A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Hey Greg love your show, and the characters. There's only one thing that's really bothered me in this series. What is it that Artemis sees in Wally that would make her be interested in him?
I haven't seen her do anything that suggests she's interested romantically. Again, that isn't to say that I see no relationship between them - just I see it as more of a surrogate sibling relationship thus far.
In order for this to be a romantic relationship, Artemis would have to enjoy Wally's company, and she doesn't. They rarely interact between missions besides when she's being a bossy surrogate sister to him. She doesn't like his sense of humor and I don't think she thinks very highly of him, either. If most of this interaction has happened in that comic book then that's different. Unless Artemis is poking Wally about him saying something dumb or seeing a chance to deflate him a bit (for his own good, in the end), she doesn't talk to him at all.
People have noted that Artemis got jealous of Megan in "BEREFT" when Wally mentioned knowing her, but they forget one crucial detail - up until that point, Wally gave Artemis his undivided attention. Being attracted to someone, and being attracted to their attention are two very different things. Besides, the problem with "BEREFT" being the biggest anchor to their "romantic" relationship is it relies on an AMNESIA, and the benefit of that plot trope is to have characters act differently than they usually do due to ignorance
I KNOW that Wally & Artemis are supposed to be a couple. My issue is that I see it as a case of the show TELLING me something rather than being effective at showing me. After all, "TSSM" didn't need amnesia or Dr. FATE to get across the notion that Peter and Gwen were kismet. And that lessens my enjoyment and appreciation of that subplot, where I feel it doesn't work without blunt signposts directed by the plot itself.
For equal time, Wally did spend much of his time beyond "BEREFT" flirting with Megan incessantly, until "COLDHEARTED" obviously. It was mostly his fault that they started off on a wrong foot, since he was upset that Artemis was replacing Speedy. Yes, he stopped referring to Artemis as "beautiful" after the amnesia beam was undone, but we still see he cares because at least twice he's reacted very strongly when Artemis was either hurt or "killed" in subsequent episodes. Of course, this reaction is similar to that of Conner - screaming her name and going on a rampage - although unlike Conner, Wally can't back it up. I've seen Artemis show as much concern for Kaldur during a rough mission as she has for Wally, which doesn't quite equalize it. I can at least rationalize that Wally likes Artemis because he finds her hot. I can't think of a single thing Artemis likes about Wally, at least romantically (or even in general). Which is why I interpret their relationship as more of a surrogate sibling quality, even as the show hammers that into a different shaped peg.
Well, believe it or not, I think she found him physically attractive from moment one. And vice versa. I also think she admires his scientific brain. Wally can be a goofball, but there's no denying that he's brilliant. And she's interested in the same science he's interested in. I also think that she admires his heart; Wally never gives up. And I even think she admires his normality, which is something she never had. I think she likes the way he holds his own with her, gives almost as good as he gets, which she respects.
Basically, I think there are a lot of reasons she's attracted to him - even if she doesn't want to admit it to herself. Now, whether we've succeeded in showing this is a fair question and clearly, as far as you're concerned, we haven't. But for other fans, we clearly have. And I feel pretty good about it, myself. So... <shrug>.
Anyway, the thing I don't think you're really taking into account - or at least you're letting this surface fact overwhelm your interpretation of the relationship - is that both Artemis and Wally are (or were at the beginning of Season One) two very insecure people who cover their insecurities in different ways. Artemis plays the tough girl, and rarely lets her armor down. Wally plays the blustering wiseacre, and rarely admits to his true feelings either.
You say they hardly interact between missions, but we rarely SHOW you any time between missions. And she pokes him BECAUSE she likes him. And vice versa. It's a cliché, but it's one based on the very real way people - especially teens - sometimes behave.
I also disagree with your interpretation of "Bereft". You dismiss it based on tropes like "amnesia" and having characters act differently. But the whole point of Bereft was the clean slate. Artemis didn't have some kind of all-encompassing amnesia and neither did Wally. They ONLY lost six months, which happened to include their mess of an introduction to each other. But neither were behaving out of character for even a second. We tried to show that if they had met under different circumstances, the attraction to each other would have been immediate and reciprocal, and neither would have had to go through all the baloney that their true first meeting caused. The amnesia didn't create an artificial situation. It was their bad first intro that created that.
Now, you may have a point about "Denial". Perhaps we did "tell" too much in that. But I think we ALSO showed. I see chemistry between them in that episode, which Kent NOTICES and comments on. You don't see it, so it feels to you like it's being shoved down your throat artificially. But we'll have to agree to disagree there. I see the chemistry first. The messed-up interaction (and other characters reaction to both) second.
Oh, and by the way, I don't think Wally was ever really upset that Artemis was replacing Speedy. I think that was just an excuse. Shallow as it sounds, I think he was WAY more upset that he tripped and looked like a fool in front of a pretty girl, who then (due to her own insecurity) made fun of him. He reacted badly to that. And she reacted badly to his bad reaction. If Red Arrow hadn't been an issue, Wally would have just found a different peg on which to hang his insecurities.
I bought the trade paperback of "Young Justice" (issues #0 - #6) today and enjoyed it. A few specific comments.
1. The Terror Twins gave me a mild "Jackal and Hyena" feeling; I especially thought of the Diamond Exchange scene at the start of "Her Brother's Keeper" when I read the part about them on the loose in the mall.
2. Judging from the flashback to the Joker's invading the Justice League's old headquarters, the Flash must have once been just as much a wisecracker as Kid Flash now is, though he seems to have settled down in the present-day scenes.
3. The story in #3 and #4 ends with Selena apparently getting assassinated by the League of Shadows after all, even after the two assassins we met "on stage" were foiled, meaning that the team failed in its mission - something you don't see in super-hero stories too often. The last silent panel brought that home well, I thought.
4. I thought that #6 came up with an ingenious way of telling Robin's origin story without having him break the "don't reveal your civilian identity" stricture, by having him remember it to himself.
5. The end of #6 was another shocker - a vision of Superman gone rogue, destroying the Daily Planet building and killing Lois Lane and Perry White, before Superboy takes him down. It left me wondering: does whoever was behind Superboy's programming believe (and fear) that Superman may indeed run amok someday, or is that what he wants Superboy to believe? (A rhetorical question, I should add.)
I also enjoyed all the humor in it, from the scene in #0 where Wally's mother is correcting his grammar and Superboy misinterprets her statement to Miss Martian unwittingly demolishing Wally's plan for a private moment with her by the campfire and Wally's account of his origin (and, yes, having two super-speedsters from different eras called "Flash" *is* confusing, though at least they wear different costumes).
I'm definitely buying the next trade paperback when it comes out - and I'm also glad that it's easy to follow for someone like me who has only a general familiarity with DC Comics.
1. I can see that.
3. Agreed. I think Art and Franco did a great job with that.
4. Thanks. We suggested that to Art and Franco.
5. Those aren't mutually exclusive options, of course.
Making it accessible to hardcore and casual fans alike was the goal.
Is the Black Spider in the Young Justice show Johnny LaMonica or Derrick Coe? (I know it's not Eric Needham because it's the wrong costume and Needham isn't an assassin.)
The Earth-16 Black Spider is indeed Eric Needham.
Did Artemis's father physically abuse her at all?
Depends what you qualify as physical abuse. He didn't beat her or abuse her sexually, but he forced her to push her body beyond the endurance that any decent parent would force on his or her child. And he was certainly emotionally and verbally abusive. (Not that HE would agree.)
Hi Greg, i would like to ask how does martian shapeshifting work? How did they get the anatomy of any living lifeform correct by thing about it e.g shape and position of lungs, heart reproductive organs etc by just thinking about it.
Also, clayface's shapeshifting ability does the clothes he forms when he changes his form feel like real clothes or like clay and can he take those clothes off or they automatically reduce to clay?
1. Study and experience. Telepathy probably helps. But that's why, in Season One, Miss Martian had trouble with male anatomy. She had not studied it in the same way.
2. They'd feel like clay - though he can modulate how wet or dry, soft or hard it is.
2a. He can shed any of his clay (including fake clothes) as it's a morphic field that keeps him alive. And, yes, once out of contact with him, the clothes would revert to clay... though I'm not sure if the color would change or not.
Hey, might I first say how much I'm enjoying the work you've done on Young Justice. I grew up watching Gargoyles, and when I heard you were going to be the one behind my favorite super-hero team, I was beyond excited. You've also been able to create such rich mythologies and fantastic characters.
1. So, I know that you've got a large selection of DCU characters that are going to appear in the Young Justice series as both minor and major roles, but due to the fact that there are a lot of variation of certain identities (i.e. 5 different characters who were Robin, 5 different Batgirls, etc...), are there any particular characters that you would have greatly liked to use for the show, but found yourselves unable to due to the continuity and current time setting of the characters you've established?
2. Its been established in the YJ comics that it wasn't only Dick Grayson's parents who died, but also members of his extended family who were also in the act. In the archive I see you named his aunt who died Karla. Did you at any point consider naming her "Harriet Cooper", as in the aunt of Dick's who appeared in the Adam West Batman show?
3. Why was it decided by the creative crew that Dick's uncle would survive, but remained paralyze?
4. Why are white martians portrayed as more humanoid looking in the Young Justice comic, but Miss Martian's white martian form looks more bizarre? Was it part of Miss Martian's lie, or just a decision on the part of the artist of the comic?
1. Well, I suppose. But given enough episodes and/or issues, I'm sure we'll get to every character that Brandon and I want to get to.
2. Honestly, it didn't occur to me, but Aunt Harriet must exist somewhere on Earth-16.
3. It has to do with a future story idea.
4. AGAIN... nearly all the visuals of Mars in the comic were part of M'gann's lie. ALL Martians actually look (more or less) like M'gann's White Martian form as revealed in "Image", differing only by color.
How did kaldur, Garth and tula meet?
They met on their first day at the Conservatory of Sorcery in Poseidonis. (If this reminds you of a trio of relatively obscure characters named Harry, Ron and Hermione, I can live with that.)
1. What threat did the Justice League have to deal with in Downtime?
2. When did the Atom begin crime fighting on Earth 16?
3. What are the powers of Ocean Master on Earth 16?
4. Is Aquaman an Atlantean or a hybrid on Earth 16?
5. Is the Cult of Kobra a branch of the League of Shadows?
1. Story for another day.
2. Which Atom?
3. See issues 14-15 of the YJ comic.
4. Atlantean, though he has a human foster father.
5. No. (Which is not to imply they won't cooperate.)
Does Artemis celebrate Lunar New Year with her mother?
Uh, sure. Why not?
This is probably a pointless question, but I've spent all day thinking it. Who would win in a fight, Puck or Klarion the witch boy?
p.s. Thanks for creating awesome.
Any regular reader of this forum will know that I'm uninterested in these kind of hypotheticals. Play the fight out in your imagination and you can decide who would win.