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Jade always acts "pissy" when she talks to Artemis. My reading of Jade's attitude is that it's a cover for her feelings of guilt over having not been a better sister or mother. Is this a good reading?
I don't think "pissy" is a good reading. I don't think that describes even half of their interactions over four seasons and a video game.
At what age did Robin become Nightwing on Earth 16 and how did his teammates react?
Robin became Nightwing in Team Year Three. As to how everyone reacted... NO SPOILERS.
I keep hearing about these "Red Arrow Journals". What are they?
They were bonus content in the Young Justice Legacy video game. You can also find them here: https://youngjustice.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Arrow's_journals
In general, the YJ Wiki is a fantastic resource. I use it all the time.
When did Leslie Wills become Livewire?
When did Andie become Mist?
When did Lia Briggs become Looker?
When did Tula become Aquagirl?
When did Cassandra Sandsmark become Wonder Girl?
1. Team Year Seven or Eight.
2. Team Year Seven or Eight.
3. Team Year Nine, when she joined the Outsiders.
4. Team Year One, when she joined the Team.
5. Team Year Five.
Will was wearing his Red Arrow costume in episode 5 of Phantoms. Was that a one time thing again like in "Private Security" or is he fully back as RA?
Occasionally, he's back as Red Arrow. But not often.
How many leaders have the Team had over the past 10 years and can you tell us how long they were in charge. For example when did Miss Martian become leader of the Team and how long was she in charge before stepping down.
Not a lot, surprisingly. Aqualad gave over to Nightwing, who then turned it back over to Aqualad, until he joined the League as Aquaman, at which point Miss Martian took over until she resigned, at which point Tigress took over.
Hello! I've seen the last three episodes of Young Justice: Phantoms and I'm eagerly awaiting the fourth. The relationship dynamic between M'gann and her family (especially M'comm) is rivaling Artemis's in terms of pure curiosity and intrigue. I love it and I want to know everything! And given what was shown in the trailer, it looks like even more of Artemis's family dynamics are going to be explored, which is fantastic. I think this is going to be something they'll bond over this season. But who knows! Anyways, on to the questions:
01. You mentioned in a recent Tweet that âCatwoman: Huntedâ is, like your Green Arrow short, a story that also occurs similarly on Earth-16. Given that information, is it safe to assume Catwoman exists on Earth-16?
02. Are Lucas Carr and Bethany Lee alumni of Happy Harbor High School, or did they graduate elsewhere? Given that Snapper was at least living in Happy Harbor as a teenager, I assume he attended the public high school. The same can be said for Bethany, if her backstory from the comics as the daughter of Happy Harborâs police chief before becoming one herself is largely unchanged.
03. Given you are a Stanford alumni and have thought about what dorms Wally and Artemis spent their Freshman years in, did you give any thought into who their respective roommates were? Not asking for spoilers about who they were, just merely if you guys ever bothered to come up with them.
04. Is Batwoman Jewish on Earth-16 like she is in the comics? If so, wouldnât that make Batman (by proxy, if not in practice) Jewish as well, at least on his motherâs side?
05. This is a long one! I know birthdays aren't something you come up with unless the story needs it, but do you have the same line of thinking with babies born during the story? Artur, for example, was born on February 1st, 2011 (according to the YJ wiki, which got the date from Legacy). For Lian, however, we only know she was born in September 2015. Do you have a birthdate in mind for her, or just the month? For Don and Dawn Allen, you answered in an ask that their due date was sometime in the September following Invasion. Iâm not asking if that due date was accurate or when, if you know it, their actual birthday(s) are, but merely the concept as a whole. Was Artur the only one assigned a birthdate in-story because the diary entry needed a timestamp? Since then, a whole bunch of other super-kids (Anissa and Jennifer, Jonny, Traya, Amistad, and most recently Rhea) have been introduced, with Rhea being (according to Unknown Factors) born on January 21, 2019. While Rheaâs birthday is obviously a byproduct of the story and thus laying credence to your stance on only assigning birthdays when needed, she was also the only one explicitly shown. I guess this whole question can be summed up to: do children (emphasis on children somehow connected to the main cast) born DURING the story get assigned birthdays even if the story doesnât necessarily showcase/reference their birth outright? If not birthdays, then just birth-months? Or is that only come up with when needed as well?
1. Yes, in some form.
3. I actually did give a little thought to Wally's roommate. I have a notion, but I'm not locking it in unless or until a story requires it.
4a. I think it must be true that Martha Kane Wayne was Jewish. That means by Jewish tradition, Bruce Wayne is also Jewish. But I think it's also clear that he was raised as a Protestant Christian. Beyond that, again, I'm not going to go into details until or unless a story requires it.
5. Just birth years, unless the story indicates an obvious (thus necessary) birth month. And just birth months unless the story requires or dictates a birthdate.
Well, as I tweeted today, YOUNG JUSTICE: PHANTOMS is complete, with all 26 episodes in the can. I've also updated all my various reference documents to include everything from Season Four (not to mention Seasons 1-3, our various comic books, the AudioPlay and the video game). And since statistics kinda fascinate me - and since maybe they might fascinate you as well - here are a few.
The Young Justice Timeline is currently 718 pages long. In the past, I've reported that the length of the timeline mysteriously differed between my laptop and my desktop computers, but during the pandemic, my (relatively) ancient desktop finally bit the dust. So now the laptop page count triumphs.
There are 759 characters confirmed - one way or another - to be in the Earth-16 Universe. Some have only been mentioned or referenced briefly. Others, obviously, have had entire arcs dedicated to them. Calling some of them "characters" might also be a bit of a stretch, but I have reasons for including every single one. And - anal individual that I am - I have actually ranked them all in order of their importance to the series. This is something I once did as a hobby for the Buffyverse (which you can find in the ASK GREG archives under the heading of "Buffyverse Geek-Out"), and I've been perfecting my ranking system ever since. The idea is to attempt to make an incredibly subjective thing as objective as possible, based on things like screen time and amount of dialogue and the amount of times other characters reference them, etc. It's still not perfect because I do wind up with point scores, and especially with the lower ranking characters, I wind up with a number of ties. Thus, in order to break any tie, I'm forced to apply more subjective criteria.I was thinking about listing them a few per week, starting with 759 and working my way backwards toward number one. But some of the names haven't been intro'd yet. So it occurs to me that I need to wait until the Phantoms' season finishes airing.
Across four seasons (98 episodes) an AudioPlay and a video game, we've used 128 actors, a phenomenally talented group if ever there was one. Some have only voiced one character. Others have voiced over a dozen. I'm honored to be included among them - even if hiring myself is a rather dubious way to earn this distinction.
There's probably more, but this will do for now.
Just a little peek into my weird brain. Hope you enjoyed it. And I hope you enjoy the show.
Because of the events of "Young Justice: Legacy," Tula's death was ultimately the reason why Kaldur, Garth, Wally, and Artemis left the Team before the events of "Young Justice: Invasion"?
I can't tell if that's really a question or a statement. It certainly was a major reason why Kaldur went undercover and why Garth left the Team, and it clearly influenced Wally and Artemis.
I've been wondering something for a while. In the comics, Kaldur mentions that Calvin Durham is his step father. But in Young Justice Legacy, he seems shocked to find out from Aquaman that Calvin Durham isn't his real father. Was this a mistake, or was the plan to infiltrate Black Manta's team already in the works for Kaldur, and he felt he had to sell it?
Thanks for being awesome!
You're going to have to help me pin your question down a bit more. As I recall, in Legacy, Kaldur learns that Cal is his adoptive-father (not stepfather, I can't imagine him ever referring to Cal as his stepfather). When in the comics does he use that term?
I want to say that I'm a big fan of the shows you've made from Gargoyles to Young Justice and I'd like to ask a few questions.
1. Are Plastic Man, Hardware and Batwoman part of Batman's team? Batwoman obviously and I think Plastic Man is due to his history with Batman.
1A. Why would Hardware be on Batman's team? Does he have history with Batman in the comics as well because I don't know him much.
2. What's Metamorpho's designation for Batman's team.
3. If I were to ask about the character designs for this season, should I ask you or Phil?
4. What was Troia like when she was part of the Team?
5. Did she ever wear stealth tech?
1. I assume, given the date of your post, you mean as of mid-season of Outsiders. In which case, the answer is yes to all three.
1A. No spoilers.
2. I don't give out designation numbers here.
3. Depends on the question, I guess.
4. No spoilers.
5. Ever? Probably. I haven't thought about it.
1. How did you decide on Wyynde for Kaldur's romantic interest? Were you set on it being a former Atlantean purist?
2. I'm curious as to when Kaldur first started to realize when he was attracted to more than just women. Do you picture him struggling with it or was he very open minded about himself from the beginning?
3. When you were writing season 1 and 2, was there a storyline or character you wanted to showcase Kaldur's sexuality with, but couldn't?
4. How did Wyynde and Kaldur meet? Who asked who out? If you're planning on showing this at some point then I get the #NoSpoilers
1. Brandon and I discussed it, and Wyynde seemed like the right choice.
1a. That was one factor, but not the only one.
2. Brandon and Khary and I have had many discussions about this. We think, generally, that Atlantis is way more open-minded than the surface world. But as for Kaldur's story (and mindset) specifically... NO SPOILERS.
3. Not particularly. We were playing the long game with Kaldur. He was in love with Tula. He and Raquel dated briefly between Seasons One and Two. But it would take time for Kaldur and Wyynde to find each other as a couple.
4. Well, they met at the Conservatory of Sorcery. They were classmates there before Kaldur became Aqualad. As for the details of how they became a couple... again, no spoilers.
By the time that you see this question, season 4 will probably have concluded, but I'll take my chances. I love Young Justice - thank you so much for this amazing show!
I have a few questions about "Elder Wisdom", which has just been released on DC Universe:
1) Is Troia an Amazon by birth or is she from man's world? She bears a strong resemblance to Wonder Woman and she referenced Hippolyta ("Mother") so I'm guessing that the former is true, but I wonder if you could confirm this now that she has had a prominent appearance in Young Justice, please.
2a) Does Troia have the alias Donna Troy in Young Justice?
2b) Has she *ever* had this alias on Earth-16? Troia is quite an unusual name so I wonder whether it stems directly from the name Donna Troy somehow, even on Earth-16.
3) We've only ever seen Garth in one outfit, even when he was Tempest in the Young Justice: Legacy game. Likewise, we've only seen one look for Troia at this stage, but is it also her costume from her time as a member of the Team?
4) I hope it's all right if I ask this question as well, please: do you still have plans to include Mary Bromfield in Young Justice? I know that you've said that you wanted to introduce both her and Troia in season 2, so that's why I'm asking about Mary even though this is a spoiler request. I hope that Mary will still get her due, whether it's in the final stretch of season 3 or in season 4. Hoping for some Marvel/Shazam Family love at some point in Young Justice.
Thank you so much for reading my submission! :)
Well, Season Four hasn't dropped as of this writing, though we do have fourteen episodes in the can, seven more in post-production and five being animated overseas, with all pre-production complete.
1. No spoilers.
2. As of Season Three she isn't using the name Donna Troy. No spoilers as to whether she ever did.
3. No spoilers.
4. It's not a spoiler to say that we still want to include her when it makes sense to.
While I adored both the first and second seasons of Young Justice, and I have gone on to enjoy many parts of the third, I have to say that as of right now, I am very disappointed with what I've seen so far of Outsiders. Please know that I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, Brandon, the writers, the crew, or the actual show, but I feel this needs to be said.
I have watched all thirteen available episodes (by the time you get to this ask, I'm more than sure the second half of the season will have already aired in its entirety and you'll be well on your way into making the fourth season *fingers crossed!*) and the show has yet to come through in the ways I -- and many, many others -- had hoped it would prior to the season's airing. By the time you read this, I hope my complaints will have already been resolved and you can tell me I should have been patient and waited for the whole thing to air, in which I would agree. Fair enough.
But as of right now my complaints are still very valid and I would very much appreciate you addressing them, if possible. (Honestly, chances are you have already addressed these issues by the time you read this, if not in the actual show then on your Twitter page or in an interview. If so, I am sorry for wasting your time with a subject you've already gone on to spend a great deal of time on, but if not, here we go.
The pure lack of LGBT+ representation is, frankly, appalling.
I mean no disrespect, but it is 2019 for crying out loud. Men can marry men and women can marry women; boys can dance with boys and girls can dance with girls at their high school proms; those of us that are non-binary can express such freely and openly, when with the right crowd.
You have gone on record saying that LGBT+ people exist on Earth-16; you've gone on record saying that there have even been LGBT+ members of the Team and yet, still, after thirteen full episodes AND a twenty-page comic story where you COULD HAVE represented LGBT+ people, you've failed to showcase even ONE character and/or relationship of the sort. All of the while finding the time in these very crowded episodes and comic for not one, not two, but THREE new straight couples.
There's Garfield Logan and Queen Perdita. Then there's Helga Jace and Jefferson Pierce. And then finally Prince Brion Markov and Violet Harper.
And that's not even counting the suggestion of a relationship between Will and Artemis. Or the hinting that Bear and Dreamer have become exclusive, which would pretty much go against everything the New Gods (Bear himself, specifically, if memory serves) had preached to Conner about them finding satisfaction when they all come together as one back in the first season, which I thought was a pretty interesting way to sneak in the idea of them all being in one big polyamorous relationship. Which would have been SO COOL and SO PROGRESSIVE for a show back then to do.
The one -- ONE -- actual confirmed LGBT+ character you've ever had on the show in its entirety, not just Season Three, was then killed BECAUSE of said-sexuality. The sexuality-in-question, might I add, that we don't even get to know for certain, as when you were asked if she was a lesbian or just bisexual, you simply commented "Yes," as if there wasn't a distinguishable difference between the two in the long run, which just simply isn't the case.
And that's not even really a confirmation since it's plainly just Word-of-God in the grand scheme of things, rather than canon content that was stated out-loud or depicted, either on-screen or on-panel, in the comic. (I know that you weren't allowed to acknowledge it out-loud or in writing back then, so I'm not arguing on that. But you deciding to make her the ONLY LGBT+ character we ever got to see and then having her said-only character killed later in the same comic issue? Not only is it near-downright insulting, but it also fails to come across as anything other than a cheap and thoughtless try at representation.
(And with you and Brandon both going on about how you wanted to include an accurate representation of the world with a diverse cast, the pure lack of LGBT+ representation justs adds insult to injury.)
You've had significant time with Kaldur, who you hinted may not be entirely straight. And, yes, during most of that time with him you couldn't have genuinely acknowledged it either way in-show or out, but with Season Three, there is simply no such excuse. You've got the Brain and Monsieur Mallah, who, I'll admit, wouldn't exactly be my first choices for representation under any circumstances, but they still qualify. You've got Wonder Woman, who, albeit, wasn't confirmed bisexual until after YJ had finished its first two seasons.
But since the start of S3, the show has introduced us to Batwoman, a very prominent lesbian character on-par with Batman and the rest of the Bat-family; the show has given us a cameo of Renee Montoya; and, most recently, the show has given us the gay, married couple of Casey Klebba and Dale Gunn. Both of whom were in the same scene together with speaking lines and still -- STILL -- not even an ounce of content.
You've even introduced Harper Row, who I can't help but guess was only added to the character roster simply for the Harper-confusion joke. I'm hoping she will lead to actual, on-screen LGBT+ content in the next half of the season since that was one of her and her brother's most defining stories from the comics, but I'm no longer getting my hopes up.
And while I know you made no promises of actually having LGBT+ content in the third season, which I won't fault you for nor should anyone else, you KNEW you had a very large, very apparent LGBT+ fanbase. If you knew people were hopeful, don't string them along. If you honestly didn't have any LGBT+ content in store for us, just say so -- lest you be accused of queerbaiting down the line, and while it wouldn't be the case in technical terms in your case, it can still turn many, many fans against you.
Young Justice has and, up until I'm proven wrong, will always be a heteronormative show. The first season's finale got that message across loud and clear, with the second season's finale hammered it in, after you plopped in the surprise, secret romances of not one, but TWO more straight couples in the already-vast sea of straight couples. First, there was Virgil's surprise that Tye and Asami had gotten together, even though we got absolutely zero screentime showing anything of the sort, and was only included because, to you and Brandon, it "Felt right."
Then there's Tim and Cassie, who spent all five seconds of screentime together prior, with them only exchanging a conversation once. (Who then promptly leave each other's sides and enter a fight we're apparently meant to care about less than ten on-screen minutes later, in S3.)
And, now, Young Justice: Outsiders is pulling the same tricks but in a far worse fashion. The twelfth episode alone -- an episode all about Garfield going through nothing but hell, living through every trauma he's ever faced and then some, including the death of his LGBT+ mother, mind you -- ends with him kissing his girlfriend SECONDS AFTER recovering from nearly ending up catatonic. Because of hormones, or something.
Never mind the fact that he'd just rewatched many of his friends' deaths all over again, relived BOTH of his mothers' deaths, AND just realized that his boss -- someone who helped found a META-HUMAN YOUTH CENTER -- was using the Goode Goggles to abduct potential meta-teens and was continuously doing so, all over the country.
But, hey, let me make out with my girlfriend real quick first, right next to my sister and her fiance of the opposite sex, who then promptly make out as well, and just NOT rush to tell the proper authorities, the Justice League, the Team, or the Outsiders about ANY of this until after we're done showing just how straight we are to the audience.
I know this may come off as rude, critical, and/or entitled, but it is truly not what I wish for you to take away from this. Again, I mean no disrespect and do love -- LOVE -- many aspects of the third season, but some of the more recently established relationships and the actions that result from those relationships are the weakest links of an otherwise fantastic show.
I know I may be way off the mark/way too impatient and you actually ARE setting up stories with LGBT+ characters and relationships for the second half of S3, big or small.
If that's the case, I am truly sorry for wasting your time.
But I feel this needed to be said, and while I believe you already know this, I'll say it anyway for the other readers on this site: hinting that a character is LGBT+ off-screen (i.e. in a Tweet or an interview or something) does not adequately represent LGBT+ people at all. Either say it out loud and on-screen/on-panel or just, you know, show it on-screen/on-panel -- otherwise, what do you actually accomplish besides later being able to cry wolf and say that you had LGBT+ characters on-screen and therefore cannot be accused of NOT having them?
Once again, I'm sorry if this came across as critical and/or insulting to you, Brandon, your team of amazing writers/animators/voices, etc., but I promise you all that was not my intent in the slightest, and I hope when you get the time to respond to this (assuming it makes it to you, which I hope it does) it will be to say that I just jumped the shark, so to speak, a little too soon and that LGBT+ characters are all over the second half of S3, confirmed on-screen. It would be amazing, if so.
If not, though, then I would greatly, greatly appreciate an honest answer of why you and Brandon still haven't shown LGBT+ characters/relationships on-screen or on-panel, despite having no restrictions preventing you.
You were very polite. I have no problem with what you wrote. As you noted, I'm hoping that by now you've seen that we have - where we were allowed - objectively shown LGBTQ+ characters since the time you posted this. Hopefully, you were pleased with what we depicted. And, in any case, there's more to come in Season Four.
Still, I would like to respond to some of your points, as some of the people reading this may not know all we've dealt with on this subject.
1. I just want to point out that in the first two seasons, the video game and the companion comics that we've done up to this point, we were not allowed to objectively depict any LGBTQ+ characters or relationships. So we did the next best thing, which was to write and depict them with consistency for the day when we could.
2. Even in Season Three, TPTB wouldn't let us objectively reveal that one specific character, whom we had (in our minds) set up as gay, was gay - though they did let us depict others LGBTQ+ characters objectively. So we took the S1&2 approach to this one character.
3. As you hopefully have seen by now, we did have plans for LGBTQ+ characters in Season Three, and it's a justifiable complaint, I think, to ask why none of that was depicted in the first thirteen. But we wanted to introduce this stuff organically, and it just worked out for it to be back thirteen stuff. Not trying to defend that, per se. But that's how our stories broke down.
4. Killing off Garfield's mother is consistent with him being an orphan in the comics. I guess we could have kept her heterosexual as she was in the comics, since we knew she was going to die. But we didn't want to do that. It seemed to fit her character, and we didn't want to have one less LGBTQ+ character only because she was going to die.
5. I won't apologize for depicting heterosexual/heteronormative relationships simply because we've had restrictions on LGBTQ+ depictions. Chris Jones and I did equalize the scenes between Queen Bee & Marie Logan and Queen Bee & Ali in an issue of the comic. When TPTB wouldn't allow us to show Bee & Marie kiss, Chris and I wouldn't let Bee & Ali kiss either, as they were exact parallel scenes. But generally, we want to be able to be as honest as possible with relationships. So we're not going to create artificial restrictions when we don't have to.
6. Specifically, Garfield had a cathartic experience in "Nightmare Monkeys," and was grateful that his worried girlfriend had stuck by his side. The idea of them kissing at that moment wasn't us shoving heteronormative behavior in the face of LGBTQ+ viewers, it was us depicting what we believed was the honest and real response to all that had happened to both characters.
7. Bear and Dreamer being a couple is right out of the comics. In fact, in the comics they got married and had a kid. Now, of course, we could have changed that, but it seemed to fit what we were doing, so we didn't.
I'm not going to pretend that we've done justice (no pun intended) to these concerns, even including what we did in Season Three. But we believe the back thirteen episodes took a positive step forward, and we believe Season Four will take us multiple steps forward after that.
1. In regards to "Young Justice: Legacy" why was the decision made for it to be a video game as opposed to an animated film...? The way I have depicted it is that the leader of each three-person team during each mission were canon and the other two members that accompany the leader were not because the player has to choose which heroes go with the team leaders.
2. The one thing that confuses me is that if you read comics associated with the Flash, Jay Garrick, Kid Flash, or Impulse or have at least watched episdoes of The Flash on The CW, you would see the lightning streak that forms when speedsters associated/connected with the Speed Force are running. That being said, why do we not see lighting streaks when Barry, Wally, Jay, and Bart run in the Young Justice animated universe...?
1. Doing the story as a film was never presented to us as an option.
1a. That's basically correct.
2. That's just not a conceit that we chose to adopt, potentially because Brandon and I are older fans, for whom that wasn't a thing. So it didn't occur to us.
1. How old was Dick when he became Nightwing.
2. How long did Jason Todd act as Robin.
1. No spoilers.
2. No spoilers.
Hi Greg. I'm going to ask for a spoiler only because it is a spoiler you have already given us.
Years ago, you said that a villain from the YJ:Legacy would play a role in season 3 - if it ever happened. Is that still the case? (I'm guessing you were referring to Tiamat as she is the only villain specific to Legacy.)
Also, is the general plan you had for season 3 the same as it was when you completed season 2? I guess you'll be able to talk more freely about this after Outsiders has aired.
1. There were a number of villains that Legacy and Outsiders had in common. I no longer remember who specifically I might have been referring to.
2. The general plan for the entire series (including S3) hasn't changed.
1.When did Jade found out that her sister is dating kid flash? (I'm not asking about a specific date. I'm asking did she found out like a week after that happen or mount or mounts)
2. What we her reaction? Was she happy? Did she wanted to mess whit Artemis about her dating him?
1. Haven't pinpointed that.
2. She ALWAYS wants to mess with Artemis.
I always imagined Wally and Jade liking each other for some reason, and then it hit me: Jade is like a darker, nastier, sultrier version of Artemis. So, my questions are:
1) Do Wally and Jade like each other?
2) Was it your intention to have the two sisters mirror each others personalities to some extent? Or, am I imposing my own interpretation after the fact?
1. They don't have much of a relationship, honestly, i.e. haven't spent a ton of time together. But I think they had good days and bad.
Hello Greg:) Is there a high chance of a new Young Justice game? I could see a Young Justice game being released on the Nintendo Switch.
I'm unaware of any development of such. Or any interest.
How soon after Garfield started to shape shifting into animals did he start to shape shift into the human-monkey form he is in during young justice invasion ?
Again, I'm not inclined to tell stories here - or circumvent the telling of stories by spoiling things here.
What year did Malcolm begin working for the team ? How Malcolm did find out the team ?
That's a story I'd like to tell some day.
I know Paula kicked Sportsmaster out of the house, but are they divorced? If not, how come?
I'd say by now they are.
I was surprised that this wasn't asked already, but maybe I missed it going through the archives. Was Batman seriously completely unaware that aqualad was a double agent, given that he taught nightwing how to strategize, and was the world's greatest detective? And if he did know, did he support the idea, or help come up with it in any way? Also, did he know black manta was aqualads father bbefore aquaman told him?
1. He didn't know. And being the World's Greatest Detective doesn't make one omniscient. How boring would he be if he were?
2. Maybe. Haven't thought about it.
Will the complete young justice timeline be revel if all future seasons of the young justice you Mister Greg plan for the show to have are produce ?
Never. Cuz we'll never run out of ideas for future seasons, and the timeline is constantly growing. Right now it's 694 pages on my desktop computer and 609 pages on my laptop. (I have no explanation for the discrepancy. It's the exact same document. My desktop is much older than my laptop.)