Comment Room Archive : Gargoyles : Station Eight

Well, i'd say yeah, i'd like to see some comic book writers writing Gargoyles, but Remember, Greg is very protective of The Gargoyles Universe, and he says he doesn't even want any of us to write stories for Gargoyles either. But it would be a good theory of what others would take it too. And Speaking Of Alan Moore, guys i remember you guys always talk about having Gargoyles be In Kingdom Hearts, well i was thinking, why not have them in The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen as well. All Of DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, And Others are being integrated into that series and i was thinking, why not let Gargoyles be in The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen Universe, (I think Greg would make an exception to both KH And LOEG, because they'll be non canon, and besides, he could write stories for them in these series) i mean i think it would be pretty cool to have Goliath and his clan a part of A League or even somehow combine the Shakespeare Macbeth with The Gargoyles Macbeth for the series, and isn't it right that in both Gargoyles, And League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen The Tempest Play exists. I'm just thinking it'll be a cool concept, how about you guys?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 8:26:36 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

OH, on another note: I just read some of Grant Morissons X-Men, and wondered how GARGOYLES would work if he'd (co)write some of the stories. As mentioned before, TGC was probably the closest we'll ever get to different authors trying to write into the Gargverse (with... devastatingly off-turning results). But this really got me to wonder where some much more gifted and talented comic writers would carry the series... and if it would be accepted by its fans (Morissons latest work, BATMAN RIP, which I've mentioned and praised some time ago, was ripped by many devoted Batman fans, mostly because it introduced many unusual concepts to the story, like story-elements from the golden and silver age re-introduced and adapted).

An Alan-Moore helmed Garg-story would be fantastic though. ;)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 8:12:00 pm EDT from 84.191.242.145

And another thing, i looked at that series you mentioned, it looks interesting!
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 8:08:22 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Well, Maybe but now i'm not sure about doing it. Look guys you're right, i don't care about Fan Fiction (No offense to anyone), this one just caught me by surprise, okay look maybe I'll write a note or an agreement contract and ask if they can sign it to prove it, but only if it's all right with Jennifer and the rest of the Gathering Crew, i don't want to be pressuring you guys even more, so Jennifer can i do what he suggested if i decide that i want to do it? Or No?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 8:07:04 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Excuse me... I'm going to go kick a VERY good friend of mine now.

:: dials Thom's number ::
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 7:58:11 pm EDT from 76.174.154.162

@ Daniel: The safest bet, actually, if you are trying to contact these people is over their agencys. Although it is possible to meet them at conventions or other such things, I would advise you to contact agencies if it comes to such a thing like an acted out script. The reason for this is mainly due to the "professional way". I'm not a convention goer and don't know a lot about the do's and dont's, but most actors - or voice actors - are very responsible with this kind of stuff.

If you have indeed met and talked to Mr. Adcox for example, I wouldadvise for the next stepp to approach him for his agencies details, to further work on this. The reason for this is simply so the actor in question (here Mr. Adcox) is backed by his agency. This way, if you want to work on with this, you can show other actors something apart from the script (in this case, a paper detailing on Mr. Adcox agreeing to do it) and you have it on paper that he has interrest in what you have in mind.

If you want to do it - then do it formally. It is the best and safest way. For example, I talked to an actor to star in one of my films, and he agreed - the next step for me would have been to give him a piece of paper and say "Go ahead, sign it, so we both have it for sure that you'll star in the film." Luckily, he mentioned the contacts to his agency before I could do so, and this way, I could secure him as an actor. The agency forewarded his details and he agreed to do it.

It is a very sad fact that most things in the film business, or let's rather say "the media", are only facts if they're on paper. If somebody agrees to work with you, it doesn't say he will - even though he agrees. I've met many people who gave me their word to help me out or work with me, but in the end, quite a lot backed out, some even without any reason, and most people I've worked with told me that they've had the same experiences. If you have it on paper and it went through the agency, it's a safe bet he will participate in the play. :)

@ Everybody else: On a COMPLETELY unrelated note, and far, FAR OFF TOPIC, I just wanted to mention how FANTASTIC the comic BLANKETS is. I started to read this a few days back, and am absolutely loving it. It is the story of the authors first love, and it is just gorgeous, both from the artwork and from the (at times pretty dark) story of two outcasts.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 7:51:33 pm EDT from 84.191.242.145

In addition to what Asatira already mentioned, another way to help out if you can't attend is to becoming a supporting member or order a Gathering 2009 t-shirt.

A link to the convention web site is posted below. :)
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 6:44:09 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Fine if you guys don't want me to bring it, fine i won't! All i'll say is i thought this could be something interesting to do, and i had a promise to keep, but fine if it's not allowed i will not do it. In fact maybe i should refrain myself from reading or writing Fan Fiction in any way. So if i'm still allowed to come to the Gathering i promise i won't bring it if it's still not allowed and maybe if you guys want, i can tell you everything i want to do when i go to the gathering and you guys could tell me if it's alright or not, and if not I'll abandon them you know you guys could help me prepare for the Gathering. But if i am right now banned from the Gathering, I'll just say i thought it was nice the last gathering, and i hope it'll continue and i will Say Long Live Gargoyles.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 5:50:52 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Okay, going to post something a little more constructive. If a repost of an earlier tidbit.

There are plenty of people here who, for many reasons, are unable to attend the Gathering this year. Many of you would like to contribute something to help out. The Gathering is holding an auction of donated art items in the months of June and July. Art of all kinds are being accepted, as are commission slots. The deadline for submissions are to be postmarked by May 31. It's a bit tight, but there's still time to send things in. If you submit, you'll receive recognition of your contribution in the program and on the website.

Contact information is available on the Gathering '09 frontpage for those who have questions.
Asatira
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 5:50:00 pm EDT from 68.190.20.172

Daniel: <Well, guys to tell you the truth, look I've already shown it to Thom Adcox last Gathering, he liked it, thought it was pretty good and hoped that i would bring it back for the next Gathering, I'm just saying, really! I did, i know i should've told you this before but sort of i wasn't sure, I'm sorry that i kept it from you okay?>

Sorry, dude, but the fact that you conveniently decided to reveal this little piece of info right after Frau Direktor swung the hammer at you definitely brings its validity into question. You want my advice? Stop digging your hole any deeper and find a way to dig yourself out of it. Or something.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"We're in a shooting war. We need something to shoot." Commander Adama ("Battlestar Galactica")
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 5:42:27 pm EDT from 76.123.51.219

Yes this Fan Fiction i found out about before the 2008 Gathering, i didn't know about this site, so i just read it, thought it would be nice to show to Greg and have the cast read from it, maybe even give copies of it for them to keep, and you know, see what's wrong with this story. However at the Gathering, When i heard about Fan Fiction and how Greg feels about it, i wasn't sure if this was Fan Fiction or not but i could not take a chance so i didn't show it to him, i was going to later find out if this is Fan Fiction and if it wasn't maybe show it to him in another Gathering (But i now know it's fan fiction and it's out of the question to show it to him), so well i asked (I did not beg, if they say no, it's no, i understood that) Keith David And Thom Adcox if they could read with me this story and well Keith David I'm not saying he said no, but well we sort of weren't able to, but They both said they would be delighted to do it if they had time, so i waited, it turns out later Thom Adcox came with me, and he started reading it with me, of course they called us out because they had to prepare the room for something, but as we walked out, he told me it's pretty good. Later at the closing of the Gathering i asked him if he had time and he said no for Greg needs him for something, so well i said okay and waited, later after he checked out of the hotel he told me again it's pretty good and he hopes that i come to the Next Gathering and we could continue reading from it, and i promised i would do so. And That's the whole story. But look please don't yell at me or say Why didn't you tell this to us before?, or even say that was stupid for you to make that promise, okay? I'm Sorry!
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 5:41:50 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Well, guys to tell you the truth, look I've already shown it to Thom Adcox last Gathering, he liked it, thought it was pretty good and hoped that i would bring it back for the next Gathering, I'm just saying, really! I did, i know i should've told you this before but sort of i wasn't sure, I'm sorry that i kept it from you okay? So if this means I'm banned from Any Future Gathering fine, go ahead, i wanted to attend it, but if it's made clear that I'm not welcome there after what happened last Gathering, fine! Just tell me if I'm banned right now and i promise i won't show up.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 5:25:28 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Daniel: I AM the boss when it comes to The Gathering. I am going to tell you once and I will not say it again...

If I hear you planning to corner ANY of our guests, I will revoke your registration even before you get there. If I see you cornering any guest with a stack of papers in your hand AT the convention, I have a very nice security staff that will take your badge and show you to the door.

Part of your admission to the convention is that you agree to follow the rules of the convention or you will immediately be kicked out of the convention. No refund. No apologies. NO RE-ENTRY.

So please, don't make me have to do such a thing and drop this plan immediately.
Jennifer "CrzyDemona" Anderson
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 4:43:19 pm EDT from 76.174.154.162

No, it will not succeed. This is not a trend we will allow to start because it is annoying to the guests. Annoyed guests do not come back to future conventions. Come to the con. Attend the Q&As and the Radio Play. But please do not come with scripts in hand planning to monopolize any of the guests time with a personal project.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 4:12:43 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

But i'm just asking no, it won't ruin my reputation in fact if it succeeds i could create a new trend right?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 4:03:46 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

UM, I'll think about it, Really!
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 3:47:55 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Daniel > You say you dont know what to do with it. We are telling you what to do with it: to not do it. Even if you ask, its not going to happen and you'll probably end up making a bad impression to the voice actors and Gathering staff as being a creepy and stubborn fan to be avoided. You dont want that label.

We're not being subtle anymore. We are telling you point blank: DONT DO IT. Its a bad idea that will not work out in your favor.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 2:50:58 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Daniel: <i just don't know what to do Okay?>

Well, for starters, you can try reading this:

http://fanfic.gargoyles-fans.org/search_result.php?author=&title=A+Lesson+in+Grammar&saga=
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!" -The Joker
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 2:25:19 pm EDT from 76.123.51.219

Okay, but look,really, i just don't see what's the problem in trying it just once?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 12:54:08 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

I am only one of the people in charge. As Bill Cosby once said, "I am not the boss... I've seen the boss's job and I do not want it."
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 12:44:57 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Sorry For The Double Board.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 12:24:31 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Well i didn't say i like this fan fiction, i just said it caught me by surprise, and sorry i didn't know Patrick was in charge of This Gathering, but also i just assumed that Most Of The Cast And Crew will be there because they were in the 2006 Gathering In Los Angeles. Look, it's not really a big deal to me about Fan Fiction, i just for once wanted to hear voices in this, And also aren't the cast going to read the radio play for free? Look please no one have any bad feelings about me, i just don't know what to do Okay?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 12:24:08 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

While we would love to have the entire voice cast at the convention, realistically it will never happen because there's always going to be people who have prior commitments for work or personal matters. Some in the voice cast have large appearance fees that only the big for-profit corporate-run "Trek" conventions can afford. A few just do not do conventions, period. So yes, I think I know what I'm talking about in these matters.

And again I will say, this idea of asking the guests to read fanfic is not something I believe them will appreciate. A guest agreeing to do the Radio Play as part of their participation in the convention does not mean they want to be hit up by random people to perform at the drop of a hat. It's as disrespectful to walk up to an actor and say, "Do this line for me!" as it is to approach an artist and say, "Draw me something!" or approach a comedian and demand, "Make me laugh!"
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 11:50:58 am EDT from 173.88.135.205

Daniel> I'm guessing that you don't realize that Patrick is the co-chair of this year's Gathering. So when you contradict him and say that you're certain all of the cast will be there and will have time to read the story you intend to bring is kind of silly. He's running the con. He knows what he's talking about. Sure, having the con in L.A. makes it easier for more of the cast and crew to show up because it's more convenient for them, but they also have jobs and prior commitments, so there is no guarantee that any more of the original cast will show up aside from those who are already confirmed as guests.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but I don't think what you are proposing sounds like a fun idea that everyone is going to enjoy. Yes, I think it's safe to say that everyone has dreamed about the original cast reading one of their favorite fanfictions. I know I always imagine their voices when I read a good fanfiction story. But the Gathering has been going on for 12 years now. If it was possible to get the actors to sit down and read a fanfiction script, don't you think some of the people who have written dozens of fanfictions of their own and been to many Gatherings would have tried it already? I'm glad you found a fanfiction you like, but that doesn't mean a special exception should be made.

I will state it plainly: this is not a good idea. You should not do it. You have been told that you shouldn't do this by a member of the Gathering staff. You are proposing taking up a big chunk of what spare time the voice actors have. How would you feel if you didn't get to talk with Keith David because some other fan was monopolising his time with a personal project? You are intending to hand them prose stories, not scripts, and have them go through and hunt for their characters lines of dialogue, which is likely to be even more frustrating to the actors and will take up even more of their time. Voice acting is a profession and while I've met many voice actors who are very nice people and will happily perform for audiences, I have yet to see any who will perform a full script for one person for free.

It is not a good idea and I don't think you should go through with it.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 8:54:43 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Landon > Another fine point. I whole-heartedly agree.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 8:09:36 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Daniel - Okay, I'll be the blunt a-hole and say what everyone else is thinking: it's creepy. People that have to deal with fame are very attuned to stalker behavior and a fan that asks for an unorthodox, off-schedule favor will set off alarms in their head. You'll be requesting a *personal performance* of unpublished material. It'll make them uncomfortable. Folks that run conventions want their guests to be as comfortable as possible and that's why everyone is telling you no.

Requesting an autograph or a picture is fine. Maybe even hanging out if you're lucky. Requesting a personal performance of something they've never seen is creepy. Something like that needs to be public, scheduled, and approved by convention staff and the talent.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 2:25:41 am EDT from 216.250.163.157

Daniel > We know you are not showing it to Greg; we know you just want the cast to read it outloud. But here is what we are trying to tell you:
(1) Not all of the cast will be at the Gathering so you wouldnt have a complete set of voice actors.
(2) It would be very difficult (near impossible, I imagine) to get the cast members who are there to sit down together for an hour and do something that is not already scheduled into their very busy Gathering schedule.
(3) They are already doing the eagerly-awaited Radio Play with Greg; why sit in a corner of a room with a single fan to indulge in his desire?
(4) Even if they appear to be really nice people, they might be as against fanfiction as some people are or have some other reason for not doing it. Why should they indulge in your fan request when tons of other fans have other such requests? If they did one, they'd have to do all of them.
(5) It's not even your fanfiction! I still dont know why you are making a big deal of this when you yourself said that you didnt like fanfiction and did not see the point in writing something you cant publish (since you keep asking how to get your original story published).

There. You have asked us our ideas and not a single person who answered you agreed that it was a good idea to get the Gargoyles cast to read a fanfiction outloud just for your amusement.

Daniel - 'I'm just asking didn't you guys ever want to hear the actual voices in Fan Fiction?'

In response to this, yes. There are a lot of fanfictions out there that I would love to see animated/filmed/voiced/brought to life in some way. But that is the point of a fanfiction: to write out an idea that you have that you think is brilliant that will never make it to an audience wider than fellow fans. Some creators dont mind and even enjoy reading fanfiction. Its Greg's choice not to do so, for good reasons, so just let it be.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 1:21:09 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Daniel> You seem to be missing the fact that the portion of the cast that will be at the Gathering won't have time to do the reading for you. Nobody said you wanted it to *be* the Radio Play, but the fact that it would be *in addition to* the Radio Play would make it even more problematic. There isn't really that much time during the Gathering that the guests aren't busy doing a myriad of other things, so we don't want you to ask and be disappointed or surprised when they say they can't.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Sun, May 17, 2009 12:57:25 am EDT from 24.99.188.243

And another if you got the wrong idea I'm not going to suggest that this be the radio play, Greg will have nothing to do with this. I'm just going to gather the cast somewhere else have us sit down and read out loud the fan fiction. Greg will not be involved in this (Unless He Wants to, but i know it's highly unlikely). Allrigiht?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 10:35:56 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

But yeah this Fan Fiction just caught me by surprise, i don't really understand fan fiction, but the idea Of Gargoyles Meets The Ghostbusters is very intriguing so i just want to hear the voices of the characters for once say something that we'll never hear them say, like Ray Stanz Or Peter Venkman or hearing Elisa say something like Stay Puft Marshmallow Man you know. I'm just asking didn't you guys ever want to hear the actual voices in Fan Fiction?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 10:33:01 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Well, No I'm not showing it to Greg, I'm showing it to the cast, Greg has no power over that, it's only not allowed to show it to him, but the cast don't write the scripts for Gargoyles, and they don't have a thing in which they can get sued if they read fan fiction so it's safe to give it to them. Besides i met Thom Adcox and Keith David and they look like they wouldn't have a problem reading it and reading the radio play as well. And whoever said I'm not sure about my series after i got your words from it. I know i want to do a Super-Soldier Project and i still have plans for it. Also no, I'm sure all of the cast or something will be there, they did last time it was in Los Angeles. Also they will have time for it, I'm sure, in fact Thom said he'd like to see me again next Gathering, and that we'll have more time to see each other so i think it can be arranged. But yeah, i need to find out who wrote this story and ask him or her for permission. But otherwise, i think it's a good idea to have the Cast Read Their parts, all they have to do is read the lines of their characters, not the said Demona part or something. But Should i do this. I don't want people to immediately again start attacking me on this board because I'm doing something?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 10:29:34 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

@ Landon: :)
Don't worry about harrassing anybody with this. Most bands/artists randomly add/write to people - even though Twitter is Twitter, I think most people will be surprised that the show they Tweeted about still is alive and kicking (although in another format).

Just remember - there IS no bad promotion right now. Even athread of pissed Star Wars fans, regarding missing SW content would be good promotion. ;)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 5:15:00 pm EDT from 84.191.212.132

Even if all the voice actors from the show were going to be at the convention (sorry, but many of them will not), I would advise against making any plans to pester them to read lines from a fanfic so you can record them. Most guests will not have the time and will be put off by the request. Our guests being annoyed by crazy requests is something the con staff will not be pleased with.
Patrick - [<-- Gathering 2009]
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 5:10:04 pm EDT from 173.88.135.205

Brook - Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've harassed everyone who posted about it in the past 24 hours and will continue. Twitter refined their @reply system: http://blog.twitter.com/2009/05/small-settings-update.html so it shouldn't be too annoying.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 4:54:49 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Also, the story is not in script format, which would make it pretty tough for them to read. And the voice actors only have a limited amount of time at the Gathering, which gets divided between panels, other scheduled events, and interacting with the fans. I don't think it would be very fair for you to take up so much of their time trying to get them to read a fanfiction in addition to the radio play that they already participate in.

That plus what everyone else has said. I'm sure any number of fanfiction writers would love to have the original cast perform their work. I don't see why this would be a special case, which it would have to be if the voice actors didn't want to end up doing a reading of every fanfiction out there.

That plus everything
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 4:49:54 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Daniel> "Not My Series, The Fan Fiction i just showed, The Gargoyles Meets The Ghostbusters One, that's what i want to make copies of and bring to The Gathering for the Cast to Read!"

Knowing Greg W.'s policy on avoiding fanfiction, I highly doubt that he would approve of such a thing. You should just forget about it; it ain't gonna happen.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra582 at gmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 3:05:40 pm EDT from 69.223.184.85

Daniel > No way should you print out someone else's fanfiction and ask the cast to act it. They wont do it and you could get in trouble. Why are you so concerned with someone else's fanfiction seeing as you dont like fanfiction anyway? Worry about your own story, seeing as now youre uncertain about it because of the critques we've given you.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 1:29:07 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Do not take printed copies of a fic that isn't yours to the Gathering and show it to the actors. At least not without asking the author first who might not like such a thing very much. Neither might the actors.

(Reminds me of the case where someone compiled her real person slash fic into a book and intended to give to the persons starring in the fics. At least those were her own work, not someone else, afair.)

And the anthology at the Gathering is published, just neither commercial nor officially sanctioned, so more like a fanzine.
Anonymouse
posted @ Sat, May 16, 2009 12:07:32 pm EDT from 88.130.179.181

Not My Series, The Fan Fiction i just showed, The Gargoyles Meets The Ghostbusters One, that's what i want to make copies of and bring to The Gathering for the Cast to Read! Also, yeah i'll try to call Bungie and Microsoft and ask them for permission.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 11:16:20 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Just from a quick perusal of Wikipedia, Rooster Teeth is pretty much the premier machinima studio and they got very lucky that Bungie liked and respected their work and was willing to help make a deal happen so that they could legally use the Halo assets without legal issue. It does not sound like either Bungie or Microsoft just threw open the doors and said that anyone can use the models from Halo for whatever purpose anytime. So I would be very careful about assuming that you can make money off of machinima just because one studio is making it work.

I think your conclusion that Greg is "angry" at fanfiction is not entirely correct. From what I've seen him say, Greg see fanfiction as a mixed blessing. It's flattering on the one hand, but kind of weird and disconcerting to see people playing around with characters you created on the other. I think any artist us more flattered to see fans producing original works of their own because they felt inspired by the creator's work rather than their own version of the creator's original work. But I never got the impression that Greg hates fanfiction writers or is angry with them. As I understand it, he has a very friend;y relationship with some fans who write fanfiction. They just don't discuss their fanfiction works with him.

OK, now I am thoroughly confused. You keep saying that you aren't interested in writing fanfiction and that you want this project of yours to be original and not too similar to "Gargoyles." So why are you talking about printing up copies of it (Have you actually written some of the story?), taking it to the Gathering, and asking the voice actors to read "their" characters? Who are "their" characters if this is an original work and not a "Gargoyles" fanfiction?
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 11:01:17 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Daniel> Really where are there published Gargoyles Fan Fiction?

Does everything you write have to be published? Can't you just write for fun?
Antiyonder
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 10:17:33 pm EDT from 72.87.7.89

Well Red Vs. Blue is making Money by selling DVDs, and so is The Strangerhood, so yeah i (Or Rather my school) can earn money from that. Yeah.Also well, I'm also not sure about writing Fan Fiction because well, when i attended the Last Gathering and someone asked Greg about Fan Fiction he said, "On one hand i like how it proved to be popular enough to gain others writing stories about it, but on the other hand, HEY THEY'RE MY CHARACTERS, WHAT ARE YOU DOING". So well i saw how angry he was at Fan Fiction and also he advised people to write original ideas and so well i thought of doing that, for i don't want him to be angry at me. Also Really where are there published Gargoyles Fan Fiction? And No, the Cthulhu books made after Lovecraft are not fan fiction, in fact most crossover sources accept them as happening. Also Well, I plan to print out many copies of the story i just showed you, take it to the Gathering, but not show it to Greg, i know that's out of the question. But share it with the Cast Of Gargoyles, like Thom Adcox, Keith David, Marina Sirtis, Jeff Bennet, Bill Faggerbakke and any other Gargoyle Actor who'll appear in the next gathering. I'll ask if they can read from it their characters and sort of have this be a fan Radio Play! I mean it's worth a try, they are their characters to the end, even in Non Canon Stories (Since hey, they were in the Goliath Chronicles). And well i want to hear the characters in Fan Fiction with their voices. So that's what i hope to do!
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 9:49:55 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

"@replies would work, but I want to keep GargoylesNews focused and not risk alienating any tenuous followers."

I don't think you would. Remember - it's all good promotion!!

Seriously, that's what GARGOYLES-news is for. :)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 2:31:26 pm EDT from 84.191.254.218

I find this link interesting: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=gargoyles

It shows every single Twitter post containing the word 'gargoyles'. I've been following its feed for about a month. Every day several different people tweet about Gargoyles. Usually it's about watching the reruns late at night or reminiscing, but the vast majority don't seem aware of the DVDs, the comics, or that the property ISN'T dead.

I've pondered about how to reach them. Direct messages only work to your own followers. @replies would work, but I want to keep GargoylesNews focused and not risk alienating any tenuous followers. Does anyone with an existing personal Twitter page want to undertake cold calling these people? Just an idea. I've probably seen 50 people mentioning Gargoyles in just a few weeks. When sales are below 7,000, fifty people is a significant number.

I've also found this site: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Disneys-Gargoyles/10206518586

5,694 fans! Does anyone know who maintains that site or can anyone update it? I haven't paid attention to Facebook in years so I don't really know how it works anymore, but I think it's now the most popular social network by far. The fan page could really use an update, like an easy Amazon link to the trades and DVDs or something.
Landon Thomas - [<- Gargoyles News Twitter Feed]
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 1:48:10 pm EDT from 216.250.163.157

Fanfiction> I agree that it is a double-edged sword, for many of the reasons mentioned already. Yes, you do have to be pretty well versed in the fiction you're drawing from when you write fanfiction so that it feels true to the canon. But just because you created the characters or the world doesn't mean that you can have them do whatever you want and have it feel believable. As you write, you do have to ask yourself who your characters are and whether it fits with their personalities for them to laugh, cry, kill, or fall in love when your idea dictates that they do. The benefit of fanfiction is that someone else has already created a world and characters and if you can replicate them faithfully, at least part of the work has been done already.

The skills you learn from writing fanfiction do have applications in real paying work. There's the obvious licensed fiction, like the Star Trek and Star Wars books, comics, etc. But knowing how to write using characters you yourself did not create can have other uses. Getting into the television business is pretty difficult these days. If you go to the networks with an idea for a new show, chances are they aren't going to say "Why sure, totally unknown writer! We'll produce your show and put it in a primetime slot with plenty of advertising and while we're at it would you like some cookies?" More than likely, you're going to have to work your way up, which means at some point, you will probably be writing stories about characters you did not create. And while it's not the only skill you will need, if you already know how to write about other people's characters and worlds, so much the better.

It's not just TV, of course. Selling your writing anywhere is hard. Fanfiction is not only good practice, but it gives you a built-in audience and gets your name out there. Publisher probably aren't going to care that you've written 30 fanfiction stories, but if you have a loyal base of readers of your fanfiction and you can get your foot in the door with a publisher, you'll likely be able to convince these readers to check out your original published work.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe there have been cases of fanfiction writers taking a concept that they originally used for a fanfiction story, reworking it with new, original characters and settings, and transforming it into an original work.

Daniel> I'm a little confused why you're concerned about the potentially limited publishing options for fanfiction when you're planning to do stories in the medium of machinama. Since you don't own any of the artwork and models from Halo or The Sims or anything, your chances of making money off of work using those assets are probably slim to none.

Anonymouse> TransFormers is probably one of the more fan-influenced properties out there, at least that I know of. Back in the Beast Wars days, when the internet was a hair more civilized and the show's creators weren't afraid to interact pretty directly with the fans, a particularly active fan could sometimes enjoy the pleasure of seeing his or her screenname make it into the show as a sector, place name or....something else. And if I remember right, one of Rattrap's nicknames for Inferno - "blender butt" - came from the fans. And I'm shocked their hasn't been a lawsuit over Hasbro releasing a TransFormers movie toy named "Dispensor."

Thanks for mentioning the Marion Zimmer Bradley incident. I hadn't heard about it before and it's a good example to have on hand for the times when fans come in here and suggests that Greg is just being overly cautious with his zero-tolerance fanfiction policy.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 10:31:14 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

@Brook: The difference is, that those authors can't sanction those books and there are many more out there, including for example Wide Sargasso Sea and few of the Gone with the Wind books.
But there were indeed anthologies, sanctioned by the authors of the original works, choke full with fanfiction. Look up Marion Zimmer Bradley (creator of the Darkover series), who had Darkover fanfiction printed, there you'll have the reason why Greg categorically refuses to get anywhere near fanfiction and similar.
Anonymouse
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 9:49:50 am EDT from 88.130.160.220

@ Anonymous: I just want to throw in, that everything that came after Lovecraft that included Cthulhu oder parts of his mythos could also be regarded as fanfiction. Same goes with dozens of fantasy-books which take LORD OF THE RINGS as a starting point.
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 9:06:03 am EDT from 84.191.201.111

Daniel> please, no offense to any fan fiction writer or reader, cause well, what's the point of writing something that's not going to exist anywhere outside of the internet, you can't publish it anywhere else but online

Fanfiction is much, much older than the internet (we are talking 17th century and older here).

Fanzines (which may contain fanfiction) still get published to this day. There was a time when some fanfiction got compiled into author-sanctioned books freely orderable and available in book stores (due to the trappings of copyrights that's generally not done anymore).

Some authors who wrote fanfiction once upon a time, are published authors of original works today, and some keep to their roots and still produce fanfiction.

Gargoyles has books of printed fanfiction.

There are enough instances of fanon becoming canon (for example the term Seekers used in Transformers, stems from the fans and got adopted into canon).

And fanfiction is in a way more challenging and easier than original fiction. Because as you said, you got to know the characters and the world you are using, but you also do have those information, you don't need to create the characters and the world in all their facets.

For some people writing fanfiction is just to difficult, although your ideas don't sound so different from average fanfiction. It's just a bunch of characters and concepts from other works with new names slapped on. One can find that in quite a few fanfictions, too.

Writing good stories, whether they be original or fanfiction, is very difficult and few truly master it.
Anonymouse
posted @ Fri, May 15, 2009 8:40:37 am EDT from 88.130.160.220

Daniel> As I've been saying, it's not so much that the ideas you've mentioned could never be put together in a new and original way; it's more that every idea you bring up for this story is something that you yourself compare to an existing story, and a lot of them seem to come from "Gargoyles," or at least bear a striking similarity to it. So maybe you're thinking more of Lex Luthor than David Xanatos as an inspiration for your rich guy, but what are you going to add that makes your character unlike either David Xanatos or Lex Luthor, or hopefully, any other existing rich antagonist character. It's fine to take some inspiration from "Gargoyles," but what you've told us about your story seems to pull way too much from just that one source. You have a group of warriors from the past who decide to protect a city in the present, a rich guy who is first their benefactor, then their enemy, a woman who helps them learn about the modern world and becomes a love interest for the leader of the heroes, a KKK-like group that is an enemy of your heroes, and possibly a series of villains who pass down an alter ego from generation to generation. That's just way too much material from "Gargoyles" for comfort. If you don't want to shelve it, and i don't necessarily think you should, I think you should really consider what aspects of this story excite you. Not just what you think is cool, but what you find interesting and exciting to write about. Focus on those elements and dump anything that doesn't support them. As other people have suggested, start to really work out who your characters are and what kind of world they live in. Do some research that doesn't involve looking at other works of fiction. If you want your heroes to be medieval knights, start researching knights and the time and country you think they would come from. If you think they should be from the present day instead, then research modern weapons technology and soldiers. Don't worry about a whole big series of stories; just concentrate on you first storyline. You can have some ideas for future stories in the back of your head, but don't get so focused on the whole epic that you lose site of writing any of the stories or letting your audience get yo know your characters. Plus, stories evolve as you write them, so maybe you'll discover that your lead hero isn't going to care about falling in love anytime soon or that there is no way a KKK-like organization would even exist in the world you've created.

I took a glance at the story you linked to. It seems to be a Real Ghostbusters/Gargoyles crossover and yes, it is fanfiction.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 4:58:54 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Daniel> I get your attitude. Fanfiction, like a lot of peripheral things to the core series, is a take it or leave it. As for your project, I am not discouraging you from working on it. All I'm asking is take some time to truly make it your own. There is nothing wrong with taking inspiration from works you like; it's not coming up with completely new things, it's making your interpretation and use of them your own and new. I think, in the case of this story, is what I've said before: work on the world these characters are going to interact in, come up with the starting characters and their identities, and build the stories around that. As you go, you may find a really valid, in-world reason for your hate group or you may find it adds nothing. You may find a need for secondary characters who help your heroes, but may feel the romance isn't necessary, or it may be more than one. And get critiques of the actual STORIES you write. What sounds like a ripoff when described/summarized may actually be delivered in a unique and novel way in story.
Asatira
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 12:44:16 pm EDT from 68.190.20.172

Daniel > 'not to mention it's hard, i have to stay close to the characters study their every personality, learn how they'd react and what they'd say!'

Just wanted to add that, if you write an original story, you have to do the same thing for your own characters. You have to know your characters inside and out, from top to bottom. Sure, it might be easier since you wrote them yourself, but you still have to create believable and life-like characters from scratch.

Writing is not so easy as having an idea that you think could work and throwing it together. If it was, the world would be doomed! You must have a decent idea that others are willing to spend the time and money to know more about, then you have to have the ability to bring life to the idea. After that, you must find a way to get your work to an audience. I dont claim to know everything because I am not a published author but I want to be one, if at all possible. I know the long, difficult, and possibly non-reachable road that is ahead of me. Do you?
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 12:38:48 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

Daniel > I take no offense to your thoughts on fanfiction, even though I am both an author and a reader of fanfiction. I love reading fanfiction because, if there is no new matarial, like for Gargoyles and other such worlds, what else can I enjoy except fanfiction? And writing is even better. Writing fanfiction allows me to practice my writing without stress. Its a great exercise to improve upon your writing skills. I got my start on writing with fanfiction and then I started writing my own original ideas. I still write fanfiction because it gives me practice.

As to your story, its up to you whether to put it away or try to improve upon it as we have suggested. If you can make it your own, then keep working on it. If you just keep hitting a dead end, I would take a mental break from it and come back to it when you have a breakthrough.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 12:24:53 pm EDT from 209.243.38.9

oh and just about why i don't know about writing fan fiction, well i don't see a point in it, please, no offense to any fan fiction writer or reader, cause well, what's the point of writing something that's not going to exist anywhere outside of the internet, you can't publish it anywhere else but online, i mean again no offense I'm not saying anything bad, i'm just saying i don't see how it's beneficial, not to mention it's hard, i have to stay close to the characters study their every personality, learn how they'd react and what they'd say! Look i just don't see what's the point of writing something that won't exist anywhere outside of Fandom And The Internet and won't be considered canon?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 12:16:39 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Well i don't really know about writing fan fiction, but i wasn't just taking random ideas from previous sources and putting them all together, really the idea of super soldiers and a kkk/qm like group and a rich man being a villain (I knew Lex Luthor before i knew Xanatos) has been in my head for some time. So i don't know, should i just put this on the shelf and try something else? Which by the way guys, speaking of fan fiction i just want to know if this is Fan Fiction:Getting to Know You Real Ghostbusters Billionaire David Xanatos hires the Ghostbusters to find a pesky group of gargoyles that have been giving him trouble of late. (Published in Adventures in Slime and Time 4) http://www.jeffreysmorris.com/fanfic/rgb/gettoknowyou.html, because i need to know.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 12:08:54 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

If I recall correctly, our last discussion of Temptation was the possible reasoning behind Demona's choice to use Brooklyn for this particular plan (more specifically, did she target him on purpose, or was he a target of opportunity). Much musing on the personality of Demona and the trio ensued.
Kerry (Kth) Boyd
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 9:56:41 am EDT from 24.99.188.243

I feel like we've had this Demona/Brooklyn conversation about Temptation before... *shrugs* Oh well. Its too early for my brain to make a contribution.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 8:04:30 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

I still think Demona should just have gone "Um.. this is wrong... hold on a second... uh darn, I picked the wrong spell..."

Although I guess Brooklyn would be clever enough to not trust that statement... ;)

TEMPTATION is still one of my favourite Episodes. It pretty much sets the controlls for Brooklyn to be the sarcastic and melancholic (at times seemingly depressed) character he is for the rest of the series (so far, I'm really interrested how the Timedancing will affect his character).
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Thu, May 14, 2009 7:22:08 am EDT from 84.191.204.133

Gargoyleslady> "Brooklyn didn't trust her at first and yet... he did anyway? I also think that Demona had to cook up something he would believe."

If I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, you want to know why Brooklyn eventually trusted Demona. As Goliath pointed out at the end, Demona showed Brooklyn just enough evidence to support her argument that humans were dangerous and Goliath was being foolish to expect any kind of peace with them. The evidence shown, albeit biased evidence, was enough for Brooklyn to consider her argument. And he probably did think the spell would be a clarity spell, not a compulsion/enslavement spell. How many people wish others could see things more "clearly"? And this was their first meeting with Demona after the fight on the castle; the pattern of betrayal and the depth of her hatred had not been truly established amongst the clan.
Asatira
posted @ Wed, May 13, 2009 11:11:09 pm EDT from 68.190.20.172

I think that if Demona had won Brooklyn over and Goliath had remained under the spell as a mindless zombie-goyle, Brooklyn might have become her second-in-command (if she ever felt the need for one). We know from "Long Way to Morning" that she doesn't respect Hudson's age and wisdom, so I don't think she'd have attempted to name him as her second, unlike Goliath--and out of the trio, Brooklyn is the obvious choice.

This is, of course, presupposing that she could get back in the clan, which is a big "if".
Rebel
posted @ Wed, May 13, 2009 10:41:39 pm EDT from 75.66.1.136

Brooklyn didn't trust her at first and yet... he did anyway? I also think that Demona had to cook up something he would believe.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, May 13, 2009 8:30:36 pm EDT from 209.235.111.116

Gargoyleslady> I think it depends on how you mean "using him as a pawn." It's quite clear that her plan was to put Goliath under the spell, and get the Grimorum as a nice bonus. She was so committed to the goal of getting Goliath ynder her control that she was willing to be at least a little dishonest with Brooklyn about the nature of the spell she intended to cast and risk losing him as an ally. But if she had managed to completely win him over to her way of thinking and he hadn't turned on her once he saw what she did to Goliath, would she have considered him an equal partner in her crusade? I'm not sure, but I'd hesitate to say for certain that she would reject him or just keep using him to try to achieve greater goals.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Wed, May 13, 2009 8:24:41 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

I figured out that Demona was using Brooklyn as a pawn to get to Goliath. As long the clan was at the castle, she did not have free access. I also determined that Brooklyn's anger at Demona is his own guilt and he kicked himself later for trusting her in the first place. Which he didn't at first.
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, May 13, 2009 7:48:04 pm EDT from 209.235.111.116

I'd have to say yes. And the Grimorum, of course.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Wed, May 13, 2009 6:54:29 pm EDT from 70.237.142.16

I want to ask this here before I check the archives and submit it to Greg. In Temptation, was Demona using Brooklyn as a pawn to get to Goliath?
Gargoyleslady - [kendal dot renfro at yahoo dot com]
posted @ Wed, May 13, 2009 6:48:57 pm EDT from 209.235.111.116

**Steps In, sees the CR flat-lining**

PADDLES!!!

Three-two-one, CLEAR!!

**some pulse resumes**

Let's hope that remains stable for the time being.

Nothing to contribute to current discussions, just wanted to say that I finally had a chance to visit my comic shop in Phoenix and reserved my copy of Clan Building, Volume II. I also made a note to tell them to order some copies of the Bad Guys Trade as well when it comes available. That's one more Garg customer for them . . . and I've got the feeling they had about 10 regular Garg customers when the series was still alive and well, so everyone counts, I guess.

On an additional side note, the only issue they still had on the stands was "Reunion" . . . not as relevant to Volume II as say, Issues 7 & 8, but it does reintroduce Coldstone, Coldsteel, and Coldfire as well as start Shari's storytelling, right?

**Leaves CR trying to get out of the scrubs he's got on**
Phoenician
"The Suspense is Terrible . . . I Hope it Lasts" -- Willy Wonka
posted @ Wed, May 13, 2009 5:01:49 pm EDT from 68.98.115.219

No problem Lurker. It was my lifelong dream to pitch a Gargoyles-rip-off, where everything is pretty much the same, except for that instead of medieval GARGOYLES, the protagonists would have been Dinosaurs, Goliath would have been overweight and Bronx would have been changed to a Babysaurus.

Kinda like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGfeDMJU0_w

But alas, my dream is over...
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Tue, May 12, 2009 11:20:20 am EDT from 84.191.174.203

All right Brook. You understood exactly what I was trying to do. Thank you.
Lurker
posted @ Tue, May 12, 2009 10:51:19 am EDT from 70.244.251.181

HoE: He was just showing (in a rather ironic manner) how ideas can be stolen and sold as 'orriginal'.

And he is right.

And that idea sounds kinda dted to me though, Lurker.
;)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Tue, May 12, 2009 7:32:59 am EDT from 84.191.174.203

I'm not sure it's very prudent to outline ideas for things you are or might be working on in a public forum where anyone can read them.
Harvester of Eyes - [Minstrel75 at gmail dot com]
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!" -The Joker
posted @ Tue, May 12, 2009 6:49:04 am EDT from 76.123.51.219

All this talk of original stories and stuff has really squeezed my mind grapes and I have brought out an entirely new story!

Check this out:

In the 22nd century, this genius rich megalomaniac is working on time travel but tells his genius *though not as much of a genius* assistant that it is for the benefit of mankind. Finding cures for modern diseases that may be cured by examining them in their early stage.

After finally breaking the time continuum, the megalomaniac (Hereafter called MM) secretly pluck famous people BEFORE their life's work is accomplished, Caesar, Genghis Khan, Joan of Arc, etc. Somehow, this restructures the world to the benefit of MM. The geniuses and the displaced heroes are not affected by the history change because a time bubble shielded them from the rewrite.

The Assistant (Hereafter called TA) is abhorred by the new dystopian world and breaks the Famous People (FP) free and tries to return them. It is then discovered that the MM implanted a device that creates a Time Barrier into all the FP. Any time they try to time travel they are returned to the future present and any attempt to remove the device will kill them. Im not sure why he didnt just kill the FP yet, I just thought this up right now.

SO, this new team of time displaced heroes must learn to work together, defeat the MM, get the devices out, and return back to their respective times.

It should be noted that since it is the future, there are existing devices that, when implanted, work as a personal translator. Thats how they come to understand each other.

Now THATS a story! A show, nah too long. A book, yeah. I may try to write a book on this concept. Copyright pending. haha.
Lurker
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 8:16:31 pm EDT from 70.244.251.181

Daniel > I agree with Demonskrye 100%. Its too much of you borrowing from other sources and throwing them together, not because they could work together but because you like them. Its like youre taking pieces from various puzzles and trying to make one complete puzzle out of pieces from a dozen different puzzles. If you like the ideas that much, honor them by writing a fanfiction that other fans can enjoy. You need to bring some new twist to these ideas that will connect them and make them all your own or it will just look like a huge mized up puzzle.

Also, like we said last week, dont try to resubmit the question. Greg wont look at any ideas because doing so could come back to bite him in the form of a lawsuit somewhere down the road.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 8:15:57 pm EDT from 192.146.226.148

Daniel> I do not think you should try to resubmit your story concept to Ask Greg. I think the chances that he will read it are very slim if not non-existent. In addition to the reasons I mentioned before, I think Greg is very careful about reading any original ideas, where or not they are directly related to a project he is working on. As I said, if you have some more general questions about writing, you could submit those. But I would not try submitting the story idea again.

I have to agree with Asatira; your concept thus far sounds like nothing more than a mishmash of ideas from other works you like. It isn't even that we are looking at what you've got and saying "Oh, that sounds a lot like 'Gargoyles'" or "That's just like what happened in 'X-Men'" or whatever. Every time you talk about a new element in your story, you freely admit that you got the idea from something else. I honestly just don't see what you are bringing to these concepts that is new, fresh, and unique to you. I want to hear just one idea from you that doesn't come from a movie, TV show, comic, or something else you've seen before. Because just taking pieces from a bunch of stories you like and mixing them all together is not going to result in an original story, or a good one. I like steak, salad with ranch dressing, peanut butter cups, scrambled eggs, and ice cream, but if I threw them all into a blender and combined them, I wouldn't have the best meal I've ever tasted. I'd have a vomit inducing mess that I would want to put down the garbage disposal as soon as possible.

I think you should dump the idea of the soldiers being from the past. It's been done, a lot and I don't get the impression that you have a new spin on the idea that makes you excited about this aspect of your story. If you had said "I want them to be from the past so that I can explore a certain idea in a new way or so I can do a story where this particular new thing happens," I'd feel like the soldiers coming from the past was important to your story. But you said that you want the soldiers to be from the past so that you can have a character or series of characters like the Hunters. So you're essentially copying "Gargoyles" so that you can copy "Gargoyles" more.

Unless you have some really good and unique ideas for the Elisa-like character, I would dump her as well. If your soldiers aren't from the past, there's no need for such a character and even if they are, there's no rule that states that you need to have just one person - or any person - to teach the characters about the modern world. If the only ideas you have for her are that she will serve two of the same story purposes that Elisa does, I would cut her out.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 7:20:10 pm EDT from 146.115.115.33

Daniel> I think you're trying to pull too much from all these sources without taking the time to really think about what they would actually contribute to your work. By pulling all these ideas into the work, you are creating something that isn't yours and feels very derivative. What you need to do is boil things down to the basics, the core of it. If you can, try to sum up the core idea in one sentence. For example, Gargoyles can be summed up as, "A group of 10th century gargoyles awaken in modern day Manhattan and must now adjust to their new world while they come to protect it." It does not cover all the details, but it gets the core conflict and theme across.

Also, think about from which direction you want to come at it. To generalize, there are two ways to approach a story: action and character. Action oriented stories focus on events, action to action, and character isn't that important. Character driven stories (which I, IMO, think most of the good stuff tends to be) focus on how characters think and act, and that drives the story as much if not more as the external actions. Gargoyles was largely character driven, even in the early development. If you look at Greg's notes about the development, a large part of it was figuring out who would become Goliath, and then developing the rest of the clan and their nuances. In your story, I think you need to figure out why your rich guy, Xanatos parallel really would want these kinds of soldiers. Take time to develop the soldiers' personalities, how they would react to their new situation. And just as important, do some world building. What kind of world is this? How will this affect the Xanatos-parallel? How will this affect the soldiers, then how will the world react to them if at all? Do character sketches to flesh out how the characters will think and act as individuals, not as ripoffs of existing characters.
Asatira
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 4:19:18 pm EDT from 68.190.20.172

I need to get my keyboard fixed... or spellcheck... *sigh*

@ Daniel: Another thing: try not to grab outside influences that much - rather question if the devices you equip are necessary.

- is the girl necessary
- do the soldiers have to be from the past
- must there be a KKK-like group?
- must there be a serum to make them strong (or are they revived from the past because they are the strongest)?

etc.

If something of these is unnecessary, erase it. :)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 2:03:58 pm EDT from 84.191.240.125

@ Daniel: It could be considere this. If I tell you "DUDE, I got this damn wicked idea, and it is about this alien which looks pretty sexual in some ways, and almost like an insect/machine-inbreed thingy with a phallic something from his mouth, and I want to do this film about it, which is pretty much a sexual allegory." and you use that to make ALIEN out of it, I could sue you.

But even if you had the idea of ALIEN before I did tell you about it, I could sue you and get loads a bucks.

So, even if your idea is not GARGOYLES-oriented, Greg might have an idea in his head that is close to yours. So one way or another, telling him details about your story is presenting him your idea. He might ust have the same, and the moent he reads yours, even if his is different in some aspects, he can totally trash it.

So that is why. It's nothing personal or so, it's just that Greg has tons of ideas, and knows what can actually happen. I mean, back then somebody sued Disney cause he thought they stole his idea with GARGOYLES.

@ everybody else: How owuld you think

a.) season 1 would have been different if there wouldn't have been Elisa/a human character to introduce them to the modern wrld aside of Xanatos

b.) season 2 would have been if there wouldn't have been other clans/the Avalon clan and the Wyvern 6 were still the only ones alive?
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 2:00:37 pm EDT from 84.191.240.125

Well, i sort of thought about the Girl, well, as helping the Spartan Like Soldiers and being a love interest to the leader of the group, well i sort of thought that if they were from the past and somehow got frozen or something and revived to the present day (I took this idea from a 1990s movie about knights brought to the modern time as well as Gargoyles) they'll need someone to introduce them to the present day, but if it's too similar, tell me and i'll change it.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 1:55:35 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

yeah you're right. But why was my question removed, it's not an idea i gave Greg, I'm asking him for advice, should i rewrite the question or should i just forget it and ask you guys for help?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 1:50:19 pm EDT from 24.7.204.215

Daniel> The reason I said that it seemed like you weren't looking at why certain elements of "Gargoyles" work for that show is that you seem to keeping grabbing these ideas from "Gargoyles" and other existing fictions without really considering how or why they will work in your story, assuming that they will. Your Elisa-like character, for example. Elisa works in "Gargoyles" because the gargoyles are from another time and members of a different species which humans now believe to be myth. They need a human friend they can trust to teach them about the modern world and act as a go-between for them since they cannot interact directly with humans, preventing them from doing everything from obtaining information from a witness to a crime to going to the electronics store to buy a TV. She's also a cop, which makes her both an interesting, capable, and active character in her own right and an ideal model for the clan of how a modern protector acts. She is a love interest for Goliath, but that's only one of the reasons that she is an interesting character and part of what kept that aspect of her interesting was how long it took for Elisa and Goliath to realize and acknowledge their feelings for each other. When you explain the character who fills a similar spot in your story, you say that just added her "so she could be a love interest to the main character." That says to me that you really haven't thought about why Elisa works in "Gargoyles" and whether a character like that is going to work in the story you're creating. Do your super soldiers need a person to help them adjust to their situation as much as the gargoyles needed Elisa? Does your main character even need a love interest, now or ever? It may well be that romance is not on his radar and love interests are not a requirement for all kinds of stories.

You keep saying that you want this story to ultimately be its own, unique thing that is inspired by a number of sources, including "Gargoyles." But everything you've said about it is, by your own admission, a combination of elements from the fictions that inspire you. I just don't see much of your hand in here, or what you're going to bring to this project that is just you, not "Gargoyles" or "X-Men" or "Halo" or what have you. You describe your main character as "Goliath, Batman, And Rorschach, take some elements from them, add your own." Frankly, I have no idea what this means. It's not that I don't know the characters; I'm familiar with all three. What you're saying gives me no clues as to which aspects you are going to take from each of these characters, let alone what original elements you are going to add to him. Stop telling us who your characters are like and start explaining who they are.

I would advise that if you find yourself using a psuedonym when you're doing something like submitting your story concept to Ask Greg because you're worried about what Greg or anyone else might think of you if they found out it was you doing it, don't do it. This is probably your gut telling you that this is not a good idea. You should not be doing things that you don't want associated with you. Greg does check the Comment Room from time to time, so using a fake name is no guarantee that anyone won't realize that this "other person" is really you.
Demonskrye - [demonskrye(at)gmail(dot)com]
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 9:19:02 am EDT from 146.115.115.33

Demonskrye: "seeing this movie got me thinking: if you were tasked with writing up a treatment for a live-action "Gargoyles" movie, what would you do? What aspects would you focus on? What would you omit, add, or change? How would you make the film a satisfying experience on its own while leaving room for possible sequels?"

Hehey, I'm just doing this!! XD Be patient. ;) I still have 2 articles to hand in, attend 1 meeting reg. a new job and 2 screenplays to finish, BUT IF I HAVE TIME, I'll finish the treatment for this. :)
And I was joking about X being an Haitian Voodoo priest. :)
Brook
I agree with Rebel on EVERYTHING she says!!
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 7:20:08 am EDT from 84.191.240.125

(10th)Tenth! And away we go on with the show!
Vinnie - [tpeano29 at hotmail dot com]
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 3:15:20 am EDT from 69.54.209.20

9th
VickyUK - [Vickyfanofwwe at aol dot com]
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 1:44:08 am EDT from 194.129.65.79

Eighth.
Spen
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 1:35:24 am EDT from 66.43.205.110

7th.
Asatira
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 1:01:12 am EDT from 68.190.20.172

6th.

And I have to agree about the pitch. Trying to submit it to Greg, not a good idea.
KingCobra_582 - [KingCobra_582 at hotmail dot com]
Grr. Arg.
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 12:36:51 am EDT from 69.223.184.85

Fifth

Daniel > Not surprisingly, your question appears to have not been approved to be passed on to Greg. Because Greg doesnt take ideas (Gargoyles related, Spiderman related, or even original work), which is what we tried to tell you last week.

Also, the question you posted was not a very well written pitch. If you want, Ill post some pitching tips I have gotten in the morning.
Litwolf
<Be happy for me and for all who fly free.> - Tobias of Animorphs
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 12:25:52 am EDT from 209.243.38.9

Fourth.
Matt - [St Louis, Missouri, USA]
"I hide in plain sight. The demons do it all the time." - John Castaway, 'Estranged'
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 12:05:27 am EDT from 70.230.154.146

Not a Time Machine i don't really know how to work this out, maybe i should just abandon this from the past thing, i don't know, do you guys have any ideas?
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 12:03:01 am EDT from 24.7.204.215

And well if i can tell you something i plan to use something inspired by The Coyote Robots (But Also Spider Man's Spider Slayers as well), Sort of a robot built by the rich man, but he doesn't resemble the rich man or have the same voice like the Coyotes do. He resembles just this ordinary man, until i don't know, i'm thinking of like the Coyote to have a half human half robot face (But if any of you can come up with a better idea, please let me know) and well and like the Coyote Robots and the spider slayers, it gets destroyed but built again, each time getting more advanced and less human like, and that it too in the future will become it's own villain, but if anyone has a different idea, please let me know. As for the main character i summed it up like this, Goliath, Batman, And Rorschach, take some elements from them, add your own and then well there you have it, the leader of those Spartan-Like Soldiers.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 12:02:42 am EDT from 24.7.204.215

Well For My Thing the rich man is something in between Xanatos and Superman's Lex Luthor, He too doesn't want world domination but just to achieve some personal selfish goals, but on the other hand he is a real estate kind of guy and hopes to make money and fame out of selling neighborhoods, you know sort of like in the superman movie. He wants Super Soldiers, well like Why Xanatos wanted his own personal Gargoyles, to achieve goals that no one with the right mind would ever want to do for him, and couldn't do for him, and to test the ability of his company's resources, and technology.
As For The KKK/QM Group, well i sort of wanted it to be like the Quarrymen, this man who was once a different villian, became angry at the Spartan-like soldiers (Cause that's how'll i'll do it, using Halo Spartans) and vowed revenge, with the help of a secret organization or something, he severes all ties with the rest of his family, changes himself and founds this group, I Know, I Know, Sounds too much like Gargoyles and the birth of the Quarrymen, but i was very impressed by it that i sort of hoped to do my own take but try it in a different way, but if it is too much sounding like a rip off tell me and i'll change, if any of you have a better origin for this group, please let me know, I'll just tell you what's the basic thing, They're A Hate Group Targeting the Spartan-Like Soldiers, they were formed shortly after the world learned of the spartan-like soldiers existence (This Similarity i must keep because it's the only way i think would make sense for the group to form, and because i also hope to only introduce them later to the series), they will continue on to the future led by the founders descendants (Also I must Keep) and they have a special weapon (Like How The Quarrymen have their hammers.) And I personally think i could use this group because well, i always wanted to have my own KKK/QM like group, i even created one that targets Super Heroes (Based On Watchmen, The Incredibles, and Project Cadmus). That well i think they're essential to the plot to show the stupidity and ridiculousness of Hate, Racism, And all those ridiculous things. And For The From The Past Thing, well i just created that so i can make A Hunter-like Villain, Who many people assume the identity of and gets more advanced through the century including the Renaissance, i mean i just thought that's a cool concept but should i drop that too? Look i just want this to be not a Super hero Series, but rather something in the style of Gargoyles, but truly its own. Also The Elisa-like Character i just added so she could be a love interest to the main character, but maybe you're right, even though i sort of saw her as something in between Elisa And Lois Lane.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 12:02:23 am EDT from 24.7.204.215

And Yes i know i posted it, (I used a different name because i'm scared that Greg will think less of me if he knew it was me who did it, I don't want my reputation with him to be ruined, i know i'm a coward) But what do you mean i didn't take your advice, you didn't advise me to not write it to him, you just said you think he won't read it, from what i thought, you were telling me, you can try but i doubt it'll happen, so i'm sorry if i misunderstood you. Look, please help me, i'll listen to your advice and do anything, i'm sorry i just thought that you'll never know unless you try. So Please help me.
Daniel Abraham Raviv, - [dar111191 at gmail dot com]
Daniel Abraham Raviv,
posted @ Mon, May 11, 2009 12:01:46 am EDT from 24.7.204.215

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