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Rewatched "Bushido" today (I rewatched "Sentinel" yesterday, but had no new thoughts on it).
What most struck me this time around was the parallel to "Awakening", with Taro as like a less-serious version of Xanatos. The two specifics I noticed were the gargoyles' awakening in the theme park, which reminded me of the clan's first awakening in Manhattan, and their wondering if someone had moved the temple, which evoked Xanatos moving the castle to New York.
Those parallels were very intentional.
The Director knew exactly about Yama's situation and Hunter was able to blackmail him.
a) How did the Director of Yama learn?
b) How did the Director learn about Yamas exile and its reasons?
c) Does the Director really know where Yama's clan is or was it a bluff?
a. No spoilers.
b. No spoilers.
c. No spoilers.
1) How do the clans determine the names of newly-born members?
2) Did Nashville itself determined his name or were his parents?
1 a-d. No spoilers.
2. No spoilers.
What is the full name of Taro?
On which Japanese island is Ishimura?
1. Don't know.
2. Don't know.
I'd have to do some research to answer both questions.
I have looked everywhere and can not find the answer... I've learned a few from this site and two more elsewhere, but is there a complete list of "placeholder" or "script" names for the unnamed gargoyles in the show? If not, how can I research this better in order to make one? I would love to know all of Demona's clan, the rest of the Ishimura Clan, etc. Thank you for your time and bless you for making this show. Once a fan, always a fan! #stillgargoyles
For Demona's clan: https://gargwiki.net/Demona%27s_Clan
I don't think I do have placeholder or script names for the unnamed members of the Ishimura Clan.
Dear Mr. Greg Weisman,
Korea and Japan have very ancient blood ties and cultural relationships even if often we fought. Our two cultures and philosophies have a lot in common. Buddhism came to Japan through Korea, and Buddhism shaped a lot of bushido although that was not the only part.
Do any connections in genetics or in cultural contact exist between the Ishimura clan and the Pukhan clan?
I apologize if this is a spoiler request.
The short answer is yes. But beyond that, I'm going to call this a spoiler request. Sorry.
What is the actual number of Gargoyles and Gargoyle Beasts living in the Ishimura Clan?
I've never calculated it exactly. But I imagine it's one of the larger clans. Probably closer to 80 than 40.
I just realized that the second question I asked two days ago (about how Tom got from Avelon to Manhatten) is REALLY stupid...for some reason I was misremembering the entire situation and was thinking Tom went to Manhatten AFTER Goliath and co. got back from their trip (which makes absolutly no sense now that I remember correctly)...OOPS! Sorry. I'm verry much expecting a "Hey stupid, what the heck are you talking about?!" response to that question.
Anyway, since I don't want to clog the que with just an apology for screwing up a previous one, I'll ask a couple of actual questions too, this time regarding Brooklyn and Katana.
1. You once described their relationship as: "there's conflict." Can you elaborate (in a general sense, not specific situations...ie. they bicker a lot, they disagree on many things, ect.)?
2. I know that the real-world reason for Katana's name is the sward, but in-universe, did her clan use names? (Also, I know it's a "spoiler request," but if you feel like saying who gave her the name if it wasn't her clan, that would be awesome -- same for Foo Dog).
3. Were the parallels between the casts of the World Tour and Timedancer (ie. the lead Gargoyle: Goliath/Brooklyn; his mate: Elisa/Katana; the child: Angela/Nashville; and the beast: Bronx/Foo Dog) a deliberate decision or just a coincidence?
4. Has/will Foo Dog ever had/get a mate?
1. Watch Sam and Diane on Cheers or Beatrice and Benedick in Much Ado About Nothing.
2. We've established that the Ishimura Clan uses names. Whether they did back then is a SPOILER REQUEST.
3. More organic than anything. Keep in mind, it's just Brooklyn. Then it's Brooklyn, Finella and Mary. Later it's Brooklyn and Fu-Dog. Later still it's Brooklyn, Fu-Dog and Katana. Later still, it's Brooklyn, Fu-Dog, Katana and an egg. Then Brooklyn, Fu-Dog, Katana and Nashville. Then Brooklyn, Fu-Dog, Katana, Nashville and Egwardo. And that's assuming no one else temporarily joins them for some of the Dancing, a fact I'll neither confirm or deny.
4. SPOILER REQUEST.
So, with "Chaw" becoming canon you have established that at least some female beasts' eyes are red. First of all, I love this feature. It becomes a common tie in gargate physiology, it gives us a visual cue to determine beast gender (which would otherwise be readily lacking) and it just looks cool.
I do wonder though if you have any thoughts about any future appearances of Boudicca. Perhaps you've seen the Gargoyle Beast page on the GargWiki where Boudicca's eyes have been modified to be red rather than white as we saw in the show. Would you make this minor ret-con official if we see Boudicca in a Gargoyles project down the road? In your mind are all female beasts' eyes red? Or is there a reason that Chaw's are and Boudicca's are not?
What about the beast we saw briefly in Ishimura (with white eyes)? Is that beast male or female?
All female gargate eyes glow red. Mistakes may have been made and may continue to be made. But the rules are the rules. Boudicca's eyes should have burned red. Are you sure they didn't? I know sometimes the red tint is fairly washed out...
As for the Ishimura beast, for the time being, if his eyes glowed white, let's assume he was a male.
Given the current events in Japan (earthquake, tsunami, nuclear power plant problems), I thought this question might be somewhat relevant. Assuming the aforementioned events in Japan occured in the gargoyles universe, would the Japanese clan be safe?
I'm hoping that things getting better in Japan in the real world.
I'm sitting back in 1997. I can't see that far ahead.
Hey, Greg *waves*. First time asking questions.
So I have a couple of questions revolving around Japan, Ishimura, and Bushido.
1) Is "Ishimura" supposed to be written with any specific Kanji / Japanese characters?
1b) If so, which characters would those be?
2) Given that the punishment for Yama's betrayal was banishment and not the usual open-your-guts-and-die [I]seppuku[/I], one can conclude that there are significant differences between the Gargoyles' conception of [I]Bushido[/I] and the traditional conception of it, in which ritual suicide is the appropriate way to restore lost honor. Are the Ishimura gargoyles themselves aware of this discrepancy? If so, how do they view the traditional version, vis-a-vis their own?
1. I wouldn't know.
1b. See above.
2. There are some differences, which is not to confirm or deny that seppuku may or may not be part of the Ishimuran Clan's code of honor. But not for all offenses. They are aware of the discrepancy and consider their version of Bushido to be the true and original one. Whether they're right might be up for debate.
Hi, Greg. I have a question about the Ishimuran Clan. What would they think of the Dolphin Drive Hunts that occur in the coastal town of Taiji? This question came up when I listened to an episode of NPR's 'The Story' where the Oscar nominated documentary The Cove was being discussed.
Thanks for your time.
I'm afraid I don't know enough about this serious real world issue to intelligently answer how a fictional clan would respond to it.
When you were creating the other clans how did you decide which locations would have still have Gargoyle Clans over the others?
Some of it was about logic (like the clan on New Olympus). Some about story ideas we had (like M.I.A.). Some about a desire for geographic distribution (like the Mayan clan in Guatemala). Sometimes it just felt right, like the notion that there would eventually be a clan in Paris at Notre Dame, site of some of the most famous Gargoyles in the world. Sometimes it was as silly as ... hey, they're animating the series in Japan and Korea, so let's put clans there. At some point later on, the ideas became more fixed and were explored (at least in my head) in much more detail.
We know that Ishimura has at least one gargoyle beast, considering the state of Beasts in London, I was curious, how many gargoyle beasts does Ishimura have?
I haven't done the math. Not a ton, but more than a few.
When Taro kidnapped the Ishimuran Clan (and Goliath, Angela, and Bronx) what did he do about the Gargoyle eggs? Obviously there were eggs in the Ishimurian Rookery, did he leave them in Ishimura, or did he take them "Gargoyle World" with the clan?
Good question... uh...
The answer's ... uh...
I finally got a hold of Bad Guys. It's great to see Yama, although I'm sad that we don't see more of the Ishimura clan. I was very much hoping we would.
Sora wants to go into exile with him, that is sweet of her. She'd rather be with him than with her clan? But he feels too ashamed to be around her.
Apparently Matrix can hovor/fly without any visible means of propulsion. I find it amusing that when it turns one arm into a gun, the gun has a handle on it, completely unnecessarily. I guess that Matrix has only seen guns that have handles, and thinks that is how they should look.
We see Vinnie in Japan, and he is trying to get to Ishimura. I wonder what Taro has hired him to do. Maybe hoping he'll join his ninja squad, or something.
Also, how does Yama suddenly gain altitude like that, since he can only glide and not fly? I'm honestly confused by this.
Yama looks pretty cool when he stands up on the skyscraper. He's really loaded himself down with weapons -- two katanas, a larger sword (a tachi?), a dagger, nunchakus, ninja stars, and another sword/dagger (a wakizashi?). Clearly he's expecting to be attacked and feels vulnerable outside the clan!
I'm impressed that the artist can show Yama's eyes glowing even in black and white. Not just the lack of irises but the light shining from them.
And his line about Robyn's accent is great! Also the look on his face as he says that, and his calling her Gaijin. All priceless.
Matrix declares that they serve Law and Order, as if that would explain everything.
Robyn tells him that she's a (former) hunter, which I didn't expect. And while she appears to have discarded her old attitudes at least partly, we do not see what her new attitude is toward gargoyles. She is still willing to threaten the Ishimura clan. Or is that what the Director ordered her to say?
Yama's reaction to that is strange. Desperation, but he doesn't look all that angry, in his face. And he agrees... but why? Just because he feels he is so desperate he has no choice? We do not see the moment when he makes this decision.
I find the square thought bubbles confusing. It is difficult to tell what is thought and what is out loud.
Surprisingly, this issue already moves away from Yama to Fang. Who has a name (and look there's the Yuppies).
Sevarius is clearly impersonating a real person who's known to the Labyrinth-dwellers... some guy named Fred. Is he impersonating Fang? But then Claw doesn't react as if he were. I'd think Claw would know what Fang used to look like.
I'm really liking the art. Yama's face is a little odd, but then he's got a difficult face to draw. The rest looks great.
It was really great to see Yama. I look forward to seeing more of him. The issue felt short but I enjoyed it. Thanks for the continuing story.
In honor of Bad Guys #2, where in Japan is Ishimura located? Which island is it on? Vinnie seems to think it is within a train ride of Tokyo, but then he could just be clueless.
I honestly would have to do a bit more research before I could pin down Ishimura's fictional location.
There is one question I have about the episode Bushido that I have been meaning to ask. After Elisa & the rest of the protectors of the Japanese clan are knocked unconcious, wake up, realize Taro has taken the gargoyles, and determine the location that Taro has taken the gargoyles, why does it take them seemingly to near sun-rise to get there? Was Taro's gargoyle theme park that far away from their village?
ALL those steps took longer than you're making it sound, especially the waking up part.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
A crisis brings together representatives of four clans.
Lexington continues his journey.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
Just before dawn, reporters gather outside to see Taro's "real gargoyles". Elisa and Constable Hiroshi break into the theme park and help Goliath and the other gargoyles escape. Realizing that he had been duped, Yama battles Taro, and leaves him to face the reporters alone. With no evidence of gargoyles, Taro is humiliated. Elisa returns to Ishimura after sunrise and departs for Avalon, taking the sleeping Goliath, Angela and Bronx along. It is night when they arrive, and the gargoyles soon wake up. That evening in Ishimura, the gargoyles hold a council meeting with their human neighbors. Yama is banished until his honor can be restored. And the gargoyles and humans agree to resume the study of Bushido.
This day in Gargoyles' Universe History....
The travelers leave Avalon and arrive in Ishimura, Japan. There they meet the Ishimura Clan of Gargoyles who have lived in peace with their human neighbors for generations. At sunrise, Goliath, Angela and Bronx turn to stone alongside their new cousins. But minutes later, their human guardians are attacked by ninjas hired by Taro, a Japanese businessman who grew up in Ishimura. All the gargoyles are stolen. They awaken inside a Gargoyle Theme Park that Taro has built. Yama, second-in-command to Kai, the leader of the Ishimura Clan, tries to convince everyone to stay in the park. Goliath, Angela and Bronx attempt to leave, but are gassed and imprisoned by Taro. Beth Maza calls her father Peter and asks him to come to Arizona to investigate the local Xanatos Construction project.
How many of the Gargoyles from Ishimura have names? We know Kai, Yama, Sora, and from their past Katana, but what about the rest?
PS - got #4 today, and I loved it! Cant wait to see what Brooklyn's costume looks like, though I have a decent guess.
They all have names by the moden era.
1a)Do you know at what point the Ishimuran clan was the last gargoyle clan living in Japan?
1b)if so, by what point?
1c)If the answer to 1b makes this question obsolete, please ignore it: During World War 2, were there any gargoyle clans living in Japan outside of Ishimura?
1a. I honestly haven't done enough research to be able to answer this question yet.
1b. See above.
1c. I doubt it, but I'm not committing to that answer yet.
hi greg are there gargoyles in japan.?
Yes. In Ishimura.
HOW (or better) WHY in "BUSHIDO" the japaneses Gargoyles speak in ENGLISH?????They should speak in JAPANESE, NOT ENGLISH!!!!! And the HUMANS TOO!!! A BIG MISTAKE, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS?????
Anyone who read what i write and wanna speak with me , well, here is my email: firstname.lastname@example.org
When we started the World Tour, I raised the point with Frank Paur that in some of the episodes we might want to do a bit with subtitles and foreign languages. The notion was rejected.
LATER -- after we recorded "Bushido", Frank came to me, having changed his mind. He wanted the Japanese (gargoyles and humans) to be bilingual. So that we'd open the episode with them talking in Japanese, until they meet the English speaking Gargoyles, at which point they'd switch to English out of politeness.
But the problem was we had already recorded Bushido, and so we needed authorization to pay for a re-recording. Our bosses wouldn't spring for the cash, basically. I thought it was too bad, but I can't say that I blame them. We had spent our money already. It's not like they cheaped out on us. They just refused to overspend because I hadn't pushed for something in the beginning and/or because Frank changed his mind too late.
Does Sora still love Yama? Even after his betrayal and banishment?
Gargoyles mate for life, so yes. But that doesn't mean that they don't have a lot of problems to overcome.
How many Garoyles live in the Ishimura Clan?
I'm guessing that Ishimura is a bigger than average clan, thanks to the fact that they're hiding in plain sight with human protection. But I hate to assign a specific number as someone always calls me on that stuff.
Almost every gargoyle clan we've meet in the show or that you've us about protects something. The Guatemalan clan protects the rain forest. The Loch Ness clan protects the Loch Ness Monster, the Manhattan, London and Ishimura clan naturally protects New York City, London and Ishimura respectively. And the Avalon clan protects Avalon while the Labyrinth clan presently protect the homeless of New York.
1. So what does the New Olympus clan protect? Mount Thanatos? The whole of New Olympus? Or have they abandoned their duty much like the London clan when they lost Griff(since you did say they were isolationists)?
2.What does the Pukhan and Xanadu clans protect?
3.What exactly do New Camelot and New Wyvern clans protect?
4.What abou the Queen Florence Island Clan(after they've been freed from their stasis)?
5.What about the Notre Dame Clan?
1. I think they have become too insular. It's something I would have made an issue of, given the chance.
2. Pukhan Clan is more interested in protecting their concept of justice. Xanadu Clan protects the endangered Gargoyle Beast species.
3. New Wyvern is very traditionalist. So they protect Wyvern and it's surroundings. By contrast, New Camelot is very internationalist.
4 & 5. Haven't gotten that far in my thinking yet, but at the least they'll protect the Island and Paris, respectively.
Dear Greg, great job you deserve more compliments than i can offer, but my question is why were the gargyles from the different regions of the earth so different except for the japanese and your staring characters? well thanks for your time if i get it. bye
I think the Ishimura clan was just as different from the gargs as many of the Mayan clan. I'm not going to get caught up in migration patterns or genetic explanations that are just going to trip me up later. In any case, most of the differences you observed are fairly superficial anyway.
why does Brooklyn always end up alone? Im starting to feel sorry for him.
Well, he doesn't in my mind. He eventually winds up with a Clan Ishimura Gargoyle named Katana. Someone he meets while TimeDancing.
I finally got to see Bushido. I must compliment you on the effect caused by facing opposite the sun. I never realized just how used to their position relative to the sun I was. The backdrop when they turn to stone threw me. Sweet!
Thanks, although I'm not sure you're right on target. They were facing into the building as opposed to facing out toward potential danger. Since they were still all around the building, at least a quarter of them were still facing the sun.
How many gargoyle clans were there when the show was ended?
Do any of the other Avalon gargoyles join Angelia in the real world?
1. In 1996, the following clans were extant (although some were far from healthy in numbers):
2. Eventually, others would visit. But I don't immediately see anyone else taking up permanent residence outside Avalon.
I read a Japanese legend about the Tengu - winged, gnomelike creatures, that studied martial arts.
Was this one of the legends that inspired the Ishimura Clan?
i didn't notice it til recently, but in your Gargoyles 2198 proposal you wrote, "2. The Ishimura Clan. Ishimura, Japan. These gargoyles have lived in peace (and until recently, in secrecy) with their human neighbors for centuries."
1. how recently was the Ishimura Clan revealed to the world?
2. did the other gargoyle clans even know about their exictence (not including the Manhatten Clan)?
3. were they the last gargoyle clan to be revealed to the world?
4. did their remaining a secret have anything to do with the events of "Bushido"?
1. Haven't decided.
2. Haven't worked out those details.
3. Not necessarily.
4. See above.
Care to explain why the gargoyles in the British isles are so different since in London we have animal headed ways, in Loch Ness aquatic gargoyles and in wyvern the generic ishimura/guatemala kind?
'Generic ishimura/guatemala kind', huh? Don't agree with that.
But no, I don't currently care to explain it.
1. as gargoyles in Japan have been living with humans for centuries, have they been using names throughout most their history, or all of it?
2. was there ever a time that the Ishimuran clan didn't use names? if so, when?
3. did Katana have her name when Brooklyn first meets her?
1. "Most of their history" would be a hell of a long time. But some of it.
2. Yes. Long ago.
3. Not saying.
Do the other clans existing throughout the world all speak English so well? Are they fluent in a more native tongue? I didn't expect Golaith, etc. to be able to communicate so easily with foreign clans or did this just have to do with the simple fact that the TV show was being watched by a majority of Americans? (Basically the same as asking why all the aliens in Star Trek English fluently)
I would have liked to have done more with foreign languages during the world tour, but that was actually vetoed by our bosses.
We'll assume for now, just for now, that Zafiro, Kai and the others had reason to learn English.
you said that Yama is blackmailed into joining The Redemption Squad cuz the Director knows the secret of Ishimura. now obviously Yama at least partially still wants to "come out" to the human world about gargs, you've even said that in a way Yama is right about that, but is the Director as un-trustworthy as Taro was? would the Director really reveal the secret? or does Yama want to be revealed to the world, but wants to get back in the good with Sora and his clan?
Yama is done making decisions FOR his clan. At least in his own mind. He's more interested in protecting them, in restoring his honor, etc.
Ding, dong, the contest is dead! I have MANY 2198 questions, but in a genuine effort not to annoy you, I'm going to post them one at a time and very spread out.
Does the Order of the Guardian in Ishimura have anything to do with the Guardian Tom?
What is the Order of the Guardian? Who started it?
Clan Ishimura, with some help from various individuals including Tom.
I know generally TGC is avoided in this forum, but since you wrote "The Journey":
Was there any significance to why Vinny was sent to Japan? Did you envision showing him and the Japanese Gargoyles at some future point?
And "The Journey" is absolutely within the purvue of this forum. My last episode.
You said that Yama is blackmailed into joining the Squad. What does the Director hold that is able to force Yama to join the Squad?
The secret of Ishimura.
I wonder how Goliath would have reacted to some of the other
tennets of Bushido. We saw how the code teaches redemption of honor through acceptance of personal responsibilty for your actions. However, this is pretty much a universal creed.
There were other aspects of the Bushido code, practiced by the Samaraii, that were very alien to western ideals. For instance, an unredeemable failure is seen as such an affront to the Bushido code, that ritual suicide or Seppaku, was often the only way to restore ones honor. The samarai disembowels himself with a curved knife. Then his "second" decapitates him.
Vengeance is a highly valued right among the practicers of bushido, as evidence by the classic story of the 47 Ronin. When a feudal lord was killed due to treachery of another, his 47 samaraii were shunned and disgraced as warriors without a master. There sense of honor demanded that the offender and his family be hunted down and killed, so the 47 Ronin dedicated the remainder of their lives to this task. Upon completion, the surviving Ronin committed Seppaku.
Surrender was also not tolerated by the bushido code. The samarai would fight to the last man, and enemies who did surrender were executed on the spot.
Were the Japanese gargloyes more selective in their practice of Bushido. I think it would have been interesting to see how Goliath would have reacted to ideals practiced by Japanese gargoyles which would have been so at odds with his own sense of what honor demanded. Dedicating ones life to vengeance? Summarily killing a helpless enemy? Failures so great that ritual suicide is a reasoned expectation, rather than an expression of anguish? There have certainly been instances where his anger or grief might have driven Goliath to these actions. Yet, Bushido enshrines such behavior as honorable and necessary.
All good points. All stuff I had hoped to explore in TimeDancer with Brooklyn and Katana.
you said that the cross-generational love between Yama and Sora isn't the norm, but isn't unheard of, so:
1. are there gargoyles (esspecially among the Ishimura clan) that are against relationships between non-rookery siblings?
2. have Yama or Sora ever wondered if perhaps they are biologically closely related, like brother/sister, uncle/niece? are they ever insecure about having a non-traditional relationship?
3. will they still be able to have 3 children if they want to? obviously, Sora being younger should be able to concieve 3 times, but are male gargoyles able to fertilize an egg at any time in their life? if they have 3 eggs, Yama will be a generation older than most the other fathers in the clan...
1. It's not that much of a taboo. Certainly not when the individuals are only one generation apart.
2. This isn't really an issue. As I've stated before, gargoyles have scent markers that unconsciously discourage them from an unhealthy incestuous relationship.
3. It should work out, depending on how long Yama's away from the clan.
Why do the Ishimura gargoyles resemble the people of Japan?
I'm not sure they do, except in styles of hair and clothing.
Again, one could chalk it up to artistic license. Or maybe to the "chameleon mutation gene" I've speculated about.
Did gargoyles originate from Asia? Afterall half of the eight clans originated there and in east Asia there is about three clans presently living there meaning that there might have been a large abundance of gargoyles clans living there and also the people in Ishimura don't fear the gargoyles meaning that gargoyles must have lived there quite along time for the humans to get use to them.
I'm not saying at this time. But in any case, you're logic above doesn't wash.
The survival of three clans in Asia hardly proves anything, as each clan survived for very specific reasons. And every one of the seven old clans have been in place for centuries. And at one point or another, all got along with humans. The Ishimurans managed to maintain the relationship, but it hardly suggests or guarantees a geographic origin in Japan.
After all, two clans also survived in Great Britain -- a much smaller area than all of Asia -- so by your logic, we might assume that Gargoyles originated there.
But I'm not confirming any of it. Asia, Britain or somewhere else? I'm not saying now.
If the Ishimura clan was inspired by Tengu then why weren't there many beaked gargoyles?
I can't answer this. Assumes facts not in evidence.
you've said that the Guatemalan, Ishimura, and London all had rookeries with eggs when Goliath and co. visited, why didn't you decide to show that any of these clans had eggs on screen? i think it would've been great to see that gargoyles do have a future and their not slowly dying out. was the problem time constraints? how hard is it to show some eggs in the background of certain scenes?
Harder than you obviously think.
Cause for starters you're limiting my ideas to eggs.
Every episode was (at least in my opinion) bursting with ideas. As many as we could fit in and do justice too. Certain things were explicit. Some were implied. And some were just logical extrapolations of what was explicit or implied.
There was NEVER going to be room for every notion, every facet of everything. We put in what would fit and what we felt we NEEDED.
oh, and also in the age of characters list you said that Yama is 29 and Sora is 19. their mates, and i thought there were never mates from different generations, Broadway and Angela being the exception. i figured that gargs mated among their rookery siblings because that way they wouldn't find a mate in a close (i.e. brother and sister) biological relative. so is it common for gargs to mate between generations? or are Broadway/Angela and Yama/Sora very different from the norm?
Broadway and Angela are a very unusual case for OBVIOUS reasons. (He was asleep for 1000 years. She grew up on Avalon. As a result they are nearly the exact same age biologically.)
Yama and Sora are atypical. But their love is not unheard of.
I don't ever recall saying that gargs from separate generations couldn't or wouldn't mate. It's just not particularly common.