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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending February 3, 2003

Index : Show Images

*Speechless, is in shock*

Canada's with y'all.

Later...

Pyro X
CanadaSaturday, February 1, 2003 01:03:43 PM
IP: 205.206.79.107

*enters, solemnly lights a candle and places a rock for the departed astronauts,then he exits*
shogun raptor
Saturday, February 1, 2003 12:42:54 PM
IP: 209.86.180.15

Well, my mom woke me up to tell me about it (she called). So I went outside and I saw two jet streams heading downwards; they weren't going straight down, but somewhat at a 45 degree angle, give or take a few degrees.

Jeez, there's no way that crew survived :(.
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Saturday, February 1, 2003 10:17:50 AM
IP: 66.169.210.231

Turn on your TVs, guys, something's happened to the space shuttle. :-(:.:.:


warrioress
Saturday, February 1, 2003 10:09:54 AM
IP: 65.64.125.140

AIRWALKER - Actually, I would suspect that Demona must have remembered the "theft" of the eggs; after all, she clearly remembers, after all those centuries, the Viking sack of Wyvern and all the other wrongs that she and her kind had suffered from humans between 994 and 1057, at the least. (Of course, she does display a certain selective memory; while she never forgets an evil deed that humans commit against gargoyles, she quickly forgets about her attack on Gillecomgain in 994, to the point where she doesn't recognize him as that boy in 1032, even when he comes out and tells her, and likewise is utterly bewildered as to why the Hunters keep on going after her - indicating that she clearly forgot whatever she did that got Canmore's family coming after her again.)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Friday, January 31, 2003 09:02:54 AM
IP: 65.56.169.13

TODD - You wrote: [What would really be interesting to find out is what she thought of his behavior.]

I think it would depend; prior to him waking up I think that she would have given the situation what she would see as a positive spin - that the Magus either was lying or left something out of the story; she probably would have given Goliath the benefit of the doubt. On some level she might have understood his choice, especially considering the type of life she had to live over a thousand years. She might even have envied him a little bit.

She was still in love with him at that point and besides after a thousand years I think that her memories of Goliath would have molded into something more akin to her way of thinking. I think that in AWAKENINGS 3 when she gave him the line (more or less) "all the days I've dreamed of you and this moment" that she really meant it. It just happened that reality didn't match up with a thousand years worth of dreams.

You wrote: [Most likely she condemned it as an act of cowardice]

After Goliath woke up and reality didn't match up to what she hoped for, then I could see her thinking that in anger. But only in anger - I don't think that she would really see Goliath as a coward; a fool, defintely, but not a coward.

I wonder though, would some of her anger at Goliath in the present had been due to finding out that he asked to be turned to stone? For a thousand years she might have wondered what had happened but never had known for sure. But when she read the account, she could have taken it at face value. And drawn some conclusions from it - that she was forced to live alone for all those years, particularly those early mortal years (994-1040) because of him and his impatience. It would never really occur to her that she had spent too much time wandering around in the forest strengthening her alibi and that it was her fault that she got back to the castle late even though she had an idea about what was going to happen to him. Her knack for denial would kick in and give some sort of a foundation for moving so easily to trying to kill him in AWAKENINGS 5.

(Some of that hate could be a feeling that Goliath didn't have to live her life so how can he really be able to judge her and her choices; when it came down to it she chose to live and deal with the real world while he chose basically suicide.)

You wrote: [then just let Princess Katharine and the Magus take away the eggs while not lifting a finger to stop them....]

I wonder exactly how she remembers that; it has been literally a thousand years for her so the details might not exactly be that clear; and on top of that its probably not something that she would want to dwell on too. I really wonder if in her mind she sees it that way; or even if she remembered such a thing - its possible she might have blocked it out. Her reaction to what Angela told her in THE RECKONING seems to be very much like someone who doesn't remember the events as it really happened; she did know that the Magus and Katharine took the eggs but it seems like something that she really didn't remember.

(I think that while she had an agenda when dealing with Angela in THE RECKONING she did go into the situation a little blind and that some of her reactions were real and not just acting. Her reaction to that first bit of information from Angela seemed very much like someone finding out something that she didn't seem to know or remember.)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:26:48 PM
IP: 12.88.202.40

Aaron> Oh, yeah. That's a great site !! ^_^
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Thursday, January 30, 2003 04:41:04 PM
IP: 66.169.210.231

Coming out of lurk for a moment.

Todd > Greg mentioned somewhere in "Ask Greg" that Demona knows by now that Goliath asked the Magus to put the sleep spell upon him. What would really be interesting to find out is what she thought of his behavior.

We know from the past that Demona is very good at changing her thinking to what she wants. I.E. "What did I.... What did THEY do" (City of Stone I think). It's hard to say if a thousand years has changed her way of thinking. After reading, Demona may have promptly concluded that Goliath was coerced into asking. (You have nothing now, why don't you join your friends yadda yadda) Why should she trust the Magus to record everything accurately? After all, he is just another human.

She may also have concluded that the Magus had purposefully altered what he wrote a bit. She does have some examples from history to support that conclusion. The victor always gets to write history (at least until the revisionists decide to rewrite it).

Old Kathy - [tgatekeeper1@yahoo.com]
Thursday, January 30, 2003 11:02:05 AM
IP: 198.31.97.254

DPH> It was a joke. ehhh atleast I understand me :)
Babs
Philly
Thursday, January 30, 2003 10:23:14 AM
IP: 68.83.228.122

Greg mentioned somewhere in "Ask Greg" that Demona knows by now that Goliath asked the Magus to put the sleep spell upon him. What would really be interesting to find out is what she thought of his behavior. Most likely she condemned it as an act of cowardice while conveniently ignoring the fact that she'd abandoned the clan by doing nothing to warn them about the Vikings but saving only herself, and then just let Princess Katharine and the Magus take away the eggs while not lifting a finger to stop them....

And, true, Macbeth wasn't setting out to become king. But my point is that he wouldn't have fought with Duncan and overthrown him had Duncan not persisted in attacking Macbeth at every corner, through means both covert and overt.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, January 30, 2003 07:10:26 AM
IP: 67.28.91.200

Is it really that time of the month again? You know, where we sit around talking about ways to deal with the ASKGREG backlog and never doing anything about it? Wow, time sure does fly.... :-) :-)


EBONI - Welcome!

You wrote: [I have always wondered why I never see the comic of Gargoyles on sale.]

Mainly I think that the reason for that is that Marvel didn't do a large printing of the issues so there aren't that many issues to float around. And the existing printing has been snatched up by the fans. I've been to every comic shop in New York City and I'm still 2 issues short of having the entire series.


TODD - You wrote: [Similarly, Demona-1995 neglects to mention that Goliath was frozen in stone sleep at his request]

Its not entirely clear that Modern Demona knows that Goliath requested to be frozen; she certainly didn't know both in 975 and in 994; but did Xanatos give her enough access to the Grimorium to find out the little details or would that have been something she wouldn't have chosen to dwell on once waking Goliath and the others up became a viable option?

You wrote: [and in the very process of doing so, motivates Macbeth into doing just that.]

Well, to be honest even when he was facing off against Duncan we can't really say that Macbeth had the motivation of becoming King; most of what he does is in defense. I got the impression that if Duncan had known about the Gargoyle allience and hesitated to attack then its possible that a battle might not have occurred and Macbeth would not have made any attempt to claim the crown. He mainly got it as a result of defensive victory; I think that it may even have been Bodhe pushing him a little bit into taking it as quickly as he did.

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:43:40 PM
IP: 12.88.160.249

Hey!

VOWS> I think Demona knew that she COULDN'T change history. She could only try, and in doing so -as TODD pointed out- ultimatly started the chain of events that led to the massacre(SP?). Goliath was hoping he could make Demona see the light and the error of her ways. Not only that, but he wanted to be with her agian (at least, I think it's hinted at.). Demona was hoping for the same thing.

So why didn't she save the Gargoyles? She couldn't. She tried once, and Goliath thwarted her. She couldn't try again, for Goliath took the Phoenix Gate (and we all know where it ended up.) If she had the Gate -I think- she would have kept on trying until something went her way.

This was My Two Cents.

Later~

Pyro X
CanadaWednesday, January 29, 2003 07:38:19 PM
IP: 205.206.79.107

Found an interesting tidbit at the most recent question that Greg answered at "Ask Greg".

[in vows why did't demona use the phenoix gate to stop
the death of her clan




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greg responds...

A careful viewing would show she couldn't. If you're asking why she didn't try, I think one answer is that she did. Not by going back to the daylight hours of the massacre, when she couldn't have done anything anyway, but by going back to a point when her past self might -- had time travel worked that way -- have been able to change everything from that point forward.]

What I actually find interesting here is that Demona's visit to herself in "Vows" seems to have, if anything, helped cause the Wyvern Massacre. After all, note that the Demona from 1995 neglected to mention that the gargoyles were slaughtered by the Vikings. Instead, she says only that they were killed by "the humans". It would be extremely easy to misread this as meaning the humans living in Castle Wyvern, and so believe that the clan would be massacred by those humans rather than by a band of outsiders like Hakon and Co. (Similarly, Demona-1995 neglects to mention that Goliath was frozen in stone sleep at his request, which could allow Demona-975 to mistakenly believe that he was turned to stone by the local humans to prevent him from saving the rest of the clan, or something like that). So Demona, fearing that the humans of Castle Wyvern will betray her clan, winds up deciding to help the Captain betray the local humans to the Vikings before they can slaughter the clan - and in the process, brings about the very future that she was attempting to avert.

Of course, it's actually a classic concept (bringing about the very future that you wanted to avoid through the actions that you performed to avert it). Think of the story of Oedipus; Laius and Oedipus's very attempts to avert the prophecy of the Delphic Oracle about Oedipus killing his father and marrying his mother are what bring those two events about. And even in "Gargoyles", we've got the same concept elsewhere, such as Duncan attempting to get rid of Macbeth because he fears that Macbeth will depose him and become King - and in the very process of doing so, motivates Macbeth into doing just that.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 06:59:17 PM
IP: 65.57.63.51

BABS - The size of the backlog is over 1100 kilobytes right now. The question in line to be answered was asked in October 2001. Honestly, I think submit button should be shut down until a committee has gone through to answer all the previously answered questions, hopefully reducing the size of the backlog to 500 kilobytes or fewer.
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 04:41:51 PM
IP: 204.94.193.52

<ENTER LORD SLOTH>
Right here Mr. Weisman. It's been stored in the station 8 forum <points up to link>, in the section debating what to do about this situation. I think this is the best place to talk about it though. <Lays the sacred parchment on the cookie table>

Greg's words:
1. I'm not in favor of a room wipe. People have been waiting. Others have hit (and hit and hit and hit) and probably run, but some people with legitimate questions and comments have been waiting.

2. Any solution MUST be newbie-friendly, or at least as newbie-friendly as the mess we're in now.

3. The idea of a committee screening questions is appealing with the following caveats:
a. Every member of the committee must be extremely diplomatic. More diplomatic than I am even. If you're going to represent me, then I can't risk you scaring people off or pissing them off. Yes, some questions are annoying as hell, but as a committee member you'd need to supress your desire to point that out. Assume every question is a gem. Even if you know it's not.
c. Every answer not given personally by me, needs to be clearly labelled as such.
d. My preference would be for every committee answer to be a direct quote from the archives or FAQ. That is, still my words. And preferably, not taken too much out of context. Whether this is done with links or cut & paste, I don't know.

4. I don't mind suspending the question-asked function for the time being, until we get a handle on this. But once I start rambling on eps again, I'd want people to be able to respond with comments.

5. I love the idea of redesigning the main ASK GREG page to BOLDLY point out the inevitable delay and backlog of simply submitting a question to me, without utilizing other resources first (i.e. the comment room, the faq, the archives, etc.).

6. All this is moot without Gore. This is HIS site. If volunteers can help him, that's great. But only if he wants that help. I'm not in favor of anything that Gore does not approve of.

Lord Sloth - [spunkidge13@hotmail.com]
Oakville, ON, Canada
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 02:31:25 PM
IP: 142.55.22.187

Some time ago -- you know one of those many times when you guys were discussing what to do about ASK GREG -- I think I posted a six-point plan for what I wanted to see happen. I clearly remember that there were six points. I don't remember what the six points were.

Does anyone have a record of that?
Greg Weisman
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 02:05:44 PM
IP: 66.81.255.74

I can't believe it, some answered questions !!! Now I get to tell my 8 little brothers and my 5 little sisters that they can post thier questions up now :) O JOY !!
Babs
Philly
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 02:01:04 PM
IP: 68.83.228.122

Gabe> <<Hmm, I wonder what Demona does read; maybe some misanthropic literature goes her way, no? Nothing comes to mind, though.>> Maybe she's a fan of www.misanthropic-bitch.com

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 01:36:29 PM
IP: 66.142.70.253

Wow has it been some time between visits!
Greatings for the City of Westrch many The Great Maker bless and protect you.

Dr Jenna Tation
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 10:57:50 AM
IP: 206.148.228.206

Vash> thanx!

Eboni> welcome to the Comment Room! have a cookie or 3! *points to the infamous cookie table* i spent a couple months browsing eBay before i managed to acquire a full set of Gargoyles comics. they are just rare, esspecially in good condition. at some point in the next year or so i plan to sell some of the comics on eBay that i have multiples of and at that point i'll make an announcement here in the CR, if you (or anyone) is interested!

Jimmy> sounds wonderful! at this point anything would be progress. anyone want to email Gore and fill him in? i think we all more or less agree that the Submit Question feature should be turned off for the time being, and discussing what we can do about the problem as a whole with Gore would be good!

one kinda good thing about greg answering only 1 question a day is that every day reveals something new to read, and every day there is something new we can talk about in here!

matt
Wednesday, January 29, 2003 09:22:47 AM
IP: 207.230.48.34

How about we have a conference in the chat room w/ Gore to implement a solution some time before the end of the month. We'll have a little Ask Greg convention to decide what should be done. Hopefully we can settle on something soon. But nonetheless, the Submit button should be shut down ASAP.
Jimmy
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 07:52:05 PM
IP: 199.74.80.79

Hiya...

This is my first time posting, so be gentle... I have always wondered why I never see the comic of Gargoyles on sale. I know that there is not much fan representation here in PR, but really, why is it so hard to find copies?! If anyone has an answer to this please email me ASAP!

Horribly Confused,
Eboni

PS: Where have all the S8 chatters gone off too?! Answer that too!

Eboni - [lil_eboni2001@yahoo.com]
San Juan, /, Puerto Rico
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 01:22:53 PM
IP: 164.42.133.106

...question answered. blah. =p
Vash
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:19:11 PM
IP: 129.98.123.136

Matt> Congrats on having the first answer questioned in months (and a timeline one at that!). <<sorry to be totally bossy, but seriously, why hasn't anything been done yet?>> The ball's in Gore's court. Check his weekly update to see what he's been up to.
Vash
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 12:18:42 PM
IP: 129.98.123.136

This is welcome news. But, I know that I will not be asking anymore questions to him; I will only ask them in here if need be... Just my little part to help.

Later~

(I write my Social Studies final exam in 20 Minutes. Wish me luck. :) )

Pyro X
CanadaTuesday, January 28, 2003 10:28:40 AM
IP: 199.185.68.2

well, Greg's answering questions but i still think Ask Greg needs an overhaul. for one thing, it'll take Greg YEARS to catch up, and thats assuming no new questions are asked. secondly, theres alot of questions in the queue that Greg shouldn't have to waste a day on, and third we've been talking about it for, what?, a year! lets get on the ball people!
step one would be to close down the asking question feature to Ask Greg. so lets have that accomplished by the end of Jan., can we do that?

sorry to be totally bossy, but seriously, why hasn't anything been done yet?

matt
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 09:12:00 AM
IP: 216.178.8.53

Great to have Greg Weisman answering questions, even if it's just one a weekday now. (Let's just hope that nobody sees this as an invitation to flood the list with fresh questions, especially questions that have been asked an umpteen times).
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 07:20:08 AM
IP: 67.28.94.25

Well, the bids for the Gathering 2004 were mentioned, so it's time we took our hat out of the ring.
We simply can't afford to hold the Gathering in 2004 like we had planned. With LM, Coyote, and I all having to make new house payments, Ravyn's school expenses, etc, we can't afford it.
Hopefully, we can do it in a few more years.

Same info, just said differently, is on our website.

SO... unless someone wants to donate $3K within a few weeks...
Thanks for all the support we have received over the past few years and good luck to whom ever places their bids for G2004

Fire Storm - [<---- G2004 Website]
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 03:25:25 AM
IP: 66.72.184.69

1 Q a day every weekday. Slow but steady. I like the idea. Now if only we could stem the tide of new insipid questions. I've forgotten so many questions I meant to ask just because I didn't want to add to the backlog.
Jimmy
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 02:12:10 AM
IP: 199.74.80.79

a SINGLE question has been answered by GREG!!!!! (so far)


and its mine!!!!

matt
Tuesday, January 28, 2003 01:23:53 AM
IP: 207.230.48.18

BABS> Well, the series isn't "FOR SURE" comming out on DVD. Some think that this is Greg's "Secret Project" though. I myself an hopefull.

[It's safe to say that I think we're ALL hopefull this happens :) ]

Later~

Pyro X
CanadaMonday, January 27, 2003 09:43:11 PM
IP: 205.206.79.107

Just wondering does anyone know any info about when the DVD of the first Gargoyles series is coming out, I remember a few ppl saying something about then nothing for months now, everytime I go into the movie store I ask about only for the clerk to tell me that the Gargoyles are out of print , even though I told him a number of times that they are coming out with the series, So Im hopping that anyone is smarter than that guy and knows when or if a series is coming and when, and I heard summer 2003, but not sure about that. I just dont wanna go into the movie store every week and ask for the same thing and the clerk think I'm crazy.


Babs - [Barb018@hotmail.com]
Philly
Monday, January 27, 2003 06:28:20 PM
IP: 68.83.228.122

Patrick> "Just an update- Keith David is co-starring in CSI on January 30th." [Caitlin]

Bud-Clare> 'Top Ten' here just isn't a challenge since the wipe became automated. I was also in a hurry last night--I even forgot my color. =P

Vashkoda
Monday, January 27, 2003 01:09:49 PM
IP: 129.98.123.136

I heard a rumor that Keith David will have an appearance on "CSI" this week. No details in the rumor, though, as to whether it will be tonight on "CSI: Miami" (CBS, 10 PM ET/PT) or on Thursday night on the original "CSI" (CBS, 9 PM ET/PT). But they are both good shows, so it can't hurt to tune in.
Patrick Toman
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:32:16 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

10TH!!!!


*whew* barely made it...

matt
Monday, January 27, 2003 06:52:09 AM
IP: 207.230.48.41

Ninth! YAHAHAAAA
Silverbolt
Monday, January 27, 2003 05:25:03 AM
IP: 212.50.183.100

Eighth, if you count Vash, who didn't claim a place (because she probably has a life, unlike the rest of us).
Bud-Clare - [budclare@yahoo.com]
Monday, January 27, 2003 04:31:04 AM
IP: 24.169.113.216

6th in the name of the Fay!

Mooncat

>^,,^<
Monday, January 27, 2003 03:15:43 AM
IP: 68.102.23.36

5th
Jimmy
Monday, January 27, 2003 02:57:57 AM
IP: 199.74.80.79

Babs: <<Starcraft>> Lost how? Just follow the tutorial, and start with Terran like you're supposed to.
Vash
Monday, January 27, 2003 02:22:08 AM
IP: 129.98.123.136

............4th.

I just put on MSNBC and on National Geographic Explorer, Goliath was narrating, well, not Goliath, but you know what I mean. It was about a Vietnamese photographer during their war.

Vin

castle0909
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:50:57 AM
IP: 205.188.208.136

Burst the bubble.. poor. Babs
Demona May Stephens - [realdemona@yahoo.com]
The Insane One Lives..
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:09:29 AM
IP: 216.104.138.139

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE OOOO THAT GOOD.. 3RD..
Demona May Stephens - [realdemona@yahoo.com]
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:07:46 AM
IP: 216.104.138.139

babs> sorry :( I burst your bubble. :/
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:02:12 AM
IP: 66.169.210.231

Second :(
babs
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:00:49 AM
IP: 68.83.228.122

FIRST !!
Well, I hope its warmer where you all are, it got upto 36 toady and its snowed :)
If anyone knows how to play starcraft gemme some help I got lost, to used to playing Diablo.
staying up late I have the time to be here at 12 on the dot

Babs - [Barb018@hotmail.com]
Philly Home of the Eagles that LOST !!
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:00:32 AM
IP: 68.83.228.122

FIRST!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Monday, January 27, 2003 12:00:04 AM
IP: 66.169.210.231