anyone remember how high a rating of popularity the Season 2 vol 1 got? I missed it:(
Jade Griffin
Foooooooodd!!
posted @ Sun, Dec 18, 2005 10:41:21 pm EST from 71.83.112.202

Actually, Todd, is seems as though Demona would fit right in in L.A. even if it was never eluded to that she'd been there. Flashy, west coast vs. the budybody east coast. West has all that she'd want or need from a logical standpoint. New Yorkers wouldn't put up w/ her crap so she settled her company base in California, then branched to NY to best Goliath and the Clan. Just an idea:)
Jade Griffin
Foooooooodd!!
posted @ Sun, Dec 18, 2005 10:37:41 pm EST from 71.83.112.202

BISHANSKY - I agree with you that the real motive is revenge (and avoiding the prospect of facing her guilt) where Demona is concerned - and that the Clones' programming was as much Thailog's idea as hers. (And it would be like Thailog to want flunkeys who mindlessly obey his commands without question. Not to mention that the Clones were no doubt kept so deliberately ignorant as to serve Thailog without pay - not having to pay them would *definitely* appeal to him. :) )

What I'd really like to know is this: we know that Demona was the one who came up with the Clones' names (except for Delilah's, of course), and that they were named after places in Los Angeles. What I'm wondering is "Why Los Angeles?" Demona has never indicated any interest in L.A. anywhere else in the series (the only cities that she's known to have visited apart from New York are Florence and Paris - the latter twice, three times if you count "The Last"). One of those things that we'll probably never know, I suppose.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Dec 18, 2005 7:18:01 pm EST from 4.245.20.156

Iam so so so so so so so sorry if these makes no sense of if its so damn wrong writted that you insult me and all my family, but tis the best i could do.
Tood: iam not quite sure demona even remember wath gargoyles culture means. Its really evident that she was tired of beenalone, and every time shewas with someone that someone suddenly was her clan ( like Xanatos, coldstone and the steel clan in reawaking :S)I dont know if she really remember what makes life life, ´cause i dont think she had been feeling alive the last milenium, as Goliath said its hate wath keeps her alive now.
The avalon solution would be the best option thougth with princess Katherine in the island the situation would become a bit...bloody. And having Demona wandering aroud in a magic island full of inocent gargoyles,powerfuull feys and magic instruments would be like encaging the cat into the parrot´s cage. A body guard would be good enough, or 2... As for Goliath protesting about Demona gettin therapy "she likes it or not"... he would protest, i want to think, if it would be actually washbrain think, like a brain operation. But if he actually think that therapy woluld be a way to help her, to cure her and make her be what she once had been, i dont see why he woul protest. I fell into a deeph depretion like 2 years ago, after i loose someone really close to me, and attempted to kill myself. I failed, and, well, got into a hospital. I didnt like it, but well, they helped me anyway and it was the best think that could happened to me. Iam alive again...snif...AND I LOVE YOU ALL!!!...hahahhaa. No, really. Demona needs help, and if you say that to her she would ask you: " You kill americans, i kill arabians?". For her, killing humanity is really the best think to do, its ok, as Goliath thinks that protect them is the rigth think to do. So, yeah, she wouldnt like it at first, but sooner or later, she will thank it. Macbeth would need it too by the way.
La sopenca.
posted @ Sun, Dec 18, 2005 6:27:21 pm EST from 201.235.4.36

TODD> Despite what Demona may tell herself, I think it's all her blaming the human race as a whole for the Masscre of Wyvern and getting revenge.

I believe Greg said the Clones were Thailog's idea. Demona just didn't protest it. Also, remember, it was Thailog who programmed them.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sun, Dec 18, 2005 10:56:40 am EST from 65.33.202.237

One additional thought about Demona, that isn't a new thought for me, but one that I remembered while writing my commentary/review of "The Reckoning" last night. When I was writing about the Clones, I found myself thinking that Demona's decision to go for clones of Hudson and the trio that have been kept deliberately ignorant of anything other than unquestioning obedience over the original gargoyles (and being both willing and eager to get rid of Goliath's entire clan - apart from Angela, of course) suggests that Demona seems much more keen, ultimately, on preserving the gargoyle race on the physical and genetic level than on the "internal level" - that is, the things on the inside that make gargoyles gargoyles: their values, their culture, their beliefs, etc. (Goliath himself comments that if Demona considers the Clones her new clan, then she's truly sunk to a new low.) While her decision is not entirely surprising (she'd want gargoyles who aren't going to protest her genocidal plans for humanity), it does seem as if Demona's recipe for saving her race from extinction would, in the process, strip the gargoyles of everything that truly makes them gargoyles.

I find myself reminded of a science fiction story by C. S. Lewis entitled "Out of the Silent Planet" where the antagonist, a scientist named Weston, goes to Mars for the purpose of shaping it into an Earth colony for the humans to take refuge on once Earth becomes uninhabitable, as the first step towards preserving his species, planning on doing so by slaughtering the native Martians. The Oyarsa or ruler of Mars finally has Weston brought before him and asks him about his plans, then questions him about just what of humanity he's so eager to preserve; he's willing to sacrifice any individual human to achieve his goals (Weston even kidnaps Ransom, the protagonist of the book, and takes him to Mars to turn over to the native inhabitants when they request to speak to an Earthling - Weston believes that they want to kill or eat that Earthling and so decides to send Ransom to them for that purpose with an attitude of "Better him than me" - what he doesn't know is that the Martian inhabitants simply want to know more about Earth and have no hostile intent at all), and can't be merely valuing humanity's rationality, since he's eager to wipe out the Martian inhabitants that are just as rational and intelligent as humans. The Oyarsa finally concludes that Weston's desire to save his species is based more on a blind devotion to humanity's genes than anything else.

Could this be an accurate appraisal of Demona's goals as well, as far as "saving the gargoyle race" is concerned? That she's far more interested in the "biological continuity" of her people than in the true preservation of what it means to be a gargoyle? It's certainly an interesting question. (I wish that the queue was open again so that I could ask Greg Weisman what he thinks of that, but I'd have a long wait even if I could submit it.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Dec 18, 2005 7:53:28 am EST from 4.244.12.245

Bishansky> Those are pretty nasty ideas hidden as questions, eh?

"Did Sevarious upgrade himself?" that's a story in itself right there.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Sun, Dec 18, 2005 3:05:41 am EST from 198.53.28.99

Bishansky: It's funny. A few months ago, someone tried to start a discussion in here asking which two characters who never met each other in the canon Gargoyles universe would people like to see meet. I said Demona and Renard (and it wasn't me who asked Greg that question). I said I wanted to see a scene similar to the one in "Outfoxed" with Demona in the cage instead of Goliath. I think that before she could fake integrity, she'd first have to overcome the indignity of being in a cage (put there by a human, no less).

Todd: I think that if any of the Batman villains ever came close to being cured, it would have to be Two-Face. Simply because he was the only villain with whom Batman had a personal connection (as Bruce Wayne). At least, he was the only one I can think of at the moment. The last episode of the original Animated Series to feature Two-Face actually had a very good scene where Harvey was forced to make a decision without his coin, a decision that wound up saving Batman's (and thus his dearest friend's) life. And as far as Demona is concerned, I would like to know more about how she came to be in the Archmage's service (something that "Dark Ages" would likely have covered). I think that certain things (such as her dislike of humans) were spurred considerably by what she was shown.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"Anyway, they say she comes on a pale horse, but I'm sure I hear a train..."
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 10:54:04 pm EST from 69.174.1.148

An Arkham Asylum situation wouldn't work for Demona. Personally, I think she could fake compliance very well. I mean, how many times has Harley Quinn been set loose through legal means?

I believe someone once asked Greg what would happen if Renard captured Demona instead of Goliath in "Outfoxed" and he said, Demona can fake integrity with the best of them.

She is a survivor afterall, and knows how to adapt, act, lie, what ever she has to do to get what she wants. She's not always frothing at the mouth.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 8:11:32 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

HARVESTER - Well, I'd say that Demona was starting to go down the wrong path even before her time travel adventure in 975; she was secretly working for the Archmage and doing his dirty work at the time, remember.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 7:38:14 pm EST from 4.244.12.60

The thing is, Demona's problems are more psychological than psychiatric. The main difference here, as was told to me by two of my professors, is that the latter relies more upon the prescription of medications. That is, psychiatrists are authorized to dispense medication, but a criticism of them in both my psych classes was that they do this entirely too much. Honestly, I think Demona was fine until the incident in 975. I've never had someone claiming to be me from the future appear in a blossom of fire, then take me forward through time and show me that everyone I knew and cared about was either dead or eternally sleeping, so I don't know how I'd react, but I think it's a fair bet that she was troubled by it more than she let on, despite Goliath's words of encouragement. But then again, "Dark Ages" was never greenlighted, so "Vows" is really the only glimpse we have of Demona as a teenage gargoyle. So who can say what characteristics she's always had and which ones she hasn't (aside from Greg)?

Patrick: I was listening to some music on the way home from work, and realized something amusing. The lyric "the way I walk" appears in at least two different Genesis songs (and one is from the Peter Gabriel years and the other is from the Collins years).
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"It's not shameful to be illiterate...it's only a shame to stay that way." -Jeffrey Robbins.
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 7:15:53 pm EST from 69.174.1.148

GUANDALUG - Thanks for the comment. I don't know when I'll start on "The Reckoning", though I'd like to have my review of it (and the reviews of "Possession" and "Hunter's Moon", as well), all completed and sent off to you by December 31. I'll just have to see if I can do it.

BISHANSKY - Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately, until Gorebash completes his overhaul of "Ask Greg", I'm afraid that there's nothing that I can do about it.

Some interesting thoughts about Demona. In all fairness, I'm not certain that Arkham Asylum is a strong enough argument for the impossibility of changing Demona for the better through medication, since one of the crucial reasons why the Arkham Asylum crowd never get cured (aside from the fact that they're franchise villains, of course) is the nature of Batman's world as a gloomy, almost nihilistic place where no matter what, Gotham City will forever remain a bleak, forbidding, crime-ridden city and Batman will never be healed of the wound that his parents' murder inflicted upon him. By contrast, the Gargoyles Universe is designed as a place where bad things happen, but where there's still a strong element of hope (as Greg Weisman pointed out, Goliath doesn't patrol the city as a means of coping with the Wyvern Massacre, but because of his deep-rooted beliefs that gargoyles protect). So if there was an Arkham Asylum-like-place in the Gargoyles Universe, I think that it might have a larger hope of success than the Gotham City version (although it still couldn't be permitted to make any headway with the "franchise antagonists" until/unless Greg Weisman was ready to alter this character's role a little). But I think that the mere fact that Demona's been hardened in her attitudes by a thousand years of loneliness, hatred, and unadmitted guilt means that it'd take a miracle to break through to her.

DEMONSKRYE - That's an interesting question that you've posed. I think that Goliath would ultimately decide to speak up (and act, if mere words weren't enough) against the plans to "brainwash" Demona, out of an understanding that even protecting humanity from her wouldn't be enough to justify such methods (particularly after recalling his talk with Elisa on the subject in "The Cage" about how curing the Mutates wasn't enough to justify kidnapping Sevarius). It would be a difficult choice to make, but being a hero is about such things.

(I do find myself reminded of an episode of the "Justice League" animated series that I'd heard about, but never seen - and since this is second-hand information, thereby, it may not be that accurate - where the Justice League actually subjected the entire Arkham Asylum crowd, from the Joker on down, to just such brainwashing techniques; reportedly, the "reformed" villains were even more unsettling that way than in their regular behavior, which does sound much like Patrick Toman's recent post.)

Of course, the ideal form of imprisoning Demona (though one that would probably not be an option to the humans coming after her) would be to have Oberon and his Children magically confine her on Avalon - say, trapped inside a large gemstone - on the grounds that since Third Race magic helped make Demona into the threat that she is (the Weird Sisters' interventions in her life), the Third Race must help undo it. But even so, sooner or later somebody is likely to break that gemstone open and free Demona....
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 6:50:01 pm EST from 4.244.12.60

I wish these creativity demons would hit someone who actually wrote fan fiction during, say, the past year?

So what if, after tangling with Demona numerous times, some group of humans - or maybe the population in general - reaizes that she can't actually be killed. Prison seems like a poor option; someone who will live forever has all the time in the world to think of ways to escape. Additionally, there's the matter of keeping her incarcerated and reasonably cared for into what may be eternity. So somebody - the Quarrymen, Gargoyle Task Force, concerned scientists, or even P.I.T. Crew members who are sick of her constantly messing up their arguments that gargoyles are good - decides to capture Demona and forcibly "reform" her. Maybe through drugs, maybe through radical brain surgery, maybe through some Clockwork Orange type of setup. Let's say also that Goliath learns of this plan. What does he do? Can he offer a better solution to the problem of Demona? Can he allow the gargoyle who was his mate and is still the mother of his daughter to have her personality altered against her will? Can he justify helping her escape knowing full well that even he may not be able to stop her from threatening his family and all of humanity?

Feel free to grab this and run with it.
Demonskrye
Go bug someone who cares!
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 6:11:29 pm EST from 209.6.250.47

Harvester : Actually, I once read a fanfic series that was post-"Angels in the night", and still managed to have some very good stories. Apperently, the auther in question decided that the best way to continue a series that had lost its main villian, was to create several new ones.
Spen
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 4:48:49 pm EST from 207.177.11.252

*peeks in* Just this: New Review (by Todd Jensen - who else) 'Turf' posted on the GFW. Only a few more to go.

Now, I hate to be a bother, but what about the summaries promised? Come on, let's get a few more episodes from the missing list.....
Guandalug la'Fay - [guandalug@gargoyles-fans.org]
It has been said that the world is a strange place. This is not true. The world is a VERY strange place.
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 3:58:48 pm EST from 80.145.6.87

Frankly, I don't think you can medicate Demona, not to any useful degree. Due to her magical healing factor, I imagine it'd be something on the order of trying to medicate Wolverine of the X-Men.

Demona probably shrugs off the effects of anything that doesn't kill her via overdose in a few hours, and then you're right back where you started, assuming she doesn't also build up a resistance, rendering the whole exercise even less effective.
Aaron - [amgc_art@yahoo.com]
The Internet is for porn!
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 3:07:05 pm EST from 69.155.117.241

TODD> A bit of a heads up, but I just spotted a bunch of ideas masquerading as questions in ASK GREG.

http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8392
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=8391
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 1:01:29 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Todd Jensen: "Though it would be a significant anticlimax to have the Demona problem solved by simply putting her on medication and therapy"

Like that ever worked for supervillians. Two words: "Arkham Asylum". ;D

Todd Jensen: "(as opposed to, say, Demona finally realizing that she was the one to blame for her misfortunes rather than the humans, and that not all humans were like Hakon or the Hunters)."

If that ever happened, right after Demona had such a realization, she would probably then have a complete mental breakdown caused by over a thousand years worth of memories full pain and misery crashing down on her in one single moment. Demona is not exactly sane and such a realization, could push her over the edge into a catatonic state.
Paul Cousins
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 12:40:34 pm EST from 68.220.34.175

Better living through biochemistry? A medicated, happily loopy Demona who suddenly loves everyone? Sounds terrifying if you ask me. :P

14 days left to pre-register for The Gathering 2006 before the rates increase.
Patrick
"I got mine!" - Hagar the Horrible
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 8:13:37 am EST from 68.254.219.70

I think that it could be possible to continue "Gargoyles" past "Angels in the Night" - if with a considerable effort - since they'd still have the duty of protecting the city and its inhabitants; as long as New York has crime, the gargoyles are going to have work to do. (And I suppose that the struggle for acceptance wouldn't be entirely over, though it would feel repetitive to do many more episodes about it, particularly since the Quarrymen would now be in prison for a good long time and Margot would no longer be a gargoyle-hater; you'd need to create a fresh group of anti-gargoyle characters to replace Castaway, his team, and Margot!) There'd still be a lot of threads to explore (Matt's investigation of the Illuminati, the Weird Sisters continuing to hold their grudge against the gargoyles, Puck tutoring Alex, Goliath and Elisa dealing with their feelings for each other, etc.). But I do agree that it would be difficult to continue the series from there, precisely because "Angels in the Night" was designed as being the final episode in a "close-ended" fashion (as opposed to the "open-ended" tone of "Hunter's Moon").
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Dec 17, 2005 7:48:37 am EST from 4.244.12.203

Sorry, just posting again to include the sexy Avatar that usually accompanies my posts.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 11:43:10 pm EST from 69.174.1.148

Lord GargFan: Wow. I actually recently placed a bid for something on EBay, but this item actually had a picture to go with it.

I should contact this person and ask him what the last two seasons were about. I mean, the last 12 episodes of the Goliath Chronicles are non-canon anyway, but to continue the series after "Angels In the Night" would be kinda hard.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"It's not shameful to be illiterate...it's only a shame to stay that way." -Jeffrey Robbins.
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 11:41:35 pm EST from 69.174.1.148

Forgot to put the link...
Lord GargFan
Yes, I do know that there were only 2 syndicated seasons.
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 11:05:03 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

Reverting from lurker status to give a PSA:

Apparently someone on eBay knows something we don't: Gargoyles had 4 seasons in syndication!

Click my name for the link.
Lord GargFan
Yes, I do know that there were only 2 syndicated seasons.
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 11:04:36 pm EST from 67.185.229.228

Todd> Oh, I'm sure there'd be climactic stuff. Dealing from personal experience, it's hard to treat anyone who has no insight into illness or causes, and sure as spit Demona wouldn't want to accept any suggestion that she has a mental illness or a personality disorder. And hey, she could always be like my patient yesterday and leave "against medical advice".
Whitbourne
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 8:56:19 pm EST from 142.167.219.176

Yes, I hadn't thought of the fact that she'd be human during the daytime, and it might be safer then to dose her.

Though it would be a significant anticlimax to have the Demona problem solved by simply putting her on medication and therapy (as opposed to, say, Demona finally realizing that she was the one to blame for her misfortunes rather than the humans, and that not all humans were like Hakon or the Hunters).
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 7:54:23 pm EST from 4.244.12.6

Well, we have depot medications. Flupenthixol acetate injected into her thigh would last her a good two weeks. The medication's more just to calm her down enough to get her to talk.
Whitbourne
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 3:15:55 pm EST from 142.167.192.3

Todd Jensen: "The real challenge is going to be getting one of those things down her throat. I hope that whoever gets stuck with the job of dosing her is fully insured against the loss of a few fingers or even a hand. (Of course, they could always slip the drugs into her regular food.)"

Wouldn't it make better sense and be safer for the doctors, to give Demona medicine and do the psychothreapy during the day when she is human.

By the way, leading shielding won't work, the claws of a Gargoyle can tear through lead.
Paul Cousins
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 12:33:54 pm EST from 68.220.34.175

Hahahaha, that would be fine to look.
Anonymous
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 11:54:35 am EST from 201.235.4.36

I'd say that those would have to be pretty powerful drugs, to act against the events of a past thousand years (aside from the issue of whether human medicine would even work that well on gargoyles), though I'm not enough of an expert on these things to judge.

The real challenge is going to be getting one of those things down her throat. I hope that whoever gets stuck with the job of dosing her is fully insured against the loss of a few fingers or even a hand. (Of course, they could always slip the drugs into her regular food.)
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 7:22:12 am EST from 4.244.12.36

It works better if you have therapy balanced by drugs sometimes.

Clearly Demona needs some sort of antipsychotic med, though. I made a mistake on that dosage; it should be 25 mg of quetiapine, which is a good drug to start people out on if they've never been on an antipsychotic before.

And cause of this, I'm not going to screw up personality disorders or antipsychotic dosing on my test. Hooray!
Whitbourne
posted @ Fri, Dec 16, 2005 6:21:47 am EST from 142.167.198.32

i wonder if drugs meant for humans would work for gargoyles.. probably some would...

maybe Demona just needs therapy.
matt - [ewoks11@hotmail.com]
"To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." -Henry David Thoreau
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 10:56:57 pm EST from 68.114.195.212

Forgot to add antisocial personality disorder. Well, she breaks the law - heck, she tried to kill the entire human species. She's deceitful. She's only impulsive when she's angry, but she's definitely irritable and angry. Reckless disregard for the safety of others is a given. I don't know that she's particularly irresponsible, but there's a definite lack of remose as evidenced by her continued efforts to rationalize what she's done to others. She's definitely older than 18, which is a criterion.

BUT, she needs to have had some kind of conduct disorder present before the age of 15 (human years). Then again, her trying to learn magic on the sly from the Archmage probably wouldn;t have been all that popular, but I don't think that's enough to diagnose young Demona with conduct disorder, and that needs to have been present for antisocial personality disorder.

So, it looks like it would have to be precluded, but it'd be on my differential diagnosis.
Whitbourne
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 7:36:07 pm EST from 142.167.220.243

Well, here, I'll make a geek-out comment to balance it out.

So I have my psychiatry exam on Saturday, and in reading through my section on personality disorders, I started wondering if there was enough to make a diagnosis for Demona. She's definitely got a maladaptive pattern of behaviour and looking at the world that was formed in her adolesence and early adulthood, and there are two possibilities that I can see.

Borderline personality disorder? Maybe. She behaves frantically and angrily when she percieves she's being abandoned; witness her betrayal of Macbeth and her pointing a fricking bazooka at Goliath in "Awakening", and she seems to have a fixation on being "alone"; witness the password in City of Stone. She's definitely got a pattern of unstable personal relationships; she tends to either think that people are "all good" or "all bad" with little shade of grey in-between. I don't know that she has an unstable sense of self - she seems to know who she is, despite her transformations. She can be impulsive sometimes - more so when she loses her temper. She's not suicidal, though one could argue that she's somewhat self-destructive, but I don't think that's enough to meet the DSM-IV criteria. Affective instability? Oh yeah. Switching from happy to enraged at the drop of a hat. She's never given any indication that she "feels empty" all of the time, so we can't officially tick that, but she does lose her temper and get into physical altercations, and though one might argue some justification, she definitely has some paranoid ideation regarding the intentions of the entire human species, and she definitely has problems trusting people.

That's at least five of the criteria, and that's enough to make the diagnosis. I'd put her on quetiapine, at least 4 milligrams a day to start, and try and arrange some insight-based cognitive behavioural therapy with somebody who's not adverse to having a lead shield between herself and the couch.

Tres geeky, yes? Wish me luck on my test.
Whitbourne
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 7:31:51 pm EST from 142.167.220.243

*notices that there's only been one post here since this morning *

I hope that my "Arthurian-pedantic" post about Duval/Percival didn't scare everyone else from participating in the conversation. I'm sorry; I get so excited about this subject matter that I forget myself; I'd better be more restrained next time.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 6:11:33 pm EST from 4.244.12.172

Don't forget, AMGC voting for the month of November ends tonight at midnight, so if you haven't already, go vote!
Aaron - [amgc_art@yahoo.com]
The Internet is for porn!
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 5:56:49 pm EST from 70.245.204.152

HARVESTER - The evidence is that Duval got the Grail before he set up the Illuminati. He became the Holy Grail's guardian back during King Arthur's reign, when he went by the name of Sir Percival. He founded the Illuminati (according to "Ask Greg") about a hundred years after Arthur was taken to Avalon (since Greg dates the passing of Arthur to 542, that would mean that the Illuminati were set up in or around 642). And I suppose that over the centuries, Duval increasingly began compromising his principles out of the belief that it was the only way to fulfill the Society's mission. He probably still has to have some contact with the Grail (otherwise, I doubt that he'd still be alive, since he'd be over a thousand years old by now), but I doubt that it's the most harmonious of relations.

Indeed, Duval must have undergone a strong character change over the years, since Percival (his original identity) was described in the Arthurian legends as a rather naive young fellow (not stupid, just naive - he was brought up by his mother in a remote house in the forest and kept so ignorant of the outside world that when he saw a group of knights for the first time, he mistook them for angels). But by now, if he runs the Illuminati (a society that even Xanatos is only a lower-echelon member of), he must be remarkably shrewd, cunning, and machiavellian. You'd have to be in order to be that high up in something like the Illuminati. How much a person can change in over a thousand years.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 7:42:03 am EST from 4.244.12.186

Well, Demona strikes me as a firm believer in "tough love".

I don't think she'd ever harm Angela, but I think the phrase "You'll thank me for this later" comes to mind.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 1:42:39 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Matt> "Eh" means "whatever," or "oh well."

"Nad" is my misspelling of And,

"Donkey's years" means a long time.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 1:30:46 am EST from 198.53.28.99

Oh, and Todd: Another good point about Duval, which you've actually got me wondering about since I read it in your review of "Pendragon," was how he got the Grail in the first place, since he is running an organization that's hardly a shining example of honor and morality.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 1:12:17 am EST from 69.174.1.148

Greg B: I would think for the comic that Greg would offer the bare minimum of background for certain characters and events. I imagine most of the people buying the comic will be longtime Gargoyles fans, and they don't need much of that. Besides, it wold be a good way for those who want to learn more to buy the DVDs. ( ;

Also, the dynamic between Demona and Angela is a good one. But I would have to agree that if Demona didn't learn anything from the powerful revalation she had in "City of Stone, Part 4" (five seconds later, she chalks it up to Goliath tricking her) then Angela probably won't do much for her. I don't doubt that she loves Angela. But Angela shares her father's mindset about humans, and that probably won't change, just like Demona won't change her own attitudes towards humans. Besides, two episodes after Demona's little moment in "The Reckoning," she's back to business as usual. So all the right ingredients are there for a good story. I'm looking forward to seeing what Greg does.

Concerning Xanatos, I think perhaps most people read too deeply into the line "the feud is over." Xanatos said the feud was over, but made no mention that anything else was ending. ( ;
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75@gmail.com]
"It's not shameful to be illiterate...it's only a shame to stay that way." -Jeffrey Robbins.
posted @ Thu, Dec 15, 2005 1:05:33 am EST from 69.174.1.148

Battle Beast> As far as I know you can't change the order. The only way around it I've come up with is falsifying dates ;)
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 11:56:06 pm EST from 18.244.2.5

Ok its been confirmed that greg weiesman will be helping us promote gargoyles and the gathering at anime LA.

If anyone wants to join our small fan group at anime LA email me for more info. Costumes are a plus. We have a fan table and greg will be attending pannels and be at the booth.

Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
http://www.animelosangeles.org/
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 7:21:19 pm EST from 209.178.149.216

MATT - You've got to admit that it's appropriate that a gargoyle clan living in the United States to be a "melting pot". One thing that intrigued me about the post-Timedancer situation would be that the Manhattan clan would now have gargoyle members who weren't of Scottish descent - in fact, Katana and Fu-Dog aren't even European.

BISHANSKY - Good point about Demona; I should have kept that in mind. As for Xanatos, I agree with you about that (though I might add that I suspect that he'll want to keep a lot of his activities secret from Alex so that he won't have to face from Alex what he faced from Thailog in "Double Jeopardy"; Xanatos definitely isn't one to make the same mistake twice!).

While I believe that it'll have to be a long time before we get anything more than the most shadowy glimpses of the Illuminati, I'd like to see something of Mr. Duval. What still intrigues me about him is this: he's out to make things right, as Greg Weisman put it, but his methods include things like setting up the Quarrymen. How does Duval justify funding the Gargoyles Universe's equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan, with all the danger that it poses to gargoyles? Not to mention all the other shady things that the Illuminati are doing. I wonder if he must have become even more of a genius at self-deception than Demona (of course, he's had a few centuries' headstart on her). I admit that we most likely won't see that much of him for a while, but he could make a very intriguing and complex antagonist indeed.
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 7:18:03 pm EST from 4.245.23.232

Battle Beast> "Eh" "Nad" "Donky's years" whats all that mean?
matt - [ewoks11@hotmail.com]
"To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." -Henry David Thoreau
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 6:53:33 pm EST from 68.114.195.212

oh, hmm, sorry ignore it then.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 5:35:40 pm EST from 64.12.116.204

Greg> Eh. It's just what I'd like to see. Nad "Fan ficish"? Haven't written one of those in donky's years. Huh.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 4:59:41 pm EST from 198.53.28.99

Purplegoldfish> uh, tahts not a link to anything...

i was thinking, its kinda cool the Manhattan Clan really will be a melting pot Clan with members from Scotland, Avalon, Ishimura and Xanadu. neat.
matt - [ewoks11@hotmail.com]
"To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." -Henry David Thoreau
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 4:51:14 pm EST from 68.114.195.212

Fu-Dog: I found a couple of Greg's answers. He doesn't say his age, all he says is "He's not a puppy though" Here's the page: http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php You'll have to look through it.
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 4:36:41 pm EST from 64.12.116.204

to some extent i'm sure Katana can become that strong female gargoyle character for Angela to befriend.

as for Fu-dog, yeah Brook had him in 2198, but that doesn't neccesarily mean he had him for a while. i'd have to research and see if Greg said anything about Fu-dog's age anywhere, but for some reason i keep thinking he was younger than Bronx when he arrives finally in NYC, which would make him pretty young.
matt - [ewoks11@hotmail.com]
"To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." -Henry David Thoreau
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 12:47:59 pm EST from 68.114.195.212

MATT> Actually, I believe Fu-Dog will be a full grown gargoyle beast. Not a puppy. Wasn't he mentioned in the 2198 document? Well before Brooklyn meets Katana.

Also, why would Oberon leavel Boudicca in NYC? She's one of the "Honor Guard" of Avalon. I think things turned out fine, and perfectly logical there. I'm sure Bronx and Boudicca will see one another again.

BATTLE BEAST> " I was talking of someone who would come in to be a friend mostly to Angela, someone who wouldn't end up pairing (SP?) off with anyone. A strong female character"

I think Elisa has the "big sister" to Angela role already. Also, you'd have to establish where this gargoyle came from, and why she'd leave her clan to come live with the Manhattan Clan just to be friends with Angela.

I don't mean to be rude, but that sounds very, very fanficish to me.

"ALSO, I think it would be cool if Colds Stone and fire become more gargoyleish. They could have fake skin or something... so they are less robotic, when they join the clan."

I think they're cool as is. I for one would hate to see them restored to flesh and blood in any way. Would cheapen their "deaths". Besides, I don't think either of them, Coldfire in particular, would go for fake skin. "Alas, it has no scent, like everything here, it is not real."

TODD> "One problem about Demona: how do you top her "Hunter's Moon" scheme? It did threaten the life of every human on the planet, after all. How can you expand on that"

That's actually one of the things I love about "Gargoyles". It wasn't always about "Ooh, how do we top this scheme, this threat." It was about the characters and the drama that came with those characters. Demona would surely still be scheming, and plotting to destroy humanity (especially with the Quarrymen throwing more gasoline on to the fire), but the real meat of the story would be her conflict with the Manhattan Clan, her new (disfunctional) relationship with Angela (and unlike many fanfics, I don't see Demona giving up her quest for vengeance because of Angela). The characters, not the plot, drive the story. And Demona has a lot of character.

One thing, I really, really am looking forward to seeing, is Xanatos not being a boy scout like in "Goliath Chronicles". He's still a corrupt business man, I'm sure he'll still be manipulating the clan (just not harming them), and it's the gargoyles having to live with the guy who was once their worst enemy. He hasn't changed at all, his priorities have shifted, but his methods are still the same.

I haven't read one fanfic that ever wrote Xanatos correctly post-"Hunter's Moon". He always becomes their "rich benefactor".
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 11:48:02 am EST from 65.33.202.237

Kris: BVHE doesn't produce or own the comic, so they probably aren't up to giving it face time on their DVDs. But it also might be that the contract for the comic wasn't signed off when production for the DVD began and we'll see something in the next volume.

Greg B: What should we expect? Probably anything. I think we'll see the first issue dive right into the Gargoyles Universe with a comic version. It'll probably cover the basics, establish the Quarrymen and the Goliath/Elisa relationship. I would guess Timedancer is a little ways off. Maybe get some character development on Brook in so there's more meaning to the changes he goes through or represents when he pops back as Brooklyn: Family Man.

One thing that I'll be interested to watch is how Lex develops. Broadway is spending time with Angela. Brooklyn will have his family. So what about Lex? Will his story be one of his relationship with Fox and Alex or will he get into something else?
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 11:27:45 am EST from 207.206.239.98

Bishansky> Yes, I am aware of her. But I thought that was down the road, not three episodes in to a new season. I was talking of someone who would come in to be a friend mostly to Angela, someone who wouldn't end up pairing (SP?) off with anyone. A strong female character.

ALSO, I think it would be cool if Colds Stone and fire become more gargoyleish. They could have fake skin or something... so they are less robotic, when they join the clan.

Kaylle> Can you change the order your entries are posted, or do they only come newest to oldest?

Kaylle> I agrre with everything you said about the DVDs.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 10:02:12 am EST from 198.53.28.99

BISHANSKY - Actually, Greg said that the episode immediately after "The Journey" might have been the one about Alex being kidnapped, with "Timedancer" being the one directly after that.

One problem about Demona: how do you top her "Hunter's Moon" scheme? It did threaten the life of every human on the planet, after all. How can you expand on that (unless Demona found a way of going back in time to wipe out the first humans, and that plan would obviously be foredoomed to failure because history is immutable in the Gargoyles Universe - not to mention that she doesn't have access to the Phoenix Gate)? Though, now that the humans know that the gargoyles exist and are clearly unhappy about it, she has all the more incentive to come up with further schemes to wipe out the species.

DEMONSKRYE - I think that, when Greg mentioned how the elves had already been brought in, he was referring to Oberon's Children in general (who are supposed to be "elves/fairies" in a sense) rather than to the specific "elves of Santa's workshop".

And I'm very interested in seeing how Santa would be handled in "Gargoyles", simply because he does seem - at first sight, at least - a little incongruous for a series with the sort of atmosphere that "Gargoyles" has. I agree that it'd most likely be a portrayal that goes back to the roots of the legend rather than just the fat jolly guy in the red suit - maybe something like the portrayal of Father Christmas in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe", who gives the children the tools that they'll need to help defeat the White Witch rather than toys. (As I said once, I certainly hope that the story will be something better - and less predictable - than Jackal and Hyena trying to hijack Santa's sleigh in revenge for all the coal and sticks that they'd gotten in their stockings as kids, or Demona attempting to shoot Santa down with a tone of "If I can't wipe out the humans, at least I can ruin Christmas for them".)

I watched "Metamorphosis" and "The Mirror" on the DVD last night, as well as the interview segment with the cast and crew. One interesting thing about "The Mirror": during the period when Puck's turned all the humans in Manhattan into gargoyles, the statue of Prometheus at Rockefeller Center (where they have the big showdown with Demona) still looks human. (Not to mention Demona heading into the No. 42 subway - I still wonder if there was a Douglas Adams fan on the production team.)

To close, here's a Shakespeare quote that I find suits a couple of characters in "City of Stone" beautifully, from "Richard II", Act V, Scene i. Richard II has just been deposed by his cousin, Henry Bolingbroke (afterwards Henry IV), in partnership with the powerful Earl of Northumberland. As the Earl is preparing to hustle Richard off to a remote castle to spend the rest of his life (which won't be very long) imprisoned there, Richard foretells how the Earl and Henry IV will soon be falling out:

Thou shalt think,
Though he divide the realm and give thee half,
It is too little, helping him to all;
He shall think that thou, which knowest the way
To plant unrightful kings, wilt know again,
Being ne'er so little urg'd, another way
To pluck him headlong frm the usurped throne.
The love of wicked men converts to fear,
That fear to hate, and hate turns one or both
To worthy danger and deserved death.

It recently struck me that that does sound a lot like the unravelling of the partnership between Duncan and Gillecomgain in "City of Stone Part Two".
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 8:09:24 am EST from 4.244.12.187

I really can't complain about the Season 2 Part 1 DVD set, it's awesome that we even got it...but does anyone else think they missed a major opportunity to advertise for the comics? I'm sure Buena Vista Home Entertainment would've let Greg/Slave Labor Graphics/Creature Comics put up a one-page ad for it that you could click on in the bonus features section. They could've used that one piece of promo art they have (Elisa plus Goliath with holes in his wings), a tentative debut date (June 2006), and maybe some written words from Greg over the graphic about how the comic would be continuing the series from the end of the forthcoming Season 2 Part 2 set (wouldn't hurt to be optimistic on the Part 1 set itself).
Kris - [plekopleko@hotmail.com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 6:16:42 am EST from 69.17.169.178

Kayle> thats what i meant when i said i know its not that simple. i agree with you.

new female garg in NYC> i still think Oberon should've left Boudicca in NYC during The Gathering. not very fair for Bronx's mate to be seperated by a magical realm where time travels differently... not like you'd have to add another voice actor or anything... *shrugs* oh well, guess Oberon did tell Princess K he was only gonna borrow Boudicca, though i'm sure Princess K would've understood...

it'll be awesome for Brook to bring home young 'goyles! imagine a puppy Beast and gargoyle kids! it'll add a lot to the dynamics of the Clan.
matt - [ewoks11@hotmail.com]
"To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." -Henry David Thoreau
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 2:48:59 am EST from 68.114.195.212

Battle Beast> There are a bunch of gargoyles fans on LJ, including me... Being the shy person I am, I don't talk to all of the others, but they are there ;). What's your question?

Matt> I wouldn't want to rely completely on the idea that new fans will go out and buy the DVDs to catch up on past storylines. I would think that Greg's goal is to appeal to as many people as possible, not just current fans, and if we expect people to go out and buy $50 worth of DVDs, gambling that they'll like them, before they are able to understand the comic, I don't think we'll attract very many of them. I don't think Greg should recount everything, of course, but I expect the comic will work on multiple layers. The newcomer will be given enough info to understand what's going on in a given story, but the longtime fan will pick up on more things and be able to put them in context.

Okay, back to work for me. Sigh... finals suck.
Kaylle - [kaylle at ladyavalon dot com]
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 1:53:19 am EST from 18.244.2.5

BATTLE BEAST> "I would also like to add a new Gargoyle character to the mix in Manhattan ASAP. Just one more. Possibly a female."

You are aware of Katana, right?
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 1:04:12 am EST from 65.33.202.237

He didn't say he was dropping Demona. He said something more to the affect of her licking her wounds after her big defeat in "Hunter's Moon", but she would be back and turn her attention towards Angela. Greg still had a lot of plans for Demona.

As for new villains, we'd probably see some. Obviously, we have John Castaway now. We also have Thailog becoming the Big Bad. Coldsteel and Coyote. The Ultra Pack. The Illuminati. Queen Mab.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 1:02:58 am EST from 65.33.202.237

anyone here use livejournal? jus twondering, I have a question if you do...
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 12:54:37 am EST from 198.53.28.99

I, for one, would like to see Greg start off re-introducing the characters quickly, and then picking up the story as we left off. I would also like to add a new Gargoyle character to the mix in Manhattan ASAP. Just one more. Possibly a female.

Give Demona a break. That fine. Bring in a new enemy. Someone truly evil. But keep referencing old episodes and plot ideas.
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Wed, Dec 14, 2005 12:21:24 am EST from 198.53.28.99

i agree, with the DVDs coming out Greg should be able to jump back in. fans of the series will buy the comic and new fans of the comic will buy the DVDs to get backstory. win-win situation. i know its not that simple, but there is no point is using the first few issues of the comic being repetitive...
matt - [ewoks11@hotmail.com]
"To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." -Henry David Thoreau
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 10:04:44 pm EST from 68.114.195.212

Gore> Thanks for the links. I did the sarches at work, which may have thrown me off when looking at the results or something.
So it would seem, just from the archives, that we don't know much about the nature of Santa Claus in the Gargoyles Universe, aside from a rather cryptic comment about Greg having already brought in the elves. (Thoughs?) I know in past discussions, the room has speculated that, based on the more historically accurate portrayal of MacBeth we got, the Gargoyles version of Santy might hearken back to some of the earlier lore about St. Nicholas. There are lots of interesting stories tied to the pre-Santa Claus St. Nick, many of which aren't strictly religious in nature.

Comic Stories> Totally agree that the start of Timedancer will likely have to wait. There's enough to get new readers caught up on without having one of the characters age 20 years (biologically) in a matter of minutes. As for the first issue, I imagine Greg will want to try to give us old fans something new and not just a total rehash of "The Journey". So is it possible to restate everything said in "The Journey" in an entirely new story without it feeling like a retreading of already covered ground? Heck, can you fill an audience in on everything from "Awakening" up to "Hunter's Moon" and still have room for a new story? I'm guessing Greg has an idea of how to address all of this, but I'm not sure what it is. Very curious to see what he does.

Here's a thought that just occurred to me: What if the comics start right AFTER Brokklyn's timdancing adventures? That way, we would know what's going on with a character we're familiar with, but the new audience wouldn't be confused by younger Brooklyn suddenly changing into older Brooklyn before they really even know who he is. I've been thinking for a while what the "Clan Building" title/concept we've been given for the first story arc could mean. Well, maybe it refers to Brooklyn showing up suddenly adding a mate, two kids, and a new gargoyle beast to our happy Manhattan family. This is probably way off, but maybe it's worth talking about.
Demonskrye
Please sign for delivery of one pear tree containing partridge.
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 10:02:09 pm EST from 209.6.250.47

Oh, yeah, Brooklyn would need a few issues to be reintroduced, while things are greatly helped by the series being released on DVD, some new readers may not be as willing to invest. I'd like a mix of jumping in with a few spots of fleshed-out allusions/flashbacks to the past.
Asatira
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 9:31:55 pm EST from 66.168.244.117

We may have discussed this in the past, but, hey. This isn't a "What Should Greg Do" sorta thing, but what do you think we should expect for the first year of the comic.

I think it's a safe bet that an adaption of "The Journey" will be the first issue. But, what should come after. Greg said at the 2001 Gathering that the very next episode if he hadn't left would have been "Timedancer".

So, think Brooklyn needs to be re-established as a character for a while before he's changed? Or do you think "Timedancer" would serve as an appropriate re-introduction to Brooklyn.

What about Demona? Greg also once said, he was going to give her a bit of a rest for a little while after "Hunter's Moon". Think she'd need to be brought in again sooner, she is a major character and these will be the first time we've seen these characters in a decade.

What about Greg's idea to make Thailog the next Big Bad? I love the idea, but am afraid that precious page space would need to be used to flashback to his origin, and his time with Demona.

Basically, how much time do you think needs to be used to re-establish everything, or should Greg just jump right back into it all.

Personally, I'd hope he just jumps back in ;)
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 8:27:06 pm EST from 65.33.202.237

Well, we finally picked up our set on Sunday. My gf was in here a few days ago under the name Yami Raven. She pimped the DVD's at gaiaonline, and over a dozen people who hadn't heard about the DVD's responded, several saying they'd buy them immediately. Yay! Anyway, we're working our way through in order, seeing as she hasn't seen most of the series. We're through Legion thus far.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 8:17:30 pm EST from 68.58.250.87

So now that the room's cleared, how about mentioning your new discussion topic idea, Bishansky?
Todd Jensen
"Gargoyles" - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 6:27:28 pm EST from 4.244.12.237

Demonskrye: do a search for just "santa" and you'll find entries.

The quick answer is: Yes, Santa Clause exists in the Gargoyles Universe, but Greg has yet to reveal any plans about the fat man.

Relevant AG entries are:
http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=6361
http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=6405
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 4:37:06 pm EST from 207.206.245.92

For anyone in the california area next month.

There is a small anime convention in LA.

Crazydem and I are going to be attending and they have given us a small fan booth to help promote gargoyles.
We might get Greg W to join us.

Your welcome to come and help us suport the show and the gathering convention. Come in costumes or just bring yourself.

Click on link for more info on where it is.
Shara - [Jeanie54_2000@yahoo.com]
http://www.animelosangeles.org/
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 4:04:33 pm EST from 209.178.145.84

Tenth again.
Spen
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 3:06:57 pm EST from 207.177.11.252

Todd, could you maybe link to the Ask Greg question/s regarding ol' Kris Kringle in the Gargoyles Universe? I tried searching under "Santa", "Claus", "St. Nicholas", and "Christmas", but no dice. Now that i think about it, has Greg actually said anything regarding Mr. Claus in Ask Greg or was it an in-person comment or even just fan guessing? It's been so long since we talked about it I can't remember.
Demonskrye
Happy Holidays
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 2:50:34 pm EST from 67.100.23.24

8th
Phil - [p1anderson@go.com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 2:11:43 pm EST from 69.129.121.95

Lucky number 7!
Purplegoldfish - [skydragonn@aol.com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 2:05:34 pm EST from 64.12.116.204

Sixth!!!
BrooksBabe
"Eh, educational stuff. Me, I'd rather watch things explode." --Rattrap
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 2:03:06 pm EST from 64.228.49.108

Fifth!
Leo
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 1:57:41 pm EST from 68.231.241.236

Fourth, I guess.
Jurgan - [jurgan6@yahoo.com]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 1:41:25 pm EST from 169.150.128.50

3RD!!!!!!

thanks Gorebash for adding the link, much obliged...
matt - [ewoks11@hotmail.com]
"To know that we know what we know, and that we do not know what we do not know, that is true knowledge." -Henry David Thoreau
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 1:40:21 pm EST from 68.114.195.212

2nd?
IRC Goliath - [goliath1 [at] pacbell [dot] net]
I don't consider myself to be a prophet... although I do have prophetic moments
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 1:36:14 pm EST from 209.234.142.80

There you go, a "last week's comments" link is now available. The changes I had to make to the script earlier for the unordered list of archived comment rooms helped make adding this a bit easier.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 12:01:33 pm EST from 207.206.245.110

Archive index is working again. I was assuming the order in which files were being listed would be in chronological order. This worked in previous PHP versions, but not as of at least 4.4.0. So I had to alter the script to do sorting after the list of archived CRs is read in.

Battle Beast: I'll play around with the security code system a bit to see what I can do. It might be an issue with cookies not being set properly.

"Last Week's CR" link? I'll see what I can do.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 11:25:23 am EST from 207.206.245.110

New build of PHP was installed on the server yesterday. That didn't have anything to do with the comment room not wiping, but that is why the archive page is all screwed up. I'm working on fixing it.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 10:55:07 am EST from 207.206.245.110

No clue why it didn't wipe 2 days ago. Was away from my machine.

Oh well.
Gorebash - [gorebash@s8.org]
posted @ Tue, Dec 13, 2005 10:48:35 am EST from 207.206.245.110