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Rewatched "Hunter's Moon" yesterday (Sunday) on DVD - all three parts.
I've mentioned before spotting a lot of mentions of hunting, usually applied to humans going after gargoyles with hostile intent, and it struck me that this made it appropriate that the Hunters would be the gargoyles' adversaries in the finale. (Well, the Disney Afternoon finale/Season Two finale.)
And it struck me that the Hunters were the most dangerous opponents that the gargoyles faced in modern times, judging by results. They blew up the clock tower, destroying the gargoyles' home, and then exposed them to the public. The former was partly undone by the gargoyles getting their old home (the castle) back by the end of the episode, but not the latter - now the gargoyles are facing an alarmed public (even though they're safe at the end - for the moment). None of the gargoyles' other adversaries in modern times have been able to inflict that much damage on them. To top it, you'd have to go back to 994 and the Wyvern Massacre.
A few things that struck me this time around:
Goliath and Elisa are actually openly speaking to each other and even sharing a brief embrace on board the passenger train, just after foiling the robbery; fortunately, the passengers apparently didn't notice that.
Hudson greets the returning gargoyles as "lads" - then quickly adding in "And lassie, of course", for Angela. It reminded me of his use of just "lads" for the younger gargoyles in "Possession" that I mentioned in my post on it - apparently he's getting more adjusted now to Angela's presence in the clan.
The trio's clash with Demona in Part One seems the last "trio action" in the series; they're increasingly split up (or else acting with the rest of the clan present) after this.
Lexington and Brooklyn's shared uneasy glances when they return to the clock tower with Goliath near the end of Part Two seemed all the stronger when I realized "the audience knows that Robyn and Jon survived Goliath's fight with them, but Lex and Brooklyn don't - from their perspective, Goliath had apparently killed those two."
Jon Canmore's cry about the gargoyles when he's facing Jason at the end, "They killed dad!", struck me as a sign of how (even before shooting Jason) he was losing it; it was Demona who killed Charles Canmore, none of the Manhattan clan were even present at the event, and Jon was there so he knows it.
Broadway shows how much his attitude towards reading has changed since the start of "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" when he's talking to Angela about how great the castle library is (and we'll see them there together in "The Journey").
This story really does seem like a good conclusion for the series in so many ways - the gargoyles are back in the castle again, their war with Xanatos is (seemingly) over, they'd defeated Demona's big scheme to wipe out humanity, Elisa finally admitted her feelings for Goliath and even kissed him. Except there's a big loose end with the gargoyles' existence being made public, and most of the New Yorkers aren't too happy about it. (Brooklyn's "And so it begins" remark does also support the feeling that the story could continue past this spot.) But it certainly makes a good season finale.
Oh, and I counted the number of "claw-mark transitions" in the entire two seasons during this review - 28 in all.
We were pretty happy with it.
New thoughts and observations on "Possession", which I also rewatched on DVD today.
Coldfire and Coldsteel's bodies are initially covered by cloths; while it serves the function of keeping their nature secret from the audience at first, it also does a good job of echoing the "Frankenstein" tone of Coldstone's introduction in "Re-Awakening".
When Goliath and Hudson return to the clock tower from patrol, Hudson initially says "lads" - and just that, with no mention that there should be a "lass" among them as well. We get an echo of this, I recall, in "Hunter's Moon Part One" when he addresses the clan as "lads", then remembers Angela and adds "lass" in; this moment brought that scene to mind.
Coldstone's line near the end about how "we truly lived again" echoed Goliath's "we live again" words in the opening narration, though I don't know if it was intentional.
It's a pretty safe bet that most everything is intentional. (Or that I will intentionally take credit for it.) But seriously, we were very aware of pushing call back moments throughout. I do that on every series I produce.
I watched "Turf" on DVD yesterday as well, but don't have anything new to say about it, so my new thoughts on "The Reckoning", which I watched with "Possession" on DVD today.
In Act I, Hudson warns Angela that her mother "is capable of anything". Angela later uses those exact words when confronting Demona in Act III.
Elisa gets bitten by a mosquito while in the Labyrinth; I wonder if that was the moment when Sevarius and Thailog acquired her DNA for Delilah; it'd certainly be a "playing fair with the audience" moment.
While Demona professes outrage over Angela's claim to be her daughter, her eyes aren't glowing red - and later we learn that she'd known Angela to be her daughter all along. The "eyes not glowing red" part makes a good hint to the audience that she was feigning anger and disbelief.
That mosquito is exactly when Elisa's DNA was taken for later use in creating Delilah.
Rewatched "Vendettas" today - this time around, I spotted what looked like a small village in the opening shot (near the former site of Castle Wyvern). A minor detail, I know, but I liked the discovery of a village or small town in the area.
Yep. Especially one that the Vikings haven't sacked for a century or ten.
Rewatched "The Gathering" (both episodes) on DVD today. A few new things I noticed about it.
A minor detail, but which I find touching: when Renard learns about Anastasia's remarriage,, he sadly clasps her hand.
The letter X is prominent among the Xanatoses: Xanatos, FoX, and AleXander. And then I thought of LeXington, who isn't one of the family, but who's close to Alex, and who became Xanatos's secret successor in "Future Tense". (And there's that bit, also, in your "Gargoyles 2198" piece, about the Lexington-Xanatos Corporation.)
Goliath's homecoming makes a lovely contrast with "Future Tense", as he warmly embraces the overjoyed Brooklyn and Lexington (the two members of the clan who'd been bitter towards his late return in "Future Tense") and Hudson says "I knew you hadn't abandoned us." (While Broadway hugs Elisa, tying in with his being the closest to her among the trio, ever since "Deadly Force".)
One feature of Goliath's pondering the possibility that Avalon sent him to Manhattan to stop Oberon from taking Alex away; if his speculation was correct, that means that Avalon was, in a way, going against its lord and master. Though that made sense when I thought about it; without going too deeply into hypotheticals, I suspect that things would have not gone well for Avalon if Oberon *had* spirited Alex away (no way would his parents have accepted that), and Avalon would be sparing itself and its lord and master a lot of potential trouble in thwarting him.
You mentioned once that you wanted to have Puck break the fourth wall, but the rest of the production team objected to it. I noticed that he does come close, though, when he turns towards the camera while saying "I'm on a roll". (And when somebody *did* break the fourth wall, it was Brooklyn instead.)
At the very end, Broadway turns to stone shortly before the rest of the clan does.
Interesting observations. Thanks for all these, Todd.
Rewatched "Future Tense" on DVD today. Things I noticed this time on it.
Bronx looks sad when Hudson's death is revealed; given the bond the two had showed throughout the series, I thought if both fitting and touching (even if it's not really Bronx).
Goliath tells Brooklyn "we thought our odyssey was fated". I thought "odyssey" an appropriate term, since Odysseus spent twenty years away from Ithaca, and Goliath supposedly spent forty years away from Manhattan - and since gargoyles age at half the speed of humans, twenty years for humans would translate to forty years for gargoyles. (I'll admit I'm reaching here - and it feels odd to be linking Goliath to Odysseus when I'd normally think of comparing a different "Gargoyles" character to Odysseus - a fellow Greek trickster....)
The Xanatos Program's intention of using the "World Wide Net" to download itself on every computer marks one of the extremely few occasions I can think of where the Internet was alluded to on "Gargoyles"; the only other example that comes to mind was Sevarius receiving his instructions for "kidnapping" Thailog via "electronic mail". (It also got mentioned in one of the Goliath Chronicles episodes, but that doesn't count.) The near-absence of the Internet from the series certainly makes it appear
technologically dated" from today's perspective.
I think "odyssey" is a particular apt word. And though Goliath and Odysseus don't have a lot of character traits in common, I do think the comparison here was intentional. And they are both big, strong heroes.
The absence of something like the internet is less of a problem for me - in terms of dating the series - than, say, the brick-sized cellphones that Xanatos and others occasionally use.
Rewatched "Ill Met By Moonlight" today.
I spotted more hunting allusions in it (though this time, the gargoyles' "hunter" isn't a human); Titania's incantation to temporarily restrict Oberon's abilities includes the line "Till hunt be done", and Oberon says, after defeating Goliath, "And so ends the hunt". (He also evokes hunting imagery when he says "the rabbits would face the fox" - though I couldn't help thinking when he said it, "Technically, they're facing the fox's stepfather, though the audience isn't supposed to know that for another two episodes.")
Rewatched "Cloud Fathers" on DVD yesterday.
This time while watching it, I wondered how Bronx left Beth's apartment. Goliath and Angela glided off without him, and I didn't see him going out the door with the Mazas (which wouldn't have been an option in any case, for obvious reasons).
We get another bit of hunting "verbal imagery", though one of the rare occasions where it's not directed at gargoyles, when Xanatos refers to Coyote the Trickster as his "true quarry".
Coyote the Trickster disappearing when he got the Mazas to look away for a moment reminds me of the tradition about how, if you look away from the faerie-folk for even a moment, they can vanish.
Don't really remember Bronx's exit without rewatching. But mightn't he have just walked down the outer wall of the building.
Rewatched "Bushido" today (I rewatched "Sentinel" yesterday, but had no new thoughts on it).
What most struck me this time around was the parallel to "Awakening", with Taro as like a less-serious version of Xanatos. The two specifics I noticed were the gargoyles' awakening in the theme park, which reminded me of the clan's first awakening in Manhattan, and their wondering if someone had moved the temple, which evoked Xanatos moving the castle to New York.
Those parallels were very intentional.
Rewatched "The Green" today.
I might be reading too much into this, but I noted that the ones responsible for the theft of the Mayan Sun Amulet and the deaths of most of the Mayan clan were called "poachers" - a term for illegal hunters. Given the recurrent theme about gargoyles being hunted and facing danger from hunters that I've been paying close attention to in the 25th anniversary reviewing, I thought that an apt word choice.
This episode featured five "clawmark" transitions, the most I've noted to date in any individual episode of "Gargoyles". (I've been keeping track of those during the silver anniversary reviewing, and counted fifteen up to this point, of which five were in this episode - one-third, in other words.)
Wow. That's a lot of claw wipes. But we also had more location transitions from Manhattan to the Green and back.
Rewatched "The New Olympians" on DVD today.
Continuing the "hunting" theme in "Gargoyles" that I've paid closer attention to this time around, I noticed that Ekidne described the New Olympians' ancestors as "hunted". (I also spotted a New Olympian extra who looked a lot like traditional depictions of Artemis/Diana, the goddess of the hunt - though I think I'm reading too much into that.)
Goliath's words to Angela about how they cannot wage war on an entire city remind me of his words to Demona in "Awakening Part Five" of how he cannot wage war upon an entire world.
Also intentional. I love those kinds of callbacks.
Rewatched "Eye of the Storm" on DVD today.
I noticed, this time around, that after Goliath rescues Elisa from Odin, Odin cries "This isn't over!" - the same words that Hakon used after his initial attack on the castle was turned back at the start of the series. It struck me as appropriate, since they were both "Old Norse". (I don't know if that was intentional, though, or just a fortunate coincidence.)
Rewatched "Pendragon" on DVD yesterday. A few observations from this time around.
Hudson recognizes the wind that heralds the arrival of King Arthur and Griff; I suspected that there's an interesting story behind that and how he came to know it. Most likely something that would be told in "Dark Ages".
Griff refers to Westminster Abbey as "my abbey" when initially confronting King Arthur - for me, it evoked Goliath speaking of "my castle" when confronting Elisa back in "Awakening Part Three". Evidently part of the gargoyles' territorial nature manifesting itself.
Macbeth immediately recognizes Griff as a gargoyle, though all his on-stage encounters with gargoyles up till then were with the Scottish variety. (Of course, most of the things that went on during those nine hundred years of wandering in his life, we don't know about - only his fighting at Bannockburn on the Scottish side, and taking part in the 1950 removal of the Stone of Destiny from Westminster Abbey.)
I really like the term "rookery poem" as a gargoyle counterpart to "nursery rhyme".
Someone should write a book of rookery poems...
Rewatched "Mark of the Panther" on DVD today.
I've mentioned before how I've noticed a strong "hunting" motif running through "Gargoyles" during my reviewing it; this episode included more of that theme, though, for a change, it didn't involve humans going after gargoyles. Instead, it was the Panther Queen and, later, Fara Maku, hunting for Anansi, and then Tea and the poachers hunting panthers.
Elisa lists the body parts of panthers that poachers are after as skin, teeth, and claws. When Diane Maza tells the story of the Panther Queen shortly afterwards, her description of the Panther Queen stresses those same three attributes (well, fur rather than skin, but it's close enough), but now focusing on their beauty, rather than the monetary worth that motivated the poachers. (And when Anansi turns the Panther Queen into a human, the story stresses the Queen's loss of those same attributes.)
Goliath's explanation to Diane, when they're trapped in the pit, that he can only glide, not fly, echoed (for me) his explanation to Elisa on the ledge back in "Awakening Part Three". Like mother, like daughter....
Rewatched "The Hound of Ulster" yesterday, but I didn't have any new thoughts on it, so I skipped it over - and "Walkabout" today.
Things that struck me about "Walkabout" this time around:
I'd noticed this before, but Bronx growls at a kangaroo near the beginning. I wonder what he dislikes about them. (I also spotted a koala up in a tree - that I *hadn't* seen in past viewings.)
I was amused by Elisa's description of Dingo as "not one of the good guys" - since that could so easily be tweaked to "one of the bad guys". I don't know if you'd come up with the name for that spin-off at the time, of course.
Goliath at one point says "Aye, for now" - probably the one occasion where he says "Aye" - he usually leaves those Scottish-toned words to Hudson.
During the battle with the Matrix in the Dreamtime-world, Goliath imprisons it briefly within a dome that looks a lot like the domes it was producing in the waking world, and conjures up a shield with a sun-design upon it - a strange emblem for a gargoyle to bear.
Maybe Bronx just had never seen a kangaroo before...
Rewatched "Grief" on DVD today.
The only new observation I have is that, this time, I noticed how Keith David did the "aged-up" Goliath; his voice sounded, while recognizably Goliath's, much older. I thought it another "mark of honor" for the "Gargoyles" voice cast.
Yeah. Keith - and our whole cast - were just amazing.
Rewatched "M.I.A." today. One detail stood out to me this time; the human Londoners grouped in the background at the very end are the same ones we saw in Act I staring at the gargoyles in shock and alarm, when Leo and Una are confronting Goliath outside their shop. It made a pleasant touch, I thought, to see that those people have now recognized (judging from the way they were shown at the conclusion) that they didn't need to be scared of the gargoyles.
Rewatched "Sanctuary" on DVD today. New observations.
Elisa writes Macbeth's name as "MacBeth". Not quite as serious as the infamous "Servarius" error in "The Cage", but still a bit unfortunate.
I was amused to note that Demona barely even registers Elisa's presence in the middle of her fight with Macbeth, even though Elisa's calling out to both of them - until just before Elisa shoots her. She does finally spot the detective and aim at her, but Elisa takes her down before she can do more than that. Apparently her feud with Macbeth tops even her hatred for Elisa.
I felt a sense of near-horror, though, as I noticed how Demona and Macbeth's fight was damaging the library, with several books apparently getting damaged or destroyed.
And the silhouette of a gargoyle against the moon in the newspaper photograph bears an uncanny similarity (obviously coincidental) to the Bat-Signal.
Those typos drive me nuts.
I rewatched "Golem" on DVD.
Not many new observations or insights, but I was impressed by the late Robert Culp's performance, the way he switches the tone of Renard's voice when he's in the Golem's body. It still sounds like Renard, but tougher, more vigorous.
I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I found the scene where Janus was petting Bronx on the head charming. (And all the more impressive, given that he's just encountered his first gargoyle beast only minutes before. He clearly picked up on Bronx's nature quickly.)
Bronx is very lovable.
Rewatched "Monsters" on DVD today. (Appropriate timing, I thought, since November 30 is St. Andrew's Day, dedicated to the patron saint of Scotland - and on that day, I was watching Scottish gargoyles encountering Scotland's most famous monster.) A few fresh thoughts on it.
When Elisa describes herself to the man at the souvenir stall as "not really the adventuring type", I found myself thinking of her statement in "High Noon", "I'm no hero; I just do my job". Certainly, whatever her incliations, she's had plenty of adventures.
I wondered whether Elisa's remark about theme parks doing "robot Nessie-type" stunts five times a day was Disney poking a bit of fun at itself - we'd see something similar in "Bushido".
And when Elisa says at the end how some legends need to stay that way, she looks in Goliath's direction as she speaks, making me wonder if it was just the Loch Ness Monster she was talking about. Certainly Elisa's been zealous about preserving the gargoyles' secrecy - maybe too zealous, in light of "Revelations" and "Mark of the Panther".
She wasn't just talking about Nessie.
I've now rewatched "Heritage" and "Kingdom" on DVD. No new thoughts on "Heritage", but I still really enjoy the gargoyles bringing Cagney to the clock tower to look after him in Elisa's absence. I thought it appropriate that it was Broadway who found the kitty (he's the one of the four left behind gargs who's closest to Elisa). And I liked Hudson's rapport with Cagney, while missing Bronx. Including Cagney rubbing affectionately against Hudson - he's got no problems with gargoyles (though Maggie's another story).
I found myself wondering how that containment unit was still functioning after Fang ripped the cables apart to transport it. (To make up for it, I noticed this time around - and really liked - the way they did Talon's voice while he was stuck in there.)
As you pointed out in your ramble, Xanatos's security system does far more damage to the castle than to the gargoyles - I cringe as I see it blowing pieces of the castle apart (small wonder that, by the time of the Double Date story, Owen was getting fed up with all those repairs!) - but Xanatos's lines made up for it.
Xanatos is just so much fun...
A postscript thought I had on "Shadows of the Past". Both it and "Future Tense" - the first and last episodes in the Avalon World Tour respectively - have Goliath being beset by terrifying magical illusions, but at last realizing that they're not real and confronting the person or people behind the illusion. I don't know if this was intentional or not, but I think it gives a great element of symmetry to the World Tour.
It was indeed intentional.
Rewatched "Shadows of the Past" today.
Bronx was definitely not enjoying the wild boat ride through the stormy seas - his response put me in mind of the "series Pitch"'s description of him as angst-ridden and not fond of adventures.
I really enjoyed the little animation details in this episode - Elisa cautiously climbing up the path from the shore, grabbing hold of the stone wall at one point to steady herself, or Bronx slipping a bit when he starts climbing up the cliff.
The entrance to the rookery looked different than it did in "Awakening Part One" - apparently those doors and the gargoyle-like face over them were removed by Xanatos to New York, along with the rest of the castle. The depiction of the now castle-less cliff - with a huge gap - brought home just how much of it Mr. X had removed.
I really like the illusory Demona's words to Goliath "Join me in the dark" - it's an illusion of her, of course, but those words capture so well in metaphor what she's been trying to get him to do (when not simply trying to kill him).
This time around, looking at the giant skull-like shape left over from the Archmage's battle with the gargoyles in "Long Way Till Morning", I tried to work out (but wasn't certain) whether it was a real skull (if so, it belonged to something really huge) or just part of the cave sculpted into the likeness of a skull. I'll have to pay closer attention to it, the next time I watch "Long Way Till Morning".
The animation on that episode was just lovely..
Rewatched the "Avalon" triptych on DVD today. A few new observations.
The Magus's lyre in the "flashback on Avalon" scene looks a lot like Merlin's lyre in "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time". Obviously not the same one, but evidently both wizards share a common taste in musical instruments.
Princess Katharine and the Magus's telling Elisa "Little is known of the Sleeping King" struck me as all the more appropriate since in 995, nearly all the major works on King Arthur had yet to be written (Geoffrey of Monmouth's "History of the Kings of Britain", the oldest extant start-to-finish account of Arthur's life, wouldn't be written for over a hundred years). There were one or two, like Nennius's "Historia Brittonum", but that was about it.
A detail that I hadn't spotted before: a couple of gargoyle-like sculptures were "guarding" the bridge leading to Arthur's resting-place within the Hollow Hill.
King Arthur and Goliath have both used a mace while fighting Macbeth (Goliath did so in "Enter Macbeth") - one of a few points in common they share (others are awakening in the modern world from a long enchanted sleep, and having scheming illegitimate sons).
The Archmage's boast that he could destroy Goliath with "just a word" struck me as apt, since all the "enhanced Archmage"'s spells were one-word ones ("Vessel", "Revert", "Ice", etc.).
It's difficult not to smile at Elisa's "Souvenirs" question after Season One of "Young Justice". Fortunately, she was asking it in a lighthearted tone.
Certain elements run through my work, I suppose...
Rewatched "The Price" on DVD yesterday.
This time around, I noted the Macbeth-robot's "trophies" line, and how that continued the "hunting" imagery I'd been paying close attention to in the series during my 25th anniversary viewing. Because trophies are one of the reasons why someone would be hunting. (As far as I can tell, it's the only time that was given as a motive for hunting gargoyles - and, of course, it doesn't count, since it was all part of the misdirection tactic.)
in Upgrade Hudson called Wolf a Forest Demon, was that just an insult or did Hudson actually battle a Forest Demon in the pasts.
Followup Question: are demons real in the Gargverse?
Rewatched "The Cage" on DVD today (and "Protection" yesterday, but I had no new thoughts or observations on it).
I noted, this time around, Elisa's joke about webbed feet during the family dinner scene at the start, followed by Peter Maza's "and a great duck impersonation" line followed by a quacking sound, and wondered if that might have been intended as a tribute to the Disney Afternoon's "duck shows" - both "Duck Tales" and "Darkwing Duck".
It's not NOT a tribute.
Rewatched "Upgrade" today.
Continuing the "animals/beasts/hunting" terms used for gargoyles - I noticed Dingo's remark to Wolf "I hope you're not planning to eat your catch" and Hyena's I wonder if gargoyles taste like chicken." This is the first time anyone was actually suggesting eating the gargoyles - they'd hunted them for other reasons - control, sport, revenge (I found myself suddenly comparing Gillecomgain's vengeful pursuit of Demona with Captain Ahab's pursuit of Moby-Dick - in both cases, to get back at the quarry for a lasting physical injury, whether facial scars or a missing leg), but this is the first time anyone seemed to consider eating the gargoyles. And, naturally, it'd be the Pack who'd be the ones to consider that.
Hyena also addresses Lexington as "flying rat".
When Broadway foils the most crimes, saying "You just gotta know where to look", I thought again of his detective interests in "The Silver Falcon" - and which resurfaces again in "Protection", the very next episode.
Not just the Pack, but Hyena specifically. Not sure the rest of the Pack has her appetite.
I rewatched "Double Jeopardy" today - a few new thoughts.
Elisa's again driving along a lonely road by the coast, far from Manhattan, just as she'd done in the immediately preceding episode ("Revelations") - but this time, we know why she's out there (a warning about a power plant emergency - actually a hoax, courtesy of Thailog).
Broadway tells Elisa, as he and Lexington head off to Gen-U-Tech, "We're on the case". His way of phrasing it invokes again his interest in detective work (cf. "The Silver Falcon").
All the dates on Sevarius' video documentary about Thailog are written in the "British format" - i.e., "15 NOV", with the day first, then the month. Something you don't often see on American television.
Dates are hard.
Rewatched "Revelations" on DVD.
The "creatures/beast" theme: Mace Malone describes Goliath as "a majestic beast". (The evidence, though, indicates that he recognizes Goliath as a sentient being rather than a mere "beast".)
This time around, when I saw Mace Malone's fate, I found myself thinking of the depiction of his ex-partner Dominic Dracon in the "Religion 101" radio play, searching everywhere for those diamonds in a way that indicated that he'd suffered a severe mental shock at the end of "The Silver Falcon". Though I recognize that the radio play isn't canon, I'd felt that it did seem like a probable consequence for DD, after discovering that those diamonds had never been in the Silver Falcon - and Mace Malone's own fate, frantically trying every door, convinced each time that this was the one which would get him out of the Hotel Cabal and to freedom, felt like a parallel to it.
I like that observation.
My thoughts on rewatching "Outfoxed".
Not much new to say about it, but I spotted two things. First, just after Goliath heads off in pursuit of Fortress-Two, we get a shot of it flying towards the Twin Towers. From a hindsight perspective, an unsettling moment.
I noticed, also (continuing my examination of the "monster/beast/creature" terminology used by humans towards gargoyles during this rewatch) that both Renard and Vogel call Goliath "creature". Renard, of course, soon recognizes that Goliath's a sentient being, capable of understanding him when he speaks about the importance of taking responsibility for your actions. I'm not so sure whether Vogel came to the same realization, though.
Ultimately, I think he did.
I rewatched "High Noon" over the weekend. ("Outfoxed", as well, but I'm giving it a separate entry.)
What struck me most about this episode this time around was that it was almost a "Shakespeare villain team-up" - Macbeth (and Demona, whom you could describe as a "Lady Macbeth" analogue) team up with Iago (more accurately, a gargoyle analogue for Iago, who's only called that in the voice actor credits). I doubt that Shakespeare should have objected to that, since he'd written at least one crossover himself ("A Midsummer Night's Dream", which blends Greek mythology with English fairy-lore).
I still like the touch of Hudson and Broadway learning to read from the newspaper - poor Broadway's still finding the word "right" a challenge (cf. "The Silver Falcon"). Again, I'm going to have to look through some books on the history of the English language to find out how so many words which sound like "-ite" came to end, in written form, with "-ight". It's probably one of the biggest challenges to someone learning written English.
Broadway's excited cry, as he and Hudson enter Macbeth's library, "Look at all these books!" struck me all the more, when I thought that, to someone who'd been born (well, hatched) and grown up in the 10th century, a library that size would indeed seem miraculous. What a difference the printing press has made!
"Iago"'s cry as "Othello" and "Desdemona" recover control of Coldstone, "I am besieged!", grabbed me this time around - such a dramatic way of describing the struggle within.
And this time, I also noted Coldstone's statement that, as long as "Iago"'s trying to recover control, "no *living* gargoyle" (emphasis mine) is safe from him. It brings home, I think, his awareness that he's now an "undead gargoyle".
Glad you liked it, still, after all these years.
Rewatched "City of Stone" today (all four episodes). A few things that stood out to me this time.
Continuing the "gargoyles being called beasts" thread: the granary guards in Part One call Demona's clan "filthy beasts". Gillecomgain doesn't use the term "beast" for Demona, but does call her a creature and a monster.
(By contrast, the "breastplate gargoyle" comments about their old home, after Demona and her clan have to abandon it following Duncan's attack, "The hunting there was good" - probably one of the few occasions where gargoyles are talking about being the hunters rather than the hunted.)
Demona's clan uses nets twice in this multi-parter - once against the granary guards in Part One, once against Canmore's army in Part Four. The nets being in Parts One and Four gave a nice sense of "bookends".
A detail that I can't believe I missed before: Demona was bearing the Hunter's mask at her belt, as if a trophy, after the battle with Duncan. (The young Canmore grabs it from her during his attack upon her.)
Demona calls Bronx "my pet"; I looked up your remarks on gargoyle beasts in the archives and found that gargoyles don't see gargoyle beasts as pets, but as equals. Maybe another sign that Demona thinks far more like a human than she'd admit (or than it would be safe to tell her)?
I like the touch of the various new kings (like Macbeth and Lulach) being hailed as "High King of Scotland" - the "high king" part conveys all the more a sense of Scotland as a collection of recently-united chiefdoms (which it would have been at the time in actual history).
We tried to get a feeling for the actual history into the piece.
Rewatched "Vows" today. A few new things that came to me.
I was hesitant about mentioning this, in case it comes across as an idea, but - from the way Goliath addressed Demona as "my angel of the night" at Prince Malcolm's wedding, I wondered if this was the first time he'd called her that.
When Xanatos referred to his getting the old coin that was the foundation of his fortune as "ancient history", I thought, "well, medieval history, to be precise".
I wonder how Prince Malcolm and his court must have perceived the Norman Ambassador's departure - he rides off just before the wedding, not staying to see Princess Elena, whom he'd escorted to the castle, wedded (even though he'd presumably be the closest thing to a representative of her father there). At least it doesn't appear to have caused a diplomatic incident between Scotland and Normandy.
The Archmage addresses Demona as "you stupid beast", continuing the pattern of unfriendly humans using such terms for gargoyles, that I've been paying close attention to this time around.
Brooklyn is the one most vocal about going to Goliath's rescue at the end; I wonder if Demona's involvement and his feelings about her had a lot to do about that.
I still think it's a pity that the original ending got onto the DVD; I hope that the Disney + version uses the corrected ending. (That's the main thing I miss from my old "Gargoyles" tapes.)
<sigh> That damn ending...
Rewatched my DVD of "Eye of the Beholder" today. I didn't find as much new to notice with this one, unfortunately, though I was delighted to note the moment where Xanatos placed his hand on Goliath's shoulder while pleading for his help at the castle - meaning that he had an opportunity (which he used, obviously) to plant that tracking device on him. I'm glad that the episode played fair with that.
Brooklyn's eyepatch as part of his pirate costume seems all the more appropriate after the ending of "Clan-Building".
Goliath echoes "Re-Awakening" when he speaks of Manhattan as "my castle, my city".
Lots of echoes in this one - backwards and forwards...
New observations from rewatching "The Silver Falcon" today.
One line of Broadway's dates the episode: he mentions that Lexington and Brooklyn "have dibs on the VCR". I wonder how many of us remember VCRS, and how many of us have forgotten them thanks to DVDs and Blu-Rays.
Elisa's line about Broadway "living out a movie fantasy" brought "Deadly Force" to my mind this time (of course, it helps that Dracon's back in this episode). Fortunately, Broadway's wish to do that has less disastrous results this time.
I also spotted, this time around, the parallels between Matt's entering the remains of the Silver Falcon night club and Broadway and Elisa's later arrival - and how both Broadway and Elisa say "I've had better nights".
And this episode continues "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" , showing us that Broadway's begun to learn how to read, and has progressed enough to be able to read Mace Malone's note (and correctly figure out its meaning). In "Lighthouse" he'd initially been drawn to reading because of its ability to take you to other places and times; now he finds that it can be used to convey useful information. (And the poor guy has the word "right" in that note, though he manages to figure it out. It got me wondering - and I'll have to look it up - how so many English words which rhyme with "ite" are written "-ight" - bright, fright, fight, flight, night, sight, knight, tight, etc.
Even DVDs and Blu-Rays are losing ground to streaming...
I always thought that for a new reader - which I can't quite remember being - words with the -ight formation would be tough. So would "tough".
Rewatched "The Mirror" today. A few new thoughts and observations.
I saw Demona's snarl at the "Dracula's daughter" in a new light this time. Dracula was a human before he became a vampire - and, naturally, Demona's going to regard any suggestion that she's related to a human - even a human who's become another "mythical creature of the night" - as the ultimate insult.
Not on the scale of Coldstone or the "Hunter's Moon" scheme, but Puck engages in a bit of "blending science with magic" when he uses the satellite dish and the television antenna atop the Twin Towers to help him turn all the humans in Manhattan into gargoyles and back again.
Bronx gets turned into an Irish wolfhound (or close to that kind of dog) - appropriate, in light of "The Hound of Ulster".
Rewatched "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" - a few fresh thoughts.
I remember your mentioning that you'd intended to have Goliath list a few specific books about Merlin, with Mary Stewart's "The Crystal Cave" as one of them, but weren't able to clear the rights for that. It recently struck me as particularly unfortunate you couldn't mention "The Crystal Cave", since it was published in 1970 and "Lighthouse" first aired in 1995. Goliath could have given it a 25th anniversary tribute.
Continuing the "'beast and monster' terms used for gargoyles" thread that I've been paying particularly close attention to for "Gargoyles"' own silver anniversary viewing, I noted that Macbeth addressed Broadway as "beastie" (evocative of Robert Burns, though Broadway's definitely not "wee, sleekit, cow'rin', timorous" and there didn't seem to be any panic in his breastie) and Goliath as "monster".
I spotted a drawing of a Celtic cross at the top of one of Merlin's Scrolls, when it was unrolled and the writing was visible.
Yeah, I wanted to acknowledge some of my influences, but Disney legal said no.
I rewatched "Legion" today.
When Goliath and Lexington were reunited with Coldstone near the start, I suddenly found myself thinking of your mention of a (rejected) outline for a live-action adaptation of "Gargoyles" you'd written which had Goliath, Lex, and "Othello" as the gargoyles who'd be awakened in the modern world.
This time around, also, the Xanatos Program felt like a foreshadowing of "Future Tense".
I also wondered (just a wondering, not a question) whether the ivied balcony in Coldstone's memories (where he's standing while Iago's "pouring poison in his ear" about Desdemona and Goliath) was supposed to be an actual feature of Castle Wyvern before the massacre, or just a symbolic construct.
Yeah, one thing I'd have loved to do was to better integrate the Coldtrio into the early episodes.
I think maybe the castle might have had some kind of ivy. Maybe. Guess I'd have to research that.
I rewatched "Metamorphosis" today. A few things that struck me this time around.
When Derek and Elisa had their "Xanatos as the reincarnation of Snidely Whiplash" exchange, I thought "No, he's a lot more dangerous than that."
I noticed the pigeons clustered around Goliath just before he awakened; you'd think they'd be staying well away from the clock tower by now. (Though they do fly off in a hurry once the gargoyles wake up.)
I spotted a few animals in cages in Sevarius's lab that I don't think I'd noticed before, though I'm not certain what they were; they were too small to be jungle cats, and the wrong shape for bats.
I'd have to look at the episode again to see if I could remember what they were.
Rewatched "Leader of the Pack" on DVD today. Elements that particularly stood out to me this time:
We see all the gargoyles awakening from their stone sleep, one by one. An appropriate way, I thought, to re-introduce them in the first episode of the second season.
Hudson displays his tracking skills in examining the traces of the fight between the Pack and Lexington, Brooklyn and Bronx at Pack-Media Studios. In fact, I've noticed him using that skill a lot - all the way back to "Awakening Part One", where he notes that the Vikings' horses' prints are too light.
Yep, Hudson was our experienced tracker.
New thoughts on "Re-Awakening", after my rewatch.
I don't know whether this was intentional or not, but when Goliath and Elisa were having their conversation about the shopkeeper and why he doesn't leave the neighborhood, I found myself thinking of "Othello"'s suggestion, in the flashback, of abandoning the castle and letting the Vikings have it, and Hudson's response. I don't know if you intended those moments to be thematically connected, but they did feel that way to me this time.
It still strikes me that the fact that the gargoyles' resolution to protect the city and its inhabitants comes at the end of the first season says a lot about how different "Gargoyles" was from most super-hero series; the gargoyles are able to have plenty of adventures and experiences - thirteen episodes' worth of them - before making that vow. The series was rooted in their being gargoyles - ancient "mythical" beings with their own culture and world-view - re-awakened in the modern world, trying to make sense of it - and often making mistakes in the course of their attempts - rather than just crime-fighters.
That was all intentional.
Rewatched both "Her Brother's Keeper" and "Re-Awakening" today, as part of my "Gargoyles" 25th anniversary review. New thoughts on "Her Brother's Keeper" (ones that came to mind when I rewatched it).
Broadway's concerned remarks about Elisa near the beginning (including "If cops were meant to fly, they'd have wings") indicates that Elisa had shared with them how she was following Xanatos by helicopter before embarking on it.
Derek's remark to Diane that working for Xanatos "could be the start of a whole new career for me" feels all the truer in hindsight - though he obviously wasn't thinking in terms of running an underground sanctuary for Mutates and homeless people when he said it.
I spotted the clock's hands moving at one point in the episode; apparently Lexington had indeed gotten it working again.
But was it telling the correct time?
In the episode "The Cage" it's implied that the final scene where Sevarius is confronted by Talon and the Mutates to force a cure out of him, takes place at a Cyberbiotics lab. However, as the scene unfolds and different camera angles are shown, the electric eel tank with broken glass is shown, as well as the ceiling that the Gargoyles broke and escaped through with Maggie in "Metamorphosis". This leads me to believe that this final scene was a return to the original scene of the crime in the Gen-U-Tech building. Growing up watching this episode, I always thought of this scene taking place in the original Gen-U-Tech lab from "Metamorphosis." Are the holes in the ceiling and the eel tank just coinicidences, or was this final scene of "The Cage" intended to be at Gen-U-Tech rather than Cyberbiotics?
I'd have to watch it again, but my memory is that it all took place underground in the abandoned Cyberbiotics complex that later becomes the Labyrinth.
I rewatched "Lnng Way Till Morning" today.
I'm not sure if I noticed it (or commented on it) before, but I spotted two parallel elements in the flashbacks (beside the obvious "Goliath and Hudson pitted against someone who made a poison dart attack upon a human friend"). The scene where Demona wounds Goliath parallels the Archmage's attack on Prince Malcolm; on both occasions, Hudson tries to block the attack, but to no avail. And in both the past and present parts of the story, Demona comments on the gargoyles going underground where their wings will be no use (though in different moods).
Continuing the study of how often "beast" imagery gets applied to the gargoyles: the Archmage calls Goliath a "beast".
October 31st and you're not watching "Eye of the Beholder"?
I rewatched "The Edge" today - appropriately, since today (October 30) is, according to some sources, Dostoyevsky's birthday, and Goliath was reading his work in the episode.
I spotted more "hunted like animals" remarks (I'm keeping close watch for those in the 25th anniversary review) from Xanatos during his conversation with Goliath at the castle. (I don't recall any of that imagery in "Deadly Force". I think that Macbeth addressed Goliath as "beastie" in "Enter Macbeth", but I'm not certain - if he did, I must have temporarily forgotten my resolve to keep track of that element.)
I also couldn't help thinking, this time around, how convenient for the series it was that Elisa only got a partner *after* the gargoyles moved out of the castle and into the clock tower.
Yeah. It was too convenient, which is why we gave her Matt.
Rewatched "Enter Macbeth" today.
I can't help womdering what must be going through Hudson's head as he watches a Donald Duck cartoon, thoughtfully stroking his beard. The spectacle of a duck grown to human size, wearing clothes and speaking (kind of) could be an even bigger argument for not believing everything you see on television than the revelation of the Pack's true nature.
U remember in your ramble on "Enter Macbeth", your daughter spotted what looked like the Mona Lisa in Macbeth's mansion. This time around, I noticed a portrait of a man apparently in 18th century attire, who reminded me of portraits I'd seen of Bonnie Prince Charlie.
The doors to Macbeth get it both coming and going; they first get broken down when Bronx escapes, and when he returns with Goliath, they demolish a second pair of doors. (Of course, it becomes academic after the whole mansion gets burned down.)
Lexington talks about getting the clock working again; I wonder if he ever succeeded before the Canmores blew the place up.
1. Donald is a mystery to us all... ;)
2. I think Macbeth owned a lot of expensive art.
3. Yeah, so much destruction.
4. He never did.
Features I'd just noticed about "Temptation", this time around.
1. When Broadway tells Goliath that Brooklyn had gone on a joyride, he makes motions with his hands suggesting someone gripping a motorcycle's handlebars.
2. Demona, when she talks about the events of "The Thrill of the Hunt", uses the phrase "hunted like animals" - which not only continues the "humans seeing the gargoyles as beasts" thread that I'd noticed all the more in "Awakening" and "The Thrill of the Hunt", but also put me in mind of the Hunters - no wonder she uses that description!
2. She's got a history...
I also rewatched "The Thrill of the Hunt" and "Temptation" today. Things I noted this time in "The Thrill of the Hunt".
1. Lexington, angered about the Pack's treachery, cries that they're like animals. I thought that appropriate, given the Pack's "animal names".
2. The Pack continue the "referring to the gargoyles as beasts" practice from "Awakening" and even speak of hunting them, such as Wolf's cry "Let the hunt begin!" - the talk about hunting them also made me think of the Hunters (though they wouldn't be introduced until Season Two, of course).
3. When Brooklyn and Broadway arrive at the end to tell Goliath and Lexington how they'd seen a report on the news about Fox and Wolf's arrest, they come gliding in from outside the castle - so apparently they weren't watching television with Hudson when they found out, but somewhere else. (I won't ask where, but this detail struck me for the first time.)
4. Dingo's cry of "Stone me!" upon seeing the photographs of Goliath felt like a particularly appropriate response to a gargoyle.
2. Common themes running through the series, I think.
3. Or they were watching t.v. earlier.
To celebrate the 25th anniversary of "Gargoyles", I watched "Awakening" (all five episodes) on DVD yesterday, and thought I'd share a few things I hadn't noticed before (or hadn't noticed enough) that struck my fancy.
1. When Goliath sends the trio and Bronx to the rookery, Bronx looks ashamed of himself - in a way that reminds me of times when dogs I'd known looked guilty over something.
2. When Xanatos tells Owen "Make the offer now" at the ruins of Castle Wyvern, I suddenly wondered whom he bought Castle Wyvern from. I won't ask here - it's obviously a "No spoilers" answer - but I was struck by the fact that this was the first time I wondered that.
3. I spotted what looked like a "foliate head" (or "Green Man"-type head) carved over the archway the gargoyles are standing beneath when the Commandos showed up in the courtyard, and a couple of winged figures on one of the tapestries. (I'll have to check for other unusual and remarkable features of the castle in later episodes, as well.)
4. Many of the human characters repeatedly call the gargoyles "beasts", both in the medieval scenes and the modern (Princess Katharine's protest at allowing beasts in the dining hall, Mary calling the gargoyles beasts, Bruno asking "Where's the beast?" while pursuing Goliath and Elisa).
5. Goliath asks Elisa, when they first meet, "What were you doing in my castle?" Despite Xanatos having bought it, he clearly thinks of it as still his - as if laying pipe for the arc about the gargoyles having to leave the castle and Goliath resisting it.
1. The dogs I've had get that shamed look based on my reprimanding tone more than based on what they've done. As opposed to the cats I've had (and have), who at best stare at me as if to ask, "Are you talking to me?"
2. An interesting question.
3. Art Direction was pretty awesome on the show.
4. All very intentional.
5. We tried to keep each character's POV clear.
What would have happened had Wolf challenged Coyote to take off his "battle armor" before he would have fought him in "Leader of the Pack"?
I dunno. I'm not too interested in hypotheticals.
Hi Greg I watched Season 2 of Gargoyles recently and I am left thinking about one character at the end of Hunter's Moon. I'm hoping you can help me with.
Low and behold Demona wants to kill the humans again. This time with a biological planetwide human killing virus and protect the Gargoyles from the virus with some sort of gargoyle magic statue.
There's two problems I saw with the plan.
One Demona herself is human in the day which means when the sun rises the virus would likely kill her. Which means she'll die every couple minutes while the sun is up due to her immortality.
Two even if her being a gargoyle at night protects her from the virus. It will do nothing to protect MacBeth who will die by her hand and as a result kill her for good with him wouldn't it?
As I was watching the episodes I thought they were problems with the plan until the very end where Demona once again flies off alone.
Is it really a problem with the plan, did she have everything covered, or did the destruction of her relationship with Angela break Demona to a point that she didn't care as long as she made a 'better' world for her race?
In her mind, she had all the bases covered. But with Demona, if there's an element of self-destruction inherent to her plans, that should come as no surprise.
When Titania says in the episode 'I'll Met by Moonlight'..."even Puck may have mended his ways" what exactly does she mean by that? Was he always just extra?
What is the name of the dam on which Goliath and the hunters fight and where is it?
I can't remember. Sorry. I do seem to recall it was somewhere in New York state.
Hey Greg I've recently been re watching Gargoyles and just reached I'll be Met by Moonlight. I noticed that one of the Gargoyles greeting them at the castle in the first two minutes looks a lot like the Creature from the Black Lagoon or Abe Sapien from Hellboy having more fish fin like wings and aquatic features unlike any other Wyvern clan Gargoyle I've seen from the show and comics. So my questions are
1) Is this guy really "Scottish stock" same as the rest of the main Gargoyles?
2)if yes do his features come from some sort of mixed heritage?
3)Could he be related to the Loch Ness clan?
4)Or am I'm just reading too much into a character's design?
It's been a long time since I saw the episode, so I'm not sure who you're referring to. It's possible that a Loch Ness Gargoyle joined the Wyvern Clan generations before the massacre and the laying of the Avalon eggs. But I'd have to see which Gargoyle you're referring to in order to make a judgement.
Hi there. Just a quick question on magic. Couldnât find this in the archives. How is it that with just one outburst of magic from a halfling, the most powerful of the third race, Oberon, can be blasted into a wall?? Love the odd fact that the magic is green though for all users. Thank you
Why would that be an issue? You get blasted; you get blasted. Especially if you're not ready for it.
I looked at your timeline for Gargoyles (specifically, September 28) and was wondering, When Fox called Mr Vogel about her takeover plans, where they both Gargoyles at the time or did the call take place after puck reversed the spell?
They were probably gargoyles, but it hardly matters as they wouldn't be aware of the change.
When Demona had the Phoenix Gate(Vows), why didn't she use it to transport some of the members of her clan to present day Scotland instead of bringing her younger self to the year 994?
How would that suit her one-track-mind plans?
I am a huge fan of Gargoyles. However, there is something that I was always curious about. What did Cu Chulainn shout when he was charging the banshee in the episode The Hound of Ulster. It sounded celtic to me but I don't know for sure. I cant find a script and this I would really like to know what he said.
It is - as I recall - a gaelic expression put in the script by Diane Duane and Peter Morwood (or maybe by Michael Reaves). I'm afraid I can't remember the exact words, let alone their spelling. And my Gargoyle scripts are all in storage. Wish I could be more help.
In "Vows" When Goliath told to the young Demona about doing nothing to prevent The Wyvern Castle Massacre.To not let the petty jealousies that prey upon her heart.To fortify herself with love.Was he really hoping to prevent the future and was it his last attempt to reason her?
Yes, hopefully if forlornly.
What was Demona's goal in City of Stone? Was a massive killing spree the goal?
Certainly that was part of it.
Why did Diane react to the gargoyles the way she did in Nigeria? ("Elisa you know these monsters?!?!") By this time she had already learned what happened to Derek/Talon. Wouldn't she just assume the gargoyles were other innocent victims of Sevarius's experiments?
If you say so. But obviously, we didn't see it that way.
Hello, Weisman. Me again. Hope you're doing well and all of your projects are successful.
I was re-watching Gargoyles again and I was watching the "Hunter's Moon" three-parter and I was curious about something about Jason Canmore:
I noticed something in Part Two, when Robyn is talking to Jason and John about Demona being able to walk around in daylight and how the siblings were debating about whether she'd "share this sorcery with the others," and Jason says, "we'd never know" if she had.
My question is, did he suspect (albeit fleetingly) that Elisa might be a gargoyle in disguise (who was able to use magic to shape-shift at will) thanks to Demona or was he just overthinking the discussion, on top of suspecting that she was hiding something in general? That's the vibe I was getting from the exchange, at least.
Thank you for your time and for answering my question (:
I don't think he ever thought Elisa was a gargoyle.
Why didn't Stuart Canmore chase after Demona after she escaped the net in the flashback at the start of Hunter's Moon Part 2? She was just a couple feet away when she got out of the water.
I'd have to look again, I suppose, since it's been awhile, but as I recall, she was behind him, and he didn't spot her.
Hello, Greg! I hope you're doing well.
1. So long after I've seen "The Mirror" episode for the first time, and I'm still deeply curious: what was Xanatos look like as a gargoyle? Preeeeeeetty interested. I know, that this is not the best question to be answered in writing, but if only briefly...
2. Episode "The Edge" starts with a sparring between Xanatos and Owen. And Owen gets the upper hand.
a) Why did Xanatos stopped the following sparring?
b) Was the purpose of sparrings with Owen in training him in hand-to-hand combat?
1. I'll leave this to your imagination.
2a. Didn't he have an appointment?
2b. No, it was to maintain his edge.
Hello, Greg!It's me again. How are you? Well, I hope.
I was re-watching one of my favorite Gargoyles episodes, "Long Way to Morning" and I had a thought, particularly about Demona: How exactly did Demona know where Elisa's home was? I don't recall her knowing before this episode and i was curious. Was she somehow keeping tabs on her or spying?
Thank you for your time and answering my question. (:
Maybe she checked the phone book.
I'm told it magically gives out addresses.
Love all your work, so thank you for such a great stories.
In the episode "the mirror," Puck Says "All Humans on this concrete Isle." NYC has such a constant flux of traffic, between cars, cabs, ferries, and public transport, when people entered Manhattan did they magically become a gargoyle even after the spell was cast? Did those who left the Isle magically revert to human form? Since the populace appeared to accept the notion that they were always gargoyles, I imagine that if those entering/leaving the island did change, then they did not notice. Would that be correct?
Thank you so much!
I suppose this is a bit of a nitpick about 20 years too late, but while rewatching the pilot of Gargoyles for the millionth time, I couldn't help but question how Goliath managed to carry all of the Gargoyles from the battle to Castle Wyvern.
One at a time.
What was Xanatos' contingency plan in case Goliath threw him off the edge of the Eyrie Building at the end of "Awakening, Part Five"?
Hey Greg! My question is in regards to the letters sent by Xanatos in Vows:
1. What details were included in the first letter? Did he just say "here is a coin" or were stock tips or other future knowledge included?
2. Who did young David think sent the letter? Could someone as intelligent as X really leave that alone for 20 years?
3. Are the letters constructs of the time stream or out of David's head? Did he read (or copy) the originals before traveling back in time?
1. Just the coin, basically, as I recall. It's been a while since I've rewatched the episode.
2. He never knew. He may have searched on and off for an answer, but didn't find one until the second letter came.
3. He probably had them memorized. So the content may in fact have been born with the time stream.
1) The spell the Weird Sisters cast on Demona and Macbeth ensures that the two of them are unaging and immortal, only able to be killed by one another. However, in "The Mirror", Demona expresses her wish to no longer turn to stone during the day, stating it makes her "vulnerable".
If Demona were to be shattered by someone other than Macbeth when stone during the day, would it bypass the Weird Sister's enchantment and kill both her and Macbeth permanently, or would the enchantment be powerful enough to simply piece her back together?
1. Vulnerable to Macbeth, at least. The rest of your question is hypothetical and moot.
Hello, Mr. Weisman. Back again.
Something that bugged me a little when I was watching "High Noon" and "The Price"; in both episodes, Goliath wonders how Macbeth could have escaped from the Weird Sisters (of course, Macbeth didn't actually escape, but that's neither here nor there with regards to my point).
Anyway, my question is this: did it never occur to Goliath that the Weird Sisters might have just let Macbeth go? After all, he doesn't really know anything about the Sisters at this point; they're almost entirely an unknown quantity. Did he think that they'd keep Macbeth and Demona prisoner indefinitely (that isn't rhetorical; I really do want to know)?
Thank you for your time, sir. Have a nice day.
I don't know about indefinitely, but the Sisters didn't take them casually, hence Goliath's response.
There has been a lot of talk over the years about why Demona told Goliath about the Praying Gargoyle during her gloating in "Hunter's Moon Part Three".
1. The gloating was exactly that, gloating. Like most villains, she had to have a "my brilliant plan" speech.
2. Subconsciously, she wants to be defeated because without humanity around, she'll lose her scapegoat and because she subconsciously knows she needs to be stopped, so she subconsciously handed Goliath the tools to stop her master plan.
3. And this is my interpretation, she actually believed Goliath would let her. After what happened on board the Hunter's airship in "Hunter's Moon Part Two", saying Goliath is thinking like a true gargoyle as he openly demands vengeance, seemingly killing two Hunters with Goliath, and Goliath himself not disagreeing when she says that perhaps they're not so different; she believed he was finally, finally seeing the light, finally coming over to her way of thinking, and... well, since gargoyles mate for life, thinking she might finally have her man back and a human free Earth.
Or maybe it was all of the above or none of the above.
All of the above. And more. She's a bit of a complicated mess, huh?
Dear Mr. Weisman I have a question about the Awakening episodes. Did you and your team want the audience to figure out Xanatos and Demona were the bad guys before Goliath found out? In the third part there is a scene where Xanatos says that everything is going just as planned which gives it away. And in the fourth episode there is that extreme close up on Demona's face when she and Goliath meet again and she smiles like a villain. If you did not wish for the audience to figure it out then why were these shots not cut? You could have kept the pretense going until the fifth part.
Obviously, we wanted to let the audience know something was up, without letting them know exactly what.
In the Mirror Episode, When the humans (including Elisa Maza) turned into gargoyles, did that include Elisa's Family Xanotos, Fox, the cops, and the parents of Xanotos and fox? Or is it just the minor characters and Elisa?
Everyone on the island.
1. In 'Double Jeopardy' Lexinton and Broadway view the tapes of Severius, detailing the creation of Thailog. (I'm being a bit specific in case some details have slipped your mind over the years) Anyway, Severious artfically aged Thailog to be the age of Goliath, but how did Severious know Goliaths age or did he just estimate?
2. Also in that tape, Severious mentioned how he managed to counter the 'slow aging process'. Goliath would later explain to Elsa that gargolyes age at 1/2 of humans, so once again, how did Severious know that?
3. If Thailog had been aged differently, say to the age of the Trio or Hudson, would that have affected his mind by much?
4. In Vows, Thailog and Macbeth meet for the first time and I do love Macbeths reaction. 'Who the blazes are you?!'. Did Macbeth react like that because he was put off by Thailog's resemblance to Golaith?
5. In that same scene, Thailog slips Macbeth a gun and allows him to escape. So I'm assuming that Macbeth was not entirely sure of Thailog's intentions, other than that it looked like he was double crossing Demona, but it has me thinking. Does Macbeth count Thailog as an alley, enemy, or just neutral?
1. He estimated, I suppose. But I also think it's possible that he had that information from Xanatos, who may have gotten in the past through Demona.
2. I don't remember this. Are you sure you heard that right? Because Thailog from this point on ages at a normal rate.
3. Too hypothetical to answer.
4. He was reacting to that, yes.
5. I think by the time Macbeth and Goliath were done comparing notes, Macbeth would regard Thailog at best as someone to be very wary of.
Where was that dam where Goliath fought the Hunters? New Jersey? Long Island? Westchester County?
I'm guessing the latter, but it's been so long, I honestly don't remember.
I'm back with some questions regarding the skiff Goliath and co. rode arround on during the World Tour.
For the life of me I cannot recall whether they kept the skiff with them in Manhatten or sent it back to Avalon, or if it was ever even shown what happened to it.
1. If they did keep it, would whoever rode it next be taken back to Avalon or resume the World Tour?
2. Also, if they kept it, how did Tom get from Avalon to Manhatten?
3. Kind of a related topic, but if not I'll understand if I have to ask again later...what brought King Arthur's body to Avalon?
It wasn't shown, but you saw what happened to Arthur's skiff. The same thing happened to Goliath's. Since the skiff/Avalon "knew" it was the last stop, it sank away and returned to Avalon. Recycled, don'tcha know.
1. See above.
2. There is, by the way, more than one skiff.
3. A skiff.
I just watched Enter Macbeth and I have a question about why he went to Xanatos with his offer. How did Macbeth know that there were gargoyles living modern Castle Wyvern in the first place?
He had seen them.
hey Greg, long time fan of the show, i started watching it when i was 11 yrs old, i'm 27 now. here's my question: in the episode High Noon just before the sun rises, what was Goliath looking at before he took his position since he shifts his head to the left (our right, his left)
I'm sorry. I can't remember. I'd have to rewatch that specific scene.
Not a very significant question here, but I couldn't help noticing as I was watching Young Justice that there were a few little references to the film "Casablanca." I really, really love that movie, and I loved the recurring callbacks to it - the episode entitled "Usual Suspects," the exchange in "Insecurity" of "At least a kiss is still a kiss," "And a sai is just a sai!", and (though this one's a bit more tenuous) the whole "We'll always have Paris" implication that was in "Endgame."
It's just really great stuff. I guess I've been wondering for quite a while what the inspiration or reasoning was behind it, or if it was just for fun, or just a coincidence; I dunno! They were all great little Easter eggs and made me smile whenever they'd pop up.
YJ is (was) a spectacular series and really changed my life, no joke! Thank you so, so much for sharing it with all of us (and for taking the time to answer fan questions; wow).
I'm a huge fan of the movie. Slipped a visual reference to it into Gargoyles even. But I don't think there was much of a plan here. Some of its dialogue has simply slipped into the vernacular.
I recently read one of post about Reawakening and you said that even though some people saw the gargolyes and coldstone, the public still didnt know about them because there was no proof. I cant help but find this funny, because in todays day and age pretty much everyone carries a camera AND the internet in there pocket, so it is far easier to get phsiycal proof of something. So im curious but if you would have done things a little differently if the series had been set in a more recent time?
Okay so i reaslie with your lack of actvity here, this post will go unawsered for a very long but i do hope it dosent get deleated like my last post.
In Double Jeapordy(which is probabley my favourite episode, for reasons you can guess), i noticed recently two things that i thought were strange. When serveius received the kidnapping instructions from thailog, thinking it was xanatos, did these instructions state specfically whether or not thailog was going to be in on it? That is to say did they tell serverius that thailog was going to know about xanatos plan to fake kidnap him? I ask because, when the comadoes bring thailog to the oil rig, serverius prepares to drug him, then thailog breaks out of the container and looks angry(of course you said he likes to perform). Then when he drugs golaith, he says his shackles werent locked and he clearly was not drugged himself. So what happened? Why did serverius put him in a cell unchained and in full strength? The only thing i can think of is, after thailog killed the comadoes, serverius told him about *ahem* xanatos plan, thailog then feigned ignorance and simply waited in the cell to make it look more convincing for whoever servius thought the plan was directed at.
The second thing i am wondering about is when xanatos arrives with ransom money and then attacks serverius. If xanatos had no clear intention of paying and was simply going to "make a example" out of serverius, then why did he bring the money at all? Also what xanatos mean by that? Was he actually going to kill serverius for his betrayal or just punish him in a very severe way?
And now that im done i actually thought of another question. When lexinton finds the gen-u-tech band, did thailog leave that here intentionally or was simply an accident? If his goal was to lure golaith to the oil rig, then why did he leave a clue that could have lead golith all the way back to the city? Anyway i hope you are able to answer these for an old fan like me and i also hope that when i read your answer in the future young justice was still be on. Have a nice day!
Sometimes it feels like every day here at ASK GREG has a theme.
Today's theme is "ask me extremely specific questions about stuff from SO long ago that there's no chance I'll remember". I'd love to have the luxury of time to go back and watch the episodes, but I don't. I barely have the luxury of time to answer these questions.
Anyway, I'll do my best.
1. This one I really don't remember. It all made sense at the time though, and I tend to think it makes sense now.
2. Xanatos brought the money because he didn't know what the set-up would be when he got there. He thought he might have to show real money to get what he wanted. As for what he planned to do with Sevarius, I think it's best to leave that to your imagination.
3. Thailog knew there was more than one gargoyle. He wanted ALL to be discovered. If I'm recalling correctly.
And going back to Gargoyles and YJ, I noticed your secret connection with Celebrity Hockey (Hudson's favorite show). I thought that was pretty cool. I like how you use mirroring, foil characters, connections, irony, all that good stuff on your shows. Like in "Cloud Fathers" Coyote (the spirit) pulled a stunt on Coyote (the Xanatos robot) which was very similar to Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad, and Superboy pulling on Blockbuster in "Fireworks". I also see you said once that the Light was perhaps influenced by the Illuminati in Gargoyles, but not directly, so I wanted to know if there are any other hidden connections between YJ and Gargoyles and if so what are they?
Thanks a lot Greg. Like I said before, I appreciate how you're willing to talk with your fans and I think this website and your work is really great!
There are probably a ton. You can chalk up some of them to my sincere lack of imagination. But others are quite intentionally used as fan-service, particularly to Gargoyles fans, who have been beyond ridiculously loyal to me for over a decade. And often it's just for my own personal amusement. Trust me, if I could have figured out a way to put some version of the line "You beat up a beach!" into Young Justice, I would have.
Regarding Stargate: The Hunted.
I would have watched it. (I think I tried the first ep of the cartoon that did get made. Whatever it was, it wasn't Stargate.)
You said "Besides, night looks cooler om action animation than day does." That reminded me how day shots in Gargoyles used to jump out due to their rarity. Though I must add that one of the best tv action sequences anywhere is Elisa evading and taking out the goon squad while running through Central Park in the morning. (I also thought of B:TAS, but who doesn't think of Dark Deco when they hear nighttime and animation?)
One thing intrigued me; you made the large alien (name escapes me at the moment) only 12- a member of a long lived, quick growing species, but still a child. I would think living thousands of years would lead to an extended childhood, not quick growth. What made you choose that? (If you don't recall, what are your current thoughts on it?)
I'm a little lost. Are you referring to Ohnu? If so, I think the idea was to keep the cast young and inexperienced. And I liked the idea of a man-child.
I am just writing to say the gargoyles was and still is one of my favourite childhood shows. The twists with fox being part magic and owen was puck the whole time?!! I was utterly surprised!! Now i get how Xanatos knows some things that are unnatural.
Another thing, in the episode upgrade, i noticed that fox and Xanatos were playing a game of chess with the pack and the gargoyles as pieces whilst the pack and the gargoyles were fighting each other at the same time. That cannot be a coincidence. i believe they were playing their lives as if it was a game to them and chess seems to be a perfect way to illustrate the point.
Thanks. (And I don't think we were being subtle about it. We never wanted the audience to think it was a coincidence.)
I have a question about Vendettas. When Vinnie first encounters Goliath and Wolf fighting he was driving a fork lift. Why was this? Was that his job at the time? It would amuse me to think that Vinnie brought his pie firing cannon to work. Then again he mostly encountered the Gargoyles at work, so maybe he wasn't being so illogical.
Boy, it's been a LONG time since I watched that episode. Wasn't he tracking them? Then he made use of the forklift because it was there? Honestly, I just can't remember. But what you're suggesting doesn't sound right.
Facts and Fiction about "Deadly Force".
We got a shout out here:
15 Temporarily Banned Episodes of Popular TV Shows
"Deadly Force" made #5!!! Which is very, very cool!
It's ALWAYS nice to be talked about, and I don't want to sound like a churl, but in the very short paragraph describing the situation, there are at least four errors. Here's the original text from the website:
5. Gargoyles, "Deadly Force"
While pretending to use a gun in "Deadly Force," Broadway accidentally shoots Elisa and attempts to cover up his crime. Although this episode was initially pulled from the rerun cycle thanks to objections by advisory groups, it was eventually re-aired after editors removed some of the blood from Elisa's shooting. It has since been added to the DVD collection.
Error #1: Broadway wasn't "pretending to use a gun". He was playing with an ACTUAL gun, pretending to be a cowboy. (This one may sound nit-picky, but I don't think the original phrasing is clear at all.)
Error #2: "[Broadway] attempts to cover up his crime". Not really. He's so afraid and ashamed, he runs away and hides. When Goliath accuses Dracon, it takes Broadway a few minutes to own up to his culpability. But there's no attempt at a cover-up.
Error #3: "[T]his episode was initially pulled from the rerun cycle thanks to objections by advisory groups..." That's untrue. In fact, the REVERSE is true. Advisory Groups LOVED this episode. For example, we got a positive write-up in Madeline Levine's "Viewing Violence", which I can tell you was not overly kind to most animated television series. No, the truth is we were fine when the series was in syndication and when it was rerun on the USA network. But when it moved to what was then called "ToonDisney", a new group of Disney S&P execs over-ruled what our original S&P exec had decided and ignored ALL the good press that the episode had received. Thus (for a long while), TPTB removed it from the rerun rotation.
Error #4: "...it was eventually re-aired after editors removed some of the blood from Elisa's shooting..." Again, this is inaccurate. The episode aired ONCE with the excessive blood, because Frank Paur and myself didn't get the retake with less blood back from Japan in time. WE were the ones who wanted less blood, because (a) we didn't want it to appear that Elisa had already bled out and (b) that much blood seemed distracting, like we were trying to get away with something instead of trying to tell the story. By the episode's second airing, the retake was in and the episode aired multiple times with less blood in syndication and on USA before the series' reruns moved to ToonDisney, and the version with less blood was pulled from the rotation. It's reinstatement had nothing to do with quantity of blood. It was originally brought back for Halloween marathons - I suppose because TPTB at ToonDisney thought they could get away with it on Halloween. Then later, when we began airing VERY, VERY late at night, I suppose they figured there was no reason not to include it.
Anyway, so there you have it. Still glad we were mentioned, but I figured I should set the record straight on these points.
I'm sure you're all still wondering why my presence here at ASK GREG has been so minimal. I'm still quite swamped with work, but I wanted to try to post a little something...
What happened to the disc Robyn stole from Demona? Did the police find it in the wreckage of the airship?
SPOILER REQUEST. NO RESPONSE.
Hi Greg. Thanks for giving us this great series, and for all you do to help keep it alive. Here's my question:
I've always felt that "Hunter's Moon" was a much darker storyline than any of the other Gargoyles episodes we've seen. I don't know if it's the way all three episodes open with a flashback that involves someone seeking vengeance, or the fact that this is the first time we actually see Goliath wanting to commit premeditated murder (not just "murder in the heat of battle" like before), or the fact that we almost lose two regular cast members (Angela and then Elisa), or the theme of hatred being passed on from parent to child for a thousand years. Maybe it's just that there's hardly any comic relief in these episodes, as almost every scene seems to involve one of our regular cast members going through emotional turmoil in some way.
Anyway, I was just wondering if you were deliberately trying to set a darker tone for these episodes, or if this is just how I perceived them myself. And if it was deliberate on your part, just wondering what your motivation was for that, because these episodes really do stand out to me as the darkest episodes in the series. And if it wasn't deliberate, then is there anything which in hindsight might have contributed to these stories coming out this way?
Also, why is it that you chose for the series finale to be so dark? I'm not criticizing, because I love these episodes and I love Gargoyles, but it just seems unusual (not in a bad way) that in a show where you've said yourself that you wanted Goliath's basic optimism to shine through, the way you chose to write the finale was by telling a story where we see his most vengeful side coming out. Just interested in understanding what your motivation for that was, story-wise.
Thanks for taking the time to read this question, and for all you do.
It was a BIG story. But to me it seems of a piece with what came before (and even what came after in the comic). I'm not sure - though it was long ago - that we set out to make it darker, though we did set out for it to culminate much of what came before and to resonate with much of what came before too.
In any case, I think the ending of the thing is VERY optimistic. The fact that we put Goliath through the mill - and had him react realistically to that mill - during the three-parter doesn't change that. By the end, Goliath reaffirms his principles.
Hey Greg. I just had one question I wanted to ask you.
1. In the 2nd episode of the Pilot for Gargoyles, Owen mentions that Wyvern castle is haunted. Was this just originally a throw away line similar to Matt Bluestone's line about the Illuminati, or was did was the line meant all long to lay the seeds for a possible episode in the (then) future about the ghost of Hakon and the Captain? Or has it been so long that you honestly don't remember, because if it was that I honestly do understand.
1. I think originally it was more of a throwaway, but it stuck with me.
First of all, let me say that how much I have always enjoyed Gargoyles. It was a high point of the afternoon for my younger brothers and me during the original run (while our mother enjoyed having a half hour relatively free of sibling squabbles), and now I'm having a lot of fun introducing the show to my 4-year-old son. So, you see, your show has multi-generational appeal! Thank you for all your hard work and vision.
Secondly, I guess my question is about your writing process. I recently discovered via this site your ideas for the prospective Gargoyles spin-offs. This suggests to me that you write with a, for lack of a better term, "master plan" in mind. Unlike, say, David Milch, who famously writes and re-writes furiously as new ideas occur to him, and actually plans out very little.
1)Would you say this is accurate?
2)If so, do you ever deviate from this plan, if a new and different idea strikes you?
3)Again if so, would you mind providing an example? (A Gargoyles show example would be just fine, I'm not asking for spin-off spoilers here!)
Thank you in advance for your time.
First of all, that really warms my heart. Thank you for telling me that.
1. I can't speak for David Milch, but yes, I do better when I've planned ahead. That doesn't mean I don't allow for new ideas and/or rewriting. I do. I just would rather have the structure in place to allow new ideas to grow, rather than - generally - winging it.
2. Yes. (Gotta start reading all the questions before answering any.)
3. Uh... one that comes to mind is one we didn't do. In "Grief", we belatedly came up with the idea to let Coyote kill the travelers, who wouldn't die because Anubis was off-line, so to speak. And if we had come up with that idea a bit sooner, I definitely would have incorporated it, because it's a GREAT idea. But unfortunately, the idea didn't strike us until AFTER the episode was completed.
Someone in a Captain Action discussion group, found a clip from a Gargoyles episode entitiled "Eye of the Beholder". There is a brief appearance by Action Boy, who is the sidekick of Captain Action, a 1960's action figure from Ideal toys. His emblems were blacked out, I'm sure for copyright purposes. I was wondering if someone envolved with the show was a Captain Action or Action Boy fan. Anyway, it was a cool thing to see.
I have no memory of this, I'm afraid.
Not a question, but a comment. I was watching "Temptation" again, and when Demona first approaches Brooklyn she has this line "wasn't this like old times, fighting together side by side, comrades in arms..." and I have to say, kudos. Thanks to "Tyrants" and "The Gate" there so many more layers upon layers to that line especially. I could be wrong, but I never got the impression that they knew each other all that well prior to the massacre, so I used to wonder if the reference was generic or if she was just trying to make an appeal. Now, well... now the context of the line has changed, and for the better.
I don't know if the idea for their team up against Constantine existed in your head way back when "Temptation" was written, but I love moments of creative serendipity.
It didn't way back when, but I ALSO think they fought side-by-side in the past from Brooklyn's POV. Keep in mind there's YEARS of adventures in GARGOYLES: DARK AGES.
This is possibly a separate subject from my first question:
After "Grief," how did Wolf get to Scotland, and subsequently back to New York? Not that Xanatos Enterprises lacks the resources to do so, but privately flying him so he can make friends with a possessed axe seems like a waste of Xanatos' effort. And I imagine that most humans at an airport would freak out if they got a good sight of him, and not allow him onto a passenger airplane. At least in the U.S., we need to show a face and a photo ID that match before boarding.
Maybe he went by boat?
*rushing in before the queue gets flooded*
I have a kind of strange Gargoyles question.
When watching The Green, I began to wonder something:
When Jackal bought Hyena a first-class airplane ticket, was it for a regular passenger plane? I can't imagine how they could get through airport security, even before 9/11 -- their bodies are full of knives, guns, and saws!
Thanks for putting up with our questions all these years.
Let's call it a first class charter.
In awakenings when fortress 1 is destroyed we see the crew jumping out into the river. Does this mean all the crew escaped safely, if not were there any actual deaths from that incident?
Hard to believe EVERYONE survived.
Alright, so, I'm curious about something. In Episode 2 Owen tells Xanatos that the cost of moving the castle and rebuilding it brick by brick would be "Astronomical". He also mentions something about the castle being hunted. Now, obviously now I know it was Hakon and the Captain. What I am wondering is if that was what was meant by that line at the time it was written for Owen, or if it was just a random throwaway line that ended up evolving into a part of the story like with Matt Bluestone's line about the Illuminati.
I think he said the locals thought it was "haunted". Not "hunted." But more or less, yes. We had a notion of it.
I just wanted to ask something about the gargoyles episode The Gathering part 2.
Was Xanatos wearing an iron suit?If the suit is iron,how was Titania able to freeze him?
His helmet was off.
According to your timeline, Demona and Thailog were back in New York when Oberon put the city to sleep. Did Demona and Thailog fall asleep?
I'd think not.