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I had a random question based on a question I saw about the Goliath/Demona/Angela parentage issue in "Sanctuary."
I just thought of this theory that maybe part of the reason why Goliath was resistant to telling Angela about Demona was because he was hurt over the end of his relationship with her, and having seen how she changed. So, he may, at least somewhere in his mind, have wanted to forget about her.
Do you think that may have been the case, not just his "Gargoyle Way" position?
If that works for you, I'm not going to object.
I was just rewatching Season 2 of Gargoyles and I noticed something...Angela and Demona's name. Angela=Angel, Demona=Demon. The names do fit the mother and daughter duo's personalities, but I am wondering whether or not this a coinendence that their names were set up this way.
P.S. Reading through your responses regarding people's questions on the Gargoyles, you keep saying, "No Spoilers." So, are you planning in the near future to continue writing about the Gargoyles in the comics? I hope so, because I am so looking forward to it! :D
Of course, it was set up that way.
P.S. I hope so.
I have a question about the Avalon Clan and their biological relationships to the Manhattan Clan. I am going to use the "placeholder names" for those Gargs that don't have given names in cannon.
Can we assume that Hudson does not have any biological children there because Hyppolyta, Broadway, and True are his only three offspring?
You've mentioned before that Angela is the only biological child of Goliath's, and she is no longer there, so none for him either.
Brooklyn had at least one brother, Brooksbro...was he and older or younger brother? If older, then there is a potential for him to have a biological sibling on Avelon...is that the case?
Does Lexington have a younger biological sibling on Avelon?
3. Brooksbro is older. (But Brooklyn had MANY brothers and sisters. Stop thinking like a human.)
4. No comment on whether or not Brooklyn has a younger biological sibling among the Avalon clan.
5. No comment.
6. No comment.
I read the gargoyles wiki on how they only have one mate for life but I couldn't find anything about how they actually chose their mates. Is it like a human and they just chose their mate by courting and falling in love with that gargoyle or does it have to do with certain things, like the horns, wing size, color, etc.?
Attraction plays into things, of course. But you saw how Angela and Broadway got together, and there are no RULES, per se.
my question must have gotten deleted last time i asked this, because i cant find it anywhere. it was part of a post with a bunch of questions, but this one is the only one i really want to know about, so i hope this one wasnt the one that made it not go through
after his journey through time, does Brooklyn still consider himself a rookery brother to Lexington and Broadway?
also, since he is a generation older than Goliath, does he still consider himself his rookery son?
would he now technically be a rookery uncle to any or all three of them, and Angela?
if so, how does he view his relationship to Hudson, since they cant technically be rookery brothers? (like cousins mabey?)
2. He never did, so no.
4. He still sees Hudson as a mentor/father/grandfatherly figure.
1)Does Angela know the role that Demona played in the Wyvern Massacre?
2)Does Demona think that Angela is more, let's say, justified in her position about humans because she was raised and therefore "corrupted" by them?
I know why you and Greg Guler changed her outfit, but in-universe what were Angela's reasons for changing her outfit? Demona's been wearing the same exact style for over a thousand years and we never saw any other gargoyles change their clothes. Una and Leo were wearing the same outfits in 1940... or the same style.
Yes, I realize that new character models are expensive, just wondering why Angela herself chose to change.
Um... the fact is that in a comic, we have a lot more freedom than in a cartoon, so we made use of it. Even giving Elisa the occasional change of clothes. In Universe, perhaps the fact that she was raised by humans influenced her more than the other gargoyles.
How does Angela currently feel about Demona? She was devastated at the end of "The Reckoning" when she thought Demona was dead, but the next time she saw her, Demona almost destroyed all life on Earth. Does she still feel bad about the "I hate you" or does she think it was justified now?
I'm sure her feelings are quite complex. But I'll leave anything more specific either to your interpretation or to future stories.
You mentioned that Angela was raised christan, to an extent anyway by Katherine but was not necessarily bapitised.
I read a book about "monsters" in medieval art and apparently St Augustine claimed that even "monsters" were worthy of salvation but only if they were descended from man. Apparently Augustine's comments were very important to missionaries and their work. Could this have been a reason that Katherine didn't bapitise the Gargoyles as they weren't descended from man? Or was it a more literal, no priest on Avalon king of thing?
I'd have to do some research, I guess.
1 - Were Angela and Broadway still virgins by the time of "Phoenix?"
2 - Goliath and Demona became mates during "Vows", did they lose their virginity that night?
(Both of these are canon-in-training answers, of course.)
If Gargoyles comes back as a show or a comic, will Angela keep the new outfit or go back to the old one?
Most likely, she'll stick with the new one for the time being.
You've said in the past that gargoyles follow a vague religion that is both monotheistic and pantheistic, and that at present Coldfire would be the most interested in it. What are Demona's spiritual viewpoints? Was she ever a "believer." Is she still one, or is she lapsed? The closest we've ever gotten was her not considering a Wind Ceremony for her smashed clan a priority in "Tyrants."
For that matter, what are Angela's spiritual beliefs? She was raised by humans after all.
I think Demona is probably lapsed - or at least inattentive.
I don't think Angela knows too much about the Gargoyle Way. I do think she was raised with medieval Christian values, without necessarily being baptized a Christian.
Hi Greg, I've been a long time fan and have never had the opportunity to ask this question, but it's a question that I've had since I watched the series in its initial run. Why did Broadway ever end up with Angela? Was it a decision by a particular writer, a shift in the creative team, or something else? Brooklyn seemed to be the logical choice do to fan base, role as second in command, and overall use in stories. In episodes like "The Gathering Part II" and "Turf" Brooklyn seemed to be building a relationship (even a very small one) with Angela. Broadway seemed like the last possible gargoyle to end up with Angela (totally discounting Lex there). And yet he did end up with Angela. I guess this long rant has one simple question behind it, why not Brooklyn?
Our plan was ALWAYS to pair her with Broadway. ALWAYS. It seemed right to us for all characters involved. For more details - CHECK THE ARCHIVES, as I've answered this over and over again.
Soo... did the group dynamics of young justice resemble gargoyles by accident like maybe you didn't realize you were writing them that way. I mean robin is cleary the lexington of the group the smallest and the smartest, and aqualad has goliaths role as the mature leader. And the boys reaction to seeing miss martian for the first time was pretty much the same as the trios to meeting Angela. (who was also new to the city the same way miss martian is new to the planet.)
Uh... gee, when you put it that way, it all seems pretty unoriginal. But I don't actually think your parallels go much beyond the few surface characteristics you've listed. (I mean is Kid Flash supposed to be in any real way like Broadway because they both like food?)
Keep watching and let me know...
Oh, and no, no parallelism was intended.
I hate to say it, but I was extremely disappointed in the Young Justice premiere. Don't get me wrong--the animation was gorgeous, the dialogue entertaining, the story intriguing. But the gender imbalance was a huge turn-off for me.
Why was it that the women of the Justice League were only shown in the last five minutes of a two-part pilot? Why did the male sidekicks get to go on a rebellious adventure and force the League to accept them as a team of their own, while the first girl is only added to "Young Justice" at the very end, introduced by her uncle and guardian like some sort of token?
I expect that the women will have a lot more to do in the episodes to come, but I still find it profoundly problematic to introduce the characters in such an unequal manner. I believe there are too many men in the world as it is who see women as mere supporting players in their stories. Why reinforce this stereotype for a whole new generation of superhero cartoon fans?
It's a legitimate gripe. And I doubt my answer will satisfy you, but it came down to a couple factors that we at least found important: (1) practicality and to a lesser extent - but intertwined with - (2) tradition.
Let's start with practicality.
You asked why there were no female Leaguers until the end. But where would they have fit? There are no female Leaguers with traditional first generation sidekicks. So Batman, Green Arrow, Aquaman and Flash could not be replaced by Wonder Woman, Black Canary or Hawkwoman. That leaves the four Leaguers introduced at the Hall of Justice. I needed Martian Manhunter to be there to set up Miss Martian. I needed Red Tornado there to set up his interest in the teens. I needed Superman there to set up Superboy. That leaves only Zatara. He was certainly replaceable. But then I would have had to hire another voice actress to read ONE LINE. I couldn't afford to do that. We have budgets. (And you'll notice that Red Tornado never speaks in the episode. Couldn't afford giving him a line either. None of which had anything to do with gender.)
There was NEVER any intent to introduce Artemis this early in the season for story reasons. Wouldn't make sense for her character. And I think the reasons why will become clear as the season progresses.
As for Miss Martian, yes, in theory, we could have introduced her sooner. Manhunter COULD have brought her along at the beginning. But then I'd have had FOUR characters running around the first half hour and FIVE in the second. That steals screen time and characterization from everyone. I think the entire production would have been weaker for adding another character -- ANY other character (gender notwithstanding).
Of course, that begs the obvious question - why not ditch one of the boys in favor of her to create a little balance.
But it seemed to us that would create balance at a cost.
There are FOUR TRADITIONAL sidekicks: Robin, Speedy, Aqualad and Kid Flash. To leave one out seemed wrong to us. Which brings in the Tradition argument, which I'll admit is somewhat feeble, but as an old comic book geek, I'll also admit it matters to me and to everyone else here.
The very first Teen Titans story ever in Brave and the Bold featured only THREE heroes: Robin, Aqualad and Kid Flash. Wonder Girl did not join until their second adventure. So we felt there was a precedent for beginning with Robin, Aqualad and Kid Flash and saving the real introduction of Miss Martian (beyond hellos) for OUR second adventure.
For what it's worth, if you give the series another chance, starting with episode three (i.e. the one immediately following the pilot "movie"), I think you'll see that female characters including Miss Martian, Black Canary, Artemis, Wonder Woman and MANY others will be playing ESSENTIAL roles in the show as we progress. I think the balance - and then some - is absolutely present in the first season when viewed in its entirety.
Yes, the pilot was very boy-centric, but that's not the rubric for the series. Personally, I love writing female characters, and if you're at all familiar with my past work, you'll know I have a history of doing them justice. (At least, I think so.) Gargoyles, for example, is FULL of strong female characters, including Elisa, Demona, Angela, Fox, etc. WITCH was nearly ALL female leads. Even Spider-Man had a strong female supporting cast, in my opinion at least.
If we did "reinforce a stereotype" (which I think is overstating it) then perhaps we've lured in kids that we will reeducate over the course of the season - organically without forcing it.
So I'd beg a little patience, a little indulgence... maybe even a little trust that we'll do right by this issue.
But judge for yourself.
I've read that Angela and Broadway will/would eventually have three hatchlings of their own at some point in their future. Now, while I am VERY happy for the two lovebirds, I can't help but wonder if their different upbringings and views on parentage & child raising would prove an issue for them. I mean, Broadway was raised in the traditional Gargoyle way and never knew who his actual biological parents were, nor showed any interest in learning who they were, & I've even read that if he ever did find out Hudson is his dad it wouldn't really change anything between them (which is the norm for most garg clans). However, Angela was raised by humans and cares very much about her blood ties with Goliath & Demona, wanting her father to acknowledge their bond & rejoicing once he does & over time their bond deepens, & wishing to bring Demona back into the light because of her connection to her despite being aware of her dark & troubled nature. I guess what I'm saying is, Angela strikes me as someone who'd want to raise her children personally & form a strong mother/child bond with them whereas Broadway would likely treat them the same way any gargoyle of an older generation would treat those of a younger generation. So I guess my question is, would Angela's & Broadway's different upbringings cause some problems for them in their relationship & in raising their hatchlings? Or would Angela convince Broadway to form a real parental bond with the kids as Goliath has formed with her? I can't really see Angela NOT making her blood ties known to her kids while Broadway just keeps quiet about it. Hope my questions make sense, this is my first time doing this, & thankyou for your time.
Probably fewer problems than you think. They'd BOTH still behave as parents to all eggs hatched. How is that going to differ between them?
In any case, these are issues that will hopefully be explored in the years to come.
Hi Greg I'm sure you've heard this plenty of times but I am a huge fan of the gargoyles!! One day I'm hoping to become a film editor in the future, maybe even own my own movie set! So if your ever looking for an editor sometime in the future look me up, I would love to work with you! Also I been searching and I wasn't able to find this question so I hope you haven't been asked this yet. But I've always wondered I know it obvious that Elisa and Goliath will end up being together some how, but how does Angela feel about Elisa as possibly becoming a future step mom? Would she see her in that way?
I have answered this before, so you might check the archives for more detail, but basically Angela views Elisa as an older sister. That wouldn't change. But if you've read the comics, you know Angela ALREADY considers Elisa to be Goliath's mate (more or less).
Okay, I consider this the anti "What did Titania whisper in Fox's ear?" question.
In "Ill Met By Moonlight", towards the end, Oberon can be seen in the background talking to Angela while Tom the Guardian stands nearby. His lips are animated as moving, but we can't hear what he says, because the focus is on Goliath and Titania in the foreground discussing Oberon's trustworthiness.
My question is: What was Oberon saying to Angela?
If you wish to review, here is the clip. From approx. 5:25-5:29. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcmHmG0cylg
Hah! Damn good question! Sharp eyes, Richard!
And I have no idea. I'd have to think about it. Pleasantries, probably, but...
I think we may have discussed this at a Gathering once, so forgive me.
We all know Demona holds Angela in a much higher regard than she has held anyone in, well, a very long time. Does the biological connection matter to her? I almost wonder if she would have gone through the trouble to turn Gabriel or Ophelia if either of them left Avalon with Goliath instead.
She did pause briefly in "Avalon Part Three" when Goliath pointed out that she was pointing a gun at her own children, after all.
But then, Demona has always been atypical of most gargoyles.
I think the biological connection does matter to her (though she'd never admit it). She's so human that way.
So a few years back we had talked about the two other beasts on Avalon (besides Boudicca) and how they are male and female and mates. We seemed to come to the conclusion that if the math is correct they should have already mated and laid an egg as of 1996, though it has not hatched yet. I believe you agreed the math worked out correctly, but didn't commit to the idea that this had actually occurred and put it tentatively in the canon-in-training category (which is how it continues to be labeled on the GargWiki).
I just want to get some confirmation from you that this has not happened after all. Since Angela commented in "Phoenix" that she had never seen a gargoyle egg before, I suppose the two beasts on Avalon have yet to parent one, right?
Also, as a side note, I find it interesting that during the time spent at Ishimura and ChacIxChel (and to a lesser extent London since Goliath and Co probably didn't visit Knight's Spur), Angela never got a peak of the Ishimuran or Mayan rookeries. Is this something private to a clan and not something they'd put on the tour or did it just not come up due to lack of time or whatnot?
The latter question is easier to answer. I don't think there was time for Angela to see a rookery. And it didn't occur to her to ask for a special tour.
The former question... I guess she hasn't seen one.
When Elisa told (or admitted, however you want to look at it) Angela that it was true that Demona was her mother at the end of Sanctuary, was Goliath angry with her? Did they discuss it at all later or did he just let it go? Was he actually relieved to not have to be the one to tell Angela?
I'm sure he was angry, but she probably convinced him of the obvious: (a) it was obvious and (b) it would have come out eventually and it was better coming from them then from Demona herself. Goliath would have grumbled at first, but known she was right.
Hey there again. I have'nt found this so I'm asking. Is Demona so emotionaly attached to Angeala because shes HER daughter or because shes one of her rookery children. It seems like she values the biologic conection, and if thats true then it seems like a hipocrocy to be so bent on the "true" gargoyle and then do something so human, but thats just my misguided oppinion. If you could do something to guide it that would be most helpfull, thanks.
I'm going to stick with "All of the Above" at this point.
Have Angela, the Trio, and Bronx ever killed someone? I don't mean like in the show, but back in the 10th Century? With Hudson, Goliath, and Demona being as battle hardened as they are it's sort of obvious they've done the deed, but I've always been curious to the younger members of the clan.
Well, not Angela. But I think it's very possible that Bronx and/or the Trio might have. And almost definite that Brooklyn did at Rathveramoen.
You know, normally I don't do this, but this recent answer about Xanatos and Norman Osborn tickled me on a fanboy level:
"I think he would have been appalled at Norman's parental approach. He'd of course have to admire his business acumen and respect his machiavellian bent. But I find it hard to imagine the two has friends. "
The comparisons between Xanatos and Osborn are obviously easy. But comparing and contrasting Demona and Osborn seems to intrigue me a little more... especially on a parental level.
Now, I don't think it's a stretch to say that both of them love their children... albeit in a twisted, almost possessive way.
This is almost tough since we've gotten really only one episode of Demona and Angela ("The Reckoning") and several episodes of Norman and Harry... not to mention forty three years of comic books delving into them. But, for now, I think I'll stick to "Spectacular" in this topic.
Up front, one key difference is that Demona never got to be a parent. She met Angela for the first time when Angela was already an adult. Contrary to Norman, who raised Harry since birth but was never a good father to him.
Both Norman and Demona are willing to commit unspeakably horrible acts and rationalize them by saying they're in their children's best interests. In Demona's case, she cited protecting Angela in "Hunter's Moon Part Three" and Norman justified framing Harry because if he'd been sent to prison, who'd have made a man out of Harry.
Would Demona risk herself to protect Angela? We know she would. We've seen her do it. Would Norman risk his life to protect Harry? In the current comics, the answer is definitely no. In SSM, I'm... not sure. I'm really not.
I tend to think that both of them see their respective children as property. There are several instances of Norman treating Harry like property. And Demona did use the phrase "she belongs to me" when Thailog threatened Angela.
I definitely think Demona loves Angela more than Norman loves Harry (Hell, Norman doesn't even like his own kid). But even there, Demona was more than willing to risk Angela's life at the end of "Hunter's Moon Part Three" to escape... there was no guarantee Goliath would have been able to catch that vial.
Now, I realize I'm answering a lot of my own questions and I have my own interpretations here, but I'd be curious to read your thoughts here?
It still feels a bit like Apples and Oranges to me. Let's face it: Demona is really f***'d up. Norman isn't. He knows his options and is doing exactly what he wants, is being exactly who he wants to be.
As for parenting, Norman rationalizes... a little. Demona's entire life is a rationalization, with Angela being only a part. If Angela could meet the Demona that Demona and Goliath met in "Vows", we might see a very different dynamic. But at best now, D's playing catch-up.
G2009 Radio Play - Act Two
BIG MAN STANDS.
Act Two. The Big Man of Crime enters his offices, but finds heâs not aloneâ¦
248. BIG MAN
You spend so much time here, Iâll need to buy you your own chair. So youâll stay out of mine.
Green Goblin STANDS.
249. GREEN GOBLIN
Surprised to see me?
250. BIG MAN
251. GREEN GOBLIN
Then you wonât be surprised to learn Iâm still running thingsâ¦
252. BIG MAN
If you can run them from a hospital bedâ¦
Catching Gobby off guard, Lincoln punches him right through the windowâ¦
254. GREEN GOBLIN
The goblin-glider swoops in and catches the Goblin, who pulls out a Pumpkin Bomb.
PUMPKIN BOMB STANDS.
256. GREEN GOBLIN
Ever the gracious host. And ever the gracious guest, the Goblin must show his appreciation. Here. I brought a gift.
Gobby throws his âgiftâ, but Goliath swoops in, catches it and throws it back.
Goliath and Spider-Man STAND.
258. PUMPKIN BOMB
259. GREEN GOBLIN
Not far awayâ¦
No, no, no, no, noâ¦ I was hoping Iâd never hear that trademark Pumpkin Bomb shriek againâ¦
Spidey swings in to find Goliath and a recovering Gobby togetherâ¦
So thatâs what these gargoyles areâ¦ more of the Goblinâs Halloween creationsâ¦
Spidey swings into action against Goliath.
265. GOLIATH, SPIDER-MAN
<ad-lib battle sounds>
The Bugle was right about you: you are a threat and a menace!
Wait, you can talk? And read?! And what you read is the Jolly Oneâs editorials?!
268. GREEN GOBLIN
I know I should assassinate Mr. Lincoln. But Iâm so enjoying the show. Really, someone should make more Gargoyles. I know: Iâll call Walt Disney.
Green Goblin, Spider-Man, Goliath, Pumpkin Bomb and Big Man sit. ANGELA, BROOKLYN, BROADWAY and LEXINGTON STAND.
Meanwhile, atop the Eyrie Building, Brooklyn, Lexington and Broadway watch Angela playing with Brooklynâs son Nashvilleâ¦
Thatâs great, Nashville. This time try the axeâ¦
Wow, Angela looks so adorable playing with Gnash. I mean, Gnash is cute tooâ¦
Thanks. I know he hatched in another decade, but Katana and I discussed it, and we want the whole clan to be Gnash and Egwardoâs Rookery parentsâ¦
Weâd be honoredâ¦
I still canât quite take it all in. I go to Britain for a few weeks, and everything changesâ¦
At least you were gone for weeks. Try adjusting in forty seconds.
Hey, I had forty years to get ready for this, and itâs still strangeâ¦
But, dude. Youâre soâ¦ old.
Older than Goliath.
Almost Hudsonâs age.
I get it. Iâm old.
Itâs not that. Everything about you is different.
Oh, come onâ¦
No, heâs right. The way you talk. The way you move. All those weapons you carry now. Itâs like youâve outgrown us.
Thatâs not fair. I canât tell you how much I missed you both.
We get that. And weâre not mad. Butâ¦
Look, this isnât all on me. As I recall, things were already changing. Broadway spent all his time with Angela.
Not all my time.
Uhâ¦ pretty much.
Yeah, well, youâre practically on the internet non-stop.
Itâs addictive! Do you know they have porn on that thing? Thereâs this one website, Blue Mug Prodâ"
I donât wanna know. The point is weâve all gone through some changes. Thatâs just life.
I guess our Three Musketeer days are overâ¦
Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
Gargoyles of Manhattan!
We need youâre help!
At just that moment, the sun rises, turning Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Angela and Gnash to stone. Obsidiana and Zafiro are unaffected, thanks to their mystic Mayan pendants.
Nuestro cronometraje apesta hoy.
Obsidiana, Zafiro, Lexington, Broadway, Brooklyn and Angela sit. Spider-Man, Green Goblin and Pumpkin Bomb STAND.
Across town, Goliath also turns to stone.
What the heck?!
303. GREEN GOBLIN
Well, that wasâ¦ unexpected.
All right, thatâs enough. I know youâre not the real Gobby.
305. GREEN GOBLIN
Yes, yes, âItâs not the voice; itâs the words. Not the tech, but the moves.â Iâve heard it all beforeâ¦
Then I know exactly who you really are: Chameleon!
307. GREEN GOBLIN
That would ease your conscience, wouldnât it? To think Iâm Chameleon â" and not the ghost of the man you killed!
I donât believe in ghosts.
309. GREEN GOBLIN
Then maybe youâd prefer I was the Spawn of Goblin.
Oh, youâd just love to shift the blame to Harry. Sorry, Gobby â" I mean, Chammy â" but weâve been there, done that. Besides, no matter who you are, there hasnât been time for the Globulin Green to kick in and truly Goblify you. So Iâm gonna take you down now while youâre still just a cheap imitation.
311. GREEN GOBLIN
You could do thatâ¦ or you could save stoneface over there.
Gobby throws a pumpkin bomb at Goliath. Instinctively, Spidey webs it awayâ¦
313. PUMPKIN BOMB
Pumpkin Bomb and Green Goblin sit.
By which time, the Goblin is gone, leaving a confused Spidey perched on Goliathâs headâ¦
So in hindsight, Iâm thinking maybe you werenât part of the Gob-Squad, right?
Fine. Stonewall me.
That morning in Forest Hills, Spidey sneaks in through his bedroom window, hoping to catch a few Zs.
Peter, are you awake.
Uh, sure Aunt May. Just getting dressed.
Well, hurry up. Iâmâ¦ âconferencingâ with all the other parents.
Robbie, ROSIE THOMPSON and George STAND.
Are you sure you donât mind, Mrs. Parker? Cuz I gotta say, what youâre proposing would be my worst nightmare.
<laughs> Oh, I donât believe that for a minute, Mr. Robertson. Itâs a joy to be around Peter and his friends. And I wonât be alone. Anna Watson and Mrs. Osborn will be with me.
Emily? Sheâs soâ¦ odd. I donât think sheâs ever said one word to meâ¦
Well, I donât know her very well, Rosie, but Harry is Peterâs best friend â" no offense to your Eugene â" so she must be doing something right.
May, you never change. Always seeing the best in people.
Iâll take that as a compliment, dear girl.
In any case, Iâm glad to get Gwen out of Manhattan for a few days. The streets are looking pretty grim right about now.
Oh, Iâm sure your officers will have things under control in no time.
Aunt May, whatâs going on?
Oh, didnât I tell you, Peter. Iâm chaperoning your trip to Miami Beach!
Peter, May, George, Rosie and Robbie sit. Big Man and Dominique STAND.
Meanwhile, back at L. Thompson Lincolnâs officeâ¦
332. BIG MAN
And how can I be of help, Ms. Destine.
I think I can help you, Mr. Lincoln.
334. BIG MAN
What makes you think I need any help?
Oh, little things. The shattered window, that unusual statue on the ledge outsideâ¦
336. BIG MAN
Point taken. How about you cut to the chase?
Fine. Tony Dracon. Tomas Brod. Silvio Manfredi. All in jail. Hammerhead. Sable Manfredi. On the run. This gives you a unique opportunity to reclaim what was lost.
338. BIG MAN
Iâm sure L. Thompson Lincoln has no idea what youâre talking about. But go onâ¦
You have three problems. Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus and the government watching your every move.
340. BIG MAN
And you have the solutionâ¦
I have the manpower. Threeâ¦ âsuper-villainsâ to take down the competition and Dominic Dracon to use as a figurehead.
342. BIG MAN
The old man? I heard he was shy a few brain cells.
Itâs easy enough to spread the word he was faking insanity to avoid prosecution. And easy enough to assign him a keeper. Meanwhile, heâs a Dracon. And that name still carries weight, I believe.
344. BIG MAN
It does. But what would you want in exchange?
Nothing extraordinary. Just the services of the Tinkerer.
346. BIG MAN
I believe that can be arranged.
Lovely. But letâs not allow the moss to gather. Youâll want to move fast. Before the Octopus retrieves his armsâ¦
Dominique and Big Man sit. SILVER SPOON MANAGER, Vulture, DOCTOR OCTOPUS and Electro STAND.
The weather has turned cold. At the Silver Spoon, three men in trench coats and hats wait for their coffee.
349. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Vulture sits down with Electro and Doctor Octopus.
352. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Thank you, Adrian. Now. My arms?
In an OsCorp vault.
<shhhhh> Not THE Vault. A vault. Still very high security, and the police are bound to expect our arrival, butâ¦
356. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Indeed. <sigh> OsCorp. Even in death, Norman Osborn torments me. But it cannot be helped. I must have my arms. We go in under cover of darkness tonight.
Doctor Octopus, Vulture and Electro sit. Silver Spoon Manager remains standing. Peter and Mary Jane STAND.
The three men exit through one door. Two teenagers enter through another.
358. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
359. MARY JANE
Try to understand, Tiger. I just canât do that to Gwen. Sheâs really become my best friend at Midtown.
But itâs not like weâd be making out or anything, right? Uh, right?
361. MARY JANE
Right, right. Weâd be going as friends. Hanging out when the couples were â¦ you know, coupling.
363. MARY JANE
And that would be great. But look at it from her point of view. She took all the risks, and you still wound up with Liz. Thereâs no way, sheâd see me as anything but a threat. Wait, that sounded really conceited.
Have you looked in a mirror? Not conceited. Just fact.
365. MARY JANE
Ooh, nice one. Such a player.
Yeah, right. The worldâs loneliest player.
367. MARY JANE
Stop it. I know you donât want to hurt Gwen either. Not after all the two of you have been through.
Yeahâ¦ I wonder if Ms. Brant likes Miami. Kidding, kiddingâ¦ Wow, pretty good. That was practically the Look.
369. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
SEYMOUR OâREILLY stands.
So youâre just not going?
371. MARY JANE
Oh, Iâm going. Itâs 48 degrees outside and 82 in Miami. I asked Tiny to be my plus one.
Tiny?! Tiny McKeever?! The guyâs got the brain of an amoeba. He makes King Kong look like a genius. Hell, he makes Flash look like Stephen Hawking!
373. MARY JANE
<argggh> I just wish I could skip the whole thing. But Aunt Mayâs going, and after her heart attack, I really think she could use some fun in the sun--
Sorry to interrupt. Couldnât help overhearing.
Oh, hey, Seymour.
Just wanted to let you know Harry invited me too. And Iâm totally going stag. I mean who wants a ball and chain when Miami Beach is full of hotties, right?
Just donât expect to hang out, okay. Youâd fully cramp my style.
Of course I wouldâ¦
381. SILVER SPOON MANAGER
Silver Spoon Manager, Peter, Seymour and Mary Jane sit. Dominique and TINKERER STAND.
Meanwhile, the Tinkerer arrives at the Destine Mansionâ¦
You have the devices?
Five was all I could put together on short notice. Unless you want to bring Mysterio inâ¦?
Our stage is crowded enough. And five should do quite nicely.
Dominique and Tinkerer sit. May, Mary Jane, GREG BISHANSKY, Sally, Gwen, Harry, Kong, Rand, Flash, Liz, Jason, Peter and Seymour STAND.
Later that afternoon, Harryâs rented a party bus, and the gang is en route to the airport, stuck in heavy traffic on the expressway. A very prepared May Parker has a clipboardâ¦
All right, we have three adults and sixteen children â" sorry, sixteen teenagers. Thatâs nineteen sojourners bound for Florida. So why did my headcount come to twenty?
388. MARY JANE
I think you counted the bus driver, Mrs. Parker.
Oh, that I did.
Hey, twist my arm! Iâll go to Miami with you guys!!
Was anyone talking to you?
Then eyes front.
Harry, are you all right?
I dunno. All this stopping and starting. My stomachâs a little queasyâ¦
Dude. Does this bus rock or what?!
Damn right itâs cool. Wouldnât mind taking this baby all the way to Florida.
Excuse me?! Itâs a bus.
Sallyâs right. Weâre not ditching the private jet for a bus. Right, Jason?
It really is a very nice bus though.
Hey, Iâm not offended. I still canât believe the Osborns hired me again. The last time, I got in two-- <impact grunt>
Dude, you totally rear-ended that guy at the tollbooth!
Wonderful. Now, weâll be stuck here forever!
Everybody stay calm.
Ah, man, gotta use the johnâ¦
<laughs> I think Osbornâs gonna hurl!
Oh. My. God! If my hair starts smelling like vomit, Iâll sue you for bus-driver malpractice!!
Bishansky, Sally, Kong, Harry, May, Seymour, Peter, Jason, Liz, Flash, Rand, Gwen and Mary Jane sit. Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
The sun sets. At the castle, the gargoyles awakenâ¦
415. BROOKLYN, BROADWAY, LEXINGTON
You must be Zafiro.
How did you know?
Strong family resemblance.
Long story. Time travel. The future. A whole other spin-off. Two actuallyâ¦
We donât have time for your âspin-offsâ. Â¿Donde esta Goliath?
He didnât sleep here.
But Iâm sure heâll be back soon.
Heâd better. We have trouble. Demona trouble.
Hi, Obsidiana. Iâm betting you have trouble tooâ¦
Elisa, Obsidiana, Lexington, Broadway, Brooklyn and Zafiro sit. Kraven, Calypso, Curt and Gulyadkin STAND.
And while the clan awaits Goliathâs returnâ¦
It is time, Calypso.
Yes. The forces gather. We can make this one our own.
I demand you let me go!
Hold your tongue, American dog. Or Gulyadkin will hold it for you.
<low lion growl>
Calm yourselfâ¦ This change will not be difficult. The primitive bound within is barely skin-deepâ¦
I-- I donât know what youâre talking about.
I think you do. You see my companion. The details may have been created in a laboratoryâ¦
But the soul of the Hunter â" the beast inside â" was always my own.
What are doing with that doll?
Turning it inside out.
Listen to me, please. Even if you can release the âbeast insideâ, you donât want to! It canât be controlled.
<laughs> Nyet. Not by you perhaps. But my Calypso is not so easily trifled with.
It is timeâ¦
Noooo!!!! <transformation scream>
Curt Connors is transformed by Calypsoâs magic into the Lizard.
Nowâ¦ to the Hunt!
Kraven, LIZARD, Calypso and Gulyadkin sit. Obsidiana, Zafiro, Angela, Elisa, Goliath, Broadway and Brooklyn STAND.
Back at the Castle, Goliath has returned, and the entire clan has gathered. Elisaâs revealed what she knows about Demona. Now, itâs Obsidianaâs turnâ¦
It came from somewhere further south. Two human smugglers carrying an object of great power through the Greenâ¦
My mate is sensitive to these things. We tracked them, but they boarded a jet airplane and were soon out of our reach.
Pero still I could sense great forces gathering. I asked Jade and Turquesa to teach us the way to Avalonâ¦
Gabriel says hello, by the way.
Oh, I miss him. How is he?
Angela, honey, letâs stay on point. I take it Avalon sent you here.
Yes. We nearly achieved the totem, but a ridiculous human dressed in red and blueâ"
454. ELISA, GOLIATH (UNISON)
He did spin webs like a spider. Though from his hands, not hisâ"
Focus, mi amor.
Lo siento. This Man-Spider, he interfered. The smugglers escaped again. Now, power builds on power, rising to a crescendo.
And thatâs bad, right?
Elisaâs cellphone rings.
Itâs Matt. Somethingâs going down at the OsCorp vault off the Expressway. Most of the Taskforce is already here. Stacy and his men too. But Iâm thinking we might needâ¦ âback-upâ. Lots and lots of back-up.
Weâre on our way. Brooklyn, can Bronx and Fu-Dog baby-sit Egwardo?
Good. Because otherwise itâs all hands on deck.
Elisa, Brooklyn, Broadway, Obsidiana, Zafiro, Goliath and Angela sit. George, Morgan and OâNeil STAND.
Okay, Captain. The rest of the Taskforce is on its way.
My men are deployed.
And just in time! Cuz we got Gobby and his Pumpkin-Heads at 12 oâclock!
Green Goblin and Pumpkin Bomb STAND.
468. GREEN GOBLIN
469. PUMPKIN BOMB
And a gargoyle at 3 oâclock!
Thatâs not a gargoyle. Thatâs the Vulture!
You were right, Otto. The police were waiting. And the Goblin is here too. You donât think it could actually be Osborn, still alive, do you?
Doctor Octopus and Electro STAND.
473. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Do not get distracted by old grudges, Adrian. It hardly matters who wears the Green. His intent is still to prevent me from regaining my arms. You must keep the Goblin and the authorities occupied.
475. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Now, Electro. Open the vault.
Roger that, Doc!
Electro, already inside, short-circuits the vaultâs electro-magnetic lock.
Tinkerer and Demona STAND.
Electroâs breached the vault.
So predictable. Send in your operatives.
Tinkerer opens a burlap sack, releasing his five âoperativesâ.
HOMUNCULUS #1, HOMUNCULUS #2, HOMUNCULUS #3, HOMUNCULUS #4 and HOMUNCULUS #5 STAND.
481. HOMUNCULUS #1
Homunculi to the rescue!
482. HOMUNCULUS #2
Dirty work to be done!
483. HOMUNCULUS #3
484. HOMUNCULUS #4
Uh oh, somebodyâs language systemâs off-line again.
485. HOMUNCULUS #5
You know it, girlfriend!
Calypso, Kraven and Lizard STAND.
And down in the sewerâ¦
It is right above us, my love. The Power and the Glory. The very keys to the Kingdom.
And Kraven will lay them all at your feet.
Up top, a stretch limo skids to a stop outside the vault. Dominic Dracon and Fancy Dan emerge.
Dracon and FANCY DAN STAND.
All right, boys. Get me those jewels!
492. FANCY DAN
I think what the boss means isâ¦ Destroy the competition!
Carnage, Colonel Jupiter and Venom STAND.
<evil chuckle> Carnage time?
494. FANCY DAN
Yeah. Go. Kill. Whatever.
495. COLONEL JUPITER
Colonel Jupiter will stop the Green Goblin and Vulture in their tracks!
496. FANCY DAN
Knock yourself out. But what are you waiting for?
Someone worthy of our hate. But we have faithâ¦ Heâll comeâ¦
498. GREEN GOBLIN
My, my, the fieldâs getting crowded. Letâs thin the herd. Pumpkin-Heads, release the hounds! <ahem> That was a metaphor. Throw your pumpkin bombs already!
499. PUMPKIN BOMB
Pumpkin Bomb, Green Goblin, Venom, Fancy Dan, Colonel Jupiter, Carnage, Dracon, Lizard, Kraven, Calypso, Homunculus #5, Homunculus #4, Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Demona, Tinkerer, Electro, Doctor Octopus, Vulture, George, Morgan, OâNeil and Matt SIT. May, Peter, Bishansky, Flash, Kong, Sally, Mary Jane, Gwen and Harry STAND.
Goodness, what was that?
Something The Bugle will want pictures of. Open the door.
Peter Parker, I am not letting you off this bus in the middle of the expressway.
Aunt May weâre at a complete standstill. And you donât have to worry. Iâll use my telephoto lens. I wonât be anywhere near the action.
I suppose it is your jobâ¦ Open the door.
Thanks, Aunt May. You rock!
If Puny Parkerâs going, Iâm going too!
Eugene Thompson, you sit your backside down in that seat right this minute.
Whatâs he going to take pictures with? I saw his camera get blown up two months ago.
513. MARY JANE
Peteâs a professional photographer, Sally. Iâm sure he has more than one camera.
Harryâ¦ Are you all right in there?
<vomit noise> Ugh, donât come in. It really isnât pretty.
Harry, Gwen, Mary Jane, Sally, Kong, Flash, May, Peter and Bishansky sit. Broadway, Goliath, Brooklyn, Angela, Elisa, Zafiro and Obsidiana STAND.
The clan alights on a rise overlooking the battlefield.
Whoa, what a messâ¦
We will split our forces. Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway, Obsidiana, Zafiro with me.
Shouldnât I lead the other contingent?
I need your experience and your weapons at my side.
Donât worry, Brooklyn, weâve got it covered.
Angela, Hudson, Katana, Gnash, Coldstone and Coldfire glide toward the battle.
523. BROOKLYN, BROADWAY (UNISON)
You know Iâm going with you.
Not this time, Elisa. You must join your fellow officersâ¦
When all is settled, we shall need your help to cover our retreat from this conflagrationâ¦ You know this is true.
Elisa sits. Spider-Man STANDS.
Elisa makes her way down the hill. Goliath and the others glide to the Vaultâs roof. Spider-Man lands there at the same time.
530. SPIDER-MAN, ZAFIRO (UNISON)
Hold, Spider-Man. I have a friend who knows your Captain Stacy.
This policeman believes in you. So I choose to believe in you as well.
Says the eight-foot tall medieval monster. But I get it. Weâre on the same side. So letâs go kick some Pumpkin-Butt!
Â¡Idiota! That battle is a mere distraction.
The true danger lies withinâ¦
All right, all right, you had me at âIdiotaâ.
The gargoyles rip open the rooftop. The seven heroes descend, but someone watchesâ¦
Spider-Man, Obsidiana, Zafiro, Goliath, Broadway and Brooklyn sit. Venom and Fancy Dan STAND.
And there goes our Broâ¦
540. FANCY DAN
You going in? That wasnât the plan!
And how do intend to stop us?
542. FANCY DAN
Fine, go. But if you see my Ricochet suit, bring it out!
Fancy Dan and Venom sit. Foswell, Jonah and Robbie STAND.
See, J.J. The tip from Draconâs old chauffer was right on the money.
Whaddaya want, a fershlugginer medal?! Letâs get in there!
Slow down, Jonah. I promised Joan I wouldnât let you lose your head, figuratively or literally.
Forget my head! Who cares about my head?! My boy needs me!
Ned and Colonel Jupiter STAND.
Looks to me like your boyâs doing pretty well, Chief!
548. COLONEL JUPITER
Take that, miscreants!
Ned, how did youâ"
Tip from one of the pumpkin-heads. Foswellâs not the only one with sources.
You two can naked mud-wrestle over whoâs the biggest brown-noser later. For now, Robbie, if you donât let go of me in zero-point-zero seconds, Iâll dropkick you to next Season! And thereâs no guarantee thereâll be a next Season!
Jonah breaks away from Robbie, but his path is blockedâ¦
Get back! You want to wind up street pizza!
But thatâs my son up there.
Yeah, well, at least heâs fighting on the right side.
556. COLONEL JUPITER
Nothing stands against the might of Colonel Jupiter!
Does he always talk like that?
Bombasticism runs in the family.
Robbie, Elisa, Colonel Jupiter, Jonah, Ned and Foswell sit. Vulture, Carnage, Green Goblin, Angela, Fancy Dan, Matt and Dracon STAND.
Jupiter takes down Pumpkin-Heads right and left. Hudson squares off against Vulture.
Why do I get the old guy?
Youâre old. Heâs old. Itâs parallelism. Get over it.
Coldstone and Coldfire isolate Carnage.
No fair! These two donât spatter at all!
Angela and Katana take on the Goblin.
564. GREEN GOBLIN
Oh, goody. Gobby likes getting down and dirty with the hotties.
Oh, you did not just say that.
And little Gnash goes after Fancy Dan.
567. FANCY DAN
Admit it, you gave me the kid because Iâm short?
Even Detective Bluestone gets into the act.
Youâre confused. Iâm G.F. Benton, a certified public accountant. I think Iâll be going nowâ¦
Yeah. Back to Ravencroft, you old nutter!
But inside, things are a bit more seriousâ¦
Matt, Dracon, Fancy Dan, Angela, Green Goblin, Carnage and Vulture sit. Electro and Doctor Octopus STAND.
Got your arms, Doc!
574. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
And my Megalo-Pack?
Youâre Mega-what now?
576. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
My power-source, Maxwell.
Right, right. No. Thatâs not here.
578. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Homunculus #1, Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #3 STAND.
579. HOMUNCULUS #1
Gotta get the true treasure!
580. HOMUNCULUS #2
Bring it back to the big Smurfette!
581. HOMUNCULUS #3
Blunk hates getting wet!
Three Homunculi fly deeper into the vault to retrieve Demonaâs prize.
Homunculus #3, Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #1 sit. Zafiro, Spider-Man, Lexington, Homunculus #5, Goliath, Brooklyn, Broadway and Obsidiana STAND.
What are those things?!
584. SPIDER-MAN, LEXINGTON (UNISON)
And I got one!
586. HOMUNCULUS #5
Leggo, you big bully!
<ugh> What an annoying voiceâ¦
588. HOMUNCULUS #5
(aside to audience)
Look whoâs talking.
â¦But I might be able to use it to take control of the others.
I think I can help.
Youâll be a little too busy for that, Bro.
Friend of yours?
Once upon a time. Not so much now.
595. VENOM, SPIDER-MAN
<add-lib battle sounds>
A little help?
Brooklyn blasts Venom, who collapses.
Sonic Cannon. Circa 2198. Guess my weapons do come in handy.
Just cover me until I can get this workingâ¦
Demona and Tinkerer STAND.
Whatâs wrong, Tinkerer? Why havenât they returned?
Someoneâs trying to counter their programming. He wonât succeed.
He had better not.
My hackâs being hacked!
Heâs overriding my override!
Homunculus #4 STANDS.
606. HOMUNCULUS #4
Go right. Go left. Go right. Go left. Blow up!
Homunculus #4 blows up. But so does Homunculus #5 in Lexingtonâs hands!
Homunculus #4 and Homunculus #5 sit.
610. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
This is madness! Grab my arms and get me out of here!
Workinâ on it!
Electro blasts away, until he and Doc Ock are blindsided byâ¦
Kraven, Gulyadkin, Lizard and Calypso STAND.
613. ELECTRO, DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Look, itâs Claw.
Thatâs not Claw.
Well, itâs sure not Maggie.
Is that an actual lion?
Lizard, too? Seriously, this is way over the top.
Homunculus #1 and Homunculus #2 STAND.
622. HOMUNCULUS #1
Got the gizmo!
623. HOMUNCULUS #2
Homunculi never fail!
Two homunculi fly past, carrying a sealed container down a dark corridor.
625. CALYPSO, OBSIDIANA (UNISON)
(pointing at each other)
Donât let her near it!
Go, Calypso! Leave them to us!
Â¡Vaya, mi amor!
We got your back, Goliath! Go!
Think Iâll tag along tooâ¦
Spider-Man, Obsidiana, Calypso, Homunculus #2, Homunculus #1, Goliath, Tinkerer and Demona sit.
Calypso, Obsidiana, Goliath and Spider-Man race down the corridor.
Lizard, take the reptile!
Â¡No soy ningÃºn reptil! Â¡Soy un GÃ¡rgolo!
633. ZAFIRO, LIZARD
<ad-lib battle sounds>
Gulyadkin and Kraven attack Lex and Broadway!
Hey, get him off me!
Kinda busy at the moment!
639. GULYADKIN, LEXINGTON, KRAVEN, BROADWAY
Brooklyn steps in and pulls both cats off his rookery brothers. They turn on him.
642. BROADWAY, LEXINGTON (UNISON)
All for one!
The two gargoyles return the favor, knocking Kraven and Gulyadkin aside. Then Brooklyn blasts them both.
And one for all!
645. KRAVEN, GULYADKIN
Some things never change.
Zafiro throws Lizardâs unconscious body on top of Kravenâ¦
648. KRAVEN, LIZARD
We should follow Obsidianaâ¦
650. ZAFIRO, BROOKLYN, LEXINGTON, BROADWAY
The four gargoyles are dropped by Electroâs blast.
Still want out?
653. DOCTOR OCTOPUS
Indeed not. My curiosity is piqued. Letâs see where this leadsâ¦
Doctor Octopus, Electro, Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn, Zafiro, Gulyadkin, Kraven and Lizard sit. Demona, Homunculus #1 and Homunculus #2 STAND.
Electro and Octopus head down the corridorâ¦ In a dimly lit room, Demona holds the Spear of Destiny and watches as the two homunculi open the container. Insideâ¦ is a crown of thorns.
The Crown of Thorns!
Demona removes her tiara.
Place it on my headâ¦
658. HOMUNCULUS #1
659. HOMUNCULUS #2
Homunculi aim to please!
The Homunculi gently lower the crown onto Demonaâs head before disappearing back into the darkness. The thorns bite into her brow, drawing blood. Calypso, Obsidiana, Goliath and Spidey come rushing in.
Homunculus #2 and Homunculus #1 sit. Spider-Man, Goliath, Calypso and Obsidiana STAND.
My Kingdom come. My Will be doneâ¦
Friend of yours?
Once upon a time. Not so much now.
On Earth as it is in Heavenâ¦
For MINE is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory for ever and everâ¦
668. CALYPSO, OBSIDIANA, SPIDER-MAN (UNISON)
Light radiates outward from the Spear. Goliath watches in confusion as Calypso, Obsidiana and Spider-Man drop to their knees before Demona. Octopus and Electro enter and likewise fall to their knees. The light reaches the outer vault. Though still unconscious, Venom, Lizard, Zafiro and Kraven lurch to their feet, then drop to their knees. And still the light advancesâ¦
Obsidiana and Calypso sit.
What sorcery is this?!
The most powerful human sorcery ever created, Goliath. This is humanityâs Armageddon. Their entire raceâs final act.
END ACT TWO
NEXT: ACT THREE...
G2008 Radio Play (Chapter VII)
XANATOS, COLDSTEEL & COYOTE STAND.
NOVEMBER 2, 6:46AM EST. Scarab Corp. Coldsteel looks on, as David Xanatos installs a diamond inside Coyote 5.0.
And what would that be?
Itâs called the Coyote Diamondâ¦
Chapter Seven: The Rock.
The stoneâs flawless surfaces and clarity increase the speed of--
Iâm sorry I asked.
My apologies. Iâm sure youâre much more interested in your own situation.
I was under the impression I had free will.
And you do. I promise summoning you was a one-time event. On the other hand, your unit does include a built-in tracking deviceâ¦ which Iâm happy to deactivateâ¦
Permanently. All I ask in return is help on one small errand. Are we agreed?
We are agreed.
XANATOS, COLDSTEEL & COYOTE sit. TALON, SATO, MAGGIE & ELISA STAND.
3:52PM EST. The Labyrinth. Talon cradles Maggie the Cat, as Dr. Jay Sato examines her. Elisa Maza looks on.
How is she, Doc?
Well, her pulse is fine, and her injuries seem to be healing nicelyâ¦
See, Derek, I said you were worried over nothing.
But Iâm a surgeon. Treating someone in Maggieâsâ¦ âconditionâ is really not my area.
Not anyoneâs, Dr. Sato. Anyone we dare trust anyway.
Itâs as if youâve revealed a new world to meâ¦
Yep, youâre a medical pioneer.
Pioneer or not, she needs an O.B.
TALON, SATO, MAGGIE & ELISA sit. Macbeth, BROOKLYN, GOLIATH, BROADWAY, OWEN & Xanatos STAND.
4:50PM EST. Eyrie Building. As the sun sets, Owen Burnett and Macbeth wait for Goliath to wake. NOVEMBER 2, 5:12PM EST. Inside the Great Hall, Macbeth addresses Goliath, Brooklyn, Hudson, Angela, Broadway, Bronx and Lexington.
Itâs called the Stone of Destiny. For centuries the kings of Scotland were crowned upon it at Sconeâ¦
Magic talking stone. Weâve heard of it.
Yes, well, the English stole it. Now, after eight hundred years, itâs finally being returned. Iâm asking for your help to ensure it gets to Scotland safely.
Donât you haveâ¦ minionsâ¦ for this?
Weâve parted ways. Please, Goliath. Many â" including your landlord â" would stop at nothing to get the Stone.
I have been wounded twice in one week. I am healed â" but not whole. But my second, Brooklyn, can lead Broadway, Lexington and Angela to join your quest.
Yeah, weâre goinâ to Scotland!!
Well, England to start with--
I donât know, Goliath, if youâre recovering, maybe this is the wrong time to send me overseas.
Ahâ¦ Yes. You are needed here. Hudson may lead this expedition.
Owen, watching the exchange by closed circuit, talks on the phone to Xanatos, whoâs about to board a private plane.
Yes, Macbeth, Hudson, Broadway, Angela and Lexingtonâ¦ Shall I attempt to stop them?
That wonât be necessary. I believe Iâve planned for this contingency.
Back in the Great Hall, Angela whispers in Broadwayâs ear.
Uhâ¦ yeahâ¦ Manhattanâs dangerous right now. Me and Angelaâll stay too. To help Brooklyn.
Thatâs great. Thanks.
Macbeth, Brooklyn, Goliath, Broadway, Owen & Xanatos sit. SHARI STANDS.
NOVEMBER 3, 5:29AM EST. Nightstone Unlimited. Shari and Thailog are in Dominique Destineâs office.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of two brothers who both loved the same female. And though all strife comes to an end one way or another, some conflicts refuse to stay dead. Xanatos and Demona used science and sorcery to create a monster from fragments of all three gargoyles, their bodies and souls. But in the end, the souls were segregated into Coldstone, Coldfire and Coldsteel. Itâs really a timeless love story.
SHARI sits. Macbeth, CUSTOMS OFFICIAL, LEXINGTON & HUDSON STAND.
3:00PM GMT. London. A private jet lands. Customs Officials greet Macbeth, as workers wheel two large crates from the planeâs hold.
55. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
57. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Welcome to England, sir. Anything to declare?
Works of art for my home in Berkeley Square.
59. CUSTOMS OFFICIAL
Have to have a look in, sir.
The crates are opened, revealing Lexington and Hudson, frozen in stone. 4:30PM GMT. Macbeth waits on the roof of his Berkeley Square Townhouse for Hudson and Lexington to wake. The sun sets. 5:07PM. Itâs past sunset. Hudson and Lex are STILL frozen in stone. 6:15PM. Night. No change. 7:01PM. Macbeth grows concerned. 7:45PM. Hudson and Lex finally wake.
62. LEXINGTON, HUDSON
Whoa, I donât feel so hotâ¦ and look how dark it is? How long have we been asleep?
Welcome, lad, to the wonderful world of jetlag. Donât worry. Youâve got ten days to adjust before they move the Stone.
Macbeth, CUSTOMS OFFICIAL, LEXINGTON & HUDSON sit. Shari, INTERCOM & VINNIE STAND.
NOVEMBER 4, 5:30AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog soaks in a jacuzzi. Shari sits nearby.
The story is told -- though who can say if it be true-- of Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abrahamâ¦ who fled the wrath of his brother Esau to a place he would call Bethel, where he laid his head upon a stone and had a wondrous vision!
5:35AM EST. J.F.K.
Flight 994, now boarding all rowsâ¦
Can you believe it? Iâm goinâ to Japan!
Shari, Intercom & Vinnie sit. Goliath & Elisa STAND.
9:48PM EST. Goliathâs Tower.
About Halloweenâ¦ I will not hold you to words spoken when you believed my life hung in the balance.
Even if I want to be held?
I know you care for me. That is not at issue. But what of the things I cannot give youâ¦ picnicsâ¦ normalcyâ¦?
We can have a picnic anytimeâ¦ and normalcyâs so over-rated.
She runs her fingers through his hair. He takes her into his arms and kisses her.
Goliath & Elisa sit. Shari STANDS.
NOVEMBER 5, 5:31AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog and Shari look out over the city.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" that Gathelus, a son of the king of Athens, won many victories for the Pharaoh of Egypt, who rewarded the prince with the hand of his beloved: Pharaohâs own daughter, Scota. But Gathelus had also befriended Moses, the Hebrew, who warned his young friends of the plagues to befall the Kingdom of the Nile. Gathelus and Scota determined to leave Egypt, and Moses entrusted them with Jacobâs Pillow, the Hebrewsâ sacred stoneâ¦
NOVEMBER 6, 5:32AM EST. ST. DAMIENâS CATHEDRAL. Thailog, Shari and Brentwood search for something.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" that Gathelus fled Egypt with his wife and the Stone of the Hebrews. He sought landfall on the rocky shores of Samothrace, for Scota was heavy with child and could go no farther. Still destiny blessed them with fine twin sonsâ¦
6:00AM EST. Thailog flies Shari across the city. Brentwood follows.
Gathelus and his family would wander the globe for two years before finding a home on the Iberian Peninsula in a place they named the Port of Gathelus, or Portugal. By this time the family had grown: the Athenian prince and Egyptian princess now had four healthy boys in their care not to mention one large Stone.
NOVEMBER 7, 5:33AM EST. Thailog and Shari begin a game of chess.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" that after the death of her beloved Gathelus, Scota departed Portugal with her eight sonsâ¦ only to lose five of the boys at seaâ¦ while Scota herself and another son died warriorâs deaths upon landing in Ireland. But her eldest boy, Eremon, and her youngest, Eber Finn, survived, and Eremon was crowned king upon the Stone at Tara.
Shari sits. Xanatos & FOX stand.
2:18PM GMT. Mayfair. Xanatos takes Alexander from Fox.
Darling, if you like the shoes, buy themâ¦
The black manolos in the windowâ¦ do you have them in a size nine? Lovely. Wrap them up, please.
2:45PM GMT. Fox exits the store.
7:19PM GMT. Fox admires her new shoes in the full-length mirror of her hotel room. Xanatos admires the shoebox.
Darling? Do you still need this shoeboxâ¦ or might I dispose of it?
Xanatos & Fox sit. Shari & THAILOG STAND.
NOVEMBER 8, 5:34AM EST. Nightstone. Thailog and Shari continue their chess game.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Moses, who led the Hebrews out of Egypt and into the desertâ¦ bringing forth water from Jacobâs Pillow to quench their--
You said Moses gave the Stone to Gathelus and Scota before leading the Hebrews out of Egypt!
The story is toldâ¦
<pause> Though who can say if it be true? Right. Continue.
The Hebrews passed the Stone down the centuries, until the prophet Jeremiah offered it in dowry to King Eochaid of Ireland when he wed Tamar Tea Tephi, Princess of Judah. Eochaid ensconced the Stone at Tara and dubbed it Lia FÃ¡il.
NOVEMBER 9, 5:36AM EST.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Cu Chullain, the Hero of Ulster, who championed Lugaid Red-Stripe for king. But when the Lia FÃ¡il would not cry to confirm Lugaid, Cu Chullain was enraged, striking with Gae Bolga, the Spear of Light, and splitting the Stone of Destiny forever!
NOVEMBER 10, 5:37AM EST. Shari captures Thailogâs white knight with her black bishop.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of young Prince Fergus of Ireland, who carried half Cu Chullainâs handiwork to Argyll in what men now call Scotland to found a kingdom called Dalriada. Though a castle called Carbonek found him instead, bringing the Priest-King Pelles and the Archmage Merlin and their request to borrow the Stone of Destiny for a purpose of their own. A purpose fulfilled in Londontown by a sword clepâd Excalibur in a stone clepâd Lia FÃ¡il drawn forth by a boy clepâd Arthur.
NOVEMBER 11, 5:38AM EST. Thailog tips over one of Shariâs black rooks with his white bishop.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Saint Columba, he who tamed the monster of Loch Ness, before returning to the island of Iona, where Merlin and Pelles had brought the Stone once it had served their purposes. And where Columba laid down his head upon Jacobâs Pillow and breathed his last.
NOVEMBER 12, 5:39AM EST. Shariâs Black Queen is lined up to capture Thailogâs White King.
Would you prefer I lost on purpose?
Iâd fire you if you did. Donât you have a story to tell?
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Kenneth MacAlpin, scion of Fergus, who united the Kingdoms of Scotland and was crowned High King upon the Stone at Scone. As would all the Heirs of Scota â" for the next four hundred years.
NOVEMBER 12, 10:00PM GMT. David Xanatos presses a button on a remote control. NOVEMBER 13, 6:01AM GMT+8. TIBET. Inside the old cave, Coldstone and Coldfire stand over Master Dawa and Sangpo. All react to a noise.
I believeâ¦ I believe I can find himâ¦
NOVEMBER 13, 5:40AM EST. NIGHTSTONE.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Edward the First of England, the Hammer of the Scots, who sicced his mighty Warwolf on his neighbors to the north and took as prize the Stone of Scone, which he installed in the Coronation Chair at Westminster Abbey, where it has crowned the kings and queens of England down to this very dayâ¦
Shari & Thailog sit. Lexington, Macbeth, Hudson, Arthur, GRIFF, AMP & COCO STAND.
NOVEMBER 13, 5:32PM GMT. Hudson and Lex are atop Victoria Tower. Macbeth is below, in front of Westminster Abbey.
All clear. No sign of trouble.
Not expecting trouble tonight. Theyâre only moving the Stone from the Coronation Chair to the Lantern. It wonât leave the Abbey until tomorrow.
Aye, and the human security is tight as a drum. Iâm nae convinced you could break in there with a battering ram.
Youâd be surprised.
<yawn> Still nothing to report. Who exactly are we expecting?
Anyone. Everyone. Just stay alertâ¦
Macbeth spots a shadowy figure and pursues it down into a London Underground Stationâ¦
Iâm probably on a wild goose chase, lads. But in case Iâm not, youâd better head thisâ¦ wayâ¦
That could be a problemâ¦
Arthur Pendragon puts Excalibur to Macbethâs throat. Meanwhile, on Victoria Tower, Hudson and Lex are surrounded by gargoyles.
By the blade of Excalibur, what are you up to now, Macbeth?
King Arthur?! Iâm here to protect the Stone of Destiny!
Then our two quests are one and the same!
129. ARTHUR, MACBETH (UNISON)
Theyâll be at each otherâs throats!!
Hudson! Lexington! Bloody lovely to see you again!
You too, Griff!
Aye, lad. The baddunsâll have no chance at that Stone now!
NOVEMBER 14, 5:28AM. Macbeth radios Lex.
Itâll soon be dawn. You and Hudson go with Griff. Arthur and I will stand vigil through the day.
Arthur & Macbeth sit.
5:33AM GMT. Griff, Hudson, Lex and the other two gargoyles glide over London.
Are we headed to Soho? Goliath said you have a store thereâ¦
We do. But I thought Iâd take you home instead. To our clan--
To Knightâs Spur!
You know, Griff, I donât believe weâve been properly introduced to your Yank friendsâ¦
<Hmph> Watch who youâre callinâ a Yank, lassâ¦
Where are my manners? Hudson, Lexington, this is Constance.
My friends call me Coco.
And this is Staghart.
My friends call me Amp!
Nobody calls you Amp, luv.
Iâll call you Amp.
Welcome to Knightâs Spurâ¦
7:20AM. Atop Knightâs Spur, Old Pog, Hudson, Griff, Lex, Amp, Coco and Lunette sleep as stone.
Hudson, Lexington, Griff, Amp & Coco sit. Arthur & Macbeth STAND.
7:48AM. Macbeth and Arthur sip coffee outside a Nightstoneâs cafÃ©.
â¦Mortally wounded in 542. So they shipped me off to some magic hill and put me to sleep for a thousand four hundred fifty-three years.
Deal with a demon in 1040. Officially died in 1057. Been sleepwalking for nine hundred thirty-nine years.
<pause> Guess I got the better bargain.
Ach, I try not to dwell these days. So hereâs to the immortals. There arenât many like usâ¦
Arthur & Macbeth sit. Shari STANDS.
NOVEMBER 14, 5:42AM EST. NIGHTSTONE. Shari places her black knight in front of Thailogâs white knight.
The story is told â" though who can say if it be true â" of Robert the Bruce of Scotland, who defeated the English at Bannockburn with the help of an Irish ally, Cormac MacCarthy. With the victory, came a prize: a fragment of the Fatal Stone that England had taken from Scone. This fragment, the Bruce gave to MacCarthy, whose descendents had it installed at Blarney Castle, where it is said to grant the gift of gab. Iâve kissed it myself a time or twoâ¦
Shari sits. Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur STAND.
NOVEMBER 14, 6:32PM GMT. Knightâs Spur. Hudson, Macbeth and Arthur confer in a book-lined study.
Lex, Griff, Constance and Staghart sent you home to rest thenâ¦
Aye, Hudson. Weâll catch a few hours sleep then head back out. But youâ¦?
I had some questions for the Pendragon. Werenât you on a quest to find your wizard?
Indeed. And Sir Griff and I searched for Merlin in all the obvious places. But to no gain. So Iâve been âdoing researchâ on Merlinâ¦ and on myself.
Hudson examines a copy of Le Morte DâArthur by Thomas Malory.
So many booksâ¦ are any of them true?
All things are trueâ¦ few things are accurate.
Aye. No bloody kidding.
Hudson contemplates this.
Hudson, Macbeth & Arthur sit.
Tomorrow, Chapter VIII...
Why did Thailog not clone Angela? I know in the past you've said that Demona never released the mosquito to gain Angela's dna and that's why. But Thailog could have easily have had his own mosquito(sounds so silly when I say it like that) and got dna samples from the clan himself like he did from Demona and Eliza. Wouldn't he have wanted the additionally manpower? He was planning on betraying Demona anyway that's why he created Delilah. Why respect Demona wishes with Angela? Did he think the other male clones would be easier to control without another female gargoyle?
Your premise is incorrect.
When would Thailog have had the opportunity to gather Angela's DNA (before Clan-Building, I mean)? He got Elisa's DNA from one of Demona's mosquitos. We saw that in the episode. One presumes he got Demona's the same way. That is, the mosquitos were released and took a blood sample. It's not like Demona could tell them whom to bite. Her only control was to NOT release a mosquito. So when Angela was around, she didn't release one.
I'd like to thank you for the birthday present. "Bad Guys" #4 came out on August 20, my birthday, so I consider it a birthday present from you (though purely thanks to the coincidence of timing).
I'd suspected that Sevarius's plan to mutate a lot of people at one go (mentioned in the teaser at the end of #3) would involve the New Year's Eve celebration in Times Square, after it was revealed in #3 that this adventure was taking place on New Year's Eve (the New Year's Eve Celebrity Hockey marathon) - but I was cautious at the same time, simply because such schemes have shown up so often in super-hero cartoons. (I've seen two Batman cartoons where the villain - in one case, the Joker himself - was attempting to gas Gotham City during its equivalent of the Times Square countdown, and it seemed too much of a cliche. But then I remembered that this *is* Sevarius we're talking about, and so the idea didn't seem so improbable. I was pleased that my suspicion was correct.
While Sevarius is his usual over-the-top self, his mutating got much darker than in "Metamorphosis". For one thing, he's now including children among his victims. And then there's Tasha's suicide, which took me by surprise. I wonder who employed him to produce so many Mutates, incidentally.
Fang was his usual loudmouth self (I particularly liked his grumbling over Sevarius having to be so over-the-top as to have the virus go off at precisely midnight). And he showed how insensitive he can be when he dared make a joke about Tasha's hanging herself (I can't say I blame Yama for responding as he did). I'm not surprised that nobody on the Redemption Squad (except for the still off-stage Director, and possibly Matrix - we didn't see his response) wants him on the team.
Was the DNA sample from Angela left over from "Monsters" (when Sevarius took samples from her and thereby learned of her parentage) or from the more recent Double Date Halloween battle?
Trust Brendan and Margot to be present at the countdown (and their usual selves, too).
More Dingo-and-Matrix interaction (I liked Dingo's protest when Matrix "abandoned" him to stop the virus from escaping, and Matrix's explanation). Those two make a fun team.
I'm looking forward to #5 (whether it comes out as a single issue or as part of the trade paperback collection), and the identity of the mystery figure from Dingo's past. (I have a suspicion as to who he might be, but because of the "no ideas" rule, all that I'll say is that it has to do with Dingo's real name - and where else I've come across it before).
Once again, thank you for the birthday present, Greg.
Angela's sample was from "Monsters".
What would Demona do if she knew how Elisa Maza stopped Macbeth from killing her, and how she told Angela that she was her mother when Goliath refused to do so?
Let's find out...
First of all, thank you for such an intelligent, brilliantly-written series.
Secondly, I have a question regarding Broadway and Angela's kiss in The Journey. I'm sorry if this has been answered before, but I don't recall finding anything related to it in the archives.
You've stated (I believe in the DVD commentary) that gargoyles don't kiss to show affection, but rather wrap their wings around each other and stroke each other's hair. So why do Broadway and Angela kiss? I've had a number of theories, myself:
1. being younger, Broadway and Angela (especially Angela) have been heavily influenced by the tendencies of humans, ie. ways of displaying affection. I mean, Angela must have seen Tom macking on Katherine a few times back on Avalon, right? Not to mention the fact that the eggs were raised in an unconventional (human) way.
2. To show the pair actally kissing would have truly established them as a solid couple in the minds of viewers. It's also a lot more heart-wrenching to see them kiss with Brooklyn watching them.
3. It WAS The Goliath Chronicles, and the writers weren't aware of all the nuances in the world of the gargoyles.
Well, I've probably gone and answered my question, in there. But thanks for taking the time to read through this, anyway!
You and Gargoyles truly are the bees' knees.
We're stuck with 1 & 2, since I was the writer of "The Journey".
Hello Greg, long time fan of gargoyles, and most of my questions about the Gargoyles universe have been answered by browsing the archives but these questions.
I see from the archives that Angela and Broadway will raise their children in the traditional gargoyles fashion, and I am assuming that Brooklyn and Katana will try to do the same. But this has led me to some interesting questions about the relationships between generations of gargoyles in the same clan.
I have seen that from the first episode that gargoyles from the same rookery generation call one another rookery brother or rookery sister, or if there are close bonds just brother and sister. So my first question is do gargoyles have the same endearing names for an older or younger generation with in the clan, for example rookery mother, rookery father, rookery son, rookery daughter, or some other term like those? Yes I do know that Goliath's generation calls Hudson My Mentor, I am assuming that is so only because he was the leader and teacher of the clan before Goliath.
Another is I have noticed that Hudson has a stronger relationship with Goliath then any other of Goliath's rookery siblings, or at least just the ones we have met so far. I am assuming this is do to, that Hudson saw Goliath's potential as a successor and paid special attention to him to prepare him for the role. I have also noticed that gargoyles in one generation develop strong ties with a few siblings like Coldstone's and Goliath's relationship. My next question is do stronger relationships develop between certain hatchlings and certain members of the parenting generation or members of another older generation of gargoyles?
But in Mark of the Panther Goliath, who is having trouble dealing and even understanding Angela's unusual need for parents and her attachment to him after she finds that she is his biological daughter, says to Elisa's mother Diane "gargoyle hatchlings belong to the whole clan, I cannot hold one hatchling over the others." So are these kinds of relationships, I have asked about in the previous paragraph, taboo, shunned, frowned upon, or generally accepted as a part of the growing up process of young gargoyles, or are they just Goliath's personal words do to the fact that he is the clan leader?
Thanks for even putting up a general questions website, not many writers do that or post the site on there publications. I apologize for my long winded questions but it just the way I write. Just to let you know Gargoyles has been a huge influence in my own stories and don't worry I have absolutely no fan fictions of Gargoyles and I have never understood why people have to do them, they don't make sense to me any ways.
I can't wait for Brooklyn's little trip, especially the clan's reactions when he gets back five minutes later, they will be priceless. I might have to scan the images in and use them as a desktop. I just can't see Time Dancer done in six issues like I heard the spin offs will be done in, too much happening from what I have found on Ask Greg. Well I guess that is why it is third in line and thanks again.
Some gargoyles will develop stronger relationships with some. With that many parents, siblings, children, etc. running around, it's natural. But neither "shunned, frowned upon, or generally accepted" fits the bill to my mind. Amd citing Hudson/Goliath hardly proves anything. Hudson's pre-massacre relationship with anyone else in Goliath's generation has not been explored. Nor has Goliath's relationship with anyone else from Hudson's generation even been touched on.
In Panther, Goliath is NOT having trouble with Angela's "unusal need for parents". He's concerned about what her specific need to acknowledge their BIOLOGICAL relationship might mean... both in terms of his relationship to the rest of the Avalon Clan and especially HER relationship to her biological mother.
Not all of Brooklyn's TimeDancer adventures are designed to fit into one six episode mini. Just one six-part story. I could tell TimeDancer adventures for forty years. And I hope I get that chance.
Seeing "Reckoning" when Demona was explaining to Angela how she survived over a thousand years made me think, how much does anyone really know about her immortality; for example during "City of Stone" she lied to Xanatos about it, so…
1. How much of Demona's true story (about MacBeth, her immortality, the Weird Sisters, her clan after Wyvern, the Hunter(s), etc.) does Angela really know?
2. How much does Thailog know about Demona's true story?
3. How much does Xanatos know about Demona's true story?
4. How much does Puck/Owen know about Demona's true story?
5. How much do Goliath and the rest of the Manhattan clan know about Demona's true story?
1. Very little.
2. Very little.
3. Very little.
4. Quite a bit.
5. Very little.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In Avalon, Angela, Gabriel, Ophelia, Boudicca and thirty-two other gargoyles and gargoyle beasts hatch out of their eggs.
Mace disappears with a fortune in jewels to become a full-time operative for the Illuminati. He writes a letter to Dominic Dracon, taunting him with false clues about the location of the jewels.
From around the globe, human heads of state and all twelve Gargoyle Clan Leaders come to Queen Florence Island for the hatching. The Space-Spawn attacks, abducting the gargoyle eggs and the human and gargoyle leaders, including U.N. Secretary General Alexander Fox Xanatos IV. And in Antarctica, Earth's Master Matrix Computer is stolen. The Space-Spawn invasion has begun.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
On Avalon, Goliath, Angela and Bronx awaken. Quite aware they won't be getting home any time soon, the travelers elect to spend "a few days" resting and getting to know the Avalon Clan. And in Nigeria, Tea is marked by a were-panther on the day she departs for the city of Abuja.
Greg, I just have a quick question about Demona's attitude towards Angela. Specifically, what makes *Demona* care so much that Angela is her biological daughter? I get why Angela thinks it's a big deal, but Goliath had to "learn" to think in that way, and his attitude is more traditional among the clan. Presumably, Demona should have the same type of attitude. What then makes Demona value Angela as her blood daughter as well as rookery daughter almost immediately in a way that seemed to take Goliath forever?
Demona was ALWAYS a bit atypical of gargoyles, even back in the tenth century. Plus she's spent centuries inundated by humanity's biological offspring imperative.
But really, all that's beside the point. As with Goliath, she might regard all the Avalon Clan as her children. But Angela is the only one she KNOWS about.
Unfortunately, my comic book guy didn't get the TPB in yet, so I'll have to wait until next week to offer my praises. *sigh* So far I've heard good things from everyone else who already has it.
In the meantime, I do have a question about #7 that I meant to ask before. After Brooklyn decides to stay in Manhattan, Goliath says that Hudson can lead the expedition in London. I know Brooklyn has great leadership skills (after all he is the second) and Hudson is a proven leader, but to me that line made it seem like Goliath doesn't think any of the other clan members could be leaders, if given the chance. Surely Broadway and Lexington have SOME leadership capabilities, even if they are not as suited for a leadership role as Brooklyn. And if I had to guess, I would say Angela could DEFINITELY be a good leader, given an opportunity. After all, she's smart, intuitive, and she's got great parentage as well as her experience as second-in-command of Avalon on her side--though her leadership "style" would certainly be different than Goliath's or Brooklyn's.
So basically what I'm wondering is:
1. Does Goliath think any of the other clan members have leadership abilities?
2. Do YOU think any of the other clan members have (or will have) leadership abilities?
3. If any of them do, do you think they'll ever get a chance to show it?
I know it's kind of a silly question since the Manhattan clan already has a second-in-command, but I was just wondering. I informed a lot of my internet friends about the TPB, and many of them are now making plans to buy it :).
1. I'm sure he does, but Goliath has a tendency to rely on Hudson for, I think, understandable reasons. Consider it a failing, if you like. I'm fine with that.
3. Of course.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Lexington begins to repair Jackal's helicopter. Elisa Maza confronts Fox in prison. Fox reveals that David Xanatos created the Pack, and is using Jackal and Hyena to cement Derek Maza's loyalty. Elisa records Fox's conversation. Derek flies Xanatos to his upstate retreat, 'Xanadu'. Again, Jackal and Hyena attack. And again, the Manhattan Clan intervenes, using the repaired helicopter to defeat and capture the twins.
In the morning, Rory Dugan returns home and argues with his father, Mr. Dugan. That evening at sunset, Elisa Maza, Goliath and Angela wake up to find themselves trapped inside Cairn na Chullain by the Banshee, who is convinced they have been sent by Oberon to bring her back to Avalon for the Gathering. Rory, looking for Molly, encounters Bronx instead. When the Banshee realizes that Rory and "the Great Beast" are together, she appears to Rory and lures him away from Bronx.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Derek Maza starts working for David Xanatos. Jackal and Hyena attack them, but the Trio intervenes. Lexington manages to land Jackal's helicopter and hide it.
In Ireland, Rory Dugan and his girlfriend Molly steal a jacket from a local shop and manage to elude the police - just as the four travelers arrive from Avalon. The Banshee quickly captures Elisa Maza, Angela and Goliath.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Elisa Maza gives the Trio a helicopter simulation video game.
Goliath, Angela, Elisa Maza and Bronx rest through the day in London, allowing Goliath's injured wing to heal. That night, they return to Avalon. Griff, Leo and Una become protectors of London again.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Hudson and Demona turn to stone mid-battle. When the sun sets, Goliath awakens healed. Demona is forced to flee.
Elisa Maza and the gargoyles arrive in Paris during the day. Elisa starts to call her parents, but when she spots Macbeth and Demona together, she follows them to Macbeth's Chateau. Then she follows Demona to Notre Dame Cathedral, where she loses her trail. After sundown, she rejoins the gargoyles and fills them in. Goliath attempts to confront Demona at the Cathedral and is surprised to find her allied (and apparently in love) with Thailog. Angela overhears their confrontation and realizes that Demona is her biological mother. Goliath and his friends depart. Demona informs Thailog that she has successfully set up their new international corporation: Nightstone Unlimited, owned and operated by Dominique Destine and "Alexander" Thailog.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Angela, Bronx, Elisa Maza and Goliath sink the mini-sub, and return to Avalon.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Edger Blosa dies in Prague.
Angela is imprisoned alongside Nessie, a Loch Ness Monster. That day Elisa Maza spots members of David Xanatos' Security Team resupplying in town. She follows them to Anton Sevarius' secret submarine dock. After nightfall, she returns with Goliath and Bronx, but all three are captured. Sevarius, who has informed Angela that she is Goliath's daughter, takes her along as he attempts to use Nessie to capture her mate Big Daddy in the Loch. Goliath and the others escape, and use a mini-submarine to foil Sevarius' plans. The monster-sub sinks along with every member of the Security Team, except their leader Bruno. The Loch Ness Monsters are reunited and set free.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Though the travelers have spent only the hours between sunrise and sunset on Avalon, days have passed in the real world. Goliath, Elisa Maza, Angela and Bronx depart Avalon and find themselves on Loch Ness, back in Scotland. Elisa attempts to leave a message with Matt Bluestone's answering machine, but his message tape is full and the message is not recorded. Later, their skiff is capsized by a Loch Ness Monster. In the confusion, Angela is captured by a monster-shaped submarine and brought back to Dr. Anton Sevarius, who runs DNA tests on her that prove she is the biological daughter of Goliath.
Okay, let's try this.
What did Angela whisper to Broadway just before he decided no to go to England with Macbeth?
(You'd better tell us now, before the mystery gets all blown out of proportion.)
I really didn't think this was much of a mystery. I don't know her exact words, but it was something like: "If Goliath isn't well, we should really back Brooklyn up here, so he isn't on his own if there's trouble."
It was all very well-meaning. With the density (that I have often observed) common in the newly coupled, they don't realize the effect they're having on poor Brook. Too busy staring into each others' eyes, I guess.
Of course, Angela knows or knew that Brook had a crush on her, but she also ONLY viewed it as a crush and didn't take it too seriously, and again -- without thinking too deeply about it, assuming she's thinking at all about it -- must assume he's over it by now. Lex seems to be.
B.W. perhaps should be more sensitive, but he's equally blind to it. And to be fair, Brooklyn's keeping his angst to himself. What's obvious to the reader, isn't always obvious to the characters. Look at what tips you off, and look and see if the other characters are privy to that knowledge.
It's only in this scene that Goliath finally figures it out.
Having typed the above, I'm half-inclined to delete it all. To some extent, it feels like I'm cheating as a storyteller by explaining this. Either it's working or it's not. So if I DON'T delete, it's totally due to how you phrased the question, Phil. This isn't a mystery worth years of speculation -- assuming even the Titania/Fox thing was worth that. So there you have it. Unless I delete. In which case, you don't.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth attacks the gargoyles at the Eyrie Building, capturing Lexington, Brooklyn and Bronx. Elisa Maza, who is largely recovered but still on crutches from being shot, again tries to convince Goliath to leave the castle. He won't listen, but after Goliath departs to find the others, she manages to convince Hudson and Broadway that the castle is no longer their home. They take the Grimorum Arcanorum from Owen Burnett and leave the castle. Meanwhile, Bronx escapes and leads Goliath back to Macbeth's mansion. Macbeth and Goliath battle, Macbeth revealing that his true target is Demona. Macbeth's mansion is damaged by fire, and the gargoyles escape.
The travelers depart Avalon again, arriving on Queen Florence Island off the west coast of Canada, where they immediately encounter Grandmother in the form of a Sea Monster. Elisa is separated from the others and washes ashore, where she is found by Grandmother and Natsilane, the chief of the local Haida band. Elisa is alive, but gravely ill. Grandmother helps heal her. That night, Goliath, Angela and Bronx encounter Raven posing as a gargoyle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Captain has a change of heart and rescues Goliath. The Captain's spirit ascends. Hakon is trapped alone in the caverns below Wyvern. The quartet of travelers return to Avalon so that they may attempt to find Manhattan again. Meanwhile in Paris, Demona encounters Thailog. They quickly form an alliance.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
King Arthur leaves Avalon on his own to explore the world. The Weird Sisters are forced to release Macbeth and Demona from their thrall. Goliath pushes his unconscious foes off of Avalon. They land in Paris, where Demona awakens first, sees Macbeth unconscious and flees. Minutes later, a confused Macbeth regains consciousness. Realizing where he is, he retreats to his Chateau on Paris' famous Left Bank. (Neither retain any memories of events that have taken place between November 12th, 1995 and January 1st, 1996.) Meanwhile, Goliath takes possession of the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate, then releases the Weird Sisters, who vanish. Goliath leaves Tom, Katharine and Gabriel in charge of Avalon and the Avalon Clan. Only Angela chooses to join Goliath, Elisa and Bronx aboard the skiff. They begin their "World Tour" while attempting to find their way home from Avalon. Avalon sends Goliath, Elisa, Angela and Bronx to Wyvern Hill in Scotland. There the ghosts of Hakon and the Captain attempt to drive Goliath insane and steal his life force.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Macbeth and Demona attack the humans and gargoyles at Oberon's Palace, while the Magus faces off against the Weird Sisters at the Hollow Hill, and Goliath and Angela seek out the Archmage at the Grotto. At first things look grim, but Princess Katharine defeats Demona with help from Ophelia, the Guardian, Elisa Maza, Gabriel, Bronx and Boudicca. King Arthur Pendragon also defeats Macbeth, and the Magus captures the Weird Sisters, though it fatally weakens him. Goliath battles the Archmage, who uses the Phoenix Gate to bounce them around through Time and Space. But the Archmage cannot shake Goliath, and returns to the present, where Goliath succeeds in removing the Eye of Odin from his brow. Without the Eye, the energy from the Grimorum Arcanorum burns the Archmage to death from the inside out. The battle is over.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Goliath, Angela and Gabriel attempt to steal the Eye of Odin and the Phoenix Gate from the Archmage. They fail. Meanwhile, Elisa Maza and the Magus succeed in waking the Sleeping King, Arthur Pendragon.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Westminster Abbey, built by Edward the Confessor, is consecrated.
David Xanatos, who is scheduled to be released from jail in one week, is contacted by Macbeth, who offers to rid the castle of gargoyles.
Goliath and Tom the Guardian meet at Belvedere Castle in Central Park. Together with Elisa Maza and Bronx, they depart for Avalon, where they are introduced to the grown hatchlings of the Wyvern Clan, including Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca, and reunited with the Magus and Princess Katharine. Meanwhile, a recently transformed Archmage travels back in time...
Okay, you've said that Angela and Broadway will raise their children the Gargoyle way. But all three are named after the Arthurian tales, not assuming that they named them themselves, but wouldn't that be a bit coincidental? I mean I could understand if all the clutch was named after the Arthurian but there are only so many names in the Arthurian tales, and three full clutches at that. With that said the three are named after the main characters (Merlin aside). So how can you explain that?
Also with Angela's parental issues. Being raised with Tom as her adopted father and Kathrine as her adpotive mother she would seem to prefer raising her children as she was raised. I do realize that part of it would be because Kathrine, Tom, and Magus were the only adults she could identify with but when she found out Goliath was her father she was extremely insistant that she be recognized by him. Angela also wanted a relationship with Demona despite her past. Not only that she wanted to help Demona specifically because she was her mother. So how would she cope with not recognizing her children or her children not recognizing her? Seems to me that she would want the close relationship with her kids as she had (or attempted to have) with her parents.
There are HUNDREDS of names in Arthurian legend. HUNDREDS. And I COULD explain it a hundred ways. But I choose not to at this time.
What makes you think that Angela won't have a close relationship with her kids, however they're raised?
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just after midnight, Angela and the Trio head out into the city. They're glad that both Goliath and Maggie are recovering.
Just before dawn, Shari tells Thailog the story of Goliath, Angela, Elisa and Bronx's journey from Avalon to the Himalayas in Tibet - where they encountered Coldstone - and of their subsequent arrival in Shambahla.
At dawn, Coldsteel joins Xanatos at Scarab Corp.
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This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Using the Phoenix Gate, Goliath, Demona, David Xanatos, Petros Xanatos and Fox come back in time from the year 1995. Demona immediately uses the Gate to disappear again. Xanatos saves the life of Princess Elena of Normandy. He is rewarded with a coin, which he gives to the Norman Ambassador, a fellow member of the Illuminati Society. The 1995 Goliath encounters the 975 Hudson. The 975 Demona is studying under the Archmage as his apprentice. He instructs her to steal the Phoenix Gate from Princess Elena, which she does. But then she is confronted by the 1995 Demona and Goliath. After a brief trip for all three to 994, the 975 Demona returns them to her time and winds up on the outs with the Archmage. She breaks the Phoenix Gate in two and gives half of it to the 975 Goliath at the wedding of Malcolm and Elena. Meanwhile, all the 1995 participants return to their own time.
David Xanatos receives an anonymous gift of a medieval coin worth $20 grand. It is the start of his fortune, and was actually sent to David by his 1995 counterpart, via the Illuminati Society from the year 975.
A fully-grown Thailog is released from his maturation chamber and takes up residence at the Eyrie Building. Xanatos receives a letter from the Illuminati Society. It is from himself, sent in the year 975. It explains that he sent himself the medieval coin that was the basis of all his wealth. The letter also explains how he set this all up by turning his wedding to Fox into a time travel excursion to 975.
Xanatos gets a new assignment from Quincy and the Illuminati. Hudson confirms he is a gargoyle to Robbins. Thailog and the clones fight the Manhattan Clan. During the battle, Thailog gets DNA samples from Goliath, Angela, Broadway, Lexington, Elisa, Brooklyn, Hudson and Bronx. Delilah, Malibu, Burbank and Hollywood reject Thailog, but Brentwood chooses to depart with him. Thailog gives the DNA to Sevarius and gains a new personal assistant, Shari. Doctor Sato treats Goliath. Goliath and Elisa declare their love for each other.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
In part because both he and Elisa want to conceal the gargoyles' existence, Xanatos and the D.A.'s office agree to a plea bargain. He pleads guilty to the sole count of Receiving Stolen Property. He will be sentenced to six months in county jail including time served, with every hope that the sentence will be reduced to three months for good behavior.
Xanatos confronts Fox and attempts to get the Eye back from her. She transforms in front of him and escapes. Xanatos intentionally involves Goliath and Elisa in an attempt to manipulate them into helping Fox and retrieving the Eye. Goliath quickly catches on and initially refuses to help. Later that night, the Trio, Goliath, Elisa, Vinnie, Brendan and Margot all attend a Greenwich Village Halloween block party. When the Werefox attacks, Goliath and Elisa agree to help Xanatos save Fox. Together, they manage to remove the Eye from the creature, which reverts to Fox. Goliath takes possession of the Eye.
Matt Bluestone convenes a meeting of the Gargoyle Taskforce (including himself, Elisa, Officers Morgan & Travanti, Detectives Harris & Chung, Margot Yale and Martin Hacker). Hacker has Illuminati meetings with Matt, Xanatos and Castaway. Morgan asks Elisa on a date. After turning him down and spending time with Jason in the hospital prison ward, she goes to the Eyrie. The gargoyles awaken at sunset. Fox has Halloween costumes for Brooklyn, Lexington, Broadway and Angela in anticipation of the Masque that Xanatos is throwing later that night. Elisa breaks up with Goliath. Demona recovers the Atlantean crystal that was at the heart of the Praying Gargoyle. In, the Labyrinth, Al is showing Shari around. Goliath and Brooklyn arrive. Brooklyn wants to ask Delilah to the party, but Goliath does instead. Goliath, Brooklyn and Delilah depart. Thailog attacks. Terry Chung, Billy Greene, Susan Greene and Sarah Browne trick-or-treat at Jeffrey Robbins' home, where Hudson and Bronx are visiting. Following Illuminati orders, Xanatos takes Fox and Alexander to a party at the White House. They chat with Ambassador Chung, and David meets Illuminatus Quincy Hemings. Meanwhile, Xanatos' Masque goes on without him at the Eyrie. Attendees include Judge Roebling, Doctor Sato, Brendan, Margot, Lexington, Brooklyn, Angela and Broadway. Elisa and Morgan arrive together, as do Goliath and Delilah. Thailog, having taken the male clones from the Labyrinth, arrives to collect Delilah and stabs Goliath.
Xanatos' probation expires.
You said in your FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) archives that Broadway and Angela would probably raise their children the gargoyle way, "children of the clan, not individuals," by not favoring biological children over the rest of the clan's children, but does that mean they won't identify their own biological children. I believe that if they didn't recognize their biological children, they wouldn't have been so particular about the naming of their own children (Artus, Gwenyvere, and Lancelot) after Arthurian characters in reference to Broadway and Angela's connections to Arthur, Broadway being inspired to read from hearing about the Scrolls of Merlin and Angela living on Avalon where Arthur slept. So, do Angela and Broadway recognize their biological children but attempt to parent all clan children instead of favoring their biological children, or is the naming of all their children after Arthurian characters coincidence?
You're assuming that Broadway and Angela named them. Facts not in evidence.
I know you don't want to go into the specifics of Samson's parentage because it doesn't matter in Gargoyle culture but from what I've read on GargWiki <http://gargoyles.dracandros.com/> about Canon-in-training characters, you've hinted that "Artus will most closely resemble Broadway and Hudson," "Gwenyvere may most closely resemble Angela and Demona," and Lancelot "may resemble Goliath to some degree." (Did they misquote you?) You've said that Samson would also resemble Goliath. Sense Lancelot, among Broadway and Angela's children, resembles Goliath the most, wouldn't it be logical for fans to assume that Samson is the son of Lancelot, who he probably resembles as they both resemble Goliath? You don't have to say if I'm right or not, just tell me whether or not my logic is flawed in some way.
Well, it's not that your logic isn't... logical, but of course it is flawed. I'm sure people in most families can point to someone who doesn't particularly look like his or her parents, but could be a dead ringer for old photos of a grandparent.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Tony Dracon, Dominic Dracon and their men are taken into custody. Martin Hacker calls to see if Matt's all right. Matt asks Hacker to find the whereabouts of Mace Malone's stepson Jack Dane. Later, Elisa helps Broadway order a new Detective costume for Halloween to replace the one destroyed during the Silver Falcon case.
At midnight, Travis Marshall begins to broadcast Nightwatch on WVRN in New York - in part as a response to the revelation that gargoyles truly exist. Vinnie Grigori and Gargoyles Taskforce leader Matt Bluestone, among others, are interviewed. Meanwhile, the gargoyles try to readjust to life back at the castle with Xanatos. Goliath departs to see Elisa. He turns to stone outside her apartment. John Castaway recruits Vinnie and other citizens into the Quarrymen. That morning, Taro, having seen Vinnie on Nightwatch, offers him a security job in Japan. Just before sunrise, Banquo and Fleance spot Goliath on Elisa's balcony. They contact Castaway who convinces Vinnie to join the hunt. Elisa manages to protect Goliath until sundown when he awakens. Goliath and Elisa flee. The Quarrymen give chase and injure Goliath's wing. Goliath and Elisa are forced to take to the rooftops of Manhattan in order to make their way back to the relative safety of the castle. At the castle, Hudson watches a special early edition of Nightwatch, with Travis Marshall moderating a debate between anti-gargoyle Assistant District Attorney Margot Yale and pro-gargoyle medieval scholar Lennox Macduff (actually Macbeth). Lex bonds with Alexander and declares a truce between himself and Fox. Mr. Duval of the Illuminati Society contacts Xanatos. David declines to take Duval's call. Angela and Broadway share they're first kiss, and Brooklyn realizes that he has no chance with Angela now. The Quarrymen pursue Elisa and Goliath to the ruined Clock Tower. Elisa and Goliath take most of the Quarrymen out one by one. But Castaway nearly succeeds in killing them both. At a crucial moment, Vinnie switches sides, giving Goliath time to recover. Castaway is forced to flee. Goliath and Elisa return to the castle.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Reconstruction of the Eyrie Building's Castle is completed.
The Trio and Bronx fail to stop Demona from stealing the D/I-7. Worse yet, Goliath, Hudson and Angela are attacked by the Hunters. Angela is badly wounded. The gargoyles reconvene at the Clock Tower but are unsure if Angela will survive until dawn. Goliath vows vengeance on the Hunters. Elisa arrives just before sunrise and performs CPR, saving Angela's life. Later that morning, Dominique Destine introduces Robyn to Dr. Sevarius, who's created a carrier virus called CV-1000. Dominique places a sample of the virus in a vault beside the D/I-7, the Medici Tablet and the Praying Gargoyle. That night, Angela wakes from her stone sleep, healed. The gargoyles leave the Clock Tower to search for the Hunters. Elisa, having missed the Gargoyles, invites Jason to her loft for dinner. From her balcony, Goliath watches Jason and Elisa kiss. Angered, he, Brooklyn and Lex board the Hunter's craft alone. Once inside, they find Demona is also after the Hunters. All four gargoyles are captured, but allowed to escape.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
When the real Hudson and Goliath return to the Clock Tower, they find Coldstone and are soon convinced that Othello controls his body. They follow Coldstone back to the Eyrie. Minutes later, Iago, Othello and Desdemona return to the Tower in their appropriated bodies. They free Lex, who surmises that Iago must now be in control of Coldstone and has tricked Goliath and Hudson into declaring war on Xanatos. The real Iago, still posing as Brooklyn, suggests that they destroy the Coldstone body once and for all. Othello agrees, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that this action would strand the various souls in their new bodies. At the Eyrie, Puck uses the Coldsteel and Coldfire robots to capture Goliath and Hudson. The others arrive soon after. Iago knocks Lex unconscious to take him out of the action, but when Lex recovers, the spirit of Alexander enters his body. Puck, meanwhile, uses Coldstone's body to take down Angela/Desdemona and Broadway/Othello. Brooklyn/Iago tries to make off with Desdemona, but Puck uses Coldsteel and Coldfire to stop him. After some further conflict, Lex/Alex transfers Iago, Othello and Desdemona into Coldsteel, Coldstone and Coldfire, respectively. Coldsteel flees, and Coldstone and Coldfire take off in pursuit. Puck returns Alexander to the nursery and transforms back into Owen just before Xanatos and Fox return.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Xanatos and Owen make a third attempt to transfer the souls of Iago and Desdemona into independent robot bodies. It too fails. Later, David and Fox go out for the evening, leaving Alexander in Owen's care. Owen decides to teach Alexander his first lesson in magic. Owen transforms into Puck, then glamours himself and Alexander into dead-ringers for Goliath and Hudson. They "liberate" Coldstone from the Eyrie and take him to the Clock Tower. There, "Goliath" convinces Angela and Broadway to allow the souls of Desdemona and Othello to take up temporary residence inside their bodies. Coldstone is emptied of all three souls, and the Iago soul secretly enters Brooklyn. "Goliath" and "Hudson" then depart, leaving "Brooklyn" in charge. Iago convinces Othello and Desdemona to try out their new bodies. He then follows them to the Statue of Liberty, where he hints that they might keep Broadway and Angela's bodies for themselves. Meanwhile, Puck and Alexander enter Coldstone's body; they grab Lex, tie him up in a corner and gag him.
Okey dokey! In my previous post, I had far too many topics in one question, so I am hoping that I have made this particular question inclusive enough to make the cut.
Anyway, hi Greg! I have some questions about hair in Gargoyles (insignificant topic, I know). Why do the artists keep making Angela's hair brown? In the show it looks black. Brooklyn has white hair in youth, whereas in "City of Stone", Demona's red hair turned white with age...so...was Hudson's hair always white or did it change with age? If it changed, what color was it; I would like to know this for possible fan art. Will any of Demona's descendants inherit her spiky red hair? I love the color and the spiky-ness of it and I'm really hoping a major future character gets it (note I am not asking you to specify WHO gets it, just whether *someone* will). And finally, will Brooklyn's children have black hair? It seems like most of the Asian gargoyles have black hair but I'm really hoping Brooklyn's children don't, as it seems kinda over-done in the Gargoyles universe.
Angela and Goliath both have dark brown hair. Sometimes colorists emphasize the brown... sometimes the dark, which makes it look black. Personally, I prefer when it's nearly black myself, but it is brown.
Brooklyn's hair is white.
Whether Hudson had white hair as a youth is something that we'll have to wait and see about.
And I'm hardly likely to reveal or even commit to hair colors for Demona's descendents or Brooklyn's children. Why tie the hands of my colorists down the road?
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
When Demona refuses to allow Thailog to kill Angela, he reveals an additional clone: Delilah, created from a combination of Demona and Elisa's DNA. Demona frees Talon, Goliath and the clan. They manage to recapture Fang and take down the clones. But while fighting each other, Demona and Thailog seemingly perish in a fire. Talon offers to take the other clones back to the Labyrinth where he promises to teach them to think for themselves.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Xanatos acquires the Cauldron of Life and prepares to test it by ordering the construction of a pair of Macbeth robots and a statue of Hudson. He also begins looking for a sword that will match Hudson's to be used with the statue.
Relieving Talon, Goliath takes his shift guarding the Labyrinth prisoners. Thailog busts Demona and Fang out. Talon and Goliath pursue them to Coney Island. Goliath departs and quickly returns with Angela, the Trio and Hudson. All are captured by Fang, Demona, Thailog and his clones: Hollywood, Brentwood, Malibu and Burbank (made from the DNA of Broadway, Lexington, Brooklyn and Hudson, respectively).
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Scrolls of Merlin are being transported aboard the H.M.S. Churchill en route to the Metropolitan Museum in New York when they are stolen by Macbeth's minions. The gargoyles intercede. Hudson recovers one of the Scrolls but falls into the ocean. Broadway tries to get the other scroll, but Macbeth captures him.
Autumnal Equinox: Artus conceived.
My question did Katherine ever find out that Magus loved her? And I remember him saying that Katherine and Tom raised the hatchlings like a family. Well didn't he have a place with them, too? And also do you think things might have been different if Magus ever told Katherine his feelings to her?
I'll leave it to everyone to decide for themselves what Katherine knew and/or when.
Yes, he was like another father to Angela and the rest.
As I've said many times, I'm not too interested in hypotheticals.
i thought angela had a thing for brooklyn why does she end up with broadway
<<<We were never hinting toward Brooklyn/Angela. Quite the reverse. Gary Sperling and I made this decision together when he was working on Turf. But it just felt right. Broadway seemed the guy who was most attentive to Angela as an individual. The person most in touch with his so-called feminine side. Brooklyn was just after any chick with wings, frankly. And I think Lex pursued her because his brothers were and it seemed like the right thing to do. Only Broadway was interested in who Angela was. In my mind, he's clearly the most mature when it comes to this stuff. Brooklyn's a leader. And I love the guy, but he confuses a crush with deep abiding love. He needs a little more emotional maturity before he's ready for this "Gargoyles mate for life" thing.>>>
Or if you prefer:
<<<Angela and Brooklyn were NEVER an "item". NEVER. Brooklyn certainly had a crush on her. But so did Lex and Broadway. And Broadway's feelings for her were deeper almost from the night they met. And if you caught the look they exchanged at the end of "Possessions" you would have seen that the only "item" in works was Angela & Broadway.>>>
Would Demona kill Angela if it meant the achievement of her goal, or would that be too much even for her?
What do you think?
This is more a ramble reply to Alex Garg's post, but I definitely think this is a fascinating subject, and could make a great Ask Greg discussion.
Honestly, at this point, I don't think anyone in the Manhattan Clan cares much about any of the clones. Any of them. What was the first thing said when Thailog appeared to perish and the clones had no where to go? "We can't just bring them back to the Clock Tower can we? I mean, they kind of give me the creeps."
Right there, the Manhattan Clan wanted nothing to do with them. Wanted to pretend they didn't exist. Let Talon take them to live in a sewer. Out of sight, out of mind. Not that the reaction is not understandable, it is. I think we'd all be uncomfortable around clones of ourselves made against our will and knowledge. It's a fundamental violation of our individuality.
Did any of the Manhattan Clan go down to see them between "The Reckoning" and "Invitation Only"? I'd be very surprised if the answer is yes. The one time they do go down, they want something. Goliath is following Elisa's request to attempt to date Delilah. Brooklyn... just wants to make a play for the only available female he's aware of. They were down there both for selfish reasons.
So, yeah, all of their talk about free will probably was less for the clones' sake, and more towards the Manhattan Clan's hatred for Thailog. They hate Thailog, so naturally they don't want the clones to be helping him. At this point, do they have any other reason to care?
Lexington's only real concern when Brentwood chooses Thailog is how it makes him [Lexington] look. Not concern for Brentwood's safety, or eventually having to face him as an enemy. Lex thinks it makes *him* look bad.
I know this is a pretty serious indictment of the Manhattan Clan. I love them, they are heroes, there's a lot to admire in each and every one of them. But, they're not saints. Which is fine, they're more interesting this way... if I wanted a group of pure goodie goods, I'd read a Silver Age Justice League of America comic book.
I don't disagree with any of the above, but I would temper it.
Again, I think Angela has an INTEREST in individuality and wouldn't want Delilah blindly following ANYONE. Delilah may have reacted to Angela as if Angela was giving her another order, but I don't think it's hard to see that that was clearly NOT Angela's intent. And if your looking for proof, just check out Angela's relationship with Goliath. She respects him as a leader. As a hero. A legend. She loves him as a father. But check out the World Tour, particularly Sanctuary. She's hardly following G. blindly.
And Goliath... in his slow, deliberate, bleeding-to-death way... had clearly given all this some thought too. He told Thailog that Delilah would not CHOOSE him (i.e. Thailog). He may seem confident of this (perhaps even over-confident), but there's nothing to indicate that Goliath plans to decide FOR her. And he doesn't decide for Brentwood either. There's preference and action. Two different things.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Sevarius completes his involvement with Thailog's project and is paid off. Thailog begins programming his new clones. Meanwhile, Angela and Demona are still debating the latter's behavior. Claw arrives to take over guarding the prisoners for the day shift. Angela elects to sleep as stone in front of her mother's cell.
How come Angela was the only Avalon Garg to want to leave Avalon, don't any of the otheres have that kind of Wanderlust?
Guess not. Maybe she takes after her mum.
I was just wondering why Thailog didn't clone Angela, i know Demona didn't release the bug when she watching her but even still if he could get Eliza's dna without her knowing he could do the same for Angela. If he was expecting Demona to betray him anyway even with Delilah he was at a one "man" disadvantage from a tactical point of view it just would have made more sense for Thailog to clone Angela too.
When would he have gotten Angela's DNA?
You can pinpoint EXACTLY when he got Elisa's, BTW, if you watch the episode carefully.
Of course, NOW he has everyone's DNA, everyone in the Manhattan Clan, that is.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Brod attacks Dracon in prison. But, the gargoyles help Elisa take down Brod, Dracon and most of their men. The gargoyles return to the Clock Tower, by which time Goliath, Hudson and Bronx have also returned. The Trio apologizes to Angela for their behavior. She forgives each of them with a peck on the cheek - just before the sun rises. Elisa's operation is a phenomenal success. Jack Dane, Pal Joey, Glasses and many other Brod and Dracon operatives are incarcerated. Dracon and Brod are even forced to share a cell.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Hudson destroys the battle-axe that tied Hakon to the Earth plane, permanently banishing the Viking's spirit. Goliath then defeats Wolf but gets hit in the face by a banana cream pie fired by Vinnie. Goliath and Hudson don't make it back to the Clock Tower before sunrise. Neither does Bronx, who's having his own adventure. Meanwhile, Brod attacks Glasses' chop shop with the help of Jack Dane and "Salli". But the raid is aborted when the police show up. Salli is knocked unconscious and witnesses very little that Elisa could testify to later. Angela and the Trio stumble into the situation, but the boys are too busy fighting over Angela to be of any help. After sunrise, Glasses visits Dracon in prison. Dracon orders Glasses to retaliate against Brod. Just before sundown, Matt brings Brod and Salli in for questioning. Salli slips away to the Clock Tower, where she reveals herself as Elisa and enlists the gargoyles' help. Salli then confers with Maria Chavez, and they agree to keep the undercover operation running for a while longer, despite the chop shop debacle. While Brod is at the police station, Dracon's men hit Brod operations all over town and even firebomb his favorite restaurant. Glasses also puts word out on the street that Dracon has a trainload of weapons coming in. Brod decides to steal the weapons. He attacks the train with Salli, but is ambushed by Glasses, Pal Joey and the rest of Dracon's men. The gargoyles intervene, but the Trio's competitiveness nearly gets Lex and Angela killed. Brod escapes again.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The Manhattan Clan imprisons Demona in the Labyrinth and agrees to help Talon and the Mutates guard her and Fang. Angela takes the first watch. Elisa is bitten by a robotic mosquito that samples her DNA. Demona regains consciousness in her cell. Angela introduces herself.
thanks again for taking the time to communicate with the community. Today, I have a few questions about the gargoyle designs:
1) On the show, the further the show progresses, the more varied the gargoyle design becomes. Originally, the gargoyles have a rather human look, but with time some of them cross the border to animalic. I'm thinking about the London Gargoyles in particular. How did these character design decisions, for example for lion-, eagle- and horse-heads and the bird wings, come about? Did you, the production crew, argue about such designs among each other? Or was it something that everybody accepted immediately?
2) I believe I remember a piece of promotional art that features Bronx with very small wings on the back. Why was it decided to remove those wings?
3) For the show, when you came upon a story that involved new gargoyles, what was the design process? Was there a lot of moving-sketches-back-and-forth, approving and rejecting designs, or were you usually contend with the first design you got?
4) Unfortunately, so far I have only seen the covers of the comic. But I wonder: why has the change to a bare-midriff look for Angela been made? Was it just a hunch of the artists, or were there more serious thoughts behind this?
Thanks in advance for answering and all your work.
1. I don't remember any fighting over the London designs. MANY, many "gargoyles" in England are based on heraldic forms, and that's what we followed. It all fits into our backward extrapolation for why humans started sculpting faux gargoyles to safeguard their buildings.
2. Bronx never had wings. Bronx did have ears that acted as tiny wings and allowed him to hover a few inches off the ground. It was a comedy-development holdover, and Frank Paur jetissoned it when he came aboard.
3. Some of each.
4. It was a discussion between Greg Guler and myself to consciously make her look a bit sexier and more grown up, as she embarked on a more adult relationship with Broadway. And if her new look called up memories of Demona... well, so much the better.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The gargoyles, Mazas and were-panthers converges on the ancient ruins of Kara Digi. There they discover that Fara was largely manipulated by the Spider-Trickster Anansi. All concerned join forces to defeat Anansi. Fara and Tea remain were-panthers but are reconciled and vow to protect the jungle. Just before sunrise, Goliath finally acknowledges Angela as his daughter. After sunrise, Elisa tells her mother everything about her life with the gargoyles. At sunset, Elisa and the gargoyles once more return to Avalon. Diane Maza phones New York, informing her husband of Elisa's situation. Peter Maza contacts Matt Bluestone and Talon. Matt contacts Brooklyn, Lex, Broadway and Hudson.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Demona and Thailog return to Manhattan and hire Dr. Sevarius away from Gen-U-Tech. Sevarius reveals that the female gargoyle that Demona saw in Paris is the biological child of her and Goliath.
I know you've said that Demona cast a spell on the Manhattan Clan right before they woke up in the 20th century that allowed them to understand modern English. My question is, how does Angela understand modern English? I would assume that she grew up speaking Old English, as she was raised by Tom/the Magus/Katharine.
Avalon compensates when it sends people to where they need to be...
Oh, and by the way, Demona casting a spell is just a possible answer to the original modern English question. Not a definitive answer.
Let me start with I love the newest comic! I'm very excited to see what happens from here on out!
I was noticing something that you had posted on the wall. You said that Demona was Hudson's daughter, I might have miss read that but considering I did not. Wouldn't that make Broadway his sister, then considering that making Angela his niece?
I was also thinking would Sevarius know about the connection between Hudson, Demona, and Broadway?
Demona is Hudson's ROOKERY DAUGHTER. They're not biologically related (or if they are it's pretty distant). Angela is Hudson's rookery granddaughter. No biological relationship there either. Broadway is both Hudson's rookery son AND his biological son, although the latter relationship is of no import to anyone except gargoyle fans. Therefore no biological relationship between Broadway and Angela.
Okay, I read Issue #3 the day it came out, and my only complaint is that it's too short! ;) I do have a few questions about Angela, and in part, Broadway.
1. Angela is sort of like a good version of Demona, the two of them occupying opposite ends of the Good/Evil spectrum. She's somewhat naive, where her mother is wise and jaded: she's a sweetheart who can sometimes have a temper, but Demona's bitter and angry. I have noticed that there are some subtle similarities between the two of them, though. In the comic, Angela seems annoyed and insulted that they have to disguise themselves, and like Demona she seems to have a lot of pride in the fact that she's a gargoyle. Demona's younger self wasn't unkind, but she resented the fact that her kind didn't fit in with humans and yet they had to protect them anyway. Angela grew up loving humans, but had a rude awakening when she entered the 'real' world, and was treated like just another monster. What I'm getting at is, what are the odds of Angela becoming bitter towards humans in the future, even if it's the distant future?
2. Did you notice that Angela's lips are red on the cover of the comic, like in the cartoon, but inside they're purple? I was wondering if you knew whether or not this was intentionally done. Personally, I think she looks better with red lips, like Demona, and if they were going by skin color Demona's lips would be blue, hehe...Sorry if it sounds like I'm nitpicking, because I'm not, I was just intrigued.
3. I'll try to keep this as polite as possible, I know this is a touchy subject for here. As of Issue #3, has Angela been intimate with Broadway, other than kissing? I'm not asking for specifics, just a yes or no. :) I just noticed that they were holding hands a lot, and basically seemed to be joined at the hip!
Really enjoying it so far!
1. I'll let you set the odds.
2. I didn't notice. Being color deficient sucks, I guess.
3. I don't think they've had sex yet, if that's what you're asking.
This is more of an observation than a question.
In the episode Upgrade, Goliath had to choose a second in command. He stated that he didn't want to choose recklessly because it might put a rift between the trio. And he said that "I see now that nothing can come between you three." I guess he didn't count on the fact that Angela is alive and that she might someday fall in love with one of the trio and that might throw a rift between them.
I'm not sure Angela does throw a RIFT into things. They argue when she first shows up, and inevitably they are growing up and won't be joined at the hip anymore, but they'll always be the best of friends.
"The Reckoning" is one of my favorite episodes, especially because of all the great stuff involving Demona and her very complex character. I especially love the scene where she frees the clan, imploring Goliath to "save their daughter!" There's one thing that has been confusing me that I was hoping you could clear up. When Demona is trying to stop Thailog from shooting Angela, he said that she knew she was her daughter before they staged her capture, and Angela is outraged because Demona knew the whole time. However, I missed how this could have happened. I have a much easier time believing that Demona was genuinely confused in Paris, and the next time she saw her was in "The Reckoning." It seems to me to be more logical that given the order of events, Demona did indeed find out about Angela being her daughter when she told her in the jail, as opposed to finding out beforehand. How did Demona know before they staged her capture?
Sevarius knew, remember (from "Monsters")? And Demona, Thailog and Sevarius planned "Reckoning"'s whole cloning thing together. SO... sometime between "Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning", Sevarius filled her in.
I've been a fan of Gargoyles since it was first broadcast. And I still enjoy watching it even now years later, and look forward to the long awaited DVD release. The show is very original, and I think it had a lot of life left in it still when it ended. Which brings on my question Ive thought about off and on while watching the show. Do you ever think the relationship between Demona and Angela was given absolution? There was no real closure in The Reckoning, and the episode Generations strung along without adding any development.
I don't count "Generations" myself one way or another. And I'm not sure exactly what you mean in this context by "absolution," but there was no intent for true closure in "The Reckoning". None. I don't see "closure" happening anytime soon, but keep an eye out in the comic book for the relationship to progress.
Who does Angela like more.
There's a smart-ass response in there somewhere. But I'm too lazy to come up with it right now. So I'll just say Broadway and leave it at that.
I don't know if this question has been dealt with, but I looked through the archives and didn't see it so I thought I'd give it a whirl.
If one of the other Avalon gargoyles had gone with Goliath and Elisa instead of Angela, would Demona have felt the same way towards that gargoyle as she does towards Angela? I mean, Demona was raised traditionally, so she sould see all of the Eggs as her children, but does the biological aspect factor into why Demona's so fixated on Angela? Would she have reacted in just the same way to Ophelia, Gabriel or any of the others?
It's a fair question. And I think she would have reacted similarly with any of the "eggs"... but I do think that three factors gave Angela a little extra oomph for Demona.
1) Angela treated Demona as her mother. "I'm told there's a resemblance." The others might not have, without the bio-connection, given Demona's history.
2) Demona has spent a 1000 years around humans. Despite herself, some of it may have rubbed off.
3) Demona was not around to comunally raise the eggs. So she has less emotional connection to the other gargs then she normally would have had.
Ultimately, however, I think it still comes down to the same kind of thing that Diane Maza pointed out to Goliath in "Mark of the Panther": "[Angela] is the only one of your children with you."
Normally, I don't like hypotheticals, but this was a pretty good question.
I have a question about Angela:) How old was she when she first appeared on the Avalon series? Just curious:) I appreciate you taking time to look over this and answer:) Thanks:)
I assume you mean "How old was she when she first appeared in 'Avalon, Part One'?"
Angela was biologically 19-years-old.
Although, in fact she was chronologically 917.
Hi Greg. You said in the archives that as of the time you left the show (The Journey, i'm assuming) that Demona didn't know about Broadway and Angela's relationship, and the only other person who knew was Brooklyn.
1. How did Brook find out? Did Broadway and Angela tell him? Was the scene in "The Journey" how Brook find out?
2. When would the rest of the Clan find out about them? Would they try to keep it quiet for awhile or would they even care who knew?
3. Had Angela had any romantic connections with any of her rookery brothers on Avalon?
1. Yes, the scene in "The Journey".
2. I don't think it was a major secret. But honestly, I haven't given much thought to the order of how and when everyone learned about it.
3. No. Nothing even vaguely serious.
Since you have updated your timeline since you last answered the question about Angela and Ophelia possibly being "in heat" in 2008 (02-02-00), I thought I would ask that question again since that part of the timeline might have changed.
1)When is the earliest time that Angela and Ophelia could have laid an egg?
2)Will Angela, Ophelia, or both of them be capable of laying an egg in 2008?
The earliest for either is 2008 and, yes, both are potentially capable of laying eggs in that year.
It's me again! I was just wondering...was it intentional for Angela and Demona's names to be Angel and Demon with added a's? It's pretty cool since Angela is like an angel and Demona is like a demon. As MacBeth pointed out "You fight like a demon."
Thank you for answering my questions.
And, yes, it was intentional, the parallelism, all of it.
Well Demona and Angela ever get along as mother and daughter?
1.)Did Magus, Tom, and the Princess know Angela was Goliath and Demona's daughter?
2.)Did they know Gabriel was Desdemona's and Othello's son?
3.) Did we ever meet Ophelia's parents? Besides the Britain Clan and Zafiro, she is one of the most interesting looking.
1. Given her looks and coloring, it's not a great leap.
3. I haven't given it any thought.
How many of the clan's eggs were Goliath and Demona's??
I assume you're referring to the 36 eggs that Princess Katharine preserved, in which case the answer is one: Angela.
Gargoyle females only lay one egg at a time, generally.
You can explain how is the reproduction of a gargoyle, you can specify times (hatch)?, it dont know if this contradicts the rules of the forum, but
seems me interesting. For example Angela's birthday. When it is when Demona put the egg or when breaks?
I'm sorry, but I'm just not clear what you're asking, but I'll do my best.
I've talked about Gargoyle reproduction before; check out the "Gargoyles Biology" Questions answered archive for details. But basically, gargoyles lay a new generation of eggs every twenty years. Those eggs hatch ten years later.
Demona laid the egg containing Angela in the year 988.
However, because time passes differently on Avalon, Angela didn't hatch until 1078.
why was it that all of the 6 original gargoyles in manhattan were male?
Well, you're not counting Demona, of course.
Originally, we had two females. Dakota and Coco. Dakota evolved into Demona. Coco evolved into Broadway. At which point, to be honest about our cowardice, we didn't feel comfortable making our only positive female character overweight. In addition, there's a conventional wisdom -- which I don't subscribe to, but which influences my choices because so many in the industry DO subscribe to it -- that states that boys don't want female heroines in their boys action shows. Our primary target (not our only target) was boys 6-11 years old. No one wanted a female hero.
Of course, I love writing female heroes. They're easily my favorite. And I think properties like Buffy or Tomb Raider prove that I ain't wrong about the appeal to both gals and guys.
But, I don't always have the courage of my convictions. Introducing Angela was, in part, a way to make up for a clear void in the original show.
If Gargoyles had continued, how would you have developed the Angela-Demona relationship?
Would they ever find a medium? Or be at least friends?
Since the last time Coldfire talk to to Demona was back in 994, what does she think of Demona's new way of life in 1996?
How close were Demona and Coldfire back in the "Dark Ages"?
2. I think Michael Reaves came up with a Medium that we never used. I can't remember her name though at the moment.
3. I'm not going to reveal the long-term result of their interaction.
4. Well, at the moment, I doubt she's aware of it. But assuming she found out, I think she'd be very disturbed.
5. Close as sisters who aren't actually as close as they think.
Ok, this question might get a few nasty comments written about it and all but I'm going to post it even if I get rotten vegetables thrown at me. In fact I'm apologizing a head of time for this question.
Ok, Why was Angela such a (there is no nice way to put this or at least I do not know of one) flake?
I'm sorry to write that but out of all the main characters that were female she acted the most like head was in the clouds.
Well, the question doesn't anger me, but I don't buy the premise. What makes you say that?
She's certainly a touch more innocent -- not a surprise, given her upbringing -- than most of the rest of our characters, but I don't see any evidence at all of flakiness.
will Broadway ever meet Gabriel and the rest of Angela's rookery siblings? if so, what will Gabriel think of Broadway?
At some point, yes.
Broadway's a pretty personable guy, wouldn't you say?
I would think that Gabriel would like him.
hey greg i have been wondering about demona lately so here are my questions
1.In the episode city of stone why did't demona stay in wyvern was in it much safer then in a cave or it it would bring to much painful memories
2.I notice that in city of stone in the cave where demona and her clan lived there was a beach behide it so i am wondering since castle wyvern was next to a beach was the cave near wyvern
3.does demona approve of angla's relationship with broadway
4. in vows why did't demona use the phenoix gate to stop
the death of her clan
1. The phrase "The Horror. The Horror." comes to mind.
2. I don't recall a beach behind that cave, and I always thought of that one being more interior to Scotland. But in any case, no, it wasn't Wyvern.
3. Well, as of when I left the show, Demona didn't know about Angela's relationship with Broadway. Only Angela, Broadway and Brooklyn knew. But assuming she found out, I think she'd have mixed feelings. Broadway is a Goliath loyalist, for starters.
4. A careful viewing would show she couldn't. If you're asking why she didn't try, I think one answer is that she did. Not by going back to the daylight hours of the massacre, when she couldn't have done anything anyway, but by going back to a point when her past self might -- had time travel worked that way -- have been able to change everything from that point forward.
Time to ramble...
This episode was directed by Dennis Woodyard, written and story edited by Cary Bates.
The one word title, as usual, was one of mine. I thought initially that we'd be even more focused on the Cathedral. That we might play a Quasimodo character. Heck, if Disney's "Hunchback" movie was going to have living gargoyles bouncing around, then I could have a Quasimodo swinging from the bell-ropes.
But the story, thank goodness, rightly evolved into a family drama with Goliath, Elisa, Angela, Demona, Macbeth and Thailog (and Bronx) providing us with one very ODD family. Quasimodo went away in favor of Thailog.
And we had to work a bit to make sure the thematic idea of the heart as a Sanctuary worked its way into the picture. Thank God for that French minister, eh?
During the "Previously..." recap the following exchange was heard between my eight year old daughter Erin and my five year old son Ben, after Angela learns (in that scene from "Monsters") that Goliath is her biological father:
Benny: He IS her father. He laid the egg.
Erin: Girls lay eggs.
Benny: His wife laid the egg.
Enter, for the third time or the first (or, depending on your point of view, maybe this one doesn't count either), Ms. Dominique Destine. She tells Mac, "We have all the time in the world..."
This for me (and I know for Bond expert Cary) was a very memorable line from "On Her Majesty's Secret Service." And always a good sign that a relationship is going to come to a bad end.
Elisa tips her hand, which she can do cuz no one is awake, about how she really feels about Goliath here. "The most romantic city in the world and Goliath isn't awake to share it with me." (Or something like that, all quotations are approximate.) That's what she'd like to do, I'd wager. Soar over Paris with G. the way they soared over Manhattan in "Awakenings". Now had he been awake, do you think she would have made that request? Or would she in fact be distancing herself from him simply BECAUSE she had that impulse?
After her adventure on the Loch, it's nice to see Margot on a pleasant little stroll through Paris.
THE GARGOYLE WAY
Why is Goliath so resistant to parenting Angela? After all, though they're really more like younger brothers, he does his fair share of parenting the Trio.
He falls back on "The Gargoyle Way", but that's certainly inadequate, as Diane Maza will later point out. Yes, he's only one of her rookery fathers, but he's (a) the only one there and (b) the only one left alive except for the two souls trapped inside the AWOL Coldstone.
Ultimately, I think the answer is that Angela's sudden obssession with her "BIOLOGICAL" parentage makes him nervous because of the obvious extrapolation to what comes next. If she's obssessed with me as Daddy, then what happens when she learns who Mommy is?
And that's the key. He's divorced Demona. His wife who laid the egg. It took centuries and months, but after "Vows" he moved on. Now he sees Demona as a nemesis. A painful one to be sure, but a nemesis none the less. He's afraid of what the knowledge will do to Angela. He's afraid of what Demona will do with Angela, should Angela share that knowledge. And is he perhaps afraid of what -- under Demona's influence -- Angela might become?
There's some nice animation in this episode -- but none of it is at Notre Dame. That sequence put us through fits in retakes and editing. Ugghh. It's still painful to look at.
But there's some nice stuff going on...
Demona says: "In here my love." to Goliath before she realizes its not Thailog. What did you all think of that line? At this point we had only seen one silhouetted monster from a distance. And since you knew Demona was in town, we intentionally tried to lead you to belive that she was the Monster at Notre Dame. Were you expecting Thailog? Or did you think that Demona was addressing G as 'my love'?
Goliath's arrival is a shock to her, so what did you think then?
Then Thailog's arrival is supposed to be a bigger shock to you guys. Was it?
I love hearing Thailog say: "My angel of the night."
Demona has a good line too: "Jealous and paranoid."
Later, we set up Nightstone Unlimited and their two "human" identities, Alexander Thailog and Dominique Destine.
At this point in production, we knew that Fox was going to have a baby but we had not named it yet. I couldn't think of a better first name for Thailog and later I couldn't think of a better first name for Alexander Xanatos. At first this bugged me. But I began to realize it made perfect sense. Xanatos had programmed his "first" son well. If X would pick Alexander, why wouldn't T have picked it as well. And there's something so symmetrical about both his kids being named Alexander.
Elisa sits at a french cafe talking out loud to herself. Ugh. Very awkward. Obviously, we couldn't come up with a solution we liked better. I'm sure it occured to me to do it in voice over, but just chucking a V.O. sequence in the middle of an ep is very awkward too. Suddenly, the movie is POV Elisa, and we weren't doing that here. (Cf. "Revelations" and Matt's VO narration.)
I do like her last line though, coming as it did from a long time Superman scripter, Cary Bates: "This is a job... for the Gargoyles!"
THE WEDDING NIGHT
We had Macbeth use the Lennox Macbeth name instead of Lennox Macduff because we thought it would be too confusing to give him an entirely different name to any new viewers. And it makes sense that he has multiple aliases. But it still bugs me and I think in hindsight, I wish we had just been consistent.
Demona kicks Macbeth into unconsciousness, and Erin asks: "Why didn't she get hurt?"
And that's a very fair question. As usual with D&M's Corsican Brother connection, we tried very hard to be faithful to it, but it was very hard. And we wound up being a bit inconsistent. The best I can suggest is that when Demona knows she's going to hurt M and it isn't just on impulse, she can more or less steel herself against the magical feedback. It's still painful. But she doesn't show it as much.
The Gargoyles wake up and Elisa says: "Look alive, guys!" Well, they do now, don't they?
I love how Thailog slips Mac the gun and then later yells at Demona, "Didn't you search him?!" He's an evil genius that one. And passive-aggressive too.
Thailog's plan is brilliant, I think. So elegant. So simple. And if not for Elisa, so effective.
Mac's suicidal tendencies resurface. Demona's legendary temper gets the better of her common sense.
Thailog really comes into his own in this ep. Sure, Xanatos said he may have created a monster, but now Thailog has outsmarted X, D and M. Who the hell is left to outsmart?
And he has some great lines too:
"You and what clan?"
"Teamwork is so overrated."
"Aren't you spunky?'" (Another Lou Grant reference of course.)
To be fair, he couldn't immediately know that Angela was blood kin, but still doesn't his reaction to her give you the creeps? When X says Angela is lovely in "Cloud Fathers" I don't think anyone thought he was being salacious. But T? Yeah, baby.
Of course, Goliath finally gets the picture after this one. Up to this point, he was thinking Demona's the lost cause but maybe Thailog is salvagable. Now he knows better. At least about T anyway.
There's a lot of water in that water tower. It looks cool though. The animation here makes up for the Cathedral stuff.
I love Goliath's two-handed punch.
I love Demona's punch-drunken sway, as she makes her move to, as Mac says, "put us out of our misery..."
But I've always wondered why the background painters put multiple pictures of Elisa on the wall of Macbeth's chateau. Odd, that.
When I was young, I used to love MASH, particularly back in the Wayne Rogers days. (And, yes, Wayne is a friend of my dad's now. But they didn't know each other back then so I was unbiased.) But one thing that used to drive me nuts was the repetition of the following exchange:
<LOTS OF SHELLING IS ROCKING THE HOSPITAL. SUDDENLY, IT STOPS.>
Hawkeye: Do you hear that?
Someone else: Hear what?
Hawkeye: Silence! The shelling's stopped!
This was fine the first time they used it. By the twentieth time it got VERY old.
But we do a version of it here after Elisa shoots Demona ending the battle.
Why? When it used to drive me nuts? It's amazing what I'll pay tribute too.
KEITH meet MR. DAVID
I love playing Thailog against Goliath, because I love those Thailog/Goliath exchanges where Keith plays both roles. That's one of the main reasons we created Thailog. To enjoy listening to Keith go to town.
Goliath: "She has done you a favor, Macbeth."
That line should be a bit of a shock when G first says it. But it makes a lot of sense after he explains. And I love the look that Goliath and Elisa share. They aren't even pretending they don't share those feelings. They just won't act on them.
And how about Goliath actually telling a joke: "Just make sure you get a good look at her at night." Word.
One of the things I like about our series is we didn't have to end each episode the same way.
This one ends rather darkly. Goliath won't acknowledge the obvious. He just broods. Angela turns to Elisa: "Elisa, I have to know." And Elisa confirms that Demona is Angela's mother, because it's ridiculous to either lie or to not confirm the obvious that Angela has already figured out. But she knows G didn't want A to know that. So everyone is left unhappy as we sail into the fog.
And Erin ends the episode saying: "I think Elisa should be her mother."
(Me, I've always seen them sharing a more sisterly relationship. But I thought Erin's idea was sweet, and certainly came out of the sexual tension between E&G.)
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
In prep for my ramble on Sanctuary, here's my notes to Story Editor/Writer Cary Bates on his first outline for "Sanctuary"...
Notes on "Sanctuary" Outline...
Cary, I'm going to resist the temptation of beating this all out for you. That's how I got so far behind before. And at this stage I doubt I could do it any faster or better than you. So I want you to do a second draft on this outline, addressing ALL of the notes below. I sympathize, in advance. This is a complicated story. But I know we (meaning mostly you) can make it work. Don't take too long. And feel free to call after you've read this. We may be able to work out some of the problems over the phone. Good luck and here goes:
How does the title fit? What is the theme of the story? Is it about feeling safe? Safe in the arms of someone you love? I like that notion, but we'd have to emphasize it a lot more.
And simultaneously, more of the action should be centered around Notre Dame Cathedral. Economically, we can't afford to design backgrounds for an entire city. So we should keep the action focused on a few locations, that climax at the gargoyle covered cathedral-"sanctuary".
Plus, we don't want newspapers to be generically talking about a "mysterious winged creature". We want them focused on the Creature haunting the Cathedral at night. Maybe they think it's someone posing as Quasimodo, or his spirit or maybe they even think it's a gargoyle come to life or something. Of course, it's really Thailog. (Not Demona, by the way.) He's been there since "Double Jeopardy". Arriving long before Demona and Macbeth arrived.
We need to involve Thailog more at the end. Make him part of the conflict. I think he would have upgraded a bit. Used some of that $20 million to armor himself for battle. Not necessarily robotic armor, but at least a chestplate. Maybe wrist and shin guards. Keep in mind, we want him to be more powerful than Goliath and more threatening than any other villain. We should probably arm him with some big high-tech bazooka/laser/cannon type-thing too.
And we don't have to break up Demona and Thailog at the end. We just need to know that Thailog doesn't really care for her.
Remember, Thailog's plan isn't to kill Demona and Macbeth for the sake of killing them. He wants what they have managed to acquire over the last nine hundred years. If he could add that to the fortune he's parlayed from the money he stole from Xanatos, he might be able to compete with Xanatos financially. He needs to have already merged Demona's holdings with his own. So that his corporation (and we should get a cool, evocative name for it) we'll inherit in the case of her demise. And he wants to inherit Macbeth's stuff too. So if Mac and Dierdre marry, and both die together, (which is the only way they can die) he'll get everything.
Now, I'm not pretending this is easy to accomplish. As I read the outline, I was wondering if we needed a maguffin or two to symbolize this wealth. Maybe Macbeth's Paris Mansion itself. But we managed to figure something out for "Outfoxed" that clearly and dynamically spelled out Halcyon and Fox's "financial conflict". We can do the same thing here. With the same clarity.
Does Macbeth plan on telling "Dierdre" the truth about himself?
Is this the first time since Gruoch that Macbeth has been in love? Since he's an immortal has he avoided close relationships, not wanting to outlive his lover? Or watch her grow old? Or has he been through this before? Maybe not often, but once or twice over the last nine hundred years. How did he handle it in the past? Is he doing something different now? Highlander questions, basically.
Is Macbeth afraid for Dierdre's life? Does he think Demona might try to harm Dierdre to get back at him?
Do Goliath, Elisa and Angela assume at first that Macbeth and human Demona are in cahoots and only realize/remember later that since M&D have no memory of anything between City of Stone and Avalon, that Macbeth might not know that this human woman is in fact Demona?
Do we have an opportunity, maybe when Goliath and Elisa are searching Paris for the villains, for them to be romanitcally affected by the City of Lights?
When it's over, instead of Macbeth simply remaining bitter and once again suicidal, could Goliath point out to him that life offers possibilities... that if Macbeth could fall in love with Demona, he could certainly fall in love with someone else? Someone nice who would make his long life worth living again, at least for a time.
A bunch of things, (some of which Cary the Story Editor should have been able to catch from his reading of past scripts, tsk tsk). Some of these notes may be moot after a rewrite of the outline.
Beat 2) Goliath, Elisa and Angela know that Demona and Macbeth left Avalon unconcious and together. Wherever they landed it would also have to be together. (Of course, Goliath and Co. have been travelling for awhile. So there's no guarantee that Macbeth and Demona stayed together after landing wherever they landed. It's just a good bet.)
There's also no reason for Goliath to assume that Macbeth and Demona are involved with each other still. (After all, they hate each other.) Also no reason to assume that Macbeth would be hurt by the association. And though there's no love left between Demona and Goliath, Goliath has no reason to feel sympathy for Macbeth. The audience might. Some of them would know Mac's backstory from City of Stone and sympathyze, but Goliath doesn't know the whole story. And he's got no reason to think more of Macbeth than Demona. Ironically, it is Thailog, more evil than any of the others, who Goliath would have the most sympathy for. He sees Thailog as a victim of poor upbringing. He'd like to reform and rescue his "son".
On the other hand, by this time Goliath believes that they land everywhere for a purpose. If he sees Macbeth and/or Demona, it's not too big a leap for him to figure that whatever the purpose, it involves these villains.
Beat 4) Again, here we'd like the headlines to be more specific to the Cathedral.
Beat 5) Elisa would recognize the human Demona from "High Noon".
Beat 7) We are forcing the creation of a lot of different sets and backgrounds here. Also don't forget that Demona's transformations to gargoyle (and back) are painful. Also don't forget that Macbeth feels any pain that Demona feels and vice versa. Distance reduces the pain, but we've never been really specific about how much distance or what the reduction is. Does Macbeth, across town, feel a little of Demona's pain at transformation? If so, he could blame Demona, knowing as he does, that he feels her pain. All that would tell him is that Demona is in the vicinity. It wouldn't reveal that Demona is Dierdre, unless he saw her transform. On the other hand, Demona might be far enough away that Macbeth feels nothing. Or just a slight twinge of soreness, that he doesn't immediately connect with Demona. We can play it any of these ways, we just need to deal with this "Corsican Brother"-style pain-sharing. We can't ignore it.
Beat 10) We've got a lot of set-up with little action up to this point. Maybe we can streamline a bit. Also, it feels like Mac's hovercraft might be a little unwieldy for this sequence. Maybe he's on the flying equivalent of a jet-ski or something a bit more svelt.
But there's another big question. What is Macbeth's objective towards Demona at this point? He knows that the only way to rid himself of her is to die himself. He may have forgotten the lessons of City of Stone and Avalon, but I would think that his love for Dierdre would prevent him from wanting to die. Later we imply that he's chasing Demona in order to chase her out of town. But that's pretty goofy logic. "I haven't seen you in weeks. So I'm going to hunt you down, to make sure you stay out of my life."
Beat 11) We definitely want to do something with the Eiffel Tower. Maybe even stage a battle there in the first or second act. But the Tower is open to tourists at night. Does anyone see them hanging there? Or are we way into wee hours by this time?
Beat 13) Goliath can't steal this guys camcorder. He's not a thief. Even destroying it is pretty malicious for Goliath, who's never gone too far out of his way to hide from humans.
Beat 16) Gargoyles don't kiss. They stroke hair. And it's "Notre Dame" ("Our Lady"), not "Notre Damn" ("Our Damnation"?)
Beat 17) The Cathedral is a very temporary safe house for Thailog while some safer, new place is being built for him. (Or maybe that's part of what Thailog is after: Macbeth's Paris Mansion.) It is not abandoned. Thailog is safe their during the day, because he's like a needle in a gargoyle haystack. After dark, he can stay out of sight in the upper reaches, until the Cathedral closes for the night. But he can't have much of a set-up there. Computers? Paintings? I don't think so. Particularly when we've got reports of a creature climbing around the church at night. People might investigate. They wouldn't find Thailog. But what would they make of that computer?
Beat 18) Demona may have no desire to "see" Goliath, since she found Thailog. But she'd still want him dead. Plus she MUST be curious about this female gargoyle. She thinks she knows all the gargoyles that exist, and none of them are female. She'd have to know. (And for that matter, so would Thailog.)
Beat 19) Think about how silly it would look in live action, if a villain who looked like Thailog, whipped out a brush and in a few seconds added a necklace to a painting. It's equally silly looking in animation. Maybe moreso because it's so easy to do.
I don't understand the pre-nuptual agreement at all. Why does Macbeth feel he needs it? (And don't tell me his lawyers push him around.) Besides, the whole idea of it goes against what we want to have happen in the story. Thailog wants Mac and Demona to get married. And have Demona inherit so that he can inherit from her, when both Demona and Mac die. Or am I missing something? I don't think we want this to be about stealing money from a safe. That's small potatos for Thailog and Demona. Either we need to have some irreplaceable (possibly magical) maguffin in that safe, or we should be dealing with the whole ball of wax. The former would probably be easier, but I'd like to go for the latter ball of wax if we can.
Beat 20) Again, I don't buy Macbeth's logic for hunting down Demona.
Beat 21) Angela can't operate a camcorder. She's not Lex. (And as noted above, I don't see anyway for our guys to have this anyhow.) Plus she wouldn't recognize Thailog. Also it feels like a pretty big jump for Goliath to figure that Demona and Thailog are working together. Not an impossible jump, but a big one.
Also, I was unclear. Did Goliath have a chance to give instructions to Elisa or did he turn to stone before he had time?
Beat 23) Again, I don't believe Macbeth lets lawyers push him around. And I don't think we need this pre-nup agreement in the story.
Beat 24) I really don't like this camcorder. And I don't know why Elisa needs it here. Like if she followed Mac and Dem, returned to Goliath without visual proof he wouldn't believe her story?
Beat 25) "How can I prove my love to you?" "Give me the combination to your safe." Yeah, that wouldn't make me suspicious.
I'd almost rather play any scene like this where Macbeth is insisting on giving something to Dierdre, who protests that she doesn't want it. The more she protests that all she needs is his love, the more he wants to lavish on her. In this way, he is predictable, but he's not being fooled by "crocodile tears" into doing something that seems incredibly fishy.
Beat 26) Again, Elisa would recognize human Demona from "High Noon" the first time she saw her. But here I was entirely unclear. How does footage of Dierdre prove that she's Demona, when Elisa didn't recognize her in person?
And this bit about Dierdre being Demona's name...? Gargoyles didn't have names in the tenth century. Naming is a human convention. Goliath referred to Demona back then as his angel love, or his angel of the night. Do we want to change "Dierdre" to "Angel" or "Angelica" or "Angelique". I don't know if you still need this, since Elisa would recognize human Demona, but I suppose you could, as long as we wouldn't be confusing the audience with Angela.
Why wouldn't Goliath want Elisa along? And why would Elisa agree to stay behind?
And what is it that Angela's staring at? Footage of human Dierdre? This isn't going to help her make the connection between herself and Demona. Visual clues aren't really the answer at all, since she would have seen Demona in the Avalon 3-parter. She learned from Sevarius that Goliath was her biological father. Here she learns that Demona was Goliath's love all those years ago. She puts two and two together over the course of the episode. Figuring out the truth only after she's already come to regard Demona as evil. You won't have room here to deal with the ramifications of that discovery. You're just setting things up for another story.
Beat 27) Why does Macbeth want to capture Goliath and Angela if he wants to get Gargoyles out of his life for good?
Beat 28) Goliath is "spreading" lies? To who? I mean we know he's not. But who does Macbeth think he's spreading lies to, that makes him want to imprison Goliath to stop it?
Also Macbeth could NOT have heard about Thailog. He was under the Weird Sister's spell when Thailog made his only other appearance. Besides who would he have heard about him from?
Beat 32) Again, not at all happy about Thailog's magic paintbrush. Particularly since it proves nothing here. It's not a photograph. If Macbeth thinks Goliath might lie about Dierdre, why wouldn't he think that this is a further lie somehow accomplished by Goliath.
Beat 33) I'm glad Macbeth keeps his cook. That guy can make a mean omelette.
Beat 36) Again, don't forget that Macbeth and Demona feel each other's pain while fighting.
Beat 39) These are huge leaps for Angela to make. How does she know this about Thailog. Also does Thailog show up there, state what he states and then not get involved in the fight? Or is that a typo for Goliath? Maybe we should let the battle climax at the Cathedral. Thailog is there. Goliath tries to "save" his son from Demona's evil. (Goliath assumes this plan is Demona's, not Thailog's.) Thailog just laughs. Reveals he wants Mac and Demona to kill each other. And he'll kill Goliath to prevent him interferring. Or something like that.
Beat 41) Killing Demona would at least knock Macbeth out.
Beat 42) Again, doesn't Thailog want anything besides their deaths?
Beat 44) Goliath still needs to be in some discomfort vis-a-vis the biological mother and father thing. It's not the gargoyle way. Brynne is going to deal with this (she'll have the space to deal with it) in her Africa story. Let Elisa be the one who confirms Angela's suspicions.
Beat 45) Again, I think we're working against our own ends. Why does Thailog need Macbeth and Demona dead, if not for what he can gain by their deaths?
Beat 46) Again, I think we can let Demona and Thailog go off together. Also, we've spent the whole episode with Demona turning back and forth from human to gargoyle. Demona does not turn to stone -- ever.
Beat 47) Angela should not get any comfort from Goliath in this episode. You don't have the time to deal with it here. If she receives comfort, it would come from Elisa.
O.k. try another pass. I'd streamline, by opening with the skiff arriving in daylight. Elisa leaves the stone gargoyles on the skiff tied under a bridge and goes to explore Paris. A place she's never been. She probably calls home again. Maybe she tries her parents this time, and again gets an answering machine. To save money on a voice actor, the answering message can be one that Elisa recorded for her parents months ago. (My sister is on my parents' machine with a message she recorded two years ago.) Elisa's voice says something like: "My parents don't know how to work their answering machine, but if you leave a message for Peter or Diane Maza, there's a fifty-fifty chance they'll call you back"). You don't have to jump through hoops to get the message erased this time. Then she briefly wanders around Paris like a tourist until she spots Mac and "Dierdre" who she immediately recognizes as Demona. She doesn't know that Mac doesn't know it's Demona. She'd probably assume they're up to something bad together. And also guess that they're why she and Goliath, etc. have landed in Paris. She follows them at a safe distance, etc. She doesn't want to get spotted. Near nightfall, she might head back so that she can inform Goliath when he awakens. Or she might not want to lose Macbeth and Demona until after she's found their H.Q. Or maybe when Mac and Dierdre split up, Elisa follows Dierdre to see where she lands, then loses her among the tourists at the cathedral.
Anyway, that's somewhere to start.