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Oberon and Titania

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dph writes...

Was Merlin's conception/birth intentional on the part of Oberon? What I mean is did Oberon deliberately seek out to have a son who was half mortal in the case of Merlin?

Greg responds...

I mostly think he was hot for Merlin's mom.

Response recorded on December 21, 2006

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Patricia Lovelady writes...

While utilizing the nifty SEARCH function, I decided to look up responses for "the whisper". I came up with this:

Question received on Mon, August 07, 2000 03:01:14 AM
Vasy writes...
1.What did titania whisper into fox's ear at he end of the gathering part2

Greg responds...
1. Do you think they'll be wondering about this in Ask Greg four years from now?
Response recorded on August 23, 2000

And given the most recent Q&A on that subject was recently posted.... 4+ years after that Q&A was done.... I think your answer holds true.. heh :) We were still wondering that in Ask Greg.. in 2004 :)

The fandom that you didn't anticipate has bugged you about something that you didn't think you would have been bugged about.

Keep it up, it's fun being confused, etc. :D

Greg responds...

My pleasure. (Most of the time.)

Response recorded on September 12, 2006

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Laura (Ackerman) Sack writes...

I was reading your answers to the Oberon/Titanina Family trees (November 2004) and two things caught my attn:

"Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.) "

-When you say that Titania 'became' queen while Oberon chose not to 'take' the title king- do you mean that Oberon's claim came from Titania and not from Queen Mab or his conquest of her? (Queen Mab is his mother, right?) Is Titania queen or queen consort?

I know in many cultures that seem to have inherited kingship the facts are actually differnt. Take Macbeth, for example: Luach was probably the first son to directly inheret a crown from his father in Scottish history. Macbeth's claim was as good as Duncun Canmore's, but Gruach came from an older line than either. Are Oberon's children similarly not straight forward? With near imortality succession probably doesn't come up all that much anyway.

You also wrote:
"Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream". "

I cannot believe I didn't notice you saying that before! When I read/saw Midsummer, (one of very few plays I can't get into while reading but love to watch), I always assumed the boy was the mortal child of a beloved, all-to-mortal, devotee of Titania's. The complete disregard for the boy shown by Oberon stealing him away (both physically and magically from Titania's attention) always left Oberon a bit too scummy for me to be fully happy with the 'all the couples were reunited and lived happily ever after." (Though, I'm told if my knowledge of mythology were more complete I would know the royal mortal couple don't end so happily, or at least longly, either.)

If the boy was in fact Oberon's, than the disregard might be feigned as a ploy to get him from Titania. Oberon is immediately made less scummy.

Barage of questions:
1.In the Gargoyles universe, how true to the Shakespeare is the 'true' story?
2.Was Titania aware that the child was her husband's?
If so, was her care for the boy as innocent and real as they seem (to me) in the play?
3.What made Oberon father a child with a worshiper of his wife? Coincidence? Meaness? Was she a worshiper of Titania at the time or did that come after?
4.I think, but do not remember clearly, that the woman did not die in childbirth. What did she die of, and could Oberon have been of help preventing it? Did he try?
(My pet theory is that Titania has tried to help Renayrd out a bit in his illness, but there is only so much she can do without being obvious. And even if she were to use blatant magic, there is still only so much she can do. Medicine and healing, though we take it for granted, is still 'big magic'.)
5. What ever did happen to the changling after the events of the play? Or, if you don't want to go into specifics, is he alive or at least have a unnaturally long life?

Apropo of very little- last summer I caught a rather good preformance of Midsummer in a Shakespeare in the Park(ing Lot). (Not as good as their Richard II that they seemlessly reordered to make the first half as flashbacks during the second.) Uneven. but with real flashes of brillance. Instead of dual roles, they had the traditionally dual roles played by exchangable pairs. The Oberon and Titania I caught had fantastic presence.

thank you

Greg responds...

Titania is Queen Consort, technically, but it's also a position of not a little authority at the top of the feudal pyramid, answerable ONLY to Oberon... and even he is somewhat reluctant to order his Queen around. Note that when the Weird Sisters report that everyone but Titania and Puck have arrived for the Gathering, Oberon immediately states that Titania may come and go as she pleases.

In any case, Oberon's claim to his throne comes from both being the son of Mab and being the one who took Mab down. It does not come via Titania.

As for your Midsummer Questions, this is a story I hope to tell one day, so I'm going to be stingier...

1. We'll have to see.
2. I prefer to leave the answer to this ambiguous.
3. She was already a worshipper. His motives... are also best left ambiguous for now.
4. I'm not revealing this now.
5. Ditto.

Response recorded on September 05, 2006

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Richard von Heinz writes...

1) Why did the producers of the show go with iron as the general weakness for Oberon's Children when many of them like Raven, Odin or Anubis were figures from mythologies that didn't see iron as a sort of "god kryptonite". In fact the Fenris wolf from norse mythology was able to snap his iron chains and had to be finally chained with a magical one and many of the gods and demons of the Far East didn't seem to have a problem with iron.

2)In relation to the first question why was Oberon the king and lord of the third race that included such beings as Odin and possibly Zeus and other godhead when in the traditional stories he was just a minor king of the fairies or elves?

In general I'm just rather curious why you put so many of the qualities found in fairies and elves such as Oberon and the iron weakness onto mythological figures such as Odin, Coyote or Anasi which in the end from my point of view kind of diminishes the gods.

Greg responds...

1) When combining so many mythologies, certain choices have to be made. Since we were putting a traditional "fairy" figure like Oberon at the top of our feudal pyramid, using iron made sense. I understand your objection, even sympathize with it, but I also don't regret our decision.

2) Well, a short answer is that we wanted to diminish the gods a bit... or put another way, we wanted to create a unifying system for them all. A feudal system. Oberon and Titania got priority, because in general SHAKESPEARE got priority. Titania, as far as I know, is not a traditional figure but an invention of ol' Will's. I've always freely admitted to being a Shakespeare fanatic, so his characters, including Macbeth, Oberon, Titania, Puck, the Weird Sisters, etc. were always going to have featured roles in this series. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference, and I was the guy in charge. That doesn't make me RIGHT in some transcendent sense, just means that I had the right to create the universe I wanted to play in. So I did.

Response recorded on August 24, 2006

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Lord GargFan writes...

Sorry to ask this again, but, here it goes...

What did Titania whisper to Fox at the end of "The Gathering, Part 2"?

Here are my reasons for you answering this question:

1. It's been long enough. Time to answer this question.

2. It's a burning question that most people want answered.

And another question:

Would what she whispered to Fox be important in a future episode or spin-off?

Greg responds...

Your reasoning seems faulty to me.

1. It's almost been too long. I think at this point my answer would be anti-climactic.

2. I know there's a contingent that doesn't want the answer, but just cuz some fans think they want it, doesn't mean they're right to want it.

And in any case, I have promised to reveal the answer when the Gathering has five hundred or more attendees, and not before. So if you really want the answer, help us scare up attendance for Pigeon Forge!

As for your final question, all things come around in Gargoyles.

Response recorded on August 22, 2006

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GargFan1995-present writes...

My first post :)

In "The Gathering, pt. 2", was what Titania whispered to Fox something important to the plot, a future storyline, or a spinoff ("You should have let me have your son, 'cuz he'll be great one day")? Or was it something stupid like "Computers with hundreds of megabytes of RAM are coming soon!" or "You're a cartoon!"? Or was it even worth discussing with you? (Note to everyone reading this - Maybe Greg doesn't even know what it was and this is all a way to make us think he does!)

Greg responds...

As I've said many times previous, I DO know and I thought it was clever at the time, but I think at this point the answer would be anti-climactic.

For the record, it was not a non-sequitor.

Response recorded on December 05, 2005

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Regarding Oberon

The other day, I was asked a question about sources for Oberon. I didn't know the answer, but I received this e-mail from site moderator, Todd Jensen:

Dear Greg,

In "Ask Greg" today, curousity asked you if there were any other sources besides Shakespeare for Oberon as "king of the faries [sic]". You replied, "Not off the top of my head." I hope that I'm not presuming here in e-mailing you, but I have found at least three works beside "A Midsummer Night's Dream" that portray Oberon in that role, both of which are early enough that they count as "primary sources".

One is a late medieval French work about one of Charlemagne's knights, entitled Huon of Bordeaux (written in the 15th century, and translated into English by a certain Lord Berners in 1548 - early enough, in other words, that Shakespeare could have used it as a source for Oberon). In it, Huon befriends Oberon in his adventures, and the latter becomes Huon's guardian, almost a "fairy godfather". (Oberon is portrayed in it as around three feet tall due to a curse placed upon him in his infancy, and as the son of Julius Caesar and Morgan le Fay!) At the end of the story, Oberon even brings Huon to Avalon and formally abdicates in favor of Huon, declaring him ruler over the "faerie-folk"; a bit of trouble develops, however, when King Arthur arrives at the gathering and protests, saying that if any human should be ruling over Avalon, it should be he himself rather than a relative newcomer like Huon. Oberon angrily tells Arthur that he has chosen Huon for his successor, is not going to change his mind, and even threatens to curse Arthur by transforming him into a werewolf if he doesn't accept it. Huon at this point steps in as a peacemaker, to say that he doesn't think that he could rule Avalon on his own and suggests that he and Arthur act as co-rulers. Oberon and Arthur both agree to this, after which Oberon peacefully dies and Arthur and Huon are crowned in his stead.

Another non-Shakespeare "primary source" involving Oberon is Michael Drayton's Nimphidia, which has Oberon ruling over the "fairies" as well - and wedded here to Queen Mab! (According to the research that I've done on fairy mythology, Titania appears to have been Shakespeare's invention as opposed to a pre-existing legendary figure, though Oberon and Puck both predated him.)

A third is Edmund Spenser's The Faerie Queene, which presents Oberon as the former ruler over "Fairyland", now deceased, with his daughter Gloriana - the Faerie Queene of the title - ruling in his stead. (Gloriana is actually an idealized Elizabeth I, meaning that the Oberon of Spenser would be an idealized Henry VIII.) The poem also includes, incidentally, King Arthur, Merlin, and Talos as on-stage characters.

THANKS, TODD!!!!


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Unknown writes...

How old is Oberon , now I know you answered this , but I want to find out the exact age [ .p.s. 1603 ]

Greg responds...

When did I answer this?

Response recorded on May 03, 2005

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Francois Ferland writes...

Hello again Greg! You know, this is getting addictive...

A Titania question, one I hope has never been asked, or at least not the way I'll be asking it...

I am, of course, refering to Titania's secret whisper to Fox. Since I got the hint long ago that, barring extreme circumstances, you'll take the content of her secret to your grave, I'll ask you something else.

I know you know what she told Fox. Now, my question, depending on your answer, has the potential of getting people off your back and have them never ask that damn question again.

1. Is Titania's secret to Fox of any value to us? Wait, let me clarify before you say something like "Define value". It has the potential to be a big revelation ala "Luke, I am your father", or it could be something simple of no real value to us fans except to satisfy our curiosity, like "Take care, child".

See, if it's not important for us to know, you can just answer no and be done with that question forever.

But if it IS of value to us, you'll probably just answer something non-commital and we (meaning other fans, not me) will just keep on pestering you forever...

Of course, knowing you, you could just as easily answer "Not saying" either way to keep us confused, since I'm beginning to think you like playing this game of leaving us in the dark, dangling a carrot in front of us to keep us moving foward just a bit further but never letting og of it :)

Anyway, thanks for the answer, no matter what it might be, and take care.

Greg responds...

The truth is, as I've mentioned before, is that the question has been built up WAY beyond any potential "value" as you put it. That's not to say it has no value, but I have a strong feeling that the answer would now be anti-climactic. Disappointing. In it's original context, it was probably kinda cool and neat and clever and, above all else, right. But I don't think the answer now lives up to the hype. That's the MAIN reason that I'm still reluctant to reveal it. In your minds, it's still very cool... in the not knowing, it's still very cool. Presented with it as words on a screen... maybe it's just an "eh".

Response recorded on April 19, 2005

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Gothic Cowboy writes...

Hello, again. I have a question/observation concerning Oberon. I have noticed an unfortunate trend among fans of the series (particularly in fanfiction, although I understand you don't read such material) to present Oberon in an unfavorable light. Even The Gargoyles Saga, which normally boasts excellent characterization, consistently depicts Oberon in a manner which I feel is grossly unfair. I liked Oberon. I thought that he was stern, but fair, and was also very concerned with the proper use of power. Granted, he possessed character flaws. But he banished his Children from Avalon, forcing them to live amongst mortals, because he felt that they didn't have proper respect for the rights of mortals. His Law is also shown in an unfair light. Most fans seem to like to show him as an uncaring, distant figure, who could care less if the bulk of humanity simply died off. I interpret his Law differently, though. Perhaps its simply because I am an inveterate comic book fan, and the topic has been frequently used in comic books. But I believe that Oberon forbids direct magical intervention, even to help mortals, because he understands that mortals must stand on their own. He understands that, if he were to direct his Children to use their powers to shelter and care for mortals, we would come to rely on them for everything, even the problems that we could solve on our own. Our potential would be stunted. We would eventually become little better than pets for the Children of Oberon. Obviously, he doesn't mind non-magical intervention. Puck interferes a great deal, but as Owen, without magic. Grandmother has seemingly guided and advised mortals for centuries. Many of the Children (including Oberon himself) have sired or beared Half-Fae children with mortals. His emphasis seems to be on ensuring that mortals don't become reliant on the Children of Oberon, that we feed our own poor, treat our own sick and wounded, fight our own battles. In short, that we make our own mistakes and stand on our own two feet. Was I off the mark?

Greg responds...

No. But you're comparing your interpretation to the interpretations of other fans -- interpretations that I have not seen.

In general terms -- very general terms -- I agree with you. But Oberon is also dangerous and powerful and subject to interpreting his OWN laws his own way. I don't think of him in a negative light. But I also don't think he's entirely benign either.

Response recorded on March 04, 2005

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Ineyboy writes...

Greg, I absolutely love Gargoyles, almost more than any other cartoon, ever (I'm sure that's been said before, but every fan should say it). I have some ?s for you, but I would like to apologize first if they have been asked previously, as I have not got a chance to read all the FAQ's. I would appreciate it if you could email me (inianj02@yahoo.com) your response, when you get to it. If you prefer to only post them, then I understand. You could say that my ?s may not be directly related, but they are both concerning Goliath's confusion about something.

1) In the beginning of "City of Stone: Part One", who was the Weird Sister referring to when she told Goliath that when he "...forgets that every life is precious..." he is just like "her"? I believe Goliath points to the girl he calls a "terrorist", but the Weird Sister was referring to someone else...Who? (Right after Goliath says this, the 3 sisters disappear; not that you don't know that, but for quick reference)

2) I won't torture you with everyone else's ? in "Ill met by moonlight," but I would like to know something else: At the end of the episode, what favor was Titania referring to when she thanks Goliath for a "favor rendered"?

Greg responds...

1. They were referring to Demona, who is the next person we see.

2. For saving her (and everyone) in "Walkabout".

Response recorded on February 03, 2005

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Roberta Bonaime writes...

I noticed in one of your answers to the question "Is Puck the biological son of Oberon" you stated that not only is that incorrect, but you also did not understand why we could think that. I think I have an answer to that. One they look incrediably simaliar, hair color, and facial features wise. Two, in several legands (I really do my homework.) Puck was the biological son of Oberon, and a mortal woman. three, when oberon banished Puck, there was a fleeting moment of sadness present on Oberons face. (Though, that might suggest that Obie was on Titania's plot. Mabye not though.)
Just thought you like to know.

Greg responds...

I think you're reading in the "moment of sadness".

You may have a point on the resemblance, though I think it's pretty superficial. I mean if Puck had blue skin...

I'm unfamiliar with the legends you speak of. What are your sources?

But, in any case, I'll grant that the audience had reasons to believe they might be biologically related. But they're not. Or in any case, not closely.

Response recorded on January 07, 2005

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Aves writes...

I've asked you what Titania told Fox, but I know now that you're probably only gonna answer it to your kids on your deathbed. So, I have a somewhat related question.

Was there actually something in the script? So did Kate Mulgrew actually say something? Was there something to whisper? Or was it just "Pst pst pst" so that you could establish some mystery for all those characters.

Now, the problem is, if the answer is no, I highly doubt you'll tell us, to keep the mystery that scene was meant to establish. But, if it is, you might tell us just "yes." But, having just written this, you might not tell us one way or another even if it is yes. I wonder, then, why I wrote this.

Greg responds...

There was nothing specific written in the script.

Response recorded on November 24, 2004

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Puck Robyne Lover!! writes...

Can you give me a family tree of oberon and titiania's children across the centuries? I can't figure out if Puck is Alexnder Xanatos is pucks nephew or not. I would really like to know about Puck's/owen's secret love that you mentioned earlier too.

Greg responds...

I'm not going to reveal anything new at this time, but I will summarize what I've already revealed:

Lord Oberon is the son of Queen Mab.

Lord Oberon married Titania (who became Queen Titania after Mab was overthrown). (Note: Oberon intentionally did not take the title of King. Retaining his "Lord" title is his semi-skewed attempt at being more... egalitarian.)

Oberon and Titania have two children together: one male and one female. I know exactly who they are, but I'm keeping their identities and personas secret for the time being.

Oberon also has at least two sons by mortal women: Merlin and the changeling boy from Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".

Titania has one child with the mortal Halcyon Renard. This is Janine Renard, a.k.a. Fox.

Fox married David Xanatos. They have one child: Alexander Fox Xanatos.

Puck, a.k.a. Owen Burnett, is not directly related to ANY of these individuals.

Response recorded on November 18, 2004

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Billy Kerfoot writes...

Dear Greg,

Hi Mr. Weisman, it's Billy. Man I couldn't believe my eyes
when my first question got posted with my name atop being ready to be answered back by someone like you. I've seen your name by a lot of cartoons so I've known you a lot but boy did I ever think that you and I could get in contact so easily! I know it must be a little strenuous to answer all of these questions on a show that has passed away for quite a while and you'd have to consider your question subscribers your buddies. Well Greg, I want to... I want to be your buddy! I know I might be a little crazy but you are the bomb! I'm glad you can recieve this note.

Oh Greg, if I got too hyper when I asked you my first question which was about a hopeful future for Lexington I'm sorry. I get so much into him a lot when I think about the show. He was the reason I got back into this show because I saw a ToonDisney late night lineup commercial and he looked like a nice guy and all. I still like him as a matter of fact and sometimes I think he's the type of person I've dreamed of being (not counting that nightmarish future guy I mean.) Don't take about what I said about that episode personally I mean it's a little OK. There is something about it that mesmerizes me real good.

I watched this cartoon with my dad when I was a kid on FOX at 6:30 A.M. way back when. I never really paid attention to it however because, well I don't know, I guess I wasn't seeming fit for it. But sometime last year when I heard about this show on ToonDisney I decided to give it a shot. So one night when I stayed up late, I checked it out and Leader of the Pack was on halfway through and guess who stars in that episode... Lexington!

Well Greg questions are why you're here so here I go:

1) I used to think Oberon and Titania were aliens but are they fays like Puck, how many powers do they have, and what are their occupations?

2) Are the Weird Sisters good guys, bad guys, or in between helpers?

Thanks for your time Greg! I hope we'll be calling each other buds soon.

Greg responds...

1. They have magic. What they can do with that magic is limited largely by their store of it and by their imaginations and by the Laws of Oberon himself. As for their occupations, they are the Lord and Lady of Avalon. In her human guise as Anastasia Renard, Titania is also a scientist, but I don't think she's employed by anyone at the moment.

2. All of the above. Check out their archives in ASK GREG for more info.

And thanks for your time, Billy. I hope you're still around to read these answers two years later.

Response recorded on November 04, 2004

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tell me the answer first writes...

What did Titania say to Fox at the end of The Gathering?
If you dont answer this(like you dont to all the other people who ask you this)I will assume that you dont even know the answer.

Greg responds...

Assume what you want. I maintain that I know MY answer. But that at this point, I've come to believe that no answer I could supply could live up to the hype.

Response recorded on October 25, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

You are NEVER going to tell us what Titania said to Fox at the end of the episode i cant recall he name of?

Greg responds...

It was "The Gathering, Part Two".

Response recorded on October 20, 2004

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Katie Bidwell writes...

Puck looks too much like Oberon to not be his child, is it possible Puck is related to Oberon if not his biological son?

Greg responds...

I don't see much resemblance, frankly. Which is not to say that they may not be distantly related. But they're definitely NOT father and son, nor do I see a familial relationship playing any role in their dynamic.

Response recorded on October 18, 2004

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BigQuartet writes...

What exactly did Titania whisper to Fox in that episode where Oberon was going King Kong on Xanatos's building?

Greg responds...

I'm not telling. I think at the last Gathering I set some condition for me to reveal this tidbit. Now I can't remember what the condition was. But I think I'll remember it when I hear it, so don't try to fool me.

Response recorded on July 07, 2004

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DeShawn writes...

Did you make up Oberon, or is he apart of real legend and myth.

Greg responds...

He's part of real myth & legend, and more importantly Shakespeare's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".

Response recorded on June 03, 2004

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Todd Jensen writes...

You once indicated (in the ramble on "The Edge") that part of the purpose (from the "behind-the-scenes/production-team" point of view) for Oberon and Titania's attempt to kidnap Alex in "The Gathering" was to give Xanatos a bit of a come-uppance.

Was your plan for Queen Mab to someday escape from her prison designed, in part, to similarly give Oberon and Titania a bit of a come-uppance?

Greg responds...

Did I use the words "come-uppance" or are you paraphrasing?

Mab is, frankly, too big a threat to simply act as a come-uppance. Certainly her "re-" appearance would serve to illustrate new shades of Oberon (and to a lesser extent Titania) as well as explain (at least in part) why Oberon is the way he is.

Response recorded on April 15, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Do Titania and Oberon's two children in any of the traditional stories about the fay?

Greg responds...

It depends what you consider fay-canon, I guess.

Response recorded on February 13, 2004

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jamie writes...

what are the roles of puck and oberon in a midsummers night dream

Greg responds...

In the Shakespeare play, Oberon is King of the Fairies and Puck is his servant.

Response recorded on February 12, 2004

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Zarok writes...

Hey Greg, quick question…
Has either of Oberon's and Titania's biological children appeared in any of Shakespeare's plays? (Why didn't I think of this years ago?)

P.S. I mean the children they had together.

Greg responds...

I'm not saying.

Response recorded on January 26, 2004

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Siren writes...

When Titania whispered to Fox, is visibly irked Fox. I don't even think it was anything as big as you say it is. Titania probably just told her "That shirt makes you look fat", it probably has nothing to do with the future of Gargoyles and that's why you feel we all might be disappointed. This was all just part of your Master Plan to keep us guessing and coming back, wasn't it?!

(So concludes Siren feeble attempt at irking Greg to come out with it already) ;)

Greg responds...

No. Not originally, anyway. It's you guys who have built it up and intimidated me into silence, frankly.

Response recorded on January 05, 2004


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