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How many seasons would you have planned for Gargoyles and its Spin-offs to realize your own vision?
2. Bad Guys
3. Time Dancer
4. Dark Ages
5. Gargoyles 2198
6. Heroes of Ulster
7. New Olympians
1. As many as possible until the series caught up to Gargoyles 2198.
2. As many as possible until the premise resolved or the series caught up to Gargoyles 2198, whichever came first.
3. As many as possible until Brooklyn's journey catches up to his return with his family to Gargoyles.
4. As many as possible until we catch up to the Wyvern Massacre in Gargoyles.
5. As many as possible.
6. As many as possible until the premise is resolved or until the series caught up to Gargoyles 2198.
7. As many as possible until the series caught up to Gargoyles 2198.
8. As many as possible until the series caught up to Gargoyles 2198.
Rewatched "The New Olympians" on DVD today.
Continuing the "hunting" theme in "Gargoyles" that I've paid closer attention to this time around, I noticed that Ekidne described the New Olympians' ancestors as "hunted". (I also spotted a New Olympian extra who looked a lot like traditional depictions of Artemis/Diana, the goddess of the hunt - though I think I'm reading too much into that.)
Goliath's words to Angela about how they cannot wage war on an entire city remind me of his words to Demona in "Awakening Part Five" of how he cannot wage war upon an entire world.
Also intentional. I love those kinds of callbacks.
I just wanted to know what kind of stuff you read as a kid that got you interested in the whole mythological genre. Are there any good books you recommend, and are there any you read as a kid that you just couldn't put down?
D'aulaire's Norse Gods and Giants and D'aulaire's Greek Myths started me on the path to loving mythology. Mary Renault's The King Must Die and The Bull from the Sea were also influential, as was Mary Stewart's tetralogy about Merlin, King Arthur and Mordred. Also Roger Lancelyn Green's King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table. There were many others, too. But those got me started.
1) New Olympians hate and fear humans and they respect gargoyles. So how do they feel about the Third Race?
2) Are the New Olympians aware of their origins? By that I mean, do they know that they are a hybrid race of the Children of Mab and mortal humans/animals?
3) So Boreas decided that Elisa would have to remain on New Olympus in order to keep their secret. This seems a little short sighted on Boreas' part. I mean, no sooner had this happened did Elisa almost get lynched on the street. Did he really feel that Elisa's presence could be tolerated by the other N.O?
4) When was the last time any of the New Olympians had any contact with the N.O gargoyles clan? From I've heard, that clan might be the most isolated clan of the series. I mean do they ever in fact have any contact with anyone beyond themselves? Do they have or ever had, even one "Elisa" of their own?
5) So New Olympians can develop their own powers. Is Boreas the "most" powerful, as the "Oberon" of the new Olympians?
1. Probably suspicious.
2. Up to a point.
3. Her presence in prison? Yes, he did.
4. No Spoilers.
5. He's powerful. Whether he's MOST powerful is debatable.
Greg: Wanted to say thank you for shaping my childhood! I read Shakespeare and Malory directly because of Gargoyles! I'm grown now and I teach children. Thanks for your influence and your wonderful series! Please keep producing more Gargoyles stories!
1) Why didn't we see any New Olympians at The Gathering? (Oberon seemed intent to include Alex, another mixed-human fey.)
I think the New Olympians and the Children of Mab had a falling out long ago.
I have some New Olympian-related questions.
If the New Olympian character Boreas bears some resemblance to Zeus in terms of appearance and role...
a. ....then which actual Olympian in Greek mythology would Boreas' sons (Kalais and Xetes) bear resemblance to?
b. ....are there other New Olympians (other than the ones seen on the Gargoyles cartoon) that bear any resemblance to the actual Olympians of Greek Mythology, and if so, what are their names (if they don't have any)?
b. No Spoilers.
I'm just filled with Gargoyles questions today, so heres another one.
You've said before that the New Olympians, being decendants of Children of Oberon/Human hybrids, don't use Children of Oberon (henceforth I'm going to refer to them as "Fae," although I know thats not technically accurate) magic in the traditional sense, but rather have internalized it into individual "powers."
1) My question is regarding Fox. The only time we've seen her use Fae magic was in the form of an energy blast. Was/is that her "power," or, given the proper training, would she have had powers (less than or equal to) a pure-bred Fae?
2) Also, Alexander seems to be able to access (full?) Fae abilities, including an extreamly long life-span. Is that because he is only a couple generations away from a pure-bred Fae, or because he is decended from such a powerfull Fae as Queen Titanya? (I want to ask if his decendants would be as powerfull as he is, or turn out like the New Olympians, but that would be a "spoiler request," so I won't. Unless you're feeling generous, then I am).
Okay, I didn't say the New Olympians were Children of Oberon/Human hybrids (though there were some of these). I said the New Olympians were Children of Oberon/Mortal hybrids.
And, of course, we NEVER use the term Fae in the series.
1. If we're talking theoretically, it's hard to say. If you're asking me specifically: No Spoilers.
But generally, the magic of the Children is more art than science, so it's difficult to quantify.
You said once that Sphinx, of the New Olympians, comes from a big family.
1. Are Sphinx's family sphinxes? Or are they a wide range of different phenotypes instead? I tend to think the latter, since she's the one named Sphinx.
2. If you can share any more details about members of Sphinx's family (names, personalities, appearances, roles), would you please?
1. SPOILER REQUEST.
2. I can, but I won't. Sorry.
Thanks for taking the time for our questions! I was just watching "The New Olympians" episode of Gargoyles and as the camera pans the city there is a satellite dish on one of the buildings. I understand if you don't have an answer, but are they receiving signals from our (human's) satellites or do they have one of their own?
I don't recall. Sorry.
I finally got my Bad Guys paperback! With all my homework I don't have time to write a review yet, but I do want to ask you a question or two about the New Olympians, if you don't mind.
1. After the (New) Olympians founded New Olympus to escape human persecution, how long did gargoyles still survive in Greece?
a. Were gargoyles still alive in Greece in the time of Augustus Caesar and the Humility Spell? b. During Byzantine times? c. During Ottoman times?
2. How long did the halfling "monsters" of Classical myth (centaurs, minotaurs, snake-people, etc.) survive in Europe after New Olympus was founded?
a. Were any half-breed "monsters" still alive in Europe in the time of Augustus Caesar? b. During Byzantine times? c. During Ottoman times?
I don't have exact dates on this stuff, and I'm not ruling out possibilities at this stage.
I have another question about the New Olympians, halflings, and the Law of Oberon (related to what Random Fan asked about the Law). In the Gathering, Oberon showed that his law is applied and interpreted differently for different halflings. Fox is too human because she has grown up with a mortal life, so the Law applies to her as to a mortal. But Titania has permission to interfere in Alex's life, perhaps because he is newborn and has not yet grown up to be human, but has the potential to be or become something else.
How does Oberon interpret and enforce his law in relation to the New Olympians? Are (or were, before the Gathering) the Third Race permitted to interfere in the lives of New Olympian halflings, or does Oberon view them as mortal and therefore not open to (unsolicited) interference?
The New Olympians ARE mortal.
On the subject of halflings, I have been wondering for a long while how halflings that are part human and part animal (like the New Olympians) are born. My understanding from the archives is that a member of the Third Race can only breed with a mortal by assuming a truly mortal, flesh-and-blood body of the same species as the mortal they want to breed with. If this is correct, how does a mortal, with a Child of Oberon in a truly mortal body of the same species, end up with a child which does not look like the parents? For example, if a human and a Child of Oberon in a completely human body, like Anastasia, had children, how would the children look like anything except normal human beings? Or if a Child of Oberon took on a mortal horse form and mated with a mortal horse, wouldn't the offspring all look like normal horses? For example, how were the first centaurs, or the first minotaurs, born?
Fair questions... maybe they're second generation... since Fox clearly has magical power...
Or maybe you're putting to DEFINING a limit on the Children, given that their powers and abilities are all about loopholes half the time.
It seems the more I read the archives (now that I've discoverd them)the more questions I have. The one that plagues me now is about an answer you gave in response to whether Halflings have to adhere to the no medeling rule.
The rule is magically enforced. Oberon doesn't need to know about you to enforce it. You don't need to know about Oberon to have it enforced. But -- as we've seen -- loopholes abound. The trickier you are the easier it is to find loopholes. Bloodline -- or blood purity, so to speak -- has nothing to do with it.
My qustion then is how doesthe rule affect Halfling human relations? Because I havent heard anything about New Olimpus breaking the rules by becomeing part of the U.N, or An older Alex being a big wig in the 2198 spin off. What are a Halflings limits?
What is the question exactly?
How does joining the U.N. magically interfere with anything?
Hey, I've been following Ask Greg on and off since 2001. This is only my second post. Just wanted to say I appreciate you sustaining the fanbase.
1) Were halflings like Merlin or The New Olympians invited to go to Oberon's Gathering? I would think that Oberon's determination in attempting to bring Alex meant that The Gathering would not be limited to "full" fae. But I could be wrong. What's the truth, Greg?
1. Case-by-case. (But in general the New Olympians were not included.) Merlin wasn't there either.
hey greg was just curious about something.ive read a few times that in the Gargoyles universe the Olympian gods(Zeus,Apollo,Hades etc)are all half mortal,seriously?
You've misinterpreted what you've read, confusing the Olympians with the New Olympians.
I have a questions about the original Olympians in the Gargoyles universe. I hope you aren't sick of my curiosity about the Third Race, but the links to mythology are my favorite parts of Gargoyles, since I've always loved mythology.
I was looking in the Archives about the New Olympians, and I found two entries that interested me. In 2000, concerning the New Olympians and their ancestors, when asked about those ancestors who were worshipped as gods, you wrote:
"They weren't actually immortal."
Later in 2001, you wrote:
"The ancestors were the "gods and monsters" of legend. Many of whom were known as the Olympian Gods of Ancient Greek and Roman mythology.
Most of them were of the Children."
I'm sure I am misinterpreting your responses, but I find these two seem contradictory. The 2001 response indicates most of them were "of the Children" but the 2000 response seems to me to mean that most of them were not Children of Mab.
1. With regards to the original 12 Olympians, were most of the 12 Olympians Children of Mab, or just some of them? Or were most of the original 12 Olympians hybrids?
Just some of them.
A few questions about Sphinx (all I know about her is her GargWiki profile and Im dying to know more):
1) Despite her appearance looking very much like an English gargoyle (wings, tail, humanoid body with cat features), she's not actaully a gargoyle, right? She's just pure New Olympian?
2) Can she fly, unlike a gargoyle's glide?
3) Do you think she has the physical strength to carry Terry in the air? (I ask this question because, given how the romance reminds me a lot of Goliath and Elisa, I wonder if we'll ever see Sphinx carrying Terry like Goliath carries Elisa)
4) How fast does she age as compared to a human? And how old is she when she meets Terry?
And, since Im sure Sphinx would be upset if I ignored her Terry, a quick question about him: any idea what kind of boat takes him to New Olympus? I think you've said he's going to sail around the world, so Im gonna guess a sailboat, is that right?
I hope Sphinx and Terry get a chance to have their story told in comic form!
4. I'm not saying.
5. Yes, it's a sailboat.
Yay the queue is open! I'm happy you're taking questions again. (and I'm of course excited to get #6, which I'll be ordering asap). I hope you don't mind questions unrelated to reviewing the comic... those Children of Oberon always make me so curious.
1. a. So Ragnarok already occured in the Gargoyles Universe. When did it happen? (If you don't want to give a year or decade, can you please say what century it happened in?)
b. Did any of the gods survive Ragnarok, other than Odin? If some did, who?
2. You've also told us that the war between the Titans and Olympians was a real event in the Gargoyles Universe. What happened to the defeated Titans afterwards? (I don't want to assume it is the same as the myths, or to ask more specifically for fear it would be an idea)
3. When was Oberon born? (If you don't want to give the year or decade, please say what century?)
1a. Yes, it occured, but no I'm not going to hint at a date (even a century) at this time.
1b. Yes, a few others did. But I'm not revealing who at this time. (Though the myths themselves are a good hint.)
2. I'm not answering this at this time.
When (about what year or decade) did the New Olympians install the "cloaking device" (as Talos calls it) around their island?
Haven't pinpointed that.
How old are Taurus, Boreas and Talos?
Does Sphinx exist currently in Gargoyles or is she yet to be born? If it's the former, how old is she currentlY?
The very first version of Talos was constructed in 1290 B.C.
The rest I'm not answering at this time.
If Terry Chung currently is just a kid in Gargoyes judging by his appearance in issue number four, are we to assume that New Olympians is suppose to take place in the near future in relations to Gargoyles? Was that always planned or is that a recent idea?
If someone BACK THEN had said, yes, let's do New Olympians NOW, I would have jumped at the chance, and Terry would be older than he is. But years past, and giving it some thought, I placed the inciting events of New Olympians later. So it's a RELATIVELY recent idea, but frankly we're talking about a decision I made eight or nine years ago, or something...
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Helios, Kiron, Ekidna and other New Olympians riot over Elisa's presence on their island. Taurus responds by throwing Elisa in jail with the shape-shifting killer Proteus. Goliath attempts to break Elisa out but is instead tricked into releasing Proteus. The shape-shifter imprisons Goliath in his place, then takes on Goliath's form to fool Elisa. They escape together. But when "Goliath" fails to turn to stone at sunrise and reveals his plan to blow up the island, Elisa lures Taurus to Proteus and works with the Security Chief to recapture the shape-shifter. In gratitude for her actions, Boreas releases Elisa. At sundown, the travelers immediately depart for Avalon.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The travelers depart Avalon and land on the hidden island of New Olympus. Taurus, the New Olympian Chief of Security, arrests Elisa - simply for being human. Boreas, the leader of New Olympus, releases Elisa but refuses to allow her to leave the island.
THE NEW OLYMPIANS
(I had written a rather lengthy ramble on this last night, but due to some glitch or other, lost it. So, here I try to recreate that which was lost.)
This episode is always a little difficult for me to watch, mostly because of the unreasoning hatred and bigotry displayed by many of the New Olympians. It "angers the blood" in me, if you will. Things like Helios' "What a foul stench, it must be coming from the human!" just rankle me. I mean, I know that they have legitimate grievances (or, at least, their ancestors had them), and if they had only avoided Elisa, I might be a bit more tolerant. Despite the wrongness of his decision, I can like Boreas because he at least seems to try. Even Taurus, who has the seed of hatred inside him, does not always make decisions based on it, and even breaks up the riot. But the behavior of the rioters and their ringleaders--Ekidna, Kiron, and especially Helios (I don't know why I single him out, but if feels right)...it's just completely inexcusable (and loathsome).
Oddly enough, I don't feel the same way about Proteus, who is arguably more evil than any of the rioters. I mean, this is the guy who performs evil acts BECAUSE they're evil, right? And yet, I enjoy watching him. Why is that? Is it because Proteus does not make any excuses for his evil (at least, not here)? It's like...okay, you watch ANGEL, right Greg? You've seen that episode with that one guy, Billy (I think that was his name), the Hell-freed misogynist who could incite instant and violent hatred for women in any man he touched? (If you haven't, please skip to the next paragraph) It turned out that Angel was immune because he had worked past hate a long time ago, but he admitted that even as Angelus (his evil side) he was never motivated by hatred so much as a perverse sense of glee from inflicting suffering. And while I can actually kind of enjoy watching Angelus work (no matter what he does), I could feel only raw disgust and hatred at Billy, who tries to justify his bigotry. It's the same way with Proteus and the rioters, here.
Anyway, on with the episode.
I loved the music that played when the skiff passed through the "shimmering" area and New Olympus was first revealed.
Also, the designs for this episode were great--I love the many and varied character designs of the New Olympians themselves, especially Boreas and Helios.
And I echo Erin's assessment of the city: "Wow."
As soon as Elisa shoved the gargs off to the side and said, "No telling how they'll react to gargoyles," I immidiately put two and two together and figured out where this episode was going. I mean, whenever anyone says something so obvious like that it's almost like asking for the reverse to happen.
Interesting restraint system the N.O.s have. There's not much more I can say about it, but I did find it rather peculiar.
I agree with you about the Senate House walla, Greg. I must have heard that one guy say, "Humans can't live with us! They're dangerous! They're animals," or something like it, about two, maybe three times.
Also, theres a moment here that I always find a bit odd. When Taurus removes his helmet/mask, the way it's staged--the camera angles, and Goliath's spreading his wings--seems to indicate that this is some sizeable revelation. And yet, it was rather anticlimactic. Taurus, if anything, looked exactly as I expected him to look.
I like it that the "Leader" of the New Olympians holds a "lightning staff"--sort of harkens back to Zeus. Or is that thing particular to the Boreas of New Olympus?
And there's a moment towards the end of the Senate House scene that I missed until the third or fourth viewing: Goliath and Elisa embrace.
I do have to wonder about Boreas' decision here. What did he expect to happen? Did he have too high an opinion about the behavior of his people or did he suspect what would happen (which would make his decision somewhat malevolent)? I'd like to believe the former, but if that's the case, then he may be just a bit too optimistic.
And then we have the riot, which I've already touched on. Helios gets things rolling with his "stench" comment (kind of a racial slur), but Kiron throws the first punch. Like Todd, I find these two particularly reprehensible because they're supposed to be peace-keepers. Ekidna I actually find myself being more tolerant towards (maybe she reminds me of Demona). It's odd, but the way she talks about how the human's treated the N.O.s in the past sounds almost as if she experienced it personally. Then again, maybe I'm reading too much into that.
While Taurus' arresting Elisa is unjust, it did probably save her life in the immediate moment.
Actually, I find Taurus very interesting here as he's walking Elisa towards her cell. Whatever hatred he may have for humans, it doesn't stop him from telling Elisa about his father's murder by Proteus. He even manages to sound a little nice when he says "Make yourself comfortable, you could be here awhile." He also breaks up the riot, threatening to arrest everyone, and fire Helios (I love Helios' meek, "Y-yes, sir!"). Of course, I think a little of Taurus' own bias still shows through when he says "If you've got a problem, take it up with Boreas." It almost sounds as if he has a few things he'd like to say to the winged-one. Of course, I may again be reading too much into this.
Like I said, Taurus strikes me as someone who, while subject to prejudice, TRIES to act in spite of it. He's not always successful (he arrests Elisa instead of just moving her out of harm's way), but I'd like to think his effort counts for something.
And now we come to Proteus. I have to admit, my interest in him increased when you mentioned in a previous response that he was probably the closest thing to "pure evil," "evil incarnate," what-have-you that we have yet encountered in the GARGOYLES universe. There are many reasons I would have wanted to see the New Olympians spin-off, and a further exploration of Proteus' character was one of them. I would have loved seeing him in action beyond the scope of this one episode. And the late Roddy McDowell...what a great voice and performance.
I love how Proteus immediately begins quizzing Elisa about her mode of transportation. You can tell he's already thinking of escape.
Admittidly, Proteus may not be the best actor--"Who's that guy?" is probably the worst Goliath impression I've ever heard--but then again, he didn't have a heck-of-a-lot of time to study his subjects. I mean, if any of us had shape-shifting powers we could probably pull off a decent impression of the characters because we've watched and studied them so much. For what little time he had, Proteus' acting got the job done (up to a point--I'm not sure how convincingly he can turn to stone).
I find it interesting that Proteus' voice doesn't change when he becomes the Cyclops (is that a sort of secondary, "preferred form" for him?). I also find it interesting just how easily he seems to be hurt in that form. His fist connects with a collumn and he's in pain, and immediately after this he is felled by one punch from Taurus (granted it's to his EYE, but...).
One of my favorite sequences is in this episode. Proteus-as-Taurus, heads up to the Collinadium (however that's spelled) and begins to overload it. As he's doing this, Talos is explaining why this is a bad idea, and asking him to stop (while displaying missles) in such a frustratingly calm voice! I find it hilarious! Maybe that's why I feel sad when I see Talos' inert body hanging from Proteus' fist--I like the robot.
Angela does real well at dodging the restraints. If the sun hadn't rose, she probably could have kept it up for a while.
I always wince when Kiron tips over Bronx. It looks like something might have broken off.
Back to Proteus really quick--I love his transformations in this episode. The way he just sort of liquifies. The change from Goliath to Cyclops (with the two eyes becoming one) was especially well-done.
Taurus has his "I don't understand" moment, which is kind of required for episodes tackling subject matter like this. When the character actually says those words, I usually find it a bit too on the head, but Michael Dorn's acting helps make it work. And I love the wink Taurus gives Elisa.
One thing that I think many viewers may miss the first time is that Elisa DID NOT change the whole island--which is what would happen in another, more standard series (kind of like what TGC did with ANGELS IN THE NIGHT). Only Taurus and Boreas have really come to trust Elisa (Taurus even waves to her).
"The time may soon come when the world will have to face the New Olympians." When I first watched this, way back when it first aired, my mother watched it with me. As soon as Boreas said this, she turned to me with a smile and said, "I smell a spin-off." If we only knew how right we almost were.
(Then there's my brother, who thought that line sounded more like a threat...).
A little note on voices here. Having been an admirer of Rob Paulsen's work, I was glad to see him finally show up on GARGOYLES. I only wished I'd gotten to see more of him as Helios.
Overall, the voices were all well done (especially when the actors played Proteus-as-their character).
Yes, Taurus and Coldstone do sound a little too much alike, but Taurus has a slightly different speaking style than Coldstone, so that helps somewhat.
Of course, now that you've mentioned that Taurus, Talos and Proteus each had different voices originally, I'm going to be going crazy trying to figure out who they were!
This is a nice episode, with some rather difficult subject matter for me, but I like it. And I know I would have loved to see the NEW OLYMPIANS series.
Thanks for the ramble on "The New Olympians".
I've always had a soft spot for this episode, largely because I really like the notion of a whole society of "Greek mythology creatures/beings" out somewhere. I still hope that you can get to explore it some more later on; that spin-off sounded like a lot of fun.
Despite your mention of avoiding the actual gods for character models for the New Olympians (since the Greek gods were famous for looking too human to provide dramatic designs in the same way that a minotaur or centaur would), I did notice in the crowd scene (at the point when Helios is exaggeratedly coughing and retching in Elisa's presence) a woman carrying a bow who did bear a strong resemblance to Artemis (at least, as she's customarily depicted in myth-based art).
Ekidne at times struck me as almost channelling Demona in her cries of "Treacherous human!" and her eyes glowing red when angry. (Of course, Demona strikes me as another good case of "bigotry bringing about more bigotry", so it fits.)
Helios and Kiron's participation in the riot struck me as even worse than that of the other New Olympians; these guys are police, and should be discouraging such displays rather than encouraging them. (Whatever else you can say about Taurus, he had the decency to break up the demonstration outside Elisa's cell.)
Proteus struck me as a fun villain, with such lines as "They really don't like you, do they?" or his habit of tormenting Taurus by shape-shifting into his father. (I agree with you that Proteus doesn't seem to bother to do his homework; I'd caught all three of the flaws in his performance as Goliath that you'd mentioned - saying "Who's that guy?", providing a weak excuse for why he doesn't turn to stone in the daytime, and wanting to blow up New Olympus, which last - again - sounds more the sort of thing that Demona would do.) I also caught a moment when he's waving at Taurus with what appears to be an extra-large hand (which I assume is part of his shape-shifting again and not an odd-looking piece of animation).
One of my favorite bits is Elisa empathizing more with Taurus after discovering what they have in common - both police, and both have fathers who are police. Especially the bit where she wonders aloud how she'd respond if Peter Maza were to be killed in the line of duty.
Knowing your interest in Theseus, I certainly can't say that I'm surprised that one of the main New Olympian characters in the story would have a link to him, in the form of being descended from his most famous adversary. (Or that you'd do another take on Theseus and the Minotaur when you wrote an episode for Disney's animated Hercules series.)
The "humans of legend" bit reminds me slightly of a short story by J.R.R. Tolkien, "Farmer Giles of Ham"; in one scene, a giant is telling many other giants and dragons about his excursion into human territory, giving an exaggerated account of the food to be found there and of how little resistance one can expect from the local humans. The dragons promptly say eagerly "So knights are mythical, after all!"
Re your remarks about Talos - I wonder whether Talos could be described as truly prejudiced, being a robot rather than a flesh-and-blood being. (He certainly seemed the most pragmatic of the lot, as you put it.) Though, then again, maybe I'm displaying a bit of prejudice against robots and machines in not believing that they can develop feelings as humans and other flesh-and-blood beings can.
I'd caught the similarity of Goliath's "I cannot wage war upon an entire island" line to the earlier line "I cannot wage war upon an entire world" in "Awakening" - what made it most stand out to me is that the original line was spoken to Demona, and here he's saying something similar to Demona's daughter.
A neat little detail: the flying cars on New Olympus have little eyes painted in the front, just like those on an ancient Greek trireme.
Another of my favorite bits is Elisa's run-in with Helios, where she tells him about how Proteus is planning to blow up the island, leading to:
HELIOS: And you had to attack me to tell me that?
ELISA: Would you have listened to me if I'd just called you over?
HELIOS: Frankly, no!
Somehow I never spotted the hint of a spin-off at the end of this episode as I did for "Pendragon" - at least, not until I found out about the Master Plan. Now I find it an appealing idea, as I said above.
50 episodes down and only 16 to do. You're really making good progress on this one, Greg. Thanks.
I think I've only got three left now. Try to get to those soon.
1) Is Nokkar the Sentinel aware of the cloaked island of New Olympus or has New Olympian technology being able to fool the technology developed by his kind?
2) How did the New Olympians manage to create such advanced technology years ahead of human technology when they had a much smaller population and less resources for research and development when in regard human civilizations have been inventing continuously. For example even through humanity was in the Dark Age in Western Europe, people were still developing stuff in the MidEast and the Far East.
So in short order how did the New Olympians get so ahead? Did they just bypass or skip some of the technologies that humanity has or were they just really brillant at inventing stuff.
1. Well, without confirming whether or not Nokkar COULD have seen through their cloak, I think the short answer is that he DIDN'T see through it. Had no reason to look. He's looking outward for an external attack. That's where his sensors are aimed.
2. Continuity helps. A few brilliant individuals who are able to build upon the work of their predecessors without interference and are given the resources can do amazing things in very few generations. Scattered advancement (two steps forward, one step back) across continents with little or no communication doesn't encourage speed of development. I also think an open mind helps too. Who believed that a man could fly in the so-called real world? A few people certainly, but until the Wright Brothers proved it, not the masses. On New Olympus, lots of their citizens can already fly. So making the leap to creating a chariot to accomidate those without wings or other flight capabilities isn't quite as difficult.
I have some questions about the New Olympians?
1. In "The New Olympians," Is Kiron a decendant of Chiron the Centaur from Greek Mythology?
2. Who are Terry Chung and Jove?
3. What other Mythological characters besides Boreas, Ekidna, Helios, Kiron, Proteus, Talos, and Taurus the Minotaur were in the Gargoyles episode, "The New Olympians."
1. In theory.
2. Terry's a human. Jove is a New Olympian. For more information... attend a gathering... ;)
3. I think you've named them all... or all that were named. I'm not sure about all the bg characters that Bob Kline put in there.
How did proteus escape from new olympus - in seeing isn't believing .
How did proteus kill taurus's father , where , and when .
I've only seen that episode of Goliath Chronicles once. And I have very little memory of it. I don't personally consider it canon.
As for how, where and when he killed Taurus' father, that's an entire story... for another day.
Salutations, Mr. Weisman. I have a few questions concerning the New Olympians.
1. I've seen several questions about AI's in the Gargoyles universe, but I can't remember any mention of Talos in these questions. Without recycling the question about sentience (I know better than to beat that dead horse), how does Talos compare to the Matrix, probably the most self-aware AI created by man in the Gargoyles cosmology, in terms of self-awareness?
2. As an artificial construct, it stands to reason that Talos doesn't age (at least in the biological sense). As such, he should have memories stretching back for several thousand years. If this is the case, why hasn't he risen to a postition of greater authority (greater than what he seemed to possess, in any case)? He seems to have a position akin to advisor, and in the New Olympians spin-off, would have acted as advisor to Taurus. Does he prefer to act as a mentor rather than be in the spotlight, or are some New Olympians uncomfortable with the concept of an AI, no matter how advanced, in a command position?
3. You've said that Talos was created by Daedalus, possibly with aid from Hephaestios (whom I assumed to be one of the Children of Oberon). Although I'm aware that much of our "modern" technology is, in fact, older than many people think, that's still an extremely impressive accomplishment. How did Daedalus manage to pull it off? Was Daedalus a New Olympian whose Fae bloodline manifests itself as heightened intelligence and inventive ability rather than control of fire or great strength and inhuman features? Was magic involved somehow, or was the Lost Race (or an artifact connected with them) involved?
4. Building on my last question, why does New Olympus possess technology more advanced than the rest of the world? Is there a subdivision of their population whose internalized "powers" include an enhanced intellect? Or is it that they simply did not go through a "Dark Age," like humans did, where a good deal of lore and knowledge were deliberately suppressed?
5. There are several identifiable "subtypes" of New Olympians. I remember reading your response to another question in which you said that they constituted a hybrid race which had stabilized and could interbreed, despite their numerous differences. Do children mixed-subtype couples take after one parent or do they form new subtypes unto themselves? Either way, the New Olympians probably would attach no stigma to it.
6. What are Talos's capabilities, generally speaking? He probably has faster reasoning capabilities than a human or a gargoyle (and probably the Children, too), and likely has perfect recall. In the New Olympians episode, he threatened Proteus (disguised as Taurus) with missiles from his wrist. What else is he capable of?
7. What kind of person (if I could use the term) is Talos? He voiced the opinion that they might need human allies in the New Olympians episode, and he eventually joins the "Peaceful Co-existance" faction and goes to New York to advise the New Olympian ambassador, Taurus, but could (and probably is) based on simple logic. He realizes that they cannot hide forever, and that they should reveal themselves at a time of their chosing instead of waiting to be found by humanity, and the need for human allies is fairly obvious. That said, why does he support the Taurus's faction? Is he a fundamentally good person (I use the term loosely), or is he simply doing what he feels is logically what's best for New Olympus (and, by extension, himself)?
8. Do the other New Olympians generally use male pronouns in regard to Talos and think of him as male? Does Talos himself consider himself to have a gender, or is that just something that he/it doesn't even think about?
1. I don't want to give away all of Talos' secrets at this time. But I see Talos as having been upgraded many, many times over the centuries. Ages ago, his programming would have been very, very simple, limited by mechanical and chemical reactions. But that was two millenia ago. Is he artificially intelligent now? I believe he has memory banks and a learning program. I guess the greater question is with memory and learning are any of us intelligent -- artificially or otherwise?
2. I'd lean toward both being true.
3. Nothing to do with the so-called Lost Race. And Daedalus was human. Just smart and with some helpful friends. I don't see Talos as being magical.
4. No separate populations. More the latter, but there were also break-through individuals... resource issues, etc.
5. No particular stigma, and all of the above.
6. You covered the big things. He's strong too. Oh, and tall. I'm not going into the rest at this time.
7. He was programmed to protect New Olympus. That programming still holds. Much of your reasoning is on target.
8. He was built to mimic the male form, and I think he and everyone else just takes that for granted. He is in fact asexual, but would identify himself as male.
Good questions, by the way.
Hi Greg! I'm posting for the first time and it feels wierd, since I tried to send questions 4 or 5 years ago and they got deleted. Anyway...
First of all, I'd like to thank you for having been (and still being) such an important part of the Gargoyles franchise. You (and others of course) provided me with easily THE single best animated show ever. A well written series great voice acting, continuous plots, characters that are believable, and a complex universe that manages both to include lots of existing legends and myths while still retaining a distinct identity. I truly think that in terms of all-around quality for a dramatic show, Gargoyles was easily Disney's best effort by far. Reboot is the only other animated show that I've seen that seems to exhibit the same qualities, meaning well-written, clever and quite enjoyable for both kids and adults.
Also, I'm happy to learn that Gathering 2004 will take place in Montreal, meaning I might actually be able to attend! I don't know if you're the one who chose the location, but if you are, thanks on behalf of us Canadians!
Finally, I'd just like to thank you for actually answering the flood of questions we fans send your way. And especially your god-like patience towards people who obviously never took the time to read the FAQ OR archive. I can understand asking about a minor detail that could have been missed, but among the questions being submitted, I know there are some LAZY people I wouldn't mind slapping once or twice in the face...
Anyway, I have a number of questions on different subject, so expect a few one-question posts from me.
This one would fit in a "Writing" category if there is such a thing.
1. Regarding your current master plan (i.e. your ideas for the various spin-offs), it's obvious you've given lots of thoughts to the initial setting of each. The main characters and their immediate goals for example, as well as ideas for early stories as well as a few ideas for on-going plots. A lot of course would be dictated by the characters (and your muse I'm sure) as the shows would go along.
a) Now here's my question: Do you have an idea about the possible endings of some of your spin-offs? I don't want you to tell me anything, just if you have some "Ultimate goals" in mind for all your spin-offs.
Gargoyles itself has always been very open-ended. There never was a single overlying theme to the series, it just kept going on on its own, the plots and characters growing in complexity in a very organic and sometimes unpredictable way. It could potentially keep going on for years and years.
But some of your spin-offs have very specific premises. There ARE stories that are better told if planned from beginning to end as a whole. Others however are better if left to evolve on their own. An aimless story could potentially "find its voice" after a while, leading to an ultimate ending of sorts. Or, the initial premise could be transformed over time, leading the story in a quite different direction.
For example, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Initially, the show is about our heroes trying to restore a people (Bajorans) to a stable society following years of occupation by an enemy race (Cardassians). Yet, after two years, the show introduced a much bigger menace, a race who sought to conquer and control all others (the Dominion). From then on, the show eventually lead to a huge war with the ending signaling the end of the hostility.
a) How do you feel about long stories? About those that are open-ended and those that have some finality set for them? (I hope I'm not being to vague here. I'm really interested in how you feel about this)
And about some specifics spin-offs:
b) Bad Guys: The basic idea is about our main characters seeking redemption. Do you know if they ever find it? And would that be the goal of the show?
c) TimeDancer: Ultimately, the very final ending is, in a way, already known. Brooklyn makes it home a lot older with a family. But do you already have some sketchy idea about how he finally makes it there, like some final adventure dealing with the Phoenix Gate itself, or were you planing on dealing with it once you were forced to, like a series' finale?
c) Gargoyles 2198: This one seems to be mostly about the war against the Space-Spawn but as you often say, "Things aren't that simple". Would the liberation of Earth signal the end of the series, or would you keep the series going with the existing setting once the war is over? After all, there might still be other threats like Coyote-X, the Illuminati, etc.
d) Dark Ages: Since this one could theoretically run up to the beginning of "Awakening", I won't ask if you have an ending in mind.
e) Pendragon: It's obvious now that Merlin, Mr. Duval and Holy Grail would be important part of the story. Do you have an ending in mind for this one, or where you again planing on seeing where the story ultimately took you?
f) New Olympians: This one feels pretty generic, and feels like it could run forever like Gargoyles. The ultimate goal I suppose would be the acceptance of New Olympus by humanity, but judging by the response toward gargoyles, wouldn't likely fit within an entire series, no matter how long it might be. Still, got an ending in mind, even if it's pretty open-ended, like "Hunter's Moon pt.3"?
Thanks a lot for answering.
Well, time delay means that I believe we met in Montreal (and, no, I didn't choose the location -- I don't make those decisions). You played Lex in the radio play, right?
1a. Some yes, some no. I know where Dark Ages ends -- with "Awakening, Part One". I know where "TimeDancer" ends... right where it began. I have a VERY good idea of how the Space-Spawn thing is resolved, but I don't think that necessarily marks the end of 2198. And likewise, I don't have a firm ending for Pendragon, Bad Guys or the New Olympians... but I have a good idea where I want to go with the first major arcs. As for Gargoyles itself -- that would end in 2198.
1a) [You had two (a)s.] Some stories -- whether long or short -- need closure. They're one-shots... no matter how long they last. Others can be open-ended. I lean toward the latter personally... because life is ongoing -- even after individuals die. But I respect the other form as well.
b) I'm not going to reveal whether or not they find redemption, but yes that's the goal. The thing is... even if I were to redeem all the original cast, the concept can survive them. And new characters may be introduced that give us a reason to continue. I will say, that I wouldn't be shy to bring a series to an end if I had no more stories to tell. That just has never happened to me within the Garg Universe. Not yet anyway.
c) See above for confirmation of your basic thesis. But I have a fairly clear general idea of how the whole dance, including the finale choreographs. But I won't pretend I have all forty years worth of adventures planned out to the last detail. I don't.
c) [You had two (c)s, as well.] See above. The war doesn't end the series.
d) See above.
e) I have endings in mind for some of the arcs that I plan to set in motion. But even the ultimate death of Arthur himself (which I was not planning anytime soon) might not end this series. I have at least one significant idea to go beyond Arthur...
f) Same deal. I have specific arcs in mind, and I have a solid idea of how they end. But I doubt that they wouldn't lead to more stories. If in fact they didn't and I was out of juice there, I'd shut it down.
What are the New Olympians?
They are a hybrid race, the children of "unions" between mortals of various species and the Children of Oberon. The current New Olympians are the descendants of the gods and monsters of Greek and Roman Mythology. These ancestors moved to the island of New Olympus to escape human persecution.
Time to ramble...
Chapter L: "The New Olympians"
Story Editor: Gary Sperling
Writer: Adam Gilad
Director: Bob Kline
Well, the Greek Myths of course. But that's not really what I'm talking about. As many of you know, The New Olympians was a concept -- originally created by Bob Kline -- that we began developing at Disney TV Animation even BEFORE Gargoyles. It was definitely a concept that evolved, but it was also a concept that we felt fit nicely into the Gargoyles Universe. So this episode was created as a backdoor pilot. At the time we had big plans for the Gargoyles Universe. Hopes that it would eventually evolve into Disney's equivalent of the Marvel or DC Universe. The World Tour expanded our Universe in many ways -- mostly for the sake of the Gargoyles series itself. But also to demonstrate that our universe had the "chops" to go the distance.
So the New Olympians were imported whole, like Athena from Zeus' head -- into the gargverse. The development for "The New Olympians" series focused on four major characters: Terry, Sphinx, Talos and Taurus. Terry and Sphinx were kept out of this episode on purpose -- so that we'd have fresh faces for the series if it went. Talos has a very minor role. But Taurus took a lead here. Other characters, such as Kiron, Ekidna, Helios, Boreas and, of course, Proteus were also part of the N.O. development. Though again, we left out a bunch of other characters: Xetes, Kalais, Medusa, Jove and Xanatos (yes, Xanatos) so that the whole series didn't become old news, should it get going.
The basic concept of the series, familiar to anyone who's attended a Gathering and seen the original pitch, was Romeo & Juliet. Terry is a human. Sphinx is a New Olympian. They are in love. But their "families" aren't making that love easy. This episode, would in essence be a PREQUEL to that series. Terry hasn't arrived yet. Elisa will help pave the way for Boreas' decision to finally reveal the New Olympians to the human world.
But another important inspiration was the work of Jack Kirby. In my recent ramble on "Eye of the Storm", I commented on how we strove to avoid a Kirbyesque Odin -- and didn't entirely succeed. Here, Kirby was a clear influence. I hope The New Olympians weren't a rip-off, but I can't deny that his Inhumans, his Eternals and his New Gods influenced us -- or me, at least -- when we were creating both New Olympus and our cast of characters.
Creating the cast was also interesting. We basically compiled a list of Greek & Roman myth-figures. Gods. Monsters. Titans. Etc. Then we tried to think about their descendants... Tried to think about which would be the most visually interesting. (A lot of the gods, for example, just look like glorified humans, so we tended to ignore them.) Originally, Kiron had the Taurus role and Medusa had the Sphinx role. But after talking with the artists, we made the double switch, because it was felt that having to animate a centaur and a woman with snaky hair on a regular basis was just inviting difficulties. As with many of these pragmatic decisions, I eventually fell in love with the new version -- and wouldn't want to go back, even if I could be assured of the highest possible animation quality.
In order to import this diverse group into the Gargverse, I posited that these were the descendents of mortals who mated with the Children of Oberon (or Mab). They therefore have incredible abilities and amazing appearances, but they are mortal. Some may have extremely long lives, but they do age. Still, before they left the human world behind, many of the original Olympians were treated as Gods. But some were treated as Monsters. As in Gargoyles, PREJUDICE would be a major theme of the series. In fact, if you look at the PREVIOUSLY of this episode, you'll see that it's fully thematic. All stuff about humans being prejudiced about Gargoyles. That's because we had nothing content-wise that we needed to set up. But if we set-up human prejudice, than it helped forge the twist of prejudice against humans, which Elisa would face in the episode. (I do wish we had thought to include Goliath's line: "Humans fear what they do not understand...")
So the New Olympians fled the Human World. They established a secret island and developed astounding technology... including a cloaking device. (I was always a touch disappointed with all the fog and mist in the opening scene. I wanted the skiff to suddenly be on the open sea, with nothing around for miles. The fog allowed for the notion that something might be hiding BEHIND it. I didn't want that. Still, I think the idea gets across. And the shimmer effect is nice. Plus, I like how Goliath abruptly spreads his wings when he enters it. When my daughter Erin saw the city finally materialize, she said: "Wow!")
OLD LINES IN NEW CONTEXT
Were we just out of dialogue ideas, or were we trying to make a point or an inside joke or something. I'll let you decide...
Goliath: "We cannot wage war against an entire city."
Elisa: "You'll have to do better than that."
Michael Dorn wound up playing Taurus and the late Roddy McDowell as Proteus. Dorian Harewood, who was originally cast as Boreas, also wound up playing Talos. But none of these three were our original choices for those rolls. Instead we cast three people who I thought would be perfect for their parts. But none hit it. It was one of our rare recordings that DIDN'T work. So we fell back on Michael to play the very Worf-like Taurus. (This sometimes bothers me as the voice is exactly the same as Coldstone's. But ultimately you go with the best hand you have at the time.) Dorian ended up doing double duty as Talos and was terrific. And of course, Roddy was just brilliant as Proteus.
What's interesting is that Proteus himself is not the greatest actor. Erin noticed... "There's something different in his voice." Of course, it's Keith David PLAYING Proteus playing Goliath. (Which is always fun.) And Keith hits the mark with precision. As does Salli & Michael when they're playing Proteus playing Elisa & Taurus. Sure Proteus always LOOKS the part -- thanks to his shape-shifting abilities. And I suppose he's less of a ham than Sevarius. But he never quite takes the time to truly "inhabit" his roles. Certainly, while playing Elisa and then Goliath, there are a number of small tip-offs in his choice of words that are just wrong. Like can you really imagine Goliath saying: "Who's that guy?" One assumes that his performance as Taurus' dad is equally off the mark.
The walla in the Senate House when Elisa is on trial isn't my favorite. We just didn't get enough coverage, so it repeats and repeats.
All of the New Olympians we see are prejudiced. Every one. Some are worse than others. Boreas is well-meaning, but wrong. Taurus is narrow-minded. Talos is, at best, only pragmatic -- not morally outraged by Elisa's treatment. Most of the others are just flat out racists. "New Olympians fear what they don't understand." I'm sure somewhere on the island there were some more enlightened individuals, but we made a point of NOT showing them.
I wanted to do a few things with that theme. (1) Show that prejudice breeds prejudice. The New Olympians have some legitimate grievances against the human race, but they've learned the wrong lessons from their ancient persecution. (2) Of course, we wanted to play the irony of the monsters being afraid of the "Humans of Legend". Elisa tells the Gargoyles to hide when they first land on the island. And she's the one that the New Olympians fear. They have "no quarrel" with the Gargoyles. And the best solution that even Boreas and Taurus can come up with is to "Quarantine" our girl. (3) There was a three. I had it in my head a minute ago. Now, for the life of me, I can't remember what it was.
Maybe it had something to do with Prejudice only truly being able to be attacked one person at a time. I went to an all boys high school. We were all so deathly afraid of being called homosexuals that a culture of homophobia was ingrained into all of us. It wasn't like I was going around gay-bashing. I like to think that even then, I had the sense and the control to stifle my prejudices. But I can't deny I had them -- probably still have them to some extent, unfortunately. Anyway, then I went to college. Acted in a couple plays with a guy I really admired -- both as an actor and as a human being. Became good friends with this guy (who had the amazing name Steve Wraith). THEN I discovered he was gay. By that time, I didn't care. He had personally won me over -- in a slightly less dramatic fashion then how Homer Simpson learned to accept gays after John Waters saved his life. Steve never saved my life, but I'm afraid the metaphor is VERY apt. I haven't seen Steve in twenty years, but I owe him a lot. A few years later my cousin came out. After that, many if not most of my friends came out. My sister. Etc. Steve paved the way to make me a better person. Conceptually, we can all talk about dismissing prejudice, but I have this sneaking suspicion that the only way we really learn is one human being at a time. That's why Goliath vouching for Elisa was ineffective. People are doomed to HAVE to figure things out for themselves. And unfortunately, some never do.
WHO KNEW THESEUS WAS SUCH A BASTARD?
And so we put Taurus through that process. He meets a human. His distaste is palpable. He knows the story of the Minotaur, his ancestor. [Now Theseus is one of my all time favorite characters from Myth. But I couldn't resist flipping the tale of the Labyrinth and telling it, if just for a few seconds, from the Minotaur's point of view.] But Taurus will learn to respect humans - one human at at time. Elisa and Taurus actually have a lot in common. Both are cops. Both have/had fathers who are/were cops. But as Elisa says, he's "got some funny ideas about justice."
Elisa is clearly more enlightened. In part, that may come from her own history. She grew up as a person of color in a largely white society. She's no stranger to prejudice. Being both African-American and Native American, it's possible that she has even faced some rejection from African-Americans and Native Americans as well. Clearly, based on her openness with regards to Goliath and the Gargoyles, she learned her lessons long before we met her. Pretty much from the moment she realized that Goliath could talk -- and was therefore sentient by human standards, she treated him as an equal. I always admired her for that. Unlike the New Olympians, she didn't let the prejudice she faced turn her into a bigot.
Taurus will eventually get the message. His prejudices don't just vanish. But he's learned something.
SOME NEAT MOVES
I like the sequence where Goliath comes to break Elisa out, and Proteus takes advantage of the situation by first turning into Elisa and then Goliath. (When Erin first saw him as Elisa, she said, "Uh oh." which is pretty much exactly what he was going for.
I like how Taurus threatens to fire Helios.
I like how Goliath turns to stone in Proteus' cell.
I like how Elisa takes charge -- and basically FORCES Taurus to partner up with her. She has two tip offs that Proteus is posing as Goliath. First the fact that he didn't turn to stone and blames it on the cloaking device affecting the sun's rays. Of course, Elisa knows that it's not literally the sun that turns a gargoyle to stone. It's his or her biological clock, which is often triggered by sunrise. But the real clincher is Proteus' plan to blow up the Collonadium. Elisa knows Goliath would NEVER do that.
I like when Taurus tries to express his admiration -- and still can't do it without insulting her species. Elisa takes it in stride: "I'll choose to take that as a compliment." Progress is slow.
THE NEW OLYMPIANS
We end the episode with a pretty blatant pitch for giving the New Olympians their own show. It's certainly shameless. But I make no apologies. I still contend that THE NEW OLYMPIANS would make a GREAT t.v. series.
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Is New Olympian society based on the Roman one with the plebs and the patricians and the Senate?
It's a mixture of Greek & Roman.
Is Taurus's role as security chief passed from father to son? If not then how are they selected?
Was Boreas elected to his role as leader of New Olympus or was it inherited?
Taurus' job isn't officially passed down from father to son. But Taurus did follow in his father's hoofsteps.
Boreas' was elected.
Hey Gregg, I'm new to this site, and I was just wondering... is there something I missed about Gargoyles? I mean, I know of Gargoyles, and The Goliath Chronicles, but was there some other Gargoyle show that aired after?
What lies ahead for Gargoyles? Do you plan on bringing them back to the air at some point? I'd really like to see some new Gargoyles cartoons....
There were proposed spin-offs, sequels and prequels, including
Gargoyles: The Dark Ages
The New Olympians
plus plenty ideas just to continue the "Gargoyles" series itself.
I haven't been able to convince Disney to do any of these things.
But who knows?
"Firefly" was dead. It sold a TON of DVDs and now they're making a movie, "Serenity". "Family Guy" was dead. It sold a TON of DVDs and now they're making new episodes.
Up until this year, the best single way you could help relaunch the show in some way, shape or form was by attending the Gathering, our annual convention. That's still true. So if you haven't heard, check out this year's con at their website:
The good folks at Walt Disney Home Entertainment took notice of the fandom, largely thanks to these conventions. They'll be attending this year with a video crew to tape footage of the con to put on the Gargoyles DVD, to be released later THIS year (2004!).
The DVD will contain all 13 episodes of the series' first season, complete and uncut. It will also have a commentary track and other extras (in addition to the con footage) that are still being discussed.
If you want to see the 2nd Season on DVD, and if you want to see Disney make more Garg Universe materials, there's no better way to get them to take notice than by buying the DVD. If the fans demonstrate an audience with disposable income, Disney will respond. It's not far-fetched. It's happened before.
OKay, First of all, Vulcan is the Roman God of what?
Please Answer ASAP..
And that's ASAP. Less than two years. Worth the wait?
You know how in most comic books that super-villains end up in mental hospitals for the criminally insane instead of prison? Two examples are Arkham Asylum in the DC comics and Ravencroft in Marvel Comics. Out of all of the Gargoyles' enemies, who would most likely end up in an insane asylum? Fans have to admit that villains like Demona, Dr. Sevarious, Castaway, Thailog, Hyena, Jackal, Proteus and Coldsteel are all nuts! Plus, Wolf and Fang seem to have some issues.
I don't think that either Wolf, Fang, Sevarius, Thailog or Coldsteel are "criminally insane" by its legal definition. I think it's a stretch for Demona, Jackal, Castaway and Proteus as well. That is, all these characters know right from wrong.
Of the characters you named, Hyena and Proteus are the most psychopathic. But I think Proteus knows what he's doing. He just revels in his evil. Hyena, frankly, isn't that bright. She has no control at all, beyond some semi-affection for her brother, i.e. her anchor.
Clearly, many of these characters COULD wind up in someplace Arkhamesque. But that would depend on lawyers and judges and juries. Obviously, the one trial we know that Hyena faced landed her in a regular prison cell right beside Fox. So even for her, a legal argument could obviously be made that she was criminally sane.
Would the New Olympian spin-off be centered more on politics and romance?
Neither, really. It would be centered on action. But as with most of my stuff there'd certainly be aspects of intrigue, politics, romance, etc.
Where can I find the stories refered to in different questions? Such as the story of Oberon and Mab, or the stories that take place in the future? I've searced for them but haven't found them.
Well, some of those stories just don't exist anywhere outside my head.
If you look at the Gargoyles 2198 ASK GREG archive, you can see the development I did for that imaginary spin-off. And if you come to a Gathering, you can see the original pitches for GARGOYLES, GARGOYLES: DARK AGES and NEW OLYMPIANS and the reel for BAD GUYS.
But mostly, I've only revealed tidbits here and there that at best might suggest a story or two. The only stories I've actually told are:
1. The first two seasons of the GARGOYLES Series. 65 Episodes.
2. "The Journey". The first episode of THE GOLIATH CHRONICLES.
3. An unpublished comic book script, featuring an untold episode from the World Tour. So far, I haven't shown this to anyone beyond my former Marvel Comics Editor.
4. "The Last". An episode of TEAM ATLANTIS that was never made, but which was written, recorded and partially storyboarded. I play the voice tape (featuring Marina Sirtis as Demona) at the Gathering.
5. "Once Upon A Time There Were Three Brothers..." My one and only stab at fanfiction. It's a prequel to DARK AGES... which you can find here:
At the end, it says TO BE CONTINUED, but DARK AGES is the continuation.
1a. When she learns of the New Olympians what does Demona think of them?1b. Does she regard them as another sub species of human? 1c.Does she want to wipe them out?
2.What inspirations did you guys take from the New Gods for New Olympians? I mean the New Olympians are more like the Inhumans and Eternals than the New Gods.
3.In the very original pre-gargoyle pitch of New Olympians what were the four main characters? 3b.Was Sphinx one of them? If so was she Terry's love interest in it?
3c. Somebody said that Medusa was one of the four characters is this true? 3d. If so was she to be Terry's love interest? 3e. If not what role was she to play?
4a.What are the names of Boreas's sons?
4b.Does Boreas have any other kids?
1. I think she'd be suspicious of them, while simultaneously looking for a way to exploit them and/or coopt them to her anti-human cause. But I don't think she'd trust them.
2. The New Olympians were inspired by the various works of Jack Kirby, including the New Gods, the Inhumans and the Eternals. I'd tend to agree that they're more Eternal than New Godian, but my point in sighting all three is that we weren't trying to rip off one specific group. We simply were inspired by the style of that sort of mythic stuff.
3. It was the same four characters. Sphinx, Talos, Taurus and Terry. It was the same show. Same relationships. We just threw in a gargoyles prequel episode.
3a. Every show goes through a development process. And at one point VERY EARLY ON, Medusa was in Sphinx's place (in every way). But I was told her hair would be hard to have to animate if she was going to be a regular and in almost every scene. So we switched in Sphinx. But all this was long before New Olympians got co-opted into Gargoyles, by which time Sphinx had long been in the Medusa slot. FYI, Back then Kiron the Centaur was in Taurus' slot. Again, we made a one-for-one switch for animation purposes.
4a. Kaleas and Zeteas
4b. No. (At least none that I know of.)
here's the first of two post, about two separated topics.
Anonymous' question about Proteus' lifespan made me wonder; though not about his future, but about his past.
Have you set the year of his birth, or his age?
Why can't I sleep?
I've been up since 7 am yesterday. This just isn't fair.
Getting to the *actual* question...(I've looked through the archives, and haven't seen this one. I apologize if I missed it. And even more so If I've previously asked this question but forgot your response because it was a smart-ass one.)
"All things are true" you say, but I would appreciate it if you would clarify this for me:
In your conception of the gargoyles universe, are all "non-mortal" beings of the Fae race, or do you allow for the existence of anthropomorphic personifications?
(My, you do get a lot of Neil Gaimen inspired questions, don't you?)
[And as Aaron seems to have become lax in his posting of webcomic (and related) links...]
Well, I hope you've been able to get some sleep since November 9, 2001...
I guess, and I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, I'm not sure how you're defining "anthropomorphic personifications"? How is that different from, say, Anansi or The Stone of Destiny?
Anansi is definitely a "Child of Oberon." Not literally his kid, but one of his race. (Note: he's not Fae, which is not a term from the series. I view the Fae as a subset of the Children. Same with the Norse Pantheon and the Egyptian Pantheon, etc.)
Whereas, the Stone of Destiny is either an enchanted object or a Child of Oberon. I've intentionally left that vague for now.
As you've seen, the New Olympians are, strictly speaking, not Children of Oberon, though they are descended from them. Do they count as anthromorphic personifications?
So, I'm not trying to dodge the answer. I just honestly don't know how to define your terms.
Besides anti-gravity,force shields and robotics what other interesting tech do the NOs have?
Holographics? (Whatever keeps you from seeing the island until you get within a certain perimeter.)
As of 1996, how much does Demona know of the N.O.?
What is Proteus¡¯s lifespan? Is he around in 2198? If so what has he been doing? By 2198 how many sentient beings has he killed?
Will Sphinx and Terry have descendents in 2198?
Not saying one way or another.
(Do you see how if I admitted anything along these lines, it would ruin a great deal of supsense for these characters in the present?)
How advanced were the New Olympians when they fled to New Olympus? Did they have any tech the Mediterranean world didn¡¯t have? If so what kind of tech?
You said the New Olympians had something better than nuclear tech so what is it? Fusion?
Well, Talos, at least, was fairly advanced and not common to the 'known world'.
How advanced is the Illuminati¡¯s tech? Beyond Xanatos¡¯s tech? Anywhere close to New Olympian tech?
There's no across the board answer to this. Different groups will be more advanced in different areas.
1. Who was the centaur at the Gathering?
2. Is Medusa a N.O. or one of Oberon's children?
Because she was at the Gathering and in an older post someone mentioned she was also on New Olympus.
1. Good question.
2. The Medusa I've given any thought too is a New Olympian. If there was a medusa-like character at the Gathering, I don't recall. But keep in mind that the Children are shape-shifters and can look pretty much like whatever they want.
What was the difference between the original NO show and the latter one that became part of the gargoyles universe besides Sphinx being Terry's girlfriend and Xanatos appearing? Were all the characters there including Helios, Jove, Borea and his son, Chiron, Ekidna, Taurus, Talos, Sphinx, Medusa and Terry and his mother?
There were no differences except Xanatos.
Sphinx and Terry were always slated to be Romeo and Juliet.
The problem you're having is that I talk occasionally about brainstorming sessions and ideas from them. But that doesn't mean we have entire separate versions of these shows developed. In the first (and really only) version of New Olympians, the leads were Terry, Sphinx, Talos and Taurus, with all the supporting characters you mentioned, plus Proteus of course. (Oh, and Boreas has two sons.) And it's Kiron not Chiron.
Have you seen Batman Beyond?
What do you think of it?
I've been told that the design of Terry McGinnis from BB is similar to that of Terry Chung of the NO any truth to that?
I think it's very well made. And I like certain things about it. But it just feels more Spider-Manish to me than Batman.
Well, there's no final model for Terry Chung, but from what I've seen, no. For starters, Terry Chung is Chinese-American. Terry McGinnis isn't. And Terry Chung wears contemporary clothes. Terry McGinnis wears... well... clothes from beyond.
I the original version of New Olympians that you made was Ekidna Medusa's mother?
Was Sphinx in the original? If so what role did she serve?
The exact same role.
Are there any other sentient races native to our solar system besides Lost race,Gargoyles,Humans,Fae and New olympians? If so care to list a few?
If there were, I wouldn't list them. But there aren't. But if there were, I wouldn't list them.
(All this of course ignores our recent discussions about the misuse of the term 'sentient'.)
Is the reason you created the clone's differn't skin, eyes and hair pigmintation, because you didn't want another cartoon where your trying to figure out which one is the real Goliath or Lexington? Or at least not overdue it since this happend latter with Proteus?
I liked Thailog's look. It was partially inspired by the changes that John Byrne made to the Fantastic Four's costumes in the eighties.
But yes. Though we played the beat for a couple of acts, I didn't want to do EVIL TWIN takes the place of the good guy and confuses everyone. Once Thailog was revealed, there wasn't any question as to who was who. Just seemed a more original take on the old clone idea. What do the rest of you think?
(And Proteus had nothing to do with it. At the time we were creating Thailog, I didn't yet know that I was going to insert The New Olympians into the Garg Universe.)
Top of the milk to ya greg.
Greg Bishansky just posted a bunch of info about the New Olimpian spin off, that I had never heard before, and said that you had reveled all of it at Gatherings. So have you, or will you ever post profiles about each of the spin offs on the internet in as much detail as you have with Gargoyles 2198?
1. Are the New Olimpian Gargoyels under the same Government as all of New Olimpis, or do they have an independant system?
2. Did the N.O. Gargoyels come to New Olimpis for the same reasons as the "halflings"? b. Did they come at the same time?
1. They are citizens of New Olympus. But they have a 'local' clan government and largely keep to themselves.
2. Largely, yes.
b. New Olympus wasn't colonized at one specific time in history. Though it was founded at a specific time and closed off at a specific time. But there was a LONG span in between these two events.
ooh wait found another one. (please, if you dislike the fact that im posting dozens of questions, let me know and i will stop at once.)
You said that the New Olympians had something better than nuclear tech could you tell us what it is?
Zeracoy Enex Power.
(I just made that up.)
recorded on 06-29-01
I feel like now, I could come up with something that sounded better but made no more sense.
What exactly is Mount Thanatos? City?
Why did they name it after death incarnate?
It's a mountain. And that's a LONG story.
What is the New olympians role in the liberation of earth against Space Spawn rule?
How genetically compatible are New Olympians with gargoyles and humans? Can the NOs successfully have children with those races?
It is unlikely, but not impossible.
Why do none of the New Olimpians bother to tell Goliath that there are other Gargoyles on New Olimpis? Where do the other gargoyles live on the island? How big is the Island? it looked like it was just one floating city.
It's fairly big. They may have thought Goliath knew. The Gargoyles of New Olympus are isolationists, even from their fellow citizens.
Were you trying to imitate Kirby's Gods among us theme when you were developing New Olympians?
As I've mentioned before, Kirby's Eternals (and to a lesser extent his Inhumans and New Gods) were definite inspirations. We hope what we created was unique and original, but I don't deny the influence. We were going for something Kirbyesque.
What part did Roddy McDowell play in Gargoyles?
You recently (as of June 29) mentioned that New Olympus is a representative democracy. However, in the television episode, the New Olympians (during the scene where Elisa is on trial in the Senate-house; I believe that it's Ekidna who says it) describe their homeland as a kingdom. How do we reconcile these statements? Was there some sort of change in government system since New Olympus was originally founded?
Were you ever influenced by the Inhumans of Marvel comics while you were making New Olympians?
More the Eternals and the New Gods. But I suppose you could throw the Inhumans in there too. It was a very Kirby-inspired concept, and we made no bones about it. Bob Kline, Gargoyles' original Development Art Director and later a Producer/Director on the series' second season, came up with the original idea that developed into New Olympians. This was some time before Gargoyles. We later folded it in.
I was looking over the [finally] completed description of the future series and after happily ooing and aahing, I had a few questions.
-1- I noticed that Broadway and Angela's biological children had similar sounding names, (arthurian in my mind). Since they were not named specifically by the parents but rather as clan children, (I assume), I was wondering if this was intentional. Are rookeries intentionally named with similar names, like the angel theme with the Avalon eggs? Do near rookeries share somewhat similar names and distant ones more different ones? Am I reading way too much into a statistical sample of three?
[Side question- Broadway, raised by Gargoyles would not care who was his biological child, but Angela was raised by humans, even if they did try to follow the gargoyle mode. Does she care a little, or at least think about it?]
-2- Nicolas Natzilani Maza, (please excuse my spelling, I am composing this offline): From which of the current Maza siblings does he descend?
-3- Alexander Fox Xanatos IV: I have a feeling I am being a bit dense here, but is he the same Alex as Alexander Fox Xanatos I but covering for extreme longevity?
-4- I don't remember any mention of the New Olympians. Do they play a notable role? If not, where are they?
-5- Logistically I am confused about something- In a perfect world all the Gargoyle spin offs would be running at the same time for an indefinate amount of time. More specifically Time Dancer and Gargoyles 2198 would be running at once. [Which leads to another side question: What you call the series after the first year?] As I see it the first year or two wouldn't be a problem- Timedancer Brooklyn would be a couple of years younger than future Brooklyn and we just wont see him describing in detail events that haven't happened yet in Time Dancer to people in 2198.
The problems start when it comes time for Time Dancer Brooklyn to go to 2198. The easiest way I can see it is, we see him leave, we see him return ten years older all in one ep, "wow! I just spent ten years fighting aliens in the future! But I wont say anything more as not to let you know too much about what will be." Then we have a Time Dancer Brooklyn ten or so years older than the Future one and a massive, sustained chuck of time that he can't give away to the audience. It seems like it would be a very awkward.
Thanks... And enjoy the con!! I hope you give a passing thought to those of us stuck on the other side of the continent. (This whole being an adult with a job kinda sucks sometimes.)
1. You probably are reading a bit too much into a statistical sample of three. Plus, keep in mind that the Manhattan Clan doesn't exactly have deeply held traditions in naming. The whole concept is fairly new to them.
1a. I think Angela does think about it. But keep in mind, she was group raised. This way, as a parent, she has more children to love. That suits her fine.
2. I'm SO not telling.
4. They will eventually play a roll. Technology-wise, the rest of the world has caught up to them. I wouldn't fully re-intro them right away, although their leader will be kidnapped along with Alex.
5. You worry too much. I should have such worries.
The New Olipians said Elisa was the first human to visit in 2000 years, does that mean another human has visited, or is that when the built the city?
Others have been there. Just not recently. Also the island wasn't quite as isolated at first.
Do the New Olimpians worship the old greek gods (Zues, Hera, Aires)?
Worship, no. Honor, some.
In Greek mythology, the original Boreas had a pair of sons, named Calais and Zetes, who were portrayed as having wings. Was this what inspired the notion of the New Olympian Boreas having wings?
Yes. Also, we'd be meeting his sons eventually.
At the end of "The New Olympians", Taurus, after discovering how Elisa had risked herself to stop Proteus from destroying New Olympus, comments that she is not like the "humans of legend". Was this particular phrase intended as a sort of "double-meaning one"? While the obvious and immediate meaning is the humans of the New Olympians' legends, the evidence presented in the episode is that the same humans who mistreated them and drove them into hiding in their tales were, or included, the heroes of Greek legend such as Theseus, so that "humans of legend" could mean as much the humans of our legends as the New Olympians'. Was this intended as being the case?
Yeah. Plus the on-going reversal in this episode. Like Gargoyles of legend or Olympians of legend. Here we were taking the point of view of these mythical creatures, to whom humans were the legendary "Other" that we've been talking about recently. Just part of the on-going exploration of the shows core themes, seen from the other side.
Do any of the New Olympians look as human in their natural forms as Alex?
After the arrival of the New Olympians in New york city would the new Olympians be keen on sharing their technology and scientific discoveries with humanity?
Cautions, not keen.
What kind of government does New Olympus have?
How does the New Olympus cloaking field work? Does it make it invisible from sensors and our eye?
From outside, yes.
You said that the New Olympians had something better than nuclear tech could you tell us what it is?
Zeracoy Enex Power.
(I just made that up.)
What faction does Sphinx's family belong to?
It's a big family. But most are in Ekidna's Isolationist faction.
Why is Proteus an insane mass murderer?
Not enough iron in his diet.
Who was the father of the original minotaur? Was it fay?
Who was the person that bore the Minotaur's children? What happened to her?
Was the minotaur locked in the Labyrinth on Crete really slayen by Thesus?
1. I guess if you say ORIGINAL minotaur than at least one of his parents was fay.
2. I'm not revealing these details at this point.
3. Yes. Though exactly what happened there is subject to many interpretations.
Happy Fourth of July
What does Sphinx's family's think of her relationship with Terry?
What does Terry's family think of his relationship with Sphinx?
Neither family is thrilled.
(And it's still June. But you're not far off.)
Man, they just keep coming!
The new Olimpiens, I get the felling that they are not a group of Oberon's children, yet they all seem to differn't to be of one race. Are they a group of many differn't races living together to help ech other, there seemed to be only one of each kind (ie. centaur, winged guy, fire dude).
OK, that will be the last one for awhile I think, at least till my others get answered
It's not like you saw every New Olympian on the island. Talos is a robot. He's a citizen. There are Gargoyle New Olympian citizens as well.
But most are a single hybrid race descended from the mingling of Oberon's Children with various mortals. They are almost all compatible enough to breed with each other.
Who exactly is Terry's mother? Has she been mentioned or seen in the series?
Another try at sending this out-
I just typed up a particularly long question that didn't post and got lost, and I was foolish not to copy it somewhere before hitting submit. I apologize if it turns up later and this becomes a double post, and also if I can't get rid of the autoformating in Word and it looks a little screwy. After losing that long a question I am not taking a chance working directly into the web page.
It has been a long time since I posted a question... of course it has been a long time since I have been caught up with your answers. After reading all of the new responses, particularly those dealing with Oberon and Titania, a question has come to mind. [Actually two, but how many new ways can you ask, "What did Titania whisper to Fox?"? That question should almost have its own section.] The short form of the question is this: Just how different are Oberon's hildren from humans? I am not referring to physical or magical characteristics, but rather do they think in a quantifiably different way than do humans?
The long version of the questions comes after the long digression:
A while back a friend practically shoved an anthology into my hands and insisted I read a particular article. I believe it was called, "Hamlet in the Bush". The gist of it was that a young anthropologist found herself with an indigenous culture for a long boring stretch. [She had thought the off season would be a wonderful time to get to observe their culture. Had she asked them they would have told her the off season is the off season because the weather is so miserable that they cannot even visit the next village. They spend the time drink the local equivalent to bear waiting for it to pass.]
Before leaving she had had an argument with a friend. She argued that at base all humans are the same and once you do some explaining to take care of cultural differences, a great work of literature would be recognized as such by all people. The example that was bandied about was Hamlet, so he gave her a copy as a going away present.
With nothing else to do she sat in her tent and read it over and over until the locals asked her what on Earth she was doing. They were a non-literate culture and to them reading papers meant reading boring legal documents. Even a white person could not be so daft as to spend weeks doing so. She seized upon it an opportunity to test her theory and they, being a story telling culture, were happy to oblige.
She immediately ran into two problems:
-1-They didn't have a concept of "ghost". Zombie, yes. Evil spirit in false guise, yes. But the idea of a dead person's spirit hanging around this world was simply ludicrous to them.
-2-They thought Claudius was a great guy. He acted as an exemplary uncle and brother-in-law, although he waited a bit long in taking care of his brother's household. [Three whole months! And with only one wife to tend the fields!]
In the end they loved the story (with their corrections) and thought she was on her way being a great storyteller, (being female aside). They also told her to be sure to tell her elders that they had been good hosts and had corrected her misremembering lest she continue in error.
I think her premise held, but she hadn't realized how far cultural difference went. The more complex the story, the more it was tied to its own cultural assumptions and the harder it is to explain to another culture.
Back to Gargoyles-
In Gargoyles the basic emotions seem pretty much universal. Gargoyles, humans, New Olympians, and even Nokar and Matrix as far as we have seen them, display them. Love, hate, curiosity and fear, as well as slightly more complex emotions of protection and loneliness are clearly expressed and are more easily understood than some lost cultures of our own ancestors. Are Oberon's Children fundamentally different, or if we can imagine long enough the effects of great power and incredibly long lives we can empathize without too much brain-sprain?
There are great works of speculative fiction that try to understand the mind of The Other. Zelazny had a whole series of stories of robots worshiping and trying to understand the long last human race. I recently read a great book called "Exogesis" (a post-modern Prometheius) by Astro Teller dealing with how a newly emerged AI might think and how humanity might respond. If I would list every book I could think of on the topic I will never stop typing and will eventually have feel the urge to start listing plays and movies as well, (and probably have to deal with Frankenstein, and I am not fond of the book. It is hard to like a book when you hate the main character. Perhaps the movies were right to make the monster the lead character. :).
It all boils down to this: Are the Children of Oberon "the Other", or something very much like ourselves?
Boy this is long! sorry.
Don't apologize. It's fascinating.
Boiling it down...
Are Oberon's Children fundamentally different, or if we can imagine long enough the effects of great power and incredibly long lives we can empathize without too much brain-sprain?
I'd have to say the latter. Great power. Little or no responsibility. Long lives. Being able to look however you feel at a given moment. You add these things up and they may seem other for awhile. But fundamentally, it's about extrapolation on our human emotions.
Because fundamentally, as a writer, what else can I do? Maybe someone else has the talent, ability, INTEREST in truly creating the OTHER. But not me. I'm interested in US. Gargoyles, humans, Oberon's Children. Toss in the New Olympians, Nokkar, the Space-Spawn, the Lost Race, etc. I'm fundamentally interested in figuring out what makes us real world humans tick. Or boil it down further, and I'm fundamentally interested in figuring out what the hell makes ME tick. All the characters in the Gargverse are just there as an alternative to me being in therapy, I guess.
Does that make sense?
Is New Olympian society a Patriarchal society in which males are in charge or is everyone equal regardless of gender? as a woman I get really offended when some men say that woman belong in the home, as a comedian on t.v. impersonating Artimis greek goddess of the moon and virgins once said 'all right girls down with men" I totally agree with her, right Matt (not the cartoon Matt but the Matt on this question server)
You lost me toward the end there.
Anyway, no. New Olympus isn't strictly patriarchal. HOWEVER, like our own society, there are remnants of patriarchy still extant. Ekidna holds an important position. Sphinx will too, eventually. But at the moment, the three biggest wigs are Boreas, Taurus and Talos. All guys.
Who has more power in terms of electricity a Labyrinth mutate or Jove of the NOs?
Probably Jove. But I'm not big on this kind of question.
Who was Helios decended from?
Lots o' folk.
1. Was the Ekidna in New Olympus a descendent of Echinda of mythology?
a.If so which one of the monster children was she descended from?
b.Why doesn't she look anything like Echinda who had the face of a human?
a. I'm not going into that now.
b. She has multiple ancestors.
Does Daedalus exist in the Gargoyles Universe? If so was he a scientist or was he a magic user?
How did the first Talos work? Gears? Magic?
Who created it?
As to the who, it was, I believe a team effort. Daedelus and Hephaistos worked on it together.
You said that the ancestors of the New Olympians were the Olympians. Are these Olympians the gods who sat on Mount Olympus or are these Olympians something else entirely?
The ancestors were the "gods and monsters" of legend. Many of whom were known as the Olympian Gods of Ancient Greek and Roman mythology.
Most of them were of the Children.
Taurus said that Elisa Maza was the first human to visit New Olympus in over 2000 years meaning that around the time Christ was born, a human must of accidently stumbled on to New Olympus can you give discription of what must have happen to this human when he accidently dicovered the secret island?
I can, yes.
Why does Terry's mother become the UN ambassador to New Olympus?
What exactly is his mother's profession?
She's a diplomat.
Did the New Olympians made any great advances in the field of genetic engineering? Are New Olympian scientists at present capable of turning someone like Matt (not the cartoon Matt the Matt on this question server that always trys to condidict me) into a mutate like Sevarius did with Derek?
I don't think that's been of interest to them. They're pretty diverse as it is.
Some monsters in Greek Mythology were once human for example Athena the Greek goddess of wisdom turned Medusa a very beautiful woman into a snake haired monster because Medusa had a love affair with Poisiden. I was wondering are any of the New olympians desended from humans who were turned into monsters by the fay?
Descended? It's possible, I guess.
But I'm not currently going to commit to any specific myth.
If Proteus is a villain for NO then how does he get off New Olympus to menace our protagonists or does he stay on NO?
I'm not going to get into the specifics of how he escaped at this time. But he does.
Why does Terry and Sphinx fall in love with each other? Afterall Sphinx isn't even human?
And Terry isn't even Olympian. And Romeo wasn't a Capulet. And Juliet wasn't a Montague.
Why do any two people fall in love?
What an odd question.
Why would the Eternal looking NOs think that humans would worship them?
Cuz once upon a time they did. And cuz they have power. And cuz they want to believe it.
What other New Olympians were you planning to introduce besides Ekidna, Medusa, Chiron, Jove, Helios, Boreas and his son?
Eventually, lots. But you've covered the biggies for the time being. (If you throw in Taurus, Talos, Sphinx and Proteus.)
BTW. Kiron. Not Chiron.
What's with all the "anonymous" posts, anyway?
What are Talos and Taurus's function in the show? Are they also ambassadors to the UN?
Also? Taurus is the primary ambassador from New Olympus. Talos is his advisor. Sphinx is an aide.
How does Terry become the ambassador to New Olympus?
He doesn't. His mother does.
You said that Sphinx was a student so what does she study?
Among other things... humans.
You once said that you had a medusa character in NO that was eventually replaced by Sphinx. So did you take out the medusa character because you wanted to show that there were also human looking NOs?
Sphinx isn't particularly human-looking. She's certainly less human looking than Boreas, for example.
Mostly we took out Medusa in a lead role, for two reasons...
1. We thought she'd be very hard to animate. So we wanted to be able to use her sparingly.
2. I liked the ability to use angelic imagery for the first meeting of Terry and Sphinx.
So have you planned a crossover with the casts of Pendragon, Bad Guys, Gargoyles and New Olympians appearing in the same episode?
When the New Olympians moniter humanity do they moniter events like someone getting dressed or taking a shower? If they do I bet they get to see a lot of heaveanly bodies.
No. They monitor broadcasts.
obviously Elisa told Matt about many of the World Tour adventures (i.e. Hunters Moon- Easter Island Statues) did she tell him about the New Olympians? did she tell any other humans? did Goliath and co. tell the trio and Hudson about the New Olympians?
My guess is that Elisa told Matt some of their adventures, but not everyone. She probably left out the New Olympians as (a) not her secret to reveal and (b) not the most fun adventure for her.
But I'm guessing that either Goliath or Angela eventually told Hudson and the Trio EVERYTHING.
1. In the GARGOYLES universe, is the classical Greek legend of the Minotaur (as being born from the union of Pasiphae, Queen of Crete and wife of Minos, and the white bull sent by Poseidon) true?
2. If you consider the Minotaur "a New Olympian before the term existed" or something like that, and if the answer to the above question is yes, do you see the white bull as fae? Assuming you consider
3. What about Chiron? Do you see him as the son of Cronus and the nymph Philyra?
I'm not going to reveal these details at this time. Sorry.
1. If the New Olympians are slightly more advanced than humans, why do they not take an interest to explore space? Or go somewhere else, like a new planet, to get away from humans if they fear them? I mean surely they could build something to liftoff without possibly getting detected by our satellites (if they even know that we have satellites in orbit and that we've already been to the moon and back).
2. Or is this only a human trait to explore? If so, does this make the New Olympians similiar to gargoyles, since gargs don't really seem to take an interest in exploration either?
3. And lastly, if you would get your show back, would you explain better the past history relations between mankind and the Olympians, because I'm kinda interested to know really why the Olympians left the humans, and why no human who lived then left any trace of the Olympians existence. (I know there could be a massive story behind this)
1. I'm not sure that's as easy as you make it sound. But also, they are isolationist. Not explorers. And certainly finding a habitable planet isn't as easy as you make it sound. And finally, why would they WANT to abandon their home AGAIN?
2. No, I don't think it's a purely human trait. But the New Olympians have a cultural imperative toward isolation.
3. Yeah, I'd love the chance to go into more detail.
did the New Olympians leave to go to New Olympus all at once or was there a gradual migration to the island?
Hi Greg. I just want to clarify two questions I had previously asked you, in hopes of getting a better response.
1) Roughly how many NO are of gargoyle descent? (you answered "huh?", perhaps because the preceding question had already asked how many full-blooded NO gargates there were). Previously, you implied that non-gargoyle NO's may have mated with gargoyles. My question was meant to uncover whether there were any/many gargoyle half-breeds on New Olympus. Are there?
2) How will the NO clan be discovered by the outside world? (you said, "They will reveal themselves in front of the United Nations Building." We know that this is how the NO delegation will appear, but you have also implied that the NO gargoyles will be a bit more reluctant to reveal themselves. Looking over my question, I know that you may have decided to interpret "NO clan" to mean NO's in general (and the NO gargoyles may in fact have adopted the whole island as its "clan")). So, in case I get a different response, let me rephrase the question to ask: How will the NO gargoyles be discovered by the outside world?
1. Or perhaps I said 'huh' because I didn't know that 'NO' meant New Olympians. Anyway, Vash, as I'm sure you've gathered by now, I'm not much of a numbers guy. I'm not going to quantify things for you.
2. Over time.
is Proteus the only shapeshifter on New Olympus when Goliath and co. visited? or, at least, is he the only shapeshifter with his range of abilities?
I'm not saying at this time.
Did you ever plan a crossover between the Redemption Squad, Gargoyles, Pendragon and New Olympians?
You mean all at once?
Why does Boreas resemble Highfather?
There's no doubt that Kirby strongly influenced the entire NEW OLYMPIAN concept.
Having admitted that gladly, I don't think they look that much alike. Boreas is long and lean, with strange eyes and wings. Highfather is big and bulky, with a completely different attire.
The only thing they really have in common is a white beard.
Elisa Maza for a human is extremely beautiful and attractive. Do you think that the New Olympians when they first saw her saw her as a very beautiful organism since some of the New Olympians looked extremly ugly.
Eye of the beholder, my friend.
1a) How are the majority of New Olympians educated? Are they forced to have an education? Up to what level (relative to our own system) have most of them been to? (highschool? college? post-grad?) Do they all understand advanced calculus, for example? b) Are any (if not all) NO gargoyles similarly educated?
2a) Is the majority of the NO population educated well enough to understand their island's technology? b) Roughly how many people are in charge of research and development and maintaining this technology? (tens? hundreds? thousands?). c) Would this group include any gargoyles?
3a) While I'm at it, roughly how many people live on NO? (hundreds? thousands? millions?) b) Roughly how many full-blooded NO gargates are there? c) Roughly how many NO are of gargoyle descent?
4) How will the NO clan be discovered by the outside world?
1a. Forced? In the sense that kids have to go to school? I guess. But they aren't conscribed into education. Most want a good education. Most get it.
1b. Some are, yes.
2a. A good chunk.
2b. I don't know.
3a. The low thousands.
3b. About 100 or so.
4. They will reveal themselves in front of the United Nations Building.
In the proposed spin off series The new Olympians you said something about David Xanatos trying to take advantage of the New Olympians. Can you give some details on how he might take advantage of them?
Taurus said his ancestor was the Minotaur. Assuming that this Minotaur was the same one of the Labyrinth that Theseus slew, this is kind of odd to me. If the Minotaur has descendants, he must have had children. Who would the mother of these children be, and how would he have come in contact with this female?
Not like the guy spent his entire life in the Labyrinth. Just the last few years.
What species were Zeus, Hades and Poseidon in the Gargoyles universe?
in "The New Olympians" Taurus refers to his ancestor, the Minotaur. was the Minotaur an early New Olympian or the Child of Oberon that gave rise to the minotaur-like New Olympians? having the word "the" in front of Minotaur makes him sound like one of Oberon's Children (as in The Banshe, The Puck, or The Coyote) but the comment's about the Minotaur by Taurus seem to hint that he was not as immortal or magical as one of the Children (being starved and killed).
He was a New Olympian before the term existed. I.e., he was a half-breed. The "the" is probably a reference to his mythic, legendary status.
Are the inhabitants of New Olympus, besides the gargoyles themselves, related to gargoyles?
Most are not.
Wait a minute, Greg. In my first question you told me humans have had more setbacks in our progression than the New Olympians especailly in the 'Dark Ages' (~500-800 CE). Tell me, just about when was it that the New Olympians started despising humans and moved to their secret island? I mean didn't disease or plague ever affect the New Olympians also?
Maybe here and there. But largely, no. Better sanitation probably helped.
when Elisa, Goliath, and co. arrived at New Olympus many Olympians were very shocked to see a human and i guess that is because they didn't think a human would ever end up on New Olympus, at least for a long time, but were some of the Olympians shocked because they didn't even believe humans existed? almost no humans in 1996 believed in gargoyles, Olympians or the third race because of the long seperation from each other for millenia. the New Olympians also had this seperation, why are the tales of human cruelty not considered myths and legends?
They were in hiding. They monitored human transmissions. They knew.
When do suppose the New Olympian clan will make there presence known? You have mentioned that they are somewhat isolationist even with the New Olympians, so it seems unlikely that they would willingly venture into the outside world.
It'll be a while.
where is New Olympus located? somewhere in the Mediterranean? the Atlantic?
If humans make too much 'noise' by changing their environment to suit them instead of adapting to it, are the New Olympians the same when it comes to being in tune with Earth cycles?
In the episode, "The New Olympians", the inhabitants live on an island that has remained hidden from human exploration by a sort of cloaking field, I guess that is what I heard. My question is, how has their technology advanced so quickly than that of the human-colonized world, when they have existed just as long as humans? I hope this has nothing to do with human wars or slow intellectual progression among our race over the centuries.
We humans have had setbacks, certainly, scientifically. Does the term "The Dark Ages" ring a bell.
They made steady progress and had a few breakthroughs that we still haven't had.
1)Are there female minotaurs on the island of New Olympus?
Oh I forgot to to tell you this before. Gargoyles is one of the best aminated television shows ever made. You did a pretty good job of creating a world filled with Gothic fantasy and adventure.
1) In the Egyptian episode, "Grief," Angela suggests that the sphinx looks like giant gargoyle. We know from the clans contest that there is not currently a clan in Egypt. Was there at one time an Egyptian clan that died out or was destroyed?
2) On a related note, you said that the New Olympus gargoyles left Greece with the New Olympians. Again from the clan contest we know that there is not currently a Greek clan. Assuming there was once a Greek clan, did they all go to New Olympus, or did some stay behind to die out or be destroyed?
3) I'm not asking you to tell the stories now, but do you have them planned out for use perhaps in Timedancer?
(Note: I'm thinking about gathering a list of "untold stories" you've hinted at. [Greg replies: "I know, but I'm not telling now."] The more unanswered questions I come up with, the more eager and impatient I am for the return of Gargoyles.)
2. The latter. Though not all the New Olympian gargs came from Greece. Some came from other mediterranean locations.
3. Which stories?
When the New Olympians arrive in New York in the future would Taurus try to seek out Elisa Maza and her Gargoyles?
You can be sure they'd meet up eventually.
Will any New Olympians in the future ever leave New Olympus to live among the humans?
Would any humans worship the new olympians when they reviel themselves to the world?
Any? Maybe a few.
Have any of the New Olympians seen the movie Aliens? and what do they think about it? I am asking these two questions because the New Olympians have ancestors like Medusa and the Minotaur that were slain by a human hero and the movie Aliens has a human hero called Riply who battles and slays the Alien Queen in a power loader suit.
I doubt they've seen the movie.
Hi Greg, this is regarding the New Olympians.
In "The Mirror", Broadway says there are three races...humans, gargoyles, and Oberon's children. But what about the New Olympians? The New Olympians are secluded from the world for centuries, hiding on an island surrounded by a cloaking field. I don't think they are Oberon's children...otherwise they would have been at the Gathering....so can we say that there is a fourth race indeed called The New Olympians. And if we say that, can we assume that there might be other races as well? Thanks! :-)
Well, you CAN assume that Broadway was only talking from his experience and education, not from any kind of omniscience. Which doesn't mean he was wrong.
Did you look at the New Olympian archive? Cuz, I've answered this many times before.
The New Olympians are hybrids. If you want to think of them as a fourth race, you can. But they are (mostly) mixed blood descendents of members of the three races.
Was the original Minotaur slain by Theseus the only minotaur?
1) Do the New Olympians know about Oberon?
2) Do they know the Greek gods were really fae?
3) Did any fae visit New Olympus after Oberon banished them from Avalon?
Did New Olympian scientists ever try to explain the workings of magic scientifically, seeing how it's a tech-driven society but has knowledge of magic?
To some extent.
When you said that the gargoyles on New Olympus were never converted to NO religions and the fact that we never saw any gargoyles (except Goliath, Bronx and Angela) in the episode 'The New Olympians', and that you also said that the gargoyles on New Olympus wouldn't reveal themselves to the world immediately after the New Olympians do, does that mean that the gargoyles on New Olympus live away from the bulk of the New Olympian population?
They are somewhat isolationist, yes. But I hesitate to make generalizations about any group.
Do any of the gargoyles of New Olympus practice any of the New Olympian religions?
Todd> Such scenarios have their root in reality - whereever a minority is oppressed by a majority, you'll get the individuals who'll fight back hatefully and the individuals who'll want to live in harmony.
In my opinion it's *extremely* silly to think that Gargoyles could be copying the X-men when both were obviously copying the real world...
Now X-Men and the *New Olympians*... well that's a whole other story. :-)
New Olympians is influenced by Jack Kirby's Eternals or New Gods much more than X-Men.
But I think you're missing Todd's point. I don't think we were ever really a Batman rip-off any more than we were an X-Men rip-off. His question was about our concerns. And we were concerned that we'd be PERCEIVED as a Batman rip-off. We weren't concerned about being PERCEIVED as an X-Men rip-off. But frankly, I can't remember why. Because one concern is just as legitimate (or illegitimate) as the other.
What are Taurus's five favorite movies?
I doubt Taurus has seen all of five movies.
1a) Would there be any point in the future when the practice of mortal magic becomes more common than it is at the time of "The Journey"?
b) If so, roughly how long would it take for such a revival to come to pass? (decades, years, centuries?)
2a) Why is it so dangerous to mix fae and mortal magic? Energy is energy, right? And both fae and mortal magic are presumably of earthly origin. So what makes them so incompatible? b) What are the actual consequences of mixing the two?
3) The Archmage was able to bring the Grimorum to Avalon by "bending the rules", and so bypassed Oberon's Law. But in the end, he was still using the Eye to control the Grimorum, and hence, was "mixing magics". Why didn't this have any (visible) consequences?
4a) You've mentioned "ghost magic" before. Would it fall under the "mortal magic" category, or is it a completely different form of magic? b) If it's different, is it safe to mix with mortal or fae magic?
5) Which is the Megalith Dance powered by--fae or mortal magic?
6a) Do any New Olympians possess (or are capable of practicing) "fae" magic? b) Do any New Olympians practice "mortal" magic?
1a. Maybe a tiny bit -- but not until WAY beyond 2198.
2a. Different frequencies maybe. Feedback. I don't know exactly. Just is.
b. BOOM. Usually. Or some other backfiring.
3. The Eye is a bit more flexible. It WANTS to "help".
4a. Another category, I think, maybe, sorta.
b. Not recommended, but less dangerous.
5. Not telling its origin right now.
6a. Maybe, but it's more internalized as "powers" generally.
b. Maybe, but not many. They're a technology driven society.
After the events in "Hunter's Moon", the Manhattan gang are the first gargoyle clan to be revealed to the general public.
1a) Which clan will be revealed next? b) Will it willingly reveal itself, or will it be discovered?
2a) When the New Olympians reveal themselves to the human world, will they also reveal that there are gargoyles living among them? b) Will the majority of the New Olympian gargoyles be open to starting relations with humans themselves?
1a. Don't know.
1b. Don't know.
2a. Not right away.
More qustions on New Olympus
1) You said that New Olympus picks up radio and television shows from the outside, what do they think of shows like Friends, the Simpsons, the David Letterman show, and Star trek?
2) When the New Olympians learn more about human religions will any of them convert to Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, or Sikhism?
1. I think Taurus likes Worf.
2. Anything's possible, but I wouldn't expect mass conversions to anything.
1) Are the new Olympians themselves aware of their fae origins?
2) Re: population of New Olympus thing. What's wrong with quantifying that? I don't want an exact number, I just want a rough guess. A million? More? Half a million? A hundred thousand or thereabouts?
3) If the answer to 1 is yes, do the humans of 2198 know of this? If they do, how do they interprete it without knowing the existence of the fae?
2. I'm not good with numbers. I don't want to put something down here and have to live with it. So I'd rather not answer at all and leave it vague until or unless I have some need to define it.
3. Not answering 2198 questions until the contest is over.
what kinds of problems will the illuminati society create for the New Olympians when they reveal themselves to the world?
That's too complex a question to answer in this format.
A question about the New Olympians question. It's obvious enough why the ones that were viewed as monsters by humans and consequently hunted by them (such as Taurus's minotaur ancestors) would want to flee to New Olympus and shut themselves off from the outside world. But why did the ones who were worshipped as gods decide to withdraw themselves to New Olympus? After all, if they were being worshipped, that would be more of an incentive to remain in the outside world rather than to leave it.
They weren't actually immortal. Humanity was catching up. And nothing gets tired faster with the masses than a "fallen idol".
All this is to say, that there was no ONE reason. But there were many factors.
1. I'm quite interested in the Romeo-Juliet relationship in NO. (Maybe I'm just a romantic) I take it the two involved in it are called Sphinx and Terry Chung?
2. Obviously, Sphinx is a NO. Is Terry a human?
3. Is Terry male or female?
4. What, as vaguely or roughly as you'd like, does Sphinx look like?
Note: I have never seen your NO pitch. *Sob* I've never been to a Gathering!
4. Come to the next Gathering and see for yourself. L.A. 2001. Fourteen announced special guests already (and it's only September). You really don't want to miss this one.
When did the New Olympians flee to New Olympus?
Would any of the spinoffs featured the Pack (or at least members of the Pack) as villains?
Thank you for your time.
Sure. Most. Let's see...
Gargoyles 2158 (revised)
And I wouldn't be surprised if we also saw them in
But I would be surprised if they showed up in
How did the new Olympians get so advanced in their technology? I mean they were completely Isolated from the rest of the world. Where did they get the reasorces? did they get any ouside help? the fae maybe?
Why would they need outside help or resources? They were already VERY advanced by human standards when they first went into hiding.
In your plans for the Gargoyles Universe, the New Olympians were a hybrid race descended from the offspring of human/fay matings back in the period of Greek mythology. However, you mentioned that the notion of the New Olympians pre-dated the making of "Gargoyles", as a separate series originally developed by Bob Kline.
Obviously, in the original notion of "New Olympians" that Kline developed, Oberon's Children wouldn't have been in it. So what was the origin for the New Olympians in the pre-Gargoyles version?
It was even simpler. There were a variety of MORTAL creatures that existed back then. They were worshipped, hunted, etc., etc., etc. Eventually, they joined up and fled to New Olympus. Hid there for centuries.
They no more had an "origin" than the Gargoyles themselves do, as a species.
There was, at one point, a very complex notion that involved them time traveling back at some point and being their own originators, but we dropped it.
I'm doing a report in class and I'm having a hard time I'm compering your cartoon "Gargoyles" to Edith Hamilton"s book Mythology could you tell me how you originated the characters in comparison to characters in Mythology, and why you changed the way Gargoyles live compared to Gorgons you know blah blah blah. It's a comparison and contrast report and i'm having a very hard time with it I know I'm on to something please help! Compare and contrast how you used stuff from "mythology" I have to have a source from you and this is all i found please help!! Plus I'm a girl so I have to do well on this because everyone says I don't know what I'm talking about and this is a "boy's" cartoon. Thankyou sooo much
There was never any particular connection in my mind between Gargoyles and Gorgons. Sorry. I did have a Medusa character in mind for New Olympians. She was largely supplanted by Sphinx. But I was going to use Medusa in a different way if we had done that spin-off.
Gargoyles isn't a boy's cartoon. It's for anyone who likes it, obviously. Don't let anyone tell you different.
But I'm not sure how I can help you. I'm not going to sit here and either (a) write your paper for you or (b) write a paper of my own for you to cite.
In a nutshell, we looked for ways we could adapt mythology that intrigued us into the universe that we had created. We looked for ways to unify and simplify a diverse global mythology, without over-simplifying the characters of that mythology itself. We tried to be respectful and faithful to the ideas the characters and stories suggested to us. But we also tried to make it fit into a dramatic episodic context.
Does that help? It's quotable, I think.
Let me know how it turned out. Post it here when you're done.
How does Hydras, Dragons, Harpies, Cerberus and all other mythological animals/creatures fit in the three races?
Some may have been Children of Oberon (or Mab). Others may have been New Olympians or the like. That is half-breeds. Some may have been exagerations of something else all together.
1) In response to the 'which Coyote' thing in being compared to intelligence with Talos, I mean Coyote 6.0 and 7.0
2) What is it that makes Talos so smart? Extremely advanced AI? Remaining sorcery from Daidolos/a Cyclops' manufacture? All or none of the above?
1. I don't know. I think probably Talos. The Coyote Robot, no matter how smart it gets, will always have a bit of Wile E. Coyote in its make-up.
2. Advanced A.I. mostly. (Keep in mind he's been rebuilt and upgraded many times. Both in hardware and software. Only his basic design style and memory files have remained consistent.)
1) How do the NO gargs look like, considering how vastly different each Gargoyle clan looks from one another..compare the Mayan to the London to the Ishimuran..
2) Since the NOs in NEW OLYMPIANS seem to be divided into these main factions, the peace-with-humanity, the worship-us-you-lousy-humans and the isolationist policy..which side would the majority of the NO gargoyles side with?
1. I'm not gonna commit til I've worked it out with Guler or someone.
2. All three. Sometimes all at once. Hey, it's an election year!
More NO questions, specifically on the characters we saw
1) Is Proteus related to the mythological Proteus?
2) Was that Proteus fae?
3) Would there have been any main NO Gargoyle character in NEW OLYMPIANS?
4) Is Boreas' cool lightning-burst-from-staff thingy a special fae-descended power of his or is that just part of the staff's technological gadgetry?
1. Probably a descendent.
3. Main? No. Recurring, eventually.
4. That's his.
New Olympus questions:
1) In which ocean is New Olympus in?
2) How large is it, roughly? The size of Madagascar?
3) How long has its cloaking shield been in use?
4) What prevented humans from finding it in the times before the shield was in use?
5) Talos spoke of the increasing level of human tech; thisi mplies the NO's have been monitoring humanity. For how long have they done so?
5a) And how do they do it?
5b) And what do they specifically look for to monitor?
6) Do the NO's have nuclear tech?
7) What is the population of New Olympus?
8) How many of that population are gargoyles?
1. It's a secret.
2. Big enough for now.
3. Years and years.
5. Years and years.
7. An exact number? Come on LSZ don't you know me better by now?
8. A percentage.
Which is more intelligent, roughly: Talos, Coyote or the Golem?
Wait, which Coyote?
Is Proteus the only shapeshifter on New Olympus?
Hey there Mr. Weisman,
In an answer to an earlier question about the origins of the New Olympians, you said that the first New Olympians were the result of various fae-mortal unions, and I was just wondering if, in the Gargoyles Universe, all of the original 12 Olympians from Greek mythology would be classified as full-fledged members of the Third Race (i.e. Oberon's Children)?
Thank you and good luck on resurrecting Gargoyles.
Would any of the major characters in NEW OLYMPIANS be one of the NO Gargoyles?
1) Do fae grow weaker magically as they grow older?
2) Is there any limit to how powerful a fae can grow unaided by any magical artefacts?
3) How seriously can fae be hurt by human magic?
4) If gargoyles could develop their own sorcery, would the magic they utilise be identical to human magic?
5) Did the Zeroth/Lost Race use magic?
6) Do the New Olympians use magic these days?
1. Generally, no.
4. Identical? Garg sorcery + human sorcery = mortal sorcery.
5. Zeroth? Who's that?
In the episode The New Olympians Taurus once said to Helios
that he will be out of a job if he didn't do what he was told. Is there such things as poverty and unemployment in New Olympian society like there is today?
Probably. Unemployment certainly. Relative wealth certainly. I'm not sure poverty is permitted though.
1) What religions are there on New Olympus?
2) How many?
3) What is the nature of the more popular religions?
4) Is/are there any organised priesthoods?
5) If so, how much influence do they possess on New Olympian society?
6) Do any of them worship their fae ancestors?
3. Pantheistic, Monotheistic, and everything in between.
Oh, one little bit about my question regarding Xanatos in "The New Olympians". I, of course, knew that "Xavier" was merely a "rejected first-draft" name for our favorite scheming billionaire and did not actually exist in the Gargoyles Universe. Rather, I mentioned it because somebody who'd been to your "New Olympians" speech at one of the Gatherings had told me that there would have been a Xanatos-style character named Xavier in it; I may have misunderstood him.
You did. Or he misunderstood me. XANATOS himself is in the New Olympian pitch. We came up for the idea for New Olympians before Gargoyles. But we brought it back out DURING gargoyles and revised the pitch to include Xanatos.
You once said said that the New Olympians were worshipped as gods. So which gods were New Olympians?
No. I said they were descended from the Olympians that were worshipped and/or feared as the gods and monsters of classical mythology.
I was thinking recently about Demona and the Canmores/Hunters, and it dawned on me that it's a lot like the Montagues and Caputlets of 'Romeo and Juliet'. Both involve two 'families' battling each other over a past greivance, one whose cause unfortunately became lost in the past (for Gargoyles, it's some kid getting slashed in the face, and we never learn the cause in 'R&J'). In both, the drive for revenge becomes the driving force for keeping the feud going. It's kind of tragic that in both stories, something as low as vengence causes so much pain on both sides. So, was that intentional or did I just come across one of those universal themes?
Largely the universal theme thing. The obvious piece that's missing to make it truly parallel R&J is the young lovers. And I don't think that Jason & Elisa really fill those rolls, wouldn't you agree?
I was going to do a much more dead-on R&J riff in NEW OLYMPIANS with Terry Chung and Sphinx.
How much by 2158 does the human world know about the truth of the New Olympians' origins?
I had a question, but I wasn't sure if putting it at the bottom of my last post would violate your 'separate posts' rule or not. Anyway, I recently watched 'New Olympians' and when Taurus tells Proteus( masquerading as Golaith) not to interfere, at the Collonadium(sp?), he wasn't surprised that he hadn't turned to stone. You said once that there were gargoyles on New Olympus. Was Taurus not surprised because some of the gargoyles there don't turn to stone?
If so why don't they turn to stone?
They turn to stone. Taurus was distracted and not thinking.
Hello mr. Weisman
On New Olympus, will the Gargoyle clan be divided in three factions or will they all stay in one faction? If one group, which one?
Haven't thought about that, honestly.
1) If and when you get to do tose Gargoyle Episodes and Spinoffs do you plan to do crossovers like the following:
2) Would you still include the Previously On Gargoyles segments when necessary?
1. 2158(revised) and TimeDancer, definitely.
Dark Ages and TimeDancer, probably.
Pendragon/Bad Guys. Probably, eventually.
Bad Guys/Gargoyles. Definitely.
New Olympians/Gargoyles. Definitely.
New Olympians/Pendragon/Bad Guys - Eventually.
One of my favorite New Olympians was the robot Talos. I was kinda upset when Proteus threw it off that building. Was he destroyed? Did you have further plans for it?
He was badly damaged. But not for the first or last time. He would absolutely be rebuilt and would have been one of the four leads, alongside Taurus, Sphinx and Terry Chung in the NEW OLYMPIANS spin-off that I had planned.
Sorry for the double post Mr. Weisman but #6 on my list was supposed to be Loch Ness, Scotland, not Loch Ness, Spctland. sorry must have slipped by me while proof reading,
Just so this post isn't a total waste of space I have a few Questions about the extent of Proteus' shape shifting ability:
1) Can he morph into any form he can imagine or is he limited to creatures that exist in the real world?
2) In "The New Olympians" Proteus only assumed the forms of living creatures is he limited to only living creatures or can he become inanimate objects?
Thankyou very much.
The typo did not escape my attention. But I covered for you.
1. He's got a lot to choose from already.
Alright, in Hunters Moon, my personal favorite episode, Demona almost unleashed a magical disease that would have killed all sentience. Gargoyles would be immune to it's effects thanks to the Praying Gargoyle.
Now we all know Goliath smashed the statue and saved the world. But what if this was not the case...
1. All humans would have died. Macbeth is obviously human. Would this not have qualified as death at Demona's hands, thus killing Demona (oops)?
2. If not, would she fall prey to it when she turned into human form? How would this work?
3. Would this spread to Avalon and/or the isle of the New Olympians?
4. How would it affect... Oberon's Children?
5. ...New Olympians?
6. ...Gargoyle clones?
7. Any other effects?
Thanks for your time. Love your rambles, by the way, look forward to next season's rambles.
More hypothetical questions... YAY!
1. I've answered this many times before. Try looking through the Demona or Macbeth archives. Briefly, it would depend on Demona's intent.
2. I'm sure she thought she was safe.
3. No reason why it wouldn't spread to New Olympus. No reason why it would spread to Avalon.
4. Potentially not at all.
5. Kill most of them probably.
6. Not at all.
7. Anyone who asks hypothetical questions based on untread pathes would die. :)
What's the New Olympian's religion like?
There isn't just one.
I wasn't planning to post another question until you had gotten to the last batch I posted. I figure how long it takes you to get to Ask Greg is a pretty good indication of how swamped you are. However, it is easier to figure out where to start looking for questions posted since I have last looked when I have a landmark post to start from. I guess I am a bit egocentrical since the landmark has to be of my own making:]
Here's a strange little question- As a fan I am happy whenever you expand the Gargoyle universe, so the inclusion of the New Olympian spin-off, and how well it would compare and contrast to the Gargoyle one was just a big plus. However, now that you pitched it as a Gargoyle spin-off, and, for now at least, it did not happen, do you regret having pitched it? I don't know if Disney has any claim to it from your pitch- but I bet they would have to all the characters we saw in the World Tour ep. I suppose you could redesign and alter it a lot, but it would not be the same and you couldn't pitch it as you picture it to another network. So do you, in part, wish you hadn't connected it to Gargoyles, or has it become an organic part of the Gargoyle universe and you really couldn't imagine New Olympians separately anyway?
Your question pre-supposes some incorrect assumptions. New Olympians was created before Gargoyles, but like Gargoyles it was developed at Disney by Disney full-time employees, so Disney owned it all, independent of whether or not we chose to connect it up to the Gargoyles Universe. So, since it seemed to fit nicely, and might benefit both Universes, we chose to combine them into one Universe. No regrets there.
And by the way, I didn't come up with the initial idea for the New Olympians. The creator of that show was Bob Kline, who was Development Art Director for both New Olympians and Gargoyles, and was later a Director and Producer on Gargoyles. He directed the episode "The New Olympians".
Bob's idea went through a bit of a metamorphosis under my aegis. And we worked on it closely together. Greg Guler was brought in to help design some of the characters. But Bob should get credit for his contribution.
Do the New Olympian gargoyles protect New Olympus the way other clans protect an area?
According to what I've heard about your discussion of "The New Olympians" spin-off that you'd planned at the Gatherings, Xanatos would have shown up in it as a sort of trading partner to New Olympus, both under his own name and under Xavier. You've mentioned here earlier that Xavier was the "first-draft" name for Xanatos, back when "Gargoyles" was going to be a comedy series. Was Xavier/Xanatos originally created for the "New Olympians" series when it was first thought up, before "Gargoyles" came along, and then transfered to "Gargoyles" when "New Olympians" didn't get off the ground (the same as the New Olympians themselves eventually)?
First off, there is no Xavier in the Garg Universe. The Xanatos name completely took it's place. And Xavier never appeared in the New Olympian Pitch. We pitched New Olympians first, pre-Gargoyles. (Based on an idea by Bob Kline.) Then after Gargoyles was up and running, we trotted the New Olympian pitch back out, made some minor changes, including the addition of Xanatos and pitched the show again. Still with no success.
But Xanatos was created for Gargoyles. Adding him to New Olympians, was an afterthought.
We know how Taurus views the fate of the original Minotaur at Theseus's hands. In your opinion, how does Sphinx view the fate of the original Sphinx (the one who met Oedipus)?
Haven't thought about it. Probably about the same.
This got lost in the queue, so I'll post it again.
Why did Micheal did the voice of Taurus, even if he is doind the voice of coldstone?
Michael Dorn was a natural to play Taurus. It was a very Worf-like character in many ways. But because we already had used him as Coldstone, we decided to hire someone else. That person did NOT work out well at all. (That entire episode was a problem. We had another Proteus and another Boreas as well.) Since we had to re-spend the money to recast so many people, I didn't want to take any chances the second time. (There was no way that we'd be allowed a third chance.) So we went with three people we knew we could count on, i.e. Roddy McDowell as Proteus, Dorian Harewood (am I spelling these correctly?) as Boreas and of course Michael Dorn as Taurus.
Anonymous> Hey, there's a *big* difference between Helius and Apollo! Jeez! :-)
And the New Olympian Helios had flaming hair, but did the Greek God Helios have it? Not that I recall.
1) How long did it take for the New Olympians to develop their technology to the level seen in New Olympians?
2) In any respects are any of the three races involved in the Space-Spawn war less advanced than what we've seen of Earthly technology? Meaning is there anything in particular technologically Earth has that the aliens don't have? Like say, Sevarius' genetic manipulation, the NO's anti-gravity, Xanatos' Matrix..
3) How advanced were Gargoyles technologically by the time humanity came along? Stone Age-tech?
4) Castle Wyvern is a large stone-built fortress that looks like it was built using construction techniques and concepts that didn't appear in Europe until after the Crusades(I think). So why, in the Gargoyles universe, are the Europeans of 994 more advanced than in history? What in-universe explanation is there?
5) King Arthur of the 6th century seems to wear at least partial plate armour that didn't appear until the 1400's? what's the in-universe explanation here?
1. Until 1996.
2. Generally, they are more advanced than us. But I won't rule out the possiblility that we might not be able to surprise them.
3. Not very. It was unnecessary to their life-styles. Humans are a much more adaptable race, for better and for worse.
4. In universe, I don't need an explanation if I don't feel like dealing. They just are. Perhaps less was forgotten. Perhaps magic was involved. Perhaps our knowledge is flawed.
5. He had access to sources of Armor that most people didn't. We assume that these things didn't EXIST until later. All we KNOW is that they weren't prevalent until later.
Hi (don't stay up night too long)
In all the spinoffs, you mentioned vilains that will show up, like: in Pendragon Duval is the main ennemy and in 2158: the Space-Spawns will be the main threat. What about Timedancer and New Olympians?
Will there be a main vilain in Timedancer and New Olympians?
New Olympians is easy... There's Proteus of course, plus Jove (and his crew, including Helios and Boreas' son) and Ekidna (and her crew, including Kiron and her reluctant daughter Medusa). Plus the usual suspects. Xanatos, Sevarius. You know.
TimeDancer's trickier. I haven't fully decided if there's one over-riding villain. Calaban's a possiblity. So's the Archmage-Plus, believe it or not. I have one story for him for sure. Then there's Constantine. And the Space-Spawn. Duval. Mab. Like I said, I haven't decided.
Hello I'm a really big fan of Gargoyles, I watch the show all the time.
Well here's my Q.
Is there anywhere on the web that your spin-offs are in print, or are they only at the gatherings?
Pretty much only at the Gathering. But you can get a lot of info on them by checking the following ASK GREG archives...
Are there other sentient races living on the Earth besides fay,halflings,humans and gargoyles?
If so could you name them.?
And the New Olympians (though they're a spin-off race of the fae).
You've indicated that many of the Greek gods (though not all of them) were "New Olympians" - well, before they became *New* Olympians. Now, the Greek gods were particularly noted for their humanlike appearance, especially in contrast with such cases as the animal-headed gods of ancient Egypt (such as Anubis) or the multi-armed gods of India. They all looked like normal humans (if better-looking, with the exception of Hephaestus), and were depicted thus in classical art.
The New Olympians, on the other hand, nearly all seem to have a not-fully-human appearance, fitting more into the category of the animal/human hybrids such as minotaurs, centaurs, sphinxes, echidnae, and other such beings of the Greek myths. The only one of them that looked human all the way was Proteus in his regular form. So, were the Greek gods of Olympus less anthropomorphic in the Gargoyles Universe than the artistic depictions of them by Phidias and the rest claim? Or are there more "human-appearing" New Olympians out there that we didn't get to see during the episode? (Given that the New Olympians only showed up in one episode of the series, that does seem quite possible, I'll admit; there wouldn't have been that much time to introduce them).
Jove is very humanesque. And aside from the flaming 'do, so is Helios. And except for the wings, so is Boreas. It's a pretty big mix.
But also, I never said ALL of the Greek gods were pre-New New Olympians. Some of them were Children of Mab.
When you say 'clans' you mean a clan right? In other words..you are not ONLY including Gargoyles right? I mean, when Goliath invited Derek to join his clan, Derek responded saying that he now had his own. And The New Olympions have gargs..but they arent pure either. I just was wondering if it was within the bounderies of the contest to ask this question. Define clan for this contest. Gargoyle only?
That doesn't mean that these clans don't have honorary members (as Elisa is to the Manhattan clan).
But I'm not sure what your referring to with regard to the New Olympians. Unpure?
Well if *you* can ramble about Theseus, so can I. :-)
I think that his lifepath began even before his conception. Childless Aegeus, goes to the Delphi to ask how he may get children - the oracle warns him *not* to drink wine; tells him how *not* to have children (which implies that it predicts either Aegeus's own death due to Theseus or Theseus' other deeds)
Aegeus doesn't understand the oracle, but Pittheus does - he gets him drunk and has him sleep with Aethra, Pitheus's daughter. It seems he desires to have his grandson on the throne of Athens - and for that cause he doesn't mind using his daughter. So Theseus is a "bastard" - but not the bastard of a love relationship, not even a bastard caused by lust such as Arthur was. He is a bastard whose birth was just a means to an end, a product of politics.
This *has* to screw him up in some ways. His father figure Pittheus is using him. Aethra never cared for Aegeus, and was herself used by her father in the worst way imaginable - could she subconsciously resent her own son because of that? And his relationship with his real father Aegeus begins through the test he places on him to see if he's worthy - talk about conditional love! Given the relationships which created him, it's no wonder that all the relationship he gets into are twisted and diseased in some way.
Then there's his idol: Heracles. While Theseus is still a kid Hercules comes to Troezen - among the children Theseus is the only one who is not terrified by the lion-skin that Hercules is wearing. He has to have noticed the admiration that everyone was giving to Hercules.
And even if Theseus can't know love, he *can* know admiration. So, when he grows up he goes out of his way to do heroic deeds - most other heroes of antiquity (Jason, Bellerophon, even Hercules to a large extent) had their quests forced on them - others like Odysseus simply stumbled upon heroism. But Theseus pursues heroism. He kills the robbers. But his sickened sense of relationships manifests itself: He 'ravishes' the daughters of both Sinis and Cercyon. One could think of a version where this is consentual - but in my mind it seems more reasonable to think that he saw them as trophies and rewards and didn't care what they thought.
He goes to Athens and once again pursues heroism by going to Crete: so as to kill the Minotaur, he doesn't hesitate to promise marriage to Ariadne - manipulation through lust once again - even though he already had a lover (Periboea) among the young women on the ship. He kills Ariadne's half-brother (the Minotaur) and her full brother Deucalion. And then he abandons her because of the wishes of the gods - but even if it was his own idea I don't mind that one - a woman who'd cause her brothers' death isn't one I'd like sleeping next to me - after all Medea was the last famous woman who did that, and Jason would have been better off if he had abandoned her also...
I agree that Antiope is the most 'equal' relationship he gets into, the most genuine one - Antiope seems to truly love or atleast be attracted to Theseus. But we can't forget that Theseus' mission to the Amazons was originally nothing more than another of his heroic quests: He went with the goal of kidnapping their queen - she was (in the beginning atleast) just another trophy... And in one version of the story he treats her as such abandoning her and marrying Phaedra (though in most versions Hippolyta dies
fighting on his side)
His wedding with Phaedra is once again loveless - no need to expand on that. And after his son's death he has to simply not know what to do but fall back to his own habits seeking something he can't have, vainly pursuing happiness through "heroism": And in the case of Helen, all his negative traits, his lovelessness, his rashness, his viewing women as trophies all manifest themselves...
So in my opinion he *is* a tragic character - His deeds seem to have been sprung through the situation which bore him - I can have pity and understanding for him as the product of an extremely disfunctional family. And he's a fascinating character: But if he's a hero, then I see him as providing a dark vision of what heroism can do when it's sought after, rather than stumbled upon.
Aris, as always, please ramble all you like...
You're version of the myth however, includes things that mine doesn't. This creates two obvious possibilities:
1) My version is whitewashed.
2) Your version is biased.
Either way, we've got some propaganda going.
Now it would be easy to assume that 1 is more likely than 2. After all, most of what we know from Greek myth, we know via the Athenian culture, where Theseus was a hero. One would tend to think that they'd want to present their guy in the best possible light -- thus the whitewashing. It's also possible that the Athenians told the story straight, and that the whitewashing came down the centuries as people tried to make Theseus more of a roll model than he really was.
But I'm going to argue (from a pro-Thesean bias that I'll admit up-front) for #2. Because I think both versions of the myth come from Athens. Take the negative slant on Pittheus, for example. That sounds like propaganda to me. Aegeus has a kid out of wedlock. Don't blame the Athenian king, blame that Troezen trickster Pittheus. But the trickster (or villain label) doesn't sit with the old man that well. There's no hint of godly justice taking him down for that bit of nefarious business. No hint in the myths that he was trying to push young Theseus to claim the throne of Athens or to unite the kingdoms under Troezen control. So I prefer to assume something different. I prefer to think that there was something real between Aethra and Aegeus. I won't necessarily say love, since they hardly knew each other. But I'd like to think they made a real connection. And they made love. I'd also like to think that after Aegeus left, Poseidon showed up in Aegeus' form, and that he and Aethra made love too. That way NONE of them (including Poseidon) really know whether Theseus is the son of a king or of a god.
At any rate, Aegeus and Aethra didn't marry. Marrying a king is big business. Again, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. He was straight with her. She still wanted him. They swam out to the island. Shared a sweet night together. And he swam off, but not before leaving provisions as to what to do in the UNLIKELY event that the union resulted in issue. (Remember, he thought he was sterile.)
She didn't throw a fit. And even after she discovered she was pregnant, she let things ride. Pittheus raises the boy without complaint. Teaches him to be a man. At any rate, I don't believe he grew up not knowing love. I think his mother loved him. I think his grandfather loved him. So I won't give him that excuse for anything he did, good or bad.
As for the Herakles stuff... Well, sure young Theseus might have been impressed, but he always took Herc with a grain of salt. Yes, Herc inspired him to "Great Deeds", but I'm not sure that's as bad as you make it sound. And Theseus was always the thinking man's hero. Always using brains as often as -- or more often than -- brawn. And always in control of his faculties, never going mad and slaughtering loved ones mindlessly. Later, when Herc and Theseus went on a few adventures together, he helped keep the big man from going berserker.
Did he rape the bandits' daughters? I hope not. I'm not sure they ever existed. They're not IN every version of the myth. Again, keep in mind, Athens (or at least Athenians) would have been of two minds on Theseus. Yes, he was their hero. But he also abandoned them. Do you love him for the good days? Or do you revile him for the bad? Maybe, a little of both. And maybe both sides twist his story a bit to suit their interpretations. I can't help thinking the truth is in the middle.
Because, NO, I don't think Theseus is a good roll model. He's clearly more fascinating than flat-out heroic. And he didn't end nearly as well as he began. And there's no divine redemption either. No Herculean ascent to Olympus. No godhood. He is human right until the end. And probably after. He is a bastard. In all the negative and misunderstood and put-upon and over-coming connotations of the term. ALL OF THEM.
But back to the narrative...
Was it rape? Were they even the bandits' daughters? Or might they have been slaves that he set free (after a party)? I don't know. But again, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Because, I see this YOUNG Theseus as a guy struggling to be Lancelot. He's not like Lancelot. He's too damn clever for his own good to really play the Lancelot roll. Too much of a bastard. But he's trying, I think. Inspired not by the true Herakles but by the big man's press, he's setting out as a knight errant to do right. So that he can walk into Athens as a MAN. As someone who DESERVES his birthright. That's the kind of boy that I think Pittheus and Aethra raised. (As I've mentioned before, my thinking is heavily influenced by Mary Renault.)
It's the noble Lancelot in him that sends him to Crete. And yes, of course he kills the Minotaur. The New Olympians may have gotten us to look at this another way, but from his point of view the Minotaur is an out-and-out monster, literally eating the youth of Athens. And the people of Crete, who keep their dirty secret locked up and feed it on the tribute children of their conquered enemies aren't much better (or are arguably worse) than the creature itself. So I shed no tears for Ariadne's brother. This was a rebellion of slaves against their evil masters. If Deucalion got in Theseus' way, so be it.
As for his Athenian lover, well, again, I'd like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I'm assuming, for starters, that by custom if not inclination, that Theseus was bisexual. That most of the Athenian youth were. That desperate people in a desperate situation reached out to each other for comfort doesn't trouble me. That they had multiple partners over (do I have this right?) seven years, doesn't bother me either. I think that Periboea may have been one of many lovers. And that she may have had many herself (of both sexes). This doesn't get in the way of him having sincere feelings for Ariadne. Feelings he believed at the time were true love. Romantic infatuation. A Lancelot looking for his Guinevere, and thinking he has found her.
And I don't need the "Medea-excuse" to justify him leaving her later. I've read enough versions of the myth where Dionysus didn't give Theseus a choice in the matter. And that was before I saw Renault's version wherein -- SPOILERS HERE -- Theseus is horrified to see what Ariadne does during the Dionysian rites. He does still love her. But he won't bring someone capable of that back to Athens as his bride.
And I'm not troubled that his intentions en route to battle the Amazons were less than honorable. After all, he was a king, setting out to conquer. It was part of the job description. Besides, it's what he ultimately did, not what he originally intended that truly frames his character. And I think here, as I've said before, he truly fell in love. A love of equals. One of the ONLY Greek heros to fall for a woman who truly was his equal. Instead of conquering the Amazons, he allies with them. He does right by Antiope, until she dies in battle, by his side. This is the true Theseus. Not the kid looking to be a hero. Not the bitter guy he'd become. This is the hero -- in fact, not by design or default, but defined by his actions. The man who loves equally. Who brings constitutional monarchy to his people. This is the great man. But then she dies. And so it can't last.
Phaedra. Yeah. A political marriage. I like to think he was, at least, fond of her. That maybe he hoped to see a bit of Ariadne in her. But she f**ked with his head. And, yes, he was open to it. He let himself be rashly used. He clearly sinned here. I refuse to absolve him for Hyppolytus' death. But that doesn't mean that I don't think he wasn't more sinned against than sinning. Antiope's death killed something in him. He didn't truly know how to raise Hyppolytus without her. I think he indulged the kid and wound up distanced from him. And he indulged his new young wife and wound up a stranger to her. And then he indulged his own bitter temper. And wound up broken.
Broken, but ironically not bent. He's no longer young. But he's still virile. And in a way, that works out very BADLY for him. No sitting back and enjoying the fruits of his labors. He's got too much damn energy for that. So the energy gets channeled into bad friends, stupid choices and wild schemes.
After Hyppolytus' death, well, I have to agree that it's all downhill. (Though I'd change the subconcious motivations, based on my interpretations.) He doesn't care any more. He's empty. This is the third Theseus. Not the young Lancelot. Not the true hero. But the guy left over. The good-looking, well-trained, virile, vital, empty wreck. He did some truly stupid stuff here. But even with the wildly nutty Helen stunt, I can't help loving him all the more for it.
But that's my problem, I guess. :)
Thanks for the comments on Theseus - I do have to wonder how he'd fit in the Gargoyles universe, especially since it seems that in it much of the minotaur story seems to have been human propaganda... :-)
Another fascinating character connected to Theseus is to me Minos - for different reasons. He has no specific 'heroic deed' attributed to him: on the other hand he has had a long rule of benevolent and just rule, holding a kingdom "of many nations and tongues" together (and yeah, I go by Plutarch's and Plato's belief that the tale of him sacrificing men and women to the minotaur was just a case of Athenean propaganda :-) Such a rule may not have the sparkling heroism of such deeds as those of Theseus and Heracles - yet I wonder if that task was in the end even more beneficient and difficult than the ones of most monster-slayers we hear about...
I really appreciate the suggestion of Mary Renault books - I've definitely put them in my "To Read" list... thanks.
You're welcome. Let me know what you think.
Why didn't the gargoyles on New Olympus reveal themselves to
Goliath and Angela? The rare discovery of other clans was my favorite part of the series so I would have loved to see them.
Good question. And I'm honestly not sure I have a good answer, other than the truth that there wasn't time in the episode to cover THAT too.
Eventually, I'd have had to come up with an answer. Were they present at Elisa's trial? Do they live "in town"? Is they're leader unprepared to make contact with three gargoyles who are making a LOUD point to defend a human being? I haven't decided yet. But now you've got me thinking.
How large do you envision New Olympus's population to be? Counted in a few hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands?
And for that matter how large would New Olympus itself be? And where is it located? (I doubt it's in the Mediterannean because it would have most probably been discovered by humans before they managed to discover the cloaking device...
I'm guessing Atlantic or Pacific. It's fairly big, but not huge. And populated in the thousands.
You mentioned in your post on Sleipnir this evening (January 12) that it's possible that New Olympus might be filled with all manner of "bizarre beasts" that were the offspring of Oberon's Children by animals. Would these include, not only the half-human/half-animal beings that we actually saw in that episode (such as minotaurs and centaurs) but also the fully-animal creatures of Greek mythology (e.g., Cerberus, the Chimera, the Hydra, the Nemean Lion, etc.)? I'd been wondering for some time now about their role in the Gargoyles Universe.
I won't be specific about any of these, but yes, the idea is possible.
Oops, sorry that last one was me.
As long as I'm here I might as well ask those New Olympian questions.
1) What was Spynx's occupation before she became an ambassador to the outside world?
2) When Taurus said Proteus wasn't like other Olympians did he mean that Proteus was the only criminal on New Olympus or that he was the only one that was an insane murderer?
3) On a scale of one to ten, with ten being a sentient android like Data from "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and one being a Steel Clan robot, how inteligent is Talos?
4) Do the Illuminati know about the existence of New Olympus? If not, how would they react when the New Olympians revealed themselves to the human world?
5) If The New Olympians were to become a cartoon show how much of the series would take place in New York and how much of it would take place in New Olympus?
Thank you very much.
2. Generally, the latter.
3. I hate quantifying things. I'm not a numbers guy. He's smart, o.k.?
4b. Quickly and with determination.
5. Again, don't ask me for percentages. A good amount in both, but I also saw the series as international in scope.
You said once that the different varieties of New Olympians have various different life-spans ranging from 13 years to 250 years. Just out of curiosity:
1) Which sub-species of New Olympian (centaur, minotaur, sphinx, winged humanoid a la Boreas, snake-person a la Ekidne, shape-shifter, etc.) do you see as having the 13 year life-span?
2) Which sub-species do you see as having the 250 year life-span?
I won't be held to this, but it seems to me that any New Olympian who has the blood of a species with a short life span would tend to water down the fay blood and lifespan more.
If the show continued, would you might have introduced other mythology characters, such as Pegasus, unicorns, dragons (besides the stone one), etc. If so, would they be considered New Olympians or Fay? And would they speak?
Everything we did would be decided on a case-by-case basis. There's no way to answer this blanketly.
Judging from Sleipnir, as well as the brief appearance of a Pegasus-type animal in 'The Gathering I" and ofcourse from one's of various mythologies... is there a species of non-sentient "fay beasts"? Or is Sleipnir, Pegasus, Fenrir and so on all sentient fays which simply choose animal forms as their 'favourite' ones?
There may be fauna on Avalon. And the magic of the place may have had some small effect on them. Like sorcerous radiation.
But fauna would not have attended the Gathering. So any seeming beast you saw there, like Anansi for example, is one of the Children in a form of his or her choosing. (If you see a polar bear walking around the palace, the odds are it's Odin.)
Now Slepnir is another story. If the legends are true, then Slepnir's mother was the trickster Loki, and his father was an actual horse. Making Slepnir half-horse and half-fey. (Which might serve to explain his modern transition from eight legs to four.) I haven't decided 100% if that's the route I'm taking in the Gargoyles universe, but the notion is appealing.
And it would suggest that New Olympus is filled with all sorts of bizarre beasts who are the descendents of various unions between the fey and so-called lower animals.
I recently saw the "Hercules" episode you wrote, "Grim Avenger"
I laughed my butt off during it. Great job. I particularly liked the bits where Theseus/Grim Avenger kept narrating outloud without realizing it.
I also liked the bits you wrote with Cassandra falling in love with Theseus. She's usually such a cynic, it was fun to see this other side of her.
On the whole, great job. You are great at everything you write.
Thanks. I liked writing that one. I've always loved the Superman/Batman relationship. And Herakles/Theseus is the original. I just pointed it up a bit more.
Though I should say that the wordless stuff where Cass is running across the beach toward Theseus wasn't mine. I guess the board artist added it.
It was also fun to have Michael Dorn playing another Minotaur.
Have the Avalon travellers mentioned New Olympus to the rest of the clan and other friends (Matt, Elisa's family, so on) or are they under a vow of silence or something?
Elisa's not big on info-sharing, so I doubt she's told anyone.
My initial thought was that Hudson and the Trio would be filled in. But maybe not.
Certainly, no one else has been told.
Did Goliath, Angela and Elisa understand that there are gargoyles in New Olympus?
I don't think so.
At the first Gathering you had the BAD GUYS Leica reel, at 98 you had the NEW OLYMPIANS pitch, this year it was Dark Ages. What else can we expect for Gatherings in the future?
That would be telling.
What year was New Olympus founded?
I'd have to research that. Can't tell you off the top of my head.
But I think it was founded long before it was isolated from the rest of the world.
5. What is Jove's rank (or job) in New Olympus society.
Rank? Don't think that applies. He comes from a prominent family. Nobility, I guess.
Job? Haven't thought about it.
A short question once again on the topic of the New Olympians... You said that they are the offspring of humans and members of the Third race - but the other such halflings we've seen (Fox, Alex and almost certainly Merlin) are human-looking. Am I correct in assuming that the appearance of each of the original non-human looking NOs was such because of their fay parent's appearance (at the time of the conception)?
Yeah, either that, or you had some of the children mating with some non-sentients.
Hey, it happens...
I was wondering about the New Olympians.
1) How would you explain that though almost all seem to have come from Ancient Greece, they all seemed to speak in English?
2) Can New Olympians have offsprings with humans or gargoyles? If they can with humans, does that mean that Sphinx and Terry have one less problem in their hands than Elisa and Goliath?
1. Mostly, I cannot. As I've mentioned before, the use of other languages on the World Tour was something I was talked out of. I regret that now. I think we need to assume that the New Olympians had studied English via radio and television transmissions. And that they had the language programmed into some kind of translation devise.
2. It is possible for some New Olympians to successfully mate with humans. So yes, maybe Sphinx and Terry would hav one less problem way down the road. Maybe. But you're way ahead of me, partner. No guarantee that they'd get to that bridge.
A few more questions I forgot to ask last time.
1. Some months ago, I saw a television documentary on gargoyles (the real-world architectural kind) and it said that there were more gargoyles per square foot in New York City than anywhere else in the United States (or something along those lines). Was this a factor in choosing New York as the main setting for the series, or just a coincidence? (I do know that I sat up and took notice at that particular comment when I heard it!)
2. Most of the mythological beings in "Gargoyles" were portrayed as being "Oberon's Children", i.e., members of the Third Race. However, the beings from Greek mythology were portrayed as being from a separate race, if of partly faerie origins: the New Olympians? Just out of curiosity, why did the production team take a different angle for the Greek mythology beings than the ones from Norse, Egyptian, Native American, etc. myth and legend?
3. I read somewhere that Eric Lewald was on the production team for the "X-Men" series on FOX before he worked on "The Goliath Chronicles". Do you think that this could have been a factor in why The Goliath Chronicles took a different angle on gargoyle-human relations (as in, it being taken for granted that the humans would know that the gargoyles were sentient beings); that is, that Eric was seeing "Gargoyles" in an "X-Men"-related light?
4. You've told us a bit about gargoyle religious beliefs; do the Third Race have any form of religion?
1. I was aware that NYC had a ton of gargoyles. (I lived there for two plus years in my DC Comics days.) But I didn't have the stats. So I guess the answer is both.
2. We did and didn't, just for starters. What was revealed was not comprehensive, as I think I've mentioned. But the main behind-the-scenes reason was that we had this ready-made show NEW OLYMPIANS that I wanted to try and get on the air via a "back-door pilot" on Gargoyles. Didn't happen, but I'm glad we tried, and I felt the concept fit rather nicely into the Gargs Universe.
3. I haven't seen Eric in years, but he and his wife Julia Roberts Lewald are good people, who I like a lot. (I attended their wedding.) They're good writers too. And no, that doesn't mean I like what was done on Goliath Chronicles, but I don't think I COULD have liked anything that anyone else did. Anyway, any further speculation on my part is, I believe, inappropriate.
*squeels like a school girl* really??? Someday your really gonna answer the "Whos Lex's mate" Question??? *jumps up and down* YES!!! *grins* one day hey? I'll wait for that!
Ok here are my Q's *smiles*
1.) You said that Gargoyles have a weak sense of smell so that there may be a possibility that Hudson knows that Broadway is his biological son. My question is then, did Goliath ever have the same feeling when he encountered Angela for the first Time?
2.) When Goliath and co. were touring the world we met a lot of differnt cultures. Since we never heard any other langauges spoken or subtitled (VERY understandable) does that mean that we happened to meet up with ppl who all spoke english?
(part 2 of 2)
Or does this have to do with the Phoenix Gate ie. some ability to make all ppl's appear to be speaking Goliath's and Co's langauge?
(part 3 of 2)
If you could have made the call, would you have prefered to have subtitles?
(part 4 of 2)
If you had been able to do the Time Dancer Spin off, which I know wasn't considered, this is just an if..
Then how would you have explained the langauge barriors? Would it have been Brooklyn having to physically learn Japanese or other langauges? Or again does this have to do with the Phoenix Gate and its abilities?
3.) (another TD Q) When Brooklyn returns post TD does he remember fairly clearly the events of the past 40 years? Or is it hazy?
4.)Lots of ppl have asked about the Gargoyles Original origins. Some have guessed things such as dragons or dinosaures. You said in response to this, "mabey". There have also been thoughts that they were created by an independant being. But that is another deal. My question is for the first theory. How Do you explain the fact that some gargs possess facial and other bodily hairs? (Isn't hair only found on mammals)
5.) Some time ago someone asked you about the praying Gargoyle statue. They asked that if Demona would have succeeded would the Olympians Or Oberon's Children survive as well. I think you said something about not being sure about Orberon's children but no to the New Olympians minus the Gargoyles Living there. The Gargoyles living there are probably not full gargoyles. I say so since the island seems to be made up of meny crossbreeds. Does that mean that any creature with some amount of Gargoyle blood in them would survive?
6.) Is the name Cast-away a pun? (<---- illustrates the point) I'm sure im reading WAY to deep into this here..but i was just wondering if the name was there to show any kind of abandonment John may feel or have created. *nods* ya ya i know..
7.) Can you give us any information about David's mother?
8.) In "Highnoon" 'Coldstone' asks Demona and Macbeth, "Why does nobody see us?", to which they respond that it dosn't matter and to leave it be. How is it that Elisa walks right up to them with no problem? Is it part of a spell?
9.) Is there an age at which female Gargoyles become fertile and infertile?
10.) Gargoyle eggs are in a rookery for 10 years before hatching..is that in human years or garg?
11.) We know that on Avalon there is a time difference. Every Hour there equals a day here. Is there such a time change on Olympus?
12.) When you said a character from N. Olympian's was going too meet up with some character We know of did you mean a major character?
13.) Going along with question 12..feel like telling us about that Romeo Juliet thing? *grins*
14.) We all know that Lexington was at least going to suffer some emotional trama as it were. I don't really see him as going compleatly off his rocker...mabey minor betral or perhaps becoming introvered and crabby..but nothing as we saw in "Future Tense". How severe did you see Lexington's reacion would have been? (ie, just a teen faze thing..or something worse)
15.) I'm Very sorry in advance if you never said this. But I seem to remember you saying something about Brooklyn's Children as being twins..something rare in the Gargoyles Universe. When Brooklyn and them arrive home they are biologically 13 and 3. So where they hatched separatly? In two different seasons. Or where they birthed on the same night but due to some timedancing are separated by age?
16.) U said that post TD Brooklyn avoids the Phoenix Gate like the plauge..dose that mean we would have seen more of it?
17.) And for my last Q. just cuz..im really annoying, Do you feel like telling us about lex's girl NOW???? *grins*
*looks over her list of other q's* hmm thats enough for today..;)
Thanks! *wings out*
UGH, another marathon question. Yes, I know, it was posted before my request for fewer questions per post. But still....
1. I said they have a weak sense of smell? And I tied that into Hudson knowing about Broadway, how? I'm sorry. I don't think I understand the question.
2. Uh, largely.
2a. No. It really has more to do with the creative/production decision to wimp out and not deal with the problem.
2b. Probably, here and there. I sort of did make the call after getting input from numerous people about the difficulties involved. Then Frank and I changed our minds on Bushido, but we were told it was too late.
2c. I think I might have had some fun with the language barriers up to a point.
3. Clear as anyone's memories of a 40 year span.
4. Gargoyles clearly have some mammalian qualities, or perhaps a better way to think about it is that mammals have some Gargoylian qualities.
5. You're making assumptions not in evidence.
6. It's not a pun, per se. But yes, he (and we) chose the name for a reason.
7. Can I? Yes.
9. Puberty and menopause.
12. Xanatos at least.
13. Well, Lexy, you've seen the pitch now. What else do you want to know?
15. I never said they were twins. NEVER.
16. Don't know. But I'm guessing we all will have had our fill of the thing by then.
Hiya! First of all i'd like to say that you have made an excellent series, congrats on the great work. Ok...I'm a first-timer but I have read the archives so I'll be careful not to ask anything that I can remember already being asked.
1) Why is it that it took Goliath so long to finally except Angela as his daughter but it didn't take Demona very long at all? infact, it seemed as though she had completely excepted Angela as hers, not even asking about the other members of the rookery. Any reason for this?
2) If you had to pick one, which would you say is the most truly Evil villain on the show? (The one who is bad merely to see people suffer or something)
3) Since what biologic ages would you say that Goliath and Demona were a couple?
Well.. although I've been itchin' to do this for so long but wasn't able to because it had been down, I can't remember any of the questions I had lined up... oh well.. I'll save them for another day i suppose.
Now to answer my first question of ASK GREG - The Next Generation.
1. Goliath was very concerned about playing favorites. Angela, to his mind, was way too concerned about him as her BIOLOGICAL father. To his upbringing, that showed bad taste. Of course, she was raised differently. Once Diane Maza pointed out to Goliath that Angela was the only daughter in the vicinity, Goliath lept at the chance to be her dad. It's not that he didn't love her, but he was a novice father and he didn't want to screw up.
Demona's motivations, as usual, were more complicated. Assuming Sevarius filled her in about Angela sometime between "Sanctuary" and "The Reckoning", Demona had time to plan an "attack" on her daughter, or at least on her daughter's loyalties. As usual, Demona is her own worst enemy. She initially saw Angela as an opportunity, not a child. By the time she realized how important Angela truly was to her, it was all but too late.
2. Gee... Did we have any of those? I guess Hyena, Jackal and Wolf sorta qualify. Proteus was pretty nasty. Yeah. Maybe Proteus.
3. Don't have my timeline here with me, so I can't pin it down exactly. But by 971 they were already falling for each other, so that should give you an idea...