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I rewatched "Double Jeopardy" today - a few new thoughts.
Elisa's again driving along a lonely road by the coast, far from Manhattan, just as she'd done in the immediately preceding episode ("Revelations") - but this time, we know why she's out there (a warning about a power plant emergency - actually a hoax, courtesy of Thailog).
Broadway tells Elisa, as he and Lexington head off to Gen-U-Tech, "We're on the case". His way of phrasing it invokes again his interest in detective work (cf. "The Silver Falcon").
All the dates on Sevarius' video documentary about Thailog are written in the "British format" - i.e., "15 NOV", with the day first, then the month. Something you don't often see on American television.
Dates are hard.
I rewatched "Metamorphosis" today. A few things that struck me this time around.
When Derek and Elisa had their "Xanatos as the reincarnation of Snidely Whiplash" exchange, I thought "No, he's a lot more dangerous than that."
I noticed the pigeons clustered around Goliath just before he awakened; you'd think they'd be staying well away from the clock tower by now. (Though they do fly off in a hurry once the gargoyles wake up.)
I spotted a few animals in cages in Sevarius's lab that I don't think I'd noticed before, though I'm not certain what they were; they were too small to be jungle cats, and the wrong shape for bats.
I'd have to look at the episode again to see if I could remember what they were.
In the episode "The Cage" it's implied that the final scene where Sevarius is confronted by Talon and the Mutates to force a cure out of him, takes place at a Cyberbiotics lab. However, as the scene unfolds and different camera angles are shown, the electric eel tank with broken glass is shown, as well as the ceiling that the Gargoyles broke and escaped through with Maggie in "Metamorphosis". This leads me to believe that this final scene was a return to the original scene of the crime in the Gen-U-Tech building. Growing up watching this episode, I always thought of this scene taking place in the original Gen-U-Tech lab from "Metamorphosis." Are the holes in the ceiling and the eel tank just coinicidences, or was this final scene of "The Cage" intended to be at Gen-U-Tech rather than Cyberbiotics?
I'd have to watch it again, but my memory is that it all took place underground in the abandoned Cyberbiotics complex that later becomes the Labyrinth.
One thing that has bugged me for years is the situation between Xanatos and the Mutates, particularly in the case of Derek Maza/Talon. Neither Xanatos nor Sevarius ever faced any major repercussions for what they did in ruining the lives of so many good people. Particularly, David never got any comeuppance for experimenting on Elisaâs brother and using him as a means to exercise control over her. And Sevarius never seems to suffer an overwhelmingly devastating defeat, or get his just desserts. In the Bad Guys SLG comics continuation, Sevariusâ manipulations drives a woman, Tasha, to suicide and he just gets away with that. And while itâs amazing that Talon and Maggie were able to find some measure of happiness, and are starting a family together (as Dr. Sato confirmed Maggie was pregnant), it feels like justice hasnât really been served. One the one hand, in real life bad guys with money do get away with evil deeds all too often and in Gargoyles it makes for compelling, multilayered storytelling to have villains get away with it, but on the other hand it leaves a desire in the viewer to see some balancing of the scales. Itâs satisfying to see characters reap what they sow. My question is: do David Xanatos and Sevarius ever get their comeuppance for the Mutates situation? We saw in the show that Xanatos gets a comeuppance for Thailog, but does he get one for Talon? Does Sevarius get what he deserves for what he did to Tasha? Iâm a huge Gargoyles fan. It was the first show I watched as a kid and itâs still my favorite show today twenty years later. I look forward to rewatching it again when it launches on Disney+, and Iâm hoping, like many other fans, for a continuation on the platform; just like YJ has been continued on DC Universe. You must get this a lot, but thank you for creating a show that is an essential part of my childhood. I also enjoy Spectacular Spider-Man and YJ (canât wait till season 4), but they got nothing on Gargoyles.
Justice has indeed never been served. Whether it will or not in the future is a spoiler, and I've been spoiler-opposed for years now.
Am I missing anyone or adding someone incorrectly? So far Sevarius has the DNA of the following?
Goliath, Brooklyn, Angela, Broadway, Bronx, Lexington, Eliza, Hudson, Yama, Robyn Canmore, Dingo, Talon, Maggie, Fang, Claw, Wolf, Demona, Nessie, Deiliah (Mix)?
It's been a while since I saw the episodes. I guess he has Delilah, but then if you're including her, he'd also have Thailog, Burbank, Hollywood, Brentwood and Malibu. I guess he probably has Maggie, Fang, Claw and Wolf. But then I imagine he has Erin, Benny, Thug and Tasha, too.
Hello again Mr.Weisman! I'd just like to Say I'm one of the Lucky few Fans Who've just managed to Get the Graphic Novel Version of the Gargoyles: BAD GUYS series! And I LOVE IT! and Here are Some questions I Do Have for it if you Don't Mind!
1) I Don't Know if you Answered this Already, But Is there was reason why the 3rd issue was Drawn by a different Artist than the one who drew the Rest of the other Comics?
2)Since Dr. Sevarius works for Thailog Now at Nightstone Unlimited, Is it Possible That Thailog was IN or aware of Sevarius's Plan to turn everyonein Times Square on New Years Into mutants?
2. Anything's possible.
1. So I get the qualities Thailog inherited from Goliath and Xanatos but what do you think he got from Sevarius? Sorry if this is obvious but I just don't see it, is that why he might hold Sevarius in less regard than he does his other "fathers"?
2. Do you think Thailog holds Brentwood in more regard because he joined him of his own free will? Will he grant him more responsibilities like Xanatos does with Owen or will he get someone else to fulfill that role?
3. What does Thailog think about immortality? On the one hand I could see him being like Xanatos on the other I could see him adopt Nightstone Unlimited as a pseudo clan and achieve immortality that way maybe both? Great villain by the way so much like Xanatos and Goliath and yet so different at the same time.
1. He's a performer, but, yes, I think he holds Sevarius in less regard than his other fathers.
2. Shari fulfills the Owen role for Thailog. But we'll have to wait and see how Brentwood fares with him.
3. Not sure I'm following your reasoning here.
Something I have always wondered.
In the episode Metamorphesis before Anton supposedly dies, he appears to be in his 50s but when he makes his appearance again, he appears to be in his 30s.
Why is this?
Anton was - in his mind - playing a role. So he put on an accent and stage make-up to make him look like an older, madder scientist.
Why did Sevarius leave Gen-U-Tech for Nightstone Unlimited? Xanatos didn't want to lose him as a resource and he didn't become more ethical. Did Demona and Sevarius offer him more money? If so, isn't Xanatos rich enough to give Sevarius a raise? Did he decide to limit Sevarius' creative freedom? What happened?
I'll leave the answer to that to your interpretation.
I was wondering; is Anton Sevarious gay, or just incredibly hammy?
He's definitely the latter, and I don't know what that would have to do with the former. As to the former, NO SPOILERS.
I read the are Greg's answers etched in stone question in the FAQ and that got me thinking
#1 Are any answers absolutely set in stone
#2 Would you consider Retconing or Altering anything from the series (aside from the Goliath Chronicles)
1. If you mean here at ASK GREG, then no.
2. Anything canon, like the first 65 episodes or the 18 SLG issues, is fixed. Mistakes exist in there, but we try to just incorporate mistakes into the universe. Is Sevarius' name misspelled on his briefcase? Yes. But we assume that mistake happened "In Universe" and that Sevarius got a discount because of the error. Of course, some things that you think you know from watching the episodes may turn out to be not as they seemed. For example, if you thought the Archmage died at the end of "Long Way to Morning" you were wrong. But not because we contradicted what was in the episode, but because when you see "Avalon, Part Two" you are presented with more information that changes what you thought you saw.
1. In 'Double Jeopardy' Lexinton and Broadway view the tapes of Severius, detailing the creation of Thailog. (I'm being a bit specific in case some details have slipped your mind over the years) Anyway, Severious artfically aged Thailog to be the age of Goliath, but how did Severious know Goliaths age or did he just estimate?
2. Also in that tape, Severious mentioned how he managed to counter the 'slow aging process'. Goliath would later explain to Elsa that gargolyes age at 1/2 of humans, so once again, how did Severious know that?
3. If Thailog had been aged differently, say to the age of the Trio or Hudson, would that have affected his mind by much?
4. In Vows, Thailog and Macbeth meet for the first time and I do love Macbeths reaction. 'Who the blazes are you?!'. Did Macbeth react like that because he was put off by Thailog's resemblance to Golaith?
5. In that same scene, Thailog slips Macbeth a gun and allows him to escape. So I'm assuming that Macbeth was not entirely sure of Thailog's intentions, other than that it looked like he was double crossing Demona, but it has me thinking. Does Macbeth count Thailog as an alley, enemy, or just neutral?
1. He estimated, I suppose. But I also think it's possible that he had that information from Xanatos, who may have gotten in the past through Demona.
2. I don't remember this. Are you sure you heard that right? Because Thailog from this point on ages at a normal rate.
3. Too hypothetical to answer.
4. He was reacting to that, yes.
5. I think by the time Macbeth and Goliath were done comparing notes, Macbeth would regard Thailog at best as someone to be very wary of.
A few days ago I asked the question about Sevaris & his mutates, and I've been thinking about it, and why I like the idea of multi-animal-mutants as opposed to the single-animal variety.
And Ive decided the answer is this: because it just makes more sense.
I know the real-world reason you gave the Labryinth clan multi-animsl abilties is to make them equatable to Gargoyles...but it is the electric eel explaination that resonated w/me. Yes, a creature with that much going on WOULD need a massive energy source, and spending all day eating large farm animals wouldnt be condusive.
But this logic isnt applied to the latter mutates.
1) an alliagator (or was Thug a crockodile? Im drawing a blank - but either way) already needs to eat a lot, and due to its bulk is verry slow on land. Wouldnt an even bigger alligator need even more food - especially to power a human-sized brain - and be even slower?
2) Its been said that an insect the size of a human would collapse under its own weight due to their bodies being composed of heavy exoskelitons, and having no muscle mass, only tendonds to move their joints. Why does this not apply to the woodlouse mutate?
It seems to me that combining these two at least would solve both of their problems. The alligator DNA would provide the strength the woodlouse would need to move, and since insects requre little energy and move exeptionally fast (compared to larger animals that is, not literally), the woodlouse DNA would compensate for the alligator's problems.
Also, ARE there any plans to give the turtle (technically a tortious, I
belive) ninja training...maby from a mutant rat? (im just pulling your leg hete...sorry...I cant help myself).
1. Yes. Which is something Thug will have to deal with. Isn't that interesting?
2. "It's been said"? I'm not sure what that means. Obviously, Sevarius has made himself an expert in ways that I am not. I'm sure Benny will have what he needs for basic survival. But no one has said that these newly created mutates are going to be warriors. We'll just have to see. Hopefully. Someday.
Hello, Mr. Wiesman,
I have a quick question about Dr. Sevaris and his mutate craetions. First, I'd like to say that even as a child I loved the idea of "mutants" that were composed of several animal species (human, bat, cat, & eel), rather than the simple one animal/human hybrid, like the TMNTs.
I was just wondering why you deviated from that approach with every mutate Sevaris made after the Labyrinth clan?
Now Wolf I can understsnd, seeing as how he was the only willing volunteer, and well, his name is simply "Wolf."
But why simply an alligator mutant, a turtle mutant, a woodlouse mutant, & an armadillo mutant, when a combo of all those animals would lead to mare of a varity in abilities (exept a woodlouse and armadillo wpuld be a bit redundant), and not seem like something that has, literally, been done a dozen times - especially the turtle and aligator mutant in particular. As soon as I saw those two, I thought to myself: "they might as well learn ninjitsu and get it over with."
On a related topic; it's been shown that Dr. Sevaris uses human test subjects to create his mutates. But does he need the actual animal(s) they are mutated into and combine them, or just use that/those animal's DNA?
1. I think during his Labyrinth experiments, he was testing features first. Mixing and matching might come later. Keep in mind, that his marching orders from Xanatos on the original mutates were specifically to create something as close to a Gargoyle as possible.
2. He just needs DNA samples.
Very recently discovered Gargoyles and it's FANTASTIC! I mainlined the entire thing in about a month and can't wait to rewatch it. What an amazing story you told.
I had a question about Talon and the other Mutates. I've searched the archives and haven't been able to find the answer to this specific question, so I hope this isn't a repeat:
When Derek was originally transformed it made sense that he didn't want to go to the police because he still thought Xanatos was working to cure him. But once he realised that Xanatos was behind it all, I'm confused about why he didn't go to the police at THAT point?
I understand that they had come to accept their forms by then, but as a former police officer (even if he had some issues with it as a career for himself), I'm trying to work out why Talon wouldn't want to make the police aware of what had happened. The Mutates themselves are physical evidence of Sevarius' illegal experiments. Even if Xanatos was able to hide the financial trail so it wouldn't be possible to prove he'd been funding Sevarius while he was on the run, then at least the authorities would be after Sevarius?
My assumption is that Xanatos made some sort of report about Sevarius when he originally "discovered" his illegal work (though hiding the existence of the Mutates), so the authorities are already after him, albeit with limited and incorrect information. Without any way to prove Xanatos' ongoing connection, the Mutates decided not to press the matter as they were afraid of being turned into lab rats again if they "went public"?
Would that be accurate? It just surprised me because the show often did talk about police procedure and WHY Xanatos couldn't be charged with things, etc., or characters' motivations that this one's been bugging me.
Thank you for your thoughts, and looking forward to Star Wars: Rebels!
As you surmised...
1. The Mutates, collectively, don't want to become trapped in someone else's lab. Whether it's a government lab or that of another mad scientist.
2. Sevarius has already gone underground.
3. Xanatos covered his tracks.
Hi there Greg!
One thing I've always loved about Gargoyles is that the villains all have certain vulnerabilities and emotional sore spots. Xanatos with his family, and immortality and arrogance. Demona and her loneliness and denial. Etc.
Dr.Sevarius always seemed to be just be outright evil though. No empathy for anything, no emotional vulnerability, just a total mad scientist. In your mind, is there some emotional element to him that was undiscovered, and would you at all share what that may be? Not asking for any sort of story spoilers, just some general character insight!
"Mad"? I think he enjoyed playing the mad scientist, but I wouldn't think that would be a legally defensible position.
He enjoys money, science and drama, not necessarily in that order.
As to emotional elements, I'll leave that either to your interpretation or to future stories. But we've certainly seen his feelings hurt, if that counts.
I wrote this up on my blog last Christmas (a bit of a gift to myself there) and thought I'd share it here.
For every hero, or group of heroes, there must be villains. The villains test the hero, the villains make the hero. In the realm of superhero lore, Batman and Spider-Man have been cited as having the greatest rogues' galleries in comics. And I do not disagree. Sadly, other heroes or teams seem to come up lacking. Sure they may have one or two great villains, but the rest seem to be meh. The FF have Dr. Doom and Galactus, sure. The X-Men have Magneto and the Sentinels, Green Lantern has Sinestro, but the rest of their rogues galleries have always seemed, at least to me, to be okay at best. I know some will contest this opinion, but it's my opinion and as far as this blog goes, that's the one you're stuck with. Personally, I always thought the Third Great Rogues' Gallery belonged to "Gargoyles." So, let's honor them.
First of all, here's who didn't make the list and why:
Wolf - Nothing against Wolf, he's fun. He's a big dumb thug, but he's fun. But, as of yet, I haven't found him to be very interesting on his own. And I always thought his teammates were more interesting and fun to watch.
Tony Dracon - I like him a lot more than a lot of other "Gargoyles" fans seem to. He's usually fun, but he didn't quite have enough to make this list.
Oberon - I never thought of him as a villain, and I still don't. Even when he was trying to kidnap Alex. Did I agree with him? Not at all, but I don't think he was in the "legal" wrong either.
Robyn Canmore, Dingo, Matrix, Yama, and Fang - If you don't know why, shame on you.
Second of all, here's who I hope to add to the list some time:
Queen Mab - Come on Disney, let Greg do it!
Morgana le Fay - Ditto.
With that out of the way, let's dive into list.
20. Duval and Peredur fab Ragnal
At present, we've seen too little of these two to know much about them. But what we have seen has been enough to give us an intriguing mystery, especially if you've been following ASK GREG for the past fourteen years. They are the guiding hands of the Illuminati Society, which was created a century after the Fall of Camelot, by Sir Percival to "set things right." Which of these two men is Sir Percival? Well, I have my theories on that. Peredur fab Ragnal is the Welsh name for Percival, and Duval sounds like a modern alias for Percival as well. In fact, for years Greg Weisman told us that Percival was Duval, and then when the comic comes out we get Peredur. Following that, he said nothing changed from his original plan? So, who is Sir Percival, and what's the deal with the other guy? Again, I have my theories.
But I imagine that should new material ever come our way, one or both of these guys will shoot up on this list.
I also enjoy the idea of Duval being cybernetic, but I think he needs a bit of a re-design. Especially in what he wears.
19. The Banshee/Molly
The Banshee may have only been in one episode (with a cameo appearance in another), but damn did she leave an impression. Everything about this character was executed flawlessly. The character model, the animation, the voice, the effects! I loved how ghoulish she appeared, you could see the background through her.
It also helps that "The Hound of Ulster" is one of the best World Tour episodes. The script is tight, the animation is gorgeous, and a lot of the character actions are subtle and over the top when they need to be. Look at Molly's brief, brief exchange with Rory's father for the subtly, which contrasts the wonderful over the top performance as the Banshee.
This guy was a jerk. I mean, really. A paranoid tyrant who thought the world was out to get him. Well, not the world so much as his cousin, Macbeth. I suppose I can understand seeing Macbeth as a threat to the throne, but he just seemed to go out of his way to make Macbeth miserable. He reveled in it. When he died, we were all happy to see him bite it.
Batman has Joe Chill, and Spider-Man has the Burglar. Goliath has this Viking chieftain who massacred his clan. Well, Hakon may not have acted alone, but with the swing of his mace, the series really began. Like his descendant, Wolf, he's pretty one-note. But he plays that note masterfully.
But perhaps the better story isn't even the one where he shattered the clan, but the one where his vengeful spirit attempted to drive Goliath insane. That episode was the perfect send off for Hakon, even more so than falling off a cliff to his death. His angry, vengeful spirit was trapped alone at the bottom of a cavern for all of eternity without anyone or anything to hate. At least that's where I think he should have stayed. Hakon might have ranked higher if he didn't come back one last time in an episode that I thought was one of the show's only misfires. But hey, sixty-five episodes, eighteen comics, and only one misfire. You're still golden.
Now this guy is fun. I love his design, both as a gargoyle and as a robot. I love his Doc Ock-esque tentacles, and I loved Xander Berkeley in the role. Coldsteel is a manipulative jerk, and it's fun to watch him work. His favorite victim is usually Coldstone, and his goal remains unchanging… possess Coldfire. In a nutshell, he's a creepy stalker.
What's also fun is that he's had three voice actors, and not because Berkeley was unavailable. When he controlled Coldstone's body, he was played by Michael Dorn. When he possessed Brooklyn, he was voiced by Jeff Bennett. And they both did it without talking like their regular characters. Watch "Possession" again and listen to "Brooklyn" speak. It's obvious who is in the driver's seat.
I also enjoyed his appearance in the comics, working for Xanatos to distract our heroes from the theft of the Stone of Destiny. Where will he go from here? I'm not sure. I tend to think he works better when he's teaming up with other villains than acting on his own. Well, he did see potential in the Coyote robot, so maybe that's not over; one could see him working with Thailog too; perhaps even re-team with his rookery sister, Demona… they did get along quite well in "High Noon."
15. Constantine III
What can I say about this guy? He follows a long tradition of Disney tyrants, and is just as fun to watch as any of them. Sometimes I think the tenth and eleventh century villains are even more vicious than the modern day villains, and Contantine sums that up.
When we first meet this guy, he uses Finella, the woman who loves him, to lure King Kenneth (who is in love with her) out just so he can murder him in cold blood and take his crown. Then he casts her aside so he can marry Princess Katharine and better secure his claim to the throne. And he tries to keep in control with barely veiled threats against her charges. Harsh.
But even better than that is his return in the "Gargoyles" comic book where he's hunting down and murdering every gargoyle clan he can find, and trying to find Katharine and her friends. By now, he's been in power for two years and rules with an iron fist… which leads to a civil war. This guy is such a jerk that he even kills the messenger that the army of the Three Brothers sends. You never kill the messenger.
And then there was his rather creepy relationship with his new protégé, Gillecomgain, which led to the two inspiring each other in a very twisted ways. Constantine is inspired by Gillecomgain's scars to wear them as war paint in battle, and in turn, Constantine inspires Gillecomgain to become the Hunter. As if Gillecomgain needed any more inspiration. Which brings me to…
Let's face it, even as a kid, Gillecomgain had issues. Obviously there was a lot of darkness instilled in him by his father, who himself had some very understandable issues also. What did these issues lead to? One rogue gargoyle was going through their barn, and Gillecomgain pointed a pitchfork into the shadows to scare a thief only to get slashed across the face. What did THAT lead to? Arguably the events of the entire series.
Gillecomgain's life didn't get better. Constantine III took an interest in him which set him on the path of becoming a masked political assassin, not to mention his continued hunt for the demon that scarred him. Like dominos, this led to events that made Macbeth the man he is today, the Canmore clan what they became, and set the tone for centuries of hatred and pain. And all because of one scratch in a barn.
As a character himself, Gillecomgain stacks up well. There is a moment after his arranged marriage to Gruoch, who obviously doesn't love him, where you almost wonder if you should feel bad for a man whose wife obviously despises him. Then he crushes her rose underfoot. What does this mean? Here's a hint, Luach might not have been Macbeth's son. Powerful stuff.
13. Falstaff/John Oldcastle
Okay, this guy is fun. Him and his gang of LARPers gone bad. They appeared only in the final two issues of "Gargoyles: Bad Guys" but they made an impression. I loved the buildup Falstaff received. We see him take a young Harry Monmouth (who would grow up to become Dingo) under his wing. Train him to be a thief, and take pity on the poor boy after his mother ran out on him. Only for that shocker of a final page where we see Oldcastle with his hands wrapped around the throat of her already dead body.
I really love his gang. At first glance, they seem super human, but are in fact incredibly skilled. And I love that Oldcastle, maybe the world's greatest thief, named himself after Shakespeare's king of thieves. He looked the part, and just seemed to take so much joy in everything he did, and that helped make it a joy to watch him do it.
I hope we get more at some point, because I want to know more about him. Why did he murder Dingo's mom? And when did the Illuminati recruit him? Does he have any other responsibilities for the Society other than guarding their giant vault? Well, until next time, and I believe there will be a next time.
Of all the new characters introduced in the comic books, the most intriguing has to be Shari. Is she Thailog's new executive assistant, or does she own him? So far it seems to be a little bit of both. But I'm sure it's far more one than the other.
I love the narrative device of her storytelling, and I wonder where her knowledge comes from. Sure, she's a very high member of the Illuminati Society, but there are some things she just shouldn't know. And yet, she does. Like I said, she's intriguing. Now, I have my theories on who she really is, in fact I think it's so obvious, I almost wonder what the point of not revealing it was, aside from the fact that I can't see a place in the stories released to do it.
And as a final bit of trivia, Shari's look and basic design was inspired by stage actress and long time "Gargoyles" fan, Zehra Fazal. I've seen her perform on stage, and she is brilliant. She definitely deserved to be immortalized in "Gargoyles" canon in such a way.
11. The Archmage
Who would have thunk it? A one-shot villain if "Gargoyles" ever had one. You watch "Long Way to Morning" again, and you'd never think this guy would have become so important in the grand scheme of the series. Well, let's just say that David Warner kicks ass.
While I do write off his appearance in "Long Way to Morning" as 'obvious one shot villain,' he's still fun, even there. But I think what everybody remembers most is his turn as the villain in the "Avalon" triptych. I loved "Avalon Part Two." I thought the script was brilliant. I thought David Warner's dialogue with himself was tremendous. The entire endeavor was just wonderful.
Do I agree with the decision to kill him off? Absolutely. I don't think he would have had any staying power in the modern day material. The guy is a clichéd sorcerer, even if he's a very fun one. However, that doesn't mean I think the character is done entirely. There is plenty for him to do in a certain spin-off that takes place during the "Dark Ages." Or maybe even something to do if one were to TimeDance and have an encounter with him.
What can I say, I have a soft spot for this glorified toaster oven. At first glance he may seem like Ultron wearing half of Xanatos's skin, but the influence from Xanatos is evident. This robot has a sense of humor, sometimes even a perverse one. Granted it's not sentient or self-aware, but it almost seems close enough to fool you.
I love all the designs he goes through. They're all different, while at the same time reminding you of who you're looking at. But my favorite will always be the first one. I loved the look, I loved his perception-warping weapon the most. I wish he'd used it more often.
What's next for this character? Well, Greg has kept extremely tight-lipped. We know more upgrades are on the horizon, but come "Gargoyles 2198" … well, let's just say I think I know what the Xanatos of "Future Tense" was actually foreshadowing.
9. Jackal and Hyena
The "Gargoyles Universe" is well known for their complex, complicated villains. But sometimes, it's nice to just cut loose. Enter the sociopathic Jackal; and his twin sister, the psychotic Hyena and we're in for a good time whenever they show up. These two will crack you up one moment and then make you sick the next.
The first time they appeared, they didn't seem THAT bad. Then, come their second appearance, you have Hyena nearly slicing a fan's face up, and smiling when she gets arrested. Following that, we have Hyena falling in love with a robot. And then, after that, the two volunteer to trade in their body parts for cybernetic implants. Frankly, it's rather sick.
Jackal almost seems normal when you compare him to Hyena. "Normal" being very relative, until we get to "Grief" where he becomes the avatar of Anubis, giving him power over life and death, and what does he do? He decides he wants to end all life on Earth. Yeah….
I'm glad these two are close siblings, because they deserve each other. Still, whatever else they are, they're very fun bad guys. Hell, even a friend of mine named his gold colored Aztek after Hyena.
8. Anton Sevarius
Dr. Anton Sevarius earns points for being the creepiest villain we have encountered so far. He's even creepier than Jackal and Hyena! Sure, he's pretty much a hired gun, but the guy enjoys it. He revels in it. I can sum up Sevarius with one quote. After he was asked why he was doing this:
"For science, which as my associate Fang indicated, must ever move forward. Plus there's the money… and I do love the drama!"
This guy is only slightly more ethical than Dr. Mengele! And I also need to give a ton of credit to Tim Curry for really bringing this guy to life. Apparently, Brent Spiner was the first choice to voice Sevarius, but Curry got the role, and Spiner was cast as Puck. Thank god for those decisions.
Another moment that really stands out was when he was all over Angela in "Monsters." Does he have a sexual interest in her? I don't know, probably not. I think he just took pleasure in making her as uncomfortable as possible.
I think my other favorite Sevarius moment comes from "Double Jeopardy" where he thinks he's taking part in a Machiavellian scheme of Xanatos's and decides to act the part… very badly, I might add. So much fun, even when he makes you scream.
7. The Weird Sisters
Okay, let's get this out of the way. Silver haired Luna is the Sister of Fate; Raven haired Selene is the Sister of Vengeance; and Golden haired Phoebe is the Sister of Grace.
The Weird Sisters are, for the most part, a complete mystery. They have plans within plans that stretch through the centuries, after all what is time to them? They could even give Xanatos a run for his money. What is their agenda? Only they know. We've seen two thirds of the story, with Luna ascendant during "City of Stone" and Selene ascendant during "Avalon." But there is a missing piece, where does grace fall in their plans for Demona and Macbeth? Hopefully time will tell.
These three are great fun to watch. I love how they can be both nowhere and everywhere. And I love how they can and will take on different forms depending on who is looking at them at any given moment. Where do their loyalties lie? Well, it seems to be with Oberon, but I've long suspected there is something bigger at play with these three.
It would be easy to say they were plucked straight out of the Scottish Play, but in several folklores and mythologies, the Weird Sisters are present in some form. There is just something elemental and primeval about them. And that's part of what makes them a great element of the series.
Any woman who David Xanatos would marry would have to be cut from the same cloth he is, because anyone else would be beneath him. Fox is that woman. Hell, sometimes she gets the better of him, whether they're sparring in the dojo, or playing chess. And he doesn't resent this; it's just further proof that he's found the love of his life.
It's weird to watch her in "The Thrill of the Hunt" at times, because Wolf, Jackal, Hyena, and Dingo just seem so far beneath her, she almost seems out of place there. And yet, at the same time, the more we learn about her, the more it makes sense. When we meet Halcyon Renard, a huge piece of the puzzle is put into place. She was never a daddy's girl, in fact, quite the opposite. She was clearly motivated, for years, by just annoying her father. Maybe her mother too.
And I think it was just as much of a shock to her that she loved David. But I wonder what their relationship was like before her prison sentence? Obviously Xanatos made her a television star, but what else was going on there?
She was his lover and employee. And a trained mercenary, let's not forget that.
Like her husband, she grew and developed as the series progressed, and is every bit as interesting a character as he is. In fact, in an alternate universe, I wonder how the series would have played if Fox was in Xanatos's role from the get go.
Ah, the prodigal son… and he's a bastard. Literally.
I love this guy, he's just a hoot. Thailog is as powerful as Goliath, as brilliant and amoral as Xanatos, and as hammy and immoral as Sevarius. All at once. And it shows. In every single appearance, it shows. The guy is a walking Oedipus complex, what with his desire to prove his superiority to his fathers. I suppose one might say that he's already gotten the better of Sevarius, since he has the good doctor on his payroll. And while he outsmarted Xanatos once, I don't think he's done. Turning Nightstone Unlimited into a powerhouse to rival Xanatos Enterprises is obviously a means to this end. But what next?
I think my favorite thing about Thailog is that while he is a clone of Goliath, that's the last thing that comes to mind when I think about him. He's a fully developed character in his own right, and not simply Goliath's evil twin. On that note, I'm happy his coloring is different, because the last thing this show needs is an entire episode where the gargoyles try to figure out which one is the real Goliath.
And how can anyone not find that maniacal laugh of his to be anything but endearing?
4. John Castaway
John Castaway is a fascinating character, hell to crack the top five, he has to be. Castaway is a weak man, and at the heart of everything, a frightened child. Too weak to stand up to his brother and say "this is wrong" and too weak to admit he was wrong when he pulls the trigger and everything goes to Hell. I think the only thing that has changed is his support system.
Now that the gargoyles have been revealed to the world, Castaway represents a political movement who are moving against them. And it's rather frightening. Not for being a group of hooded thugs, they are not, but for being like a cross between the neighborhood watch, and a support group. Oh, there is a violent wing of the Quarrymen, we know that. But with Castaway's shrewdness, and the Illuminati's backing, I don't think he would do something stupid like fire anti-aircraft cannons in Manhattan, or hijack a train. No… because that would make Castaway much less difficult to defeat than he is. And even then, who says that happens? The Quarrymen are destined to be a problem for at least the next two hundred years, and like the Hunters before them, his descendents will lead the organization.
Keep in mind, we can all trace this back to a scratch in a barn in the tenth century.
Well, where do I start? Well, I suppose I will start by saying that I almost feel bad for putting him on this list at all. He has a strong sense of honor, if skewed. He's worked against our protagonists and with them. But, in the end I think the only side he's on is his own. While he is more of an ally now, that doesn't mean he hasn't been part of the problem before and won't be part of the problem again.
His story is terrific. Rather than follow the Scottish Play, the story we got was a loose adaptation of the true history of Macbeth and his reign over Scotland. Yes, we had Demona and gargoyles, and the Weird Sisters and sorcery, but we also had a history lesson unfolding, even if we didn't know it at the time. And it's terrific. To this day, it's my favorite tale in the entire mythos.
When we first meet him, the centuries have certainly taken their toll. He is not above attacking the gargoyles, taking hostages, and committing grand theft. And yet, we never once think of him as evil, despite doing some pretty unethical and amoral things. That changes with "City of Stone" when we learn his story and feel sorry for him. But at the same time, I think the perception among many fans has swung around too far. Yes, we understand him more now. But that wasn't his redemption. Far from it.
I think the tail end of "Sanctuary" and "Pendragon" is where the change begins, and I stress this, begins. In the former, he learned that he is still capable of love. In the latter, while some didn't quite get why he competed so violently against King Arthur for Excalibur, well, it always made sense to me. This is a man who has suffered so much, who viewed his existence as sad and endless, that he was looking for something to give it meaning and maybe justify every terrible thing that has ever happened to him. Being the new Once and Future King would serve that purpose, wouldn't it? Well, it doesn't quite work out for him, but over the course of the series we have seen this man go from suicidal renegade to a man who doesn't think life is completely worth living, and now seeks purpose in his existence. Did he look like a fool clutching that broken sword? Well, he was a broken man. And once you hit rock bottom, the healing can begin.
2. David Xanatos
He was designed to be a heroic character, and he was cast as the villain of the piece. That, right there, is what makes this character so brilliant. He has so many positive qualities, so many admirable traits. He's smart, he's cool, he's suave, he's practical, he knows his priorities, he doesn't sweat the small stuff, he doesn't hold a grudge; the titled heroes have more personality flaws than he does! But he is also incredibly ruthless, and while he's not evil, he is incredibly amoral. He seems to be the walking personification of Frederick Nietzsche's ubermensch when one stops to think about it. And he is awesome.
I am actually struggling here, what more can be said about David Xanatos that hasn't already been said? He's designed many tropes all by himself. There was never a villain like him in animation before, and even after he's left, there still has never been anyone quite like him. He doesn't surround himself with dimwitted henchmen and beat them up and scream when they fail. No, quite the opposite, he is always surrounded by incredibly competent people. His assistant and majordomo, Owen Burnett comes to mind. And he so rarely loses. In sixty-five episodes, and eighteen comics, I can count the number of actual losses on one hand. Aside from that, he always comes out on top. Always. But when he doesn't, he doesn't throw a fit and scream, he shrugs it off and moves on to the next plan. There are always contingencies. This guy is the coolest guy in the series.
His character arc throughout the series is brilliant. I love his rivalry with Goliath, and I love how he doesn't hate or even dislike Goliath. He likes Goliath a lot, admires him, and regards him with what I can best call a mix of interest and benign amusement. That's far more interesting than Megatron's hatred for Optimus Prime. And I really love how Goliath would often use the word "evil" to describe Xanatos. Sure, Xanatos has done some evil things, but Goliath's view of him for the longest time was very two-dimensional. It almost represents how most audiences, especially in animation, were trained to view the villain. No, Xanatos wasn't a Dark Lord, or a diabolical evil. He was simply a trickster. A human trickster.
While Xanatos and Goliath seem to have made some form of peace, that still didn't make Xanatos one of the good guys! I love that! In a way, he's still the enemy, and now the gargoyles are living with him, and they know it! He still has plans and schemes, and while he likes the gargoyles and helps them out, that doesn't stop him from manipulating them to his own ends, or even working against them. And best of all, as far as Xanatos is concerned: it's nothing personal.
I also have to give a ton of credit to the performance of Jonathan Frakes. He made Xanatos sound so sophisticated, fun, and erudite.
David Xanatos, he should run a seminar on villainy. Often imitated, never duplicated.
Demona is the clear number one on this list, for reasons both grounded and very esoteric at the same time. At the most minimal of glances, she seems very typical. We've seen genocidal human haters before. But scratch the surface, even a little, and we get the deepest creation of not only the series, but one of the deepest creations in the realm of fiction. I'm going to say this now, and roll your eyes all you want, but Demona would not be the slightest bit out of place in Russian literature. Or William Shakespeare's for that matter. I love this character.
Let's start with the surface elements first. She's got a terrific character design, and was so very well animated. Marina Sirtis deserves a tremendous amount of credit for the work she did bringing her to life. She embodied that character so completely that I never want to hear anyone else ever voice Demona on any animated project. No one can do it. Period. Hearing Marina Sirtis voice Demona was just as much of a revelation as hearing Mark Hamill's Joker. And I will stand by that statement even under threat of torture. She is also just such a badass! An intimidating warrior, an immortal, a sorceress, and she transforms into a human during the day! Hell, in both forms, she's pretty hot.
Now, for the esoteric. She has a guilt complex that makes Peter Parker's look tame by comparison, but she spreads it around to everyone else rather than internalize it. And considering how much she has to feel guilty over, this makes her arguably the most dangerous character in the series. She cannot accept her own culpability for the terrible things that happened to her, and for all intents and purposes, murdering her clan. She may not have swung the mace, but her ambition, her bigotry, and her cowardice put them in front of it.
Her favorite scapegoats are humanity as a whole, who make an easy and convenient target for her to project her guilt and self-loathing on. Now, does she have a point? Yes. Let's face it, humans can be bastards. We've done terrible things as a species. But, just as you cannot blame every Muslim for the attacks on September 11th, or every German for the Holocaust, Demona is wrong to blame every human for the terrible actions of a few. And at the end of the day, she was either directly or indirectly responsible for those actions. She betrayed her clan, and caused the massacre; she created the Hunter, and betrayed Macbeth. Demona created her own pain, and she intends to wipe out every man, woman, and child on the face of the Earth just to justify every damned stupid choice she ever made.
Despite all of that, she is an eternally conflicted character. She is not a one-dimensional cut-out. Deep inside, she knows she's wrong, she knows what she did. But she cannot and will not acknowledge that. And that's what makes her hatred for Elisa Maza so interesting. The one human she hates most is the one that has been a true friend to the gargoyles, because Elisa is living proof of just how wrong Demona really is. And the fact that Elisa and Goliath are now in love doesn't help considering Demona's lingering feelings of jealousy.
Of course, there is Demona's biological daughter, Angela. She is probably the one person Demona cares about in the world. My single biggest regret about the cancelation of the comic book is that we didn't get to see the two of them interact again. I am beyond curious to see where this goes. But one thing I am confident of, it's not heading towards a hysterically easy redemption. Nope, if we take the plan for the "Gargoyles 2198" spin-off seriously, and I most certainly do, Demona is still plotting against humanity long after Angela has died. Is it sad? Yes. Is it tragic? Yes. Is it Demona? Absolutely.
I also love how she is a walking mess of contradictions. Her belief system is based so much on lies she tells herself, that she will rationalize anything she can to fit her world view. Why? Because the alternative is admitting she is wrong, and right now, she will not do that. Cannot do that. Sadly for both her and Angela, I see tragedy in their future.
Demona's through line is one of the main reasons I am so desperate for "Gargoyles 2198" to be produced. I want to see how her story ends, and if it's going to end anywhere, it's in that spinoff. This is a story I am dying to see, and if Disney never produces it, well… one way or another I intend to find out what happens to her. What her ultimate fate is going to be. We know she'll have an epiphany of some kind. How does it happen? Why does it happen? What's the fallout? How does her story end?
Demona is an endlessly fascinating character. We've never seen anything like her in the realm of western animation before her debut, and I don't think she's been replicated since. Why? I don't know. But lightning has been caught in a bottle, and I am rather happy that no one has attempted to imitate this unique and perfectly conceived character but tragically flawed person.
What? No love for Bruno?
Why does Sevarius willingly work for Thailog after he previously attempted to kill the "good doctor?" Is he willing to forgive that for Thailog's money, or is there some fear involved?
No hard feelings. Sevarius follows the money. And the science. And the opportunity for drama.
These are about the Mutates and Sevarius.
1. What is Claw's real name?
2. How did Fang and Claw get involved with Sevarius?
3. How did Sevarius survive electrocution in "Her Brother's Keeper"?
1. SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.
2. They were homeless.
3. He was never electrocuted. It was all an act.
I'm gonna try and ask this really carefully because I don't want it to be a suggestion more than a question. I'm a bit curious about the relationship between Xanatos and Sevarius.
1. Did Sevarius really need Xanatos or just his money?
2. Did Sevarius just let Xanatos think he had control over the project?
Thanks in advance
1. Money and resources. Though I think Sevarius admired Xanatos to a certain extent.
2. I don't know what you mean. Which project?
I have a question concerning Savarious's appearance in Metamorphesis. I know that you've said in the past that he only made himself look like that generic mad scientist for the role he was hamming up and that the way he looked every other time was how he really looked. But my question is did he have that mad scientist look for all those months he was working with the mutates or would he go back to his regular looking self when not dealing with the mutates i.e. like when Elisa and att showed up to question him off camera did he switch back to his regular appearance?
I ask this because in the tapes regarding Thailogs gestation timeline he looks normal in all of them and the dates range (thanks to your timeline for some of this info) back all the way too Xanatoses release from jail. Plus I figure his coworkers might have wondered what the heck was goin on with him if he came to work at regular hours like that.
He didn't spend 24/7 in 'character'.
First and foremost, I probably should've looked more carefully when asking the previous question, and I'm sorry for that.
I've checked around the archives, and taken a better look, and haven't found an answer for this.
Sevarius stated once that if a Gargoyle didn't go through stone sleep, they would have to eat several cows in order to get the energy they need. Demona doesn't go through stone sleep anymore, so how does she get the energy she needs for when she becomes a gargoyle once more?
I'm not sure you're quoting Sevarius correctly, but in any case... magic compensates for Demona's lack of stone sleep.
I was wondering what country Sevarius is from? I checked the archives. Really, I did! The closest thing I could find was back in 1999 when someone asked you and you hadn't decided. So I hope there's a 10 year statute of limitations.
If you can't reveal what country he is from, do you recall what kind of accent you or voice director Jamie Thompson coached Tim Curry to adopt?
He's either American or British. I have no memory if we gave Tim any instructions on "accent".
I've enjoyed your use of discarded elements for the "behind-the-scenes" parts of "Gargoyles" in the comic book (such as Constance and Staghart's nicknames, or the Canmores' pursuit of Demona to the Parisian catacombs after Charles Canmore's death). But they give me one misgiving. Now I wonder - if we get more "Gargoyles" graphic novels, what horrible fate you might have in store for Owen?
(That's a rhetorical question, I hasten to add.)
Oh, the aardvark thing? (I had to think about it to remember what you were referring to.)
But given Sevarius' recent experiments... No promises.
So I've been lurking a bit, and I see folks are questioning the accessibility of the Gargoyles comics.
And I know I shouldn't do this, but I'm going to defend my own work here instead of just letting it stand on its own.
I totally reject the notion that the comics aren't accessible to new readers, unfamiliar with the GARGOYLES property. Now, granted Clan-Building, Volume II is pretty inaccessible IF you haven't read Clan-Building, Volume I. But in fairness to me, the Clan-Building arc is published in two volumes for commercial reasons, not creative ones. It's not two six-issue arcs; it's one twelve issue arc. So if you read Clan-Building in it's entirety OR if you read Bad Guys in it's entirety, I think both these arcs are extremely ACCESSIBLE.
And, yes, I've seen the reviews that claim that they're not. But I notice that those reviews are written by people who ARE passingly familiar with the cartoon and are making the ASSUMPTION that the books would be inaccessible to new readers. But I don't buy it. I've been doing this for a LONG time. And I know how to fill in my reader and/or viewer, introduce new concepts, etc.
Every issue in sequence introduces all the necessary information to a new reader that said reader would need. Does a reader benefit if they know all the backstory? Of course. But they don't have to know that backstory to enjoy the comic.
Let me take a specific example -- one that a reviewer specifically brought up. At the very end of issue #2 of Bad Guys, Sevarius appears. The reviewer (who knew exactly who Sevarius was) thought that I was blowing off new readers, because I gave NO backstory or introduction to Sevarius in that issue. But I'd argue that no introduction was necessary at that point. We've seen a mysterious figure descend into the Labyrinth, taser a guard, shed a disguise and confront Fang, claiming to know his real name and stating that he is Fang's "maker". That's ALL you need to know at that point as a new reader. It's perfectly okay if you DON'T know who this guy is. It's intriguing enough on that level. And in the very next issue (or chapter if you're reading the trade) Hunter gives all the backstory on Sevarius that you need to appreciate his role in issues/chapters #3 and #4. Yes, a hardcore fan is going to get extra juice when Sevarius pulls off his disguise because they'll recognize him. But even if Sevarius had been a brand new character, I wouldn't have handled his introduction any differently.
Look at Tasmanian Tiger. He is a new character. I hope he's at least a little bit intriguing. But is a new reader lost because they DON'T know that this is his first appearance? Readers, whether they are hardcore Garg fans or complete newbies, know as much about TT as they need to know -- and no more.
Yes, there are resources on the web -- BUT I don't count on those AT ALL, with one exception. And that exception is if people wonder why I'm ignoring Goliath Chronicles. And a new reader isn't even going to KNOW about Goliath Chronicles, so it's NOT an exception to him or her.
Otherwise, I use the tools I have within the book to explain what an audience needs to know. Someone familiar with the property may THINK the reader needs to know more, but I flat-out think they're wrong. My proof is anecdotal but it exists. I know people who've read the books and enjoyed them even though they never saw the show. Has it interested them in finding out more about the original series? Yes. And that's good and fine. But there's a difference between a new reader being intrigued and WANTING to learn more and a new reader being confused and NEEDING to know more to get what's going on.
You don't need to KNOW Brooklyn's entire history to know he's hurting because he can't get a date, to know he's pining for Angela and to know he's trying to get away from Angela and Broadway before chapter 10 of Clan-Building comes along -- and he's thrust into the past. Everything you NEED to know about him is present in issues 1-9. One benefits from knowing more, but that doesn't make it necessary to know more.
Of course, the greatest blockade to accessibility is the non-linear structure of chapters 7-9. But that's not property-based or familiarity-based, that's me using a non-traditional structure, which I might have done on an issue of, say, Captain Atom or Spider-Man or whatever. Hopefully, if a reader has read the first six chapters, they're intrigued enough to want to follow along despite the difficult structure.
Remember, issues 1 & 2 are designed to introduce you to the world of Gargoyles and any relevant information about said world. I got slammed by one reviewer for opening the comic book series with that adaptation of "The Journey", but I thought it was essential for new readers. One could argue fairly that each succeeding issue isn't as accessible as those first two, but complications and characters were added gradually through those first six issues. Anyone reading the book in order would not have been lost for a minute. If we hadn't been plagued by delays and late deliveries (which I had no control over and did not anticipate) it wouldn't have been the same kind of problem.
Any comic book or animated series that employs serialization and continuity is subject to these difficulties. And the middle chapter of any story (including a twelve-part story like Clan-Building or a six-part story like Redemption) can be tough to follow without having read the first few chapters. But just as I feel you can enjoy, say, "Leader of the Pack" without ever having seen any episodes from Season One of Gargoyles, I think Clan-Building can be enjoyed without having seen ANY of the Gargoyles TV series. Is the same true for "Avalon, Part Two" or "Avalon, Part Three"? No. But I think it IS true for "Avalon, Part One" and/or the three-part "Avalon" series when considered as a single unit.
My point is, I'm very familiar with the dilemma, and I know how to compensate. Or in any case, I'm VERY aware of the need to compensate. One can argue that I failed, I suppose. It does become subjective at some point. But nothing I did was done without very conscious thought on my part vis-a-vis the needs of a new reader. So any reviewer who claims that I didn't care or didn't try to make the book accessible is just -- well, wrong. And I think they are making assumptions based on THEIR knowledge of the richness of the property. They get all these resonances and call-backs, etc., and ASSUME a new reader would be lost without them. But you know what they say about the word "ASSUME". The resonances and call-backs are gravy. (And if you don't know they exist you won't know you're missing anything.) The meat, in my opinion, is all right there on the page.
When Thailog produces his new batch of clones will they be carbon copies of the Manhattan clan, or will he have Sevarius dabble about to mix and match, so he has clones that are mixed like Delilah?
Another issue I'm not completely clear on is why Xanatos and Sevarius parted ways(assuming they had). I never knew them to be on bad terms, except for the brief moment in "Double Jeopardy". Did Xanatos' moral changes have anything to do with it, or was there some other reason? Again, I apologize if this question had been done over and over. I never found any question quite matching the one I'm asking, or at least I don't think matches it.
I don't think they've totally parted ways. I just think Sevarius has gone freelance.
I know you weren't involved in the Goliath Chronicles and I do not wish to annoy you with questions from there that you couldn't possibly answer, but... in the episode Genesis Undone, Sevarius mentions having the middle name "Bartholomew". Do you consider this to be actually a part of his name?
Not particularly. But I don't object to it either.
Sorry, I meant Crocodile...not Crodile
Yeah, I got that.
Did Sevarius Mutate Thug with Alligator or Crodile DNA?
There were a number of scenes in this issue that just made me say, "Oh...my god."
The first one was, of course, the revelation of the "New Mutates." This is shocking, because we've seen at least three of them (Tasha, Benny, and Thug) as humans. It becomes even more shocking because of the nature of their mutations. The original Mutates, despite having six working limbs and enough eel DNA to channel electricity, don't seem anywhere near as strange as these four. Perhaps that's because their main body ("anthropomorphic big cats" if you will) is still...I don't know. Beautiful? Acceptable? My point is, in comparison what happened to these four seems even more outlandish and strange. Tasha at least is a mammal (albeit not a pretty one), but Thug is now reptilian, and so is Erin I think (a turtle with hair it looks like). But Benny's the weirdest out of all of them. HE'S A FRICKEN' INSECT! How the hell did Sevarius manage that? You know, it's strange--out of all the things I willingly suspend my disbelief for, this one takes the cake. Are insects even considered vertebrates? Still, if Sevarius can isolate and manipulate the genetic code for hexopodial limbs, I guess it's not too much of a stretch for him to do this, too.
The next shocking thing would seem to be the kids' reactions to their predicament--they don't seem that phased. Benny actually seems somewhat proud of being a "roly-poly bug." Erin is more interested in arguing with her brother.
The final shocking thing about this scene to me is...those are GREG'S KIDS! Good god, man! What did they do to you? ;-)
Of course, all of these shocks pale in comparison to the suicide. It's a very powerful scene (despite, or maybe because, we don't see the noose or anything). The shocked reactions of the squad (minus the largely emotionless Matrix), and the reactions of Thug and the kids are well done. Poor Benny can't hug Thug, so he goes into the wood louse version of a fetal position. As if they weren't traumatized enough--homeless, then mutated, now witness to a suicide. I ask again: Greg, what the HELL did your kids do to you?!
Unfortunately, "Fridge Logic"--what you think about after the fact, usually while looking through your fridge for a snack--leaves me wondering how exactly she hung herself.
At any rate, those were the big ones for me. The rest of my impressions will be listed, more or less in the order they occurred.
Fang takes out the robot with a double blast of both gun and electricity. Nice. I liked the "Gigantor" reference.
I love Fang's expression in the 4th panel of page 3. I knew that Fang would get a cliff-hanger, but I never thought the (apparent) threat would be from Yama. Given later (earlier) events, that resonates all the better, though.
"5 Days Ago." Wow...that doesn't sound like a lot of time in the grand scheme of things, does it?
Fang's line about sending Robyn packing "in pieces small enough to pack" made me go "Yikes!"
I wonder if Robyn quite took in the irony of her life being saved by a gargoyle.
I was tickled to get a confirmation that a gargoyle's sense of smell is better (or at least more sensitive) than a human's. Yama knows Fang isn't a gargoyle just by the scent. "Fish," eh? I wonder if that's from Fang's genetic make-up, or his diet.
I was a bit surprised when Yama's attack seemed to knock out Fang. Of course, it didn't.
Matrix and Dingo are fun! I found Matrix's line about "taking matters into my own nanobots" a rather interesting twist on the old phrase.
I'm ashamed to admit that I had forgotten that Sevarius knew Robyn previously.
It never occurred to me that the client Sevarius spoke of might be someone we knew until others mentioned the possibility. Whether it is or not, this new client has certainly helped the good doctor out--right down to apparently providing a lab with holding cells in New York's sewer system (how many "Labyrinths" do they have down there?).
As others have mentioned, we now know what motivates Sevarius: science, money, and...DRAMA!!!!! That last part actually becomes important to the plot, what with Sevarius's device set to go off at exactly midnight and no way to speed it up (much to Fang's annoyance). Of course, mutating all the people in times square, while dramatic, also seems a little...stupid. I mean, cameras are rolling, police are there..is no one REALLY going to notice thousands of people spontaneously mutating? But screw logic, this is...DRAMA!!!!!
He even numbers the carrier virus after the new year number (1997).
And now the term "gargate" is cannon. Sevarius wonders what would happen to a human mutated with gargate DNA, and vice versa...and I'm wondering how many of us, like Matt, have paused to consider that, over the years.
The reactions are intriguing. Robyn is disgusted (maybe even afraid?). No matter how she interacts with Yama, the old prejudice still has it's hold. Yama, on the other hand, just calmly inquires into the identity of the "donor." That surprised me--when it's a normal animal, nobody inquires beyond species, but with a sentient questions of identity arise. We learn the name of the gargoyle (and with it, one of the uses the samples are maybe being put towards), but Sevarius never mentions the human.
Dingo (wearing Matrix) saves the day! Hands up everyone who saw that coming.
Oh that Sevarius.... As soon as they left him in the cell, with that smug look on his face, I knew he'd escape somehow. Tasha immediately jumps on the idea that now Sevarius HAS to cure them. Poor lady....
Spot the cameo in Times Square! Naturally, we have Brendan and Margot. Tri Chung, and I guess his little brother Terry, are there as well. And Karine's roster of garg-fans.
I understood that Fang's electric attack reset Dingo's memory back a couple of seconds on the first incident. As if Dingo didn't need another reason to be wary of joining with Matrix.
"Damn drama." No, I will not get tired of every minor profanity that shows up in these books! Of course, the suicide will kind of steal the thunder....
"Flamin Gallah." We just don't use that insult enough.
Poor Dingo, though. His partner made a logical decision (and a good impression of the New Year's Ball) that left him in free fall. And even though Hunter saves him, his momentum is enough to swing him face-first into a wall. By the handkerchief a few panels later, I guess he got at least a bloody nose.
Love the Eyrie Building in the back ground.
Go Yama! I wonder how Fang's attacks hold up against Taro's electric fans.
I enjoyed the dicotomy between Fang's first reaction to Tasha's death, and his immediate switch to a joke (in extremely poor taste). A defense mechanism, I guess. Not a good one, since it nearly gets him beheaded. Fang's enthusiastic support of Dingo's "He's not worth it" line is in character and extremely funny. Hunter's reaction intrigued me the most, though. Her expression when Yama tries to kill Fang, and then her calming Yama down by...whispering something in his ear.
Great, as if "What the #$^& did Titania whisper" wasn't enough, now we've got "What the #$^& did Hunter whisper." You better answer ONE of those SOON, Greg! ;-)
Now Dingo gets some confirmation that Hunter isn't the top dog, after all. I wonder if her boss's interest in Thug and the kids was altruistic or pragmatic.
"Guess who made the team!" Fang almost seems like a high schooler who just made running back. The rest of the team seems less than thrilled, especially Yama (who's furious).
Good one. And definitely making use of the medium.
My kids chose the animals they wanted to be mutated into. I was both surprised and somewhat proud of their interesting and pragmatic choices. I built the armor theme around their choices.
The lab that Sevarius is using is part of the old Cyberbiotics complex. (It isn't called a labyrinth for nothing.)
And of course people would notice.
Terry and Tri are first cousins.
The answer to what Hunter whispered is (I think) so obvious in the context of the issue, that I'm NEVER going to reveal it.
Review of Bad Guys #4 Louse:
It's nice to see that Fang didn't desert. And Yama, the mountain. He's certainly as quiet as one. Not that Fang deserves any thanks see as he probably just decided he had a better chance of surviving the robot attack if he stuck with the Squad.
Then comes the flashback, picking up right where we left off. Are you sure Fang wasn't mutated with a possum? Cuz he plays dead like one.
I know what Dingo's thinking: "Why didn't Matrix pull off that trick hours ago?" ^_^
And four new mutates. Pretty damn scary. Though Im glad Benny and Erin were lightening things with their Roly-Poly/Pill-Bug debate. And it's even scarier to see Sevarius going to a larger scale of mutation.
Yama made me laugh, with how he wanted to know which gargoyle and human DNA Sevarius was playing with. Now I wonder two things:
(1) If he had Angela's DNA from the Loch, why didn't he clone her when Demon and Thailog were ordering clones of the Clan? Why mix Demon and Elisa when he had some Angela laying about?
(2) Who is the human DNA he has? My first thought was Elisa from when he got it on Halloween but I don't think he'd waste her DNA when Thailog seems to want it for something.
And, the Redemption Squad needs to think outside the box if they didn't think Sevarius would have a key to the lab and cells somewhere on his person. That would have been the first thing I looked for before I throw him into a cell.
It took me a little bit to realize that Fang's shocks were messing with Dingo's memory but I laughed out loud when the dots were finally connected.
Return to the lab to find Tasha. I knew how desperate she was when she kept begging Sevarius for a cure but that still chilled me.
And I gave Yama a standing ovation when he gut-punched Fang. I wanted to do so myself when he started his 'light bulb' joke.
A real eye-opening issue of Bad Guys. More Mutates, Fang on the team, Sevarius still at large with the knowledge of the mutating virus. This series is certianly keeping us on our toes!
1. Sevarius is not without plans of his own.
2. He wasn't using any of the DNA Thailog acquired.
I'm sure they searched Sevarius. It can't be THAT easy.
Whose DNA did Sevarius intend to mutate Yama with? I have a pretty good idea...but I just wanted to confirm.
Also, thanks for placing my review in "Wanted: Posters". It tickled me, and I got to show it the guys in my comic shop.
I'm not revealing this now.
Since Sevarius was the first person in the series heard to use the term "Gargate", did he, in fact, invent this term in the Gargoyles Universe?
"Coin" it might be more accurate.
Why does Sevarius make clones of the Manhattan Clan for Thailog in "The Reckoning" after Thailog tried to kill him along with Xanatos and Goliath in "Double Jeopardy?" In that episode, Thailog told Goliath he had decided to hate him as he hated Xanatos and Sevarius. Why would Thailog ask Sevarius to help him?
Thailog's smart enough to value an asset. And you can't trust everything Thailog says anyway; he's a bit of a performer.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Forty-five members of the Paris orchestra meet in the catacombs in full tuxedo to perform a concert.
Dr. Anton Sevarius recruits two homeless men off the streets of New York.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Edger Blosa dies in Prague.
Angela is imprisoned alongside Nessie, a Loch Ness Monster. That day Elisa Maza spots members of David Xanatos' Security Team resupplying in town. She follows them to Anton Sevarius' secret submarine dock. After nightfall, she returns with Goliath and Bronx, but all three are captured. Sevarius, who has informed Angela that she is Goliath's daughter, takes her along as he attempts to use Nessie to capture her mate Big Daddy in the Loch. Goliath and the others escape, and use a mini-submarine to foil Sevarius' plans. The monster-sub sinks along with every member of the Security Team, except their leader Bruno. The Loch Ness Monsters are reunited and set free.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Though the travelers have spent only the hours between sunrise and sunset on Avalon, days have passed in the real world. Goliath, Elisa Maza, Angela and Bronx depart Avalon and find themselves on Loch Ness, back in Scotland. Elisa attempts to leave a message with Matt Bluestone's answering machine, but his message tape is full and the message is not recorded. Later, their skiff is capsized by a Loch Ness Monster. In the confusion, Angela is captured by a monster-shaped submarine and brought back to Dr. Anton Sevarius, who runs DNA tests on her that prove she is the biological daughter of Goliath.
I have a short question about Derek/Talon. The feline DNA used to modify him was from a black panther. My question is, which kind of black panther? Panthers are not a separate species, but are only black forms of leopards and jaguars. Leopards and jaguars are the two species of big cat that exist in pure black forms in nature. In leopards the black genes are recessive, and in jaguars they are dominant.
So was Derek mutated using black leopard DNA, or black jaguar DNA?
I don't know. Is there an ASK ANTON feature somewhere?
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Edward the Confessor dies of natural causes. His brother-in-law, Harold Godwinson, succeeds him.
Goliath, Lexington, Bronx and Brooklyn return to Castle Wyvern atop the Eyrie Building but are intercepted by Elisa Maza, Hudson and Broadway, who finally manage to convince Goliath to follow Elisa to their new home at the Clock Tower above the 23rd Precinct -- but not before Goliath warns Owen Burnett that the clan will some day return. David Xanatos is finally released from jail that morning and returns to the castle. He starts serving his probation. Later that day, Xanatos goes to Gen-U-Tech Systems to observe Anton Sevarius' progress. Sevarius has successfully cloned Goliath and begins to accelerate the growth of "Thailog".
Hudson and the Trio have been searching for Goliath and Bronx to no avail. Broadway, realizing that Elisa Maza is missing too, brings her cat Cagney back to the Clock Tower. Brooklyn resists taking the reins of leadership, but he does go to visit Talon and Maggie the Cat in the Labyrinth, where homeless humans like Al, Chaz and Lou have joined the Mutates in what is supposed to be a free society of outcasts. Broadway visits Matt Bluestone next, but Matt is equally in the dark over his partner's disappearance. Lex eavesdrops on Elisa's parents and learns they are also worried. Meanwhile on Queen Florence Island, Elisa and the gargoyles find each other again, and then find Grandmother as she transforms into the Thunderbird. Grandmother later admits that she was undergoing these transformations to convince Natsilane to take up arms against Raven to save the island. When Natsilane meets the gargoyles, he is convinced. The gargoyles and Natsilane battle Raven and drive him away. With Raven gone, Grandmother is able to heal the island. The travelers again return to Avalon, where it is six in the morning, causing Goliath, Angela and Bronx to turn to stone.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Anton Sevarius begins to clone Goliath.
The Magus passes away inside the Hollow Hill.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath kidnaps Anton Sevarius out from under the nose of Gen-U-Tech security guard Vinnie Grigori. Goliath takes Sevarius down to the abandoned Cyberbiotics underground lab and tries to force him to create a cure for the Mutates. Meanwhile, the Mutates attack the other gargoyles at the Clock Tower. The gargoyles ultimately win the battle, but Brooklyn lets them go in order to prove to Maggie the Cat that he can be trusted. Having discovered that Goliath was the kidnapper, Elisa Maza, Talon, the Mutates, David Xanatos and his Steel Clan robots all converge on the old lab. Xanatos rescues Sevarius, and Talon finally realizes his employer was responsible for his metamorphosis. Talon and the other Mutates take up residence in the abandoned Cyberbiotics underground base, which they redub "The Labyrinth". The next morning, Vinnie is fired from Gen-U-Tech. And that evening, Elisa brings her parents and sister to the Labyrinth for a reunion with Derek and an introduction to the other Mutates. In Scotland, Xanatos' security team successfully captures "Nessie", a Loch Ness Monster. Sevarius leaves for Scotland, to begin running tests on the creature.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath and Broadway, who aren't in on Elisa Maza's undercover charade, follow her and come close to blowing her cover. She covers, however, and manages to get a meeting with Tony Dracon, where the two of them agree to go into business together with the gargoyles. The gargoyles and cops wind up foiling Dracon's operation and getting him to confess his transgressions on videotape. He's arrested and sent away. Goliath tastes jalapeñas for the first time. Later that morning, Elisa's sister Beth Maza comes into town from Arizona. That evening, while the Trio attend a rock concert in the park, Beth spots Talon watching the Maza family from outside Elisa's window. Later, Goliath admits that he has seen the Mutates back with David Xanatos. Elisa and Goliath confront Talon. Elisa reveals to her brother that Anton Sevarius isn't dead. Talon's extreme stance convinces Goliath to take drastic action.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
David Xanatos arrives at the oil rig with the ransom money. He confronts Anton Sevarius but quickly realizes Sevarius believes Xanatos himself is behind the scheme. It is soon revealed that Thailog has been playing everyone against each other from the beginning. He captures Sevarius, Xanatos, Goliath and Elisa Maza. All four escape, but Thailog is seemingly killed when the rig blows up. However, the next morning, Xanatos realizes Thailog escaped with the money.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa Maza, Broadway and Lexington are lured to Long Island after midnight by a false tip. They are assaulted by a creature that appears to be Goliath. That morning, mercenaries hired by Anton Sevarius steal a stone Thailog from David Xanatos. After sunset, they deliver their prize to Sevarius on an oil rig just off the coast of Long Island. Not long after, Elisa, Goliath, Broadway and Lex return to Long Island to investigate Goliath's mysterious look-alike. They find a Gen-U-Tech Systems tracking device. Meanwhile, Xanatos receives a ransom call demanding twenty million dollars in exchange for the creature. He and Owen Burnett quickly deduce that Sevarius is behind the gargoyle-napping. At Gen-U-Tech, Lexington and Broadway discover the truth about Goliath's clone Thailog. Meanwhile, in Scotland, Xanatos' security team begins searching for the Loch Ness Monster.
Well, there seems to be some confusion over what exactly is going on at Nightstone Unlimited. Maybe some of the confusion is intentional on your part to keep us guessing, but the fact that you were clarifying some facts at the GargWiki suggest to me that we are all not on the same page. So, in an attempt to figure out whats up, I have some questions. I'll totally understand if you won't/can't answer some/all of these. I wouldn't want to you to reveal anything before you are ready.
1. Okay, in "Hunter's Moon" it seemed pretty obvious that Ms. Destine was running Nightstone. No one was sure if Mr. Thailog had survived the Coney Island fire yet, so there is no issue here, I guess. My question is does Demona know as of "Invitation Only" that Thailog is alive? If so, when/how did she find out?
2. Was Nightstone Unlimited ALWAYS Thailog's and Demona only took it over when he was assumed dead?
3. Has Demona returned to Nightstone since "Hunter's Moon"?
4. Is Sevarius an employee of Nightstone now, or is he just doing occasional contract jobs for Thailog?
5. Has Sevarius heard from Demona since "Hunter's Moon"?
6. Is there anything else you feel like telling us about the whole Thailog/Demona Nightstone situation? Did Thailog and Demona have a prenup or something? The transition from their business to her business to his business is just kinda hard to figure out.
1. No comment.
2. Nightstone Unlimited belonged to both of them. Dominique never had Alexander Thailog declared deceased. Since no one ever saw the reclusive tycoon anyway, there didn't seem to be any point.
4. He's pulling in a salary.
5. Not that he's mentioned.
6. There's no transition, really. They jointly held/hold title. He vanished for a time, and she took sole control. Now she's vanished, and he's taken sole control. As for what the future holds... well, that would be telling.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Using the Phoenix Gate, Goliath, Demona, David Xanatos, Petros Xanatos and Fox come back in time from the year 1995. Demona immediately uses the Gate to disappear again. Xanatos saves the life of Princess Elena of Normandy. He is rewarded with a coin, which he gives to the Norman Ambassador, a fellow member of the Illuminati Society. The 1995 Goliath encounters the 975 Hudson. The 975 Demona is studying under the Archmage as his apprentice. He instructs her to steal the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena, which she does. But then she is confronted by the 1995 Demona and Goliath. After a brief trip for all three to 994, the 975 Demona returns them to her time and winds up on the outs with the Archmage. She breaks the Phoenix Gate in two and gives half of it to the 975 Goliath at the wedding of Malcolm and Elena. Meanwhile, all the 1995 participants return to their own time.
David Xanatos receives an anonymous gift of a medieval coin worth $20 grand. It is the start of his fortune, and was actually sent to David by his 1995 counterpart, via the Illuminati Society from the year 975.
A fully-grown Thailog is released from his maturation chamber and takes up residence at the Eyrie Building. Xanatos receives a letter from the Illuminati Society. It is from himself, sent in the year 975. It explains that he sent himself the medieval coin that was the basis of all his wealth. The letter also explains how he set this all up by turning his wedding to Fox into a time travel excursion to 975.
Xanatos gets a new assignment from Quincy and the Illuminati. Hudson confirms he is a gargoyle to Robbins. Thailog and the clones fight the Manhattan Clan. During the battle, Thailog gets DNA samples from Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Hudson and Bronx. Delilah, Malibu, Burbank and Hollywood reject Thailog, but Brentwood chooses to depart with him. Thailog gives the DNA to Sevarius and gains a new personal assistant, Shari. Doctor Sato treats Goliath. Goliath and Elisa declare their love for each other.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Reconstruction of the Eyrie Building's Castle is completed.
The Trio and Bronx fail to stop Demona from stealing the D/I-7. Worse yet, Goliath, Hudson and Angela are attacked by the Hunters. Angela is badly wounded. The gargoyles reconvene at the Clock Tower but are unsure if Angela will survive until dawn. Goliath vows vengeance on the Hunters. Elisa arrives just before sunrise and performs CPR, saving Angela's life. Later that morning, Dominique Destine introduces Robyn to Dr. Sevarius, who's created a carrier virus called CV-1000. Dominique places a sample of the virus in a vault beside the D/I-7, the Medici Tablet and the Praying Gargoyle. That night, Angela wakes from her stone sleep, healed. The gargoyles leave the Clock Tower to search for the Hunters. Elisa, having missed the Gargoyles, invites Jason to her loft for dinner. From her balcony, Goliath watches Jason and Elisa kiss. Angered, he, Brooklyn and Lex board the Hunter's craft alone. Once inside, they find Demona is also after the Hunters. All four gargoyles are captured, but allowed to escape.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The gargoyles and Elisa return to the Clock Tower, while back at the Eyrie Building, Xanatos and Sevarius, who had only faked his death, discuss the success of their plan. Later that day, the Metropolitan Museum of Art announces a forthcoming new medieval exhibit: "Titania's Treasures". Demona immediately begins planning to steal Titania's Mirror.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Derek's transformation continues. Goliath, Lexington and Brooklyn raid Gen-U-Tech to liberate an unwilling Maggie. Goliath appears to accidentally kill Sevarius, destroying Derek's chance for a cure.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Derek and Xanatos confront Sevarius at Gen-U-Tech. Sevarius reveals that he has been testing his mutagenic formula on three human test subjects. Xanatos threatens to shut down the project. Sevarius shoots Derek with a dart filled with the mutagen. Derek begins to mutate. Elisa and Matt question Sevarius but find nothing concrete.
Second, could Sevarius clone Bronx. And I know this next one sound's silly but if one was clone do you think he would be named after an area in Los Angeles.
He can now. As for the name... depends on the context, I guess.
could goliath and elisa have a child naturally with the help of science
Perhaps with a LOT of science... Sevarius-style.
For future entries, I'll use the name Galahad. I figure after two entries, I'm not really "New to the Club" anymore.
In a previous entry, Anonymous asked "Can a normal human and Gargoyle conceive children?" and you answered "Not unaided. Maybe not at all. I'm sure Sevarius might like to "help". Prospero too." I guess I can see why Sevarius might like to "help" a gargoyle and human concieve, being a crazy scientist and not worrying about the whole creating an abomination thing. Not that a human/gargoyle hybrid would neccesarily be an abomination. Delilah probably wouldn't appreciate a comment like that, huh? Anyway, why would Prospero want to help a human and Gargoyle concieve kids?
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Lex is bitten by a robotic mosquito that samples his DNA and then returns to Nightstone Unlimited, where Sevarius and Thailog are preparing clones of all the gargoyles.
Why did Sevarius switch his employment from Xanatos to Nightstone after Loch Ness? Given what Demona did with his virus, is he still at Nightstone at the time of the comic?
1. Best offer.
2. I'm not revealing that at this time. Be patient.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Demona starts Sevarius on a little side project: the creation of the carrier virus, CV-1000.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Demona and Thailog return to Manhattan and hire Dr. Sevarius away from Gen-U-Tech. Sevarius reveals that the female gargoyle that Demona saw in Paris is the biological child of her and Goliath.
"The Reckoning" is one of my favorite episodes, especially because of all the great stuff involving Demona and her very complex character. I especially love the scene where she frees the clan, imploring Goliath to "save their daughter!" There's one thing that has been confusing me that I was hoping you could clear up. When Demona is trying to stop Thailog from shooting Angela, he said that she knew she was her daughter before they staged her capture, and Angela is outraged because Demona knew the whole time. However, I missed how this could have happened. I have a much easier time believing that Demona was genuinely confused in Paris, and the next time she saw her was in "The Reckoning." It seems to me to be more logical that given the order of events, Demona did indeed find out about Angela being her daughter when she told her in the jail, as opposed to finding out beforehand. How did Demona know before they staged her capture?
Sevarius knew, remember (from "Monsters")? And Demona, Thailog and Sevarius planned "Reckoning"'s whole cloning thing together. SO... sometime between "Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning", Sevarius filled her in.
I recently read an article on Yahoo News (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=570&u=/nm/20021126/sc_nm/health_cloning_antinori_dc&printer1) describing how a doctor named Severino Antinori announced that a human clone was going to be born this January. I noticed the name seemed VERY simmilar to Anton Sevarius, and naturally my thoughts turned to Thailog. The article said the Italian doctor made headlines in 1994 for helping a 62 year old woman have a child. I was wondering if, in 1994, you saw those headlines and named the geneticist after this guy.
Nope. It is such an incredibly bizaare coincidence. As I've said before, many times, it freaks me out.
Did events such as Sevarius creating the mutates take place all around the globe instead of just in New York?
Why is Sevarius so freaken Crazy?
He's not Crazy. He's just nuts.
when cloning a gargoyle, is there any way to predict how the coloring will differ, is there any order to it or is it completly random coloring? i mean does Lex's parent or grandparent have the same coloring as Lex's clone or what?
The color differences, according to Sevarius, are a result of the forced growing procedure. If you clone a garg and allow it to age normally, the coloring should be the same.
I believe that the color changes are predictable. They tend toward the photo-negative, I think.
i have a suspicion that you'll prefer to keep the answers to these questions in mystery, but i'll ask anyway:
1. was the "cure" that Sevarius created in "Metamorphosis" an actual cure for the mutation?
2. was the "cure" that Sevarius created in "The Cage" an actual cure for the mutation?
3. will an actual "cure" for the mutation ever be created?
2. Not saying.
3. See above.
How is Servarius's name pronounced? I've heard Xanatos pronounce it like the ar is pronounced air (Ser-Vair-e-us) and Elisa pronounce it like the ar is pronounced like it rhymes with bar. Which is correct? (I like the way Elisa
says it personally, it sounds more evil)
I don't remember how Anton pronounced it?
I'm fine with either.
Okay, finally caught up on Ask Greg.
Greg writes: ""Anton" sounds Germanic?"
Anton was, at one time, an extremely popular boy's name in the Netherlands, in part because collaborators wanted to gain favor from their Nazi overlord, whose first name was Anton. Since the Dutch are a Germanic people, Anton could be considered quite Germanic. Admittedly, Sevarius doesn't *look* that old, except perhaps in his first appearance, but something to think about nevertheless.
Hmmm. Okay. But of course, there are plenty of people named Anton without any justification beyond "My parents just liked the name."
Time to ramble...
I think this episode had a fun story written and edited by Cary Bates. And I know it had a great moody storyboard directed by Frank Paur. But it suffered from two major problems...
1. Repetitive elements. We had multiple story editors working on multiple episodes. I was overseeing all of them, but sometimes things did get away from me. "Monsters" has a number of elements in common with "Heritage" which had only just preceeded it in the line up. It makes "Monsters" seem a bit more tired than it really is, through no fault of Cary's. For example, we open with a Sea Monster. One of our female cast members is lost and nearly drowned. Goliath searches frantically. Etc. Even my five-year-old son Benny was convinced, "We just saw this one." It just felt very been there done that. My fault.
2. Very weak animation -- some of the weakest of the series -- removed much of the mystery and mood from the boards that Frank directed. I know we called tons of retakes on this ep, but there was a limit. Secrets were given away too early. What's a monster submarine and what's a monster is too easily discernable at the start. We were hoping for more silhouette's in that murky Loch. Throw in some really atrocious character moments (like when Angela wakes up in chains) and you've got an ep that's unimpressive at best.
And yet, there's much in this show that I really like.
It takes an important step toward evolving Angela's relationship with Goliath. Though G's not aware of it, Sevarius reveals to Angela that she is his biological daughter. Having grown up around her adoptive *HUMAN* parents, that notion of biological imperative must have seeped in. She already KNEW that Goliath was one of her ROOKERY parents. But this revelation ignites her curiousity and need. I find it interesting anyway. My eight-year-old daughter Erin was likewise fascinated with this aspect. She was anxious for Angela to tell Goliath about her discovery. Of course, Goliath knows in a 'shrug' sense. It's visually obvious to him. It just isn't programmed to be significant for him.
And if that weren't enough to make the ep worthwhile, we also get another wonderful over-the-top performance from Tim Curry as Dr. Anton Sevarius. He has a TON of great lines in this (all quotations approximate)...
"If it gets any more sacharine in there, I'll have to shove a finger down my throat."
"It must be awful to wake up in chains first thing in the morning."
"Thank heaven for little girls... and DNA markers."
"He's your very own flesh and stone."
"Enough to make my mind boggle..."
But there were other problems too. In my mind and Cary's Big Daddy and Nessie were mates (with little ones revealed at the end). But because of the name "Big Daddy" and because we were intentionally using the L.N.Monsters to parallel and comment on Goliath and Angela's father-daughter relationship, many people thought that Big Daddy was Nessie's dad. I'm not sure it matters too much. But (unintentional) confusion can't help.
Elisa knows they haven't arrived in Manhattan because it's too quiet and because the water's too clean. Of course, Loch Ness is famous for having MURKY, MURKY water. Not that the water is "dirty" exactly, the way New York Harbor is. But it's hard to figure Elisa would think of the Loch as clean either. And I knew that. Don't know how that got by me.
But Elisa does have some fun lines here and there:
"I'm not really the adventuring type."
"It's a show... Themeparks do this five times a day."
(Yes, we weren't above giving a gentle knock to the parent company.)
(Of course, when Elisa said that last bit, Erin said, "I don't think so." Benny noticed the submarine was metal and thought it was a robot. It took him a while to get the notion that it was a ship or sub.)
LITTLE CONTINUITY TOUCHES
Elisa leaves a message on Matt's machine. But the tape is full. This was done for two reasons. Or three...
1. We felt that Elisa would and should attempt to contact someone.
2. We wanted to prolong the agony (at least in the audience's minds) as to what happened to our travelers from the point of view of those left behind.
3. We were in the middle of a tier, and couldn't guarantee (as we saw with "Kingdom" that the episode would air in order. We didn't want Elisa to successfully contact anyone, because it might screw up continuity.
Nice to see Brendan & Margot taking a little vacation on the Loch, huh?
Angela says to Nessie: "I bet you've never been this close to a real live gargoyle either." But of course Angela's wrong. One of the reasons that Nessie gets so friendly so fast with Angela is BECAUSE she recognizes her as a gargoyle and knows that gargoyles are friendly to the Monsters of the Loch.
Of course, this begs the question as to what the Loch Ness clan was doing throughout this little adventure. I don't have a grea answer -- YET -- but for now, I'm just going to fall back on the notion that they were aware that Nessie was missing, but didn't know the cause. (It is a big murky loch, after all.) And yes, I know that's a feeble explanation, but it will have to do until I figure out a better one.
The title "Monsters" is another one of my thematic one word titles. Angela hits the nail on the head when she calls Sevarius the only monster around here. It's central to the series theme. But again, maybe too obvious, contributing to the weakness of the episode.
We had some trouble with the animation of the scene where Bruno confronts Goliath and Elisa right after they escape the dungeon. It forced us to reuse Jeff Bennett's "All right." line twice in a row.
Speaking of Jeff, my wife Beth thought Bruno sounded very Jack Nicolson. I pointed out that when Bruno was created, way back in "Awakening" we asked Jeff to make him a young George C. Scott. Beth couldn't hear that at all.
Benny used to love Bruno. Not only does Bruno barely register with him now. He doesn't remember ever liking the character. Erin asked him if he remembered the Xanatos Goon Squad. He didn't respond.
Another weakness... Angela just holds her breath forever down there at the end.
And when Goliath does get there, her chains pop off too easily, begging the question why she couldn't free herself.
I know I keep talking about the ep's flaws. But like all the 66 chapters, I really am more fond of it than critical. I do love seeing Goliath launched as a living torpedo, for example. There are a bunch of little things that I like.
And heck, we killed off four more characters. Sevarius and Bruno survived. But I think we have to assume that the other four members of the Goon Squad are gone for good.
But it wasn't one of our best efforts, I'll have to admit.
Sorry 'bout that...
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
I saw an episode of Batman: the animated Series (not the future one) and saw a rather intresting episode which involved Catwoman being turned into a cat-woman and it also involved a genetically enginnered cat which looked like Talon oh and the worst thing was that the guy who did all this looked exactly Sevarius. Hmmm... i don't know when it was made but i wonder if they nicked the look of the guy from gargoyles. or perhaps everyone thinks made doctors look like red headed lab guys?
I think great minds think alike. But I think they were our way before we were. So although I don't think we copied them, they certainly didn't copy us.
In 2198 will we meet any of Sevarious' descendants?
If so, what will their name be, and what role would they play?
Not saying at this time.
Just out of curiousity(I hope to what ever god/dess that I spelled that right.) I was wondering why Sevarius did gene splicing to make the Mutates? I watched this thing on one of the educational channels and it said that humans have little bits of DNA from every animal in their DNA codes. So, why didn't Sevarius just activate the exsting genes in them? Or, did he by that gene splicing?
Well off to homework, "yeah".
Anyone with a scientific background want to field this? Come up with an explanation that justifies what we put into the show?
Be my guest.
This is The Cat, again. Ok, question. Why did Sevarius(hope I spelled that right) clone the other gargoyles?
How did he clone the male gargoyles? I only thought females could be cloned because we have the proper cells, such as the egg.
Well all for now. Bye.
Why? Because (a) he was well paid and (b) he likes that kinda thing.
As to the male-female thing, I'd never heard that.
What did Sevarius plan to do with the Loch Ness monster?
Harvest, breed, create, etc.
Why didn't Thailog and Demona clone Angela?
Demona didn't want a clone of Angela, she wanted Angela. So she never released a mosquito when Angela was guarding her cell. That meant that Thailog and Sevarius didn't have the option.
Shortly after Ask Greg stopped allowing questions to be submitted in August 2001, someone brought this news article to the attention of the Station 8 CR:
"Italian professor Severino Antinori ...are set to unveil their plans" (to clone a human)
Full article at: http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/08/06/clone.doctor/index.html
Is it a coincidence... or a prophecy?
I saw a report about that in the L.A. Times. Weirded me out, I'll tell you.
before he caught Angela, had Sevarius found any proof to support his theory of a garg clan living in Loch Ness?
if yes, what did he find?
No. Her presence generated that theory, as I recall.
Does Dr. Sevarius have any sort of public reputation (known in scientific circles, being published, etc.) or is he pretty much an unknown outside of Xanatos/Cyberbiotics/Nightstone?
He's semi-well known in certain circles.
1)At the fun house, when Goliath goes for help, why dosn't he bring Claw and Maggie. I know it's a pretty dumb question, but hey.
2a)Does Sevarius still work at Gen-u-tec, as well as at Nighstone. Does he still work for Xanatos, or do Xanatos new priorities require letting Sevarius go. b)Would Sevarius make somthing like Thailog ever agian? Was he as scared by him as Xanatos was? c) Is Thailog on much better terms with his father Sevarius, or would he still like to kill him if he lost his usefullness?
1. He doesn't have time to stop by BOTH the Clock Tower and the Labyrinth. If you were Goliath, where would you go? (Keep in mind that neither Claw or Maggie are really 'warriors born'.)
2a. As of when?
2b. Sevarius is not too big on common sense, I think.
2c. Thailog's not on great terms with any of his fathers.
Why did Sevarius rescue Fang from his prison in the Labyrinth?
How would they come in conflict with the Redemption Squad?
He was useful.
Hi there. I just found out some time ago that I love the show Gargoyles, although I have yet to see the last 13 eps.
Looking through this site, a lot of questions started coming to my mind. I have a lot, but they are pretty differnt amd it says I shouldn't post them all at once, so here is my first.
When Sevarius gives his genetics slide show, he said that gargoyles get the energy they need to fly by soking up solar energy while asleep. If he is right, how does this apply to gargs who turn to stone underground or if it's a cloudy day?
Are they more weak when they wake up, or was severius just incorrect?
Thanks, and once again, great show.
Sevarius was basically correct. But turning to stone underground one day isn't going to weaken a gargoyle perceptibly. If he or she is underground, day after day after day, that's a different story.
As to clouds... Ever gotten a sunburn on a hazy day? I have.
You know in the eposode "Metaphors" I think it is when Dr.Zervarious turns Derek Maza into a gargoyle and tries to fake a deth in front of Derek or Talon he gets electocuted how did he servive the peronas.
And if possible can you cantact me at firstname.lastname@example.org thanks.
No, I'm sorry. We have this forum for a reason. I don't personally contact people with answers. We want to share the info with everyone.
"Metamorphosis" not "Metaphors".
Sevarius not Zervarious.
Derek's turned into a Mutate not a gargoyle.
death not deth.
electrocuted not electocuted.
survive not servive.
piranhas not peronas.
And they were electric eels not piranhas.
contact not cantact.
(Sorry, to pick on you, Puck, but I'm a former English Teacher and Editor. At some point the quantity of typos and errors in such a short post overwhelms me. I'm not saying I never have them. But a little proof-reading would be nice.)
Anyway, it was all pre-arranged. The eels probably didn't have enough charge to kill anyone. (Frankly, it's a detail I'm not that interested in.)
What ethnicity is Sevarius? His first name sounds extremely Germanic, but I haven't a clue as to what his surname could be.
"Anton" sounds Germanic?
ok, i know you don't ever plan to reveal on-screen the biological relationship between Hudson and Broadway, but i was wondering, does Sevarius know? afterall, he discovered the link between Goliath and Angela looking at their DNA, so when he was creating the clones in "The Reckoning" did he see the father-son relationship between Hudson and Broadway? if he did, did he tell anyone about it? Thailog? Demona? Xanatos?
I suppose he knows. I'm just not sure to whom that information would be interesting. Still, someday...
did the Xanatos goon squad die when the sub sank at the end? we never saw them after that...
how did Sevarius survive? escape pod?
Bruno lived. But I figure the others went down.
Sevarius had a pod or something.
Oh, one other statement on "Metamorphosis":
The course of events leading up to Derek being accidently injected with the mutagenic formula seemed awkward. Was it Xanatos' plan to have Derek mutated? In a way it seems it was Derek's fate to be transformed since he asked to go with Xanatos, even though Xanatos said "That won't be necessary." But Derek insisted and ended up going for the ride.
What if Derek didn't go along or had never made an attempt to take the shot for Xanatos when Sevarius was going to shoot the mutagenic formula at him initially? Xanatos would have been hit with it and he would have mutated. That must have been one hell of a risk he took, not knowing that Derek might not come to his rescue. Seeing how the whole time Xanatos and Sevarius were allied and the whole thing seemed like a setup for Derek. But it still gets me as to why the things happened the way they did? For the story's sake in suppose. I at least would have expected Xanatos to scold Sevarius for almost shooting at him. Or is there something that I am missing?
You're missing Xanatos' basic rule for operation. Contingency plans for everything. Owen said what he said to GET Derek interested. If Derek hadn't volunteered, Xanatos would have asked him to come.
If Derek hadn't been heading for Xanatos, Sevarius would not have shot at that point. Sevarius was aiming for Derek, not Xanatos.
But every aspect of the plan was backed by contingencies.
Oh Greg the episode Metamorphisis was pretty cool the mutagen thing and all. Do you know in reality how they do gene transference between different organisms like the gene tranference between Derek and a panther, electric eel and bat. Viruses they insert genes into viruses and inject them into a creature where the viruses insert the foreign genes into the creatures DNA and it usually takes 5 months for the creature's DNA to accept the foreign genes as opposed to the 2 days in the episode Metamorphisis. Also there is also a high risk that the immune system would gobble up the mutagen plus the body also gets rid of cells that are mutated so in reality if a mad scientist ever injected you with a mutagen containing the DNA of animals your immune system would destroy the mutagen or the cells that has been mutated
Oh, sure. But, uh, Sevarius compensated for that with something that temporarily weakens the immune system.
Yeah, that's the ticket.
In "Monsters", was Sevarius working for Xanatos or himself when he was at Loch Ness? He had the Xanatos Goon Squad along with him to help him out, but nothing that he said really confirmed that he was working for Xanatos; he appeared to be after the Loch Ness Monsters more to satisfy his own personal interest in genetic tinkering than from any interests that Xanatos had.
For Xanatos, though X gave him fairly free reign to keep him happily employed.
After thinking about Basilisk's post regarding whether the mutates could be un-mutated, I have to disagree with his opinion that it would be impossible to undo the mutations. If Sevarius was able to replace the genes of his test subjects with samples of DNA from other animals, it should be fairly simple to reverse the process. Assuming he used some sort of retrovirus to replace the segments of Derek, Maggie, et al.'s original DNA with DNA from other animals. All he would need to do to change them back would be to use the same virus, only this time instead of giving it lion or eel DNA to insert give it a copy of the mutate's original human DNA. The point is that if Sevarius was able to alter their DNA in the first place, he could certainly alter it again.
The biggest problem would be finding a sample of the mutates' orginal, human DNA. When he created Talon, he replaced a significant portion of the DNA that coded for "Derek Maza" with DNA that coded for "panther" and other creatures. Finding the DNA he was going to use to create Talon was fairly easy, he just sampled it from a panther. But if he wanted to re-make Derek Maza, he would have to replace the DNA that codes for "panther" with DNA that codes for "Derek Maza." The problem is that there was only one source of "Derek Maza" DNA on earth: Derek Maza. And this source was destroyed when Sevarius overwrote Derek's original DNA in the mutation process. So unless an alternate source of "Derek Maza" DNA can be found (e.g. blood sample, hair sample from before the mutation) then it would be impossible to recreate Derek.
However, there could be one other option in the absence of a sample of the original DNA. The mutated DNA could be replaced with DNA from a human donor. Someone from the immediate family would probably be best. The effect would be to make the mutates human again, but not the same humans they were originally. For instance, Derek would have a human nose; but it would look like the nose of the DNA donor, not Derek's original nose.
Given this option, what do you think the mutates would choose? Would they decide to become human again, even if they couldn't be the same humans they were before the mutation? After all, unless their DNA is changed back to it's original state, they'll still be mutates. The only difference is that they'll be mutates who look like humans instead of mutates who look like gargoyles. So I guess the question is which species would they rather be an imitation of?
Well, my guess is Sevarius kept DNA samples of all the pre-Mutate humans. Probably got the samples for Fang, Claw, Maggie and wolf himself. And Derek's could have been acquired during a routine company physical.
I won't pretend to be the scientist Sevarius is. There may be multiple ways to turn them back or NONE at all. Personally, I like the ambiguity. And the fact that the one guy who might just be capable of it is completely untrustworthy.
Given all that, commenting on your specific scenario becomes a bit difficult.
I was wondering in what year did Sevarius start working on creating mutates.
You mean generally doing research or on specifically creating the four or five we know?
In _Outfoxed_, Renard mentions Anton Sevarius as being among the people whom Xanatos seduced from Cyberbiotics into His Dark Service (so to speak). I doubt he was right about Xanatos' corrupting influence -- anything -that- campy's gotta be natural. Still, I was surprised. Anton is, like, the last person I ever would've imagined Renard allowing to work for him. So... 1) How did the old codger get over Anton's obvious lack of ethics and more, erm, overt behavior? 2) Did Anton used to work in the Labyrinth way back when?
1. Anton can be sneaky if he wants to.
What's the deal with the security at Gen-U-Tech? Maggie the Cat managed to bust out in _Metamorphosis_, and she was a total softy. (b) ...Was her escape intentional? c) Did it (security) get upgraded after _Double Jeopardy_?
Yes, her escape was intentional. As Sevarius mentions at the end of the episode.
Security got upgraded after The Cage and after Double Jeopardy.
1a) What had Sevarius actually concocted at the end of "The Cage"? b) What would have happened to Maggie had she drunk it?
I like the ambiguity, so I'm not going to answer.
In the episode Metamorphisis Dr. Sevarius fires a dart containing mutagen at Xanatos but Derek got in front of Xanatos and the dart hit him instead. Even though Xanatos and Sevarius were just acting the scene to fool Derek so he will be turned into a bat winged panther man, my question is what would have happened if Derek never got in front of Xanatos in time and the dart containing the mutagen hit Xanatos instead of Derek? How would Xanatos respond to Sevarius if the dart hit him turning him into a mutate instead of Derek?
It wouldn't have hit Xanatos, because Sevarius was never really aiming at Xanatos. But past him, over his shoulder, more toward Derek. If Derek got himself anywhere in the vicinity, Sevarius would have made sure to nail him -- as he did.
After clones, mutates and superviruses, what on earth could Sevarius possibly cook up next?
How would Fang come to join the Redemption Squad: I mean, would he escape the Labyrinth first or have to be broken out, as in "THE RECKONING"?
Not telling. But it involves Sevarius.
How long did it take Sevarius to find the LMN?
Just read your "Metamorphosis" ramble. Thanks for it.
"Metamorphosis" is one of my favorite episodes - largely because of what I thought was a very effective ending (Elisa letting Xanatos have it verbally for what he did to Derek, then weeping back at the clock tower); I certainly agree with you that it made a great tragic close to the story. Elisa's weeping scene remains for me, to this day, one of my favorite "great moments" in "Gargoyles".
And I was certainly fooled by Xanatos the first time that I saw this episode. I actually believed him when he made it look as if he wanted to help Derek. In fact, when he refused to let Sevarius cage Derek, saying, "He's a man, not an animal", I practically gave him a mental standing ovation. And then, of course, when I discovered the truth at the end....
But it's interesting to note that I got fooled by Xanatos even AFTER I was familiar with his being the main villain in the series. I knew perfectly well what he was capable of, and yet still actually wanted to think that his concern for Derek was genuine.
Sevarius's apparent death also took me quite by surprise; even though I knew that "Gargoyles" wasn't a typical Disney cartoon, I was still staring at the scene where he apparently gets electrocuted and Xanatos announces his death, with an attitude of "They actually killed somebody in a Disney television cartoon?" (Of course, I must have forgotten about the Wyvern massacre, the fates of the Captain and Hakon, and even Elisa getting shot in "Deadly Force" - although she doesn't actually die there - at the time). Sevarius turning out to be alive at the end definitely astonished me as well.
I don't recall, on the other hand, what I thought at the time about Brooklyn and Maggie's sub-plot (I hadn't even realized, I might add, until after reading your memo, that that and Derek's part of the story both shared the "self-deception" theme, although it makes perfect sense to me now). I did sympathize a lot with Maggie, though; she gets mutated as almost a conscript for a war that she knew nothing about.
One last little note of interest: although you don't mention it in your ramble, Xanatos and Sevarius tell an additional lie that doesn't even get exposed as a lie until later on in the series, about not yet having any gargoyle genetic material to create a clone from. And then we discover in "Double Jeopardy" that they'd already created a clone (given that they got the blood sample from Goliath needed to create Thailog before the gargs even left the castle in "Enter Macbeth").
As for Sevarius's name: well, I think that it's kind of appropriate that it would sound cliched, given the way that the guy revels in cliches.
Yeah. Now I can't imagine him with any other name.
And by the way, we knew Sevarius and Xanatos were lying about the clone thing even then.
1) How old is he?
2) How did he escape from Loch Ness?
3) how did he discover the real existence of the Loch Ness Monster?
4) How did he intend to survive Demona's plague?
5) Did he ever KNOW about Demona's exact intentions on the plague?
6) how did he feel about working for Demona?
1. In his late forties.
2. You tell me.
3. Searched for it with high tech equipment 'til he found one.
4. He didn't know about it.
6. Her money's as good as anyone's. And she let him "create" to his heart's content.
Hi mr. Weisman!
In Metamorphosis, why Xanatos didn't provided Goliath's DNA to Sevarius?
He had already. That was a lie to help fool Derek. Thailog was already in the works.
Hello Greg, here's a question that was going though my mind.. Dr. Savarious, worked at many places... First Renards, than Xanatos, and later for Demona. Well we saw what Savarious did when he was working for Xanatos and Demona but what did he do for Renard at Cyber Robotics?
CyberBIOTICS. The BI is short for Biology. But the truth is he didn't do much there. Wasn't allowed to, shall we say, express himself. His later employers gave him much more -- and more twisted -- latitude.
STORY EDITOR: Michael Reaves
WRITERS: Brynne Chandler Reaves & Lydia Marano
The first appearance of Anton Sevarius and the MUTATES: Maggie the Cat, Fang and Claw. Derek had appeared before, but this was TALON's "first appearance" as well.
In our original development, the Talon character was called CATSCAN. He wasn't Elisa's brother. In fact, he was sorta Sevarius. That is, he was the scientist who created the mutagenic formula. At first he works for Xavier (Xanatos), but later -- when he realizes that Xavier was responsible for the "accident" that turned him into Catscan -- he tries to hunt Xanatos down, forcing Goliath to actually protect Xanatos in order to save Catscan's soul. This version of Catscan was basically the inspiration of my good friend Fred Schaefer, who was a Disney Development Associate at the time. Part of the team. Oh, and Catscan was a solo act, there were no other Mutates. And he didn't have wings either. He fired some kind of radiation bolt from his eyes.
Later, we began to prep Derek for the Catscan/Talon role. I don't remember if we knew Derek's fate way back in "Deadly Force", when he was introduced, but we definitely knew by "Her Brother's Keeper". One of the reasons we made him a pilot was to give him some flight background to justify how quickly we needed him to learn to fly. This was emphasized HERE by putting him in a glider.
Anton Sevarius became a separate character obviously. Michael Reaves, I believe, came up with his name. At first, I didn't like it. I thought it was too cartoony. Now I think it suits him.
Rereading my memo, it seems I was thinking of Brent Spiner to play Sevarius. I hadn't remembered that. Of course, no one else could be Sevarius except Tim Curry. And Brent was a perfect Puck for us too. So all's well that ends well. (But can you imagine if somehow the rolls had been switched?) Tim has some great lines here: "...Or has that changed?" is one of my favorites. He's so hungry.
FYI - That's Jonathan Frakes voicing Fang's one-liner in this episode. We couldn't afford to hire a separate actor for one line. So Jonathan stepped in. Of course, later Fang was taken over by Jim Belushi. But I don't think anyone noticed.
Gotta love the Snidely Whiplash reference.
As I mentioned in my last Ramble on "Leader", Xanatos' plans were getting more and more sophisticated. Here we had two humdingers in a row. The one in "Leader" is just a lot of fun. This one is cruel. Throughout the story, we (I think) tend to believe in Xanatos' mea culpa and his outrage regarding the Mutates ("They'll crucify you. And if they don't, I WILL!!"). Why? Because he's so darn likable we want to think well of him. (Who was fooled? I'd like to know.) Also his story rings true. When he tells Sevarius, "I've been in prison before." We know he has. We believe he could take it again. It's that touch of truth amid the lies that makes him so sharp.
And Owen was complicit. On one level, that shouldn't be surprising, yet there's something of the Mr. Spock about Owen. As faithful as you know he is, you don't actually expect him to lie.
And frankly, the plan is SO complex. I hope it's believable when all is said and done. We made a real effort to make sure that it could have worked, that if it hadn't gone EXACTLY as depicted it would feel like there would have been alternative scenarios that would have generated the same result. Of course the master-stroke is Sevarius' death. Our S&P executive raised an eyebrow over that, as she finished reading Act Two. Fortunately, she was the type who finished the script before knee-jerking us with an objection. We got away with depicting a violent death on-screen -- because it was fake. (But who was fooled?)
We tried to play fair with a number of clues throughout. We used Xanatos' own security team as the "hired mercenaries" that Sevarius was using. Only Xanatos checks Sevarius' pulse. When Matt and Elisa are later investigating the scene, there's no body and NO CHALK OUTLINE either. They have no idea that anyone even theoretically was supposed to have DIED there. And Sevarius is SO OVER THE TOP. That should have been a stylistic clue. It was way fun to do -- and it took great acting on Tim's part to act that badly and still make it play.
For once the script came in a tad short. So the board artist added the bit where the gargoyles break out of stone and we see the debris rain down on the people below. Pigeons fly off into the night. (Just a little touch of realism.) Very nice.
I was never too fond of Elisa's Zen Master joke. Still, in the comic book story I wrote before the Marvel comic book was cancelled, I created a Zen Master character. (Just compulsive I guess.)
My original plan for Gen-U-Tech was to abreviate its name as G.U.T.S. As in the company that twists yours up. (The full name is Genetic Undiscovered Technical Systems.) Instead it became Gen-U-Tech, which is probably better. But I can't remember who made the change. The script has plenty of GUTS references in the descriptions. But it may have escaped my notice that it has none in the dialogue. And the logos designed all read Gen-U-Tech, not guts. I wonder if Frank & Michael were slyly protecting me from a mis-step?
I like the conflict between Brooklyn & Broadway here. All the interplay with the trio is very well handled, I think. Were people really rooting for Brooklyn & Maggie to wind up together?
Not our best animated episode. Both the modeling and the animation leave a bit to be desired. Derek's ears look mid-transformation long before he's hit with that dart. Makes me cringe, but I guess if the audience isn't expecting him to get changed, they don't notice the subtle pointyness to the ears, until after the contents of the dart are revealed. But on a second viewing...?
Maggie Reed: "I'm from Ohio." As if that should explain EVERYTHING. I love that line.
"Morgan Reed", by the way, was one of our may early names for what eventually became Elisa Chavez, Elisa Bluestone and finally Elisa Maza. (I never waste anything.)
Observations from my daughter Erin:
1. "I like the click of their boots." [Erin complimenting the foley during the recapture of Maggie in the alley.]
2. "His hands ARE tied!" [My clever Erin catching the irony. Elisa says "My hands are tied." Brooklyn responds, "Well mine aren't." But then he turns to stone, prompting Erin's observation.]
3. "Hudson and Bronx always stay home." [Erin commenting on our proclivity for leaving Hudson & Bronx behind at the castle or clock tower when Goliath and the Trio go off. It is kind of a rip.]
Another great series of endings and false endings.
Xanatos tells Owen to bring him the "best geneticist on the planet."
The gargs arrive and fight the Mutates. Elisa arrives. Xanatos asks her to "stop this senseless violence". [Ahh, what a lovely bastard he is.]
Maggie makes the accurate observation that Brooklyn wants her to stay a monster. And yet despite that incite, she clearly still believes that both she and Brooklyn ARE monsters. She's as bound up in appearances as he is.
Talon names himself. It's kinda odd. But I think it works.
Elisa declares war on Xanatos. And for a split-second it registers on his face. Something has actually given him pause.
And then Owen brings in the best geneticist. I still wonder if it's immediately clear that this "new guy" IS Sevarius. He looks SO different. And Tim wasn't using the hoky accent anymore. Was anyone else confused, even momentarily? But anyway, it's another stunner Xanatos Tag. Did your eyes bug out? Or did you know by this time?
And finally, back to the Tower. Brooklyn is in a funk. But Elisa...
This entire episode is obviously a direct sequel to "Brother's Keeper". Right down to the end. In the end of that one, Elisa can do nothing but stare sadly out at the snow. But we're past that now. Now she cries. Xanatos doesn't wind up with the Mutates, though he correctly predicts there eventual return, but this is his clearest victory yet. The Mutates blame the gargs. Talon still believes X is his best chance at a cure. And he has an emotional and physical weapon against Elisa and the gargs. I was proud of us for ending a "cartoon" on such a relatively down note. Can't always have happy endings. How many people were surprised we ended it that way?
That's it. Comments welcome...
I recently re-viewed "Metamorphosis". Before typing up my ramble on the subject, here's an unedited look at the memo I wrote to story editor Michael Reaves in July, 1994 regarding Brynne & Lydia's first draft of their outline for the episode....
Notes on "Metamorphosis" Outline...
O.K. I made a few changes, as usual. Here's a bit of the reasoning, so they don't seem arbitrary. (I may be a pain to work with, but I try not to be arbitrary.)
The theme of today's adventure is SELF-DECEPTION. (We played the family theme in "Her Brother's Keeper". And since this is such a direct sequel to that one, I don't want to be playing the same emotional beats. That's not to say that "Family" isn't a secondary or tertiary theme running through this episode as well as our entire series, but we don't need to go out of our way to emphasize it here.) Derek is DECEIVED by Xanatos and Sevarius. But the deception would not have worked without Derek's own cooperation and SELF-DECEPTION. That's the tragedy. He's a victim, but he's helped to victimize himself, by fooling himself into believing that Xanatos was either a right guy or someone he could handle. But you can't play with fire without getting burned.
We'll reemphasize the theme with Xanatos himself, who will say that Sevarius fooled him and then admit that he really fooled himself, because he wanted to believe Sevarius. Of course this whole thing is an act on Xanatos' part, but it'll still reinforce the theme.
But as well as the above works, it unfortunately leaves our gargoyles as real fifth wheels to the story. So I've tossed in a little self-deception sub-plot for Brooklyn, as well.
ELISA & DEREK'S PARENTS
I've cut them. Partially out of economics. But mostly because they didn't seem to have much to say or do here. So I decided to keep our focus on Elisa & Derek.
ELISA & DEREK'S ARGUMENT
I'd rather not simply reiterate the conflict of "Her Brother's Keeper". In fact, I don't want to have to summon up the specific details of that episode. I think we should assume that in between the two seasons, Derek listened to Fox's taped "revelation" and that he and Elisa have already argued about it specifically. Now they are past that and in a mode of uneasy truce. He's talked himself into believing that Xanatos can't be that bad... or that if he is Derek'll find out for himself from the inside. Either way he can handle it. (Again: massive self-deception here.) Elisa has retreated to a "it's-your-life-but-don't-expect-me-to-approve" mode. They've agreed to disagree.
I think soliciting the homeless with a promise of money and food in exchange for being part of a scientific experiment is too slimy for even the self-deceiving Derek to swallow. Besides, it's not what he was hired to do. He's Xanatos' pilot and bodyguard. For these reasons, I've altered the set-up some.
Michael, this story really seemed to dovetail with what you suggested for a future story on the Homeless underground. MAGGIE and the homeless men seemed like great potential characters. So I've increased their role here. (Particularly Maggie's.) In some episode down the road, Derek can lead his "people" underground.
I don't want Xanatos to own Cyberbiotics. I don't have a specific idea in mind, but we might need a corporate opponent someday and I'd rather not have to create a new one. I've switched it to Genetic Undiscovered Technical Systems, also known as Gen-U-Tech or G.U.T.S., which I stuck into the bible a long time back. We never used it last season, so when it's first mentioned here, neither Elisa or Goliath will know that Xanatos owns it. I think it'll serve the same purpose.
Some of the actions that Matt and Elisa take seemed odd to me. Elisa allows Goliath to stop her from confronting Derek outside the building, but is intent on confronting him inside the building and is willing to bend the law to do it. I don't mind the bending so much as the inconsistency. Matt and Elisa talk their way by the guard, but then someone manning the cameras activates the security doors and gas. Who's manning the cameras? A different guard? Someone who wants Elisa to get through, but not Matt? The cameras must have seen that they got Matt but not her. I may be missing something, but I've made some changes to streamline this stuff.
THE PINKIE SWEAR
I don't think Derek would reveal his condition to his sister. Deep down, he must know that his self-deception has gotten him into this mess. He'd be ashamed of that and his monstrous appearance. He wouldn't initiate the pinkie swear at the end. Then again, neither would she with a monster she doesn't know. I love the pinkie swear, but I don't know if it can work here. What if in scene 2, Elisa's gesture is a more standard cross-my-heart thing, which Derek usually follows with some unique response like cross-my-eyes. Something silly that they've been doing since they were kids. Then at the end, she tries to talk to the monster; tries to inspire its trust with the standard cross-my-heart gesture. And before Derek can think about it, he automatically responds with his unique response.
THE MONSTER'S MIND
I don't think Xanatos ever wanted to destroy Derek's mind or make him amnesiatic, weak or easily controllable. That's more Demona's style. Xanatos has set up this whole con to manipulate Derek into serving him, as he did with Goliath in the pilot. He doesn't need Derek to be an automaton. He's already got robots. They haven't worked so great. He prefers having independent thinkers working for him. Like Owen, for example.
1. Open at NIGHT, with a shadowed DOCTOR SEVARIUS (Brent Spiner?) soliciting MAGGIE, the young homeless woman in the alley. Emphasize his limp. [No Derek involved.] Maybe give her a bit of dialogue. She's down on her luck. Lost her job, her apartment. It's a temporary set-back. (A bit of self deception here too.) She goes with him.
2. The next day at a small air field, ELISA is watching her brother DEREK land the new glider he just bought with the high salary that Xanatos pays him. They eat lunch at a hot dog stand. It's a bit awkward. But it's not Elisa's problem. It's Derek who clearly has a chip on his shoulder.
Derek: You're still mad I'm working for Xanatos. But he's not as bad as you think. And if he is, then I'll be right there on the inside to nail him.
Elisa: I think you're kidding yourself. But it's your life. Just don't expect me to agree with your decision.
They agree to disagree and do some equivalent to the pinkie swear thing. Something where she initiates the exchange with something more generic and he does something unique as an almost automatic response.
3. That night at the clock tower, the gargoyles split up to patrol the city they protect. BROOKLYN and BROADWAY are one team. They spot a shadowy creature on the ground. (It has wings, but it doesn't fly. Maybe the wings aren't fully developed yet.) For a second, the gargoyles think that it may be another gargoyle (perhaps Demona) and pursue it. The thing is clearly afraid of them and flees.
They finally catch up to it. We get a quick partial view. It's female! Maybe by the hair color and voice the audience guesses that it's Maggie. She is wearing a special bracelet, with a small light that blinks on and off and beeps quietly. Brooklyn is instantly smitten. (Maybe he thinks she's a gargoyle at first, maybe her shapely wings turn him on or something.) He says they aren't trying to hurt her but help.
Suddenly, they are surrounded by private "ambulances", out of which pour private "orderlies" (i.e. armed troops). (All of the above bare the GUTS logo.) The bracelet was a tracking device. Maggie is still more afraid of the gargoyles than the humans trying to take her back into custody. The troops are clearly surprised to see three creatures instead of one. The head guy says take them all. They pull out tranquilizer rifles and start shooting. Maggie tries to surrender. Brooklyn tries to stop her and accidentally pulls the bracelet off her wrist. He is shot by the tranq darts. It's all Broadway can do to get him safely out of there. The troops get away with Maggie.
4. At the Castle, Derek lands Xanatos' chopper and the two men disembark to find OWEN waiting for them. Owen's gotten some interesting expense reports from Gen-U-Tech Systems, one of Xanatos' subsidiaries. XANATOS isn't surprised. He gave Doctor Sevarius, the head of R & D there an interesting assignment. Would that assignment require armed mercenaries? No... it would not. Xanatos says he better check this out personally. Derek insists on coming along. (As a good bodyguard should.)
5. Back at the clock tower, Brooklyn is just coming out of it. Broadway has already filled Elisa and the other gargoyles in on what happened. But Brooklyn's version is slightly different. He's convinced himself (self-deception) that he made a real connection with the she-thing. She needs and wants his help. (Broadway's dubious. She was clearly more scared of them than of the goons.) Brooklyn shows Elisa the bracelet. (We know it's not tracking anymore because the light is busted and it no longer beeps.) She sees the G.U.T.S. logo. Brooklyn & Broadway remember the same logo being on the "ambulances". It means nothing to her, but she promises to check.
6. At Gen-U-Tech, Xanatos and Derek are greeted by Sevarius. Emphasize Sevarius' limp. He seems over-anxious, slightly paranoid. A bit of a mad scientist. Xanatos is playing it cool. He wants an update. Sevarius sits them down for a Jurassic Park style slide-show presentation. Xanatos had asked Sevarius to genetically create Gargoyles from scratch. (Derek is stunned. But keeps his cool and says nothing.)
As Sevarius explains his thought processes, we watch footage of Goliath battling a Steel Clan robot or Macbeth from the first season...
A. The logical decision would be to clone gargoyles from a gargoyle specimen.
1. But he was told that there was no specimen available. a. Sevarius, greedily: "Or has that changed?"
b. Xanatos says, no, it hasn't changed.
B. S: Well, then, in lieu of a direct clone he would have to build his gargoyle from scratch using available genetic material.
1. It would require the strength, speed and agility of a jungle cat (or maybe a bear? are there other options? Talk to Frank about what he wants to do? No wolf or other canines though.)
2. The wings of a bat.
a. Mutated to giant size.
3. Xanatos: "And the intelligence of a human being."
a. S: "Exactly."
C. But according to his calculations it still wouldn't work.
1. Animals are no different from machines.
a. They still require fuel to operate.
b. We get fuel by eating.
2. To keep its strength and stamina this thing would have to eat the equivalent of three cows a day.
3. X: Well then how do the gargoyles survive?
4. S: By hibernating as stone for 12 hours a day.
a. This allows them to store up energy and thus work at peak efficiency for the entire night.
b. The stone hibernation process is unknown in the animal kingdom. Sevarius had to find a substitute.
5. He presses a button revealing a glass case full of electric eels. The electric eels store and utilize myo-electric (bio-electric?) energy which could fuel the new creation.
Derek finally cuts in. This is all great theory (he's still deceiving himself into believing that these are two guys discussing hypotheticals), but why is Sevarius hiring armed mercenaries?
Sevarius seems sincerely embarrassed. He had to hire them. One of his test subjects escaped.
Xanatos and Derek simultaneously: WHAT?!! (Meaning: "You have test subjects?!!"
Sevarius misses point of their concern and says don't worry we caught her again. Look... And he presses a button that slides a panel revealing a glass wall revealing Maggie and two males now fully morphed into winged cat creatures. (Or whatever. Perhaps one looks Tiger-esque, one looks lionesque, etc., saving the coolest look for Derek. Again, ask Frank how he wants to go.)
On the reveal... we fade to black.
7. Pick up where we left off. Xanatos is stunned. Derek is horrified. Sevarius is giddy. (He seems like a border-line nut case throughout acts one and two.) Xanatos is astounded that Sevarius grew these things from scratch in such a short time.
Sevarius admits proudly that he took a shortcut. He injected bums with a mutagenic formula. Now Xanatos is horrified. And furious. Derek starts to turn on him, but Xanatos never intended for this to happen. "Sevarius deceived me. No. That's not entirely true. I deceived myself." He'd been warned about Sevarius' "unethical" practices, but he wanted to believe in the man, because he wanted to achieve his own goals. Xanatos is deeply ashamed of himself. But he's determined to make it better, cure these people.
Sevarius is astonished. He has no idea what he's done wrong. They were just bums. No friends. No family. He's made them into something better. He won't let Xanatos destroy all the progress he's made. He reaches for one of the tranquilizer guns that his troops used earlier, he takes aim at Xanatos and fires. Derek pushes Xanatos out of the way and takes the dart in the shoulder. He then quickly disarms Sevarius.
Derek and Xanatos examine the dart. A tranquilizer? Derek doesn't feel sleepy. Sevarius crumpled in the corner starts to laugh. The dart wasn't loaded with tranqs. It was loaded with the mutagenic formula.
8. Back at the precinct, Matt has tracked the GUTS logo to Gen-U-Tech. But he won't tell Elisa until he finds out why she needs to know. Elisa says she got an anonymous tip on a kidnapping. The bracelet was their only clue. She and Matt leave to investigate.
9. Back at Gen-U-Tech, Derek's still in shock. Xanatos demands to know if there's an antidote. Sevarius says there is one. Inside his head. He could create one, but why should he? Just then, a Gen-u-Tech guard comes in with word that the police are here. Xanatos gets very threatening: "By all means invite them in. Let's give them the slide show. Introduce them to the finished product.."
S: "You bankrolled all my experiments. You wouldn't dare."
X: "I'll take my chances. I've been in prison before. But you... The police, the press, the public... they're going to crucify you. And if they don't -- I will."
(The audience should believe that Xanatos was prepared to do anything to help Derek.)
Sevarius is very frightened and agrees to manufacture the antidote if Xanatos will agree not to turn him in. X agrees for now. But one more step out of line and it's over.
10. Downstairs, a very nervous and hinky Sevarius agrees to take Matt and Elisa on a brief tour of the facility to allay their preposterous suspicions of a kidnapping. At one point, Xanatos and Derek watch them from behind a one way mirror. Xanatos tells Derek that if he wants to step out and tell his sister everything, Xanatos would support that decision, even if it meant he had to go back to prison. But Derek decides not to. He'll give Sevarius a chance to come up with a cure first. But he tells Xanatos that if Sevarius can't cure him... If he turns into a freak like one of those others... Well, if that happens, he doesn't ever want Elisa to know.
11. Back at the clock tower, Elisa fills the gargoyles in. Sevarius was one hinky individual. She thinks Brooklyn may be right. But there's nothing she can do without evidence for a warrant. But Brooklyn's a private "citizen". He doesn't need a warrant. He's determined to help that she-thing and nothing's gonna stop him. Except the dawn. They turn to stone.
12. Back at Sevarius' lab, he's hard at work on the antidote serum. (He grouses about having Xanatos looking over his shoulder all the time.) In a shadowed corner, Derek cries out in pain. The transformation is beginning. (Though we don't see him clearly.) Sevarius suggests putting Derek in the glass prison with the other specimens. Xanatos just tells him to shut up and keep working.
13. Sunset at the clock tower. Brooklyn and the others explode out of their stone cocoons. Brooklyn's fire hasn't died out during their sleep. He's determined to go. Goliath agrees. But they'll do it his way.
14. At Gen-U-Tech, we find out what Goliath had in mind. Not a massive raid, but a surgical strike. Just himself, Brooklyn and Lex. (He needs Lex to work the security systems. He would have left Brook at home if he thought Brooklyn would have stayed put.) They get in all right, they even discover Maggie in her glass cage. But again she is more afraid of them, than of her captors. Brooklyn is determined to "save" her, and the ruckus they cause soon alerts Sevarius' guards. She is shot with a tranq dart. Brooklyn scoops her up and the gargoyles attempt to fight their way out. A battle through the complex begins, the guards switching to heavier weapons.
15. Meanwhile Sevarius has finished the serum and is about to inoculate a shadowed Derek. Unfortunately, the battle has moved in their direction. Derek is forced to battle the gargoyles to protect his chance at a cure. We reveal Derek as 50% mutated and already unrecognizable to Goliath and the others. In the struggle, the air-hypo with the serum falls and shatters. And then there is an explosion. Sevarius is thrown against the tank of electric eels and is electrocuted. He falls to the ground. Xanatos approaches. Checks for a pulse. He turns to Derek. Sevarius is dead.
16. Brooklyn, Lex and Goliath escape with the unconscious Maggie. Derek curses them, blaming them for ruining his chance at a cure. Then he collapses to the floor. Xanatos tries to snap him out of it. They have to get out of here before the police show up. Or does he want his sister to see him like this? Derek agrees to leave with Xanatos. But what about the other creatures? We'll bring them, poor souls. Somehow, some way we'll find a cure for all of you.
17. Back at the clock tower, Maggie awakens to find herself surrounded by six monsters...the gargoyles. Brooklyn tries to reassure her. She's safe now. But she's terrified. She unconsciously sparks off electrical energy that keeps Brook at a distance. Maggie doesn't want to be a monster, she just wants to be human again. Can they make her human again? Brooklyn doesn't know what to say. The sun is about to come up. The gargoyles will soon turn to stone. They tell Maggie to rest. (Hudson offers her the use of his t.v.) Goliath promises they will start searching for some kind of cure tomorrow night, even if it means confronting Xanatos in his castle.
18. Gen-U-Tech, daytime, but very foggy. Matt and Elisa are racking up the overtime, as they investigate last night's ruckus. No signs of the kidnapping victims. No signs of Sevarius. A lot of mangled high-tech equipment and weapons. And cages full of jungle cats, bats and eels. And the not-so-shocking discovery that Xanatos owns Gen-U-Tech.
19. Just after sunset at the clock tower. Brooklyn is bumming because Maggie has vanished. He's still not ready to admit that she doesn't want his help. She probably took off immediately after sunrise, when the fog-shrouded streets were still pretty empty. But where would she go? Xanatos' castle. That's where Goliath said they'd start their search for a cure. Hudson and Bronx will stay at the clock tower on the off chance she returns. Goliath and the trio will head to the castle.
20. At the castle, we find Xanatos telling Owen to find him the best geneticist on the planet, and fast. Outside in the wards, above the layer of fog, we find Derek, now fully transformed. He is teaching Maggie and the other two to glide. (They don't have a bat's natural instinct or the training that he has.) He's a natural if reluctant leader. Figures that until they find a cure they might as well learn to use their new abilities. (One of the guys should probably really enjoy flying. He's the only one not in a hurry to be cured. The other guy is mute, but with a saner more normal response.) Even Maggie seems a bit more at ease. She's now with people facing the same predicament, who are actively looking for a cure. Derek seems like a pillar of strength to lean on.
The Gargoyles arrive. Derek requires no prompting to lead his flying tigers on the attack. He beelines for Goliath. The other two males go after Lex and Broadway. But Brooklyn targets Maggie. He's determined to reach her. Air battle, complete with electricity. Somewhere in here Elisa arrives. Xanatos lets her in, hoping that somehow she can stop this pointless fighting.
Maggie battles Brooklyn, who doesn't really fight back. He tries again to tell her that he cares about her. You don't even know me, she says. The only thing they have in common is that they're both monsters. She doesn't want to be a monster. She hates monsters!! She gives him one massive zap to drive the message home.
Although Lex and Broadway are more than holding their own, Goliath isn't doing as well against Derek and is zapped into unconsciousness, falling across one of the outer battlements. Derek comes in for the kill. But Elisa is there. She doesn't recognize Derek, and for obvious reasons it never occurs to her that this is her brother. But she's never been one to judge by appearances, so she tries to talk to the creature, calmly. She asks its name. Derek laughs for a moment. Then looking at his own hands, he coins the name TALON. She tries to tell Talon that Goliath is her friend. Talon says that "her friend" is the reason Talon's been turned into a monster. Elisa says that if that's true, it must have been an accident. Goliath would never intentionally hurt anyone. She swears, cross-her-heart. And without thinking, he does the follow up gesture. She's stunned. (He's horrified.) It takes a moment to compute, but when it does... "Derek? Is that you?!" Derek denies it, but she knows now. "Xanatos. Somehow he did this to you?!" "No, he's my only chance at a cure." "Derek, how long are you going to grasp at that straw?! Deep down you must know who's to blame for this. Derek, let me help you!!" She moves towards him, but he can't face her. Because deep down he knows that he's to blame for his predicament. He goes screaming off into the night.
The other "cats" including Maggie don't know where Talon's going, but he's their leader. They follow. Broadway and Lex help Goliath and Brooklyn to their feet. Should they pursue the cats? But Brooklyn says no. He'd been kidding himself. He can't help her, particularly if she doesn't want his help.
Elisa faces off against Xanatos. He says he's been trying to help. But there's no way she's buying it. IT'S WAR NOW. Somehow, she's going to nail him. Count on it. Elisa and the gargoyles leave.
Owen enters. He's found the best geneticist on the planet that Xanatos was asking for. A man enters wearing a slouch hat and trench coat. With a flourish, he reveals himself as Sevarius. (Minus the cane, the limp, and the manic, paranoid, mad scientist demeanor. It was all a put on.) He's very proud of his performance, particularly his death scene, though Xanatos thought he hammed it up a bit. Still Sevarius is amazed they pulled it off. It took months of forcing the early subjects to "escape" until one of them was spotted by the gargoyles. For a while there he thought they'd never find each other. Yes, Xanatos agrees, but once the gargoyles did find the test subject things couldn't have proceeded more predictably. And Xanatos was right that Derek's particular abilities were well-suited to his new form. Sevarius is worried that they've lost Derek and the others. But Xanatos knows they'll be back. Talon has convinced himself that I'm his only chance at a cure. It's a delusion he can't afford to give up. Not without giving up all his hope as well.
21. Back at the castle, Brooklyn nurses his own wounds in bitter silence. But Goliath is more concerned about Elisa, who is also quiet, but crying bitter tears in spite of herself. It's not over, he tells her. No, she agrees, wiping her eyes. It's definitley not over.
I was thinking of the "Batman Beyond" episode entitled "Splicers," in which genetic mutation was the latest fad.
Is Sevarius the kind of "mad scientist" to alter his own genetic code?
If so, what kinds of changes would he make?
I doubt he'd do that. Bravery isn't his strong suit.
Well, I would first like to say how much I loved the show and wished it was still on. Anyhow, my question is a rather simple one. What was the doctor's name who Xanatos hired to make clones of Goliath? I think it is Dr. Gregarious or some thing like that and my friend disagrees. So, who is right?
Dr. Anton Sevarius.
And Lg00b1, I'm glad you loved the show. But you couldn't have checked the archives too hard before you posted this question. (I mean this is a question that could easily have been answered by 99% of the fandom in any comment or chat room.)
Now, I don't mind answering it. It doesn't take very long. But assuming your still around to read this, you waited three months to get an answer you could have gotten in three minutes. And if you've already got it. Then you did waste everyone's time.
I really don't mean to or want to pick on you personally. You just have the bad luck to be a perfect example...
People, please, if you want me to answer questions, it would really speed everything up if you at least checked the archive of the topic your question is about first.
End of tirade.
Hi again, just one quick question:
Before maggie was mutated we know she was living out on the streets with a bunch of bums and in all honesty she looked pretty messed up... if Gargoyles wasn't intended for kids, would you have made her be on drugs or an alcoholic or have some other kind of problems that people who live on the street very often have?
No. Not Maggie anyway. It has nothing to do with Gargoyles being for kids, by the way. (Compare what we did in "Deadly Force" for example.)
If I wanted to do a drug or alcohol story, I'd do one. I'd try to be very responsible about it. But in those days, I could do so-called controversial material. But I don't do it for the sake of doing it, I have to have a great story in mind.
Maggie wasn't about that. I don't know what might have happened to her down the road if she had stayed on the streets without Sevarius' not-so-benevolent intervention... but she probably would have eventually admitted defeat and called her parents to wire her busfare back to Ohio.
Her problem wasn't drugs or booze. It was naivete. In my mind, as I think I've mentioned before, she was a would-be actress who came to NYC with her life savings. Maybe a couple grand, which she went through ridiculously fast, thinking that any minute she'd be discovered and become a Broadway star!
At least, that's how I figured her.
This is my first time asking a question, although I've read your responses on and off for 2 years now.
I have never found any answer to this in the archives, so I figured I'd give it a shot.
1. Did David Xanatos actually choose to have Derek become a mutate? This is something I was never clear about...Yes, Xanatos and Sevarius were basically putting on an act for Derek, but was Sevarius shooting Derek with the formula come about as just part of the acting on the Mad Doctor's part, or was Sevarius told ahead of time by Xanatos to specifically inject Derek.
2. Another Metamorphisis question. If Sevarius is really not the old man with the cooky accent he portrayed in the beginning of that episode, why did he feel the need to dress up like one??? I ask because if it was to disguise himself so that after faking his death he could go about freely, well then it failed. Everyone reckgonized him immediatly, including Goliath and Derek. So why bother pretending to be an old man in the first place?
3. And how did Sevarius "pretend" to be electocuted to death by eels anyway??? Did he have some sort of insulated suit?
4. Another Metamorphisis question. (something about that episode) How did Maggie end up on the streets of New York anyway? Was she hooked on drugs? She looked very unhealthy, much like she was coming down off after being high.
5. Okay, this one isn't Metamorphisis related. And I don't recall this one being asked either, but it does concern the whole Time loop thing which has been discussed. How did the Archmage even know about Macbeth(and the older version of Demona for that matter). Why did he choose to perserve those particular two?
Thank you for your time
1. I'm not saying there was no ad libbing going on, but the evening went pretty much as Xanatos had planned.
2. He's a ham. He was having a good time. Weren't you?
3. He had something, obviously. Does it matter what?
4. I think Maggie came to New York to be a "STAR". She was tremendously naive. She probably had, like a thousand bucks, and figured that would last her the two or three months it would take before she was "discovered". Of course, a grand won't last you one month in Manhattan. Not if you don't know anyone that you can trust and not if you have no where to stay. I think she was rather quickly in desperate circumstances and living on the streets. She might very well have been sick, but no she hadn't been using drugs.
5. O.K. Per our new rules, since this is a new topic, you'll need to resubmit this question as a seperate post. Sorry.
Greetings, Greg! It's great to have this thing up again!! I HAD a lot of questions, but most got lost in the limbo that is my mind. So I'll stick with the ones I did remember, all of which deal with behind the scenes work.
1) What exactly do "Story Editors" do?
1b) What do "Producers/Supervising Producers" do?
(I know you filled both these positions at one time or another, which is why I think you'd have the best idea about it).
2) Tim Curry--I'm something of a fan of his. What was it like working with him?
2b) Any interesting stories about him or suchlike you'd be willing to share?
As I said, I HAD more, but...well, they'll come back to me sooner or later. At least now this thing's back up again (let's PRAY it stays that way!).
Once again, I'll attempt to recreate an answer I already typed up once.
First caveat: Keep in mind that every series, every studio, has
slightly different definitions for most of these terms. I'm describing
how we defined things, how we worked on Gargoyles.
1. Story Editors edit stories.
All right, I guess I can do better than that. Once a month, I met with
our story editors (Michael Reaves, Brynne Chandler Reaves, Gary Sperling
and Cary Bates) and we talked about stories. I'd usually start by
tossing out "springboards", i.e. notions for episodes that I had. The
Story Editors would each pick the ones that interested them and that fit
in with their delivery deadlines. We'd talk about the stories in the
conference room, and then the story editors would go off to work with
their stable of writers. (Some stables were bigger than others. Cary,
for example, personally wrote all the episodes that he story edited.
That decision is partially based on speed and financial issues. Cary
was a free-lance story editor who was very fast. He could make more
money by writing and editing his episodes. Gary Sperling, on the other
hand, was on staff. He made the same amount of money whether he wrote
the episodes or not. So he wrote the ones he had a personal affinity
for, and passed the others off to his free-lance writers.)
The editors would coach their writers through premise, outline and
script -- sometimes multiple drafts of each. (I would in turn coach the
editors.) Then the editors would take their pass on the work --
literally editing the stuff for content, quality, page count, spelling,
everything. Finally, they'd turn the documents over to me, and I'd do
my "Producer/Creator" pass. My job was to make sure that the show was
consistent. That four story editors and multiple writers all wrote with
1b. Frank Paur and I were the original Producers on Gargoyles. I was
in charge of writing; Frank, of art. Both of us kibbitzed on the
other's guys territory. We were a real team. We both worked together
on voice and post-production. Basically, it was our job to follow
through on every single aspect of the show.
Later, Dennis Woodyard and Bob Kline were brought in to direct episodes,
and at some point they were "promoted" to Producer level. They were in
effect, "Line Producers", in charge of all the nuts and bolts of
production, making sure the individual episodes they directed were
completed. That freed Frank up to focus more on the big picture. When
Dennis and Bob got their "promotion", Frank and I were bumped up to
"Supervising Producers" to indicate that we still outranked the other
*Note: The reason "promotion" is in quotes is because the only thing
that changed for any of us was the credit we got at the end of the
show. It's not like we got a raise or anything. Nothing really
2. Tim was great fun. Professional, but he had a good time, and really
did a great job cutting loose on the bizarre (and hammy) Dr. S.
2b. Can't think of any off the top of my head. Sorry.
Now, let's pray this posts this time.
Hey Greg, SJ here. Just a few questions:
1. Are the Weird Sisters three separate beings, or are they merely one entity in three forms?
2. Had the series continued, would you have included any exposure to more "races" of beings on Earth? We already experienced one possible "fourth race", the New Olympians, and I was wondering if you planned to build upon the possibility of other sentient life beyond the "big three".
3. We know that in the Gargoyle universe, some form of human afterlife exists (as can be seen by Hakon and the Captain's ghosts). Do the gargoyles have some form of an afterlife? It would seem so, seeing as Coldstone was supposed to be three souls trapped in one body.
4. In order to cross-breed with humans and/or gargoyles, do fae have to legitimitally shape-shift themselves into completely human or gargoyle forms, or is the procreation process aided by magic?
5. Was Demona involved in any of the following: The Spanish Inquisition, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, the Civil War, and Vietnam?
6. Also, if you would, please answer these questions about Dr. Sevarius:
a.) Does Sevarius have any family (beyond the clones)? You know, such as a wife, children, or even a brother or sister? Also, did you ever think about incorporating any of his relatives into a story?
b.) Exactly what is Sevarius' ancestral background? By that I mean, where does he come from, what is his place of birth, homeland, etc.?
c.) Where did he receive his education and medical training?
d.) About what is his age? A fairly approximate age would be most appreciated.
e.) With his sort of "Mengele"-esque techniques, is he a international (or at least U.S.) fugitive because of these inhumane practices?
Well, I've wasted enough of your time. Thanks!!!
Glitcheriffic, I answered these yesterday, but with the server problems the answers were lost. So here I go again.
2. Depends what you mean.
3. You answered your own question, to the extent you asked one.
4. Yes. (Don't you love either/or questions?)
6a. Don't know.
6b. Haven't decided.
6d. Late forties.
6e. I don't think his work is that well known.