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So I know you've answered this a number of times over the years, but rather than I asking the nth time, I've spent a while thinking about the "how".
So Macbeth and Demona cannot die but by their own hand and although there are situations that seem like they could die by another's (beheading, smashed stone, etc), these situations cannot happen because of the spell the Wierd Sisters placed on them. It protects them from assured fatal injuries that normally would kill mortals (again beheading, smashed stone, etc). The spell basically would manipulate events to ensure that Macbeth and Demona would always get out of such a situation (Macbeth getting caught in the French Revolution and is scheduled to be beheaded but some mishap with the dungeon keys delays it, buying him time to escape or Demona is forced to roost elsewhere instead of her normal spot because of some freak storm preventing her in getting back, thus sparing her from being smashed by the Hunters one morning).
They would have uncanny luck in avoiding death situations that would otherwise be assured.
I guess you're basically right, but I would recharacterize it. The Sisters may not have magically enforced this "manipulation," as you put it, so much as they magically predicted future events.
Rewatched "Hunter's Moon" yesterday (Sunday) on DVD - all three parts.
I've mentioned before spotting a lot of mentions of hunting, usually applied to humans going after gargoyles with hostile intent, and it struck me that this made it appropriate that the Hunters would be the gargoyles' adversaries in the finale. (Well, the Disney Afternoon finale/Season Two finale.)
And it struck me that the Hunters were the most dangerous opponents that the gargoyles faced in modern times, judging by results. They blew up the clock tower, destroying the gargoyles' home, and then exposed them to the public. The former was partly undone by the gargoyles getting their old home (the castle) back by the end of the episode, but not the latter - now the gargoyles are facing an alarmed public (even though they're safe at the end - for the moment). None of the gargoyles' other adversaries in modern times have been able to inflict that much damage on them. To top it, you'd have to go back to 994 and the Wyvern Massacre.
A few things that struck me this time around:
Goliath and Elisa are actually openly speaking to each other and even sharing a brief embrace on board the passenger train, just after foiling the robbery; fortunately, the passengers apparently didn't notice that.
Hudson greets the returning gargoyles as "lads" - then quickly adding in "And lassie, of course", for Angela. It reminded me of his use of just "lads" for the younger gargoyles in "Possession" that I mentioned in my post on it - apparently he's getting more adjusted now to Angela's presence in the clan.
The trio's clash with Demona in Part One seems the last "trio action" in the series; they're increasingly split up (or else acting with the rest of the clan present) after this.
Lexington and Brooklyn's shared uneasy glances when they return to the clock tower with Goliath near the end of Part Two seemed all the stronger when I realized "the audience knows that Robyn and Jon survived Goliath's fight with them, but Lex and Brooklyn don't - from their perspective, Goliath had apparently killed those two."
Jon Canmore's cry about the gargoyles when he's facing Jason at the end, "They killed dad!", struck me as a sign of how (even before shooting Jason) he was losing it; it was Demona who killed Charles Canmore, none of the Manhattan clan were even present at the event, and Jon was there so he knows it.
Broadway shows how much his attitude towards reading has changed since the start of "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" when he's talking to Angela about how great the castle library is (and we'll see them there together in "The Journey").
This story really does seem like a good conclusion for the series in so many ways - the gargoyles are back in the castle again, their war with Xanatos is (seemingly) over, they'd defeated Demona's big scheme to wipe out humanity, Elisa finally admitted her feelings for Goliath and even kissed him. Except there's a big loose end with the gargoyles' existence being made public, and most of the New Yorkers aren't too happy about it. (Brooklyn's "And so it begins" remark does also support the feeling that the story could continue past this spot.) But it certainly makes a good season finale.
Oh, and I counted the number of "claw-mark transitions" in the entire two seasons during this review - 28 in all.
We were pretty happy with it.
I watched "Turf" on DVD yesterday as well, but don't have anything new to say about it, so my new thoughts on "The Reckoning", which I watched with "Possession" on DVD today.
In Act I, Hudson warns Angela that her mother "is capable of anything". Angela later uses those exact words when confronting Demona in Act III.
Elisa gets bitten by a mosquito while in the Labyrinth; I wonder if that was the moment when Sevarius and Thailog acquired her DNA for Delilah; it'd certainly be a "playing fair with the audience" moment.
While Demona professes outrage over Angela's claim to be her daughter, her eyes aren't glowing red - and later we learn that she'd known Angela to be her daughter all along. The "eyes not glowing red" part makes a good hint to the audience that she was feigning anger and disbelief.
That mosquito is exactly when Elisa's DNA was taken for later use in creating Delilah.
Rewatched "The New Olympians" on DVD today.
Continuing the "hunting" theme in "Gargoyles" that I've paid closer attention to this time around, I noticed that Ekidne described the New Olympians' ancestors as "hunted". (I also spotted a New Olympian extra who looked a lot like traditional depictions of Artemis/Diana, the goddess of the hunt - though I think I'm reading too much into that.)
Goliath's words to Angela about how they cannot wage war on an entire city remind me of his words to Demona in "Awakening Part Five" of how he cannot wage war upon an entire world.
Also intentional. I love those kinds of callbacks.
Rewatched "Sanctuary" on DVD today. New observations.
Elisa writes Macbeth's name as "MacBeth". Not quite as serious as the infamous "Servarius" error in "The Cage", but still a bit unfortunate.
I was amused to note that Demona barely even registers Elisa's presence in the middle of her fight with Macbeth, even though Elisa's calling out to both of them - until just before Elisa shoots her. She does finally spot the detective and aim at her, but Elisa takes her down before she can do more than that. Apparently her feud with Macbeth tops even her hatred for Elisa.
I felt a sense of near-horror, though, as I noticed how Demona and Macbeth's fight was damaging the library, with several books apparently getting damaged or destroyed.
And the silhouette of a gargoyle against the moon in the newspaper photograph bears an uncanny similarity (obviously coincidental) to the Bat-Signal.
Those typos drive me nuts.
Rewatched "Shadows of the Past" today.
Bronx was definitely not enjoying the wild boat ride through the stormy seas - his response put me in mind of the "series Pitch"'s description of him as angst-ridden and not fond of adventures.
I really enjoyed the little animation details in this episode - Elisa cautiously climbing up the path from the shore, grabbing hold of the stone wall at one point to steady herself, or Bronx slipping a bit when he starts climbing up the cliff.
The entrance to the rookery looked different than it did in "Awakening Part One" - apparently those doors and the gargoyle-like face over them were removed by Xanatos to New York, along with the rest of the castle. The depiction of the now castle-less cliff - with a huge gap - brought home just how much of it Mr. X had removed.
I really like the illusory Demona's words to Goliath "Join me in the dark" - it's an illusion of her, of course, but those words capture so well in metaphor what she's been trying to get him to do (when not simply trying to kill him).
This time around, looking at the giant skull-like shape left over from the Archmage's battle with the gargoyles in "Long Way Till Morning", I tried to work out (but wasn't certain) whether it was a real skull (if so, it belonged to something really huge) or just part of the cave sculpted into the likeness of a skull. I'll have to pay closer attention to it, the next time I watch "Long Way Till Morning".
The animation on that episode was just lovely..
I rewatched "High Noon" over the weekend. ("Outfoxed", as well, but I'm giving it a separate entry.)
What struck me most about this episode this time around was that it was almost a "Shakespeare villain team-up" - Macbeth (and Demona, whom you could describe as a "Lady Macbeth" analogue) team up with Iago (more accurately, a gargoyle analogue for Iago, who's only called that in the voice actor credits). I doubt that Shakespeare should have objected to that, since he'd written at least one crossover himself ("A Midsummer Night's Dream", which blends Greek mythology with English fairy-lore).
I still like the touch of Hudson and Broadway learning to read from the newspaper - poor Broadway's still finding the word "right" a challenge (cf. "The Silver Falcon"). Again, I'm going to have to look through some books on the history of the English language to find out how so many words which sound like "-ite" came to end, in written form, with "-ight". It's probably one of the biggest challenges to someone learning written English.
Broadway's excited cry, as he and Hudson enter Macbeth's library, "Look at all these books!" struck me all the more, when I thought that, to someone who'd been born (well, hatched) and grown up in the 10th century, a library that size would indeed seem miraculous. What a difference the printing press has made!
"Iago"'s cry as "Othello" and "Desdemona" recover control of Coldstone, "I am besieged!", grabbed me this time around - such a dramatic way of describing the struggle within.
And this time, I also noted Coldstone's statement that, as long as "Iago"'s trying to recover control, "no *living* gargoyle" (emphasis mine) is safe from him. It brings home, I think, his awareness that he's now an "undead gargoyle".
Glad you liked it, still, after all these years.
Rewatched "City of Stone" today (all four episodes). A few things that stood out to me this time.
Continuing the "gargoyles being called beasts" thread: the granary guards in Part One call Demona's clan "filthy beasts". Gillecomgain doesn't use the term "beast" for Demona, but does call her a creature and a monster.
(By contrast, the "breastplate gargoyle" comments about their old home, after Demona and her clan have to abandon it following Duncan's attack, "The hunting there was good" - probably one of the few occasions where gargoyles are talking about being the hunters rather than the hunted.)
Demona's clan uses nets twice in this multi-parter - once against the granary guards in Part One, once against Canmore's army in Part Four. The nets being in Parts One and Four gave a nice sense of "bookends".
A detail that I can't believe I missed before: Demona was bearing the Hunter's mask at her belt, as if a trophy, after the battle with Duncan. (The young Canmore grabs it from her during his attack upon her.)
Demona calls Bronx "my pet"; I looked up your remarks on gargoyle beasts in the archives and found that gargoyles don't see gargoyle beasts as pets, but as equals. Maybe another sign that Demona thinks far more like a human than she'd admit (or than it would be safe to tell her)?
I like the touch of the various new kings (like Macbeth and Lulach) being hailed as "High King of Scotland" - the "high king" part conveys all the more a sense of Scotland as a collection of recently-united chiefdoms (which it would have been at the time in actual history).
We tried to get a feeling for the actual history into the piece.
Rewatched "Vows" today. A few new things that came to me.
I was hesitant about mentioning this, in case it comes across as an idea, but - from the way Goliath addressed Demona as "my angel of the night" at Prince Malcolm's wedding, I wondered if this was the first time he'd called her that.
When Xanatos referred to his getting the old coin that was the foundation of his fortune as "ancient history", I thought, "well, medieval history, to be precise".
I wonder how Prince Malcolm and his court must have perceived the Norman Ambassador's departure - he rides off just before the wedding, not staying to see Princess Elena, whom he'd escorted to the castle, wedded (even though he'd presumably be the closest thing to a representative of her father there). At least it doesn't appear to have caused a diplomatic incident between Scotland and Normandy.
The Archmage addresses Demona as "you stupid beast", continuing the pattern of unfriendly humans using such terms for gargoyles, that I've been paying close attention to this time around.
Brooklyn is the one most vocal about going to Goliath's rescue at the end; I wonder if Demona's involvement and his feelings about her had a lot to do about that.
I still think it's a pity that the original ending got onto the DVD; I hope that the Disney + version uses the corrected ending. (That's the main thing I miss from my old "Gargoyles" tapes.)
<sigh> That damn ending...
Where did Demona get her Tiara from? Did someone give it to her or did she steal it?
Really good question.
Features I'd just noticed about "Temptation", this time around.
1. When Broadway tells Goliath that Brooklyn had gone on a joyride, he makes motions with his hands suggesting someone gripping a motorcycle's handlebars.
2. Demona, when she talks about the events of "The Thrill of the Hunt", uses the phrase "hunted like animals" - which not only continues the "humans seeing the gargoyles as beasts" thread that I'd noticed all the more in "Awakening" and "The Thrill of the Hunt", but also put me in mind of the Hunters - no wonder she uses that description!
2. She's got a history...
Am I missing anyone or adding someone incorrectly? So far Sevarius has the DNA of the following?
Goliath, Brooklyn, Angela, Broadway, Bronx, Lexington, Eliza, Hudson, Yama, Robyn Canmore, Dingo, Talon, Maggie, Fang, Claw, Wolf, Demona, Nessie, Deiliah (Mix)?
It's been a while since I saw the episodes. I guess he has Delilah, but then if you're including her, he'd also have Thailog, Burbank, Hollywood, Brentwood and Malibu. I guess he probably has Maggie, Fang, Claw and Wolf. But then I imagine he has Erin, Benny, Thug and Tasha, too.
My last question was probably already ignored, but if not I apologize for it...after extensive digging through the archives I think it was answered.
But Iâm pretty sure this was never addressed....You kind of seemed to suggest that Elisa fell for Goliath spiritually and physically earlier than he fell for her. How is it then that she never seemed to be jealous of Demona? At least she never showed herself to be. Like in vows...I know she didnât know the details of what transpired there, but wasnât she ever worried that Goliath May eventually succeed in bringing Demona to the light and reunite with his mate?
Or was her willful desire to avoid the topic of their romantic linking overpowering any other feelings of insecurity or jealousy she may have felt vis a vis Goliath? Or was her guarded nature so tight that these secret fears never showed on her?
I just wanted to also say thank you for bringing us a love story for the ages...I think Goliath and Elisa are the most heart wrenching couple to ever grace the world of fiction. Thinking about these two tears my heart up in the best way possible. Watching Elisa as a little girl made such a huge positive impact on the person I am today...I love her so much that Iâm willing to relinquish the hold I wish I had on Goliath (if thereâs a straight woman out there who wouldnât melt all over this guy...I havenât met her yet).
And Iâm sure Iâm not the only one. I think you may have saved hundreds, thousands of 90s young women from our lesser selves with this beautiful, positive role model. There hasnât ever been another like her.
Elisa recognized her feelings long before Goliath (at least in my mind), but she also refused to acknowledge those feelings as connecting to a real possibility of a relationship for way longer than Goliath. And she wanted the best for Goliath, so if Demona could be turned around (during this period) she logically felt that would be a good thing.
Having said that, I do think Elisa shows signs of jealousy throughout. Little things. Rewatch. I think you'll see them.
I'm glad you loved Elisa as much as we did/do.
... Did Demona ever know that Broadway shot Elisa accidentally?
Not that I know of.
Hi Greg I watched Season 2 of Gargoyles recently and I am left thinking about one character at the end of Hunter's Moon. I'm hoping you can help me with.
Low and behold Demona wants to kill the humans again. This time with a biological planetwide human killing virus and protect the Gargoyles from the virus with some sort of gargoyle magic statue.
There's two problems I saw with the plan.
One Demona herself is human in the day which means when the sun rises the virus would likely kill her. Which means she'll die every couple minutes while the sun is up due to her immortality.
Two even if her being a gargoyle at night protects her from the virus. It will do nothing to protect MacBeth who will die by her hand and as a result kill her for good with him wouldn't it?
As I was watching the episodes I thought they were problems with the plan until the very end where Demona once again flies off alone.
Is it really a problem with the plan, did she have everything covered, or did the destruction of her relationship with Angela break Demona to a point that she didn't care as long as she made a 'better' world for her race?
In her mind, she had all the bases covered. But with Demona, if there's an element of self-destruction inherent to her plans, that should come as no surprise.
Does Demona own/drive a car? I've noticed in a wide shot of her mansion in the episode "The Mirror" that she has a garage for two vehicles.
Odds are Dominique has a chauffeur.
What does Demona think about the Gargoyle Minority Protection Act? Does she think positive about it or negative about it?
Hi Greg big fan, especially of Demona
I remember reading she was basically a military adviser to Macbeth, in your own words Secretary of defense.
So here are my questions
1. Where does her combat skills rank? Example is she more skilled then Goliath, below him etc, or how would she compare to Young Justice Characters in combat training
2. She has taken on Goliath once in awhile. Is she as strong as him, or slightly below.
3. Same question but this time for speed. Is she just as fast or faster?
4. How powerful is the Particle Canon she uses? Like could it Destroy a tank?
Anyways, thanks for this Greg, cant wait to see what you have planned
1. As always, I'm not big on ranking. Demona is a badass warrior. She can go toe-to-toe with Goliath. He has the advantage of size and strength, but she's more vicious and dangerous. As for comparing her to YJ characters... where would I start? She's a threat to anyone. Nuff said.
2. She's not as strong.
3. Shrug. Might be a bit faster.
4. It depends how you define "destroy". It would disable a tank.
Hi! English is not my native language, sorry for the mistakes in advance.
1 - How really Xanatos and Demona meet? In the "The Awakening" Xanatos says that he brought her before than the other gargoyles and she woke up there. That it's obviously a lie. At that point, one suposes Xanatos knows more about Demona than he is telling.
2 - Didn't Xanatos knows Demona is already immortal in "City of Stone"? The suposed spell she cast, should stole a minute of life of all citizens watching the TV. If Xanatos knows she is immortal I can't see why Xanatos could think Demona will help him to get more years of life.
Maybe the questions are stupid? I watched the show in my language around three times, and there was some translation mistakes. Can you belive the hints about Owen being Puck was deleted? All of them. I'll rewatch in english someday.
1. It was definitely a lie. But the truth is a spoiler.
2. He believed she was immortal because of the occasional reuse of that spell.
Not stupid questions at all. I'm sorry you had to work so hard to enjoy the show, but I'm glad you did and do.
In "Future Tense" Puck depicted Demona & Brooklyn as mates, now obviously that's not happening considering Brook found Katana & started a family, but was there ever a point in time in which you were seriously considering the idea of a reformed Demona hooking up with Brooklyn in the future? OR, was Demona & Brooklyn's illusionary relationship meant to be a hint towards the eventual pairing up of Delilah and Malibu later on? Or was that all just coincidence and Puck's "shipping" of Demona & Brooklyn was never meant to be a clue as to their future or the futures of their clones? I only ask because I was always interested by Puck's ominous warning to Goliath regarding how his portrayal of the future, while not one hundred percent accurate, could still give hints as to the possible futures of the gargoyles as well as their friends and foes, i.e. like how although Lexington himself didn't turn evil as he did in Puck's illusion, his clone did indeed "join the darkside" by siding with Thailog. Thanks for your time!
1. Honestly? Never.
2. <heh heh heh> Wouldn't you like to know. (I mean, obviously, you would. You asked the question.)
3. I'll leave this to your imagination/interpretation.
When Demona had the Phoenix Gate(Vows), why didn't she use it to transport some of the members of her clan to present day Scotland instead of bringing her younger self to the year 994?
How would that suit her one-track-mind plans?
1. You said that Demona would have 4 or 5 great loves total. Does that number include the one-sided romantic relationships she's been in? Like the Paris romance with Macbeth and her romance with Thailog, in which only one partner genuinely loved the other.
2. You said that Demona's clan, between 1040 and 1057, often slept at Castle Moray but never all at once. What was the reason for that? Was Demona's distrust of humans a factor?
2b. What was Demona's primary residence during that time?
3. When Demona is human during the day, does she experience any psychological changes due to her being fully human? The human hormones, instincts, etc... do they affect her perceptions/interests/attractions in any way?
4. Between 1040 and 1057, did Demona have anyone other than Macbeth, human or gargoyle, that she was friends with? Was there anyone as close or closer to her than him?
Thank you. :)
1. I don't think I said that. Can you give me a reference? I definitely wouldn't count what we've seen of either Macbeth or Thailog in Paris.
2b. Castle Moray.
3. Not that she'd acknowledge.
4. No spoilers.
I've recently rewatched Awakening, and the scene where Goliath tells Demona that she can't kill an enemy unless it is "in the heat of battle" sparked a question in me: as of Phoenix, which members of the Manhattan Clan have actually killed someone?
Most have, in battle, in the tenth century. Angela hasn't. Egwardo hasn't. Nashville hasn't. Maybe Lex & Broadway haven't. But that seems unlikely/unrealistic.
Oh, and if you're counting her, Elisa hasn't.
1. As of the end of the SLG comics, do either Macbeth or Demona know about what they did during the weeks that they were controlled by the Weird Sisters? Do they know about their actions in High Noon, how they were forced to attack the innocent people (inc Katharine, Mac's only remaining relative, and Demona's children) on Avalon, etc?
If not, what do they think happened to them between their fight in New York and waking up in Paris?
If either does know, how do they feel about the Weird Sisters as a result?
2. Do Macbeth and Demona share the "anguish" mentioned by the Weird Sisters in CoS4 the same way they share physical pain? For example, on their wedding night in Paris, could Demona feel Macbeth's emotional pain as if it were her own?
If not, how does that part of their link work?
3. Is the shared pleasure part of Demona and Macbeth's link physical, emotional, or both?
Thank you. :)
1. Largely, they do not.
1a. It's perplexing.
1b. I doubt either of them are terribly fond of the Weird Sisters in any case.
2. Emotional pain? That would require enough selflessness to acknowledge that anyone else has emotional pain.
2a. You're assuming that anguish isn't physical?
3. Have we established shared pleasure?
I know this isn't a forum, but I would like to respond to another poster who asked if Demona was ticklish by saying:
Would you really want to find out?:)
I'm not touching this one (or her).
In Enter MacBeth, MacBeth refers to Demona as the Gargoyles' queen. But wouldn't she or even someone of her clan from the past have told him a bit about Gargoyles and their clans and that they didn't have kings or queens? Or did she leave him to believe she was their queen?
I think you're taking his statement too literally. He saw her as the leader of the gargoyles, which she was during the key moment of his natural life. He views leaders in terms of kings and queens, so used that language. (Also as a chess metaphor, I seem to recall.) But he wasn't speaking or thinking about her this way literally.
In "Vows" When Goliath told to the young Demona about doing nothing to prevent The Wyvern Castle Massacre.To not let the petty jealousies that prey upon her heart.To fortify herself with love.Was he really hoping to prevent the future and was it his last attempt to reason her?
Yes, hopefully if forlornly.
I had a random question based on a question I saw about the Goliath/Demona/Angela parentage issue in "Sanctuary."
I just thought of this theory that maybe part of the reason why Goliath was resistant to telling Angela about Demona was because he was hurt over the end of his relationship with her, and having seen how she changed. So, he may, at least somewhere in his mind, have wanted to forget about her.
Do you think that may have been the case, not just his "Gargoyle Way" position?
If that works for you, I'm not going to object.
What was Demona's goal in City of Stone? Was a massive killing spree the goal?
Certainly that was part of it.
Since Demona is still around as of the Gargoyles 2198 spinoff, that means MacBeth is still around as well. I know you won't discuss any actual plans for the character (SPOILERS!), but can you tell us if you had specific plans for him? Or did the outline for 2198 not get that far?
I have plans for everyone and everything.
Here's hoping you're in a sharing mood... and to add something to GargWiki's timeline. ;)
From your timeline, you have revealed vague events that line up with a Gathering date and a character played by one of the special guests... so I was wondering if you now had one for ConVergence as it is the Gathering Reunion in 2014, and if so, if you would mind sharing it?
Gargoyle sympathizers gather for the first time in five years. Vinnie and Demona attend. (Just canon-in-training.)
1)When Macbeth first fought the Manhattan Clan, did he know they were members of Demona's original clan? And that Goliath was her former mate?
2)As of Phoenix, how much does Mac know of Demona's past before they first met? Does he know about the Wyvern Massacre and the role she played?
3)During the 17 golden years of Mac's kingdom, did he and Demona ever discuss her past? And if yes, how honest was she?
1. He knew the former, not necessarily the latter.
2. I assume you mean as of the END (i.e. the present day 1997 ending) of Phoenix. If so, he knows about the massacre. He's heard HER version of the role she played. I doubt she'd have copped to the entire truth.
3a. She was completely honest to her thinking. Emotionally honest. She just left out a few details.
1. In "The Mirror" was the decision to make Demona human during the day intended as symbolic, because she embodies all the qualities that she claims to despise in humans (bigotry, treachery, etc.). Or am I reading too much into it and it was just a way to make her a more powerful villain by freeing her of the limitations that hamper other gargoyles?
2. On that same note, was Demona's smashing of Titania's mirror upon seeing her new human form symbolic of her inability to face herself and admit that she possesses all of the above mentioned qualities? Or am I overthinking again and she just smashed the mirror because you didn't want to do any more stories involving that mirror and it was the only way to explain why Demona never again attempted to use it.
1. Does it have to be either/or?
2. Does it have to be either/or?
Since Goliath and Demona are the same age roughly in 994 what would happen when Goliath became to old to lead the clan and stepped down? Wouldn't Demona also be too old?
Yes, it would have been a concern eventually. But they were both young at that stage, and the bigger concern at that time was death by violence, not by old age.
Why didn't Stuart Canmore chase after Demona after she escaped the net in the flashback at the start of Hunter's Moon Part 2? She was just a couple feet away when she got out of the water.
I'd have to look again, I suppose, since it's been awhile, but as I recall, she was behind him, and he didn't spot her.
Is there any relation between Demona and Desdemona? They seem like pretty dissimilar characters at first glance but the Shakespeare references are so prevalent throughout Gargoyles that I could easily imagine there's some subtle reason that name was chosen (aside from meaning demon).
Desdemona isn't an actual name in the series. It was a script designation, same as Iago and Othello. We used these names in the scripts and the credits for reasons of clarity to those working on and viewing the series. And those names were chosen because of the parallels to the Shakespeare play Othello. So any similarity between Demona and Desdemona is purely coincidental. We obviously came up with the Demona name long before we came up with the designation for her rookery sister.
In universe, Desdemona had no name until she became a robot and was dubbed Coldfire.
Hello, Greg!It's me again. How are you? Well, I hope.
I was re-watching one of my favorite Gargoyles episodes, "Long Way to Morning" and I had a thought, particularly about Demona: How exactly did Demona know where Elisa's home was? I don't recall her knowing before this episode and i was curious. Was she somehow keeping tabs on her or spying?
Thank you for your time and answering my question. (:
Maybe she checked the phone book.
I'm told it magically gives out addresses.
I'll try and keep this short, as I'm sure your busy and having things to do, but basically I would like your honest opinion on something. And no, don't worry, it's not about ideas for any of the things you've worked on, nor anything that I or others have written.
Anyway, I'm an aspiring writer who wants to make his own series, and there's an aspect of storytelling that I can't seem to decide on. You see, I have always felt that there are, primarily, two types of villains:
1. The kind who do bad things and don't care
2. The kind who believe that their actions are justified
Summarily, I can't seem to decide which one is worse, as it could really be argued either way. I've asked some friends what they think, and have gotten back different answers.
Admittedly, the self-justifying villain tends to fall under a trope that I have a disliking towards:
Knight Templar - a villain who is convinced that he/she is the hero.
And, after thinking about it, there is at least one thing to appreciate about the "bad and don't care" villains; at least they have no illusions about what they want or what they're doing. Plus, we've seen a lot of the self-justifying villains in recent years, to the point where I think it might be overused. Which is why I think a balance between the two needs to be met, as too much of one can get old fast.
But anyway, I mainly just wanted to ask which type of villain you think is worse; the "bad and don't care" kind, or the self-justifying kind?
I take some issue with the reductive nature of your question. And so I think you're going about things the wrong way. It's not about which is worse. It's about what fits your character. Take, as an obvious example for this website, GARGOYLES.
We have two rather unique and memorable lead villains, DEMONA and XANATOS. I suppose you could reduce Xanatos to your definition of a type one villain. And I suppose you could reduce Demona to your type two. But there are moments when Xanatos thinks what he does is justified, and moments when Demona does a bad thing and just doesn't care. There are also moments when each has done truly heroic things.
The point I'm making is that a great villain is nothing more or less than a great CHARACTER. Write a character with consistency, backed by consistent motivation and history and I don't really care if he or she is type one, type two or type three. (Because, among other things, I doubt that there are truly only two types.)
Today I was reflecting on a few instances in my life where I had to make difficult choices: the easy road or the right road. I can specifically remember thinking about integrity in those moments, thinking about Renaud's "What have I become?" versus Demona's "What have they done..." Ultimately, despite the difficulties, I tended to do the right thing and tell the truth, both to myself and to others. In one case, this resulted in me being fired from a job.
The reason I'm telling you this is that, while I had some excellent role models growing up who showed me integrity, it would be unfair to say that Gargoyles didn't have a strong influence in my youth that would lead me to become the man I am today. I am now a teacher of elementary school students and see many young people with and without strong moral role models. In either case, it is clear to me that they are very influenced by the movies, TV shows, celebrities and social media in their lives. And it is my hope that mixed into all the stimuli they are receiving the kind of moral reinforcement that I had in Gargoyles. I am very grateful to you and your peers for creating a program that I not only wanted to watch, but that made me a better person. There is a lot of red tape that goes into public school education, and I know that in your field there is a lot of that too. But I wanted to encourage you to remember the impact you can have on young people. It is not all about ratings and toy sales and demographics. You have the power to guide the adults of tomorrow. You certainly helped to guide me.
Keep up the great work! And thank you from a lifelong fan.
You just made my day. Thank you.
I hope this question doesn't sound too nitpickey, but, I've been reading the archives and came accross something of aninconsistancy. I'll start off by refreshing your memory of this exchange beyween you and another poster:
"matt writes... what would happen at dawn if Demona put on a Mayan sun amulet? would she turn to a human or remain a gargoyle?"
"Greg responds... I think she'd turn human. But I don't think she'd be able to nap."
Now, you've also said before, when refering to magic, that Children of Oberon magic (ie. Puck's spell on Demona) does not mix with mortal magic (ie.the Myan Amulets)...and that both types of magic cannot be used at the same time or on the same object (ie. on Demona during the day), or the results would be disasterous.
My question is, in this specific scenario, why would both magics affect Demona (Puck's spell turning her Human & the Amulet preventing her from sleeping) without something more disasterous than a bout of insomnia?
It seems to me that, if anything, the magics would cancel each other out and she would remain a Gargoyle and turn to stone.
I think it's fairly clear I was joking, when I wrote: "Greg responds... I think she'd turn human. But I don't think she'd be able to nap."
As for the actual answer to the question, my current answer is that it seems like a highly unlikely scenario, and I'm not particularly interested in hypothetical questions. But if it were to happen, I'd have to answer with NO SPOILERS.
I was just rewatching Season 2 of Gargoyles and I noticed something...Angela and Demona's name. Angela=Angel, Demona=Demon. The names do fit the mother and daughter duo's personalities, but I am wondering whether or not this a coinendence that their names were set up this way.
P.S. Reading through your responses regarding people's questions on the Gargoyles, you keep saying, "No Spoilers." So, are you planning in the near future to continue writing about the Gargoyles in the comics? I hope so, because I am so looking forward to it! :D
Of course, it was set up that way.
P.S. I hope so.
Why did Sevarius leave Gen-U-Tech for Nightstone Unlimited? Xanatos didn't want to lose him as a resource and he didn't become more ethical. Did Demona and Sevarius offer him more money? If so, isn't Xanatos rich enough to give Sevarius a raise? Did he decide to limit Sevarius' creative freedom? What happened?
I'll leave the answer to that to your interpretation.
What are Puck's feelings towards Demona's rampant hatred against humankind? Does he, being of the Third Race, agree with her on some shallow level, or does he think she's a loony?
Mostly the latter.
1) The spell the Weird Sisters cast on Demona and Macbeth ensures that the two of them are unaging and immortal, only able to be killed by one another. However, in "The Mirror", Demona expresses her wish to no longer turn to stone during the day, stating it makes her "vulnerable".
If Demona were to be shattered by someone other than Macbeth when stone during the day, would it bypass the Weird Sister's enchantment and kill both her and Macbeth permanently, or would the enchantment be powerful enough to simply piece her back together?
1. Vulnerable to Macbeth, at least. The rest of your question is hypothetical and moot.
Hello, Mr. Weisman. Back again.
Something that bugged me a little when I was watching "High Noon" and "The Price"; in both episodes, Goliath wonders how Macbeth could have escaped from the Weird Sisters (of course, Macbeth didn't actually escape, but that's neither here nor there with regards to my point).
Anyway, my question is this: did it never occur to Goliath that the Weird Sisters might have just let Macbeth go? After all, he doesn't really know anything about the Sisters at this point; they're almost entirely an unknown quantity. Did he think that they'd keep Macbeth and Demona prisoner indefinitely (that isn't rhetorical; I really do want to know)?
Thank you for your time, sir. Have a nice day.
I don't know about indefinitely, but the Sisters didn't take them casually, hence Goliath's response.
Hello Greg, Big fan of your work. Met you at last week's Long Beach Comic Con. I have all the Gargoyles dvds and I still have a question about Demona. Hopefully you havent already answered this question.
But what is it specifically that causes Demona to betray her clan? Did Xanatos already influence that decision prior to her being revealed to the clan or was it the fact that Goliath didnt wish to kill anyone on Reinard's ship during their mission together? It would seem that Demona was taken back by Goliath's change in behavior. He wasnt the same gargoyle she knew in 994. Thank you for your time.
Actually, Goliath WAS fundamentally the same gargoyle she knew in 994. She had changed and changed so much, it colored her memories of him. She thought he would follow her lead, be as hateful toward the humans as she was. When he wasn't - and furthermore when he went to see a human instead of staying with her, especially after their less than in-synch mission on Fortress-1 - she decided that Goliath was the problem and needed to be convinced - or eliminated - at gunpoint.
You've revealed that Lexington is gay; that Fox and Puck are bisexual; and that Owen is asexual.
So, if you're inclined, I'd appreciate if if you finally settle the debate. Is Demona heterosexual, bisexual, or something else?
Using the word "revealed" makes me uncomfortable. What I say in different contexts doesn't make it canon. Yes, Lexington is gay, in my mind. The rest sound like things I might have said at a Blue Mug or something. Nothing said at a Blue Mug should be taken as definitive canon. Nothing is canon that can't be confirmed from the 65 canon episodes or the 18 canon comic book issues.
In any case, NO SPOILERS.
Gargoyles is a great show. Now that my praise is out of the way, I'm moving onto the question.
I watched the version of City of Stone with your commentary (which was very amusing) but there was one part which stood out to me. In the beginning of Part 4, we see Demona of the eleventh century meet up with Macbeth. You (or one of the other commenters) acknowledged that Demona was, and I quote, "a bit in love with Macbeth". It makes sense why she would feel this way, seeing that Macbeth was a close ally of hers.
Was this really true, or were these possible feelings of hers frivolous?
Um... all of the above?
Mostly, I prefer to leave that to every viewer's interpretation.
There has been a lot of talk over the years about why Demona told Goliath about the Praying Gargoyle during her gloating in "Hunter's Moon Part Three".
1. The gloating was exactly that, gloating. Like most villains, she had to have a "my brilliant plan" speech.
2. Subconsciously, she wants to be defeated because without humanity around, she'll lose her scapegoat and because she subconsciously knows she needs to be stopped, so she subconsciously handed Goliath the tools to stop her master plan.
3. And this is my interpretation, she actually believed Goliath would let her. After what happened on board the Hunter's airship in "Hunter's Moon Part Two", saying Goliath is thinking like a true gargoyle as he openly demands vengeance, seemingly killing two Hunters with Goliath, and Goliath himself not disagreeing when she says that perhaps they're not so different; she believed he was finally, finally seeing the light, finally coming over to her way of thinking, and... well, since gargoyles mate for life, thinking she might finally have her man back and a human free Earth.
Or maybe it was all of the above or none of the above.
All of the above. And more. She's a bit of a complicated mess, huh?