A Station Eight Fan Web Site
Dear Mr. Weisman I find your posts on gargoyle physiology and culture very fascinating. Having recently read some of your earlier answers to the newly identified Loch Ness Clan a question came to my mind as to how this clan raised and cared for its offspring. It is widely known that gargoyles in the other clans in the gargoyles universe lay eggs is this also true of the Lochness Clan and if so do they put their eggs into caves until hatching as the Wyvern Clan did in generations past?
Time to ramble...
I think this episode had a fun story written and edited by Cary Bates. And I know it had a great moody storyboard directed by Frank Paur. But it suffered from two major problems...
1. Repetitive elements. We had multiple story editors working on multiple episodes. I was overseeing all of them, but sometimes things did get away from me. "Monsters" has a number of elements in common with "Heritage" which had only just preceeded it in the line up. It makes "Monsters" seem a bit more tired than it really is, through no fault of Cary's. For example, we open with a Sea Monster. One of our female cast members is lost and nearly drowned. Goliath searches frantically. Etc. Even my five-year-old son Benny was convinced, "We just saw this one." It just felt very been there done that. My fault.
2. Very weak animation -- some of the weakest of the series -- removed much of the mystery and mood from the boards that Frank directed. I know we called tons of retakes on this ep, but there was a limit. Secrets were given away too early. What's a monster submarine and what's a monster is too easily discernable at the start. We were hoping for more silhouette's in that murky Loch. Throw in some really atrocious character moments (like when Angela wakes up in chains) and you've got an ep that's unimpressive at best.
And yet, there's much in this show that I really like.
It takes an important step toward evolving Angela's relationship with Goliath. Though G's not aware of it, Sevarius reveals to Angela that she is his biological daughter. Having grown up around her adoptive *HUMAN* parents, that notion of biological imperative must have seeped in. She already KNEW that Goliath was one of her ROOKERY parents. But this revelation ignites her curiousity and need. I find it interesting anyway. My eight-year-old daughter Erin was likewise fascinated with this aspect. She was anxious for Angela to tell Goliath about her discovery. Of course, Goliath knows in a 'shrug' sense. It's visually obvious to him. It just isn't programmed to be significant for him.
And if that weren't enough to make the ep worthwhile, we also get another wonderful over-the-top performance from Tim Curry as Dr. Anton Sevarius. He has a TON of great lines in this (all quotations approximate)...
"If it gets any more sacharine in there, I'll have to shove a finger down my throat."
"It must be awful to wake up in chains first thing in the morning."
"Thank heaven for little girls... and DNA markers."
"He's your very own flesh and stone."
"Enough to make my mind boggle..."
But there were other problems too. In my mind and Cary's Big Daddy and Nessie were mates (with little ones revealed at the end). But because of the name "Big Daddy" and because we were intentionally using the L.N.Monsters to parallel and comment on Goliath and Angela's father-daughter relationship, many people thought that Big Daddy was Nessie's dad. I'm not sure it matters too much. But (unintentional) confusion can't help.
Elisa knows they haven't arrived in Manhattan because it's too quiet and because the water's too clean. Of course, Loch Ness is famous for having MURKY, MURKY water. Not that the water is "dirty" exactly, the way New York Harbor is. But it's hard to figure Elisa would think of the Loch as clean either. And I knew that. Don't know how that got by me.
But Elisa does have some fun lines here and there:
"I'm not really the adventuring type."
"It's a show... Themeparks do this five times a day."
(Yes, we weren't above giving a gentle knock to the parent company.)
(Of course, when Elisa said that last bit, Erin said, "I don't think so." Benny noticed the submarine was metal and thought it was a robot. It took him a while to get the notion that it was a ship or sub.)
LITTLE CONTINUITY TOUCHES
Elisa leaves a message on Matt's machine. But the tape is full. This was done for two reasons. Or three...
1. We felt that Elisa would and should attempt to contact someone.
2. We wanted to prolong the agony (at least in the audience's minds) as to what happened to our travelers from the point of view of those left behind.
3. We were in the middle of a tier, and couldn't guarantee (as we saw with "Kingdom" that the episode would air in order. We didn't want Elisa to successfully contact anyone, because it might screw up continuity.
Nice to see Brendan & Margot taking a little vacation on the Loch, huh?
Angela says to Nessie: "I bet you've never been this close to a real live gargoyle either." But of course Angela's wrong. One of the reasons that Nessie gets so friendly so fast with Angela is BECAUSE she recognizes her as a gargoyle and knows that gargoyles are friendly to the Monsters of the Loch.
Of course, this begs the question as to what the Loch Ness clan was doing throughout this little adventure. I don't have a grea answer -- YET -- but for now, I'm just going to fall back on the notion that they were aware that Nessie was missing, but didn't know the cause. (It is a big murky loch, after all.) And yes, I know that's a feeble explanation, but it will have to do until I figure out a better one.
The title "Monsters" is another one of my thematic one word titles. Angela hits the nail on the head when she calls Sevarius the only monster around here. It's central to the series theme. But again, maybe too obvious, contributing to the weakness of the episode.
We had some trouble with the animation of the scene where Bruno confronts Goliath and Elisa right after they escape the dungeon. It forced us to reuse Jeff Bennett's "All right." line twice in a row.
Speaking of Jeff, my wife Beth thought Bruno sounded very Jack Nicolson. I pointed out that when Bruno was created, way back in "Awakening" we asked Jeff to make him a young George C. Scott. Beth couldn't hear that at all.
Benny used to love Bruno. Not only does Bruno barely register with him now. He doesn't remember ever liking the character. Erin asked him if he remembered the Xanatos Goon Squad. He didn't respond.
Another weakness... Angela just holds her breath forever down there at the end.
And when Goliath does get there, her chains pop off too easily, begging the question why she couldn't free herself.
I know I keep talking about the ep's flaws. But like all the 66 chapters, I really am more fond of it than critical. I do love seeing Goliath launched as a living torpedo, for example. There are a bunch of little things that I like.
And heck, we killed off four more characters. Sevarius and Bruno survived. But I think we have to assume that the other four members of the Goon Squad are gone for good.
But it wasn't one of our best efforts, I'll have to admit.
Sorry 'bout that...
Anyway, that's my ramble. Where's yours?
Were you ever going to explore the other legends involved with Loch Ness?
Eventually, and with enough time, money and episodes, we'd have covered EVERYTHING. That was the goal, anyway.
How do the Loch Ness and Pukhan gargoyles absorb sunlight when they live in caves?
Perhaps they absorb thermal energy. Perhaps they don't sleep in the caves. Perhaps I should stop answering questions tonight, cuz I'm clearly in a bad mood.
Why does the Loch Ness clan protect the Loch Ness monster?
Care to explain why the gargoyles in the British isles are so different since in London we have animal headed ways, in Loch Ness aquatic gargoyles and in wyvern the generic ishimura/guatemala kind?
'Generic ishimura/guatemala kind', huh? Don't agree with that.
But no, I don't currently care to explain it.
When did you decide there were gargoyles living in New Olympus and Loch Ness?
When did you decide there were gargoyles in Xanadu and Pukhan?
When did you decide that there was going to be a gargoyle clan in New Camelot?
When did you decide that Paris, Queen Florence Island and Wyvern were the sites of future clans?
Years ago. By 1996 at the latest.
Years ago. By 1995 at the latest.
Years ago. By 1996 at the latest.
Years ago. By 1996 at the latest.
We now know what the gargoyles in the the Loch Ness and Chinese clans look like care to tell us what the gargoyles in the Korean and New Olympus clans look like?
And by the way, you don't know what you think you know. You just have a better idea.
before he caught Angela, had Sevarius found any proof to support his theory of a garg clan living in Loch Ness?
if yes, what did he find?
No. Her presence generated that theory, as I recall.
1. in 1996, does the Loch Ness clan use names?
2. does the New Olympus clan?
3. does the Pukhan clan?
4. does the Xanadu clan?
I have intentionally not made decisions about this at this time.
What legends have the Loch Ness clan inspired since I don't recall any creatures from legends and myths that have manta ray fins?
not going into that now
Are there aquatic gargoyle beasts?
Did the gargoyles contributed to the mermaid legends considering that there are actually amphibious gargoyles?
There are no literally amphibious gargoyles. But in answer to your question, maybe.
in the prize you sent to me you said that the "nearly amphibious clan" has lower bodies that "are positively dolphin-esque." i'm not revealing what clan that is cuz i don't want to reveal all the information in the prize too fast (if at all) but i'm sure you know what clan i'm talking about. anyway, are these lower bodies like one appendage like Zafiro's snake-like lower body or are they two appendages ending in dolphin-like fins, more like finned legs? if it is just one appendage how do they walk?
can they still glide even though their wings "have adapted into large manta-like fins" or are they strictly land and water gargs?
I never said they could walk. Never said they couldn't either. Still not.
And I'm not simply being cagey to amuse myself this time. The truth is that I'm not an artist and I wouldn't want to bind whatever artist ultimately has to design these things in advance. Like to see what he or she comes up with before I make up my mind.
Hi Greg, If Dark Ages ever goes through, would there be any type of relationship between different clans, for example would the Wyvern Clan know the existence or be in contact with the Loch Ness clan?
Yes, eventually. And other clans too. Clans that didn't survive into our century.
ok, obviously Goliath and company don't yet know about the Loch Ness clan (or do they?) but, does the Loch Ness clan know about Goliath and co. and their visit to Loch Ness?
I don't think so. They weren't there very long.
3.How are they connected to the monster? Is it symbiotic relationship?
They are protectors. (We're still talking about the Loch Ness clan, right?)
1.Do the gargoyles in Loch Ness look scottish like our protagonists?
2.Where do they live in Loch Ness?
2. Largely in caves.
1.What peculiar features do the gargoyles in New Olympus have? By peculiar I mean by such features as the London clan with its animal heads and feathery wings and the Guatemalan clan with Zafiro and his more serpentine features.
2.What peculiar features do the gargoyles in Pukhan have?
3.What peculiar features do hte gargoyles in Xanadu have?
4.Do the gargoyles in Loch Ness have any peculiar features?
1. I'm not going to character design them here in writing.
4. I suppose.
Did gargoyles originate from Asia? Afterall half of the eight clans originated there and in east Asia there is about three clans presently living there meaning that there might have been a large abundance of gargoyles clans living there and also the people in Ishimura don't fear the gargoyles meaning that gargoyles must have lived there quite along time for the humans to get use to them.
I'm not saying at this time. But in any case, you're logic above doesn't wash.
The survival of three clans in Asia hardly proves anything, as each clan survived for very specific reasons. And every one of the seven old clans have been in place for centuries. And at one point or another, all got along with humans. The Ishimurans managed to maintain the relationship, but it hardly suggests or guarantees a geographic origin in Japan.
After all, two clans also survived in Great Britain -- a much smaller area than all of Asia -- so by your logic, we might assume that Gargoyles originated there.
But I'm not confirming any of it. Asia, Britain or somewhere else? I'm not saying now.
Where in Loch Ness does the Loch Ness Clan live?
Did the Loch Ness monster have any involvement in the survival of the clan?
The fate of the clan and the monster are intertwined.