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I noticed that in #3 and #4, we got to see a lot of familiar faces from the "minor characters", more than we usually saw in the average episode of "Gargoyles" in its first two seasons. These two issues, put together, included the following cast members (all ones from the first two seasons) besides the clan, Elisa, and the Xanatoses (including Owen): Matt Bluestone, Officer Morgan, Phil Travanti (in the sense that he showed up as Morgan's partner in a couple of episodes such as "Temptation", though unnamed), Margot and Brendan, Agent Hacker, Jason Canmore, Demona, Al, the Mutates (except for Fang), the Clones, Castaway, Thailog, Billy and Susan and their mother, Jeffrey Robbins, Gilgamesh, and Judge Roebling. Perhaps it's only my imagination, but this seems like a larger cross-section of the characters than I remember seeing in the televised episodes.
Does this have anything to do with the fact that you're now telling the story in the medium of a comic book, which means that you don't have to worry about paying voice actors and can thus freely bring more people into each episode? Or is this merely the result of the accumulation of characters in the original 65 episodes? ("The Journey", even in its televised form, itself had a substantial cast, including, alongside the clan, Elisa, the Xanatoses and Castaway, the following figures: Travis Marshall, the Jogger, Vinnie, Sarah Greene, Matt Bluestone, Banquo and Fleance, Margot, and Macbeth.)
It's really a combination of both. As I work on Spider-Man now, I have an on-going fight budgetarily as to how many characters I can put in any given episode... or rather how many actors I can hire. (It helps some when actors double up. For example, if I've got Brooklyn in an episode, I can get Owen for free. But if I also need the Magus, then Jeff Bennett get's a small additional payment. But if I ALSO need Bruno, then Jeff gets a FULL SECOND payment, as if I had hired a second actor to play Bruno. If I also want Matrix, I can get him for free with Bruno. If I also want young Macbeth, though, I need to make a second small additional payment. But if I ALSO need Vinnie, then I'm paying Jeff the same as three full other actors. And so on, heck with folks like Jeff or, say, Kath Soucie, this thing could go on ad infinitum.)
So, yeah, there is a certain liberation that comes with all the voices being in our heads and not behind actual microphones.
Beyond that, there's the scope thing. Look at Joss Whedon's new "Hey, no limits on my special effects or cast of thousands" Buffy comic. Same thing to some extent. I want the scope of the comic to be larger, because that's one of the strengths of that particular medium.
And still, part of it is VERY organic to the universe that we so carefully built through 65 television episodes. Nothing is wasted, and even the smallest character often inspired story ideas for me. (And I've had a decade to muse on all their stories, so frankly things are way MORE planned out now than they were back in the day, when we did plan ahead, but when our deadline pressure on the writing side was so incredibly crushing that often we were lucky as much as we were smart.) So it's natural that more and more of them will begin to have larger and larger roles. Some will whisp away for many issues and reappear when you least expect them. Others will be a constant presense. Others may not survive. Such is life...
I was reading somewhere that you really liked the character named Doctor Sato from the "Deadly Force" episode and had planned to use him more, but never had the opportunity to do so. I had to think back to remember who you were talking about, and I was wondering what you really liked about him. Also, now that you've started the comic books, will we be seeing Dr. Sato again in either a side role or a cameo?
Thank you for your time and all that you do.
How old is Martin Hacker?
In 1996, he was 44.
Top-o-the-milk-ta-ye-ma-lad. I've got some questions about the trio for you. The Canmore trio that is... :^B
1) I was wondering, since Jason's ID as a cop was phony, what about Jon's credentials as a news reporter?
b. Is Robyn Corry's Resume legit? I got the impression that she was much smarter and practical then her brothers, qualities that might come from a well-earned education at Sorbonne, and from real experience as a businesswoman.
2) Do ya think Robyn would take on a new last name as leader of the redemption squad?
b. Was Robyn Canmore's going to prison the end of Robyn Corry's carrier?
3) After taking on the role of John Castaway, did Jon have to discard his profession as a news reporter? The police probably realized that he had a double identity as Jon Carter since Maria Chavez figured that out in a scene that never aired. He also seemed to have done some slight plastic surgery to his face and that might be difficult to explain to his bosses at WVRN. It would probably be better for the Gargoyles that he doesn't have an influence in the media anymore, though I'm sure the Illuminati have other people in there.
4) Incidentally, besides serving as a subtle reference to the castle, what dose W.V.R.N. stand for?
5) What sort of relationship (if any) did Jon Carter have with Travis Marshal, and how do they feel about each other professionally?
6) Have those three had many other aliases in their lifetime?
b. If yes, did they have a variety of phony jobs, or did they tend to stick to the same thing.
c. Again, if yes, are any of these fake ID's still usable today
Thank ye kindly.
b. Largely phony.
2. No. But she also isn't quick to reveal her first OR last name to her teammates. They mostly know her as the Hunter.
b. You meant "career", right? If so, then, yeah. For now, anyway.
3. Yes, Castaway gave up being Carter. I don't think Jon got plastic surgery, just a haircut, a new wardrobe, a phony English accent and a mustache (oh, and an electrified hammer).
4. Doesn't stand for anything (except the in-joke). All television stations have four call letters assigned to them. East of the Mississippi, the call letters begin with a W. To the West, they begin with a K. Within those perameters, a station owner can choose it's own call letters (assuming no one else has already picked your choice).
The above is a HUGE hint as to who owns WVRN. Actually that last sentence is an even huger hint.
5. Not much of a relationship. Carter was clearly new to the station. Travis had been there for some time. They probably barely knew each other. Travis might have felt that Carter's reporting carried some sensationalism, but Carter could hardly be the only reporter in NY with that affliction. (And even the no-nonsense Travis is hardly immune.)
6. Uh... sure.
b. If something worked they might reuse.
If given the chance to revive the Gargoyles series, what role would you personally give to these mostly underused and/or underrated characters:
1. Fang- My favorite character, I wonder if he would be given the chance to become one of the typical " one-liner spitting good guy with bad attitude" character (something I would like) or become a mayor villain.
2. Maria Chavez- Would she ever meet the gargoyles?
Also, I would like to know how old Talon, Maggie, Claw and Fang are.
What follows is not meant to be all-inclusive, but just a sampling of my plans...
1. Fang was destined to join "BAD GUYS". That is he was forced to either join Bad Guys or serve a life sentence in prison. He chose the former. For more info on BAD GUYS see the Bad Guys Archive here at ASK GREG, or come to next year's GATHERING in Montreal to see the Bad Guys' story reel for yourself.
2. Ever's a long time. But I had no immediate plans to change either her position or her role within the show. We would have learned more about her home life though, including her daughter.
3. Claw would have remained a mainstay in the Labyrinth, though he also would likely have guest-starred in BAD GUYS.
4. Wolf would have joined the Ultra-Pack.
5. Delilah would also have remained in the Labyrinth. She and Goliath would attempt to "date", but it wouldn't work out.
Finally, my timeline shows the following birth years:
Claw - 1954
Fang - 1968
Talon - 1970
Maggie - 1975
1.By the time of the Journey, has Jeffery Robin's finished "the Sword and the Staff"?
2.If yes, was it a sucses?
3.Has Hudson read it? What did Hudson think?
1. I don't know. It could easily take an author a year to write a novel of any substance.
1) What year was Maria Chavez born in?
2) What is the name of Maria Chavez's daughter?
3) What year was she born in?
4) Who was her father?
1. Sorry. I don't have my timeline with me.
4. This has not been established.
I must sound stupid right now...but, I don't think this was asked before, cause I don't see it anywhere's. I was looking at a large archieve of LOTS of Garg pics, and noticed in City of Stone Part 2, Demona smashed two stone humans that looked just like Margret Yale and BRENDON! (I love the way she says his name)
Was that them? In which case, I take it they are dead. I liked Brendon, sorta, kinda felt bad for the poor sap, stuck with that bitch of a woman (scuse the langauage, but she was). She reminds me of some of my customers at a pet grooming shop. ;)
This has been asked before, and it wasn't them. Since they appear again in later episodes.
During the course of the series, New York was struck by a number of events of a decidedly "unusual" variety, and ones which obviously weren't completely covered up (even if the true cause of them wasn't known to its citizens). Gargoyle sightings were the obvious part, but also so were the "missing nights" in "City of Stone" and Oberon putting everyone to sleep in "The Gathering", for example. By the time that the gargoyles were revealed to the public in "Hunter's Moon", therefore, New York had experienced two years' worth of Fortean activity.
While the obvious main reason for the public panic over the gargoyles in "Hunter's Moon" and "The Journey" was simple fear over them, do you suppose that the cumulative aftereffects of the two years' worth of weirdness (especially from "City of Stone" and "The Gathering") could have been a factor as well? After all, in real life, unexplained ongoing problems can often lead to people looking for scapegoats, and persecuting minority groups thereby (as in the case of persecutions of the Jews getting more severe in 14th century Europe during the Black Death). Do you think that some of that could have been at work here?
Weirdness can in fact have a cumulative -- not simply a momentary -- effect.
To my question about future occurences of Jeffrey Robbins you said:
>Yep. (And you worry too much. I'm not paying that close >attention.)
1. I'm glad Jeffrey wasn't a one-time character to you. Even as a teenager I wanted to see characters with disabilities in animation, to reflect the wide variety of people in society as a whole. My sister and I co-developed a series years ago where a visually impaired character was prominent (maybe someday we'll get to do somethin with it). Fifteen years after I first got seriously interested in animation, I've seen a wide growth in character ethnicity but still not much in this area. It's one reason I loved working on EXTREME GHOSTBUSTERS and having Garrett (voiced by Jason Marsden, also Pvt. Brutto from ROUGHNECKS) as our wheelchair bound hero who was such a good character you practically forgot about the wheelchair. Jeffrey's the same kind of character. While portrayed as the character is, ultimately you see the person.
To make this into a question, especially now that I realize that the elder Brutto in ROUGHNECKS ends up in a similar situation (not sure whose choice that was though): without forcing it into the story, would you be open to incorporating more characters with disabilities in animated series?
2. Me worry too much? I think there's a space in line for you behind my father and Kevin on that one. If Mom or my sister think it they're not saying. (In other words I get told that a lot.) Won't deny it. But you do I have to remember I didn't know you that well back then... much changes in a year.
1. Absolutely. Robbins, of course, was never a one-shot character. For starters,even with TGC, he appeared twice. And I hate to take credit where credit's not due, but I actually do believe that bringing Sgt. Brutto back in a wheelchair WAS my idea. Certainly, I was the first to write him back that way in "Funeral for a Friend". Claw was mute. Renard was confined to a wheelchair. I'm not tooting my own horn here, I just think that maybe you're overlooking characters because they fit so naturally into the series that you forgot they were disabled. I also would love to do a hearing impaired animated character with Marlee Matlin doing the voice. She used to come into Rockets and I once had such a big crush on her that I swore that if she came in one more time, I'd ask her to marry me. (She must have sensed that cause she never came back.)
2. Uh.... (The big problem here is that you attribute better memory function to me than I actually have. What were we talking about?)
Could you give us a littler personal information about Maria Chavez? In "Future Tense" there is a woman with Chavez's picture who is generally presumed to be her daughter.
1) In the "real" world, does/will she have a daughter?
2) If so, when?
3) Does she have any other children?
4) Is Chavez married at the time of "Deadly Force" or "The Journey"?
2. I'm at home. Timeline is at work. Sorry. Ask again later.
3. Not as of 1996.
What was Vinni's job from between "the cage" and "vendettas". Was it using that fork lift at the docks and he just happened to find Goliath and Hudson? If so, why was Mr.C with him? And did he lose his job again for sinking the fork lift? If not, was he hunting the Gargoyles?
He hot-wired that forklift. He was unemployed between "The Cage" and "The Journey".
Hi! It was great seeing you again at this year's Gathering. (Insert tons of compliments, comments and the like, regarding that event).
Anyway, you wrote:
I don't have any more plans for the pie gun.
But I have very specific plans for the guy the pie gun was named after.
And I just, belatedly, realize that Carter is the alias that Jon Canmore uses in Hunter's Moon. If I remember correctly, that in your plans, Castaway was NOT Jon Canmore... is he (Canmore) the one you are referring to?
It always seemed to me that Jon having access to TV, via being a newscaster, had more influence to the public at large than being the head of an obvious Klan rip-off.
So, be oblique and witty about this?
No, in my development Canmore was definitely Castaway.
It's the people who took over from me who didn't seem to want to acknowledge that.
... as for the original to Mr. Carter.... I'm not in the mood to reveal that right now...
But, hey, Mara, where's your Gathering diary, huh?
You just this second awnsered my question about Mr Catter, and now I have to ask, who was Vinni's pie gun named after?
I really enjoyed the Gathering this year. Many thanks to you and the staff for getting all the guest panelists.
My husband is a rather shy type; he thought the following question during the production seminar, but didn't even tell me until several days after the Gathering.
What is the silliest idea you ever had, and what is the silliest idea you ever pitched?
Pitched? I don't think I ever pitched anything that I didn't legitimately believe would make a good show.
Including a shot of Michael Eisner getting his rug yanked off by one of the "Quarks" in the pitch for that show, might have been the single STUPIDEST thing I ever pitched. (You'll notice we never did make "Quarks".)
As for silly ideas, I get a lot of those. There's this notion about a guy named Vinnie, who....
What did Elisa do with her day when the Gargs went to sleep in one of the countries they viseted? Shadows of the past for instance?
What did Elisa tell the Police when she got back from the World tour, to explane her absence?
How does Elisa explane how she keeps loosing her guns? Does she jut tell the police that she melted it down to make a bell? Does she get in much trouble for it?
She often slept too. Sometimes maintained a vigil. Sometimes explored a bit, as she did in Paris.
Personal leave. She'd have been in bigger trouble had Chavez not been in immediate need for an undercover operative to enter Brod's organization. Elisa's absense from New York during the period of Brod's arrival and establishment made her the perfect candidate. The good results from that operation tended to brush Elisa's shortcomings under the rug -- for now.
Elisa's usually on the verge of being in trouble. Fortunately, she had a strong arrest and conviction record even before meeting the gargs. They've improved her record a bit too. Plus her boss genuinely likes her. Even if she doesn't always show it. (And Maria also has a lot of respect for Peter Maza. He used to be her boss, long time back.)
Where is the Eerie Building located exactly in New York? I would like a general idea of where its located. And if you could give the street name its on, thats fine too. If not, how close to the Empire State Building, Crysler Buidling, Center Park, World Trade Center, or Hudson River is it?
So...to help you on this. Your standing on the promenades of the Observatory of the Empire State Building.
North of you is Center Park and the Crysler Building
East of you is the Hudson River (i think)
West- dont know whats west of the ESB
South of you are the twin towers of the World Trade Center.
East would be the East River. West would be the Hudson River.
And it's CenTRAL Park and the Chrysler Building.
Anyway, it's on Central Park South, I believe. Directly across the street from the park. If you look at a map of the city it should be pretty clear.
And it's Eyrie Building. Not Eerie.
I know generally TGC is avoided in this forum, but since you wrote "The Journey":
Was there any significance to why Vinny was sent to Japan? Did you envision showing him and the Japanese Gargoyles at some future point?
And "The Journey" is absolutely within the purvue of this forum. My last episode.
did you ever consider involving "The Daily Tattler" in an episode beyond Hyena and Xanatos's brief mentioning of it?
will "The Daily Tattler" play any role in any spin-off?
i'm also really curious where you'll put this question in the archives, it doesn't fit any categories i don't think, oh well... :)
Eventually, it would have had a larger role. Eventually everything does.
And, geez, I have so many categories now, I can't hold them all on one screen. There must be somewhere to put it.
Is Flo Dreedle really dead?
hello¡ my question is:
In manhattan, ebribody have a moderns pistols, but elisa have a old pistol.why?
(I´m sorry, my english is not good because i´m spanish)
Um. Elisa has a modern pistol. So does Matt and most of the cops. Some of the crooks, however, are using the technology that Dracon stole from Xanatos in "Deadly Force".
along the same lines as Todd's last question, who is Dane?
Jack "Danforth" Dane. Son of movie star Flo Dane (aka Florence Dreedle). Step-son of Mace Malone. Criminal. Was once a member of the Dracon gang. Turned against them for undisclosed reasons. Joined the Federal Witness Relocation Program, but eventually abandoned his "Danforth" identity to join Tomas Brod's operation.
in "Turf" Mace Malone's bitter stepson (sorry, can't recall his name) has joined Thomas Brode's gang. in one scene Brode, some thug, Elisa in disguise, and the stepson are being questioned by Matt in a restaurant. didn't Matt recognize Malone's stepson from "Revelations"? or vice versa? afterall, Matt did track this guy down, and his discovery changed Matt's life in many ways after it. what were their reactions to each other, if they even saw each other, which they must've.
I don't think the restaurant was Matt's first encounter with Jack "Danforth" Dane since Jack rejoined the NYC crime scene. I also don't think either Matt or Jack thinks he owes the other one anything.
A quick thing about OUTFOXED:
When I saw Vogel, a near-twin of Owen, I chuckled to myself and thought "Oh, there's gonna be something interesting behind that!"
Time to Ramble...
Fueled by (what I perceived in my own mind to be) the success of "City of Stone", I began to get more daring in my story structure. In Revelations, Cary and I utilized the time-honored tradition of "in medias res", where a story starts in the middle and catches the viewer up along the way. (Thanks, Homer.)
We also used voice over narration for the first time. It's interesting because Matt just seemed like a perfect character to do that kind of Philip Marlowe naration. But at the same time, it was daring, because of course, Matt is not a regular. The audience didn't know him that well. I think it showed the strength of our supporting cast that Matt could carry a show like this. Of course, having the massively talented Tom Wilson playing Matt helped. I knew he could handle it. And he did. Tom is terrific and VERY funny in the booth. I hope someday he gets his own tv show. (I also loved him as Coach Fredericks on Freaks & Geeks.)
The basic springboard for this episode came from four sources.
1. The notion that eventually Matt would have to find out about the Gargoyles. We didn't want to just throw it away or constantly come up with new excuses why he had "just missed them" or whatever.
2. Matt's pursuit of the Illuminati. What began as a Michael Reaves throwaway line in "The Edge" had evolved into its own subplot. Cary's "Silver Falcon" had taken us to the next level of hearsay. It was time to finally bring the Society into the series.
3. Disney's desire to do a cross-over event with their new "TOWER OF TERROR" ride down in Orlando. Unfortunately, they had wanted this much earlier -- in 1994. We had piggy-backed our World Premiere Screening of Gargoyles down in Florida in September of 1994 with the press event for the Tower's Grand Opening. (That's how Keith David, Marina Sirtis, Salli Richardson, Gary Krisel and I wound up riding the Tower of Terror together on the night before it opened to the general public.) But this was the soonest we could fit the notion into our continuity. You'll see in the memo that I just posted previous to this ramble, that when we were at the outline stage, I was still trying to more firmly tie the two properties together. Partway through the script process, someone at Disney changed their mind. They didn't want the tie-in anymore. I shrugged, I think. And the HOLLYWOOD TOWER became the HOTEL CABAL.
4. An episode of the British TV series, THE AVENGERS, called something like "The House That Jack Built". This was a classic that we ripped off shamelessly. (Wait, wait, I mean we paid it homage shamelessly.) It was about this nutty house designed, I believe, to trap spies inside and drive them bonkers and break them. Sound familiar? John Steed and Emma Peel redone as Goliath and Matt. Didn't you notice the resemblance?
(Gee, so far I've credited Raymond Chandler, Homer and THE AVENGERS as influences. What a fun episode.)
We reintroduced Hacker, mostly so that we could bookend him at the end as Matt's new Illuminati contact. This was something that Cary and I planned as far back as Silver Falcon. We always had to keep Hacker's agenda straight. Make sure any info he gave Matt was a wild goose chase, at least as far as Hacker knew.
In this episode, and only in this episode, Maria Chavez is played by the talented Elisa Gabrielli (also known as Obsidiana). Rachel Ticotin, our usual Chavez, was just unavailable. So Elisa filled in. She has a lighter sound. But I think it works. Did anyone notice? Both Elisa and Rachel are great. I used Elisa as the Doll Demon in 3x3 Eyes (now available on VHS and DVD).
My 3 year old son Ben, who at this point is used to me writing down what he and his older sister says during these viewings told me to write down the following: "When it's night, Demona's a gargoyle. When it's day, she's a human. He likes it when Demona's a human." This had absolutely nothing to do with this episode, but hey, who cares?
I really loved what Ed Asner did with the throwaway character of Jack Dane. "Tell him he's a bum." Dane was so much fun, I brought him back for TURF later.
Matt climbs into the clock tower and finds the TV he helped Elisa with on the day they met. That was fun. This whole episode ties back to Matt's Illuminati musings in "The Edge". It was nice to find another connection. Also, Elisa's been lying to him as long as they've known each other. Nice to remind the audience of that as well.
I like the "family of gorillas" line.
"The Dental Plan" line is vintage Cary Bates.
Elisa: "Matt, you haven't said three words all night..."
Matt: "Let me drive." HEY! THREE WORDS! :) This is fun because, I always thought of Elisa as someone who was such a control freak, she never let her partner drive her car. A big part of this episode, though it could easily sneak past you what with everything else going on, is revealing more facets of Elisa's personality. We learn much more about her and she grows here too.
It's fun to establish Xanatos as "a lower eschelon member". Immediately makes the Illuminati impressive, if Xanatos barely registers on their scale. Also sets up eventual conflicts with him.
First act cliffhanger: Here the threat is Matt. Again, how well did you all think you knew Matt? Here we're inside his point of view -- his narration. But we still try to play him edgy enough that we don't know if he'll kill them both. It helps that we opened with the shocker that he betrayed Goliath to Mace. How many people bought that? Thought Matt was the Judas that Mace said he was?
Anyway, I really like this scene. Elisa yelling at Matt. Matt getting out of the car and yelling at... no one. And Elisa's quiet revelation that Matt isn't crazy... "They don't follow me everywhere." Again, this line was as important for Elisa as for Matt. Sure she can count on the Gargoyles for help. But I never wanted it to seem like Lois and Superman. Like he was always around or would here her with super-senses everytime she screamed. Most of the time, Elisa's on her own.
"This time I'll drive."
Fun to see the gargoyles reactions when Matt is introduced. Goliath's not upset. He appreciates that Elisa has a loyal partner and probably gave her permission to bring Matt in from the cold long before. The truth is they know Matt already.
Elisa: "better late than never".
And then immediately Goliath is suspicious. "Trust is not... to be bartered."
As creators, we were playing both ends here. Omitting pieces of conversation. Trying to get the audience to believe that Matt might in fact be betraying G. But also making it believable that in hindsight, he wasn't. Not cheating, in other words.
At this point, my six year old daughter Erin said: "I don't like Bluestone in this one. He's usually very nice. But in this one he's mean." That's how she saw him. Not righteously angry with Elisa for the lies. Just mean.
It took remarkably more effort than I'd have expected to get things to hook up with our Teaser from the beginning of the act. To help, I reused a couple of Mace's line as prompts to the audience.
It's fun to hear Tom Wilson playing Matt playing at being a bad guy.
I like all the hotel references. "Check out time" etc.
Mace falls down the shaft and grabs the cables with his bare hands. One hundred years old or not, that's gotta hoit.
I like Matt using his coat as a parachute. That wouldn't be necessary except for that darn Gallileo. If it weren't for him, Goliath, being heavier, could have fallen faster than Matt to catch up to him. :)
And of course, I enjoy the irony of Mace being trapped in a Hell of his own making. And i like the notion that the Illuminati just left him there to rot. He had outlived his usefulness. A non-member had found him thanks to his annoying sentimental habit of visiting Pine Lawn. AND he had failed to hold the Gargoyle in the Cabal. Breaking a perfect record. Woops.
Goliath refers to Bluestone as his friend. That's to make sure the audience is clear that Goliath was in on the plan from the beginning. Later, I gathered, some people still didn't get that.
We have a great Turning to Stone sequence here. Every once in a while it's nice to remind the audience that this is unique and special. Seeing it through a new characrer's eyes is a great way to do that.
I love Elisa and Matt's conversation. Elisa reveals that she's subconsciously been keeping the gargs to herself because it made her feel special. Explains a lot about "Her Brother's Keeper", doesn't it? And Matt admits to something similar. I think we all do little things to help ourselves stand out, even if no one notices them but us.
Maria then helps us see that Matt and Elisa are going to be okay.
And finally, our Hacker tag. (This episode had like six tags.) Matt gets his pin. I thought that was kinda cool...
What say all of you....
In Prep for my coming RAMBLE on REVELATIONS, here's the memo I wrote to Story Editor Cary Bates in response to his outline...
Notes on "Revelations" Outline...
I was very concerned that the first act and much of the second act came across as prologue to our adventure. And yet most of it is necessary stuff. So I think we should open the story with GOLIATH trapped in the "house that Jack built" (HTJB) and flashback from there. Probably with MATT narrating the whole story in Voice Over.
I've suggested act breaks, but you don't have to feel married to them, if the timing or page count seems wrong.
Also, I didn't suggest any specific revisits to the HTJB (after the prologue) until our story brings us back there chronologically. If you want to revisit the present in the HTJB a few times to remind the audience of the current situation and to up the action with Goliath facing another death trap, go for it. Totally up to you.
I also moved the Hacker scene up, so that he can bookend the show a little more. In his first scene, he'll still be telling Matt that the Society is a myth. In his last scene, he'll be inviting Matt to join.
HTJB/MOUNTAIN RETREAT/TOWER OF TERROR/SEEDY HOTEL
It's a bit of a stretch to believe that Goliath would go to this "Mountain Retreat" with Matt. What do they hope to accomplish there, besides illegal search and seizure? Matt's "informant" is fishy beyond belief. So is the gizmo that gets them past the security perimeter. The point of which is lost on me, since they are immediately spotted by security forces. How does defeating these forces help? THEY'VE BEEN SPOTTED. What can they hope to accomplish now? These security guards can't radio inside to hide or destroy whatever data there might be? It's all adding up to a big old fishy mess. And yes, I realize that the Illuminati want Goliath inside and that Goliath wants to get "trapped" in order for Matt's plan to work out, but it's too convenient to say everyone is intentionally acting like idiots. The audience won't be in on it. They'll just be getting frustrated. By the time we reveal the truth, they'll just generally feel the whole story was contrived.
So let's start by ditching the mountain retreat. I like the Seedy Hotel better. Someplace that from the outside seems like a totally non-descript Manhattan building. Maybe it's boarded up and condemned. Getting in is not a problem. They land on the roof and sneak inside. But getting out is impossible.
The hotel is really the "House That Jack Built". Yes, steel shutters slam shut, trapping Goliath, but more importantly, we should really lose our bearings inside. Goliath rips open a window that he thinks leads outside, only to find it's a false facade that leads into another room. At another point, he thinks he has gotten back onto the roof. But this turns out to be another interior room, with a domed ceiling painted with stars. Another room has all the furniture on the ceiling and the razor sharp ceiling fan on the floor. Maybe another room rotates. Think about optical illusions, Escher paintings, etc. The death traps are fun, but we've done them before, so it's the mind-bending surreal stuff that will make this place special.
Also since the powers-that-be have asked, and since it fits our story, please refer to this place at least once as the "TOWER OF TERROR" and do at least one death trap with a rapidly falling elevator. This is "Synergy" with the Disney/MGM theme park's TOWER OF TERROR ride in Florida. I wouldn't suggest it if it didn't fit, but it fits just fine and that kind of goodwill never hurts. The name of the hotel should be the Hollywood Tower, cause that's the name in the ride. Now I know that seems like a weird name for a manhattan hotel, but if you figure it was built in the thirties or forties, during Hollywood's heyday, you can RATIONALIZE that even a New York Hotel would want to associate itself with the glamour of Hollywood. O.K. It's a stretch, but go for it.
MATT AND SECRECY
THE THEME OF OUR STORY IS TRUST. Hit it as much as possible. However, I don't want to replay Matt's emotional arc from Silver Falcon. He learned his lesson in that story. He no longer runs off without telling Elisa where he's going or what he's doing. Matt's honesty at the beginning of the story will contrast nicely with Elisa's deception about the gargoyles and with Matt's later bitter, furtive behavior. He can't feel too betrayed by Elisa's lies if he opened the story lying to her as well.
In your beat #9, Goliath is behaving completely out of character. He may never have been introduced to Matt, but he's seen him from a distance and knows who he is. He must know from Elisa that Matt is a good guy. His long-term goal in Manhattan is to find acceptance with a growing number of humans. Elisa was the first (and is still the foremost), but Renard is a friend of Goliath's now. Jeffrey Robbins the novelist is a friend of Hudson's. Goliath tried to convince Elisa to tell the truth to her brother, etc. And in any case, he's not likely to physically assault someone for doing nothing else but looking at them. I know you want to set up a tense dynamic, but the one in beat 9 is totally artificial. So drop it.
BOTHERSOME QUESTIONS THAT MUST BE DEALT WITH IN THE SCRIPT
1. Why was it necessary for Mace to vanish in the twenties? (Perhaps he was recruited by the Illuminati, but was about to get busted for his criminal operations with Dracon. So he vanished with the money, and the Illuminati set him up with a new life. But why did they want him? Why would they bother?)
2. Why would Mace give up his glamorous gangster life to live in a seedy hotel for the Illuminati? (He obviously wouldn't. So let's not imply that he did.)
3. How did Matt make the connection between Mace and the Illuminati in the first place? (This question must get answered in this episode. In "Silver Falcon", the old photo of Mace and Dominic will depict Mace wearing the Illuminati pyramid/eye emblem. But don't count on the audience noticing or remembering that. And don't forget that Matt thought Mace was involved with the Society long before he saw that photo in Benton's office.)
4. Did Matt just get phenomenally lucky that he happened to go to Flo's grave at the same time as Mace? Was he planning on setting up 24 hour surveillance? Did he have some way of knowing that Mace visits and when?
5. How does Mace being alive prove the existence of the Illuminati? (Hint: it doesn't, by itself. See question #3.)
Mace was a prominent gangster when he disappeared in 1924. If you figure he was about thirty, he'd be 100 now give or take five years. I think we should make a point of this. He looks great, thanks to the Illuminati's rejuvenation techniques. Like a man of 75 or 80. But he proudly tells Matt that today's his 100th birthday, or something like that.
1. Establishing shot of the Seedy Hotel. It's Friday night. Inside, Goliath is already alone. The steel shutters slam shut, trapping him inside, a mysterious voice (Mace) welcomes him to the "Tower of Terror". Maybe activate a death trap or two. Maybe Goliath finds an open window, but it leads back inside. Maybe the ceiling comes down on him or something.
2. Cut to the control room, where we see Goliath on a monitor. Mace is at the controls. (We don't yet know who he is.) And then pull back to see Matt looking over Mace's shoulder. We can't believe Matt is helping to trap and kill Goliath!! Push in on Matt. In his voice over, we find out he can hardly believe it either, it all began last Tuesday....
3. First flashback begins. Last Tuesday. It's the FBI target range and the scene with MARTIN HACKER. (Don't take for granted that the audience knows Hacker. Reintroduce all the necessary, pertinent info about him, Malone and the Illuminati -- pretend they've never been mentioned before this episode.) Hacker can't believe Matt is still chasing Mace Malone and the Illuminati. It's a wild goose chase that got him fired from the Bureau. When will he learn his lesson? But Matt is determined. He's going to prove the existence of the Illuminati, prove that he's not a nutcase. So Hacker gives him the info that he asked for: the location of Malone's step-son, a mobster who's part of the Federal Witness Relocation Program. (Hacker gives him this location because he knows that Malone's step-son has no idea where Malone is.)
4. Tuesday Night. Later at the precinct house, Matt sees Captain Chavez coming out of the Ladies room. He asks her if Elisa is in there. She says no. Matt doesn't get it. Her car is here, but he can't find her.
He finally finds Elisa exiting the broom closet. Has she been sitting in a closet for the last twenty minutes? Of course, not. She was just, uh... returning a mop. One of the sinks in the ladies' room overflowed. That's where she's been (yeah, that's the ticket) cleaning up a flood in the Ladies' Room. Matt is so stunned by her obvious and clumsy lie, that he doesn't immediately confront her with it. Unaware that she's been caught in a lie, Elisa quickly changes the subject. Why was Matt looking for her? He's got a lead on the Illuminati. After the Silver Falcon debacle, he's learned his lesson about keeping his partner in the dark. (He says pointedly.) He just wanted to let her know where he's going to be tomorrow. (As with Hacker, Elisa likes Matt but seems to only tolerate his obsessions. There's the tiniest bit of a patronizing attitude toward them. Perhaps Matt invites her along on his investigation, but she thinks it's a waste of time. She's nice about it, but Matt's V.O. narration lets us know that he knows she thinks he's a kook. Same with Hacker in the scene above.)
5. Wednesday. Matt confronts Malone's step-son, JACKSON DANE (or whatever) at the gym (or wherever). (Jackson's 80 if he's a day, but he can have Ferrigno-sized goons. Though you need to be careful that Matt doesn't come across as a dirty or rogue cop. I don't want him to break any laws.) Matt asks Jackson about Mace. Dane hasn't seen Mace since he was a little kid. Matt pulls out a photo that was taken at the memorial service for Jackson's mother (Mace's ex-wife), actress Flo Dane, when she died fifteen years ago. It was a big deal thing. We see a picture of Jackson in the front row. Did Jackson see Mace at the funeral. No. Matt takes out a second picture. A blow up of people in the back row. He points to one. Jackson looks carefully, and whaddaya know? It's Mace. Now Matt wants to know where Flo Dane is buried. Jackson says that his mom didn't want her grave to become a tourist attraction, so she was buried under her real name, FLORA DREEDLE. Did Mace know that name? Yes, he did.
6. Wednesday, just before sundown. Back at the precinct, Elisa asks Chavez if Matt's checked in yet. No. Elisa goes up to see the gargoyles. We follow her into the broom closet. The pull-down ladder is already down. She nervously pulls her gun and goes upstairs. Only to find Matt there. She's under time pressure to get him out of there, since it's nearly sunset. He points to the t.v. set. He remembers helping her bring that into the precinct the day they met. She had said it was for a friend. She pretends that this is her little getaway spot when police life gets too intense. Some getaway spot. An old lounge chair. A hot plate. Video game equipment. Books. Enough food for a family of gorillas. She says she may be bending a few regulations, but she's not breaking any laws. Don't tell Chavez, o.k.? (She has got to get him downstairs.) So how'd it go with Mace's step-son? He's still highly suspicious, but enthusiastic enough about filling her in on Mace that he allows her to guide him back downstairs. Matt has checked with the funeral home. Some old man shows up there every Thursday and leaves a rose for Flora Dreedle. It's a long shot but Matt is going to be there tomorrow to find Mace Malone.
7. Thursday. Matt finds Mace Malone, who goes into a bit of denial, but we'll give him an Illuminati tattoo on the palm of his hand (or something). Mace relents, impressed. The Illuminati has been aware of Matt's quest. They've thrown multiple roadblocks in his way, and still Matt found Mace. The Society has clearly underestimated the boy. Mace offers Matt membership based on a loyalty test. Matt: You want me to prove my loyalty? How do I know I can trust you? Mace: Fair question. What if I prove good faith by revealing a bit of information donated by one of our lower echelon members, David Xanatos. Matt's listening.
8. Very late Thursday night. Elisa and Matt are driving in her car. She's driving. She asks him if everything's all right. The shift's almost over and he hasn't said three words all night. "Let me drive," he says [exactly three words]. No way -- it's my car, she replies, only half-kidding. He INSISTS. She relents, realizing he's pretty upset about something. It's a very awkward moment. She has to stop the car, get out and switch sides with him. He's silent the whole time. He drives. Where are they headed? He ignores the question, but tells her that today he found Mace Malone. That's great, she says, but you're driving awfully fast. He ignores that too, saying he feels like he's on a streak. Now that he's proven the Illuminati exists, he's about to prove the existence of another urban myth that he's been taunted for believing in. Matt, she yells, you're driving us right into the path of some kind of danger!! That's right he says, and the only way we can be saved is if your gargoyles save us.
9. Elisa manages to wrest the wheel from him and turn the car into a very uncontrolled 360° skid. Thank god for seat belts. They barely survive. Elisa is furious at Matt! What the heck does he think he's doing?! He's trying to get his partner to tell him the truth. He gets out of the car and yells to the sky. "I know you're out there! Show yourself!" Nothing happens. No gargoyles appear. Elisa gets out of the car. Matt's expecting another lie. But all she says is, "They don't follow me everywhere I go." They look at each other. C'mon, she says. I'll drive. (NOTE: I don't think we need to bring up informants. Elisa can believe that Matt has put two and two together from all the lies she's had to tell in the first act.)
10. But by the time they get back to the precinct it's dawn, early Friday morning. Too late, she says. He doesn't buy it. He knows that set-up in the clock tower must be for them. She's still reluctant to tell him the whole truth. Look, she says, you have to be patient for a little while longer. (Note: she has not actually apologized yet.) Meet me back here this evening. Ten minutes before sunrise.
11. Friday. Mace and Matt meet again. Has Matt seen the gargoyles yet? Tonight. But the information was correct? Yes, she friends with them. The Society has demonstrated good faith. Does Matt still want to join? Yes. Then you're willing to take the loyalty test? Yes, what do I have to do? Bring us a gargoyle.
12. Friday at twilight. Matt and Elisa head out the clock face's door (at roman numeral VI) Matt sees the statues of the gargoyles and gets pissed again. No stone statues are going to fool him. He knows they're flesh and blood. He's seen them (in previous episodes). She says hold on and stand back. The sun goes down. The gargoyles explode from stone. Milk this for all the awe and majesty, etc., that it's worth. Seeing it from Matt's point of view, we should all feel like we're seeing it again for the first time. The gargoyles approach. They all know Matt, even if he doesn't know them. Even Bronx is friendly. Matt is awestruck. Speechless. Elisa tells Matt that the Gargoyles have adopted the city and protect it as they once protected their castle in Scotland long ago. She asks him to keep the gargoyles' secret. He says he will, but he wants something in return. Goliath doesn't love the idea of being blackmailed into anything. Matt says he's tracked Mace to a seedy condemned hotel. He's sure he can get proof of the Illuminati's existence if he could just get into the hotel, but it's locked and boarded up on the ground floor. He needs Goliath's help to enter via the roof. The other gargoyles offer to help, but Matt isn't trying to lay siege to the place, he just wants to sneak in and sneak out. All he needs is Goliath. Elisa wants to go, but Matt specifically doesn't want her to. Why? Because I want to find out once and for all whether you trust me. So Goliath takes off with Matt. (AND I think we can assume that Matt filled Goliath in on his plan on the flight over to the seedy hotel.)
13. Friday night. They land on the roof of the hotel. With Goliath's help, they break into the stairway and go inside. Almost immediately, Matt is forcibly separated from Goliath and spirited away to join Mace in the control room. Mace is very pleased with Matt. He presses a button and steel shutters slam home in a repeat of scene 1. Which brings us up to date, end on a cliff hanger and go to commercial.
14. Play Goliath in the HTJB. Have fun with it. You've got most of the act. Meanwhile, Matt asks Mace how long they plan to keep Goliath here. Why, we can keep him here forever. He'd never find his way out without help. So Matt has to secretly help Goliath. But you can't have that signal device. Where would Matt get it from? He's not Batman. So think of something else. Ultimately, they escape leaving Mace hopelessly lost inside the surreal world of his own making. (That's the Illuminati's punishment for him. He can die of dehydration there, some time in the future and we don't have to portray it or worry about S&P.) All this is done in such a way that the Illuminati would later blame Mace not Matt. If you need help to choreograph this, give me a call.
15. Pre-Dawn Saturday morning, Goliath and Matt return to the clock tower where Elisa and the others are waiting. We find out definitively that Matt tipped Goliath off to his plan on the way to the seedy hotel. He was hoping to join the Illuminati -- so he could bust them from the inside, but in order to escape, they had to trap Mace, his only Illuminati connection, in the HTJB, so it was all for nothing. Matt watches with Elisa as the Gargoyle's turn to stone. (Again, milk this. Through Matt's eyes it should feel like the first time.) Elisa and Matt have their little scene. She finally apologizes. He asks why she kept it a secret from him. And etc.
16. Matt walks outside and there's Hacker, who reveals that he's a member of the Illuminati who had been assigned to Matt to keep him away from the Illuminati. Matt can't believe it: Hacker helped him with info. Only info that Hacker thought led down a dead end. Matt just figured a way to do an end run around the dead ends. No hard feelings. Anyway, he always liked Matt, so he's proud to give him his official Illuminati membership pin. Matt doesn't get it. The society lost the gargoyle. Mace's fault, not Matt's. Hacker promises to keep in touch. He hops in an unmarked car and drives off. After he's gone, Matt says something determined about keeping in touch too. This isn't over.
Why did the FBI fire Matt? Did they just think that he was too much of a nutcase, or was there some darker reason (such as pressure from the Illuminati) involved?
Some time ago, I heard a fellow "Gargoyles" fan say that he considered Matt something of a hypocrite in that, while he was setting out to expose the Illuminati to the world, he was willingly joining in the efforts to keep the gargoyles a secret and hiding them, even after he became the head of the Gargoyle Task Force - and also condemned Elisa for keeping the gargoyles a secret, especially from Captain Chavez. I didn't agree with that person, feeling that there was a difference between exposing a ruthless and machiavellian secret society that's meddling in everybody's lives and exposing a group of extremely rare beings who have to hide from the world because most humans consider them monsters and would hunt them down if they knew about them, but I felt vaguely bothered by it, and thought that I'd ask you what your thoughts on the matter were.
My reasoning is similar to yours, but I can also live with the notion that Matt is in fact being a bit of a hypocrite -- for a good cause.
As a writer, I LIKE the stress that dilemma will eventually cause. Human beings are complex. We contain multitudes.
Would Rosiara Sanchez or Peter Choi (the heroic teens from the newspaper story in _High Noon_) have made an appearance in a future episode of GARGOYLES? (Given its history of sneaking in foreshadowings....)
Was the cop riding with Officer Morgan in _Temptation_ his partner?
A tongue-in-cheek riff on Todd's religion question: Have you ever worked out if the men and women of the 23rd Precinct favor certain types of donut over others?
There are a lot of cops in that precinct house. Many donut varieties are popular.
What are Preston Vogel's thoughts vis-a-vis his evil twin Owen? His "I assure you, sir, we are not" reply when Petros asked if he and Owen were related came out awfully smooth. (Preston's coolness may be somewhat less remarkable when you consider how much practice he must have with that line. He's still a lot more nonchalant about it than I'd expected, though. Doppelgangeren are creepy.)
I don't think it was smooth at all. I think he was affronted. He just has a very thin range of demonstrable emotion.
I do think Owen bothers him.
What did Renard do when he was informed about Vogel's escapades in Guatemala?
I'm not sure he was ever informed. He's not a well man.
a- Why does Preston wear that cheesy bow tie? b- Is this why Owen wears a regular one (or vice versa)?
a. He likes the look.
b. Owen's got better taste.
Does Preston clock out at the end of the day, or is he also work as Renard's live-in assistant?
At his level, there are no timeclocks to punch. And I won't pretend he has much of a life outside his job, but he does have downtime. But he is Owen to Renard's Xanatos.
1) Is Preston Vogel a native-born American?
2) Does he have Sephardic or Ashkenazic roots? (If he isn't a convert, that is.)
2. What makes you think he's Jewish at all?
How did Matt first learn about the Illuminati's existence?
Good question. Fun answer. But it's a long story.
Is any of the main characters currently a member of a organization, fan-, or social club? (Other than the Illuminati Society, Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, Quarrymen, and Young Ganymede [smirk], I mean.)
Well, I think you know who's in the Quarrymen.
All the cops are in the union.
What do you consider a 'main' character?
Was any of the main characters a member of a scouting organization?
I don't know. Matt, maybe. Tony Dracon.
I know you've asked that there be "no more food questions", but hey, it's been a while... ^_^
1) Are any of the characters we know vegetarian? Elisa certainly isn't, and (judging from the contents of his walk-in freezer) neither is Xanatos.
2) Do Matt and Preston observe the laws of Kashrut?
1. I can't think of anyone off-hand.
2. I don't know what "Kashrut" is, so I tend to doubt it.
1) What does Travis Marshall think of gargoyles?
2) Does he think gargoyles are monsters and deserve to be destroyed or does he have a unique opinion about gargoyles?
1. I think Travis is struggling to keep an open-mind. To remain objective until he has more information.
2. See above.
Quite some time ago you told us some of the religions of the humans and you asked whether you'd missed anyone. No-one major, but I was just wondering if you've given any thought in the religions of the following people:
I know most of these are very minor characters and that you probably haven't given any thought into them, but I was just wondering.
3. I'm not sure. Christian of some denomination.
4. He practices the ancient religion of his people.
5. Is this Tea? I don't think she practices anything.
6. I'm not sure who you mean?
7. I'm sure he was Muslim originally. He's dead now.
8. I think he probably comes from a Protestant background, but I don't see him as being very religious now. Godless media and all that.
In the episode the journey Vinnie saved Goliath and Elisa from being killed by Jon Castaway and was given a job in Japan by an unknown man most likely being Taro. My Question is since Vinnie made peace with Goliath would Vinnie cause problems for Taro in his evil plans for the Ishimera clan?
Vinnie tends to cause problems everywhere he goes. Mostly for Vinnie.
was matt bluestone ever going to have a significant other? he is probably my favirote human character on the show, but besides his FBI past, NYPD present and Illuminati future you never seemed to go very far into his personal life. did you plan to?
why was matt b. made head of the gargoyles task force? wasn't there anyone else more qualified? you know with the FBI, NYPD, Illuminati, Recap operator, and head of this task force, matt has had a busy career!!!
Matt's part of the NYPD. And it was an NYPD task force. The experience you list makes him a good candidate. Keep in mind, he wasn't still working for the FBI or operating RECAP. And Chavez didn't know about his Illuminati membership.
Sooo... Why *was* Margot Yale in Paris? Coincidentally at about the same time as the Avalon tour group?
1)Do you plan on having Brendan and Margot Yale a 'til death do we part' couple? The only time we see them is when they go out, but who knows what happens when their at home? Actually I'm guessing you probably do know what they are like at home, and I'm also guessing that their behaviour is no different to when they are out on the streets.
2)Will they ever have any children?
1. I doubt their behavior alters when they're in private, but they must have some reason to stay together.
2. I'm not saying.
Greg, I have a minor interest in geneology. Could you please clarify for me what nationalities the following characters are:
1) Elisa, half African-American, half Native American.
2) Xanatos, Greek
3) Matt, I don't know
4) Fox--- well, her dad's probably French and her mom's a fairy...
5) Maria Chavez, Spanish
Could you help me here?
2. Greek-American, yes.
4. Her dad's French-American, yes.
5. Maria's Hispanic-American.
As much as I loathe the idea of a "Subway Series," I nevertheless find myself interested in the answer to the following question. Given that Gargoyles is set primarily in New York (the only place where anyone could possibly care about the outcome of a Subway Series), are the following characters Mets fans or Yankee fans:
Uh, I live in L.A. and I thought the subway series was fascinating.
1. Elisa - Mets
2. Xanatos - Yankees
3. Matt - Yankees
4. Owen - Neutral
5. Goliath - Uninterested.
6. Demona - Beyond uninterested.
7. Macbeth - Bemused
In 'Future Tense', when Goliath first comes into the city, the Talon-esqe soldiers blast a woman's cart and steps on a framed photo. correct me if i'm wrong, but was it intentionally implied that the girl was supposed to be a daughter of Chavez? taller woman had a similar outfit as Chavez.
Yes, it was implied. That was our intent anyway.