Matt > I don't think Charisma was talking about them splitting up in any kind of permanent sense...just wondering where they'd go if they had to split up temporarily. It's an unlikely hypothetical, but there's no harm in entertaining it.

Also, I don't think the phrase "Brooklyn's family" is nonsensical. In a normal situation, it would be, but since Brooklyn, Katana, and Nashville will have been timedancing together, without the rest of the clan, for quite some time, without the rest of the clan around, it's pretty likely that they'll feel a much closer attachment to each other than they normally would had they simply lived all those years in Manhattan with the rest of the clan in a more traditional way. I think when they initially return and for maybe a few months/years afterwards, they'll almost be like their own little mini-clan inside the larger Manhattan clan...and personally, I don't see how this is a bad thing. Yes, it's different from how gargoyle life normally is, but so what? Most gargoyles don't go timedancing for 40 years either. I think Tachi will be a different story, however. She'll likely be raised in a more traditional way, viewing all of the clan members as her mothers and fathers and caring about them all more equally.

Before Angela arrived from Avalon, Brooklyn, Lexington, and Broadway were a "trio" within a larger clan. They felt differently towards each other than they felt towards Hudson or Goliath...and even before they awoke in Manhattan, they probably had a stronger bond with each other than their other rookery brothers and sisters. I don't think there's anything wrong with suggesting that there can be small groups inside a larger clan. There can be a small family within a larger family, or clan.

Just IMO.
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Apr 20, 2008 2:32:48 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Keep in mind that the Stone of Destiny is inherently "magical" as well. It doesn't seem to be mortal magic or Third Race magic, so it leads me to believe there exists a third, more spiritual form of magic in the Gargoyles Universe.

And the only thing I see as more unlikely then the Manhattan Clan leaving Castle Wyvern is them leaving it and splitting up. They are one family. This talk of "Brooklyn's family" is nonsensical. Goliath and Lex and Hudson and the rest are part of Brook's family. Thats what makes them a clan.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sun, Apr 20, 2008 2:05:05 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

I'd like to believe the Iron Clan robot was there for a specific purpose (like, Xanatos expecting a member of the Third race), but if that's the case, why not send two iron clan robots instead of one iron and one steel? For that matter, why not send 3 or 4 iron clan robots, just to be safe? I dunno.

Also, there's something else I've been thinking about: the Coyote Diamond. Will it become relevant again, or was it used solely to make Coyote stronger and now we won't hear about it again? It would be interesting if Coyote got destroyed and one of our heroes took and kept the diamond, and then it became important in another storyline down the road.
Rebel
posted @ Sun, Apr 20, 2008 1:01:41 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Or maybe the Iron Clan robot was there to provide some visual variety.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sun, Apr 20, 2008 8:23:21 am EDT from 4.244.214.44

Maybe Duval doesn't know how many others of his cabinet that Arthur has picked up, maybe he's expecting Merlin or something (Would Merlin be vulnerable to iron?). So he told Xanatos to send in an iron clan robot?

Is that a possibility?

Or is it just Greg having the Iron Clan robot cameo for us, the long-time fans who would actually know what the heck it was, and to show how Xanatos never wastes anything. Maybe that's how Xanatos will prove his 'loyalty' to the clan.

"See, I used that iron clan robot from a million years ago! I never waste ANYTHING. You have nothing to fear! I've still got leftovers in my fridge from 6 months ago when I went out for sushi!"
Aldrius
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 9:42:22 pm EDT from 207.112.36.5

Actually, David's comment lends credence (perhaps) to the idea that the Illuminati wants Arthur, not the Stone, if the Iron Clan robot hints at some sort of connection with Avalon/its magic. Who in London is most intimately tied to Avalon, let's ask ourselves....
Meg
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 9:25:58 pm EDT from 70.88.161.126

There seems to be a lot of talk about the Manhattan Clan being back at war with Xanatos. I personally don't believe that will happen for a minute. Xanatos has proven in the past to be nothing short of a genius and master tactician. He knows that Hudson and Lex are going to be guarding the Stone of Destiny. Can anyone here say that they think Xanatos would arbitrarily risk war with the clan again by sending Coyote, and both Steel and Iron Clan robots, all of which are instantly linked to him without there being a good reason? It seems to me that Xanatos wants the Manhattan Clan to know he is behind this. That in turn makes me think he has some trick up his sleeve to make himself come out smelling like roses to the Manhattan Clan.

A much more interesting question seems to me why an Iron Clan robot? Xanatos would have had to make that robot after Oberon's attack since the originals were destroyed and also much larger then this model. We know Xanatos is not one to arbitrarily do something, so that makes me wonder, what interference is Xanatos expecting from the Third Race?
David - [souiofangelus at aol dot com]
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 7:39:36 pm EDT from 205.188.117.134

Charisma> I don't think any of the clan would be foolish enough to try and hide out at Elisa's. Thats like the first place Xanatos would look.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 7:39:28 pm EDT from 86.41.196.37

Charisma > I think, after #7 - 9 is over, Lexington will trust Macbeth a lot more than he did before. So, I'd imagine Lexington would go to Macbeth's.

I'd imagine Angela would want to be with Goliath, and Goliath would want Angela with him. Naturally, Broadway would want to be with Angela and Angela would want to be with Broadway, so I think the three of them could end up together at Renard's or Elisa's.

I agree with your assessment about Hudson and Bronx. I think they'd stay at Robbins'. Actually, Lex might opt to go here as well, since I dunno if he'd want to be totally alone, and he also might not want to be around any of the rest of the clan (what with Brooklyn having a family, Broadway and Angela being mated, and Goliath having Elisa). So, he'd probably be most comfortable around Hudson.

As far as Brooklyn and co., I could see them going to the Labyrinth. At the end of "Kingdom", it seemed like Talon and Brooklyn were on pretty good terms and I think Talon would be fairly accommodating.

Anyway, that's what I think. Good question. If the clan could go to places outside of the United States, I could see Lex going to London, and Brooklyn and co. possibly venturing to Japan where Katana is from. Angela and Bronx would want to go to Avalon, and Broadway would certainly go with her. Goliath would probably be torn between going with his daughter or staying near Elisa, but I think ultimately he'd choose Elisa. I dunno about Hudson.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 7:24:39 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

One of my more bizarre ideas was that the gargoyles might return to the clock tower, if it was finished in time (though I doubt it will), on the grounds that none of their enemies would expect them to head back to their original turf. But I don't seriously expect that to happen (or for them to inhabit that roof filled with gargoyles from "The Thrill of the Hunt", for that matter).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 7:07:58 pm EDT from 4.245.17.99

Given the fact that the Clan JUST moved back to the Eyrie and that Castle Wyvern is their ancestral home and we also know the Manhattan Clan will still reside there in 2198, I really, really don't expect the Clan to be going anywhere.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 4:57:18 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

While reading responses to the "what if the gargoyles had to leave Xanatos' home" I started to wonder about something. What if the gargoyles had to leave for some reason, and had to keep hidden away from Xanatos for a time while they planned out their next moves, would they might consider splitting up temporarily, so Xanatos would have a harder time finding them? It would not be permanent, just until they get their plans worked out, for say a few weeks tops. What I wondered was this: Where would the different gargoyles opt to stay for those few weeks? I would think Goliath would want to be either at Reynard's or Elisa's. I could see Hudson & Bronx over at Robbins'. But what about the rest of the clan, like Brooklyn & his family? Broadway & Angela? Lexington? I know this is a big "what if" question, & I hope it's not too complicated, but hopefully it's understandable.
Charisma82
"It's better to have a horrible ending than to have horrors without end."
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 4:30:16 pm EDT from 64.13.117.74

Rebel> I thought about Macbeth; while he is another former enemy he's a great deal more trustworthy then Xanatos. I didn't mention him cause I didn't want to assume that he would be even willing to take in the clan. As for Talon and Goliath butting heads, I agree with you there but at least Derek wouldn't be sicking killer robots on them.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 3:48:30 pm EDT from 86.41.196.37

I think Macbeth is a more likely "landlord" than Halcyon Renard. The Labyrinth could work, but I think Talon and Goliath would end up butting heads if the gargoyles were down there for long.
Rebel
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 2:03:12 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Algernon - although I like the idea of Halcyon Renard becoming the Gargs landlord of sorts, He's sadly not long for this world. That and Vogal is still working for him, and that's a serious problem(I'm not sure why he didn't turf Vogal after his first indiscretion with Airship II. If only Vogal knew it was Goliath that helped to save his butt by what he said to Renard after that incident. Who knows, Maybe somehow Renard will leave some of his property to the Gargs in some fashion.
Wingless
Still Seeing Green-sadly it ain't money
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 1:11:26 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Greg B> I disagree with your assertion that the clan needs Xanatos. All he really provides them is room and board, things that they could easily get in say the Labyrinth or on Avalon. I'm sure Halcayon "I owe you my soul if not my life" Renard would be more then happy to put them up somewhere. That said, Xanatos is a smart guy and I'm sure he's thought of all this, so I'm going to wait and see how this plot-line resolves itself before I jump to any more conclusions.
Algernon
"Nobody can say I wasn't a perfect father, do you hear..? Nobody !" - Norman Osborn
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 12:12:05 pm EDT from 86.41.196.37

Why do schools time everything to happen at the same time? Seriously, Finals, Financial Aid, Housing, Class Registration . . . NOT cool.

But despite the busy, I finally convinced my roommate to watch Gargoyles. I knew I had him hooked the minute we started Season 2 and he started to hear Keith's opening monologue. Thanks to YouTube, we're currently wrapping up the World Tour (just saw "The Green" last night), and he is loving every bit of it.

The best part about converting him? He's read his share of Shakespeare, and he's managed to familiarize himself with most of the legends/myths that Gargoyles uses. So when we reach a certain episode (like Avalon), and he realize who's going to be introduced (say, Arthur) a huge smile hits his face and he looks to me and goes "Oh my God! This is SO COOL!"

The second best part is that he's always asking me if what he's thinking is about to happen will happen, to which I usually respond, "Just watch, man! You'll know soon enough!" He then swears but continues to watch.

He LOVED hearing about the Jalepena-back-story, and grinned every time he's heard so far (I think we past the last Canon episode to feature it, but I'm not sure)

It's funny, throughout the week, I've been paying attention to the Avatars used so far, trying to gauge how much he could be spoiled "visually" should he ever get the urge to visit the CR one day. I've seriously been saying to myself, "nope, No Una and Leo yet . . . Ooh, he just got introduced Old Magus . . ."

Pretty off-topic, but I thought you would all like to hear that there's at least another fan in the ranks.
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, Apr 19, 2008 1:37:57 am EDT from 157.242.222.117

Demonskrye - No worries. I was having a pretty bad day and I often look to this place for a diversion from reality. I don't often post questions, and those I do don't generally get much attention. I thought I had a few curious questions and I wanted to hear what everyone else thought. Well, I guess I'm not the only one to have questions overlooked at times. Nice that there was a little feedback in the long run:-)
Wingless
Still Seeing Green-sadly it ain't money
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 9:05:38 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

Keep in mind that Xanatos hit that button more than two days before Coldstone and Coldfire showed up. That doesn't mean he didn't call them, but there could be other things going on.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 8:55:02 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

SPOILERS

Anthony > It could have been anything. I know at several moments, there is a bomb mentioned. Maybe he was pressing the button to activate the bomb. Or, maybe it was something else entirely, that we haven't even seen yet.

He doesn't even need to "call" them to get them to show up, IMO. If they are tracking Coldsteel they would not have been far behind him anyway, so it's not surprising they could end up in London without ever being "called".
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 8:53:36 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

SPOILERS


Rebel> If he didn't "call" them, what's your theory on why Xanatos hit that red button?
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 8:44:15 pm EDT from 70.15.84.29

I think he decided to send Coldsteel because Coldsteel is likely a better fighter than the steel/iron clan robots. Those things are always blowing up or being outwitted, but Coldsteel has a clever, sentient mind in a very resilient body, making him an excellent warrior. That's probably why Coldsteel was sent; Xanatos knew Coldsteel wouldn't be dispatched in minutes like the Steel/iron clan robots.

Also, he may have deliberately sent Coldsteel knowing that Coldfire and Coldstone would follow. If the real object is NOT to obtain the stone, then having Coldstone and Coldfire show up as well could only add to the diversion. I doubt very much that Xanatos is controlling Coldfire and Coldstone at this point...I don't think he "called" them. But I think he was confident he could count on them to show up.
Rebel
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 7:57:26 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Why the Steel and Iron Clan Robots Go To London: Two Theories:

1. Xanatos is thrifty - If you think about it, we've never really seen tons of Steel or Iron Clan robots at any given time. We know they weren't easy to design, or else Xanatos wouldn't have needed the gargoyles to steel the Cyberbiotics data for him. They may not be easy or cheap to build either. We also know that they get blown up a lot, so much so that the Steel Clan action figures action was to blow up. I'd imagine Xanatos kept a few backups kicking around, but I don't get the impression he has legions of them in a warehouse somewhere waiting for an appropriate occasion. So maybe we see Steel and Iron Clan robots because that's what Xanatos happens to have on hand.

2. Xanatos is prepared - Xanatos generally tries to be prepared, but he may still not be totally sure what to expect in London. Though it's pretty unlikely that one of Oberon's Children would still be kicking around post-Gathering (though I don't recall if we know exactly how long Oberon intends to keep the whole family on Avalon), it could certainly throw a wrench into the works if one did show up. Better to throw in an Iron Clan robot and not end up really needing its particular abilities (to be iron) than to skip it and find out later that it would have been useful.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 7:11:46 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Patrick - ok, then, I'll respect your wishes.

**Ask Greg related**
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10518 <- Yet another poster doesn't get multiple topics/multiple posts and how to use the time line to answer part of the question.
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10513 <- And another question that the answer could be at least partially looked up
http://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10506 <- A little research would have pointed out who this other character is and the answer would have been self-evident.

I'm beginning to wonder if there was a contest for worst submitted questions, would it be a hard vote to come with the worst 10 for the year.

Yes, I acknowledge some of mine in the past might have qualified.
**End Ask Greg related**

Hoe - <That's what I like about Xanatos. Even as far back as "Possession," when he was supposedly helping Coldstone as a favor to Goliath, he still slipped some insurance into Coldsteel's design, because he's a prudent guy and he figured, hey, you never know.> He doesn't like to waste anything, including opportunities.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 7:06:21 pm EDT from 98.20.148.220

DEMONSKRYE - I know the feeling. I've made posts that I thought might launch discussions, and they didn't gather any comments, either.

Coming a day late, but I liked Greg's explanation for why Keith David stopped playing the Big Man on "The Spectacular Spider-Man" - he's now playing Oberon on stage. How appropriate that he'd not only be playing a Shakespearean character, but one of the Shakespearean characters who made it directly into "Gargoyles".
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 6:46:38 pm EDT from 4.244.213.34

Keep in mind that Quincy Hemings told Xanatos that his first mission from the Illuminati was something right up his alley. He didn't say what the mission was exactly, but knowing Xanatos it sounds like some subterfuge is assured. Theres a piece to this puzzle we don't know yet. Xanatos is not simply after the Stone. Something else is definitly going on.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 6:45:42 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

I figure another reason for getting help from Coldsteel would be the self healing technology in him, thus unlike the Steel and Iron Clan as well as Coyote, he can't be smashed into scrap metal.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 6:09:09 pm EDT from 71.115.218.75

Honestly, I don't think Xanatos's aim with Coldsteel was to divert attention from himself. His ultimate purpose concerning the Stone might not be known just yet, but whatever it is, he probably just saw Coldsteel as an extra asset.

That's what I like about Xanatos. Even as far back as "Possession," when he was supposedly helping Coldstone as a favor to Goliath, he still slipped some insurance into Coldsteel's design, because he's a prudent guy and he figured, hey, you never know.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"She said she was a dancer. If I believed it, it was my business. It felt like a merry dance that I was being led." -Ian Anderson.
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 5:58:31 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

I live in Iowa, and even I felt that one.

Matt & Siren : Thanks for the compliments about my signature. I can't take any credit for it though. Way back when, Juan Lara used to use this at the end of all his messages at the old Disney Afternoon newsgroup.
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 5:18:38 pm EDT from 66.43.205.110

Didn't feel any of that earthquake here in Ohio.

DPH > I have it on good authority that the next Gathering will be held at a hotel. Shh... keep it on the down-low.

70 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 5:17:29 pm EDT from 76.205.111.62

Knowing my luck it'll be somewhere close to me like NY and I won't be able to attend because of my friend's wedding.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 4:38:50 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

One more question: has anybody heard anything about where next year's gathering is going to be?
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 2:47:56 pm EDT from 98.20.148.220

gxb - <You're assuming Xanatos feels the need to cover his ass. At this point, when it comes to him and the gargoyles, he holds all the cards. They need him more than he needs them.> Excellent point.

Do the gargoyles have viable options for relocation? Yes. Yes, but somebody has mentioned earlier, it's going to take a lot to convince them to move away *again*. Last time, it took Macbeth capturing the gargoyles to get them to leave. Now, the clan nows that David Xanatos won't kill them because that's wasteful. The question remains is there anything besides the threat of death that would convince the Goliath & company to leave the castle? I can think of a few extreme things that would cause Goliath & company to leave the castle temporarily, but to leave on a permanent basis, would require something major.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 2:43:44 pm EDT from 98.20.148.220

Algernon> You're assuming Xanatos feels the need to cover his ass. At this point, when it comes to him and the gargoyles, he holds all the cards. They need him more than he needs them.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 1:32:07 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Personally I was a bit surprised that Xanatos used Coyote and the Steel Clan at all in this. I had assumed that the whole point of using Coldsteel was to deflect suspicion away from himself. Yes, Xanatos could probably concoct some story to cover his ass but do you really think the clan would believe it after all the times they've been screwed by him before. I just don't see how Goliath will be able to turn a blind eye to Xanatos' shenanigans if he's going about them so blatantly.
Algernon
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 1:06:01 pm EDT from 149.157.1.180

Matt and Todd--Did you feel that? There was another quake...or an
aftershock.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 11:17:33 am EDT from 128.252.125.238

Mild SPOILERS

I think at this point, the Manhattan clan is going to assume Xanatos was involved until he can prove that he wasn't. Kind of the reverse of standard legal practice I know, but given his past record with the clan and some of Lex's dialogue when fighting Coyote, I'm guessing they'll need some serious convincing that he wasn't behind it.

Wingless, I'm sorry I kind of helped to derail your topic. Keep in mind that it is kind of the nature of conversation that you may try to bring up a topic and it just doesn't take. I've brought up topics of conversation I though would be interesting that were completely ignored. It's unfortunate, but it isn't intended as a personal snub. I did think that the question of where the clan might go if they had to leave the castle again, the top possibilities being Macbeth's place, Reynard's place, and as a last hope, the Labyrinth. Given the fact that I think the clan only trusts Xanatos not to kill them or reveal them, I doubt they would leave unless they felt that they or their mission of protection were being seriously endangered by Xanatos. It's possible that they might feel that way at the end of the London mission, but until we know exactly what's going on, we can't really know.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 10:54:03 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

Matt> I live in St. Charles: I felt it! No one else I know noticed it though. I heard on the radio it was 5.2 on the richter scale
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 9:52:26 am EDT from 128.252.125.238

Matt> I live in St. Charles: I felt it! No one else I know noticed it though. I heard on the radio it was 5.2 on the richter scale
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 9:51:24 am EDT from 128.252.125.238

MATT - Yes, I felt it too. Good thing it was a mild one.

I'd thought about Xanatos lying about his involvement and claiming that it was Coldsteel using his robots, but that seems unnecessarily complicated to me. Why use robots who were so closely associated with him in that case, to begin with?

And all the evidence that we have so far (from #7, in particular) makes it clear that Xanatos was the one who'd recruited Coldsteel and Coyote in the first place; having them turn out to be working for Thailog instead just makes things too complicated.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 8:01:31 am EDT from 4.244.214.221

OMG!!! Todd did you feel that? The St. Louis area just had an earthquake, I kid you not! Crazy!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 5:52:20 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Minor Spoilers (check the expiry dates)

I like Blaise's point about not knowing if Xanatos is involved at all. Thinking about it, what did that little pen button he pushed really do? Call the bots & Coyote or Coldstone & Coldfire? Since we have Thailog involved here, the bots could under his direction and this could be a deception of his to make it look like Xanatos is involved. Then again, Did't Coldsteel meet up with Xanatos in a previous comic? Speculation! Speculation!
Todd also has a point about the castle. the idea of 'Keep your friends close and your enimies closer' might be a way of allowing the clan to stay at the castle. Personally, I'd still worry about their safty there - but it's not like they have alot of options. Macbeth's maybe. I think the laberynth is too unprotected for the clan to be down there for an extended period of time, despite Derek, Maggie & Claw being there.

As for trusting Xanatos - after all he's done, I wouldn't. Hope the Gargs don't either.

Issue #9 can't come fast enough.
Wingless
It's not easy seeing green (See my previous post and you'll know what I'm talking about )
posted @ Fri, Apr 18, 2008 2:34:21 am EDT from 99.245.254.123

The whole thing makes me go back to a question I had when I first read the comic. Why one Steel Clan robot and one Iron Clan robot? Why not two of one type or the other? Does it mean anything? Was there any particular reason Xanatos did this? Or was Greg doing it for a reason, perhaps to make the battle scenes less confusing?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 11:05:47 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

****A trunk fades into view. It opens its lid and spits out a jumble of body parts. The parts gradually reassemble themselves into the form of Blaise.****

ANTIYONDER> A belated Happy Birthday!

COMIC SPOILERS!! COMIC SPOILERS!!


THE CLAN'S KNOWLEDGE OF XANATOS'S INVOLVEMENT> Exactly what proof do the clan have that Xanatos is involved? Well...okay, you've got a Steel Clan robot, an Iron Clan robot, and Coyote 5.0 (who wears Xanatos's face). And there's Coldsteel, whose body was built by Xanatos.
However, the hypothesis has already been put forward that Coldstone and Coldfire showed up because Xanatos called them. If that is the case, and Coldstone or Coldfire are aware of that, then Xanatos may very well be able to talk his way out of any accusations. He's lied before, what's to stop him from saying something along the lines of, "Coldsteel broke into my robotics company and stole three of my robots, including a Coyote model that was to be decommissioned, and I tracked them to London, managed to contact Coldstone and Coldfire and they arrived just in time"? Something like that, only better.
The gargoyles wouldn't trust him completely, but they wouldn't do something as drastic as relocating without conclusive proof. Actually, if Coldstone and Coldfire rejoin the clan, Goliath might be pleased enough to let Xanatos slide this once (or not).

END SPOILERS!! END SPOILERS!!

Until next time, farewell. ****Blaise closes his truck, straddles it like a horse, grabs and flicks the air as though holding a horse's reins, and the trunk gallops out of the Room.****
Blaise
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."--Terry Pratchett's "Jingo"
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 10:49:11 pm EDT from 4.232.192.46

**A 1/8 awake creature enters the cr**

Ed - Wb.

With the back pages being off on gargoyles #8, it'll bring up a future argument in a few years: "Did #8 really come out before bg #2? The back page says otherwise".

**the creature nearly falls asleep and has its attendants politely remove him befoire complaints are issued**
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 10:41:59 pm EDT from 98.20.186.183

I highly doubt the Manhattan Clan will ever leave Castle Wyvern again.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 9:42:37 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Or the gargoyles might decide to stay in the castle precisely because they're aware of the kinds of things that Xanatos and Fox are up to, and decide that they need to keep a close watch on them.

(Of course, moving to Avalon would be out of the question anyway, since it would bring the story to a premature end.)
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 7:58:17 pm EDT from 4.244.213.56

I imagine they could find shelter somewhere at short notice. The Labyrinth most obviously. Macbeth might take them in. At direst need, they could retreat to Avalon while things cool down in the outside world, though I'm sure they'd consider this a great failure.
Ed
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 7:51:15 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

Trust, Xanatos, etc. > I don't think Wingless used the wrong word. As someone else mentioned, trust isn't an either/or kind of thing. It's not like flipping on a light switch. Trust runs in a spectrum, from "don't trust at all" to "trust completely" and there's a lot in between that. The gargoyles definitely don't trust Xanatos completely, or even very much, at this point. But, they trust him a little more than they used to, and they trust him *enough* not to destroy them while they sleep. Anyway, I understood what Wingless meant in his/her original post. I also think it's unfortunate that the conversation has been derailed from Wingless' original question, so that's all I'm going to say on the trust issue.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 7:36:58 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

I think that some of the trouble emerged from the old lingering influence of the Goliath Chronicles, where Xanatos was portrayed as having genuinely reformed. We know that Bishansky, at least, was unhappy about it, and so he naturally focused on that when Wingless used the word "trust". It just goes to show how careful it is to choose the right words.

I also thought it unfortunate that the conversation derailed from "Where will the gargoyles go?" to "Has Xanatos genuinely changed?", since I was (and still am) interested in that question. Pity that we might not see it addressed in "Clan-Building", since the next story (and the last one in the "Clan-Building" arc) will be Brooklyn's Timedancer adventures, and there won't be that much room to look into it there (nearly all of the action will be taking place before the gargoyles are even awakened).

* SPOILERS FOR #8 *

It occurred to me that it would make all the more sense if the Illuminati turned out to be after King Arthur rather than the Stone of Destiny. I'd mentioned earlier that it seems odd that the Illuminati would only go after the Stone now, when they've had hundreds of years to do so. But if the Illuminati's real target was Arthur, that would fit the timing. The Illuminati weren't formed until after Arthur was taken to Avalon (at least, according to Greg's statements, which are still canon-in-training), and he wasn't wakened until a few months before the Stone of Destiny story. But the Illuminati could have found out about Arthur's return during the few months (six, according to TDIGUH) between his meeting Griff and the Stone's return to Scotland - and this would be their first opportunity to pursue him.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 7:05:28 pm EDT from 4.244.213.56

Amp > For all we know, even IF Amp is homosexual, he may already have a mate in the London clan. I actually think that Lex feeling attracted to Amp, but then discovering that Amp already has a male mate might actually advance Lex's realization of his own sexuality much more than him simply being attracted to Amp. Lex seeing that two male gargoyles can love each other and be accepted by their clan might be something that would prompt him to think about his own sexuality even more than a mere infatuation. Just a thought.

Wingless > Somehow I don't think they'll be leaving the castle for a good long while. Of course, I could be wrong, but for some reason it just seems like they'd probably stay there, even if the gargoyles and Xanatos aren't always on the same side. After all, as Goliath pointed out, they can at least trust Xanatos not to destroy them in their sleep...he'd never be so wasteful.

If they do leave, my money's on them going to Macbeth's.
Rebel
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 5:39:12 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

***#8 Again***

Was going to work my way through the comments chronologically so I don't repeat stuff but this caught my eye since I raised it in my last post... Amp and Coco possibly joining the Manhattan clan.

I admit, I thought the cast was going to be too unwieldy at the size it is, let alone the size it's growing to be. But now I've kind of accepted that most of the stories are going to be like this -- and it's great because you get a glimpse of many, many characters. Time was, we had a core cast of seven and others. Now we regularly have scores of characters every issue. Xanatos, Owen and Fox are "regulars"; doubtless Katana, Nashville and Fu-Dog will be too. Many other characters are obviously closely tied into ongoing plots and will stick around. I mean, we've had "solo" threads focusing on Vinnie, Sarah & family, Brendan & Margot, all sorts of characters who are far from regulars but whose stories now seem to be in motion.

If Amp and Coco join the Manhattan Clan, will it really make such a difference to the balance of the cast? I think not. It doesn't preclude something developing gradually between Lex and Amp -- or something not developing. Or something looking like it might develop and then not working out which I think is still a real possibility. It took Goliath and Elisa 65 episodes to figure themselves out. It took Broadway and Angela eight, but their situation was much more emotionally straightforward. And because of the cast, we know things can simmer in the background for many issues at a time.

Of course, it may not happen. But it seems at least highly plausible. These guys aren't Una and Leo, skulking in the shop -- they're the ones who went into action with Griff. London has over a hundred gargoyles to watch over it; why shouldn't they go to the "front line" in Gargoyles Universe? Narratively, it makes sense given that we've had a lot of family and clan-building, and we know that's a theme. And personally, I'll be thrilled if it does.

***End Spoilers***
Ed
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 4:26:05 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

Aldrius - "a pair of crazy foreigners" I dunno, I think it might add a unique twist to the storyline. I know it's unlikely to happen, but it would be interesting to see them interact with the whole clan. Coco appears to be a very straight ahead, independant, no-nonsense kinda Gargoyle. Not quite sure what to make of Amp yet. As for Coldstone & Coldfire - like they've said in the past, until they deal with Coldsteal, they'll not be willing to rejoin the clan.

I'm still curious what the clan will do about a home this time around. Maybe Macbeth will take them in.

Greg B. Sorry if I snapped. I'm a little touchy at the moment. I've developed a odd spot on my right eye. I have a green oval on the eye(like someone tok a green marker and colored on it). My eyesight is bad enough and it'll be weeks before I find out what's going on with it.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 4:05:57 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

***#8 SPOILERS***

Was finally able to pick up my copy of #8 -- another blinding issue! I may eventually do a big review, but I haven't had a chance to read over what other people have been saying so I'm sure by now you guys have picked up on stuff I haven't yet and talked a lot about the big revelations.

A few random things though, no particular order:

- Brief but distinct jolt of shock when Coldsteel threatened to dismember Hudson. I'm not sure if I'd have felt as unnerved about that before Goliath's stabbing.
- When Carbonek appears to Fergus, the river formation resembles the Knight's Spur. Possibly just David Hedgecock's way of drawing a river, and there's nothing in the text to suggest he'd go anywhere near London... but then Shari's proved here that none of these things are entirely true.
- Now we know why Xanadu are protecting the gargoyle beast species. Guatemala and the Labyrinth clan don't have beasts (though by 1998 the former might), and if London don't have any, it's quite plausible Loch Ness won't either. Manhattan only has Bronx.
- I think Amp and Coco are already my favourite international gargoyles. Great names and nicknames, fun personalities, terrific designs. If this is 'Clan-building', and since we're likely to have Brooklyn's family by #12, I wonder if it's also possible that we'll get Amp and Coco returning with Hudson and Lex. I hope so.
- Merlin took me a while to get used to but I like him a lot. We've seen enough twists on Merlin in pop culture -- creepy versions, craggy versions, hunky versions, chunky versions. This is kind of classic, but still a little eccentric-looking. Nice colours too.
- Macbeth and Arthur frequenting a store owned by Thailog who is studying the stone. Presumably a red herring. Or merely a gag.
- Obviously Xanatos wants the gargoyles to suspect him and Fox of foul play. No way is this story going to end with them at war with Xanatos -- Xanatos is always about keeping people onside. So he must have some trump card up his sleeve to explain things to the gargoyles. Hmm.
- Bit frustrating that Bad Guys #2 is advertised as being available on the back when it isn't. Oh well.

***END SPOILERS***
Ed
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 3:55:27 pm EDT from 213.187.39.61

Lunch break from class.

Wingless> I was not getting on your case at all.

Amp/Coco moving to Manhattan: I hope not. Not because I don't like the characters, I do like them. But I think it would be way too soon for one thing. For another, we're going to have three new gargoyles and an egg at the end of the next story arc, and having a main cast that large would be very unwieldy at this early stage in the comic. If Amp is indeed the one, it should take it's time, Lex is still discovering who he is. It just feels too soon.
Greg Bishansky
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 2:50:37 pm EDT from 75.36.123.78

I don't think Greg was getting on your case, Wingless.

Just trying to make a point in his own sarcastic sort of way.

*Comic 8 spoilers*

I'm not sure if Coco, Coldsteel, Coldstone and Amp are going to join the clan, I think there's something to be said for the clan having a huge population rise, though. Having to deal with two half-living gargoyles, Brooklyn having his own family, and a pair of crazy foreigners all in a single storyline would certainly be good reading, if maybe a little cluttered.

With a clan of 13 (a few of which, like Coldfire and Coldstone are extremely skilled, and extremely powerful), it certainly seems like we've found out why the pack would need another upgrade.
Aldrius
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 2:18:13 pm EDT from 216.254.133.172

Maybe it's a touch of auto-internet-sarcasm? The lack of a tone of voice and facial expression makes a huge difference in what's being said.
Tabby
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 1:58:52 pm EDT from 72.77.244.211

That's the point, I asked a couple of questions in hopes of starting a discussion. Instead it gets a sarcastic comment because I used the wrong word and it hijacks the original question.

I asked if that, after the encounter with the new Xanatos bots & Coyote - do you think the clan will again leave the castle-and if so, where would they go? Instead, what we get is a whole thing on the clan trusting or not trusting Xanatos. That wasn't the question. It's not the first time this has happened. If you'd rather not have some of us contribute, I'll just go back to lurking. It's not like pose questions in here often anyway.
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 12:32:08 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

OK, another call to spread information about the comic. This is from a recently answered "Ask Greg" question:

"But i was combing the archives and I cant seem to figure out why the comics stopped... Is there a legal problem? I was just wondering whats going on? i know you are very busy, but Id love to know."

I have never been one to panic over the comic situation and I'm not suggesting we do that now, but it is kind of disheartening to see that even people who find there way here don't necessarily know that the comic is still coming out. I'd suggested before that all Gargoyles fansites should try to put a little plug for the comic at least on the main page. Most of the major ones I know of (aside from GargWiki) do not have info about the comic on the front page so far as I can see. I realize some of them have not been updated in a long time and may be out of commission, but if it's at all possible, I think fansites should at least put up a link to more info about the comic on their front page, if not several major pages. It seems that the least we can do is make sure that anyone interested enough to go to a Gargoyles fansite knows about the comic and has some idea of when and where they can get issues.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 7:57:19 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

Actually, he just asked a question. If Wingless has an answer, no one's stopping him from sharing it.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"According to the legends of a thousand worlds only a few of which are still habitable, the W'rkncacnter are those things that live in chaos, creating it around them... As time has gone by, their existence has become difficult to detect among the chaotic elements of the universe, hidden in stars, trapped in storms, forever looking along the event horizons of black holes. Setting one free in ordered space is difficult and insane." -Durandal
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 6:42:25 am EDT from 76.123.52.7

Greg B> What don't you say that provokes such reactions?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 6:23:04 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Wingless> What did I say to you to provoke that reaction?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 12:21:03 am EDT from 75.56.245.4

Greg B - Ok, so I worded it wrong. I didn't mean trusted. sue me.
*sigh* And I keep coming back here why?
Wingless
posted @ Thu, Apr 17, 2008 12:10:02 am EDT from 99.245.254.123

Wingless> "I can't help but wonder if Coldstone and Coldfire are there for a reason - if they're working for someone. It seems odd for them just to show up."
-Keep in mind that the last time we saw Coldstone and Coldfire (chronologically) they left the Manhattan Clan to track down and deal with Coldsteel, so perhaps they've been on his trail the whole time. Then again, they may have been summoned the same way Coldsteel was in "Reunion".
As for your questions, I think it is likely that the Manhattan Clan will remain at the Eyrie, though they will remain distrustful of Xanatos. And I also tend to think Staghart and Constance will join the Manhattan Clan, backing up the Clan-Building theme, but perhaps they won't, or maybe only Staghart will come. Hard to say. If Coldstone and Coldfire (and later Katana and Fu-Dog and Nashville) join the Clan, it'll really be something.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 10:07:54 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

Hehe. Looks like Greg is fond of having people save serums full of "cures".
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 8:40:22 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Todd: <I look forward to seeing how the gargoyles will be dealing with that issue after Hudson and Lexington get back from London> Speaking of "The Edge," I'm wondering if Goliath and Xanatos's conversation might have reflections of their chat from that episode. "I'm the best friend you have in this world."


And now for general comments: funny thing about David and Fox is they're really one of the best-matched couples in the Gargoyles universe. They care about each other, they're evenly matched intellectually, and they're both strong-willed people who know what they want. Of course, we've also seen more couples lately than we have in the first sixty-five episodes. But for a time, they were definitely setting a standard.

Speaking of couples, I was also pondering something else: if I remember correctly, Greg Weisman said that Maggie saved the vial of serum that Sevarius made, be it cure, poison, or whatever. I wonder if her pregnancy might make this the topic of a future story.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"According to the legends of a thousand worlds only a few of which are still habitable, the W'rkncacnter are those things that live in chaos, creating it around them... As time has gone by, their existence has become difficult to detect among the chaotic elements of the universe, hidden in stars, trapped in storms, forever looking along the event horizons of black holes. Setting one free in ordered space is difficult and insane." -Durandal
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 8:37:47 pm EDT from 76.123.52.7

I'd be happy to see something along the lines of Brooklyn trying to hang out with Lex when he returns, only to find him too eager to spend all his time on the internet chatting with Amp back in London. The Brooklyn angst is entertaining, heh. On the one hand there'd be Broadway and Angela occupied with each other, and on the guy-time front Lex has no time for him either.

Or maybe Amp would stow along on their flight back, with Coco following him to keep tabs on him, and they'd just stay for a visit in Manhattan. Hey, cross-clan communications and visits can only become more frequent now that some of them know about each other.
Tabby
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 8:05:19 pm EDT from 72.77.244.211

Amp and Coco > I don't really see either of them going to Manhattan anytime soon. For all we know, Coco may already have a mate whom she wouldn't leave. If Amp is homosexual, then I doubt that he currently has a mate, but at the same time I doubt he'd want to leave Coco, his "best mate". If they both went to Manhattan (to stay permanently) then it's a safe bet that they are both single...and I, personally, really don't WANT Coco to be single, because it would be irritating if the first gargoyle female we ever got to meet who was not conventionally beautiful also didn't have a mate (given the age of Amp's and Coco's rookery, they all ought to be paired off by now).

Also, I think having another single female show up in Manhattan would make the whole Brooklyn-not-having-a-mate-and-being-lonely thing seem...weird. It would be really strange if Brooklyn approached Coco the way he's approached all the other females, but it would be really offensive (to me anyway) if he actively found her unappealing.

Also, Amp and/or Coco going to Manhattan would take attention away from Brooklyn, who will be the focus in the next arc. If/when any of the London gargoyles ever DO go to Manhattan, I want to have plenty of time for them to "settle in" and for us to enjoy those moments. If they show up now, it will feel rushed and crammed, because we'll also have Brooklyn's family joining the clan, and possibly also Coldstone and Coldfire, if the Coldsteel problem gets resolved.

In short, I just think having 7 new members join the Manhattan clan all of a sudden would be way too much going on at one time.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 7:02:36 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

DEMONSKRYE - Thanks for your explanation about the stores ordering less copies of each issue. I agree that we need to spread the word - and also, while we're at it, persuade people already buying the comic to keep on doing so (since the problem, according to Greg Weisman, is specifically sales dropping - which means, in turn, that some people have apparently given up on it).

* CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR #8 *

Xanatos clearly isn't worried about the gargoyles discovering that he's playing a major role in whatever scheme's unfolding in London, since three of the robots that he sent against them are clearly his trademarks (two Steel Clan robots - well, a Steel Clan and an Iron Clan robot - and a new Coyote, complete with the familiar half-Xanatos half-robot face on its screen). And even Coldsteel, who was a villain long before Xanatos came along (even before the Wyvern Massacre) is in a body that the gargoyles know was built by Xanatos. So he's making no effort to conceal his involvement from them - which has gotten me all the more curious.

Xanatos might be counting on the gargoyles having not too many housing options. Their secret's been exposed, and they can't move back to the clock tower. (Of course, the situation isn't as alarming as it was in the Goliath Chronicles; the Quarrymen are more low-key in the comic book, for one thing.) On the other hand, Xanatos already knows that that scheme didn't work in "The Edge", as Demonskrye (I think) pointed out earlier, so I don't think he's counting purely on a case of "They don't have anywhere else to go."

I look forward to seeing how the gargoyles will be dealing with that issue after Hudson and Lexington get back from London (though they might not address it for a while yet, since we already know that the next story will be about Brooklyn's Timedancing - and probably a lot of that will be in 10th century Scotland, where the big antagonist is Constantine). I think, though, that we can safely assume that it won't take the form of Elisa, after hearing Hudson and Lexington's story, saying that the incident in London makes it clear that Xanatos is too dangerous for the clan to stay with and they have to find somewhere else to live, followed by Goliath crying, "No! This castle is our home!" :)

I won't even guess whether Constance and Staghart will go to New York after the Stone of Destiny adventure's over, but if they do, I wonder whether Greg will be able to resist an in-joke about Broadway and Brooklyn's response to their arrival.

* SPOILERS END *
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 6:40:28 pm EDT from 4.244.214.68

I'm not saying he hasn't changed. But he's still one of the antagonists. Fox too.

Remember who Fox is. She took a swimsuit model hostage at gun point, tried to destroy her father's corporation for the fun of it, and created the Matrix which could reshape the planet to suit her whims. I doubt she's going to encourage David to take classes on ethics. She's cut from the same cloth.

There may be only shades of gray in "Gargoyles" but David and Fox are still a darker shade.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 5:12:55 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Demonskrye: You make a very clear and valid point. Kudos--but there's also the Labyrinth. I have no doubt that Talon would take them in (I just watched Kingdom an hour ago "Everyone is welcome in the Labyrinth") but with their tensions involving the clones I doubt anyone would be comfortable with that arangement for very long.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 5:09:04 pm EDT from 66.167.64.179

While I agree that the idea that Xanatos became a "good guy" after "The Gathering" and "Hunter's Moon" is overly simplistic, I think it's equally oversimplifying to say that he hasn't changed at all over the course of those two events. He is still the same person with the same basic goals, but his priorities have shifted around a bit and he has learned from his past experiences. He may not learn a standard moral lesson in most cases, but he learns. As I've said before, he actually has the clan as close to under his control as they've been since "Awakening." His big mistake in "The Edge" - his most direct bid to control the clan - was stirring up public concerns about gargoyles himself and in such an obvious way that the clan knew it was him. Xanatos saw this as a minor, unimportant point, but Goliath didn't. What's actually worked for him is waiting until outside circumstances put the gargoyles in a position where they had little choice but to trust himand then offer his assistance. (Though of course, without the events of "The Gathering", the clan may have been much less inclined to take Xanatos up on that offer.)

I also think that Goliath does believe in redemption. It took many cases of Demona acting very antagonistic towards him and the clan and the realization that even intervening in their shared past couldn't change what she had become before he gave up on her. I do think he sincerely believes that Fox and Alex have had a positive effect on who Xanatos is. Again, that dosn't mean he's going to tell the guy anything he doesn't need to know, or even that he likes him at this point. But there are at least the beginnings of trust between the two.

It's also worth keeping in mind that we still don't know exactly where this whole Stone of Destiny business is leading. If it is in fact just a big distraction to lure out Arthur and keep his allies to look for him after he's been taken, then we really don't know what the ultimate goal is here. It could very well be a case of questionable means for a potentially good end. Until all of those time gaps are filled in, we're not going to know how the gargoyles will or should feel about Xanatos once this is all over. I can't imagine they'd be happy about him sending Coldsteel, Coyote, and the Steel and Iron clan to fight them. But if he does something like - I don't know - betray Coldsteel, eliminating him as a threat and allowing Coldstone and Coldfire to return to the clan, they might not be quite so angry. Tension may well run high, but I don't see the clan leaving again anytime soon. It took much of Season One to get the out of the Castle and all of Season Two to get them back in, so I'm guessing they'll stay put for a bit. Plus the only other options I can think of for them are Reynard and Macbeth, both of whom have the means to both protect and provide for the gargoyles just as well as Xanatos does, if not better. The clock tower worked storywise because it really was a downgrade - a loss of space an luxuries in addition to the loss of their longtime home. If it's just "they went somewhere else that was equally nice or better", there's no cost and no tension and that's boring.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 4:42:06 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

Yeah, the gargoyles know exactly who and what they are living with in that castle. Sleeping with the enemy.

What would be interesting is the moral dilemma it could potentially create as their living options are very limited.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 2:58:27 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Again, Brooklyn and Goliath's discussion in #1 indicates that they expect Xanatos to dream and scheme. I suppose a better way to put their living arrangements is that they see him as a lesser evil (since he's not vengeful, isn't genocidal and won't stoop to destrying them during the day).

Heck, in #7 Macbeth brings it to their attention that their landlord would be interested in stealing The Stone.
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 2:55:19 pm EDT from 71.115.218.75

Greg B> Well trust isn't an either/or thing. They trusted Xanatos enough to believe he wasn't going to smash them while they slept or betray them to their foes. That's a level of trust, but it's well below revealing their every thought or move to him. Xanatos's involvement in whatever scheme is unfolding in London is almost certainly going to reduce their trust in him, but whether it's enough to make them seek out a new home once more remains to be seen.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 2:09:51 pm EDT from 209.6.248.33

WINGLESS> <<Do you think this means the clan will once again vacate the castle-no longer trusting Xanatos?>>

When did they start trusting Xanatos?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 1:03:08 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Patrick - "If stone sleep heals punctures in wing membranes, how does Lexington keep his belt on?" Like a pierced ear, the belt is always there.

SPOILER-Sort of

I finally got #8 yesterday, and it was a blast! Love the new members of the London clan - although I wasn't sure I was going to before reading it. One can have their oun impressions of a character I guess. Loved Coco's spunk. Very out going and confident character. Admittedly, I prefer the look of Amp.
I can't help but wonder if Coldstone and Coldfire are there for a reason - if they're working for someone. It seems odd for them just to show up.

Two questions pop to mind after reading #8. With the presence of Coyote and the Steel/Iron Clan robots. Do you think this means the clan will once again vacate the castle-no longer trusting Xanatos?
Second: Do you think any of the London clan might return with Lex, Hudson & the others to Manhattan? I know there are some that want Lex and Amp to become Mates-so that might be an option.

Any thoughts?
Wingless
I can just hear it now - Lex - "We just flew back from London and boy, are our wings tired"
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 12:59:36 pm EDT from 99.245.254.123

I dunno, maybe it won't heal if a belt is strung through it. Like human ears when they're peiced. If a person with peirced ears doesn't wear earings for a long time they start to heal up and you can't put earings in anymore.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 12:46:13 pm EDT from 66.167.64.179

If stone sleep heals punctures in wing membranes, how does Lexington keep his belt on?

72 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 12:33:58 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

Spen>Also love the siggie

On blood...there was also blood when Hakon struck Goliath's hand with his sword.
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 11:40:01 am EDT from 70.154.233.121

Happy birthday, Antiyonder!

Wounded wings> I tend to think of them as analogs to bat wings. Not as strong, but certain things still apply, and it still takes into account the temperature regulation theory. I've worked with bats (briefly), and those guys can be pretty resilient when it comes to their wings. Small tears in the patagium (the stretched skin) don't really bleed all that much. As was mentioned earlier, this may be due to it being capillaries and not arteries/veins providing the blood. And they heal pretty quickly, again due to the capillaries involved. So it is reasonable to expect relatively small tears, say a few inches long, max just under a foot (this is not area), to not impede things, not bleed all that much, and to heal pretty well even prior to stone sleep.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 10:45:32 am EDT from 131.204.97.9

Very true. I'd forgotten about that.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 9:55:51 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

If the shots were from lasers, hey presto, instant cauterization! :)
Christine - [christine at sabledrake dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 9:46:45 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

Matt> Re: wings

Well, other than Elisa's gunshot wound, I don't remember that much blood in the series at all, so it could be no more than the fact that S&P wouldn't allow it. If you want a better biological explanation, it could be that there are valves in the wing membrane capillaries that close off if the vessel is torn. They wouldn't be able to respond instantly, so there'd be some blood loss, but relatively little compared to, say, a human scalp wound.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd - [Kth_dragon at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 9:14:42 am EDT from 216.57.96.1

Spen> Great signature.

Wings> I too tend to think wings first evolved as temperature regulation devices and later on allowed gliding. However, havn't we seen instances where holes are blown through wings (like Goliath's wings in "M.I.A." and "Nightwatch" and "The Journey") and it didn't seem that they bled much, if at all?

Bad Guys #2, "The Lost"> I'm really hoping that this issue gives us a deeper glimpse into the Ishimura Clan the way "Rock & Roll" has given us a lot more info on the London Clan. It'll be fun to see Kai and Sora again.I'm particularly excited to see relationship stuff between Sora and Yama.

Random question> Okay, so way back in "Invitation Only", Goliath says he has to honor his obligations and go to the Labyrinth. What obligation does he or the Clan have to go to the Labyrinth on Halloween? And why do Lex, Broadway and Angela get worked up about it?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 9:00:57 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Todd> I don't think it's necessarily a really worrying sign that some comic shops are ordering fewer copies of the comic. Now that we're several issues into the regular book, the comic shop orders have a better idea of how many copies they can actually sell and are ordering to reflect that. as Greg W has mentioned in the past, comic book shops can seldom afford to take chances like continuing to order many copies of a title that doesn't have huge buzz or publicity and simply hoping that sales will pick up. Asking shops to just order more copies isn't going to get us anywhere. Like Disney with the Season Two Part Two DVD, they feel they already have hard sales evidence of how the product will perform. What we need to do is create more demand by getting more people to buy the book, either through other venues or by asking their local stores to order the book for them. If the book starts getting more buzz, either in the individual shop or in the industry in general, maybe we'll see stores start ordering shelf copies again.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 8:54:53 am EDT from 209.6.248.33

Happy birthday, Antiyonder!

Thanks for your review, Blaise, though I'm a bit worried about the comic book store cutting back on orders. That's the second store I've heard of here doing that (the first was the one that Demonskrye goes to, I recall). I hope this isn't a sign of trouble for the comic book.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 6:59:52 am EDT from 4.244.209.123

Happy birthday, Antiyonder!
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 4:12:15 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

<< I'm currently writing the next chapter in my Gargoyles fanfiction, and one of my main characters gets her wing membrane torn (Pretty badly). I wasn't sure if she should bleed or not. >>

This is just me speculating from what little I know of dinosaurs ... partially-evolved wings aren't much use for flight, so they almost MUST have had some other purpose; they might have served like the back-fins or sails or whatever you want to call them on critters like the dimetrodon. One of the functions of those was to help with regulating body temperature, so they were laced with capillaries. Which would certainly bleed if cut, probably a lot but not necessarily life-threatening, like a scalp wound, with no major veins or arteries involved.

If you look at a bat's wing (http://www.tigerhomes.org/animal/images/bats-wing.jpg), you can see the intricate network of delicate blood vessels.

That's my thoughts, anyway.
Christine - [christine at sabledrake dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 3:41:53 am EDT from 70.56.94.10

>Comic spoilers<


I wonder if Xanatos has made the same deal with Coldfire that he made with Coldsteel...

Especially if his goal is to only distract the gargoyles, and not actually steal anything from them.
Aldrius
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 2:17:56 am EDT from 207.112.34.230

Had my birthday party today (I'm 26). Had Bubble Yum Ice Cream for the first time (didn't even know they had that flavor).
Antiyonder - [antiyonder at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 2:12:49 am EDT from 71.115.218.75

Blaise>"but why is "story time" advancing by one minute each day?"

I think it's because of the season? #7-9 take place in November, and in North America it's winter season...the nights get longer until the solstice. I think that's the idea here.
Meg
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 1:51:20 am EDT from 138.16.28.211

****Blaise...just walks into the Room through the door.**** You know, after 11 years of coming up with entrances and exits, it becomes *very hard* not to repeat yourself.

I didn't get my copy of #8 until last Friday (I was working the day it came out and by the time I got to Golden Apple, they were sold out--mostly because they had cut back on their orders). Well, I'm on a list now, so hopefully that won't happen again any time soon.

GARGOYLES #8--"ROCK AND ROLL">

SPOILERS!! SPOILERS!!


The extra wait was painful for me, but it was still worth it.
-I enjoyed the "previews" of what was to come. "Knight's Spur" is a cool reveal, as is Hudson vs. Coldsteel (and their lines directly follow their initial exchange later in the book). And I was pleasantly surprised when Vinne showed up. I'm still wondering how he enters into this story, but we'll find out eventually.
-Ahhh...I recall some people posting about different tales of the Stone's journey to Ireland, and now Shari starts telling them. I like how Thailog (speaking for the audience as well) points out that this contradicts her earlier story, and she is not fazed but subtley reinforces the "..who can say if it be true" bit.
-Wow, Arthur and Macbeth share the same coronation day. Maybe they should throw themselves dual coronation day parties.
I don't know who called that Mac and Art would compare notes and then become chummy again, but they were right. I love how they suddenly panic that the gargoyles "will be at each others' throats" when, in fact, they're getting along like a house on fire.
-I wonder what Xanatos's little button-thing is for. Like Phil, I'm half suspecting he may have summoned Colstone and Coldfire with it....
-I absolutely LOVED the scene where Mac and Art compare their immortal lives. Who knew Nightstone had coffe shops?
I did not miss that the second half of Mac's line, "Here's to the Immortals--there aren't many like us..." topped a page (and panel) of Shari...telling a tale of Chu Chullain.
I was surprised at how much like Rory young Chu Chullain looked here.
-I enjoyed Hudson's objection to being called "yank." And kudos to whoever called the (nick)names.
Constance=Coco
Staghart=Amp
Cute.
-Just as Coco says that no one calls Staghart "Amp," We flash forward to the big battle where Lexington calls him by that name. I'm not ready to say there's anything special going on yet, but it certainly seems like Lexington's already pretty close to Amp.
-I was surprised that this particular section of the fight scene (very cool, BTW) lasted as long as it did (seriously, how often do we follow a specific time for more than a page?). I, too, noticed the Iron Clan robot alongside the Steel Clan one (I've always wanted to see Coldsteel lead a battalion of the Steel Clan, but I'll settle for this). I also like how Griff recognizes the resemblance to Goliath, and Macbeth knows the robots are Xanatos's. Just as Mac says the battle might be a diversion, he notices Arthur's gone. I didn't think this was anything other than Arthur being way ahead of Macbeth and rushing off to protect the stone. Certain theories put forth here, however, now have me wondering....
-Nice Arthurian story, and we finally get our first true glimpse of Merlin. His design surprised me, I must say. I expected something like blue or grey garments with a hood, if not the typical pointy hat. But I really like this design (and the use of the word "clep'd"). Took me a minute to remember who Pelles was, though.
-"All things are true...few things are accurate." "Aye. No bloody kidding." I enjoyed that exchange, and that Arthur's trying to catch up on his Arthurian literature.
-London Clan 101. A very informative look at just how fricken' HUGE this clan is, along with other interesting tidbits (like "enforced isolation"--ouch!). Good reactions to Lex's question (whether Coco and Amp are mates), and also to Lex's unspoken query about beasts.
-Nice bit with Loch Ness, but why is "story time" advancing by one minute each day? It seems to regular to be coincidence.
-I liked Coldsteel's "no sign of life" quip. And it's confirmed that the Xanatos-head in Coyote's mouth IS a view screen. Good to know.
Like Demonskrye I recognized the Philip K. Dick reference.
I liked how we jumped from Lexington saying they weren't going anywhere until they figure out what Xanatos *and Fox* are up to (showing how much he still distrusts her) and we jump back to Fox buying her shoes. Now, about those shoes...at this point, they're starting to become a bigger mystery than anything else in this story.
-Thailog doesn't like losing (or even getting close to it), but he's like his father (one of them anyway) when it comes to subordinates pretending to lose.
I thought Kenneth Macalpin looked cool.
-Seeing Coco's happy reaction to the Iron Clan's "delimbification" coupled with her "Like I need a gun" line led me to believe she was dangerous. This impression lasted until I turned the page and saw that she was REALLY dangerous.
-She's topped by Coldsteel, though, who's willing to do it to his own father. But his tentacles are melted before he can (and I am NOT used to seeing anything but a scowl on his robotic face, so his surprised look here caught me by...well, surprise).
-Since the fire came, I knew Coldfire was there at least, so Coldstone couldn't have been too far behind. I second Amp's "Anyone order up the kitchen sink?"

All in all, I'm just waiting for the concluding chapter.

END SPOILERS!! END SPOILERS!!

And, before I forget, a very belated "Happy Birthday" to Samuel, Warcrafter, Incisivis, and Asatira.

And I think I've caught up. Until next time, farewell. ****Blaise walks over to a trunk that just appeared. He opens the trunk, grasps his left hand with his right, pulls his left hand off and throws it in the trunk. He does this with each part of his body until only the right hand remains, floating in the air. Blaise's right hand then hurls itself into the trunk, which slams shut and fades away.****
Blaise
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."--Terry Pratchett's "Jingo"
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 1:22:55 am EDT from 4.232.165.163

Anal avatar info > For anyone that might wish to make a new avatar and send it to Gorebash, I've got some potentially useful info. I took down the dimensions, in pixels, of all the avatars currently on this page.

The width range of avatars currently on this page is 174 - 111 pixels.

The height range of avatars currently on this page is 154 - 105 pixels.

The average side length is 134.5, with the average overall area being 269 (useful if you want your avatar to be rectangular, not square).

So why did I bother to calculate all this? This way, you can go ahead and size your avatar/s appropriately so Gorebash doesn't have to do all the work. These figures are to give you an idea of appropriate sizes. The overall area of your avatar could probably be a little greater than 269, but not humongously so...you can't have a 200 x 200 avatar, for example.
Rebel
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 12:20:45 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

If anyone is ever looking for pictures for the wiki, scans_daily over on livejournal has a substantial number of the comic pages scanned; just search the tags for gargoyles.
Meg
posted @ Wed, Apr 16, 2008 12:07:34 am EDT from 138.16.28.211

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10495 <- This question I suspect as one of the worst in the current backlog. Talk about impatience.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 11:46:52 pm EDT from 98.20.186.183

The pic in Tabby's name > Haha, somehow I never noticed before that Coco is squeezing Amp so tight in that second panel! One of his hands is all outstretched like "Aaah can't breathe!".
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 11:13:19 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Speaking of strange questions...

http://s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=10505

I have a question for Gargoyleslady there... why did you stop taking your pills?
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 10:03:34 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

BISHANSKY - Yes, I've noticed them as well. It's a pity that people keep on ignoring the "No original ideas masquerading as questions" rule.
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 7:07:46 pm EDT from 4.244.214.64

If it's of interest to anyone, click my name for a scan of Coco and Amp from #8. I tried using it to lure some of my slash obsessed friends into picking up the comic.
Tabby
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 5:49:46 pm EDT from 72.77.244.211

GargWiki> Well, I added the pic of Staghart since everyone seemed to agree it was his best pic. Someone else will have to take care of Constance's pic. My only complaint is that Staghart's pic is the exact same pic found on the London Clan page... Oh well.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 5:39:56 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

We can definitely add new avatars. I just don't want to incur an influx of a few dozen avatars. I'd prefer to keep the list of avatars short(ish).

Anyways. If someone wants to scan a few from the comics and send them my way be my guest. The three SLG avatars up now came from Dave Hedgecock himself so I think he and SLG would be cool about adding a few more from the book.

NOTICE: if you send me an image or five and i do not use one or all this is not because i don't like them nor is it because i do not like you. it is because i am a jerk, simply put, and my personal tastes and momentary whimsies precluded my selection of your avatar(s).
Gorebash - [gorebash at s8 dot org]
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 3:25:48 pm EDT from 207.206.236.230

I think Staghart looks best at the end of issue 7, but I'm not so sure about Coco. The image of her "Delimbification" in issue #8 looks better than her pic @ the end of 7
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 1:45:53 pm EDT from 72.244.125.113

Hey Todd, just FYI, Gipdac posted a bunch of ideas masquerading as questions in Ask Greg. I'll admit, what gets me there is that he's been an AG regular for a while, so he should really know better.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 1:03:17 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Amp & Coco's pics > I think it would be best to take their pics from the last page of issue 7. To me, it seems like they look best there.
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 10:38:21 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

Matt> I can provide you with any pictures you want for the Garg Wiki from the comics. Just tell me the comic book # and page # and which character and I'll get it for you.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 10:28:11 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Avatars > Just in case someone does decide to add new avatars anytime soon, I'd love to have one added. I'd really like an image of Fox in her were-fox form from Eye of the Beholder. It could be cropped something like this:

http://tribe.ulm.edu/~fornearl/fox.gif
Rebel
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 10:24:31 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

I'm currently writing the next chapter in my Gargoyles fanfiction, and one of my main characters gets her wing membrane torn (Pretty badly). I wasn't sure if she should bleed or not.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 8:53:45 am EDT from 72.244.125.113

I think it is possible that Shari, Merlin, Staghart, et al. could become avatars here eventually, but that is far beyond my expertise.

And I think it is very very likely that gargoyle wing membranes have tons of blood vessels. Why?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 8:48:43 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Ah darn it. I was trying to avoid double posting so I posted my question anonymously but my e-mail address showed up. Ah well can anyone answer my question anyway?
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 7:12:32 am EDT from 72.244.125.113

I have a question about gargoyle anatomy. Are there blood vessels in their wing membranes?
Anynonymus - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 7:09:01 am EDT from 72.244.125.113

Matt-- Ah. Thank you. I wasn't mad or anything, just curious. I was also curious about the choice of avatars here in the comment room. Is it possible for Shari, Merlin,or Staghart to be future avatar options? Just wondering.

In other news I just read that an earthquake (6.1 on the Richter Scale) just rocked Guatamala. No reported injuries or damage, though the phones were out for a while. Wonder how this affected the Mayan clan? :)
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 6:57:43 am EDT from 72.244.125.113

If I had the ability to make pictures (either from TV episodes or the comics) for the GargWiki, I think that nearly every entry would have a picture by now. But we must wait until those with the desire and technical capability get a chance to add the pics in question. Meanwhile, I believe both of those pages are listed on the Community Portal as needing pictures, so hopefully it is only a matter of time.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 5:44:05 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Hey...just curious, but how come Staghart and Coco don't have any pictures next to their Garg-Wiki entries? I don't know who's in charge of the Garg-wiki, but I was just curious.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 2:23:09 am EDT from 72.244.125.113

As a response to Vaevictis Asmadi, you are correct, most vertebrates (not all!!!) that have no nuclei in red blood cells are mammals! And perhaps garg erythrocytes have nuclei, true, and perhaps they don't. They evolved similiar things to mammals (breast feeding for one) and inevitably must have a common ancestor to mammals (as all things have a common ancestor) and even probably closer to lizards(which includes birds) and fish.(gargates are warm blooded right? Or so says the archives).
All that in perspective they could have either blood feature because "primitive" mammals show anucleated red blood cells. And I quote Bolliger A.
"The most primitive mammalian order is monotremata, which includes the
Australian duckbill. These animals still possess avian characteristics in that
they have a cloaca and are egg-layers. Nevertheless their erythrocytes are not
nucleated like the avian cell"

But I'm in a bad position to argue garg phylogenetics ;)
.
As far as erythocyte cloning, it's actually been done with frogs... but they stopped growing as tadpoles. (and going from tadpole to frog is probably less harsh than from.. fleash to stone-like ;)) Of course that experiment is rather old and heck maybe they'd do better by now :) Just all theories and food for the thought.
White
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 2:16:40 am EDT from 66.130.159.224

Greg B> True, I misspoke when I said that G#9 is done. As of 3/25, Greg said that BG#2 and #3 were done and that both G#9 and BG#4 were being pencilled (so hopefully they're both close to being completed!). However, I still think we should get five straight months with a book a month.

Aside from the massive delay with #2, Hedgecock has been able to put out 1 book every 3 months. (Not ideal, and not what's advertised, I agree, but it is what it is and let's none of us rehash that argument.) Now, we got G#8 in March and BG#2 is slated for April. Since BG#3 has been done since March, there is NO reason it shouldn't get out in May--and if Hedgecock can stay on his 1/3 schedule, we can get G#9 in June. And, since Charlebois has had such lead time on BG#4 and it is also hopefully in the final stages of production, BG#4 should definitely have no problems getting out in July. (At any rate, some combo of G#9/BG#4 should get out in June/July.) So that's 5 months--and because Charlebois has that lead time on BG and Hedgecock has been fairly consistent post-#2, we should be in decent shape to stay relatively on-schedule after that. Here's hoping, anyways!
Meg
posted @ Tue, Apr 15, 2008 12:58:17 am EDT from 138.16.28.211

MEG> Bad Guys #3 is done. We don't know what the status of Gargoyles #9 is, but honestly, given his track record, I'd be beyond amazed if Hedgecock finishes on time.
Greg Bishansky - [<---- The Twelfth Annual Gathering of the Gargoyles]
"Is that not the perfect visual image of life and death? A fish flapping on the carpet, and a fish not flapping on the carpet." - Bill AKA Snake Charmer
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 9:24:35 pm EDT from 75.56.245.4

Patrick >

"You can argue it all you want, but going into the air does NOT change the distance between two points on the ground. It only changes the distance that a thrown falling body can cover before reaching the ground."

I didn't say it did. What you just said is pretty much what I already said (or at least, was trying to say). As for the points about gargoyles being able to make wing adjustments to maintain altitude and continue to cover distance, yeah, I agree.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 9:18:47 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

At least if Diamond jumped the gun by a week, BG#2'll still make it out in April.

And since there should be no delay problems with BG#3 and G#9 (as I believe they're both already done), we might actually, wonder of wonders, have four solid months with a comic a month!!! Hopefully we can get on track for a solid run of monthly fare, at least until BG is completed.
Meg
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 9:16:12 pm EDT from 128.148.41.138

I hope that it really is coming out on the 23rd, and that Diamond didn't goof yet again (as I recall, they have a record for making the announcement a week ahead of time and then having to correct themselves).
Todd Jensen
Gargoyles - did for monstrous-looking statues what "Watership Down" did for rabbits!
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 7:47:39 pm EDT from 4.244.212.45

Great News about Bad Guys #2!

So, taken what has been said today into account, lets go back to my original question. Which is best broken into two questions:
1. How far from Westminster Abbey could the gargoyles go in less then twelve minutes assuming reasonably good travel conditions?
2. Given the range in answer of Question 1, are there any wooded, isolated valleys surrounded by hills in that range?

It just seems to me that both large forests and isolated valleys should be very rare so near to London, but perhaps I'm simply used to the ultra-American nastiness of urban sprawl...
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 6:58:27 pm EDT from 70.237.249.216

You can argue it all you want, but going into the air does NOT change the distance between two points on the ground. It only changes the distance that a thrown falling body can cover before reaching the ground.

A paper airplane is a poor analogy because it has no ability to make adjustments to its own aerodynamics after it's let go. There are birds that can travel great distances while expending very little energy. They do it by riding air currents and using their wings only to steer and maintain altitude after making the initial climb. If forward velocity is constant and the downward force of gravity is balanced by the uplift pressure on the wings, an object in the air does not "fall."

The trick, of course, is to maintain both velocity and the right wing orientation. Air will hold a gliding gargoyle up, but it's also working to slow him or her down. That's where making good use of wind currents and thermal updrafts will come into play.
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
"The cockpit - what is it? " / "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now." - Airplane
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 5:37:49 pm EDT from 76.241.139.225

Chip > I dunno. I just thought of it off the top of my head. Originally I was going to use a ball in my example, but balls don't have wings, so eventually a thrown ball would just start going straight downward, so at some point there wouldn't be much advantage from throwing a ball at a greater and greater height. But a paper airplane has wings, so this is less likely, and with a gargoyle, it's damn near impossible, since a gargoyle can always make adjustments in the positioning of their wings to slow their decline.


Anyway, HOORAY FOR BG2!! YEAAAAHHH! Correct me if I'm wrong, but BG3 is coming out next, and then #9 from the main title, right? Why is that?
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 4:48:20 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

As long as Diamond doesn't move the date, we should be good to go for next Wednesday! Yay!
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 4:32:49 pm EDT from 159.240.11.254

Woo-Hoo! Can't wait! Darn it, I have to though.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 2:56:15 pm EDT from 68.164.6.133

Bad Guys #2 on the 23rd, according to Diamond! Woot!

http://www.diamondcomics.com/shipping/upcomingreleaseskf.txt
Meg
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 2:53:40 pm EDT from 128.148.5.122

Rebel-- thank you! That's the explanation that I read...I'm not crazy! (Relatively) Now...where did I read it...?
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 2:50:38 pm EDT from 68.164.6.133

As I don't live far from London, There are a few woodland areas between where I live and London, but I don't think there are any outside the city. But I think Knights Spur could be in Kent or Surry. Just a thought anyway.
VickyUK - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 2:45:06 pm EDT from 64.12.117.134

And to clarify, I'm only talking about distance relative to the earth's surface, not the total distance along the path of the object.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 2:21:08 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

I understand what Chip meant by writing "altitude = distance". Clearly, altitude and distance aren't the same thing, but being at a higher altitude likely means you'll cover more distance. Imagine lying on the ground and throwing a paper airplane directly forward. Then imagine standing up and throwing the same paper airplane directly forward with the same force. The plane you threw while standing up would go a greater distance, because a greater distance would be needed for it to hit the ground and it'd be going forward during that time.

Even if Knight's Spur isn't that far out of the city, I don't think the London gargs have much to worry about. It seems there's a lot of acres surrounding Knight's Spur, and it seems likely that the London gargs would own that land as well, and for all we know, there could be a huge brick wall surrounding their property. Even if someone saw the mansion from a distance, it's unlikely that they'd be able to see any of the gargoyles, and if they did, they might just assume they're huge birds.
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 2:18:43 pm EDT from 216.45.251.210

Altitude is a measure of distance above sea level, not a measure of velocity. Air density decreases with altitude, and the lower air resistance that results will allow jet aircraft to travel faster (and cover more distance) at higher altitudes than lower ones using the same amount of fuel. Of course, lower air density also means the air is not breathable, which is why you don't see birds (or gargoyles) flying at 30,000 feet.

The higher an object climbs while flying, the longer the actual distance traveled will be as measured along the path of that object. There is no way the distance can be less along a flight pat with greater radius than that of the Earth. Flight doesn't reduce distance, it only reduces travel time.

All that aside, wind is likely the biggest factor in how fast a gargoyle can travel relative to the ground. If you're a gargoyle and the prevailing winds are blowing in the direction you want to go, you're in for an easy trip. If the winds are against you, it's going to be a long night.

74 days left until The Gathering 2008 in Chicago, Illinois!
Patrick - [<-- The Gathering 2008]
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 1:02:03 pm EDT from 24.106.128.24

So right now, I am on break from work and at a local bagel shop thinking "I bet the Gargoyles comic is at home by now". I wish I was home right now, lol
Siren
Don't knock on Death's door. Ring his doorbell and run, he hates that.
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 11:43:57 am EDT from 70.154.233.121

I don't know where Knight's Spur is in relationship to Westminster Abbey, but if I had to guess, then I'd say they were gliding in the same direction as the jet stream or it was a nice windy night that night.
(The Gargoyles Pulse - updated Mondays)
Anthony Tini
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 10:57:40 am EDT from 159.240.11.254

Hmmm...I remember reading somewhere that Atlitude=speed, & I remember thinking that the explanation made sense, but now I cannot remember where I read it, or why it made sense. This bears investigation, in the mean time can anyone confirm or deny this?
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 10:05:00 am EDT from 68.164.6.133

Not sure how fast they can glide, guess that depends on wind currents and such. Chip, or someone, can you explain to me why gliding at higher altitudes would allow them to cover more ground? Seems to me it'd take longer cuz they'd have a longer ascent and descent.
Anyway, IN "M.I.A." Griff and Goliath were pretty high above the city during the dogfighting, perhaps even at cloud level.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 9:13:11 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Umm...I don't know. I've never been to London. Perhaps the real question is how fast can a gargoyle glide? Also how high, because altitude = distance, the higher one goes the more *ahem* ground they can cover.
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 9:06:17 am EDT from 68.164.6.133

So, given that Griff, Constance, Amphart, Lexington and Hudson were able to glide from Westminster Abbey to Knight's Spur in less then twelve minutes can one make a guess about how far outside London the estate is? It just doesn't seem you'd find an isolated, forested mountain valley that close to the city. Am I wrong?
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 8:47:50 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

11th
Chip - [Dragonhunter723 at yahoo dot com]
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable. -- C.S. Lewis
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 5:15:53 am EDT from 72.245.94.53

TENTH in the name of some decent jazz . . . :P
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 2:11:18 am EDT from 157.242.222.47

Ninth!
Battle Beast - [Canada]
That is all I will say.
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 1:07:30 am EDT from 75.152.103.64

8th!
Rebel
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:33:13 am EDT from 216.45.251.210

7th.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:29:13 am EDT from 75.60.221.215

sixth
oneuke
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:10:10 am EDT from 66.167.7.62

I plead the 5th in the name of April 23rd release date of bg #2.
dph_of_rules
Whatever happened to simplicity?
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:07:01 am EDT from 98.20.186.183

4TH in the name of news of Bad Guys #2 this week!
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"Let this mark the beginning of a Golden Age! Between all our clans, both Human and Gargoyle!!!" - Macbeth, "City of Stone"
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:05:55 am EDT from 70.237.249.216

Okay, third then.
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:01:19 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

Second!
Spen
"Come along. You belong. Feel the fizz."
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:00:56 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

2nd~!
The One Known As Mochi - [shogi dot keima dot 08 at gmail dot com]
Current Mood: (>**)> My eyes...
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:00:23 am EDT from 72.199.224.230

First - and again hoping comic #8 will maybe come in the mail this week *sigh*
Wingless
posted @ Mon, Apr 14, 2008 12:00:07 am EDT from 99.245.254.123