Comments for the week ending September 6, 2004

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Hello Again, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

-Gantros
Gantros
Sunday, September 5, 2004 11:52:32 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Siren>Yup yup your right I got my dates mixed up :)

Although you might have better luck advertizing in 2005 for a convention in 2006, Because by the time people get there books from comic con they already have made plans for other cons. I'd be happy to pass out gathering flyers next year at our gargoyle booth at comic con next year. Let me email you the add info. I have to get in touch with some peeps who help put comic con on and ask them what the going rate is for adds for next year. I don't think they have addressed the issue yet.

shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Sunday, September 5, 2004 07:51:57 PM
IP: 209.179.198.51

Shara> Don't you mean the comic con book for 2005? Not 2006? Gathering 2005 might be able to advertise for the next comic con book (if it isn't too late!) because I believe G2005 will be after Comic con! :D But could you email the information concerning that though? I'd really love to look through it.

Postcard pdf files are done... just on my mac at work (LONG story..) Working on getting the flyers finished
Siryn - [siryn7@aol.com]
Sunday, September 5, 2004 06:54:41 PM
IP: 68.54.148.183

I watched my tape of "Bushido" this afternoon, but I'll save my thoughts on it for tomorrow, after the room clears. Only 12 episodes left of "Gargoyles" (since I never taped any of the Goliath Chronicles, not even "The Journey").
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, September 5, 2004 06:37:43 PM
IP: 63.186.0.93

MATT> There is no huge fandom vote over where the next Gathering is held.

Usually if more than one bid is put up, there's a search committee who goes over each bid, decides which is better and then that staff gets the Gathering for that year.

I applaud that you seem willing to take on such a huge commitment as hosting a Gathering, but what you need to do first is get together people willing to be on your staff, come up with a bid, and be prepared to submit it when the time for choosing the location of Gathering 2006 comes up.

Though from the rumors I've heard, you're probably going to have some stiff competition this year. Good luck anyway ;)
Greg Bishansky
Sunday, September 5, 2004 01:49:20 PM
IP: 162.84.164.187

Patrick, so when will bidding for 2006 start.
Matt Fews
Sunday, September 5, 2004 12:48:03 PM
IP: 67.71.158.42

Shara, so far there is no info on the Gathering 2006 only 2005 which will be in Vegas.

Unfortunately, unless I win the lottery between now and then, I don't think I'll be able to attend it, so I'm counting on any Canadians who will be there to vote Ottawa for 2006
Matt Fews
Sunday, September 5, 2004 12:34:04 PM
IP: 67.71.158.42

Hi everybody.

@ Gorebash: So well, how many journals are in yet???


Hope that the cat's are OK after all.

Stay cool and healthy.
The Coma-man
Berlin, Germany
Sunday, September 5, 2004 12:19:56 PM
IP: 217.245.6.51

BLAISE - I'm sorry to hear about your cats; it really makes me understand how fortunate I was to be with my cat right until the end. And thank you for your condolences.

MATT - Yep, that's correct. Elisa has short sleeves in "The Green" and long sleeves in "Sentinel" (she takes her jacket off briefly while touring Nokkar's spaceship).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, September 5, 2004 06:57:11 AM
IP: 63.186.1.104

Todd> wild guess here since i can't recall Elisa taking off her jacket in "Sentinel", but is her black shirt now long sleeve, where in "The Green" it was short sleeved?

Jimmy> where in central Florida are you? just curious since i'll be going to school in Gainesville in a year or so...
matt
Sunday, September 5, 2004 05:58:09 AM
IP: 68.90.74.136

****A section of wall trembles as though hit by something heavy from the opposite side. This is followed by a muffled cry of surprise. The wall section then shimmers and vanishes as Blaise walks in through the empty space.**** Strange...I was sure there was a door there. Serves me right for not posting in so long.

Hi all! Been a while since I posted (nothing compared to Jonathan's 18 months, though), but I've been lurking--keeping up to date. I've just been so busy with RL. No one told me about "hiatus" (when TV work drys up), so I went through 3 months of super low income, and coming this [] close to not making rent (my Unemployment running out didn't help matters). But hiatus is now over and I've been averaging about $500/week gross profit for the past six weeks. I'd really be sitting pretty if I hadn't racked up over $300 in cell phone overage charges.
Then there's the car accident. Thankfully no one was seriously injured, but I'm going to be found at fault, and my poor car will need 3 weeks in the shop--only after I've earned the money to cover a rental car for that period (bit of advice: when you have a job that requires a car, put rental coverage on your insurace policy). At least my car runs just fine. And I won $200+ in a little raffle the other day, so things are turning around.
Now, enough about me.

TODD> I, too wanted to offer my condolances on the loss of Merlin. As you know, I lost a couple of my cats some years back (one of them named Merlynne), but in my case they just disappeared (one of the hazards of letting your cats outdoors). For all I know, they could now be living with some old lady, or been long digested by coyotes (I prefer to think the former). I do envy you being with your cat right up to the end. Your cat made his life expectancy, and was happy. One can't ask for more.

WINGLESS> My condolances on your loss, too. It's shocking when death comes so suddenly. One never quite expects it.

TO THOSE IN THE PATH OF THE HURRICANE> I shall offer my own prayers for you all tonight.

GARGOYLES DVD> Finally, some happy stuff:
YES!! We have a date! And I am really looking forward to it! Hopefully, I'll have enough money to buy a copy for myself as well as another person (or four) at that time (you'd better believe I'm going to be working my butt off to try).

THE GATHERING> SOOO bummed I couldn't make it to Montreal this year (though being truly broke is a good reason, I guess). Sounds like it was a great one.
Well, next year is in Las Vegas, and that's fairly close to me (LA). Besides, I've always wanted to go there. So, here's hoping I get all the work I need (and more) to make the Gathering next year (where maybe they'll film ANOTHER mini-documentary to put on the DVD for the 2nd season--hey, as long as I'm hoping... ;-)).

Hmmmm, I think that's about everything I wanted to say right now. Here's hoping my next visit occurs sooner rather than later. Until then, farewell. ****Blaise mentally snatches some cookies from the table and walks out through his little entranceway, which shimmers and becomes a wall once more.****
Blaise
Saturday, September 4, 2004 11:59:16 PM
IP: 209.178.189.237

:( I feel so bad for everyone in flordia. I'll be praying for everyones safety.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Saturday, September 4, 2004 11:31:29 PM
IP: 209.179.32.9

........................I'm in Tampa also(Nw Prt Rchy). By the time it gets here it should be a tropical storm. I just feel bad for (and wish luck to) everyone that's getting hit by it's full force now.
Charley didn't hit us at all. Don't know how Frances will play out. Good luck, all.

Vin
castle0909
Saturday, September 4, 2004 11:29:17 PM
IP: 152.163.252.167

Todd> You have my condolances.

How many people are down in the path of Frances right now? I'm in central Florida, and it's so calm right now it's almost scary. Pitch black outside too. The storm seems to be taking its sweet time getting here.
Jimmy
Saturday, September 4, 2004 09:55:25 PM
IP: 68.105.173.224

Patrick > Just let me know :) They don't start subbmissions for the art book until around feb and march etc.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Saturday, September 4, 2004 08:50:06 PM
IP: 209.179.239.42

No storm yet...just a lot of wind...wanted to check my stuff one more time ;)


Todd>I am car-less too. I know what you mean. No friends, family members, or co-workers? And cab services usually take animals so long as they are confined on a leash or in a small kennel. Most shelters sell the carboard carriers for $5. Also, vets, pet shops, and grooming shops sometimes adopt animals from local shelters there. Especially places like Petco, Petsmart, and Pet Supermarket. And I know many shelters have adoption drives where they will go to fairs, festivals, or sometimes just the local market with several animals and try to adopt them from there. Check out Petfinder.com, click my name, to find not only a local shelter, but you can browse many of the animals there and find your perfect one without jumping from shelter to shelter or wasting your complete time.
But hey, I know the car deal. Even if you get a kitten from the classified section or a friend/neighbor, etc. In all likelihood, if people are still left with those kittens after a few weeks, they'll bring them down to the shelter. For me, it's just afforable to adopt straight from the shelter. Also, those animals don't leave the shelter without first getting dewormed and it's shots. Most hand-out kittens never saw a vet and sometimes can have health issues.
And you need time to grieve before going on impulse to adopt a kitten. You are wise to wait. Give it time and know you have friends here :)
Siren
Saturday, September 4, 2004 08:15:00 PM
IP: 65.33.115.88

My hopes and prayers go out to all in Florida in the pathway of Hurricane Frances.

WINGLESS - I'm sorry to hear about your loss as well.

SIREN - The one potential problem is that, since I don't have a car and getting a kitten aboard a bus doesn't seem all that viable, I'll have to most likely choose a kitten from a place within walking distance of my apartment building, and I don't know of any shelters in the area. (I've never worried about my lack of a car before, since I've been fortunate enough to live in a neighborhood where everything that I need - the grocery store, the bank, the public library, the church that I attend, a couple of bookstores, etc. - is within walking distance; thus I can walk everywhere I need to go, saving on the costs of keeping a car and allowing myself some good exercise at that.) I'm going to be asking around for places that offer kittens that are within walking distance, though there's always the hope that a friend with an automobile could give me a ride to a shelter. (One thing is for certain, though; I'm going to need to get a kitten soon, if for no other reason than that my apartment is just too quiet at the moment. I keep on half-expecting to find Merlin napping in the bathroom when I walk in there or to hear him padding up to me when I'm working on the computer and meow to me; when I went out this afternoon - the second departure for today, the first being taking him down to the Cat Clinic for cremation; I didn't keep the ashes, though - I found myself about to tell him that I'd be back soon and then remembered. I suppose that this is my version of the "Denial" stage.)

In happier news, I watched my tape of "Sentinel" this afternoon. Some comments of mine follow.

I recall that the very first time that I saw "Sentinel", I was a bit disappointed that it didn't involve Arthur and Griff's quest for Merlin. I was hoping to find out more about that, and when the two archaeologists from "A Lighthouse in the Sea of Time" showed up in the "Previously On" portion, I thought that their involvement would lead to something about the search for Merlin. (Certainly I can imagine Arthur and Griff making contact with them at some point, in light of their being the ones who discovered the Scrolls of Merlin, and searching the scrolls for clues over where they could find the old wizard.) And instead, it turned out to be ancient astronaut mythology a la Erich Von Daniken - though we did get that delightful bit where Elisa says that Goliath's story has "everything in it except for King Arthur and the Holy Grail", to which Goliath replies, "Well, we haven't encountered the Holy Grail yet." (I wonder if they ever would, either. We know that Arthur and his friends were going to go looking for the Grail after finding Merlin and that Duval is - more or less - its keeper, so Goliath and Elisa could have wound up involved in that.)

Another good line (which, alongside the Holy Grail, shows that Goliath can express a sense of humor on occasions): when Elisa demands that Goliath let her go, he tells her (as he glides off with her) "You might wish to reconsider your request."

This episode is probably still notorious for leading to all those speculations that gargoyles are aliens or that Space-Spawn look like gargoyles (the evidence is that Nokkar actually mistook Goliath, Angela, and Bronx not for Space-Spawn, but for some previously unknown species that was allied with them - kind of like the Drakh to the Shadows in "Babylon 5"). One of those likely-to-be-indestructible fanmyths, I suppose, like the theory that Angela and Gabriel were lovers. (I have a little creativity demon of my own as to what the Space-Spawn actually look like, but since I submitted it to TGS - and I assume that they still plan to use it - I'd better not mention it here.)

Elisa demonstrates just how loyal she is to the clan; even subjected to amnesia by Nokkar and in a position where she's understandably sceptical about the gargoyles, she still finds herself coming to their aid when they're in need. One of her greatest moments in the series.

Elisa speculates at the end that the war with the Space-Spawn might be long since over; we know now, of course, that it definitely isn't over, and from Earth's perspective hasn't even begun. That bit seems to have gotten in based on Greg's comment that he saw Nokkar as the extra-terrestrial equivalent of one of those Japanese soldiers in World War II who didn't realize that the war was long since over.

Nokkar demonstrates the conventional "hopeless stubborness" of the man who simply never considers the possibility (until the very end) that Goliath, Angela, and Bronx aren't aliens, but at the same time, he displays some great nobility in his concern for Elisa (he immediately asks her, after subduing Goliath, if she's all right, trusts her enough to show her around his spaceship, and is willing to listen to her explanation as to why she went to the gargoyles' aid), and dedication to his mission. I liked the bit at the end where he's able to befriend the two archaeologists and Dr. Arnada.

Incidentally, a lot of people have probably already spotted this, but can you detect the animation-based continuity error between this episode and its immediate predecessor, "The Green"? (Hint: think of Elisa's wardrobe.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, September 4, 2004 07:11:46 PM
IP: 63.186.0.124

Shara > Whoa... hold the Comic Con horses, please. The location of The Gathering 2006 has not been chosen yet. We haven't even put out the request for bids yet.

Best of luck to anyone in Florida who will be weathering the hurricane.

94 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Saturday, September 4, 2004 07:01:34 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Well, I am going offline now. I live 30 min north of Daytona Beach. The house and family are ready to ride out the storm. Hopefully if power is lost, it won't be for long. C-ya guys later.
Siren
Saturday, September 4, 2004 03:46:43 PM
IP: 65.33.115.88

Demonskrye>About the comics where kind of working on a comic project for the web that opens in december. Email me for more info.

stephen> I really hope you'll be ok that storm looks reall bad right now. Take care and I wish you well.

Matt>If you can get info for the gathering in 2006 I will get comic con to put an add in there art book they hand out to all the attendys. That will help a great deal. They pass the books out at each comic con. So the add will apear in the 2005 books. If you email me today I think Yahoo's mail is down so I might not get your email till later.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Saturday, September 4, 2004 02:58:59 PM
IP: 209.179.210.188

Todd > As long as you remember him, Merlin will never truly be gone.

Stephen (and any other Floridians) Stay dry and good luck!
kathy
Saturday, September 4, 2004 02:07:58 PM
IP: 66.82.9.38

Hey, Wingless, want to help organize the Gathering 2006 in Ottawa, I would really appreciate any help I can get.
Matt Fews
Saturday, September 4, 2004 02:07:46 PM
IP: 64.228.205.119

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss, both of you. *huuugs*

A question: if I posted a link to my journal here, did it get picked up? I never knew I was supposed to post it anywhere else! If anyone wants it now, click my name.

Also, will you all be using the old Gatheringofthegargoyles con list to email ppl when and where to buy preorders on the dvd to synchronize better? I'd really appreciate it myself. Don't wanna miss that!!

My sister is attending a vegas convention right now and I sent with her 40 copies of tiny homemade fliers advertising the con as well as the dvd release w/ the gatheringofthegargoyles.com web address on it. I never got to see anyone else's fliers! I'll be asking around book and comic shops today. Go us!!
Jade Griffin
Saturday, September 4, 2004 02:03:11 PM
IP: 24.205.211.146

Just got work, they want all people in low-lying areas in Hillsborough Co. to evac, in case of storm flooding, so that means I have to go.

Take care all... hopefully my home won't float away...


Maintain and check Six!

Stephen Sobotka Jr.
Tampa, FL
Saturday, September 4, 2004 01:47:20 PM
IP: 24.164.29.157

Belated condolences on your loss, Todd. Like many people here, I've experienced the loss of a beloved animal several times. Size and age doesn't seem to relate to how much you end up missing them; Igoo the dwarf hamster was only with us for a year and a half, but we were still deeply saddened when he left us over two moths ago. I'm with Siren in my support of animal shelters. But whatever you decide to do, I hope you're very happy with your new kitty friend.

Condolences to you too, Wingless. I haven't had as much experience with losing people close to me, but I hope your good memories help you through this sad time.

Oh yeah, Gargoyles....

I was thinking a little about other shows that have risen from the ashes of cancellation. Aside from "Farscape" (TV movie with possible continued series due to fan petitioning), there's "Family Guy" (new season due to extremely good DVD sales) and "ReBoot" (extra season/ two mini-movies due to good ratings of Cartoon Network showings). While life after cancelation is a growing phenomenon, it's still a fairly rare thing. So I was wondering: what other media might be used to continue the story of Gargoyles. A new series would be ideal of course, but if that weren't possible, some other format would be better than nothing. A few ideas

Direct-to-Video
Aside from TV, Direct to video (and DVD) is now Disney's preferred format for 2D animation. If Disney wants to use directo to video to explore other genres, Gargoyles has the advantage of already being developed and having a pre-existing fan base.
-Pros: Gargoyles would be in it's original 2D animation medium with a big enough budget to make it look good and get all the voice talent back. Good sales could lead to the regular series returning.
-Cons: Stories might have to be movie-length, eliminating the chance to tell stories on a smaller scale. (Some Disney DVDs do consist of a couple of shorter stories strung together though.) We'd also only get one a year at most.

Comics
We already had some Gargoyles comics and Greg had expressed an interest in writing an issue.
-Pros: We'd still have Gargoyles in visual storytelling. Greg and some of the other show writers haven written for comics before. Comics are less expensive to produce than animation. Potentially, we could get a new gargoyles story every month.
-Cons: Disney no longer has it's own comics publisher. Most new material, like the upcoming Incredibles graphic novelization, come out through Dark Horse. It's iffy whether they would want to publish a comic based on a cancelled Disney show.

Books
Greg has shown us his prose writing skills and I imagine many of the other show writers would be happy to write a volume.
-Pros: Disney DOES have a book publishing house. Books are very cheap to produce as compared to an animated TV series. There's a precedent with the Trek and Star Wars novels.
-Cons: Except for the possibility of a few illustrations, no pictures. Potentially, we could be waiting a long time between installments.

That's all I could think of, except for radio-play styled CDs, which I didn't really consider since there's no modern precedent for that.

Any thoughts?
Demonskrye
Saturday, September 4, 2004 01:37:09 PM
IP: 209.150.45.114

Todd, for a small fee (about $30-$40) you can get your pet cremated. We did this for our last cat that died. Along with the ashes they made an impression of her paw as a keepsake. For a pet you've had so long, I think it might be worth the investment.
Leo
Saturday, September 4, 2004 01:17:03 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

Todd> Condolences for your lost. Sounds like Merlin led a long and happy life.
Greg Bishansky
Saturday, September 4, 2004 01:13:05 PM
IP: 162.84.164.187

Todd>Try your local Humane Society or any other animal shelters. Kittens are a dime a dozen there. And IMO, it's cheaper to get a kitten from a shelter then to get a free kitten from the newspaper. Here's why...
My local shelter adopts female cats for $75 and male cats for $65. If the animal is already fixed, it's just $22. Now that adoption price includes it's spay/neuter, vaccines done at the shelter, worming, heart worm check, goodie bag, I.D. Tags, and a free visit to a participating vet. Now that goodie bag includes a medium size bag of kitten/cat food, plus extra small bags, a scratching post, toys, information booklets, and coupons.

Now go get a kitten from a free newspaper ad. The kitten's free yes. But the vet will charge you FULL price. By the time you get all the very same things the shelter gives you, it will be over $200. All for a little kitten or puppy that probably isn't even a purebred.

If I'm preaching to the converted, sorry, :)
I work at my local shelter. I see too many people jump on the free pet ads and then complain about the cost of that "free" pet.
Siren
Saturday, September 4, 2004 11:52:37 AM
IP: 65.33.115.88

Todd > condolences on the loss of your cat. It's hard to lose any pet, especially one who's been a part of your life for so many years.

Oh, no ... Greg ... they're coming perilously close to discovering the sinister truth about us ... ;)
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Saturday, September 4, 2004 10:04:54 AM
IP: 67.136.137.129

I want to thank everybody for the condolences that they sent me over my cat's passing. Those words of comfort really meant a lot to me.

I'm taking his body down to the Cat Clinic (fortunately on the same block as my apartment) to be disposed of, this morning. And I'll start looking soon for a new kitten to succeed him.

Re the Mutates: Greg Weisman also used the concept that the Mutates hadn't finished mutating by the end of "Metamorphosis", come to think of it. Another case where he and Christine both hit on the same idea (like the notion of Finella and Mary being transported to the 1970's after they left Avalon, though Greg and Christine used different methods for getting them there).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, September 4, 2004 07:01:54 AM
IP: 63.186.1.156

DPH> Although it isn't canon, Christine Morgan gave a good explaination during her "Kittens" story. Sevarius explained that the mutates kept mutating after "Metamorphosis". From their fuzzy form in Meta, to their current, sleeker form in "The Cage" and beyond. As for Thailog, Lex checked the computers looking for Maggie, and once locating her, they presumably went straight to her, without looking at the other labs. I don't think even if they saw a door labeled "Project Thailog" would have held much meaning to them at the time. Remember, Goliath's generation didn't see names as important as the later ones do, and likely wouldn't have even been aware of Thailog being an anagram of his own name, and thus seen the connection.
Gantros
Saturday, September 4, 2004 02:13:19 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Todd>sorry to hear about your loss. I am a vet tech at a vet hospital in california and I know how hard it can be loosing yoru pets. I try to help many people through there loss. I've lost 5 pets and I know how they are very special and close to you.

You take care and lots of hugs for you. Email me and I'll send you some comic con gargoyle goodies to help bring up your sprits.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Saturday, September 4, 2004 02:08:38 AM
IP: 209.179.210.122

Todd>I am sorry to hear of you loss
Siren
Saturday, September 4, 2004 01:17:48 AM
IP: 65.33.115.88

Todd - Actually, I'm more struck by the date revelation about at least a few of the events of Metamorphosis. Actually, I just had a thought: How did Xanatos make sure that when Goliath broke into Gen-U-Tech, Goliath didn't accidently stumble into Thailog? Another comment: Did anybody notice besides me that Maggie's wings appeared to grow during this episode? At 1st, they were small, then they grew to fall size, implying that Maggie had only recently become a mutate.
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, September 4, 2004 12:20:34 AM
IP: 67.14.195.40

Todd: I'm so sorry to hear that. I'd be heartbroken if I lost one of my cats: Mishu, Kiaro, or the two females. I've gone through the same thing with other cats, and it's so difficult to cope with the loss. Merlin's in a better place now and just remember that he lived a long, happy life.

I'm going to go cuddle with Mishu now...
Demona Taina
Saturday, September 4, 2004 12:12:51 AM
IP: 172.133.88.129

Todd: Awwww. I'm sorry to hear that. :-(

Sixteen years, I hope my kitties live that long.
Leo
Saturday, September 4, 2004 12:11:34 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

I'm sorry to hear that Todd. Its always hard to loose a family member. Having been through this twice, I know what you're going through man...only they were dogs.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Friday, September 3, 2004 11:15:45 PM
IP: 207.65.41.84

Todd > I'm sorry for your loss.
Patrick
Friday, September 3, 2004 10:48:31 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Todd: I'm sorry for your loss. It's always hard to lose a member of the family. Pets are exactly that too(I've been through that a few times myself). I lost a close friend if mine this week too rather suddenly. One of my older music buddies who was a fountain of knowledge when it came to music and people in the industry. I talked to him last on saturday and we lost him on monday. I share in your grief.
Wingless
Friday, September 3, 2004 10:19:46 PM
IP: 69.196.243.7

IN MEMORIAM.

My beloved grey cat, Merlin, passed on this evening. He was close to 16 years old, and will be greatly missed.

R.I.P. - MERLIN - 1988 - September 3, 2004
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 3, 2004 10:08:47 PM
IP: 63.186.2.247

forgot to post my name Hehe.
Shara
Friday, September 3, 2004 08:28:10 PM
IP: 209.179.244.95

Patrick>I ment there are alot of people who would love to go to the gathering but they can't because they will be attending siggraph or comic con etc. We advertized the gathering alot at comic con this year so hopefully more will get to vegas.
Anonymous
Friday, September 3, 2004 08:27:47 PM
IP: 209.179.244.95

Martin - You can sent that to my gmail addy. Might as well test it out now that I have it.

Matt - Your best bet if you want to put in a bid for a future Gathering is to round up a few more local people for your con staff.

Shara - The Gathering WAS in August this year. The trouble with August has always been it has to be early August, or you start running into a lot of people who won't be able to make it because school (college) is starting up for them.
Patrick - [patrickat@gmail.com]
Friday, September 3, 2004 07:47:00 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Greg finally answered three more questions today; I hope that he hasn't suddenly been confined to only being able to answer questions on Fridays. The queue will take a lot longer to catch up on that way; there's still over 700 questions in it (and the really scary part is how many of these turn out to be the same person - in one case, Anonymous - asking lots of questions, mostly of a "trivia" nature such as which member of the Third Race is older than which, in the course of a few minutes).

I was reading "The Starlore Handbook: An Essential Guide to the Night Sky" by Geoffrey Cornelius (a fascinating book on astronomy and legends about the stars and other sights in the night sky), and spotted this sentence in the section on the moon. "A frequent lunar motif is that of the Triple Goddess, in various roles, as three Fates or Norns, or three witches." Which certainly fits in with the individual names of the Weird Sisters.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 3, 2004 07:40:54 PM
IP: 63.186.0.127

I will be attending the Mega-Con in Orlando in Feb. I'd be more the happy to put a big stack of flyers for the next Gathering, out and pass them around when I visit. I can design them myself. It's a 3 day event and I only visit one day, usually Sunday, but perhaps I will make it up there for Saturday instead. At least for one day, I can put out the info. If money goes well for me, I shall try to make a new gargoyle costume. All my other wings I made or had made for me were destroyed when the roof collapsed in my bedroom from a hurricane a few years ago :(

BTW, Mega-Con is a convention for comics, movies, sci-fi, fantasy, tv, artists, RPG, you name it. Click my name for info on Mega-Con.
Siren - [sirengarg@yahoo.com]
Friday, September 3, 2004 06:36:55 PM
IP: 65.33.115.88

Being new to the comment board and everything I hope you don't mind if I throw in my two cents. ;-)

If you guys really want more people at the gathering one word. "Augest" Do not have the gatherng in augest. Due to Comic con, Siggraph, World con, And Otocon. These conventions alone drive almost half the animation industry away from the gatherng.

If anyone wants me to get an add in the comic con Art book for the year 2006 for the gathering let me know because that book is read by over 70 thousand people id be willing to pay for it. This year is too late though because it's past out to people in augest.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Friday, September 3, 2004 04:15:38 PM
IP: 209.179.198.243

I forgot about the included mini-doc, I admit. But here's hoping, With Pixar splitting from Disney (unless that's changed since I last heard about it), Disney may go through it's archive of series and movies and look for franchises that had real staying power (Aladdin went through about 3 seasons with the original voice actors, except Mr.Williams). With anime's epic storytelling and character depth, maybe Disney will give Gargoyles another try in order to compete.
Gantros
Friday, September 3, 2004 03:53:08 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Maybe if I remembered the web address right... OY!

:: corrects the link and goes to get some caffine::
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [crzydemona@gmail.com]
Friday, September 3, 2004 03:32:02 PM
IP: 207.178.216.226

Gantros - Yes, there will be a mini-documentary as an extra on the DVD and The Gathering web site listed on it as well. (click my name for The Gathering Website... and bookmark it! Big changes are coming soon!)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [crzydemona@gmail.com]
Friday, September 3, 2004 03:30:27 PM
IP: 207.178.216.226

I understand, but just because people buy the DVD doesn't mean they will be aware of the fandom. UNless, of course, information about it will be included in the DVD or something
Gantros
Friday, September 3, 2004 03:23:49 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Jen: well, knowing that the attendance hasn't declined is a bit of an upper :)
IRC Goliath - [goliath1 (at) pacbell [dot] net]
Friday, September 3, 2004 02:46:44 PM
IP: 209.234.142.80

Gore - Fan the flames? How did that fan the flames?


Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [crzydemona@gmail.com]
Friday, September 3, 2004 02:18:22 PM
IP: 207.178.216.226

Gore: Working on ideas for ads to propose to Chris.
Further Confusion con book, Mega Tokyo, Keenspot, Star Trek con book ads (especially if we can get Frakes), DVDtoons, toonzone, etc. Problem is they cost MONEY.
A million hits on Keenspot alone is $1,000. You're looking at about the same price for Mega Tokyo.
IRC Goliath - [goliath1 (at) pacbell [dot] net]
Friday, September 3, 2004 02:06:44 PM
IP: 209.234.142.80

Allow me to fan the flames a bit.

There really hasn't been a drop-off in Gathering attendance over the past 8 years. The 2001 con is the exception to the rule, where we had a spike in attendance. Remove 2001 from the list, and the numbers are pretty even.

The 2005 con will be big. No doubt. The DVD sale will help. The location will help. I think a whole fandom is going to be revitalized with the DVD release. Not right away, mind you, people will probably have to 'find' the DVD. But the numbers will slowly grow.

Maybe the 2005 guys ought to look into tossing up a cheap ad on Megatokyo or some other place where your typical toon fans are going to be found.

Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
Friday, September 3, 2004 01:40:53 PM
IP: 192.207.57.15

Jen: And the fact that one of the extras on the DVD is a documentary on the convention, which will let people know about it, sure wont hurt things either :D
IRC Goliath - [goliath1 (at) pacbell [dot] net]
Friday, September 3, 2004 01:05:05 PM
IP: 209.234.142.80

Jen, I hope you can help me with my Ottawa Plan for 2006.

Hopefully, by then, Season 2 will be available on DVD.
Matt Fews
Friday, September 3, 2004 12:10:16 PM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Gantros - As the person in charge of The Gathering... I can tell you that you idea is not fiscally possible. I would think that the number one reason that attendance has been dropping since 2001 is because the show has been off the air for nearly 8 years. Something that I think will change once the DVD is released. I expect the attendance in Las Vegas next year to be the highest EVER! Not because of location or staff, although those help... but because people will REMEMBER what a great show it was and want to celebrate it again.

If it wasn't for the DVD, I would expect the Las Vegas con to have similar numbers to 2001 at best.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [crzydemona@gmail.com]
Friday, September 3, 2004 11:06:51 AM
IP: 207.178.216.226

Patrick> I quickly made a screenshot of Elisa as Salli, just tell me where to send it.

See you all.
Martin M
Fulda, Hessen, Germany
Friday, September 3, 2004 09:35:13 AM
IP: 217.238.90.247

Tip of the day: If turn off the flash on your digital camera, you can take pics of the TV screen and easily get results that are good enough for government work. Or good enough for fanfic research, as may be the case.

There is a real shortage out there of screenshots of Elisa in her undercover outfits. Someday when I get some software that will let me make screenshots, I''ll have to do something about that.

The Gathering has always allowed walk-ins, but they have to fill out a membership form at the registration desk and pay like everyone else. I know of no convention out there that lets people walk-in for free. What on earth would be the incentive for anyone to pre-register if walk-in admission was free? No payments for membership means no budget for the con staff, and that means no function space and no guests. And at that point, it's not a convention, it's just a bunch of cheap people standing around a hotel lobby.

95 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Friday, September 3, 2004 06:57:21 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

We know that (in Greg's opinion) the three women who took King Arthur away to Avalon after his last battle were Morgan le Fay, the Lady of the Lake, and Nimue rather than the Weird Sisters, so I think that it's safe to say that not all mythological trios in the Gargoyles Universe are the Sisters.

Elements of Hindu mythology (or, at least, Indian mythology) have made it into animated adventure series before; I recall a couple of episodes of "Mighty Max" which included them. (One involved Hanuman the Monkey King as being one of a group of legendary heroes that Max, Virgil, and Norman were recruiting to help them against Skullmaster - Beowulf was another; the other had Max and his friends thwarting the schemes of a villainous naga who wanted to use the goddess Kali to help him conquer India, and included a cameo from the elephant-headed god Ganesha, whom Norman fought.) So I think that Greg might have been able to work such elements in somewhere - though not by making the leading Hindu gods another alias for the Weird Sisters, obviously. That would be about as probable as making the Judeo-Christian God one of the Third Race.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, September 3, 2004 06:56:49 AM
IP: 63.186.1.213

Htols Drol - <This is all quite hypothetical of course; realistically I think Greg would be traveling on thin ice over hot water if he or anyone wrote in
that Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva were really three chicks from Avalon seeing as how they are still fairly popular in the world today. But I could be wrong and it could still be done respectfully.> I disagree. Go back to "Cloud Fathers". Coyote is very much a part of Native American culture and the revelation about the truth was handled very carefully (if Coyote turned out to be a member of the 3rd race, then it's a safe bet that all of the Native American gods who really exist are members of the 3rd race.). On the other hand, if all triplets who have the characters of grace, vengance, and fate turned out to be the same people, it would start to get odd because of explaining how those three worked their way into lots of different myths.
DPH
AR, USA
Friday, September 3, 2004 02:26:17 AM
IP: 67.14.195.4

I've never been to a Gathering, though I would hope to make the Vegas one next year (being 21 as of last December certainly opens up my tourist options there ;P). However, with some of the reports that the Gathering attendance is dropping, perhaps the people in charge of the Gathering should allow unregistered walk-ins. Of course it won't be full access that members have, but it would at least "spread the word" as it were.
Vegas could be an opportunity to bring in new blood, old blood, and high-rollers who are looking to spend obscene amounts of money on anything for kicks (the last was a joke, to all you high-rolling fans out there).
Gantros
Friday, September 3, 2004 12:39:23 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

I think Gargoyles will do very well too. It is being released on a day with very big name movies, but it's different then those movies. It's an animated fantasy show with a huge fan base. Even if some fans opt to get Matrix before Gargs, by the end of December, the numbers should be high. What with Christmas and all. I plan to get at least 2 copies. One for me and one as a Christmas gift for my boss. Maybe more if I think of other people who might like it. I do plan to buy on the release date. No waiting for me.
I think Disney needs to start advertising soon. Add previews on their upcoming DVDs, commercials, maybe even have that lame "Mike's Super Short Show" on Disney Channel feature it. A marathon of the show on Toon Disney or the Disney Channel. Release the cover art to the public. Disney could do a LOT to advertise for it.
I just bought Lion King 2's re-release on DVD and rushed home to check out the previews to see if they had one for it. *sigh* No go.
Upcoming Disney DVDs that should or even might have Gargoyle previews are: Home on the Range, Aladdin, Mulan, and Mickey's Twice Before Christmas. There's also a Bionicle being released before Decemeber. Any of those may have a Gargoyles preview. Frankly they should.
Siren
Friday, September 3, 2004 12:26:03 AM
IP: 65.33.115.88

<ENTER LORD SLOTH>

Return of the Competition> This might be crazy, but mayhaps we can use ROTK coming out to our advantage? Since the Ringers fandom is quite huge, we should maybe advertise our DVD a bit in their popular forums. "Hey, you all love Gimli don't you? You all want to marry John Rhys Davis don't ya? If you don't, shame on you, but at least take this opportunity to hear him once more in his "Greatest" role yet! When you're out buying your extended editions this December, pick up a copy of 1st season Gargoyles for LESS THEN thirty dollars <cough>notincludingtax<cough>."
Yeah, I know. John was only in one episode, and at that point, MacBeth is still just a good enigma rather then a good character. But then we can also appeal to their love of fantasy and the fantastical, epic themes like good vs. evil, redemption and corruption.
Naturally, other (and probably better) places to go and pump up the hype are star trek fan sites, tell them about Marina S., Jonathan F., Nicole N. and Michael D. And tell them if we can get good sales they can get Brent S., Kate M. and Avery B., most trekies/trekkers idolize the actors of their favorite show, this idolization is something we need to tap into.
Not to mention the plethora of Shakespeare fan sites <snicker>. Well, maybe there's more then I think, I honestly don't know.
This may have all been thought about weeks ago and is already in progress, if so forgive my pretentiousness. Yet even if that's so, I don't believe this resource should be taken lightly.

Greg Bishansky> "I'm confident "Gargoyles" will do well. A lot more people remember it than we think"

I think you're probably right about that and I think there are enough potential buyers out there to make Disney take notice, however, take heed when it comes to confidence.
One show that has managed to come temporarily back from the nothingness that is cancellation, Farscape, has done so with an amazing effort on the part of the fans to get it's name out into the media and the general public. Now I'm pretty sure it has a bigger "cult following" then Gargoyles has, a following that has managed to get a mini series to be made (coming October 17th) with a hope for more to follow. They call this a "make or break" situation, just as Greg has, and are not (for the most part) relaxing with their success, but are as nervous and as frenzied as ever to make sure this chance doesn't flop. Now, maybe their being over critical, maybe both Farscape and Gargoyles will do wonderfully on their own merits (and I pray this is true), but it's still too big an opportunity to just let it happen on it's own.
I hope I don't sound like I'm picking on you at all by the way, I was simply using your off hand remark to say my piece to everyone. So, I'll get down of my soapbox now.

And incidentally, if anyone's interested in seeing some of the ideas Farscape fans (AKA scapers) have pulled off for their campaign, just click me name. They (the ideas) are generally about, not so much buying DVDs (though that is important) as getting the word out, making adds and getting noticed (like they did when they sent thousands of bras to the Sci Fi channel). Granted, a lot of these ideas take a bit of money to implement, which is easier for a big campaign to get together, but someone good at strategizing might be able to think up something more doable for us.

Todd> "Actually, the gender's wrong for all three of them (Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva alike), so I suppose that the similarity between their domains and the Weird Sisters' is just a coincidence."

Hmm, if Oberon's children have so much versatility in their shape changing abilities, who knows if gender is really any kind of restriction, or even an issue for them? This is all quite hypothetical of course; realistically I think Greg would be traveling on thin ice over hot water if he or anyone wrote in
that Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva were really three chicks from Avalon seeing as how they are still fairly popular in the world today. But I could be wrong and it could still be done respectfully. <Shrugs> Who knows?

Shara> Ah, postcards eh? Count me out then I think, I don't know many people (off of this site) who like Gargs and those I do I can simply tell them or buy em a copy of the DVD when it arrives.
Still, flyers to post in schools, comic stores and the like is a good idea. Perhaps they could be printable…

<EXIT LORD SLOTH>
Lord Sloth - [nibor_niwri@hotmail.com]
Kingston, ON, Canada
Thursday, September 2, 2004 11:56:15 PM
IP: 199.246.2.11

Not to mention the huge Matrix 6 and 10-disc collector's editions will be released on Dec. 7th as well.
The Barracuda
CanadaThursday, September 2, 2004 11:12:05 PM
IP: 204.209.150.46

Well I am getting the LOTR ext release along with those multiple copies of Gargs season one. 20 bucks a week goes into my secret hoard. *shifty eyes* My parents make unknowing donations in the form of "lunch/gas" money. Im a poor college student so that avenue is a must! ^_^ *tries to look innocent* I do it for the Precious! Both of them! I just hope that other hurricane doesnt make matters worse, southern fl wouldnt be able to handle a double hit. Time to get back to my wonderful studies....so much homework. By the way anyone know what the dvd cover will look like?
Kristina - [Kristinaable@tampabay.rr.com]
Wesley Chapel, FL
Thursday, September 2, 2004 09:49:21 PM
IP: 68.202.31.200

TODD> Well, if "Gargoyles" is the #2 best selling DVD of that week, that ain't bad.

I'm confident "Gargoyles" will do well. A lot more people remember it than we think. Thirteen episodes and a bunch of extras for $29.99 (and it will be on sale cheaper than that) is a very sweet deal. Plus there's the nostalgia factor... "I remember this show, I loved it!"

I'll be buying both, but the extended edition of King is more for the fans than the casual movie-goer. The casual movie-goer tends to buy the theactrical (inferior) editions, and for the past three LOTR films, the theactrical editions outsold the Extended by a clear margin. Which is really too bad, because the extended editions are clearly superior films.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, September 2, 2004 07:49:17 PM
IP: 162.84.164.187

BISHANSKY - Well, that's certainly good news. I'm glad that the release of the "Gargoyles" DVD won't have to compete now with the release of DVDs about two of the best-known comic book super-heroes in the world; now it only has to compete with the release of the DVD of a movie adaptation of one of the most popular fantasy novels ever written. (And a movie with a pretty big fan base itself.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, September 2, 2004 06:57:29 PM
IP: 63.186.0.169

Ah, excuse me Greg B, but I think Pluto's own two-disc set (Also Dec 7) is pretty big. (Well, in my mind only maybe...) :)

That is all I will say.
Battle Beast
CanadaThursday, September 2, 2004 05:54:21 PM
IP: 142.59.132.116

Good news for the "Gargoyles" DVD.

*******************

From ToonZone:

"Warner Bros. has announced a delay for the upcoming Batman: The Animated Series - Volume Two and Superman: The Animated Series - Volume One DVD sets. Originally planned for a December 7th, 2004 release, these DVDs will now hit the streets on January 25th, 2005. For a complete rundown on the disc count, specs, extras, and more, check out the Toon Zone News coverage."

********************

So the only other big DVD coming out that day is the Extended Edition of "Return of the King".
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, September 2, 2004 04:45:26 PM
IP: 162.84.164.187

Vertigo: not at all. check my link.

If it was simply because of the video format, then why are there 6 regions (7 really) instead of 3?

It's more for profit than anything else. Movies in, say, India, cost maybe US$3 while here it costs US$20 on average. The region encoding is to prevent people from importing cheaper DVDs into the US.

More links on info about DVDs:
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
http://hometheaterinfo.com/dvd3.htm
http://hometheater.about.com/cs/dvdlaserdisc/a/aaregioncodesa.htm

This is why I have a modified Apex AD-703 (although the AD-600 is the original of the hackable DVD players). Region free, macrovision free, converts between PAL and NTSC-M signals, and I can even get around RCE (which blocks region 1 DVDs on a region-free player).

There are a ton of ways to get around region encoding. This probably hit an all-time-high back when West Wing was released on DVD only on Region 2 PAL (UK).

Legalities of all this? It's a gray area. There's a question of at what point fair-use comes into play. If I buy a region 2 DVD, shouldn't I have the right to play it? But then you have the DMCA in the US which makes it illegal to circumvent copyright control mechanisms.

But Gargoyles is being released as region 1 so it's a moot point for me. For people outside the US, you may very well be free of such laws and worries. In which case, there are a ton of region-free hacks for both standard players and DVD-ROM drives for your computer.

I'll leave it up to you to seek that stuff out, but Google is certainly the place to start.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
Thursday, September 2, 2004 03:41:39 PM
IP: 192.207.57.32

The region system was put into place so that when you buy a DVD, it will display properly on your TV set. There are three different display modes. (NTSC, PAL, and SECAM) It was originally thought that it was put into place to keep people from getting DVDs before anyone else (ie: imported anime from Japan) but for obvious reasons thats not true.

http://www.high-techproductions.com/ntsc.htm
http://www.high-techproductions.com/pal.htm
http://www.high-techproductions.com/secam.htm
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Thursday, September 2, 2004 02:59:20 PM
IP: 207.65.59.149

Hello Again, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

-Gantros
Gantros
Thursday, September 2, 2004 02:56:41 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Kristina>I had to unlock the feature in my DVD player too and it worked great. Just read the directions carefully, get a feel for the remote, and don't rush it. Practice while it's off. And I'm sure you can reset it. Probably unplug it for a while and it should reset. Mine did.

matt>She means "region code". That's the little globe on the back of your DVD case that says 1,2,3, etc. 1 is USA. 2 is Europe. I think 3 is Asia. Not sure how many other numbers. When you buy a DVD player from say WalMart or Best Buy, the player also has the same symbol. So to play DVDs from other countries, you have to get an all region DVD player. Otherwise USA DVD players don't recognize a European DVD.
Siren
Thursday, September 2, 2004 02:53:36 PM
IP: 65.33.115.88

Kristina: UCF has one you could hook up with. But it's a drive.

The Green: One of my favorites. I always figured that Jackal's "last upgrade" was part of his pay from Cyberbiotics. And I liked Jackal's little fantasy there.
But I have to wonder, how did Jackal and Hyena ever get hooked up with Cyberbiotics?
That and how the heck did Hyena manage to get on an airplane looking like 'that'. The guys with the wands would have a field day with her.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Thursday, September 2, 2004 02:31:37 PM
IP: 64.192.75.23

in a simple explanation, could someone explain this "area code" thing to me?
matt
Thursday, September 2, 2004 01:04:53 PM
IP: 68.90.74.136

Siren> Well... I found a description to turn my DVD player regioncode-free (or at least make him ignore the code) - but I dunno if I trust that. It OUGHT to be fine... but if it locks, it'll lock in the WRONG area.... we'll see - I might have to buy another DVD with an area code other than 1 or 2, and then play the 'switching' game...... Still - there's NO reason for Disney to put the Gargoyles DVD on Areacode at ALL - not after how they explain the reason to HAVE area codes..... *sighs*

Still - I WILL buy a DVD, come what may. Even if I convert it, I'll have a legally obtained DVD, so I ought to be fine ;)
Guandalug la'Fay
Thursday, September 2, 2004 12:01:56 PM
IP: 134.147.82.247

Mayan Clan/ Sun Amulet> ahhh, the Mayan Clan, always been my favorite Clan. i know Greg has always said that Zafiro would come to NY to get the Amulet, but doesn't it make more sense if Jade and Turquesa would end up in New York on their way back from Avalon? how would the Mayan Clan find out that the Amulet is New York, and how would Zafiro get there? and would Zafiro really leave Obsidiana in Guatamala alone or have Jade and Turquesa returned at that point? even if they have returned, isn't it weird that the Clan leader would leave the Clan like that? maybe my questions would be satisfactorily answered if the episode was made, but for now, is always made me wonder.
i've always been interested in seeing what a member of the Mayan Clan would have to say about the extreme urbanization of New York and in finding out about Jade and Turquesa's World Tour... not to mention discovering more about the raiders that destroyed their Clan. i guess i would just really love to see the Mayan Clan developed more.
matt
Thursday, September 2, 2004 11:25:12 AM
IP: 68.90.74.136

Guandalug la'Fay>Just buy yourself an "all region DVD player" or they also call it, "region free DVD player". Best Buy doesn't sell it, not that I've ever seen. But the internet has them all over for under $100. Click my name to find the one I got for $89.95.
I had to buy one a few years ago because I bought Last Unicorn DVD from Germany and Plague Dogs from England. It works great and plays every DVD I put in there.

Siren
Thursday, September 2, 2004 09:38:15 AM
IP: 65.33.115.88

Patrick, actually Gargoyles-fans.de does have a rather nice one of Elisa as Salli (without the wig) on page 3 of 6.

Siryn, I hate to bug you by constantly bringing this up, but it's been almost a month since The Gathering and I still haven't received my Program and I still check my mailbox each day just in case.
Matt Fews
Thursday, September 2, 2004 08:23:29 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

*walks in, grumbles*
Looks like Disney made the DVD Areacode 1 only.....

*sighs* That's USELESS for me. I won't risk my DVD player locking in the wrong Areacode.... looks like I've to take slightly..... less than legal means to ensure I can watch Gargs. Yes, I'll most likely _buy_ a DVD.... and afterwards have to rip it apart and put it on multiple CDs that don't have an areacode lock on 'em. And I most likely will loose a few special features from the DVD.... all that just because they couldn't make this DVD Areacode-free (at least if Amazon's CD info is correct). And I doubt there'll be a non-US version of the DVD..... (yes, I wrote the Disney DVD section about this, and I didn't get an answer yet).....

*walks out, still grumbling*
Guandalug la'Fay
Thursday, September 2, 2004 07:25:29 AM
IP: 134.147.82.247

DPH - Actually, the gender's wrong for all three of them (Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva alike), so I suppose that the similarity between their domains and the Weird Sisters' is just a coincidence.

MARTIN - According to Greg, the gargs still had the Mayan Sun Amulet when the clock tower was blown up, but it managed to survive the destruction. There was going to be an episode in Season Three (if Greg Weisman had stayed on board) when Zafiro would go to New York to recover the amulet, in fact.

(Zafiro must have really impressed Greg, given that a namesake descendant of his was due to be a regular in "Gargoyles 2198".)

I still can't help wondering sometimes just how strong the museum's claim to the Mayan Sun Amulet really was, since it had been stolen from the pyramid by the poachers (who were presumably planning to sell it on the black market) as opposed to being obtained from a legitimate archaeological party. Too bad that Greg never managed to do anything more with the amulet; we could have gotten a story exploring (in part) the issue of museums dealing with the fact of many of their exhibits having been stolen from their original sites by treasure hunters and the question of how legitimate a claim they have to those same artifacts on display.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, September 2, 2004 07:17:54 AM
IP: 63.186.0.144

Another day, another dollar.

Does anyone know where I might find some screenshots from "Turf"? In particular, a good close-up pic of Elisa as Salli in that blue dress? I've tried gargoyles-fans.de but had no luck.

96 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Thursday, September 2, 2004 06:53:08 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Hello Again, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

-Gantros
Gantros
Thursday, September 2, 2004 01:24:29 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Kristina> YOu are only buying ONE copy for yourself??? :)

Todd> When Jackle make reference to his latest upgarde, I personally think that they keep on getting new additions... like the water-proof sealant. Jackel 2.0, 2.0.1, etc., like Coyote.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaThursday, September 2, 2004 12:32:01 AM
IP: 142.59.132.116

Good morning everyone,

I normally lurk in here, I prefer to post in the TGS CR.
But Todd's rumble on The Green brought me over here this morning.

One thought about the The Green I had ever since I saw Hunter's Moon. At the end Broadway kept the sun amulet, but did they still had it when the hunters blew up the clock tower?
This would be indeed very bad for the Maya clan. Perhaps they gave it back to the museum. But on the other hand they kept the Eye of Odin, the Grimorum and the Phoenix Gate until the weird sisters took them.

Another thing, has anyone a summary of the Bio Discussion from the Gathering, course I weren't able to attend this year.

I have to be at work in 20 minutes, so I have to go. See you all someday.
Martin M
Fulda, Hessen, Germany
Thursday, September 2, 2004 12:11:51 AM
IP: 217.226.164.56

Kristina>If you are talking about the Sepetember 2004 issue of Wizard, there was no Gargoyles picture. Not even a word of it. I've looked the book inside and out and can't find it. But if someone does find it, give me the page number, because I am 99.9% sure its not in the Sept issue. Maybe it was the August issue
Siren
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 10:59:50 PM
IP: 65.33.115.88

*waves hi to everyone* I can't wait for the dvd. Im going to buy at least 6 copies for friends and 1 more for myself of course.^_^ On another forum someone said that the newest issue of Wizard's magazine had pictures of what the dvd set cover would look like so thats what Im buying tommorrow. I've loved this show since I was 11 yrs old and its still awesome. Too bad I dont have toon disney to watch it on a regular basis. Im usually working at walmart when ABC Family has it on. That's why I have grandma tape it. ^_^ They better show Hunter's Moon Part 3 or I'll cry. *Ponders if USF has more Gargoyles fans she can hook up with*
Kristina
FL
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 10:23:59 PM
IP: 68.202.46.219

lol, I feel like I'm being attacked by a pair of angry parents after slighting their baby. I apologize if I unintentionally belittled your con, Patrick and Crzy, for that wasn't my intent (and I really did enjoy G2001). Anyways, my numbers simply come from the G2001 booklet. Attendance was printed on the last few pages. As I recall (I'm still at work so I can't verify this yet), there was one page with three columns of 49 names each (= 147), then one column on the next page with 48 names ( = 195 total). Then there were two more columns, a little shorter, for supporting memberships. Granted, maybe there were a lot of last minute arrivals that didn't make it into the booklet, but then maybe the number 350 which has been thrown around is actually the sum of the attendees and the "in spirit" attendees. That was my assumption, and I apologize if I was in error, though I am truly pleased if I was wrong. I don't like reporting low numbers any more than you do.
Vashkoda
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 09:05:56 PM
IP: 129.98.31.102

Patrick - I dont know where that bunch of bull came from ... but someone was WAY dreaming on those small numbers. Glad you cleared that up for us. :)
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson - [crzydemona@gmail.com]
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 08:09:52 PM
IP: 216.249.97.16

Incidentally, Vash... I would be VERY interested to know where you got that bad information you posted. You can e-mail me privately if you don't want to embarrass anyone here in the comment room. Thanks.
Patrick - [puck@artchicks.org]
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 08:09:31 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Siryn>Your welcome :)
Siren
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 07:23:38 PM
IP: 65.33.115.88

As the Gathering 2001 staff member who documented the registration, allow me to correct a GROSS misstatement:

<< Lynati> Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I think the reason the G2000 vs G2001 numbers seem a bit off is that G2001 didn't actually have 350 people-or-so attending. That number adds on a hundred-or-so "in spirit" attendees (thanks to Lexy's efforts). So if their actual attendance was about equal, it's very possible that G2000 did have around 200 attendees. >>

I am sorry, but this information is totally bogus. There were almost 375 people who physically attended the Gathering 2001. That includes the con staff, the guests, dealers, pre-registered members, and walk-ins. It does NOT include pre-registered members who were "no-shows" or the supporting members. That is 375 live bodies who walked through the doors of the Sheraton Universal to participate in the convention.

Lexy DID recruit most of of supporting members, but the total number of supporting members was only about 35.
Patrick
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 07:21:41 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Todd - I think I spotted a potential appearance of the Wierd Sisters: Brahman, Shiva, and Vishnu. Brahman represents creation, Shiva representations destruction (aka potentially vengence), and Vishnu represents balance (aka Fate). Of course, the gender is wrong for Vishnu. Who knew that World History I and World Literature I would be such usefull classes for gargoyle fans?
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 07:08:53 PM
IP: 67.14.195.47

Watched my tape of "The Green" this afternoon. The episode that brings in the Mayan clan, and Jackal and Hyena's final appearance in Season Two (and final appearance in "Gargoyles" if you don't count the Goliath Chronicles as canon). Not to mention a look at things back in New York, with Broadway, Lexington, and Officer Morgan.

This episode makes it clear that the big difference between Jackal and Hyena is wits: Jackal's much more clever than his sister. Hyena simply plows into fights; Jackal actually comes up with strategies. The obvious case here is in his deciding to simply have the Mayan Sun Amulet destroyed so that he can smash the Mayan gargs in the daytime, so much simpler than fighting them while they're awake. (Though he winds up having to do the latter anyway when Vogel displays his own ingeniousness in telling Jackal that any damage that the gargoyles do Cyberbiotics' rain forest operation is coming out of Jackal's paycheck!) In the first fight, Jackal shows his tone of "intelligent fighting" when he advises Hyena not to get rid of Obsidiana and Zafiro right away; they need to find out first (presumably by interrogating them) how many other gargoyles there are in the rain forest.

(And he shows again just how creepy he is in his little daydream of giving Goliath a makeover, probably one of the most disturbing moments in "Gargoyles".)

One line (or exchange) that I noticed this time around; when Hyena's fighting Broadway and Lex, she asks them, "Didn't your mama ever teach you boys to take a hint?", to which Broadway replies, "Leave our mothers out of this!" The shift of singular to plural where "mother" is concerned leads me to wondering whether this is a subtle reminder from Broadway (and the production team) about the custom of "all the adult female gargoyles are a hatchling's mother" - which, obviously, Hyena wouldn't be aware of. But then again, I may be overanalyzing these lines.

The Mayan gargoyles mention how the Mayan Sun Amulet keeps the sun from turning them to stone; again, an inaccurate description of stone sleep, since it's the biological clock and not the sun which turns gargoyles to stone. But then again, the Mayan sorcerer who made the amulet and the modern-day Mayan gargoyles might not be aware of that.

One minor side-question: Jackal is explaining to Vogel about how his and Hyena's latest upgrade included a waterproof sealant to their armor. I wonder whether the upgrade that he's talking about is the one that we saw in "Upgrade", or a new upgrade that took place between "Upgrade" and "The Green"; it might be worth asking Greg at some later date when the queue opens again.

I wonder if Greg now regrets showing the bit where Broadway has trouble squeezing through the hole in the museum roof.

Hyena gets off a sort of "Casablanca" parody in her "All the museums of the world" line, and Jackal does his take-off on the famous philosophical puzzler of "If a tree falls in the forest and nobody's around, does it make a sound?"
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 06:48:44 PM
IP: 63.186.1.216

ack...

if the link I just gave doesn't work, copy and past this into your broswer.

http://www.cameraslens.com/misc/Postcardsmall.jpg

Sorry, I've had soo many direct linkers on my FF fansite lately I've had to go to extreme measures. ^_^;;;
Siryn
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 06:28:59 PM
IP: 68.54.148.183

Siren> Yeah I noticed! Thankyou very much. ^_^;; I fixed it this morning.

Working on G2005 flyers..will post URL when done. O.o;;;
Siryn - [<--promotional Gathering postcard I'm working on]
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 06:27:08 PM
IP: 68.54.148.183

William Maune> Actully there where box sets at comic con
www.comic-con.org. If anyone wants to see some pictures of it ask me. I was at the raffle.some lucky people won them in auctions. Of course it was just the gargoyles dvd season one in a kewl looking collectors box with something else in it. So they must be planing on releasing the whole series.

Lord sloth> They where actully postcards that you could mail to people. I got a bunch of them from the disney booth. I'd be happy to give you some.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 06:06:49 PM
IP: 209.179.250.68

Gore> Fair enough. Just thought it might have been a typo of friend. I make that one all the time.
Aaron
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 05:10:58 PM
IP: 66.139.49.253

Gathering Journals: I'll still take them in via e-mail. Send an e-mail to: journals@s8.org and I'll add them to the queue as I have time.

And to those of you who haven't gotten their journals off, what's taking so long?! You've had a month! The longer you wait the more fuzzy your memory will get. Do it now!

I wonder how many journals we'd have by now if there hadn't been a deadline in place.

Aaron: "Gargoyles FiendSite" is very much intentional. Once I take the time to do so, this whole site will be moved into the layout you see on Ask Greg. Along with the new layout will come a new name, because we already have a Gargoyles fan site. Fiend has a nice double-meaning (check the dictionary) that works well, I thought.
Gorebash - [journals@s8.org]
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 02:42:31 PM
IP: 192.207.57.10

Well, didn't get to finish Sunday and Monday after all. But I would like to share something I thought was pretty cool. Sunday my friend and I ate lunch at the hotel restaurant, and who should they seat us next to but the DVD crew! I don't know if the crew realized we were con attendees, so I decided not to give myself away and instead listened for any interesting comments about the con. They didn't say much, and I figured they really weren't that into it; that they had come here to do a job and that was it. But as they were leaving, carrying their cameras and equipment, a table with two women and some kids stopped them to ask if they were filming a documentary. The camera crew said no, they were filming the convention, and then proceeded to ask, "Do you like Gargoyles? The show?" One woman's reply was, "I love Gargoyles!", and the camera man enthusiastically told her, "Well then, you should go to the convention!"

Heh, guess we converted them after all. ;)

Lynati> Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I think the reason the G2000 vs G2001 numbers seem a bit off is that G2001 didn't actually have 350 people-or-so attending. That number adds on a hundred-or-so "in spirit" attendees (thanks to Lexy's efforts). So if their actual attendance was about equal, it's very possible that G2000 did have around 200 attendees.

DPH> I'm not going to go through the toruble of searching the queue, but I can say with certainty that the number of G2003 con journals posted on personal websites (just by counting the links I have) was a mere 11. So this is quite an improvement.
Vashkoda
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 02:27:03 PM
IP: 129.98.125.57

Hello Again, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

-Gantros
Gantros
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 02:20:49 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

I just picked up Wizard Sept 2004 edition (has Wolverine on the cover, not that 90% of Wizard's don't have him on the cover ;)

No Gargs. I looked that book inside and out. Perhaps it was in last months.
Siren
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 01:54:14 PM
IP: 65.33.115.88

According to someone posting at the Toon Zone Forums, there are pictures of the Gargoyles box set in the latest edition of Wizard magazine.
William C. Maune - [wcm1db@mizzou.edu]
Columbia, Missouri, USA
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 09:31:47 AM
IP: 128.206.241.186

Yes, anyone who still hasn't posted a Gathering Diary should still do so! CrzyDemona and I have been discussing the possibility of making all the Gathering Diaries available on the Gathering web site, along with as much other historical information about the first eight conventions as can be tracked down. So keep writing those con journals!

97 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!
Patrick
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 06:49:12 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

controls = con reports.

yeesh. I don't even want to know how I managed a typo like that...
Lynati
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 05:49:03 AM
IP: 4.139.18.187

So, the AG queue closed with the con reports/blurbs of 55 people, with the addition of at least three (Mandolin, Aaron, and Mara) dropping a line to say their controls were still in progress. That's about a third of the con attendees.

I barely got mine up, and it came to ten pages...I'm almost afraid to suggest that people who finished their reports after the queue went down should go ahead and post them here...
Lynati
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 05:48:07 AM
IP: 4.139.18.187

Typo...NOT live action...but feature film.
Siren
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 03:10:14 AM
IP: 65.33.115.88

DVDToons has a poll about what cartoon series from Disney should be made into a live action movie. Unfortunatly, they left out Gargoyles. Maybe if we get enough people who post Gargoyles, they'll redo the poll. Click my name to add your comments.


(Sheesh, they added Bonkers to be made live action but not Gargoyles? What were they thinking?)
Siren
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 03:09:23 AM
IP: 65.33.115.88

Guess I was too slow after all... Sigh.

BTW, Gore, you are aware the header on Ask Greg says that it's a part of the "Gargoyles FiendSite" right?

(If it's supposed to read like that, just ignore me. It's late, and we are sort of fiends for gargoyles, I suppose)



Aaron - [JCarnage@yahoo.com]
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 03:00:05 AM
IP: 172.131.39.76

I still say there should be a wholly separate queue, just for con journals and episode rambles, that any questions are summarily deleted from. (and I don't mean anything that contains a question, sometimes rambles include them, I mean anything that is obviosuly out of place.)
Lynati
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 02:13:06 AM
IP: 4.139.18.156

I was going to ask about you having the possibility of having a way of Greg Weisman opening up the submission button for a 1, 2, or 3 days after he posts an episode ramble to get a quick window of opportunity for people to send in their own episode rambles and the submission button promptly being disabled after the window of opporunity passes.
DPH
AR, USA
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 01:04:37 AM
IP: 67.14.195.22

Ugh. I should be in bed.

The shutdown is midnight Pacific. I've already tossed code into the thing to automate the shutdown. If it doesn't work, hey, you'll get a few more hours until I close it in the morning.

I chose Pacific because it was a cheap way to excuse a few more hours before it shut down.
Gorebash
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 12:43:02 AM
IP: 68.239.41.39

<ENTER LORD SLOTH>

Wow, quite a few "just under the clock" journal submissions, though it looks like Gorebash is delaying the shut down a bit to give us stragglers a few minutes leeway. Thanks Eric, mighty decent of you, even if all that racing the clock suspense was for naught.
But now I'm curious about how long this is lasting for. See, my journal is up now to, but it is a tad less then complete; so I'm wondering (along with Vash) if it's worth it to rush the remaining chunk in and how much rush will be involved. Most here have said that the main thing is that at least SOMETHING gets in. At any rate, If I don't post the rest tonight/today, I'll still write it all in the next few days while it is still mostly fresh in me cranium.
BTW, I had a great time Gathering if you hadn't heard, as I haven't posted at all since I returned. Twas great to see you all and hope your journey back was clean and safe.

Shara> sorry, I'm a little behind the times, but I assume those "promo postcards" are essentially fliers we can post everywhere to advertise the DVDs? In which case I should probably get a bunch to post around my college when I go there (I assume I'm the only one here going to Sheridan??). So anyway, I probably wont know my mailbox # till at least a week from now.
Don't mean to sound dubious, just want to be sure I'm up to date on everything I may have missed, and I want to be involved in whatever is being done to spread the word.
...Spread the word...
....... spread the word.........

<EXIT LORD SLOTH>
Lord Sloth - [nibor_niwri@hotmail.com]
Kingston, ON, Canada
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 12:39:24 AM
IP: 199.246.2.11

Hm, just barely made it in before 12 EST. I see the request post is gone from the top of the CR, but I think the question submission function is still active. Was it midnight EST or PST? Just wondering if I'll be able to fit in Sunday and Monday after all.
Vash
Wednesday, September 1, 2004 12:24:09 AM
IP: 129.98.125.57

Well I finally posted my Gathering Journal. And I even had a full hour and a half before the deadline. And they say procrastination doesn't work.
But in honesty, I did nearly miss it. My internet connection died last night just when I started to type it out. Had to use the public terminals at my university instead.

Todd: With Odin really having lost his eye as in the myth, one must wonder who Mimir was in the gargoyles universe.
CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:42:46 PM
IP: 132.170.209.101

Is anyone going to DragonCon in Atlanta this weekend? If so, email me kapogge@yahoo.com. Thanks!
kathy
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 07:38:41 PM
IP: 66.82.9.44

One good thing about the queue closing due tonight - the queue has now grown to over 700 questions (the fact that Greg's been either at the Gathering or on family vacations for most of the month has meant that he has been able to answer only a few questions all this while).

Saw my tape of "The New Olympians" today. A few thoughts on it.

Elisa showed her usual good perception skills (of course she'd have to have them, being a detective) in realizing that the gargoyle who'd broken her out was Proteus rather than Goliath. The two biggies, obviously, were the fact that Proteus wasn't turning to stone in the daytime (evidently his shape-shifting qualities don't give him the biological traits of the species that he disguises himself as) and his wanting to exact a very bloody vengeance upon the New Olympians (Goliath would indeed be angry about people mistreating Elisa, but not to the point of blowing up the entire island - that's more Demona's style). Proteus's "Who is that guy?" line obviously didn't help matters much either; we know that Goliath doesn't talk like that.

(I've probably said this before, but Proteus really should have put a bit more thought into his cover story about why he wasn't turning into stone in the daytime when he was pretending to be Goliath. His claim was that the cloaking device was altering the sun's rays, but of course, sunlight doesn't have anything to do with stone sleep; what causes gargoyles to turn into stone in the daytime is their biological clock.)

If you look closely at the big shot of New Olympus as seen from the skiff, you can see a "Devil's Tower" type mountain in the background, off to the right. I wonder if that could be Mount Thanatos, the home of the local gargoyles according to Greg.

You can also, in the scene where Helios is deliberately coughing and retching in front of Elisa, spot a woman in the background to his right with a certain "Artemis/Diana" look about her (dressed in pale blue and carrying a bow).

Ekidne acts as if she's channeling Demona with her cries of "Treacherous human" and her eyes glowing red. (I still sometimes wonder what Demona would have thought had she been able to see the New Olympians tormenting Elisa.)

Helios and Kiron's participation in the riot is particularly disgraceful; they're members of the police on New Olympus, so they should be keeping the peace, not disrupting it. At least Taurus dispersed the rioters.

One piece of dialogue that I really get a kick out of:

Elisa grabs hold of Helios and pulls him off his flying car.

ELISA: Proteus disguised himself as Goliath and is planning to blow up the island!

HELIOS: You had to drag me over here to tell me that?

ELISA: Would you have listened if I'd just called out to you?

HELIOS: Frankly, no!

Followed by a fight in which Elisa sends Helios flying into the lamppost in one of her biggest martial feats in the entire series....

I get a kick, also, out of Taurus at the end saying that Elisa is not "like the humans of legend" - I find it amusing since the initial humans that drove the New Olympians to New Olympus, i.e., the heroes of Greek mythology such as Theseus, are now themselves just as legendary to us as are minotaurs, centaurs, and the rest of the critters of Greek myth.

Proteus, when waving to Taurus from his cell, makes his hand grow extra large. The guy really likes being a shape-shifter.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 07:11:11 PM
IP: 63.186.0.11

Jonathan: Technically, Goliath didn't really beat Odin. He came close to it, but Elisa and Angela stopped him before he could do any more damage. It was more of a "stalemate".
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 05:41:24 PM
IP: 207.65.59.129

OMG! Last day!! Con journals!! Hurry!! HURRY!!! Post anything!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! kthxbye!
IRC Goliath
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 05:20:48 PM
IP: 209.234.142.80

Hello Again, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

-Gantros
Gantros
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 04:10:10 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Anyone who wanted the gargoyles DVD promo postcars I've send your packages out today. They should be arriving soon.

Anyone who still wants a card let me know I'll do another mail out in a few weeks.
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 02:52:14 PM
IP: 209.179.198.44

Does anybody know how many people posted Gathering 2003 diaries? I'm just curious about comparing the number from last year to this year to see how much improvement there is.
DPH
AR, USA
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 02:32:18 PM
IP: 67.14.195.37

Hi All!

Long Time, no post from me - at least 18 months since I last posted here. oops. <does dance of Abject Apology> :)

Patrick: I don't think anyone mentioned the exact height of the Eyrie Building. A shame because I would have liked to see more of it. Deyan Sudjic's book 'The 100 Mile City' mentions that Mayor Ed Koch attempted to have the world's tallest skyscraper built in New York in 1988 - and that one would have topped out at 130 stories which, I guess, is as good a height as any for the Eyrie Building. Call it 135, including Castle.
Being finshed in 1994 would have been just about right after the first round of legal challenges and protesters were done, too.
As for the Sky City... well, I'd have to put that one down as wishful thinking. It's been talked about since 1989, and no-one's really taken any interest in it, the Tokyo property boom has crashed. Nope, that one's deader than the Sydney needle.
Side note: The designers of the Sydney Needle (a 1km/ 3,000ft tall Building planned for Sydney, Australia) shouldn't bleat over the lack of interest in building their creation - even an idiot would have realised that proposing to build such a high building in the week following 9/11 was a BAD idea...

Battle Beast: I think that Goliath with the Eye could have wielded Mjolnir. He beat Odin. How much harder could it be?

Ahhh!! work calls

Goodnight All!
Jonathan
NEW ZEALANDTuesday, August 31, 2004 02:13:15 PM
IP: 203.96.205.100

Thanks D. Taina! I re-copied my report into the form there. :)
Jeffrey Allan Boman - [croft@bigfoot.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 12:32:31 PM
IP: 24.37.95.22

Jeffrey Allan Boman: No, you post them on Ask Greg. Click my name or copy and paste this link to the address bar:

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/ask.php
D. Taina
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:24:17 AM
IP: 172.160.119.232

Just to make sure: we post our journals here in the Comment Room, right? If not, please point me to the right place on the site.
Jeffrey Allan Boman - [croft@bigfoot.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:37:22 AM
IP: 24.37.95.22

Only have time this morning for a drive-by countdown...

98 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!

1 day left (today) to get your Gathering Diaries posted to Ask Greg!
Patrick - [<-- please post Gathering Diaries to Ask Greg before midnight!]
Tuesday, August 31, 2004 06:51:30 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

THOR> That gets me thinking... would Goliath, wearing the Eye, be able to lift Mjolnir? No human can, but can a mortal with superhuman powers do it?

99 D-V-Ds to watch, 99 D-V-Ds. Watch one a-day, next thing you say, 98 dvds to watch before Gargoyles Season one comes out on December 7th!

That is all I will say.
Battle Beast
CanadaTuesday, August 31, 2004 12:20:39 AM
IP: 142.59.132.116

DAY 3

I spent most of the day in the Dealer's Room with Emru & Tamu. The only panel I wanted to attend the most for the day would be there anyway.

10 AM'ish Mug-a guest w/ Keith David

There were a lot of people seated to wait for him... I told him how he was one degree of separation from Brigit for me. He said he may say hi to her for me, but I won't hold him to it. Unless he recalls my name, I don't expect him to remember me.

His speech turned into a long diatribe on how soldiers can't easily adjust to regular life after war, but once he began talking about his career, it was gold.

One thing that stood out: he listed Gargoyles as an animated series, not a cartoon. As he said, cartoons are now things aimed at kids (in North America, granted), whereas the series was far more sophisticated. This was very apt to many of us.

Before he arrived I passed through the art show, as it would be taken down soon after. There were some very talented artists shown... of course the primary subjects were characters from the show.

After Keith's speech, Emru had a prize drawing. He'd got folks on an fps mailing list for a chance at a prize. I won one of them: a CD of music inspired by anime. I didn't win the grand prize (a season 3 DVD set for Family Guy), but I may get it anyway... Em will try to get me all 3 seasons to do a series overview.

2 PM Closing Ceremonies

This started with another speech from the 2005 Con Chair (Vegas: I can dream...) then a long string of awards for folks in the art show. Then we got the winners of the Clan Olympics. They spotlighted the lady who had the first pre-registration to this convention. She came from Australia - wow!

I unfortunately had to miss Keith David's final words as I had to get my Transport home.

Conclusions

I had fun at this convention. It had a smaller set of panels, only two guests - but the fact that it was on a focused theme, that I knew quite a few folks there, that everyone was friendly... it was definitely worth the time and effort.

I'm counting the days now until the DVD comes out, and I'm hoping to get to the 2006 Gathering - the 10th anniversary!
Jeffrey Allan Boman - [croft@bigfoot.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Monday, August 30, 2004 08:48:07 PM
IP: 24.37.95.22

Day 2

I grabbed some eats at a hotel snack shop. The hotel restaurant was too pricey, and breakfast was a buffet. Without someone else to carry my plate, I wouldn't be able to carry it.

10 AM Thrill of the Chase

This was my "Writer Panel" of the weekend. :) The panelists mostly were awake. One of them showed the effects of too much partying Friday night, not enough sleep.

The topic was, as the name implies, chase scenes. They spoke of the challenges to write a good one, of how a chase may have nothing to do with action, and how even Gargoyles had a show-long chase (Eliza Maza and Goliath). It was a very interesting panel.

Next was a convention lunch break. I spent it in the dealer's room. I haven't outgrown my D-R Liaison roots... the room had many more dealers, as often happens at smaller cons; dealers will save money by only being there for the longest day.

I had a neat surprise there: Emru & Tamu Townsend were both there for fps! I hung with them for most of the rest of the convention to talk shop, to share memories of my University days with Emru, etc (I just realized: he makes another APA link too!). They had past issues of the print magazine for sale and display. I was actually in more of them than I remembered: counting my online review, I actually have 5 to my credit, not 3 (two were in one issue that I own but haven't seen in many years). Counting my mini report for this con, I'll be up to 6 pieces so far.

12:30 PM Mug-a-guest : Greg Weisman

Several of us asked about a lot of things. I asked about Greg's dealings with voice actress Brigit Bako (I explain in the sidebar) and the seeming non-finish of the Avalon storyline (actually it was the World Tour. I had the wrong name). Others asked about different story points, Greg's opinion on current Disney 'toons (opinions cut to avoid hurting Greg if they come out wrong). It was an interesting panel.

Emru went aside with Greg to interview him for the magazine, and I spent the time chatting with Tamu. Afterward I had lunch w/Em. We went a short enough walk into downtown, but it was enough to leave me wiped out. We took a small cab ride back to the convention; I wanted to pay for it, but Emru did - it was his chance to expense something to the magazine. :) We came back to:

3:30'ish PM Radio play

This was Greg's final episode of the show, read by attendees. There were differences from how the show originally aired; not a surprise, since Greg wasn't the series editor by then. Unfortunately Keith David was delayed due to a film shoot, otherwise he intended to be there to read the Goliath part. Rob St-Martin, the convention Vice Chair, read it instead. It was a fun piece. Emru made a joke about the Auditorium we sat in; it was as if we were back in school!

Rob St-Martin added to the NaNoWriMo reunion of the weekend: he, Karine and the smaller Mark all ran things, while the taller Mark (I don't know his last name. Mike might) was there, and Chris Taras (who ran our NaNo-group) ran the Auction. It was very successful from what I hear.

I couldn't afford the Banquet too, and I missed both it and the Masquerade - but I still reserved my evening Transport after those events. I ended up eating supper at hotel restaurant. I tried the con suite after, but it was closed for those events as well. Fortunately I only had a 30-minute wait for Transportation after though. That's far better than a 2-hour wait!

I almost forgot: I saw our friend Kriquor at the Radio play. I saw his name on the pre-reg list, and guessed he'd be there as David Xanathos, but this was my first chance to see him. He's another friend now living in Toronto, sadly. :(

I did see one of the folks in hall costume (or for the Masquerade) outside of the Radio Play too. I wish I'd had my camera ready, because it was breathtaking.

Jeffrey Allan Boman - [croft@bigfoot.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Monday, August 30, 2004 08:46:04 PM
IP: 24.37.95.22

Here come my Gathering diary, in 3 parts!

Gathering of Gargoyles
August 6th - 8th
Delta Hotel, Montreal

First I have to point out: in terms of my attendance experience, this was a small convention. All conventions seem small after WorldCon, but at approximately 180 attendees, this one was a little larger than Primedia in 1999.

The big difference is: I had fun at this one.

I think it helped that this had a much more specific focus: PriMedia was for fans of all television media; this convention was solely for fans of Gargoyles, the most rich and fascinating animated show to come from Disney. As a result, we all had something in common.

It also helped that the convention was kept to 6 rooms spread over 3 small floors; PriMedia was all over a few long, empty floors of a hotel, helping it to feel like a ghost town.

Day One

I started the convention with a chuckle: when I filled out my registration form, I put my BBS alias (Thoth) in the nickname section.

When I got my registration badge, I learned it was the ONLY name listed! I don't think many there would recognize me from the name alone, but it still made for a funny thing.

I was amazed at how young most of the fans were: folks in their late teens or early 20s. The show really touched fans all over the age spectrum.

The 1st panel Friday I attended was called Perspective at 1 PM. I thought it might actually be about the show. At first I wondered if I was in the wrong room, as I was the only person there. Turned out the con chair who was hosting it was just running a little behind.

The panel was actually about drawing in perspective, something I learned in school. I stayed in case the panel speaker (the con chair Karine) needed some help. That was a bit of arrogance on my part: she's actually a working animator; I'm not.

This was the only drawing panel I attended during the con... since I can no longer draw that would just seem pointless.

We began learning just how quickly the hotel staff worked to please us: first, the a/c made the hotel feel chilly. That was fixed up quickly. Also: the speakers were blasting 'muzak' in all the rooms, making it hard to hear panelists. That too was fixed immediately.

I visited the con suite next. They didn't have snacks out yet, but the room was quite nice, and I got to enjoy some of the classic shows on tape. I'd forgotten about some of the episodes, like the one that introduced the Golem of Prague!

3 PM: RPG panel

The speakers were longtime gamers, owned a store in Seattle, and the wife was a published author. They relayed some fun "war stories" of their past games. This is something I never grow tired of.

Bringing the panel back to the reason for the con I asked what game they thought best to play Gargoyles. They mentioned how Steve Jackson has the write-ups (they were massive GURPS gamers), but can't publish them. Disney won't let anyone make money off their IP (even if they don't try) so I suspect legal reasons.

5 PM: Opening Ceremonies

This was attended by the most people I'd seen to date at the convention. Not surprising, since it was attended by one of the guests Greg Weisman (series creator and producer). ?

The Ceremonies were 'interrupted' by the first event of the Clan Olympics, a Gargoyles-themed version of the Color Wars we'd held in summer camp. The difference was again that these were fun. I got to hold one end of a dividing line rope for the first event.

Greg played an audio tape of some actors from the show expressing their apologies that they couldn't attend. The audience got very lively when Ed Asner spoke!

The Con Chair for next year had a speech. The con holds an Olympics-style city choice every year; Las Vegas won for next year. That's not a con I can afford along with Westercon. Two trips in less than a month would be too much.

Because of the Clan Olympics I had to leave before the end for Transport, so I missed some of Greg's speech. At least I was there for the most important part: the first 5 episodes (season one they call it) will be released on DVD on December 7th. Mark your calendar and get many folks to buy it, so that we can send the message to Disney that the series can be profitable. DVD sales are the reason Family Guy will be coming back next season. Maybe this could do the same thing for Gargoyles!

Jeffrey Allan Boman - [croft@bigfoot.com]
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Monday, August 30, 2004 08:42:00 PM
IP: 24.37.95.22

Incidentally, the gargoyles' encounter with Odin makes me wonder how they would have responded if they ever came into contact with Thor. I've probably said this before (a few years ago), but their response to Thor ought to have been interesting; on the one hand, Thor was a protector-figure, like them, but on the other hand, the fact that his favorite weapon happens to be a hammer.... (And it'd be even worse if they were to meet him after the formation of the Quarrymen.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, August 30, 2004 08:33:24 PM
IP: 63.186.0.94

Gantros> It's not a movie poster. It was a poster Disney made to advertise season 2's release to television. The bottom normally reads, "All New Adventures Weekdays, check local TV listings for time and channel".
Vash
Monday, August 30, 2004 06:12:45 PM
IP: 129.98.125.57

I found what looks like a Movie poster for a live-action Gargoyles movie on the Toon Disney website. It's probably a concept for the Miramax film that never took shape.

http://psc.disney.go.com/abcnetworks/toondisney/printables/gargoyles/posters/gargoyles.JPG
Gantros
Monday, August 30, 2004 03:59:22 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

People... Gathering Journals... NOW!

Post something... ANYTHING

Even if it's just bullets of "I did this, this, this, and this" hell, even if it's "I had fun, Montreal was awesome!" Just DO IT :D
IRC Goliath
Monday, August 30, 2004 03:42:37 PM
IP: 209.234.142.80

Hello Again, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

-Gantros
Gantros
Monday, August 30, 2004 03:41:12 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

hi all this is a fun site and demona rules
Lexx - [ares_woman@yahoo.com]
hanover park, il, usa
Monday, August 30, 2004 03:07:17 PM
IP: 65.79.1.34

I just wanted to repost this in case anyone missed it.

I noticed there is a bit of confusion with putting up the Amazon.com Gargoyles DVD link on a few webpages.
Amazon.com has the series listed in TWO seperate pages. They have one that simply lists Gargoyles (1994) and mentions the DVD is not available yet, no release date, and to add your email so they can send you one when they do get a release date. Then there's the OTHER Amazon.com Gargoyles link that actually mentions the release date, Season 1, 2 discs, and price. Check your link to see which one it is. Click my name for the correct link so you can change you banners and links accordingly.

Siryn>Your MGC site links to the wrong Amazon.com site.
Siren
Monday, August 30, 2004 02:45:33 PM
IP: 65.33.115.88

It still amuses me that both times I tried to record "Eye of the Storm," there was a "winter weather advisory" posted at the bottom of the screen by the local station that carried the Disney Afternoon.

It must have been sub-zero weather in Norway, too. Elisa's red bomber jacket was plenty warm enough for her in the first season episodes where it was snowing.

To veer off on a totally unrelated tangent...

Is this the future of high-rise construction, or just a bunch of wishful thinking? Click my name to see the Sky City concept that a group of Japanese architects and engineers are working on to relieve the land crunch in Tokyo. If they build it, the U.S. can say goodbye to the world's tallest title again, since the Freedom Tower tops out at only a measely 1,776 feet.

Incidentally, were there ever any hard stats on how tall the Eyrie Building was supposed to be in the "Gargoyles" universe? Macbeth called it "the tallest building in the world" in City of Stone, but would it have held on to the record when the Petronas Towers or Taipei 101 went up?

99 days left until the Gargoyles DVD is released on December 7, 2004!

2 days left (today and tomorrow) to get your Gathering Diaries posted to Ask Greg!
Patrick
Monday, August 30, 2004 12:40:30 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Siryn, how did the wedding go and did Kanthara manage to send out my program like you thought she might in your previous post.
Matt Fews
Monday, August 30, 2004 08:17:49 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Here's my ramble on "Eye of the Storm", posted now since the room has cleared.

The episode answered one question that I had about the Eye of Odin after watching both "Eye of the Beholder" and "Avalon". Both Fox and the Archmage were "corrupted" by the Eye, but they had already been established as "the bad guys" before they ever donned it (Fox was acting differently because of the shift from human to animal, which altered her mentality, but the Archmage with the Eye of Odin behaved the same way as he had before he'd gotten it - he simply had more "firepower" now). So I found myself wondering what effect the Eye would have on a good person who donned it, and whether that person would be altered for the worse or not. "Eye of the Storm" answered that question of mine clearly, making it certain that anybody would be corrupted by the Eye (apart from Odin himself).

I've mentioned this before, but this episode still puts me slightly in mind of "The Lord of the Rings". Odin is seeking to recover his eye because much of his power went out of him when he gave it up and he needs it to return to his full strength, just as Sauron was after the One Ring because much of his power had gone into it when he made it and he needed it to recover his full strength. And just as whoever tried to use the Ring to stop Sauron would be corrupted by it to the point where that person would become a new Sauron, so Goliath, when he decides to use the Eye against Odin, becomes corrupted by it, and himself starts looking more "Odinish". Of course, the crucial difference here is that returning the Eye to Odin was the right thing to do. I certainly doubt that Sauron, if he'd been given back the Ring, would have apologized to everyone for all the trouble that he'd caused trying to recover it.

I've also mentioned before the fact that I was a little bothered with both Odin and the Odinized Goliath wearing horned helmets, though I've since accepted that as they were both fantasy beings rather than flesh-and-blood Norsemen like Hakon. The reason why this initially troubled me was that the series had displayed Hakon and his followers wearing the sort of helmets that Vikings really did wear, simple helmets without horns, so that I thought when I saw this episode, "The designers know better than that." I wouldn't have been as bothered if Hakon and his men had been also shown with such headgear.

I didn't have the same problem with Sleipnir having only four legs rather than eight (something that's occasionally been brought up); I'm familiar with the Norse myths so I knew how many legs he has, but I suspect that eight legs would have been a pain for the animators to do with a horse.

I was certainly surprised when it turned out that the Eye of Odin was literally that - the eye that Odin gave up for a drink from Mimir's well; I knew the Norse myth and was intrigued the moment that the Eye was first mentioned back in "The Edge", but hadn't thought that Odin himself was going to show up looking for it until the episode actually aired.

Goliath, in his Odinized form, talks in a very "over-the-top" fashion, almost on a par with that of Sevarius's mannerisms (though, fortunately, still in a "good-acting" style on Keith David's part), especially when he's expressing his joy over finally being able to see the sun. One thing that I noticed (I'm not sure that I'd caught it before) was that he actually pats Elisa on the head at one point while talking to her, in a very patronizing fashion.

Two things that only occurred to me for the first time while watching this episode:

1. After Goliath rescues Elisa from Odin, Odin shouts as he retreats, "This isn't over!" The same line that Hakon shouted after being foiled in his initial attack on Castle Wyvern in "Awakening Part One" and Wolf shouted after the gargoyles foiled the Pack's bank robbery in "Upgrade". The Norse and Norse-connected antagonists really seem to have a thing for that line. :)

2. At one point, the snowstorms that appeared to be caused by Odin but were really caused by Goliath were referred to in the dialogue as a "tempest", which suddenly gave me the creativity demon that, if Prospero from "The Tempest" were to someday show up in "Gargoyles" (and, let's face it, "The Tempest" is going to have to get into a series that's already incorporated "Macbeth" and "A Midsummer Night's Dream" in its framework), whether he might be voiced by the actor who did the voice of Odin (and also Petros Xanatos and Kenneth II - I think that his name is Norman Shepherd, but can't remember for certain now). Just a crazy little voice-casting thought, of course.

One thought that I have had about this episode before; at the end, Odin admits ruefully that he's a bit out of practice in dealing with mortals. This is mildly ironic, since Odin was the only one of the Norse gods who regularly dealt with mortals (the rest of them interacted with frost giants, dwarves, and other mythical beings, rather than with humans); he was portrayed as often roaming about in his old one-eyed wayfarer guise (the form that he adopted when he first met Goliath and the others), involving himself in human affairs in different ways. (One particular fashion involved his getting into a riddle-contest with somebody; Odin always won through a bit of cheating, however, by asking that person what Odin whispered in the ear of his dead son Balder, something that only Odin could have known. In fact, the question of just what Odin did whisper in Balder's ear is one of the big unanswered questions of Norse mythology - which does echo one of the big unanswered questions of "Gargoyles" mythology. :).)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, August 30, 2004 07:38:09 AM
IP: 63.186.0.20

Ren- There will be more if it sells well.
suilad
okc
Monday, August 30, 2004 03:41:35 AM
IP: 68.12.196.86

It's only the first season they are releasing, isn't it?
Ren - [ren@chiarascura.com]
Monday, August 30, 2004 03:10:19 AM
IP: 141.151.15.56

Jade: There hasn't been one set yet, but I'd like to see it pinned down as well.
Lynati
Monday, August 30, 2004 02:17:22 AM
IP: 63.158.252.26

Has anyone set up a time to go all preorder from Amazon.com at once? I was also thinking it should be there and also preordered from suncoast and/or sam goody and/or best buy, to totally boost sales for a week in all markets of dvd retail, not just OL. What say ye?
Jade Griffin
Monday, August 30, 2004 01:44:50 AM
IP: 24.205.100.165

8TH!
Siren
Monday, August 30, 2004 01:34:03 AM
IP: 65.33.115.88

seventh. achoo!
Lynati
Monday, August 30, 2004 12:48:08 AM
IP: 63.158.248.134

Hello Again, here's the link to my VH1 "I Love the 90's" Post on Gargoyles. Keep it on the first page by replying with your support of getting it on "Strikes Back"!. UK fans can use the zipcode 97212 during registration. Here's the link:

http://www.vh1.com/interact/boards/main.jhtml/i_love_the_90s/ViewThread?tID=615096&mID=3215955&offset=0&index=0

-Gantros
Gantros
Monday, August 30, 2004 12:35:08 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Um, 5th? Don't really understand the point of this ritual, but I may as well join in nonetheless XD

Yay! Friday hath been posted on Ask Greg. More to come!
TopMan - [top__man@hotmail.com]
Montreal
Monday, August 30, 2004 12:33:21 AM
IP: 64.228.204.132

4TH!!!!!!
matt
Monday, August 30, 2004 12:14:20 AM
IP: 67.65.130.15

3rd!!
DPH
Sanity-challenged, Confusion
Monday, August 30, 2004 12:10:48 AM
IP: 67.14.195.13

Darn...
Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, August 30, 2004 12:10:01 AM
IP: 142.59.132.116

FIRST!!!!

Am I really the first one to post for this week?

Freakin' WOW!!!

That is all I will say.
Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, August 30, 2004 12:09:25 AM
IP: 142.59.132.116

First!
Greg Bishansky
Monday, August 30, 2004 12:08:55 AM
IP: 162.84.164.187