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Gargoyles

The Phoenix Gate

Comment Room Archive

Comments for the week ending March 21, 2005

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On the same subject, I recall that one of the last episodes of "X-Men: Evolution" had Rogue smashing a petrified Mystique (or what appeared to be a petrified Mystique at the time - it turned out in a later episode that it wasn't, but the audience doesn't know that at the time and neither did Rogue), in a manner that struck me as even more unsettling than Demona's little spree in "City of Stone" (and that's saying a lot).
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Sunday, March 20, 2005 07:35:51 PM
IP: 4.244.18.135

I watched that TMNT episode today. There seemed to be a lot of "Terminator" influence there... right down to the imagery of a robot crushing a human skull underfoot. I was surprised to see such wholesale slaughter in a Saturday morning cartoon. The only person that didn't get killed was April, who somehow had morphed into some type of Sarah Connor figure in the "future" reality. Yet I can recall Greg Weisman saying that S&P today would never approve a script like "Future Tense" where main characters die on camera. So maybe that's only true of Disney.

And yes, it does seem like this TMNT storyline is based off the old comic books. I heard the name Lord Simultaneous mentioned... and I remember that character from the Palladium RPG "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness," which was based heavily on the original TMNT comics.

130 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Sunday, March 20, 2005 01:35:12 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

Hello again everyone! I've relisted my auction for the repainted Clone Clan. I took the advice of some here (thank you) and added bigger pictures. Maybe this will entice someone to bid. ;) Thanks for looking! Click on the link to the web site to see the auction.
Andrew Alvarez - [highlander3000@verizon.net]
Rancho Cucamonga, CA, USA
Saturday, March 19, 2005 08:02:59 PM
IP: 4.10.9.176

ENIGMA - Come to think of it, some years ago, somebody (I forget whom, unfortunately) mentioned that in the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comics, there was a similar story about a "Future Tense"-type adventure (though I forget the details); I wonder if the episode that you saw could have been an adaptation of it. (I also recall Patrick Toman once jokingly commenting, during a conversation about similarities between "Gargoyles" and the "TMNT" comic books, that fortunately they never had April fall in love with Splinter.)

As for Detective Yin's physical similarity to Elisa, practically everyone here who's seen "The Batman" is still (to the best of my knowledge) feeling pretty freaked out about it.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Saturday, March 19, 2005 06:47:27 PM
IP: 4.244.12.164

Spacebabie>Thanks thats all I wanted to know. :) I will indeed keep watching the show if they remade it. As for my cat he will too ;-)
Shara
Saturday, March 19, 2005 04:52:20 PM
IP: 209.179.202.16

Shara>>>I respect your opinon although I think I know what you might be worried about. In the Buffy the Vampire Series I did not have a problem with willow being gay. I had a problem when in nearly episode the writers felt like they had to remind us with that fact. Being Gay wasn't just Willow was about. She was a sweet character, very smart and got pretty good with magic.

That WONT happen with Gargoyles. Lex would never mention "Don't forget I'm gay." In every episode. They won't even mention his sexual orientation. The way I see it would have Broadway with Angela, Brooklyn with Katana and Lex wiould just appear mateless...to those who did not know. He would bond with a male, but to those not in the know his mate would just appear to be a a very good friend.

Lex won't appear different and the show will still be about a clan of gargoyles fighting to protect the city from crooks, while battling against Demona, Sevarius, and the Quarrymen aka the same show we all fell in love with.

Spacebabie
Saturday, March 19, 2005 04:08:17 PM
IP: 69.161.157.101

matt>Thanks. *L* I'd rather talk about my cat in here it's safer. Hehe. Agian I am not agienst gay people. My best friend is gay.

Kris >No one challenged my opinion they just called me stupid. Hehe so I'll stick agian to talking about my cat:P I am not here to anger anyone.

DPH >That's just me though I don't watch much tv. It has nothing to do about gay people etc. LIke I said my best friend is gay in fact they made me dress up as um a cherry (um yeah hehe) *L* for the gay parade in la and palm springs last year because my other friend got sick.



Shara
Saturday, March 19, 2005 03:44:30 PM
IP: 209.179.202.16

***Steps out of the lurker area and into the comment room***
Wow! Dead week this week. Well, I have no idea if my post will generate some commentary or not but I had some thoughts this morning and well, here it goes...
I was watching cartoons this morning with my sisters and I had some thoughts.
First of all, I know that a while abck there was some talk about a character from the current Batman episode named Ellen? Yin, a detective who looks like Elisa. Yeah, I saw her this morning and it totally weirded me out. It freaked me out even more that (I think) she has the same voice as Mulan (from the Disney movies). It was freaky...I felt like I was watching Elisa speak with Mulan's voice...way freaky.
Secondly, we watched Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (mostly cause we were bored and I've never seen a whole episode of the show). It was kind of interesting but anyway the episode reminded me of Future Tense. In the episode there was this new evil guy who was two bad guys that had merged into one somehow. (Sorry, I don't know the name(s).) Anyways, they had this device that messed around with time and they were planning on sending all the turtles and Splinter (the rat guy) into different points of time. This episodde followed Donnatello. He got sent to this future where Shredder had taken over. He had apprently dissapeared 30 years earlier or something like that and the turtles had split up as a result. Splinter (the rat guy) had died protecting the turtles and April was head of the resistance. The turtles all reunited and they had a big final showdown with Shredder. They got rid of him, but Michealangelo, Rapheal, and Leonardo died in the battle. Then at the end Donnatello dissapeared. (I think he went to another time/place). So...that's what I wanted to say. I know it's not exactly the same, but there's some similarities. (I'll also admit that it's been a LONG time since I've seen Future Tense and most of what I know comes from what I've read as opposed to what I remember.) I don't know if anyone else saw it or if it was a new episode or an old one, but well...ok...I'll stop rambling now.
***Walks backward out the comment room and back into the lurker's lair wondering if what she said even made sense***



Enigma:)
Saturday, March 19, 2005 01:17:06 PM
IP: 24.118.182.35

well said, Kris. i agree 100% with your last paragraph. its important for people to have reasons for their beliefs and for them to be able to defend their beliefs.
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Saturday, March 19, 2005 10:55:28 AM
IP: 67.65.131.68

Still being relatively new here (not to the Ask Greg FAQ, just this comment room), I'm sure I'll have many more thoughts about the series and Greg's comments once Season 2 is released on DVD. I haven't seen any of those episodes since they originally aired...maybe some of the repeats...some episodes will even be brand new to me. The bulk of The Goliath Chronicles will be, I'm even looking forward to commenting on those, though I imagine it'll mostly be complaints based on what people say about it (and I HATE when creators leave or are forced to leave a TV series. The show almost never survives and/or continues to be good).

Can't guarantee any opinions I have about the show will be all that interesting to those who've been discussing it for the last ten years, but I did post mini-reviews/questions from most of my Season 1 DVD viewing and a few people commented, so that was appreciated. I'm sure I'll also have stuff to say about the Ask Greg FAQ after I'm done with the series and go through it again, especially now with his episode rambles.

I was house-sitting this past week, they had a huge widescreen TV and surround sound system. I watched some movies (both old and new) that I missed in theatres and wanted to see big (Donnie Darko has never been shown in Toronto as far as I know, not with its limited release, so at least the big TV was an improvement over watching it on my 25 incher). I didn't think to take advantage of the set-up to watch Gargoyles, I think a 25" TV showcased the animation nicely and I forgot that it would benefit 'cause of the Dolby Digital (I was thinking it only had a 2.0 Stereo track). Plus I'd just watched Season 1 in December/January, so I wasn't in the mood for seeing it again just yet.

Discussion of controversial issues
----------------------------------

True, no one should be made to feel put down for their views. However, if you're the one or two people in the room with the unpopular opinion, you have to be prepared to defend your argument. 'Cause a lot of people, if not everyone, on the other side WILL challenge you on it. They'll ask the important questions, "Why do you believe the things you do? What's led you to feel that way?" If you can't stand up to scrutiny and defend your opinion effectively, then I recommend you either stay out of such discussions completely (that way no one gets hurt) or you re-think your stance if you can't seem to find a leg to stand on. Heated discussions don't make for comfortable message board cozyness, but some enjoy having them every so often. They keep things lively. Even when any of us disagree strongly, even when I see an opinion that makes me feel kinda saddened to see expressed, it's at least reassuring to see people feel passionately about their beliefs at least, that we haven't gotten completely apathetic.

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Saturday, March 19, 2005 10:21:29 AM
IP: 69.17.169.178

Lexington wouldn't "turn gay." According to everything Greg has said, he's always been so. It's just never been overly mentioned. So while Lexington might be confirmed to be gay, he wouldn't be "turning" into anything different than what he already was. No more so than Elisa "turned Native American" in the episode "Cloud Fathers."

:: wonders if that made any sense to anyone but himself ::

131 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Saturday, March 19, 2005 08:43:59 AM
IP: 68.170.199.45

If someone announces that they won't watch the show because of something they disagree with, then what more is there really to say, other than "okay, have a nice life"?

If people won't watch something because of their, shall we say, unfortunate misconceptions, then my life carries on as before.

Whitbourne
Saturday, March 19, 2005 06:22:02 AM
IP: 142.177.169.131

as a gay man, i certaintly don't agree with Shara's views, but i don't think she should be excluded from conversation in this CR for them. her views and actions are her own. if she wouldn't watch the show because Lex is gay, thats fine. and frankly i think its an interesting viewpoint to bring up in this Comment Room. a large group of people will certaintly share Shara's views and i think its good that we can talk about them preemptively. whether we agree or not or like it or not, these opinions do exist in this world and we must be tolerant of that. to tell someone that they should not talk about an interesting and relevant topic in this Comment Room simply because it bothers you is absurd. if Shara wants to express her opinion she has that right just like everyone else, and i for one think its better to acknowledge her opinion then to exclude her from the fandom. plus it adds some conversation to an otherwise slow week in the CR, lol.
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Saturday, March 19, 2005 04:10:08 AM
IP: 67.65.131.68

Shara - I didn't send you any comments, but I hope you (or anybody) do not bring that subject up again. The comments generated by your thought made me, at the least, feel uneasy about being in this cr until things cooled down again.
DPH
AR, USA
Saturday, March 19, 2005 03:59:35 AM
IP: 67.14.195.12

matt: For the sake of making one. I haven't seen any 3D models of Gargoyles objects/vessels, so I decided to make one just for the sake of making it. I do this as a hobby, and I figure that if someone can make use of it, then why not?
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Saturday, March 19, 2005 02:59:58 AM
IP: 66.119.34.53

Vertigo> what exactly did you make the model for?
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Saturday, March 19, 2005 02:01:01 AM
IP: 67.65.131.68

The model I mean. (sorry for the double-post)
Vertigo1
Saturday, March 19, 2005 01:52:50 AM
IP: 66.119.34.53

Todd: That, and its kinda irritating that nobody commented on the render I posted. Especially considering how much effort I've put into it.
Vertigo1
TN, USA
Saturday, March 19, 2005 01:52:20 AM
IP: 66.119.34.53

Todd Jensen>I just don't really post much anymore. well That and I am afraid too now. I don't want to anger anyone. I got pounced on for saying that I probally would not watch the show if they turned lexington gay. everyone starting yelling at me in here so I just am afraid to post anything in dissucssions anymore Unless it's about my cat :P . I mean it was my views my personal feeling it had no agressiveness toward anyone.
Shara
Friday, March 18, 2005 09:35:37 PM
IP: 209.179.194.15

MATT - Yes, I suppose that you're right about that. For now, I suppose that it's best to be patient. Hopefully things will perk up again this summer.
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, March 18, 2005 07:26:02 PM
IP: 4.244.12.149

Todd Siad: "I'm mildly surprised that so far nobody here has alluded to Hyena's line in "Upgrade", "I wonder if gargoyles taste like chicken." (And frankly, she's one character whom I'm certain would be keen on finding out.)"

Seeing as how Jackel wanted to crave up Goliath's face into his own graven image, I think he'd like to as well.

Speaking of graven images, Charleton heston stars in "The Ten Commandments" (Clicky my name for my review or go here www.geocities.com/oscarmovs/tencom.html) which will be shown on ABC tomorrow night. I highly recconmend it to every one. It's one of the best movies I've ever seen, even if I don't care for Heston's extremely madening (SP?) political views.

It is the traditional Easter movie... I, for the FOURTH year in a row, will be watching it on Easter Saturday (March 26th).

Taking a page from Todd's book (thanks for giving me the idea!), I have taken to watching several movies on certain days... that fit the day... "South Park Bigger Longer and Uncut"/"Canadian Bacon" on July 1, "All Quiet on the Western Front" on November 11, "Love Actually" on December 23rd, "It's a wonderful Life" on December 24th, and a certain documentary in September.

It's something to look forward to, I guess.

That is all I will say.

Battle Beast
CanadaFriday, March 18, 2005 11:05:51 AM
IP: 198.53.28.99

Todd> i agree with your reason number one, but i don't agree with reason 2. every couple weeks there comes a few days where there are literally dozens of posts a day and it takes a half hour or more to catch up what you missed. like you said, the tide waxes and wanes. plus mid-terms, and St P's day celebrations didn't help.
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Friday, March 18, 2005 09:04:42 AM
IP: 67.65.131.68

CRICKET - Yes, I've noticed the problem too. I think that a lot of it stems from two factors:

1. Almost everybody's busy with school or work lately.

2. We've analyzed the series over the past ten years or so to such an extent that there's scarcely anything new to say about it (unless new episodes get made - which obviously isn't going to be happening for a while - or Greg Weisman makes a startling new revelation at "Ask Greg").

Of course, when the tide goes out, it must eventually come back in. Hopefully, not long from now, things will pick up again. But for now, I believe that we'll just have to put up with the near-silence in the comment room.

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Friday, March 18, 2005 07:29:56 AM
IP: 4.244.12.226

*chirp... chirp...*
cricket
Friday, March 18, 2005 12:48:20 AM
IP: 67.65.131.68

Sssstupid busssss passsssss...
...all the way to the next ssstation...
St. Patrick'sss day .... BAH! >:-E

Sammy Snake
Thursday, March 17, 2005 11:47:26 PM
IP: 4.247.137.161

Happy St. Patrick's Day, everybody! (Sometime today, I'll be digging out my tape of "The Hound of Ulster" and watching it again, my usual holiday tradition for the last few years.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Thursday, March 17, 2005 07:23:21 AM
IP: 4.244.12.9

To celebrate today, I was going to drive all the snakes from the comment room. With gasoline prices as high as they are, however, I've decided instead just to buy them a bus pass.

Happy St. Patrick's Day!

133 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Thursday, March 17, 2005 07:22:37 AM
IP: 66.93.14.153

I know this has nothing to do with the current subjects, but I couldn't help but notice vague similarities between some of the opposing characters in "Beast Wars" and "Gargoyles". The most apparent one is that Beast Wars' Tarantulas and Black Arachnia are almost doppelgangers, personality wise, to Jackal and Hyena. With all their Upgrades, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to see them in forms like that eventually... I'm referring to the Transmetal forms, BTW, not the original forms
Gantros
Thursday, March 17, 2005 01:44:49 AM
IP: 67.189.1.250

CatSoup>> I've heard that film referred to as "psychedelic" and "Hello Kitty on acid," so that may explain things.
Article on CatSoup:
http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?postid=831449

Todd>> I'm fairly certain that Hyena is so disturbed that she considers no-one to be "People."
Thanks for reminding me of that line.

Uh, Quick! Where is the toilet around here?

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:21:05 AM
IP: 4.247.152.18

I'm mildly surprised that so far nobody here has alluded to Hyena's line in "Upgrade", "I wonder if gargoyles taste like chicken." (And frankly, she's one character whom I'm certain would be keen on finding out.)
Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 06:51:52 PM
IP: 4.244.12.1

JJ: I think another point is Catsoup. In one of the scenes the two main characters are stranded on a noahish ark. The third person is a pig. The two main characters literally open him up and take out a huge chunk or pork. They cook it up and the pig literally eats himself. I'm kinda happy this isn't like this because it would be like is abortion ok or isn't? Instead of abortion, the question would be the same species eating it self.
Dan
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 05:44:41 PM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Patrick>> Interesting point about advanced language usage, but according to the article I linked to below, you can ask a certain orangutan if he wants to eat McDonalds' food.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the author of the article isn't exaggerating or using wishful thinking, it sound like that orang has the intellect of a very young child or a severely retarded adult. The question -- mentioned in the article even -- is: would you be willing to call <i>this</i> orang a person?

Also, what precisely do you mean by "sentience."
"Sentience" can be a very vague term: take a look at Punchinello's comments about the subject at
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=719

or even the Wikipedia page about "sentience":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

I fear what you mean by "sentience" is roughly equivalent to what I mean by "Person," and that we've just went around in circles a tad.

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 03:54:41 PM
IP: 4.247.164.94

<< Can humans consider gargoyles to be People, or even "Like People"? >>
<< Can gargoyles consider humans to be People, or even "Like People"? >>

The biggest difference here is that humans and gargoyles have similar intellects, the same degree of sentience, and share a common language. You can't have a conversation with a chimpanzee and ask him if he'd rather order out for pizza.

134 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:49:14 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

All I can say...

Ape must not kill ape... ;)

I'll have to read that article later, thanks :)

Siren
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:33:19 AM
IP: 65.33.112.240

Forgot to add this link to a article about the significance of an orangutan who uses rudimentary sign language.
Is he conscious, in the human-centered use of the term? Does language trap him in a cage?

Thought Siren might get a kick out of this, anyhow.

http://www.orionsociety.org/pages/om/05-2om/Antonetta.html
JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:49:45 AM
IP: 4.247.152.80

Christine>> I figure that edible turkeys are at least as removed from the anthropomorphic ducks as bovines.

It's like the TaleSpin universe: an anthropomorphic lion who can repair aircraft, like Wildcat, is a totally different entity than a four-legged lion who has urges to hunt people. You would never throw ol' Wildcat into a cage at the zoo.

On the other hand, there is this creativity demon I had concerning "The Mighty Ducks: the Animated Series." I imagined the title characters ordering "Peking Waterfowl" at a Chinese restaurant, knowing full well what they were ordering, but unable to actually say that they wanted to eat duck. I figured that circumlocution was common where the anthropomorphic ducks came from. Semantics and all that.

---

So, what does this all mean, and how does it apply to Gargoyles? I figure that we have been talking about how members of a species can "define" the term "People," and the class of critters that count as "Like People." The many people (including myself) here that would refuse to eat chimpanzees do so because they count them as "Like People." Problem is, chimps may not consider us to be very "Like (Chimp) People," where "People" are the group of animals the chimpanzees can socialize with. These chimps may feel free to rend us to shreds if it is convenient. (I fear this is clear as mud. :-( )

This brings the obvious parallel questions:
Can humans consider gargoyles to be People, or even "Like People"?
Can gargoyles consider humans to be People, or even "Like People"?

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:46:00 AM
IP: 4.247.152.80

Dunno about the rest of you, but I've always been bothered by scenes in which Daffy or Donald chow down on roast turkey.
Christine
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:44:28 PM
IP: 4.62.21.76

Look familiar anyone? (click my name)

Note: Obviously its not finished yet, and there are definitely some things to smooth out once I'm finished modelling the rest of it. Texturing is not a priority right now for obvious reasons so I'll tweak that when the time comes. I will say however that getting this thing to look right has been a royal PITA, and that I will be quite happy when I'm done with it.

Vertigo1
TN, USA
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:30:24 PM
IP: 66.119.34.53

matt: probally a lion tearing apart a human or a snake devouring a human whole.
dan
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 10:39:47 PM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Matt>> Both equally. The human is consumed either way!

Perhaps if the bear were fond of humans and the simian were wild, I might find the bear's act slightly more disgusting (or frustrating, as the case may be).

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 05:27:49 PM
IP: 4.247.203.168

very funny...

let me ask you this though, what is more revolting/disgusting to you, a bear eating a human being or an orang utan or a chimp eating a human being?

matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 03:46:01 PM
IP: 67.65.131.68

Way Back Machine: Eating members of other species>> I was thinking of Matt's suggestion that it's more moral to eat members of species that aren't closely to you than it is to eat members of species that are. (Got that convoluted sentence, class? There'll be a test on this rant Friday >:-) )

So, say I was thrust into the TaleSpin universe. (If you never watched TaleSpin, you will have trouble understanding the remainder of this post.) To wit, say Rebecca, Baloo, and Kit were visiting Louie's when my freshly dead corpse plopped on the ground.

Then, Louie could whip up fried human thighs for Baloo and Kit, and to placate the irritable Rebecca Cunningham (who had to have significant motivation to visit Louie's dive), he could prepare lightly sautéed man liver with fava beans and a surprisingly nice chianti (Apparently he does have a secret stash of wine and spirits -- don't tell the authorities!)

But, poor Louie can't have any human himself. As an orangutan, he is an anthropoid, and is ethically constrained not to eat other anthropoids (humans, chimps, etc.)

Aw, what the heck, Louie. There's a lot of me to go around. Just confess afterwards to your friendly neighborhood gargoyle priest, and say twenty Hail (Shere) Khans and drink 15 Bloody Marys.

That weird enough for ya !??!

JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 02:46:50 PM
IP: 4.247.191.164

I'll take death... wait.. no, cake!
TigerShard - [tigershard@gmail.com]
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:50:52 AM
IP: 141.211.203.190

Just to add:

Before joining the Church of England, please choose one of the following options:

1) Cake
2) Death
Caleb
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 09:46:19 AM
IP: 81.154.219.82

You should join Church of England, Patrick. Just drink ten bloody mary's, and...you won't remember.
Caleb
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 08:58:23 AM
IP: 81.154.219.82

RE: Garg/Gargess--->
I don't think so, Tim. I don't like it either.:\

Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USATuesday, March 15, 2005 12:21:18 AM
IP: 209.74.24.190

"You may find it interesting to check out the sites..."
---
"You may find it interesting that you are still a dickhead."

That's what it was all about.
:)

Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USATuesday, March 15, 2005 12:16:19 AM
IP: 209.74.24.190

Todd > Yeah... it was an original sin.
Patrick
Monday, March 14, 2005 10:57:31 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

PATRICK - Whoa! You poked a badger with a spoon, and lived to tell the tale? Now that's truly amazing!
Todd
St. Louis, MO
Monday, March 14, 2005 09:25:23 PM
IP: 4.245.18.127

Yes, I confess, the word appeared in a TGS story that I co-wrote and probably a few others that I editted. I have also had impure thoughts, and just yesterday I poked a badger with a spoon. Forgive me, Father. I will say ten "hail Demonas" and drink ten Blood Marys. :P
Patrick
Monday, March 14, 2005 09:00:45 PM
IP: 68.170.199.45

A drunken bum on the street could run that company better then it's being run now.
Shara
Monday, March 14, 2005 09:00:22 PM
IP: 209.179.211.143

Ahem, i would much rather have ronald mcdonald as ceo of disney at this point.
dan
Monday, March 14, 2005 08:53:48 PM
IP: 68.42.18.157

Iger> If he ever sings:

"I've got no strings,
to hold me down!"

His nose would grow.

"I'm not a puppet, I'm a real CEO."

His nose would grow.

I'll stick with Pinocchio (sp?) for today...

Lord GargFan
Monday, March 14, 2005 07:49:31 PM
IP: 67.185.229.228

I recall that Patrick co-wrote "Lethe" with Crzy Demona aka Jennifer Anderson; she might have been the one who supplied the word "gargess".

(Speaking of which, one of the most amusing bits in the story for me was when Demona was commenting angrily about how male humans think with their hormones, an obvious poke at a certain trend in the fandom; I've sometimes wondered whether it was Patrick or Crzy who came up with that bit.)

Todd Jensen
St. Louis, MO
Monday, March 14, 2005 06:53:07 PM
IP: 4.245.17.115

"Gargess" - such an old school word, who brought this up? Meh...I don't use the word when talking about a female gargoyle (dialogue, IM, etc). But in writing, I guess I just like using a lot of different adjectives without getting repetitive. *shrug* It's on my "last resort" list.

"Garg" - actually, I have weird thoughts about that word, but, heh...it only makes sense in fiction.

Byrdie Fae - [pocket_avalon@yahoo.com]
NC, USA
Monday, March 14, 2005 03:03:52 PM
IP: 152.13.127.32

Re: Gargess. Not a big fan of that phrase, but I don't mind "Garg" or "Gargies" - "Garg" is simply the short form. As for Gargies, It's just kind of a cute twist on the word. Gargoyle has such a harsh sound to it-so adding a bit of cuteness like "Gargies" softens things a bit. Just like people call me Wingy, Wingding, Wing, Ding, Etc. No biggie. What can I say, I go for cuteness-then again, I'm warped.
Wingless
Monday, March 14, 2005 02:38:15 PM
IP: 69.196.243.7

Then why did you use it in TGS: Lethe? Or was that not you?
The Barracuda
Monday, March 14, 2005 12:55:23 PM
IP: 204.209.150.46

Count me among the people who can't abide the word "gargess" (or its alternate spelling "gargress") in fan fiction. Not only is it a phony word, it's a phony word that doesn't even attempt to masquerade as a valid word by following proper root/suffix construction. Consider such words such as:

lion / lioness
steward / stewardess
prince / princess

Each is a male / female word pair. In each, the spelling of the second word is made by adding the suffix "-ess" to the first word. Therefore, by inference, the properly constructed set of words related to winged beings that turn to stone by day would be:

gargoyle / gargoyless

Of course, the second word would then be prone to frequent misreading, since the only thing that differentiates it from the plural "gargoyles" is an extra "s". So to avoid that problem, someone conjured up the word "gargess" instead.

So now we have a word implying the feminine with the suffix "-ess", but what is the root word and male counterpart of "gargess"? Is it "garg"? If so, why are phrases like "the handsome blue garg" never used by the same authors who torment us with ones like "the beautiful lavender gargess"?

Then we come to the alternate spelling "gargress", for which the we must also wonder, where does that extra letter "r" come from? Is this an escaped "r" from a New England, where they "pahk the cah" and eat "chowdah" that's just hiding out? Perhaps this is an attempt to emulate:

tiger / tigress

But even so, it would be incorrect because the second syllable of "tiger" has an "r" sound, but the second syllable of "gargoyle" does not.

So whether it's spelled "gargess" or "gargress," the word doesn't pass etymological muster. And as such, I'm totally in favor of calling for a moratorium on its use.

136 days left until The Gathering 2005 in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Patrick
Monday, March 14, 2005 12:29:08 PM
IP: 66.93.14.153

Kris >> From the looks of it, Brian was imitating the spam attack.
StarCreator
Monday, March 14, 2005 12:07:38 PM
IP: 69.140.225.245

10th

Re: Bob Iger> I am SO disappointed. From what I've read, Iger is cut from the same cloth as Eisner. All business $$ and little creativity. Risk averse. He won't change anything that Eisner established. This is most likely not a step forward for Disney, and only time will tell if its a step backward.
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
Monday, March 14, 2005 09:27:59 AM
IP: 134.215.241.133

Whoops. Despite seeing someone else explicitly say they were seventh, I thought I was. Brainfart. I guess that's what a seven a.m. morning does.
Whitbourne
Monday, March 14, 2005 06:21:32 AM
IP: 142.177.158.68

Seven. All bets on the pass line win, two-to-one.

Kris> I suppose the sexism of the term is one reason. And I can just imagine what would happen if I were to call one of the fifty women in my medical school class "doctress"; the custodians would be cleaning my spleen off the walls, and rightly so.

My big tiff with it is more aesthetic than anything else, though. It's just a silly, silly word, and like Lynn Truss with misplaced apostrophes in piblic signs, it awakes a visceral rage that can only be fixed with a black marker and correction.

Whitbourne
Monday, March 14, 2005 06:18:18 AM
IP: 142.177.158.68

Re: new Disney CEO improving things

Hell, I hope so. One thing I wish he'd concentrate on--I hope he's able to find a way to fight the whole computer-animation-overtaking-traditional thing. I like computer animated stuff, loved ReBoot and Beast Wars/Machines as far as TV shows go. The Shrek films were fun (I'm not up to date on my CG-fare. Haven't seen The Incredibles, Monsters Inc., Finding Nemo, etc). But I'll really miss having the big summer epics. What was their last 2D effort, Home On The Range? Sad. Wasn't that supposed to be their last? IMO, Tarzan (despite annoying side-characters like the ape Rosie O'Donnel voiced and that goddamn elephant) proved that Disney could still put out a watchable kid's cartoon. I know 2D will never completely go away, I don't see Japanese anime going anywhere. I like some of the anime I rent, especially films like the stuff we get from Studio Ghibli (like the Miyazaki films--Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, etc). But it'd be nice to always have traditional North American animation available as well.

Speaking of Disney, my friend Lisa had never seen Beauty & The Beast, so we rented it tonight on DVD. She liked it quite a bit. I hadn't seen it since I was a kid, never owned the thing. Easily one of my top five favorites from Disney, probably could make #1 depending on what I'm in the mood for. In addition to wanting her to have seen what I consider an essential classic when it comes to animated film (and musicals, I suppose), I also wanted her to totally get the joke in the Halloween episode of Gargoyles. Hopefully will be showing her the DVD soon. She never saw the show even though she loved cartoons and is more of a fan of superhero comics than I ever was and ever will be.

Is this whole "Gargess" discussion a lot like the debate over whether female actors should be called "actresses" ? I learned this a number of years ago, but apparently the term "actor" refers to EVERYONE in that field and "actress" is kinda just a useless, potentially sexist term that came into use way back when to separate the ladies from the gents (might have something to do with the fact that for a long time in western [or at least British] culture, and most of you probably know this, men played all the roles. Women were allowed later, umm...17th century I think? No, too early?). I'm not sure if it's that big a deal, but I always try to remember to say/write "actor", just in case. Plus it just makes sense--we don't differentiate when it comes to female doctors, dentists, lawyers, scientists, etc. So it's kinda stupid to have terms like "waitress" and "stewardess". These days, I'm pretty sure the majority of restaurants and airlines use the all-encompassing terms "server" and "flight attendant", respectively. Most restaurants I've worked in do.

Brian >> Who were you calling a dickhead, just outta curiosity?

Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
Ontario, Canada
Monday, March 14, 2005 02:39:14 AM
IP: 69.17.169.178

Anybody know if Bob Iger, the upcoming CEO of Disney, is actually going to turn things around so that Disney isn't about cheapquels and more concerned with quality?
DPH
ar, USA
Monday, March 14, 2005 01:37:11 AM
IP: 67.14.195.26

7th!!
DPH
AR, USA
Monday, March 14, 2005 01:29:39 AM
IP: 67.14.195.26

6TH!!!!!
matt
O'Fallon, Mo
Monday, March 14, 2005 01:26:41 AM
IP: 67.65.131.68

Ho-hum. 5th.
JJ Gregarius
Tampa, FL
Monday, March 14, 2005 01:18:48 AM
IP: 4.247.161.79

4th!!
Shara
Monday, March 14, 2005 01:08:00 AM
IP: 209.179.251.64

3RD!!!
Brian - [Shendu42@hotmail.com]
USAMonday, March 14, 2005 12:48:52 AM
IP: 209.74.41.74

SECOND!
Siren
Monday, March 14, 2005 12:26:38 AM
IP: 65.33.112.240

FIRST!
Greg Bishansky
Monday, March 14, 2005 12:20:02 AM
IP: 141.155.108.154