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jamescagney22 writes...

Missed this at the AMA so I thought I would try my luck here!
I was wondering what made you choose to have Vandal Savage motives being a grand vision for humanity in a more thoughtful way then his more well known appearances did you get this from a particular story in the comics? Usually he is more an immoral sociopath or world conqueror and I am glad you made him more well rounded. And do you see any overlap with Peredur Fab Ragnal and the Illuminati in Gargoyles and did that inform how you portrayed the Light and Vandal Savage?

Greg responds...

1. This came out of discussions with Brandon Vietti and myself. It felt right for an immortal character who had been around - already - for thousands upon thousands of years.

2. I haven't revealed enough about Peredur to not make this a spoiler question for Gargoyles.

Response recorded on January 28, 2022

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Jurgan writes...

Warning: This is going to deal with some heavy topics (specifically antisemitism), but I was encouraged to ask for your opinions. Please do not take this as accusatory, I'm just a long-time fan who's been thinking about some serious issues over the last few years.

When I watched Gargoyles as a kid, there was a villainous organization called the “Alu Minadi.” I later learned it was correctly spelled “Illuminati,” and that it was a staple of all sorts of genre fiction about secret societies, where it was largely interchangeable with the Freemasons. It was also commonly used as a metonym for any sort of behind the scenes string-pullers, what Angel would call “The Powers that Be.” All well and good, until I was reading an article about Tim LaHaye, co-author of the Left Behind series. I found out he believed the Illuminati was a real, very dangerous thing. I learned that they were sort of a real group that disbanded centuries ago, but many people believe they still operate in secret. Worst of all, they are almost always at least implied to be Jewish.

I was horrified to realize that Nazi rhetoric about an international conspiracy of Jewish puppetmasters was so prevalent in popular discourse. Over the last few years I've seen more and more conspiracy theories enter the mainstream, and if you scratch the surface of any of them, there's almost always antisemitism underneath. Even truly absurd ideas like “the lizard people” are often just “wink and nod” references to supposed Jewish conspiracies. The biggest right now is Qanon, which claims powerful people do all sorts of depraved things with kidnapped children. This is, of course, just a modern reworking of the ancient “blood libel.” Many of its adherents go beyond coded messages and outright say Jews (or possibly “Zionists”) are behind it all. So now whenever I hear anyone talking about “the Illuminati,” even as a joke, my antisemitism radar pops up. Sadly, it's usually right.

All that said, what am I to do with shows I love that rely on such conspiracies? Of course, I'm not accusing you of antisemitism (I can think of several reasons that'd be ridiculous, starting with your own ethnoreligious identity), but I didn't know anything about you or any of the other creators when I first saw the show. There is some irony that the character obsessed with the Illuminati is himself Jewish, though I didn't know “Bluestone” was a Jewish name at the time. Where I eventually came down is that Gargoyles has such clear anti-racist themes that it's hard to imagine anyone taking an antisemitic message from it. On my recent rewatch, I noticed the punks in M.I.A. were basically reciting Brexit talking points about immigrants ruining England, 20 years before Brexit was a thing. “Golem” puts Jewish characters in the heroic roles and opens with what I now recognize as a pogrom. Also, the characters we see involved with the Illuminati do not appear to be Jewish. Malone is presumably Italian (though I suspect his wife was Jewish), the upper leadership in the comics are mostly from Arthurian legend so probably a mix of Christianity and paganism, Shari is Arabic, and Thailog is... Thailog. And they partner with a clear KKK analog, which I doubt any Jewish organization would do. Still, people do often take perverse readings of shows. I've seen people read white supremacist messages into My Little Pony of all things. And on rare occasions I've even seen people say that Gargoyles was trying to tell the truth about the “real Illuminati.”

This all ties in to a bigger question of how much responsibility creators and artists have for the audience's interpretation. There are shows like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad that clearly condemn their villain protagonists, yet some fans still admire these “antiheroes.” Alan Moore has said fans tell him they identify with Rorschach, at which point he wishes he were somewhere else. I myself am worried the “sex trafficking” plotline in my unpublished novel might contribute to harmful ideas. Sex trafficking is real, to an extent, but its reality is nothing like popular beliefs, and those beliefs were part of both the 80's Satanic Panic and its modern iteration, Qanon. These questions are enough to make me (more) neurotic.

I don't exactly know what I'm asking here, just getting out some thoughts I've been kicking around. I guess the question is: what do you think your responsibility is when making a show that mostly children watch? I know you were very concerned with your portrayal of gun safety in “Deadly Force” and managed to do it in a way that “concerned parents” groups praised. There was also the need to avoid “imitable” violence, hence Duncan getting killed by a magic glowing electricity bomb. Are there any similar conversations that take place around how conspiracy theories are presented? In the 90's, conspiracy theories existed, but they were more fringe. Today, they are much more mainstream, and you're making a show whose villains are “The Light,” which is just an English translation of “Illuminati.” Even without the antisemitic baggage the name “Illuminati” has, I still worry about giving people more reason to be paranoid. I don't know how I would approach something like that, so I guess I'm tossing the question to you. Thank you for reading and for whatever response you have.

Greg responds...

Let me start with one quibble: Angel used the term "The Powers that Be" as some equivalent to the Heavenly Hosts, not as an equivalent to a very earthly - if magically infused - Illuminati, as we had in Gargoyles.

Beyond that, I think you raise a number of good - or at least interesting - points.

Ultimately, I go back to something my former boss Gary Krisel once said to me. We had received one letter on DuckTales protesting an episode where Magica DeSpell used a magical circle, claiming we were promoting Satanism - that any use of magic in the show would be promoting Satanism. (The letter literally said, "Walt Disney would be rolling over in his grave if he saw what you were doing in his name." To which I wanted to reply, "Have you SEEN Snow White?") Gary said something like, "We're not going to give magic to the Satanists." Meaning, it's part of storytelling and fantasy and myth, etc. It's one of OUR tools as storytellers. And we won't give it up, neither to any one who wants to use those trappings to promote evil nor to anyone who wants to inhibit our creativity.

So along those lines, I come down on the side of "I'm not going to give Conspiratorial Villain Organizations to the Anti-Semites." And, as you noted, I hope it's obvious that I'm not an anti-semite and that neither is Gargoyles' Illuminati nor Young Justice's Light. (Q-Anon clearly is, though I know of plenty of Jews who believe in Q-Anon and don't see it (or only see a few bad apples using it for anti-semitic purposes). Go figure.)

Note: Most of what you're describing goes back to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a false text, blatantly anti-semitic, that has been used for over a hundred years to persecute Jews. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion).

So, to your main question, what is my responsibility as a creator? I think it has to be the responsibility to, in part, reclaim the tools of storytelling and fiction from fascists and hate groups of all stripes - including but not limited to the anti-semites. I don't think it's always possible. You can't reclaim the swastika, for example, even though that predates Naziism. But I think magic circles and fictional villain groups still have hope. Of course, if you are going to use these things that have been, shall we say, compromised, you need to make it clear that you aren't feeding into the negative stereotype associated with the trope. Hence, Gargoyles' Illuminati is being investigated by a Jew and is comprised of mostly non-Jews, including many characters from Arthurian Legend.

I also personally believe it's patently obvious that there is no real world equivalent to the Light or the Illuminati. The world is too damn disorganized for me to believe that ANY one organization is secretly running things. Or if they are, they're doing no better a job than the actual governments they are theoretically trying to supplant. I mean, what's their goal? Just to make everyone miserable? If so, then maybe they're doing just great.

Response recorded on November 08, 2021

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Diamondstar writes...

I looked and I couldn't find this question so I thought I ask: Why are you interested writing about secret societies like the Light or the Illuminati?

Greg responds...

I'm interested in writing about most everything.

Response recorded on September 11, 2017

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Paul writes...

In "Revelations," Martin Hacker told Matt "Your job was to get him (Goliath) there (to the Hotel Cabal). It's not your fault if old Mace couldn't hold him." In fact, since Matt gave Goliath the key and physically stopped Mace from shooting Goliath, it was indeed Matt's fault that old Mace couldn't hold him.

Was Martin unaware of Matt's involvement in Goliath's breakout, or was he deliberately lying to Matt?

Greg responds...

For now, that's up to your interpretation. Matt assumes that no one but Goliath knows about Matt's complicity. Is he right?

NO SPOILERS.

Response recorded on February 16, 2016

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NoOneSpecial writes...

Okay so I have to be REALLY careful about how I ask this question. If you cant understand my meaning then its probably my own fault and for that I'm sorry, but I thought this was a very interesting concept. It's about xanatos's letter to himself.
Here we go. So in Vows, Xanatos travels back in time and sends himself the coin that he will eventually use to amass his fortune. He also sends a letter that is to be delivered to himself twenty years after the coin which explains how he has to get the coin, which as he said in the episode he received that very letter a week before the wedding. So I guess the best way I can phrase this is, is that the EXACT same letter and by same I mean the same piece of paper. The way I see it that letter is over a thousand years old and must be pretty worn(unless of course it was carefully preserved). So when xanatos gets the letter, does he just send back the same one he got or copy the information on a new piece of paper and send that back instead? If its the first one then that piece of paper must keep accumulating age to it. He sends it once, its over a thousand years old. He sends it a second time, its another thousand years old, and so on. So the piece of paper could eventually become so worn that it would be either unreadable or destroyed. So does xanatos just make a new letter every time he gets it or send back the one he received? PS loved rain of ghosts, hope you get to make all nine books.

Greg responds...

It was carefully preserved by the Illuminati.

In the past, he wrote the original. He doesn't reuse it.

Glad you liked Rain! If you haven't already, could you do me a favor and write up a review on Amazon?

Response recorded on May 13, 2014

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Greg Bishansky writes...

So, hoping I catch you in the mood...

As of "Phoenix" what are Fiona Canmore and Falstaff's Illuminati numbers?

Greg responds...

SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.

Response recorded on September 09, 2013

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Anonymous writes...

After "Revelations" do Elisa and the gargoyles now believe in the existence of the Illuminati?

Greg responds...

Yes.

Response recorded on December 14, 2012

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Matt writes...

Are the jewels that Mace Malone and Dominic Dracon heisted together currently being kept in the treasury of Eastcheap Isle?

Greg responds...

Probably - unless they were sold.

Response recorded on August 28, 2012

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Matt writes...

In "Revelations", Mace Malone managed to get Goliath into the Hotel Cabal. The episode made it clear that the hotel (and Mace as it's caretaker) existed to extract information from individuals and Mace specifically told Goliath that he wanted answers from him.

I'm curious, what exactly did the Illuminati want to know so badly that Goliath knew? The existence of the Manhattan Clan and their link to Elisa was provided to them by Xanatos. If they wanted more of their backstory and how and why gargoyles from 10th Century Scotland ended up in 1995 Manhattan, it seems it would've been easy enough to simply ask Xanatos for that information, assuming Xanatos hadn't already told them that stuff as well. And the existence, purpose and nature of gargoyles in general hardly seems like something the Society wouldn't already be aware of. So what else is there? What else did the Illuminati think or know that Goliath knew that was so important that it would need to be forced out of him?

I imagine this question is just begging for a "SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.", but I thought I'd ask just in cause I've missed something or you were feeling generous.

In any case, thanks.

Greg responds...

"SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT."

Response recorded on May 18, 2012

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Greg Bishansky writes...

1. Does John Castaway know his Aunt Fiona is an Illuminatus?

2. On your timeline you wrote that the Illuminati approached the Canmores seeking an alliance and Jason turned them down:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?rid=598

Was this Fiona?

Greg responds...

1. SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.

2. SPOILER REQUEST. NO COMMENT.

Response recorded on March 06, 2012

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Charisma82 writes...

Did Matt ever tell Elisa that he was a member of the Illuminate? I ask because in the episode Revelations Matt says that it didn’t pay to keep Elisa in the dark about things (speaking about the incident with the Dracons in The Silver Falcon). After going on and on about how they should trust each other in the episode Revelations, it would seem contradictory of what Matt had just been through to not tell Elisa. But then, maybe he has his reasons to keep it a secret. Care to shed some light on the subject?

Thank you for your time and all that you do,

-Charisma82

Greg responds...

I do not care to shed light on the subject.

Response recorded on October 19, 2010

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Todd Jensen writes...

Among the objects in the Illuminati's treasury on Eastcheap Island was a shield (medieval, by the shape of it) with a picture of a swan on it. Was this your idea, or Karine's when she drew the page?

Greg responds...

Karine's, I believe.

Response recorded on September 29, 2010

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Todd Jensen writes...

One detail about the Illuminati's immense treasure in "Losers" caught my eye; amid all these ancient artworks and historical artifacts stands what appears to be an ordinary everyday lamp. Was including it in that scene your idea or Karine's?

Greg responds...

Karine's. Though I won't confirm or deny it's ordinariness.

Response recorded on February 25, 2010

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gipdac writes...

Xanatos, Matt Bluestone, Thailog and John Castaway all became members of the Illuminati in fairly quick succession, but we are only told of one opening with the death of Mace Malone. With so many Illuminatus being nearly immortal, it seems odd that there would be 4 open positions within a few months.
1. Does the Illuminati always have 666 members or do they have 666 positions, but not all positions are necessarily filled all the time?
2. If they do have 666 filled position at all times, then who died to make room for Xanatos, Thailog, and Castaway? I’m assuming here the Bluestone replace Malone.

Greg responds...

Your premise is incorrect, certainly with regards to Xanatos.

1. Obviously. How could they be?

2. Seriously? Did you REALLY think I'd answer this?

Response recorded on January 29, 2010

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gipdac writes...

1. Were any of the Falstaff's Band of Thieves members Illuminati or are they just minions or henchmen?
2. If they are members of the Illuminati, what is the rank of:
A. Falstaff (John Oldcastle)?
B. Pistol?
C. Mistress Quickly?
D. Bardolph?
E. Points?
F. Doll?
3. What's the real name of:
A. Pistol?
B. Mistress Quickly?
C. Bardolph?
D. Points?
E. Doll?
4. Did Dingo know any of the Band of Thieves besides Falstaff and Pistol?
5. Why did John Oldcastle (Falstaff) strangle Dingo's mom?
6. What did the Redemption Squad plan on doing with Mistress Quickly?

Greg responds...

1. Not saying.

2. Not saying.

3. Not saying.

4. No.

5. Not saying.

6. Not saying.

Response recorded on January 28, 2010

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Greg Bishansky writes...

Since you said to ask these questions here,

What are Falstaff and Fiona Canmore's Illuminati numbers?

Full Gathering journal coming soon, I promise.

Greg responds...

Did I? Not revealing that at this time.

Response recorded on January 11, 2010

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F.Z. writes...

Hello Again Greg, i have a some questions about Arthur Pendragon
1) What class of inmortality have Arthur?, a really long live or is he Age Stuck like Macbet and Demona? or at least have some way of Inmortality?
2) And if he is Inmortal, Who made him Inmortal? this one feel free to don`t answer XP
3) He knows about the Illuminaty?

Thanks Again

Greg responds...

1. Now that he's awake again, he's aging normally. He's not immortal; he was just in a form of suspended animation (pun intended) for a long time.

2. See above.

3. No.

Response recorded on September 16, 2009

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G2009 Radio Play

G2009 Radio Play - Act Three

672. NARRATOR
Act Three.

673. DEMONA
Norman Osborn was a fool. So obsessed with the power of science, he kept the Crown of Thorns in this vault as if it was just another souvenir â€" albeit an expensive one â€" to hang upon his wall. But with the Crown and the Spear of Destiny together, I now have the power to force all of humanity to its knees.

674. GOLIATH
These are Christian icons, Demona. Not every human being is a Christian.

675. DEMONA
Not every human being speaks Latin, but that didn’t stop me from using a Latin spell to turn a city-full of humans to stone. The magic I wield is potent beyond measure. Mine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory. No human may resist. No human will be spared. None will be spared who oppose me. Just look at this fool…

676. GOLIATH
Her name is Obsidiana.

677. DEMONA
Of course it is. For she wears the mystic Obsidian pendant fashioned by human sorcerers. Even that is enough to put her in my thrall. She has relinquished her gargoyle birthright.

678. GOLIATH
I have relinquished nothing.

679. NARRATOR
Demona waves the Spear of Destiny, and Electro rises and blasts Goliath back into the wall.

680. GOLIATH
<impact>

681. DEMONA
Yes, I’m surprised you’re unaffected… since you reek of humanity. The stink of your human whore is in your hair, on your lips, everywhere. And nothing in this world will give me more pleasure, Goliath, than watching your detective on her knees to me, as she draws her service revolver and thanks me with tears of joy in her eyes… before gratefully blowing out her own brains.

682. GOLIATH
(coldly furious)
That will never be.

683. DEMONA
No? My power expands with every second. I doubt she’s far away.

684. GOLIATH
You will not harm Elisa.

685. NARRATOR
Goliath advances on Demona. Electro blasts away, but Goliath will not be stopped…

686. DEMONA
No one ever said you weren’t persistent, Goliath. But what do you hope to gain?

687. GOLIATH
(through gritted teeth)
I will turn these forces back upon you.

688. DEMONA
Impossible. I am the last true gargoyle left on this world. The Crown’s magicks cannot touch me.

689. GOLIATH
So you believe. But I am not the only one who reeks of humanity. Am I… Dominique?!

690. NARRATOR
Goliath grasps the crown. The thorns bite into his hands, drawing blood. They struggle for control of the immense power…

691. GOLIATH, DEMONA
<roaring to the heavens>

692. SPIDER-MAN
<moan>

693. NARRATOR
Goliath’s intervention â€" and his complete immunity to the Crown’s effects â€" creates the smallest of fluctuation in Demona’s control. In a haze, Spider-Man lifts his arm…

694. SPIDER-MAN
Thwip.

695. NARRATOR
He shoots off a web, yanking the bloody crown from Demona’s head.

696. DEMONA
Noooooo!!!!

697. NARRATOR
There is a massive explosion of mystic energy and light! Demona, Goliath and Electro collapse.

698. GOLIATH
<moan>

699. SPIDER-MAN
Goliath…

700. GOLIATH
The Spear… the Crown…

701. SPIDER-MAN
Gone. I think they… blew up. Calypso’s gone too. But I’m betting that’s just a talent of hers. And I’d guess she’s taken Kraven and the pussycat with her.

702. DEMONA
<unconscious moan>

703. SPIDER-MAN
But the Big Bad’s still here…

704. GOLIATH
(sadly)
Leaving behind, as always, nothing but a handful of thorns…

Goliath, Spider-Man and Demona sit. Jonah, Elisa, Matt and George STAND.

705. NARRATOR
While Goliath helps Obsidiana, Spidey webs up Demona, Electro and Ock. In the outer vault, Zafiro and the Trio recover, finding only an unconscious and de-venomed Eddie Brock. Outside, the bad guys have all been beaten. Goblin and Vulture, their tech badly damaged, barely manage to fly away. Carnage and Jupiter are once again Cletus and John.

706. JONAH
I’m here, Johnny. Your old Pop’s here…

707. ELISA
Matt…

708. MATT
Call an ambulance, Elisa. Old Man Dracon said something about seeing a light. Then he collapsed. A stroke or something. I’ve been giving him C.P.R.

709. ELISA
Matt… Matt! You can stop. Stop. He’s gone.

710. GEORGE
You’re gargoyles are flying off, Detective.

711. MATT
(breathing hard)
Really? Not sure I see ‘em myself. But is that Spidey web-slinging away?

712. GEORGE
You think? I must have missed him?

Margot STANDS.

713. MARGOT
Are you all blind?! They’re right over there!

714. GEORGE, MATT, ELISA (UNISON)
Oh, give it a rest, Margot…

Elisa, Matt, George, Margot and Jonah sit. Peter, May, Harry and Gwen STAND.

715. NARRATOR
Back at the bus…

716. PETER
I’m back. And not a single decent picture to show for my efforts.

717. MAY
Well, you tried your best, Peter. I’m sure Mr. Jameson will appreciate that.

718. PETER
Oh, yeah. He’s a sweetheart that way.

719. NARRATOR
Emily Osborn watches as her son finally emerges from the bathroom.

720. GWEN
Harry?

721. HARRY
Hey, Gwen. I feel much better.

Harry, Gwen, Peter and May sit. Jonah and Robbie STAND.

722. NARRATOR
Later that night, at The Bugle…

723. JONAH
Whaddayou mean I can’t publish it?! How else can I make them all pay for what they did to Johnny!

724. ROBBIE
You can’t publish because the authorities refuse to comment. We have no pictures or statements to corroborate a story that includes gargoyles, a dead Green Goblin and everything except the kitchen sink. No one will believe it. I was there, and I don’t believe it! Print this, Jonah, and The Bugle becomes the next Daily Tattler.

725. JONAH
Ms. Brant, call the bomb squad. BECAUSE I’M ABOUT TO EXPLODE!!

Jonah and Robbie sit. Gwen, Peter, Kong, Curt, Harry, EMILY OSBORN and Mary Jane STAND.

726. NARRATOR
Later still, aboard OsCorp’s private jet en route to Miami…

727. GWEN
I still can’t believe we ran into you in the airport parking lot, Doctor Connors.

728. PETER
Yeah, and we’re so sorry you got mugged.

729. KONG
Dude, they took your shoes?! That’s hilarious! <laughs>

730. CURT
Yes, well, I just really appreciate the ride back to Florida…

731. HARRY
Anytime, Doctor C. Anytime.

732. EMILY
Harry, could I have a moment… in your father’s office?

733. HARRY
Uh, sure, Mom.

Curt, Kong and Gwen sit.

734. MARY JANE
Pete, help.

735. PETER
What’s wrong?

736. MARY JANE
Tiny. Cute enough, but it’s like talking to a tree stump.

737. PETER
Tried to warn you.

738. MARY JANE
Just say we’ll spend the week as a threesome, okay, Tiger.

739. PETER
Sure!

740. MARY JANE
Not that kind of threesome.

Mary Jane and Peter sit.

741. NARRATOR
Meanwhile, Harry follows his mother Emily into the jet’s private office.

742. EMILY
I know you were playing at being the Goblin, Harry.

743. HARRY
What?! Mom, that’s crazy! I was in the bathroom…

744. EMILY
Don’t lie to me, baby. You hired the worst chauffer in the city to delay our progress. You had a secret hatch installed in the bus bathroom, so you could slip in and out undetected. And you left a pre-recorded “vomit tape” with voice recognition software. All very impressive for a sixteen-year-old. But you need to understand… the Green Goblin is not what your father wanted for you.

745. HARRY
I have no idea what Dad wanted for me…

746. EMILY
Then let him tell you…

747. NARRATOR
She slips a DVD into the computer and Norman Osborn appears on screen…

NORMAN OSBORN STANDS.

748. NORMAN
Harry, my son. If you are watching this, then I am dead. And I have instructions…

Norman, Emily and Harry sit. Big Man, Blackie and SHARI STAND.

749. NARRATOR
Meanwhile at the Big Man’s office, he and Blackie Gaxton are visited by Shari, a young woman wearing a pendant depicting an eye atop a pyramid…

750. BIG MAN
Thirty-six.

751. BLACKIE
Thirty-five.

752. SHARI
Nine. Any problems?

753. BIG MAN
Not particularly. Ms. Destine was ready to believe I could find Dracon and the others useful.

754. BLACKIE
And that faux Goblin was happy to believe I’d been fooled into thinking he was the real thing.

755. NARRATOR
Blackie removes his false face, revealing that he is actually the Chameleon in disguise.

756. CHAMELEON
Just as he was happy to believe I was the real Blackie Gaxton. But I’m still not sure why the Society wanted all this…?

757. SHARI
Isn’t it enough to know the Illuminati appreciates your efforts?

CHAMELEON and Big Man sit. THAILOG, BRENTWOOD, Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 And Homunculus #3 STAND.

758. NARRATOR
Shari leaves Lincoln’s office and pulls out her cellphone…

759. SHARI
Dial Nightstone Unlimited.

760. THAILOG
Alexander Thailog.

761. SHARI
The Spear? The Crown?

762. THAILOG
Waiting for you to send to Duval.

763. BRENTWOOD
Brentwood capture little robot. Use it to control other little robots. When bright light shine, robots take spear and crown.

764. SHARI
Lovely.

765. THAILOG
What should we do with the Homunculi?

766. SHARI
Set them free. Maybe they’ll get their own series some day.

767. HOMUNCULUS #1
Free, free, set them free…

768. HOMUNCULUS #2
On basic cable and DVD…

769. HOMUNCULUS #3
Jazz hands!

Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Shari, Thailog and Brentwood sit. Elisa and Goliath STAND.

770. NARRATOR
At the castle, Elisa’s cell rings.

771. ELISA
Maza… Yeah, Captain Stacy said you might call. Sure, he’s right here.

772. NARRATOR
She hands the phone to Goliath, who doesn’t quite know how to hold it. She takes it back and puts the call on speaker.

773. GOLIATH
Hello…?

Spider-Man STANDS.

774. SPIDER-MAN
Hey, Goliath. It’s your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man.

775. GOLIATH
You protect your… neighborhood.

776. SPIDER-MAN
Just like you do the super-hero thing without the tights.

777. GOLIATH
Spider-Man, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

778. SPIDER-MAN
Hey, I was just gonna say that. You saw that movie too?

779. GOLIATH
Movie?

780. ELISA
God, I love you… <kiss>

Elisa, Goliath and Spider-Man sit. Kafka STANDS.

781. NARRATOR
And finally â€" yes, finally â€" we end where we began. In the offices of Dr. Ashley Kafka at Ravencroft. She’s on the phone to her Board of Directors.

782. KAFKA
After all that tsuris, little has changed. Otto and Eddie are still disassociative. Max still needs a cure, and John still wants power. Cletus? He just keeps repeating, “I got a taste now,” over and over. Yes, we lost Dominic, I’m afraid. But we do have a new patient…

Dominique STANDS.

783. KAFKA (CONT)
…Dominique Destine.

784. DOMINIQUE
Just wait until the sun goes down…

Dominique and Kafka sit.

785. NARRATOR
The End.

THE END

NEXT: I finally get back to answering questions...


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Rachel N. writes...

Just as a brief FYI, in the May 2009 issue of Empire Magazine, on page 73 in an article about the movie "Angels and Demons", there's the following blurb:

"Unsurprisingly, the Illuminati often crop up as Hollywood baddies. As well as Angels & Demons, Lara Croft: Tomb Raider and TV cartoon Gargoyles feature the Illuminati, or Illuminati-associated wonks, as villains."

I just thought it was cool that they mentioned Gargoyles and made that connection.

Greg responds...

I agree!

Response recorded on July 17, 2009

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Todd Jensen writes...

I was recently rereading Roger Lancelyn Green's retelling of the Arthurian cycle (it was the January 2009 book for an Arthurian book club that I recently joined), and found this passage at the end of the section on the Quest for the Holy Grail:

"But when the last battle had been fought and the realm of Logres was no more, Percivale's kingdom made still a little light in the darkness of a Britain conquered and laid waste by the barbarians." (p. 248 of the old Puffin Books edition I bought as a boy).

Was this passage the inspiration (or at least, *an* inspiration) for your idea of Percival/Duval founding the Illuminati?

Greg responds...

Probably.

Response recorded on March 23, 2009

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Shadow Wing writes...

What was Mace Malone's number in the Society?

Greg responds...

Mace Malone was somewhere in the high 20s before he died.

Response recorded on October 21, 2008

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Greg Bishansky writes...

Just out of curiosity, the Norman Ambassador in "Vows." What was his Illuminati ranking?

Greg responds...

If I told you, I'd have to kill you. (Can't believe I've resorted to using that old chestnut.)

Response recorded on September 24, 2008

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Anonymous writes...

I've always been wondering, is the illuminati of great interest to you? Did you ever have to explain or get those references approved by Disney? Not that it's bad, it just seems to be pretty deep for a y7 cartoon.

Greg responds...

"Disney" never gave us any trouble over that. And I don't think the way we've handled it is all that depthful... or no more so than everything else. Kids get it well enough, if that's what you mean.

Response recorded on June 18, 2008

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MARCH 21

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

March 21st...

1058
In Avalon, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca and thirty-two other gargoyles and gargoyle beasts hatch out of their eggs.

1924
Mace disappears with a fortune in jewels to become a full-time operative for the Illuminati. He writes a letter to Dominic Dracon, taunting him with false clues about the location of the jewels.

2198
From around the globe, human heads of state and all twelve Gargoyle Clan Leaders come to Queen Florence Island for the hatching. The Space-Spawn attacks, abducting the gargoyle eggs and the human and gargoyle leaders, including U.N. Secretary General Alexander Fox Xanatos IV. And in Antarctica, Earth's Master Matrix Computer is stolen. The Space-Spawn invasion has begun.


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NOVEMBER 25

This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....

November 25th...

1995
Together, Matt Bluestone and Goliath turn the tables on Mace Malone, trapping him in the Hotel Cabal. Later that morning, Martin Hacker reveals he's been a member of the Illuminati all along. He welcomes Matt into the Society as a new member.



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