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Makhasu writes...

In COS part four, Luna tells Macbeth "And thus you both shall live, eternally linked, sharing each others pain and anguish. With no release until one destroys the other. Only then shall both finally perish, together. What she making a prophesy of what would occur, or was she just stating the rules of their link?

Greg responds...

Good question.

Response recorded on March 07, 2007

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Makhasu writes...

You said that, besides pain, pleasure also passes between Macbeth and Demona. Why would the Weird Sisters toss that in? Doesn't it creep Mac and D out a bit?

For that matter, when did they first find out about that? It must've been a pretty shocking experience.

Greg responds...

Your premise is faulty. You make it sound like the Weird Sisters made a choice. No one has definitively stated that. They made a link.

As to Mac & D's reaction, etc., I'm not revealing that now.

Response recorded on March 01, 2007

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Jurgan writes...

I've never asked a question here before, probably because I didn't have the patience to wait, but I just wrote this analysis of Demona and Macbeth's link for the GFW website, and I wanted to see what you thought of it. Am I on the right track?

Curses and Prophecies, Fate and Freewill

(Warning: This essay contains minor spoilers for Harry Potter books five and six. It's mostly about Gargoyles, so if you don't read HP you'll still understand this, but if you plan to read them soon, you may wish to stop reading now.)

Like most people reading this, Gargoyles had a major impact on my life. For me, the best it ever got was City of Stone. In fact, I would say that CoS was one of the highlights of my childhood. I still distinctly remember, when I was twelve years old, reaching the end of Part Three, seeing Demona advancing on stone Elisa with a mace, and then the words "To be Concluded." "You're telling me I have to wait a whole day to see what happens? I'm supposed to go to school? Screw that, I want to know how Elisa survives!" I've thought long and hard about CoS, and the key to it is the relationship between Demona and Macbeth. In fact, I think the Weird Sisters' spellcasting is, from a classical sense, the climax of the entire story. On the surface, the spell seems simple enough: Demona and Macbeth are linked so they feel each others' pain, and they will live forever. If someone were to kill one of them, (s)he would die and then quickly come back to life. If one of them were to kill the other, though, then they would both die. As I say, it seems simple. After reading Greg Weisman's numerous responses on the subject, I began to think about whether there was more to it than meets the eye, and it slowly dawned on me that it was much more subtle, deep, and brilliant than I'd ever considered.

For years, Greg has received questions like "What would happen if Macbeth got his head cut off? Would it reattach itself? Would it grow back immediately?" He has always answered something like, "Well, that hasn't happened, has it?" At first glance, that seems like just a weak cop out, with Greg trying to avoid a question he has no good answer to. In fact, he seemed to get pretty flustered at the way people kept projecting Highlander concepts onto Macbeth, which was probably inevitable given that they're both immortal Scottish nobles. Unlike Highlander, though, there are no explicitly stated rules as to how immortality works; all we have to go on are the Weird Sisters' words, and they clearly are not the most trustworthy or forthcoming of people. Remember that Luna is supposedly a representative of fate, and then think about the fact that the spell doesn't really talk about "what if this or that happened," but rather "what will happen." The final words of Luna to Macbeth in the past were that "you both shall live, eternally linked, sharing each other's pain and anguish, with no release until one destroys the other. Only then shall both finally perish together." From that, it's clear that the Sisters are not interested in playing hypotheticals about all the different ways things could happen: they simply pronounced what will happen. Rather than the spell being simply a safeguard against their dying, it could instead be thought of as a prophecy declaring quite simply what will happen to them in the future.

It turns out that at no point in the entire series do we see anything happen to either Demona or Macbeth that would be sure to kill them. In fact, there are only two times it really seems likely that one of them could die. The first is when Macbeth was stabbed in the back by Canmore- painful, to be sure, but not necessarily lethal. Certainly there are those who have survived a poorly aimed stab. The second is when Elisa shot Demona with Macbeth's electric gun. That one seems even less likely, as about three gargoyles get shot with one of those things in any given Macbeth episode. One might make a case that the roller coaster collapse in The Reckoning was potentially lethal, but that falls under the old comicbook rule of "if you don't see the body, the guy's not dead," and the fact that we know Thailog survived as well makes it clear that magic was not necessary to live through that incident. So, we have established that we have never seen anything unquestionably fatal befall Demona or Macbeth. Furthermore, Greg has told us that no such thing has ever happened. Knowing that, it follows that it is meaningless to ask what if such a thing were to happen- it hasn't! Such speculation is what is known logically as a vacuous proof: If A occurs, then B occurs, given that A is an impossible event. Consider the statement "All pink elephants can fly," or, more precisely, "If A is a pink elephant, then A can fly." This statement is absolutely true, since every pink elephant in the world can fly- there are none, so anything you can say about them is true. A simpler way of thinking about it, though less rigorous, is that the statement "all pink elephants can fly" could never be disproved, since to do so one would have to find a pink elephant that could not fly, which can never be done. It is equally true that every pink elephant cannot fly. What this means, then, is there's no point asking "what if Demona or Macbeth were beheaded" if it cannot happen- it's true that if Macbeth were beheaded, he'd die, and it's true that if he were beheaded, he would be revived, and it's true that if he were beheaded, they'd both die, etc. All of those statements are true, because they are all based on an impossible hypothetical.

So let us then accept that neither of them has ever been beheaded. That still doesn't prove that neither of them could ever be beheaded, in which case it would still be relevant to ask what would happen. To answer that, it's worth thinking of the Weird Sisters' pronouncement as a prophecy rather than a spell. Suppose we think of the Macbeth/Demona connection in these terms: The spell allows them long life and they share each others' pain. Since they share pain, if one of them were killed, then the other would die too. Then we see that what Luna meant by saying that they would live on until one destroys the other is not that they are somehow magically protected from injury, but simply that she was predicting what would happen, as an avatar of fate. Such a prophecy brings Harry Potter to mind. When Harry was an infant, a prophecy was made which roughly stated that either he would kill Voldemort or Voldemort would kill him. That prophecy was overheard and found its way back to Voldemort, who immediately acted on it by attempting to kill Harry and fulfill it in a way favorable to him. In so doing, he nearly destroyed himself and gave Harry powers that would enable him to finish Voldemort once and for all. Moreover, he gave Harry a desire to end Voldemort. Harry lost his parents and knew first hand the sort of pain Voldemort inflicted on others, and so he would not rest until Voldemort was finished. On the other hand, Voldemort believed in the prophecy, and thus saw Harry as the greatest danger to him, so he would not rest until Harry was dead. So the result was that the two enemies were both determined to kill each other. As such, it was inevitable that one of them would eventually succeed, and the prophecy would be proven true. However, it was not true because of some incomprehensible hand of fate hovering over them, but rather it was based on simple extrapolations from the subjects' characters, and the fact that they knew about the prophecy (fittingly enough, Rowling has acknowledged Shakespeare's Macbeth as an inspiration for the prophecy).

The same can apply to Demona and Macbeth. At the time of the spell's casting, they were already great warriors, and with unlimited time to practice, they would become even greater. So it is highly unlikely that anyone else would kill them. Yet based on the events of their falling out, an intense hatred blossomed between them, one that would keep them hunting each other and make it inevitable that one would eventually kill the other. And since Macbeth heard the Weird Sisters' pronouncement, he believed that he could not die without killing Demona. It never would have even occurred to him to jump off a tall building and see what happened, because he believed that it would fail. Thus, the prophecy has the added bonus of controlling any possible suicidal tendencies Demona or Macbeth might develop by telling them it's impossible to kill themselves, since while Luna's side of their personality may simply be prophesying, Selene's needs them to survive for their future plans. Plus, even if Macbeth thought it would work, he probably would still feel the need to settle the score with Demona first. With all of that in mind, it is not hard for the avatar of fate to predict that one of them will end up killing the other, and the fact that she makes the prediction helps it to occur.

The question then is this: Is there a difference between saying something cannot happen and saying it will not happen? Suppose a man plans to stay home one day. Can we then say that it is impossible that he will get in his car and drive to another state that day? Let's say it's early in the morning, so he's got plenty of time. He's got a full tank of gas. He's not in Alaska or Hawaii, so there are connecting states he could go to. However, he has no desire at all to do so. Without that desire, it simply will not happen. We can then say that it is impossible. Now the obvious objection is that one never knows for sure what might happen, and if an emergency came up, he might have to leave the state that very day. For that reason, we distinguish between what can happen and what will happen- something can happen if it would happen provided the will to do it existed. If we knew for sure that the man would choose not to leave that day, it would then be fair to say that it was impossible for him to leave. Likewise, if we know with certainty that Demona and Macbeth will not die until one destroys the other, then we can say that it is impossible for anything else to happen.

This theory may seems very complicated at first, but if you take the time to think about it, it makes more sense than most other explanations out there. Rather than rely on vague magic powers and convoluted rules of "what if Demona were smashed in the day?" this theory eliminates all of the guesswork and gives an answer without the ambiguity; one that ultimately is simple and inevitable, yet firmly in the hands of the players. By thinking of Weird Sisters' spell as a prophecy, we can help resolve the fate vs. free will argument. Luna is an embodiment of fate, and so she is able to make predictions in the future, yet they are based simply on reading the characters of the subjects. While the prophecy that Demona and Macbeth will eventually die when one kills the other is a pronouncement of fate, it is only made true because of Demona's lack of trust and irresponsibility and Macbeth's lust for vengeance. The same could be said of the prophecy that Macbeth, Lulach, and Canmore would all become king- it wasn't hard to see that Duncan's paranoia would lead to him moving against Macbeth, a confrontation which would ultimately lead to Macbeth's ascension.

Greg responds...

But what if you paint an elephant pink? (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Otherwise I DO think you're on the right track.

Response recorded on January 16, 2007

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Todd Jensen writes...

Thanks for the "Ill Met By Moonlight" ramble, Greg! (And it's a pity that people keep on misreading it, as well. Maybe they need to read a little more Shakespeare and come across the original line. :))

I'm at a slight disadvantage at reviewing this episode, since I missed "Ill Met By Moonlight" the first time that it aired (or, more accurately, wasn't able to see it properly, since I'd just gotten a new television set that didn't have an antenna yet and so wasn't able to make out the picture very well). By the time that I did get to see it properly, I'd also already seen "The Gathering" and so got to meet Oberon and Titania through it instead. (It also meant that I already knew that Titania and Anastasia Renard were the same person, and since I'd already seen "Walkabout" by this time, knew therefore what Titania was talking about when she made that remark to Goliath at the end.)

You didn't say much about the Weird Sisters in this episode, but there were two small bits about them that stick with me. The first is that, when Oberon's burying the Avalon clan alive, the Sisters exchange little smiles with each other in a way that makes them look almost like a school tattletale who's just gotten someone sent to the principal's office and is gloating about it.

The second (which I think is especially intriguing) comes at the end, when Selene (the Sister representing vengeance) is clearly angry over the way that events have turned out, but Luna (the Sister representing fate) holds up one hand silently. Fate restraining Vengeance - that definitely makes me wonder what was going on there, especially since you said that the Sisters still had other plots brewing. Pity that we'll probably never find out now what they were.

I don't know for certain whether I was expecting Oberon and Titania to show up in the series, but I'm glad that they got in; it would be odd if they were only to be mentioned but never actually appear.

This was definitely one of the more "Shakespeare-heavy" episodes. Oberon, Titania, and the Weird Sisters are on-stage characters, Puck is mentioned, the title is taken from Shakespeare, there's a gargoyle named Ophelia, plus the lines "The game is afoot" (I wonder how many people know that Shakespeare wrote that long before Sir Arthur Conan Doyle created Sherlock Holmes) and "All's well that ends well".

Ophelia raised a good point about the issue of Oberon having a prior claim over Avalon. (Indeed, one question that I've seen raised once in the comment room is why the Avalon clan stayed so long on Avalon; the initial reason was to escape Constantine, but since he was overthrown only two years after they fled, that reason was now moot. On the other hand, anti-gargoyle sentiment didn't die with Constantine - not by a long shot - so I can see why it would want a hiding place that humans could never reach.)

The notion of casting the iron into the shape of a bell worked for me, and fitted in nicely with faerie lore, where the faerie-folk couldn't stand bells. (This seems to have been for religious reasons in the original stories - the bells in question were church bells and the faeries were imagined as being old gods dwindled with the waning of paganism - but here the concept used instead is that the bell is made out of iron.) I'll confess that I don't know enough metallurgy to recognize that the forging of the bell wasn't all that accurate. I also liked Titania's clever little word-play with "ring" in giving the clue.

Good explanation for why Oberon was acting in the same way towards mortals that he'd condemned Titania for acting a thousand years earlier. (Though I did wonder when I first saw the episode why Oberon hadn't had any problems with another mortal - King Arthur - sleeping on Avalon. Of course, the fact that Arthur was spending all that time in an enchanted slumber in an out-of-the-way location like the Hollow Hill would have made that different - as well as what you mentioned about Oberon owing Merlin a favor.)

Thanks again for the ramble. I'm looking forward to the "Future Tense" one next.

Greg responds...

Re: the Weird Sisters plots. I wouldn't say never. Especially now that we've got the comic book.

Response recorded on November 01, 2006

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Francois Ferland writes...

Hello again Greg.

I just have a few observations about Oberon and his children.

1. I'll admit to being one of the many people who was very disappointed by the way the Sisters acted in the "Avalon" trilogy. I've read all your explainations in the archive, but although it makes sense and I can accept it on an intellectual level... it still doesn't feel right. I've been asking myself why, and I think I've found an answer or sorts...

I think what was really intriguing about the sisters was the whole mystic surrounding them throughout the series up until the "Avalon" three-parters. They always seemed to have some higher goal in mind, like they were an integral part of destiny (you'll probably say they are, but I meant in a more intentional way). Their words of wisdom when talking to Goliath and friends in "City of stone" were especially touching. They appeared almost like moral guardians of some sort.

When we see them again in "Avalon", we find out their primary motive has been revenge all along. Maybe it wasn't the whole reason for their actions, but it certainly felt like that. And thus, their whole involvement in "City of stone" felt like cruel mindgames and very subtle manipulation.

Hum, you know, maybe the thing that makes it hard to accept is the fact the we, the audience, uncounsciously feel like WE were cheated and manipulated. Like Goliath and the gang, we were fooled from the beginning and we have a hard time accepting the truth, thus we prefer to think that the Sisters' characters were simply cheapened.

The human mind works in mysterious ways...

2. Oberon's children were forbidden by his law from interfering in the affairs of mortals. Those who took on a human form were obviously not a problem, since they were limited by their bodies just like every other mortal. I suppose assuming any other mortal form, like Gargoyle or simply animal, would also be okay.

Of course, a great many actually took on more fantastic forms, like Banshee and Anansi.

I've noticed that most of those we saw never really showed the full extent of magical powers that feys posess, although they often exhibited at least SOME kind of magical abilities.

a) Are they limiting (or customizing) their power in relation to their "character" of the moment, like Banshee having a powerful voice, or Odin having control over the elements? Because since they'd be limiting themselves, they wouldn't really be using "fey magic" against mortals and as such, wouldn't go against Oberon's law.

b) This one's technical, so if you don't feel like answering it, no problem.

You often said that the Third race don't have a true, definite form, being shape-shifters. Of course, some DO have a form they obviously prefer and we tend to associate it with their true form but "that assumption is faulty" as you would say.

I've been thinking about their vulnerability to iron, and how assuming a mortal bodies removes that limitation (as well as any magical power except reverting back). So Anastasia can touch iron but can't do any magic. That's simple. Any other mortal form would do the same.

Now, is it possible for a fey to assume a non-existing form, like Anansi as a giant spider, which would have some innate powers unique to this body (so it would have no other powers except the one of that form and the possibility to change back to "pure fey") while being immune to iron, pretty much like a mortal body?

And if you don't know and don't want to think about it, just say so. I'll understand :)

Greg responds...

1. Totally agree... and that was my intent. I guess I just didn't count on HOW strongly people would feel along those lines... and how they would then translate that into disappointment with our execution. Or maybe we just sucked.

2a. You're assuming that every one of Oberon's Children have the exact same base power that can then translate into anything they choose. That's not the case. Banshee's appearance may or may not be a glamour. But Banshee is Banshee. Banshee isn't some other Oberon's child glamoured and powered as Banshee.

2b. See above. Appearance may be deceiving, but Anansi is Anansi. He is one of Oberon's Children in that form and is thus vulnerable to iron. Now if he shape-shifted himself into a real spider...

Response recorded on April 15, 2005

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Ineyboy writes...

Greg, I absolutely love Gargoyles, almost more than any other cartoon, ever (I'm sure that's been said before, but every fan should say it). I have some ?s for you, but I would like to apologize first if they have been asked previously, as I have not got a chance to read all the FAQ's. I would appreciate it if you could email me (inianj02@yahoo.com) your response, when you get to it. If you prefer to only post them, then I understand. You could say that my ?s may not be directly related, but they are both concerning Goliath's confusion about something.

1) In the beginning of "City of Stone: Part One", who was the Weird Sister referring to when she told Goliath that when he "...forgets that every life is precious..." he is just like "her"? I believe Goliath points to the girl he calls a "terrorist", but the Weird Sister was referring to someone else...Who? (Right after Goliath says this, the 3 sisters disappear; not that you don't know that, but for quick reference)

2) I won't torture you with everyone else's ? in "Ill met by moonlight," but I would like to know something else: At the end of the episode, what favor was Titania referring to when she thanks Goliath for a "favor rendered"?

Greg responds...

1. They were referring to Demona, who is the next person we see.

2. For saving her (and everyone) in "Walkabout".

Response recorded on February 03, 2005

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Billy Kerfoot writes...

Dear Greg,

Hi Mr. Weisman, it's Billy. Man I couldn't believe my eyes
when my first question got posted with my name atop being ready to be answered back by someone like you. I've seen your name by a lot of cartoons so I've known you a lot but boy did I ever think that you and I could get in contact so easily! I know it must be a little strenuous to answer all of these questions on a show that has passed away for quite a while and you'd have to consider your question subscribers your buddies. Well Greg, I want to... I want to be your buddy! I know I might be a little crazy but you are the bomb! I'm glad you can recieve this note.

Oh Greg, if I got too hyper when I asked you my first question which was about a hopeful future for Lexington I'm sorry. I get so much into him a lot when I think about the show. He was the reason I got back into this show because I saw a ToonDisney late night lineup commercial and he looked like a nice guy and all. I still like him as a matter of fact and sometimes I think he's the type of person I've dreamed of being (not counting that nightmarish future guy I mean.) Don't take about what I said about that episode personally I mean it's a little OK. There is something about it that mesmerizes me real good.

I watched this cartoon with my dad when I was a kid on FOX at 6:30 A.M. way back when. I never really paid attention to it however because, well I don't know, I guess I wasn't seeming fit for it. But sometime last year when I heard about this show on ToonDisney I decided to give it a shot. So one night when I stayed up late, I checked it out and Leader of the Pack was on halfway through and guess who stars in that episode... Lexington!

Well Greg questions are why you're here so here I go:

1) I used to think Oberon and Titania were aliens but are they fays like Puck, how many powers do they have, and what are their occupations?

2) Are the Weird Sisters good guys, bad guys, or in between helpers?

Thanks for your time Greg! I hope we'll be calling each other buds soon.

Greg responds...

1. They have magic. What they can do with that magic is limited largely by their store of it and by their imaginations and by the Laws of Oberon himself. As for their occupations, they are the Lord and Lady of Avalon. In her human guise as Anastasia Renard, Titania is also a scientist, but I don't think she's employed by anyone at the moment.

2. All of the above. Check out their archives in ASK GREG for more info.

And thanks for your time, Billy. I hope you're still around to read these answers two years later.

Response recorded on November 04, 2004

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M. Norris writes...

The Weird Sisters - "Avalon" & "City of Stone"

For me, the Sisters orchestrating of Demona and Macbeth's lives has always been about much more than just getting revenge against the Magus, or 'some petty strike on an island' as another fan put it. Certainly revenge was involved as it's in their nature - but had the Sisters not bound Demona and Macbeth, Demona would have died long ago and Xanatos would never have raised Castle Wyvern above the clouds, and the rest just plays out from there. Again the immutable nature of time and fate in the Gargoyles universe is made clear.

I don't think I've seen any comments on this from yourself though, so I am left wondering if no one has caught on to the greater scheme of things here, or maybe I'm just jumping to grand comclusions?

Greg responds...

You're not.

The key, I believe, to understanding the sisters is that they are simultaneously of three minds: those of the Graces, the Furies and the Fates. (And various mythy permutations of each.)

Phoebe represents Grace.
Seline represents Fury.
Luna represents Fate.

But all three are all three.

So cooperating with the Archmage suited their Fury persona directly, but also fit in nicely with the other TWO aspects of their personas.

Response recorded on October 15, 2004

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Christina (CelebornEstel@aol.com) writes...

I've been a fan of Gargoyles for a while and I was wondering what a few characters were based on. The mythology is put into the sotry so well and fits like a puzzle. Anyway, I was wondering who the Weird Sisters and Megus. The mythology of the story is beautiful and the plot is extraordinary. So, That's my question- What were Megus and The Weird Sisters based on?

Greg responds...

The Weird Sisters were based primarily on the Weird Sisters, from William Shakespeare's play MACBETH. They were also influenced by various triple/lunar goddesses from various mythologies, in particular the Graces, The Furies, the Fates/Norns.

The Magus is more of an "original" creation. He begins, I think, as fairly standard D&D wizard material. But I like to believe that he transcends the stereotype.

Response recorded on June 28, 2004

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Entity writes...

How you doing, Greg?

Okay, let's take a look at a hypothetical (this is my disclaimer in case you want to just stop reading now). If things had gone differently, and the show had never moved to ABC, meaning you never left, and Disney offered you 13 more episodes, but made it clear that these 13 would be the LAST 13 the show would get... how would you have approached them? Lord knows you had enough material to make another 13 just in picking up loose threads, let alone new ones such as The Quarrymen. Do you think you would have turned the whole third season into a good-bye like with "The Journey"? Would you have been more optimistic than that and ended it just like seasons one or two? Or would you have tried to wrap it up, like The Goliath Chronicles boys did with "Angels in the Night"?

Greg responds...

I don't think life COMES TO AN END. So I would not have attempted a full-on closure tone, as "Angels" did.

I would have, most likely, done the best 13 stories in my arsenal at that time. In continuity, as before, but 13 stand-alone episodes that were the best I could come up with, starting with "The Journey" and ending with an episode (like "Reawakening", "Hunter's Moon, Part Three" and "The Journey") that contained a sense of open-ended closure. A sense that even though we're going away for a time and some amount of loose ends (though surely not all) have been tied up in bows, that life goes on.

In between Journey and that Open-Ended Closure Episode, I would have done 11 other stories that picked up on the loose ends that were screaming the loudest to be addressed. One of which, certainly would have been the Illuminati. One would have been Brooklyn. One would have been the Weird Sisters. &tc.

Response recorded on June 15, 2004

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Arystella writes...

Dear Greg,
I'm not sure how to word this question, but have you ever heard of wyrd? Its an Old word, {Yeah, like others aren't!
:-)} But anyways it is the original spelling/meaning of "weird" sisters. . .
Just wanted to let you know.
;-)

Greg responds...

I'm aware of it, but thanks.

Response recorded on April 02, 2004

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Anonymous writes...

Anonymous writes...
Are the weird sisters the Horare? Hesperides? Fates? Norns? Morrigan?Harpies?Graces?

Greg responds...

I think I've answered this.

They are the Fates/Norns and the Furies and a third thing that I've chosen not to reveal at this time.

recorded on 11-29-01

But you never revealed if they were the Hesperides or the Sirens. So mind telling us if they were?

Greg responds...

I specifically said that they are three things. The Fates/Norns, the Furies and (I've since revealed) the Graces. So the answer is, NO -- at least to the Sirens. (I don't know what the Hesperides are, but unless they fit into the category of Fates, Furies and Graces, then the answer is no to them too.)

Response recorded on June 04, 2003

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Wingedbeast writes...

Questions regarding three of the Fair Folk

1. After the Wierd Sisters were banished by a simple parlor trick, they rather easily accepted the ARchmage's suggestion for help. Why that as opposed to just using Avalon's magic to destroy the clan?

Why put that much trust in a single human?

Did they even hedge their bets with attempts of their own to remove the clan?

2. When Odin went through his entire deal of getting his eye back, why didn't he, at one point, attempt identifying himself as Odin before threatening a Gargoyle's protectorate? It seems he'd tried everything but the truth before threatening Elisa... and then the truth at the same time, so what really could it have cost him to identify himself before going to threats?

3. While Oberon may have seen himself as being well in the right for wanting to rid Avalon of the mortals, why didn't he think to identify himself as Oberon: Rightful Lord of Avalon? Seems to be pretty much an obvious thing that he may have missed.

Basing this next question on the idea that Avalon wants the humans and Gargoyle clan to remain (or else why bring the world tour group back to Avalon just in time?). Why did Avalon obey Oberon's commands to attack Goliath, Angela, and Gabrial?

Greg responds...

1a. Well, I could say, "Why not?" But the not-quite-as-short answer had to do with their own banishment from the island by Oberon. By becoming "servants" to the Archmage, it enabled them to embark on the island at his command. Otherwise, how do they attack the Magus, et al, when they're forbidden to set foot on the island. There's also a longer answer and a very long answer, but I'm not getting into those now.

1b. They didn't.

1c. They have three plans in play and removing the clan is only a part of each.

2. Chalk it up, as he did, to recent inexperience at dealing with mortals.

3. I believe he did.

3a. That's a big assumption. The Island didn't bring the travellers back. To return to Avalon, the travellers use a spell. In any case, what the island wants and needs, doesn't change the fact that the island is soaked in magical energy, which Oberon is a master at utilizing.

Response recorded on May 22, 2003

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Aaron writes...

Re: The Weird Sisters.

"Their tri_part mission."

Luna's log, Stardate: Um... It's hard to tell from Avalon.

These are the adventures of the Weird Sisters, our tri-part mission, to seek out new life, and play mind games with it... To find new ways to plague Demona... To boldly never give a straight answer to anything!

I have entirely too much free time.

And, so this'll have a question in it, is Puck's magic flute connected to the opera "The Magic Flute"?

http://www.pvponline.com

Greg responds...

Maybe. Haven't seen that opera.

Response recorded on April 24, 2003

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Oberon writes...

In one of the Avalon episodes the Weird Sisters sais something like "We make no bargains with sorserers" so my questions are
1: Is this because they dislike magic using mortals?
2: If so, why?
3: Do the Children of Oberon feel that way in general?

Greg responds...

1 & 2. They have a bit of contempt for mortals in general, and probably magic-users in particular -- since they seem to be infringing on the Children's turf.

3. Many do, I'd think.

Response recorded on April 23, 2003

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Peter Mason writes...

Anonymous writes...
The Weird Sisters had Demona and MacBeth steal Coldstone so Goliath wouldn't notice the disappearance of the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and the Grimorum and so he wouldn't go looking for them, but what I don't understand is why were the Weird Sisters afraid that Goliath would go looking for the talisman? I mean he'd never find them considering that the Sisters would have taken the talismans to the Archmage on Avalon where Goliath could never reach them.

Greg responds...

But Goliath did reach them, so the potential was there.

In fact, one could easily argue that the Archmage's greatest mistake was delaying for Goliath's arrival.

recorded on 10-17-01

Are you saying that the Sisters through their connection to fate foresaw the possiblity that Goliath would come to Avalon and had MacBeth and Demona steal Coldstone to try to prevent it from happening?

Greg responds...

Not that I'm disagreeing -- because your not off the mark -- but I think you're overthinking it.

Goliath presented a potential threat, so he was misdirected.

Response recorded on April 03, 2003

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Chapter XXXV: "Avalon, Part Two"

Time to Ramble...

"PART TWO"
Director: Dennis Woodyard
Writer: Lydia Marano
Story Editor: Brynne Chandler Reaves

I guess you guys were used to longer multi-parters from us, so you probably didn't think this was the last part when you saw Part Two come up after the title. I tried something different at the end though. Instead of writing "To be continued" I had them put down "To be concluded". It seemed (at least in my head) to increase tension to know that the next part would be the last.

I've been told by people that out of context, this episode is incomprehensible. I hope it's not quite that bad, but I will say that unlike the rest of our eps, I felt that multi-parter eps don't quite need to stand alone in the same way.

Still with all the time travel stuff, it's very complex. I remember Lydia having to come into my office after her first draft and needing me to diagram the time travel for her. The loop that the Archmage takes. I love it. But I guess it's not that easy to follow.

Anyway, this ep was designed to be the second part of a tryptich. This is the one where we focus on our villains and bring them all up to date, just as in part one, we focused on our heroes. All gearing to a MAJOR BATTLE coming in Part Three.

THE EGGS

Picking up where Part One left off, Elisa looks at Angela, Gabriel and Boudicca and says: "These are the eggs?" I love her tone there.

Guardian: "Sorry, I always call them that." It was a cheat to buy us, at least with some percentage of our audience, the shock value of expecting eggs and finding fully grown gargs and beasts instead. Still, I believe that a guy like Tom, dubbed "Guardian of the Eggs" would continue to use that term to refer to his kids, even after they are grown.

Goliath is initially shocked that the gargs have names. Angela says the standard human response: "How else would we tell each other apart?" This was done intentionally to both cover the issue of non-garg naming (which I still think is neat, but which is often a massive pain) and to indicate that these are gargs raised by humans.

BEACH FIGHT

So I'm in my office one day, after the script to "Avalon, Part Two" has gone final. And Supervising Producer Frank Paur and Producer/Director Dennis Woodyard come in. Frank hates the script. Dennis is calmer, but he seems to clearly agree with Frank, more or less.

I'm annoyed because it's VERY late in the game for them to be giving me these kind of notes. Things get heated between me and Frank.

I yell something like: "Well, what do you want me to do?!!!"

And he yells something like: "We need some action! Like a fight on the Beach with the Archmage!!"

And I start to object for about a second. Then I go, "Oh, yeah. A fight on the beach with the Archmage. That'd be cool. Would that fix it?"

"Uh. Yeah."

And that was it. Our fights were always like that. We always only wanted to make it better. He'd get worked up, but the solution wound up being simple and when push came to shove (we never actually pushed and shoved by the way) we agreed on nearly everything.

It was also good to have Dennis' calming influence. Frank and I would go momentarily nutty and Dennis would always maintain.

So anyway, after the fact we added the memorable fight on the beach. Now I can't imagine the episode without it. It forced us to trim down some the Archmages travels (cause we were already long) but it definitely improved the episode.

I think, not sure, but I think I wrote that fight because it came so late in the game. It's also possible, I might have taken it back to Brynne and/or Lydia to write. I really don't remember anymore.

Either way, there are some great lines:

Goliath: "Don't be too insulted!" I love how he goes nuts here. We really get a reminder of his warrior-ness.

Archmage: "Don't crow too loudly, after all, what have you accomplished: you beat up a beach." You beat up a beach. That's one of my favorite lines in the whole series.

Archmage: "At dawn you all will die. Get used to it!"

Tom: "Let's get out of here before the very air attacks us!"

The fight itself is pretty cool too. I like how Bronx and Boudicca immediately team up. I like the symbolic nature of the Archmage growing wings, turning to stone and then shattering. I think that was a board-artist's addition. I don't remember seeing that in the script. (And I'm too lazy to stand up and check right now.)

At the end of the fight, my five year old son Benny asked: "Why can't they glide to the castle?" I had to explain the flight rules.

ANGELA & GABRIEL

Elisa slides up to Goliath: "Angela sort of looks like Demona, except her coloring is different. Exactly whose daughter is she?" Again, I love Salli's reading here. That need to know. The jealousy. The feeling for Goliath -- who dodges the question by saying that all children belong to the clan.

But of course Elisa knows. Knows something that I believe never occured to her before. Sure, she knew that Goliath and Demona had been mates, lovers. But she didn't let her mind traverse to the next logical step. Parents. Together. Goliath and Demona.

And of course, the audience knows it too, I hope. It was never meant to be a secret to anyone but Angela who her biological parents are. These lines also served to point that out.

On the other hand, we didn't make a big deal of Gabe's bio-parentage. But I wanted it to be semi-clear that his folks were Othello and Desdemona (Coldstone and Coldfire). Anyone get that at first viewing?

REUNIONS

Everyone returns to Oberon's Palace. There are many injured and Gabe is apologetic. As Leader, he feels responsible. But there was 'never any need to hone our combat skills' before this.

Tom & Katharine are reunited. Elisa, the cop, picks up on the human dynamics, the relationships, immediately. She sees the Magus' reaction to their reunion.

I also really like the exchange between the Princess and Goliath.

K: "This is more than I could have hoped for."
G: "What you've done for the eggs is more than I could have dreamed of"

SLEEPING KING

We kept dropping hints. He's mentioned by the Magus, but the conversation moves quickly on.

Later, the Weird Sisters mentioned him. The Archmage is surprised to hear he's not a myth, causing Seline to say her famous: "All things are true." line. The Archmages promise to kill the king later.

And Elisa brings the guy up at the end. This policy was me trying to play fair and make his awakening in Part Three not seem artificial. But also not to allow the guy to distract from the matter at hand.

Of course, most of THIS crowd must have known the s-king was a ref to KING ARTHUR. Particularly when the Hollow Hill ref was thrown in too. But did anyone not know on first viewing?

LOOSE ENDS

This was an episode for tying up Loose Ends in a big way. Solving some mysteries.

Why did the Weird Sisters do what they did? (At least objectively.)

Why were Demona and Macbeth working together in "High Noon"? (Elisa: "They hate each other." Guardian: "I saw no sign of that.")

And how did the Archmage survive?

Tom unwittingly hints at the truth when he says that the Archmage seemed to be able to be in two places at once.

Now let's reveal...

WEIRD SISTERS

Wow! Did we get negative feedback from fans when we played the Sisters as villains here. Of course, I always had it in my head that the Sisters had three aspects. Grace, Vengeance and Fate. Sometimes one aspect is ascendent, but there is always a touch of all three in anything they do. But after the Sisters' Fateful appearances in "City of Stone", many fans rebelled at the notion that the objective reason they did all those things was for simple petty vengeance here in "Avalon". Oh, well.

[When Benny saw the Sisters for the first time, he said "Weird Sisters" with an interesting tone of awe. They're his favorites. But he didn't comment on them being bad guys here.]

The sisters have some nice lines...

L: "What is time to an immortal."
Phoebe: "This is true." (in ref to what cannot be broken can be bent).

ARCHMAGESES

Okay, this was just fun for me. In many ways the origin of much of this was the flat out talent of David Warner. He brought such life to the underwritten (and clichéd) part of the Archmage in "Long Way to Morning" that I just knew I'd have to bring him back. Many of the events of "Vows", "City of Stone", "High Noon" etc. were all geared toward bringing him back as a real THREAT!!

Yet with all this, I didn't want to forget the character's roots. We tried to set a balance between his clichés and his new power.

Think about it. The Archmage+ (as we called him in the script), had only been plussed for about a day. Still he's full of arrogance. His power hasn't raised him above that hybris nor above the thirst for vengeance nor above gloating or above impatience. That's his flaw, but also the fun, I think.

And of course, David. Wow.

Praise for Salli Richardson as Elisa. For Kath Soucie as Princess Katharine and all three Weird Sisters. For Frank Welker as Bronx and Boudicca.

But this Archmage stuff here is a tour de force, I think. David just went through, playing both characters. Both versions of himself. Keep in mind, he hadn't been privy to all that the writers had planned. He had come in for his small parts in both "Long Way" and "Vows". Now suddenly, he's this guy(s). Amazing.

"Do you know what to do?"
"I should. I watched you do it."

"Show some dignity."

"I could put you back where I found you."
"No, no." (I love that no, no. So tiny and fearful.)

"Not where. When."

"If you don't know, don't guess."

"The book must remain in play."

"Try to keep up."

"We're not doing her any favors."

"The rules that cannot be broken can surely be bent."

"Nine hundred and seventy-five YEARS??!!"

"I hadn't thought that far in advance."

"What am I supposed to do, eat it?!"

"Now I understand."

"As it did. As it must. As it always will!"

All great fun.

FLAWS

All these episodes were being produced simultaneously. All in various stages of production. So inconsistencies were bound to happen.

The Egg boats are messed up here. Demona's model in her flashback. Etc.

And storywise, what's the deal with Macbeth? I can see why the Archmage wants to include his former apprentice Demona in his plans. He felt betrayed by her, and is glad not to be doing her any favors by enslaving her.

But Macbeth?

Okay, it's not a true flaw. Macbeth is included because the 'plan of the Archmage' -- birthed whole from the timestream without the Archmage ever actually coming up with it independently (though he takes credit) -- included Macbeth.

It is the provence of Luna, not Seline, at work.

But still, I'd have liked to have been able to figure out some connection between the Archmage and Macbeth so that he wouldn't question the boy's inclusion. Thankfully, the Archmage+ is so arrogant, he takes credit and thus never questions. It occurs to me now, that I could have made a connection between Mac and his ancestors, all related to Katharine and Malcolm. Oh, well.

CAPTIONS

These became fun for me. Adding Captions indicating place and time is one of the very last steps in production. So I'm in there for the "On-Line" with Jeff Arthur, our post-production supervisor, and I'm just indulging...

Sure we start with...

"Scotland, 984 A.D."

But pretty soon we're at "YESTERDAY" and "SIX HOURS AGO" and "ONE MINUTE AGO" and finally "NOW".

It still makes me smile.

POWERING UP

So the Archmage gets the eye. Power. But he's still an idiot. He needs wisdom. He eats the book, which I always thought was really creepy and cool. Now he understands. Now we truly have two Archmage+es. But they can't coexist forever. Aside from how complicated that would be to choreograph, and aside from the fact that the timestream needs the younger of the two to fulfill his role....

They also couldn't coexist because both are too arrogant.

So we repeat the scene of departure to close the circle and tack on: "Finally. I thought he'd never leave."

BATTLE FLASHBACK

We get to see a new clan awake from stone. I hoped that was fun.

Ophelia appears (pre-injury). She looked way cool. For all those people who thought that Gabe and Angie were a couple, take a look at the way Gabe is holding Ophelia and looking at her after she's injured.

LAYING PIPE

In addition to the Sleeping King, we were also laying pipe for our whole fourth tier WORLD TOUR. Tom says: "Avalon dropped me in your laps." He credits Avalon with sending him to Goliath.

The Magus declares that he is without magic and useless. Katharine rebels at that: "Don't say it, and don't think it!" She loves him. Just not the way he wanted her to love him.

Bronx and Boudicca want to go with Goliath.

Elisa asks about the Sleeping King...

And Goliath, Angela and Gabriel take off on a stealth attack.

And we immediately see that the Archmage knows they're coming.

Uh oh.

As the Archmage says... "[We've layed all the damn pipe we could possibly need and more], Now the fun really begins!"

To be concluded...

And that's my ramble. Where's yours?


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Entity writes...

You've revealed that Luna, Phoebe, and Selene represent three different 'motivations.' You said these motivations are Fate, Revenge, and Compassion (it's fairly obvious from the show what Phoebe stands for, and you've said yourself in previous ASK GREG responses that Phoebe is "the nice one").

So, why do the Sisters harbor these three agendas of all agendas? If the answer is somewhere along the lines of what The Phoenix Gate's origin is (i.e. only the Timestream, or God, knows), then what were your behind-the-scenes reasons?

Greg responds...

This is more an issue of feel than logic to me, which may be disappointing.

But I feel like these three 'agendas' as you call them strike a balance.

Do we take action or does action take us?

Do we seek redress or offer mercy?

Can we comprehend the universe?

It just works for me.

And, hell, since I've all but revealed it anyway.

When Luna is ascendent the Sisters are the Fates or Norns (or any similar threesome).

When Seline is ascendent the Sisters are the Furies (or any similar threesome).

When Phoebe is ascendent the Sisters are the Graces (or any similar threesome).

Response recorded on November 29, 2001

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Oberon writes...

You've said before that the Weird Sisters are conflicting forces stuggling for supremacy so were the forces, Good (Pheobe), Evil (Selene) and Neutrality (Luna) (i think i got their names right)? These seem to reflect in their individual personalities.

Also, you said that the Sisters three personality traits showed that thet'de be playing different parts in the series.

Greg responds...

No. Phoebe isn't "good". And Seline isn't 'evil'. And Luna is far from 'neutral'.

You're attaching value judgments to their traits.

Response recorded on November 29, 2001

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Galvatron writes...

Are the weird sisters the Horare? Hesperides? Fates? Norns? Morrigan?Harpies?Graces?

Todd, could you delete that last post since I forgot to put my name on it?

Greg responds...

deja vu

Response recorded on November 29, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Are the weird sisters the Horare? Hesperides? Fates? Norns? Morrigan?Harpies?Graces?

Greg responds...

I think I've answered this.

They are the Fates/Norns and the Furies and a third thing that I've chosen not to reveal at this time.

Response recorded on November 29, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

The Weird Sisters had Demona and MacBeth steal Coldstone so Goliath wouldn't notice the disappearance of the Eye of Odin, the Phoenix Gate and the Grimorum and so he wouldn't go looking for them, but what I don't understand is why were the Weird Sisters afraid that Goliath would go looking for the talisman? I mean he'd never find them considering that the Sisters would have taken the talismans to the Archmage on Avalon where Goliath could never reach them.

Greg responds...

But Goliath did reach them, so the potential was there.

In fact, one could easily argue that the Archmage's greatest mistake was delaying for Goliath's arrival.

Response recorded on October 17, 2001

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Mooncat writes...

Who are the biological parents of the Wierd Sisters

Greg responds...

No one you've met in the show.

Response recorded on October 10, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Why is it in City of Stone the Weird Sisters appearing different to different people? Was it caused by a spell?
Why didn¡¯t we see them using this technique in post-CoS episodes?
Could Oberon and Titania do it? Have they done it?

Greg responds...

1. They strove to make each individual 'comfortable' with their appearance.

1a. Magic, anyway.

2. Just because YOU didn't see it doesn't mean the characters didn't.

3. Potentially.

3a. Perhaps.

Response recorded on October 10, 2001

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Anonymous writes...

Who is more powerful Weird Sisters or Puck?

Greg responds...

The Hulk is more powerful, because as he gets madder he gets stronger. But the Thing can still beat him if he keeps his wits about him.

(Haven't I made this point already?)

Response recorded on September 11, 2001


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