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Clan-Building Volume One

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C. David Cole writes...

Hi Mr. Weisman,

First I like to tell you that I'm a big fan of your work, especially Gargoyles, I sad that the series ended and that you didn't get chance to create the season 3 you envisioned; I hope that you get the opportunity to work with the series again someday and tell the rest of the stories you had in mind. Secondly, I like to thank you and the moderators in advance for taking the time out of your schedules to read my questions.

I read that when you worked on Spectacular Spider-Man you had a central theme for the series "The Education of Peter Parker." So I was wondering:

1. Did Gargoyles have a central theme? If so what was it?
2. Do you think that a series has to have a central theme?
3. Do you think that each episode within a series has to have its own theme? Can some episodes be non-theme oriented? (Ex: Can the heroes try to stop the villains from committing some terrible act without there being a deeper meaning to it.)

Greg responds...

I hope you've picked up our three Gargoyles Trade Paperbacks, which contains at least a portion of our Season Three.

1. I'm not sure I had it boiled down quite as clearly, but it was probably something along the lines of: "Don't judge a book by it's cover."

2. No. Not every series.

3. No. Not every episode. But most benefit from one, even episodes that are mostly one big fight.

Response recorded on December 10, 2012

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Roy writes...

First I'd like to say I really like your work on Gargoyles and the Spectacular Spider-Man, and thus far am really enjoying Young Justice. Keep up the great work.
I've recently finished reading Clan-Building for the who-knows-how-many-times-now and was wondering, has anyone who worked on Gargoyles (cast or crew) read it? If so what did they think about it? From the Gathering videos on Youtube it seems Keith David and Thom Adcox have really become fans of the show, so I assume they would like to see more of it. Also, given the fact they've attended many of the Gatherings it seems they're quite fond of the show. Also I would think Frank Paur was sure to check the comics given he co-produced the show with you. Michael Reaves seems also like someone how'd be interested in the comics given how tremendous his contribution to the show was.

I realize not every writer or voice actor of the show would still keep track of it 10 years or so after it was made, but the ones that I mentioned kinda gave me the impression they would be interested to read it.

Thank you for your time, and again keep up the great work.

Greg responds...

Don't know. You'd have to ask them.

Response recorded on April 12, 2012

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Todd Jensen writes...

Now that "Clan-Building" and "Bad Guys: Redemption" have been completed, and while we pause for a while (hoping that you and SLG will get to do further "Gargoyles" stories together), I thought I'd look over the Master Plan document you shared with us over ten years ago, and see how that was fulfilled in the eighteen chapters.

First, the spin-offs. "Bad Guys" obviously was represented here, with the six-chapter origin story for the Redemption Squad. Also, "Pendragon" and "TimeDancer" both found their way into "Clan-Building", "Pendragon" with the Stone of Destiny story in #7 to #9 (you even mentioned the Stone of Destiny story in the "Pendragon" section) and "TimeDancer" in #10 to #12, where we saw the beginning of Brooklyn's TimeDancing, his first adventure with Mary and Finella, and the end with his return to New York with his new family.

We also got a taste of "The New Olympians" with Terry Chung's cameos, and maybe even a trace of "Gargoyles 2198" when Peredur mentioned that Arthur wasn't expected to awaken for another two hundred years (Britain and the rest of the planet would definitely be in an hour of need then - definitely shades of "Camelot 3000"). Nothing directly from "Dark Ages", however (Brooklyn's adventure in 997 comes close, but it takes place three years after the Wyvern Massacre that would presumably have formed the series finale) - though we know that you planned to do a story about that next.

Now I'll turn to your list of the planned elements for "Gargoyles"'s third season from the same document.

The Quarryman problem: I would have liked to see a bit more of that (to serve as an antidote to the "Goliath Chronicles" depiction of the Quarrymen), but I enjoyed what we saw. Castaway in Invitation Only" and "Estranged" showed himself to be shrewd and prudent as well as vengeful; I liked the details of his forbidding the Quarrymen to carry hammers on Halloween patrol (in case they mistake costumed trick-or-treaters for gargoyles) and the television commercial that Robyn and Jason see making the Quarrymen seem more like a charitable organization to help people in need than like a hate group.

Xanatos' conversion: And, of course, we saw that he didn't change that much; he's as much a trickster as ever, even ready to, after stealing the Stone of Destiny for the Illuminati, give them another duplicate and keep the original for himself. Life with him is certainly going to be interesting for the clan.

Broadway and Angela's relationship: Not much of this (beyond the library scene), but we clearly see that they're a couple.

Goliath and Elisa's relationship: Definitely there, with the Double Date story and their reconciliation (especially the big moment in "The Rock" when they get back together).

The four Tricksters and Alexander: One of the few threads from your list that didn't get in, but there's always next arc.

The Illuminati: And how! We learn more about the Society, including its internal structure (I'm still delighted with the revelation of exactly how many membership slots there are), and several new members (new in the sense of being "new characters"): Quincy Hemings, Shari, and Falstaff, not to mention our look at Peredur, Duval, and Blanchefleur at the top. We also learn that Thailog's joined the Society (that was one of the biggest surprises in the comic for me), and Fiona Canmore's a member as well. And we get a hint, in the scene between Peredur and the Stone of Destiny in Carbonek, of what the Illuminati's goal is (or at least, what Peredur's goal for the Illuminati is). Not to mention we see more of their shrewdness, with Hacker presenting a different story about the Illuminati's intentions towards the gargoyles to Matt, Xanatos, and Castaway separately.

The Ultra-Pack: We haven't seen them yet, either, but I've no doubt that the big fight with Jackal, Hyena, and Wolf in Times Square is going to encourage the Pack to upgrade again. And after reading "Bad Guys", I have a strong suspicion who the new member will be.

Coldsteel and Coyote: We saw their team-up in the Stone of Destiny story (another of the big surprises was Xanatos using the Coyote Diamond to improve Coyote 5.0 - even after seeing how you keep on bringing back elements from earlier episodes and expanding on them, I hadn't foreseen that).

The Clones: And we saw much of them, as well. I think that almost everyone expected to see Thailog seek to recover the Clones - but we then had the treat of that adventure providing character development for Delilah (who became an especially appealing character in "Bash") and Brentwood.

So we got quite a lot of the MasterPlan in those eighteen chapters. And I hope, someday, we'll see even more of it.

Greg responds...

Me too!

It is almost amazing to me how... consistent the vision of the series has stayed over the years. I don't know if that's me being stubborn or me knowing a good thing when I stumble upon it or what, but although I'm constantly adding to the pre-canon in my head, most of the stuff I came up with as far back as 1994 is still valid.

Response recorded on February 25, 2010

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ACCESSIBILITY

So I've been lurking a bit, and I see folks are questioning the accessibility of the Gargoyles comics.

And I know I shouldn't do this, but I'm going to defend my own work here instead of just letting it stand on its own.

I totally reject the notion that the comics aren't accessible to new readers, unfamiliar with the GARGOYLES property. Now, granted Clan-Building, Volume II is pretty inaccessible IF you haven't read Clan-Building, Volume I. But in fairness to me, the Clan-Building arc is published in two volumes for commercial reasons, not creative ones. It's not two six-issue arcs; it's one twelve issue arc. So if you read Clan-Building in it's entirety OR if you read Bad Guys in it's entirety, I think both these arcs are extremely ACCESSIBLE.

And, yes, I've seen the reviews that claim that they're not. But I notice that those reviews are written by people who ARE passingly familiar with the cartoon and are making the ASSUMPTION that the books would be inaccessible to new readers. But I don't buy it. I've been doing this for a LONG time. And I know how to fill in my reader and/or viewer, introduce new concepts, etc.

Every issue in sequence introduces all the necessary information to a new reader that said reader would need. Does a reader benefit if they know all the backstory? Of course. But they don't have to know that backstory to enjoy the comic.

Let me take a specific example -- one that a reviewer specifically brought up. At the very end of issue #2 of Bad Guys, Sevarius appears. The reviewer (who knew exactly who Sevarius was) thought that I was blowing off new readers, because I gave NO backstory or introduction to Sevarius in that issue. But I'd argue that no introduction was necessary at that point. We've seen a mysterious figure descend into the Labyrinth, taser a guard, shed a disguise and confront Fang, claiming to know his real name and stating that he is Fang's "maker". That's ALL you need to know at that point as a new reader. It's perfectly okay if you DON'T know who this guy is. It's intriguing enough on that level. And in the very next issue (or chapter if you're reading the trade) Hunter gives all the backstory on Sevarius that you need to appreciate his role in issues/chapters #3 and #4. Yes, a hardcore fan is going to get extra juice when Sevarius pulls off his disguise because they'll recognize him. But even if Sevarius had been a brand new character, I wouldn't have handled his introduction any differently.

Look at Tasmanian Tiger. He is a new character. I hope he's at least a little bit intriguing. But is a new reader lost because they DON'T know that this is his first appearance? Readers, whether they are hardcore Garg fans or complete newbies, know as much about TT as they need to know -- and no more.

Yes, there are resources on the web -- BUT I don't count on those AT ALL, with one exception. And that exception is if people wonder why I'm ignoring Goliath Chronicles. And a new reader isn't even going to KNOW about Goliath Chronicles, so it's NOT an exception to him or her.

Otherwise, I use the tools I have within the book to explain what an audience needs to know. Someone familiar with the property may THINK the reader needs to know more, but I flat-out think they're wrong. My proof is anecdotal but it exists. I know people who've read the books and enjoyed them even though they never saw the show. Has it interested them in finding out more about the original series? Yes. And that's good and fine. But there's a difference between a new reader being intrigued and WANTING to learn more and a new reader being confused and NEEDING to know more to get what's going on.

You don't need to KNOW Brooklyn's entire history to know he's hurting because he can't get a date, to know he's pining for Angela and to know he's trying to get away from Angela and Broadway before chapter 10 of Clan-Building comes along -- and he's thrust into the past. Everything you NEED to know about him is present in issues 1-9. One benefits from knowing more, but that doesn't make it necessary to know more.

Of course, the greatest blockade to accessibility is the non-linear structure of chapters 7-9. But that's not property-based or familiarity-based, that's me using a non-traditional structure, which I might have done on an issue of, say, Captain Atom or Spider-Man or whatever. Hopefully, if a reader has read the first six chapters, they're intrigued enough to want to follow along despite the difficult structure.

Remember, issues 1 & 2 are designed to introduce you to the world of Gargoyles and any relevant information about said world. I got slammed by one reviewer for opening the comic book series with that adaptation of "The Journey", but I thought it was essential for new readers. One could argue fairly that each succeeding issue isn't as accessible as those first two, but complications and characters were added gradually through those first six issues. Anyone reading the book in order would not have been lost for a minute. If we hadn't been plagued by delays and late deliveries (which I had no control over and did not anticipate) it wouldn't have been the same kind of problem.

Any comic book or animated series that employs serialization and continuity is subject to these difficulties. And the middle chapter of any story (including a twelve-part story like Clan-Building or a six-part story like Redemption) can be tough to follow without having read the first few chapters. But just as I feel you can enjoy, say, "Leader of the Pack" without ever having seen any episodes from Season One of Gargoyles, I think Clan-Building can be enjoyed without having seen ANY of the Gargoyles TV series. Is the same true for "Avalon, Part Two" or "Avalon, Part Three"? No. But I think it IS true for "Avalon, Part One" and/or the three-part "Avalon" series when considered as a single unit.

My point is, I'm very familiar with the dilemma, and I know how to compensate. Or in any case, I'm VERY aware of the need to compensate. One can argue that I failed, I suppose. It does become subjective at some point. But nothing I did was done without very conscious thought on my part vis-a-vis the needs of a new reader. So any reviewer who claims that I didn't care or didn't try to make the book accessible is just -- well, wrong. And I think they are making assumptions based on THEIR knowledge of the richness of the property. They get all these resonances and call-backs, etc., and ASSUME a new reader would be lost without them. But you know what they say about the word "ASSUME". The resonances and call-backs are gravy. (And if you don't know they exist you won't know you're missing anything.) The meat, in my opinion, is all right there on the page.


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TRADE PAPERBACKS!

Hey gang,

I know -- and share -- the frustrations over the vague release dates of the two remaining trades. Both are DONE. So it's just an issue of getting them from the printers, through customs, out to Diamond and then into stores, etc.

BUT, Dan Vado has ASSURED me that all three trades (GARGOYLES, CLAN-BUILDING, VOLUME ONE; GARGOYLES, CLAN-BUILDING, VOLUME TWO; GARGOYLES: BAD GUYS, REDEMPTION) will be available for purchase at the Gathering. Hopefully, they'll be available everywhere sooner or at least shortly thereafter, but at the very least -- if you come to the con, you can get the books!


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Cartoonlover writes...

None of my local stores carry anything Gargoyles. Would buying it from Amazon suffice?

Greg responds...

Definitely!

Response recorded on June 02, 2009

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baron keels writes...

now that slg lost the rights to gargoyles, will the comic come back in another company?

Greg responds...

SLG still has the three trades, and they remain our best bet for more new material. Obviously, we'll have to see how these last two trades sell.

Response recorded on April 09, 2009

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TRADE NEWS!!!!!

Today, I e-mailed Dan Vado at SLG, asking about the two trades. Here's his response:

Hey Greg,

I was going to be emailing you this week.

Gargoyles I have scheduled for July, and that looks good for Comic-Con. Bad Guys I have scheduled for August and it a possibility for comic-con, but not a lock.

The Gargoyles trade will be in the May issue of Previews, I cannot stress enough that the fans really need to come out of the wood work on this one (not that they were in the wood work, but you know). They need to be "annoying" (i.e. pushy with retailers) as they can be because with the economy what it is right now nothing short of a huge groundswell of apparent demand wll get some of these guys (comic retailers and regular booksellers alike) to even buy a single copy. I am not a fan of getting people to be annoying, but this is going to be a case where it is needed.

Likewise Bad Guys (June Previews) will need an even BIGGER boost. I separated them because I did not want them to cannibilize each other sales-wise.

There you go, hope all is well with you...

Dan

So that's the news, both the good and the scary. I know I sound like a broken record. I know the fans shouldn't HAVE to be responsible for this, but if the fans don't, who will? I'll do my part. And Dan will do his, relative to his limited economic resources. But we NEED the fans to really step up and do two things:

(1) SPREAD THE WORD!!!! Please make sure EVERYBODY knows about these trades (and Volume 1 too).

(2) HARASS YOUR RETAILERS!! Make sure they KNOW how much you want these books. Pre-order them!! Put them on your pull lists!! Talk them up to every employee of every store!

Please!!

Remember, if these trades do well, we might be back with more original stories sooner than later. If they don't, it'll make it MUCH harder for SLG to justify risking more on the property, much harder to convince Disney that the property is viable and much harder to convince any other publisher to give us a shot.

Thanks,

gdw


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CLARIFICATION

CLARIFICATION

Hey gang,

There seems to be some confusion about where things stand with the comic books, so I'm going to try again to clear things up. The SLG license expired on 8-31-08. That means there will be no more individual comic book issues on either Gargoyles or Bad Guys.

However, SLG does still have the right to put all existing material out in the Trade Paperback format. They are also allowed to include Bonus Material in these trades.

Gargoyles: Clan-Building, Volume One will remain available, and as soon as possible, we will be putting out Gargoyles: Clan-Building, Volume Two and Gargoyles: Bad Guys: Redemption out in trade.

Gargoyles: Clan-Building, Volume Two will include (obviously) Gargoyles issues #7-8, but it will ALSO include what would have been issues #9-12, including the covers, as QUOTE-UNQUOTE Bonus Material. You WILL get to see the end of the Clan-Building arc. Currently, issue #9 is done except for a few minor lettering corrections. Issue #10 is being pencilled as we speak. Issue #11 has been scripted, and we are looking for the right artist to pencil it. Issue #12 is being scripted now. The trade will come out when ALL this material is complete and approved.

The Gargoyles: Bad Guys: Redemption trade will include (obviously) Bad Guys issues #1-4, but it will ALSO include what would have been issues #5-6, including the covers, as QUOTE-UNQUOTE Bonus Material. You will get to see the end of the Redemption limited series. Currently, issue #5 is done except for a few minor art corrections and the lettering. Issue #6 is scripted, and Karine will begin roughing it out shortly. The trade will come out when ALL this material is complete and approved.

Hope that clears things up.

Greg


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Rachel N. writes...

Hi Greg!
I got the Clan-Building Vol 1 TPB, and I think it's really great! I especially loved the Introduction by Wendy Pini. This past summer I attended the 20th Anniversary fan convention for the Beauty and the Beast TV series (1987-1990) where I got to meet Wendy Pini in person (she was a special guest at the Con). She's terrific, and I like the fact that being both a BatB fan and Gargoyles fan, she wrote the intro to this Gargoyles TPB.
My question is: Did you contact Wendy and ask her to contribute, or was she the one who contacted you to say she'd like to contribute an intro to the TPB?

Greg responds...

I asked her, and she very graciously agreed to do it.

Actually, any thoughts from anyone on who might be a good choice to write an intro to Volume Two?

Response recorded on March 11, 2008


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