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Clan-Building #7: The Rock

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Harvester of Eyes writes...

ISSUE #7 REVIEW.

Sorry, I've been lax for the last few comics, but I intend to start these up again with a vengeance (if you'll pardon the expression).

First off, right from the get-go, the story reaches out and grabs you. It's barely been forty-eight hours since Thailog crashed the party, and some of the clan are leaving the castle to accompany Macbeth to Europe. It was great how Macbeth appealed to Goliath, too. He pretty much summed it up: Xanatos is their landlord. Nothing more. So needless to say, it was also great to see Xanatos working behind Goliath's back in this one.

As we see in this issue, he hadn't changed that much even as far back as "Possession". Coldfire and Coldsteel were still his creations, so it would stand to reason that he'd add something to their construction which would allow him to "call" one of them. Can't wait to see what his plan is, as well as the Society's interest in the Stone.

The cutscenes to Thailog and his crew were also interesting. I'm wondering if that will tie in somehow. Shari is a nine, so she probably has some knowledge of Xanatos's assignment. And Thailog and Brentwood were obviously digging for something.

It was also interesting to see a gargoyle's reaction to jet lag, especially since I think that's been a topic of discussion in the Station 8 comment room before. So I have to wonder if they got to see the sun before they adjusted. Especially since Hudson made a remark in "The Mirror" stating that he'd like to see it, just once.

And the gargoyles at the end were a very nice shocker. Though I think it's great, after seeing Demona, Angela, Ophelia, and Desdemona, to see a more full-figured female among the gargoyle race. I can't wait to see which one Lexington might have been referring to on the second page of the issue (if indeed it was one of them).

As far as the art is concerned, I think Hedgecock is getting better, though I think he's still grappling with conveying emotion on close-ups of the faces. But the coloring in this one more than made up for that.

Overall, this issue was a hell of a fun ride loaded with a lot of neat little twists. Can't wait to read more.

Greg responds...

Good, cuz, you know, we're making more.

Response recorded on January 11, 2008

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Antiyonder writes...

- Have to say, this story arc is one I'm was looking forward to. Didn't think we'd get to that team up between Coyote 5.0. and Coldsteel for awhile. While I knew Xanatos would still be in conflict with the Gargoyles at times, I wasn't sure if he would still use the Coyote Robots or not.

- Getting to see Macbeth Post-Journey was a plus. I wonder if he knows about his minions current employer. I could help but chuckle when he was having his drink while waiting for Lexington and Hudson to awaken.

- Don't know why, but this cliffhanger's got me the most excited for the next issue. Not saying the others weren't of course.

- Nice to see David's penciling on the comic again. I'm probably in the minority, but I found his artwork in #3 to be the start of his improvement in the series.

Looking forward to the next issue, as well as Bad Guys #2.

Greg responds...

Me too!

Response recorded on January 10, 2008

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dph writes...

My review of issue #7

Let me start by saying that I found this issue very intriguing, more so than normal. I wish I had the next two issues with me so that I could put together the whole story all at once. Where do I start? With something I've almost completely ignored in my thoughts up to now. Xanatos let Macbeth visit the gargoyles on the top of the castle. The last time (and first time) that Macbeth visited the gargoyles on top of the castle, he offered them a favor: a new home. In this story, we get the reverse: Macbeth asking the gargoyles for a favor. Things have changed a lot since then. Anyways, Macbeth wants to personally insure that the Stone of Destiny makes its way back to Scotland.

Since I'm guessing that you'll stick with real world history, the Stone of Destiny (or a likeness of it) will be returned, but that isn't important as the journey that the Stone takes to get to its destination.

It's nice to see Macbeth using 'conventional* transportation - an aircraft not an airship - to travel. Xanatos allowing Macbeth to visit the gargoyles makes sense in that he can monitor their communication. Had Xanatos denied Macbeth the visit to the gargoyles on top of the castle, Macbeth and the gargoyles would have met anyways with Xanatos being in the dark about what happened in that meeting. Xanatos's comment about planning for this contigency makes me wonder if Xanatos's original plan called for interference from Macbeth, gargoyles, or both?

Dr Sato meeting the mutates was interesting. When I first read "treating someone in Maggie's 'condition'", my immediate thoughts were her being a mutate, not anything else.

Was Macbeth that bored or that sleepy? Either way, it makes sense for him to do something to pass the time. Macbeth explaining to the gargoyles that they experienced jet lag helps explain the situation. Hopefully (and humorously), Angela's whisper to Broadway isn't going to turn into a giant speculation as big as something else. I hope we get to see more of the flashback of Macbeth trying to recover the Stone of Destiny in 1950. When you wrote "Gathelus and his family would wander the globe for Two Years", did you literally mean the entire globe or just Europe?

Anyways, Xanatos's line of "The stone's flawless surfaces and clarity increase the speed of " and the picture showing location have me fairly convinced that the diamond is an essential part of Coyote 5.0's "computer core". I wouldn't have caught the reference except for an episode of Where on Earth is Carmen Sandiego where Carmen took some coal and turned into a diamond and the detectives installed it into their computer system and somehow speeded things up. On the other hand, I could be way completely off-base in the assumption that the crystal is part of the computer core.

When Dr Sato mentions that Maggie needs an o.b., I had no idea what that meant, but then others in the s8 cr pointed out that was a way of saying that Maggie was pregnant.

King Arthur pulling a sword onto Macbeth really is an indicator of King Arthur's skill, but still one wonders why use the sword instead of an arm. It's nice to see the London clan, again.

Overall, I really enjoyed this story and am looking forward to seeing the next two parts. The intrigue keeps growing as I'm not sure what the true motivation of each player really is.

I have some theories about the use of the Coyote diamond inside of Coyote, but I'm more thrilled that you don't let things go to waste from season 1. Indeed, you are building a great tapestry.

Greg responds...

Thanks. I do try.

Response recorded on January 10, 2008

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Ricky writes...

Hey Greg,

I just managed to get a hold of issue #7, and I have to say it is my absolute favorite so far! The story was great, and I can't wait to find out what happens next, but what I really wanted to comment on was the artwork. I've loved David Hedgecock's unique style and his take on the different looks of the characters since the beginning, but I know that there have been fans who have gone as far as to say they hated it. I noticed that in this issue the characters drawings looked a bit different, maybe as if David had heard the fans' comments and paid attention to their criticism while drawing this issue. So, finally my questions:

1. I'm sure you've heard the fans' criticism and I was wondering did you had talk to David about the fans' concerns? If so, what did you say?

and, if not:

2. Do you know whether David heard the criticism, and if so, is that the reason for the slight difference in the artwork?

Thanks a lot for your time, Greg! Keep up the great work!

Greg responds...

I did talk to David about the fan criticism. The talk went something like this...

Dave: "Man, the fans really seem to hate me."

Greg: "Ignore 'em."

[As I said before, every fan is entitled to his or her opinion, but I thought some of the statements made about the art went beyond what was on the page and ventured into the personal, making all sorts of truly outrageous and/or presumptuous assumptions. I have little tolerance for that.]

Dave's work is improving, mostly because he's getting more and more familiar with the characters, because he's showing what he can do when designing new characters and because, well, practice makes perfect. There was no course correction here. I, for one, have been confident we've been on the right course from day one. But it is a course, not an end point.

I also think that Robby is a great addition to the team.

Response recorded on January 09, 2008

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Matt writes...

Can you give us some clarification on what is going on with Macbeth's coronation in "The Rock" versus "City of Stone". Is this a retcon or did both scenes happen?

Greg responds...

I'm going to say BOTH happened. Yeah...

Response recorded on January 09, 2008

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Chip writes...

I have so much to say about "The Rock". I don't even know where to begin. Normally I'd start at the beginning, but the issue doesn't even start there...

MacBeth needs Goliath and clan's aid. It think that for Mac, this is more than just asking a favor. This is him officially making peace with the clan. We knew he was pro-goyle from "The Journey" but now he officially becomes an ally. Oddly enough, Xanatos is not. We live in his castle, but he's not our friend.

So X makes a deal with Coldsteel (Interesting that X is holding all the cards in his alliance with Coldsteel) and C teams up with Coyote 5.0 I love it, and knowing Coyote, he won't last long. This one has the Coyote diamond, I wonder if Xanatos reused parts from 4.0 and the Cauldron of Life?

Jacob's pillow. Hmm...I see that Shari likes telling storys, on a completely unrealated note...ever read Arabian Nights?

Nice touch with the City of Stone reference on page 4, and I got a chuckle out of "Magic talking stone" Yay, Scotland!

And now Shari's story about Gathelus. As an Egyptologist (or rather a student, as I'm not one yet) I loved this story. I feel that Gathelus must have done far more than just win some battles though...for a Pharaoh can only claim right to the throne if he's married to the daughter of a Pharaoh. By giving Gathelus his daughter, the Pharaoh was essentially saying you are next in line for the throne. Quite an honor

I was so pleased that you didn't make the common error of saying that Rhameses II was the Pharaoh of the Exodus. (In fact thank you for not mentioning him by name at all) Calling Rhameses the Exodus Pharaoh is probably my biggest pet peeve and I don't think even Gargoyles would have survived my annoyance.

My thesis paper is on correcting the Egyptian timeline. Egyptologists think of their country as set apart from the rest of the world, as such they've pretty much created their own timeline that doesn't match up with events in the outside world. (the creation of this timeline is complicated, I won't bore you with how it came about) I hope to fix the Sothic timeline. (Which is the false timeline of Egypt)

With the (I use this timeline, but I didn't create it, so I don't claim it as my timeline) amended Timeline the Exodus occured under the reign of Nepherhotep I of the 13th dynasty. A pharaoh who's mummy has never been found. (perhaps because it's in the Red Sea?) a Pharaoh who was lamented in the Papyrus of Ipuwer for (essentially) pissing off (one of) the gods.

According to Manetho (Egyptian historian) the Hyksos invaded shortly after Neferhotep's death and met with no opposistion. (Perhaps because the Egyptian Army with with Neferhotep)

This brings me back to Scota and Gathelus, who befriended Moses and left with Jacob's pillow (Ostensibly during Neferhotep's reign) and who decided to flee with Jacob's Pillow. Which Jacob must have decided was sacred. (Maybe because it could talk?) Does this mean that in the Gargoyles Universe, God himself granted the Stone the ability to speak?

Okay, back to the present (or rather 1996) we see that Sato has become a friend to the Clan and the Labyrinth...and that Maggie is pregnant. THAT through me for a loop. Their children will be mutants rather than Mutates...

As per the cover, Hudson and Lex have jet lag. (Which I figured when I saw big ben on the cover, but I still couldn't stop myself from saying "What scorcery is this") I wonder if when they return to Manhattan the jet lag will work in reverse and Hudson will get his wish of seeing the sun. When I showed my mother the Hudson and Lex Jet lag page she laughed and said "Gargoyles get jet lag?"

Lex felt funny after waking up so I surmise that he and Hudson couldn't absorb Thermal energy during the night, and as such couldn't get the full benifits of Stone Sleep

Back and Manhattan (on the second) Brooklyn tries to avoid the happy couple (and Goliath catches on quick, as opposed to Broadway and Angela, who don't seem to get that Brook is avoiding them) Poor Brook, unlucky in love so often...I really can't wait untill he meets Katana...come to think of it...I want to meet Katana too.

In Scotland Mac, Hudson, and Lex have set up an all night watch on the stone...and Mac reaveals (to the audience) that he was one of the ones responsible for the theft in 1950. (Wonder what went wrong there? Why was the stone returned?)

We Shari tells us of the origins of Portugal and Coldstone (Though not on the same nights) and Goliath and Elisa try to work out their feelings. (And Elisa strokes G's hair!!!)

We see the last part of Shari's story as to how the stone came to be in Ireland, and the rest as they say is history. (No really, it's historical fact now, not mere legend)

Mac see's a shadow, and goes to investigate and it turns out to be King Arthur. Normally I'd like to think of Arthur as a good guy, but in this case...Arthur has a connection to the stone...he might be trying to take it or prevent it's return to Scotland. King Arthur may in fact be a foe. (Which of course show's the strength of Gargoyles, that a person with heroic qualities may in fact be the villian of the piece) And of course if Arthur is an enemy, then so are Griff and the two unknown members of the London clan. (Who's existence is now cannon) Masterful, I give you my full praise, this is the bast issue so far, and I'm sure it only gets better.

Can't wait for more.

Greg responds...

Thanks! I like praise!

Response recorded on January 09, 2008

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Blaise writes...

THE ROCK

***SPOILERS!!***

Got the comic...and a flat tire to boot (darn, stupid, jagged and broken curbs next to parking spaces...). Thank heaven there was a Jiffy Lube across the street from the comic shop.

True to the nature of this narrative, I'm probably going to be a little all over the place with this ramble. It is a bit difficult trying to piece together what happened when, but it's also kind of fun for me. I do wonder if this approach will intrigue or repel new readers, though. I sincerely hope it's the former.

I kind of figured Xanatos was putting the Coyote Diamond into the latest version of Coyote, for some reason. And that bit of intuition, added to Coldsteel's reappearance last issue, led me to believe that this story arc would showcase the team up.
I must admit, I am a bit fascinated by Xanatos's eyepiece in these scenes. It actually reminds me of Jackal's cybernetic eye.

Shari has begun to tell even more bedtime stories to Thailog. While we start hearing them with the origins of the Stone of Destiny, her first story to him (before sunrise on the 3rd, while Thailog's on the computer) deals with the Cold Trio. A followup to the previous night's story, perhaps? After that, for every 24 hours, she expands on the history of the Stone of Destiny. I liked the idea of Thailog lounging in a hot tub for one of these story sessions. I'm also wondering right along with everyone else just what he and Brentwood were digging for in the pre-dawn hours of the 6th. And like Todd, I saw the panel on page 15 as a sort of "dark mirror" of a usual Goliath and Elisa image.
I still wonder how Shari knows all this stuff.

Count me as another who was a bit confused by the reprise of Macbeth's coronation taking place outside. It didn't help that the priest (or whoever) had the same beard style as Macbeth.

I like how Macbeth indicates that Xanatos might go after the Stone.

Broadway, Angela and Lexington seem to be ecstatic at the idea of returning to Scotland. Brooklyn, however, is too busy looking at the happy couple.

I hadn't noticed Owen had replaced Brooklyn with Hudson in his rundown of who's heading for Scotland (if that is what he was giving) until my second read through.

Okay, Fox had a teaser on page 2, and the subject's brought up again on page 7. What the heck is so important about those @#$%&* shoes?!

Panel 2 of page 9 is what had me start thinking Maggie may be pregnant, even before Sato mentioned "Maggie's condition" (with quotation marks!). Just the way she had her hand on her abdomen, I guess. That also led me to conclude that an O.B. (which I had no idea about before tonight) probably had something to do with pregnancy. She sure looks happy, though, doesn't she? Both here, and again on page 20.
I also momentarily got the stone clones and the clan mixed up.

Loved the rather humorous page 10. The cover was an excellent teaser and a great selling gimmick, but it's for a more comedy/trivia element than a major plot point. I actually like the misdirection. It's fascinating to see the effects of "jet lag" on gargoyles.
Of course, by this point I was wondering why I only saw Lex and Hudson with Macbeth.

Then I found out. Brooklyn obviously bowed out so he wouldn't have to be around the "happy couple" during the road trip. But wouldn't you know, they elect to remain behind, too--much to Brooklyn's chagrin, it seems.
However, I notice Angela's whispering to Broadway, and Broadway's emphasis on staying "to help Brooklyn." This leaves me with an idea as to the real reason Broadway and Angela stayed behind.

I actually like seeing the gargoyles working with Macbeth. The flashback to Macbeth being a part of the attempt to steal back the Stone was cool, and it includes one of my favorite bits of dialogue:
MACBETH: (whisper) All right, lads. Now or--
RANDOM IDIOT: *SCOTLAND FOREVER!*
MACBETH: Shhhhh!

Coyote's new design includes the rather creepy idea of the ruined-Xanatos-head image appearing in the mouth of the "dog-head." I just wish I could say that I was as happy with the ruined-head itself--it looks too neat to me. Minor quibble, though. Overall, this comic really does give some of Hedgecock's best work.

Goliath and Elisa have another heart to heart (over 24 hours since Macbeth asked for a favor). Elisa states that "Normalcy's over-rated" (a personal motto of mine for many years). I hadn't noticed that Elisa touched Goliath's hair until someone mentioned it. Now Goliath's elated look makes more sense. And NOW we have a kiss that is more than just a quick peck with both participants in full health. Good.

Thailog and Shari are playing chess. I wonder who's winning.

Count me as another who hadn't expected King Arthur and the London clan to be reintroduced in quite this way. I wonder just what Arthur thinks Macbeth is up to for the latter to earn such a greeting.
As for the new London clanners, it's nice to finally know, one way or the other, just how varied their looks are. I knew the...um, "robust" female would meet with some approval (I like slender, curvaceous female gargoyles as much as the next straight man, but they can't be EVERYWHERE). She definitely has interesting feet, though. And did anyone else notice that there's something she does NOT have...feathered wings. Her wings are the "glider" type with hands.

All in all, even with "Bad Guys" issue 2, it's going to be a hard wait to continue this storyline.

Greg responds...

I think the "Priest" is Bodhe.

Response recorded on January 08, 2008

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Phil writes...

Okay, let's try this.

What did Angela whisper to Broadway just before he decided no to go to England with Macbeth?

(You'd better tell us now, before the mystery gets all blown out of proportion.)

Greg responds...

<chuckle>

I really didn't think this was much of a mystery. I don't know her exact words, but it was something like: "If Goliath isn't well, we should really back Brooklyn up here, so he isn't on his own if there's trouble."

It was all very well-meaning. With the density (that I have often observed) common in the newly coupled, they don't realize the effect they're having on poor Brook. Too busy staring into each others' eyes, I guess.

Of course, Angela knows or knew that Brook had a crush on her, but she also ONLY viewed it as a crush and didn't take it too seriously, and again -- without thinking too deeply about it, assuming she's thinking at all about it -- must assume he's over it by now. Lex seems to be.

B.W. perhaps should be more sensitive, but he's equally blind to it. And to be fair, Brooklyn's keeping his angst to himself. What's obvious to the reader, isn't always obvious to the characters. Look at what tips you off, and look and see if the other characters are privy to that knowledge.

It's only in this scene that Goliath finally figures it out.

Having typed the above, I'm half-inclined to delete it all. To some extent, it feels like I'm cheating as a storyteller by explaining this. Either it's working or it's not. So if I DON'T delete, it's totally due to how you phrased the question, Phil. This isn't a mystery worth years of speculation -- assuming even the Titania/Fox thing was worth that. So there you have it. Unless I delete. In which case, you don't.

Response recorded on January 07, 2008

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Greg Bishansky writes...

I thought this was a very interesting issue, and I am definitely intrigued to see where this goes.

First off, I'm glad to see Macbeth is back. He was always one of my favorite characters in the series, and I've been anticipating his return for quite a while now. I liked the little reference to his henchmen, Banquo and Fleance leaving him to join the Quarrymen. I was also amused to learn that Macbeth was involved with the real attempted theft of the Stone of Destiny in 1950.

Xanatos is still up to his old tricks. I'm assuming this is the assignment the Illuminati sent him on, and he seems to be pulling all the stops. Coldsteel and a new Coyote robot. Coyote 5.0 to be precise. I love how just because he's harboring the gargoyles, he isn't their friend. He's obviously going to be working against them in this one, considering their goals are as far as we know, quite different.

Shari is giving Thailog the history of the world. She works wonderfully well for exposition, but I don't think she's a plot device. I am sure there's a very strong reason for her to know all this, and to be telling Thailog these stories. If my theory on her real identity is correct, anyway. Can't wait to find out. Plus, it looks like Thailog is going to get involved in the fight for the Stone. Hmm, I wonder what he and Brentwood were looking for.

Goliath and Elisa... FINALLY. "Normalcy is overrated" indeed.

I've been waiting a while to see the return of King Arthur. Last time he and Macbeth met, Macbeth promised to be an ally. Let's see how that works out in #8. Also, I am very sure that's Sir Griff standing behind Lexington and Hudson... good to see the London Clan back.

Poor Brooklyn. Are Broadway and Angela trying to rub it in?

The art. Yes, Hedgecock has gotten better. A couple of panels need more work, but I think this time he also lucked out with a great colorist. Robby Bevard's colors are very strong, he's a seasoned veteran in the comic industry, and a long time fan. While I miss Stephanie Lostimolo's colors on the covers, Robby is a worthy replacement, and I doubt he's going to have trouble filling those big shoes.

Heh, two "Gargoyles" books out on time, and within two weeks of each other. If we have one once a month like everyone hopes, I'll be a very happy man.

Good issue, and the start of a very intriguing arc. I'm a sucker for this kind of stuff, anyway.

Greg responds...

Me too.

I said months ago that I thought issue #7 would blow minds? Was I right?

Response recorded on January 07, 2008

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Matt writes...

Okay, question about "The Rock", this may be hard to follow so first I'll write this out:

November 2nd.
5:14pm EST - Goliath agrees to send the Trio and Angela with Macbeth.
5:15pm EST - Brooklyn, Broadway and Angela decide to remain in Manhattan. Goliath sends Hudson to lead the expedition.
5:18pm EST - Owen, spying on Macbeth and the gargoyles, informs Xanatos who instructs Owen not to interfere.

Alright, my question is at 5:18 when Owen is on the phone with Xanatos he says, "Yes, Macbeth, Hudson, Broadway, Angela and Lexington... Shall I attempt to stop them?" Why would Owen be including Broadway and Angela if it had already been decided they were not going to go. He knows Brooklyn opted not to go, but Broadway and Angela backed out seconds later, how did he miss that? Did he miss that part when he was dialing up Xanatos or is this an error or is something else going on here?

Greg responds...

Owen is literally speaking IN BETWEEN the moment when Goliath allowed Brooklyn to opt out, but before Broadway spoke up. The "5:15" scene takes longer than three minutes to be completed. So it overlaps with the "5:18" scene. It made sense when I wrote it. I think I timed the dialogue and pauses roughly with the sweep second hand of the clock on my desk chair. But it ain't perfect.

Response recorded on January 03, 2008


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