A Station Eight Fan Web Site
I just read your apology for Gargoyles #6. Yes, I think it was the weakest comic thus far, and yes, I'm glad to know it's not unnoticed by SLG and yourself. But that being said, you seemed really down about it, and I wanted to give you at least one fan's response to your apology. I really appreciate your integrity,(Nice to know you stand by Renard's words!)and I won't pretend that the issue was as well done as the others. That being said, it's in a very very large part of you that we have an issue #6. Or an issue #1, or anything after Hunter's Moon Part Three. You mention not expecting our unlimited patience, but you need to know, you already had mine. Ten years from the last good episode of Gargoyles, you came through in spades. You did the impossible, and you brought Gargoyles back to me, and all the Garg fans out there. Thanks to your hard work, I finally got to see Goliath and Elisa proclaim their love for each other. A moment that brought me closer to tears then anything else in years. Thanks to you I've seen a little more of what would happen to the Manhattan Clan after finally reclaiming their old home, and forcing an alliance of sorts with Xanatos. I saw more of the Illuminati, and perhaps the best Thailog story to date. And soon, thanks to you, I'll see Bad Guys, and quite possibly the other Gargoyles spin offs that I honestly never thought would happen after the show's cancellation. As I write this I see that a lot of that is, in fact, thanks to YOUR "unlimited patience" as well as your refusal to give in and let Gargoyles die. Believe me, if you never write another Gargoyles story again, I'll consider these six issues a worthy return on my patience. Please know that all you have done for Gargoyles and it's fans is far from unnoticed. And while I can only speak for myself, I think all Gargoyles fans would agree me. So what? You stumbled a little along the way bringing us something we had all but given up hope of ever seeing. YOUR "unlimited patience" has shown us the impossible is possible. Why would we give you anything short of our own in return?
Just to be clear, I'm apologizing for production errors. When you say the issue was not "as well done as the others" or "the weakest comic thus far", that's not an opinion I share, though of course you're entitled to yours.
Otherwise, thanks for your kind words.
Questions about issue #6
1. In this issue, I noticed that Shari, #9, had black around her eyes. I scanned through the previous issues and noticed she didn't have this before. Was this an artistic error or is it part of her look?
2. On the next to last page, I noticed that Thailog turned to stone, but his clothing did not. Was this deliberate or an artistic error?
1. Neither. It's artistic interpretation.
2. Deliberate. A choice I made at the script stage.
My review of issue #6
Where do I begin? This is obviously an immediate follow-up to the previous issue, which I enjoy. I enjoyed seeing Thailog in yet another change of clothes. It seemed quite plausible for the Society to be aware of the travelers' trips around the world and put together that Avalon was sending them places. I found the entry point for the travelers to be quite . . entertaining. It was also nice for humans to be treating gargoyles with respect, even if that was an order. It was nice to see Coldstone's reaction to seeing Angela and Coldstone's natural curiosity about how he was found. It's nice to know that Angela recognizes Coldstone as Gabriel's hatchling. At this point, it's nice follow-up to High Noon that Coldstone does not want to rejoin his clan out of fear of causing them injury. The way that he convinces them that the evil one has taken over is quite good. It's interesting the way that Coldstone brought them down. Then it's nice to learn where they really were as well as nice to add another mythic place to the gargoyle's universe. Also, it's very nice for Thailog to be outsmarted for once, showing that he can be. The ending with Coldsteel was quite interesting and also quite trusting of David Xanatos.
Overall, I really enjoyed this story. When I picked up comic book, I inquired about being the only one in my area who ordered Gargoyles comics. I had a pleasant surprise to find there was one other. Next time I go to the comic book store, I plan on leaving contact information so this other person can contact me.
My thoughts/review on #6.
It's unfortunate that this one was plagued with production errors (especially the wrong pictures on one page), and I hope that future issues won't have that problem. But you've already covered that part, so I won't say more about it.
The flashback story felt a little hurried, in order to get it into one issue, but was still interesting. Master Dawa made a good new character; I especially liked his verbal wit with such lines as "Their souls are fortunate that their bodies are such lousy shots" and "Listen with your heart, Sangpo... if that doesn't work, I'll translate later."
The revelation that Iago hadn't taken over Coldstone's body, but that Coldstone pretended that he had to prevent Goliath from bringing him back to the clan (and thus potentially endangering the other gargoyles when Iago *did* succeed in taking over Coldstone again), was also well-handled.
And I was amused by the opening of the flashback, with the skiff arriving in a laundry pot, since it reminded me of a few discussions that I'd seen in Gargoyles forums as to how small a body of water Avalon could transport one to.
While the "present-day" part of the story wasn't advanced much, we still got some enjoyable tidbits. It seems that Thailog has finally met his match in Shari, something which makes this new character all the more interesting. And I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how things go between Xanatos and Coldsteel. (It seems that his motives for providing robotic bodies for the other two souls inside Coldstone weren't as altruistic as he claimed. Though, knowing Xanatos, that shouldn't be such a surprise.)
At any rate, a good story; I just wish that there hadn't been as many production errors. And I hope that we don't see any (or none of this magnitude) in future issues.
Just had to end the post with another mention of the errors, even though you already mentioned them -- and as you said I already covered them -- and you wrote " I won't say more about it." at the top of the post.
You guys are going to make Cranky Greg return.
I thought I'd follow up on another questioner's comment, on the huge problem with issue 6. If you've seen a print copy of it (not sure if you get one gratis or not), pages 12 and 16 are identical, picture-wise: only the dialogue and captions differ. And considering the dialogue for page 12, it's obvious that this was not intentional. I realize it's not your department, but I figured you'd know who to inform. I just hope SLG hasn't started printing the trade paperback yet, with that mistake still in it...
I should probably ask a question, since that's what this board is for... But I don't have any questions (at least no sane ones) at the moment. But thank you so much for whatever backdoor dealings you engaged in to get Gargoyles stories going again! I'm absolutely loving the series, especially with the offhand comment of adding another specie-of-legend to the mix with the Yeti... The mythology you've created is what made me fall in love with Gargoyles originally, and I'm very very glad to see you haven't lost your touch in the meantime. Thanks again!
My friend, Dan, collects thousands upon thousands of comics and he has seen his share of mistakes, but never to the magnitude of the production error that occurred on page 12 of Gargoyles #6.
I know you're the talent when it comes to the Gargoyles comic and seemingly have little to no control over the production of it once it's in SLG's hands, but is there anything that can be done to prevent the continuation of mistakes? Is shopping around for a different publisher an option at this point?
4 mistakes in 6 issues is 2/3 mistakes. If my TV only worked 1/3 of the time, I would return it and never buy that brand of TV again.
--Shopping around for a different publisher is neither an option nor a desire on my part.
--Your friend Dan may have thousands upon thousands of comics, but I've been in and around this business for twenty-four years, and I've seen WAY worse errors... which is not meant to forgive or even explain why we had so many in this issue... but I could do without the hyperbole, thanks, as well as the completely bogus math.
--As for what can be done, we've put some safety measures in place to try to insure that this sort of thing never happens again.
--Finally, I do appreciate your patience, and I like to think that the virtues of the issue (let alone the series as a whole) still outweigh the errors. But at the end of the day, if you feel like we're too defective to put up with, then I'll understand and watch you go with much regret.
Okay, let me get this out of the way. I thought this was the weakest issue so far. I understand you've been wanting to use this script for a while, and I'm sure the pay-off will be worth it, but this one just didn't quite add up for me.
First off, there seems to be a problem with page twelve. Goliath is attacking Coldstone while the monks are speaking. Is this a mistake? Because on the next page, Goliath is talking to Coldstone calmly, and the panel is repeated later.
I also did not care for the coloring. I did like Purcell's pencils, but the Evans' coloring just did not do it justice. Sorry.
Okay, with that out of the way... I liked a lot. I enjoyed finally seeing the Coldstone in the Himalayas story. Although I am wondering why Avalon sent them there, as they did not accomplish much. The monks were fun.
Thailog really amused me, though. I see he likes playing Roman Emperor. Which one? Not Caligula I hope? ;) What I also liked was, after seeing Thailog play Xanatos, Sevarius, Goliath, Demona, Macbeth, and everyone. He outsmarted everyone, we finally see Shari being able to almost make him flinch. She's playing him, it's obvious, all while she feeds him grapes and pours him wine.
Speaking of Shari. Okay, I know she's very high in the pyramid, but how does she know about the travelers' visit to Tibet? I know you won't answer, but I'm beginning to think she's the most ominous of the new characters you've introduced. Quincy may outrank her, but there's just something about Shari that is frightening.
I enjoyed the ending. Xanatos and Coldsteel. *Que ominous music* Well, who said Xanatos was a good guy? I like this, I often wondered why he gave Iago a powerful body like that, now we know. He obviously gained something... Goliath is not going to like this.
Sorry if I was hard on this issue, I did enjoy it. But, if I don't criticize when I need to, I can't be honest when I praise.
I find it interesting that you only noticed that the panel is repeated as opposed to the entire page.
Anyway, the issue is problematic from a production stand point, as I've already noted. But I'm glad you found things to like in it.
Hi, Greg! Glad to finally get the issue 6, and to finally see something we fans have known of for a while, but never got the details. So that's what Coldsteel was doing all this time. And good to see another place from legend exists in the Gargoyles universe, I just wish there was more space and time to see more. Ah well, each medium has its pros and cons. There's a number of other things I liked about this issue, that can be summed up with one word: characters. For instance, I found the demand from Thailog to Shari for a story, and her feeding him grapes, rather funny because she outranks him. I think she's just mollifying him for now. I am glad that Angela recognizes the differences about parental concerns about biological relationships, but still barrels ahead with her guess about Gabriel's relationship to Coldstone. And his follow-up comment, quoting the "biological" but still saying son, which was most important. I kind of wonder how much Desdemona overheard and if some of that pause was her taking it in as well. Reminded once again, when Coldstone mentions his concern about children with the image of Angela, how important the clan's eggs really were to the clan. I'm like many on the site and curious about the revelation at the end. What could Xanatos have to do with Coldsteel, and will the later be cooperative?
Hang tight. You're just an issue away from learning more about your last question.
My issue #6 Review.
Thanks for another great issue, Greg.
STORY - First off, kudos on the story. Having Coldstone show up was a great idea, and well executed. I liked the expression on his/her/its' face upon learning about Gabriel, and I didn't see the twist coming. I had thought his emotions there HAD made him actually turn evil. Good plot crunch, that.
For a minute there, I actually thought he was going to kill Elisa. Brutal. But that's 'Coldsteel' for you.
I was also curious as to his (Coldstone's) exact connection with the natives, and what their relationship was, not to mention their treatment of him afterwards, but maybe someday, we'll learn more in a future issue.
Thailog was as kickass as ever.
It seems to me that Brooklyn was still a little depressed, seeing Angela and Broadway like that. He made the excuse about 'Thailog still out'. Is that the real reason he walked away, or was he lying to them? Either way, I have to say, Poor Guy.
Once again, story threads were left hanging for future issues, and I can't wait to see where they go over time. I recall hearing somewhere that this issue was based on a script you'd written for the old Marvel Comics series. Is that true?
art - Not as perfect as Issue #5 was, but better then #3 and #4 were. Decently drawn, and the coloring works primo. Nicely done. Hats off to Stephanie Lostimolo and Dustin Evans.
Bottom Line? Nice, sensible, one-shot, with, as usual, hints of future plotlines contained within, and great characterization. Thailog continues to reign highly as one of my favorite villians, and having a flashback to a previously unseen Avalon tale was clever. Hats off to an excellent story. The art, though not the greatest. was still pleasing to the eyes. If awards could be presented for artwork, Evans and Lostimolo would deserve to win big.
And you, Greg Weisman, would, once again, be #1 in 'Best Writer'.
Until #7. :D
Yes, most of this issue was written originally for the Marvel book (which I was scheduled to take over) before it folded along with all of Marvel's Disney licenses. I adapted it to fit our current continuity. Glad you liked it.
Okay. I'm embarrassed. As many of you already know, there are a number of production errors in issue #6. I have already received what I believe is a heartfelt apology from SLG, and I'm personally passing this apology on to you fans... and adding one of my own.
Here, as far as I can tell, is the rundown of the errors in Gargoyles #6:
PAGE ONE. The logo and title ("Gargoyles Clan-Building Chapter Six: Reunion") have once again been left off the book.
PAGE TWELVE. Although the correct lettering overlay was used, the art is incorrect -- and is in fact a reprint of page 16.
PAGE TWENTY-THREE. An uncorrected version of the page with the wrong "SCARAB" logo was used.
BACK COVER. The add for the trade paperback leaves Nir Paniry's name off, which is frankly inexcusable. Also Stephanie is still listed as doing tones on Bad Guys, but Karine did her own tones.
ETCHED IN STONE. In addition, the blurb for issue #7 lists Dustin Evans as that upcoming issue's colorist, but the colors for #7 are now being done by Robby Bevard. Dustin was colorist at the time I wrote that Etched in Stone, but since then the situation has changed. So that's not really an error... just consider this an update.
Guys, believe me, I am well aware how unprofessional all this makes us look. I recognize that the fans are NOT expected to have unlimited patience with all our screw-ups -- be they production errors or late deliveries. I've been told that SLG is going to reprint the issue and that exchanges will be possible. In the meantime, I'm looking for a way to post the correct pages (which exist, I swear) somewhere practical on the internet so you guys can at least see what you've missed. And of course, everything WILL be correct in the Trade Paperback (though that's hardly the inducement to buy that I was looking for).
All I can say is that we will try to do better. Truly. I know that must sound hollow, but I'll now be looking over galleys personally. Honestly, if ALL the mistakes on the book were mine, I'd feel a LOT better. And as always, I'm ready to take full responsibility for any creative stuff you don't like. That is on me.
Finally, for the record, Angela's costume on the cover is NOT an error but a creative choice made by Greg Guler (i.e. the man who designed BOTH versions of her costume). He was aware that the "scene" he was depicting was from a flashback but made the creative decision to go with the new costume on the cover. Note that covers are not canon. Covers are the FINAL ADVERTISEMENT/INDUCEMENT to get people to buy the book. Greg felt that the new costume would make for a better inducement. We discussed it, and I agreed.
Again, I'm so sorry about all this.
October 10th, 2007