together into an episode, what title would you use?
Either "Masque" or "Bash", but I'm trying not to slip into t.v. habits. We're in a new medium now.
Margot was a flapper of your choice.
Roebling doesn't really think in terms of their being a lot of gargoyles. He saw a female, he thought of the female he knew of. They all look alike to him. Particularly when he's a touch sloshed.
Belatedly, a few things about Gargoyles #4: Masque. I actually liked the artistry in this one, a nice change from the previous ones. Too bad Nir Paniry's name was left out. I guess what annoys me about David Hedgecock's style is that the eyebrows are too high on the face, they look about an inch above the eyes themselves. I guess that's his style, but it still bothers me a bit. David also tends to put too many lines on characters faces, sometimes making them look older than they really are. Nir Paniry doesn't do that, though in his case he tends to make things (particularly hair) a bit too shiny, and likes to draw veins popping out of some of the more buff characters. So I guess I liked Nir's style more. Wouldn't mind seeing more of his work in some of the later comics.
A couple of questions:
1) Is that Dominic Dracon towards the bottom left of page 5 with the blue-green mask on his head, or just a very good look alike? If it is DD, what's he doing out of jail?
2) Xanatos' reply to "thirty-six" this time was "two", not "thirty-two", was that a typo? If it isn't, I presume we'll find out soon enough the reason for the difference?
Thanks for your time.
1. It's not.
2. There's no typo. You misread it. Xanatos said Thirty-six. THe response TO him was "Two", which is NOT a mistake. It'll be explained in issue #5.
Thanks to Patrick Toman, the Gathering 2007 Radio Play has been uploaded to YouTube. Because YouTube has a new rule that permits videos to be no more than 10 minutes long, Patrick had to split the 42 minutes of footage into five segments in order to also include titles and credits. Here are the links:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j63pDlPaKnQ
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRkv56AC-F4
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s58H_Tdi09E
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6PUx6GsdFA
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wkurc-TW99o
My review on comic #4. To put it simply, it was really great, and I am really looking forward to #5.
I wonder why Robbins thought it was weird that Hudson said he was wearing a mask. He could of very well been, I mean Robbins can't really tell if he is or not. I really wonder if Robbins has any idea who, or really what Hudson really is…
I never even gave Lexington's cyborg costume a second thought, and I read that so many fans thought of the Future Tense Lexington by that costume. I just thought Lex looked kind of cute in that panel.
Hehe, Elisa as Jasmine. She makes a pretty nice Jasmine… I do wonder if there was more thought into her costume then we realize. (Since Jasmine was the princess that really didn't want to be a princess anymore, the princess who wanted a normal life)
Poor Brooklyn… I feel so sorry for him… If I was a female gargoyle, I wouldn't miss my chance to be with him! =P He's my favorite character and I think he's attractive, hehe. I can't wait to see what his costume will be.
And poor Maggie, I hope she will be ok! There is so much to look forward in #5. And I worry about Goliath… I just can't wait for #5!
I hope you always post here in the latest response of "Ask Greg" when the new comic comes out. (The date) I believe you have for all the comics except #2. But it would help me out a lot since I depend on this site to let me know when the next comic is available. Also you seem kind of sad that no one really writes in for the "Etched in Stone" section, but I think it's because people are so used to writing in here to "Ask Greg" plus it's just easier to write online then send a letter through the mail. I don't think it's much of a problem if you can just use some of the comments posted here on "Ask Greg." (Like you have before)
I've decided -- belatedly -- that ASK GREG is the place to write to in order to be included in Etched in Stone. And as soon as I have an exact date for #5, I will announce it here.
Just finished reading #4 for the third time. Let's see I liked the scene at the beginning. I always liked Jeffrey Robbins and would like to see more of him. The costume party was cool. I guess Margot's a fan of old movies if she wanted Brendan to dress as Rudolf Valentino. I like the irony of her complimenting the gargoyles without realizing they were gargoyles. This was also the first I think we've ever seen her complimenting anything. You'd think that she would have recognize the gargoyles though considering all the times she has encounter them. I did not at first remember who Judge Roebling was at first since he was only in Vows.
So at the Labrynthe Thailog thrashes the Mutates. I have to wonder does Thailog have some plan for the Clones or is he just "collecting his property" as he put it?
I'd say that's quite shocker at the end. I'm not sure you could have done that in the cartoon, but like you said in an earlier post it would be how you do it. I think a slightly elevated level of violence might lend the comic a bit more gravitas than the cartoon. Though I don't want it turning into a Garth Ennis comic or anything.
The sensibility is still my own, and I'm not big on the ultra-violence, personally.
Still reserving anything overall commentwise until issue 5 comes out, but there's a question I keep coming back to and that is Elisa's costume choice as Jasmine, considering she was planning on going with Goliath initially.
Thematically, I'm sure there's some symbolism tied into that choice and I love the thoughts several have shared here.
But part of me wonders why not Esmeralda from NOTRE DAME as that was the Disney movie of Summer 1996? Or did she boycott it due to the comic portrayal of gargoyles?
I know that's probably setup to a smartass answer but I'm ok with that.
Too much pressure to come up with a funny smartass response.
I just think that Elisa probably had the Jasmine costume in mind for some time... Also, she spent most of the summer traveling the world, so she may have missed that movie.
I know that you're not that fond of questions involving "The Goliath Chronicles", but this is something that I thought I should mention here anyway.
One of the episodes of "The Goliath Chronicles" (it was the one involving Taurus and Proteus in New York) has gained particular notoriety among "Gargoyles" fans because the animators somehow made Elisa resemble Jasmine from "Aladdin". As a result, I found it amusing when, in #4 of the new comic, you had Elisa going to the masquerade party as Jasmine.
Given your past comments on the Goliath Chronicles and how you don't even remember them that clearly, I doubt that you deliberately intended that as an in-joke; also, it makes sense that Elisa would choose that costume because in the previous Halloween party in "Gargoyles", she'd gone as another Disney heroine (Belle from "Beauty and the Beast"). But I still thought that I should mention the additional level of meaning that I'd gotten out of her costume choice to you.
All things are true.
Hey! Here's the second half of my ramble on the 4th comic book.
Part Four: Masque
Part 2 Pages 13-24
Page 13: Okay, this is where I got mixed up and didn't think that Terry was Ambassador Chung's son, because when I saw her name I immediately thought of the detective Tri Chung from the previous comic book. More on that on the next page. I like how we get a big shot of the party in D.C. like we got on page 5 of Xanatos's party back at the castle. It looks a lot alike except that most of the people in this scene look old (except for Xanatos and his family) and like they're not having much fun. But it does look a lot like the other scene. It might just be me thinking that though. I like how Alex's age is brought up and how he looks older than he really is. He's also saying stuff now like "Doggie". Interesting… (not the word "Doggie", but that he can actually say the word).
Page 14: Back to the whole Chung thing. When Ambassador Chung is talking about Terry, I'm thinking of Tri, partly because I had forgotten Tri's name and the way she talks about her son, it seems like he'd be a lot older than the Terry off the first page. That's just the impression I got. And when she was talking about him trick-or-treating, I thought that maybe Tri (thinking he was Terry) had a kid or knew a kid and was taking him around. I never thought of him being the Terry at the beginning of the comic. I can't remember when I finally put it together… I think I looked up Tri's name in the 3rd comic book and realized that his name was not Terry, and then I read some reviews her at ASK GREG saying that Terry at the beginning of the comic was the Ambassador's son. I was a slow learner on that one… but I got it eventually. The rest of the page is about Illuminate stuff. A lot of people seem mystified over the Illuminate and keep wondering about what the number system means. I haven't been so big on that. I figured it was a ranking thing the first time I read it and haven't thought much of it since. Sure, I'm somewhat curious as to why the Illuminate want to meet Xanatos in D.C., but it's not really up there with some of the other story elements that are at work in the plot. At least for me anyway.
Page 15: Poor claw. That looks like it hurt. He had to know that Thailog couldn't be stopped so easily. The whole free will thing… not happening right now with the clones.
Page 16: Maybe there is some hope for the free will thing… until Maggie gets buried in rubble. Wow, Thailog was really going to shoot Maggie. There's this whole idea that he's not a wasteful guy… I guess he really has no future plans for Maggie the Cat. I had to actually look up the movie title online for Norma Rae to get what he was referencing to on this page. I read what the movie was about, so now I get it. I think.
Page 17: People say it looks bad for Maggie here, but I've seen the gargoyles get buried in about this much rubble before and survive it. Then I thought about how Maggie isn't as strong as them and is a bit on the weaker and smaller side. And she can't heal at dawn. I guess those things don't go in her favor. The whole thing about Thailog finding out about Delilah and Goliath made me laugh… but probably not maniacally. When I read this, my mind went right back to Double Jeopardy with Hudson asking Goliath, "Do you even know how to laugh maniacally?" Goliath might not (well… he was laughing kinda creepy in Enter Macbeth), but Thailog sure can. And Thailog's surprised look that Delilah and Goliath went out together is priceless. I'm glad that Claw didn't have to fight Thailog and the entire clone clan by himself. That couldn't have turned out good. It's funny… Thailog doesn't waste him…
Page 18: There's Al!!! I wondered where he'd slipped off to. Wow… Maggie looks like a zombie. And here we see Talon's weakness. He won't leave Maggie to help Goliath. If anyone wanted to take over down there, all they need to do is capture Maggie. Thailog made a bad choice in trying to get rid of her, because if she dies and he ever wants anything from the Labyrinth clan, he can't just kidnap her and demand stuff. He'll have to figure something else out. And here comes the mystery girl up to bat. She's going to the castle? She'll have a heck of a time trying to get there before Thailog does. And she doesn't have a costume… will they let her in without a costume? Now we get more of Elisa and Morgan. I feel bad for Morgan. He knows he's just the rebound guy. I wonder how this will affect their relationship at work once this is all over and done with.
Page 19: By the way… I love Morgan's outfit. I can't really explain why, I just do. It suits him. He's dressed up as a detective, which he's being for the night, trying to figure out just what is going on between everyone… especially between "G" and Elisa. I really don't like how Goliath "commands" Delilah to stay where she is. It makes me feel like he doesn't think of her much except as a clone that needs directing when she's supposed to have her own free will. I like how Morgan asks her if she's having fun yet. Neither of them looks like they're having any fun. Here's an idea… how about they ditch the broken up love birds and get together for the rest of the party. It beats being used. And now we have Goliath trying to confront Elisa… I wonder how this'll turn out… though I have an idea (since I've read the whole thing already).
Page 20: Some more sharing of feelings between the broken up couple and then a run away by Elisa. I do like that she acknowledges that it was not only a mistake, but that is was her mistake to have the double date. At least she takes responsibility… in a sense. But then I think more on it and realize that she shouldn't have to feel bad for the mistake. She just wanted a shot at a normal life, and even though it blew up in her face, she still took that chance and I have to admire her for that. Now we have Thailog's voice in the background to really make the evening brighter. It's bad enough Goliath is going through all this without his "evil twin" getting in the way and making fun of the situation.
Page 21: I like the two scenes next to each other of Goliath and Thailog. We have the angry Goliath and then the smiling Thailog. Goliath should try smiling at his enemies. It could freak them out. Then he could start laughing manically at them… maybe not. I like how Owen walks up calmly and professionally. That's Owen for you. Oh, and Thailog's entrance looks great. I love how he lands in this scene.
Page 22: And there's the army. I wonder which one is Bruno. I love Owen's reasoning and his bit about having to rebuild the castle over and over again after all the fights that take place there. I can hear his voice in my head perfectly when he says these lines. Now, Goliath looks really perturbed over Owen's choice to release Delilah. Is it really about Delilah's free choice or is it actually just about beating Thailog?
Page 23: Now why is it that Brentwood is the only one in the background here and the only one who said anything about free will earlier in the Labyrinth? Perhaps he has a bigger role to play in the next comic book. And what is with Owen's line "I'll leave you to your own devices". It sounds like he knows Thailog is about to do what he is about to do. I really like the split face of Goliath (who still looks angry) and Thailog (who is still smiling).
Page 24: WOW! Goliath stabbed! You'd think he'd have thought something was up when Thailog was saying he wanted to try something he'd been wondering about and then a knife pops out of his wrist thing. Maybe he didn't have enough time to act, but still… If Thailog was telling me (while smiling scarily) that he was wondering what would happen if he tried something, I'd be running… though I'm sure that wouldn't help much. And Goliath does look comical in the scene where he's being stabbed. He's also WAY too muscular. It looks like he took some of that stuff that Bane uses in Batman. I do think that Elisa, after seeing Goliath in this state, will rethink everything she's been thinking about their relationship. At least, I'd hope so.
So there it is. I finally finished the 4th comic book ramble. I knew I'd get it in sooner or later. I can't wait to find out what happens in the next comic book. I'm also very impatient for the 7th comic book from what I've heard of it. It sounds very interesting. And of course I can't forget that BAD GUYS is coming out. YEAH!!!
Thank you for your time and all that you do.
You're very welcome. Glad you're enjoying the stuff. I know I am.
Hey! I'm really glad to have the new comic book, but I have to say that I really hate having to order the comic book online because it takes forever to get it compared to going to a comic book store and buying it, but there are no comic book stores near where I live. What makes it really bad is that I love coming here to read all the new answers you give each day to fans about their questions, but when the comic book comes out, everything is a review on the comic book, so I can't read any of them until I get the comic book. But that doesn't matter now, 'cause I have the comic book. YES!!! Here is the first half of my ramble on the Gargoyles #4 comic book, even though it is late (I didn't get it done in time to post because ASK GREG filled up with questions & reviews so fast and was closed down when I finished my review).
Part Four: Masque
Part 1 Pages 1-12
Page 1: The first thing I noticed is that the drawings were different in this comic compared to those of the past. It looks more like the show WITCH and how it was drawn. I'm not complaining at all though. Lots of people have ideas on who draws better than others in comic books, but I'm more about the story myself. As long as the comics aren't done in stick figures, I'll be okay with it. I had forgotten that Terry Chung was the guy in the spin off New Olympians and didn't put the connection together until I read someone else's review online. I also didn't get that this was Ambassador Chung's son that shows up later in the comic, but I'll get to why I didn't think of that later. I laughed when I noticed that the kids were dressed like Hyena & Jackal. I love their fake claws. Billy seems pretty bratty to me, so I can figure he got his way when he wanted to dress like a criminal. His mom: (After being at a Quarrymen meeting) "Honey, wouldn't you rather go as something else?" Billy: "I WANT TO BE JACKAL!" "But he's a felon, sweetheart…" (Crying) "I DON'T CARE!!!"… Anyways, that's how I see it.
Page 2: By the way, how does Terry's mother know Billy & Suzie's mother? Not through the Quarrymen I hope… Billy roles his eyes at a disciplining mom. Then she sees the Quarrymen. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I were her, taking a kid around in a gargoyle costume. At least the Quarrymen are doing as Castaway asked them. They seem to be making a presence on the street known. Hopefully they don't have hammers that we can't see in the shot we get of them. Nothing more on this page except for kids bickering.
Page 3: "Nice mask…" HA! I love it. That's your line (but you already know that). And here is Hudson, towering over the kids. I love how you can still get the feeling that he is talking in his accent with his "ye" stuff. I also like how the kids are stunned and speechless for the moment at seeing him. Terry even takes off his mask to get a better look at this "costume".
Page 4: IT'S JEFFREY!!! I knew this is where Hudson was going, and I'm so glad to see him again, as he's one of my favorite characters from the Gargoyle's universe. I love the shot with the two "dogs" (so to speak). I don't know if it is just me, but Jeffrey looks a bit upset in his first shot. That' s unusual. He's always wise, thoughtful, happy, content… these are just a few things I think of when I think of the guy. I like Hudson's line "We all wear masks." He avoids the question. I, personally, think that Jeffrey knows about Hudson. I think he had to get up some courage to ask Hudson about the mask thing, knowing the truth, but not wanting to come out with "You're a gargoyle." I think Jeffrey would rather have Hudson tell him the truth than admit he knows what Hudson is. That's my thoughts on it.
Page 5: It's a party! What else is there to say? Margot is being her usual self. You can already guess whom she is yelling at without looking at the next page.
Page 6: The costumes! I love Angela's costume. It fits her perfectly. I know the whole meaning behind it, but even without the meaning, it still fits her personality. Lex's costume is great, too. It's just too bad that we didn't get to see Goliath's reaction to it. I don't care too much for Broadway's costume. I liked him better in the detective coat in Eye of the Beholder.
Page 7: Morgan looks happy while Elisa looks uncomfortable. I can only imagine why… I really like Elisa as Jasmine. The first time I saw it, I had a whole theory of why she dressed that way, and then I read a post where you wrote that she'd already picked out her costume before hand when she and Goliath were going to go to the party together. I don't know what the reasoning would be behind her dressing as Jasmine when with Goliath besides her loving the costume, so I'm going to write my theory on why she'd dress that way going with Morgan. (*NOTE* My sister was just in the Aladdin play, so it helped me out a bit with this since I haven't seen the movie in a while). In the movie, Jasmine's whole thing is feeling trapped. She doesn't get to make her own decisions on what she wants to do. She is being forced to find someone to marry when she truly doesn't want to be with the choices she's given. When she escapes her "prison" and goes out onto the streets, she finds Aladdin, but then circumstances lead to them being separated and she is put back in her old situation of having to find someone to marry. This seems a lot like Elisa to me. She found her "Aladdin", but, due to circumstances, she is back to being trapped because of wanting a normal life. I kind of see Jason from the 3rd comic book being like Jasmine's father in telling her she needs to find someone worthy to be with. I see Morgan as one of the "suitors" coming to call on her. The main thing I see is Elisa (forcing herself) to be in a trapped situation as Jasmine was also trapped. She has to find a partner who she really doesn't want to be with, like Jasmine, even though she's found her "Aladdin". There are other comparisons that come to mind between the two, but I feel I've gotten the main point across here. Then again, I could be totally off. Because, as you said, she'd picked the costume when she was still with Goliath… even so, I like the Jasmine and Elisa comparison. I also have to mention Angela's upsetting tone on this page. Does she not know that her father is bring a date too?
Page 8: THAILOG!!! Okay, that's out of my system. Poor Al. And the girl is in the middle of Thailog and Talon. Not a great place to be at this time. I love the lines exchanged between Talon and herself. "Move, girl!" "Moving!"
Page 9: It's so like Thailog to come prepared. He's thought it all through… at least so far. We still don't know how his plan will work out in the next issue. I like that Claw tackled Thailog and actually pinned him down. It's also cool that Thailog continues on his conversation after this happens and during his whole battle like the fighting isn't a big deal for him. I also like how Thailog called Maggie "Miss Cat." It sounds funny.
Page 10: Back to the party. And now entering is Goliath with Delilah. Judge Roebling didn't look like the guy I remember off the show, so that threw me a bit. I had to think back to who he was, and finally remembered after a while of contemplating. Also, is there any significance in the name he chose, "Sir Ian of Oxford"? I don't know if that refers to someone who actually existed or not, but I was just wondering. I find Roebling's part humorous when Delilah explains all the genetics stuff about Demona and Elisa. If it had been any other guest, they'd have though Delilah was on something.
Page 11: Delilah meet Elisa. Elisa, Delilah. Morgan meet Delilah. Delilah, Morgan. Morgan meet… "G". If I were Morgan, I'd think "G" was a weird name for someone. Then I'd think that maybe it was a nickname. Still, it's a weird nickname. But that's not nearly as weird as meeting your gargoyle clone. Poor Elisa. That had to give her a shock. I also noticed more so in the comics than in the show how Delilah looks a lot like Elisa when Elisa was a gargoyle. Interesting. I love the scene with all four of them standing alone with no one around. It's great. I also like the fact that all four characters, if done in a show, would only need the two voice actors Keith and Salli. I'd have really liked to see that, as I'm sure a lot of Gargoyle fans would have.
Page 12: And here's poor Brooklyn. With his wings draped over his shoulders! YES!!! That's how it's supposed to look. I hated how the other comics had his wings under his arms. It wasn't right. I'm glad it's back to normal now. Broadway and Lex look like dogs in this scene. It's not very appealing on them. Angela still looks as cute in her costume as ever. It's too bad she's giving Brooklyn the wrong ideas here, even though it's not intentional. I can't wait to see Brooklyn's costume.
So there you have it. The first half of the comic book analyzed by yours truly. I'll start on the second half as soon as possible.
Thank you for your time and all that you do.
Glad you liked it so far. Hope the second half holds up for you.
A little later than everyone else's, but here are my thoughts on Issue #4 (mostly they're a reprint of my stuff from the Comment Room, with a few changes and other thoughts).
This is definitely the middle act. No beginnings or resolutions, just action and advancement all the way.
--Billy and Susan (dressed as Jackal and Hyena, of ALL people!) are trick-or-treating with a boy named Terry (who has an Asian cast to his features--this, coupled with a comment from Ambassador Chung(!) later in the comic leads me to wonder if we may not see "The New Olympians" for a while...either that, or you're REALLY yanking our chains, Greg). Sarah is there, along with a couple of silent Quarrymen on patrol. And who should answer their knock at the door but...Hudson ("Nice mask" indeed). And yes, we were right, he IS spending the evening with his friend Jeffrey Robbins, who is surprised to hear that the kids thought Hudson was wearing a mask.... Hudson just ducks the question with a "We all wear masks" line. I wonder if Jeffery will figure things out within the next few issues.
--We FINALLY learn Brendan's last name!
--It's fun to see anti-gargoyle Margot chatting with the clan. And nice costumes for Angela (Dorothy), Broadway (Lion) and Lexington (Post-modern Tin Man--er, cyborg...a very "Future Tense"-like cyborg!). I do wonder how Angela managed to pull off that hair-do, though--it just looks like her hair is so much shorter than it usually is!
--Morgan and Elisa show up. Morgan as Sherlock Holmes, and Elisa...well, "last" Halloween Elisa was dressed as Belle, from "Beauty and the Beast" and this year she's dressed as Jasmine.... I'll say one thing for her: she knows what she looks GOOD in!
Actually, I have to admit, when I first saw her in costume, my mind threw itself back to that one TGC episode with the animation by Diz-Oz in which Elisa really did look like Jasmine (at least as she was usually animated in the TV series). I know you only watched that episode ONCE, Greg, so I don't think it had much of an influence on you, but still...it made my eyes go wide.
Angela is none too happy about Elisa being on a date (and she refers to Goliath as "Father" here--I only notice that because she usually calls him by name).
--Cut to the Labyrinth where all hell is breaking loose. Apparantly, Thailog's blasters are able to absorb the Mutate's electric discharges and redirect them right back again. And yes, he is there to reclaim his "property".
--Judge Roebling returns! I wondered when we'd see him again. A bit of an awkward moment when he thinks Delilah is Demona. Poor bastard had the right idea of getting out of there. Especially when Morgan and Elisa show up...and Elisa truly meets Delilah for the first time. Nice panel of the four of them all alone in a little pool of light.
By the way, did I detect a "Monty Python" vibe from Roebling's "Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more"?
--Of course, my favorite garg, Brooklyn isn't wearing a costume at the moment...he's too depressed, apparantly. And yet, a smile and a few words from Angela provide all the motivation he needs to hurry off to change.
Before Angela starts talking to him, Brooklyn seems to be watching Goliath and Delilah. Is he mentally replacing Goliath with himself on Delilah's arm? Just a thought I had.
--We're off to the White House where not just Xanatos, but Fox and Alex as well, are attending another party (love Fox's little "tattoo-mask"!). And who should they meet there but Ambassador Chung(!), who notes that Alex seems pretty big for his age. While dinner is served, Xanatos moves off to meet with one of the serving staff. We have a sort of repeat of the "Number Greeting"--Xanatos greets with 36, as usual and the server responds with...2. Uh-oh.
--Hell is continuing to break loose at the Labyrinth, with the clones obeying Thailog's command. Maggie tries to give them an inspirational about free will, and Thailog prepares to shoot her. So Talon attacks Thailog...and the shot goes wild causing part of the wall to collapse on Maggie. I really am concerned for Maggie here--she looks pretty bad off, and I don't know if they have any medical help down there in the Labyrinth.
Anyway, with her injured, Talon occupied trying to help her, and Claw restrained by the clones, Thailog finally notices he's missing someone. Malibu tells him about Goliath and Delilah, and Thailog has his first good maniacal laugh in weeks before heading off with the clones to crash the party. Al suggests sending someone to warn Goliath, and who volunteers but...the new kid. Hmmm.
--I love Morgan here. He's a very perceptive guy. He figures out that "G" is Elisa's ex...the one she broke up with that day...the reason he's getting his shot..."Assuming I AM getting my shot...?" Like I said, perceptive. And I just love his "So, we having fun yet?" to Delilah when both their respective dates head off for another heart-to-heart.
Some have called Morgan a bit thick for bringing up what is obviously a sore spot for Elisa, but I actually don't see it that way. I mean, here's Morgan finally on a date with a woman he's interested in (and she's HOT), but I think he knows he's something of a "rebound relationship"--which is never a fun thing to be--and I think he's trying to let Elisa know that he knows that. Or at least let Elisa know that that's what she's doing.
--We have another Goliath/Elisa discussion where Elisa admits that seeing Goliath with Delilah hurt, and that "tonight was a mistake." More specifically, HER mistake. But that it still doesn't change anything. I get the feeling Elisa is pretty much swinging back and forth between denials at this stage.
Well, she runs off...which is when Thailog shows up complimenting Goliath on the show.
--Thailog (who refers to Golaith as "Father" as well) has brought the rest of the clones, and his two guns. Of course, only the guns displease Owen, who has called out the (obviously re-staffed) Xanatos Goon Squad. Owen has a great line here about having "transcended any pleasure received from supervising the endless reconstruction of this castle." A nice nod to how often the Eyrie got trashed in the series. However, Owen is no saint, offering to call off security and send up Delilah in exchange for disarmament. This, naturally, outrages Goliath, but Owen points out that he's not trading Delilah...she will still have a choice (that whole "free will" thing again.)
--While they wait (and there's a great half-n-half shot of Goliath and Thailog's faces) Thailog decides to satisfy some curiosity...what would happen if he popped a blade from his wristguard and stabbed Goliath in the abdomen! :-o
And that's where the comic ends...for TWO MONTHS (at least). Man, I really HATE bi-monthly schedules.
--Well, now that the summary is done, I must say the art was a little...uneven for me here. For the most part I thought it was good (I like the gang in their costumes...especially Elisa and Angela). However, I did think the faces of the kids at the beginning were a little too cutsey for me. And Broadway's (and even Lexington's!) salivating over food (complete with tongues hanging out) on page 12 seemed a little overboard. And I'm not too sure about Goliath's expression in the last panel of the last page (but then again, what look WOULD a person being stabbed have on their face, anyway?). Overall, though, it's pretty nice. Thailog looks great!
I did notice the wrong name was on the credits page, and that the title was missing. That is unfortunate, but it will be corrected in the trade paperback I'm sure (yes, I am being very optimistic).
--Other notes: I STILL want to see Talon's full reaction to the clan being back with Xanatos. Also, I feel sorry for Morgan and Delilah since this evening will probably end with their respective dates essentially dumping them.
Oh, I LOVED that you guys managed to keep the art continuity of Thailog wearing the domino mask!
I'm going practically crazy wondering what Brooklyn's costume will be. I don't THINK it's going to be the Scarecrow, but I won't know until July.
It may be just me, but it seems that a lot of this story seems centered on the theme of "relationships"--specifically, in the romantic sense. I mean, right off the bat, we have Goliath and Elisa's relationship, which of course branches off into the relationships (or lack thereof) between Elisa and Morgan (and Elisa and Jason, even) and Goliath and Delilah, which further extrapolates into the relationship between Delilah and Thailog. As for happy, healthy couples, we started issue #3 with the Xanatos Family, and we see a lot of Broadway and Angela, as well as Talon and Maggie. And all throughout the background of this we have Brooklyn in his SEARCH for a relationship.
Impatient for the next issue!
I'm not above yanking your chains, but Terry is Terry Chung.
Thailog's back - and by the looks of things he's been taking steroids! Wide eyed cutesy trick or treaters, gargoyles with bags of muscle and comical facial expressions when getting knifed aside, Paniry's artwork on this issue is actually quite interesting. Just as I was starting to get used to Hedgecock's work on the comic, we get treated to this new artist's take on the Gargoyles Universe; and whilst the inking might be quite too thick and unsightly for some people, and some of the characters are hard to recognise, personally I quite like Paniry's art in 'Masque'. Surprisingly I was starting to miss David Hedgecock when I first read through this issue; but there are some really good moments - the half Goliath/half Thailog facial on page 23, the moments when Elisa meets Delilah (esp the panel when the double daters are all alone), Talon running to Maggie after she gets buried alive. On the whole the artwork's looking different but still as always looking good.
Enough of the aesthetics - if the story is lacking, there's no point in having stellar art. But as the Clan Building arc continues with Chapter 4: 'Masque', I have to say things just keep getting better and better. Like 'Invitation Only' this issue has a huge supporting cast; Robbins makes his long overdue return, Brendan Quarters is back with a sore ear as always, a slightly tipsy Judge Roebling unexpectedly pops along, as do Sarah Browne and her kids. And whilst old faces are popping up so are new ones, particularly that of Billy's friend Terry and Ambassador Chung (who incidentally also has a son named Terry, hmmm). Whether this new Terry Chung is the Terry Chung of New Olympians fame remains to be seen but if they are one and the same (and my bet is that they are) then the first major revelation of Clan Building is that the events of the New Olympians spin-off will not be happening until at least another decade or so. For some reason I was under the impression that the New Olympians would reveal themselves at the end of the 1990s not long after the Manhattan clan met them. But this delay in their revelation seems more logical and is unlikely to detract from the revelation of the gargoyles; I'm sure the New Olympians along with the rest of the world are watching how the Manhattan residents react to the new gargoyle threat - how this plays out over the years will most likely influence the New Olympians' choice to reveal themselves.
As I said before it was good to see Billy and Susan again (I think this is the first time we've met them again since "Thrill of the Hunt"). It took me a while to figure out that they were dressed as Jackal and Hyena. Sarah seems concerned when she sees the Quarrymen patrolling - I wonder whether she is having second thoughts about joining them.
And it's only a matter of time before Robbins figures out that his Scottish friend is in fact an urban legend come to life - I liked seeing Bronx and Gilly lying next to the fire.
Onto the party - and what a party! Such revelry, such merriment, such debauchery - everyone certainly looks like they're having a good time; I wonder how much Xanatos pay that waitress on page 5? Maybe he should pay her more so that she can afford to buy the rest of her outfit!
I was pleasantly surprised that Angela reprimanded Elisa for bringing Morgan; I'm glad that she spoke out against her, but how much does she know at that point about her and her father breaking up? I doubt that Goliath told any of the clan before he left for the Labyrinth. I'm sure Angela could probably tell something was up from the way Goliath left the Castle. Aside from Hudson, Angela is probably the one most aware of the couple's relationship and feelings for each other, and so it seems right that she would defend her father whilst he's away.
Some have said that her advice to Elisa is hypocritical considering the way she and Broadway have acted around Brooklyn; I disagree - Angela made it clear at the end of "Turf" that she was not a trophy to be one and that if anything was to happen it would happen in its own time.
Brooklyn as usual is moping again - that is until Angela goes up to him; poor girl doesn't realise what signals she's sending him - hopefully next issue Angela will let him down gently and Brook will be out of his depressive moods. Timedancer can't come soon enough for him.
Lexington's "post-modern tin man" - I wonder how much influence Owen had in that costume design.
Speaking of costumes, Elisa carries on her Disney Princesses affiliation by dressing as Jasmine. Nice!
For some reason I was unsure whether Delilah and Elisa had met yet; I'm glad that the first time Elisa saw her was when she was with Goliath and not at a prior off-screen occasion. Make's their meeting all the more awkward and interesting.
Thailog has some neat lines;
"No treat for poor little Thailog? Then trick it is!"
"That's quite enough, Norma Rae."
"Wow, haven't had a good maniacal laugh in weeks."
For a split second the pain, betrayal, jealousy is plain to see on Thailog's face when he learns where Delilah has gone.
Maggie shows her courageous side again by standing up to Thailog - it's a shame it almost cost her her life. She looks so badly hurt in that blast that I'm unsure whether she'll survive or not.
When I first saw Alex in his gargoyle suit last issue I thought to myself Hedgecock's drawing this kid likes he's older than he really is; I'm glad that Ambassador Chung agrees with me on that. Make's me wonder whether Fox also looked older than she was and whether Renard picked up on it?
You've delivered another brilliantly scripted episode! Can't wait until #5 and the conclusion of this story!
I spent a good chunk of my day today reviewing the final coloring and lettering for issue #5. Can't wait for you guys to see it.
Finally got my copy of #3 (and #4 as well more on that later) And I have to say that I'm loving every single moment of this brand new canon story. 11 years of waiting (more like 7 for me as I first started to watch the series properly back in 2000) and finally we have new Gargoyles stories.
I love the opening sequence - the Xanatos family playing happy families makes a beautiful picture perfect opening.
Let's get straight into the meat of this issue; Elisa and Goliath. Elisa does a big 180 here by going from saying "Funny, I feel the exact same way" in response to Goliath's feelings in "The Journey" to the next night saying that they need to break up. But does it feel contrived? No not in the least - why? Because Elisa's suddenly realised that she doesn't live in a fantasy world where she can realistically play guardian angel with Goliath night after night and at the same time balance that with her job at the precinct during the day. Like we saw in "High noon" Elisa just wants a normal life - she would much rather have preferred to live out normalcy and all the perks that that comes with - a house with a yard and kids etc than have investigated those falling rocks from the Eyrie building all the way back in "Awakening".
Throughout the day she's had reminders from people she feels close to that there is a whole different life outside of the gargoyles that she has to live and there's no way she can combine the two. I'm sure she would have loved to have brought Goliath to the precinct picnic but there's no chance at all that she ever would or even could for that matter.
The night before she and her "boyfriend" (it feels so weird calling Goliath her boyfriend - I suppose in the same vein that Goliath makes the distinction between husband and mate) were chased by racially motivated zealots who not only tried to kill her, but nearly succeeded. Goliath was badly injured in that battle and it looks like she took a nasty blow from Castaway's hammer as well. But the difference between the two is that whilst Goliath can hide up in the castle and heal throughout the day, Elisa has to attend to her career with all the paperwork, liaisons and meetings that come with it, bruises and all.
Morgan with his simple look of surprise at her hiding this guy she's supposedly involved with shows her that despite the fact that she's know acknowledging that she has been involved with Goliath for a couple of years, she could never, at least not any time soon, come out with him in public at any time other than Halloween. For all we know, she could have been planning to spend her night off with Goliath on the streets of New York on the one night where she could pretend things were normal. But what about the night after that? And the months and the years after that? Where does Goliath fit in with her idealistic view of her future? She wants kids - and not half gargoyle, half human kids - kids that she can take to school and show off to her friends and drive to football practice with their friends. Unfortunately she can't do that with Goliath's kids.
Then we have her meeting with Jason. I'm sure she didn't stay long with him - but in that brief moment he showed her that again her other half was a mystery to her friends; he probably has an inkling that it might have been Goliath and that's probably what he's alluding to when he talks of the man that can give her everything she's wanted. (I have a feeling though that he hasn't even thought about Goliath being her boyfriend and is referring to himself in that speech - in that he feels he can't give her everything she wants and telling her to stick with her boyfriend who he presumes to be human. Considering that up until a week ago Jason thought that all gargoyles were evil demons and even though he has reformed and changed his views I doubt that even the thought of a cross-species relationship has occurred to him. Prejudices sometimes are hard to remove and I doubt that Jason has done it overnight.)
The feel nail in the Goliath Elisa coffin is I think when Jason grasps Elisa's hand. I'm sure some of the feelings she had for him are still there, probably making her realise that if she could be attracted to Jason, she could still find someone within her own species who could provide her with everything that Goliath can't.
I suppose though that the Xanatos family in the opening pages provide a counterpoint to Elisa's argument. If an amoral billionaire who is obsessed with immortality and is driven by his desire for power, influence and domination coupled with an ex-felon/Half magical being who both spent their honeymoon in 10th century Scotland can have a "normal family", then why can't she?
But like she did in "High Noon" I'm sure Elisa will realise during the course of this double date that it doesn't matter whether she wanted to be thrown into the world of the gargoyles, what matters is that they need her and more especially Goliath needs her just as much as she needs him. But that remains to be seen.
Anyway onto the rest of the issue; Hacker playing everyone - loving it. Can't wait to find out what the Illuminati really want with the gargoyles.
Personally I like the back story exposition of the mutates and the clones; granted I would have loved two pages of new stuff but if it helps out new readers understand then so be it. Is that a growing Thailog in the background in the first panel with Sevarius? I like that continuity.
And finally… He's back!!! Thailog is back and I'm sure with a vengeance! I'm sure he's come back for nothing more than to collect his property. He probably sees the clones as an investment - one that he probably feels Talon is polluting with his education. I doubt Talon's had much of an influence on them though; they've only been down there for two weeks, but it'll be interesting to see what their reaction to Thailog will be.
Goliath and Delilah luckily are out of sight on their way to the Castle. Speaking of which, has Elisa actually gone down into the labyrinth to see Delilah? If not that means that the first time she'll see her will be with Goliath. Now that's going to make things awkward!
I have to say the art on the whole is absolutely stunning on some pages (when Goliath and Elisa are having "the conversation" Goliath looks amazing; wish I could say the same about Elisa though - she looks like an old hag in some of the panels). Hedgecock brilliantly captures the emotion and the pain on Goliath's face - his shock when Elisa says their feelings "are not enough" is priceless. One tiny little point I have to say which really won me over - the moon in the background… it's not full! And so it shouldn't be considering that the hunter's moon was a week ago. This is the kind of continuity that I hope can be carried on throughout the comic book's run.
I especially love the cliffhanger ending - Thailog never looked better!
No review would be complete without mentioning Demona's cameo. No dialogue, one page only - but it sets up so much for future stories. Demona's up to something no doubt about it. I like that even after Operation 'Clean Slate', a plan that she's been hatching for 500 years fails, she's still planning new schemes a few nights later.
On the whole a brilliant issue 5/5
Thanks... Can't wait to read what you thought of #4.
Hey Greg. Just figured I'd chime in on ish #4. Reading people's ramble-responses to the issues, it's clear (and pretty funny) how hungry we've all been for new canon by the way each issue gets dissected, all the way down to the individual lines of dialogue....it reminds me of the rabid way Lost fans pull apart every episode for clues.
The variety in the artwork doesn't bother me at all. After all, the animation on the episodes came from several different studios. Frankly, it will always be secondary to the story and dialogue. That being said, Angela looks stellar in comic form.
It's immensely satisfying to see a cliffhanger at the end of each issue and look forward to its resolution at the beginning of the next. It feels like we were spoiled by the format of the television series, with each episode wrapping up so neatly as the sun rose. Frankly, this suits the Gargoyles' turbulent lifestyle a little better. I've mentioned my glee at your newfound freedom from S&P before, but it's very satisfying to see you no longer restricted by time constraints, also.
What's good? The fact that I can still hear the characters' voices in my head when I read their lines--even Judge Roebling. Owen. Thailog's Sawyer-esque pop culture references suit him well, and contrast him nicely with Goliath.
What's not so good? It took me longer than it should have to figure out who Judge Roebling was. The retro comics fan in me wonders if a tiny little editor's footnote (e.g. "*See the episode 'Vows!' --Greg") would have been useful there.
Overall, however, it's clear now that I had nothing to worry about. Far from simplifying the story or restarting character arcs, the comic has been a nudge and nod to loyal fans. We thank you.
My feeling was that if you didn't know the Judge you learned all you needed to know about him at the moment on the page. A reference back would only make newbies feel like they needed to know more than they really did... leading to a sense that newbies aren't welcome. That's the theory anyway.
Oh, and we'll be starting the Judge Ian Roebling fan club at the Gathering. Membership is cheap, but you have to talk like Foghorn Leghorn at all the meetings. I say, son, I say, you have to talk that way!
My review for number four!...it's another long one.
Awesome story!! My favorite issue so far.
The interior art: well I have to say that Paniry(?) is a better comic artist than Hedgecock (though Hedgcock does do more detailed backgrounds.) From an artist's standpoint, the art is very good. Good fluid action sequences and nice facial and body expressions. Paniry has a better grasp on anatomy than Hedgecock as well. I don't mind the thick outlines. The one gripe I have is that Goliath looks a little too "Incredible Hulk" in some scenes-and Elisa, well she looks more like the REAL Princess Jasmine than Elisa in a Jasmine costume. I have some more thoughts on her costume later. Thailog and Angela look great throughout the book, as do the clones and mutates.
Evan's coloring is pretty decent. One thing though, why are Elisa's eyes blue?? And I could do without all the lens flares-and what's with the shiny white streaks in Goliath's hair?
Okay, sorry for that long babble-I'm an artist, so I'm anal about this stuff.
On to the story-(finally). So we start the book off with Yo' Mama jokes. I couldn't help groaning-oh it's the 90's! I like the kids' banter, though they look a little too "Mickey Mouse" cutesy to me. Also isn't Billy's hair blonde? Okay, I'll stop with the art, I promise :P I thought those Quarrymen were kids in costumes at first. Seriously though, I'de be more scared of those guys than of the gargoyles.
I really like the Hudson/Robbins scene. How awesome would it be to get halloween candy from a gargoyle? I love the panel with Bronx and Gilly sleeping by the fire. A dog is a dog no matter what it looks like! I have a feeling Robbins suspects Hudson is a gargoyle and is waiting for him to admit. I wonder why Hudson doesn't tell him though? Surely he's been in his company enough to know by now that Robbins wouldn't chase him out simply for what he is. Is that what Hudson is afraid of? I like his "mask" line though. It's so true-and it seems to be the theme of this issue (Where's the title?). Everyone wears masks-not just to hide their physical features-but also to hide their inner thoughts and feelings-to others and to themselves.
Ah, Margot and Brendan. I had always assumed for some reason that Brendan's last name was Yale. I guess they are not married. Love the Wizard of Oz costumes-particularly Angela's. Though Lex's choice is a bit creepy. Margot gets close and personal with Lex. For someone who's "seen these beasts up close" she can't tell he's a gargoyle when she's mere inches from his face. Which brings me to this thought; how dense are the people at the party that none of them seem to notice they have *real* gargoyles in their midst? I can understand the random party guests that don't get a good look at them--but those who go up to them like Margot and Morgan? No costume is THAT good. The wings, the tails, the feet. Morgan even *touches* Goliath. Does he suspect? It just seems odd particularly with the rumors that Xanatos harbors the gargoyles. Maybe I'm just being anal...
back to the story...Elisa shows up as Jasmine. We've got a theme here with the Disney Princesses. But is it really in Elisa's character to be dressed in such a skimpy outfit in public like that? I mean we hardly even saw her bare arms throughout the series. I see this as being much more out of character for her than when she breaks up with Goliath. Angela shows she has a bitchy side-it's great-she's not the sweet little angel so many people make her out to be. She's right to be annoyed at Elisa-I am too- but isn't Angela being a bit of hypocrite considering the way she and Broadway are around Brooklyn? She even seems to be flirting with him later on. I like how our heroines are showing flaws in their characters though-makes them more real.
I just love Judge Roebling here. I like how Greg takes all these bit characters we assume we'll only see once and brings them back and gives them personality. Robeling seems to have gotten in the bubbly a bit. His speech patterns remind me of Foghorn Leghorn lol. I love how he just comes up to Goliath and talks to him as if he's just like any other normal guy in the room. And I love the "wink wink nudge nudge" line. A reference to Monty Python? I have a friend who says that a lot and he likes both Monty Python and Gargoyles. This guy reminds me of him I guess. I like Goliath's terse "No!" when Roebling asks if Delilah is Demona. Goliath's in such a talky mood...One thing that is really missing from the comic books is tone of voice. I would like to hear how Goliath said "No!", how Brentwood said "free...will?" Oh well, I guess we just have to use our imaginations.
I love the akward moment when delilah talks about her genetic sources. She's so direct hehe, and then Elisa and Morgan show up. I think the term we are searching for during the party scenes is "Awkward." I love that long dark panel with just the four of them in the spotlight staring at each other. It's just them in the room...
I think drooling broadway and Lex is a bit much. We're trying to get away from the idea that Broadway is just a big eatint machine. I'm glad that Lex is drooling right along with him though. At least they're enjoying themselves-even Lex who doesn't have a signifiant other. Unlike Brooklyn who's moping and feeling sorry for himself again...he's getting on my nerves.
I got the connection with the Chungs. Ambassador Chung and Terry, the kid from the first few panels. Not too big of a deal for me since I've never been interested in the New Olympian spinoff in the least-don't really know why, I'm just not. Maybe if I went to the Gathering and learned more about it--though unfortunately I can't go this year. (I do intend to get to at least one). Though I wonder if we'll see more of these two in the current gargoyle universe.
Interesting bit of information about Alex's growth spurt. I haven't noticed. I'm also a bit surprised that only four months has passed since "The Gathering." Probably because we haven't gotten new material in ten years.
I'm not surprised that a high up Illuminati guy would be working in the white house-as a server no less! I can't even make any speculation on what they want to talk to Xanatos about.
Back to the labyrinth- Claw and Maggie come into their own here. Claw tackles Thailog-must have taken a lot of guts considering his timid personality. But I gotta hand it to maggie. She stands up to Thailog-a homicidal gargoyle armed to the teeth who had just subdued both Talon and Claw. I don't think a lot of people give her enough credit-she has a lot of courage-and she's buried for it...I hope she's okay. Didn't get the Norma Rae line until some people said it was a Sally Field movie. How old is the target audience again? ;)
I like the free will theme going on with the clones. Do they have a choice in following Thailog? Or maybe they just don't realize that they do. Brentwood stands out from the other clones here. He's even listening in the background when Goliath and Owen discuss Delilah's free will later on. I think he's going to break off from Thailog.
So labyrinth girl volunteers to go warn Goliath. She's a bit too late though- if she even went at all. I'm curious as to her motives. Back at the party Morgan is an idiot and reminds Elisa that she broke up with Goliath...dude, that's not the best way to romance a girl. He's perseptive, but Elisa and Goliath must have tension radiating from them that you can cut with a knife when they're next to each other. It can't be THAT hard to figure it out.
Elisa and Goliath are so kind to their dates hehe. I actually feel bad for them. Elisa just kinda ignores Morgan and stares into space, and Goliath just kinda ignores Delilah and stares at Elisa. Goliath just orders Delilah to "stay here" while he runs after Elisa. Yeah, real nice Goliath, treat Delilah like Thailog does. I love how morgan attempts to break the tension with his "having fun yet" line. I think they both realize they're being used.
I really like the Goliath/Elisa moment. It's so frustrating- Elisa is trying to run away from her feelings. Does she honestly believe that she can go on without Goliath? It's so pathetically obvious that she can't, yet she keeps trying. I love Goliath's speech. He actually uses the word "love" in reference to Demona and Elisa. Pretty strong admissin I think. This is the closest he has ever come to telling her he loves her...I get the feeling he was about to-but Elisa cuts him off, again. Maybe Elisa realized what he was about to say and that's why she ran off. ARGHH! DAMNIT ELISA! I'm surprised Goliath hasn't completely lost it with her by now-just grab her by the shoulders, tell her to "shut the hell up" and listen to him!
Thailog is true to his word and crashes the party. Poor Goliath, it's just going from bad to worse. I love Owen's response. So very "Owen." He had that goon squad ready relatively quickly-so maybe Labyrinth girl did give word? Hmmm...I love Owen's line about constantly repairing the castle. A little nod to all the times the castle is damaged because of all the craziness that goes on there. Owen makes the best possible choice he can and offers up Delilah. Poor Delilah, just a pawn in all this mess. I hope she eventually rips Thailog a new one. I really like the split panel with the halves of Goliath's and Thailog's faces. And then the cliffhanger...Wow, Thailog is one nasty SOB! First he buries Maggie alive for talking to the clones, then he stabs Goliath in the gut, who's just standing there!! I wasn't too surprised that this happened, since I seen the cover to #5 when it got out accidentally. Oh well. The look on Goliath's face while he's being stabbed is a bit comical. I'm not sure if that was the intention. But oh man, Greg really leaves us hanging! I can't wait for number five! I'm intrigued by Greg saying "Elisa makes a choice" on the back page. Maybe seeing Goliath nearly dying will convince that she's being an idiot and that her place is with him. I'm also curious as to what Delilah will choose to do.
All in all, an awesome chapter to this great story! My one major gripe is that it's too short! Great job to everyone who worked on it!
Foghorn Leghorn and Monty Python -- who says I don't have widespread influences?
As for the target audience, it's basically me. Just me. Only me. Me. Me alone. No one else. Just me. Me. Did I say "me"? Me. (The rest of you are just along for the ride. Hope you like the scenery.) Me.
[Oh, come on, like you haven't suspected it all along!]
Greg, I finally get the comment at the same time the que is open! (Big thanks to Kyt for sending them on to me).
This isn't so much a review as a squee-dump, hope you don't mind :)
I'm loving the new material, it's wonderful to finally have some new canon, to (maybe?) know what you have planned for the Clan & Co.
The cover to #4 is fabulous, I hope that Greg continues to do them. I'm also looking forward to seeing how the guest artists do on the interiors.
Glad you like the stuff. Greg G. will continue to do the covers for the forseeable future, both on Gargoyles and on Gargoyles: Bad Guys.
Does Morgan find it odd Elisa's been invited to a party at the Xanatos'?
Being that they're convicted fellons and all and Elisa's just a 'normal cop' as far as Morgan knows, wouldn't he find something a miss? I mean, no matter how much faith he has in Elisa has to have enough cop sense to know Xanatos wouldn't invite his arresting officer to a party with New York's highest crust without them having some unseen link... Or is Morgan just so excited to be "getting his shot" he'd have went anywhere without question?
Good question. I'm thinking that at first, he's too happy to get the date to think about where they're going too much. Later...
In regards to issue #4, could you have gotten away with the last page if it was for television? If so how?
Probably not. CERTAINLY not today. Back then... maybe. Back then a lot had to do with HOW you presented something.
My review of issue the fourth, SPOILERS a plenty.
There's an emerging axiom in politics during presidential cycles: The candidate whose visage sells as a Halloween mask more than the other's wins the election. Well, maybe "axiom" is too strong a word for the trend, but if the same trendy-coincidental thing applies to the gargoyles, then the people of New York, despite their fears, appear to really like the gargoyles.
And Broadway is winning the "election" by my count of the socialites' costume choices.
Yet I suppose that when Sarah Browne was presented with the choice of having her children dress up as gargoyles or convicted felons, the decision was easy for her; although I wonder if that glance she gave the patrolling Quarrymen was one of continued concern about the gargoyles or concern about what she's gotten herself into.
I'm glad to see Terry introduced as a child in order to leave plenty of room for character development - in the hopes of the license's longevity, of course - but I was most excited by the (re)introduction of Robbins, even if it did make me sad that Paul Winfield is no longer with us. Robbins' appearance, however brief, does make me wonder though just how much he knows about Hudson. I view Robbins as a perceptive fellow, and so I wonder if, perhaps, tonight is a tipping point in Robbins' understanding of who Hudson really is.
To party Wyvern and the sudden boom in the gargoyle population: Again, it would appear that deep down at least New York's ruling elite are pretty warm to gargoyles - or at least the concept of them - Judge Roebling not least among that crowd. I also find myself sympathizing with the anonymous partygoers who spotted the waitress in the center of the bottom panel on page five.
I mean, seriously.
Of course, it's not at all lost on me the humor in Margot digging the gargoyles. She may hate that everybody has dressed up as gargoyles, but she's not taken aback enough to engage in passive conversation with at least one of them, despite having "seen them up close" as the monsters they really are. I wonder how much emphasis she places on the reliability of eyewitness testimony in her trials.
The gargoyles' costumes are appropriate to their characters, although Lex's in particular gave me the greatest reason to smile. Angela as Dorothy makes plenty of sense - her Kansas is long gone - although I'm curious as to when she got a chance to see the "Wizard of Oz." But of all the costumes sported by both gargoyles and humans I like Morgan's the best, and he seems comfortable enough - even in the awkwardness that ensues, and boy is there awkwardness.
And again, awkwardness settles heavy over Brooklyn. Granted, it's still the same night as the last issue, but for someone who is obviously pained by the closeness of Angela and Broadway it seems logical that he would stay far away from them, not lurk nearby, much less near them *and* Delilah. Frankly, though, I think Angela's response to his lurking is inappropriate, and then her reaction to Elisa's escorting Morgan to the party is just downright hypocritical. Sure, she's okay if her relationship with Broadway is hitting an obvious sore spot with Brooklyn, whose choice of mates (at present) is even slimmer than Goliath's, but it's not cool for Elisa to show up with a new suitor. If not hypocritical, it shows that Angela crosses that thin line separating naïve and just plain dense towards the latter camp.
Jumping over the Labyrinth at the moment to go to the White House: Greg, is that how you see the parties of D.C.'s elite going down? I understand the value of juxtapositioning as a literary device, don't get me wrong, and I'm not saying the Clinton White House was "Animal House" gone political, but it's hard to get people to show up to parties around here in large numbers if there *isn't* an open bar, especially the ruling elite.
All I'm saying. That and I was amused by Fox holding a replica of her tattoo as a "mask" in order to fit in with the party's subdued nature.
I was also unsurprised to find out that Xanatos' high-level Illuminati contact in the White House was a "lowly" servant. The personal staffers of powerful people tend to have the best access to said powerful people, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that the Illuminati would choose to put one of its higher-echelon members in such a capacity to remain connected to the administration.
To the Labyrinth, and combat! Clearly Talon's clone reprogramming initiative has not gone as planned, nor has Maggie seen much cause to step up her combat training, to her painful detriment. And if Thailog didn't let out a maniacal laugh upon learning about Goliath's date with Delilah, I would have been immensely disappointed. Immensely.
I'm still ambivalent about New Girl. Granted, I want to know why she's decided to take it upon herself to at least make the effort, however futile by issue's end, to warn Goliath about Thailog's impending attack, but at the same time I just have a hard time seeing what new role she can play in the gargoyles' universe that isn't in some way already cast.
I'll keep my faith in you on that front.
Elisa appears to be having a particularly, and really peculiarly, difficult time coming to grips with her emotions about how her relationship with Goliath has unfolded - or hasn't as the case may be. What's disturbing about that is how level-headed she's typically been in times of crisis, and so to see her unravel about something that was *her* decision is bothersome.
Thailog's timing and attack are brutal - and, again, I would expect no less from him. Owen also handles the situation well within his boundaries, even if Goliath doesn't ultimately fare too well. Although by that last panel I have to admit that I wasn't thinking about how much pain Goliath was in as much as I was wondering about what Delilah's going to think of the whole affair once she arrives on scene.
On the whole, I liked this issue a lot. We're finally making some mileage on new canon, and we're getting to see some more-than-interesting developments on both the story level and the character level. But I have to admit that I'm not too hot on the artist combination in this one. I like it well enough, don't get me wrong, it's just a matter of personal preference - I'm not big on thick outlines, I'm more of a thin line/detail kind of person. The coloring works, but the thick penciling/ink work seems to rob some of that away.
One real gripe, though, is on quality control. Wrong name in the credits? Missing title and logo? I appreciate your coming forward with the errors in a ramble block here on Ask Greg, and having been in an editing gig myself for a while I can appreciate that "it" happens, but these strike me as some very easy-to-catch problems. It's not much of a trade-off for the fans if regular updates are coming at the cost of quality.
I'm certainly looking forward to the next issue, however, and I'm still very much enjoying the series' return. Thank you and your team for all your work!
And to offer my own mea culpa: I confused Al as one of Fang's cronies from "Kingdom," hence my "minor villain" comment in my last review, which you caught and I didn't. Sorry.
No apology necessary. And believe me, I'm VERY upset about the lack of quality control on the last issue.
It's that time again for another Comic Review (I'm still in shock of having new Gargoyles stories. I still think I don't really know how good we have it!)
So okay, here it is. My #4 review:
First off, I LOVED this issue. Better yet, I really enjoyed the experience of being Masque! As I mentioned earlier, when I went to grab my copy of Masque, the Comic clerk smiled and said, "Oh! You're a fan of that series, are you? Be happy you got a copy now -- I doubt I'll have any at the end of the day."
To which I could only reply: "Really? THAT'S GREAT!" He replied, "Oh yes, that's a very popular title for us."
So four issues into Clan Building, and my comic shop's pretty confidant about it. As I wrote earlier in the CR: "Oh happy day." Though it DOES make me feel sorry for those who've had problems trying to get ANY of the comics (like VA's idiotic comic dudes). Shame they can't come to my Comic Shop in Phoenix . . . .
The first thing I noticed (besides the lighter cover, and if its a minor cost issue, I'll live.) was the darker inside cover. The previous issues had some yellow text and the main GARGOYLES title had that usual Gold-ish glow to it. Not in Masque: It's all in gray-scale. But I don't mind: The story is in full swing like the sun has finally set and we're well into night now.
Which couldn't be any more true. Within the first eight pages the Brownes are trick-or-treating at Robbin's House, Hudson is dishing OUT the candy at Robbin's House, the Xanatos Masque is in full swing, and Thailog's having a ball in the Labyrinth. Good lord.
It was great to see Jeffrey Robbins again. He reminds me alot like my own grandfather (who fought in Korea and is paralyzed . . . though not from the war.) Besides the physical and historical similarities, my grandpa has the same fire-in-the-belly that gives him the will to work and learn ("I learned Braille when I was nearly (50?) and I'll learn a whole NEW way of reading at 80 if I have to!"). So yes, great to him relaxing by the fire and obviously aware of Hudson's "lie of omission."
I'm a geek about the Eyrie Building since I first saw City of Stone (seeing them crash into that little park behind the glass was SO cool), so I love Xanatos hosting a party right there. But I do wonder -- Has he the chance to host other parties since "Awakening?" I kinda doubt it . . . what with prison and the constant destruction of the Castle (more on this later).
I LOVE Margot Yale and Brendan Quarters (Yay! Last name!) I remember asking about Brendan when reading "Invitation Only" so I was glad to be treated with him here. Man . . . how does he put UP with that woman??
Anyways, all the costumes were great (and I can only imagine which Disney Princess Elisa will become NEXT Halloween :P ), though Lex's DID scare me just a tad. (I wonder if Owen helped with the costume making . . . .)
It was also great to see Judge Roebling, and I honestly was surprised to see him, after having nothing more than a guest spot in "VOWS" (yeah, no one gets just a "guest spot" in Gargoyles!). He does seem more comfortable with the gargoyles, which I was happy to see.
I absolutely love the writing because while the comic still isn't the same as the TV show, some parts just ring absolutely perfect -- which bring back the stellar voice cast. Best Examples: When Morgan asks Elisa if he even IS getting his shot, when Xanatos finishes Ambassador Chung's sentence, when Talon shouts he's not leaving Maggie, Thailog's maniacal laugh, and of course: Owen's monologue to Goliath and Thailog.
I always geek out about Owen, and I've been doing so whenever I see him simply APPEAR in the past issues, but here, I can REALLY be proud of him, where he's able to take Thailog's weapons AND critize how he has to take care of repairing the castle time and time again (I think the ONLY other time this was addressed was when Xanatos called Owen to bring up the cleaning crew in AWAKENING: PART II . . . or was it III? I've lost count. :P ).
But yes, Owen's stern manner in front of creatures that would send shivers down the spine of nearly ANYONE (Thailog of course, but even Goliath's rage is impressive -- hey, it did make Dracon prematurely white haired!) always earns my praise. So yes, LOVED Owen in this issue.
Other randomn thoughts:
- Alex's costume is STILL so adorable I wish I had one as a baby. I actually told my mother this! Her reply, "Well, you DID have some cute costumes." But a gargoyle? "Well, no . . . how was I supposed to know?!"
- Sarah's children as Jackel and Hyena -- that made me laugh.
- The Chung family seems to grow. It's quite clear that Ambassador Chung and Terry are related, but I'm still wary on adding Tri (from the Gargoyles Taskforce) into the tree as well . . . maybe an older brother??
- Ambassador Chung doesn't LOOK like a gargoyle, but she does look older than what I would have imagined, at least if Terry is so young, thus why I think Tri's maybe an older brother to Terry.
- Thailog's hovering/gliding down on Goliath was some nice art, IMO. Very menacing and commanding!
- I got a kick out of Fox's eye mask . . . someone said it looked redundant. I think it was more coy on Fox's part.
- 36/2: The mystery continues! Maybe a ranking system??
- New Girl is intriguing me, and I wish I got to see her face when someone tells her "Just go to the tallest tower in the world!"
- Finally, Goliath is having a REAL rough night. Getting dumped pratically twice by Elisa and being stabbed by your "son." Oy.
Finally, after finishing the comic the first time through, I looked at the cover again, and I finally realized, "Hey that WASN'T Demona . . . it was Delilah the whole time!" So I'm slow at times . . . at least I finally got it (should have realized earlier -- Demona doesn't have a glass-shard shaped earing like Delilah's)
So yep, I'm done. Thanks again for writing a great comic, for allowing us to comment on the comic, AND for commenting on out comments! What a cycle it must be . . . .
ON TO BASH!!!
When a comic store guys says: "I doubt I'll have any at the end of the day," I can't help wanting to ask: "Then why don't you order more copies...?"
Thoughts on issue #3:
The general trends in the comments about this issue seemed right. Like others, I am wondering about what will happen with Demona and Thailog, what mysteries the Illuminati hold, the future of Goliath and Elisa, etc. etc..
Here are my thoughts, in particular
* Sometimes David Hedgecock's drawing looks good; at other times it is hard for me to read facial expressions. Characters seem to have a default "bored" expression.
* Unfortunately, as you must know well, words have different meanings for different people. I gather that for you, "(male) mate" and "husband" refer to different cultural expectations? Could you clarify this?
I sense it depends on what a "husband" is: I assume, then, you mean "husband" in the typical American sense, as opposed to its generalization to other cultures: "a male participant in a somewhat formalized sexually based relation between/amongst intelligent beings, possibly including polygamy."
* When Elisa talks about marriage, I can't help hearing the song "Our House" rolling through my mind.
* "Send in the clones"; so Talon and Maggie seem to be of one mind on this one...
* I see Brooklyn is still not comfortable with his clone.
* Interesting little pickle you've set up amongst Goliath, Brooklyn, and Delilah. Goliath and Brooklyn do not seem interested in Delilah except out of biological imperative (and only half-heartedly at that), and Delilah is merely doing what she is programmed to do; in a sense, you could argue the same thing about Brooklyn and Delilah.
* Considering Goliath and Brooklyn's plight: assuming clans are not always balanced sexually, what did unmatched gargoyles typically do?
* "An entertainment at the castle": nice phraseology. Very Goliath.
Final thought: Throughout the end of the show (ignoring Goliath Chronicles) and the beginning of this comic book series, almost all of the plot concerning Brooklyn deals with finding a mate. However, it could be projection on my part, but I sense a general dismay at life emanating from him. I know he's frustrated at the humans' response to him: are there other things bothering him as well?
Mate/Husband - You're asking me about how I define it or about how Goliath makes the distinction? Cuz, I'm trying to write in character here. I think Goliath was viewing their relationship in Gargoyle terms, and it just became clear to him that Elisa was viewing it in human terms. That was the distinction, he was trying to make.
Some unmatched gargoyles were fine with it. Others were very lonely, I suppose.
As for Brooklyn... I'll leave that to your interpretations.
Got issue 4 today. Picked up an additional copy for a friend in my neighborhood (He's up for recieving more issues). I also got him #1 and 3 (They're out of issue 2 at the comic store, I'll work at getting a copy for him).
- Looks like you were going for a reversal of Jackal and Hyena. That being Susan being the calmer/mature one. Or she'd probably thinks she's more mature.
- The other reviews mention Sarah's nervous reaction to the Quarrymen, makes me wonder if members are required to be well acquainted with each other.
- While we did see Margot in #1-2, it's just not a party without her or Brendan. Have to say that's another improvement with the comics over TGC. We get to see supporting characters like Morgan and Brendan more often.
- I wonder if Owen got to see Lex's Halloween costume.
Between the art for #3 and 4 they both seem to do well in resemblance to the show. Nir did pretty well as a guest artist for this issue. Looking forward to seeing how Karine and Gordon do for issues 5-6.
Great job on the story. Looking forward to issue 5.
Thanks... can't wait for you guys to see it!
Issue #4, "Masque": Ramble/Review
Overall, this issue was very fun. For some reason, a lot of the panels felt more confining than they did in previous issues, but if Paniry is a storyboard artist, that might be where that comes from. I think he is better with facial expressions, though.
I like Billy and Susan's costumes. So their mom is a Quarryman and she lets her kids dress up as convicted felons. I'm surprised stores were still stocking Pack costumes, unless she made them herself or saved them from another holiday. Still, I got the sense that it was either that or gargoyles, and ironically, she went with what she probably imagined was the lesser of two evils. Unless I'm reading too much into it.
I liked the way Thailog's guns work. Would stand to reason that he'd probably have a few items stored for a rainy day in case things didn't go as planned in "The Reckoning." And he had some great dialogue. The attitude remains. And he did something quite surprising at the end. Wow.
Owen also had some good dialogue. Liked the game of poker he was playing with Thailog. Xanatos's security force also seems to have grown in size. And I get the feeling that Delilah's line close to the end of the third issue might be some foreshadowing as to what choice she'll make in #5. But I've been wrong before. For some reason, I had thought that Elisa already knew about Delilah. Nice little moment between them, hopefully they'll get more interesting (the moments, I mean).
And we cut away from Xanatos just when things were getting interesting. Hopefully, he'll have a bigger part in future issues. Not that I'm complaining about this one. As I said, Thailog's attitude rocks.
And the Labyrinth Girl's going on an adventure. I too have to wonder when she'll be getting a name. Unless there's a dramatic setup revolving around that.
Here's hoping Issue #5 comes out on time.
Elisa did know about Delilah. She just hadn't met her yet.
What a time for comic books. Especially when they're adaptations of unaired seasons. In this case, Buffy Season 8 (picked up Buffy #3 and Gargs #4 today) and (the real) Gargoyles Season 3. But since this is a Gargoyles site and not a Buffy one, I'll leave a review on Gargs #4, and maybe I'll discuss Buffy later. Maybe at the con or something.
It was a fun issue. The artwork seemed (to me, anyway) to be a little more cartoon-ish. It was a little hard for me to tell just what was going on in some panels. At least, not right away. Though on the other hand, it was a different kind of artwork, and who doesn't appreciate variety? So the art did not bother me. In fact, I somewhat enjoyed it.
And nice props on 'Cyborg Lex' too. Made me flash back to Future Tense, which is/was one of my favorite episodes. I wonder if it creeped Goliath out any? Though I have to admit I (at first glance) thought Lex WAS going as the Tin Man, to collaborate with Broadway and Angela's Wizard Of Oz costumes. But now that I think about it, Lex conveinently (albeit unknowingly) dressing up as the Evil Lex of Goliath's worst nightmare made more sense. You obviously did that to mess with the fans, Greg, and I applaud you for it. Bravo for the WTF moment you drew out of me. :D
And of course we can't leave Margot Yale. Berating poor Brendan. Plus, I guess that, despite all their encounters in the past, she can't even recognize a Gargoyle in costume, going so far as to praise Lex for it. It's either short-term memory issues or her inability to believe that the 'monsters' are anything but or both.
Thailog in the Labyrinth was a treat. Just as bad-assed as ever. That's what makes him one of my favorite characters. He's Goliath's evil side. I guess he never changes and never will. Shooting at Maggie and being able to manipulate his 'property' into helping him attack Goliath at the end. Claw, another of my beloved characters, came into play a bit here as well. I dunno what I expected to happen next after #3's climax, but it definitely wasn't that. Claw is so cool. Too bad he can't overpower Thailog.
And when Thailog STABS Goliath at the end! Holy. Crap...!
More Elisa and Goliath angst, too. Ho hum.
More Illuminati greeting too. Now if only I knew what the numbers represented. I'm guessing rank, but you're the only one who really knows. And knowing you, you're not saying.
What's Xanatos' mission at the White House anyway?
Oh, and it took me a little bit to remember who Judge Roebling was. Is he going to slowly and over time develop more?
Nice little Brooklyn/Angela moment too. Even if she's mated and she only wants to see his costume, it's nice that Brooklyn finally gets SOME kind of positive time with a female. It's not the romantic kind that he wants, but it's better then him being used, rejected, or attacked.
Hopefully the events of Timedancer will come soon, but that's my own personal anticipation, and there's no rush.
Another great issue, Greg. Cool story, decent animation, Thailog at his best, and some great moments of irony ('Future Tense' Lex) all chalk up to another great installment. I'm definitely psyched for #5.
Oh, and I'm definitely bringing all my comics (Buffy in the chance you might want to read it, and Gargoyles for autographing.) to the con next month.
See you then.
I've been collecting the new Buffy too.
Just got done reading Gargoyles #4...it was a great balance between drama and all out action.
I liked the scenes with Thailog the best... he's got to be my favorite "villain" in the series, as he thinks he's doing the right thing, but he's just got it all wrong.
It also seems like the Illuminati plot is thickening... this time Xanatos said "thirty-six" and the waiter said "two", not "thirty-two"... I'm looking forward to seeing what this all means.
Also, I was wondering why the comic now has a floppier paper cover and still costs the same. The first three had solid stock covers which I assumed is why it was 3.50 instead of the normal 2.99 price that most comics are..
Keep up the great work, it's great to see the Gargs storyline moving forward.
I don't know that Thailog thinks he's doing the RIGHT thing. I think he thinks he's doing the THAILOG thing. In which case, he pretty much has it all RIGHT.
As for the price, the answer's mostly fairly obvious. Smaller print runs mean costs are spread over fewer issues. Two ways to deal with cost are to raise price or lower costs. SLG apparently chose to do both. For SLG, Gargoyles has two unusual-for-them HIGH costs. One is the color interiors (most of SLG's books are black and white) and the other -- and most significant cost -- is the very expensive Disney license. Most SLG books are not licensed. The double whammy of those two factors makes Gargoyles one of SLG's three MOST expensive books to produce. When sales were over 10K, they could afford the paper quality and lower price. When sales fall below 7K, not so much.
My Review For Gargoyles #4, "Masque"...
- First off, after reading it and beginning my review, I can't help notice that there isn't a title page for this issue. I can't find the title "Masque" anywhere in the book. That's not really a problem, but it did make me wonder why not.
- So, we left off with Trick or Treat and we pick back up with Trick or Treaters. Billy and Susan have obviously aged a couple years. They seem to still be big Pack fans, which is pretty cool. And then there is Billy's friend Terry. Now, I don't think any of the more hardcore fans of the series have any doubts about who he is (though Greg could throw us a curveball). I'm actually pleased that something I guessed about a long time ago is correct: "The New Olympians" spinoff is probably gonna take place roughly a decade or more after "Hunter's Moon". Terry's apparent age confirms that. It is cool that we know this kid is gonna end up being a major figure, but at the moment he is just a kid dressed up for Halloween as Goliath, as many kids were in the mid-90s.
- Little things I liked about this first scene: Sarah glancing at the Quarrymen (who are, by the way, making a presence as Castaway said, but NOT smashing Jeffrey's gargoyles), the "Nice mask" line was such a homage to one more of our great voice actors: Greg Weisman!, Gilly and Bronx by the fire.
- Since "Invitation Only", I, and others, have suspected Hudson and Bronx were on their ways to Robbins' house for the night, so that wasn't much of a shock. The conversation between Jeffrey and Hudson was fun. This is a very interesting relationship. Hudson's face in the last frame is the best part for me. I studied it for a while trying to figure out what Hudson was thinking and feeling. It seems to me that he wants to tell Robbins but is a little afraid. He is happy to have a friend, but sad that he has to cover up the truth. Feeling you can't be truthful to a friend because you'll lose the friend is an awful feeling. I hope Hudson figures out what to do. I wonder what he told Jeffrey about Bronx... "This is my shaved giant web-eared dog... don't worry, he's house trained..."
- It is weird to see so many people at the Eyrie. I believe most often we see very small groups of people there and the large crowds tend to be fleeing the building. Broadway and Angela are fun and they bring in yet another Wizard of Oz reference to the series. (As a side note: I loved seeing the stuffed Toto because Toto was a Cairn Terrier and my dog Gus is descended from him. The many Wiz Of Oz lines in "Hound of Ulster", not to mention the cairns in the episode, are a part of the reason that Cuchullain is my Comment Room avatar. He's a reference to my dog, sorta. Anyway, now I know what my dog would look like as a Gargoyles comic character.)
- And then we have Lexington... boy, THAT'S an interesting costume. Where have we seen THAT before. Oh, fun.
- Not sure how I feel about Elisa as Jasmine... Give me some time to think about that.
- There are so many neat little touches in this one I don't know if I could mention them all, but a short list is Morgan and Broadway chatting and Angela's dissaproval of Elisa bringing a date. Great stuff.
- Back to the Labyrinth. Thailog starts mowing everyone down. Glad Thailog was prepared for Talon's eel blast. Thailog vs. Claw was a lot of fun.
- I didn't expect to see Judge Roebling again. He was fun here, a very different side of him than we saw in "Vows".
- And then things get awkward. The meeting we've all been waiting for. Goliath, Delilah, Elisa and Morgan. Oh Lord. I love how the crowd seems to dissappear as these four live out their awkward moment.
- Brooklyn... Here we go again. Poor, poor Brooklyn. And Angela's attempt to make him feel better looks like it's backfiring.
- I didn't like the Broadway and Lex chowing down frame. It was kinda gross. Suddenly these two are acting like animals.
- Off to the White House and we meet Ambassador Chung, thats neat. I'm sure we'll see more of her. And Alex... I'm glad that Greg is addressing what appears to be the rapid aging of little Alex. Very interesting.
- The Illuminati Waiter is neat. "Two", eh? Greg got an eyebrow raise out of me with that one.
- Back to Claw vs. Thailog. I do wonder why Claw didn't use his eel blast against the Clones. Maybe he didn't want to hurt them. And Maggie trying to talk sense into the Clones is neat. But they don't even really consider her opinion, they just are not programmed that way, I guess. Pisses Thailog off anyway, Maggie is nearly killed. Wow.
- Probably one of the neatest moments in this episode is when Malibu tells Thailog that Goliath took Delilah on a date and for a moment Thailog gets this face like he feels rejected or shocked or something... and then he laughs! What a great character. I think that laugh is hiding something though. Jealousy at least.
- Delilah and Morgan standing on their own. How awkward is that?
- More Elisa and Goliath drama. I mean really, they have their feelings for each other, but what are they supposed to do? I have no clue. At this point I'm not sure how it's gonna work out.
- And then we have our closing scene. Owen shines in this one, so cool and collected, and his comment about endlessly rebuilding the Castle was hilarious. I kinda wondered if Bruno is among those troops. And then Thailog takes his cheap shot. Ouch. That has gotta hurt. Goliath has had a rough few nights. First his wing gets shot up, then the next night his heart is broken and he gets stabbed by his own flesh and blood. Talk about a bad week.
- My overall opinions on this episode are very good. The story was great, and it'll leave me lots to think about before our next issue. I did not hate the art, but I think Issue #3 was the best we've seen so far. The characters look pretty good all in all though, very dynamic. It is also neat to see shots like the half Thailog, half Goliath face and the double date couples alone in a crowded room. I'm eagerly awaiting Issue #5. Thanks for another great one Greg, David, Dustin, Greg Stephanie, Dan, Jennifer and Scott!!!!
And NIR!! Again, to reiterate, since it can't be said enough times, the penciller/inker for the issue was Nir Paniry. David did work on it, as letterer. But the art was Nir's.
And of course, Bruno's there leading the Commandos.
My ramble-review of #4.
I thought that this was another fun one. I was amused by a lot of the little tidbits (Billy and Susan's trick-or-treating partner being Terry Chung, Billy and Susan going trick-or-treating as Jackal and Hyena, the "nice mask" line, Lexington's costume, the revelation - at last- of Brendan's surname, Judge Roebling's cameo, Owen's remark about repairing the damage done to the castle, Thailog's "maniacal laugh" line, etc.).
So now we know that Elisa's partner for the Double Date is Officer Morgan. Not only does it make sense (since I don't think that Jason's current legal situation would make him that appropriate for the role), but it provides the great symmetry of both males involved in the Double Date being voiced by Keith David and both females by Salli Richardson. (I remember thinking, back before the comics came out, about how that would make Officer Morgan the more appropriate candidate, and that it would be even better if Thailog was to be the antagonist in that episode - then Keith David could have really earned his paycheck if it had been made on television. And now that we know that Thailog *is* the antagonist of this story, I can safely say that here.)
Maggie urging the Clones to think for themselves rather than blindly following Thailog was a great moment. So, too, was Owen's interaction with Thailog, and readiness to have Delilah make her own choice over whom to be with.
There'll certainly be much to look forward to in #5: obviously, Goliath will survive Thailog's attack on him (given how important he is to the series, I doubt that you'd dare kill him off so soon after its revival), but there's so much else to find out (what Delilah's choice will be, what the Illuminati want to talk to Xanatos about at the White House, even what Brooklyn's costume will be). Thanks for another issue, Greg.
You're welcome. And in case I don't say it often enough, thank you, Todd, for all the work you put in here at ASK GREG.
Just a few things I forgot....
-Speaking of Owen, BOY he has a pair of brass balls.
-Elisa's costume choices are constantly very symbolic. When she was Belle, it was for her relationship with Goliath. Now, she's Jasmine, the princess who just wants a "normal" life. And Elisa having a thing for Disney princesses is too cute.
-I wonder if Billy and Susan's mother is starting to re-think her Quarryman membership; that glance at the two on the street seemed uneasy. Perhaps she's starting to realize what the Quarrymen really are all about. Castaway looks like a genius, now, too--so many little kids are running around in garg costumes, all it takes is the inevitable one idiot with a hammer to completely destroy the Quarrymen and make the gargs (or at least their champions) sympathetic.
-It makes sense that Broadway would like Morgan's costume; he's a detective buff, after all. Little continuity things like that please me. Part of what made this show so good was the little moments/details that added up.
-I don't find Margot's costume gaffe all that surprising, though; I mean, you see a Cowardly Lion and a Dorothy, you assume the one in shiny silver-looking stuff is some sort of Tin Man. Love Angela's Toto; like the symbolism of her as Dorothy; she's definitely not in Kansas anymore. Broadway's, I wonder if Fox wasn't just looking to make them a matched set. (Also, I wonder if Lex's cyborg costume was intended to also double as possibly a Tin Man-ish thing, and if so, if Brook will have a costume that's vaguely Scarecrow-ish.)
-A little thing I liked: Hudson looking HUGE on the third page from the kids' point of view. To them, he probably DOES seem like a giant!
-Man, poor Hudson gets no love! Very few costumes of him; Brook and Goliath seem to be the most popular. (And no one gets Lex's wings right, either.)
-I realize it's probably a large age gap, but I wonder if Ambassador/Terry Chung are related to Tri Chung from issue #3.
-The new girl seems a little quick to be suddenly jumping into the action, given that she found out all this backstory about five minutes ago; something's clearly up with her. I, too, liked the "Moving!" line.
Both the cover and the interior pages are (for my issue, at least) thinner and flimsier than the cover/pages of the previous three issues, especially the cover. I am guessing that that's a cost-cutting measure and hoping it doesn't indicate poor sales. :\
Still looking forward to #5!
Well, it doesn't indicate great sales.
How many of the Gargoyles from Ishimura have names? We know Kai, Yama, Sora, and from their past Katana, but what about the rest?
PS - got #4 today, and I loved it! Cant wait to see what Brooklyn's costume looks like, though I have a decent guess.
They all have names by the moden era.
Issue #4: "Masque" My long, rambling thoughts (in no particular order):
-I had forgotten that Nir Paniry was going to be the guest artist for this issue, so you can imagine my reaction when I flipped open to the first page and went "...buh?"
-Speaking of the art, I actually liked it more than I thought I would. It's heavily stylized, obviously, but something about it seems to mesh well with Gargoyles, even if it is a little overly "cartoonish" at times. (The fact that it's a Halloween issue probably helps, too.) Paniry is excellent at showing emotion, especially in distance shots; in particular, Brooklyn's grin when he tells Angela he'll get his costume on and Angela as she pulls Elisa away from Broadway and Morgan. I don't think I'd enjoy his style as much if he were the regular artist, but as a fill-in, it does very well. (And, on a personal level, Paniry draws the best Brooklyn we're seen in the comics thus far; as Brooklyn's my favorite character, that's always a plus.) The colors are okay; sometimes they mesh well with the art, other times not so much.
-Hudson was awesome in this issue. In his own way, he's mingling and breaking down prejudice just as much as the gargs at the party. And he's such a grandfather at heart, he's great with the kids. You wonder how much Robbins suspects; it was nice to see him and Gilly again.
-I love Angela's anger with Elisa. (Also love her excuse to the boys: "Girl talk!" Hee! So true.) It's appropriate and in-character; Angela, more than anyone, knows what Elisa and Goliath feel for each other, and she's very protective of her father.
-If/when the clones shake off Thailog's control, my money's on Brentwood being the first to break free; he repeats "free will" after Maggie says it (possibly in a thoughtful tone--can't know without a voice actor), and when Owen and Goliath debate Delilah's free will, Brentwood is in the background watching them. I wonder if, like in the real clan where Lex is probably the most naturally academically brilliant of the clan, Brentwood is the sharpest of the clones. He certainly speaks much more than anyone else.
-Poor Brook. I think he meant his "no point" in a different way than Angela took it; I think he was thinking of his dateless status.
-Loved Fox holding the fox-head masquerade mini-mask. Nice touch.
-Goliath's resounding "NO!" to Roebling's "So this is Demona?" is amusing, as is Delilah's response and Roebling's face. Roebling's question doesn't make much sense to me, though, as he officiated at David and Fox's wedding and has already met Demona. Also loved Roebling scampering out of there when he felt the tension between the two couples. He's fun here.
-"Post-modern tinman." HAH. Oh, Margot. Such a yuppie.
-I actually liked Angela and Brook's little moment. Angela is very much the "mother" of the clan; in addition to being protective of her father, she knows what to say to a guy when he's down in the dumps to make him feel better. Goliath might be the clan's soul, and Brook/Lex its brains, but Angela's its heart.
-I generally don't care for Thailog, but I did like his "Haven't had a good maniacal laugh in weeks" line.
-Morgan's pretty clueless about romance. I mean, he put the pieces together, but if I were Elisa, I'd be thinking that (even unintentionally) rubbing her nose in a painful, awkward breakup isn't the way to win a girl. Props to him for trying to chat to Delilah, though. Poor them! Nice moment there. He's a nice guy.
-Ah, little Terry Chung, nice to meet you....
-Maggie's come a long way from her first appearance. Like in KINGDOM, you see that she's not a fighter, but helps out in her own way. Too bad she gets a wall dumped on her for showing her newly developed backbone. You can tell Talon really loves her.
-I'm really curious as to what Brook's costume will be next issue. Probably Pepe LePew or some such, poor guy!
-Owen's free will question was interesting, and his point well-taken; if someone has free will, they have to be given a choice to decide what they want. (Although, if the clones were conditioned/manipulated to follow Thailog, that complicates that whole question.) Owen is much more practical than Goliath, as well; he realizes that, if nothing else, it will be impossible to hold Delilah/the clones if they really want to leave. What is the clan going to do, guard Delilah 24/7 as they guarded Demona? It's impractical. Goliath gets caught up in the principle of the matter (which is to his credit), but he doesn't always think through the details. That's more Brook's forte.
Overall, this is probably, to my way of thinking, the best issue of the comic to date. It seemed more pulled-together than the last issue, it's got very interesting storylines, the art compliments the story...definitely the best of the comic so far. Looking forward to #5 and seeing the resolution of this storyline!
Thanks. Me too.
AAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Thailog Stabbed Goliath!
Okay Okay, I had to start that way since I started my last review that way. No titles this time, we just jump straight into the story, which is cool with me. We've got Billy and Susan and a young Terry Chung (Which says to me that New Olympians is still a few years away, alas.)
BTW on a side note why does Billy and Susan's Mom let her kids dress up as convicted felons?
Hah! I figured that Hudson was off to see Robbins, and the panel with Gilly and Bronx lying by the fire just made me squeal with delight (where's Frank Welker when you need him?) It also make me wonder about that Adventure that you said that Bronx went on with Cagney during the events of Vendettas/Turf.
I think Robbins is going to figure out Hudson's little secret if he hasn't already.
Angela as Dorothy, quite apropriate symbolism there. Angela is still not quite used to New York life, (but she's learning fast)
I find it creepy that Lex is dressed exactly as he was in Puck's "Future Tense" world. I also get the feeling that I usually get when foreshadowing is involved...Or maybe I'm just paranoid. Yeah that's it.
"Move Girl" Talon yelled "Moving!" the [Labyrinth New Girl-Whose-Name-you-haven't-revealed-to-us-yet-which-isn't-a-big-deal-since-names-don't-matter-much-to-gargoyles] said moving out of the way hastily.
I'm not sure why, but that scene made me grin, and I gotta wonder, the clones may have been programed as 'robots', but they aren't. How did they feel turning on the Labyrinth residents who've been so good to them.
36-2. Something tells me we have a big-wig here.
BTW (Again) Elisa as Jasmine this year. Does Elisa just like the Disney Princesses? Going as Aurora next year? I think Elisa would make a nice Mulan.
Owen has his own army. Why am I not surprised ;)
And the Climactic moment...Thailog stabs Goliath. Will he make it to surise. (I thing that this marks the first moment that Goliath has actually bled since the pilot episode)
Can't wait for issue #5
Elisa does like Disney animated movies. At least she did in the 90s.
And kids dress up as all sorts of horrible things on Halloween.
I never managed to get my thoughts in on the last three issues- the first two because I didn't have much to say about a story I'd already seen, and the third because the queue closed before I had a chance. I thought about going back, but decided against it, so I'll turn in my opinions on issue 4 on day one.
Art: Hedgecock is credited as the penciler, but I'm told someone else was behind the art this issue? A little strange. I'm one of those who liked Hedgecock's art, mostly. This issue was a little strange, artwise. That's mainly in regard to crowd scenes- small scenes are still pretty good. I'm gonna go page by page now.
Billy and Susan: It took me a minute to realize it, but they're dressed as Jackal and Hyena. Terrific callback. They're trick-or-treating along with a kid dressed as a gargoyle. Their mom looks uncomfortably at the Quarreymen who walk past. No doubt she's afraid of what Castaway will think of a member escorting a gargoyle costumed child. The other boy is called Terry- more about that later.
The kids get goodies from Brooklyn and Freddie Krueger, and then, after complaining about bad masks, meet Hudson. Susan gets in Greg's "Nice mask" line.
Yay, Robbins! I love Robbins. He apparently didn't think Hudson was in costume- and, ironically, he's right.
On the next page, we arrive at the Eyrie Building and see a big crowd scene, and here's where the art looks weird. A lot of the people look like caricatures. Also, I swear that's Mace Malone in the front, but that's obviously impossible. And we get Margot chewing out Brendan (Quarters) again, allegedly for being "cliche." I wonder, though, if it's really because she just doesn't like gargoyles and doesn't want her husband dressed up as one. Those two have had an odd relationship with the gargoyles, but it often seems like they've never met them at all.
Oh, I love the gargoyles' costumes. Broadway is a fun Cowardly Lion, and Angela is absolutely adorable as Dorothy (with a stuffed Toto in her basket!). Lexington, though... it's a great costume, but downright disturbing in light of Future Tense.
Elisa seems to have a thing for Disney princesses. Jasmine, this time. The costume works well, I think, though it doesn't have any subtext I can see (unlike her Belle costume, which symbolized her relationship with Goliath). It is a little risque for a first date, I think- she might be sending Morgan the wrong message. And Morgan's Sherlock Holmes costume is nice, but the point, Morgan, is to dress as someone different from what you really are. So we ended up going with Morgan. While Jason and Elisa had more chemistry, if the point of seeing other people for Elisa to have a normal life, it wouldn't make much sense for her to go out with a convicted international terrorist. Also, I don't think he'd be able to leave house arrest, or whatever it is he's under. Meanwhile, Angela is pissed at Elisa. Protective of the big guy, isn't she.
Thailog: Awesome as always. I love the fact that he has individual teeth now. Also, he can deflect electricity, it seems.
Judge Roebling makes a surprising return, and he's one of the few who knows what Goliath really is.
Elisa and Delilah meet up for the first time, as well as Morgan and "G." Elisa seems pretty uncomfortable for a number of reasons.
Brooklyn is lonely as usual. Angela seems to be flirting with him. I'm sure she doesn't mean it, but she's sending the wrong message. And Broadway's seen eating a lot again. I didn't like Broadway's eating jokes at first, because it seems like that was all there was to him. Now, though, we know the guy well enough that it's okay for him to be gluttonous on occasion. Just please, never have him eat his hat again. Also, I wonder if the reason Angela left Broadway is because he's indulging himself so- his plateful is rather disgusting. I know she loves the lug, but that doesn't mean she can't get annoyed with him from time to time.
At the White House: First alarm is that we meet an "Ambassador Chung." Now she says her son "Terry" is back in New York trick-or-treating. We met a "Terry" at the beginning of the issue- could he be the future star of New Olympians? He's a little young for that, but I'm not sure when NO is set. Was one of the people on the Gargoyle Task Force also called "Chung?"
We see the family Xanatos again. I can't get over how cute Alex's costume is. Alex apparently has a favorite word: "Doggie!" Last time he said it was to Bronx, but now it's just random. It also seems he's growing a lot faster than one would expect, according to Chung. That makes sense, now that I think about it- he's too young to be saying any words at all. His grandmother's genes are showing in him. Also, a little subtle bit: Fox has a handheld mask that's the same as her tattoo. Seems rather pointless to me.
Xanatos meets with another Illuminatus. "Thirty-six. Two." Yikes. Looks like people were right, and the numbers are ranks. I find it a little artificial that all the people Hacker met last time were rank 36, but it's not completely implausible. This, then, is a very high-ranking member who probably is tasked with guiding the president to making decisions favorable to the society. I guess we'll find out more next time.
Thailog's fight with Claw looks great, but doesn't last long thanks to the clones. As I expected, once he showed up, they immediately snapped back into obedience. Thailog calls Maggie "Norma Rae." I considered that maybe Maggie was an alias and Sevarius had told Thailog her real name. I've since been told that it's a reference to something, but I don't get it.
Maggie gets herself hurt, and Derek jumps in to help. Yeah, he's not the brightest bulb in the box, but he's a good guy and doesn't lack for courage.
"Wow. Haven't had a good maniacal laugh in weeks." HAHAHA! Thailog is so great. I'm a little confused about one thing, though- in the close-up of his face, right before the maniacal laugh, it looks like he's wearing some sort of glasses or goggles. What that's about?
Derek stays with Maggie, and so Mysterious Unnamed Girl from last issue goes to warn Goliath. Hopefully we figure out her deal sooner or later- probably next issue, as part of the triumphant conclusion.
Elisa continues to be uncomfortable with Morgan, and leaves him to make small-talk with Delilah. Oh, I would love to see more of that conversation.
Goliath and Elisa have another heart-to-heart, only Elisa seems to have turned even more irrational. But hey, that's the way people are at times. She decides it was a "mistake" to go on a double date like this, "but it doesn't change anything." Bravo, Greg. I'd hate to go through all that drama last issue and then get over it so quickly. I hope we go some time before they finally admit to themselves that they're going to stay together forever.
Thailog drops in with more comedy, and Goliath just glares at him, rather than going over the top screaming. Goliath knew he was gonna come back sooner or later. But then Owen walks up, cool as ever, and demands the guns back. Because they were created by Xanatos Enterprises. He's still interested in recovering them from way back in Deadly Force. I briefly considered that he might turn into Puck. Were Alex in the castle, he could probably get away with it, but here it's unnecessary and probably impossible. It would also have confused new readers. Much better to have Owen simply being awesome as Owen.
Oh, dear, an army of commandos aiming at the gargoyles! It's not like they've ever beaten those before! It works, though, because Thailog is not afraid of them- he just doesn't want to take unnecessary risks with a fight. Another great line: "I have transcended any pleasure received from supervising the endless reconstruction of this castle." Yeah, haven't we all.
What I did not expect was Owen offering to turn Delilah over. However, he has no reason to feel loyalty to her. He also rightly points out that Goliath can't force her to stay unless he doesn't care about her right to make her own decisions. This, of course, is hampered by the fact that she may still be unable to make her own decisions. We'll see.
And then we end with Thailog absolutely owning Goliath. As soon as I saw the blade, I remembered the cover of issue 5, and I knew what was going to happen. You can't see the blade go in, but the look on G's face says it all. I don't know if he's ever taken such a vicious injury.
Great issue, except for a couple art problems. Are we going to have a massive gargoyle brawl in front of all of these people? That could put a serious damper on Xanatos's plan, as they'd have to realize that those were real gargoyles. We'll find out how all this ends come July!
THailog's weapons were designed to absorb and release electricity.
Elisa ordered her costume, assuming she'd be with Goliath. Then she changed her mind about that, but it was too late to get a new costume.
Just rent the movie "Norma Rae" and hopefully you'll get it. Or not.
Thailog's wearing a black domino mask.
First of all, SLG needs to do much better quality control. David Hedgecock got the credit for the pencils when this is Nir Paniry's work. I'll get to the art in a bit.
Sarah Browne is taking her kids, Billy and Susan trick or treating.... wow, I am stunned that she is letting her kids dress as a pair of convicted felons (Jackal and Hyena). We also meet a young Terry Chung, obviously the son of Ambassador Chung, who we meet later in the issue.
Good to see Jeffrey Robbins again, when Hudson mentioned that he and Bronx had a prior engagement, that's where I thought he was going. After all, who else does he know?
Margot is, as always, a bitch. How does Brendan Quarters (after all these years, we finally get a last name... and a very waspy sounding one, like his wife's).
The gargoyles' costumes. I laughed my ass off. Angela as Dorothy and Broadway as the Cowardly Lion. Why do I get the feeling both costumes were Angela's idea? Lexington... well, I should have seen that coming, but I didn't. Future Tense Lexington is back.
Elisa shows up as Princess Jasmine, and she looks good. Looks just like her. Does she always dress as Disney princesses? Morgan looks good as Sherlock Holmes, and he makes sense as Elisa's date.
Which brings me to Elisa's choice. For years, we didn't know if she was going to date Morgan or Jason for this story. I'll admit, I was rooting for Jason for a while, because he and Elisa always had chemistry. But, Morgan makes more sense. For one thing, Morgan has less baggage, and I'm glad we didn't get another big back story in this issue. For another, Jason not being in jail, or even a hospital under police guard so soon after "Hunter's Moon" would have defied believability.
Judge Roebling looks very animated. Obviously his attitude changed, considering last time he was mostly freaked out when he saw Goliath and Demona. I'm guessing he's had quite a bit to drink.
I am so glad that Elisa did not meet Delilah for the first time off camera. Her first face to face meeting with her clone is something we had to see for ourselves. Obviously she doesn't get down to the Labyrinth too often. Good scene, there's a difference between intellectually knowing something, and actually having to face it.
Poor Brooklyn, still thinks he has a chance with Angela. Can't wait to see his costume next issue.
Ah, the White House. We don't see the President, but I didn't expect us too. Saves us from having to see a generic President, and saves us from heavily dating this comic by depicting him as Bill Clinton. Ambassador Chung, I believe, is plannd to be a major character in the planned "New Olympians" spin-off, which shouldn't take place for a few years since Terry is obviously way too young at this point.
"Thirty-Six"/"Two"... HA! I figured this was a ranking system. Xanatos, Matt and Castaway are at the bottom of the pyramid, Hacker is higher up. Now, we meet someone near the top. And he's a butler. Usually you'd epxect it to be an advisor to the President, the Karl Rove equivilant. Nope, I like this. He's near the top, and not high profile at all.
Thailog is back, and he's having a good time. I love how he called Maggie "Norma Rae". Ten points to anyone who gets that joke. Here's a hint, "You like me, you really like me!" He's got a lot of fun lines in this comic.
Another peek at "New Girl in the Labyrinth", is she going to get a name any time soon? I'm getting a little tired of typing out "New Girl in the Labyrinth". Something is up with her, not sure what, but I'm definitely getting a vibe.
I feel so bad or Morgan. I know some people see Elisa as being out of character, I don't. But I still think she's behaving like a flakey bitch. I know she's scared, but dragging Morgan and Delilah into the middle of this thing with Goliath is really unfair. I'm hoping she pulls herself together soon, because she owes three people an apology. Angela is right to be pissed at her.
Owen is cool. Love how he has the Xanatos Corporate Guard ready for action at a moment's notice. I also like how just because Xanatos' ended his feud with the gargoyles doesn't mean that Owen, and by extension Xanatos, is their friend. He's perfectly willing to give up Delilah, because she's not worth the damage to the castle.
... yep, Thailog's armed to the teeth. I need to ask Greg how he planned to get away with this on television. Obviously, since this is a comic book, no one will bat an eye. But a stabbing on an animated series... would never fly.
Great story, a lot more focused than #3 which was all over the place (but I did enjoy it). I can't wait for #5, especially to see Karine and Steph doing the art (who, I think should have been doing the art for this book from the get go). And on that note, it brings me to...
...Nir's pencils. He's not a bad artist. He's definitely better at conveying emotion on the characters, and staging scenes than Hedgecock is. I hear he's a storyboard artist, so that makes sense. That being said, and I did not care much for the way he chose to stylize the characters.
Overall, good issue. #5 can't come soon enough.
I'm anxious to see the response to #5 as well.
My Review of Comic #3
I enjoyed some of the old characters make appearances.
1)'Nice Mask' - Is that a reference to a certain line spoken during Awakening Part 2?
Nice to know that Jeffery Robbins hasn't quite put together 2+2 in regards to Hudson yet. The line "we all wear masks" seems very appropriate.
It was nice to see our favorite bickering couple, but Margot not knowing what a cyborg is seems odd.
2)Is Angela's choice of clothing a reference to The Wizard of Oz?
Broadway sorta looks like Leo in his get-up, but I guess more importantly he looks like the Lion from Wizard of Oz. Elisa Maza as Princess Jasmine is something to think about. I'm sure that there's more symbolism behind that choice than I can think of at the moment.
It's nice to see the battle between Thailog, Talon, and Claw.
It's interesting that Judge Roebling remembers Goliath.
Elisa meet . . Deliliah.
3)Why are the guests seemingly try to make Alexander quite older than he is?
Ambassador Chung and Son Terry - that's a reference to future plans for New Olympians. Nice way to introduce references to them for future development.
4)if this question will be covered in the next issue of the comic, please ignore it: Who is David Xanatos speaking to in private?
5)Aside from David Xanatos hosting a party, is there any particular reason that Thailog chose this particular time to 'liberate' the clones?
Morgan talking to Deliliah. What could they possibly have in common to talk about?
It's nice to see that Owen was prepared for seemingly the worst. It's also nice to see Owen's diplomatic skills at work.
It was the worth the wait to see more future seeds for stories thrown out with this issue.
For the record, this actually seems to be a review of issue #4.
2. Um... yep... Angela as Dorothy. Broadway as the Cowardly Lion.
3. I'm not sure I understand the question. Alex looks older than he is.
4. See issue #5
5. I'll let the rest stand on it's own.
Just picked up a copy of Gargoyles #4. I'm pretty happy with it, but there were a couple of productions errors that I'm not-so-happy with.
First and foremost, the credits are in error. The interior of the book was pencilled and inked by guest artist Nir Paniry, not by our regular penciller David Hedgecock. I think Nir did a terrific job, and he deserves credit for his work. My apologies go out to both Nir and David.
Second, the Gargoyles logo and the title of the issue "Clan-Building Chapter Four: Masque" were somehow DROPPED off of page five of the book. (There are two empty black-spaces where they were supposed to go.) It's not as serious an error as the credit snafu, but it's something else that myself and the team regret.
We'll try to make sure that nothing like this happens again.