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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending February 14, 2005

Index : Show Images

Blaise > Hope that crash didn't hurt too much!

Now I know this is coming from completely left field, but I was watching the Discovery Channel (more specifically, MythBusters) and, well.... I was wondering what it actually took to blow up a toilet? Yes, I know this sounds insane (coming from me..... not so much), but it was just something that caught my interest (plus, thought it could spark something in here).

I can probably guess what you all are thinking, but believe me, from what I've been told.... this is nothing compared to half the things that pop into my head.

*sigh* Gotta lay off the sugar..... and caffine.... and I need to be getting more sleep.

BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Sunday, February 13, 2005 10:24:52 PM
IP: 64.228.109.106

****Blaise flies into the Room on a magic, flying carpet...with his feet dangling over the side and resting in a magic, flying washbasin filled with hot water.**** Just finished three night's worth of filming that required me to stand for hours on end. Wouldn't have been so bad except for my flat feet and no arch support. Oh, well.

MY AGE WHEN GARGOYLES AIRED> I was another of those 14-year olds who tuned in on the very first episode. I had to--gargoyles are one of my favorite "fantastic creatures," right up there with dragons. I liked the series right of the bat, and my appreciation just grew during the second season.

WINGLESS> I'm keeping your mother in my thoughts, man.

Well, I'm back to trying to catch up on all the sleep I missed, so I'll catch you all later. Until then, farewell. ****Blaise guides his flying items out of the Room. They wobble a little as he starts to nod off, so it's no surprise a few seconds later when a crash is heard just beyond the door, followed by a lot of cussing.****

Blaise
Sunday, February 13, 2005 09:03:50 PM
IP: 209.178.190.28

aww happy birthday christine:P
dan
Sunday, February 13, 2005 08:02:52 PM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Shara > thanks, that's kind of you to say ... just with my birthday closing in on me, and hearing all these people talk about how young they were (Becca was two days old when Gargoyles first aired) makes me feel all decrepit.

Leva > I still maintain that Owen must be a tightie-whities kind of guy ;)

Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Sunday, February 13, 2005 07:40:13 PM
IP: 4.62.21.76

oops one more thing. Siren your costume sounds so awsome. Take lots of pictures. I want to see it.

Christine morgan>Your not old your a hatchling at heart.;-)
Shara - [jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
Sunday, February 13, 2005 06:34:27 AM
IP: 209.179.198.164

Gorebash>Yea your back.You have been missed. Can't wait to meet you and hudson at the gathering. P.s Comic site is still being worked on. Mostly my fault I had to get my toncils out so I could'nt even get on the computer let alone look at it while I was healing. Horrible horrible surgery for anyone who needs to get it when there over 20.

This is too all who are having a rough time right now. I have'nt been able to post lately but have looked in. I hope everything is ok and My prayers are with you.


Shara
Sunday, February 13, 2005 06:32:01 AM
IP: 209.179.198.164

Learned something interesting, I was watching Justice League Unlimited tonight and saw that Ed Asner played Granny Goodness not only for this episode but in Superman:TAS. I'm so used to hearing him do his Hudson/J.Jonah Jameson-like voice, that it never occured to me he might do a woman's voice.
Gantros
Sunday, February 13, 2005 03:49:41 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

For my gargoyle costume which is near completion and will first be worn for this month's Mega-Con was made like this:

It is a Native American Gargoyle, so I have gone to great lengths to keep it authentic. For the dress, I found a dress at Wal-Mart of ALL places. It is gauze skirt and the bodice top was scoop neck. With a little cutting and stitching. I made a plunging neckline and at the skirt part, I cut it to bits to make it more like a loin cloth. Wal-Mart also has those nice fringy trims for clothing and lampshades and such, so I glued that on around the waist with fabric glue. I have yet to master hands and feet, so currently scrapped them. Instead, I plan to wear my Native American deerskin boots. My wings are some of the greatest I found on the regular market. They are called "demon wings". They are latex rubber with wire inside to position them. They also included a tail. The wings go on like a backpack. Over my spine is "muscle and tendons", which run down to a pointed devil tail. The wings were red and black. With a mix of acrylic and latex paints, I repainted them. If you paint latex be sure to sponge and not use a paintbrush. Better yet, use airbrush if you got one. I don't, so I spong. The outside I painted black, the inside, green. I also purchased latex body paint from ebay. It is the color green. I plan to paint my face, neck, arms, and hands. I also bought latex ears. They are called "demon ears", by Woochie, but they are similar to the ears used by the orcs/goblins in LOTR. They cover the whole ear, so they are easier to blend then the elf tips I usually use. I'll be dyeing my hair black, but may wear a wig because my hair is on the short side. I also bought Native American accessories. A staff, jewelry, animal skins and hides, etc. I do have a bow, arrows, and quiver. But recent policy changed at Mega-Con, no weapons or even anything that looks like weapons are allowed :( I might still bring my quiver to use it as a bag if nothing else.
Oh also, with those wings and tail, I hated the pointed tail, so I revamped it with a little alpaca hair. I glued alpaca hair to the end to cover the point and braided and beaded it a little. So it's like a lion's tail. I won't be painting my legs, due to the fact the paint on my legs would need a lot of touch-ups that I don't have the patience for. And of course, I'll have fangs. By the Scarecrow company.

I've learned you can make a simple gargoyle costume from odds and ends and a little searching. :)

Siren
Sunday, February 13, 2005 01:11:55 AM
IP: 67.8.165.179

Pheonyx: Over AIM or through my gmail account? I won't be home until tomorrow and I've been on AIM sporadically. That, and AIM doesn't support sending messages to users that aren't online so that might be why it bounced back.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Saturday, February 12, 2005 05:15:08 PM
IP: 68.6.76.189

Vertigo> I tired to send you a message about your grandfather, and it came back to me. oh well. *sends warm fuzzies*

Wingless> Your mom will be okay. Be positive, and make sure she stays positive. *sends warm fuzzies*

Phoenyx
Memphis
Saturday, February 12, 2005 02:09:02 PM
IP: 135.214.150.125

"To preregister, or not to preregister." That is the question. "Yes, and soon," that is the answer. ;)

Brian > I know someone who was taking commissions for Gathering costumes, but I'm not sure if she's still accepting any more. I will ask and let you know.

166 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:07:31 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

The 2005 Gathering Pre-registration list. Are you on it? You know you want to. :)
kathy - [staff@gargoyles-fans.org]
Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:38:51 AM
IP: 66.82.9.46

James I believed himself to be descended from both Duncan and Canmore *and* from Banquo, via different routes. (Banquo was actually entirely mythical, invented by the Stuarts to give themselves a heroic Scottish ancestor; they were really of Anglo-Norman descent but didn't want to call attention to it.)

But, yes, Shakespeare had to portray Macbeth in a bad light because of James I being on the throne (though he may have also had the inclination to do so as a means of exploring the way in which you go downhill once you commit a crime to get ahead). In particular, he was the one responsible for the idea of Macbeth murdering Duncan in his sleep rather than slaying him in battle; it's generally agreed among Shakespearean scholars that he borrowed the details of the murder from a story about the murder of King Duff (who was, incidentally, the older brother of Kenneth II and - in the Gargoyles Universe - Prince Malcolm).

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, February 12, 2005 07:17:38 AM
IP: 4.244.12.156

I was nineteen when Gargs first aired ... I was interested from the first and totally hooked from 'The Mirror'. Dang times have changed ... I was still living at home when it aired, still pretty much a kid. Doesn't seem like it's been ten+ years!

Gore -- ah, the "Owen was Puck" fiasco. But as I recall, the guy who leaked the the "Owen is Puck" bit two days before the ep aired was Toonfan, who was running a fanzine for animation in general and seemed to have a lot of inside information -- turned out he worked on the show, in the "cutting room". Not creative staff, but someone who'd seen parts of the episodes before they aired. As I recall, some of the writers were NOT HAPPY with him for blabbing ... old scandals. *LOL*

MY favorite moment from the mailing list was when Christine Morgan asked, "Boxers or Briefs?" of Owen.

I can vouch for Merlin Missy, Tara O'Shea, Dangermom and Mary Morris having figured things out about Owen ahead of time. Not sure who in that group made the deductive leap -- Tara, maybe. I got clued in when I started speculating on what other people had said on the list and started hitting close to the mark.

As far as an archive of the list -- I don't know of one online. I have some email files dating back to the mid 90's, though. I'll have to check to see if there's anything there from the mailing list and if the floppies are still good. There were some good moments on that list, for sure!

Leva
Saturday, February 12, 2005 05:20:55 AM
IP: 162.42.84.40

Anyone know who the best person is to contact regarding gargoyle costumes? I may be somewhat a whiz at cars and electronics, but I'm no costume designer!
Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USASaturday, February 12, 2005 03:09:15 AM
IP: 216.37.154.238

James I *thought* himself to be descended from Banquo, not Malcolm. Remember the final scene with the witches?
Anonymous
Saturday, February 12, 2005 02:55:18 AM
IP: 129.234.4.1

oh wait, i think i meant duncan. I'm confused, i haven't watched the second season in awhile.
dan
Saturday, February 12, 2005 01:44:18 AM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Todd: Wasn't the king during shakespere's days the descendant of malcolm? I read that in order for the king not to throw him in prison, shakespere made macbeth the bad guy. Can anyone confirm this?
dan
Saturday, February 12, 2005 01:38:50 AM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Thanks for the link, Patrick. You've got to admit that "Gargoyles" may have helped those people's cause a bit (though they might not even have heard of it). It certainly must have introduced a lot of its viewers to how the real history of Macbeth was different from the Shakespeare play. (Mind you, without Shakespeare, I doubt that very many people would have heard of Macbeth in the first place, other than specialists in early Scottish history.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, February 11, 2005 08:43:10 PM
IP: 4.244.12.180

Here's something interesting I saw in the news. "Lawmakers from Scotland have launched a campaign to remember the real 11th century king during 2005, the 1,000th anniversary of his birth." Click my name for the full article.

Gorebash > You live! Have you gotten my e-mails? Cindy needs your measurements so she can get to work on Gathering masquerade costumes.

167 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.


Patrick - [<-- 1000 years of Macbeth]
Friday, February 11, 2005 08:18:07 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Todd - actually, I'm more thrilled that the 2nd question in line right now is the very last Gathering 2003 Journal. Right now, there are 361 questions between the last Gathering 2003 Journal and the 1st Gathering 2004 Journal.
DPH
AR, USA
Friday, February 11, 2005 07:57:49 PM
IP: 67.14.195.7

My question is next in line at "Ask Greg" at last. (It's the one where I ask him why Canmore, when he was invading Scotland in "City of Stone Part Four", was invading as "the Hunter, vowed to wipe out all gargoyles" rather than as "Canmore, son of Duncan, come to reclaim his father's throne"; he didn't unhood himself and reveal himself to be Canmore until he was facing Macbeth at the end.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, February 11, 2005 07:19:00 PM
IP: 4.244.12.48

I was 16 at the time Gargoyles originally aired in 1994. I had known about the show for several months from advertisements I had seen in Marvel comics (my older brother was a HUGE comic collector). It was a little hard tracking the show down becase we didn't get Disney Afternoon in Fresno, instead, Gargoyles aired on our local FOX affiliate as part of their Friday afternoon cartoon line-up. I remember really enjoying Awakenings 1-5 a lot! It was funny, action packed, entertaining... the show had signs of promise. Then Thrill of the Hunt came along and I felt disapointed. It started to feel like a typical Saturday morning cartoon show that just happened to have a great opener. Temptation was better but still not Awakenigs. It wasn't until Deadly Force aired that I knew, without a doubt, that I was in for the long haul. Watching Broadway accidentally shoot Elisa with her own gun, seeing her lay in a pool of her own blood, listening to Dr. Sato graphically describe the path the bullet took through Elisa's body, and the powerful yet not didactic message when BOTH parties admit fault for not treating guns respectfully and responsibly... it was at this moment that I knew this was no Saturday morning cartoon show and I would see it through to the end.
IRC Goliath - [goliath1 (at) pacbell [dot] net]
Friday, February 11, 2005 06:47:59 PM
IP: 209.234.142.80

:( work's keeping me away from things. that and warcrack. but while here at work, waiting for a drive to format, i've got some time to hit the cr.

i was 16 when i watched the show. i think it was nov. or dec. of 1994. i had seen adds for the show and completely blew it off. "how can you make a show about gargoyles? it'll be dumb." hah. 'course i said the same thing about various disney movies like hercules and tarzan. ah well. clearly my book cover judgements are poor.

i think i caught my first episode simply because i left the tv on the disney afternoon (which was a staple of my afternoon viewing ever since it first started). i was doing homework or something and wasn't paying attention. then i started to notice the show and after that day watched it regularly.

i miss the old school mailing list days, when the shows were premiering. there'd be a small group that caught the episode on satelite a few days before it was broadcast and would toss out spoilers.

"owen is puck!"

hah. anyone know if the list has been archived somewhere? i'd love to make those available online for people to browse through. some really great stuff.

Gorebash
Friday, February 11, 2005 05:35:29 PM
IP: 207.206.239.232

...
Anonymous
Friday, February 11, 2005 01:36:14 PM
IP: 135.214.150.125

Todd: My original assumption was based where Owen explains Oberon's vulnerability to iron. If figured that Owen had done his homework, but that his loyalty only extended so far (ie. he didn't think Xanatos was going to win).

I figured "You served the human" referred to Shakespeare, and "You're the tricky one" gave me the sort of impression that Owen might have power-behind-the-throne relationship with Xanatos.

But I missed the "Gathering, Part 2" and found out when someone else told me, so I can't really say what I thought when they reveiled it because I already knew. Though I did think the guy who told me was joking the first time he told me.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Friday, February 11, 2005 01:14:18 PM
IP: 64.192.79.181

NEW AVERAGE AGE OF GARGOYLE FANS/VIEWERS:

matt, Patrick>> I recalculated the average age. There were 36 responses (including people who mentioned how old their friend, sister, brother, cousin, etc were in 1994) and the **NEW*** average age is <drumroll please>... tah-dah! 15.3611111111 or about 15.

Enigma:)
Friday, February 11, 2005 12:03:23 PM
IP: 128.101.216.49

I got hooked...hmm... in grade... geeze. I can't even remember. But I was in grade school. o.o Maybe grade six? So I woulda been like, eleven or twelve at the time.

Yow.

And I got hooked simply because the first scene I ever saw was the scene in which Brooklyn's motorcycle blew up and he was turning to snarl at the biker dudes.

He scared me. I loved it. ^__^;; Heh.

The Sadistic Cow
Friday, February 11, 2005 10:16:37 AM
IP: 69.157.2.52

I was 13 when I started watching, and I watched it from the very start until the conclusion of the Avalon trilogy (because UPN, which aired the "Disney Afternoon" series of cartoons, cut it off after that...). I never got to see the rest of the series until I managed to catch that TGC episode where Goliath got arrested, and then I never saw another until I got Dish Network (and later Direct TV...because Dish sucks!) and watch them on Toon Disney. I didn't even know this site existed until way back last year when the DVD got announced for an actual release.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Friday, February 11, 2005 01:12:38 AM
IP: 68.6.76.189

Patrick> Nope, sorry!!! I was born at the end of the "Trudeau" era.

TODD> I never realised that They were one in the same. As I recall, when I first saw it, my jaw hit the floor. I remember that clearly. I DID, however, think that Owen knows something big is going down. But I never got the clues.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaFriday, February 11, 2005 12:15:31 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

I was 15 when I got hooked. I guess I can say it was an overnight thing. Though I cannot remember what episode that was I can say that at that time I thought Brooklyn was the coolest.
Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USAFriday, February 11, 2005 12:13:07 AM
IP: 216.37.226.197

I didn't have a positive opinion of Gargoyles until I saw "The Mirror," in the fall of the second season. That would be 1996, which would have made me 15. Still, I got into Gargoyles by watching the Disney Afternoon cartoons. I felt guilty about liking Gargoyles, Darkwing Duck and the like. It was as if I wasn't growing up. I was surprised to learn some of my intelligent classmates in my geometry class watched the show!

Alex Garg, Disliking "Temptation">> I still remember seeing the last half of "Temptation" in an extended home room in junior high school. I accused the fans of "Gargoyles" of having quite bad taste if they liked that sort of meaningless fighting. Yes, from the segment of "Temptation" I saw, I thought that the "story" was just an excuse to see gargoyles fight. I have mellowed a bit since ;-). I can even watch the new TMNT. (Not that that series is all meaningless fighting, but it's story generally falls short of Gargoyles.)


JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:22:53 PM
IP: 4.247.128.126

I was 14 when I first saw it. The first episode I saw was the last Awakenings. I caught it just on when Demona was revealing her name and had Goliath pinned to the ground.

And my first thought was "WTF?" But those last 3-4 minutes struck a chord with me that made sure I caught the next episode :D

Siren
Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:21:28 PM
IP: 67.8.165.198

Hey 30 and 40 ain't old, 200 years old is. It's nice to ask a 30 or 40 year old about the show, they remember more then us 20/19/18 year olds:P
Dan
Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:11:47 PM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Wow ... I feel very, very old now ...
Christine - [christine@sabledrake.com]
Thursday, February 10, 2005 07:47:09 PM
IP: 4.62.21.76

Since the next episode for Greg to ramble on (when he has the opportunity) will be "The Gathering" ("The Gathering Part One", to be precise), I'd like to raise a question (which has probably been asked before, but I'm certain that there are plenty of people here who hadn't discovered the site at that time). When did you first suspect that Owen and Puck were the same person?

In my case, it wasn't until near the end of "The Gathering Part One", when Owen was frantically packing his bags (so to speak) to get as far away from the Eyrie Building as possible before Oberon's attack. Since Oberon's original purpose of coming to New York was to haul Puck back to Avalon, that got me wondering: could Owen be Puck in disguise? If so, that would certainly explain why he didn't want to be around when Oberon returned.

The embarrassing part of it is that I missed all the other clues preceding it: Demona's "You serve the human" line in "The Mirror", Demona calling Owen "the tricky one" in "City of Stone Part One" (I thought at the time that she was simply considering him more clever than Xanatos - which certainly didn't seem right to me), the fact that Owen's response to his hand getting turned to stone in "The Price" was to simply stare at it (I was too distracted by the fact that it had turned to stone, period), Owen's immediately realizing the significance of Anastasia remarrying her first husband, and Boudicca bringing Oberon to the Eyrie Building when tracking Puck.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, February 10, 2005 07:24:31 PM
IP: 4.244.18.203

I'm pretty sure Greg meant Xanadu.
Greg Bishansky
Thursday, February 10, 2005 07:14:49 PM
IP: 141.155.108.154

...
Anonymous
Thursday, February 10, 2005 06:56:11 PM
IP: 135.214.150.125

Helicopter>> Maybe he meant to say Xanatopia...??? (ponders)
Lord GargFan
Thursday, February 10, 2005 05:56:03 PM
IP: 24.11.252.213

Patrick said:
"Wow... I never realized we had so many people born during the Reagan years in this forum."

It kinda makes sense though, right? Weren't 6-12 year olds the target demographic, or thereabouts? (of course, it was boys that were the target, but that's Disney's mistake for making ignorant assumptions about gender).

"It makes me feel old to see so many people who only know of Reagan being shot and the space shuttle Challenger accident from their history textbooks."

Heck, some of us didn't even learn about any of that in school. If you're not from the the US, it's doubtful that such material would be included in your history textbooks. I only know of Reagan from media and movies, they never educated us about the events surrounding his being shot in history classes. I've never been curious enough about the incident to look it up. Most Canadians though, even ones my age and younger, know a good deal about JFK and maybe some of the conspiracy theories surrounding his assassination.

Didn't know out about Challenger until it was brought up in the media again when Columbia happened recently.

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Thursday, February 10, 2005 04:49:16 PM
IP: 69.17.169.178

I started watching in 1995 at the age of 14. My first episode was "City of Stone", and I remember being bored with all the eleventh century stuff and wanting them to get back to what was happening in New York.

Once I started understanding the back story, of course, things changed.

Whitbourne
Thursday, February 10, 2005 04:18:08 PM
IP: 156.34.92.203

Let's see...in 94 I was 11, I probably just watched it with the rest of the Disney Afternoon and liked it, not much more to it. Then about 4 years ago I was visiting family in Missouri and they had sattelite, and I caught Gargoyles on Toon Disney, and realized there was something more to it than what I remembered. Finally, They started running it on ABC family last year and I was hooked again. The rest they say is history.
Gantros
Thursday, February 10, 2005 02:49:35 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

I was 9 in 1994. I remember running home everyday after elementary school excited to see Gargoyles. Then I short paced the house and squirmed for an hour until it actually came on.
I was looking forward to seeing the show even before it came out. I read the Disney Adventures "preview" and was hooked from that point on.
I didn't find the fandom until I was in high school, and it was only by chance. A search for some term produced a link to the MGC, and I was like "Hey, I remember this!". And I've been here ever since.

CKayote - [CKayote@worldnet.att.net]
Orlando, FL
Thursday, February 10, 2005 02:26:01 PM
IP: 64.192.79.181

I was 17 when it first aired....it was a week before my 18th birthday.

Wingless>>>I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and your mother

Spacebabie
Thursday, February 10, 2005 01:21:00 PM
IP: 69.161.157.101

Wingless> My thoughts and prayers are with you. My mother passed away in 2002 after a long fight with leukemia. I know what you're going through, and you have my sympathy.

I was 12 when Gargoyles first aired, and my brother, who introduced me to it, was 9. It took me a little while to admit that my little brother might know what he was talking about, but once I started watching regularly I was more hooked than he was <g>.

Kaylle - [kaylle@ladyavalon.com]
Boston, MA
Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:58:35 PM
IP: 18.90.2.82

Wow... I never realized we had so many people born during the Reagan years in this forum. It makes me feel old to see so many people who only know of Reagan being shot and the space shuttle Challenger accident from their history textbooks.

I was 20 and starting my second year of college in 1994. I started following the show in 1995. I would set the time on my old VCR to record the shows on the days I had classes, then watch the tapes at night. I found the online fandom in late 1996, shortly after getting hooked up to the internet. I received my college degree and went to the first Gathering in 1997.

So whoever's calculating that average... add me in. But if you want to be a little closer to the true median... include my age twice more for last year's Gathering con chair (who's the same age) and the con chair of Gathering 2001, who's a couple years ahead of me.

168 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:30:54 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

I had turned 8 about 2 weeks before the show aired and I actually convinced my cousin,who was 13 at the, and my sister, who was 5 and a half, to watch it with me. Oh the good 'ole days of after school tv programming.
mascubanana
Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:22:41 PM
IP: 160.39.105.72

In Oct 94.. I was 11.

I remember playing the board game either that year or the next. I played it with some neighbors (they owned it). That was my first intro to the show. I loved that game.

I didn't get to see any eps til they were on ToonDisney. I found them on there due to finding this site waaaaaaaaay back when. I'm not even sure what made me look up "Gargoyles" unless I was searching for the architectural elements... heh. :\

I'm here, and I own the DVD. :)

Patricia Lovelady - [sabre0link@hotmail.com]
Montevallo, AL, USA
Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:10:21 PM
IP: 68.159.177.69

matt>> I figured out the average age of the 21 people who posted an answer to the question "How old were you when the show first aired?" <There were a couple of people who ages I had to estimate, since they didn't give an exact number.>
The answer is <drum roll please.....> 14.33333333333333333 or 14 years and 4 months old. Or in other words about 14.

<I'm at school, trying to kill time until my class starts, that's why I figured it out. Besides, I like math:)>

Enigma:)
Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:54:09 AM
IP: 128.101.216.49

I was 14, and a freshman in high school, when the original airings started in '94 so I guess I'm somewhere in the middle.
Aaron
Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:41:02 AM
IP: 66.140.224.86

Sorry for the double post...
Ahh! Typo <it figures that I saw it about 10 seconds AFTER I hit the submit button> truned should be ***turned***

***Goes back to lurking for real this time***

Enigma:)
Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:15:01 AM
IP: 128.101.216.49

***Comes out of lurking mode to post***
I must have been one of the youngest ones when the show came on. It started airing just after I turned 8 (although I must admit that I don't remember if I watched it from day one). I think I just started watching since it was part of the Disney Afternoon and I was already watching other shows from that. I then "rediscovered" the show the summer I truned 15.
My little sister watched the show with me too sometimes and she was only 3 when it began. <BTW, I'm 18 now, if anyone cares...>

***Goes back to lurking***

Enigma:)
Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:12:33 AM
IP: 128.101.216.49

"I'd be really hard pressed to name anyone who was only 10 in 1994."

I was ten, Pat. So are you still hard pressed? :P

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaThursday, February 10, 2005 11:08:24 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

In October 1994, I was 36 years old, firmly established in my job in the Loop, involved with several different professional/social organizations, and very busy with wedding planning. "Gargoyles" wasn't even a blip on my radar screen. (Proper marketing on the part of Disney/Buena Vista might have put it there, but hindsight is 20/20.) It wasn't until autumn 2001 that I finally watched an episode, but I'd wager I was just as impressed with the series at age 43 as the rest of you were at your far more tender ages. ;)

Wingless -- God bless.

Ellen
Chicago
Thursday, February 10, 2005 09:02:06 AM
IP: 152.163.100.137

I was... *Thinks* In 1994 I was turning 14. So I was ... young, needless to say.

I remember finding this fandom, I was one of the youngest ones at the time I believe. That would be about two years later in 1996.

Wow. Time flies.

Lily Doll
Thursday, February 10, 2005 08:44:32 AM
IP: 67.35.196.107

I'm not sure if it was a newspaper article that I'd read that convinced me to watch, or if I'd seen a commercial on TV. It could've been both. But I have a not-so-vague memory of READING about Gargoyles before seeing it. It's possible it was covered in The Toronto Sun newspaper, they've got a pretty thorough entertainment section.

I was 12 when Gargoyles began airing. I remember that "Awakening" aired all in one week, and it was thrilling. I can't remember what time and on what channel it aired on in Canada regularly. I DO remember that it eventually settled into a Saturday morning slot, 'cause that's where I finally found it, during the Avalon arc, after having lost track of it. I saw most of Season 2 through to its conclusion, missed most of The Goliath Chronicles. There're still episodes in Season 2 and Goliath Chronicles that'll be brand new to me by the time the DVDs are released, so that's kinda awesome.

At the risk of being unoriginal, "City of Stone" cemented my love for the series. I didn't realize until seeing online that it had only been four parts, it felt a lot longer back then.

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Thursday, February 10, 2005 02:53:25 AM
IP: 69.17.169.178

Likewise, I was 12 years old in 1994. Unfortunately, this caused problems once I went from elementary school to middle school, which made it next to impossible to watch most of the 2nd season during its original airing.
StarCreator
Thursday, February 10, 2005 02:44:33 AM
IP: 69.140.225.245

i was 12 years old in 1994... anyone calculating the average age of all of us in 1994?

Greg must've been in "Future Tense" mode today when he answered that question. he said "Xanatopia" when he meant "Xanadu"...

matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Thursday, February 10, 2005 01:53:02 AM
IP: 67.65.131.68

I was in my freshmen year in college (age 18 - 19) and I had a class at during the time slot the show as in. I don't think I actually got to see an episode until Season 2 when it was on more than once a week. By then I was almost 20. (I'm 29 now)
[Sits over with the rest of the *insert politically correct non-offensive word for "Old people" / "mature viewers", etc.* um.. yeah that demographic. :-) ]

Leo
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 10:25:32 PM
IP: 68.231.241.236

I must be an exception too *^_^* -- scoots over to sit by Patrick -- When Gargoyles first aired I was in my early 20s, I'd just moved out of my parents and was living on my own for the first time. I'd been anticipating it for a while, because there were promo/commercials for it on the Lion King video and other Disney tapes, but because of my job, I wasn't able to catch the show when it actually was on tv and had to wait for the video tapes some months later before getting a chance to watch the 5 episode intro. I think I got to watch it around Valentines Day actually, at a friend get together, it was the tapes I got for our video party and I was adamant that I would finally get to see the show. *yay!*

I didn't get to see very many episodes after that, even though I really liked the show, because life was hectic and the timing wasn't good for me. I planned to just catch up with it on tape, but then they only put out the first 13 episodes...d'oh...!!! It was a few years later when I finally saw it on cable, and saw more, but not all of the series, and was all excited... then it ended it's cable run. Then I found it on Disney Channel which finally got added to the regular cable tier... and again just as it ended it's run there.

I was hot to watch it, because my friend Sonia sent me some of Jennifer/CrzyD's fan art that just was yummy, and I wanted to just watch the series all the way through. Finally Toon Disney came to my city via Digital Cable, and I jumped on it.

Yay!!!

And that's how I finally got to see the ENTIRE series, finally. sigh... Then I went and committed fan fic. *^_^* and stumbled over the fandom. That was... ummm... 4 or 5 years ago? *thinks* maybe?

*yawns*
naptime is now
>^,,^<

Mooncat
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 09:45:51 PM
IP: 68.102.17.133

MUMBASA, Yay, it might not have won a People`s Choice Award but it did get an Annie on Sunday.
Matt Fews
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 07:14:54 PM
IP: 209.47.172.60

Vetigo, Yeah, that was a great ep and one of the few I forgot to tape on MY PRECIOUSSSS tape of the show.
Matt Fews
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 07:03:21 PM
IP: 209.47.172.60

Ya know, i was just thinking, if no one else saw that show. No one would be here right now, maybe it was destiny that brought us all together, that binding force that keeps us together and pulls us apart. I wonder if history, the very essence that keeps us moving, brought us all here. Somethings are not made without a damn good reason, what ever they may be.
Dan
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 06:54:08 PM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Hmmm... when Gargoyles first aired, I was a newly turned 8 year old. I never saw any of the commercials, but my little brother had, and I only watched it because he wanted to. Well, thank goodness for little brothers, because I don't think I would have ever started watching if it weren't from him.
Got hooked right from the first episode, and only entered the fandom early last year when I found out there was still a huge fanbase.

Why do I suddenly feel so old?

BrooksBabe - [belfour20_mccabe24@hotmail.com]
T.O., Canada
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 06:51:19 PM
IP: 64.228.49.74

Wow, i was 10 in october, i was finishing out my second semester of 4th grade. I turned 11 on may 18th the following may. My first impressions were, "oooh a new show to add to my childhood collection". Most of the lines and connections i didn't understand, but i thought the characters were intriguing. I barely remember which episodes i saw, i remember watching the awakenings,deadly force, the avalon eps, city of stone, and that's all i basically remember. I watched more, there really hazy memories though. When goliath chronicles came out, i didn't watch it. I don't know why, i just had a feeling it would be a silly ripoff of the first two seasons. And it looks like i was right. Soon after they finished i wondered what had happened to the show, 1-2 years after they pulled it off the air, i watched it on abc family on saturday morning. Till we got toon disney and comcast, then they rest was history.
Dan
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 06:47:25 PM
IP: 68.42.18.157

WINGLESS - Best wishes to your mother.

I had already graduated from college just the year before "Gargoyles" came out, so I suspect I'd be one of the older fans.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 06:44:58 PM
IP: 4.245.19.53

I saw the original airings back in Oct. 94 when I was one month from turning 10. I don't remember my initial reactions to each episode, though I do remember starting to dislike the show around "Temptation." Then "Deadly Force" came on and I was hooked. I followed the series through its end and into reruns.

I didn't get into the fandom until I was out of high school - I was around before HS but not really participating and nowhere to be seen during HS - though I do recall wanting to go to the Gathering '98; however, my parents weren't about to let me go to New York (and they certainly didn't want to come along).

Wingless>> I hope your mom pulls through, even if it is a long road to a full recovery.

Alex Garg
VA, USA
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 04:24:05 PM
IP: 216.145.68.246

I first saw it when I was 14. The first time I saw it they were at the part where the vikings had already taken over the castle and all the gargoyles were getting killed. I didn't know what it was all about and caused a temporary turn-off for a few months all because I just didn't get it. I still have quite a few VCR tapes with Gargoyles on them and once the second season comes out I can kick them all out since the recording was crud.
I'd still like to know where everything stands on the second season as of yet...

Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USAWednesday, February 9, 2005 03:47:23 PM
IP: 209.74.24.219

Wingless: my prayers are still with your mom!

Age I was when Gargs first aired: October 94, right? That means I was a couple months shy of turning 10.

I can't remember if I watched Gargs when they were new episodes or if they were reruns, but I remember being living in northern Virginia at the time, so I was still in elementary school...

And now I'm 20, and probably love Gargoyles more than I did when I was a kid.

Kristen - [zzilly14@yahoo.com]
Virginia, USA
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 03:43:36 PM
IP: 199.249.157.129

Whip one up and let's take a look at it.
Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USAWednesday, February 9, 2005 03:34:15 PM
IP: 209.74.24.219

Let's see, I was 13 when the show first aired. Wow, I feel old typing that, it doesn't seem like that long ago. I remember watching the five-day Awakening mini-series, for some reason thinking that would be it, and was excited by a commercial saying new episodes would air every Friday. Also remember watching season 2 every day after school with a friend of mine. Fun times.

And in 1996, I finally got a decent VCR and was able to tape them, it was Fall 1996, so I got the corrected versions of every episode, like the end of "Vows" and they fixed the moving mouth on Xanatos's armor in "City of Stone"... but they were all aired hideously out of order. So for a weekend, my previously mentioned friend and I got a bunch of blank tapes, went to his house, hooked up the VCRs and re-recorded all my tapes so they'd be in the correct order, thanks to an episode guide I printed off of some site.

I think it was February 1997 when I first started posting here.

WINGLESS> All the best to your mom. My dad is currently in and out of the hospital for blood cancer and has been for the last eight months. Not asking for any prayers or well wishes for him, frankly the guy's an ass, and anything he gets is too good for him.

But still, I know the hospital experience is unpleasant, so here's hoping your mom pulls through.

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 03:23:58 PM
IP: 141.155.108.154

We're Giving out ages when Gargs first aired are we? Guess I would have been 28....oh, to be 28 again! Have always been a fan of animation. In fact I wanted to be an animator - but though I was able to draw fairly well, I'm legally blind and I don't have the speed when I draw. I also visited an animation studio in when I was about 18 in a sort of a job experience thing. The person that was showing us around looked at my work and said that I'd never be an animator. Of course-athough I hate being told I can't do something, I got involved with a local project doing a 30 second animated promo clip for a small music company-it took me 9 months and 300+ frames later I did it. It wasn't brilliant, but I proved I could do it. As a result of that experience though, I've now limited my artwork to designing CD covers and posters on the computer. Haven't held a pencil in years. Despite wanting to draw gargs, seeing how incredible the fandom artists are, nothing I could do could compare.

Mom update: My mom is still on life support. Her heart and lungs are strong, but she's been ravaged by infection. She's far from out of the woods-and "if" she recovers-it will be a long recovery. A big thank you to all of you sending positive thoughts and prayers her way. *sends hugs to all*

Wingless
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 02:59:57 PM
IP: 69.196.243.7

I was only 8 when the show first aired. Granted, I just became a serious member of the fandom, but I was still only 8! Wow, thats insane.
mascubanana
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 01:13:59 PM
IP: 160.39.105.72

If I'm an exception, than just about all of my friends in the fandom are exceptions, too... because I'm younger than all but about two or three of them.

But that's okay... we certainly have no problem being labled the exceptional ones. ;)

Patrick - [P]
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 12:22:49 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

I've been too busy to make replys the past couple days.
"Brian> what about gargoyle wings?"
and
"What's so controversial about gargoyle wings? About the only way to stir things up discussing those would be to talk about how great they taste when tossed in buffalo sauce, and how unlike chicken wings, an order of a dozen is enough to last a month. :P"
Well, the whole idea was to let you fill in the blank since I really wasn't looking for anything controversial (*cough* Lexington *cough*). I wouldn't go about eating them because there wouldn't be enough on them to piss on for their size.:p

Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USAWednesday, February 9, 2005 12:01:00 PM
IP: 209.74.24.219

My 6 year old daughter loves the show too. Her favorite of course is Bronx. At Mega-Con we'll both be dressing as gargoyles :)
Siren
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 08:41:39 AM
IP: 67.8.165.198

::raises a hand:: I was 10 in 1994... But I agree, there is a very wide range of ages across the fandom, from old to young. And many people with children are introducing their kids to the show, 2nd gen Gargoyles fans. heh. ::goes back to lurking.
Shari/GE - [sfaber@kent.edu]
Kent, OH, USA
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 08:22:42 AM
IP: 131.123.48.178

Patrick>Hence why I said "average". You are an exception. I am sure there are more, but most Gargoyles fan started while still in middle-high school.
Siren
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 07:52:15 AM
IP: 67.8.165.198

"We all saw it when we were average 10-16 years old."

Not true at all. I was in college when "Gargoyles" came out. And I'd have to say more than half of the people I know from the fandom are my age or older. Of the ones who are younger, most of them were not younger by much. They were in high school when I was in college, or a few were still in junior high. But I'd be really hard pressed to name anyone who was only 10 in 1994.

169 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 07:49:02 AM
IP: 66.93.14.153

GANTROS> The Phoenix Gate works as Greg said it does and as the show said it does.

You cannot change time in the Gargoyles Universe. That's the way it works, and according to Greg, the Gate was born with the time stream, born on Avalon, but still as a pressure valve for the time stream.

The Gate took Goliath exactly where he wanted to go in 1940. That's how it works.

Greg Bishansky
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 04:16:37 AM
IP: 141.155.108.154

Todd> I've always been under the impression that changing the past is impossible in the Garg universe only if the Pheonix Gate was the means of conveyance. My reasoning behind this is that since the Pheonix Gate is a product of the Third Race, they would put in safe guards to prevent someone using it from altering the past so that, directly or indirectly, could threaten their race. In other words, the Gate can travel only along one possible timeline, only involving people in past events ("Vows", for example), when the timeline it (the Gate) knows needs a push in a certain direction to sync up properly. You could say the Gate does this subtly by bringing people to the right spatial location at the right time so that their actions would have the desired effect, this is why the Gate dumped Goliath in WW2 London just when Griff could swoop in. Goliath couldn't have known the precise time during the Battle of Britain, he certainly couldn't have wanted to be in the air when he arrived, either. This implies that the Gate took over somewhat to put him in position to put the Gate's timeline back in order, this probably how Timedancer would have worked on a subtle level, kind of like an unintentional parallel to Quantum Leap.
Gantros
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 02:10:28 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

Greg B: I suggest you aquire a copy of the episode where Hunter actually wrestles an opponent. :) I won't give any details away, but I think even you would love that episode. PLENTY of Lord of the Rings references in that one.

Matt Fews: MUMBASA! ;)

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Wednesday, February 9, 2005 01:44:59 AM
IP: 68.6.76.189

Speaking of "Days of Future Past", the present part of the story does have a certain "Gargoyles-ish" atmosphere to it. I mean, the X-Men having to stop Mystique (a blue-skinned red-haired female mutant who's the mother of one of them) from killing an anti-mutant politician and thereby starting a fresh anti-mutant crusade - that could easily be transferred to the Gargoyle Universe with you-know-who as Mystique. Though the Gargoyles rules of time travel wouldn't permit anyone to prevent an assassination that had actually taken place.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 07:53:25 PM
IP: 4.244.12.101

The problem with Father of the Pride was the humour. It was aimed at people 18-26 years old. Around the same age range as South Park. Both are animated comedies, but from the start South Park looked and sounded like an adult comedy. While Father of the Pride was billed, "From the creators of Shrek", so instantly, parents though their kids could watch it. A lot of complaints came in after the first show. I know I watched it with my daughter the first night and was shocked. Some of the jokes were amusing for me, but I think it was decieving how it was billed. I figured they would have adult humour, like Shrek, but not at face value. Shrek was absolutely great for hiding the adult humour effectivly. "You think he's compensanting for something?", for instance. I got it, my 6 year still doesn't. That was great, witty comedy.
Due to the style and the way it was advertised, FotP looks like a kid-friendly show. Cute, cuddly lions and other animals....Donkey making a guest apperance. It was confusing as to who they really were aiming at. At least with South Park, regardless of being animated, my daughter has never been interested in the show. Probably due to the ugly, construction paper children. But make an animated show with fuzzy animals and it is hard to get the stigma of children's show off.

Even Gargoyles had that problem with age-stigma. Since its animated and by Disney, a lot of young adults and adults weren't all that interested. We all saw it when we were average 10-16 years old. Most teens, by the time they reach 16, are turned off of most animation, unless it is meant to be gross or sexual. We know it has deep storylines and spans all ages. It's all in the marketing about how well it does. First and foremost, marketing counts. Second, word of mouth. Because we love the show and know how good and important it is, we are showing the rest of the USA, Disney, and perhaps even the world, that it was much more then a cartoon. Not many other tv series get their very own convention. And even less animated tv series get their own convention. Disney set the ages for the show, but we help to break that barrier down.
Father of the Pride just muddled it together.

Siren
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 07:20:06 PM
IP: 67.8.165.198

Actually, I'd pay money to not have that DVD. I couldn't make it through ten minutes... if the show was any good, I'd understand the anger some feel towards it being cancelled, but... I have seen many prime-time cartoons. A few good, most suck. I'd rather sit through Home Movies than Father of the Pride... and anyone who knows me knows I hate Home Movies.
Greg Bishansky
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 02:33:51 PM
IP: 141.155.108.154

Perhaps I neglected to mention that you need to find people who want to buy the DVD. Besides a variety of other factors, there are clearly some people who just didn't like the show much. I thought it was all right, but I don't know if I want to own the DVD or if I really need to see it back on TV.

As for related properties feeding off one another's popularity, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It was a reasonable assumption that people who watch "The Simpsons" would also want to watch "The Critic" and "Futurama", but that didn't necessarily work out. Jay Sherman even had a guest cameo on "The Simpsons", but it wasn't sufficient to save "The Critic". With "Father of the Pride" and "Shrek", it may have been a bit more of a strech for audiences since "Shrek" was a movie aimed at pretty much the whole family, while "Father of the Pride" was a TV show aimed more at an older audience. Plus I don't believe you had entirely the same people working on the show as worked on "Shrek".

Honestly, I think there's only so much value in asking why the show didn't succeed even though this, that, and the other were true. It might be somewhat useful to point out a major marketing flub, but aside from that, fact still is the show just didn't survive. I think looking ahead to a DVD release is better than looking back and wondering what possibly went wrong.

Demonskrye - [<---Jim Hill Media]
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 11:36:26 AM
IP: 67.100.23.24

Demonskyre, so how many copies can I put you down for, when it's out in November.

If American Dad piggy-backed on Family Guy's popularity, shouldn't Father of the Pride have done the same with Shrek after all, they did have an episode centered on one of the film's characters.

Matt Fews
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 08:24:14 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

Todd> Ah yes, of course, the Essential volumes. Thanks for bringing that up. These are a really great deal if you like reading old Marvel comics but don't want to shell out for the hardcover Masterworks. You get about 20 issues for around $15. Of course, they are in black and white on fairly low quality paper, but if you just want to read the stories without shelling out too much, it's well worth it.

Forgot to mention this last night...

Siren> Actually, in 3D, animating a tiger is really no harder than animating a lion. It's essentially like making a stop-motion film about a tiger except that the model only exists in your computer. Once somebody goes in and puts the stripes on the model, they stay exactly where they belong. Think about the Magic Carpet in "Aladdin". Now technically, he's a fusion of 2D and 3D, but the reason they used the 3D is so they could get the intricate carpet design they wanted consistantly without some poor animator having to draw it over and over again. Same idea with tigers.

Demonskrye - [<---Jim Hill Media]
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 07:58:51 AM
IP: 146.115.115.131

It's Volume 2, and all of the volumes of "The Essential X-men" are available at Amazon.com for $14.95 apiece. Click my name for the details on Volume 2.

And if you haven't seen the original "Planet of the Apes"... pick up a copy of that while you're shopping, too. It felt to me like there were echoes of that in both "Future Tense" and "The New Olympians."

Most amusing part of Greg's "Future Tense" ramble... the implied comment that Puck is a "Star Wars" fan.

Patrick - [<-- click for link]
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 07:36:15 AM
IP: 66.93.14.153

DEMONSKRYE - They reprinted "Days of Future Past" in something called "The Essential X-Men" series (it was either Volume Two or Volume Three, I can't remember which), which should be on the shelves in the comics/graphic novel section of any good bookstore. You should be able to find it there.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 07:16:19 AM
IP: 4.244.12.121

What's so controversial about gargoyle wings? About the only way to stir things up discussing those would be to talk about how great they taste when tossed in buffalo sauce, and how unlike chicken wings, an order of a dozen is enough to last a month. :P

170 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 06:50:56 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Hmmm Father of the pride. I think I saw 2 episodes of it. When I saw the lion spray whip cream on himself and want his wife lion to lick it off I changed the channel. If I wanted to see that I could have just turned the channel To sin a max. Or HBO.

I think the downfall of it was mainly the time slot it was in and they thought adults would love the cartoon humor of the lions. Most adults just changed the channel to non animated things. That and it cost to much to make each episode.

hmmm they should of made 3d animated gargoyles insted. ;-)
Shara
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 03:01:44 AM
IP: 209.179.210.135

Brian> what about gargoyle wings?
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 02:33:05 AM
IP: 68.91.211.97

"Brian, let's hear it anyway, this topic that'll supposedly open up a can of worms. Can't leave us hanging like that."
How about gargoyle...

...Wings? *prepares to be pelted with rotten cabbages*

Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USAMonday, February 7, 2005 11:12:08 PM
IP: 216.37.226.56

Trying to respond to topics in order of appearence.

Greg Reading Fanfiction> I think Alex Garg summed this up pretty well. Greg's reluctance to look at fan writings goes beyond just covering himself legally. Even if people were to swear up and down that they would never ever sue him and put it in writing, I think he may still be concerned about appearing to be influenced (or outright being influenced, even if just subconciously) by a fanfic author's work.

Haakon and Wolf> As I've said before, "Vendettas" is my least favorite of the canon episodes. I don't so much mind the Haakon/Wolf connection. It's more that Haakon seemed like such a major foe - if not in terms of actualy power, then in emotional impact - that it just wasn't fair to have him bogged down with both Wolf and the Vinnie subplot. I really don't like the fact that none of the gargoyles really seem to concerned that this is the guy who killed most of their clan, let alone that he seems to be able to stick around the mortal plane indefinitely while so many of their loved ones are just gone forever. I think there are a few growls and Hudson calls him "clanslayer" once, but it's really nowhere near the level of anger I think should be there.

American Dad> While I'm a little confused by Matt's question (You don't think the show will do well, but if somehow it does, then why didn't 'Father of the Pride" do well?), I think network support factors in as well, as Patrick noted a little. My impression is that "Father of the Pride" didn't have much. "American Dad" has it right now, in part because of "Family Guy". FOX bumped the show's time around (as is frequently their way) then cancelled it, only to discover that it was getting good ratings on Cartoon Network and the DVDs were selling like the proverbial hotcakes. Realizing that the show's lackluster ratings might have had something to do with fans being unable to figure out when the show was on, FOX ordered new episodes and a brand new show in the form of "American Dad". It remains to be seen if FOX will maintain its support for the show and if interest can hold up when new episodes aren't due until May.

So if you want to see "Father of the Pride" come back (though I think it's a long shot), your best bet is to hope for a DVD release (which is not unlikely) and encourage buying.

"Future Tense"> Fun ramble there. Unfortunately, I just can't remember how much I bought into Puck's illusion on my first viewing. I don't think I believed that this was actually how the rest of the series was going to be. (I knew "Gargoyles" wasn't beyond the occassional little shakeup in the status quo, but this was a bit much.) What i might have thought was that the skiff had the ability to travel through time as well as space and that this represented a possible future, not the only future. I know I knw, "time is like a river" and all. But we'd only seen that applied to Goliath going into the past (from his perspective) to try and change something. The alterability of the future hadn't quite been addressed yet.

By the way, I'm sure no one will have any trouble tracking down "Planet of the Apes" (the original, please) if they feel so inclined. But the X-Men story Greg mentioned? It's called "Days of Future Past". Back issues may be a little scarce and pricey, but there's frequently a trade or two of it available, for anyone who's interested.

While it probably wasn't an inspiration for "Future Tense", there's an episode of the 80s G.I. Joe carton that is kind of similar. When my boyfriend and I were first dating and I was telling him about "Future Tense", he told me about "There's No Place Like Springfield". I didn't see it until much later and it's not shockingly similar or anything, but both shows do revolve around an ellaborate setup designed to put the victim into such an agitated mental state that he gives up something he doesn't want to. If that sort of thing is your cup of tea, check out the G.I. Joe Season One Part 2 DVD.

Among the many things I like about this episode are that parts of Puck's vision did come true and Greg indicates more would in the future, even though some parts were definitely not true. I tend to prefer if prophecies, even somewhat false ones like this, turn out to be at least partially ture, possibly in ways the audience doesn't expect.

Demonskrye - [<---Jim Hill Media]
Monday, February 7, 2005 10:18:54 PM
IP: 146.115.115.131

We have a Future Tense ramble!!!
Lord GargFan
Monday, February 7, 2005 09:45:53 PM
IP: 24.11.252.213

It wasn't concept, Todd. It was execution. The downfall of "Father of the Pride" wasn't the real life misfortunes of Siegfried and Roy, it was poor scripting. They took a gamble that top-notch animation could make up for mediocre humor, and they lost.
Patrick
Monday, February 7, 2005 09:37:18 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

I saw an episode of the show through a download... and, um, well. I thought it sucked. So, I can see why it would be cancelled. You couldn't pay me to watch another second of it.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, February 7, 2005 08:59:02 PM
IP: 141.155.108.154

SIREN - Sorry about the error; I never watched the show, and so was ignorant about the precise felines.

But I still suspect that, even though Siegfried and Roy didn't mind, a lot of the television-viewing public still didn't feel like watching a comedy series about their felines after the incident.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, February 7, 2005 08:32:31 PM
IP: 4.244.18.184

...
Anonymous
Monday, February 7, 2005 07:53:56 PM
IP: 135.214.150.125

Todd>Actually, it was a family of white lions. Though I did wonder why not tigers? But perhaps with CGI, it is the same as hand-drawn. Spots and stripes are extreemly difficult to animate due to consitancy. Look how people nitpick on Lion King because of the number of whiskers. Design cost had to go into it and have a lot of thought. Perhaps a weekly show with animated tigers would have cost more then lions due to stripes. And if you see a pure white tiger, they look so odd. They have the face of the tiger, but since the stripes are gone, people still confuse them with female lions. Though I do believe S&R have white lions, they are obviously not a main staple on their shows. The tigers are. They have many species of big cats and several colors. Some they started first and some only they have. They have pure white tigers, normal white tigers, orange tigers, black leopards, regular leopards, ocelots, among others. They may have jaguars.
Dreamworks put it on S&R to decide if the show would go on. And they said yes. Regardless of what happened, a comedy show had nothing to do with them. They are preformers and any devoted preformer will risk it all for the show to go on. The animated show and the accident weren't related, so it was only natural it would be released.

Siren
Monday, February 7, 2005 07:31:30 PM
IP: 67.8.165.198

BISHANSKY - Yes, the "Future Tense" ramble was a great treat. (Only 10 more rambles to go.) Greg's remark about how S&P wouldn't let them do that sort of thing today only strengthens my suspicions that if "Gargoyles" returns, it should be in a different medium than that of an animated television series.

PATRICK - Another reason, I suspect, why "Father of the Pride" failed (I'm only guessing; I never watched it) was probably that, after a certain real-life event, most of the U.S. public most likely didn't feel too comfortable watching a series about Siegfried and Roy's tigers. (It makes you wonder what they were thinking when they decided to go ahead with the idea after the mauling took place.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, February 7, 2005 07:18:41 PM
IP: 4.245.21.125

Greg posted his "Future Tense" ramble. Good stuff, good stuff.

We're almost at the end.

Greg Bishansky
Monday, February 7, 2005 06:43:40 PM
IP: 199.93.82.188

I went to the a renn faire this weekend and had a great time. I bought myself a didgerdoo. I believe the episode Walkabout featured one, or at least the sound of it. It looks like a big bamboo stick. I'm practicing and so far after less then 2 days, I got the sound right, it's a matter of learning circular breathing. I am training myself to breathe out my mouth and into my nose, at the same time. Otherwise, there are pauses between each breathe. I'm suprised how much work it takes to play. It is a very simple instrument. You control the tone with your breath. But it is something you have to relax with, otherwise it will never work for you. My 6 year old daughter has been practicing too. She does great so far, especially since she got the sound right before I did :P So I'll be spending my evening learning how to breathe in a whole new way.
A band named Brother is what got me interested in it. They played before Seven Nations at a festival one day and they had a didgeridoo. I mentioned Seven Nations here before and if you like the rock/celtic/folk mix, you'll probably like Brother too. Click my name for their webpage

Siren
Monday, February 7, 2005 05:38:43 PM
IP: 67.8.165.198

Hakon/Wolf> Who said a descendent through marriage. Hakon must have raided lots of places, and well, probably raped a lot of women. I bet he has lots of blood descendents.
Greg Bishansky
Monday, February 7, 2005 03:00:16 PM
IP: 141.155.108.154

the last post was a reply to Patrick
Anonymous
Monday, February 7, 2005 02:58:41 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

You forget that Vikings aren't exactly known for being monogomous. I'm distantly related to Erik the Red. But then again, so is most of Europe... :P
Gantros
Monday, February 7, 2005 02:58:17 PM
IP: 24.20.243.55

...
Anonymous
Monday, February 7, 2005 01:19:39 PM
IP: 135.214.150.125

yeah, those are several of the reasons "Vendettas" is my least favorite episodes. the Wolf-Hakon connection is contrived, and Hakon slugfest is anti-climatic to "Shadows of the Past" but for me i also find Vinnie somewhat annoying, and it bugs me that Hakon had his axe and not his mace... Hakon's Mace (the one which shattered the Clan) is a powerful symbol and it would have been the coolest thing about "Vendettas" but it was forgotten.
maybe a better story would've been that Wolf got smart and researched Xanatos's records concerning the Grimorum and the Gargoyles and he went to Wyvern to see if he could find something to use to defeat Goliath. and he found Hakon's Mace. Hakon was freed by Wolf taking his mace out of the cave, and by the power of Wolf's hate. Wolf is somewhat possessed by Hakon and the story continues on from there.

but i guess hindsight is always 20/20...

matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Monday, February 7, 2005 12:29:51 PM
IP: 68.91.211.97

If "American Dad" does well in initial ratings, it will most likely be due to spillover fan loyalty from "Family Guy."

I can't name all the reasons that "Father of Pride" has not done well, but I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the fault lies with the lackluster story writing and irregular airing schedule. The latter thing alone was enough to kill "Futurama." Death by NFL pre-emption. Is it any wonder I don't really care for football?

Patrick
Monday, February 7, 2005 12:16:31 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Sven Haakon?! *LOL* ^_^

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, February 7, 2005 11:28:43 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

I've sometimes wondered just when Greg came up with the idea of Wolf being Hakon's descendant, especially in light of a moment in "Upgrade". Just after the gargoyles foil the Pack's bank robbery at the beginning that episode, Wolf shouts at them before retreating, "This isn't over!" - the same words that Hakon shouts at them after they foil his initial attack on the castle in "Awakening Part One". I wonder if that line was a deliberate foreshadowing of "Vendettas", or just a coincidence.

To me, the big problem with the Wolf-Hakon team-up was that it felt like an anticlimax after "Shadows of the Past". In "Shadows of the Past", Hakon's attack on Goliath took the form of preying upon his feelings about the Wyvern Massacre and the loss of nearly all of his clan, wearing him down slowly in a very subtle fashion. In "Vendettas", Hakon's revenge was just a slugfest between Goliath and Hudson on one side, and Hakon's ghost and a big dumb wolf-man on the other, much less interesting from the perspective of characterization.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, February 7, 2005 10:31:38 AM
IP: 198.209.226.130

Man, I hate TV,

Late last night, around 11 after the Super-bowl, I caught some the new series, American Dad.

If it does well, which I doubt, then how come it is able to do so and not Father of the Pride.

Matt Fews
Monday, February 7, 2005 08:15:04 AM
IP: 206.47.191.83

The Haakon / Wolf connection always seemed a little too contrived to me. It didn't have the same "now it all makes sense" feeling to it that the Owen / Puck and Anastasia / Titania revelations had. It just felt like a plot device created to make what was a rather silly storyline tie more firmly back into previous arcs.

It also means we must presume that Haakon left a wife and at least one son behind when he departed for what would end up becoming his last raid on Scotland. It would have been interesting to see Haakon Jr. show up during Macbeth's time, looking for the last of the Wyvern gargoyles. "Hello. My name is Sven Haakon. You killed my father. Prepare to die." ;)

171 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Monday, February 7, 2005 07:51:15 AM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Brian, let's hear it anyway, this topic that'll supposedly open up a can of worms. Can't leave us hanging like that.

Good to see actor/voice actor Clancy Brown getting a mention or two. As you can see I've paid tribute by having Wolf as my avatar. Not the best character in the series by far, but at least he had an effectively intimidating character design (post-mutation, that is. Thought he was kinda goofy-looking simply as the bearded, wannabe-Wolverine-hair-styled man), plus that neat connection to the Viking leader. Anyone watching Season 2 of CARNIVALE on HBO (or on The Movie Network, if you're in Canada) ? Well worth checking out the first season on DVD if you can get a hold of it for cheap, or better yet, as a rental. I think it'd be exactly the sort of thing a lot of Gargoyle fans would be into--a nice sized cast of characters, some of them in the moral gray...fantasy elements (magic, prophecies, etc), historical/mythological references woven into the plot (hell, the series takes place in the 1930s Depression-era). Quality television.

Are we getting the word on a SEASON 2 of Gargoyles soon? Am I remembering right, did someone say last month that they'd heard through the grapevine (or maybe directly from Greg) that Disney would reveal their plans...?

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Monday, February 7, 2005 07:29:48 AM
IP: 69.17.169.178

10th and now on with the show!
Vinnie - [tpeano29@hotmail.com]
Marquette, Michigan, USA
Monday, February 7, 2005 03:05:51 AM
IP: 64.112.202.193

Alex Garg> that's why I asked if this was a good idea, and apparently it isn't on several levels. So, now I know.
Gantros
Monday, February 7, 2005 03:03:44 AM
IP: 24.20.243.55

8th.
mascubanana
Monday, February 7, 2005 02:50:31 AM
IP: 160.39.105.72

7th.
Leo
Monday, February 7, 2005 02:04:48 AM
IP: 68.231.241.236

6th
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, February 7, 2005 01:32:33 AM
IP: 67.14.195.12

oooh 5th!
dan
Monday, February 7, 2005 12:19:01 AM
IP: 68.42.18.157

4th.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaMonday, February 7, 2005 12:12:58 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

3rd
Anonymous
Monday, February 7, 2005 12:04:27 AM
IP: 129.234.4.10

dang, forgot it was Sunday night!

2ND!!!

matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Monday, February 7, 2005 12:03:02 AM
IP: 68.91.211.97

Oh, wow - first!
Alex Garg - [alex_garg@yahoo.com]
VA, USA
Monday, February 7, 2005 12:00:29 AM
IP: 216.145.68.246

Gantros>> A legal document wouldn't convince Greg to read fics. The primary reason he doesn't read fanfiction is because he doesn't want to compromise his concept of the show should it come back on the air. Imagine the kinds of trouble that could come from having some fan screaming that Greg took an idea from one of their fics; and with a legal document signed... that would be all kinds of bad.

But Bishansky is also on target. Click the name for the FAQ link.

Alex Garg - [<--Ask Greg fanfic FAQ]
VA, USA
Monday, February 7, 2005 12:00:07 AM
IP: 216.145.68.246