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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending April 7, 2003

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Oops. Guess I should put my email out there, just in case anyone knows of such a schedule as the one I talked about before. ^_^
Nickerous - [nickerous@yahoo.com]
South Carolina, USA
Sunday, April 6, 2003 09:33:04 PM
IP: 66.220.73.147

Whoops! Sorry about this double post, I just thought that It would be needed to explain the last one; I meant to pick princess Kathy.
Reba "Jade" Lee - [GargPrincess8857@aol.com]
Sunday, April 6, 2003 09:30:37 PM
IP: 152.163.189.68

Hi guys. I just started taping Toon Disney episodes. Does anyone know of a TD schedule that will list each episode that is going to be aired? I saw the schedule change earlier today. We were getting 1 episode 5 nights a week, and 4 on the weekend. Is the weekend "hanging with the heroes" slot still there for Gargoyles? If so, then we get 10 episodes a week instead of 9. I can live with that. ^_^ Currently, I have 20 episodes, so I have a lot to go. They better not take it off the air!!! >:(
Nickerous
Sunday, April 6, 2003 09:29:18 PM
IP: 66.220.73.147

Hi Beautifuls!

I never really noticed that about GC, but now that you mention it, that does occur to me. I just basicly think that they weren't as good at animating things as they should be, as they've displayed many times before. I also don't think that they were nearly as good as writting episodes. I mean seriously! They dedicated an entire episode to Bronx and some Amish kid. Not that I have anything against Bronx or Amish people, its just I think that the episode was just, well... I suppose pointless would be the best word. They should've dedicated more episodes to puck! I love Puck! I just picked Princess Kathy for this post for differentiality, I wish they'd add a young Magus picture.

Rebecca "Jade" Lee - [GargPrincess8857@aol.com]
Sunday, April 6, 2003 09:28:36 PM
IP: 152.163.189.68

Matt: Oh, I really can't figure out why I don't like it. Maybe it's the title, or maybe it's some of the dialogue, like, "Flying off to Hollywood?!!" which made me cringe. I guess the rest was okay, save for Fox's armor, which made her look like Robin Canmore... I also despise how they screwed up everyone's coloring. They even made Elisa look white! And Fox's eyes were blue and green...

The only TGC episodes I like are "For It May Come True," "Seeing Isn't Believing," "Angels in the Night" and "The Journey." The rest were just dreadful, at least to me. And don't even get me started on "To Serve Mankind"...

Does anyone else think that the ones who worked on The Goliath Chronicles were racists? They made Elisa look white, those who were black were stupid (like that black kid in Runaways), everyone was white and pale, and they intentionally changed Goliath's coloring in "For It May Come True." Oh, maybe because he was dark-skinned as a human?

What do you guys think?

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Sunday, April 6, 2003 08:57:17 PM
IP: 66.50.44.145

Thanks all!

Now I remember the ep. I couldn't belive that Gholiath would allow Broadway to "broad"cast himself to the whole world.

I did like the part at the end when Angela and Broadway reconciled. I belive that this is the type of... ... ... how do I put it? "snuggling" that Greg has said Gargoyles do when theya re in love.

Blast my arm!!!

Anyway, this reminds me of that stupid episode where that shapeshifter escape and come to Manhatan... as does Turos (Name?). I hated that one for so many reasons, especially the crapy facial expressions of Elisa., But hat's a whole other story.

Darn my arm!!!

Ugh!!!!

Later~

Battle Beast
CanadaSunday, April 6, 2003 05:03:17 PM
IP: 66.222.190.242

Demona Taina> actually, for some reason "Broadway goes to Hollywood" is one of the few GC episodes i liked. why didn't you like it? i know the animation wasn't great and there were a few scenes that even i could've written better, but i generally liked the main plot, and i thought Jackal and Hyena were hilarious and the characters were very true to their characters which GC had alot of trouble with...

Gathering 2004> hoping to make this one and i would love to visit Canada. in fact, my boyfriend and i might end up making The Gathering a stop in an extended vacation to our northernly neighbor!

c-ya kids!

matt
Sunday, April 6, 2003 03:49:48 PM
IP: 207.230.53.5

Enters room and places bowls on the sncak table. Each bown contains a few scoops of Neoplotian ice cream with banana and strawberry slices and whipcream.

Airwalker]---"That is possible but I don't think anything would really last that long if those are the circumstances under which the relationship is born and develops."

I guess the seed of the romance, but she may grow to someone who shares his views. She doesn't have to be a fighter. She could also be a doctor or a lawyer, yeah lawyer. They are going to need someone to represent them in court.

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Saturday, April 5, 2003 03:12:31 PM
IP: 64.156.97.95

Canada...? *blinks* CANADA???????

well I'm guessing that's gonna put a lot of people off going... but not me... hopefully...

silverbolt
Saturday, April 5, 2003 02:35:36 PM
IP: 81.131.196.203

OK, my problem must have been a glitch in the guide. Now it's saying Gargoyles at 10:30. Of course now it looks like that will change next week...oh, well, at least it's on at all....
warrioress
Saturday, April 5, 2003 02:34:16 PM
IP: 65.30.107.43

I'm sorry that I keep posting, but this is a very eventful day at Toon Disney...

Well! On to the news! The change in schedule is NOT because of Toon Disney's 5th Anniversary! I just saw the commercial, and Toon Disney has started: "The Power Pack." They'll be airing six episodes of "all your favorite shows" every day of the week! And Thursdays are for Gargoyles!

I can't decide whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. True, they'll be airing six episodes every Thursday, but does this mean that they will no longer air at midnight? Are they just airing Gargoyles on Thursdays because they don't want it to be daily? Or are they just starting to come to their senses and they're only trying to make the show more appealing by airing the show at a better time?

This is so exciting! What do you guys think?

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Saturday, April 5, 2003 01:40:35 PM
IP: 66.50.92.32

Battle Beast: The episode's name is "Broadway Goes to Hollywood," and it is indeed a TGC episode. You see, Fox hires two professional pilots to stage a plane crash in order to help Broadway gain fame and the acceptance of the media...

I really hate that episode.

Aww, the Gathering 2004 is in Canada? Are they ever going to make one in Puerto Rico? THEN I'd be able to go! Oh, how I dream of attending. [sigh] Oh, what dreams may come...

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Saturday, April 5, 2003 12:49:48 PM
IP: 66.50.41.100

AH! sorry for the double post!!!


If you check out the "Toon Disney" Scedual, you can click on the name "Gargoyles." In it, they have some "Video" clips. One is of Broadway saving two people from a plane crash...

Now, I have seen "Every" episode, but I don't remember this. The cip is listd as "new" but that must mean new to the site..

Is it a clip from TGC ads I fear?

Later~

Battle Beast
CanadaSaturday, April 5, 2003 12:25:26 PM
IP: 66.222.190.242

WINGLESS> I 've never contcted them about it, but I sho8uld.

Do my eyes decive me?! The Gathering in our fair country? That is Montreal, Canada right? I may jsut be able to go now!!!

Later~

Battle Beast
CanadaSaturday, April 5, 2003 12:22:52 PM
IP: 66.222.190.242

Oh, and click on my link for details about the schedule.
Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Saturday, April 5, 2003 11:25:59 AM
IP: 66.50.41.100

I think I've figured out the schedule on Toon Disney.

Apparently, the change in the Gargoyles schedule isn't permanent. You see, Toon Disney is having their "5th Year Anniversary," and they're airing six episodes throughout the week of the shows that people watch the most. From Monday to Sunday, they'll be airing, in this order: House of Mouse, Teamo Supremo, Lloyd in Space, Gargoyles, The Weekenders, and Timon & Pumbaa. On Friday, however, they'll be airing "The Emperor's New Groove" and "Chillin' With the Villains."

I checked schedule for the week after that, and everything seems to be back to normal. So, there's no need to worry about Gargoyles leaving Toon Disney! That won't be happening any time soon.

I hope!

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Saturday, April 5, 2003 11:17:26 AM
IP: 66.50.41.100

***Gathering 2003 Update***

ATTENTION PLEASE ONLINE REGISTRANTS-
The PHP was recently upgraded to a newer version on the server, causing a problem- several online registration forms were received were blank back towards the start of the month. If you submitted an online registration and did not receive a confirmation, please check the list here for your name (listed by con-badge preference). If it is not listed, we kindly request that you re-submit your order.

And we'd like to remind people that the cost for a full registration has gone up to $50; Dinner Banquet cost remains $50.

In addition, supporting memberships are now up for sale on the Gathering site at the cost of $15.
These memberships are available to that those who cannot come this year, but wish to support the con and help ensure that The Gathering of the Gargoyles continues to be held year after year. Supporting members will be listed in the 2003 con booklet, and have our eternal thanks.


*

Gathering Calendar Contest and the Monthly Gargoyles art Contest:

You heard right- the April MGC contest is our very own calendar subject of "Gargoyles in New York".
The Monthly Gargoyles art Contest originally premiered in December of 1998, went on hiatus in Feb of '00, and came back under new management in Aug '02 and is still going strong. The site, "...a monthly contest based on the Disney Show Gargoyles where
fan artists can show their talent and creativity off each month" is open to everyone. Each month features a different theme, and you, the fans, get to vote for which piece you think should win in each of two different categories.

Contests are announced at the first of each month, and artists have until the last day to submit their entries- our art contest deadlines, originally set for April 05 and April 12, have been pushed back to April 30th to fit with our calendar contest topic becoming April's MGC theme.

(Please visit http://mgc.gargoyles-fans.org/current.php and http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/contests.html for further details.)


And for all you artists out there who'd like to show off your work at the con, Panels are still being sold for both the Gathering and Othercon art rooms- $5 buys a four-foot-by-four-foot wall space with which to display your talent! (Table space is available for those whose works runs more to the 3-Dimensional variety.)

*

Motto Contest Winner:
We are pleased to announce the winning motto for this year's Gathering T-shirts, submitted by Xodiac;
our convention is indeed "Home At Last"!

*

Reminders and finalized Deadlines for the remaining contests:

Gathering and Othercon T-shirt contests: draw our mascots Madison and Death for each shirt! -(pushed back to April 30)

Gathering and Othercon Calendar contests: canon, original, or the mascots- anything goes for our calendar contests, with the Gathering
calendar themed "Gargoyles in New York" - (pushed back to April 30)

Writing contest: write a work based in the gargoyles universe... if it had been designed by Stan Lee of Marvel comics. Not only to you have to come up with the plot web for this twisted alternate world, but you also have to write an actual story that reveals and refers to all of your ideas, too." Minimum of 1000 words (2 pages), maximum of 5000 words (10 pages). Best fan fiction(s) will be read aloud at the convention. (Deadline - May 30)

Gargoyles Music Video contest: Ever wanted to spice together episodes of Gargoyles to music? Now is your chance. Create your own 5 minute or less music video featuring Gargoyles and bring it with you to the con. Best video(s) will be shown at the convention.
(Deadline - May 30)

ALL SUBMISSIONS SHOULD BE SENT TO gathering@gargoyles-fans.org

*

Announcing The Gathering of the Gargoyles 2004: Montreal
That's right, 2004 will feature our first international Gathering!
Details to follow soon.

*

The Gathering continues to have space available for those who wish to host panels, run LARPS and other games, and have a table in the Dealer's room. Please contact us at gathering@gargoyles-fans.org


http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/index.html



Lynati, Gathering Staff 2003
Saturday, April 5, 2003 01:44:39 AM
IP: 66.142.237.111

Gargoyles on TOON DISNEY; I'm not sure, but in my experience Gargoyles is never listed correctly in the TV Guide. This very night,(Friday) and all week nights they are on from 11:30 p.m. to midnight. During the weekends they are on around at 3:00 to 4:00 p.m. and the same two episodes that were on at that time are shown from 11:00 to midnight that evening. I hope that this was of some help!
Reba "Jade" Lee - [GargPrincess8857@aol.com]
Saturday, April 5, 2003 12:58:23 AM
IP: 64.12.96.71

Sorry for posting twice in one day, but I figured that those of you who have Toon Disney will be interested in taking a look at my link...

Is this the new schedule for Gargoyles on Toon Disney?

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Friday, April 4, 2003 11:18:00 PM
IP: 196.42.28.56

Battle Beast: Re Family Channel. Did you contact them recently about this? last year they claimed they owned the rights to Gargoyles till 2003, but due to the amount of other disney shows they didn't have room for it. What really bugs me is that they've run shows like Gooftroop and ducktails for years, yet they only carried gargs for less than 2! Not to mention they told me it was one of their top 10 rated shows when they were aring it. *growls*
Anyway, I'd like to know if you have heard from them recently on the subject. Thanks ^_^

Wingless - [canclan@rogers.com]
Friday, April 4, 2003 08:16:50 PM
IP: 24.157.76.94

Warrioress: The same has happened to me, I went to go watch Gargs and Teachers Pet was on, but lucky for me I got Dig. Cable and looked up when Gargoyles was on, and it seems that they moved it to either 7:00 or 7:30 (eastern), I'm not sure if them moving it into that stop was a good move. since I don't know which times are the hot spots for that TD Channel.
Babs
Friday, April 4, 2003 05:42:45 PM
IP: 68.83.228.122

Hey!

Gee, I wish I got Toon Disney... But in Canada all we have is "Family Channel" and they couldn't get Gargs again. UGH!!!

But on the plus side arm is healing quite nicely. Three more weeks till my cast comes off. Yahoo!!! (It won't tkae me twenty minutes (as this did) to wriite!!!

Later~



Battle Beast
CanadaFriday, April 4, 2003 05:38:45 PM
IP: 66.222.190.242

Warrioress: I seriously doubt it. Gargoyles comes on every night at 12:30 PM (my time) and twice on Saturdays and Sundays during the "Hanging With The Heroes" block. I think the guide was just having problems... You see, on my guide, "Gargoyles" was on the list for about five hours! I don't know whether DirectTV messed up, or whether it was Toon Disney having problems, but I can assure you that Gargoyles is still airing on Toon Disney.
Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Friday, April 4, 2003 02:55:47 PM
IP: 66.50.99.178

Did I miss something? Usually I don't watch Gargoyles anymore but I decided to flip over to TD last night just to see what episode was on. It was Hunter's Moon Part One, but my on-screen TV guide said "Teacher's Pet"! I checked the rest of the week, and Gargoyles is no longer listed on the schedule. Weird. Does this mean TD's going to bump Gargoyles off the schedule?
warrioress
Friday, April 4, 2003 02:11:00 PM
IP: 65.31.220.64

AIRWALKER - Yep, I've sometimes suspected myself that the Illuminati's real goal in setting up the Quarrymen was something different than the gargoyles. After all, we saw the same thing with Xanatos's "anti-gargoyle" schemes - it turned out that he was really aiming at something else all along and that the attack on the gargoyles was more of a feint or diversion (especially in "Leader of the Pack" where the real purpose was to get Fox out of prison). And I think that it's safe to assume that the leading members of the Illuminati must be even more cunning and subtle than Xanatos, given that he's only a lower-echelon member.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, April 3, 2003 07:21:45 AM
IP: 65.57.61.1

Airwalker<In my mind I figure that whoever he ends up with would be a "revolutionary" - someone dedicated to the cause and who could work together with him on it, help him channel some of that rage/madness into something constructive. Someone who reinforces his point of view against a more constructive viewpoint. >

How about that terrorist in City of Stone?

The Question
Thursday, April 3, 2003 07:05:23 AM
IP: 67.233.55.196

Leo:>Re Gargoyles MIDIs:

Thanks, that was a cool MIDI. :-)

Melrin
Thursday, April 3, 2003 02:22:54 AM
IP: 172.200.105.2

GREG BISHANSKY - You wrote: [Margot Yale.]

Other than disliking Gargoyles they don't really have that much else in common. Besides, Margot strikes me as someone who wants to be the center of attention; she's never going to get that from Castaway. I can see her getting tired of him ranting about Gargoyles and going out hunting night after night; being against Gargoyles on her part seems to me a combination of bad personal experience and a desire to further her career. But she probably does have a life outside of the subject and wouldn't let it concern her every waking moment. She'd get bored with him.


TODD - You wrote: [I rather wonder if the Illuminati could help to keep Castaway from going too overboard.]

I wonder if the whole point of them backing him is to have him go overboard. The Illuminati aren't trying to gain control in the world but to keep it; and what better way to get more control than to impose a period of chaos that allows you to consolidate?

We keep looking for some logical reason why they would help an obviously emotionally disturbed individual who wants to run loose in NYC hunting Gargoyle like he's on safari form a militia. Such a person and such a group isn't going to be controllable in the long run; so why do it except to benefit from what they might start out thinking can be controlled chaos? After all at the end of the day if the Quarrymen didn't show up to cause trouble and keep the subject going, Gargoyles would slowly fade back into the woodwork a bit after a while. With the Jason and Robyn in custody for the Clocktower attack, once a trial starts attention is going to be focused on them rather than on the Gargoyles. There are even after accounting for Timedancing, Mutates, Clones, and Genocidal Immortals, not more than about 2 dozen winged beings running around the city. And from those about half stay home most of the time (i.e Mutates and Clones I imagine spend most time in the Labyrinth). Out of sight out of mind unless the Quarrymen are around.

You wrote: [After all, the Quarrymen won't be much use to them if Castaway behaves in such an unrestrained fashion as to bring about the organization's premature break-up]

Your assuming that they are putting a lot of stock into the organisation. Some hammers, a base, some pocketmoney and a few other expenses aren't more than a drop in the bucket to the Illuminati. What if the only purpose of the Quarrymen in to just keep the people off balance while the Illuminati are trying to do something else? What if the chaos the Quarrymen create helps keep people thinking about Gargoyles while the Illuminati moves onto something else? What if they aren't planning for it to exist long term and only after it is created do they discover that they can't get rid of it or control it so easily?

You wrote: [and they do have a hold on him for the simple reason that they're paying the bills.]

They gave him seed money for sure but we don't know if he's do stupid as to depend completely on just one financial backer. And we don't know if they are funding past the initial startup faze. As for the hold on him, anyone who can figure that he's John Canmore has a hold on him; he is a wanted man after all. (That might be why he went with the hood idea despite the public relations problems it would cause - he needs to hide himself more than ever in public because except for changing his hairstyle and growing a mustache, anyone familier with the Canmore case who takes a look at him is going to put two and two together. Though having the Illuminati have leverage over him puts him in an interesting parallel to his sister who is also forming and leading a secret organisation.)

You wrote: [Of course, the earlier Hunters all found time to get married, though I doubt that they were quite as crazy as Castaway was.]

Well, Charles Canmore did imply that most of the time and in most generations the Hunters were largely unsuccessful in actually finding Demona. So they had plenty of time to do other things.


SPACEBABIE - You wrote: [Well he is easy on the eyes and I'm sure when he is in "calm" mode he could charm his way into anyone's heart.. A woman could feel sorry for him and from that sympathy a relationship develops]

That is possible but I don't think anything would really last that long if those are the circumstances under which the relationship is born and develops. Such a scenario would seem to me anyway to end up either in breakup or divorce, depending only on how long the woman in question decides to put up with him.

In my mind I figure that whoever he ends up with would be a "revolutionary" - someone dedicated to the cause and who could work together with him on it, help him channel some of that rage/madness into something constructive. Someone who reinforces his point of view against a more constructive viewpoint.

(Jason would invest energy in trying to convince his brother to change his ways; given how much Jason would figure in John's mind and worldview, there would have to be a strong personal counterweight next to Castaway to completely drown his voice out. A wife could do that. Otherwise given enough time it is possible that Jason could get through to him. Again while Castaway is similier to Demona, he has had less time to harden his heart towards the world. Goliath could talk to Demona forever and never make a dent but Jason could wear away at John little by little unless he finds someone to help reinforce himself.)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 11:28:34 PM
IP: 12.88.197.249

Reba "Jade" Lee: you're definately not too young. Some fans your age(and younger)have come with their parents, or arranged to go with older friends their parents trust. Some of the older garg fans "including show creator, Greg Weisman" have come with their kids in tow (like under 6). So you're far from the youngest. I myself am 37 and have attended 2 gatherings-and there are older fans than myself that attend(tho I'll refrain from mentioning names to avoid having my teeth removed without anasthetic ^_^). So, not to worry, if you can find a way to get there, by all means-you'll feel right at home. Just be sure to introduce yourself around and get to know all these chat and comment room people by face, as well as by name.
Wingless - [canclan@rogers.com]
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 10:18:56 PM
IP: 24.157.76.94

Hi, I have a bit of a problem pertaning to the GATHERING 2003, and I would be really grateful if ANYONE would e-mail or post a reply for me! Okay, here I go;<br>
I would really like to attend the GATHERING 2003, I mean really. The problem? I'm below driving age, 15 to be exact. I'm one of the youngest serious Garg fans that I've ever met. Do you think that I would feel out of place at the Gathering? Are there other "younger," people there? Would haveing a parent along (considering I can't drive) be a drag?
<br> I would be very grateful for any feedback what so ever, thank you all soooooo much!

Reba "Jade" Lee - [GargPrincess8857@aol.com]
Hillybilly town, PA, USA
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 10:09:09 PM
IP: 205.188.208.9

[But hey, how about a *real* update soon? You need to update the registered member list (I'd like to know if they got my form), the motto contest result, a reminder about the T shirt contest ending this weekend, a revision about the Calendar contest deadline, and actual deadlines listed for the writing and video contests. ]

I'm working on a new posting/mailing update, and Winterwolf is working on the one for the site. There's a few things that we want to include in the next one that aren't clarified yet, we're kinda waiting on them.

Lynati
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 09:46:21 PM
IP: 64.218.106.14

The Quarrymen hoods always reminded me of Cobra Commander. I know they were meant to be analogous to the KKK, but for some reason, Cobra always came to mind.
Jimmy
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 04:43:56 PM
IP: 199.74.80.183

Todd]--"On the one hand, you need to keep the prejudice going, because it's one of the core elements of the story and without it, the story won't be as effective. However, the drawback of keeping the prejudice going for a good long time After a while, it gets depressing"

I can see it still work. Gradually most of Manhattan would eventually accept the gargoyles, but there will still be some people who will hate them. People are much more tolerant today than 40 years ago, but prejudice still exists

"Congratulations. You have now proven yourself to be a truly sick and twisted person"
You are just now realizing this ;)

Aaron]--"obviously an April Fool's gag."
Yeah too many names

Greg]--"Way to spoil the joke Aaron"

Lol I think people would have easily figured it out, but it's a better joke than "Hey what's behind you?"

"Margot Yale."

That is pure poison. Nobody deserves that. Not even him.

"Christine Morgan did a great job with that in her fics"

True, she makes the relationship seem believable. Well with her fics any relationship can seem possible. She's that good.



Airwalker]--"Still what kind of a woman would want ot settle down with John Castaway"

ME! Give him to me! I'll club him and drag him back to… uh ^_^! Yeah sorry about that. Just with each series I fall for a good boy and a bad boy. Brooklyn is my good boy BTW

Seriously what kind of woman? Well he is easy on the eyes and I'm sure when he is in "calm" mode he could charm his way into anyone's heart.. A woman could feel sorry for him and from that sympathy a relationship develops

Spacebabie - [LadyAndromeda@smstars.zzn.com]
Orlando, Florida, U.S.A
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 12:50:50 PM
IP: 209.244.148.166

I rather wonder if the Illuminati could help to keep Castaway from going too overboard. After all, the Quarrymen won't be much use to them if Castaway behaves in such an unrestrained fashion as to bring about the organization's premature break-up, and they do have a hold on him for the simple reason that they're paying the bills. They can threaten to withhold funding (I suspect that those hammers, at the least, are pretty expensive) unless Castaway agrees to act on a more low-key level. (Of course, that does lead to the still unanswered question as to why the Illuminati are funding the Quarrymen to begin with; the answer to that question would determine a lot about just how they'd want Castaway to act).

I agree that the hoods would represent a serious PR problem (though Castaway at least had the sense to tone down the similarities by making them shaped more like executioners' hoods and dark blue in color). Of course, the disguise itself would be a necessary factor for when they're going into battle with the gargoyles; I doubt that the Quarrymen would want to be recognized by anybody on those occasions. After all, their attacking the gargoyles with electrified sledge-hammers would probably be considered vigilantism by the authorities.

(On the same level, the Quarrymen obviously would need to adopt an inconspicuous level to their battle tactics - one reason why their behavior in the Goliath Chronicles was so stupid. If you're engaged in a vigilante-style war with the gargoyles, would you consider it advisable to do such things as beating up human sympathizers, firing off heavy artillery within city limits, or attacking a passenger train, all of which would be very difficult to keep under wraps?)

The one drawback (from the point of view of the story) to the Quarrymen becoming mostly thugs is that it could risk endangering the "xenophobia" aspect to them. The criminals, after all, are the one group who have sound reasons for not wanting gargoyles around; the gargoyles would be foiling their activities. So their hatred of gargoyles would no more count as true xenophobia than, say, the criminals in Gotham City's hatred of Batman.

Good question about who Castaway's wife might be. (Of course, the earlier Hunters all found time to get married, though I doubt that they were quite as crazy as Castaway was). I doubt that it'd be Margot, of course, since, whatever her attitude towards the gargoyles, as an Assistant District Attorney, she really oughtn't to be getting that close to a man who's taking the law into his own hands. I certainly doubt that Margot would want to be seen at all as connected to the Quarrymen for fear of what the ensuing controversy could do to her career.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, April 2, 2003 07:24:16 AM
IP: 67.28.95.72

AIRWALKER> <<Still what kind of a woman would want ot settle down with John Castaway?>> Margot Yale. Christine Morgan did a great job with that in her fics.

Everyone else, thanks for the compliments.

GABE> Don't blame Aaron, he wasn't involved ;)

Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 10:52:23 PM
IP: 216.179.1.54

TODD - You wrote: [Hi, Airwalker, thanks for coming back.]

I never really left; work has just been keeping me busy and on top of that I've been trying to get myself into an MA program so I haven't had as much time to go online as I'd like. Also when I did have a chance to stop by last week the site was down and then the rest of the week I was just too busy.

You wrote: [You're quite correct in that "Gargoyles" had many other elements going on in it and didn't make human xenophobia the be-all and end-all until the Goliath Chronicles.]

Still though even if it wasn't the be-all and end-all of the series, it was the basic core theme; that's why X-Men theme comparisons can work so well.

As for TGC, while it did go towards the X-Men route of abandoning logic and driving the concept into the ground at 100 MPH, I have to wonder if in some small way it might not have been too far off the mark in general. Obviously Human/Gargoyle relations was going to be the meat of S3 plots and with a lunatic running the Quarrymen, it was only going to be a matter of time before it degenerated into the level that it had in TGC. Castaway may have some similarities to Demona but she fails due to her temper, not because she's not playing with a full deck.

The problem TGC had was that it made too many assumptions about the situation (Humans accepting Gargoyles as sentient rather than animals), and rushed alot of things. Not playing the legitimate angle on the Quarrymen for longer than it did just turned the Quarrymen overnight into another faceless group of villains. From THE JOURNEY to whenever it was when the Quarrymen showed up again there should have been something building in the background, a Human/Human as well as Human/Gargoyle clash that would then end up with the Quarrymen moving to the point they were at in TGC. Them as a group of thugs (or at least a segment of them as a group of thugs) is bound to happen given the mix of people that was going into and leading that group.

You wrote: [Then there's Princess Katharine and the Magus's conversion]

You left out Tom; and the list does go on. In the completely ordinary Human category should also include Eric and Gunther. They had an angle I thought was extremely interesting in that they were completely unconnected to anything magical and didn't have any special heroic destiny to fufill. They were just ordinary people who happened to run into some Gargoyles. (And even at the end Eric was still largely skeptical about Gargoyles and even justifiably negative about Goliath in particular. I would have liked to see some development on that if he ever popped up again - not having anything against Gargoyles but mistrusting Goliath strongly.)

You wrote: [I sometimes wonder what the Quarrymen would have been like come 2198.]

I imagine it as something largely decentralized with the violent part of it being underground, splintered, and outlawed while the non-violent part is something more along the lines of an upper class country club like organization; sort of like an evil version of the Elks. Holds meeting, gives lectures and organizes rallies and parades to promote their ideas but largely defanged. I could imagine the two parts of the group on a hostile basis with each other based on how they want to handle the situation with the Gargoyles. And I figure that its probably a bunch of Castaways running the show everywhere, in all parts of the organization. The Quarrymen in my opinion is always going to stay in some respects a family business.

You wrote: [abandoning the "hood and hammer" approach after realizing that it didn't exactly ingratiate them to the general public]

I don't think that they would get rid of the Hammer symbol although at some point the hood is going to have to go; I was a little suprised in THE JOURNEY that a group running around in kkk-like hoods would attract as much support in the NYC area. I could see the group Castaway was preaching to agreeing with him until he put on his hood; then I just can't see more than a few taking him seriously or wanting to go through with him. The hood should have been a big turn off.

As for the violence level, I figure that once the situation stabilized that they would have a military and a political branch so that they can maintain some deniability for the violence. After a while though Castaway would have to tone down any violent moves for fear of a backlash from the public. The question is how would a raving loon like him do that? I think that if when he gets a wife, that she'll probably tone things down for him, maybe make the Quarrymen "respectable" in some quarters, while he runs around like a maniac with his hired goons at night. (And yes I figure he needs to get married eventually since there are Castaways running around in the 22nd century. They aren't going to pop out of the ether. Still what kind of a woman would want ot settle down with John Castaway?)

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 10:47:13 PM
IP: 12.88.200.195

Hey, anybody notice that Greg is now updating 2 at a time. Sweet!
Jimmy
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 10:07:44 PM
IP: 199.74.80.183

Greg and Aaron> Damn you! Damn you both to hell!! *shakes fist violently* ;)
Gabriel "gaygoyle"
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 07:04:31 PM
IP: 68.116.248.99

BISHANSKY - Congratulations. You have now proven yourself to be a truly sick and twisted person. :)
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 06:41:56 PM
IP: 65.57.56.121

Vash>> Whoa, that's scary!! Thanx for warning others about it. I already went on the google site, found my number, and asked them to remove it. <<shudder>> Whose stupid idea was it to set something like that up in the first place? It's things like this that make me want to live in a little unmarked hole, cut off from the rest of the world. Scary!!
Enigma
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 06:01:14 PM
IP: 24.118.156.5

Hey guys! :D

MGC has been updated
Draw within a Shape is now open for voting
(awesome entries to those who entered! :D)
And..the April Topic is Gargoyles in NYC. MGC and the Gathering 2003 are working together, so all entries (even if you have extra ones) will be considered for the Gathering 2003 Calendar Contest. ^_^ (and yes, the deadline has been extended for April 30th to compensate MGC's deadline)

Soo..enjoy! :D

Greg> Blah..evil april fools joke (yeah..I actually fell for it. ^_^;; Silly guilable Si)..funny, but EVIL! ;)

Siryn - [ekkapinto@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 05:50:55 PM
IP: 66.66.97.209

Greg B.> Good to know--thanks!
Vash
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 05:40:27 PM
IP: 129.98.123.136

VASH> A real update is coming. And yes we did get your form, and will add your name to the list.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 05:30:48 PM
IP: 216.179.1.54

Greg B.> To make it more credible, you should have mentioned only one or two big names. It really was a bit over the top. =P But hey, how about a *real* update soon? You need to update the registered member list (I'd like to know if they got my form), the motto contest result, a reminder about the T shirt contest ending this weekend, a revision about the Calendar contest deadline, and actual deadlines listed for the writing and video contests.

Now for a piece of news that you wish was a joke, but isn't. Google has a feature that makes it possible for someone to type in your home phone number and get a detailed map stright to your house. Try it and see (type it in the search box using dashes as so: 212-222-2222). The email I got warning about this feature adds that, "If the number appears in the mapping database, an icon resembling a telephone will appear next to the first or second entry on the results page. Clicking on this icon will take you to a page containing a description of the service, and a link to request your number be removed from the database." I advise you all to do so if you value your privacy.

Vash
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 05:15:42 PM
IP: 129.98.123.136

Todd>>So that does make me wonder if such a concept as "the protagonists who are feared and hated by humanity" (such as "Gargoyles") is better suited for a one-shot format (or at most, a small group of stories) over a long-running series.

Well I think that a big part of how a storyline such as that would work best depends on the setting, plot, characters, etc. Since the idea of a group of heros that are a persucuted and/or feared minority isn't that uncommon one can look at different ones and see what makes them ultimately suceed or fail. (First off I'll admit I'm not a big fan of hero shows, Gargoyles is one of the few that have actually held my attention for any amount of time.) As Airwalker pointed out a one shot or mini-series can leave a lot of questions hanging which isn't so good since it leaves the audience wondering, but on the other hand if the plot is pretty much the same every time and not much changes than that gets boring and just plain dumb. If you also have characters who don't just see black and white, but also the grey and evolve and adapt to the situation than that will help to sustain a show/comic in a more long term situation. I think that can also be applied to a plot and setting, if they aren't clear cut black and white, but gray and evolve over time then it can also support something in the long term.

Of course long-term doesn't mean forever. I think that there would been an end eventually, since any one show can only go so far. (Of course that doesn't mean there can't be spinoffs!) Like Airwalker said every season would have probably had a major step that would have taken place in the overall storyline, so there would have eventually been an point where the main show could really go any farther without being repetitive and boring.

Ok, that's my two cents worth. Chao!

Enigma
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 04:42:50 PM
IP: 24.118.156.5

Way to spoil the joke Aaron ;)
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 04:18:01 PM
IP: 216.179.1.54

That's obviously an April Fool's gag, and not, I think, a very funny one.

Sigh. How I wish it weren't a joke.

Aaron - [JCarnage@Yahoo.com]
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 04:13:02 PM
IP: 66.139.49.253

*** ATTENTION ALL GARGOYLES FANS ***

The Seventh Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles is very pleased to announce that five new guests will be attending this year.

Joining us this year in addition to Greg Weisman, Thom Adcox Hernandez, and Greg Guler will be...

Keith David (Goliath, Thailog, Officer Morgan)
Jonathan Frakes (David Xanatos, Coyote)
Marina Sirtis (Demona, Margot Yale)
Brent Spiner (Puck)
Jeff Bennet (Brooklyn, Owen Burnett, the Magus)

More guests will be announced in the near future.

For more info, check out our website.

http://gathering.gargoyles-fans.org/news.html
Gathering 2003 Staff
Tuesday, April 1, 2003 04:02:43 PM
IP: 216.179.1.54

Hi, Airwalker, thanks for coming back. I always enjoy your posts.

You make some good comments about how to solve that particular problem, especially with the varied themes. You're quite correct in that "Gargoyles" had many other elements going on in it and didn't make human xenophobia the be-all and end-all until the Goliath Chronicles. (Indeed, the initial main human antagonist - Xanatos - was fighting the gargoyles to carry out his personal goals rather than out of fear of them - although he might exploit the public's fear of gargoyle at times, such as in "The Edge", and even the Quarryman business isn't pure xenophobia, since Castaway is motivated by revenge and cowardice - his failure to take responsibility for shooting Jason - and the funders of the Quarrymen were the Illuminati who had their own mysterious objectives here).

And Goliath does have indeed some hope for humanity; Elisa, for a start, and the humans in Ishimura (the whole human community supports the gargoyles except for Taro, and his motive for turning on them is greed rather than prejudice). Then there's Princess Katharine and the Magus's conversion (showing that even anti-gargoyle humans can learn), plus at least two cases of legendary heroes who were pro-gargoyle and still are (King Arthur and Cuchulain). Even Macbeth, while initially an adversary, stands up for the gargoyles on "Nightwatch" when debating Margot Yale.

I sometimes wonder what the Quarrymen would have been like come 2198. I speculated at one point that they might have changed their tactics a little, abandoning the "hood and hammer" approach after realizing that it didn't exactly ingratiate them to the general public (such methods could make them appear just as much a threat to the community as the gargoyles were, and the police certainly would disapprove of their vigilante approach), going for more of a propaganda approach (like, say, handing out pamphlets arguing that gargoyles were dangerous wild animals that have to be disposed of before they can wipe out the community) rather than meeting the gargoyles in direct battle.

(I recently had a creativity demon of the Quarrymen producing a "propaganda commercial" depicting savage gargoyles carrying off humans to devour - and Demona, watching it, comments with a snort that the whole notion of gargoyles eating humans is ridiculous - she regards eating humans the same way that most humans regard eating cockroaches).

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, March 31, 2003 11:58:57 PM
IP: 63.208.61.195

TODD - You wrote: [This is part of a speculation on my part that stories which have, as one of their crucial elements, the protagonists being shunned and feared by "the general public" for being different may be better suited for such formats as books, movies, or at most the mini-siere than for a long-running medium like a television series or a comic book series.]

The question really comes down to how its handled. The medium that its in will have some effect in how far the writer can go with the basic elements (books/comics could probably get more detailed and graphic while TV, and animated TV in particular, would have to be a little more restrained). TV can handle this particular plot but only if the people behind the show are willing to carry through with it and not dumb it down or let plot holes/logic gaps drag it down.

You wrote: [On the one hand, you need to keep the prejudice going, because it's one of the core elements of the story and without it, the story won't be as effective.]

The main thing is to find an angle to the plot that will allow it to be told in new ways; thats the problem that X-Men always had - it was always the same plot in more or less the same manner. It was like they were in a time warp all the time, telling the same story over and over again.

Alternately you could move on from this plot; not completely resolving it but no longer having it be the main plot point. Instead have it simmer around in the background a little to let something new grow out of it or play a new idea off of it.

You wrote: [However, the drawback of keeping the prejudice going for a good long time is the point that many people (such as Greg Weisman and Airwalker) have made about "X-Men"; no matter how often the X-Men have saved the world, nearly everybody keeps on hating and persecuting mutants.]

The problem is that X-Men kept trying to do the same thing over and over again to keep its sales going. They had an interesting angle originally with Human/Mutant relations but they just drove it into the ground because they could never really let it conclude. It didn't have to end overall; it something that can always pop up and never really has to go away. But they never gave it a chance to fade away to pop up again later.

You wrote: [Some members of the audience might even come to view the members of the "persecuted minority" who want to fight back rather than work for peace (such as Magneto in "X-Men" or Demona in "Gargoyles") as the sensible level-headed ones]

With Magneto the thing is that he is more sympathetic, at least if we are talking about Classic Magneto. (Ultimate Magneto is just a waste of paper; you could pretty much slip in any meglomaniac in his place and you'd have the same effect.) Back when X-Men was interesting (early Claremont days), they actually had this sort of discussion and Magneto came over to the X-Men to try doing things Xavier's way. And it was a miserable failure. And Magneto could prove it to everyone, in particular Xavier. And the answer that is given to all this is basically Professor X just closing his eyes to it all and saying "No, I'm right and your wrong no matter what and if you can't see that then I'm going to have my colorfully dressed cult beat the hell out of you and stop you from proving me wrong.")

That was a way of playing with the prejudice plot without making major changes - keeping it going but playing in the reaction of the characters to it not ending. The problem was that when it came time to do something about it, logic was thrown out in order to keep the plot unending. Instead of agreeing with Magneto or having X change directions or do something, anything, to keep momentum going to something new, to some new perspective or direction, Marvel opted for keeping the status quo going. And 10 years of that is what got boring. (Well to be honest, Age of Apocalypse was interesting - but that was because it was the taking the entire concept to an ultra extreme level.)

You wrote: [and the members of the "persecuted minority" who want a peaceful resolution (such as Professor Xavier and the X-Men in "X-Men" or Goliath and his clan in "Gargoyles") as utterly naive.]

To be honest, in GARGOYLES Goliath can never really approach the level of naive that can only belong to Xavier for the simple reason that its not black and white in that universe. Goliath has human allies and adversaries; he has reasons for despair and reasons for hope too. And to a certain extent, Goliath adheres to his ideals in a way that Xavier never manages to do. After all despite the X-Men universe situation and all the talk Xavier gives about Human/Mutant Co-existance, where are the Human members of his various X-teams? And where are the Human students at his school for the gifted?

You wrote: [Certainly the audience would come to increasingly pity the protagonists for continuing to protect and help a people who, in light of their being so incurably prejudiced against them, appear completely undeserving of it.]

The X-Men already lost my sympathy a long time ago; and they lost my money too since I can't stand to pick up the individual issues anymore. (I will though get a TPB of some older story arc on occassion; but the recent stuff is either just depressing, irritating, or boring. New X-Men has some new spins on some old ideas but its a bit late for me - I just lost interest too much for it to draw me back.)

You wrote: [the scene in "The New Batman/Superman Adventures" where Superman defeats Darkseid]

Well, the point in the original Jack Kirby New Gods Saga of all that was to comment on Totalitarianism and the effect it can have on people. Apokalips is meant to be just one big concentration camp. (If you really want an interesting story, pick up Jack Kirby's Mister Miracle TPB. It's a affordably priced collection of the original 1960 series and its a really interesting story; it gives a closer look at Apokalips and its society in giving Scott Free's backstory.)

You wrote: [But that's certainly a tricky process, steering between Scylla and Charybdis. And the longer the series goes, the more difficult it becomes.]

Unless the series goes into a soap opera mode then eventually the story is going to have to move on from where it started off at. The situation in the city in the GARGOYLES universe can't stay in the same situation that it is in around HUNTERS MOON or THE JOURNEY. It would have to move and shift. The one thing working though in the favor of keeping such a prejudice plot moving slowly and from disappearing completely is the fact that at the end of the day we are talking about less than a dozen Gargoyles trying to make a case for themselves to an entire city of millions. And they aren't in constant contact with most of the inhabitants; the X-Men have Mutants running around all over the place and should have had some fundamental questions addressed a long time ago. The lack of Gargoyles can help to reasonably delay some of these questions and keep the plot going.

Although in the end it is going to have to petter out a bit; some sort of status quo is going to have to be reached eventually. Season 1 got the Clan protecting Manhattan; Season 2 got them discovered. Season 3 would have probably ended up with some sort of stabilization of that situation as the beginning of the season (THE JOURNEY) was controlled chaos for the characters. And Season 4 (if only we'd have been that lucky! :-) ) probably would have moved on from there. But then again if you think about it, isn't the prejudice plot always hanging around in the background no matter what? In a way it is almost grounded in the entire concept. Even G2198 follows through with it in some way. Something else takes our attention for a while (example: World Tour) but the plot still hangs around and influences things. That is generally the way to do it right, to have it hang in the background and effect everything without it really being realized and then when your off guard have it pop up and suprise you. Not hammer it into the ground like the X-Men do.

You wrote: [So that does make me wonder if such a concept as "the protagonists who are feared and hated by humanity" (such as "Gargoyles") is better suited for a one-shot format (or at most, a small group of stories) over a long-running series.]

A one shot format leaves too many questions for the far future. You can have a happy one shot story but it will leave you wondering (and in my case a bit skeptical about the future) and wanting to know more. Something a bit more ongoing can work but logic can't be allowed to lapse. That is where TGC suffered - it jumped logic and ended up with the Gargoyles trying to force themselves to be accepted (Golaith's words at the end of TO SERVE MANKIND which illustrated the entire flaw of most of the TGC Quarryman episodes) and Humans who went from cold to hot at the turn of a switch (Margot went from hate to love without any middle grace period - I understand it was the last episode and they wanted a happy ending but come on!).

Airwalker - [airwalker9999@yahoo.com]
Brooklyn, NY
Monday, March 31, 2003 11:32:32 PM
IP: 12.88.199.45

Well, in the hopes of getting a discussion going, here's something potentially controversial.

I've recently found myself wondering, on occasion, whether "Gargoyles" would have had to wind down soon once the gargs were revealed to the world and the whole "public fear and persecution" began. This is part of a speculation on my part that stories which have, as one of their crucial elements, the protagonists being shunned and feared by "the general public" for being different may be better suited for such formats as books, movies, or at most the mini-siere than for a long-running medium like a television series or a comic book series.

The challenge is this. On the one hand, you need to keep the prejudice going, because it's one of the core elements of the story and without it, the story won't be as effective. However, the drawback of keeping the prejudice going for a good long time is the point that many people (such as Greg Weisman and Airwalker) have made about "X-Men"; no matter how often the X-Men have saved the world, nearly everybody keeps on hating and persecuting mutants. After a while, it gets depressing. The audience increasingly comes to see the "mainstream public" that will not learn as hopeless and incurable bigots, and grows disgusted with them. Some members of the audience might even come to view the members of the "persecuted minority" who want to fight back rather than work for peace (such as Magneto in "X-Men" or Demona in "Gargoyles") as the sensible level-headed ones and the members of the "persecuted minority" who want a peaceful resolution (such as Professor Xavier and the X-Men in "X-Men" or Goliath and his clan in "Gargoyles") as utterly naive. Certainly the audience would come to increasingly pity the protagonists for continuing to protect and help a people who, in light of their being so incurably prejudiced against them, appear completely undeserving of it. (I'm reminded of the scenes in "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" where the Connecticut Yankee bewilders over the way that the peasants and slaves of Dark Age Britain keep on loyally serving the nobles who so cruelly oppress them - or, for that matter, the scene in "The New Batman/Superman Adventures" where Superman defeats Darkseid and turns what's left of him over to his tortured slaves, only to see, to his disbelief, the slaves tending Darkseid's wounds with utter loyalty).

To prevent the series from reaching the point where the audience comes to view the protagonists in this light, the writers and production team would have to allow signs throughout of some people learning the truth, enough to convince us that the protagonists's dream of peace is possible but not enough to weaken the "persecution and prejudice" motif. But that's certainly a tricky process, steering between Scylla and Charybdis. And the longer the series goes, the more difficult it becomes.

So that does make me wonder if such a concept as "the protagonists who are feared and hated by humanity" (such as "Gargoyles") is better suited for a one-shot format (or at most, a small group of stories) over a long-running series. Others here may disagree with me, but at least it may get some discussion going here.

Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, March 31, 2003 06:52:24 PM
IP: 63.208.62.76

Battle Beast>> I looked at your website for the Academy Awards. It looked nice and was well organized. (Although I must admit I'm not a huge fan of the academy awards. I usually (spelling??) watch atleast a little bit of them).

Hopefully the room won't be as dead this week as it was last week and there'll be some good discussion:)

Enigma
Monday, March 31, 2003 04:45:20 PM
IP: 24.118.156.5

<ENTER LORD SLOTH>
First! Well, first post, post (after) the top ten anyway.
TOO BAD I have nothing relivant to say! MuHahaha HAhaHA HA ha!
heh heh.
<chuckle>
In Yor FACE!
<EXIT LORD SLOTH>

Lord Sloth
Monday, March 31, 2003 01:11:59 PM
IP: 142.55.22.187

10th in the name of the Fay!

>^,,^<

Mooncat
Monday, March 31, 2003 08:45:36 AM
IP: 68.102.23.36

9th.
Todd Jensen - [merlyn1@mindspring.com]
St. Louis, MO
Monday, March 31, 2003 07:36:01 AM
IP: 65.56.175.212

eighth <<stumbles off to school>>
Enigma
Monday, March 31, 2003 07:30:52 AM
IP: 24.118.156.5

7th!
Fire Storm & Lady Mystic
Monday, March 31, 2003 04:51:12 AM
IP: 66.72.176.246

Nope, nope, nope. I've counted and this makes me sixth, so sixth in the name of cute fluffy werewolf pups everywhere!
Silverbolt
Monday, March 31, 2003 04:09:51 AM
IP: 212.50.183.100

Or, 4 if you only count the people who declared their position. Don't count this post in the rest of the top ten for those of you who aren't speed demons.
Jimmy
Monday, March 31, 2003 01:58:40 AM
IP: 199.74.80.183

7th HA HA HA!!!
Jimmy
Monday, March 31, 2003 01:56:50 AM
IP: 199.74.80.183

if we go by #of people posting I would be 4th...if we go by just # of posts period I would be 6th.
Knoxville - [knox@ketnar.org]
Monday, March 31, 2003 12:33:53 AM
IP: 208.54.204.191

Guess that makes me 5th
Christine
Monday, March 31, 2003 12:31:25 AM
IP: 208.186.188.252

NOPE. SORRY!

Sorry for the double post, but this is my first time as #1. I'm gonna savour it!!!

No I didn't see the Futurama episode... what was it about???

By the by, I have a new web site up if any of y'all are interested in Oscar winning movies. (I will also be reviewing Dinsey Animated feaatures, as they almost always win and award.

THE URL is: www.geocites.com/oscarmovs

(or click my name.)

That's all for now...

Later~

Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, March 31, 2003 12:03:07 AM
IP: 66.222.190.242

Ack, second! You little cheater! You kept posting blank messages! :P

Oh, well. Second, in the name of... uh, Goliath fans everywhere!

Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Monday, March 31, 2003 12:01:15 AM
IP: 66.50.92.82

First! Mwahahaha!
Demona Taina - [demona3@hotmail.com]
Ponce, Puerto Rico
Monday, March 31, 2003 12:00:14 AM
IP: 66.50.92.82

First?!

Wooo hoo!!!

Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, March 31, 2003 12:00:06 AM
IP: 66.222.190.242